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mean for you and your wallet. and hate thwarted, gay peop. the new details about the firearms, rounds of ammunition, and bomb making parts that prosecutors say he intended to use. plus, to congress with love, lawmakers racing to avert a holiday shutdown with a preholiday plan that's decorated with a little bit of everything. but does it have the votes? our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. we start in hawaii, and the scene of that deadly plane crashing. nbc's liz kreutz is reporting on this. that area near the airport is busy. there's, i think, a dunkin' donuts, wendy's, multiple office buildings. what are witnesses saying? >> hey, chris, i think that is what was so freaky and shocking for so many people. this was a busy time of day, 3:30 in the afternoon when this happened. and so many people throughout

honolulu could see the plane come spiraling down and the massive plume of smoke and flames that came out of the building that it crashed into, and really officials are saying they are lucky this wasn't worse. we do know that two people have died. take a listen here to what one of the witnesses who saw the plane spiral had to say, and then also the final words from the pilot, the radio traffic, as they called in for help. >> 698, you're turning right, right? >> 689, we are out of control here. >> all of a sudden, i saw a small plane fly past my office window, which is on the 7th floor, and i went, oh, he's really really low, and he started banking and turning back towards the airport, and then i heard a loud bang. >> reporter: now, this was a cargo plane, a kamaka air cessna 208 plane, and officials say the

two ilots on board were conducting a training operation here. really, again, officials say may have saved lives in the sense that it seems that they veered off course and crashed potentially intentionally into this building, which was abandoned. it's set to be demolished and meaning they avoided the highway, they avoided the airport, and they avoided some of the busy areas around there, including a fuel farm, and so officials are praising those two pilots who sadly died, saying it could have been much worse, chris. >> what an extraordinary story, liz kreutz, thank you. to the big interest rate decision from the fed. nbc news senior business correspondent christine romans joins us now. what is it? >> it was a quarter point, the fed cut rates for the final meeting of the year, and that's to lower borrowing costs for businesses and consumers. so a third little rate cut here, and a lot of what the fed said is mostly the same, economic activity continues to be solid. the unemployment rate is in pretty good shape here,

relatively low, and inflation is moving towards the fed's target, although not there yet. when you dig into these numbers and the progression and forecast for next year, it looks like the fed is pencilling in two more rate cuts next year. that's a lot less fewer than many people have been expecting. the fed clearly with a solid economy here trying not to get ahead of itself, cutting rates, because that could be inflationary. this could lower borrowing costs, maybe for mortgages, certainly for car loans and credit cards. credit card interest rates are sky high. it could mean the high yield savings might start to diminish a little bit as well. we'll see what the fed chief says. 2:30 eastern time, he will hold a press conference and maybe give us a sense of whether they'll be pausing, they're going to be sitting here and not cutting rates in the near term. aman in michigan has pleaded guilty to what the doj is

calling a vile heinous plot. ken dilanian is following this. what can you tell us? >> the man charged is a 22-year-old named mac davis from the town of owasso. he has admitted to planning a mass shooting targeting the lgbt community. he was arrested after firing 60 bullets into his neighbor's property. he was transferred into federal custody. the fbi discovered from july 2023 to june of this year, he had been researching mass killers online and on social media sites and was paying tribute to them, according to court documents which say he wrote journal entries about mass killers. he acquired an arsenal, a cross bow and arrows, bomb making part, smoke grenades, tactical gear, clothing and various knives. he inscribed one of the knives with an anti-gay slur.

he planned to attack at two locations, a bar. he'll be sentenced later and faces up to life in prison, chris. >> ken dilanian, thank you. now to that stopgap spending bill that would keep the government from shutting down at midnight on friday night. it has been stuffed be last minute policy measures, a seemingly random poet tpourri o legislation. what do we know about what's in this bill? it is voluminous, and it hasn't been out for very long. >> reporter: it hasn't. more than 1,500 pages, chris, this bill dropped last night, and you'll remember that house republicans gave themselves a rule, known as the 72-hour rule. this would require any piece of legislation to have 72 hours before members are required to vote on it. that's so they can read it. of course they can't read a 1,500 page bill overnight. we are already hearing from

