years. >> a little bit of a slip there. when it comes to the shopping numbers, we've seen strong numbers come in. black friday weekend did break records in terms of nominal dollars but with inflation everything is more expensive these days so it is not shurping that it would break records but as people do say that economy doesn't necessarily feel that great, at least as of the many cases i was at the mall, it seems like there was a lot of activity out there. >> brian cheung, thank yo do it today, thank you for watching, i'm happy holidays and chris jag picks up our coverage right now. picks up our coverage right now. it is the calm before the political storm. big promises and even bigger ambitions. donald trump simultaneously

planning a new year's bash and a new government come january 20th. but what does that mean for the closing days of joe biden's presidency? and could either man has some surprises in store between now and then? plus, holes in their argument. russia tries to blame everything from fog to a drone attack for the plane crash in kazakhstan. but the evidence points to t damage in the tail. a russian strike. the latest on the investigations, straight ahead. and israel switches its focus to yemen. the last of its proxy group still standing with hezbollah and hamas largely out of the picture now. israel's prime minister says the fight there is, quote, just getting started. so how long will it last? l we start with a > presidential split screen. donald trump reposting a suggestion from newt gingrich that he is now the de facto president, even as the actual commander and chief joe biden is receding from public view.

despite the fact he is in office for 24 more days, biden has kept a low profile. right now, vacationing in st. croix. he hasn't spoken extensively to the media for more than a week. trump has not spent much time in front of the cameras either. but he stays in the headlines by posting a dozen times a day or more asking "where are you?" suggesting bill gates is invited to mar-a-lago. all that previewing what is likely to be a unpredictable start to his presidency, with the possibility he will sign dozens of executive orders on day one alone. this is just a sample of the nearly 60 things he has promised to tackle on january is 20th. and, by the way, it is not even a full day. e he takes the oath at noon. he but he is promising to deal with everything from the border and vaccine mandates to

inflation and the ei policies. good to see you, aaron. howard donald trump's plans for his presidency taking shapei behind closed doors? what do we know? >> we know the president-elect wants to put some focus. we should expect him to start rolling out new policies and executive orders within a couple of hours of being sworn in on the 20th. immigration we know has gotten a lot of focus. right? mr. trump did face them backlash for his separation. but immigration was a top issue among people who voted for him we know according to a nbc news exit poll and his new borders are told us that trumps homeland security team is handling this week at mar-a- lago. they're putting finishing touches on plans for some of these executive orders to make good on his campaign promise to

close the southern border for example. to carry out what he calls the largest deportation operation in american history. we know that could include american detention centers. it could lead to some families a being separated again. we saw that the first term. the ultimate plans are going to cost money. these plans will gbe data driv he said. the president-elect is also expected to tackle some other issues very early on, if not on day one. he has talked about ending the war in ukraine. he talked about pardoning january 6th convicts. he talked about taking transgender people out of the military. climate policy. all these things. it is a intensive list. chris, i think between now and generate 20th we will start to get a picture of what the president's biggest priorities are. >> aaron gilchrist, thank you for that. joining me now, former florida republican congressman david jolie. washington bureau chief.

tia is bureau chief for the atlanta journal-constitution. great to have all of you here. it has been a bit since you andi i talked, but we saw each other not so so long-ago. look, we were talking a little bit about this then. but now dozens of times we just put it in a graphic. donald trump has deal to deal with this or that on day one. so what todoes your reporting tell us about where exactly he is prioritizing. where is his focus? >> his focus is all over the place. just remember when he was president the first time. he overturned a lot of executive orders from then- president barack obama. he is going to do the same in this moment with this time joe biden. but two or three issues really stand out to me. closing the border. okay? making sure the southern border is closed.

and then also starting to cut inflation. that is a contradiction. because once you cut the southern border, there is a balance in the economy and many economists have said it is a balance in the economy to have migrant workers here in this country. so how do you stave off inflation by shutting off migrant workers? that is something i would like to see worked out. then the next piece. revoking the ei. now, ei. now, any education system in this country or anything that has federal funds that is promoting and endorsing dei, diversity, equity, and inclusion, the president plans revoke federal dollars. what is that saying? he goes back to something i thought about with carter g. woods and his book "miseducation of the negro." now, resident like donald trump is going to make it

worse. >> axios described all of this. summarize some of it really well. they call it a really shock and awe campaign to lay the foundation for his second term . you think of day one more about changing policy? a pr event to generate headlines? could it be both? what are you looking for on january 20th? >> yeah. i think three mechanisms of the traditional how a bill becomes a law. that can't happen on day one. regulatory rulemaking. that cannot happen on day one. so what can happen by executive order or executive action? and you do see every president who has come in, in recent times, with a list of executive actions. from entry to april's comments,

what could he do with executive action? he could revisit the stay in mexico policy and do some things around the border. he will probably cancel some of the union requirements when it comes to federal contracts. there will be some areas where he can really lean in. he can do tariffs on day one as well by executive proclamation. i think they have a lot lined up. he will do it to make a statement about the new direction of the country. but what i am really looking for, chris, day one through some type of executive direction revisit what he is promised, which is to prosecute his enemies. all this chatter around liz cheney for instance. does he make the bold proclamation that his department of justice is going to go after political enemies? he has promised to do so. it would arguably be full unconstitutional. we saw carnage on day one of his first administration.

what do we see on this one? it may be political prosecutions. >> you have said donald trump has flipped. you are a good person to talk about the folks out there who said donald trump is going to make life better for them economically and otherwise. the conventional wisdom is that trumps now in his second term will understand more about how washington works and he will be more aggressive from the get go. is that what folks who voted for him are looking for? do you think he does understand better now than he did in his first term how to get things done? >> so there are two ways of thinking about this. on one hand, people think that donald trump is of the four years of experience. he has got good advisers by his side like susie wiles who can keep them focused and on track. the other way of thinking of it is that a lot of the checks and balances that existed during his first term don't exist as strongly anymore. duck anymore

the supreme court is more conservative. more maga. more republican. the question is how does he decide to forge ahead? what does he prioritize? i will tell you, the voters in georgia, the voters generally nationwide, went with trump mainly on his economic message, which was tied somewhat with his message about the culture wars and immigration, but it all still came back to the economy. they expect him to bring down the price of goods. to make gas more affordable. making purchasing homes and cars more affordable. that is what they are looking at. prices at the grocery store. and if there isn't a quick change there, i think people will feel like they were disappointed after putting their trust in donald trump for another term. >> we don't have too much on the stock market but i can tell you the dow right now is down

