good to be with you. i'm katy tur. the house ethics report into former congressman and trump's one-time pick for attorney general, matt gaetz, is going to come out after all. two sources familiar tell nbc news the ethics committee secretly voted to publicly release the finding of the year's long investigation into

gaetz' alleged sexual misconduct and drug use. a reversal from the panel's deadlock over putting it out last month's when gaetz was trump's choice. he has since resigned from congress, which makes this move from the committee even more interesting. the math suggests at least some republicans ultimately sided with democrats on the matter, on that vote, so why? and is that report bad enough, and it's a big if, that the justice department could reconsider reopening the case? in a statement getting ahead of the report itself, matt gaetz is going on the record and he says, quote, my 30s were an era of working very hard and playing hard too. it's embarrassing, though not criminal that i probably partied, womanized, drank and smoked more than i should have earlier in my life. i live a different life now, but at least i didn't vote for crs,

continuing resolutions, that eff over the country. joining us now, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard in west palm beach near the president-elect's florida home. nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, and "punchbowl news" cofounder and msnbc political contributor, jake sherman. matt gaetz is getting into it at the very end there, trying to i guess throw another speaker under the bus? rer. >> reporter: yeah, and he's even suggested on another post on x that he may even come back to congress and take his seat he won in the last election cycle and be seated on january 3rd, just to vote against mike johnson as speaker and resign his seat after the fact. it's not as though he was saying that in jest, that's not to raise any alarm bells that we think that's going to happen. it shows the level of discontent with the fact that the ethics committee report is going to be released. matt gaetz has done everything in his power to try and avoid

this ethics report from being released. he resigned his post in congress and stepped down from his pursuit of becoming the next attorney general, probably because he didn't have the votes. there was the added benefit that this would tamp down the calls for the ethics report to be released. the ethics committee behind closed doors, we are not privy to their deliberations, the fact that this news came out is out of the ordinary. it must have gotten to the point that they believe the mountain of evidence they have collected over the years that this investigation took place needed to see the light of day, and that's the conclusion they drew, we expect to see this report by the end of the week, likely right after they finish up all the business they have in front of them, in terms of passing the continuing resolution and keeping the government open. but there's no doubt we are going to see this report, which about a week ago we thought was never going to happen. >> do we have any idea what's in it? when i've talked to people who know a little bit about this investigation who used to be in congress, they've said that they

believe it's pretty bad. they believe that matt gaetz is going to potentially be in quite a bit of trouble. >> reporter: we don't know what is in it, katy, that's number one. number two, one would have to assume, as ryan indicated that it's pretty bad if they feel like they have to get ahead of it. i don't know that either the biden justice department, which passed on prosecuting matt gaetz nor the trump justice department which seems incredibly unlikely to prosecute matt gaetz will take up this cause. what's interesting to me from an internal congressional point of view is that over the years there have been a few instances where a member of congress has resigned and the ethics committee has after the fact released a report that -- about that member, usually doesn't happen. usually the jurisdiction ends, they can't keep investigating people who leave congress.

they usually don't release reports for people who leave congress. there's an argument to be made and the ethics committee has made it in filings in the past, the public should know what the ethics committee has spent time and taxpayer money investigating. and i think that's at the end of the day, number one, one of the reasons they're going to release this. number two, matt gaetz has very few friends up here. he has tussled with my guest, the chair of the ethics committee, he has tussled with members on the committee. and at the end of the day, it's an constitution, katy, that operates on relationships, and if you don't have relationships, you're going to probably be screwed at some point, and that's what we're seeing. there's no love lost with most members of congress and matt gaetz, and the fact that a republican joined with democrats to do this, at least one republican joined with democrats to do this says a lot. >> any reaction, vaughn, from trump world?

>> reporter: no, not at this point in time, and there's been no social media posts by donald trump. the transition has been quiet, and i think that this is for donald trump no longer his issue. matt gaetz can remain an ally. he's going to be an anchor on right wing propaganda outlet called oan moving forward and for trump, and for matt gaetz, he knows that trump has been a chief ally of his over the years, throughout doj, house ethics, when speaker mccarthy was openly talking from the floor of the republican national convention about matt gaetz potentially going to jail, donald trump stood by him every step of the way and nominated him to be his attorney general. he's no longer his ag pick, and there's really no political capital needed to expend what he has put out there in defense of matt gaetz.

