it seems like you can almost never win. also, you are set up against other women as though the mothers and people who aren't mothers are against each other, which is ludicrous. all the judgment can make people feel very defensive. that's kind of what i was trying to get at there. >> paula, thank you for this. it was fun to catch up on the book. thank you for your -- to our newest member of the velshi banned book club. paula hawkins, author of "the girl on the train" and her latest, "the blue hour." thank you. catch me tomorrow morning. velshi is a podcast, follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. plus, you can find velshi content on youtube. msnbc.com/ali. stay where you are. the katie phang show starts right now. this is the katie phang show, live from telemundo studios in miami, orida. funded for now.

president biden passed the c.r. bill into law. while the shutdown showdown on capitol hill may be over for now, what's next for speaker mike johnson after tanking trump's spending plan in the 11th hour? we have a live report from capitol hill. plus, democracy on the docket. why the courts will remain the most powerful tool against trump's efforts to remake the rule of law and the network of anti-trump, pro-democracy defenders that are gearing up to protect his potential political targets from his looming revenge tour. then, health of our nation. what the mixed reaction to the tragic murder of united healthcare ceo brian thompson says about the current state of health care in america, and how we can make insurers enablers instead of obstacles to the care we need. later, missed opportunity. just one year after the supreme court nixed affirmative action, harvard law school says it has the lowest black enrollment in decades. the troubling impact that could have not only on campus but

across the entire legal profession. all of that and more is coming up. as the 118th congress, known as the least productive congress in u.s. history, closed up shop this week, we saw a return to the same old dysfunction it became famous more. in the last hour, president joe biden signed the stopgap government funding bill after the senate approved the measure just minutes after the midnight deadline. it was once again a stressful and, frankly, unnecessary road to the final bill for house republicans. on wednesday, with a bipartisan agreement ready to go, what now seems like vice president-elect donald trump and his billionaire bestie, president-elect elon musk torpedoed the deal. musk x'd or tweeted out more than a hundred attacks on the

bipartisan deal, and trump unreasonably demanded a last-minute extension on the debt limit. a slimmer version 2.0 approved by musk and trump also failed to pass, with 38 republicans voting against trump's debt limit plan. running out of time and options, house speaker mike johnson was finally able to pass a third version. this time, dumping trump's debt limit increase and keeping our government open for a mere three more months. although embattled and likely embittered mike johnson vows things will be different in the new year with donald trump returning. i know gaslighting when i see it. hard pass. joining me now is julie tsirkin. you've been living at the capitol for the past few days, but now it looks kind of empty. it does seem like third time was the charm for the short-term spending bill. can you let our viewers know in the end what exactly got passed? >> yeah, those sleighs were fuming as members of congress streamed out overnight.

yes, i live here now, thank you for noticing, katie. look, they passed this bill minutes after the midnight deadline. of course, that wasn't actually a shutdown because we are in a weekend, thank goodness. president biden signing the package. you're right this was plan c, if not plan d, that ended up ultimately passing on the house floor. 34 republicans still voting against it, all democrats. two who voted for it. that's significant because it doesn't bode well for johnson's future in the next congress. even if he can hold on to the gavel, he'll have a lot he needs to take care of with a very, very slim majority, having to rely on democratic votes. it'll be a huge mess for him. in terms of what's in the bill, what ended up in the final product, it extends the government until march 14th. it does provide that $100 billion in disaster relief for those communities that were hit so hard by the hurricanes and natural disasters. it also extends a key agriculture bill, providing farmers, as well, with additional emergency funding. what is not in this bill is that

debt ceiling limit that you laid out so well. that is because, not only democrats snarked at the idea, thinking this demand from trump that he wants to suspend the debt limit before he is in the white house, certainly hurdling biden with the responsibility instead was a nonstarter. for republicans, though, it was also a nonstarter and something they're now going to have to tackle next year. we haven't heard from trump, but speaker johnson did say he spoke to the president-elect. he spoke to elon musk. in his words, they received what happened positively. take a listen to what leader jeffries, democratic leader, and, of course, speaker johnson, had to say about this. >> we're grateful that everyone stood together to do the right thing. having gotten this done now, the last order of business for the year, we are set up for a big and important, new start in january. >> house democrats have successfully stopped extreme maga republicans from shutting

