hey there, everyone. welcome to this special edition " we begin this hour, with the maga civil war erupting over immigration. elon musk and big tech. you have maga immigration hard liners, who voted for trump based on his extreme immigration plans, including mass deportation. on the other sielon musk and vivek and other leaders who

supported trump with millions but rely on immigration for high-skilled workers. they are feuding over the so-called h-1b visa. this feud has evolved into a referendum on american workers. musk claiming america needs more highly-skilled immigrants to win. if you force the world's best talent to play for the other side, america will lose. end of story. vivek ramaswamy coming to musk's defense. our american culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for too long. adding, a culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ will not produce the best engineers. the solution to america's

problems aren't more immigrants and want to close the border. laura loomer writing, allowing big tech executives into mar-a-lago is going to be the death of our country. soon after criticizing musk, loomer said her verification on x had been removed and her subscriptions canceled. accusing musk, a supposed free speech warrior, of censorship. matt gaetz saying of big tech, we did not ask them to engineer an immigration policy. axios saying, the fight exposes one of the deepest contradictions in the maga movement. it came to prominence via the white, less educated working class but is under the full control of billionaire industrialists, many of them immigrants. the cracks in the maga wall starting to show all before trump even steps into office. joining our conversation, eugene

daniels, political contributor, also with us, rick wilson, co founder of the lincoln project. rick, that did not take long. i would love to start with you and get your reaction to this christmas immigration maga civil war that's playing out. we all could see it coming over the last several months. now it has fully exploded into the wide open on x nonetheless. >> it is an inevitability the non- non-college educated base, which is the majority, were always going to be preconditioned to believe that the word immigrant or visa means brown people bad. they have this belief that the guy with the ged and fake

glasses and pickup truck, the universal twitter bro, that guy is thinking, i could have been the senior software designer at google if it weren't for dei or immigration. it's absurd. donald trump relies on that as a core part for service staff. you see this conflict. it's going to -- the hyperpopulists, they don't care about the more sophisticated arguments about the visas. they care, brown people bad. that's the driving conditioning they have had from fox for years. >> it's rich when you see elon musk, who has pretended to be a free speech warrior or absolutist, barely tolerating the criticism of laura loomer -- not someone who has a lot of

respect, not someone who everyone says, that's a champion of free speech herself. here she is taking aim at elon musk, who has stripped her of her coveted verification badge, i guess. >> yeah. i don't think any of this should come as a huge surprise. i think it's worth remembering that elon musk put 200 plus million dollars into this campaign. i think he thought as a lot of billionaires thought it would be transactional and they could give him money and get what they wanted. what they want is skilled workers for their companies. you will see, tesla is the third biggest user of these visas. there's a reason for that. they need the workers. here is the question now. donald trump has a problem. he has a base that has elected him on mass deportation now. they had it on signs.

then he has billionaires who paid for this campaign who want workers. i think this is going to come to a head pretty quickly. >> laura loomer went on steve bannon's podcast to blast musk. listen to what she said. >> i also have a problem with his ties to china. they short his shanghai factory. why does he have unfettered access to president trump? what are the national security implications of this? >> you heard it there. she's basically now questioning and accusing him of disloyalty and being a national security risk to the security of america. >> she sounds like some democrats i have talked to over the years who had issues with musk being around donald trump. it speaks to kind of when you have these sort of alliances built on mostly just winning, not a policy prescription, not a

long list of things that they care about. mostly just winning. it's easy to turn on each other. we saw that in trump's first term. we will see this more and more, especially on immigration. at the end of the day, immigration and the economy are the biggest issues that donald trump's voters cared about. it's the thing that he especially on immigration seems to care about the most about when it comes to an actual policy in this country. he is not going to, it seems, allow -- to me, allow musk and ramaswamy to lead the way on that. he is going to follow his gut on this. more importantly, he is someone who can be moved by a public rancor. that includes people in the maga movement. if he is hearing from folks who have been around for a long time that the maga faithful are upset

because of h-1b or any legislation ramaswamy or musk is for, they may see themselves on the outside. this is one of the things when we reported weeks and weeks ago -- could be years at this point. earlier in the campaign that elon musk was getting frustrating for people. they felt he was going to wear out his welcome. this along with what he created around the continuing resolution are more examples of him trying to exert power in politics that is more nuances than he might understand. >> to that point, if you take what eugene and molly said, elon gave at least $250 million to gop causes in this last election cycle. he pledged more money to spend in the midterms. he can to some extent outflank trump with his influence. even if trump does want to get

rid of musk in his orbit, musk can carry some influence inside republican circles because of the money he yields. that really raises the question of whose wrath do republicans fear more, a second-term president who won't run for office again, in theory, or the guy who has billions of dollars ready to spend to prop up and buy candidates left, right and center? >> i think it's also important to understand the guy that controls the central social media platform for the maga movement. if elon decides, as he is showing with small fries like loom loomer and those folks, take away verification, if he is willing to put his thumb on the scale, he is all in favor of free speech for himself. he bought it. if he controls that platform, he

can cause trump more pressure than laura loomer and these other ranters can cause. i think it's important to remember that the populist movement that's been telling republican voters for a generation -- probably two generations, that immigration is the cause of almost all of the evils in their life, i think molly and eugene are right, he will that from the grass-roots folks. >> to that point, it's the first big test of maga's ability to coordinate and govern. how would you rate their performance so far? >> i almost feel like the first big test might have been when donald trump asked them to shut down the government and then was like, let's get this debt celling raised. that was a whole thing that didn't even happen at all. the problem is, donald trump promised everything to everyone.