>> let's do liz cheney now. donald trump keeps talking about how he thinks she should be investigated by the fbi. there's an interim report from a congress member who is trying to blast open the january 6th committee investigation. liz cheney pushing back and saying we laid out all of our evidence. we laid it out in the public. we meticulously went through everything. we have republicans interviewed, including those high level republicans within donald trump's own administration, telling us what's happening. she's calling this a bunch of bologna, i mean, she uses better terms than that. she says it's a fabrication. it's defamatory, and an attempt to cover up what donald trump did. she said no reputable lawyer, judge, would ever take this seriously. vaughn, donald trump is saying he wants her investigated. he also said he doesn't believe he needs to tell his doj what to do, but they believe they know what to do. is this an instance that donald

trump doesn't have to actually direct anyone because everybody knows what he wants out of them if they get into positions of power? >> because he said it for the last two and a half years, ever since liz cheney began investigating him through the january 6th select committee. let's be very clear, i think it's important to go back to 2022 and the decision by then speaker mccarthy and republicans not to sit anybody, any of their own members outside of kinzinger and cheney on the january 6th select committee, and barry loudermilk, the chair of the oversight subcommittee is extracting some issues that he has with the january 6th select committee. made the allegation that liz cheney, illegally tampered with cassidy hutchinson, and let's be very clear, liz cheney has denied that the acts that she remembers were illegal, and that she had no role in convincing cassidy hutchinson to replace her counsel before she went and

spoke publicly in front of the country on the january 6th select committee there in front of the country, but i think this is for -- for donald trump, that is tacit acknowledgment in his overnight post there of what he wants to take place by kash patel and others, and barry loudermilk, they are willing to do the work to put together a report of what they allege to be misdeeds by congresswoman cheney, which i think it's objective to say the idea that what is being alleged amounts to significant criminalized, it's something that is worth the federal charges is deeply questionable, but for donald trump, an investigation is paramount to the pledge that he made on the campaign trail to go after his perceived enemies. >> let's talk about the cr with the time we have left. let's get into what's imminent. jake you have been doing a lot of reporting as you have as well, ryan, on the cr, it's not

an omnibus, it's not a long-term deal on the budget. what is it? >> well, it's an 85 day bill with a whole pile of policies that have nothing to do with general government operations, katy. usually speakers have two paths. they could do a long-term omnibus spending bill, which funds government for the entirety of the fiscal year, september 30th of next year, and that could hold, because it's so long, traditionally, that can hold a lot more policies. people feel like it's a longer term bill. they are taking a tough vote, toss a bunch of stuff in. in this instance, mike johnson did that three month cr into march 14th. less than three months bill, and he also loaded it up with a bunch of stuff, and i hate to say this because, you know, i don't hate to say it, it's

reality, elon musk has been going on a tear on his platform x over the entirety of the day and saying that anybody who votes for this thing should be primaried and out of congress. it is a pretty big bill. and it is a very bold, let's call it bold move by mike johnson to put all of these policies in a bill. everything from health care policy to transferring the land for a new stadium in d.c., you could take your pick over a million policies that people would find objectionable in this thing. i don't know if this could get through the house of representatives right now or even the senate. it's a big question, and remember, katy, the government shuts down on friday night. and today is wednesday. i mean, we don't have a lot of time to work with here. >> i feel like we have been here before. this does seem to be one of speaker johnson, his biggest test yet. this is where we saw kevin

mccarthy really struggle back when he was speaker before he was ousted by matt gaetz and a handful of others, and this is the issue of working with democrats. and speaker mike johnson says the reality, which is they have almost -- they have a majority that is so slim that they have no choice but to work with democrats, to act in a bipartisan way. is he going to be punished for this? >>. >> reporter: i'll tell you this, katy, i was just around a bunch of house republicans and asked a bunch of them that very question, and a lot of this just didn't want to answer, which i think is pretty reveals about how frustrated many of them are with the way that this particular budget negotiation went. what's interesting about mike johnson is that he was among that group of freedom caucus republicans who voted no an these crs, became speaker of the house and vote realized why this happened. this is the last time we're