republicans, from those close to president-elect donald trump who himself has not spoken out about this bill but is already urging members to vote against it. it includes, in addition to extending current government funding levels into march 14th, it includes about $100 billion in disaster assistance that would help the states affected by hurricane helene and milton. it gives members of congress a pay raise. that is something causing consternation among some including elon musk and vivek ramaswamy, who are warning members not to vote for it or else they will face threats of getting primaried in two years. take a look at your screen. you see that from elon musk. he sent another post urging those on x to call their members of congress and essentially ask them not to vote for this package that they need to get done by midnight on friday, or else the government shuts down. the last time we saw this pressure campaign was actually last month when the senate republicans had their leadership race. i talked to many members back then, chris, you'll remember who had thousands of phone calls, voice mailboxes were full.

they had protesters showing up at their offices. we'll see how far this pressure can take elon musk and vivek in their effort to cut government spending. we're hearing from some republicans, who are eyes wide open at the bill. maybe they will vote for it, maybe they won't. take a listen to john kennedy and what he had to say, some colorful language there. >> i don't know how i'm going to vote. the bill is huge. it's bigger than a costco. it's like 1,500 pages. so far there are parts of it i agree with. there are other parts that make me want to run away screaming. i was hoping for a weenie christmas tree. this one looks more like the tree at rockefeller center. so i don't know how it's going to turn out. >> reporter: and i know a lot of people, chris, you know as well, like the way the 30 rock

christmas tree looks but certainly when it comes to this bill, that's not a good thing, especially when it bill is kicked into next year. republicans have unified government, and johnson has an even slimmer majority and a slimmer margin to work with. >> kennedy has been on fire. i mean, he's so low key, but he delivers those lines bigger than a costco. we'll see what happens. this is serious stuff. julie, thank you. confirming a cup of president-elect trump's most controversial picks, where rfd jr. and tulsi gabbard's stand. that's next. ♪ i'm only human after all ♪ ♪ oh, some people got the real problem ♪

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in just the last hour, we have learned two new details about president-elect donald trump's next pick to be secretary of state. senator marco rubio's confirmation hearing will be on january 14th, that's according to incoming foreign relations chairman, james rich. we have learned that senator rubio sat down this morning with secretary antony blinken. it was revealed in a state department briefing that the two had a quote, constructive and substantiative conversation. now, at the same time, the pressure campaign is mounting on senate republicans to confirm some of president-elect trump's more polarizing cabinet picks. assuming they make it to the confirmation stage, expect fireworks at their hearings. the divide between republicans and democrats is now playing out daily on capitol hill. now, in this case, over trump's

choice to lead health and human services, rfk jr., the key question for him, are his antivaccine statements disqualification? >> he wants to make sure parents understand the good, the bad and the ugly, instead of just forcing parents to give vaccines to their kids. at the end of the day, he doesn't believe that we all need to be guinea pigs, that we need to find out if they actually work first. >> these are big issues, life and death issues, let's be very serious about this. this is not a political game. well being of families and the lives of children are at stake. >> nbc's ali vitali is reporting from capitol hill. joining us on set, former republican congressman of florida, david jolly, and msnbc political analyst, and michael hard away, former communications director and spokesperson for congressman hakeem jeffries and former staffer for senator dick durbin. what kind of support are you hearing or lack thereof for rfk

jr. in his meetings with senators this week? >> reporter: senator dick durbin is right to lay out the stakes when you're talking about the skepticism and outright concern we have heard from senators on both sides of the aisle when it comes to rfk jr.'s prior statements and work on vaccines, that have worked to help people and save lives over the last decades, specifically when you talk about the polio vaccine, and comments that rfk jr.'s lawyer and ally has made about that vaccine. that's something that senators on the republican side of the aisle, including senator kennedy, who you were just talking about with julie said that they had concerns about. we heard from senator mitch mcconnell, himself a survivor of childhood polio, talking about the efficacy of that vaccine, and the need to not delegitimize things that help people live and have made people's lives better. that's just one of the issues, though when you talk about rfk jr. that he is having to grapple with they are in his meetings with senators.

