dennis murphy: and then after a brief prayer, they stood by the pond, and the brisk wind carried away their goodbyes. let go. [cheering] dennis murphy: farewell to hannah hill, never forgotten by her family and friends, or, as it turned out, by the criminal justice system. that's all for this edition of "dateline". i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. [music playing] ♪♪ good morning and welcome to this sunday edition of "morning joe" weekend. it was another fast-moving newsweek. here are some of the

conversations you might have missed. >> "the new york times" has a new piece on president biden as he is a little over a month away from leaving office. it is titled, a weary biden heads for the exit. in his final weeks, the president is determined to finish on a high note, and shape his legacy. a sprint to the finish line as chief of staff jeff zients puts it, the biggest box left is a cease-fire in gaza. and if he manages that, it would be a validating triumph for a departing president. otherwise, he is wrapping up his time in office by claiming credit for the healthy economy that he is turning over to his ungrateful successor and by getting money previously approved by congress out the door for roads and bridges, at home and arms for ukraine abroad. >> so, jonathan, of course this gaza cease-fire has haunted him for some time. i mean it has been front of mind

now for a year. do they think -- we just talked to jake, sounds like they're optimistic, they may get it by the very end. >> they're hopeful. as jake told us a short time ago, they have been close before and have seen it fall apart. there is no question president biden for more than a year now deeply frustrated by the situation, gaza frustrated with prime minister netanyahu, not believing all the time he was a good faith partner in trying to get a deal, trying to get a cease-fire and those hostages home, believing that the war was a political albatross for him as well, believing that was a real obstacle to his re-election campaign even before the rous debate in atlanta. the fallout he believes impacted the vice president's chances as well. it is interesting, biden kept a pretty low profile here in these final weeks. he is an institutionalist. he does believe in not wanting to criticize the incoming administration. he's made his feelings about donald trump clear in the past,

but he's largely work behind the scenes trying to get this deal done with a few other events to shape his legacy and trump proof his accomplishments before his successor comes in. >> when you look at presidents that leave with lower approval ratings, whether it is george w. bush, you go back historically to harry truman, a lot of times they have economic problems and a lot of other things that are going in different directions. said it before, five years from now, people are looking back most likely at the numbers, the economic numbers that joe biden has and they go, wow, what was that all about? it is like george h.w. bush, we found out a couple years later that actually the economy had started growing again in the fourth quarter. but with biden, you have actually two or three years of really good economic numbers. you have -- you have bipartisan legislation, did a better john on that than any other president in the 21st century. it is interesting right now, he is leaving that picture head

down, sort of slowly heading for the exits, not saying a whole lot. i'm wondering, though, what that legacy looks like in five years. >> well, i don't know, joe, i think, you know, history will be the lead of that story will be looking back on his time in office will be, you know, that he was the person who beat donald trump in 2020 and helped to end the pandemic. and there will also be a very -- that double barrel lead, there will be that he was essentially forced off the ticket by his own party late in a presidential election here, which is a pretty extraordinary thing. i don't think that a good economic numbers or anything else will obscure how singular and central that will be to his legacy and there are still democrats who think he never should have left the ticket, there are democrats who thought he never should have run for re-election at all at his age

and that will be pretty fiercely debated for a long time. i will say to jonathan lemire's point, he's not just been low profile. he's more or less ceded the stage to donald trump in this period, and we had -- he went on that foreign trip recently where i believe i saw some reporting that said he said exactly seven words to the traveling press while he was out of the country for almost two weeks. it is kind of amazing, even for george w. bush, you think back, he left office in 2008 with a lower approval rating than joe biden, it was in the 20s, he was still out there trying to shape his legacy, giving farewell addresses and trying to frame his accomplishments. we don't know if biden is going to do that or not. but right now it has been kind of amazing the degree to which he said not only there is one president that the institutionalists would say, there is one president at the time, he's president, but it has felt like trump has been president since election day. >> there is a new op-ed entitled "the road back to power for

democrats," rahm is the ambassador to japan. and was former white house chief of staff for president obama. and before that, mayor of chicago and chair of the dccc. he writes in part this, campaigns of joy in an era of rage don't win elections. the democratic party has been blind to the rising sea of disillusionment. in today's america, aspiration and ambition have been supplanted anger and animosity. talking about missing the moment. this groundswell of resentment had been simmering for years. trump just seized on it. our language and priorities have reinforced the aloof elite stereotype. trump on the other handicap chured the underlying zeitgeist. we can no longer tiptoe around the issues that have people worried. november was a jarring reminder that misjudging the mood of a nation can be catastrophic.

if democrats are to make most of the next election, they must ready their message and messengers, abandon failed orthodoxies, and embrace strategies with a record of delivering seats, success, and real prosperity. joe? >> so, rahm talked about several things that he thinks caused democrats problems and more importantly just mistrust of elites. he talked about those who launched the iraq war are now on corporate boards and didn't pay for any of their tragic misdeeds. talked about what happened to the banks on, you know, after the crash of 2008, that the banks just got rich, the rich got richer, and it was the poor that ended up or the middle class that ended up in trouble. and same thing with the pandemic shutting down schools and businesses for too long.

what do you think about rahm's diagnosis for democrats? >> i agree in part. i would not say jarring, because let's remember the democrats only lost by less than 2%. so we keep acting like there was a landslide against the democrats. that's not true. i think, though, that rahm is right, if there had been more emphasis and more projection on the pain that people were feeling, they would have edged that 1.5% and won the election. and they could have identified that a lot of the reason you're hurting is the guy that succeeded barack obama and joe biden, who did nothing about some of the issues that you are talking about, cuddled some of the people that benefited and never paid for what happened in terms of the economy collapsing when it did under the last days of george bush. and i think that joe biden had a lot that he could show that was not being pushed out. i think, though, we're trying to

say he's too old, get out, was putting out the accomplishments. joe biden really stabilized the economy. he was the most consequential civil rights president in my lifetime. i mean, here is a guy that put -- he just even now during what we called the quiet times put the 30th black woman on the federal bench, in georgia, more blacks on the bench than any president, he's been -- he put a black woman as vice president, a black woman in the supreme court, and more black federal judges. i mean, but they were not talking about that. they were talking about identity politics that didn't matter rather than what did matter. there should have been more emphasis on what they did and more targeting of what donald trump would not do and did not do as president. >> "morning joe" weekend will be right back after a quick break. e right back after a quick break i'm not good being retired. i'm a pain in the neck. i like to be able to have a purpose. about three or four years ago, i felt like i was starting to slip.

