good to be with you. i'm katy tur. luigi mangione landed by nypd helicopter back in manhattan this afternoon shackled, wearing a prison jump suit, an orange one, and flanked by law enforcement. you can see him right here. mangione was taken from this helipad in lower manhattan, straight to federal court where the southern district of new york added to the slew of state

murder charges mangione was already facing, including murder one. now mangione also faces two counts of stalking, murder through use of a firearm, and a firearms offense. these are federal charges. all connected to the killing of unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson. the unsealed federal indictment offers new details, including quotes from several handwritten pages, in which prosecutors allege he expressed hostility to the health insurance industry and wealthy executives in particular. on august 15th, the indictment says he wrote the target is insurance because it checks every box. and on october 22nd, the indictment alleges he picked his moment, 1.5 months, this investor conference is a true windfall, and most importantly, the message becomes self-evident. that same entry describes a plan to whack the ceo of one of the insurance companies at its

investor conference. all right. let's get an update from what's happening from the people that we have covering this story. joining us now, erin mclaughlin, former mant district attorney and new york law school professor, rebecca roiphe, and policy director with our streets criminal justice and civil liberty team, jillian snyder. erin, i'll beginning with you, bring us up to speed as to what's going on in the courtroom right now? >> reporter: we understand from an nbc producer inside the courtroom, writing notes in realtime that the hearing is now underway, having begun moments ago, our adam reese, nbc producer writing he entered tan slacks, a white shirt under a black v neck sweater. he looks clean cut. he is seated between both attorneys. he is now facing four additional federal counts, two counts of stalking, murder through use of

a firearm, as well as a firearms offense. those federal charges in addition to 11 state charges, including murder in the first-degree. in a statement last night, we heard from his attorney hitting back at those additional federal charges in particular saying the federal government's reported decision to pile on top of an already over charged first-degree murder and state terror case is highly unusual and raises serious constitutional and statutory double jeopardy concerns. we are ready to fight these charges in whatever courts they are brought again. that hearing is now underway. it's a federal hearing. it's unclear when he'll be arraigned on state charges. >> let's get into that. it was surprising to find out that the feds wanted to charge him as well. the charges in the state case were pretty serious. second-degree murder here in new york, which carries a maximum of

lifetime in prison. also first-degree murder, which has a terrorism element attached to it. why would the feds want to get involved? >> i think the feds are probably thinking about the seriousness of the offense and also about the federal national interests here that are involved. when you think about what's really at stake, what's at stake is the sentence. here in new york, we don't have the death penalty and i wonder seriously, about what, you know, their consideration might be, which is if we charge this in the way we're doing, we might be able to make it so he's facing a death sentence. >> how? explain that to me. >> because in new york the death penalty has been eliminated. >> why if it's a federal charge in new york, why are you able to get to the death penalty? >> the federal government has the death penalty while the state government does not. and this this claim that there is a double jeopardy situation is not actually accurate because what double jeopardy prevents is the same sovereign from charging

the conduct twice, and when you have new york and you have the federal government, those are two separate sovereigns. it really doesn't implicate the double jeopardy provision until the constitution and the federal government has discretion about whether to charge somebody who is also been charged in the state, and here i think the real consideration is this is something that the federal government cares about. it's an important matter. and also it's possible we could impose a charge the state can't. >> you get that if the police and investigators allege that you can -- you were intending to intimidate a civilian population. do you see that that might hold? do you believe that that holds for what luigi mangione did? >> it's seldom that new york state will charge murder in the first degree. we typically see that reserved for murder of a first responder, a police officer, a judge, a

witness to the crime that may be testifying. it's rare that we see it being used in the furtherance of terrorism. the actions taken by the suspect did equate to terroristic actions in that they instilled fear across the country. i think the murder one charge. >> how did it instill fear. it's a targeted killing. there was another person standing right there in the video, the surveillance video. that person walked off, ran off. that person was not targeted at all. the got one guy and left. how do you convince a jury that the entire population was scared? >> i think the man hunt, it was on the news all day, every outlet was covering it. when you see that premeditation, that counter surveillance, that type of targeting, that does scare people. >> one of the parallels people are making is a case related to gang violence in new york where