about 500 points. is that what you said? there it is. there is the dow down 510. so, april, there is a story today about how donald trump is preparing to wade into the fright for work from home. he wants all federal workers back in the office. there is no doubt that is going to create big push back right away, including a union fight. remind us. does public support matter to trump? if a policy is unpopular, he does not have to run for re- election. right? if a policy is unpopular, could that change his thinking? >> the court of public opinion definitely matters to this president. i think about what happened to matt gaetz. matt gaetz said he does not want to be a distraction to the president. guess what? the president accepted his pullback from his nomination for the department of justice. i remember it was public outrage during a gun shooting one president-elect donald trump was president. and he had this big white house

east room for him and was talking about, i want to do this. he sounded like he was more pro- gun legislation than he was pro- nra. and then i guess after that the nra talk to him because he was listening to the course of america and seeing kids get shot and then he wasn't to the nra and changed his tune. he listens to media. he could be watching right now, chris, on msnbc. the court of public opinion is very important to him as a man who reveres his brand. remember that. his brand is everything. if people are disinterested in what he does, if it is a large number of people, he might change his opinion. >> that brings me to joe biden, if i can, congressman. he has kept a low profile.

he has not been out there. he has not been doing like a big final press conference. april and i remember when barack obama did that one and touched on everything. he had those high profile pardons, which leads me to this question. do you think in his final days, final couple of weeks here, do you think joe biden continues as he has been, or do you think he has something else up his sleeve? >> it is a perfect contrast between donald trump and joe biden. donald trump chases the sizzle but does not worry about second and third order effect. he does not chase down prices but will try to get money moving and create greater economic growth but will sacrifice long-term stability and unsettle some world markets. joe biden, on the other hand, has showed us what sober leadership looks like. the themes of his presidency. he restore democratic norms in

the country after the first four trump years. he grew the economy by introducing real wages. more people went to work than ever before. then invested in infrastructure. homeownership remains at all- time highs. but he did it slow and steady to make sure that we do not crash the car as he was doing this. and on a world stage, when wars were breaking out, he used just the right amount of western influence in both the u.s. the u. middle east and ukraine to show they have the opportunity. now, there is criticism certainly in the middle east. people have said maybe he should have tried to do more. but, ultimately, what he did is kept us out of the complex while realizing these are real, sober world conflicts that need to be engaged in. donald trump will end up the worst, ultimately, to vladimir

putin. biden will end how he came in. sober. steady. within the norms of the president. >> happy new year. i will not see you before then. but thanks for being on the program. happy kwanzaa. absolutely. in 90 seconds, how the head of the world health organization was caught in the middle of israeli strikes at the biggest airport in yemen. but, first, another south korean president has just been impeached. what it means for a key u.s. ally. u.s. ally.

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♪♪ learn more at dexcom.com are following that stunning new development from south korea where the national assembly has voted to impeach acting president conduct sue. it is the second time in two weeks that south korean lawmakers have voted to out stay president. the deepening political crisis started after the former president briefly impose martial law. he was impeached on december 14th, setting off a leadership crisis for a top u.s. ally in asia. nbc news correspondent danielle is reporting on this from london. so, danielle, what do we know about why the national assemblies decided to vote to impeach the acting president, and is it a move supported by south korean citizens? >> well, to answer your first question, chris, it is because

mr. han refused to immediately fill three judges to the constitutional court. that is who is going to decide what is going to happen to mr. yoon who was previously impeached. is he going to be impeached and removed completely from office because that needs to happen? six judges need to vote in favor of that. or with that impeachment be canceled, so to speak, and will he be reinstated? that is why it is so critical. now, this is not the most straightforward political story but i will try to break it down for viewers. back on december 3rd, then president yoon decided to declare martial law around 6:00 in the evening. six hours of absolute chaos and food. now, martial law would have meant a restriction of media freedom. there were protests.

lawmakers were rushing to parliament, in some cases having to climb to windows to get inside the chamber to vote to repeal to vote against the martial law order, which was in fact the case at 4:00 in the morning. so it only lasted six hours, but enough to cause immense chaos for the days to come. to answer your second question, chris, south koreans have taken to the streets almost every night throughout this month of december. they are celebrating the impeachment of his replacement, mr. han, but they are also calling on mr. yoon to step down. >> so then what happens? is there someone waiting in the wings? >> reporter: well, the finance minister is now the new acting president and what happens then to mr. yoon and mr. han, well, the constitutional court, i mentioned the vacancies. they need six or more judges to

vote for this impeachment. there are supposed to be nine judges and there are currently only six, which means that you only need one judge to vote against this impeachment and mr. yoon will be back in office and you can imagine what the reaction will be back in the streets of south korea, chris. also, today, the backlash following israel's major air assault in a retaliatory attack against with the rebels. the strikes targeted the capital and key infrastructure and came with a warning from prime minister benjamin netanyahu that israel is just getting started, calling the who sees the terrorist arm of iran's axis of evil. the head of the world health organization said he was close to the international airport attack and had one crew member injured. joining us now, brad sanchez in tel aviv. what is the latest on the ground in israel?

>> reporter: this was the most extensive set of strikes we have seen in yemen so far. israel hitting a number of ports. several power stations. but, also, critically as you mentioned, the main international airport in yemen at the capital. they say they were targeting military structure at that airport. they say it is a key transit point for iranian weapons being smuggled into yemen. but it is also an absolutely key lifeline for humanitarian aid in a country that has been basically in a really humanitarian crisis for more than a decade now. and as you mentioned, the director general of the world health organization was on the ground. he was about to take off when this is really strike began. he said he was not harmed. his immediate team was not harmed. but a u.n. aircraft crew member was during this israeli strike. the flight was aborted.

they had to stay an extra day in yemen. they have now reached the safety of jordan. the secretary-general of the united nations saying, he is deeply alarmed at how close it appears thchsenior u.n. official came to being killed by an israeli strike. we asked the israeli military earlier, did you realize that this humanitarian team was inside the airport when you struck. they did not respond to comments. >> thank you so much. and coming up, the newest details into the investigation of the deadly cause extent airline crashed. the deadly details about what could have brought that plane down. plus, vladimir putin suggesting he is open to slovenia hosting peace talks with ukraine. but will ukraine sign on? the impact on families and children. lies and chil dren. now i have. ♪ i've got places to go and i'm feeling free. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪

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airlines says that fiery crash that killed 38 passengers on christmas eve was caused by "physical and technical external interference." these new images show holes in the side of the jet's fuel solange. they appear to be shrapnel damage. evidence the jet may have been down by a russian anti-air defense system. so, steve, we know the presidents of kazakhstan and

azerbaijan spoke this morning. what do we know about it? >> reporter: as you mentioned, the heads of state sharing a phone call this morning. mainly, it was in exchange of condolences. we do not have the details but we also know there was an update in the progress of the investigation that is really still in its infancy at this point. meanwhile, the statement from the carrier as you were citing. physical and technical external interference. the airlines have now also extended flights to seven cities in russia over safety concerns. speaking of russia, a member of the aviation department is saying during the incident, the area around airport was "very complicated," and added that ukrainian combat drones were taking combat attacks at the time. they also noted they tried to land the plane but were

unsuccessful. all this while a u.s. official says there were early indications the plane may have been hit by russian antiaircraft. and that aviation expert we spoke to as well collaborates all that. the kremlin, of course, saying this is all speculation until there are more conclusions from the investigations. the sediment that was echoed by the cause asked. cause asked. we know this morning that investigators are coming to the ground data, to the wreckage, to the aircraft data. confirmed that they have recovered a second black box and will hand it over to the relevant authorities. but at a minimum, that data takes a long time. at least two weeks to sort through. chris? >> critically important information they have in their hands. steve, thank you for that. targeted ukraine's inverted tree inverted tree energy infrastructure. ukrainian citizens and soldiers exhausted by years of war left

wondering this holiday season when they may see a reprieve from the fighting, and they are hoping obviously for an end to the war. join me now, dr. irwin, head of the children's project. just returned from what i believe is your seventh trip to ukraine and poland. i do not need to tell you, this war has been going on for almost three years now. let's just set like a baseline. what impact has it had on children in ukraine and those who fled ukraine. what did you see on this trip? >> well, hi, chris. it is complicated because children are highly vulnerable to all the impact of the seemingly now endless war, including lots of physical injuries. lots of children have been killed. made rounds in the children's hospital in love reeve, ukraine. . over and over, we see the

ravages of war on severely injured children. but -- and psychologically there is of course an impact as well. lots of children suffering from posttraumatic stress and so on. on the other hand, which is why it is so complicated, chris, children are absolutely amazingly resilient. as soon as they get a sense they are safe, their families are safe, they may be missing their dads who are at work, and we heard a lot about that from different children, they bounced back and they are looking forward to school and learning and interacting with their friends. but, at the end of the day, this is a heartbreaking situation with enough sprinkling of hope to make us want to keep supporting the children of ukraine. >> as you were talking about some of the resilience, we were

seeing pictures of the dancers, who seem to have a audience of school children. there it is again. but we also saw a man who seemed to be in an intense conversation with you and you said they talk a lot about their dads who are missing. tell us about the conversations you have with these children. i was thinking about the very early days, maybe after your first trip, and the idea that they had so much hope that they will go back to their homes and back to their towns. i wonder if they still feel that way. what is on the minds of these children who have survived? >> well, we spent a lot of time when we got to the region in poland at what is called a weekend school for ukrainian children refugees were part of the population who escaped ukraine early on and went to poland and other countries in europe. and, you know, what we are seeing now are children who have been away from ukraine for

almost three years. a lot of them are getting assimilated into life in poland or the czech republic or germany or wherever they are. we wanted to support this school. however, that reminds them they are ukrainian. many children are hoping to go back, but not all. and we are actually working on the ukrainian government with programs that will help remind kids of their ukrainian heritage and how important they will be to the recovery of ukraine. i think we need to appreciate more how young people and kids will be responsible for helping to really rebuild ukraine after this terrible war. >> if i can interrupt you there because we only have a minute left, but i am curious. is there even the possibility of slovakia hosting piece cox between russia and ukraine? give you any hope at all?

putin says he is open to it. some people think maybe he is giving that hundreds of thousands of russians have died. how do these children find hope? >> first of all, russia has a lot at stake in this war. they have lost probably 700,000 soldiers and of course many people have died or been injured on the ukrainian side as well. so both parties want to get out of this conflict hopefully. the big open question is how will donald trump reform regardless of who else is actually hosting piece negotiations. all eyes will be on trump and what he decides to do. you know? who knows what that will be. hopefully, ukraine will be able to retain its independence, retain its status as a very important democratic ally of the united states and europe, be able to join the european

community, and get on with rebuilding that really quite fantastic, inspiring country that is under siege by a very aggressive russia. >> dr. irwin redlener, thank you for all the work that you, and we saw your wife, karen, sitting next to you, have done for the children of ukraine. >> thank you. coming up, the new grand jury indictments for the man accused of setting on fire a new york city subway. city suby the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti... he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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the man accused of burning a woman to death inside a new york city subway train has just been indicted. 33-year-old sebastian zapeta now faces state charges that include four counts of murder and one count of first-degree arson. here is the brooklyn district attorney earlier today on the severity of the charges. >> he is a significant count, murdering the first degree. carries the possibility of life. the most serious statute in new york state law. very confident about the evidence in this case. then >> prosecutors allege that zapeta said the woman on fire with a lighter on sunday and once she was in flames, he fanned the flames with his shirt. joined me now, district

attorney and legal analyst catherine christiansen. it is hard to overstate the horror of this story. the suspect is facing one count of first-degree murder. three of second degree murder. one of arson. what do these charges tell us? >> these are the most serious charges you can have if you're charged in new york. murder in the first degree would be life without parole. murder in the second degree would be maximum 25 to life. same for the arson in the first degree. so it is a statement by the brookland district attorney about the coolness and evilness of this act of this person who is arrested allegedly committed. we will not get a copy of the indictment in new york. the indictment is not presented to the defense until the actual arraignment on the indictment on january 7th.

that is why we do not have a copy of the indictment yet. >> what type of details is likely to have and what type of details is it more likely to withhold? >> well, unlike the federal system in new york state, the indictments are very minimal by law. it says at this place in this time the defendant caused death. that is it. they are very limited in terms of factual detail. the facts will come out of the mouth of the prosecutor during the arraignment. all the indictment will say are the charges and a bare-bones amount of facts. that is the law under new york state in criminal procedure law. >> so people who knew zapeta at the shelter, he was living at a homeless shelter, say he was a very heavy drinker. he reportedly told police he does not remember what had happened. he had been drinking. even if that is the case, can

he build a defense around that? >> voluntary intoxication is not really a defense in new york that will clear him of homicide charges. the defense, after they get all the discovery, is going to craft what kind of discovery this is going to be. will it be a mental disease and defect defense? some kind of intoxication that made him have a disease? they will determine whether or not can we, meaning the prosecutors, can we prove without a doubt prove that he is the person. once they have that, they cannot say it is a "whodunit" case. it is going to be a "why did he do it" case. then they will see all the video surveillance, which they are entitled to basically within this month. >> there is one more thing we did learn at the press conference today. police and medical examiners are still working to identify

the woman. she was also homeless. they have been using fingerprints. some advanced dna techniques. they have been trying to retrace her steps. how important will any information about the victim be to the prosecutor's case? >> very important. even if she was homeless, there will probably be people in her life. it is good to know who the background of your victim is. it makes them, you know, more than just a burn victim deceased. it makes them a real person. and they are going to use surveillance to see, when did she get on the train. do they have clear photos of her face? then they might publicize that and hope someone who knew her or was in her life can identify her. >> catherine christian, that case, we are sure to follow.