he said, i'm going to make things cheaper, i'm going to do this, do that. a lotpromised are note doable. you have the chickens coming host to roost. it's really going to be a problem. i think this immigration thing is almost unreconcilable between the two forces. musk did bankroll much of this. he is not going to go away quietly. >> eugene, we are hearing more from the incoming trump administration over the mass deportation plans. let me play for you and our viewers a clip from the so-called border czar, tom homan. >> parents have to make a decision. i will say it again. if you have a child here in the united states while you know you are here illegally and on the

order to deport, that's on you. most parents will keep their families together. >> it's almost as if he doesn't know even american children, citizens that are american children, have constitutional rights. they are not just simply up to the discretion of their parents' legality. >> that's right. apologies for the phone ringing. that's my grandmother's phone. usually not a problem at my house with the landline. you are right. hearing from him is what you hear from donald trump himself. they look at the blowback they had on family separation. it seems like the fix they have come to is keep families together and everybody has to go. i don't know that's any less controversial, especially when the kids are -- many of them if not all will be americans citizens if they go through with this. this is something that donald

trump learly sees as a fix to one, making clear the promise he made to his voters about immigration and some kind of mass deportation was going to happen. his czar and others will have to put their money where mouth is and get this done. when you at polling, mass deportation kind of polls well with a lot of americans. however, when you dig into what that actually means and then you ask people, your neighbor gets snatched out of their home, or the kid has to go because they are taking the parent out, then you get different answers. this is going to be one of those places that donald trump, who like i said earlier, is going to be moved by public pressure. if the media is too bad around some of this, you might see some squishiness around it. what they are saying right now

is that the fix to family separation is everybody kind of has to go together, even if the kids are american citizens. that's not going to be uncontroversial. this is something when i talk to democrats that they are ready to take the fight on. they think it's something they can win and they can flip the house in a couple of years. >> not just politically but legally i suspect there will be a lot of fights if something like that is attempted or implemented. thank you for starting us off. here is what's coming up. photos like this one, gripping the nation in a year full of compelling stories that came to life through the lens of a camera. new warning signs inside the intelligence community about trump's cabinet picks. new questions swirling about russia's involvement in a deadly plane crash christmas day. all that and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. k break.

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donald trump is set to take office in weeks, creating uncertainty about the future of two major international conflicts. russian officials rejecting a call for a cease-fire in ukraine, but signalled an openness for peace talks. it comes after a plane crash on christmas day in kazakhstan. the passenger plane taking off from azerbaijan on route to russia with 67 people on board. it went down after it was diverted. 38 people died, including passenger and crew. there were 29 survivors. physical and technical external

interference caused the crash, pointing to evidence it may have been downed by a russian air defense system. u.s. officials pointing the finger at russia saying they have intelligence saying russia thought the plane was a drone. russia denying the claims suggesting ukraine is to blame. of course, the war in the middle east. growing fears of that conflict widening as israel houthi rebels in yemen. the assault drawing controversy after an attack while the head of the world organization was traveling in the airport. the tension comes as northern gaza's last remaining hospital is now under siege by israeli forces. go the israeli military stormed ahead and had the hospital forcibly removed health workers, patients and family members as military vehicles surrounded the hospital grounds. join me now, david rode,

executive editor for national security, and david rothkoff who worked in the clinton administration. it's great to have you both with us. david, i will start with you. donald trump pledged to end the russia/ukraine war on his first day in office. that seems unlikely to most experts. how do you see this unfolding once he does take office? >> it's not going to happen, because he doesn't control all the moving pieces there. he never did. putin, while he says he is happy to have talks, has said that he wants to maintain control over the land they claimed, that ukraine can't join nato, that ukraine can't join the eu, that it wants to be protected against possible ukrainian aggression, which is ludicrous, and he is

going to continue to push forward to gain advantage during the talks. the reality is that the person that trump wants to cooperate with isn't going to be cooperative. the ukrainians, obviously, want to fight for the best position they can. the europeans want to support the ukrainians. i think what we're going to have is a long, drawn-out negotiating process and one that could continue not just for days or weeks but for months and possibly years. >> david, let me follow up with that about that russia situation. the azerbaijani plane that went down in a region where russia used air defense systems against ukraine before, what's your take -- early take on what has happened there and what that means for the broader war? >> i think in terms of the broader war, the implications are limited. it's clearer and clearer that

russians accidentally shot down this plane. i would draw attention to the fact that the russians are going to come up with some story, which usually the u.s. would be skeptical of. president trump has said that he wants his director of national intelligence to be tulsi gabbard, somebody who has promoted discredited russian conspiracy theories and propaganda. we may see russia's framing of this in a different way than they would have in any other u.s. administration. >> david, if russia is proven behind this, the crash similar to the 2014 crash of malaysian flight 17 in which russia was also found to be responsible. how should the international community respond? we see what russia is doing intentionally or unintentionally. it does highlight two major problems. no accountability for their recklessness.

two, their incompetence. >> to be honest, i don't think there are many cards left for the international community to play. europe will support the ukrainians. but the u.s. and its allies have unleashed unprecedented sanctions against putin and russia. they haven't slowed significantly the russian war effort. there's very little leverage left. i would also agree that trump came in saying he is going to broker a peace deal between russia and ukraine. but i would agree, this could drag on for months and months. despite the downing of the aircraft, putin and the kremlin will deny any russian role. i think putin will press his hand. he will press trump to give him the best deal possible in ukraine. it's just a very difficult situation. the ukrainians are slowly losing ground. they are also running out of long-range missiles that the biden administration provided to

them. it will be an ugly, grinding ground war that could continue for a long time. trump won't be able to deliver on his promise of a quick peace deal. >> let me turn to the middle east for a moment. right now, obviously, hamas decimated everything. israel turned its sights on the houthis. you have donald trump coming into office. will that embolden netanyahu and others in america who have long set their sights on iran, who see iran now weakened and vulnerable for possible regime change? >> i think there's a very good chance of that. our colleague has been reporting this a long time. he thinks there's an array of hardliners who want the israelis with u.s. help to try to take out the regime in iran.

it has been an astonishing series of set is backs as you s. netanyahu really believes in israeli military power. i think there could be a large strike on tehran. the only wild card is the issue would be chaos. fears of chaos in syria and a sectarian and other strives fe t could happen and what might emerge in iran. i think trump will give a green light for netanyahu to try to hit iran's regime very hard and try to bring it down. >> your thoughts on that very same question and whether a trump 2.0 emboldens netanyahu and others in america, the hawks, who have set their sights on a regime change in iran. >> i think it will embolden

them. i think netanyahu will take this as a blank check. i would add to it that a lot of what we're going to see from netanyahu taking advantage of the blank check is going to happen near or within his own borders. you can see taking over land within the west bank, taking over northern gaza, being much more direct in its sort of internal territorial objectives, perhaps permanently holding on to some of the land it seized with regard to syria. this is the moment netanyahu has been waiting for. things have been going his way in the past couple of months. i think that's likely to accelerate over the course of 2025, certainly. >> two very important international stories we will track closely. thank you so much, gentlemen. career intelligence

officials slamming trump's cabinet picks as unqualified and dangerous. we will explain.