terrorism charges were brought but they were ultimately dismissed because the judge found it didn't apply. the law was too tailored, to narrow to apply to gang members who were shooting people on the street in the city of new york. that is terrifying to know that there's a gang out there that's, you know, got guns and is willy nilly shooting people. that i understand to be scary, but that didn't hold. is this one going to hold? >> i don't know. i think part of the ambiguity in the law, which prosecutors understand, who does it mean by a group of civilians. if it means like everybody, then actually, i think it's a stretch. i think it's a little bit hard to say that the general population was afraid. i do think that the population of ceos in, you know, these companies that are controversial could have been afraid and probably were afraid at this moment. and so if that can count as the community, then i think it could instill fear. the question is what does that

statute mean when it says the population or it says civilians, does it include this smaller group of ceos? you know, i think it would be reasonable to be afraid that there would be targeted copy cat or by this person or by an organized group. >> don't you have to prove intent as well? they have to prove it was his intention to intimidate and scare that population, not that the results of it weren't what ended up scaring people. >> and that's why his writings are key. part of what you were quoting from the federal indictment and the state indictment is a little bit less, you know, sort of forthcoming in what exactly it's going o prove. like that is a key into what he was thinking and what he wanted. >> if what he wanted was to instill fear, change, make the government change its policies or make this particular group of people afraid, intimidated, then those writings become so central to that prosecution. >> the judge in this case, the

federal judge has read mr. mangione his rights. he's read him all of the counts that he's accused of. and he has asked him, do you understand these charges, do you understand what you are accused of. mr. mangione says yes. the next hearing will be in 14 days. he is going to remain in custody, no surprise there, unless he is indicted. he has already been indicted. what does that mean? >> maybe indicted federally. >> january 18th, it says, is the next hearing. that's a saturday. we might be getting -- these details might be clarified. we're reading off an updated document that's happening in realtime. there's going to be some clarity here. the government is arguing for detention, also no surprise, this is not somebody who would be released on bail. no circumstance. does it annoy state prosecutors, now that the feds have gotten

involved? >> i don't think it annoys them exactly. >> does it complicate their case? >> exactly. it complicates their case. there are two parallel proceedings going forward, and there's a question about the order and which one he faces first and how they proceed, and that's something that has to be negotiated and i think that's complicated. usually prosecutors in these two different offices, especially the southern district of new york and manhattan are used to working together and working that out. >> i agree. i have so many cases in the bronx, we were trying someone at the state level because say we apprehended someone with a firearm, and they had previous firearm arrests, the federal government would step in and do a parallel trial on them. >> what did you think of the way he was brought in, helicopter, flown from pennsylvania, not driven, then by helicopter. it was quite a spectacle. i haven't seen a perp walk, if you will, of that nature with the spectacle surrounding it since dominique strasz khan here in new york.

>> i kind of expected them to fly him because the driving could have caused an issue. it was a several hour drive. you're going from one state to another, you would have to have federal, state, and local municipal agencies and also there's a concern because he's a growing fan base and that was taken into consideration. >> how do the police deal with that going forward? as we understand it, there are protesters outside of the courtroom, protesting his detention. protesting these charges against him. he is seen by some now as something of a folk hero. people so angry at the system. angry specifically at health care companies for the way they believe they're treated. they're propping up luigi mangione as somebody who was a vigilante in their minds who did the right thing. i'm not agreeing with any of that. i'm saying that's what's happening out there. >> i have seen so many memes, luigi mangione was with me in

los angeles. they're a saich vior for him. he has been indicted at the state level. he'll have to get formally arraigned. he'll have to be ported for that. >> you have to pause and say how disturbing that is. you can have sympathy for certain kinds of defendants. because of the person that this person killed, they are a murderer. alleged, they are an alleged murderer, and this ceo may have done whatever he did in his life, but he was a father of two children, and he's a human being, and this is somebody who's accused of murder. >> erin mclaughlin, you're standing outside there for us. can you give us a little bit of the color of what it's like outside of that courtroom? >> reporter: well, right now, what i'm staring at is a very large media presence outside of the courthouse, waiting to see

if we are going to hear from his attorneys, from his representatives. at this point it seems we are not also waiting to see if we're going to hear from federal prosecutors. we know that we have already heard from the manhattan district attorney, alvin bragg, in a separate press conference on a separate matter, he did reference today's proceedings saying it is possible that the state case will be tried in parallel with the federal case. there are still outstanding questions in terms of how all of that is going to work, but right now, in terms of what we're waiting for outside the courthouse, we're waiting to see if the federal prosecutors have anything to say, and there are some crowds gathering, some individuals athering, more wondering what's going on at this point. i haven't seen any signs of outward support for mangione in terms of what we saw in pennsylvania. >> okay. i want to add a little bit of color from inside of this