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welcome back to "morning joe" weekend. let's pick up with the conversation we were having just before the break. >> rev, what is your sense, you are still connected to the democratic base, progressives as well. what is the feeling now as people were, you know, we're a month and a half on from election day, people picked themselves off, dust themselves off as you said, and we can't say it enough, donald trump won a plurality. kamala harris won 48.3%. this was not a landslide despite what he likes to say, but clearly some things need to change for democrats. what is being done even now to move in that direction? >> i think that we'll see in the race for who will be dnc chair the direction of the party. are we going to talk to the pain of people? people are really suffering. we cannot in any way gloss over that. even though we can say the blame should not have been where it was, they were recovering from some of the pain, but still

address the pain. in terms of people who are blue collar workers, people in rural areas, as well as people of color have that common pain without knowing that each other share in that pain and rather than playing them in pockets, we need to bring them together and say, yes, we're hurting and this guy coming in needs to be resisted, not to be congratulated. he identified, donald trump did in many ways identified and touched into that pain, even though he helped to cause a lot of it when he was there for four years, he's going to cause more. putting all these billionaires in this cabinet is not going to solve the problem. but we're not talking about that. the people that are hurting you in appalachia and in harlem are the people he's putting on his cabinet. >> so, mike, on rev's point about democrats coming in, need to figure out their level of resistance, we talked earlier that trump camp is sending signals maybe they are willing

to deal on this or that. we have seen in the past donald trump himself usually blows that up. but if there is a good faith effort here to try to get a few things done, even around the edges, should democrats take that opportunity or should it just be pure resistance? to rev's point, there is a lot of uncertainty and anger in the country, but eyes on washington too. >> hakeem jeffreys is going to be -- that's a question for him. >> i'll skim had too. right now i'm asking you. >> oh, okay. i didn't know you were addressing me. yeah, they should cooperate to get something done that is positive. they should not cooperate if it is the usual republican stuff that the republicans are talking about. for instance, what were they talking about yesterday that we reported on today? you know, indicting liz cheney for something. the coverage of this thing, of the end of the biden presidency is really interesting to me. it is like going to a baseball game and you watch the game, you drive home and say, that's a good game, you get home and realize, that was a great game. and what has happened here in

the coverage of the end of the biden presidency is that it is dominated by his age. every story that is written describes his age, his shuffle, his stutters, he didn't say anything, and age takes precedence over the accomplishments of the biden administration. >> which are historic. >> well, they certainly are historic and certainly are a huge positive for americans. >> it became taboo to talk about them. >> he never was up 3:30 in the morning sending out delirious tweets talking about age. >> there's that. there's also the fact that, i mean, he hasn't said anything and trump dominated the headlines. trump always dominates the headlines because of our weakness, especially the print media, they go right to him, right to him, if he sneezes, it is front page of every newspaper. but at the end of the day, joe biden is an institutionalist. he has enormous respect for the

presidency, for the office of the presidency. he's not going to be vying with donald trump in these closing days. >> we got the soup cans of the string where you connected john heilemann. john? >> well, i was saying, i think, there is a temptation on the part -- hopefully you can hear me, the temptation on the part of democrats to look at how close the race was and point out harris came close as you were pointing out in the first hour, those three blue wall states she didn't get wiped out, it wasn't a landslide, very close election and democrats did reasonably well at the house level and then won a bunch of battleground states at the senate level. that's a way to say, hey, we don't need to do root and branch reform of the party. and i think there is a large number of -- a number of other people of the party who think, hold on a second, you know, not just in this election, but now stretching back, this is something that rev was talking

about, stretching back now 20 -- 30 years, democrats have ceased to be the party of the working person in america, the thing that the party was. it started with a lot of -- with weakness with white working class voters. now with latino working class voters and increasingly with black men, working class black men and that is not a position that allows for democratic party to be a majority party in america. we still have a country where, you know, 60% of the country is not college educated. if you're not able to compete for working class votes, you can't be a majority party. i think a lot of democrats they think about what has to happen now, figuring that out and also figuring out this thing that rahm was talking about, which is the party has become the party for a lot of people of the establishment, of the institutions, and of the rich to some extent that the fact that it has become the college -- the party of college educated voters means more affluent voters and this trump administration offers

some opportunities to, again, to the point rev made for democrats to get their mojo back in the populist land, in the reform land, try to make the arguments about what you're seeing or about to see in the trump administration going forward in terms of a pay for play element where it looks like a giveaway to the lutocroats, opportunities for democrats on both fronts, the reform front and the working class champion of the working class identity they want to get back to. >> coming up, former congressman tim ryan will take us through his argument for how the party moves forward in the wake of the november election. that important conversation just ahead on "morning joe" weekend. t ahead on "morning joe" weekend that's why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. uniquely designed with carbsteady. glucerna. bring on the day.

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ocasio-cortez lost a key show of support yesterday in her push to serve as the top democrat on the

house oversight committee next year. the powerful steering and policy committee recommended congressman jerry connolly of virginia instead. the results are not final until full caucus votes today. >> let me ask you about that. aoc, she energizes younger voters. they really do. and even across party lines, establishment, the democratic party, not going to be as excited. some of her views will be left of center where the mainstream democratic caucus is. how does she get involved in a meaningful way? she lost the race yesterday. that certainly would have done it. but what is a good pathway forward? because, again, the challenge for democrats, stop firing at each other, right? and instead figure out how to get the progressive wing, which i said time and again, they were in many ways pretty patient during the biden administration, going along with some bills they

didn't agree with. and the more conservative moderate wing, how do they get together, move forward with a common goal of winning elections. >> i think hakeem jeffries is going to -- the leader of the democratic party in the house is going to have to figure out how to position someone like her, because you run into the inertia of congress, on the republican side you have six-year term limits for committee chairs and democratic side you do not. so, people can get into the leadership position and really there is no -- there is no movement. and i think that was a lot of frustration for guys like me and others who are trying to climb the ladder or get in positions, it takes so much time. she's a powerful voice for the party and i think you see how she handled the trump /bernie voter. she's trying to educate democrats on how do you talk to people about the working class economic issues to bring them into the fold, whether you're in

agreement on the solution of redistribution, grow the pie, democratic socialism or reform capitalism. that's the argument you should have. she's clearly very talented and understanding how to connect the working class people. she needs a place in the party that talked about those. >> congressman, let's talk big picture democratic party post election, all this talk about soul searching. i'm going to read your piece in "newsweek," dnc should move d.c. headquarters to youngstown, ohio, where you're from, youngstown, ohio. you've been talking about what happened on election day for ten years or so. you've come on this show and saying we're losing these people, we need to work harder to keep these people. now that i think a lot of democrats have woken up to what you've been saying for a while, what now for democrats? >> i would say that a little bit tongue in cheek of move the headquarters to youngstown, ohio, where there is working class people, it is an old