going to do this, and this is the last time, and once we clear the deck, we'll start from scratch. his pitch now to his house republican colleagues is let's just get all of this done, clear the deck right now, and we'll start fresh in the new year, go through regular order, do a regular budget, everything will come out of the propositions committees, 72 hours before we vote on it. he keeps promising that's the future but is yet to deliver on the promise. so the margins are going to be tight here. i think most people are reasonably confident that they're going to get it passed, even if it comes undersuspension, which means it requires 2/3 majority, and they will meet the friday deadline. there could be a political consequence to speaker johnson that we have yet to calculate. the one caveat to all of this, the elon musks and the vivek ramaswamys of the world are out on x. donald trump jr. came out on x and complained about the cr, we have yet to hear about donald trump himself, and there's no one who moves the republican party quicker than the president-elect, and one of the

things that mike johnson has done very well during the short period of time that he's been speaker is develop and cultivate that relationship with donald trump. and that is part of the reason that he has been able to hold on to that job. and if he forces this cr down their throats and survives, it's going to be because he's convinced donald trump that it's going to be better for his presidency long-term. we don't have the answer to that yet. >> i think this and the confirmation battles are going to be indicative of what it's going to be like during a donald trump administration, how the varying factions are going to fight against each other or work together, what that's going to mean for governing and how chaotic it could potentially be over the next couple of years. jake sherman, that's an understatement, jake sherman, ryan nobles, thank you very much. i know that look, jake, i know what you're thinking. still ahead, is it illegal for a new york doctor to prescribe abortion pills to a texas woman. the new legal barrier the state of texas is trying to break.

plus, what the u.s. has to gain or lose from the fall of assad in syria. it does matter here. we're going to get into it. first, the suspect in the killing of the unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson is hit with terrorism charges. what prosecutors say he did that justifies that, and why some legal experts are calling it an overreach. we're back in 90 seconds. we're s ♪ who knows what tomorrow ♪ ♪ will bring ♪ [dog barking] ♪ maybe sunshine, ♪ [dog whining] ♪ and maybe rain ♪ ♪ but as for me ♪ ♪ i'll wait and see ♪ [knock at door] ♪ and maybe it'll bring my love to me ♪ ♪ who knows ♪ ♪ who knows ♪ ♪♪ everywhere but the seat. the seat is leather. alan, we get it. you love your bike. we do, too. that's why we're america's number-one motorcycle insurer. but do you have to wedge it into everything? what? i don't do that.

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luigi mangione will be in court tomorrow in pennsylvania where a source tells nbc news he plans on waiving his extradition to new york. if that happens, he'll be moved immediately to manhattan where he faces a slew of charges for the killing of brian thompson, including first-degree murder, which in new york involves an accusation of terrorism. joining us now, nbc news national and intelligence correspondent tom winter, former assistant district attorney with the manhattan district attorney's office and msnbc legal analyst, catherine christian and former new york state homeland security adviser and director of redland strategies, michael balboni. he sponsored the law on terrorism when he was a state senator. i want to get the latest from you regarding the hearing and the investigation. >> a couple of different things here, katy. first off, as far as the charges, you have laid them out. you've got the first-degree murder charge that involves the terrorism. i know we're going to talk about that. you've got the two second-degree murder charges, a slew of gun

charges, and then the use of what we have been showing, and what we have been showing for a week is the fake new jersey i.d. which apparently he presented to the hostel. that's the information we have as far as what's in here in the charges. almost nobody has the ability to carry a gun in manhattan, so he was always going to face gun charges plus the ghost gun charges, that's been added to this as well. just so people understand how we got to this point. some reporting from our colleague adam reese, he's reporting that, yes, to your point, he's expected to waive that extradition, definitely waive the preliminary hearing in pennsylvania. those two court proceedings scheduled to begin at 8:30 and 9:00 a.m. it's conceivable, because there really isn't a lot that has to be done in pennsylvania, and he could be in a car, presumably with nypd detectives and members of the d.a.'s office, on his way to new york city, by mid-morning tomorrow, and then at that point, they're going to want to get them here, get him in a courtroom, arraign him, and that will happen at the downtown state court, which is in lower