hearing. karen agnifalo, you might remember her as a guest on the show, when we were talking about the prosecutions into donald trump, she says, she wants clarity on why there's a federal case, and a state case at the same time. she said it's highly nsh. -- unusual. had no idea this was coming. i don't think they even knew and we were prepared for a 2:00 p.m. arraignment with another judge. the theory o.d.f the d.a. murde charge, talking about terror, we're prepared to talk about, and now there's stalking an individual. there are two different cases. she's wondering if this is, as you said, the government looking to make him eligible for the death penalty. she wants clarity on that. you got to imagine that it would be a surprise for her to wake up this morning, and to find this federal indictment and to think that you're now -- you now might

have to prepare to not just keep your client out of jail but keep your client alive. >> absolutely. it's surprising. it's unusual. but the idea that the federal government has to provide you with this information is also not accurate. you know, this is not the way our system works. these decisions, these discretionary decisions are so complex. there's no way in which the federal government needs to explain itself in this particular way. we can speculate, and i think it's important to speculate, and i think he's asking important questions. >> she says in all of my years, i have never seen anything like this. they are adjourned, we're going to wait for the next hearing. it's on a saturday. january 18th is not the right time. >> the federal court is not open on a saturday. >> there must be a typo on dates. have you ever seen anything like this? >> not on a case like this.

i have seen it in gun cases where it was gang related. there was a task force operating, where we had state and federal involvement. after d.a. bragg announced on tuesday what he was intending to charge the suspect with, then a subsequent federal indictment was rather surprising. >> what is the defense that karen might present before she took on this case, she went on the record saying that she thought the only defense was insanity. >> insanity, it's a defense, it can also be a mitigation. it can be used as a way of showing this particular defendant lacked the mental capacity or the qualities of mind that would have been required to have the intent reck sit for these particular crimes, and that can mitt game them. in sentencing it can igate them. >> based on what we saw thus far, i think it's going to be

somewhat challenging, there was so much preplanning involved. >> they're going to have to prove a state of mind was not well. >> the six months must be key because obviously yes, there was a lot of advanced planning. >> let's find out exactly what happened in the six months where he broke contact with family and friends and went dark. what exactly was going on with luigi mangione who by all other accounts before that seemed like a young man with a promising future who came from a happy and outwardly seeming stable financially speaking at least, and emotionally sable home. we don't know the details. maybe we'll learn more as we go deeper into the case. lady, thank you so much for joining us, and being here as we were watching this. erin mclaughlin, thank you as well. we're waiting for lisa rubin. when she comes out of the courtroom, we're going to go to her. she was inside. she can give us a little bit more color about what it was like like. what a california man told

the wisconsin school shooter that's led to his arrest. what they say he did. plus, what will happen in georgia's election interference case against donald trump and his allies now that the entire prosecution team has been disqualified. first, though, elon musk and donald trump have blown up the bipartisan debt limit deal. the republican speaker negotiated, what republicans are now saying and what they can do to avoid a government shutdown, which is just 33 hours from now. we're back in 90 seconds. ly, wee care of every kid at st. jude like they are our kid. because at st. jude, we believe all children deserve a chance to live. but one in five kids in the us still won't survive cancer. and globally, that number is even higher. in this family, we won't stop until no child dies from cancer. this holiday season, join our st. jude family. we need you. please donate now.

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33 hours, in fact, a little bit less until the government shuts down. lawmakers have until midnight tomorrow to come up with a funding bill. as of now, it looks pretty bleak. yesterday's version of the bill, a compromised stopgap, which included 100 billion in aid, economic assistance for farmers, a federal commitment to rebuild the francis scott key bridge and a pay raise for members of congress is dead after elon musk and then donald trump tor trump. if there's going to be a shut down, we're going to start it with a democratic president. nbc news capitol correspondent, ryan nobles, and msnbc political

contributor, the man who could have bet you a million dollars this was going to happen, jake sherman, and won. garrett, talk about your conversation with donald trump. >> donald trump is clearly unhappy with speaker johnson, and very unhappy with this bill. in this late hour he's making it more complicated for johnson to get something across the finish line by insisting on something that wasn't really part of the discussion until perhaps 36 hours ago, and that's either lifting, suspending or getting rid of entirely the debt ceiling. this is not that conversation or at least it hasn't been. the debt ceiling isn't expected to be approached again until sometime next summer. but that took up the bulk of my conversation with the president-elect this morning with him saying he would like to get rid of it entirely. that's the smartest thing congress could do, and democrats talked about getting rid of it in the past are serious about it now, he said he would lead the charge to do so. that's had a mixed reception on capitol hill today, even from some of the democrats who have