down the government, crashing the economy, and hurting working class americans all across the land. >> reporter: now, obviously, what ultimately passed was not the 1,500 page version of the bill that johnson had originally struck with democrats, a bipartisan agreement. this is less than 200 pages. overnight, the senate passed the cancer funding research money for pediatric cancer. they also passed a money transferring ownership of the rfk stadium to d.c.'s hands so commanders could build a brand-new stadium. that was a bipartisan bill. that passed in the senate independent of this funding package. that passed earlier in the house, as well. all of this signed by president biden today. >> nbc news congressional correspondent julie tsirkin, hope you can go home soon. thank you for letting us know what's going on. good to see you. joining me now is ranking member of the house budget committee.

congressman, you've had your hands full. ultimately, though, all of the house democrats voted in favor of the final spending deal. i've got to ask, because this is a perennial question, why does america always have to look to the democrats to be the adults in the room to save the government's funding? >> yeah, that certainly is an evergreen question. you know, we're closing out what is statistically the least productive session of congress in at least a century. it's a session of congress that began when the republicans took four days and 15 votes just to elect their own leader at the time, kevin mccarthy, speaker. i think we should have learned then, that was going to be a real sign of what this congress was going to be like. unfortunately, i don't sigh any signs for it getting better starting january 3rd. unfortunately, republicans still have a very narrow control. we know it will not improve and actually get to a normal,

functioning place until democrats take the majority in the house. >> you know, congressman, trump tried to strongarm a debt ceiling deal into that version of the bill that failed, but republicans, we know they've basically told us, they're promising to slash $2 trillion in government spending and add a debt hike into a reconciliation package next year. to cut $2 trillion, they're not going to be able to do that without putting a torch to things like social security and medicare. they're already calling to raise the retirement age for social security and to restructure medicare. >> that's correct. if they're going to, and apparently there was a slide that was presented during the house republican only meeting yesterday afternoon that showed, right up on the wall what they were planning to do. at least $1.5 trillion worth of cuts to social security, medicare, medicaid, veterans benefits, and a few other areas. the reality is, if it was so easy to cut trillions of dollars

of government spending, it would have been done by now. you cannot make cuts that deep unless you're really going after where most of the money is, which also happened to be some of the most popular programs that the american government is in business of providing. >> congressman, i want you to take a quick look at this tongue in cheek video that's been done by the lincoln project, calling trump vice president to president elon musk. take a quick watch. >> as vice president, trump will finally have the time to do the things that make his happiest. talk about old movies. playing on his phone. as president musk and his assistant, jd vance, select appointees and write policies. we feel certain trump will play his part, because he's a good boy. who's a good boy? trump is a good boy. >> congressman, it may be tongue in cheek, but elon musk, not donald trump, seems to be leading the gop messaging on the

bill this week, even with some members calling for musk to be the new speaker. who is the boss here, congressman boyle? >> here are the facts. a bipartisan agreement had been reached among four parties. the leaders of house republicans, house democrats, senate republicans, and senate democrats. that was unveiled late tuesday night/early wednesday morning. then elon musk took to his social media platform. i still call it twitter. he took to that platform, and over the course of about five or six hours, he sent tweet after tweet after tweet and intimidated speaker mike johnson and house republicans into pulling the bill. the reality is, it's not an exaggeration or a yperbole to say, elon musk is the most powerful man. he called shots, not donald

trump. it is dangerous to democracy. >> we're waiting to see the ethics committee report into congressman matt gaetz, expected to be released any moment. any word on when we might be able to see that? >> just to be clear, i don't serve on the ethics committee. >> i know. >> i don't have privileged information. but i have heard -- i mean, it was certainly being talked about last night, that on monday morning, that would probably be the first point at which we could see what is in that report. >> sounds like christmas. congressman boyle, happy holidays to you and your family. go home. do what you need to do with your family. >> thank you. still to come on the "katie phang show," collective outrage. wildly different reactions to the murder of the health care ceo, and what it says about the broken health care industry. first, slapped down. the specific type of lawsuits trump is using to silence his

