>> there's nothing better than working out to jonathan lieu lemere. >> there you go. you heard that, folks. this show provides so many benefits including getting in better shape and no one looks better than the rev. we appreciate you being with us this morning. that is indeed the host of msnbc's politics nation reverend i walk into my meeting with mr. kennedy with an open mind. i have reached one conclusion. i can tell you this. he should -- he should fire his lawyer. the one that petitioned the fda to get rid of the polio vaccine. he should call him up. his lawyer, call his lawyer up and say look, man, stop dipping into your ketamine stash. polio vaccine has saved hundreds and hundreds of millions of lives in the world.

his lawyer didn't want to just study the vaccine. he wanted to get rid of the polio vaccine. and that's bone deep down to the marrow stupid. as far as i'm concerned. >> there you go. that's one way of putting it. republican senator john kennedy of louisiana criticizing a lawyer who works for rfk jr. who has asked the fda to revoke its approval of the polio vaccine. we'll have more from capitol hill on rfk jr. 's bid to become the leader of hhs. >> i have got to say though willie, it is fascinating and we talked about this before. that you are going to have senators, some of whom you may not expect, have different issues with different -- with different nominees. and with the margin so small, that can make all the difference in the world and it's going to be very interesting to see if rfk jr. is going to back off his autism

claim on -- autism and vaccines and he has not done that yet. there are a lot of people like -- senator kennedy that grew up in states, in the deep south, that saw just sort of just -- the extraordinary difference in southern states and poorer states, like a lot of them that i grew up in, that the difference that vaccines made over the years. >> yeah, we've seen some suggestive criticism of some of the nominees. that they have more questions and they look forward to the hearings. this yesterday from republican thom tillis was another one. republican of north carolina. just full throated criticism of robert f. kennedy jr. and it's pretty easy to do. he put it out there. saying the polio vaccine and he is on tape saying the polio vaccine has killed more people than polio itself. over the years. so that's on tape. so i don't know how he walks away from all the things that have become his life's work over the last couple of decades. >> you said that among other things. >> yeah. it's who he is.

it's been -- it's effectively why he's a prominent figure now is because of all this vaccine skepticism and the suggestion debunked by science that these vaccines are connected to autism. >> also -- sorry. also ahead, nbc's kirsten minsk joins us live from moscow in the latest in the bombing attack that killed a top russian general. plus the man charged could be headed soon to new york. the very latest developments in that case. and donald trump awake just few hours ago posting about one of his perceived political edgemis liz cheney. it comes as house republicans are calling for the former congresswoman to be investigated for her work on the january 6th committee. >> and jonathan, republicans in the house, are going to have a one vote majority. they are living in a bubble.

they're going to have to work with democrats. we're seeing that. we're going to be talking to hakeem jeffries today and they can pass mike johnson's bill only if democrats allow that to happen and you have these subcommittees coming out, talking about arresting political opponents. like -- recommending investigations into that. i mean, the margins are so bare in the house. and in the senate. these people are acting like they won by 20%, 25% and i will say even inside the people close to donald trump, they have been saying for weeks now, no retribution. he's not going to do retribution. we don't have time forretribution. this sort of talk early on, it's bad for everybody. it's bad for the house republicans and it's bad for donald trump.

it's bad for, you know, the markets. i mean, this is -- this is what we've been talking about retribution, blew back on democrats through the years. donald trump will probably be the first to say that he got elected in part because he was sitting at a criminal defendant's table this summer made him a martyr. you put liz cheney there, or you even talk about it, you even talk about it. and you put out these -- these stupid reports that this house subcommittee has put out. you are making her a martyr. you are making her bigger. you are making her more powerful. you are making her everything -- >> more important. >> that these people would not want to make her but they're doing it. they're playing right into her hands. >> in one of trump's truth social posts he claimed he lad the largest mandate in 29 years. that's obviously not true at

all. but also neither do republicans. as you say the house, it's about one vote. they're going to need democrats' help. this is not the way to get it and we're seeing here a familiar dynamic that we saw the first trump administration as well. where his team will put together a plan even occasionally trying to work across the aisle and work on immigration and try to get a deal done and trump himself gives into his worse impulses, of division or revenge or whatever it might be. and blows it up himself with some sort of tweet or truth social post or other irrational action. we're seeing that already now. he is going to come. he doesn't have a 129 year mandate but he's got a unifiedwashington. not going to happen if the focus is retribution. not incentivized to help him at all. >> you have got a one vote majority in the house.

you can see how close, mike, things hang in the senate. things are going to be much different on january 20th when we move out of the bubble where everybody is just looking at x and trump world. and they're thinking that's the reality. you look at the emerson poll that recently came out. you know, even tariffs against canada. wildly unpopular. >> state of canada. >> oh. >> wildly unpopular. and by the way, that's a great way to get canadians actually united together. you look at pardons for january 6th convicts. wildly unpopular. again, right now they're in this bubble. they won. and so all these republicans are running around acting like they had a mandate and they won by 1% point. they won wisconsin by less than 1% point and let me just say and i have -- said this

yesterday. everybody needs to take a deep breath. everybody needs to take a deep breath. because people are going to go oh, this is the age of elon ands this the age of the bro culture and america has darted so far right. let's take wisconsin. the bellwether state of bellwether states. kamala harris lost by less than 1% because of the bro culture right? wrong. they elected a lesbian woman as senator on the same day. the same thing with michigan. oh, the bro culture. no. they elected a woman senator. the same day. that kamala harris lost by 1.5 points. the woman who was running the

shortest presidential campaign in american history. right? so all i'm saying is here we are, everybody's overreading this. everybody's saying, you know, it's like -- sack cloth and ashes for democrats. oh, we've got to change everybody. whoa, this was the greatest defeat in the -- no. no. there's no sweeping change here. as far as what the american people said. it's like 1% and come january 20th, you start looking at policies. if they try to dart too far one direction, or the other, we're going to see what happened in the first term. democratic wins in 17, 18, 19 and 20. everybody needs to be very careful not to overread the 1% landslide. >> well, you are right about

all of that. i mean, the republicans in the house with the one vote majority. they have become tiktok tough talk party. that's all they do. they -- they say what they said yesterday about liz cheney. and hopes to get 30, 45 seconds on tiktok and, you know, shovel it out to their districts. >> what do they have to do today? they have to depend on a lot of democratic votes to even keep the government running. >> yeah, but there's another element to it and i would submit that it's around the president-elect. tweeting at 3:30 this morning whatever it was he tweeted. or texted. or what's -- >> truth social'd. sorry. correction. i don't want to be charged with anything. we overreact to him. we overreact to every excess,

every lie, every bizarre statement he makes. which is what he wants and what he's getting again. it's how he got elected in 2016. it's how he got re-elected the second time out in november. we re-- overreact to everything. i can tell you, just ordinary people, out there in the country when they hear this when they hear what he said, when he hear what is he say about it or other people say about it and millions of people write about it in the papers. you know what they do? they tape their eyelids open in order to stay awake. they're so sick of it. >> right. right. >> but we continue to do it. >> and eddie, talk about the danger of democrats' overreacting to a 1% landslide. and again, i talked about wisconsin. i just want to keep going back. because everybody's overreading this as some radical swing to

the far right. where in wisconsin, kamala harris lost by less than 1% and the wisconsin voters re-elected a lesbian democratic senator. doesn't sound like this sweeping lunge to the far, far right to me. >> we begin to need to think more carefully about the split ticket voting that happened across the country not only with regards to senatorial campaigns but also the abortion and the ballot initiatives as well. we need to kind of unpack that and not draw conclusions and lead to abandoning the base and the like and the other thing. but the interesting point that you are making that we need to emphasize and underline is that we don't need to overreach or overreact but also understand the damage that can be done by these folks while they're in office. so they will overreach. they will do what they do. and we don't need to overreact.

but we need to be mindful of the damage that they can do. >> and cover it. also with us this morning, columnist and associate editor for the "washington post" david ignatius who will be perfect as we cover our top story this morning. go ahead. >> i want to get david's take on this. russian officials say man has been arrested in connection to yesterday's assassination of a top general. according to russia's investigative committee, the suspect is a uzbekistan national in his 20s and was promised $100,000 in european residence as payment for detonating a bomb in moscow. and killing the head of russia's nuclear biological and chemical defense forces. ukraine's security force already claimed responsibility yesterday for the death of the general and joining us live now from the site of the bombing in moscow. nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons.

what can you tell us. >> reporter: it's pretty extraordinary. this is where the lieutenant general was assassinated just over 24 hours ago. you can see the damage outside the door of his apartment block. the metal twisted. the bricks blown off. and flowers left. as you mentioned, willie, there's now a bombing suspect. the russian media is naming him as akmed cabanal. detained outside moscow and russian media is showing a video of him apparently confessing although of course, that was filmed according to russian media by the russian authorities and we only have the russian authorities' testimony that he has indeed confessed to what happened here. standing here, you can see what

a precise operation honestly this was. because he would have walked out of this apartment and then you can see in the video of the explosion, that his car was parked out in the -- in the street just here. so a very short sidewalk is the -- time they had to set off this explosive. the video of the assassination was a film from the back of car and looks like that car was parked somewhere where that red vehicle is across the street there. actually a window smashed in the building across the street. again, a testimony to the kind of power of this explosion and according to russian investigators, and this now has been the description both from the russian side and from

sources on the ukrainian side, explosives were put attached in some way to a scooter that was lent against the wall here and then detonated as this senior russian general walked out. the russians are saying that they are working to catch those responsible. that they have already caught this particular man. this 29-year-old. what isn't being said here by many openly is how did an assassination like this take place in southeast moscow? you know, we are miles from the kremlin. how was that -- that possible? but that is a real question. we haven't heard yet from president putin, he's due to give -- the hold his annual question and answer session here in moscow tomorrow. i suspect we'll hear from him then. >> ukrainian security services showing their reach there. extraordinary and nbc's keir simmons reporting for us from

moscow. thank you so much. david ignatius, what does this tell you about the ability of ukraine to go deep now into moscow? there have been questions about the limitations of the weapons they can use offensively az cross the border and there have been some restrictions put by the united states and others on those. but what does this tell you? this incident, this death, apparent killing of this general. >> willie, i think it's a significant escalation in the tactics that the ukrainians have used. their intelligence services have been able to operate outside ukraine's borders. to conduct operations inside russia as far away as africa and in syria. but this targeted assassination and more the fact that the day before the bomb exploded, the russian internal security service -- excuse me, the ukrainian security service called the sbu identified the general, the target, as somebody who bore

responsibility for chemical weapons attacks in ukraine. that was his -- his area. he was controlling chemical biological radiological weapons. so they named the person and then the next day, the person is dead. and the sbu the ukrainian intelligence agency, specifically took credit for that attack. no ambiguity at all. we did it. here's footage to show that we did it which they gave to news media in kyiv. this is the first attack like this in moscow i'm aware of since a notorious attack in 2022 that killed the daughter of a prominent pro war russian writer. her name was daria daguna and she was killed similarly by a car bomb in moscow that was intended for her father and killed her instead. the u.s. warned the intelligence agencies in ukraine don't do this. we have evidence that you did it. don't do it. and for the white house, this

kind of operation is consistently been a worry. they view it as escalatory and provocative. what the white house and its remaining few weeks will do to try to restrain ukrainian operations is hard to say. but the russians are certain to respond to this aggressively. >> well, and david, of course the talk of truce, conversations of a ceasefire, of course have been going around in washington and across europe. this obviously seems to be a setback. are we looking at the ukrainians trying to prove they have reach all the way into moscow with the highest echelons of russia's power structure and maybe to try to get a better deal at the negotiating table? eventually? >> joe, i think everything at this stage is about at least in part about trying to again, leverage for the negotiations that everybody knows are coming. president-elect trump makes that clear in every statement

he makes about ukraine. so the ukrainians want to add another chip on their side of the table. interestingly, the russian response yesterday was to accuse ukraine of trying to prolong the war with this operation. interesting way that they choose to denounce the ukrainians. the trump white house is going to have the same problem that the biden white house has which is restraining the ukrainian intelligence agencies is no easy task. that's fallen to jake sullivan national security advisor. not easy for him. will not be easy for his successor mike wallets. still ahead on "morning joe" a closer look at president biden's priorities for his remaining days in office. national security advisor jake sullivan will join us at the table to weigh in on that as well as the ongoing efforts to security a ceasefire and hostage release deal in gaza. you are watching "morning joe."

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is even higher. subject 4: in this family, we won't stop until no child dies from cancer. subject 2: this holiday season, join our st. jude family. we need you. please donate now. welcome back. national security advisor jake sullivan has returned from the middle east after stops in israel, qatar and egypt. jake comes as the biden administration continues to push for a ceasefire and hostage release deal in gaza. to that end, official bret mcbeginning stayed behind in the region to continue working on a possible deal.

joining us now white house national security advisor jake sullivan on the set with us. good to have you. >> thanks for having me. >> what can you tell us about efforts toward any type of deal? >> well, mika as you know we've been close before. and we've expressed optimism and we've gotten close to the finish line and we have not gotten over the finish line. we're wary about making predictions or promises but this is close. and with -- enough pushing from the outside mediators, and the commitment of israel and hamas, we can get it done. i was in israel as you said just a few days ago. i sat with prime minister benjamin netanyahu, and prime minister benjamin netanyahu made clear at this moment, israel is ready to do this deal. so -- the final piece of the puzzle from my perspective is for hamas ultimately to come forward with a commitment on the release of hostages in that first phase of the multiphase deal. if we can get that done, we can have a ceasefire and we can get hostages home and we can get a surge of humanitarian assistance into gaza.