manhattan. >> let's talk about the terrorism charge. this piqued my interest yesterday, and i'm curious to go in a little farther on it. michael, you cosponsored or did sponsor this legislation that added this on. why does first-degree murder here in new york have a terrorism element? >> well, it was at the time, it was really only limited to whether or not there was kind of a other crimes, but didn't include terrorism itself. terrorism now comes in after 9/11. i sponsored the bill, ironically enough, governor tacky put a bill in in the spring of 2001. talk about being pressured, amazing. we passed in the senate, didn't pass in the assembly, attack happens, legislature comes back, and one joint session, and we pass it. the intent there as why i sponsored this, obviously it was in response to the attack, but was also to try to recognize

that this type of violence that was motivated by a need to change a government perspective, change a policy, that this could never be tolerated in the state of new york, and we should have the top penalty, which at this point, is parole, but back then, we had the death penalty. >> this was in the after match of 9/11 which was a giant terrorist attack. thousands of people died. it was genuinely terrifying, and we're still terrified of it in this country. i struggle to see how this single murder of a single person in the hours before the sun came up when there was another person standing by them, that person was able to walk away, how this single individual murder can be considered terrorism, and why second-degree murder, which carries a maximum of life in prison, why that would not be enough. >> at the time, we had the death

penalty that was later struck down. that was the intent you applied the death penalty to the act of terrorism. it's not what's in the law, it's more about what's not in the law. we didn't put a requirement that there be mass fatalities or mass casualties. we specifically said that if your motivation is to change the policy, practice of government, and you're going to use a violent method, remember, it's not just murder, murder, rape, arson a whole bunch of other things that you can use, and it's meant to coerce a unit of government or a unit of -- we say at the time, a unit of policy, that should be prohibits under the law. >> what you said is what his lawyers, karyn friedman say, the new york state court of appeals 12 years ago basically told the bronx attorney's office that a gang that terrorizes, the way we think of terrorism, a

neighborhood, that you can't charge this. so a little girl was murdered, a young man was paralyzed, new york state court of appeals says no. this was intended for, and they cited the state legislature, 9/11, the oklahoma city bombing, the 1993 bombing, the students who were shot at and one was murdered on the brooklyn bridge. and appellate courts since have also said that, no, it's really not intended for anything other than those very significant. i'll be interested to see what evidence because he will be arraigned and we will know more. >> i guess the reason i'm so piqued by this is that i wonder if it's a slippery slope when you're attaching a terrorism charge to individual acts, and yes, we're going to get more information, and maybe more details on what he was writing, and what he intended to incite here, but i wonder -- there's a little bit of discomfort i have with the idea of charging this one person with an act of terrorism.

it feels like you can use that in a very broad way in other potential scenarios. >> i think just keeping an eye on the law here, we are talking about a homicide or a very serious offense to mike's point. whether this law and we have been having the debate, the debate will be continued to be had, whether this law is applicable, we were speaking about it off air, all to be determined, and my opinion on the matter is irrelevant. i will tell you in law enforcement circles, i think there's a struggle here with the idea of what we saw this year politically in this country, two assassination attempts on trump, what we have seen in this particular killing where people are starting to believe in society. you and i have spoken about this. the only way i can solve my problem is with violence, and the only way i can impact change in something, whether it be health insurance, political whatever it is is through these specific acts of violence. the potential for that to get

out of control is very high, so maybe it's a law that needs to be, you know, redrawn up, is there an update, does the state or federal government knee to look at this and say, is there a new law or something to talk about. whenever somebody tries to attack ideology, and this is why i wonder where the moral in this case, which you're referring to, is maybe a bit different. >> i think that's really interesting that people are believing they need to take things into their own hands because the system is no longer working. on the flip side of that, you have daniel penny who took a matter into his own hands, there was a homeless guy scaring people on the train. he had suffered a mental illness. the city didn't do anything for him. he was out there struggling on his own, and in the moment where it felt unsafe on a train, daniel penny decided to take matters into his own hands and put him in a choke hold. a choke hold that prosecutors here in new york argued went on for too long, and ultimately