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democracy on defense. with president-elect trump signaling he'll be use his second term as a retribution and revenge tour, a new initiative is coming together to offer legal, financial, public relations, and even mental health assistance to people who finds themselves under attack and in his crosshairs. nbc news reporting that when he takes office again, trump will preside over a vast law enforcement apparatus capable of leaving those who crossed him bankrupt, imprisoned, or both. people involved in the effort to try to protect them said. fending off such investigations can be financially ruinous, even if they escape punishment. a legal defense can quickly cross the six-figure mark. joining me now is mark elias,

founder of democracy docket and a partner at elias law group. good to see you. i want you to underscore, because you're actively in the trenches, going to court, fighting these battles, so you understand what litigation looks like and feels like. why is it so important to have protective forces against the improper use and the weaponization of government and investigative power, especially when you look at this incoming administration? >> yeah, sometimes i worry that people think litigation is what they see on tv. it begins, goes through the middle, and concludes in an hour. unfortunately, that's not the case. these investigations can go on for months and months. they can stretch on for years. when you have someone like donald trump and kash patel who, you know, are in control of the levers of those investigations, it can take not just a financial toll on people but a reputational and mental health

toll. set the legal fees aside, it is cold comfort to say, well, at the end of it, since you did nothing wrong, you'll be okay. well, the end may be months and months. they may have been dragged through the public arena. they may have, you know, seen their jobs jeopardized. so it's really important that now, before he takes power, that we all stand up and say, this is not okay. this is not something we're going to normalize. it is not something we are going to allow him to gain advantage in using. >> one of the last, i think, kind of last stands that are being taken in terms of the rule of law is happening in a courtroom in new york. monday, donald trump slamming judge merchan after he rejected the motion to reject the indictment and set aside the jury's verdict. trump claiming presidential immunity. of course, there's still this claim that remains by donald trump of juror misconduct. that aside, marc, with trump's election case on the ropes, is judge merchan america's last

hope for justice? >> i'm not sure that we have a hope for justice. the fact is, donald trump managed to game the court system from start to finish here. he was able to, through a variety of tics involving delays, legal arguments, and arguments to the supreme court and the decision that i think will not stand the test of time, you know, he's managed to escape the consequences of the january 6th activity and the events leading up to it. but, you know, i think it is fair to say the only criminal case that remains standing is the one in new york. in that sense, yeah, that is the one case that right now might hold him accountable. >> earlier today, marc, the senate judiciary committee, chaired by senator dick durbin, released a years' long investigation into the ethical lapses at the supreme court. dick durbin noted, now more than ever before, we know the extent to which the supreme court is

mired in an ethical crisis of its own making. whether failing to disclose lavish gifts or failing to recuse from cases with apparent conflicts of interest, it is clear the justices are losing the trust of the american people at the hands of a gaggle of fawning billionaires. durbin talks about the need for legislative solutions. marc, manage my expectations here. are we now having to put the future of a fair and impartial court in the highest court of the land in the hands of politicians? >> right? so, look, i don't think there's any chance we'll see supreme court reform as long as donald trump is in the oval office. but i do think that the supreme court did make this tuation quite a bit worse for itself. in addition to the issues that senator durbin flagged, i want to flag the fact that the supreme court, through a number of its rulings, undermined its legitimacy and its credibility with the american public. you know, it was 30 years ago that the supreme court in

another case involving roe versus wade, the casey decision, backed away from the cliff. the majority in that case said that one of the reasons why it was not going to overturn roe is it'd erode the credibility of the court. dobbs, that's what it did. it's a series of decisions that have eroded the supreme court's credibility with large parts of the american public. here's the good news, the senate also confirmed the 235th federal judge nominated by joe biden. that means that right now, there are more judges in the federal level who are nominated by democrats than by republicans. people shouldn't gif up ve up o courts and protecting democracy. the supreme court is not what we hoped it'd be, but there are a lot of federal judges out there that hear these cases day in, day out, that make really important decisions. >> you know, marc, i'm sure there's something that didn't escape your notice. the recent lawsuit that was brought against "the des moines register" by donald trump, it wasn't a defamation lawsuit. i want this to be clear. the defamation cases we see with