>> david ignatius with us in washington and has a question for you. >> jake, i want to just take you a little further into the negotiations to get this hostage release. by asking what is the blockage that's still holding up this deal? it seemed close i said a few days ago. and how are you going to break through the remaining blockage and that are leverage points with hamas which sounds like the principal remaining stumbling blocks? >> david, it's a great question. i think there are two ways to look at the obstacles to getting across the finish line. one of the details and the other is the big picture. on the details, they are working through the names of hostages who had come out in the first phase. the names of the prisoners who'd be released as part of the exchange. and then some specific details about the disposition of israeli forces during the ceasefire. so small details, but those can be worked out. the big picture question is, is hamas prepared to just finally say yes? let's do it. i think we've reached that

point with israel. and the question is, can we reach that point with hamas and i think the entire world, including the mediators, egypt and qatar, need to call upon hamas to finally say yes and do this deal. >> so jake, what is acceptable to israel from hamas? what is hamas asking for the prime minister of the israelis said okay i guess we can live with that if it brings our hostages home. as you know better than anyone at the table and than anybody in the world. negotiating is a terrorist group is not something you do lightly because you don't know what they'll do next. >> as you know the deal is set out in full million phases. if first phase is about making sure that we can get out certain key groups of hostages. the remaining women, the elderly, and the wounded and sick. so the real question right now is, is hamas prepared to have that full group of people, all of those who are women, elderly and wounded and sick, come out and until they confirm they are

prepared to do that, we remain in this position where we're close to the finish line but not over it. and you are totally right. you cannot trust a terrorist group like hamas but we did a deal last year that got 78 hostages out. hamas made a commitment and we verified that commitment and then every day, ten hostages came out and ultimately we got 78. so it is possible to do this. >> what is hamas asking for? as part of this deal. and exchange for releasing the hostages that as a state, what are they asking for that the prime minister has said we're open to that? >> so the first phase of the deal includes an exchange of hamas prisoner or palestinian prisoners for hostages coming out. and it includes a substantial surge in humanitarian assistance into gaza. hundreds and hundreds of trucks every day. and that's not because the united states or anyone else is trying to hold those back. it's because if you have a ceasefire in place, if there's calm in gaza, it is that much easier to move very large

quantities of humanitarian assistance around because you are not moving it around in a war zone. so those are kinds of things that the people of gaza stand ready to benefit from in this deal if hamas would say yes. >> you know jake, with the chaos throughout the middle east with the war against hezbollah, very effective war against hezbollah with syria falling, it seems that the dire humanitarian situation in gaza has sort of fallen to the back pages. talk about how extreme the suffering is right now. how absolutely extreme the suffering is for the people of gaza. >> well, first, joe, too many people, too many innocent people have died in gaza as a result of the military activity there since october 7th. so you have civilian casualties in addition to the very large number of militant casualties of hamas including the killing of very top -- >> i'm talking the famine and children -- that's what i'm talking about. i'm not talking about hamas.

>> so there's -- there's the death of innocent civilians and then for those living in gaza, there's acute suffering and they're going through hell. they are having a hard time accessing a sufficient amount of food, water, sanitation, medical care. and part of that is because in any war zone, it is difficult to get that stuff to people who are caught in the crossfire. in this particular case, it is especially difficult because of the nature of gaza. it's an area people can't leave. usually civilians can leave war zones, here egypt not going to let them leave. they're not going to go into israel. so the unique and acute nature of the suffering here is something that we do not see. it is -- unusual. >> is israel doing everything it can do -- to allow humanitarian assistance to go in for children, for people suffering from famine? to get the sort of medical their that these people are not getting right now? is israel doing enough? >> at many points over the course of the past year, plus

now, we have said israel has to do more. and when i was just in israel a few days ago, i kept pressing that. i said yes, more is getting in. yet more has to get in. and we went through details in a way i don't think really any national security advisor ever has. what are the crossings? how many trucks? what's on the trucks? how do we maintain security along the route so those trucks aren't looted? things that get down to the minute details because those details can be the difference between someone getting to eat and not getting to eat. i believe we have made progress in the last month. but progress is not enough. we need to get to a point where everybody is getting the life- saving sustenance they need. >> turn to syria. after the stunningly swift fall of assad, real question is what comes next? fear is that syria could be a launching ground for terrorism again and fears that the new government could backslide into a taliban-esque situation. what is your read on this rebel

group. can they be -- be trusted and can they be governed with? >> first just to recognize the leader of this group was originally part of al qaeda in iraq. then he was part of isis. then he broke with both of those two groups and today, he speaks about an inclusive tolerant syria that will respect the rights of minority communities. including christians and people who are not from the dominant muslim faith that he comes from. but as president biden said, we need to see words translated into deeds. there is an enormous opportunity now that the butcher assad is gone. for syria build a better future as you said there are huge risks. the single biggest risk i see is that asis comes back. isis wants to take advantage of any vacuum or instability in syria following a civil war. and so the u.s. has to be laser focused on suppressing the threat of isis. president biden ordered the bombing of isis personnel and isis facilities within hours of assad falling. and we're going to stay on top

of that. but i will not sugarcoat it. this is a real threat. the threat of jihadism and terrorism returning in syria. because of what's happened. and it's incumbent upon us and everyone in the region to push back hard on that. >> wow. >> jake, to joe's point on gaza. we're -- over 400 days that they've been holding hostages. gaza has been destroyed the entire strip destroyed. what is the level of frustration like within the biden administration over the conduct of the israeli military operation? the way they waged war in gaza and are still waging war. the conduct of the israeli government in terms of the hostages cooperating to get hostage release. what's the level of frustration with the current administration in israel and has it been damaged beyond repair? >> so i think we have to step back and look at the context. hamas launched this massacre on october 7th. then it retreated not to

military facilities, or to the open field of battle to meet the israeli defense forces and it retreated to schools and mosques and to hundreds of miles of tunnels under densely populated civilian civilian areas. deal with the enemy that doesn't give a whit about civilians in gaza. civilian palestinians. but that doesn't lessen israel's responsibility to minimize civilian harm. and to maximize the flow of humanitarian assistance and we have said over the course of the past 14 months, that israel should do more in both of those areas. i believe it's an american commandment and jewish commandment that every innocent life has value and we have stressed that to the israeli government over time. and when we have had our concerns, we've expressed those privately and occasionally we have laid them out publicly. now on my most recent trip i felt like with respect to the hostage deal especially. the israeli government is prepared to do this deal. i believe that. i think there have been points

in time where they have focused on details and kind of pressed the point of various aspects of the deal. now they want to see it done. and the real question is, is hamas prepared to step up and do it? >> before we let you go, jake, let's talk about ukraine. in a month and duodays, the trump administration -- two days, the trump administration will take over for you all. there has been skepticism to put it mildly in some corners of the maga world about america asports from ukraine. should we be spending all this money to support ukraine? some sympathy expressed for vladimir putin in some quarters. what is your level of concern as you sit here this morning about what happens to ukraine on january 21st? >> well, listening to some of the rhetoric that's come from to other side with respect to ukraine, does leave me concerned that the united states or anyone else would try to impose a solution on the people of ukraine and i think that would be wrong. but i hold on to the hope that the incoming president cares about making good deals.

not bad deals. and that he and his team will recognize that to have a just peace in ukraine, a fair negotiation, you need leverage. and to have leverage, means you need to keep supporting ukraine and you can't pull the rug out from under them. will they do that? i don't know. but i hope that that logic as part of the concept of making a good diplomatic deal to end this war, does take hold in the trump administration. that's certainly what we are communicating and i will say we have had good coordination with the incoming team for a smooth transition. especially in light of what's happening in both ukraine and in the middle east. it's important that no one in the world see significant daylight between the two administrations. especially our enemies that they would try to take advantage of and my successor congressman mike also made the same point. >> david ignatius. >> one more question from me about the killing of the very senior russian general in moscow.

general kirillof. the sbu, the ukrainian intelligence service claimed credit for this assassination operation. done with a bomb on a scooter in the middle of moscow. do you think operations like that are appropriate? what's the united states' view? >> david, i learned about it the same way you did. from the public. i noted as you did earlier in the program that it was unusual that actually the ukrainians came out quite explicitly and i can be honest with you. we do support and enable ukraine to defend itself and to take the fight to russian forces on the battlefield. but not operations like this. >> so you -- you would discourage future operations like this in moscow. by the ukrainians. >> from the united states' perspective, assassination operations far from the battlefield, in a capital city. not something that's part of american military doctrine. what we want to do is see ukraine have the tools it needs

to take the fight to the russians who are attacking them and also russian proxies who are part of the fight now. continue to do that to flow arms to them in massive quantities and in fact president biden ordered a surge in the closing weeks of his administration which i am working with secretary austin at the pentagon, so that the ukrainians have in their hands a stockpile of munitions to be able to continue this fight. and that putin and right should make no mistake. ukraine is going to be there on the battlefield to hold the line against their onslaught. >> what's the best read that you and the administration have on russia's future plans in syria? do you expected them to evacuate completely. >> it's interesting joe. just take a step back and you look at what's happened to both russia and iran, they have gotten a huge black eye out of syria. they were supposed to back their guy assad, keep him in power, and now russia and iran are both on the run. why? it's because they both have

been weakened and distracted by events elsewhere. iran, weakened by the -- military campaign that israel waged against hezbollah and directly against iran with the backing of the united states. russia, weakened and distracted by the fact that the ukrainians are putting up a very tough fight against them. so now they've lost their main proxy in the middle east and they may lose their military bases. they're already being moved out of the airfield. and the question of whether they sustain a naval presence in the eastern mediterranean is in doubt. as things stand today, as we hand off to the next administration, our friends, our allies, are in a stronger position and our enemies are weaker and this is not a bad thing though it does bring risks as we talked act before. >> the next administration, especially the nominees that are within your sphere of national security. can you talk about -- the dangers or the impact of someone in positions like dod or dni, and others, where

either the qualifications are lacking or there's even potentially outside influence? >> so i have been very careful not to comment on the nominations of the incoming president. so you put it more in the ab tract. disappointed a lot of people by being very boring on the subject. all i can say is president biden. people like lloyd austin, a long career and deep expertise in military affairs. people like avril haines our director of national intelligence. a person of integrity and capability. that's what we did. i'll let other people speak about the trump administration. any job is to make sure that i'm managing an effective transition and a smooth passing of the baton and for that reason, i think wading into commentary on this issue probably doesn't help me be able to do that. >> white house national security advisor jake sullivan. thank you very much. we really appreciate your

coming in. >> thank you so much, jake. tomorrow -- on "morning joe," we'll speak with secretary of state antony blinken. jake, good to have you. the "washington post" david ignatius, thank you as well and coming up, we'll take a closer look at donald trump's support along the southern border. and how it might play into the president-elect's immigration policy. and nbc's morgan radford joins us with her new reporting on that. also ahead, we'll tell you what police in wisconsin are now saying about a potential motive in the shooting at a private school in madison this week. plus, the man arrested in connection with the killing of unitedhealthcare's ceo has been officially indicted by a grand jury in new york. we'll go over the charges. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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welcome back. police say a combination of factors may be behind the possible motive in a deadly shooting at a wisconsin christian school. the associated press says the madison police chief did not offer any details about a motive or why a teenage girl opened fire on her school on monday. but said bullying at abundant life christian school would be investigated. police are investigating writings that may have been left by the shooter and could shed some light on her actions that left two dead and six people injured including two students who remain in critical

condition. the shooter died of self- inflicted gunshot. hundreds gathered last night to mourn those lost in the incident, holding candle light vigil and a prayer service next door to the school. >> still waiting to learn how she got the gun in the first place. meanwhile in man arrested for the killing of unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson has been indicted by a grand jury in new york. luigi mangione now facing charges of first degree murder and murder in the second degree as a crime of terrorism. if convicted, he could face a sentence of life in prison without parole. >> this was a frightening, well planned, targeted murder. that was intended to cause shock and attention and intimidation. it incurred in one of the most bustling parts of our city. threaten the safety of local residents and tourists alike. commuters and business people, just starting out on their day. >> 26-year-old alleged shooter is currently being held in a state prison in pennsylvania

where he was arrested last week. there he faces charges for carrying a firearm without a license and providing false identification to law enforcement when he was caught in that mcdonald's. he has a court hearing scheduled tomorrow morning. we don't know yet when he'll be taken in new york but a source tells nbc news mangione plans to waive extradition. meanwhile nbc news has learned the mother of the suspect spoke to police a day before his arrest. saying her son could be the person of interest that they were searching for. mother also had reported mangione missing filing a report with the san francisco police department back in november almost a month before the deadly shooting. >> so just over one month until inauguration day -- president-elect donald trump promising mass deportations on day one. well, at the same time suggesting he would work with democrats on a plan for dreamers those who arrived here illegally as children. so what does it all mean? for undocumented family members.

let's bring in nbc news correspondent and co-anchor of nbc news daily morgan radford just back from a trip to the texas mexico border where 14 out of 18 counties voted for trump in the 2024 election. with some flipping republican for the first time in decades. morgan, what was the mood like there? >> it's interesting, there's a lot of conflicting messages. but there's also a lot of open questions. the border is where we see a lot of these policies come to life and come to life very quickly and in fact many there are sort of holding their collective breaths. saying they were scared before, but they are terrified now. but still a surprising number of migrants support the president-elect even some of those who are currently in deportation proceedings. take a look. >> i will launch the largest deportation program in american history. >> for millions of americans, immigration rhetoric. >> you better start packing now. [ cheering and applause ] >> could soon become a reality. including right here in texas.