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intelligence jobs. writing in a letter to senators, kash patel's report of executing the president's directives suggests a loyalty to individuals rather than the rule of law. a dangerous precedent for an agency tasked with impartial enforcement of justice. he has threatened journalists. concerns ramping up as trump looks to corrode government guardrails preparing for a second term of retribution. >> sometimes revenge can be justified. everybody on that committee, for what they did, honestly, they should go to jail. joe could be a convicted felon. if i happen to be president and i see somebody doing well and beating me very badly, i say, go down and indict them. i call my attorney general. i say, listen, indict him. >> if you are president, will

you lock people up? >> i will give you an example. the answers is you have no choice because they're doing it to us. >> joining me now is emily basilon and glen kirshner. great to have you with us. what's your reaction to this? >> i think it's really important to think about how william webster comes from a different era of the justice department and independence. he is chosen by president carter after watergate. of course, it's this moment in american history and politics in which the independence of the justice department is directly threatened by president nixon. afterward, congress enacts reforms. one of them is the head of the fbi will have a ten-year term. that is going to insulate him or her in some ways from presidential politics. you have webster serve under carter. then under ronald reagan.

reagan actually picks him to become the head of the cia. donald trump has a fundamentally different view of how the president should be responding and controlling these offices. he wants to take back direct control of the fbi, put his own person in, kash patel, even though the current fbi director's term is not over. i think webster is saying, this is a break from the way we have thought about the independence of the justice department and the fbi since watergate. trump really wants to change and dismantle the guardrails that congress put in place then. >> trump's former deputy national security advisor also called kash patel unqualified. calling him the dictionary definition of a sycophant. is this enough to impact the

confirmation process? or are the republicans too much in trump's pocket? >> a great question. impossible to predict. if we can use how quickly matt gaetz had to pull his name from contention when reporting was there was some behind the scenes resistance from multiple senators, i think that's encouraging. when you look at william webster, it's -- the headlines catch our attention when we are told he was the only person to serve as both the director of the fbi and the director of the cia, which makes him uniquely positioned to express these concerns that he has expressed to congress. even before all that, his well of experience with the fbi is extraordinarily deep. we have to remember, he was a united states attorney in missouri. what did he do? he had to make prosecutorial decisions based on the work of the fbi. he was a federal trial court

judge. he presided over trials at which fbi agents testified and in motion hearings the judge would have been making credibility determinations about fbi agents. then he was a federal appeals court judge. in the event of conviction, he would be tackling issues involving an investigation by the fbi that produced a conviction. he then went on to become director. when he says things like he said in this letter to the senators -- if i could read one line, because this is as ominous and direct, i think, as a recommendation like this gets. william webster told the senators, i urge you to weigh the critical importance of non-partisan leadership and experience. the safety of the american people and your own families depends on it. seems to me that's something the senators should take very seriously. >> let me play for you one more thing. this is what kash patel has had to say about retribution.

>> we will go out and find the conspirators, not just in government but in the media. yes, we will come after the people in the media who lied about american citizens. we will come after you. whether it's criminally or civilly, we will figure that out. >> if patel is confirmed, could this become a reality in america? >> yes it could be. there are still important safeguards, especially from the courts in the united states. at the same time, the fbi in opening an investigation can cause enormous change and sometimes damage to people's lives. you often have to spend on legal bills. you have this shadow over you. it becomes very difficult to just kind of go about your business whether the acquisition ends up leading to a conviction or not. it's important to remember, this is how the fbi was sometimes

used before watergate when hoover was the head of it. hoover was using the fbi for many years to his own ends as opposed to serve the retribution desires of a president. that's what patel is kind of lining himself up here to be. we don't have a precedent for that in american history. but it is possible. >> the trump pressure campaign seems to have gotten skeptical. i know we talked about matt gaetz. do you anticipate the same thing happening here? >> i think you are going to see a robust confirmation hearing. let's think back a few weeks ago when donald trump was suggesting that the senate should go out of session so he could make recess appointments. it looks like they rebuffed him on that request or demand. i think hegseth is going to be examined and cross-examined mightily by senators.

when it comes to kash patel, this is theater of the absurd. when you have somebody who published in his book "government gangsters" what he calls a deep state list, what "the washington post" dubbed an enemy list, and there are 60 people he is going after, let's remember 11 are republicans. it looks like he will be an equal opportunity offender going after democrats and republicans for as best we can tell having committed no crimes. this man should not be in the running for the director of the fbi. >> to pick up on that point, do you think that president biden should pre-emptively pardon some of these names that are publicly known? >> i worry about pre-emptive steps. one of the challenges with a figure like president-elect trump is other institutions and actors around him can overreact or change what they are doing in

ways that distort the system in their own right. i wonder if that is the kind of problem that president biden would set up here with pre-emptive pardons, one can imagine in the future, other presidents, including president trump, might also pre-emptive pardons in ways that do not seem like a great thing for the country. i think that's a set of considerations that's important to weigh here when you are talking about pre-emptive pardons. >> one more example how the norms are constantly being pushed and tested. thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciate it. trump's legal troubles loom as he prepares for the oval office. the most powerful moments of 2024 caught on camera, after this.

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finding a cure for childhood cancer, it means everything. help st. jude give kids with cancer a chance. [audio logo] 2024 has been a historic year. as we look back, images are an integral part of the way we tell these stories. some iconic photos this year will tell future generations the story of 2024. in this year's heated and unprecedented election cycle, this photo of kamala and her niece helped show a credulous nation who harris was. in april, a total eclipse captivated the nation. as the war in gaza dges on, images capture the toll.

here is ricky rogers. a wedding dress amidst the rubble in gaza, what does this image say about 2024? >> we know this conflict is one of two that have come over after the new year last year and continue. life goes on as much as possible in a place like gaza. there are stages in life. one is marriage. there are people that are continuing with their lives in spite of the tragedy that's happening. it's surrealistic to see wedding dresses in the middle of rubble from the bombing. we know from the dateline that it's a place where bombing is constant and people are dying. but there are people trying to carry on with their lives. >> of course, president-elect trump survived two assassination attempts. it was captured on camera.

tell us about this image right after that bullet grazed his ear at a rally in pennsylvania and just the impact it has had on the narrative of who donald trump is and his campaign. >> the strength in this photo comes from the fact that trump looks to be staring down the barrel of the camera. the camera lens. that's not common. we know donald trump knows where photographers are standing. a lot are standing under -- in front of the stage. our photographer was in the back. that gives this image a lot of strength. we know this was a defining -- one of the defining moments of the campaign. trump stepped up. it was quick thinking on his part. he is defiant with his fist in the air and blood on his face. >> a version of that has been

used on the cover of his book. it tells you how iconic it has become in his personal story. the paris olympics captivated the world. what role did photos like this play in telling the story of the olympics and the humanity we see in these moments? >> you know, we expect from the olympics are sport pictures. but these are scene setters. the beauty of that picture that you are showing is clear. also, it took so much planning for the photographer to get that. it wasn't just a matter of stepping out and taking the picture. it was taken from a viewpoint. they used an app to locate where the moon would be at any certain time of the night. lined it up perfectly with the rings.