abc news, the george stephanopoulos settlement, others, that's a different situation. trump is trying something creative, albeit legally defect i have, which is this idea that there is consumer fraud perpetrated when people tune in to watch tv or the news, and these are the claims he's doing. again, it's creative. i'll give him a little credit there. ultimately, legally defective. your thoughts on the idea that he is pushing these legal, alternative theories to try to get them to the supreme court? >> yeah, i mean, first of all, let's marvel a moment, that donald trump is bringing a consumer fraud theory as a legal claim. but, look, what trump is trying to do is to use every legal theory available to him to intimidate and bully his opponents. sadly, we have seen a number of billionaires and large, multinational corporations be willing to be bullied. it's not a surprise that he's continuing to do that. what we need right now is for

everyone to stand up and have courage. we need everyone to stand up and say, i am not going to back down to this bully. i am not going to let him exert his will through frivolous legal claims, through, you know, incendiary posts on social media. we need people to be warriors for democracy, and this is the time for them to prove it. >> and you don't bend the knee. marc elias, my friend, good to see you. happy holidays. thanks for being here. still to come, the boiling point. how america's long-simmering anger against the cruelties of the health insurance industry boiled over into tragedy. what fixing the country's collective failure on health insurance really looks like. keep it right here. here undisputed, undefeated, checkout champion of the world. businesses that want to win, win with shopify. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! —uh. —here i'll take that.

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♪ rinse it out ♪ ♪ every now and then ♪ ♪ i get a little bit tired of the stinks ♪ ♪ that just will never come out ♪ ♪ pour downy in the rinse, jade ♪ ♪ every now and then i rinse it out! ♪ fights odor in just one wash. this week, mangione, accused of fatally shooting the ceo of united healthcare, thompson, was

charged with federal counts, including one for murder, which could carry the death penalty. it came days after 11 state charges were filed, including first degree murder and furtherance of terrorism. despite the stark violence and gravity of the charges, the public's reaction has been mixed. some people sympathizing with the suspect. the killing, while wrong and tragic, has sparked a complex conversation, though, about the health care industry and who exactly it serves. joining me now is the ceo of scan group and scan health plan, a california headquartered, medicare advantage plan, with more than 300,000 members. doctor, thank you so much for joining the show. i want to let our viewers know, you have a unique point of view. you are a practicing physician. you are a senior adviser to the administrator for the centers for medicare and medicaid services at the u.s.partment of health and human services. now, you're the ceo of a not for profit health plan. according to the feds, mangione had a notebook on him when

arrested. he wrote, quote, "the target is insurance." federal prosecutors allege mangione did this in an attempt to spark a debate over insurance industry practices. to you think insurers are now listening? >> i think everyone is listening. i think we're in a moment of reckoning right now, katie, where there is a greater realization that people are unhappy. they're frustrated. they're angry with the state of u.s. health care. i think all of us who work in health care are starting to begin to look inward and ask the question of why and, more importantly, how do we move forward with solutions? this has been a very challenging time for everyone who works in health care. it's not just in insurance. i think people that work in the health system world, the pharmaceutical industry are beginning to take a look at, you know, what it is they're doing and how it's impacting people. i think now is a big moment for change, and i'm hoping that this will be an inflection point for u.s. health care.

>> dr. j ain, you've been vocal on the health care industry. you wrote a good article in "forbes." quote, "policy course reflects that insurers are an obstacle, not enabler, to a functioning system. rather than doing the right thing, they should be subject to intensive regulation to protect the public." we've got to look to legislators, though, to fix the system? they can't self-regulate or self-fix? >> in the article, i was reflecting on the fact that really our perception of insurers will actually shape, you know, how we treat them in the public sphere. i actually don't think we should be looking to regulators. i believe it's time for companies to act and to solve the problems that, frankly, have been normalized for far too long. people experience waits and delays in their care. people are subject to high detective health plans and don't know what their costs will be. this is wrong. i think, you know, those of us

who work in health care, we came to work in the industry to help people. what we find ourselves in is in a frankenstein health care system where we aren't necessarily doing the thing we set out to do. and so i believe the work begins today, to begin to look at the practices that are causing frustration, that are causing people challenges, and we have to begin to acknowledge that we are all part of the problem. and so i don't believe that it's, you know, the job of regulators to fix these problems. i do think that, you know, you're an industry that has, frankly, been successful without necessarily being as good as we can be for the people we serve. i think most people who work within health care would tell you that they believe they're doing the right thing. again, i do believe we've normalized a lot of practices that, frankly, don't serve the interests of the people. you know, as a health care consumer myself, as a physician, as the leader of a health care organization, i believe, you know, the time is now to make real change.