home to an estimated 1.6 million unauthorized immigrants and 18 border counties with majority or near majority latino populations. 14 of which voted for president- elect donald trump this year. here in hidalgo county on the texas and mexico border, voters had not elected a republican for president since 1972. that is, until now. you voted for trump? >> yes. >> if in fact there are mass deportations, does that worry you? >> i think even though he made that particular political statement, it was just to kind of -- you know, those votes for him to get elected. >> not actually what trump is going to do? >> not going to happen. >> good morning love. >> local immigration attorneys say their phones are ringing off the hook. >> believe it or not. a lot of people that are here undocumented support president trump. and we have not -- we have never seen that in that way. individuals that are even in

deportation proceedings say that they agree with him in certain ways and it's pretty shocking. >> your clients have told you this. >> yes. absolutely. yes. absolutely. >> why? >> they believe that he is good for business. so to them, it seems easy that if they're removed somehow, that they simply come back in. but at the end of the day what matters is that money is coming into the family and into their businesses. >> but others here say day one of trump means day one of terror. >> people have a lot of anxiety and fear of what's to come. >> joaquin garcia worked with lupe a south texas nonprofit that also provides legal services to undocumented people. one of several organizations across the country, now holding information sessions in case of deportation. >> power of attorney for your kids. have money saved. because of -- you are facing deportation and your bills are still going to have to get paid and birth certificate of the country of origin and evidence that you have been paying

taxes. and evidence that you have been living here in the.u.s. >> the idea is that someone in the house knows where the forms are and where to get them and find them on day one. >> on day one. >> a scenario that's very real for people like maria what who has lived here in the united states for 18 years. >> [ speaking in a non-english language ] >> now they're more than scared. they are terrorized. maria declined to share her last name or show her face out of fear of deportation. she pays $40 a month for access to legal and other services through lupe. >> [ speaking in a non-english language ] for you and your family. what would be the worst case scenario in these moments? >> [ speaking in a non-english language ] >> it would be torture for you because you already have to be here -- it would be like repeating the cycle. >> [ speaking in a non-english language ] the reason for her

tears? >> she tells us although her two daughters were born here, she and her husband are both undocumented. making them exactly the kind of mixed status family the president-elect has been talking about. >> i don't want to be breaking up families. so the only way you don't break up the family is you keep them together. and you have to send them all back. >> [ speaking in a non-english language ] was there this much fear before president trump? >> [ speaking in a non-english language ] >> you are saying you know, before in the previous administration, things were okay. but now especially -- president trump, we're talking about president trump, you were saying he doesn't like us. that he thinks we're, you know, dirty. he is discriminating against us because of the color of our

skin and he doesn't want us here. >> [ speaking in a non-english language ] what do you want for yourself and for your daughters' lives? >> [ speaking in a non-english language ] >> you just want to be together. you are not even looking for luxury. you know how to live off of a little you just want to be together. >> they just want to be together. i think it's really worth noting here that many people in these boarder counties, they have -- border counties, they have family who remember the last mass deportation campaign in the mid 1950s under president eisenhower. over a million people with mexican last names and mexican descent were rounded up and sent to mexico even though many of them came here legally between moments with the two countries and many of whom were actually american citizens. a lot of them have strong memories more recently of the obama administration which saw more deportations than any other president in u.s. history. >> right. that's for sure. so -- have we ever seen this

type of choice before? economy versus legality. >> that's a great question. and in short, no. light? the immigration attorney said this was different before. now people are saying look, you know, as long as money is flowing into my pocket even if i get deported i can sneak back across the border illegally and the messaging around fear is working but they say the messaging around the economy specifically from the trump team is even songer. >> it's remarkable as you look at the maps of -- you know, of all the things i saw on election night, and after election night, the border counties. i mean, which used to all be blue. >> not anymore. joe. >> not anymore. i mean, they have been shifting more red. but this -- this time, it's remarkable. what did you say? 14 out of 18 counties there voted for donald trump. >> joe, what's fascinating is that it really surprised me the depths of that stronghold. for example, it was wild that i

heard people say steven miller's name. right? which is like casualty interviewing people on the street and the fact that steven miller's name came up where he promised to turbo charge the denaturalization process. some of the attorneys said that some people are choosing not to even go through the naturalization process because they're afraid that it will make them a target. so the fear is really something new and different. but this -- this choke hold over this question of economy and what freedom comes with the economy, they think is even stronger than the freedom that comes with legality. >> eddie. >> morgan, what happens when we move from the abstract question of, you know, the border, immigration, illegality, undocumented, to the actual human toll? i mean, we -- you had this amazing moment with that interaction with the young woman who was undocumented and her family. what happens when we move from the abstraction to the actual effect of this policy? >> we see this all the time.

in immigrant communities. we see this with mexican americans on boarder and with cuban americans in miami. this sort of distance between the policy and the lived effect. i think what will really measure that is if we actually see prices go down to pre- pandemic levels. when people see the income and what happens and how they take care odd putting food on their table, then i think we will see if that trade-off was really worth it in a day-to-day tactical practical sense. >> morgan's excellent piece lays out perfectly what the trump administration is going to bump up against. if you are going to go in and get criminals. somebody who committed murder. go ahead. have at it. that's what they're saying they're going to do. but when the reality of going and knocking on maria's door and pulling her and her children out of this country and pushing them out, that's getting a little more difficult and it's easy to -- at the rally in the summer of 2024.

more difficult when you have to prove it. >> morgan, isn't it interesting if you listen to what donald trump has said, if you listen to what homan said. if you listen to what other people around the trump team have said. they're saying we're not going to send military vehicles and we're not going to tear out people that are living here peacefully. it does seem phase one at least, they are talking about the hardened criminals and in fact pushback on doing more than that. >> many people say that is a red herring. saying that we are coming against criminals is a red herring because one, we have seen it before. they actually used military tactics to take people with mexican last names and drop them off in mexico in 1955. one we've seen this before. number two, this notion of deporting criminals, any immigration attorney will tell you, the actual statistics of someone who is a criminal who

has gone through naturalization proceedings is -- miniscule. i mean, it's -- it takes so many resources to even find those criminals. we don't even have the resources in place to find those people the 0.001% as one immigration attorney put it of criminals who have gone through the press. it's a bit of a red herring to say we're only deporting the criminals but the messaging has worked. hey they're not coming for me. they're not coming for my brother but they're coming for the criminals. mi amor. i don't know if the criminals are going to be so easily found. >> and you bring up a -- bigger point and a more important point. jonathan, one that we've talked about before. how expensive it is to do this. and the idea that you are going to sweep up, you know, people are saying oh, we want you to get 10 million or 11 million illegal immigrants out. no. it's -- it's -- we saw barack obama deported more over eight years than donald trump did

over four. because it's -- in the immortal words of george w. bush, it's hard. it's hard. i mean, and it costs a ton of money. >> the numbers you are talking aboutment it's almost -- unfathomable the idea of the resources, the manpower they would need to do this. the political will and capital especially when there are already states and local jurisdictions saying they won't cooperate. >> nbc's morgan radford. thank you. that was extremely compelling. and we look forward to your ongoing coverage on this. still ahead, house minority leader hakeem jeffries will join the conversation after lawmakers reached a bipartisan deal to avert a major government shutdown. plus a look at some of the most memorable and impactful images captured by "new york times'" photographers this year. "morning joe" will be right back. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50.

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one tradition a lot of people are ready to shake up is the holiday meal evidently with many people saying this year

they want burgers instead of turkey. yeah. that's true. that according to noted sociographic analyst clarence t. gobblesome. they want pizza and 38% said tacos and 34% said chinese takeout. yes. that 34% also celebrates christmas by watching a movie and then lighting hanukkah candles. americans also want to dress differently this year. 47% would prefer to spend the whole day in their pajamas rather than getting dressed up. oh, yeah. [ cheering and applause ] okay. i just want to point it you want to stay in what you slept in avoid your family while eating tacos and pizza. that's not christmas. that's not christmas. that's clinical depression. [ laughter ] >> president-elect trump is celebrating christmas at mar-a- lago. yeah. and this was nice today. he hung up his kids' stockings and it was cute. could we see a photo? ivanka and thing one and thing

two. always forgets thing one's name. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, december 18th. jonathan lemire and mike still with us and joining the conversation we have the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation. reverend al sharpton is with us and national affairs analyst and a partner and chief columnist at puck jon kylman joins us this morning. >> willie, the yankees proving that they are in it to win it. even without juan soto. >> you know, i love juan soto. i would love to have him on the team. but it may be the best thing that ever happened to us, he went to the mets at least a silver lining, freed up $760 million. this was a trade to the -- for the chicago cubs and we picked up cody bellinger. an excellent player. you move judge back to right

field. a left arm in max freed from the braves and still have some money to play with at first base. christian walker is on the list. pete alonzo maybe coming across town in a swap for juan soto. again, love him but this has freed us up to do a lot of things. >> the yankees are a much better team today because of the moves that brian cashman made. >> the red sox. >> the red vox are on the move, joe. they're on the move. >> you are looking at anybody? >> we're looking at walker. we're looking at a couple of other pitchers. we're looking at right-handed bats and te-oscar hernandez from taylor ward from the free agent. they're going to be okay. they're going to be okay. they will be in the playoffs. >> all right. >> rev, are you going to be okay? your early morning routine is going to be changed forever now. >> dramatically. i mean, i used to get on the

elliptical and watch jonathan lemire. >> right. >> for 20 minutes and then if i was on "morning joe" i'd rush out and get a shower and come back. if i wasn't on i could do the whole routine. now i have to readjust to ali who i love. but i have got to shift now to lemire now taking his role at "morning joe." i have got -- i have got to try to work this out. >> the benefits -- really unending. [ laughter ] look at this. better motivation for workouts. >> proven. >> along the way. >> help get me in shape. >> you will be good. >> i'm so excited. >> she'll be great. okay, to work. the "new york times" has anew piece on president biden as he is a little over a month away from leaving office. it's titled "a weary bidden heads for the quit" in his final exit." a sprint to the finish line as chief of staff jeff signs puts

it. the biggest box left is a ceasefire in gaza. and if he manages that, it would be a validating triumph for a departing president. otherwise, he is wrapping up his time in office by claiming credit for the healthy economy that he has turned over to his ungrateful successor and by getting money previously approved by congress out the door for roads and bridges and at home and arms for ukraine abroad. >> and so jonathan, of course this -- this gaza ceasefire has haunted him for some time. i mean, it has been front of mind now for a year. do they think -- just talked to jake, sounds like they're optimistic and they may get it by the very end. >> they're hopeful but as jake told us a short time ago they've been close before. and have seen it fall apart. but there's no question president biden for more than a year now, deeply frustrated by this situation in gaza. at times very frustrated with

prime minister benjamin netanyahu. not believing all the time that he was a good faith partner and trying to get a deal trying to get a ceasefire and those hostages home. believing the war was a political albatross for him as well. a real obstacle to the re- election campaign even before the disastrous debate there in atlanta. but the fallout he believes impacted the vice president's chances as well. it's interesting, biden has kept a pretty low profile here. you know, in these final weeks. he is an stationallist and he does believe in not wanting to criticize the incoming administration and he's made his feelings about donald trump clear in the past. but he is largely working behind the scenes trying to get this deal done with the tow other events to try to shape his legacy and trump proof his accomplishments before the successor comes along. >> jonathan helloman. when you look at presidents that leave with lower approval ratings, whether it's george bush, you go back historically to harry truman, a lot of times they have economic problems and a lot of other things that are

going in different directions. said it before five years from now people are going to be looking back most likely at the numbers that the numbers that joe biden has and they're going to go wow, okay, what was that all about? it's sort of like george h.w. bush, we found out a couple of years later that actually the economy started growing again in the fourth quarter. but with biden, you have actually two or three years of really good economic numbers. you have -- you have bipartisan legislation did a better job on that than any other president in the 21st century. it is interesting right now, he is leaving that picture head down, sort of -- sort of slowly heading for the exits. not saying a whole lot. i'm wondering though, what that legacy looks like in five years. >> well, i don't know, joe. i think, you know, history will be the lead of that story -- will be looking back on his time in office, will be, you know, that he was the person

who beat donald trump in 2020. and helped to end the pandemic. and there will also be a very right -- that double barrel lead also will be he was essentially forced off the ticket in his own party late in the presidential election here a pretty extraordinary thing. i don't think that good economic numbers or anything else will obscure how singular and how central that will be to his legacy and there are still -- you know, democrats who think he should never have left the ticket. there are still democrats who are -- think he should have never run at all at his age and that will be fiercely debated if a long time. i will say that he is morlings ceded the stage to donald trump in this period. he went on the foreign trip recently where i believe i saw reporting that said he said exactly seven words to the traveling press while he was out of the country for almost

two weeks. it's kind of amazing. george bush left office in 2008. with a lower approval rating than joe biden has. now his approval rating was in the 20s but he was still out there trying to kind of shapehis legacy. right now it's been kind ofamazing the degree to which he said not only one president that the institutionalists would say there's one president at a time. he's still president but really for a lot of people it's felt like donald trump has been president since election day. >> rahm emanuel has a now op-ed for the "washington post." he is currently the ambassador to japan. and was former white house chief of staff for president obama and before that, mayor of chicago and chair of the dccc. he writes in part this -- campaigns of joy in an era of rage don't win elections. the democratic party has been blind to the rising sea of

disillusionment in today's america, aspiration and ambition have been supplanted by anger and animosity. talk about missing the moment. this ground swell of resentment had been simmering for years. trump just seized on it. our language and priorities have reinforced the aloof elite stereotype, trump on the other hand captured the underlying scythe gist. we can no longer tiptoe around the issues that have people worried. november was a jarring reminder that misjudging the mood of a nation can be catastrophic. if democrats are to make the most of the next election, they must ready their message and messengers, abandon failed orthodoxies and embrace strategies with a record of delivering seats, success, and real prosperity. joe? >> so rahm talked about several things that he thinks caused

democrats problems and more importantly, just -- mistrust of elites and he talked about those who launched the iraq war. that are now on corporate boards and didn't pay for any of their tragic misdeeds. talked about what happened to the banks on -- yeah, after the crash of 2008. that the banks just got rich. the rich got richer. and it was the poor that ended up or the middle class ended up -- in trouble. and same thing with the pandemic shutting down schools and businesses for too long. what -- what do you think about rahm's diagnosis and what ails the democrats. >> i agree in part. i think i would not say jarring because let's remember the democrats only lost by less than2%. we keep acting like there was landslide against the democrats. that's in the true. i think that he was right.