factory town, they're gritty, we have created a great coaching culture, youngstown has been known as the cradle of coaches, the stoops brothers, jim tressel, urban meyer is from not far away. how are you gritty? how do you lead? how are you disciplined? and how do you have straight talk? honest conversations with people so your team trusts you. democrats have lost that trust. i say youngstown, it could be flint, toledo, steubenville, milwaukee, pittsburgh, doesn't matter. it just can't be in freaking washington, d.c., like, how many times are we going to talk to ourselves about something that is irrelevant to that person in youngstown, ohio, who comes out of that culture, the economic anxiety and all of that. it can't be in washington, d.c. it would be a very good strategic move, as i say in the piece, to have the workers there, have these high overpaid consultants go to a place like

youngstown, play bocce, watch sports, be in the community, eat dinner, great italian food, they're going to eat well. go there and listen. don't be on twitter. don't tell them what you think. nobody cares what you think. listen. two ears, one mouth. you listen. just like we were raised. if we do that, we will begin to shift the culture of the party. >> congressman, so, youngstown is a great example because i think decades ago, i guess the big employer there was probably republic steel. i remember when i was in college, i had a friend whose dad -- who grew up in youngstown and his dad worked for republic steel and, you know, so, it is one thing to listen and to play bocce, but what should the message be for a place like youngstown, ohio? what should democrats be saying

they intend to do or they want to do to make people's lives better there? >> we have got to become the party of reform, period, end of story. everything needs to fit under that. everyone knows the government is broken. everyone knows the economy is not working for them, eugene, whether you're white or black or brown, male, female, whether you work in manufacturing or retail. you know that we blow way too much money on healthcare. you know we're spending billions of dollars on education, but yet we're not getting the skill set that we need to dominate the new economy. we know that affordability around energy is not where it needs to be. we know these communities need rebuilt, these downtowns are empty, the rivers are dirty. like, we need a huge reform agenda and that's where i think we drop the ball and we gave trump that lane on reform, you're seeing it now with doge and you're seeing hey, he's the one taking on the broken

economic system, even though he's got concepts of a plan with healthcare, you know, he's at least acknowledging that there is a lot of problems with healthcare, and we didn't get the message out on the insulin and those other things, so i think the brand for democrats needs to be, you know, reform and renewal, a la teddy roosevelt, we're going to take on these entrenched interests. i think what robert kennedy jr. is doing talking about food, what we have done to the food industry, the consolidation and meatpacking, the consolidation around seed and pesticides, like, why can't we go into rural america and tell farmers that we're on your side, we know that it went from seven, eight, different, nine seed producers to now two or three and it is basically a monopoly and you're getting screwed. we have got to have some courage, you know. we got to have the guts to say we're going to go into rural america, you can't leave voters out there, like, they don't know what you stand for. >> how can it be that in

youngstown, ohio, the average salary last year was $34,000 a year for a family, for a household? household average salary last year, $34,000. and yet the government of the billionaires, for the billionaires, by the billionaires, won ohio overwhelmingly. how does that happen? how do democrats miss that layup? why have they continued to miss that layup for years? average household, $34,000 -- >> yeah. >> voting for government of the billionaires, for the billionaires, by the billionaires over and over again. how could it be that ohio is gone? >> they -- i don't think ohio is gone. they saw trump as the blue collar billionaire who is going to go in and help fix it and maybe he's the only guy that

could. and unfortunately, as much as i love bill clinton, they see the democrats as the ones who pass nafta, and led us through globalization. and those workers at places like delphi or general motors, we literally watch those jobs go from warren, ohio, over the border, into mexico and ship the product back. our workers were unbolting machines and shipped to china. >> that was 1994. >> it's still in the dna. >> democrats can't figure something out from 1994 forward? >> that's the problem. they said you do this and obama was in for eight years and we -- the things are not -- have not gotten any better. now, finally, to biden's credit, we have reindustrialized the country, but we didn't have a reform reindustrializing, we're taking on those guys and we're putting -- there is a battery plant outside of youngstown,

2,000 uaw jobs, 30 bucks an hour, just renegotiated the contract. we didn't hear about that. so all the upside, we didn't talk about, all the reforms that we were trying to make around -- you didn't hear a ton about it. it wasn't this big, bold agenda. it was really piecemeal and we need that big reform agenda. carry a bistick. >> all right, former democratic congressman tim ryan, good to see you. thank you for coming on this morning. coming up, our next guest says a rising tide lifts all megayachts. ed luce explains how the rich are getting richer with trump returning to the white house. that conversation just ahead on "morning joe" weekend. white hoe that conversation just ahead on "morning joe" weekend. everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night? yeah, every night! hmm... i see.

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so, ed luce, your latest piece delves into how elon musk and other super wealthy entrepreneurs stand to benefit from deregulation. and you write in part this, my bet is is that musk will fail to persuade congress to give up its power of the purse, but congress will enact trump's tax cuts. the net result will be a growing u.s. budget deficit which, at 6.4% of gdp in 2024 is already high. the growing fiscal deficit will lead to a higher cost of borrowing. that will hit the middle class twice over. in the greater share of the u.s.

budget eaten up by debt servicing and hit the personal bottom line through higher real estate rates. from the rising valuation of dogecoin in which musk has a stake to tesla's spacex, neuralink and xai, all of musk's companies are booming, giving the ranging complexity of musk's interests, it will be hard for the media, congress, and other oversight bodies to keep check on the multiple plays at stake. >> i'm going to let walter ask you a question about all of that in a minute. but, first, ed, i want to go back to something i just keep hearing from financial leaders, bankers, economists on both sides of the atlantic, and that

is a wing fear of america's fiscal crisis. you talk about -- i heard it over and over again on both sides of the atlantic, about how america can't keep spending the way it has since 2007, through bush, obama, trump, biden, and now -- and there is a fiscal crisis that is coming, we're up to 6.5%, 7% deficit to gdp. everybody is saying we got to get it down to 3%. i don't -- i don't know how we do that, especially with massive tax cuts, and increase of spending when it comes to defense. i mean, i don't know how we get there from here, ed. >> it is a really good question. and it is complete contrast to when trump last came into office? 2017 when interest rates were effectively zero. fed starts were zero bound.