good to see you. and if you travel over the river and through the woods to get to your family on the holidays, stay tuned. we will get you what you need to know to get home. a delta airline flight had to make a u-turn before takeoff. you are watching msnbc. watchin

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weather with a new storm system making its way into the south and gulf coast. meanwhile, there are avalanche warnings and utah with utah forecasters expecting 18 to 30 inches of snow at higher elevations this weekend. and in northern california, forecasters are expecting 30 feet of surf to smash into the coast. "inexperienced swimmers should stay out of the water. "was quote" no kidding. no kiddig michelle grossman, tracking the forecast for us. okay, marissa. since this morning, i think more than 3000 flights have been delayed. how is flying today? >> reporter: hey, chris. good to be with you. at the world's busiest airport i can tell you from having been here all we, tsa's projection that it would be a busy week

are holding up. but the one thing i can tell you from having been here on the ground as we see that direct impact that severe weather can have, and that was here in atlanta yesterday as our meteorologist is about to describe. we saw the most impact in texas. so there was a temporary ground stop out of those dallas airports. houston, directly impacted. so even here in atlanta, which did not see severe weather yesterday, we saw some delays. of course, those ones that were supposed to be going into texas. that ground stop, not making things any easier for people who are trying to get out. when it comes to travel impacts, chris, we saw bad weather out of the pacific northwest of the country all leading to a domino effect. because you know what flights it is on a tight timetable and affects spread throughout the

country. tsa said it is supposed to be one of the busiest days for airport travel. it is busy here but there's plenty of time for it to pick up even more throughout the day. and, when it comes to holiday travel, we are expecting record numbers. so we do have aaa's projections for when the best and the worst times to travel are. of course, we had a couple of days of break on the roads. don't expect it to be like that today. in fact, we do expect that traffic to start ramping up. if you are one of those who are going to be taking to the roads in any capacity today, maybe you are working and need to get home, the worst time to travel on the roads is 3:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. and if you are in a weather- impacted area, make sure to take it slow and safe out there. >> maybe you are doing winter sports and want some snow. what are things looking like?

>> hi there, chris. we are looking at some dicey weather today. unfortunately, the weather not cooperating in many spots. out west, we have been talking about this storm because we have seen a parade of storms out west. we will continue to see more storms during the weekend. a whole lot of snow. up to three feet in some spots. and up to 5 inches of rain in some spots in the midwest. then south central states, we are looking at showers. closing down the roadways. portions of florida college see some showers as well. otherwise, the northeast, we are dry for now but that will change throughout the early part of tomorrow morning because we are looking at a glaze of ice as we go throughout portions of the northeast. that is okay. we are looking at road traveled. a problem in portions.

intermountain west or the northwest. also great lakes down to portions of the south central states. 18 million people at risk for strong winter. tonight, we're looking at 3 million people. decent hail as well. so, chris, this is something i want to highlight because it will be a big story as we go throughout saturday. >> marissa parra, thank you so much. are you feeling lucky today? you have the chance, however slim, to win a billion, yes, billion with a "b." but, of course, you would have to be very, very, very lucky to win. tell us more about tonight strolling. >> reporter: the odds are so slim you have an even better chance of getting struck by lightning. not to diminish all hope, but your odds of winning the jackpot prize of 1.5 billion

are 1 in 1.2 billion. the odds of winning some of those smaller jackpot prizes, 1 in 24. the bottom line here is you have to play to win. i have to admit, i indulged not just in this one i am holding is my prop here. it has actually increased. some breaking news. it has increased to $1.2 billion. an even higher jackpot than we would have actually expected. it will be potentially a very good day for someone who is buying these tickets. that does not change the odds. 1 in 302 million. >> usually when we get breaking news, it is not good news. $1.2 billion. i think it is roughly half you would walk away with if you decide to take a lump sum. i don't know.

do we have time to ask? all right. i am curious. when you talk to me about who has won big lotteries, there is a downside. everybody want something from you. so are there places where if you buy a ticket, people don't have to know who you are, that the winner is not revealed? >> reporter: that is exactly right. so some states here in the northeast offer some anonymity. so you don't have all those thousands of cousins coming out of the woodwork asking for some of the thai. delaware. neighboring new jersey. you can remain anonymous here in new york so if someone is lucky enough to win it. maybe me. maybe you. you would have to come forward. the question i have, chris, is if this ends up being the winning ticket, i am coming to work tomorrow. are you? >> no. a billion dollars is where i draw the line. anything under a billion,

maybe. i would be apartment hunting is what i would be doing. next hour, could peace talks be on the horizon to end the war in ukraine? former ambassador to ukraine william taylor will weigh in for us. for us.

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to end the war in ukraine? slovakia's surprise offer to hold peace talks embraced by vladimir putin. we just got fresh reaction from white house officials. plus, take a look at the wild scene out of south korea pushing on the floor of parliament as lawmakers vote to impeach yet another leader, the second in less than two weeks. what happens in now? and no tsa screening, no boarding pass and no ticket. so how did a stowaway make it onboard a flight to hawaii packed with christmas eve passengers? the federal investigation underway. our reporters are following all of the latest development. we begin with vladimir putin. opening the door perhaps for peace negotiations with ukraine more than two and a half years into the war. knapps's mike memoli is with the president in st. croix. any reaction from the president or his cabinet?