>> well, i'm glad you bring up the timing. obviously, as you've heard on my show so far, and as we obviously know, we're going into another administration starting in january under donald trump. you also wrote a great piece for "forbes" with your predictions for 2025, including this, what i thought, startling statement. quote, the health equity field as we know it will end, citing vivek ramaswamy's post on x. stating the budget request mentions equity 829 times. time to doge it. i mean, dr. ain, the biden administration has focused on healthequity, as you noted. isn't this the public outcry from the luigi mangione murder case? isn't the equity, affordability, the understanding, and the empathy that should be in one of the most important spaces, which is health and health care, i mean, isn't that what this is all about? i mean, should there be any

optimism going into 2025 about what this industry space is going to look like? >> look, i think there's been a major focus on health equity the last four years, and i think, you know, companies like mine are going to continue that focus because it's the right thing to do. at the same time, i don't know that, to your point, from our previous exchange, i'm not sure we're necessarily going to be able to look to the federal government to set the table around a health equity agenda. it needs to come from health system leaders and health plan leaders in the private sector who continue to believe these are important top picks. we're going to maintain focus the next several years there. >> doctor, i actually want to bring up quickly a graphic. i wanted to have our director bring it up. it shows in 2023 that united healthcare was the leader, and you can see it on the screen hopefully, the claim denial rates by major companies, united healthcare is the one bar on top, the highest one.

it's the highest denial rate. i want to be very clear, that is not justification in any capacity, dr. jain, for the crime committed by luigi mangione. but it's something like that, i think, that's spurring the reason why you're writing what you're writing and why you're speaking out the way you are, so that people can have a better understanding, that this blame game has to stop. >> every health insurance company has some form of prior authorization. our perspective is that medical groups themselves should actually own responsibility for making decisions about people's care. doctors, you know, should be in the driver's seat. i think there are payment models that will get health insurance companies out of the business of approving and denying care and put more and more responsibility in the hands of physicians and the medical groups they're apart of. that's the direction we need to move in. i don't think health insurance companies should be gatekeepers. we should be enablers. i think we should be advocates. i think that's the future of

this industry. >> they should be well-intentioned knights, as you write in your "forbes" piece. dr. jain, pleasure to have you here. >> thank you so much. appreciate the opportunity. coming up next, going after glock. inside the multi-state battle pushing the major gun maker to alter its design, and to keep potential shooters from converting a handgun into a machine gun. one of the state attorneys general leading the charge joins me after a very quick break. up to 10 antacids a day. it's that simple, for 24 hour heartburn relief... one beats ten. prilosec otc.

so ahead of donald trump returning to the oval office, some blue state attorneys general are attempting to defend their residents against his proposed second term gun loll pol policies. minnesota and new jersey's attorney generals are suing glock over a switch that illegally converts the handguns into machine guns. the two joined official s in 14 states, forming a coalition, to reduce gun violence by enforcing consumer protection laws. the move is one of many as they prepare to push back against trump. joining me is minnesota attorney general, keith ellison. attorney general ellison, good to see you. can you very quickly explain to our viewers how glock is violating minnesota laws against things like consumer fraud, false advertising, negligence, and public nuisance? >> let me start with a story about charlie johnson. charlie johnson is not with us right now because he happened to be out when two men who wanted

to settle scores with each other had modified glocks, shot each other, shot at each other, and killed charlie johnson. charlie johnson had everything to live for. but because these modified glocks were able to shoot literally dozens of rounds within seconds, these weapons have been rendered even more lethal than they are when you buy them. glock, on the other hand, is known for, since the 80s, you can easily modify the weapons. not only is it foreseeable, we happen to know the progenitor of the company is well aware of it based on witnesses we've interviewed. the be the ottom line, they can redesign their gun and make it -- preserve people's right to have a firearm and stop these