it's also his past statements about abortion. he has had various positions on this issue, but many of those positions worry republican senators who fear that he might not be as antiabortion and anti-choice as they would like him to be, and so that's certainly one of the things that is also in the swirl here in the senate, that senators are gra grappling with. republicans have various members of this binet. it's not just rfk, it's tulsi gabbard, and pete hegseth who are controversial in their own ways. now that we're getting to a point where all of these nominees are on capitol hill, not just one or two, it's a reminder for many reporters, many senators, many staffers, that this is not just one confirmation battle that's going to be difficult, thorny and controversial, it's several of them, and it means that january is going to be a month of fireworks on capitol hill. >> no doubt about that. david, let's talk a little bit about rfk jr., you do have obviously vaccines, you have

abortion. you have his comments about fossil fuels, and the pollution they cause as a health issue as well. things that make folks on the right a little nervous. could they stop the confirmation or ultimately do you think that donald trump will get his way? >> i think donald trump will get his way. what we saw on the hegseth meetings on the hill last week, if you isolate joni ernst, the pressure from conservative media, all of this is starting to feel a lot like the kavanagh hearings, there are people with protestations, then they come into the fold. the greatest concern in the health care space with rfk jr. is the abandonment of public health. the role of government in those positions is to tune to the public health, not necessarily private health, but covid is a perfect example, how do we balance the needs of society to stay healthy, versus the freedom mantra that republicans like to

be in. and the societal cost from abandoning public health as well. the posture with the rallying of donald trump and maga behind them could be a dangerous chapter. >> michael, as trump's dni pick meets with lawmakers, sources say eight republicans are uncomfortable with tulsi gabbard. we know she also met with one of the democratic senators, john fetterman, take a listen. >> how was your meeting? >> it was great. this has been a great opportunity to meet with both democrat and republican senators and address any questions and concerns that they have, and talk about the role. i'm not going to speak for senator fetterman or any senator. >> reporter: are you feeling confident? >> i look forward to meeting with senators as we continue through this process. >> pretty much every pick and every meeting, it's great, right, it's always great. having said that, there are folks who are saying this is

different with her because it's not about a specific position she takes. there's a lot of reporting that she has gone into the meetings unprepared, she can't answer questions. is that a different thing in terms of how they vote? >> it's a different thing, but we need to know the answer to one basic question, what happened in syria. that was a very weird situation that none of us really know what happened. i knew her at the time, and i recall when she came back, it was weird. she was different. her staff didn't know where she was. >> what do you mean she was different? >> i can't explain it, but she was far more quiet and reserved when she came back and serious. >> what did you think at the time, knowing her? >> i had a friend in the office. the friend ended up quitting, she had no idea what was happening. her staff had concerns in terms of they didn't know what was going on. i have no idea. the fbi and others should be able to figure that out for us. >> and still, but if you listen to people who have met with her,

they still don't know the answer to that. >> i do. i served with her, and i was being courted by the same people asking me to go to syria at the time. the issue was democrats and republicans had agreed on a certain foreign policy posture towards assad, the syrian christian community in the united states was making the case that assad was at least protecting syrian christians. the ethnic civil war, at the time we were seeing heads on stakes. the syrian christian community was working hard to say, we're not telling you what answer is, but assad is protecting the syrian christians, and if we see regime change, syrian christians could get slaughtered. the question comes to tulsi's judgment. why did she then go? many of us were offered the same opportunity and said no. she said yes. what is at the route of the suspicion is there's a lack of

trust. they don't trust her judgment, her answers, can she overcome that, we'll see. >> do you know what happened or what her -- if there was a change in her might have happened when she was over there? >> no, the issue was the meeting with assad. and that's where all members of congress said, no, we're not doing that. she said, yes, we will do that. i think that speaks to her judgment, raises real questions in a confirmation hearing. >> there's also a question of if one of these or more, i suppose you could say, if one of these picks doesn't make it, who would they be replaced with. the "wall street journal" reports, for example, that tucker carlson and donald trump jr. led a campaign to prevent mike pompeo from becoming the next defense secretary. it does raise the question, who would have donald trump's ear? >> let's not forget about the fact that the trump operation isn't a traditional one. just because someone has a position, doesn't mean they have the president's ear on that topic. donald jr. doesn't work for the transition, but he has a