it's a beautiful photo in the middle of an iconic place that the world was focusing on at the time. >> i was going to say, so many pictures are captured by photographers being at the right place at the right time. this one you think about how much work had to go in setting up and the mathematical science of determining where you need to stand to capture the perfect angle at the right time. it's truly a science to it almost. >> absolutely. there are few apps that allow us to predict where the moon is going to be and the sun as well. >> in a year that has been marked by extreme weather events caused by climate change, tell us about this image showing animals in polluted waters. >> we can't necessarily tie this to climate change. it's about pollution and the environment. it looks like cows walking through the clouds. it looks like such a peaceful

photo. it's toxic. there are toxic piles of foam. it's a polluted river in one of the biggest cities, which is new delhi. it's a fascinating picture to look at, but it's also very depressing. >> i was going to say, most people think of that and their initial instinct to think of it as snow. if you look closer, as you described, it's foam that speaks to the pollution. in some ways, when people see those images -- correct me if i'm wrong, but it's almost easier to understand pollution than it is if you are reading about it in an article or reading about it or hearing about it in some scientific presentation. >> you are absolutely right there. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, donald trump, the first former president convicted of crimes, prepares for a second term.

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legal future. >> they want to put me in jail. >> reporter: trump using his potential imprisonment to rally supporters around his defense. >> our enemies want to take away my freedom because i will never let them take away your freedom. >> reporter: as a candidate, arraigned on criminal charges in new york city, washington, d.c., florida, and atlanta, where a local fulton county jail booked, fingerprinted and photographed him for a mug shot he capitalized on. >> that mug shot is number one. >> reporter: trump turned it into a symbol of his fight for tree dom, freedom. >> every time the communists and fascists indict me, i consider it a great badge of honor. indictments come in rapid

succession. >> i never got arrested before. >> reporter: some trying to benefit from the cases. >> we can't keep living with indictments and court cases and the past. we have to go forward. >> that conduct is indefensible. >> reporter: instead, as trump made his way to new york to face criminal charge s for falsifyin business record s, his narrow lead in the gop primary began expanding. >> it distorted the primary. crowded out so much other stuff. >> reporter: jack smith brought two cases against trump. in d.c. charging him over his efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss. another for refusing to turn over classified documents and trying to hide them from the fbi, leading to federal agents exing a search warrant on his estate.

>> no notice. they raided it. >> reporter: in a separate case brought by james, a judge found trump and his family company to engaged in financial fraud, fining him $460 million. >> he may have authored the art of the deal, but he perfected the art of the steal. >> reporter: a jury in new york finding him liable for sexually abusing e. jean carroll and defaming her. >> he is nothing. >> reporter: another jury ordering trump to pay her more than $80 million, after the judge overseeing the litigation determined that he had defamed her again. as trump called the prosecutions and lawsuits politically targeted, the justice system continued to churn. >> it shouldn't be allowed to happen. >> reporter: major witnesses taking the stand in the hush money trial. stormy daniels, michael cohen, the publisher of the national

inquire other and hope hicks. his political allies, courting public opinion. >> the judicial system has been weaponized against president trump. >> they are not prosecuting president trump. they are persecuting him. >> reporter: after seven weeks, the jury unanimously found him guilty on all 34 felony counts. >> we are projecting that the next president of the united states is donald trump. >> this was, i believe, the greatest political movement of all time. >> reporter: with the result, concerns about immunity from prosecution and the ability and precedent of imposing a sentence on a sitting president, leading jack smith to drop his two cases. federal judges then agreeing to toss the indictments out. his fulton county case on hold. the judge in his new york trial now deciding whether to toss the verdict against trump out all

together or suspend his sentencing date until he leaves office in 2029. vaughn hillyard, nbc news. >> thanks to vaughn hillyard. keep it here. we will take a quick break and be right back. nd be right back. ection underwear. try always discreet! it's rapiddry core absorbs up to 25% faster than depend and fits up to 95% of body shapes. try always discreet! designed to protect.

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this is someone who is increasingly unstable, obsessed with revenge, consumed with grievance, and man is out for unchecked power. >> democrats spent years warning

voters that bringing donald trump back to the white house could be the end of our democracy as we know it. yet days after trump's election win, there was a noticeable shift, lawmakers signaling their willingness to work with him. president biden meeting with trump in the oval office and elected democrats who remain in their seats under the upcoming administration have indicated they will try to work with trump. >> what would i say to him? i would be like, hey, congratulations, and have an honest conversation of things i would like that we could work together. >> that approach is now raising eyebrows by some. new york magazine calling those tactics, if you can't beat them, partially join em, and join them very selectively to beat em. democrat activists wish they would take a harder approach. remember, the republican leader

famously said his goal was to make barack obama a one-term president. the democrats are taking a different page out of mcconnell's book, learning from him the importance of the federal judiciary. they're topping the pace trump set for you additional appointments. they hope they can keep trump and his policies in line, potentially drawing on another strategy, what new york magazine says is hang tough and aim for a democratic comeback. we have former obama adviser and host of the fast politics podcast. how would you rate the democratic strategy so far in this kind of 180 pivot we've seen from some, not everybody, but some, that trump was a threat to our democracy and now saying they're willing to work with him? >> well, i'll preface this first by saying that i'm black, i was black before the election, i'm

going to be black long after it, and at the end of the day my community specifically feels betrayed, not only by the election itself, but also by the coalition that was believed to be one that would fight for civil rights, that would fight for justice and equity, one that would pay attention to the threats of the first trump administration and recognize that a second one would only be worse. so i think there's a lot of frustration there. but beyond that, it is also an ideology that there are way too many people -- i know it's not everybody, but there are way too many democrats who are willing to go along with the get-along at this point and it's frustrating to watch. because it appears the only people who are still fighting are those in the streets and those civil rights stalwarts, not as many electeds that we would expect to be in the fight. and that's frustrating because we know that trump 2.0 is going to really hurt people, specifically people of color, specifically low income groups, specifically the resonating