killed the man. is there an interesting, i guess, not parallel, or maybe parallel here regarding what we're seeing with the shooting of brian thompson, the unitedhealthcare ceo, and what daniel penny did? >> i don't see a parallel there. i think it is very sad that people who are basically calling this alleged shooter, mr. mangione, sort of a hero, because he shot and killed, shot in the back a health care ceo. >> people called daniel penny a hero for trying to keep the subway safe. >> there are different facts lying in wait. >> there are different facts, but there's a belief that the system is not working, so luigi mangione took into his own hands. >> when daniel penny got on the subway, was he expecting i hope somebody comes at me. that's why the parallels. but don't necessarily apply. if the facts are true as

prosecutors and police have stated here, then i think as it refers to mangione, there's absolute premeditation sfl there are three differences, one, and the daniel penny case, article 35, of the penal law allows you to use physical force, deadly physical force to stop deadly physical force being used against somebody else. that's in statute. the fact that you had a gang in shootout, they may have found that the overall community was frightened but that wasn't the intent of the gang war. here, what if a member of al qaeda comes and assassinates a high ranking official, would that not be considered terrorism? sure it would be, and that was in my mind when we enacted the statute. >> it's a designated terror group. all right, i could have this

conversation for a lot longer. we could bring kyle rittenhouse into this. i'm getting the wrap in my ear. we've got other news to get to. let's do it again. everybody, thank you very much. coming up, can the supreme court save tiktok? what justices just agreed to do that could reverse the social media company's u.s. ban. fist, though, my next guest calls it syria's now or never moment after the collapse of syria's regime. what will emerge out of damascus, and what will it mean for us here in the united states. ere in the united states (♪♪) new alka-seltzer plus cold or flu fizzy chews. chew. fizz. feel better fast. no water needed. new alka-seltzer plus fizzychews.

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israel has issued another evacuation order in central gaza ahead of a new idf offensive. at the same time, a cease fire deal could be soon at hand. negotiates say israel and hamas are close ton a agreement with cia director bill burns arriving in doha to seal the deal. on "morning joe," national security adviser jake sullivan described the talks like this. >> on the details, they are working through the names of hostages who would come out in the first phase, the names of the prisoners who would be released as part of the exchange, and then some specific details about the disposition of israeli forces during the cease fire. so small details, but those can be worked out. >> joining us now, counsel on foreign relations, senior fellow of middle east and africa studies, stephen cook. good to have you. >> thanks for having me.

we have talked about being close to a cease fire deal a number of times in the past. do you see this situation, this moment as different? >> well, it is different in a couple of ways. the first is that the israelis have basically severed gaza from its battle front in lebanon, and the cease fire in lebanon, hamas really basically ds alone and needs to make a decision whether it wants to keep on fighting or does it also want to cut a deal to save its for the future. there does seem to be movement among the hamas leadership. they have softened their position on the disposition of israeli forces in the gaza strip post a cease fire. that's good news. in israel, prime minister netanyahu is popular because of the success israel has had in lebanon, as well as gaza and iran. he has a broader coalition.

he controls 68 seats in the legislature, rather than 64. he's less vulnerable to those in his coalition, who are opposed to a cease fire. >> israel's diplomatic position or public relations position at the very least around the west, especially is pretty bad. there's a lot of anger toward israel. what is its current position within the middle east after all of the changes we have seen, both the war and gaza, the taking out of so many senior leaders in hezbollah and now assad being gone, how do they stand? >> yeah, israel's strategic position in the middle east is far better than it was on october 6th, 2023, the day before hamas's attack. its primary adversary, hezbollah, and hamas, have been devastated by israel's military. iran is now defenseless against israel's air attacks, should israel undertake attacks against

iran. so it is a much changed geopolitical position for the israelis in the middle east, and their diplomatic relations with arab states are held up. they're under pressure, but they have held up. this is different from the west where israel has had much more trouble with countries like spain and ireland and norway, even great britain, which has symbolically held back some weapons component to israel. so overall, the israelis are in a much better place than they were before the hamas attack strategically. >> i want to get back to syria. but let's talk about iran for a second. what might they do next? what are the options on the table for them? >> the iranians are in a tough spot. they have been devastated by essentially israeli strikes that have left them open to further strikes. and that was the message that the israelis sent, that we're going it take out your air defense systems, and the next time we're going to take out your nuclear facilities and your