more emphasis and more projection on the pain that people are feeling, they would have edged that 1.5% and won the election. and they could have identified that a lot of the reason you are hurting is the guy that succeeded barack obama and joe biden. who did nothing about some of the issues that you are talking about. in fact, coddled some of the people that benefited and never paid in terms of the economy collapsing when it did under the last days of george bush and i think that joe biden had a lot that he could show that was not being pushed out. i think those that were trying to say he's too late get out was putting out the accomplishments. joe biden really stabilized the economy. he was the most consequential civil rights president in my lifetime. i mean, here's a guy that put -- just even now during what we call the quiet times, put the 30th black woman on the federal bench. in georgia. he's put more blacks on the

bench than any president. he's been -- he put a black woman as vice president. a black woman in the supreme court. and more black federal judges. i mean, but they were not talking about that. they were talking about identity politics that didn't matter rather than what did matter so i think rahm is right. there should have been more emphasis on what they did and more targeting of what donald trump would not do and did not do as president. >> so john, you are out in the country talking to democrats. in washington. outside of washington. just going off rahm emanuel's piece here, not just saying this about him but it seems like everybody is an armchair expert now about what ails the democratic party and what happens next here. if there is one is there a consensus about what needs to change within the party to sort of embrace the antiestablishment feeling that's clearly out there in the country? >> willie, there's a number of things. i mean there's definitely a camp of democrats who don't

think -- who are comforted by how close the election was who look at the fact that as you guys were talking about earlier, in the earlier hour, you know, that kamala harris was within -- [ no audio ] >> do you guys hear john? >> we lost his audio. >> that's my favorite john appearance right there. [ laughter ] >> we'll get him back. but rev, what's your sense -- i mean you were obviously so connected to the democratic base and progressives as well. what is the feeling now as people were you know, we're a month and a half on from election day and people kind of picked themselves up and dusted themselves off as we said and we can't say it enough. donald trump won a plurality. this was not a landslide. despite what he likes to say. but clearly some things need to change for democrats. so what is being done even now to move in that direction? >> i think that we'll see in the race for who will be dnc

chair. the direction of the party. are we going to talk to the pain of people? because people are really suffering. we cannot in any way gloss over that. even though we can say the blame should not have been where it was. they were recovering from some of the pain. but still, address the pain. and in terms of people that are blue collar workers, people that are in -- rural areas, as well as people of color have that common pain without knowing that each other is sharing that pain and rather than playing them in pockets we need to bring them together and say yes, we're hurt shotgun this guy -- hurting and this guy coming in needs to be resisted not to be congratulated. donald trump did in many ways identified and touched into that pain. even though he helped to cause lot of it when he was there for four years. he's going to cause more. putting all these billionaires in this cabinet is not going to solve the problem. but we're not talking about

that. the people that are hurting you in app appalachia and in harlem are the ones he's putting on the cabinet. >> rev, you know, we've talked earlier that trump camp is sending signals that maybe they're willing to deal on this or that. but we have seen in the past donald trump himself usually blows that up. but if there a good faith effort here to try to get a few things done even if it's around the edges, should democrats take that opportunity or should it just be pure resistance? to ref's point there's a lot of uncertainty and anger out in the country but a lot of eyes on washington too. >> hakeem jeffries is going to be on. >> i didn't know you were addressing me. yeah. they should cooperate. to get something done that's positive. they should not cooperate if it's the usual republican stuff that the republicans are talking about. for instance, what were they talking about yesterday? that we reported on today. you know, indicting liz cheney

for something. the coverage of this thing of the end of the biden presidency, is really interesting to me. it's like going to a baseball game and you watch the game and you drive home and you say that was a good game. you get home and you realize, boy that was a great game and what's happened here in the coverage of the end of the biden presidency is it's dominated by his age. every story that's written describes his age. his shuffle. his stutters. he didn't say anything. and age takes precedence over the accomplishments of the biden administration. >> which are historic. >> they certainly are historic. and they certainly are a huge positive for american paychecks. >> all of a sudden it becametaboo to talk about them. >> never up at 3:30 in the morning talking about tweets in age. >> he has not said anything and

trump has dominated thheadlines. the print media goes right to him. met nata? if he sneezes it's the front page of every newspaper with trump. but at the end of the day, joe biden is an institutionalist. he has enormous respect for the office of the presidency. he's not going to be vying with donald trump in the closing days. >> we have the soup cans of the string reconnected to john helloman. john, you were saying? >> hopefully. >> well, i was saying i think willie, there's you know, a temptation on the part -- you guys hopefully can hear me. to look at how close the race was and point out that harris became close and you know, as we were pointing out in the first hour you know. the three blue wall states she didn't get wiped out. very close election and democrats did reasonably well at the -- at the house level and won bunch of the battleground states at the

senate level. there's some top democrats that basically a way to say hey we don't need to do root -- kind of root and branch reform of the party. and i think there's a large number of other people in the party who think hold on a second. you know, not just in this election. but now stretching back and this is something that rev was just talking about, stretching back now 20, almost 30 years. democrats have ceased to be the party of the working person in america. think of the historically the party was: started with weakness with white working class voters and now with latino working class voters and increasingly with working class black men and that's not a position that allows for the democratic party to be the majority party and america. we still have a country willie where you know, 60% of the country is not college- educated. and if you are not able to compete for working class votes, you cannot be a majority party and i think a lot of democrats when they think about what has to happen now, figuring that out and also figuring out this thing that

rahm was talking about, which is the party has become the party for a lot of people of the establishment. of the institutions. and of the rich to some extent that the fact that it's become the party of college-educated voters also means more affluent voters. the trump administration offers some opportunities to again to the point that rev made for democrats to get their mojo back in the populous lane. in the reform lane. try to make these arguments abs what you are seeing -- about what you are seeing or about to see in the trump administration going forward in terms of almost a pay for play element where itlooks like kind of a give away to the plutocrats. it's a thing that officer some opportunities for -- offers opportunities for democrats on both fronts. the reform and the working class champion of the working class identity that they want to get back to front. >> john, thank you very much for coming on this morning. it's time now for a look at some of other stories making heads leans. now 26 detainees at

guantanamo bay after the pentagon returned two more prisoners yesterday to the malaysian government. the men had been held by the united states for more than 20 years. they had admitted to working for the al qaeda affiliate that killed hundreds of people in a hotel bombing in 2002. another prisoner was released to the custody of kenya a day earlier. honda and nissan are exploring a new partnership combined the two companies manufacture more than 7 million vehicles per year. a merger could create a new autogiant. capable of competing with bigger rivals like toyota and volkswagen and general motors. and first lady jill biden is stepping down from her teaching job at northern virginia community college. dr. biden who holds four degrees, made history as the only first lady to keep her day job while serving in the white

house. before the 2020 election, dr. biden posted a message to social media, reading in part quote -- teaching is not what i do. the it is who i am. still ahead on "morning joe" we're taking a look back at some of the most memorable images of 2024. "new york times'" photography editor jeffrey henson skills joins us with a snapshot of thepaper's annual year end pictures. "morning joe" will be right back. gummy vitamins from nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. hey, grab more delectables. you know, that lickable cat treat? de-lick-able delectables? yes, just hurry. hmm. it must be delicious. delectables lickable treat.

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welcome back. 2024 had no shortage of memorable moments and lasting images and now the "new york times" is out with its annual year in pictures project. showcasing some of the most quintessential images throughout the year from harris and trump supporters reacting to the election results to the devastating consequences of the wars in the middle east andukraine. jeffrey henson scales also co editor of the year in review undertaking. we have eight to show. a lot more this weekend. how do you choose these? are they measure of the historic moment we are in or

how would you describe this compilation. >> every year we go through close to 400,000 pictures. >> good lord. yeah, how dao you has. >> it's a combination of -- beautiful photographic aesthetics and news moments. and news events. so it's always a balance of those two things. you know. photographic artistry. >> go through some of those but first mike let's show -- this is the preview. are we allowed to show this yet? >> just the cover. >> sunday's news today. >> you got 40 some in there. many, many more online posted today. let's start with the election. and the first one we have this morning is of trump supporters. what are we seeing in this image here? >> oh my gosh. >> this is an image by photographer mark peterson it was shot for the opinion section of the "times." and it was -- trump supporters on election night in west palm beach i believe. and, you know, it's a -- captures a lot of the mood of the maga and the trump supporters. you know. i thought it was a really beautiful image that really

captured that vibe. >> and the young -- young men that -- helped propel him to the white house. on the other side of things we've got a beautiful shot of harris supporters as well. what do we see here. >> this is a photograph by damon winter who is one of our staff photographers who also shoots for opinion but this is in washington. they're waiting for kamala to doher concession speech the day after and you know, really captured quite the moment there i thought. >> a beautiful image. so much this year obviously happening in the world too jeffrey. particularly in gaza. the war with israel there. what do we see in this photograph? >> this is a picture by a palestinian photographer that did lot of our coverage out of gaza last year. and this is a series called "out of gaza" of children -- well, not children. all children, but people that were injured and were getting

treatment in qatar. and it's a very powerful image of this young child on this, you know, one of those little -- motorized cars who had a leg amputated. >> oh. let's move to syria. and this next photo, is simply entitled syria rubble. term us about it. >> this is by a photographer nicole tongue and it was shot just last week and it's -- i think it's a really powerful image. and with the birds flying over the rubble of the damage to the assad regime had done to this particular community. and this -- kind of metaphoric to me for lack of a -- the birds flying as hopeful in, you know, a new government, you know, no guarantees there. but it's hopeful. >> let's turn to our next picture. focused on ukraine. i believe. >> yes. >> this -- tell us about this one. >> this is one of the howitzer

artillery stations in ukraine. it's by our staff photographer tyler hicks. >> oh my gosh. >> who is an amazing conflict photographer. >> yeah. >> and he's been in ukraine, you know, for long, long time. and just the energy and that moment of the explosion of the cannon going off. you know. and it was really powerful and the sun coming through. just very powerful dramatic aimage. >> beautiful composition on that. let's end on a happier note away from war. the reopening of notre dame. >> yes. this was during the setup. this was the rehearsals for the opening. and it was dmitry kostolva. just captures france and the you know the beautiful notre dame with the lights coming it from behind it and the you know, the river which i assume is the seine river. >> jeffrey, how many people sit around the table of the "times"

and judge these pictures and come down to what you got and regard to be the best? >> me and my co editor named tanner curtis who i have worked with on this for the last probably three years. i have been doing this actually for about 15 or 16. and then we also review them probably once every two weeks with the director of photography megan luram. >> what you decide that goes in like this one here -- just incredible. >> yeah. i mean, that -- we knew that was going to be in the day we saw it. and then, you know, we added the whole sequence where you actually see the bullet going by his head. but yeah, that -- you know, the day i saw that, back when that happened, i knew that was going to feature large. >> yeah. >> let's take a look at the next one. soldier with american flag and actually i want to read the quote from the photographer

here. this was a reverent moment. the family is about to participate in a funeral. they have been waiting years for. it was a somber experience and good to know the man getting the respect he needed. i wanted to get as close as i possibly could to show the contrast between the hands and the flag. alyssa pointer. what can you say about the photo. >> it's beautiful seemingly simple image but very direct. nice change of scale and this was a -- a soldier a black soldier, that was killed in 1941 i believe. by a white military police officer and his family has been waiting actually probably decades for this official funeral. and it was a very powerful moment i thought. >> and just to get a sense of the range of the photos that you will be showing, in the sunday edition, the last one is from allentown, pennsylvania. [ laughter ] tell us what we're seeing. >> well, we're seeing members

of the valley elite all-stars. a cheerleading -- a competitive cheerleading group. >> yeah. >> and i remember seeing this when it came out and i just thought it was really fun, exciting. the composition. even the way the -- the cheerleader at top is just cut off. but her hands really fill that space. and it's -- it's just really fun and that's one of the things that we have to do every year. is balance the fun, the joy, with the hard news that we have to face. >> you have done that again in the "new york times." annual year in pictures project online now. photography editor jeffrey henson scales. thank you so much for sharing it with us. >> thanks for having me. >> good to have you on. >> willie and mike. >> all right. coming up, lawmakers appear to have a deal on a short-term spending bill as government funding is set to expire on friday. house minority leader hakeem jeffries will join us to

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we worked really hard too achieve consensus on a bill that responsibly funds the government until march 14 next year. >> i think it's garbage. this is what washington, d.c. has done. s this why i ran for congress to try to stop this and sadly, this is happening again. >> welcome to the house of representatives. >> house speaker mike johnson and republican congressman eric burleson of missouri yesterday. discussing the short-term government funding package.

the bill which congressional leaders released last night includes over $100 billion of disaster relief funds. funding to rebuild baltimore's francis scott key bridge after its march collapse. economic assistance for farmers and cost of living adjustments otherwise known as pay raises for lawmakers. the legislation will need to be passed by friday evening to avoid a government shutdown. let's bring in house minority leader hakeem jeffries democratic congressman of new york. great to have you on this morning. >> leader jeffries, thank you so much for being with us. this is -- i will say this sounds all too familiar from when i was there. republicans would get angry when their speaker had to deal with democrats. but effectively, despite all of the -- all of the sound and fury, there's going to be one vote margin next year. democrats and republicans are going to have to work together. or nothing is going to get

done, is it? >> good morning joe, that's the reality of the situation that the republicans are going to confront. not withstanding all of the hype about some massive mandate. the house of representatives is effectively tied. it's an evenly divided house of representatives. that's going to get even narrower in the next congress and so what the american people really want us to do is work together to solve problems for hard working taxpayers and make their life better. and also be there for them when the federal government has to step in in the context of disaster assistance, as an example, and be there for the people of florida or georgia or north carolina who, as a result of the extreme weather events, have had their life upended. >> so i'm curious. what are some issues that you see that are -- that possible for democrats and republicans to work together on? do you think you can get a

deal, for instance, on immigration? >> i think we have a broken immigration system. and we need to try to fix it in a bipartisan and comprehensive manner and certainly we have to secure the border. there was a bipartisan agreement that was on the table that was a strongly conservative leaning border security bill as it relates to making sure we address the situation, particularly on the southern border. that republicans rejected at the direction of donald trump. because at least while joe biden has been president, many republicans don't want to solve the border security challenge. they wanted to weaponize it politically and hopefully we can come together and deal with that issue in the next congress but the onus will be on other side of the aisle to act in good faith. >> what -- what would a deal like that look like? you had donald trump talking about possibly fix for dreamers when he was interviewed on "meet the press."

is there a possibility of a really tough border bill? that maybe limits the deportations to hardened criminals? but also has a part inside that bill that helps dreamers get a pathway to citizenship? >> i certainly think we have to make sure that there is a robust pathway to citizenship for dreamers. people who have been in their country throughout their entire lives with the exception of perhaps the first few years after birth. and have contributed to communities in so many different ways and there's bipartisan support for dealing with the dreamers in a -- compassionate and, you know, sensible, common sense fashion. we also need to make sure that we modernize our immigration system as it relates to farm workers who are critical part of the ecosystem in the country that makes sure that we meet the food and nutritional needs of the american people.