money was basically free. and therefore the consequences of increased spending under trump's rst term and the tax cuts were not showing up in terms of inflation. that only came after the -- during the late pandemic. so, he comes in now in a sort of season where there is monetary straight jacket on, whether consequences of increasing that budget deficit will be immediately translated into the bond yields, into interest rates and that i think will keep him honest because when the market reacts, it is not doing so yet, but when it reacts to more deficit, more red ink, it will be immediate, and it will cost growth and it will hit the blue collar voters who returned trump to office. and i suspect it will cause -- it will cause the kind of

fraction you saw if, indeed, he's serious about these plans, will cause what you saw with list truss' short lived government in britain. she was killed by the -- >> this reminds me, walter, you'll remember this, back in 1993, bill clinton was going to pass all of this sweeping legislation and then he sat down, rubin and greenspan sat down with him and said if you do it, the bond markets are going -- >> may have been a mistake. >> bond markets are going to crush you and let james carville to say, when i was growing up, i thought i wanted to be a baseball player. actually in my next life i want to be like the bond market. because i think if you talk to carville now, you'll think a lot of democrats listen too much to the bond market. >> so, the question now is, is there the same sort of fiscal straight jacket going into the new term with the $36 trillion

debt. the debt then was like, 3 trillion, $4 trillion, sympathy it spiked over the past few years. >> i will say musk, when he gets into focus demon mode, he really goes after things and he is worried about the deficit. he just thinks that this is going to kill the united states. and he -- i watched him. in my book, i talk about him going into spacex and lowering costs ten fold so that it is almost 100 the cost to get something into orbit that takes boeing or nasa to do. cutting 80% of the people at twitter, the big thing is when he does that at twitter, when he took it over, he owned twitter. he doesn't own the federal government. i read ed's piece and i turn to him and say, or i ask, at least, i think musk is going to go in there, with his team, with the people he has embedded in omb,

with the people that -- the agencies that he's helped place, and really try to cut costs and cut regulations radically. and as you say in your piece, this is something that congress may not go along with. i tend to think that they may push the bounds of power. you'll have to explain to me exactly what sequestration is, and rescissions and all, but i think they are going to end up cutting more than the conventional wisdom happens. do you agree? >> i think that might be right, walter. but if you look at plenty of lines in various regulatory agencies and the bigger departments, federal departments, sure, there is fat there. there is unnecessary bureaucracy. and definitely overregulation in some areas and i suspect he will

be successful in identifying some of those and getting rid of some of those. but in terms of the larger pledge of cutting a third from a $6.4 trillion federal budget, unless you cut defense spending, which trump promised to do the opposite of, unless you have dramatically falling interest rates, which would reduce the cost of servicing that huge federal debt we have just been talking about, or unless you cut entitlements, which trump has pledged not to do, you're not going to make much of a dent in the federal budget. >> let me push back on one thing you said. i know that elon musk thinks he can get enormous amounts out of the defense budget. you say that's not touchable. i think, now, this may never happen, he would get rid of the f-35, the whole procurement process. >> can i just stop you right there? i was on the armed services committee, and we were in pretty

partisan times, but i found out pretty quickly when fire -- shots were being fired back and forth, i go, oh, that's the congressman from boeing. oh, that's the congressman from lockheed martin. they're not going to give up, like, their program. they're not going to give up their base for anybody. >> when he goes on x and starts hammering them, for protecting boeing in alabama or pensacola and your old district, and when he has trump on his side, it is going to be a more interesting fight than in the old days. >> coming up, we'll take a look at the new film "sing sing" which tells the story of an incarcerated man who helps people in prison develop critical life skills through the arts. oscar-nominated actor colman domingo joins us to talk about his role in what critics are calling one of the very best movies of the year. "morning joe" weekend will be right back. of the year "morning joe" weekend will be right back m gonna cashback on a few other things too...

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this is a clemency hearing for your conviction, 25 to life. since you've been in custody, you've been involved in the theater program. >> gentlemen, let's go! >> it's been a program that was established to help people to truly get some rehabilitation. >> i am goliath. >> i am spartacus. >> i'm prince hamlet. >> and it turned into something, i don't know, wonderful. >> what part do you play? >> from time to time, i do act, like we all do. >> so are you acting at all during this interview? >> that was a look at the film "sing sing." it starts academy award nominated and emmy award winning

director colman domingo as divine g in the retelling of a true story of a man in prison who leads other incarcerated men in the theater program. the critically acclaimed film took the groundbreaking step of casting a formerly incarcerated members of the same sing sing theater program that is portrayed in the movie. colman joins us now. he was nominated last week for a golden globe for his performance in "sing sing" and serves as an executive producer on the film. congratulations on the nomination. thank you so much for being here. let's start with that decision, the decision to have alumnus from the program be in the movie. >> it felt right in every single way. you have men who have the lived experience, who went through this program, so it brings a sort of authenticity to the work in a different way. i have to sort of lean into that as an actor, instead of, like,

bringing my performance to somewhere where they're living and help guide them to this cinematic space that i'm sure they're unfamiliar with. we created this beautiful hybrid, we tell this narrative in, like, 95-minute film, but i think there is something about it that feels very much like a documentary because you have people who actually have been through this program. >> and it looks -- it looks so beautiful. of course, it was sort was released this summer, released again, can be released again. but, it is not just a feel good story. i love the fact that for inmates that were a part of this program, the recidivism rate was 3%, compared to 60% nationwide, which reminds me we had this beautiful moving documentary that we talked about last week, about young girls that get to be with their fathers at the dance in prison. the recidivism rate was

extraordinarily low for fathers who participated in that. give somebody a chance to connect with their humanity and you will get the best out of them. >> that's exactly what we learned about these programs, a program like rehabilitation of the arts. things are coming together and we're doing theater games, and all these things that any one of us who have done theater games in junior high school, you realize what it helps build, it helps build communication skills, you put yourself in someone else's shoes. i think it is a thing that they were never offered before, that opportunity to put themselves in someone else's shoes. >> and you're playing the role of a man who said he was wrongly convicted of murder, served 25 years. >> yes, absolutely. john divine g. whitfield. i'm playing him, but also a lot of other -- i'm representing a lot of other men and even women who have been wrongly accused of a crime. people think that, you know, as we do know, that not everyone who is in prison belongs in prison. i feel like this is someone who hung on to his humanity by being

a jailhouse lawyer, advocating for others on the inside and being one of the founders of this theater program that really has had lasting effects on the communities as they exit, those gates, and never come back. >> and isn't it a lot of showing, we're talking about human beings and some of them made mistakes, some didn't, but they're in jail, and as you say, some shouldn't be. some should. i grew up in brownsville, some folks should have gone to jail that didn't go. and some folks went that shouldn't. your commitment, though, when you tell these stories, i remember you played bayette rusten and i knew rusten as a kid. talk about what this meant to you to be able to tell their story, these are human beings that deserve to be looked at differently and not just as we were saying, that when i was growing up it was called correctional facilities, now it is just detention centers.