economic infrastructure. so the iranians have a number of options. they could double down on iraqi militias, but they don't seem to be inclined to fight israel at the moment. they could move forward with the nuclear program. whether they weaponize or not remains an open question. they seem to be determined to move forward, at the same time, the iranian president has been making overtures to the west about negotiation. all in all, though, the iranians must believe the only option is for the nuclear program. >> i wonder if the alternative is sa normalizing of relations, stabilizing of relations because of the interests of saudi arabia, of the qataris, the turks of israel, of egypt, they do sort of align in a desire to keep things less volatile. the big wrinkle is what might happen in syria next with bashar al assad gone, is this going to

be a power vacuum where isis can reconstitute or the rebel group led by al gilani is not as moderate as he's claiming it is? >> yeah, on your first point with regard to iran, there's a lot of impetus within the region on the part of the saudis, emirates and others for deescalation. that's going to be up to the iranians and israelis. the israelis have said they're done, as long as the iranians don't liate. when it comes to syria, in its very early days, we know the group is like the islamic state and al qaeda thrive on power vacuums and instability. that makes the american mission of 900 service personnel more urgent than it was two months ago, in order to make sure that isis and al qaeda don't come back, and don't threaten american friends and interest around the renal, gion and even united states once again.

he has said some good things, but his break from the islamic state has not been really about issues, more about politics in the jihadi ecosystem. much remains to be seen about what his intentions are. it's worthwhile to be skeptical about what he and his group say they are going to do in syria. >> stephen a. cook, thank you so much for joining us. i have been desperate to get you on this week. i appreciate you working with us. >> thank you so much, appreciate it. still ahead, the fed just cut interest rates for a third and final time this year. what it signals about the economy just as donald trump gets set for his second term. first, though, the state of texas is suing a new york doctor if the case goes to the supreme court, what could happen to abortion access nationwide? uld abortion access nationwide liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved

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donald trump chose man for a top policy job in his new administration who publicly advocated for a national abortion ban with criminal penalties for women and doctors. hard line conservative activist ed martin will serve as the next chief of staff for the office of management and budget, a role with potential impact on how federal funds are allocated for programs related to women's health or reproductive rights.

this as texas has now launched a lawsuit against a new york doctor for prescribing abortion pills to a woman in the dallas area. it is the first legal challenge to shield laws which were passed in democratic states to protect physicians after roe v. wade was overturned, and it is a case that could put nationwide access to abortion back in front of the supreme court. joining us now, msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin, am i right to say this is something that could have consequences for access to everybody in this country? >> it could, if it forces the issue about the fda's legalization of mifepristone. one of the things this physician might say in her own defense is that the fda is the only entity as an arm of the federal government who can regulate who has access to medication abortion, it's not for states to regulate. that's one possible issue she

can use to defend herself. another possibility is she can defend herself on the basis of the shield law, saying texas has no right under the constitution to try and civilly sue her or prosecute her. right now it's a civil suit. because in new york her conduct was perfectly legal and she was in new york when she engaged in xton to sue this new york doctor, that he wants to force high court because when there's a state against state issue, where does it go? it goes to the supreme court. >> and this is something that the anti-abortion right has been eagerly anticipating for months, several months ago, almost a year ago, "the new york times" covered the sort of collision course between states like texas that have very stringent abortion bans and states like new york and 17 others that have these shield laws. in that article, there was a doctor from texas right to life who was interviewed saying essentially we are casting about for just the right case to

bring, and based on how this case came into being, if you read the complaint, you can see that it looks as if the patient's boyfriend communicated with authorities when he discovered that his girlfriend had had a medication abortion and that's how this case came into being. it looks like this is the test case that ken paxton and the antiabortion right has been casting about for a long time. >> i wonder if that guy is still her boyfriend, number one, number two, i don't know if you know that. number two, is there a -- do you have a sense of how the supreme court might fall on this? >> i think it depends on exactly how the issue percolates to the supreme court. i think one possibility here is that they come to a little bit of a compromise, right, that they allow new york to protect its doctors. they allow texas to regulate abortion within its border. that means that a texas doctor can't prescribe for a texas woman something that a new york doctor can.