significant impact on decisions that are made there. that's another thing to consider when we figure out who's getting these roles in the cabinet because the real question is who has the real influence there. >> cr, what happens, it gets through? >> it gets through, easiest vote a politician could take. >> 1,500 pages, and they have less than 1,500 minutes to look at it. thank you, both. $230 million, that's the budget short fall that immigration is currently facing, according to two officials. that lack of cash could have a major impact on president-elect trump's plans for mass deportations. nbc's julia ainsley is rorg on -- reporting on this for us. walk us through what this means. >> i was surprised to learn this myself. two officials say i.c.e. is running hot, meaning their operations are running above what they're budgeted for, even though they asked for more money, both in the bipartisan negotiated border bill that failed earlier this year, and in

the fiscal year 2025 budget, and that cr you just talked about means they're going to keep those current funding levels but think about it if they are $232 million in the hole, how would trump go in on day one and be able to get to a mass deportation effort, that we understand from estimates from outside groups could be somewhere near $90 billion. it's not feasible. now, we understand there could be a reconciliation, julie tsirkin has been reporting on the hill. a surge when trump takes office, but julie's reporting says that could take months. it's hard to see how trump could overcome this budget shortfall and make good on the mise to start mass deportations, at the current rates, able to deport 230,000 people in fiscal year 2024, which just ended a couple of months ago, how they're going to continue to bring that up to a million a year when they're already in the red, chris. >> the logistics, the mind, not

to mention, the money. thank you so much, julia. still to come, the new gaza evacuation order as high profile american negotiators held to the middle east. the new reporting about exactly what could be in the peace deal being negotiated right now. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc we can help more children who really need it. families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food. but we can't help these kids without you. this holiday season, join our st. jude family. we need you. please donate now. [music playing]

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today in gaza, new signs of war, despite growing hopes for

peace, as israel orders another evacuation in the center of an the enclave and ahead of a new offensive. a comprehensive cease fire deal between israel and hamas is close. right now, the cia director is in do ha working to advance those talks, and earlier today, for the first time, we heard some specifics from white house national security adviser, jake sullivan. >> on the details they are working through the names of hostages who had come out in the first phase, the names of the prisoners who would be released as part of the exchange and then some specific details about the disposition of israeli forces during the cease fire. small details, but those can be worked out. the big picture question is hamas prepared to just finally say yes, let's do it? i think we've reached that point with israel. >> joining us now, nbc's hala

gorani and mike memoli is with us well. nbc news has new reporting on those talks. what have you learned? >> reporter: we understand that this would be a three-phase deal if it goes ahead. the first phase would involve a six-week cease fire during which about 30, and you heard jake sullivan there saying we didn't know exactly, we're still working on the names. he said 30 live hostages because of the about 100 people still detained inside of gaza. we know that about a third are probably dead at this stage. 30 live hostages from the quote, humanitarian group, which would mean people who are elderly, people who are perhaps wounded, and women, and during this six-week phase, there would be an exchange of prisoners with palestinian detainees held by israel. and this is what they're working out right now. when jake sullivan said it's a small detail with the disposition of israeli troops, who would be inside of gaza, that is a little surprising to hear because this is something that has killed deals in the past where the israeli military

and benjamin netanyahu, the prime minister, have said repeatedly that they want to maintain security control over the gaza strip, and maintain a presence, for example in the philadelphia corridor, which is that strip of land between egypt and southern gaza. this is a deal breaker for hamas. if israel insists on that, it could be something that gets in the way of striking an agreement, chris. >> mike, what is the biden administration doing in the final weeks trying to get this deal across the finish line? >> reporter: there's no doubt, this is one of not the highest priority for the biden administration as it relates to foreign policy before the president leaves office. we're now one month from tomorrow, the final full day of the biden administration, and you see both in their actions and in their words, the backing up of that commitment. one is you see the steady tempo of senior administration officials who are in the region. you mentioned the cia director, bill burns, who has been a key broker of deals in the past,