said they wanted to get that done, in part because it just continues to complicate the math and fitting all the pieces together that would be necessary to get something, anything across the finish line preferably by the deadline, both of which seem very much in the air right now. >> ryan, give us the status of what's happening on capitol hill, what lawmakers are saying, what you're hearing today. >> for the most part, the house republicans which are in the driver's seat to begin the process of getting to a place to find a way to keep the government from getting shut down are holed up inside speaker johnson's office all day long and are not communicating what type of progress they're making. they're also not communicating with democrats. there seems to be little communication with their senate colleagues as well. it's almost as if if you read it or interpret what's happening behind closed doors, they can't come up with an agreement inside that room that they can agree

on, much less one that would then need to get at least a mode modeof support from democrats in the house. this is the problem house republicans find themselves in as they blow up this deal. the reason mike johnson crafted the bill he crafted to begin with was because he knew that it required bipartisan support in order to pass, especially in in form of congress. yes, republicans won the election, but they have not taken over control of the senate yet. that requires there to be some negotiation in order to get to this place. it's left speaker johnson in a difficult position because the elon musk and donald trump's of the world are asking him to find a bill that the vast majority of republicans support and will get enough democratic votes, and right now that legislation doesn't exist. listen to what john kennedy who's a senator explains the position mike johnson finds himself in. >> i'm not riticizing anybody,

but mike johnson's problem is he has some chickens, and they wander off and he can't catch them. there's one person who can catch them, and that's donald trump. we have to have ten democrats, and they're either going to do it or they're not. they can sit back and sip their coffee, and let the government shut down. >> reporter: those free range chickens have power, katy, because the margins are so tight in the house of representatives, and not only have they put this situation in peril. right now, barring something major, a government shutdown seems almost inevitable, but they have put speaker johnson's future at risk. there's real questions as to how long he can stay on the job as a result of what we have seen play out in the last hours. >> i have real deja vu, you and

i have talked about this over and over again, over the past eight years now. there's not just what ryan was saying about speaker johnson's fate, and marjorie taylor greene set out an e-mail to her congressional list, asking the public if they would want elon musk as the next speaker of the house. take that as you will. they can't come to an agreement to keep the government open, and yet they still think they're not going to be blamed for it, that it's going to be the democrats' problem? >> i don't know where to begin, katy. they will be blamed, of course, because trump rolled a grenade into this process, on wednesday, ahead of a friday deed line. there's a lot to be said about how mike johnson handled the situation. he crafted the bill as you would have to be watching congress for five minutes to know that that bill wouldn't fly. there was no chance the bill was going to get passed. it was too big, too ambitious,

and too filled with stuff to get through. listen, this is giving me flashbacks, i'm sure garrett and ryan agree, you certainly agree, katy, 2017 to 2021, because donald trump would in the 11th hour say that a bill that his party, oftentimes his own aides crafted that was no good and he wouldn't sign it. let's separate this for a second. if trump wanted a debt ceiling increase here, he could have gotten one. it wouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility. to say he wants a debt limit increase on wednesday, and thursday, they say to garrett, get rid of it all together, 20, 30 hours, you know, 35, 40 hours before the deadline is not how things work. let me start with this, i don't know that there are the votes to lift the debt ceil to go begin with. i don't think there are the votes to abolish the debt limit, one day before the government funding deadline when the debt

ceiling doesn't come due until june. we're really in a jam here. and the speaker is in an incredibly perilous situation with his job, quite frankly, on the line, according to everyone we talked to up here. we are, katy, remember, we are 15 days ahead of the speaker's election, and if i were mike johnson, and i know that they are, but mike johnson and haze team have reason, have cause to be concerned. >> what's going to happen in those 15 days, do you have a good sense, jake or ryan, about where this is headed? whichever one wants to raise their hand and take that bullet? >> is it okay to cry on television? can we just all cry together. >> we can head to christmas break. >> i'll say this, katy, i think that, you know, there are a million different ways that this plane could ultimately land, and