automatic weapons. they literally advertise the fun of automatic weapons because they know with 10 bucks, you do adapt their semiautomatic gun to be an automatic one. and so it's causing havoc in our streets, causing massive loss of life, victim s all over the place. it's got to stop. >> you know, you've actually had a really good run of success in the court system. the reason why i love having this conversation with you and my prior guest, marc elias, as you know, i'm a former prosecutor and trial lawyer, i still believe in the rule of law and i feel the courts are where we have to go to be able to make sure we get the justice we need. for example, you've been really novel in the way you've actually prosecuted some of these cases. i say prosecute in the civil sense as an attorney general. for example, you've sued big oil for defrauding citizens when it comes to climate change. it made it all the way to the supreme court. you successfully beat back big oil and kept that case in state court instead of removing it to federal court where they may get

preferential treatment. they being big oil. do you share the optimism me, elias, and others have, that you can take this lawsuit you brought against glock, which has a 65% market share in handguns, by the way, and actually be able to hold them to account? >> yes, i do. even more than that, there's a lot of public safety civil action we can take. this will never replace police and prosecutors like yourself who have prosecuted people in criminal court, but things like the kia yundai that were easily stolen, and this was supercharged by people watching how to steal these cars on tiktok and on youtube, and the kia boys, for example. not only that, the opioid cases. we know that, you know, purdue and many other companies made these highly addictive drugs available through lying and misrepresentation. these things cause public safety dangers, as well.

so through actions like nuisance and good consumer protection, we can enhance criminal prosecution with consumer protection, if you understand what i'm trying to say. the bottom line is, we need police and prosecutors prosecuting people who commit gun crimes, but we need glock, kia hyundai, the opioid manufacturers and marketers, the oil companies, companies that sell vaping materials, to be responsible. we need them to understand that they have a role to play in making for a safer community, as well. if their products are less easy to be modified into machine guns, less easy -- i mean, not misrepresented in terms of their addictiveness, in terms of the opioids, and not so easy to get stolen, like the kia and hyundais, we can have a safer community. we need everybody to step up, and we need to say safety is everybody's responsibility. starting with glock. >> how absurd is it then to you that you are taking these cases

and doing them for the benefit of the everyday person, and the theories you're using, which have been successful as this idea that consumers need to be protected and you need to protect them from fraud perpetrated by businesses, donald trump is suing "the des moines register," suing "60 minutes," claiming consumer fraud has been conducted by the media because he doesn't like what he sees or hears on "60 minutes"? >> of course, it's awful. but here's the real danger of it, it could have a chilling effect. anybody who does a poll that donald trump doesn't like has to think twice about whether or not they want to be in litigation with him. we need people to have counselor. we need courage. the president-elect is a danger and is threatening a free press. consumer protection, my goodness, this guy has so many

consumer frauds sh s it's hard count them. not only trump university, so many. he's been sued for racial discrimination in housing. he has a long line of civil liability, not to mention what he did to e. jean carroll. he is shameless, absolutely shameless. we believe the rule of law will protect us as the american people as we manage these next four years. >> minnesota attorney general keith ellison, good to see you again. thank you for protecting the people. i appreciate you. thanks for being here. >> thank you. coming up next, harvard by half. how the supreme court's decision to ax affirmative action impacts black enrollment at one of the nation's top law schools, and what that means for other universities across the country that are competing for top talent. you're watching "the katie phang show" on msnbc.

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in 2023, the united states supreme court ruled that colleges and universities could no longer apply race-based affirmative action to the process. a year since the decision, we're seeing how it is impacting admission rates. the results are, well, interesting. "the new york times" reports harvard law school's class of 2027 has the lowest black enrollment since the 1960s, just only 19 students. down from 43 students last year. hispanic enrollment, well, that dropped from 63 last year to now only 39 students. but asian enrollment increased by more than 5%, going from 103 to 132 students. joining me now is kimberly atkins, senior opinion writer and columnist at the boston