this bipartisan support for that and certainly we have to fix our asylum system which is broken and make sure that to the extent that there are going to be deportations, we prioritize violent felons, not breaking up families that include american citizens or legal permanent residents. >> leader jeffries, good morning. i know you are probably hearing from people in your district, that democrats are concerned about what may be coming starting on january 20th under the new trump administration. because donald trump has the white house. because republicans control the house and the senate. we try to remind people that in the house, it's a one vote majority right now that donald trump won by a point and a half plurality of votes. doesn't mean he's not capable and doesn't have a lot of power to do things that may be offensive to a lot of people but what are you saying to those voters who are in some ways panicked about what the next four or perhaps the next two years are like? if you are able to take back

the house. >> well, house democrats we're going to work hard to make sure that we find bipartisan common ground to get things done for the american people. and do that with the incoming administration as best we can while at the same period of time, ensuring that we are protecting the things that matter and protecting social security, protecting medicare, protecting medicaid and protecting the affordable care act. protecting the progress that we've made in terms of combating the climate crisis. we see a rise of extreme weather events. and certainly protecting the woman's freedom to make her own reproductive health care decisions and i would remind people when donald trump became president, the last time around, and took office in january of 2017, his margin in the house of representatives was 241 republicans and only 194 democrats. it's going to be an evenly divided house of representatives and will be in a strong position to stop bad things from happening. with those big margins, he

still couldn't repeal the affordable care act. now we find ourselves in a strengthened position in advance of the 2026 midterms. >> well, you mentioned reproductive freedom and a lot of women are in a very, very difficult position in terms of life-saving abortion health care now. and i'm -- curious, leader, if there's any room that you believe to -- there is to work with on this issue. i'm hearing that there might be. it may not be what we want. but what in the next congress can be done at least to lift some of these bans and to have a more palatable situation for women who need life-saving abortion health care? >> well, in the most recent national defense authorization act, we were very clear as house democrats there should be no partisan right wing policy changes undermining the ability of military families to secure reproductive health care. we were successful in that regard. and a continuing resolution

that's going to be before the congress this week, we also have ensured that there were no efforts to further erode a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive health care decisions and we're going to hold the line at the federal level and hold the incoming president to his promise that there will be no national abortion ban. >> leader jeffries, let me ask you a question and you and i have known each other long time. you have been a member of the national action network and i have known you since you were a lawyer. you have had ability to try and represent in a passionate way but also reach out and try to work towards solutions. isn't the challenge that you have and that speaker johnson had, to be able to deliver for what your constituents went nationally but at the same time not let extremists on either side of the aisle sort of dictate the conversation and

dictate what's going on in terms of public -- of the public debate with a president that plays to the cameras? i mean, how -- do you and johnson balance out what you may be able to get through legislatively but you have donald trump who might be up 3:00 in the morning torpedoing all that you are trying to achieve? >> well, rev, good morning, great to be with you. i think that the american people want congress to exercise common sense. to find common ground. and deliver for the common good. and just make lives better for hard working american taxpayers. and if we center our activity with that focus in mind, then we should be able to get things done and as i said, we're prepared to work with the incoming administration wherever and whenever possible in order to deliver real results. >> leader jeffries, want to ask

you about doge the musk and ramaswamy effort to cut significantly government spending and they have identified a trillion dollars they say. to reach that kind of number there's speculation they could target social security and medicaid and medicare. what cold you as democrats in the minority though very small minority try to do to stop them. >> under the leadership of former speaker nancy pelosi when she was leader, in the aftermath of the re-election of george bush, republicans tried to privatize social security and sparked uproar all across the country. and they were in the minority at the time. what's clear is that public sentiment is on the side of making sure that the earned benefit program of social security and medicare which are not entitlements. they are earned benefits, remain intact. so that everyday americans can retire with the grace and dignity that they deserve. that's a fight we will embrace if the republicans take it to

us. they should not be focused on massive tax cuts for the wealthy and the well off and the well connected. we should all be foe coursed on making life better for working class americans. and that includes protecting and strengthening social security under the leadership of john larson i'm confident that is something that we can do of course partnering with richie neil as the lead democrat in the ways and means committee. >> leader jeffries, from the tenor and the tone and content of this conversation that we're having with you, and the -- with the republicans having a one vote majority, it sounds as if every vote is going to be like abuzzer-beater. the end of a basketball game. and we assume, maybe mistakenly, that the democrats are all aligned under your leadership to vote en masse for whatever you want. but what's the reality on the democratic side of the aisle? what are your issues that you worry about? >> well, southwesternly have a big tent on our big side of the aisle and there may be a

variety of different perspectives on any issue. our view is that we should always talk with it and have authentic unfiltered conversations private conversations being better than those who break into the public domain. have enthusiastic discussions amongst ourselves but then always find the highest common denominator that we can unify beyond -- behind in order to make life better for the american people. and that's the way that we've conducted ourselves throughout this congress. that's the way that we will conduct ourselves in the next congress. >> also, leader jeffries, you have a book out new book entitled "the abcs of democracy." tell us about it and also how it information your day to -- informs your day-to-day work. >> it's an illustrated book for people of all ages that captures what i believe are the american values, the ideals and the institutions, that have made this country the greatest democracy in the history of the world. yes, it's a turbulent time. but it's important to remember that elections come and

elections go. presidents come and presidents go. but at the end of the day, there are a set of values that should guide us in order to continue our country's march toward a more perfect union that includes always placing working families over the well connected. >> house minority leader hakeem jeffries of new york. thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. thank you. >> thank you. >> always good to see you. up next, we'll take a look at the stories making front page headlines across the country. including new concerns about the future of a breakfast staple. >> what? >> what? >> oh boy. >> "morning joe" is back in a moment. >> we're not doing anything with the egg mcmuffin are they? >> frosted flakes? >> stop it.

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time now for the look at the morning papers and we begin in florida where the palm beach post reporting state officials are implementing a plan to address homelessness in the county. the housing first policy will provide homeless individuals with small houses in industrial and commercial areas as well as support services. officials say similar policies have been adopted by other communities across the u.s. and abroad. in maine the portland press herald has a front page feature on the expansion of a school translation software. used to help teachers communicate with nonenglish speaking students and parents. the software allows teachers to write messages in english and

they are then translated into the parent's preferred language and delivered by email and text. the program was invented by a portland science teacher in 2021 and now being used in 40 maine school districts and nine states. and finally, in massachusetts the "boston globe" has a front page feature on aging farmers in new england. who produce maple syrup. the industry is seeing fewer young people willing to take over the business. according to census data, over 40% of new hampshire farmers are over the age of 65 while only 7% are under the age of 35. >> mike, what are we going to do about that? i mean, what am i going to put on the bacon if i don't have maple syrup? >> what am i going to do about my kids? i have been farming maple syrup now for over 50 years. i prefer to make documentaries dad. what am i going to do with the holes in the trees? >> kids. >> that i put in. >> taps. >> we did that as a family.

>> everybody driving by when i'm doing it in the spring saying look. the sap is running again. >> all right. stupid conversation. still ahead, donald trump was -- up at 3:00 a.m. posting online about liz cheney. as house republicans float a possible investigation of her work with the january 6th committee. we'll be back with that in two minutes. i used to leak urine when i coughed, laughed or exercised. i couldn't even enjoy playing with my kids. i leaked too. i just assumed it was normal.

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>> i walk into my meeting with mr. kennedy with an open mind. i can tell you this. i haven't reach one conclusion. he should fire his lawyer, the one that petitioned the fda to get rid of the polio vaccine. he should call him up, his lawyer, and say look, man, stop dipping into your ketamine stash. the polio vaccine has saved

hundreds and hundreds of millions of lives in the world. his lawyer didn't want to study the vaccine, he wanted to get rid of the polio vaccine. that is bone deep down to the marrow stupid as far as i'm concerned. >> that is one way of putting it. republican senator john kennedy of louisiana criticizing a lawyer who works for rfk junior who has asked the fda to revoke its approval of the polio vaccine. we will have more from capitol hill on rfk junior's bid to become the leader of hhs. >> i got to say, it is fascinating. we talked about this before, you are going to have senators, some of whom you may not expect, who have different issues with different nominees. and with a margin so small, that can make all the difference in the world. and it is going to be very interesting to see if rfk junior is going to back off his

autism claim on autism and vaccines. he has not done that yet, and there are a lot of people, like senator kennedy, that grew up in states, in the deep south, that saw just the extraordinary difference in southern states and poorer states. a lot of them that i grew up in that the difference that vaccines made over the years. >> yeah, we have seen some suggested criticism of some of the nominees, that they have more questions, they look forward to the hearings. this yesterday from republicans. thom tillis was another one, republican in north carolina, just full throated criticism of robert f kennedy junior. and it's pretty easy to do. he put it out there, he is saying the polio vaccine, he is on tape saying the polio vaccine has killed more people than polio itself over the years. that is on tape. so i don't know how he walked away from all the things that have become his life's work over the past

couple of decades. >> yeah, he said that among other things. >> yeah, it is effectively why he is a prominent figure now, because of all the vaccine skepticism and the suggestion debunked by science that these vaccines are connected autism. >> also ahead, nbc's kier simmons joins us live from moscow in the latest in the bombing attack that killed a top russian general. plus, the man charged in the murder of the ceo of united healthcare could soon be headed to new york. will have the latest development in that case. and donald trump a few hours ago posting about one of his perceived political enemies, liz cheney. it comes as house republicans are calling for the former congresswoman to be investigated for her work on the january 6th committee. >> and republicans in the house are going to have a one-vote majority. they are living in a bubble.

they are going to have to work with democrats, and they are going to be able to pass mike johnson's bill only if democrats allow that to happen, and you have these subcommittees coming out, talking about arresting political opponents. recommending investigations into that. i mean, the margins are so bare in the house and in the senate, these people are acting like they won by 20, 25 percentage points. and i will say, even inside, the people close to donald trump have been saying for weeks now no retribution, he is not going to do retribution, we don't have time for retribution. i mean, this sort of talk early on, it's bad for everybody. it's bad for the house republicans. it's bad for donald trump. it's bad for the markets. this is what we've been talking

about. retribution blueback on democrats through the years. donald trump will probably be the first to say that he got elected, in part, because he was sitting at a criminal defendant's table this summer and it made him a martyr. you put liz cheney there or you even talk about it, you even talk about it and you put out these stupid reports that this house subcommittee has put out. you are making her a martyr. you are making her bigger. you are making her more powerful. you are making her everything. that these people would not want to make her. but they are doing it, they are playing right into her hands. >> and one of trumps overnight trip social post, he claimed he had the largest mandate in 129

years. that is obviously not true at all. he won by less than two points. also, neither do republicans. margin in the senate, relatively slim. and as you say, the house is about one-vote. many democrats help. this is not the way to get it. we are seeing a familiar dynamic that we saw on the first trump administration as well, where his team will put together a plan, even occasionally try to work on immigration, try to get a deal done, and trump himself gives into his worst impulses, his impulses of division or revenge or whatever it might be, and blows it up himself with some sort of tweet or trip social post or other irrational action. we are seeing that already now, where he is going to come. he does not have a 129 your mandate, but he has a unified washington. there is an ability to get things done that he wanted the beginning of his term. it's not going to happen if the focus is retribution, if the focus is revenge on political enemies, which would certainly alienate them across and not incentivize us to help them at all. >> and it's very simple, you got a one-vote majority in the house, you see how close things hang in the senate. i do think that things are going to be much different on

january 20th when we move out of a bubble where everyone is just looking at trump world and thinking that is the reality. you look at the emberson pole that recently came out, you know, even tariffs against canada, wildly unpopular. >> the state of canada. >> wildly unpopular. and by the way, that is a great way to get canadians actually united together. you look at pardons for january 6th convicts, wildly unpopular. again, right now they are in this bubble. they won. so all of these republicans are running around acting like they had a mandate, they won by one percentage point. they won wisconsin by less than one percentage point.

let me just say, and i had something to say about this yesterday. everybody needs to take a deep breath. everybody needs to take a deep breath. because people are going oh, this is the age of elon. this is the age of the borough culture. oh, america is so far right. let's take wisconsin. the bellwether state of bellwether states. kamala harris lost by less than one percentage point because of the culture, right? wrong. they elected a lesbian woman as senator on the same day. the same thing with michigan. oh, the culture. no. they elect a woman senator the same day. that kamala harris lost by 1.5 points. the woman who was running the shortest presidential campaign in american history.

so all i'm saying is here we are , everybody is over reading this. everybody is saying it is like sackcloth and ashes for democrats. oh, we've got to change everything. this was the greatest defeat in the history, no. there is no sweeping change here. as far as what the american people said. the second one percentage point, and come january 20th, you come looking at policies, if they try to dart too far one direction or the other, we are going to see what happened in the first term. democratic wins in 17, 18, 19, and 20. everybody needs to be very careful not to over read the 1% landslide.