there even is the possibility that in 20 minutes they walk out of that room and say, hey, we got something we think can pass and we're going to put it on the floor. that exists as a possible solution here. there's really only one person that's dictating the way that this story ends, and that's donald trump, and donald trump has got to give mike johnson license to negotiate with democrats to put them in a position that they feel comfortable voting for a piece of legislation. the democrats i have talked to, and jake has talked to many of them in a similar fashion that have said, you know, a skinny cr, we're open to. we want disaster relief. we want a farm bill. we need more than that. there were a lot of things that we were asking for, like i had one democrat tell me today that they'd consider the funding for the francis scott key bridge falls under the banner of disaster relief. they think that is a necessity in these negotiations. so, you know, donald trump is the only one that can give johnson the license to make those deals with democrats, and

if he endorses a plan, republicans will vote for it and this will be over with. >> i'm sorry, garrett, i know you thought you were getting out of this, he's invoked donald trump, that passes off the baton to you, my friend? >> reporter: yeah, look, and this is part of the unsolvable nature of this problem, donald trump and elon musk who have both been vocally against the original bill want different things here. musk wants to cut spending. he wants all of these other things including things like the key bridge not to be included. he does not want that top line number to be bigger than necessary. >> how do you pay for a bridge to be built and help people whose lives have been destroyed by disaster, and what do you do about the farmers? these are individuals who have real stakes. >> i understand that. if you're elon musk, that's maryland owes problem to solve the bridge, not the federal government's problem. if you want to radically cut trillions of dollars from the federal government you've got to make deep cuts that will in many cases, hurt individuals. this is the unsolvable nature of

this problem, you cannot keep everybody happy and cut everything at the same time. it's part of the reason that trump's ask on getting rid of the debt ceiling is a real thing, it's a theoretical problem, a future problem that could be solved here, sort of squaring the circle with what musk wants and what trump wants is much more challenging than both of them agreeing to a bill they both like for slightly different reasons? >> i'm really happy that i decided to spend the last couple of months, reading an 800 page fictional fictionalized version of the french revolution. it really did teach me a lot of what this moment -- >> that's ominous. >> hopefully not with the ugly ier details of the french revolution, the infighting and paranoia, it's very interesting. i know you didn't think i was going there. garrett haake, ryan nobles, jake sherman, appreciate it. we're going to go back to the

courtroom in lower manhattan. the federal courtroom where luigi mangione was just arraigned on federal charges. there's karen agnifalo, the lawyer for luigi mangione, she's on crutches. are they talking right now, let's go ahead and listen. >> thank you so much. listen. >> thank you so much >> she got there quickly and said a brief remark. that's our producer adam reese who's sitting right there. i'm sure he'll be giving that update in a moment. don't go anywhere, we'll have a reporter who was inside the courtroom in just a moment. we'll be right back. oom in justt we'll be right back. prilosec knows, for a fire...

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joining us now, lisa rubin, our legal analyst who was inside of the courtroom with luigi mangione. lisa, thank you for being here. tell us what it was like. >> katy, first before i tell you what the inside of the courtroom is like, i want to show you the outside of the courtroom. our producer was telling me in all of the time she has been down here she's never seen so many young people come to watch a court proceeding as she has today. i'm going to ask our camera man to turn around behind me. this is columbus park, a park

adjacent to the courthouse. on the jungle gym, there's a young boy carrying a paper bag, you can't see what it says, it says free luigi, he had been standing on the jungle gym, holding up, almost like john cusack in "say anything." there were onlookers, look to go see why he was here and what he was doing. it speaks to how much this case is capturing the attention of people all throughout the country. now, as to what was going on in the courtroom itself, this was a very short proceeding, nonetheless, sort of an interesting and important one. luigi mangione entered the courthouse as any criminal defendant would from a side door but when he entered, he was not wearing the orange jump suit with doc on the back that he left pennsylvania. he was in a white starch shirt, blue blazer, pair of khakis and

clean shaven, almost looked like a young man attending a church service rather than a criminal defendant in perhaps the most high profile case in the country. he was read his rights, he appeared to nod when he was told that he had a right to a release, unless the judge found that there were no conditions that could secure the community and ensure the community would be safe. however, his lawyers did not apply for bail. they said they reserve the right to do so at a later time. that means luigi mangione tonight will be headed to federal custody, in all likelihood, the mdc in brooklyn, new york, and when and whether he'll be arraigned on state charges remains to be seen. his lauren, karen friedman agnifilo basically said in three decades of practice she has never seen anything as quote, highly unusual as this case has been where you've got the district attorney of manhattan yesterday holding a press conference to announce charges, and then today, on the eve of