>> reporter: well, chris, we are getting privately from white house officials more acknowledgment that the likelihood of some sort of negotiated settlement is increasingly likely in the future, especially as we see the transition of power to a trump administration here. but as it relates to the surprise offer from if slovakia's prime minister delivered in person this week to president vladimir putin to host potential peace talks, it is interesting. i was able to ask john kirby about that this morning. he reacted on two fronts. first president putin's comments, saying that putin's comments were vacuous, no one should take anything president putin says seriously about a negotiated settlement because of his actions on the battlefield. kirby pointing to increasingly desperate tactics russia is taking, including with north korean soldiers who are seeing deaths in the ranks of a new per

beak in the kursk region. but then the other way in which administration officials are throwing cold water on this specific offer from slovakia, listen to what kirby said about what is essential for a third-party country to be a part of these peace talks. >> ukraine has to be center stage. we always said any other nation that wants to get involved in helping a negotiated settlement in this war needs to be in complete lock step with president zelenskyy and the people. he gets to determine the circumstances and conditions under which he would do that. >> reporter: now, let's unpack what kirby is referring to here because slovakia is an interesting country relating to european support for the ongoing defense of ukraine and it's fight against russia.

we saw a strong support throughout europe for ukraine for most of the past three years of this conflict, but slovakia just in the last two years has seen a shift from two years ago, when i traveled with the first lady as part of an effort by the administration to thank some of the key european partners, slovakia bordering ukraine, since had an election which ushered a right-wing government in, which is more critical of the continuing support for ukraine. suggesting any third-party needs to be continuing and in lock step with ukraine is saying slovakia is not that partner here, chris. >> all right. so, look, it's winding down. this presidency. when does he go back? i know he has a trip planned to rome. but when is joe biden back in d.c., and could there be any surprises from the president in the closing days of his term? >> reporter: well, the president will be leaving this serene backdrop here in st. croix after

a little bit of r&r, chris, back in washington on new year's day where he does look as the administration officials like to say to run through the tape in his final three weeks in office. he does have that significant trip to rome where he is not just going to be meeting with pope francis pope francis, who he developed a close partnership with since he was inaugurated, then vice president biden traveling there for that inauguration. but meeting with italy's prime minister who is an important player when it relates to potential partnership with the trump administration going forward. she has been a stalwart supporter of ukraine as well. she herself part of a more right wing coalition in power there. the biden administration hoping she will play a more stabilizing role as it relates to european support for ukraine. potential surprises, we have seen president biden unafraid to use some of those unilateral authorities he has especially as it relates to pardon power. he did so of course for his son

hunter biden and more recently for commuting sentences for those on death row as well as those with drug offenses, nonviolent offenses. the administration said he is not done yet. we may see that in the new year, the president continuing to make news. then we will continue to see efforts to shape the president's legacy. before christmas the president giving a major speech capturing his economic legacy, economic philosophy about building the economy, focused on the middle class. we can expect a similar address as to re lates to the issue we are talking about, foreign policy. the president wanting to continue to stress the importance of our alliances and of continuing to support democracies around the world, chris. >> thank you. s it is a beautiful backdrop. let's talk some breaking news because there is chaos in south korea. lawmakers impeaching their second president in less than two weeks. nbc news international correspondent danielle is following that story from

london. the latest acting president had only been in the role a short time. so what happens now? >> reporter: well, what's happened now is that the finance minister, choi son muck, is the new acting president and he is a veteran technocrat having been in the finance ministry for 30 years. the first thing he did was express his heartfelt apologies to the public and said that he felt a deep sense of responsibility for the current situation. he has urged the public servants to ensure continuity and stability. he held a national security council meeting that was one of the first official duties he did. he is expecting to stay in the role for a few months since the constitutional court has 180 days to figure out what to do with two presidents prior to him. so mr. yun, who had declared

martial law the night of december 3rd, and that was only, of course? place for six hours, but, boy, a tumultuous six hours. he then apologized for it in the following days, backtracked and said that he would defend his decision and he would fight until the end. he is under investigation. his replacement, mr. han, was impeached today and quickly the reason for that, because he refused to immediately appoint three justices to the constitutional court. why this is so critical and relevant, it's the constitutional court that is going to decide what's going to happen to mr. yoon. is the impeachment going ahead and will he be removed from office or will it be overturn. if to so, he will be reinstated

in the president's chair, which will cause no doubt mass protests in south korea. chris. >> danielle, i know you will be following it for us. thank you. let's go to seattle now where we are. let's see, we are -- are we going to seattle? are we going to seattle? okay. we are learning -- i wasn't sure if we had our reporter. another stowaway, this time on a flight to hawaii. nbc's morgan chesky has that story. >> reporter: this latest incident raising new security questions at airports nationwide, especially as this holiday travel rush starts to heat back up. in this case, authorities say that the individual somehow made through standard tsa security screening and got on a plane without so much as even boarding pass. all of that now at the center of an ongoing investigation. as millions prepare to fly back home post-holiday, security at seattle's sea-tac airport now

the focus of a federal investigation. the case opened following a christmas eve studio away. authorities say made their way on to a delta flight bound for hawaii without a ticket or even a boarding pass. the delta crew discovering the unidentified passenger before takeoff, prompting the pilot to return to the gate. the arlg saying the staff followed procedures to have an unticketed passenger removed flight and apprehended. they used cameras to track the individual into a bathroom after everyone deplaned. >> it's scary this time of year when there are so many passengers flying and makes it easier to make mistakes. it makes you think. >> reporter: tsa confirming the person passed standard screening and didn't possess any prohibited items, but somehow bypass the identity verification and boarding status stations. >> there is no such thing as perfect security system. each time an incident like this happens, everyone must work together to strengthen those

vulnerabilities. >> reporter: the day before thanksgiving, authorities say a woman exploited security weaknesses at jfk international to board a delta flight. the 57-year-old russian national facing federal stowaway charges. she has not entered a plea. keith jeffries says determining intent is crucial. >> you see these incidents so close together. how does it strike you? >> certainly is concerning because it's the holiday season and there is an extra vigilance with all of the elements involved in security. >> reporter: new security questions amid a holiday travel rush that isn't over yet. now, the tsa already pledged an independent review of the circumstances here. meantime, they have opened a civil case against the individual. that is standard protocol fee any time someone violates tsa regulations, which is going to be the focus of what they are investigating going forward. back to you.

>> morgan chesky, thank you. next, putin says he is open to peace talks with ukraine in slovakia, but nearly three years into the invasion is the kremlin really willing to negotiate? the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine will give us his thoughts right after this. rhti. in 30 minutes. you got this. one — remember, i don't want surgery for my dupuytren's contracture. two — i don't want to wait for my contracture to get worse. three — i want a treatment with minimal downtime. four — i want a nonsurgical treatment. and five... and if nonsurgical treatment isn't offered? i'll get a second opinion. let's go! take charge of your treatment. if you can't lay your hand flat, visit findahandspecialist.com to get started. ♪♪ ♪ with verizon, trade in any phone, any condition. to get started. it's your last chance to get iphone 16 pro, on us. and ipad and apple watch series 10. all three on us. only on verizon. knock, knock.