they don't just need to be caged, they need to be given a chance. >> well, who else -- first of all, to sit here with you, dear man, who has done so much for all of us, i think you inspired me in many ways to make sure i'm looking after not only human beings, but i'm looking after black and brown men as well. i know growing up in inner city west philadelphia, i know the chances that many of us don't get and it goes back to kindergarten, programs that are, like, help supporting us to actually be fully realized human beings, things so -- i feel like programs like this is resetting these folks on the inside, saying, they were never allowed the chance to play, to be, to have feelings, to deconstruct all the things that we're seeing -- or taught to be as black and brown men, to be strong, to be hard, it is really smashing all of that. and inviting tenderness, inviting a new path. a lot of guys say, hey, if i had programs like this, when i was like 6 or 7 years old, maybe the

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♪♪ good morning a welcome back to "morning joe: weekend". let's jump right back into some of the conversations we wanted to highlight from the last week. >> so, mr. secretary, let's

talk about some of these controversial picks, including this one, the job you held, and the confirmation process. >> that flew under the radar, by the way. >> talk about that and also the process. what could some of these controversial picks expect? >> first of all, as we are talking, i am thinking about the recent supreme court nominees who all said they believe in stare decisis and roe v wade settled the law but where did that get us? first of all, i think it is important to come back to basis -- basics about the role of a cabinet officer is. i ran the largest department, i was general counsel of dod for four years in the cabinet office is the ceo of a very large government department. you are also someone who advances the president's political agenda at that

department but you are also advisor to the president, to say to the president things he or she needs to hear but doesn't necessarily want to hear. first and foremost, you have to ask yourself, the basics, can this person run a very, very large department of our government and you look at someone like that, it is a basic competence question. >> it is even more than that. do you know how to run stuff? do you not a listen? do you know how to gain the respect and admiration of the people you lead, do you understand washington? do you understand budgets? do you understand how the press functions, do you understand legislative affairs? i am afraid a lot of that is getting lost in the current theme around, rather, some of these nominees satisfy even the most basic qualifications for a job almost anywhere. >> what you think, mr. secretary, are the practical implications of someone like pete hegseth, kristi noem, the governor of south dakota, someone like tulsi gabbard at

dni, kash patel at the fbi. the list is long. what happens if some or all these people get those jobs? >> well you know, if and to the extent this president perceives he has a mandate to be a disruptor, to really shake things up, then to do that, you have to hire people for your cabinet who understand the bureaucracy and know how to do that, as opposed to just for going around and if confirmed, pete hegseth would be part of the national command authority. he would be part of the national security chain, second highest, just below the president, which, when you think about it, is a pretty scary thought. and the department of defense is a massive, massive bureaucracy. the department of the army, the department of the air force, the department of the navy, space force, figuring out how to run an 800 billion dollar budget, i search with very

different styles. >> two pros. >> i would sit at the table with bob gates in his office and he was always the most experienced national security official in the room. leon panetta, a lifetime of experience in congress, he chaired the budget committee, white house chief of staff, omb, cia, he brought all of that to the pentagon. and that is the type of person this country deserves to lead the most powerful military force on the planet. >> wow. okay, so a new piece in the atlantic looks to explain how democrats lost their way on immigration. in it, cecilia munoz and frank sherry, who are advisors to former president obama and vice president, harris, respectively, right, quote, now that trump is preparing to take

office again, democrats and immigration advocates share the same priority :to bite his radical mass deportation plans. democrats need to insist on more control and more compassion, more order and more immigration come strict limits and wider legal pathways. this stands in stark contrast to both right and left. the right accuses -- argues to kick out and keep out all immigrants. the left argues to let all of them stay. both amount to overreaches that will eventually backfire. voters want a middle way, but they are forced to choose between those who promise control and those who seem indifferent to chaos. they will choose the former. democrats half to win the argument, regardless of whether the advocacy groups come along. immigration is a defining feature of our past, present and future. we don't have to choose between

being a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws. the best way to be either is to be both. what a way to begin. >> you wanted to talk about this today and i am so glad you did because this is something that democrats haven't gotten for 30 years. there has always been the assumption that hispanic voters want illegal immigration. there has always been the assumption that if you actually secure the border, you are going to lose hispanic voters. i know, because i was having these debates with democrats in the 1990s. >> yep. >> saying you are wrong to think that because somebody is a hispanic, they support open borders. it is not that simple. >> no. >> here we are, 30 years later, the cost to democrats for

having a lot of people wanting their parties that feel that way, has been gray. >> first of all, i question if there is a hispanic vote in this country because latinos in this country are such a diverse group of people. >> that's right. >> an aha moment for me was one day in laredo, texas in 2016, 85% mexican american, 85% democratic and the local congressman there said to me, these people want us to be fair and compassionate, but they also want a strong border under control. by definition, hispanic voters are people who came to this company the root -- country the right way because they're eligible to vote. they became citizens. i agree with every word and that article. during the obama administration, the holy grail, the view was, we should have comprehensive immigration reform but republicans are only going to agree to it if we secure the border. barack obama did not mind taking the grief of a secure

border, although he was upset about the reporter in chief label. we got it to the senate with 60 votes. >> he was upset about that but he deported more people than donald trump did. so much of this is just pr. barack obama deported more illegal immigrants than donald trump. >> and the numbers of illegal crossings during the obama years were the lowest they had been in 20 years. actually, when he left, i have seen it, a 50 year low when he left office. >> i was there. yes. back in 2016. i am sorry, go ahead. >> when trump comes in, the democrats swing hard to the left. i cringed at that presidential primary debate when they all raised their hand to say, yes, we want to decriminalize border crossings. you can't decriminalize border crossings because you're basically sending the message

to central and south america, everybody come. you just can't do that. i think biden was the only one who refuse to raise his hand because he understood the issue better. >> and when you are listening the article, when you are reading the article, mr. secretary, wouldn't you argue they lost the political moment by not pushing back saying, wait a minute, what are you talking about? we deported more illegal immigrants under obama than under trump. a lot of the democrats didn't want to look like that because -- >> they don't like to talk about it. >> i think that lost key votes. the other part i wish you would elaborate on, there is no such thing as one monolith with the hispanic vote. people from puerto rico are different from people from ecuador. people from mexico are different from people from peru. the most biased view of