coming to manhattan for what they thought this morning was a state court arraignment, to learn that luigi mangione would be transported here to federal court, first to fbi headquarters for processing and here to the federal courthouse behind me, she says some of the charges appear not only to overlap but to even be in conflict with each other. luigi mangione in state court is facing as you and i discussed a murder in the first-degree charge because it was allegedly in furtherance of terrorism. she said that stands in stark conflict with the charges he's facing in federal court, where he's accused of stalking an individual. essentially her message is you can't stalk an individual and have an intent to commit a murder with the intent to terrorize the entire community simultaneously. this case has double jeopardy issues which she seemed keen to discuss. the government said there's a time and place to discuss the legal issues. today was advising mangione of his rights and discussing

whether or not he would be held in detention at a later time and place. they're going to discuss whether the state court charges and the federal court charges are incompatible or whether those cases are proceed. >> that is an interesting point. stalking very terrorism charges. she was asking, according to our notes, and you can maybe bring us a little bit more detail about the death penalty. did she bring that up today? >> she said, and she said that, you know, this case presents one charge that carries, that is death eligible so to speak. as you and i were discussing the other day, in new york law, while the death penalty could be a punishment under the terms of the statute, new york has not used the death penalty for decades. there's an insinuation that the feds here in bringing their own set of charges might be motivated by the fact that one of these charges carries a potential death penalty. there was a period of time for decades where no federal prisoner received the death penalty even if some of them

were on death row. that changed during the trump administration where wechz saw department of justice execute prisoners. these were brought during the remnants of the biden administration has people scratching their head as to whether that's the motivation here, we don't know. what we're seeing is sort of a contest between the two prosecutorial offices here with jurisdiction in manhattan, the manhattan d.a.'s office, often times they will investigate the same crimes and ultimately one or the other will stand down, say you know what, we've got this. how about you guys, you take that. that, in fact, is sort of what happened in some of those early investigations of donald trump. you'll remember that cy vance was investigating financial improprieties by trump and the trump administration when he was told to stand down by the department of justice. that's what happened for some period of time until and around 2018, 2019, that office was

told, you know what, we're not going to go at this. you want to take a second look at it, go ahead, but here we've got both of these offices in fierce contention for control over this prosecution, and right now, we understand both of them intend to go forward. >> lisa rubin, thank you very much. joining us now, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, so ryan, you were prophetic, does it continue with my french revolution theme, that was a bad accent, have come to an agreement? >> reporter: listen, my last french class was my junior year of high school, and i don't want to tell you what i got on the final exam. we won't go down that road. we're getting murky signals that at least republicans feel that they have a piece of legislation that they can get to the floor that they believe has a path to becoming a piece of legislation that will prevent the government from shutting down torment. there's a lot of caveats in what

i'm telling you, and that is by design. there were several house republicans that left that meeting that we were talking about a few minutes ago, where they were huddled in a room with speaker johnson, trying to figure out a path forward. several emerged from the meeting and told reporters they have a deal, the vote could be on the floor as soon as this afternoon, and they believe it's enough to prevent a government shutdown. what we have not heard from yet is the democratic perspective on this. all of us up here on capitol hill are burning up the phones of our democratic sources to find out whether or not the democrats have been looped into this deal. we have not heard yet from senator schumer's office on the senate side. they are the majority. it would require a 60 vote threshold to pass in the senate, and we haven't heard from house democratic leadership, including hakeem jeffries who earlier in the day we were informed that there was no level of communication between the speaker's office and house democrats, so this is encouraging that members felt strongly enough that they could

come out and tell reporters that they think they have a deal. we don't know anything about the contents of this deal. we don't know whether democrats have agreed to this deal. this is the smoke may be white coming from the chimney, it's not pouring out of the chimney at this point. just fake puffs at this point. this does not happen, this will not happen without democratic votes. they have got to have democrats looped in. that's the next piece of the puzzle we have to figure out. >> maybe if speaker johnson got on the phone with donald trump, and maybe was able to convince him of one or two things. how skinny the bill was going to be, whether there's going to be disaster funding, economic aid for farmers, the cash for the francis scott key bridge, all the stuff that was tying things up for someone like elon musk who has donald trump's ear. is that going to remain? >> if he didn't do that, katy, we could be in the same situation we were in 24 hours

ago. >> very good point. ryan nobles, thank you very much. coming up, what a california man who was in contact with the wisconsin school shooter is accused of doing. what police say he did regarding that shooting. plus, what an appeals court just decided in donald trump's election interference case in georgia. what they said about this woman, d.a. fani willis. woman, d.a. fani willis mom where's my homework? mommy! hey hun - sometimes, you just need a moment. self-care has never been this easy. gummy vitamins from nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. i used to leak urine when i coughed, laughed or exercised. i couldn't even enjoy playing with my kids. i leaked too. i just assumed it was normal. then we learned about bulkamid. an fda approved non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years. it's been the best thing we've done for our families. call 800-983-0000

