happy holidays and thanks for share ago little bit of the season with us. donald trump's second term as president has not yet begun. but in the 52 days since he was elected we have gotten a real preview of the chaos and the apparent corruption that the next four years is likely to

bring. president-elect trump has already begun filling his cabinet with a group of enablers and billionaires and billionaire enablers who have either been chosen because they will let trump do whatever he wants or chosen because they have paid for the privilege of doing whatever they want. we have seen one would be nomination go up in flames. trump's first pick for attorney general matt gaetz who had to step down because of swirling allegations of misconduct. he has denied all those allegations but a house ethics report released found that gaetz violated house rules, state and federal laws and other standards of conduct prohibiting prostitution, statutory rape, special favors, privileges, obstruction of congress. that person was donald trump's pick to be the top law

enforceable official. then there are trump's other embattled nominees. pete hegseth who has been dogged by allegations of alcohol abuse and sexual misconduct. there is tulsi gabbard accused of being a russian agent. there is robert f. kennedy jr. an anti-vaxxer chosen to run the department of health and human services and kash patel with an enemies list chosen to run the fbi. and there is trump's apparent co-president elon musk. the man who has already brought the country to the brink of a government shutdown. last week, musk threatened the shutter of the entire federal government. that mess ended when house democrats bailed out mike johnson and provided the votes to fund the government despite

the fact key priorities already agreed to by the speaker were ultimately tossed outed. but the rebellion that elon musk fomented among house republicans, that rebellion is not over. one week from today, house republicans will have to vote on who they want to be the next speaker in the next congress. house republicans have already proven themselves quite adept at devolving into a protracted speakership fight. it took them five days and 15 votes to finally elect a speaker. kevin mccarthy. two years ago, this time, the the stakes are even higher and the majority is even narrower. if republicans do not choose a speaker within three days of this new congress, they may not be able to certify the election results january 6th. you heard that correctly. we may be barreling toward

another january 6th election certification debacle only this time it's about whether republicans can get over the infighting in their own conference to certify a member of their own party as president of the united states. i mean, it's one way to kick off 2025. happy new year. joining us now, tim miller and washington post national columnist phillip baum. let me survey both of you. phillip, tim, who here believes that we'll have a speaker january 6th? >> republicans in congress are focused on one thing. that is keeping donald trump happy. nothing will frustrate donald trump more than if anything happens to delay his becoming president. i am entirely confident even if it is just some ad hoc you get to be speaker the next 48

hours, they are very adept at coming up with a temporary solution. and i am 100% confident that no one want to be the one that made it so that donald trump's january 6th didn't go exactly the way he hoped the last one did. >> 100% confidence from phillip. this program is live. but it will be available on tape. i just want to put it out there. >> i'll standby it. >> i applaud the confidence. tim, do you think republicans will prove themselves adept at making sure donald trump can certify his election results? >> i don't know if i would use the word adept. but i think that we will stumble into it. i'm with phillip maybe 97%. i will hedge. but look. the other option you have to consider is maybe kamala harris will have the courage. that's just a joke, to

intervene. but look. these guys, mike johnson is a dead man walking politically speaking. he will probably survive the january 3rd vote but he is managing a majority much smaller than the one kevin mccarthy couldn't manage. he has proven incapable of managing it without trump not even in the presidency yet. and, we have a debt ceiling fight coming in mid january. they only kicked the can three months government funding. there will be a huge fight over extending the tax cuts. they are all fighting over immigration. elon musk. the idea that mike johnson is capable of navigating this is preposterous. so mike johnson's time is coming. >> the idea that anybody is

able to navigate this seems, this is necessarily one of the great speaker of all time. but it is just such an impossible position to find yourself in when you have a hard right president with a hard right agenda and the only way things get passed in the house is if democrats bail republicans out. does the new reality that democrats aren't going to stave off crisis. but it is trump holding the bag so they may beless inclined to deal make and save republican butts when the rubber hits the road and i wonder who your expectations are for much getting done in the next congress even if donald trump, you know, is the puppet master of the house republican conference. >> yeah. the idea that a whole lot is going to pass many congress is, you're right. that is probably correct.