hispanics is to act like they are all the same thing and they are not. >> yep. i think the democratic party, frankly, has to get away from identity politics. um, a lot of democrats and i will include myself in this, believe you talk to groups of voters on specific issues, based on their identity. for a long time, a lot of this country voted as a bloc, which is becoming less and less the case all the time. we tend to approach hispanic voters and other demographics in the same way, if i just touch these three or four issues, i will win this demographic, the vote of this demographic and that is just

not true. the so-called hispanic vote in this country is way more complex. >> and it showed itself this time around, the path on the issue of immigration, to bring you back to that, they said democrats have this almost patronizing assumption, well they are with us on immigration. >> yep. >> many latino americans have experienced what it looks like to have this flood of migrants. wait a minute, we came here legally. we think there should be a legal process to get into this country. we think immigration is great and helpful as a country but as ronald reagan said, there has to be a process. how do democrats win back the argument with deals like donald trump has captured it when he won this election? >> i think the key is to embrace comprehensive reform. border security, take care of the daca population, a path to citizen for people who have been here 10, 20 years who committed no crimes, have them get on the books, pay taxes and come out of the shadows. all of this is part of a comprehensive package. we have embraced that during the obama years, almost got through the congress, if field

in the house. and, frankly, this is an opportunity for donald trump to try to do the same thing. he would have legitimate bragging rights if he could get a comprehensive reform package through this congress. i know he is sympathetic to the daca population, for example. the daca population is a remarkable group of people. there are people at yale law school who are daca recipients, for example. this is an opportunity for him, if he truly wants to embrace comprehensive and continuing immigration reform. you are watching "morning joe: weekend" and we will be right back. right back. perfect! so now, do you have a driver's license? oh, what did you get us? with the click of a pen, you can get a new volkswagen at the sign then drive event. lease a 2024 tiguan for zero down, zero deposit, zero first month's payment and zero due at signing.

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donald trump plans to reshape the u.s. government as we know it. we know it. ♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe: weekend". let's pick up with the conversation we were having just before the break. >> we have been reporting about donald trump suing various media organizations and we mentioned the "des moines register" and its top pollster,

j. ann selzer. he is suing for brazen election interference and fraud over the final 2024 presidential poll showing vice president, harris leading in iowa, finding out the lawsuit was filed last night. >> jeh, iplayer dumb country lawyer on tv. you are a great city lawyer in real life. >> sometimes. >> mika told me i was too dismissive. >> i just think the overall -- >> you should not say that cbs will not win their lawsuit, the 60 minutes thing, that seems pretty obvious. right here we are now talking about a lawsuit for every pollster? because they got something wrong? i mean, i just, you tell me, is there a judge in iowa or in america that is going to allow that to get past that for

election interference? the answer to that, joe, is possibly, depending on the judge, frankly. we all know about judge shopping. for example, immigration based pro enforcement lawsuits are brought in the brownsville division of the southern court of texas and pro-immigration reform, programmer -- pro- migrant issues are brought to eastern new york. >> what are the chances of him winning that over that pollster? it should be less than zero. >> again, i understand, we had the conversation last hour, the idea is to make yourself a big bear and scare off all the press, but that stops working when you lose lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. i am sorry, it is not my expertise but anybody who thinks that j. ann selzer or

the "des moines register" will ultimately lose on this, i would like to see the vetting markets on that. also, the same thing with cbs. you sue cbs because you don't like how they edit an interview? these are going to be, they will be unsuccessful so the question is, at what point do you start showing they are just frivolous and the press can just dismiss them? >> if it is about a win-loss record on the lawsuit, trump will lose these. it is a distraction, he is using time and energy on that. i think the point is, yes, there are deep-pocketed organizations that will fight these, pay the legal bills. individual and small outlets may not be able to or they get tied up in court. these lawsuits become a drain of resources, distraction. they make you think twice about reporting. that is the point here. he is not going to win. >> what is to stop people from

taking polls in the future? polls he doesn't like. >> he swept through the battleground states and he said this poll, his attorney said, this poll was not i miss, which it clearly was, she had, harris, a huge mess. it was attempted election interference to create energy and momentum around, harris heading into the election. >> here is something donald trump knows. he knows the filing of the complaint will get more press attention than the resolution of that lawsuit. that lawsuit should be kept on a motion to dismiss. >> exactly. why can't they stop talking about it? >> it is a big splash. yes, go back to immigration. >> thank you so much, former homeland security secretary jeh johnson, greatly appreciate your time. up next, jim vander breaks down trump's trevon diggs --

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♪♪ a busy weekend talking to business and political leaders in new york and in london. they all have the same question . who is going to be in control in trump's inner circle because if that is going to move on just five, that is how immigration will be carried out, thousand different policy questions will be asked. you have actually a report on this. it is the divide. this is, again, this is what vexes business leaders on both sides of the atlantic, who is going to have this the most,

the creators or the destroys? tell us about it. >> you understand trump's mind as well as anyone. there is tension right now. the creators are the folks you are named -- you see name to the a.i. jobs, they feel like they can induce economic growth and keep jobless rates low and keep the stock market soaring. if he does that, he feels like he will have a very successful presidency. he would be popular. he would get sort of what he wants out of the white house. the same time, all the people you talked about earlier, all these people who are up for cabinet drier -- jobs who are

more controversial fall into the destroyer category. they are brought in specifically because of their loyalty, partly to do retribution, partly to gut the very agency they are being put in charge of. i think that is a reason you have such jarring moments with trump. i think we will see these wild swings between the two of them. tidying all of your stories together today, think about the drones in the sky, just right now. you have a ton of people sitting on x i think it is ufos or the iranians getting ready to wage war on america. have others paying no attention to it. the president-elect is saying maybe we should just shoot them down. then you talk about hegseth, the defense secretary, worried about awoke military or word about trains in the military. really, the biggest topic and you have had smarter people than me on the set about this, the thing the next defe secretary needs to worry about is drones or related to drones. how do you move as quickly as possible to a type of warfare that is waged in space with satellites, with drones, with new technologies, less dependent on boots on the ground, much more dependent on getting the best and the brightest in the government to

figure out how do we take this advantage we have over china, we have a big lead over them on ships and the thinking that goes into a.i., how do we take that to make sure our military is even more dominant in the next generation? when you get all down in these small bogged down little things, you lose sight of the big picture, where we do have an enormous advantage going in. >> you talk about this transit issue, again, like 0.5% the military right now is brzezinski. is that, yet, this is his obsession? we have a possible world war breaking out in the middle east. we have a possible world war breaking out in eastern europe with north korean troops down there. i do want to follow up on something you said because this is something i picked up overseas, the obsession and we are not talking about the drones over jersey, we are

talking about the drones over the front between the ukrainians and the russians. the things i heard this weekend about what those drones are doing and how far advanced they are moving is nothing short of extraordinary. it is making so many defense systems almost obsolete right now, jim. you are exactly right. we need to obsess on that, not the 11th century crusades. we need to obsess on bringing order to the middle east and not on 0.5% of those in the military right now. we will get left behind by people who don't know how to run the pentagon. it is astounding. i will say, this is one of the things i kept hearing over and over again. these guys are ahead of all of us. the world is moving on.