>> the other case that's going to go in front of the supreme court soon is the case of tiktok and whether it should remain banned in this country. they decided to take it up pretty quickly. what's going on here? >> one of the things that is going on here is how quickly the supreme court wants to rule on the tiktok ban. >> what does that say to you? >> it says to me that there's a possibility of a reprieve. at least they're not going to let it go into effect without giving tiktok a fair hearing. if you contrast that with where we were a year ago, tried to upset get a special hearing, it took two months, who gets relief in an expeditious way and who does not. >> what is tick tok's argument, free speech? >> that content creditors deserve an opportunity to put their speech on the platforms that they want to. >> do you know how they might be received? >> i don't know how they will be received, and certainly --

>> i'm asking you to be a mind reader today. >> a prognosticator. >> yeah. >> one of the things that i think is interesting with this court, there's not a lot of aptitude with technology, you can see that again and again in some of the arguments that have led us to this point. it will be interesting to see whether the justices really even understand how tiktok works, what its audiences are, and why congress believes it poses a danger. >> lisa rubin, thank you very much. coming up next, what the last rate cut of the year tells us about what kind of economy donald trump will face. economy nadold trump will face getting around but i want to live in my home. i can do it with the help of a barber, personal shopper, an exercise buddy. life's good. when you have a plan. ♪♪ it's time to feed the dogs real food in the right amount. a healthy weight can help dogs live a longer and happier life. the farmer's dog makes weight management easy with fresh food pre-portioned for your dog's needs. it's an idea whose time has come.

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the federal reserve cut interest rates for the third time this year, another quarter of a point, putting it now a full percentage point below where it stood for much of this year, but the dow isn't reacting that well. take a look at this right now, down, i believe, 900 points, 948 points, that's 2% as of today. joining us now, nbc news senior business correspondent, christine romans, a lot to talk about. >> sure. >> do you want to talk about it? why the stock market is going nuts? >> because of the fed. they had signalled four rate cuts, now signaling two more rate cuts next year, and they wanted more rate cuts, why do companies like rate cuts because they make more money that way. >> they're borrowing money cheaper. so they were disappointed in that. look overall, the economy is doing well. the number of times jay powell said something to the extent of

the economy is strong, it's remarkable, it's going well, i'm very optimistic about next year, all of those things mean you don't have to cut interest rates to nudge the economy along like that. >> does this mean it's a temporary kind of disgruntled blip and everyone is going to back out? if the economy is strong, people are make k money. you don't want to tank something that's doing well. >> how many record highs have we seen all yearlong. the s&p 500 which is a broader stock market gauge than just the 30 stocks in the dow. the s&p 500 companies, that's up like 87% over the past five years. you have seen such a big run. there are always, especially at the end of the year, people looking for the disgruntled reason to take profits, i would say, this could be a freakout or over reaction, who knows. the fed chief is saying the economy is great. also pointing out that inflation is not back where they want it. inflation is still a part of the story here. >> they don't want to make it worse. >> there's a little wrinkle in there. i keep using the word wrinkle. it's my word du jour today, the

long-term interest rate outlook, they believe it's going to be at 3%, instead of 2.5%? >> yes, so they're trying to look out. i'll tell you the fed chief did say it's very hard to look out two and three years, and they're really trying to be as very near term folks as they can. they will be data dependent, all next year. the conventional wisdom is they may not cut rates in january, and may only cut rates a couple of times next year, and that will keep mortgage rates where they are, close to where they are, car loans, all of that stuff. that can be a cooling effect. >> and we have been watching to see if donald trump reacts to this. we know how he feels about the fed, the desire he has had in the past. and also to get involved in things. >> they like it when the fed is cutting interest rates. concerned about goosing the economy too much, and which would be bad for inflation. the economy is strong. we'll see if there's a rumble ahead between donald trump one

sided and jay powell. >> rumble, wrinkle, we've got good words today. >> words du jour. >> chris. i'm so great at french. christine romans, thank you very much, and that is going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts after this quick break. is quickk ♪ ♪ holiday memories made by alexis brought to you by etsy. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. and adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for type 1 diabetes or children. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take if you or your family had mtc, men 2,

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