globe. also an mississippi snbc politi and contributor to "sisters-in-law" podcast. one of my favorites. we can go cross-eyed, but i'm focusing on the numbers for the blacks and hispanics because they dropped, in my opinion, precipitously, even though the numbers for asians may have gone up at harvard law school. scotus lawsuit was brought on behalf of a group of asian students. i mean, the original scotus case that managed to dismantle affirmative action, did it succeed but only for the asian students? >> i just want to remind people to start with, and good to see you, thanks for having me on, the lawsuit that was brought actually wasn't actually on behalf of asian students. there were not actually asian students from the law school. >> it was a group, yeah. >> it was a group claiming to be operating on asian students' behalf. what this was, was a long effort to eliminate the consideration of race in admissions in school. that was finally after a lot of

smaller battles, it finally won the war with that decision, overturning affirmative action. yes, you cannot extrapolate too much from one class. there are a lot of factors that have gone in. but i'm adding this to the data that has come in from a number of schools in a number of different programs, both undergrad and professional, like law school, which is saying that once you take away the ability to even consider race -- we're not talking about setting aside seats for race or giving black students an advantage other students don't have -- just taking into consideration what your coming class is like and trying to ensure it reflects what our nation looks like, colleges can't do that anymore. we are seeing right away what the result of that is. that shows us that there are systemic barriers to these types of schools in place, that schools have one less tool to combat. >> yeah, you know, i think it is important to emphasize, this is

not just admission into law school, right? one thing you noted on social media is that you remember when you went to law school in boston. you were one of very few black students, and especially one of few black female students. i, too, one of few asian and asian female students in law school. there is a reason you go to a professional school, to be a lawyer and be in a legal field. it's not just, let me get into lawsuit. it's, where does the representation continue? if this barrier is set up, courtesy of a super conservative majority supreme court where affirmative action is dismantled, and you don't get the kids into the institutions to get the education they need to be able to get the bar licenses, to be able to become lawyers to affect change, it ends up being a year upon year cycle of harm. >> it does. when you get out of law school, as you probably had the same experience that i did, and even leading up to law school, you saw the barriers, right? you saw how much harder it was to be able to access the kind of

preparation, to be able to take the l-sat, know how to write a good essay so get into the law schools. i was one of six black students in a class of 400 when i graduated. i went on to practice law in boston. i would show up to court, people thought i was a defendant. even though i was a civil litigator. people would, you know, try to direct me to the criminal division of the courthouse. you still run into -- you know, i had judges asking me who i was. there are more barriers. then what's happening here, too, is when law firms are hiring or prosecutors are being hired, it's that much harder for these people to get in the position to even get hired. we're talking about the system that ensures our justice. if people who are most impacted by that system are not represented as part of the system, it just perpetuates the inequality. >> kimberly, i got a minute but i want to highlight this. a lawsuit accuses colleges of secretly favoring the wealthy in

the admissions process at schools like penn, m.i.t., cornell, and others. it's not just race based, it is also financial. >> right. >> barriers to entry that are being litigated, as well. >> yeah, there are a lot of schools that were financially out of reach for me. when i got to law school, there were a lot of kids in there whose parents had gone to the same law school and who certainly had a lot more wealth. i could tell they did not have a lot more intelligence. so there is injustice built into the system, but the supreme court's ruling is perpetuating it and ensuring it in a really disappointing way. >> kimberly atkins, thank you for your voice. happy holidays to you and your family. good to see you. i appreciate it. >> you too. thanks to all of you for joining us today. i appreciate it. you can catch me back here next saturday at noon eastern. in the time slot tomorrow, jen psaki will be joined by house minority leader hakeem jeffries. tune in to watch jen with hakeem

jeffries. follow us at the katie fang show on social media using the handing, katie phang show. you can catch slip clips on youtube and listen to this show as a podcast for free. scan the qr code to follow now. please don't go anywhere. "msnbc reports" with alex witt is coming up next. and is 2x more absorbent so you can use less. bounty, the quicker picker upper.

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headquarters here in new york. welcome to alex witt reports. we begin with a holiday shutdown averted. the president signed a funding relief act. president-elect donald trump and billionaire elon musk had derailed an earlier bipartisan bill threatening primary challenges against any republican who supported a bill that did not suspend the debt ceiling. nbc's sahi cupure reports that bill failed dramatically and 170 house republicans joined democrats in defying trump and leaving what one republican described as a big mess. democrats today are celebrating the relief act as a big win for their agenda. >> we got the fund bill