i think, too, the democrats will probably give them plenty of rope with which to hang themselves. they will be more than willing to let the republicans step on their toes a while before actually coming to bail them out. at the end of the day, the central dynamic here is that the courtesy of the republican party at this point in time is attention and anger right? and, the reason you have this caucus, they recognize they can derive more value from their audience by being obstructionists. the democratic marcy more overwhelmingly if not entirely dedicated to the idea the government should actually do stuff. they should do it not just to save mike johnson but because the government needs to be funded and the government needs to do things. the republican party fundamentally, there are more than a dozen people in the house republican caucus who don't believe that. they believe it is more important to be on news max and

all these channels. and they are just not committed. >> when donald trump who has said over and over again he intends to renew his tax cuts which benefit the ultra wealthy. when it comes time to pass that, that is not going to be done with democratic help and i wonder given the narrow majorities how much in pearl is the agenda in realty. >> look, i spent last week in phoenix with turning point usa conference. year end gathering. these folks don't agree on anything. to phillip's point. what animates them is blocking things. stopping foes, opposing the

democrats. is opposing the globalists so the idea they will all unify. maybe you can give up one or two to pass the trump tax cuts. maybe they will give trump one thing. at the beginning. because they want to, you know, not totally derail his presidency right out of the jump. republicans might be chaotic and self-sabotaging but maybe they are not quite that self- sabotaging so maybe they can all pull together for one vote that it is hard to see much passing after that. especially again, given the narrow majorities in the house and senate. >> can we talk about the senate for a minute? i wonder how much you think given the reality of how, you know, the complicated dynamics in the house which in some ways may provide cover in the senate if they want to buck trump. the controversy that is swirling around three of his

very important picks including pete hegseth. the fact trump is a lame duck. in theory, according to the constitution, he will not be president again. and i wonder if that gives some cover to republicans who don't want to walk the plank? >> yeah. one of the things we talked about ever since trump won the election is there's a lot of pressure on democrats. to pick their fights. but, on your show, i said republicans are in same boat. they need to decide how much of their credibility they are willing to lend to these trump nominees. and there are certain republicans who are from states that are not as hard right as a lot of the states are. or who may be eyeballing the reelection in the future. who may be willing to be retired after this. who will not be willing to have their legacy be putting rfk jr. in charge of the united states. there will be a lot of pressure on the senate which has

historically and recently despite all the majorities we have levied against congress. they have made it harder for the republican party to do what it would like to do for trump to do. what he would like to do. and that will continue. i think that these fights are going to impose a cost on republicans as well as democrats. and i'm not sure that all the republican senators will be willing to pay the costs. >> tim, do you, and i will not ask you to make 100% positive predictions. >> he won't, he's a chicken. >> i applaud phillip's confidence. but in terms of trump's, you know, the picks he is in now, that are the most controversial, do you think all four make it in? none of them make it in? do you have a thought on where they stand this hour? >> look, we suspect they will all make it just because if you do the math, republicans can't afford to lose three votes.

so murkowski and collins are the two. you haven't made a lot of money betting on susan collins to have courage in the past. mitch mcconnell looks ready to do thumbs down. the new senator from utah was adamant with him in private that he was not going to vote for him. and would never vote for him. so who knows. maybe this guy, john curtis will show some motivation. >> i think we lost tim miller but he will come back. we will take a quick break. there he is. so, tim, just, hold that thought. because we need you more. we need you for another segment. coming up, the president-elect has spent christmas fantasizing about taking control of greenland and panama and canada. yes, really. that's what he was doing while you were roasting chestnuts.

that's what he was doing. we will discuss the looming imperial imof a second trump administration. first a fight has broken out between maga and doge and it is not pretty. that's next. lawmakers are trying to shut down planned parenthood. the health care of more than 2 million people is at stake. our right to basic reproductive health care is being stolen from us. planned parenthood believes everyone deserves health care. it's a human right. future generations are beginning to lose

the rights we fought for. the rights for ourselves, our kids, and our grandkids. gone. just like that. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. last year, politicians in 47 states introduced bills that would block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. where does it end? planned parenthood fights for you every day. but we need your support now more than ever. visit this website, call, or scan the code on your screen, with your $19 monthly gift. help us win the fight for the constitutional right to control our own bodies. truly if planned parenthood had not stepped in, i would not be here today. they saved my life. your support is urgent. our rights and the rights of future generations are at risk. and lives are at risk. and that's why we have to keep fighting. in every state, everywhere.

donate $19 a month, or whatever you can afford. and you'll help us fight against laws that block care, and take away our rights. we fight to make sure everyone and anyone can get the care they need. but we need your help. and there's never been a more urgent time to join. so go online, call, or scan this code now. sign up with your monthly gift today, and we'll send you this “care. no matter what” t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. we won't give up, and we won't back down. we need you now more than ever. go online, call, or scan right now.

nothing says happy holidays like a conservative civil war on the internet.

the so-called doge faction of trump's coalition led by elon musk and vivek ramaswamy is now openly feuding with trump's anti-immigrant maga wing. the infighting broke out after trump named an indian american capitalist to be his adviser on artificial intelligence. that prompted far right backlash. laura loomer said it was in direct opposition to trump's agenda. musk and vivek ramaswamy strongly disagreed and fired back with separate online coasts that backed foreign born workers. back with we now, tim miller and phillip baum. and washington post national investigative reporter carol lenning. two washington post reporters all awesome people.