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the timing is significant of course coming as russian casualties continue to mount and as ukraine prepares for a possible shift in u.s. support with donald trump returning to the white house. joining me now is william taylor, former u.s. ambassador to ukraine. it's always good to see you, arkansas:i want to read to you what john kirby said when he was asked about this just a short time ago and putin's comments. he described him as vacuous and said this is not a man who anyone should take seriously when it comes to saying he ready for a negotiated settlement. are you as skeptical as john kirby? >> i am. the ukrainians have experience negotiating with vladimir putin from 2014 up until 2022, when they invaded. 2014 of course when they first invaded and 2022 when they had the big invasion.

peace talks went on in minsk, belarus. and every time there was particularly on ceasefires the russians violated them. the ukrainians are skeptical about ceasefires in particular when they don't have the guarantee that the russians won't invade again. >> so what do you see as anything or is there anything that could bring these two sides to the table? we haven't heard, by the way, from ukraine yet. >> we haven't, although in the past a couple -- in the past week are two president zelenskyy has indicated that again if he has security guarantee, some reason to believe that the west, nato, the united states will defend him if russia invades again, then he said he is willing to have these conversations. that's a big request, and he's not going to take just a promise. he has had experience with that,

too. president zelenskyy might be serious if he can get that security guarantee. president putin said he would be willing to negotiate in the past and his conditions are ukraine surrenders, gives up territory that the russians don't even control at this point. so it's hard to particular that that seriously. we know he is under pressure. we know putin is under pressure. he is losing troops dramatically, horribly. now even losing north korean troops, a thousand a day. so there is a lot of pressure on him to look for a way out. maybe this is his look. >> you know, you know very well in a few weeks donald trump will be back in the white house. what could you think of implications of a new administration are? do you think u.s. financial and military support are cut or to people like marco rubio assuming he is confirmed mean that u.s. policies could hold? >> it's a great question. we have heard from senator rubio, we have heard from general kellogg, the negotiator,

designated envoy from the new administration to ukraine, and they have got some different ideas. some ideas actually, chris, are stronger than the current administration. that is, general kellogg said in in order to get putin to the table he would arm ukraine in a way that would drive putin to come to the table. so we don't yet know what that's going to do, but there may be some leverage that the new administration has on putin. again, the pressure needs to come on putin to give -- to give it some indication he is coming to the table seriously with serious discussions. >> we are out the of time. quickly, something that you may or may not have heard from mike memoli, the president is going to see the pope in rome and also meeting with giorgia meloni. could that conversation be fruitful towards this end? >> could be. as you indicated, the italian premier has been supportive of ukraine. if you are looking for a

third-party, not the slow vauks, but it could be the italians, it could be others, but maloney is a strong supporter of ukraine. that could be a good conversation. >> ambassador bill taylor, thank you. appreciate it. >> thank you. well, it has been less than a month since assad he is regime fell in syria. those leaders are looking to rebuild relationships in the middle east with the newly appointed governor of damascus calling for a more cordial relationship with israel. joining us now nbc news international correspondent hala gorani. israel is still taking military action in syria even after the regime change, but could that change? >> reporter: well, that's a good question. certainly israel is not signaling that it is about to stop this expansion of its troops in parts of the golan heights, for example. this is the territory that it

annexed in 1981 after having occupied it in the six-day war. and as you mentioned there, we have been hearing from leaders for several weeks now, including the head of the organization that they don't have any dispute with israel, that in fact they would like to have a peaceful relationship with israel, and as you mentioned there, there has been military action taken by israel that, in syria, is seen as very aggressive and that they have doubled their occupation of the golan heights, they are also moving into territory in the southwestern part of syria, and the question is going to be, when there is normalization of relations between countries like the gulf countries, like perhaps even the united states that is signaling it will lift the $10 million bounty on the current leader and the new de

facto leader of syria, will that then make it harder for israel to continue its military expansion into syrian territory? it's something that will be very interesting once donald trump takes office in jan whether or not that will put the breaks on israel's expansion, on its bombing of military, naval military installations in syria. it's something that people in syria are watching carefully. the fact that we are hearing statements that they have no dispute with the government of israel is making it all the more interesting, chris. >> hala gorani, thank you so much for that. and we'll be right back. hat. and we'll be right back. ne. ...follows her example. with key vitamins, minerals, herbs, and whole food ingredients... ...crafted to work with your body. ♪♪ bringing the power of nature... ...into your new chapter. i won't let my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me... emerge as you, with clearer skin.

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♪♪ just hours ago the suspect in the deadly burning of a woman on a new york city subway was indicted on charges of murder and arson. sebastian zapeta-is set to be arraigned on four murder counts and one count of arson january 7th. nbc's sam brock is following this force us. what happened in court today? >> for something this depraved and cruel and difficult to sort of conceive, it's not surprising the charges would be very serious. zap eta, accused of lighting a woman on fire sleeping in an f train subway in new york city is facing four charges of murder and a charge of arson. let's break it down. one charge of first-degree

murder. that carries the possibility of lifetime without parole. three counts of murder in the second-degree. you see the arson charge there as well. this victim's body burnt so badly, it is a jane doe situation. the medical examiner has not confirmed what her identity is. there is that. we also know that zapeta was in court earlier said he had no recollection of what happened but acknowledged alcohol consumption. that's what we know right now. the brooklyn district attorney had some extremely strong words for this type of crime. >> my office is confident about the evidence in this case and our abilities to hold zapeta accountability for his deeds. i want to assure the people of the city that this office had do everything in their power to hold him accountable. this was a malicious deed. a sleeping, vulnerable woman on our subway system.