power of america and our stance abroad. those are things we should pay close attention to and far too many folks are not taking up that mantle and fighting anymore. they are, quite frankly, looking at a path that is one that is going to make friends or play nice in the sandbox with someone who wants to destroy america in its progress. >> so to that point, molly, is there a better way to respect democratic norms and the peaceful transition of power without capitulating to trump in advance? >> this is the big question. and we've seen a lot of electeds struggle with this, what does it mean to -- you know, we know -- i think a lot of important points, we know he's going to be terrible to people who have less resources. we know this plan is going to involve some pretty hair-raising stuff when it comes to deportation. i think those are all really

important points. i would say, you know, trump is not in office yet, so there is this, you know, sort of waiting period. but i agree with the other panelist, i think she's totally right. and i think that it definitely feels like a betrayal. look, you can't run on the idea that the man is a danger to democracy and then be like, well, we didn't win, so -- and that, i think, was ultimately the fallacy always, either you believe this to be true or you don't. it can't just be politically ex paid yent. >> can they play politics the way mcconnell does. he said he wanted obama to be a one-term president, he stonewalled two nominations, contradicting the process. do democrats have the backbone to play politics the way

republicans do? >> in short answer, i would say no. if past is principle, at the end of the day, what we've seen from democrats is an unwillingness to play the game that they are already in. they are playing a game that does not -- that involves rules that republicans no longer follow. and i think that for democrats, you have to be in the game with the rules that they have set, but also be willing to go above and beyond. republicans have ripped up the rule sheet. they are absolutely fine going by eradicating all norms, and democrats have to understand in this arena you have to be willing to play in that same fight. being the bigger person in the room has not helped them in every instance. at this point they have to do everything they can to not only resist, but i would also say to force the hand. because one of the good things about the last election cycle is that at least in the house, there is not an overwhelming -- republicans can't get anything through without democrats. it is what it is. and i think they are going to

have to use that power to showcase to the american people not only the dangerous things that republicans are trying to implement and how they will hurt the american public, but also to force their hand and make them make consolations that they have to. they have to ensure that their ideology does not get passed. i think that's one of the things that democrats are going to have to fight really hard for and show up and show out. they've got to be on the front lines. they cannot capitulate and assume in two years they're going to have another bite at the apple and there's going to be a wave of democratic leadership. they have to understand the landscape and they have to invest a lot more in down-ballot races and pay attention to state legislators. >> new york magazine has laid out five potential approaches to the upcoming administration, ranging from attempted cooperation to tacking to the center, to cutting a few deals and hoping for republican implosion. where do you come down here? what is the likely scenario for

democrats? >> look, this is all sort of a nightmare scenario, right? because democrats don't control the senate, they don't control the presidency, and they really don't control the house. republicans have this one-seat majority, they did have a very tough time and they had a bigger majority in the last congress. so, there is the fact that a lot of these republicans, like a lot of magas is about voting not to fund the government. if there's going to be a piece of good news, that would be it, is that a lot of this republican governance is about not governing. that does set trump up with a collision course and a lot of times to pass things, they had to do it -- mike johnson, who served at the pleasure of donald trump, only could pass things with democratic votes. so that is, in fact, one of the very few levers that democrats have realistically to push. but i agree that speaking out is

also super important. i think that some of what donald trump -- what's going to be problematic for donald trump is that he's run on this mass deportation that is morally really, really questionable. and i think you're going to see -- you know, every american, almost every american has a camera, right? and they're going to be -- you don't need the mainstream media to create viral moments. this is going to look really morally reprehensible, and the visuals of this mass deportation are going to be the kind of thing that the darkest moments in american life, right? like, they want to use the alien insurrection act -- i'm sorry, the alien enemies act is one of the darkest moments in american life. we saw this during world war ii, during world war i. so i do think that in order to do these things you're going to really come up against public

sentiment. i take no pleasure in bringing that up, because i think it's going to be so horrible. but i do think that you're going to really see whether americans are going to be able to stomach that. and i'm not convinced that they will be. >> we have about 30 seconds, but is it -- are we likely to see more resistance on a state level where democrats have, perhaps, control of state legislators, can we see them making an effort to resist trump in those arenas? >> absolutely. i think we already are. we've heard about the trump-proofing from governors like the governor of california, the governor of illinois. but i would argue that even in states that were considered a battleground an election cycle go, like georgia, we're going to see a lot of fights there as well. the battle for this is going to be advocates in the states. we know trump said he's going to toss things to the states. people of color will know what that looked like, we lived through and our grandparents

lived through jim crow. the battleground has always been in the states. >> thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciate it. coming up, a look back at the historic election year that was, 2024. and still ahead, bill nye will be here to talk all things climate. first, biden reportedly mulling preemptive pardons for those in trump's cross hairs. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break, so don't go anywhere. daddy, hi. speaker: goodness. my daughter is being treated for leukemia. [music playing] i hope that she lives a long, great, happy life and that she will never forget how mom and daddy love her. saint jude-- maybe this is what's keeping my baby girl alive. [music playing] narrator: you can join the battle to save lives by supporting st. jude children's research hospital.

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president biden is wrapping up his final days in the oval office with just weeks left to cement his legacy as the 46th president. one big move biden is reportedly

weighing, issuing preemptive pardons to those in trump's path of, quote, revenge. the move to be unprecedented in an attempt to trump-proof to make the fbi and doj pursue his enemies. names being discussed include dr. anthony fauci, general mark milley and leaders of the january 6th select committee, including adam schiff and liz cheney. trump on "meet the press" threatening the committee members with jail time. >> honestly, they should go to jail. >> so you think liz cheney should go to jail? >> for what they did -- i think anybody that vote in favor -- >> are you going to direct your fbi director and attorney general to send them to jail? >> not at all. i think they'll have to look at that. i'm going to focus on drill, baby, drill. >> some experts argue blanket pardons are not the solution, calling them unnecessary at this point. and they message it implies guilt as the "washington post"

editorial board puts it and some are split on the idea, some saying they would welcome the pardon, others saying they don't want one. this is a debate that continues as biden has over three weeks to make a decision. joining me, former watergate prosecutor and barbara mcquade, it's great to have both of you with us. jill, i'll start with you. your thoughts on this preemptive pardon and what it means. >> i can't help but think, ayman, of the gerald ford pardon of nixon. it was a preemptive pardon. we had not yet indicted him, despite the fact that there was plentiful evidence. we accepted that the pardon was valid, even though it was preemptive, and when it was offered to nixon, he was told that the case, a 1915 decision of the supreme court, meant that it would be an administration of guilt. and that made gerald ford feel