>> will you are right about all of that. i mean, the republicans in the house are the one-vote majority. they have become the tiktok party. that's all they do. they say what they said yesterday about liz cheney and hopes to get 30 or 45 second on tiktok and shovel it out to their districts. >> and what they have to do today? they have to depend on a lot of democratic votes to even keep the government running. >> yeah, but there's another element to it, and i would submit that it is around the president-elect. tweeting at 3:30 this morning, whatever it was he tweeted or texted. correction. >> i want be charged with anything. >> we overreact to him. we overreact to every excess, every lie, every bizarre statement he makes, which is what he wants and what he is getting, again, it's how he got elected in 2016.

it's how he got re-elected the second time-out in november. we overreact to everything. i can tell you, just ordinary people out there in the country when they hear this, when you hear what he said, when he hears what we say about it or other people say about it and millions of people were right about it in the papers, they take their eyelids open in order to stay awake, they are so sick of it. but we continue to do it. and you talk about the danger of democrats overreacting to a 1% landslide. and again, i talk about wisconsin, i just want to keep going back, because everybody is over reading this as some radical swing to the far right. we are in wisconsin. kamala harris lost by less than one percentage point. and the wisconsin voters re- elect did a lesbian democratic

senator. it does not sound like this sweeping lunge to the far right to me. >> i think you are absolutely right in that regards, joe. and i think we need to begin to think more carefully about the split ticket voting that happened across the country, not only with regards to senatorial campaigns, but also with regards to the abortion initiatives on the ballot, as well. we need to unpack that and not draw these conclusions that lead to abandoning the base and the like and the other things. but i think the interesting point you are making that i think we need to emphasize and underline is that we don't need to overreach or overreact, we also need to understand the damage that can be done by these folks while they are in office. so they will overreach, they will do what they do. and we don't need overreact, but we need to be mindful. of the damage that they can do. >> and cover it. also with us this morning, and associate editor for the washington post, david

ignatius, who will be perfect as we cover our top story this morning. >> yeah, i want to get david's take on this. russian officials say a man has been arrested in connection to yesterday's assassination of a top general. according to russia's investigative committee, the suspect is a use pakistan national in his 20s, was promised $100,000 and european residents as payment for detonating a bomb in moscow and killing the head of russia's nuclear biological and chemical defense forces. ukraine's security service already had claimed responsibility yesterday for the death of the general. joining us now live from the site of the bombing in moscow, nbc news chief international correspondent cure simmons. what more can you tell us? >> it's pretty extraordinary to be standing here, honestly. this is where lieutenant general igor kirillov was assassinated

just over 24 hours ago. you can see the damage outside the door of his apartment block, the metal twisted, the rigs blown off, and flowers left. as you mentioned, willie, there is now a bombing suspect. the russian media is naming his 29 years old, as you say, detained outside moscow. and russian media is showing a video of him apparently confessing, although, of course, that was filmed according to russian media by the russian authorities , and we only have the russian authorities testimony that he has, indeed, confessed to what happened here. standing here you can see what a precise operation, honestly, this was. because kirillov would have walked out of this apartment and then you could see in the video of the explosion that his car was parked out in the street just

here. so a very short sidewalk is the time they had to set off this explosive. the video of the assassination was a film from the back of the car. it looks like that car was parked somewhere where the red vehicle is across the street. there's actually a window smashed in the building across the street, again, a testimony to the kind of power of this explosion. and according to russian investigators and this now has been the description, both from the russian side and from sources on the ukrainian side, explosives were put, attached in some way to a scooter that was leaned against the wall here and then detonated as this senior russian general

walked out. the russians are saying they are working to catch those responsible, that they have already caught this particular man, this 29-year- old. what is not being said here by many openly is how to an assassination like this take place in southeast moscow? we are miles from the kremlin. how is that possible? but that is a real question. we have not heard yet from resident putin. he is due to hold his annual question-and-answer session here in moscow tomorrow. i suspect we will hear from him then. >> ukrainian services showing the reach. nbc reporting for us from moscow. thanks so much. david ignatius emma what is this tell you about the ability of ukraine to go deep into moscow? there've been limitations for

so long about the kind of weapons they were going to be able to use offensively across the border. there've been restrictions but by the united states and others on those. but what does this tell you, this incident, this apparent killing of this general? >> i think it is a significant escalation in the tactics the ukrainians have used. their intelligence services have been able to operate outside of ukraine's borders to conduct operations inside russia, as far away as africa and syria. but this targeted assassination , and more the fact that the day before the bomb exploded, the russian internal security service, excuse me, the ukrainian internal security service identified general kirillov , the target, as someone who bore responsibility for chemical weapons attacks in ukraine. that was his area, he was controlling chemical, biological, radiological weapons. so they name the person, and the next day the person is dead

and ukrainian intelligence agency specifically took credit for that attack, no ambiguity at all. we did it, here's footage to show that we did it. which they gave to news media. this is the first attack like this in moscow i am aware of since a notorious attack in 2022 that killed the daughter of a prominent pro-war russian writer. she was killed similarly by a car bomb in moscow, believed intended for her father. it just happened to hit the daughter. the u.s. then, i'm told, confirmed warned of the intelligence agencies in ukraine don't do this. we have evidence that you did it, don't do it. and for the white house, this kind of operation has consistently been a worry. they view it as escort tory, provocative. what the white house in his remaining few weeks will do to try to restrain ukrainian

operations is hard to say, but the russians are certain to respond to this aggressively. >> and david, of course, the talk of truth conversations of a cease-fire, of course, have been going around in washington and across europe. this obviously seems to be a setback. are we looking at the ukrainians trying to prove they have reach all the way into moscow in the highest echelons of russia's power structure? maybe try to get a better deal at the negotiating table eventually? >> i think everything at this stage is, at least in part, about trying to gain leverage for the negotiations that everybody knows are coming. president-elect trump makes that clear and every statement he makes about ukraine, so the ukrainians want to add another chip on their side of the table. interestingly, the russian response yesterday was to

accuse ukraine of trying to prolong the war with this operation. interesting way that they choose to denounce the ukrainians. the trump white house is going to have the same problem that the biden white house has, which is restraining the ukrainian intelligence agencies is no easy task. that has fallen to jake sullivan, national security advisor. not easy for him, will not be easy for his successor, mike waltz. >> all right, still ahead on morning joe we are going to take a closer look at president biden's priorities for his remaining days in office. national security advisor jake sullivan will join us at the table to weigh in on that, as well as the ongoing efforts to secure a cease-fire. an hostage release deal in gaza. you are watching morning joe, we are back in just 90 seconds. delectable

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( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. welcome back. national security advisor jake sullivan has returned from the middle east after stop in israel, qatar, and egypt. it comes as the biden administration continues to push for a cease-fire and hostage release deal in gaza. to that end, official brett mcgurk stayed behind in the region to continue working on a possible deal. joining me know, national security advisor jake sullivan onset with us. thanks for having you. >> what can you tell us about efforts towards any kind of deal? >> as you know, we have

enclosed before and we have expressed optimism, we got close to the finish line and we have not gotten over the finish line. so we are wary about making predictions or promises. this is close. and with enough pushing from the outside mediators and the commitment of israel and hamas we can get it done. i was in israel, as you said, just a few days ago. i sat with prime minister netanyahu, and prime minister netanyahu made clear at this moment israel is ready to do this deal. so the final piece of the puzzle, from my perspective, is for hamas to ultimately come forward with a commitment on the release of hostages in that first phase of the multiphase deal. if we can get that done, we can have a cease-fire, we can get hostages home, and we can get a surge of humanitarian assistance into gaza. >> david ignatius is with us in washington, a question for you, david. >> jay, i just wanted take you a little bit further into the negotiations to get this hostage release. by asking what is the blockage that is still holding up the still? it seemed close, you

said, a few days ago. how are you going to bleich through the remaining blockage? one of the leverage points, which sound like the principal remaining stumbling block. >> david, that's a great question. i think there are two ways to look at the obstacles to getting across the finish line. one of the details is the big picture. on the details, they are working through the names of hostages who would come out in the first stage, the names of prisoners who would be released as part of this exchange. and some specific details about the disposition of israeli forces during the cease-fire. so small details, but those can be worked out. the big picture question is is hamas prepared to finally say yes, let's do it? i think we have reached that point with israel, and the question is can we reach that point with hamas? i think the entire world, including the mediators, egypt and qatar, need to call upon

hamas to finally say yes and do this deal. >> so what is acceptable to israel from hamas? what is hamas asking for the prime minister of the israelis have set okay, i guess we can live with that. if it brings our hostages home. because as you know better than anyone at this table and better than most people in the world, negotiating with terrorist groups is not something you do lightly, because you don't know what they will do next. >> right, so as you know, the deal is set out in multiple phases. the first phase is about making sure that we can get out certain key groups of hostages. the remaining women, the elderly, and the wounded and sick. so the real question right now is is hamas prepared to have that full group of people, all of those who are women, elderly, and wounded and sick come out. and until they confirm they are prepared to do that, we remain in this position where we are close to the finish line but not over it. and you are totally right, you

cannot trust a terrorist group like hamas. but we did do a hostage deal last year that got 78 hostages out. hamas made a commitment, we verified that commitment, and every day 10 hostages came out and ultimately we got 78. so it is possible to do this. >> what is hamas asking for as part of this deal, in exchange for releasing the hostages? is it state? what are they asking for the prime minister has said they are open to? >> the first phase of the deal includes an exchange of hamas prisoners or palestinian prisoners for hostages coming out. and it includes a substantial surge in humanitarian assistance into gaza. hundreds and hundreds of trucks every day. and that is not because the united states or anyone else is trying to hold us back it is because if you have a cease- fire and place, if there is calm in gaza, it is that much easier to move very large quantities of humanitarian assistance around, because you are not moving around in a war zone. so those are the kinds of things that the people of gaza

stand ready to benefit from in this deal if hamas would say yes. >> you know, with the chaos throughout the middle east, with the war against hezbollah, a very effective war against hezbollah, with syria falling, it seems that the dire humanitarian situation in gaza has sort of fall into the back page. talk about how extreme the suffering is right now, how absolutely extreme the suffering is for the people of gaza. >> first, joe, too many people, too many innocent people have died in gaza as a result of the military activity there since october 7th. so you have civilian casualties in addition to the very large number of militant casualties of hamas, including the killing of the very top. >> that's what i'm talking about, i'm not talking about hamas. >> right, so there's the death of innocent civilians. and then for those living in gaza, there is acute suffering. they are going through hell .

they are having a hard time accessing a sufficient amount of food, water, sanitation, medical care. and part of that is because, in any war zone, it is difficult to get that stuff to people who are caught in the crossfire. in this particular case it is especially difficult, because of the nature of gaza. it is an area that people can't leave. usually civilians can leave war zones. here egypt is not going to let them leave. they are not going to going to israel. so, the unique and acute nature of the suffering here is something that we do not see. >> is israel doing everything it can do to allow humanitarian assistance to go in for children , for people suffering from famine, to get the sort of medical care that these people are not getting right now? is israel doing enough? >> at many points over the course of the past year plus now, we have said israel has to do more. and when i was just in israel a few days ago, i kept pressing that.

i said yes, more is getting in, yet more has to get in. and we went through details in a way i don't think really any national security advisor ever has. what are the crossings? how many trucks? what is on the trucks? how do we maintain security along the routes of those trucks so they are not looted? things that get down to the minute into details. because those details could be the difference between someone getting to eat and not getting to eat in gaza. this is something we take very seriously. i believe we have made progress in the last month, but progress is not enough. we need to get to a point where everybody is getting the lifesaving sustenance. >> jake, stay with us, we want to cover the big news from syria after the country's regime collapsed. morning joe is back in a moment.

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welcome back. white house national security adviser jake sullivan is with us, and jonathan has a nice question. >> let's turn to syria after the stunningly swift fall of assad . the real question is

what comes next. fears that this could be a launching ground for terrorism again. fears that the new government could backslide into a taliban situation. what is your read on this rebel group? can they be trusted? can they be governed with? >> first, just to recognize the leader of this group was originally part of al qaeda in iraq. then he was part of isis. then he broke with both of those two groups. and today he speaks about an inclusive, tolerant syria that will respect the rights of minority communities, including christians and alla whites, who are not from the dominant muslim faith that he comes from. but as president biden says, we need to see words translated into deeds. there is an enormous opportunity now that the butcher assad is gone, for syria to build a better future. but as you said, there are huge risks. and the single weakest risk i see is that isis comes back. because isis wants to take advantage of any vacuum or instability in syria following the civil war. so the u.s. has to be laser focused on suppressing the threat of isis. resident biden ordered the

bombing of isis personnel and isis facilities within hours of assad calling, and we are going to stay on top of that. but i will not sugarcoat it. this is a real threat. the threat of terrorism returning in syria because of what happened area and it is incumbent on us and everyone in the region a push back hard on that. >> to joe's point on gaza, we are in over 400 days that they have been holding hostages. gaza has been destroyed. the entire strip destroyed. what is the level of frustration like within the biden administration over the conduct of the israeli military operation, the way they have waged war in gaza and are still waging war? the conduct of the israeli government in terms of the hostages, cooperating to get a hostage release? what is the level of frustration with the current administration in israel, and has been damaged beyond repair? >> so, i think we have to step

back and look at the context. hamas launched this massacre on october 7th. then it retreated, not to military facilities or to the open field of battle to meet the israeli defense forces. it retreated to schools and mosques and to hundreds of miles of tunnels under densely populated civilian areas. so israel has had an added burden in fighting this war of dealing with an enemy that does not give a whit about civilians in gaza. civilian palestinians. but that does not lessen israel's response ability to minimize civilian harm and to maximize the flow of humanitarian assistance. and we have set over the course of the past 14 months that israel should do more in both of those areas. i believe it is an american commitment in a jewish commandment that every innocent life has value. and we have stressed that to the israeli government over time, and we have had our concerns we have expressed this privately and occasionally we have laid them out publicly. now, on my most recent trip i felt like, with respect to the

hostage deal especially, the israeli government is prepared to do this deal. i believe that. i think there've been points in time where they have focused on details and pressed the point of various aspects of the deal. now they want to see it done. and the real question is is hamas prepared to step up and do it? >> before we let you go, let's talk about ukraine. in one month and two days the trump administration will take over from you all. there has been skepticism, to put it mildly, and sums corners of the maga world about america's support for ukraine. should we be spending all this money to support ukraine? there has been some sent the expressed in some quarters for vladimir putin. what is your level of concern as you said here this morning about what happens to ukraine on january 21st? >> well, listen to some of the rhetoric that has come from the other side, with respect to ukraine. it does leave me concerned that the united states or anyone else would try to impose a solution on the people of ukraine, i think that would be

wrong. but i hold onto the hope that the incoming president cares about making good deals, not bad deals. and that he and his team will recognize that to have a just peace in ukraine, a fair negotiation, you need leverage. and to have leverage, it means you need to keep supporting ukraine. you cannot pull the rug out from under them. will they do that? i don't know. but i hope that logic, as part of the concept of making a good double medic deal to end this war, does take hold in the trump administration. that is certainly what we are communicative. and i will say, we have had good coordination with the oncoming team for a smooth transition, especially in light of what is happening in both ukraine and the middle east. it is important that no one in the world see significant daylight between the two administrations, especially our enemies that they would try to take advantage of. and my successor, congressman mike wallace, has made the same point. >> david ignatius. >> jake, one more question for me about today's events in moscow and the killing of the very senior russian general,

general kirillov . the ukrainian intelligence service has claimed credit for this assassination operation, done with a bomb on a scooter in the middle of moscow. do you think operations like that are appropriate? what is the united states view? >> david, i learned about the same way you did, from the public. i noted, as you did earlier in the program, that it was unusual that ukrainians came out white explicitly and took credit for it. and i can betray with you, the united states does not support or enable operations like this. we do support and enable ukraine to defend itself and to take the fight to russia forces on the battlefield, but not operations like this. coming up, elon musk gutted twitter. will he do the same to the u.s. government? the billionaires biographer walter isaacson weighs in on that and much more on warning joe. yle libre 3 plus sensor is covered by medicare

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that celebrates the new longevity. not retirement, longevity. joining us now, ceo and founder of roar forward, he is also the author of the book entitled roar into the second half of your life. before it's too late. this is so synergistic with 50 over 50, as we have discussed in the past, where i thought gosh, when the list came out almost four years ago, maybe i shine the light on a few women who have really been able to be successful in their 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. and what i discovered as i was tapping into a groundswell, like we have arrived. and these ads are great, because they show that, and dove is really on the front lines of this. >> yeah, dove has been a trendsetter in the space for a long time. they started with their body positive ads, as you know, and now they are stepping into what we call the longevity space. and this collection of ads that