are you really going to be focusing on the 11th century, on civil war? that is the question that was repeatedly asked. >> yeah, it is a legitimate question to ask because it does go to what you said. for any dogging of america during the campaign or doing it in books, justifies a logic on the ground. we have so many built in advantages right now. listen, on the good side, if you can get the pentagon focused on what he needs to focus on, i think it is a good thing you suddenly have really smart entrepreneurs thinking about government and trying to apply some of their mind share to it. having the smartest people who built these technologies or understand these technologies, thinking about it and advising the president could be a net very positive thing, if you structure your administration to make sure you are focusing on how to make the advantage we

have bigger and bolder, creating a bigger gap between us and china. that is what victory would be an success for the country would be. when you get into grievance and retribution, that is the type of stuff that does rattle markets, it does rattle world leaders and ultimately the public. the public is too disoriented right now but the public will see this and the public doesn't want people jailing reporter or doing things to defy institutional norms so we will see how it plays out. coming up, as donald trump threatens media lawsuits against outlets and journalists, he is hinting he will come after individual members of the press. we are on that ominous development when "morning joe: weekend" returns. ♪ ♪ returns. ♪ ♪ every home should have salonpas. powerful yet non-addictive. targeted and long-lasting. i recommend salonpas. it's good medicine. ♪ hisamitsu ♪ if you have wet amd, you never want to lose sight of the things you love. some things should stand the test of time. long-lasting eylea hd

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♪♪ i feel i have to do this. i shouldn't really be the one to do it. it should've been the justice department or somebody else, but i have to do it. it costs a lot of money to do it, but we have to strengthenã straighten out the press, it is very corrupt, almost as corrupt as our elections. >> let's work through this. first of all, on abc, a professor, journalist, a professor said, abc should not have folded. they should not have paid the $50 million and at the same time he called the interview a, quote, train wreck. he said it opened up abc to liability so at least there was a case there. that would allow trump's

lawyers to open up discovery and do the sort of things that nobody at abc, none of the journalists would want, you know, turning over cell phones, text messages, emails, the sort of things you see in some cases. so, that sitting right here, j. ann selzer , she doesn't have to worry. the "des moines register", they don't have to worry. they will not get, trump won't get past summary judgment. that will be thrown out very quickly. cbs knows, for their edits, further edits? they did the edit thing on 60 minutes, doing what 60 minutes has been doing for like 60 years, that is not to get past summary judgment. that is going to be thrown out. the "new york times", the "new york times" will sit there and go, they will yawn. thrown out. they will all get thrown out.

there was, as bill and others said, there were mistakes made in that interview that allowed the process to go forward enough for discovery to be opened up. would abc fought to the end of a lot of lawyers think they would have. did abc want to put it behind them for a variety of reasons? yeah. does that mean that ann selzer has to work? no. does that mean the "new york times"? no. bob woodward and simon & schuster, no. you go down the list and they will all be thrown out like that. you can make the threats all you want to make the threats but at the end of the day, we still have a pretty, pretty strong first amendment and that ain't gonna change in the next six months. >> yeah, perhaps donald trump and his team are together emboldened by abc forking over $50 million but these are all very, very different cases from

the abc case, as you just laid out and all those reasons for that. defamation cases, famously and notoriously are difficult to prove. that is one thing people should consider when we hear all this. also, john, we talk about ann selzer, she got a poll wrong and then retired. it is unclear . she conceded she got it terribly wrong there. this does, though, appeared to be about a larger campaign, perhaps, to intimidate, to bring to heel media organizations so they will not be critical of donald trump. when he hears anything critical of me, he goes after them ensues them. >> is joe just ticked through the individual cases that trump is suing about now all seem like nonstarters. but this is about also intimidating us going for, reporters, institutions may not have $50 million laying around to pay. they may just make a reporter

think twice about reporting something or tone down the tenor of their coverage. it does seem like this, this is not just about the past, it is more about the president in the future and a warning to anyone who dares criticize this administration. at the very least, we will make your life hard and expensive. >> absolutely. the irony is, the trump team is talking about freedom of speech, against censorship, yet they are trying to create a climate of fear that creates censorship and bully the media into censoring what they say in advance. it very much mirrors what you try to do with other governments right now in terms of these massive threats, trying to get them to cave and offer up some type of correction. we saw that with mexico, the sudden big grade on fentanyl

supplies and traders. you will see more and more that but i always imagine trump is a bit like someone confronting a bear on a mountain path. they try to make them self as big as possible, growling warmers like and hope the bear will go away. that is what they are trying to do . >> if the "new york times", you are that bear, you are not going away. you could say the same thing about other media outlets, too. again, they tried this before but, you know, the lawsuit against the "new york times", the lawsuit against cbs news, the lawsuit against bob woodward, simon & schuster. those cases, don't you think at the end of the day, those cases will be thrown out of court? >> well hello, i am not a

lawyer, obviously, but you are right. he is stretching the definition of what used to be legitimate lawsuits against media organizations and he has gone too far. it has been reported he sent a letter to the "new york times" just before the election, threatening another possible legal action regarding an article i wrote and article some of my colleagues wrote. our lawyers responded to that. i'm not too worried about that. the point is exactly that, he is trying to tie up media organizations that make them think twice. he sued tim o'brien who used to work at the "new york times", he said it wasn't worth as much trump like to believe. they had a whole lawsuit about this. it is hardly the kind of defamation you would normally consider to be defamation, but whatever. of course, he didn't win. he later said he was glad he did it anyway because they cost tim o'brien money, time and suffering and all of that. that is part of the goal here. he doesn't have to win. the strategy isn't necessarily to win but to put people on their heels and pay a lot of legal bills and time. it is not an thing for them.

we are joined with a snapshot of the paper's annual year in pictures. "morning joe: weekend" we'll be right back. right back. gummy vitamins from nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. what causes a curve down there? can it be treated? stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie's disease, or pd. and it could be treated without surgery. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today.