better with offering the pardon. i believe preemptive pardons are possible and even though in this case, unlike nixon, the people who will be offered pardons or who might be offered pardons have done nothing wrong. they are guilty of nothing. but that doesn't mean that pam bondi if she is confirmed as attorney general, won't try to indict them, causing them the costs of time and money to defend themselves. and so i think that maybe the preemptive pardon is a good and valid thing to do in this case. even though no one is guilty. >> but would you be concerned that if biden does it, trump will do it on his way out and weaponize a preemptive pardon for who knows what might happen over the course of the next four years? >> i'm concerned about two things. one, that he will do that no matter what. i don't think he needs to have any example from biden to do

what he plans to do, anyway. pardoning the january 6th defendants is an example of what he will do that is not justified. so, yes, i'm worried about that. i'm also worried that republicans will use it to argue that, see, they are guilty, that's why he's pardoning them. and so it needs to be done in a way that makes clear that there is no guilt, that this is to protect against unwarranted threats on television. you saw it, you just played it. he told your station, he said, i'm going to go after them, i'm not going to tell the attorney general to do it. he's already done that. that's what that statement was. it was a warning. and so, yes, i am worried. >> he definitely signalled that to any incoming official that's what he wants, even though he may not direct them. barbara, two members of the january 6th committee, betty thompson and adam schiff have opposing views. let's just take a listen.

>> if he offers it to me or other members of the committee, i think i would accept it. but it's his choice. >> i don't think pardons are necessary. those of us on the committee are very proud of what we did. we feel it was an important public service. >> barbara, your thoughts on this, would they be wise to accept a pardon if given one? >> well, i think it's going to be a personal choice. as jill said, there is case law that suggests that acceptance of a pardon is an admission of guilt, so i would be concerned that some would be tainted by the apparent admission of guilt even though they have done nothing wrong. members of congress have protection that others don't have, the speech or debate clause of the constitution makes them immune from criminal prosecution. so i don't think they have anything to worry about. i think one of the concerns i have about these blanket pardons is, the big names would get the blanket pardons, but how about all of the other people involved, their staffers and

aides and other people who worked on this clause, who also could get caught up in the cross hairs. it's very difficult to know where to end all of this. and so i think i disagree with jill here in terms of whether this is a wise use of presidential power, certainly president biden has the power to do it. but i do worry that this just creates a normalization of pardons and an ability to just sort of pardon everybody in an administration for anything they're about to do in terms of executing and the legal order. >> let me play for you what the former deputy assistant secretary for policy at the department of homeland security argued in saying that it is incumbent upon biden to protect people. listen. >> it's time to think about whether or not existing authorities need to be applied in new and different ways because trump is a new and different threat. it's at least incumbent upon biden morally and ethically to

protect those who are at risk because they were on his side. >> jill, is biden in any way morally obligated to do so? >> i'm not sure he's morally obligated to do this. as i said, i think it is a harmless act that is right, that it does not -- the case said it was an admission of guilt, so it is arguable that it is not an admission of guilt. and it also doesn't protect -- here is another reason why maybe it's not worth it, is congressional investigations in a congress completely controlled by republicans may go forward so that the expense and time and aggravation of that may equal the same as having a trial on false charges. i think a better solution is for the lawyers of america to offer

pro bono services to anyone at any level who is charged with fraudulent acts for which there is no criminal responsibility. and barbara is right, the people who were on the committee, who served in congress, do have the additional immunity. so they really have nothing to worry about for their acts. it's all the other people who don't have the speech and debate clause immunity. >> and one thing that is different this time around for trump 2.0, barbara, is that many think trump will be emboldened by the supreme court's infamous immunity ruling that protects trump if he were to weaponize his doj to prosecute innocent people. how concerned are you, and in what scenarios can you see this immunity decision emboldening, empowering and shielding donald trump from any actions? >> i think it is a very valid concern. the last time around donald trump had to worry about a couple of things.

one is robert mueller was investigating him for obstructing his investigation. that just can't be a thing anymore because the supreme court has said donald trump would be immune from those things. directing his department of justice to begin or end investigations is now protected because that is a core constitutional duty. so in this administration donald trump doesn't have to worry about that. he doesn't have to worry about re-election. so in many ways, many of the guardrails are removed. one thing i worry about, this setting a precedent that we're going to offer preemptive pardons, what about the people who carry out illegal orders? say donald trump provides some sort of illegal order. if those people think there's a pardon waiting at the end, they may be inclined to go along with executing illegal orders. >> all right, jill and barbara, thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciate it. coming up, recovery efforts to continue months after hurricanes helene, milton.

bill nye will be here live, and a former nydp detective on how gun violence has impacted 2024. first, a look back at the historic election year. lawmakers are trying to shut down planned parenthood. the health care of more than 2 million people is at stake. our right to basic reproductive health care is being stolen from us. planned parenthood believes everyone deserves health care. it's a human right. future generations are beginning to lose the rights we fought for. the rights for ourselves, our kids, and our grandkids.

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this has been an historic year, front and center an historic election. president joe biden dropping out of the race. vice president kamala harris made history as the first black and south asian women to be a nominee. her campaign raised a

record-breaking $1 billion, but harris could not overcome economic headwinds, trump winning the election despite being convicted of crimes. let's take a look back at this groundbreaking year. >> i'm running for re-election. >> i am tonight announcing my candidacy for president of the united states. >> we've got a verdict. >> we are looking at count 1, guilty. count 2, guilty. guilty on all 34 felony counts. >> the supreme court ruling former president donald trump is entitled to some immunity. >> we do not know what is happening. we see secret service agents with former president donald trump. >> shots have apparently been fired and donald trump has been injured. >> breaking news here, president biden has announced he will stand down from the race. >> a sharp turn for history. >> i know donald trump's type. >> decision 2024 starts right now. >> there's a lot of red on that map. >> he is now topped the magic

number of college votes. >> joining me, history professor at nyu and douglas brinkley, presidential historian. doug, you look back at this year, a pivotal turning moment in this country, an important one. what are the biggest takeaways from this year for you? >> well, first, one would have assumed that january 6th was a disqualifying event for donald trump. so his resurgence, resurrection into the main game of american politics was a bit surprising. second, starting in 2024, it looked like the legal system was going to get trump, as you just showed the famous 34 felony counts from new york. he became donald trump kind of an outlaw figure with a mug shot and we hate him in the way we see al capone, but not a