>> all right. this was hard to hear. he is talking about the vulnerability of someone just being in that position and being lit on fire. so there is a broader conversation going on about subway safety in general. you recall the governor hochul here in new york dispatched 750 national guard to new york city subway, also 250 mta police personnel. there might be messaging that it's safer. this was the 11th homicide on new york city this year. the highest figure for that in decades. so there are other metrics certainly you can look at. 11 murders on new york city subways so far this year, chris. >> sam brock, thank you. a major dock worker strike set to restart next month. the international longshoreman's association has yet to reach a deal in their contract negotiations. the strike could impact 14 ports, meaning that imported goods from around the world could be delayed.

joining us now anchor of worldwide exchange on cnbc, frank holland. what do we know about the status of the negotiations? is there a chance this strike to could be avoided? >> happy holidays. i reached out to the ila, the longshoreman's union and the operators union. no response. last time i checked, it remained a contentious negotiation with a sticking point. that's automation at the east and goufl ports. they need that automation to be competitive with other ports around the u.s. also to increase their profitability on the other side of ief it would take away their jobs or the potential to take away jobs. the previously, the biden administration had gotten involved with the negotiations. they certainly were not mediators. they wanted to make that clear. when i spoke to them, when this tentative agreement was reached, they were involved with the negotiations and both sides, they talked about the involvement of the biden administration. there were thoughts that the port workers, they want a deal done while the biden administration was in d.c.

however, just a few weeks ago we saw a wild card. president-elect trump weighed in on the negotiations saying that he sided with the union workers, basically saying the port operators, he believed they should put aside their plans for automation and instead invest in u.s. workers. a bit of a wild card. the deadline is january 15. as you mentioned we could see a strike on the 16th if a deal is not reached or another tentative agreement to continue negotiations is not reached. >> so, what do we know specifically? what would the folks who are watching, what would the impact be on them? of course, their wallets. >> that's the question. for consumers and investors. that's something we focused on at cnbc. let's focus on the consumers. half of imports into the u.s. come through the east and gulf ports, half of automobile imports, 90% of pharmaceutical imports. we don't have hard numbers on, but would certainly be affected, spirits, irish whiskey, champagne, et cetera. on the east coast that comes into the east and gulf ports and

other things like fruits and nuts. those, half of those imported to the u.s. you would imagine a large percentage are brought into those same ports. on the retail side, we talk about sneakers, computers, things like that, i spoke to logistics companies, retail companies pulled for a lot of of the imports they would have coming in in january to get ahead of tariffs and a possible port strike. but the full impact is not known. it depends how long the strike goes. last time the strike was three days. it no real big material impact to really anybody. it was kind of a slowdown of imports and things that had to be brought in. some of the estimates out there, oxford economics is one estimate that a lot of people pointed to. if it the strike goes on for a prolonged period of time, 4.5 to $7.5 billion a week of negative impact on the u.s. economy, chris. >> frank holland, thank you so much. next, the future of speaker mike johnson's house with a

razor-thin majority and his leadership in question, what is the 119th congress walking into? narrator: time is running out to give a year-end gift like no other, a gift that can help st. jude children's research hospital save lives. woman: cancer doesn't care how old you are, and it's devastatingly scary. if you're donating to st. jude, you're supporting finding a cure, because the fight never stops. narrator: every gift counts, and whatever you can give will make a difference for children like gideon. make your donation today to help st. jude save lives.

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♪♪ one week from today, almost to the hour, house members will gather to vote on whether mike johnson will continue as the republican speaker or whether far right opposition will force them to find someone new. it is a potential preview of the kind of grinding intraparty

battles it store as house republicans try to fulfill president trump's demands and do it with an even smaller majority than they have now. and one of the slimmest man teegs in congressional history. joining me former pennsylvania republican congressman charlie dent and former special assistant to president biden meagan hayes. all right. congressman, start there. what will the speakership election tell us in terms of how the 119th congress is going to go? >> well, speaker johnson is starting off with a slim majority. there will be 219 republicans to 215 democrats and already one republican, tom massie of kentucky, said he will not be voting for johnson. i don't believe that johnson can lose any more than that. so if republicans melt down and can't rally around johnson for speaker we could see a fair amount of chaos because it didn't seem to be somebody else waiting in the wings who does have the necessary votes to become speaker.

so right now what happens is if donald trump decides to weigh in and support johnson, that will give his candidacy a boost. but given what happened just before christmas when elon musk and donald trump more or less kneecapped johnson on the continuing resolution negotiated a bipartisan deal, they helped weaken him. now you are hearing leaders of the freedom caucus saying they are uncommitted who they will support. this could be messy leading up so january 6th. they will have to certify the presidential results. >> i want to play part of what republican lawmaker claudia tenney said. >> this is going to be a slim majority. we don't want to go through the speaker battle we went through with kevin mccarthy after he was ousted for over three weeks and several different candidates and we ended up with mike johnson. we carry on on january 3rd and go past january 6th, we will lose the ability to certify

president trump on january 6th which is critically important to advancing the america first agenda. >> i want to remind folks that it took 22 days to find a speaker last time. so, gosh, if it takes the same amount of time it would push it past inauguration day. what do you see happening here? how do you think this is going to unfold? >> i think eventually they will coalesce behind johnson. i don't think there is another viable option here. i think that the republicans are learning how hard it is to govern. you can't govern through sending out tweets or xs or whatever they are called now. elon musk is not an elected member of anything. the white house or congress. and so i just think that folks are learning how hard it is to govern and how much they need to compromise. johnson is the best option now. they don't have someone else to take the mantel let alone if trump supports him or not. if they want to certify the election on january 6th they will figure out how to get behind johnson. >> congressman, it doesn't get any easier once they have a speaker in place, obviously. the "wall street journal" points

out what we have been talking about. the tight math means for the early months of trump's presidency, republicans may not be able to afford more it than one no vote, in a conference that often features intraparty brawls and is trying to pass an am ambitious tax and immigration agenda. practically speaking, what's a speaker, whether it's johnson or someone else, to do? >> well, i think the next republican speaker has to have hakeem jefferies on speed dial because they probably will need him. as we have seen many times, republicans have had a dysfunctional majority in the ho us for the past few years. now, donald trump as president, that dysfunction may be less because trump can lean on them. but just remember there are 30-some votes in the house. we saw this a couple of weeks with the continuing resolution discussion. there are 30-some republicans who will never vote for continuing resolutions to fund

the government or appropriations bills or dooelgs. so they need democrats to help them in the house on any number of issues. so they have to get ready for that and accept it. that's always the cheng in the house republican conference. the hard-liners don't like to do. >> compromise, particularly in divided government. now that we have one party government, republicans controlling the house, senate and presidency, that might help them a bit. again there will always be a few people who won't support the agenda. it might not be hard-liners this time. it could be people from the center who don't want to support something too hard line because they have to wore i about general elections. it can come from a lot of different directions. >> what is the role of house democrats in 2025 and do they hold a lot of power? >> yeah. they hold the ability to get anything done. so if they are willing to compromise on things that are good legislation for working class families and american people, the democrats will vote