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♪♪ welcome back. 2024 had no shortage of memorable moments and lasting images. now, the "new york times" is out with its annual year in pictures project, showcasing some of the most quintessential images throughout the year from harris and trump supporters reacting to the election results to the devastating consequences of the wars in the middle east and ukraine. let's bring in the photography editor of the "new york times" to help us put this all together. he is also coeditor of the year in review undertaking. we have eight to showboat there will be a lot more this weekend. are they a measure, how do you choose these? are they a measure of the historic moment we are in, how would you describe this

commutation? >> every year we go through close to 400,000 pictures. >> good lord. how do you choose? [ laughter ] >> it is a combination of beautiful photographic aesthetics and news moments and news events. it is always a balance of those two things. photograph and artistry. >> let's go through them. this is the preview. i hope we can show this. >> this is sunday's news today. >> you have many, many more online posted today. let's start with the election. the first one we have this morning is of trump supporters. what a saying in this image. >> this is by mark peterson, who shop for the opinion section for the "new york times". it was trump supporters on election night in west palm beach, i believe in you know, it captures a lot of the mood of the maga and trump supporters for quite thought it was really beautiful . it was an image that really captured that by.

>> the young men preparing to propel him to the white house. on the other side of things, we have a beautiful shot of harris supporters, as well. what do we see year? >> this is a photograph by damon winter, one of our staff photographers and also shoots for opinion. this was in washington. they were waiting for, harris to do her concession speech the day after. and then it really captured white the moment there, i thought. >> that is a beautiful image. there was so much this year, obviously, happening in the world, too, jeffrey, particularly gaza, the war with israel there. what do we see in this photograph? >> this is a picture by a palestinian photographer that did a lot of coverage in gaza last year. this is a serious, not all children but people that were injured and were getting treatment in qatar. it is a very powerful image of this young child on this, you

know, one of those motorized cars after her leg was amputated. >> let's move to syria and the next photo. it is simply entitled syria rubble. talk about it. >> this was shot by five. it is a really powerful image with the birds flying over the rubble , the damage the asad regime had done to this particular community, it was kind of metaphor to me as birds flying as hopeful in, you know, a new government, you know, no guarantees there, but it is hopeful. >> let's turn to our next picture. it is focused on ukraine, i believe. >> yes. tell us about this one. >> this is one of the howitzer artillery stations in ukraine. it is by our staff photographer

tyler hicks, who is an amazing conflict photographer. he has been in ukraine, you know, for a long, long time. just the energy and that moment of the explosion of the canning going off. it was really powerful. the sun coming through, just very powerful, a dramatic issue. ãbeautiful composition on that. on a happier note, waved from war, the reopening of notre dame. >> this was the rehearsal for the opening. it was taken byfive. it is france, the beautiful notre dame with the lights coming behind it and the river . i assume that is the seine river. >> how many people sit around the table at the "times" and judge these pictures and come

down to what you release? >> me and my coeditor, tanner curtis, who i work with, we worked on this the last three years, i have been doing the section about 15 or 16. then we also review them, probably once every two weeks with the director of photography. >> what you decide, that goes in, like this one here, this one was incredible. >> we knew that would be in the day we saw it. you know, we added the whole sequence. you can actually see the bullet going by his head. yeah, you know, the day i saw that, the day it happened, we know. >> let's take a look at the next one. it is a soldier with

an american flag. i actually want to read the quote from the photographer here. this was a reverent moment, the families were about to participate in a funeral they have been waiting years for. it was a somber experience and good the man was getting the respect he needed i wanted to get as close as i possibly could to show the contrast between the hands and the flag. this is by alyssa pointer. can you say more about this? it is a beautiful, seemingly simple image, but very direct, a nice change of scale . this was a soldier, a black soldier, who was killed in 1941, i believe him a bio white military police officer. this family has been waiting, actually, probably decades, for this official funeral. it was a very powerful moment, i thought. up next, we got your backstage pass to broadway's holiday season. you won't want to miss it. stay right there. ♪ ♪ there. ♪ ♪

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♪jingle all the way ♪ what fun it is to ride on a one horse open sleigh ♪ so fun. that is a look at last year's

radio city christmas spectacular, featuring the world-famous rockettes which takes place every year at radio city music hall. this year's spectacular runs through january 5 and is a must- see production taking place in new york city this holiday season. joining us now to help us, emmy award-winning host of on stage on spectrum news new york 1, good to have you back on the show. >> good morning, you guys. so happy to be here. >> we need fun things to do. >> yes, we do. you're looking at one of them, the radio city christmas spectacular. it is still going strong all these years later. >> it is iconic. it is iconic. >> it is iconic. 70 million people have seen the show since the first one in 1933. >> come on. >> that is amazing. there are drones, there are new scenes, living nativity, everything you want for christmas is in the shop right around the corner. >> the new york pops christmas concert -- >> that is happening friday and

saturday night, one of my favorite holiday traditions. this year their guest artist is one of the stars of hell's kitchen. she just released a new album. we could see her collaborators in this concert on that album but a glorious orchestra playing in carnegie hall, it doesn't get more christmas than that. >> whoopi goldberg is great. she just got a rave in the times. she is playing in the touring production of "annie" at madison square garden out to the end of the year. >> we had the stars here recently. let's talk about your favorite shows of the year. >> on sunset boulevard starring nicole sure singer, have you seen it yet? no. no. no, we haven't. we are getting a view. >> we got to see it. our friends have gone and nothing but rave reviews. >> it is a brand-new production. they cracked over the this in the mid 1990s. andrew weber's glorious score,

nicole is a tour de force. i would compare this to barbra streisand in funny girl, once- in-a-lifetime performance. she plays opposite of tom francis. unbelievable. >> >> i haven't seen "oh, mary!" . >> the devil wears prada opened in london. >> i want to see this. >> jerry mitchell, who directed it and kinky boots, comes to this production.

i think you could wait to see it on broadway. i am sure it is coming. >> it is coming. is coming. five standing ovations later it's a huge, huge hit because e, remember, the brits did les miserables. this is a french production and it's a huge hit and there will be more life for that after it closes. >> and that's it for us this weekend. we're back tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m. eastern for a brand new week of "morning joe." thanks for watching. good morning. it is sunday, december 22nd. i'm elise sa menendez with simone and michael. alet's left a mess for mike