president, using my wanted status as a badge of honor. but lo and behold, president biden had no gas in his tank. he punted on doing the super bowl discussion with the country, losing prime time air, and then the disastrous debate, which will be remembered forever, where trump just had to stare at biden as he melted under the lights. from that moment on, things got weird, and i think the two defining moments were when trump was shot in butler, at that moment with blood coming down his face, he said, fight, fight, fight. that's when elon musk joined forces with him. and then kamala harris's chicago convention was a winner, she beat trump in her debate. but people didn't know her, she got in too late. in the end, we still don't have our first woman president and we have donald trump being the grover cleveland of the moment, elected two times, but in between him is biden. >> so, ruth, let me ask you the same question before i broaden

it out to the general public. your thoughts as you look back to this past year? >> well, you know, around the world there's this struggle between autocracy and democracy going on. it's never been stronger, this clash, and it has come home. and the two campaigns were definitely symbols of those political systems in a way. donald trump used his campaign as a mass radicalization event. think about how it ended up at madison square garden, a kind of hate fest. he also conditioned americans to want kind of strong men rule. that's not why all of them voted for him, but he praised autocratic leaders over and over. on the other hand, you know, this was a very close election and autocrats like trump like to convince you that it's all, you

know, preordained and they're invincible and this is how history is going to go. but this was a very close election. and kamala harris had to come in very late. and i would remind people that we're very unusual in the world, because we have very rigid system of two parties. we don't have the flexibility of other systems, where sometimes candidates make coalitions and go back and forth among parties. so, you know, this was a late change of game, a change of plans. and yet i think the campaign revealed an appetite, the people who were dancing in the stadiums, like doug said, this very strong convention. and it revealed an appetite for a different kind of democratic politics that will realize the promise of a multi-faith, multi-racial democracy, which was what the person of harris represented. so it's like a coming home of the clash between the value systems and symbols and politics of autocracy versus democracy

come home to the united states. >> you know, to talk about the public sentiment here, and this is the part that i'm more worried about, ruth, as an expert on the issue of authoritarianism creeping into our society, 65% of americans have tuned out political news after the election due to fatigue. and my immediate concern is that this could benefit a, quote, strong man like trump. are you concerned that with a disengaged public, people that are fatigued, people tuning out to the news, it becomes much easier, society becomes much more ripe for an authoritarian to usurp power? >> yes, i am concerned, because one of the reasons that authoritarians try and destroy the truth is to make the truth too exhausting to discover, sitting authoritarians. a lot of regime, they actually

want to achieve this, where people have tuned out. but this just shows that we have a challenge here, but we have an opportunity to kind of reinvent democracy and make it something appealing. i mean, all over the world, if you look at these continent-wide polls, the barometers, democracy with thethey've created. but we have an opportunity here to make democracy something exciting and something appealing. it's going to be difficult to do that, but the stakes are too high not to, and i believe that what will happen in the next months and year under the trump administration will show people how unappealing and disastrous the alternative to democracy is. >> doug, to go back to something that ruth mentioned earlier,

donald trump's margin of victory was the smallest of my winner in decades. reagan won in 1984 with an 18% margin. yet republicans are out here, he only won by 1.5%, and trump and maga republicans are out here pretending that they have an overwhelming mandate, almost landslide mandate type of rhetoric to govern this country. >> well, they don't have that kind of mandate. we just saw that with the showdown in congress. the pursestrings in congress are going to have to collaborate. the democrats still have power there. we still have our court system, very well may be donald trump's inauguration day he signs 100 executive orders of the type like he did last time of a muslim ban in the united states and they hit the courts and they say, no, not good. that doesn't mean a lot of trump's executive orders won't get done. we're touching on the fear of

losing our democracy, i think it got triggered greater with the three supreme court justices that donald trump got in. and then that presidential immunity idea that trump thinks, like the famous nixon line, i'm donald trump, i'm above the law. this is what really makes people very nervous and fearful about authoritarianism. as for the 60% that are paying attention or 40% of americans that don't vote, this was a year of war. i mean, gaza, israel, ukraine, russia, the republic of congo, what's going on there, what's going on in sedan. and we just kind of act like none of it is happening in a way. so hopefully the new administration, working with congress, will be able to get some world peace in 2025. >> such an important point, and certainly some stories that we're going to be watching very closely. doug, ruth, thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciate it, as

always. bill nye joins me to talk climate change, but first, gun violence in the u.s., the harrowing mass shootings that rocked our nation this year. stay with us. 60% of women experience leaks with bladder protection pads. try always discreet! it locks leaks in seconds to keep you drier and bunches 25% less often than poise. try always discreet! it's designed to protect. (sneeze) (hooves approaching) not again. your cold is coming! your cold is coming! thanks...revere.

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"washington post" numbers show there have been 30 mass shootings this year. that's a drop from last year, when there were 39. the "whington post" defines a mass killing as an event in which four or more people die, not including the perpetrators. if we use the data from the gun violence archive, a nonprofit that tracks gun violence and defines a mass shooting was an incident with a minimum of four victims shot, injured or killed, that number jumped to 488. and guns remain the leading cause of death for children and teens in the u.s. the "washington post" data shows 31,000 children across 21 states have been affected by school shootings in 2024, and the number of people killed in u.s. school shootings this year is 13, one every month. joining me is a former nydp detective and director of public relations for the black law enforcement alliance. mark, it's great to see you again. hate to end the year on such a

sour note. what do you make of this data trend we still see? >> it's consistent with common sense. it just seems as if there will be increases in the number of these type of incidents and expanded -- you know, when we have expanded factors and different locations where this occur, you don't know if it's related to a terrorism act now when you hear about it or some mental health crisis someone may be experiencing. one thing we do know is that there is increased access to firearms across the nation. we are a very violent -- unfortunately, a very violent nation, and with the open access to firearms and expanded access to firearms across the nation, i don't see these numbers improving. and we just, quite frankly, we don't have an effective prevention strategy because there are just shifting factors involved, and locations, whether it's schools or some public location, or just a place of

employment, we are becoming very good at kind of preparing for the response to the tragedy as opposed to preventing the tragedy, when you mix that in with the easy access to firearms and other weaponry. it's just a recipe for disaster. >> mark, according to crime data analyst jeff asher, murder likely fell at the fastest rate ever recorded this year. those numbers are likely to hold by the end of the year. just a few days away. why do you think we've seen a decline in murder rates? >> i think there's been some effective strategies as far as law enforcement is concerned. but keep in mind, these things are cyclical. you may experience one year of a significant drop in the murder rates and the next year there will be a spike. i think the most reliable statistics really play out over