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a georgia appeal's courts has disqualified fani willis against donald trump and 14 of his allies, removing her and her entire office from the case. the three-judge panel found that willis' romantic relationship with special prosecutor nathan wade, you remember this, presented a significant appearance of impropriety that was enough to potentially take the case in the public eye.

the 2-1 decision reverses the decision of the trial judge who in march allowed fani willis to keep the case. but the panel did not dismiss the entire case which means that a new state prosecutor could take over if they choose to do so. willis' team has filed court papers, indicating an appeal of the georgia court decision to the georgia supreme court. and federal agents have detained a 20-year-old california man who they say was communicating with the alleged 15-year-old shooter in the wisconsin school shooting. they say he was communicating online with her just days before she killed a teacher, a classmate, and then herself. investigators now say the two may have been working together. joining us now, nbc news correspondent morgan chesky. what are the exact allegations? >> reporter: these allegations are interesting, certainly presents a new wrinkle in this ongoing investigation.

according to this emergency protective order, epo obtained by nbc news, this 20-year-old california man as you menaced had been communicating with that 15 year old female gunman for some time. contained in this order, katy, is also the admission by the 20-year-old man that he told the 15-year-old girl that he wanted to arm himself with explosives, a gun, and then target a government building. no specific building is named, but we do know that this all took place as she was allegedly plotting the shooting at the wisconsin school. still remains to be seen if any charges will come against this 20-year-old man who at least as of last check had been cooperating with fbi agents who did not necessarily take him into custody but merely questioned him after bringing him in temporarily from outside of his san diego home. in the meantime, we're also learning more about the two lives lost in this shooting. their names have been released, a teacher and a student, there

they are, 42-year-old erin west, and 42-year-old ruby rubi verg. updates, it took place in a second story classroom that was holding a kind of study hall with mixed grades and one of the others injured was in an adjacent room and caught by an errant bullet. atf officials say they have recovered two guns from the scene but one of those were used. they're not sharing which specific firearms those are as this remains a very active investigation issue particularly with the developments of the communication with this 20-year-old california nan, remains to be seen the extent of the relationship between that man and the female gunman who took her own life shortly after opening fire. katy. >> morgan chesky, thank you very much. >> and coming up next, my next

guest says polio ravaged her family, what she is warning americans as the president-elect picks a vaccine skeptic to lead the u.s. health system. lead the u.s. health system have you always had trouble with your weight? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only weight-management medicine proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events such as death, heart attack, or stroke in adults with known heart disease and obesity. don't use wegovy® with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines, or in children under 12. don't take if you or your family had mtc, men 2, or if allergic to it. tell your provider if you plan to have surgery or a procedure, are breastfeeding, pregnant, or plan to be. stop taking and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or any of these allergic reactions. serious side effects may include pancreas inflammation and gallbladder problems.

call your prescriber if you have any of these symptoms. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. call your prescriber about vision changes, if you feel your heart racing while at rest, or if you have mental changes. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. common side effects include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, stomach pain, flu, or upset, headache, feeling tired, dizzy, or bloated, gas, and heartburn. some side effects lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i'm losing weight, i'm keeping it off, and i'm lowering my cv risk. ask your prescriber about wegovy®. 98 million people who got that vaccine in my generation, got if, and now you have had this explosion of soft tissue cancers in our generation that kill many many many more people than polio ever did. so if you say to me, did the

polio vaccine, was it effective against polio, i'm going to say yes. if you say to me, did it kill more people cause more deaths, i would say i don't know because we don't have the data on that. >> the polio vaccine has saved hundreds and hundreds of millions of lives in the world. >> we're gog oing to get to that allegation in a second. he has been on the hill to convince senators to get on board with his nomination. it has not been an entirely smooth road. the vaccine skeptic and democrat turned trump ally isn't a dream pick to lead hhs for some republicans, including mitch mcconnell, why, because besides kennedy being a democrat, mcconnell knows the damage a vaccine skeptic could do to the country. the 82-year-old senator contracted polio before he was 2 years old. in anticipation of kennedy's

senate tour, mcconnell was clear saying, quote, the polio vaccine has saved millions of lives and held out the promise of eradicating a terrible disease. efforts undermine public confidence in proven cures are not just uninformed, they're dangerous. in this senate with this its particular appetite to appease donald trump, kennedy still has a chance to be confirmed which frankly horrifies my next guest, writing in the free pass, jana described the moment her mother finally realized why there was a darkness in her home she couldn't understand. one day when my mom was 11 years old, she found a photo in the attic of two small children who bore a resemblance to her and her brother. she brought the photo downstairs to her mother, and who they are. those are your two brothers, they died of polio. one was 3. the other was 7 and they died within four days of each other.