meeting in qatar, with a key broker of the deal between the u.s., israel and hamas. you have brett mcgurk, jake sullivan was just until the region, as was secretary of state antony blinken, and i think it's worth highlighting what we heard from sullivan this morning, he was far more detailed in the past. even the tone of voice, having heard him discuss this crisis for months, seemed much closer to optimism in terms of a finish line being further down the field than in the past. hala is right to inject skepticism and sullivan and others have acknowledged they have seen these types of deals fall apart in the past. what's different now is you have a trump administration now on the doorstep here coming in. you heard from the president-elect yesterday saying he wants to see a hostage deal, a cease fire done before he comes into office or as he put it, it's not going to be pleasant, and it's worth also highlighting the fact that today secretary of state antony blinken spoke in much more

detail with his potential successors, senator marco rubio, and we know that there has been some good cooperation between the national security teams of the outgoing and ingoing administrations about major developments on a number of fronts including this that they would have to pick up in office in just over a month. >> prime minister netanyahu and the idf have gone into an internationally recognized buffer zone, securing that area has become a major priority for israel since the rebels overthrew syria's long time dictator, bashar al assad. what do we know about israel's plans for that territory? >> reporter: well, israel has moved quite deeply into syria, and didn't waste any time literally on the day of the fall of the assad regime taking over big parts of that buffer zone, which separates sear i can't tell -- syria from the goe lan heights, a region that was

occupied and seized by israel, and fully annexed in 1981. israeli just moving deeper into the golan, it is conducting almost daily air strikes all across syria, including on naval facilities in tartuse, which is right on the mediterranean sea. israel is taking an aggressive posture with regards to syria and this is drawing quite a lot of international condemnation from world leaders who are saying this is a violation of the sovereignty of syria at this point. at the same time, the new leader essentially of syria, the leader of the rebel group that overthrew bashar al assad is saying that he has no issue with israel, he doesn't want to start a new conflict israel, even asking some of the armed palestinian groups on syrian territory to withdraw, chris. >> hala gorani and mike memoli, thank you both. coming up next on "chris

jansing reports," questions about the mysterious drones in the night skies circulating in the halls of congress. we'll speak to one of the congressmen who just got a classified briefing on what they could and maybe aren't. what thy could and maybe aren't (sneeze) (♪♪) new alka-seltzer plus cold or flu fizzy chews. chew. fizz. feel better fast. no water needed. new alka-seltzer plus fizzychews. want a next level clean? swish with the whoa of listerine. it kills 99.9% of bad breath germs for five times more cleaning power than brushing and flossing alone. get a next level clean... ahhhhh with listerine. feel the whoa! not to be dramatic, but i love my whole body deodorant. really? mine stinks. look. here. try secret whole body deodorant. it doesn't leave an icky residue. and it actually gives me 72 hour odor protection... everywhere. secret whole body deodorant. narrator: at this very moment, children at st. jude

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a lot of questions still remain on capitol hill about what exactly is going on in our skies with all of these drones. here's what some house lawmakers on the intelligence committee said just moments after exiting

a three-hour closed-door briefing. >> no, we have no idea who owns these drones. we spent a lot of time in this hearing asking the question in every way imaginable as to whether or not any of these sightings in new jersey, connecticut, anywhere they're being cited are federal government operations and they are not. we were assured and we asked this question over and over and over again. they are not federal government operations, radiation, gas, recovery, anything else. >> there's no evidence that there's anything nefarious going on. >> to date they haven't found anything to indicate there's foreign influence, foreign actors or even little green men who are working on the american people. >> joining us now, democratic congressman, raja krishnamoorthi who was also in the closed door briefing. always good to see you. no little green men, we'll just sort of let that stay as a fact, but beyond that, would your bottom line be stop worrying?

>> no, not necessarily. there are about 5,000 reported incidents of these lights in the sky that were basically promised by the fbi, cia, dhs and other agencies, and they now determined about 4,900 of them can be explained as, you know, commercial drones, amateur drones, manned aircraft and the like. they're still tracking down what's going on with those other hundred incidents, but my main point that i took away was i think they should provide more of the information faster to the public, especially if they know that something is a manned aircraft, for instance, providing information to the public about, okay, this is the flight tracker data. this is how you know this is a civilian aircraft and so forth. the second takeaway that i had was that there are inadequacies, holes in our law with regard to