five or ten years, if you really want to get a clear idea about what the true trend is, you really should look at a larger sample than just a single year. these things are cyclical. >> can you take us through some of the shifts that we've seen in 2024 that stand out to you? >> what really stands out to me is the increase in youth violence, the youth gun-related violence, firearms accessibility is a factor in that. but when you look at not only the school shootings, but the other shooting incidents that involve individuals under 18, there's a troubling trend. but i think, as is the case with the homicide, the murder numbers, it's best to look at these things over a larger period of time. but we're not going to get control of the situation until we get control of the access to firearms in this country. and then when you look at something that's really becoming

quite problematic and of concern as of late, you're talking about these 3d or ghost guns, you now add an extra layer of difficulty to have to address. that's going to be a challenge moving forward from a law enforcement perspective and actual violence that occurs in the communities, because now the violence, because these firearms are untraceable, now you have more difficulty in trying to solve some of these crimes that do occur. >> all right, mark, it's great to see you, as always. thank you so much. appreciate your insight and analysis. up next, the extreme weather we saw in 2024, bill nye joins me live. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! i won't let my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me... emerge as you,

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to soothe her with ease. puffs plus lotion is gentle on sensitive skin and locks in moisture to provide soothing relief. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. america's #1 lotion tissue. in 2024, we witnessed multiple once in a century climate events, multiple. a summer of deadly heat, phoenix going 61 days with temperatures above 110 degrees. las vegas reaching staggering 120 degrees, a new record for its hottest day ever. and in may, one of the strongest tornadoes ever recorded ripped through greenfield, iowa, a goliath with winds over 300 miles per hour. its power and violence ranking it as an extremely rare ef-4 tornado. climate change is fueling a new normal of extreme weather hitting at a constant pace. this year's back-to-back hurricanes helene and milton proved to be devastating and

deadly, a one-two punch that rocked the southeast. here is al roker. >> two deadly storms making landfall, only two weeks apart. hurricanes helene and milton, leaving a trail of historic destruction across florida and the southeast. >> helene not only bringing hurricane-force winds, but also a historic storm surge. >> on september 26th, hurricane helene makes landfall near perry, florida, inundating areas with record-breaking landfall, more than a foot in some locations, including the mountains of north carolina. catastrophic damage caused by the intense flooding leaves more than 200 people dead. helene, now the fourth deadliest storm in modern history. additional search and rescue teams race in. entire towns cut off from communication. no power and water for weeks. then, two weeks later, hurricane milton took aim at nearly the

same location, florida's hard-hit west coast. a climate change fueled storm that built and intensified from a category 1 to a category 5 in just 24 hours, making it the fastest case of extreme intensification ever in the atlantic, a record-breaking 54 tornadoes, including a rare ef-3 tornado. those devastated by helene and milton are still recovering from the catastrophic damage to their homes and infrastructure. the dollar amount of these storms is still being tallied, and is expected to be a staggering $50 billion each. but in the toughest of times, communities came together to help their neighbors. i got to see firsthand the power of human resilience. >> do you need baby wipes or anything? >> diapers. >> keep us in your prayers. we're resilient.

we will come back. it's just going to take a while. >> al roker, nbc news. >> joining me now is bill nye, the science guy. long-time science educator. great to see you again. thank you so much for joining us. do you think that people out there are connecting these weather events we're seeing to climate change? >> the answer is absolutely, without question, maybe. people did not vote with climate change in mind, at least to the extent that you might expect. so it will be another few years, i think, before people -- by people, i mean a majority of voters connect the events in a way that's significant. it's affecting everybody more and more, that's the point of mr. al roker's piece there. and the situation is only going to get more and more serious for all of us. >> i know that in november's election, as you just mentioned as well, you know, only 7% of

voters said climate change was the most important issue to them. and those voters went overwhelmingly for harris. what's your take on that and the political divide that exists in this country on climate change? >> well, the other side is of a mind that you can continue to drill for oil and gas and the verb is produce it and burn it without consequence. and the science community thinks that's not true. and so a lot of studies are done about how much energy costs produced by wind or solar, whether you should have modular nuclear power plants and so on. but these ideas are generally being set aside in favor of traditional fossil fuel burning. and as the world comes out of the -- came out of the pandemic, people started burning fossil fuels at a prodigious rate and it's going to take quite a while to reverse that trend.

but sooner or later, it's going to have to be reversed if we're all going to have a reasonable quality of life. >> you know, speaking of the quality of life that we're still seeking on this planet, arctic ice is melting at an alarming rate, the effects are starting to impact populated areas, tens of thousands of miles away. what is at stake here for our planet? >> well, everybody, let's just -- the planet is going to be here, no matter what we do. earth is not going anywhere. >> with us on the planet. >> right. you want to protect it for humankind. there's a couple of problems. first of all, if ice falls off the antarctic continent, it falls into the ocean just like dropping ice in a full glass and it overflows and the sea level is going to rise. about half of the people in the world live on sea coasts, so as sea level goes up even a little bit, those people are going to have to move.

with flooding, you can put in pumps. but eventually people will have to move, the way they're starting to move even here in the developed united states. people are moving inland from the miami beach to miami and so on. but that is secondary. in the nearer term is the arctic, the north pole, where the ice is floating. and as that ice melts and doesn't refreeze every year, it's the so-called positive feedback, where more ice melts, absorbs more sunlight, ice melts faster and faster. it's very reasonable that by the time the europa clipper mission makes it to jupiter in 2030, the arctic will have had an ice-free year, and this will mean warmer, wetter seasons in north america and eurasia, but it also will have geopolitical consequences,

because it will be possible to drive ships from siberia to north america, and this will mean you'll be able to drive not just cargo ships, but military ships. and so it won't just be submarines chasing each other. this is of significance for everybody. and the sooner we all get to work on it, the better. i remain optimistic, but concerned. >> yeah, and i'm so grateful you brought up that point that climate change does have a national security implication as well when we look at what that means for how we interact with each other on this planet. bill nye, greatly appreciate your insights, as always. thank you. >> have a good holiday, thank you. >> you, too, sir. a quick break, we'll be right back. and fits up to 95% of body shapes. try always discreet! designed to protect.

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remember, you can watch my show ayman weekends. keep it right here. jason johnson picks up the next hour of coverage. good evening from los angeles. i'm jason johnson. we're less than a month out from a second trump presidency, but what are we really in for? we know what donald trump wants his administration and his government to look like, a reality tv show. nearly a dozen of trump's nominees to cabinet and executive posts so far have been fox hosts or contributors, including pete hegseth, his problematic pick to be secretary of defense. is a list of