joining us now, executive producer of the videos and documentaries at the free press. yana kszlowski, i'm sorry i messed up your name in the beginning. it's a personal story, and one that's important to share. polio seems so distant to anyone living today or anybody that wasn't alive in the 50s, but for your family, it was a very scary and real thing. bring us back to what you've learned about that time. >> yeah, i mean, this is a story that i have been told my entire life. it was a family tragedy that affected my grandparents, my mother, the way they saw the world, and writing this article, i was able to speak with my cousin, marsha rosenthal who's 90 years old now. she was 11 when her cousins, my uncles passed away. and speaking to her, you know, what i got was just the fear, the fear of this disease. the fear of it happening to

children. i think what's different about polio than covid-19, which we have all lived through is it affects young children. especially very young children and babies. and so there was just this fear, especially in the summer time when epidemics would sort of rise that they couldn't go to the ovie theaters, they couldn't go to the swimming pools, they didn't want to leave the house. the fear was overwhelming that children would get polio. for my family this was a might mare come true. >> what was it like according to the stories you were told when the polio vaccine was finally rolled out? >> yeah, i think one of the most striking moments from my interview with my cousin is when she was 11 years old, she decided she didn't want to have children when my uncles died. she didn't want to live with the fear anymore, and the polio vaccine came out a year after she got married. she had three daughters. she now has grandchildren, great grandchildren, and she said this was a miracle. you know, it's amazing that we

have been able to all live in a time where this doesn't have to be a fear anymore. and that's due to the vaccine. >> why do you think people are so skemt ptical of it now? you heard rfk jr. say it contributed to the rise in soft tissue cancers. >> that was a specific case he was talking about, a contamination of the vaccine that happened 60 years ago and hasn't been proven to have affected cancer rates. but i think that people have a lot of distrust in the medical establishment. i think that rfk's message is a compelling one, one that, you know, everybody wants to protect their health. our health care system is flawed, people aren't as healthy in this country as they should be, given that we're the richest country in the world. unfortunately the questions he's asking sometimes are, you know, questions that have been answered. we know this is a safe and effective vaccine. and continuing to question it is

just casting doubt, and it can cause problems when people are using that to make decisions about their health. >> if you were talking to the senators who are going to be interviewing him for hhs secretary, what would you suggest they ask? >> you know, i think he's come out and said that he supports the polio vaccine. i would ask them to question him about why he's made these statements in the past that cast doubt, and that cast doubt not only about the safety but about the efficacy, that this wasn't really the reason that polio was eradicated which i don't think there's much evidence for. i would say to definitely question him about his support and also who he's planning on putting into key positions in hhs because i think that that will be key for him having good counsel if he does get the role. >> i'm sure you've thought about this, it's a really hard question. if you don't have an answer, i don't have an answer. how do you rebuild trust in a system that's lost so much of it? how do you rebuild trust in a

health system when so many americans are doubting what they're putting in their body and they're believing or worried that the companies that say they're there to protect them are actually there to keep them medicated. >> yeah, i mean, i think this is the question that needs to be answered. it's a really difficult one. i think honesty and transparency. the information is out there about how the fda does its testing for new vaccines. i think just trying to get the message out to a variety of people from different walks of life. it seems like we're all getting our news from different places these days, but really focusing on allowing questions when questions are worth asking, which i think it's important for us all to advocate for ourselves in the medical establishment. and then when the answer is out there, making sure that people hear it. >> allowing questions. that is key. jana, thank you so much for joining us, i appreciate it, and telling this very personal story

to your family, your mom's cousin and the experiences that she went through. thank you. >> thank you. all right. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi there, it's 4:00 in new york will the real president-elect stand up? the world's richest man burying a bipartisan bill to keep the government running in a mountain of disinformation. bringing the government to the edge of a shutdown and leading everyone to ask, who is in charge? who is gonna call the shots in trump 2.0. a plan to fund the government with things like isaster aid, things that passed time and time again in congress, a bill negotiated by speaker mike johnson and the democrats met