providing authorities to local law enforcement, as well as other agencies in detecting and potentially defeating drones or taking them down in a safe manner. there's also a lack of authority for them to do these things, a lack of rules and regulations. these are things that we need to all work on. >> there's a lot of questions i have after hearing what you had to say. let me start with this one. did you hear anything you wish you could say right now that you could tell your constituents, tell the american people that you can't for classified reasons? >> you know, one of the things that we talked about were foreign adversaries, foreign powers, and whether any of them were involved with any of this, and so i can't get into, for instance, details of why we know it wasn't, for instance, the chinese communist party directing these drones in the northeast. but a lot of it had to do with information that was already unclassified, and they needed to

explain to us why they ruled x, y or z reasons out for why those lights in the sky appeared. >> so if somebody said to you, look, it's great that we know and feel confident about 4,900 of these, but 100 is not an insignificant number, so why can't we figure this out with everything that we have, all the technology that we have, all the manpower that we have? >> that's what we have to do right now, and that's, i think there is more of a sense of urgency today than there was before, chris. i think with regard to tracking down what's going on with the remaining incidents and, by the way, i think more are probably being reported to these agencies as we speak, but it appears as of right now, i haven't seen any evidence of a foreign power or a terrorist organization or some kind of nefarious reason for the lights in the sky yet.

>> before i let you go, congressman, i want to get your response to breaking news, the supreme court, as you know, has agreed to hear arguments on the constitutionality of the tiktok ban in january. you obviously were a sponsor of the bill to ban that popular social media app, so i wonder what you're expecting from this conservative court. >> i think they're going to uphold the law. to be clear, it was more about forcing bytedance to divest or sell tiktok usa so it can remain or flourish, but not under chinese party communist control. right now, our message to bytedance and tiktok is the clock is ticking, time to sell. >> all right. congressman raja krishnamoorthi, thank you so much. i really appreciate you coming on the program. >> thank you, chris. donald trump's lawyers tell nbc news they received information directly from a juror on the new york hush money trial that they believe constitutes jury misconduct. and trump's team believes that should be enough to overturn the

verdict. but judge juan merchan says he's prohibited from considering those claims. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin is here to break it all down. is there something the trump team should have done, could still do that could make it possible for the judge to do something? what's happening here? >> so judge merchan is saying to the parties in the letter order, chris, essentially you didn't frame this in the right way. if you want to make allegation of grave juror misconduct, you need to support it by a sworn statement, and you need to put it in the form of a motion. i can't consider this on your motion to dismiss the entire indictment, which is pending, but if you want to vacate the verdict on this ground, submit a motion, i'll be happy to consider it. >> half of the trump team letter is redacted by the court. i don't know what this is, but are there any clues from that?

>> there are some correspondence also from the d.a.'s office on the other side of this that we have seen. the one clue is that it's not clear that the source of the allegation is actually a juror himself or herself, but potentially a third party who came forward to report something that a juror might have done. and then it seems clear that somebody, then, retracted or rescinded or disputed those allegations based on correspondence from the d.a.'s office. that also is something that the judge had noted because these things are contested, it's all the more important that whoever is making these allegations do so, put their signature to it, and swear to its accuracy. >> lisa rubin, thank you. >> thank you. well, if you've ever ordered food online and the total has come out to double of what the app originally claimed, you're not alone. it's one of the reasons that food delivery service grubhub is paying its customers $25 million after settling with the federal government over charges that it was misleading customers, workers and restaurants. the ftc says grubhub exaggerated

discounts, made false promises about payments and added stores to their platform without consent. grubhub categorically denies the allegation saying it simply believed reaching a settlement was in its best interests. coming up, could a little known state senator from new york be the next leader of the democratic national committee? you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc coughed, laughed or exercised. i couldn't even enjoy playing with my kids. i leaked too. i just assumed it was normal. then we learned about bulkamid. an fda approved non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years. it's been the best thing we've done for our families. call 800-983-0000 to arrange an appointment with an expert physician to determine if bulkamid is right for you. results and experiences may vary.