with the republicans. i don't think that the continuing resolution and the way they sort of -- the republicans negotiated that and re neglected on their negotiations is a good start for the next congress. that leaves hakeem jefferies in a spot of anxious negotiating. they weren't good faith actors. we could have a stalemate until the midterm elections when the democrats could win overwhelmingly. >> oh, boy, it will be a fun 2025. congressman charlie dent, thank you. meagan hayes, you are going to stay with me. breaking news now about that plane that crashed in kazakhstan. the u.s. has intelligence about russia's apparent role:nbc senior national security correspondent courtney kube has the reporting. tell us about it. >> yeah, chris, we heard from a u.s. official earlier this week that the u.s. had some early indications that a russian air defense system could have brought down that aircraft on wednesday. well, now we are hearing according to two u.s. military officials that in fact there is u.s. intelligence that the

russians may have mistaken that plane for an incoming drone and shot it down for that reason. now, of course on that day, and frankly in many days recently, ukraine has been firing drones into russia. sometimes with great effect. in fact, only about 70 miles where this aircraft went down a ukrainian drone was shot down by russian air defenses, sparking a fire on the ground below. one of the military officials said that could have been part of the issue here with the so-called confirmation bias. that means the russian officials may have been on high alert for potential incoming drones and thereby potentially mistaking the civilian airliner for a drone. of course, 67 people onboard, 62 passengers, five crew, dozens of people were killed, but amazingly, chris, looks as if 29 people survived that crash. some of them even able to walk away. it's still under investigation.

u.s. officials are definitely stressing that point. but at this point there is some cause to believe that it could have been a russian air defense system that shot down this aircraft with deadly consequences because they may have mistaken it for an incoming drone, chris. >> courtney kube with that breaking news. thank you for your reporting. appreciate it. up next, it's not just the midterm and general elections that matter because all politics is local. there are some consequential elections that could reshape washington. we will have it for you right here on msnbc. here on msnbc. ♪ with verizon, trade in any phone, any condition. it's your last chance to get iphone 16 pro, on us. and ipad and apple watch series 10. all three on us. only on verizon. this land is your land. this land is my land.

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in new york city this morning a fire erupted at the bryant park winter village holiday market. several booths caught fire. columns of smoke could be seen several miles. thankfully, no one was injured and the businesses that were unaffected by the fire will remain open. the fire marshal is investigating the cause. of course, the presidential election is over, but buckle up. over the next two years, 38 out of 50 states will hold gubernatorial elections and those races help shape not just state laws, but laws that have the potential to set precedent national little if appealed to the supreme court. we have seen that in cases like abortion. and as president-elect trump heads back to the oval, he could greatly influence those races with his propensity to endorse

candidates. back with us, meagan hayes, also joining us jonathan alter, author of the old goats news let early. democrats have less than two years before voters in three dozen states head back to the polls for governor. the eternal question ever since election day has been, how are democrats going to message to win? do we have an answer to that? >> i don't think we have an answer yet. i think they are working on it. i think with governors in general they tend to be moderate and move to the center as you have seen with the mid-western governors. in 2017 they flipped, i think, eight or nine states after trump took office. those statistics are really good leading into the 38 states having governors up for re-election or election. so i think that statistics are favorable for democrats. but i do think though that the more moderate the democrats will, they will move to the middle and listen to people where they are, work with working clfamilies, do

things -- able to do free lunches for school kids, provide economic opportunities. governors really make a difference and i think democrats are in a good spot to win a lot lot of these races. >> voters in your home state, new jersey, as well as virginia are 11 months away from voting for governor. i wonder if that's going to be one of the first big tests indicate how voters are feeling about donald trump and his administration? >> it always is because virginia and north carolina are the only states that -- excuse me, virginia and new jersey are the only states that have these off-year gubernatorial contests. so we're going to find out, and both will be quite hard fought, not just in the primaries in new jersey, less so in virginia where abigail spanberger and earl sears are likely two candidates from the democratic and republican parties. but these will be very hard

fought in the general election. this coming year. so this is coming up in virginia and new jersey, and new jersey was much closer in the presidential this year, although harris ended up winning there. the last time that new jersey had a gubernatorial race incumbent, phil murphy won by a smaller margin than expected. sitrelli is running again on the republican side. he has a decent chance. in virginia it's a pretty purple state. the outgoing governor, glenn youngkin, is a republican, but virginia has gone democratic in the presidential in recent cycles. so these are going to be closely fought contests and they are going to be kind of canarys in the coal mine heading into the midterms in 2026. >> meagan, talk about another governor, north carolina's

democratic governor roy cooper. he is going to leave office in a few days, term limits. he has had a successful tenure in a purple state. do you think there are lessons from him for other gubernatorial candidates, particularly those in purple or even red states? >> yeah, absolutely. i think that governor cooper worked with the republicans to get a lot of things passed that were impacting his state with an economic agenda. i think if you look to the race that -- won, just won, he went to all corners of the state and talked to people who feel forgotten by both parties. i would sense that cooper also did the same thing. he is a rising star in the democratic party and i think that whether he runs for senate or president i think that the democrats are lucky to have someone like roy cooper who is more moderate and where the electorate is in the country. >> i asked before messaging and whether it's messaging or fundraising, you talk to a lot of democrats, they are waiting to see who will emerge as the

leader in the party. there will be at least in some sense a leader when the dnc gets a new chair. how important is that, and how difficult is it for the party to be without somebody who everyone looks to, to be the voice of leadership, whether it's dnc chair, which to be frank isn't, you know, typically the voice of the party, but joe biden's going away and so who is there? >> there won't be a leader until the primaries in 2028. that's just the way it works in politics. hakeem jefferies, who, you know, could become speaker of the house two years from now if the house changes hands, he is the closest the democratic party has to a leader right now. chuck schumer less so. otherwise, it's premature to expect that somebody's going to emerge and everybody goes, this is our new leader because even if somebody is throwing heat out

there on the stump, it's far from resolved that that person is the leader of the party. so, it's really, it's asking, i think, too much of leading democrats to say that one of them should be expected to emerge anytime before four years from now. >> meagan hayes, jonathan alter at the end of a, let's say, eventful 2024, looking forward to seeing both of you more in 2025. appreciate it. happy new year. that is it for us this hour. you can watch the best parts of our show anytime on youtube. just go to msnbc.com/jansing. stay close. there will be more msnbc reports right after this. man: i don't about y'all, but when it comes to working from home, i gotta have every part of my house clean. that means tidying up, then spraying my febreze air mist, to leave every room smelling fresh and clean. with that done, it's time to get to work. ♪ la la la la la ♪ with that done, ilike a relentless weed,

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