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health and human services secretary nominee robert f. kennedy junior has reportedly been spotted working out and a new york city equinox gym in tight jeans and hiking boots. if you think that is weird, wait until you hear every single other thing about him. according to a new survey, 83% of supports the proposal to mandate education and federally funded schools, a revolutionary idea they can believe no one thought of before. i didn't like it when she did it. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. in the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east. special correspondent at "vanity fair," and host of the

"fast talk" podcast, molly fast. and the great walter isaacson is here. and member of the "new york times" editorial board, morrow day joins us, also with us, u.s. national editor at the financial times, and loose is here. his latest piece for the financial times is entitled's "trump's financial of the sensory century." plot first, robert f. kennedy junior was back on capitol hill yesterday to meet with lawmakers. not all republicans are rushing to back the embattled choice. nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> reporter: after another marathon day of meetings, the senators on capitol hill, robert f. kennedy junior, president-elect trump's choice to lead the health and human services department is facing

bipartisan skepticism over his stance on abortion. >> i want to talk about his abortion stance. he is all over his map, all over the map. >> they are life-and-death issues. we are very serious about this. this is not a political gain. >> reporter: during the presidential run, kennedy supported abortion access. he now says, he supports trump's view, leave the issue to the states. for now, that is seeming to win over key concerning senators pierce >> we talk about abortion and the big thing about abortion, he is telling everybody, president trump, i'm going to back him 100%. >> reporter: it comes as the president-elect is taking a more aggressive stance against media outlets he views as bias. days after securing a multimillion dollar payout from abc over a defamation case, he is filing a new lawsuit against well-known poster and seltzer and the des moines register, accusing them of consumer fraud and election interference for publishing a poll that showed

iowa down in november. trump won the state. sales declined to comment. the newspaper says, it stands by its reporting. immigrants are wondering, what is next for their party. in their first major speech since conceding the election, vice president harris giving no hints about her political future, but urging young people to stay engaged. >> we must stay in the fight, because that is the responsibility, in my opinion, that comes with the privilege of being an american. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez with that report. meanwhile, it appears some senate republicans are raising concerns about tulsi gabbard, donald trump's peak for director of national intelligence. met with lawmakers on capitol

hill yesterday, but at least eight republicans are unsure about rep confirming her to the position. reuters reports, those lawmakers believe gabbard was unprepared to answer tough questions during her initial round of meetings last week , including her 2017 visit to syria with then-president. the senators are also reportedly concerned about her lack of intelligence, experience. if gabbard loses the vote of the state senators, she will need support from democrats, the former congresswoman met with democratic senator john fetterman yesterday. so, i mean-- >> it is sort of this morphing grooving moving group of republicans. that actually makes a lot of sense. if you focus on intelligence issues your entire adult life you're not going to turn it over to somebody who says sympathetic things about russia . same thing with if you're

interested in america's national defense, probably not pete hegseth. i will say, gabbard does not surprise me. i always thought she was the most at risk of going down in a nomination fight. i will say, i was a little surprised yesterday how open some very conservative republicans were on rfk junior. >> oh. [ laughter ] >> that is what i am saying. i think it is very interesting too that john kennedy was that way because we southerners understand the vaccine really helped the truly disadvantaged in the deep south more than anybody else. >> well, there is a lot going on here. i think that, first of all, i do think these senators are trying to flex some power with donald trump, because they don't want to spend the next four years just being a

rubberstamp. i think they are kind of trying to test their limits to see how far they can go without entering his raft. rfk is a decent target, considering the fact that he was a former democrat. it is much easier for them to raise questions about this. there are some conspiracy theories that rfk has trafficked in that have real concerns even in red america for example, the drinking of raw milk. the movement within this kind of rfk, conspiratorial , it is like a weird, holistic movement. not everything within that is that pierce >> the weird thing, like you talked about the raw milk, talking about vaccines, we conservatives used to make fun of hippies in san francisco in marin county going vaccines-- this was just like a decade ago that we would mock and ridicule

these sort of new age, left- wingers for all the things that have strangely become mainstream for a lot of trump's supporters pierce >> the other thing about this, if you are involved at all in kind of the social media universe of the tread wife movement, or this holistic universe, you are seeing things that some of these republican senators of a older generation may not be seeing. there may be a disconnect between what they know to be realistic, for example, they are thinking, we support pasteurization, not a virtually radical view, but i do think-- >> and fluoride in the water, and the polio vaccine, which i understand, there is a quote that was on earth from rfk junior saying, more people died of the polio vaccine from polio

itself, which would come as a big shock to tens of millions of americans that somebody actually believes that. >> it is a clip that has resurfaced this week with kennedy making rounds on capitol hill, suggesting the vaccine was deadlier than the disease itself, of course that cannot be less true. mitch mcconnell is a living and breathing example of someone who had polio in his lifetime, and eradicated because of this disease. i was like joe was, struck by senator kennedy yesterday. we talked for a while about, it will not necessarily be the same four senators who say no. yes, mcconnell might be more reliable on most, maybe not all, but you got to fill in the gaps of one or two somewhere else. jodi ernst held up an example of maybe opposing pete hegseth. we should not subtly suggest she is a yes vote. now, these senator from

louisiana's stance is maybe an unlikely person to oppose robert f. kennedy junior. >> it is important to remember, the senate is not the house. they have a longer timetable and while being threatened with primary challenges, it is not necessarily going to be-- a lot of these people are not up in two years. collins and thom tillis are. i do think it is meaningful to think about murkowski when she said that thing during the interview, you can't jodi ernst me into doing what you want. that is meaningful. she is not doing that because she is doing that because she is saying, we are-- i think, anyway, she's going to take articles section too seriously. again, if you bet on republicans being brave you will lose a lot of money. it does seem like there is certainly something here. >> the thing is, people need to understand what sort of politician talk. when somebody

says, i am going to allow the process to play out, what that means is, they are looking at somebody sitting in the middle of a rotten wooden floor and they are saying, i am not going to push them through that floor , i am going to just sit and watch the process play out. that is certainly happening right now with pete hegseth. everybody is saying-- nobody is saying joni kurtz did not say-- she is saying, i am going to see this through to the end. creek, creek, creek. it is that way with some of these candidates. yet, we will see. maybe pete hegseth ends up passing it. i'm to tell you what i am hearing from republican senators . you know what is interesting about rfk-- >> okay, so, the "new york times" review of mr. kennedy's

public comments over the past several years shows that he has consistently expressed views about the polio vaccine that are at odds with the medical consensus. for example, he has suggested that the vaccine was first introduced and it might have caused a wave of cancers quote, that killed many, many, many, many more people that polio ever did. it does. >> mika will repeat the same thing 12 times . >> so, he says that after the vaccine was first introduced, it might have caused a wave of cancers that killed many, many, many, many more people than polio ever did. and he has said that the idea he asked vaccine resulted in a drastic design the client in polio cases is a mythology that is just not true. >> that is when john kennedy in louisiana basically said, you better back off. what is so interesting, and i

know since you study science and innovators so much, what is the fascinating about how this actually rubs up against what donald trump actually knows is one of his great legacies is operation warp speed, which he could not talk about over the last seven or eight years, because his base did not want him to talk about it. i suspect that it the end of their career, it will be like one of the first rooms in the presidential library because it really was-- to do that in one year is something few people expected. that is why i do think he runs sort of head to head with kennedy on the vaccine issue. >> definitely fascinating. indeed, operation warp speed, getting a new type of vaccine was great. he was proud of it, and yet, he was made uncomfortable.

you have got two senators in louisiana, by the way. you have kennedy you talked about. i think he is using abortion as a cover, as a way to say, okay, i can vote against bobby kennedy , perhaps, because of the abortion issue. you also have bill cassidy, a medical doctor, who by the way, in voted for the conviction in the impeachment trial of donald trump. he is up for reelection and he may say, okay, this is the end of my term, but i know that cindy cassidy, as a doctor is just appalled by some of this stuff. >> so, ed luce, your latest piece delves into how elon musk and other super entrepreneurs stand to benefit from the regulation. he writes in part this, my bet is that musk will fail to persuade congress to give up its power of the purse . but, congress will enact trump's tax

cuts. the net result will be a growing u.s. budget deficit, which at 6.4% of gdp in 2024 is already high. the growing physical deficit will leave lead to a higher cost of borrowing. that will leave the middle class was over in the greater share of the u.s. budget eaten up by debt servicing, and a hit to their personal bottom line through higher, real interest rates, but musk's true goal with codes is deregulation. the market's expectations that he will succeed in scrapping regulations has fueled his soaring network from the rising value of dodge coin, in which musk has a stake , to tesla, to spacex, all of musk's companies are booming. given the range and complexity of musk's interest, it will be hard for the media, congress ,

and other oversight bodies to keep check on the multiple plays at stake. >> i will let walter ask you a question about all of that in a minute. first, i want to go back to something i just keep hearing from finance leaders, bankers, economies on both sides of the atlantic. that is a growing fear of america's fiscal crisis . you talk about-- i have heard it over, and over again on both sides of the atlantic about how america can't keep spending the way it has 2007, through bush, obama, trump, biden, and now, there is a fiscal crisis that is coming. we are up to 6 1/2, 7% deficit, gdp. everybody saying, we have got to get it down to 3%. i don't know how we would do that, especially with massive tax cuts and increased spending when it comes to defense. i don't know how we get there from here.>> it is a

really good question. and it is complete contrast to when trump last came into office in 2017, when interest rates were effectively 0. the fed stocks were zero bound. money was basically free. therefore, the consequences of increased spending from trump's first term and the tax cuts were not showing up in terms of inflation. that only came after-- during the late pandemic. he comes in now in a sort of season of a straitjacket, on whether consequences of increasing that budget deficit would be majorly translated into the bond yields , into interest rates. that, i think will keep him honest. because, when the market reacts, it is not doing so yet, but when it's reacts to more deficit, it will be immediate, and it will cost a growth, and

hit the hollow voters who returned trump to office. i suspect it would cause the kind of eruption you saw-- if indeed he is serious about these plans, it will cause the eruptions you saw with liz truss's short-lived government in britain. she was killed by the market. >> this reminds me, walter, you will remember this back in 1993 , bill clinton was going to pass all the sweeping legislation, and he sat down rubin and greenspan sat down with him and said, if you do it, the bond markets are gone. >> may have been a mistake. >> the bond markets are going to crush you. the saying, when i was growing up, i thought i wanted to be a baseball player. actually, in my next life, i want to be like the bond market. >> i think if you talk to him now, you would think a lot of

democrats listen to too much of the bond market. >> the question now is, is there the same sort of physical straitjacket going into the new term with a $36 trillion debt? the debt then was like 3, $4 trillion. it spikes over the past 20, 25 years like 25 trillion. >> i will say, and i want to ask ann on this too, i will say that musk, when he gets into focus daemon mode he really goes after things and he is worried about the deficit. he just thinks this is going to kill the united states. and i watched him. in my book, i talk about him going into spacex, lowering costs tenfold so it is almost 100 the cost to get something that takes boeing or nasa to do. likewise, cutting 80% of the people at twitter. of course, the big thing is

when he does that at twitter, when he took it over, he owns twitter. he does not own the federal government. i read the piece and i turn to him and asked at least, i think musk is going to go in with his team, with the people he has embedded in omb with the people-- the agencies that he has helped place, and really try to cut costs, and cut regulations radically. and as you say in your piece, this is something that congress may not go along with. i tend to think that they may push the bounds of power. you have to explain to me exactly what sequestration is, and all. but i think they are going to end up cutting more than the conventional wisdom happens. do you agree? >> i think that might be right, walter. but if you look at plenty of lines and various

regulatory agencies over federal departments show, there is fact there. there is unnecessary bureaucracy . definitely overregulation in some areas. i suspect he will be successful in identifying some of those and getting rid of some of those. in terms of the sort of larger clench of cutting the fur from a 6.4 trillion federal budget, lsu cut defense spending, which trump has promised to do the opposite of, unless you have got dramatically falling interest rates, which would reduce the cost of servicing that huge, federal debt we have just been talking about, or lsu cut entitlements, which trump has pledged not to do, you are not going to make much of a dent in the federal budget. >> wait a second, let me push back on one thing you said. i know that elon musk thinks he

can get enormous amounts out of the defense budget. you say, that is not touchable. i think-- now this may never happen, he can rid of the f-35, the whole procurement process. >> can i stop you right there? i was on the armed services committee, and we were in pretty partisan times, but i found out pretty quickly when fire shots were being fired back and forth, that is the congressman from boeing. that is the congressman from lockheed martin. >> so you look at the arrows. >> they are not going to give up their program. they are not going to give up their base for anybody. >> when he goes on x and start hammering them to protecting boeing in alabama, pensacola, or your old district, and when he has trump on his side, it will be a more interesting fight that it was in the old days. >> know it is not. [ laughter ] >> let me just say this, i

would say that about so many things, but eisenhower was right. military, industrial complex, i saw it first hand were all of these people are like, i am a deficit hawk. what are we doing with this military program, it makes no sense? and the same people on the front lines would be fighting to cut this and cut that. suddenly, this program that was wasting billions of dollars became cyclists. >> i guess the question i have is, as somebody who is not a former republican member of congress is, i don't know how serious any of these people are about cutting the deficit to begin with. i see no evidence that they are and i think that doge appears to be an effort to have donald trump's friends get wealthy and to make an example of some lower cost programs that will make the base happy. and i think if they can cut some welfare, if they can kind of nibble at the edges, donald trump will call that a win, and

the problem will continue. the problem is real. i just don't see any suggestion that they are serious about actually cutting deficit. >> the only way to cut is that if you are after the things-- donald trump has said, we are not going to cut social security, we are not going to cut medicaid, we are not going to cut defense, and we are going through a massive tax. i want to ask ed luce, while you are still there with us, obviously, there is a great concern, not just from elizabeth warren, and other progressive democrats, but great concern for people like sam altman, people like jeff bezos, a lot of billionaires, very concerned wringing their hands that elon is going to use his position in government for a very unfair advantage. do you have a reporting on that? >> there is no precedent in