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a top contender to lead the democratic national committee, ken martin is now acknowledging, and i'm quoting him here, we're getting our butts kicked and 24-year-old david hogg who's running for vice chair of the dnc told me just yesterday, change starts with listening. >> what we need to do is make sure we build a party that when young people come to us and say they're struggling to pay their rent, that say they're fearing for their safety because they perceive crime is going up, we don't throw a chart in their face and say you don't understand. we need to meet them where they're at. >> despite the criticism of democrats' messaging and losses in november, there's no shortage of candidates who want to help rebuild the party, and we have asked all of the dnc candidates to join us. here with us today, new york state senator, james scoufus, good to see you. thank you for coming in. >> thank you, chris. >> i'm going to do a reality test.

you were just talking about that honestly and openly in the break. "politico" says you have held no leadership positions nationally or otherwise, why should someone vote for you? >> this moment in time requires an outsider who knows how to win, who's aggressive because all that matters is getting back to winning and the only way we do that within the dnc is by shaking up the organization, not tinkering around the edges, and someone who's been in the dnc for five years, ten years, fifteen years is not going to be positioned like i am, if i'm successful, to tell the d.c. consulting class, no, we're not doing it your way anymore. to tell the folks i'm refrlg er to as the cocktail circuit, you've had your fun, the gravy train is over. a d.c. member a few days ago, told me in the heat of campaign, battleground state, she was getting 16 mailers a day, daily, on average, and i don't know about you, i have run a lot of campaigns, i have won them all. there's nothing that 16th mailer doing that the 15th mailer was

not doing. i'm the candidate who is the outsider, the underdog, doesn't come in with these relationships, but this moment in time calls exactly for this type of person to lead the dnc and really make the big changes that are required. >> but your experience is in a blue state, right, at a time, when november's election suggests what really democrats need to do is go back to winning in the heartland, obviously in the presidential race, they lost every battleground state. two opponents have key positions in the battlegrounds, did they have a better understanding of what it takes to reach those voters? how do you reach them? >> so new york is a blue state. but where i am from, we're anything but blue. in fact, trump won my district by 12 percentage points, he's won three types over. my area resembles more of the industrial midwest and the great plains, quite frankly than new york city or the immediate suburbs, and look, i'm not a state chair. ken martin and ben wikler, certainly they have done

excellent jobs as state chairs. as dnc members is that all they care about having the dnc chair be the next national chair, i'm not their guys. if they want someone who knows how to go into the meeting rooms, town halls, elks lodges, media outlets that have been traditionally uncomfortable for national democrats to go into, for comfortable for someone like me, then let's have the conversation. when i'm successful in this campaign, i want to work with ben and ken to make sure that we start winning again in their states as well, wisconsin we obviously lost at the top of the ticket, just six weeks ago. they have got important in state supreme court races. in minnesota, we lost the state legislature. i want to work with them. they are extremely talented, lots of extremely talented folks to rebuild this party in those difficult, uncomfortable places that we have been running away from for far too long.

>> they are frustrated democrats who say a lot of folks talk a good game. they talk about let's get rid of the consulting, david hogg essentially said that yesterday. we have to meet people where they are. we have to talk to people and not talk down to them, that's maybe great advice, and maybe true, the other thing, though, is how do you turn that into votes? how do you? >> yeah, so we've seeded too much ground, first of all. just a few days ago i was on brian meade's fox news radio show. i'm going to be the only dnc candidate who goes on his show and volleys the questions that come with that setting. that's what i mean by if folks are only hearing from one party, and whether that be because the republicans are the only ones showing up to their town or showing up to their media outlet or social media outlet where they get their news, guess who they're going to vote for, the party that is showing up. that's where it begins, and look, in terms of reorienting

who we're talking to, how we're talking to them, there's a 15% cut whenever we do a tv buy, whenever we do one of those 16 mailers going into people's mailboxes, and the reason why we are lighting that money on fire is because we're returning favors. these are effectively patronage dollars. we've got to have a dnc chair who tells, again, those folks, no, we're sending those resources to party faithful in the trenches, the human-to-human contact we have lost. >> new york state democratic senator, james, thanks for coming in. >> what do you rate your chances at? >> the bookies rate me as a long shot. but we're having lots of conversations. >> i keep thinking it's friday. it's wednesday, right? but still have a good weekend. that's going to do it for us this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. still two more days in this week for you to watch. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" next. contin

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. the house ethics report into former congressman and trump's one-time pick for attorney general, matt gaetz, is going to come out after all. two sources familiar tell nbc news the ethics committee secretly voted to publicly release the finding of the year's long