american history for a businessman on the scale of musk being that involved with the plans of an incoming presidency, as we see with elon musk. the conflicts of interest are also without precedent. i would probably be reincarnated as bitcoin, or a crypto current , or some type of vehicle. because musk's contracts, and also regulatory hurdles with the federal government are manyfold, as i said in that piece. one of the pledges that trump made in the campaign was to include crypto currency on the federal reserve's balance sheet , which would mean essentially, if he carries out that promise, whether it is doge coin, whatever it is, if he carried out that promise , the central

bank of america, the federal reserve would be underwriting a ponzi scheme. now, i don't know how you hold these interests to account, public interest to account, but i do know, notwithstanding the very acute observations that walter made, that spacex, one of musk's big companies, has $15 billion in contracts with the pentagon. many of musk's allies, like peter thiel , they have huge contracts with the pentagon. these are conflicts of interest. these are serious, gargantuan, unprecedented conflicts of interest. >> walter, really quickly, i hope you are right about the pentagon. i hope they can find those savings, maybe a little skeptical there. i want to finish with you, same

question i asked ed. there have been some people in financial times that says, no, elon likes competition, he does not believe in-- what do you think? how much advantage is he going to take of the position that he is in right now to go after sam altman, to go after jeff bezos, to go after his billionaire competitors he works >> i think there are conflicts of interest. obviously conflicts of interest that are being riddled with this new administration, and it is a real swing back and that could be the achilles' heel. in the end, even what seemed like little things, like buying the hotel back in washington, having everybody joining mar-a- lago, must musk get rid of some of the fcc enforcement, or highway safety enforcement he does not like. i think you are going to see conflicts of interest, and that

will be what is played out on the national stage soon. >> u.s. national editor at the financial times, ed luce, thank you very much. his latest piece is online now so you can all read it. member of the "new york times" editorial board, mara gay, thank you as well. taking a look at other headlines this morning, walmart employees will be wearing body cameras as part of a pilot program at some of its u.s. stores. those locations have signs on the door to let shoppers note that such cameras are in use. while many smaller retailers have started using body cameras as a way to deter theft. a source tells cnbc, the retail giant intends to use the tech for worker safety. the move comes during the height of the holiday shopping season, when interactions with customers can be more tense and hostile than usual. wow. new research finds americans under the age of 40 are richer

than ever, but still feel an increasing sense of economic fragility. a new treasury department report finds that disaffection and despair, especially among young men, are increasing. rising cost of homeownership, increasing student loan debt, along with a decline in the physical and mental health of young americans are all cited as primary reasons. congress is on track to get the district of columbia long- term control of the federal rfk stadium site. this would allow for a major redevelopment project to move forward in hopes of bringing washington commanders that to the nation's capitol. the legislation attached to the spending bill congress needs to approved by midnight on friday to avert a government shutdown. it will allow d.c. to transform 170 acres that includes the rusting rfk stadium into a

sports and entertainment district and build a new stadium. it is worth noting that even if the bill is passed, the commanders could still choose to remain in maryland, or moved to virginia, as the franchise looks to build a new venue. >> everyone is too young, except walter and me, to remember when the washington football team, formerly called the redskins-- >> do you think they will go back to that name? i've heard somewhere people are wishing for that name. >> know. you know there are some names you can go back to, i don't think there is one of them. but rfk stadium though, it used to-- did you ever go? they would score, and people would jump up and down, the entire stadium would shake. [ laughter ] it was an amazing game experience. >> the thing about that america, when we used to go to rfk stadium, everybody went in

the same gates, everybody set in the same stance. you have what michael said at harvard called the skybox of vacation of america, now, all the stadiums are separated by economic class. rfk due stadium was not that way. >> you could go to rfk stadium and see everybody. >> the team belongs in the district. that area is ripe for development. whether it benefits the city or not, but the washington basketball team, they built their part building by the waterpark. it exploded in that neighborhood. the team has this great tradition of the 80s, early 90s, they belong in d.c., not out in the suburbs >> i went to that stadium it is dreadful. it is as soulless as yankee stadium, and that is saying a lot. actor tom cruise, who

played one of the big screen's most iconic military characters was awarded the u.s. navy's top civilian honor. they say it is due to his outstanding contributions with the top gun franchise and other military movies such as, "a few good men," and "born on the fourth of july." he received the service away for increasing public awareness and appreciation for the military's highly trained personnel, while also highlighting the sacrifices they make. the release of the original top gun resulted in a spike in military enlistment, and according to the navy, the sequel had the same effect. fair enough. coming up on "morning joe," the federal reserve will announce its final interest rate decision of the year this afternoon. we will dive into what to expect, plus the u.s. economy continues to go along and be the envy of the world. how much credit should biden or trump be given for that? we will discuss that ahead. ah

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according to a new report this year, the most downloaded free app in america was temu. do not be surprised when your holiday gift is a had back from doce and banana. more business news, walmart announced some of their employees are wearing body cameras. one way to remind customer, hey, a lot of crazy goes down here. of course, the walmart greeters , the cameras will be shooting up there knows the whole time. how do i turn it back on, say hi to the baby. >> we disassociate ourselves from comments that suggest anything awkward about the greeters. the federal reserve is expected to announce its third

and final interest rate decision of the year. today's meeting will also include an outlook on the state of the economy, as well as an update to future projections. >> let bring in coanchor and "new york times" columnist, andrew's work in. andrew, we were talking a couple of days ago about the concern that there may be some inflationary policies coming up. are we expecting the cut today? >> i think we can get the cut today. set your alarm to 2:00 p.m. . that is not the thing to focus on. the cut is probably less relevant, if there is a cut. what i think will be most relevant is watching what powell says during this press conference afterwards, and look over there actually is more inflation than we thought and we plan to sort of stand back and do nothing for some extended period of time. i think he will get on a hammock and hang out for 6 months and not cut rates, because i think there is more inflation than that.

whether he accepts or admits there is more inflation than there is is also going to be an interesting little tell. >> a lot of things bouncing around out there. people are very concerned-- when i say people, i'm talking about investors, very concerned about tariffs, very concerned about physical pressures, monetary policies. there are so many bubbles me but it is important to say, underlying all of this was a hotter economy reported last week that anybody expected. >> 100%. i think the other piece is going to be the labor department, the labor market. which is to say, is it slowing down? i think we will have to see that. i think there is some data that suggests we are slowing a little on the labor peace too. sort of a cross current going on here. >> what happens about deportation, immigration, try to send people back, does that affect the labor market? >> that is huge. the question is, is he getting rid-- he present an electron

getting rid of 2000 people or 20,000 people? that is a huge question. >> how inflationary is it if it is more expensive? >> look, we all lived through the pandemic. remember when you cannot find people, restaurants were closing because they could not get staff? they had to pay extraordinary amounts of money that is what we are talking about. there are a lot of jobs in america where we are very reliant on immigrants, hopefully legal immigrants, but immigrants. the question is, what do you do about that? >> when you go into restaurants and they are half-empty because they did not have the staff. >> 100%. >> on the other side, people like j.d. vance and other things, people say that is a good thing. it will raise the wages of american workers. >> yes, and no. by the way, it will be inflationary in a good way to some degree. having said that, there are a number of jobs that or worse that america's americans don't want to have here they just don't, culturally.

>> not only that, let's go back and remember the days where you would drive past burger king's and they would say $24 an hour, we would be up in maine, $24 an hour. a guy that did work at a lobster shop, he had to guarantee workers $22 an hour, and healthcare. of course, that sounds great. >> is it that a good thing? >> by the way, it is a good thing for about three months, walter, until they have to shut down because, first of all they can't hire enough people to do the job, secondly, it is so inflationary, they are having to charge twice as much for their goods. >> that is what i think we have to look forward to. and then we would have to look forward to whatever happens with the budget in march here that will be another sort of big movement obviously, we just got through this little period

here. we will see the movie play out again, but with a little scarier crescendo indy. >> i saw a great article in the "new york times" last week that said, donald trump may not have some of the-- he may not have the staff members inside, restraining him from some things, but he is going to have markets. if you talk about immigration, i think he knows he can't go too far on immigration, because it will have an inflationary effect. same thing with tariffs, he will use it as a threat. except for china. you can get away with china, it will be harder for canada. the markets are going to be a real check on how far he goes on these things. >> i think there are two markets to think about, what is the stock market and that is symbolic for him. then, there is the bond market. the bond market is the one governor potentially on this whole situation.

you have a republican white house, republican senate, republican congress. the only sort of outside force, if you think they are a collective, is the bond market, bond investors saying, look, we are not buying your bonds unless you will pay us a lot more for it, and if that is the case, everything becomes so much more expensive. if that happens, that becomes a demonstrative problem. a new piece for "the los angeles times" entitled, "the u.s. economy is doing very well, don't give too much credit to biden or trump." jenna writes in part quote, trump has rapidly eclipsed the current president joe biden in setting expectations, and even an agenda for america at home and abroad. he feels as if the clock is on the second trump administration has already started. trump has reason to jump the gun on taking credit for the economy. now, it is doing amazingly well. the u.s. economy is the envy of the world. it is a stark contrast to the 1990s, when many expected europe's economies

to leave ours in the dust. if britain were an american state, it would barely edge out mississippi, our poorest state in per capita growth gross domestic product. >> say that one more time. this is amazing. americans, i have been saying this for a long time, i understand inflation over the last four years may have cost democrats, but our economy, i am telling you, europeans look at us like we are from another planet. they are so depressed at how well we are doing, and how poorly we are doing. the german government is falling, the french government failed, kier stormer is in so much trouble. read that last line again. >> if britain were an american state, it would barely edge out mississippi, our poorest state in per capita gross domestic

product. the point is, that we have had different presidents with very different policies and even more different rhetoric over the past few years, but u.s. economic trends, with the usual dips and spikes, have been largely positive through all those presidencies. none of this is to suggest that presidents and their economic policies don't matter, it is just that they don't matter ch as presidents and their partisans claim they do. >> by the way, one of the points they make in this article is very well done, is the american people just work harder. we are more productive. it is a productivity story. we work harder, we work longer. that is one of the reasons i think there is this remarkable diamond in this country. >> you talk europeans that come and work here, and they will say , from french intra- entrepreneurs, i've heard it from british entrepreneurs, they say, if you work too hard in france or britain, you are looked upon with suspicion. if

you work too hard in the united states, you are looked upon for a promotion. it is just-- this is something i was talking about earlier. in britain, i just kept hearing everybody talking about animal spirits, animal spirits. you all have it, we don't. again, almost like we are foreigners. >> almost like we are foreigners. [ laughter ] cnbc andrew, and take you so much professor at tulane university-- >> i like his eyes! >> is that what you call me, professor? >> always. coming up, your backstage pass to broadway's holiday season. a note before we head to break, go over to know your value.com, where we are celebrating women who reach their highest peaks over 50. it is our 50 over 50. in our

latest interview, sherry phillips, who recently was named "forbes" media's first ever female ceo and the company's 107 year history. sherry spoke to us about her new role. what women leaders bring to the table. her next best advice for the next generation of female leaders and so much more. it is all at know your value.com. we will be back with so much more morning show. morning but that means one in five children still won't survive. and every kid in this family is our kid, so we won't stop until no child dies of cancer. because that's what you do for family. this holiday season, join our st. jude family. we need you. please donate now. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated?

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come on, we're going for a sleigh ride ♪ christmas time is here again ♪ come on, we are going for a sleigh ride ♪ to spread good cheer again. ♪ jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way ♪ oh what fun it is to riding in a ♪ one horse open sleigh. ♪ what fun it is to ride in a one horse ♪ open sleigh. ♪

>> so fun. that is a look at last year's radio city spectacular, featuring the world-famous rockettes, which takes place every year at radio city music hall. this year's spectacular is running through january 5th. it is one of the many must-see productions taking place across new york city this holiday season. joining us now to help us sort through them all, emmy award-winning host of "on stage" on spectrum news new york 1, great to have you back on the show. we need fun things to do. >> yes, we do. we were just looking at one of them, the radio city spectacular. now is still going strong, 102 years later. i think over 70 million people have seen the show since it first debuted in 1933. amazing, right? there are drones, there is a new scene this year, there is a

new nativity. everything you want for christmas is in this show, right around the corner. >> the new york tops christmas concert coming up. >> happening on friday, one of my favorite traditions. this year's star is jessica voss, one of the stars of i have a feeling you may be seeing them in this concert, this glorious coming to city hall, it does not get better than this. >> and a new "annie." >> whoopi goldberg! she is good and she just got a rave in the times, she is playing ms. hennigan from now until the new year in this victoria production of "annie." it is playing out throughout the new year. >> and "elf," we have fair

starts here recently. let's talk about what you have called your favorite show. most " >> "sunset boulevard" have you had nicole here? >> we have had nicole on the show, which is why i am getting confused. >> our friends have given it nothing but rave reviews. >> a wonderful production. jamie lloyd in this production that was done in the mid-90s, andrew lloyd webber's show. nicole is giving a great performance. i would compare this to jennifer holliday in "great dream girls." she played opposite tom francis and me both coming from the uk to do it. unbelievable. >> "oh mary" i still have not seen it. >> it is amazing, you have got to go. i think we are going to see a lot of "oh mary" at awards times , especially the tony's in the

spring. >> you got to go to london. >> okay. >> "the devil wears prada" with music by elton john just opened in london, i was there on opening night. donatella versace, sc johnson, anna wintour were all there. >> i want to see this. >> it was fashion heaven. mika, if you don't get over to london, i think you can wait to see it on broadway, i am sure it will be there. >> if you go to london, take the train over to paris. a hit for the first time in paris. >> for the first time ever " les mis"is being praised. i saw it, five standing ovations later . a huge, huge hit. remember, the british did "les mis" pulling from the french novel.

this is a huge production. i think it will be a big pool after it closes in january. >> and finally talk about what you call the king lear in musical theater. >> "gypsy" starring six-time tony award winner audra mcdonald, returns. she is playing in the king lear musical theater. you said it, joe. i will be at that opening. >> can i have your job? >> sure, mika, or come with me, how about that? whenever you want. joe, you can come too. that does it for us this morning. anna cabrera picks up the coverage after a short break. asthma. does it have you missing out on what you love with who you love? it's time to get back out there with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks and can also be taken conveniently at home. fasenra helps prevent asthma attacks. most patients did not have an attack in the first year.

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