thank you for joining me. carol, let me start with you. this puts donald trump in a remarkably awkward position. not just because two of his friends are fighting openly on the internet with a deep divide between them. but trump might have to way in policy specifics. do you have any sense of where he might land? do you have any intuition about how he will side in this fight? >> i think the best answer to that question alex is past his prologue. when we watch trump as president in the first term, most important question he constantly asked his advisers whether it is chief of staff or miller or steve bannon would he ask over and over again. how about my base? how will this go with my base? so important to him. i feel like one thing that is really critical to donald trump

is making sure that base is happy. and right now, this little civil war is like a christmas present essentially a late christmas present to people who have been sort of waiting to see the first fractures in the donald trump firmament. how elon musk would stand for the policies that got trump his incredible popularity ratings in the first term. it is clear he will have to cool this down in some way and whether he steps in and makes a policy pronouncement, i think he will find a way to get some cold water on this as quickly as possible. because he doesn't want to have elon musk tell him to bring in more foreign workers because americans have a culture of

mediocrity as was applied in the postings by vivek ramaswamy and also, by elon musk in the last couple of days. >> yeah. i want to get to those posts in a minute. but the motion, i think carol is so spotlight. a billionaire immigrant tech bro not trump's base. if elon musk shadow president thing, something is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. it is hard for me to imagine that at some point and maybe some point soon, trump is going to have to betray his friendship with musk. >> yeah. there are some natural tensions here. and it is appropriate i'm coming at you from my parent's basement to understand all the characters. you have to be deep into the maga online world to understand the fractures an the fighting here. the short of it is this. trump added in this tech bro

world. you have musk. you have rogan. you have smarter more vc type tech folks. they sort of play pretend on the culture war. they are happy to go along with it when it came to covid. and when it comes to trans people. all those other things. but this technician thing is core. meanwhile, the ultra maga wing, nativism. and being anti-immigrant is core to them. this is a fight you can't really find common ground for. >> i agree with him. this is not just some holiday kerfuffle. this is a big one and i'm big

enough to remember the republican national convention when trump supporter all had mass deportation now signs. this is the thing that gets them fired up. how do you see from a political perspective the cleave between the wealthy tech bro coastal republican elite and the maga base, how do you see that translated into the halls of congress where they will have to find funding for a lot of this? >> this gets to the question of how much power is donald trump going to have now that he is a lame duck. it will only be exerted in republican primaries. how much clout does that bring to bear. how much do they worry about that? they worry about it quite a bit. but yeah, the divide that we are seeing here is really fascinating and entirely predictable as everyone has pointed out. the maga movement has a fundamental strain of this

identity politics of white grievance. they were willing to talk about dei is this terrible thing. some of that was sincere and a lot of it was dis ingenuous, there are a lot of trump supporters who don't believe any immigrants could come into the country and have jobs done by americans. elon musk has a lot of people he has hired who are working at tesla who are immigrants on work visas who he has a lot of respect for. there are also a lot of immigrants in the agricultural field. this is where he is falling to the diane cruger trap of not knowing what he is talking about. he doesn't get there is a similarity here. because you have that tension on immigration and identity bradly and musk who doesn't fully understand what he is talking about, then you get

this tension and it is not clear donald trump will be able to pull everyone together. if republicans will understand he is not the key to their future. >> you mentioned vivek ramaswamy's tweets which get at the fundamental sort of difference here between the maga base and the doge coalition. i don't even know how big the doge coalition is beyond elon musk and vivek ramaswamy. but anyway, vivek ramaswamy in a very long post on x said our men culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence and blamed shows like friends and family matters. he wants a america that prioritizes achievement over normalcy. nerdiness over conformity. hard work over laziness. i'm not sure that a tech bro, a wealthy tech bro telling americans they are mediocre and lazy is a perfectly fine tuned message for the trump base.

what is your opinion of this carol? >> i would just stick with some reporting and say you know, elon musk wind of waved into this drama to explain vivek ramaswamy's point. at least from the peck bro perspective. but he ultimately royaled the waters even more. this is not ideal. for the numbers. the true quantity if you will of voters who got trump elected. you are right to point out how big is the doge coalition. it is as big as its pocketbook. that is its value. right? that is what is important is the billions of dollars behind trump getting elected.

in terms of numbers and votes it is people saying what are you saying? what is elon musk's actual quote is along the lines of in america, we don't have enough extremely talented and extremely motivated people who can work in my tech industry. and that is pretty striking. i'm not saying he is wrong or right. but what a striking thing to say to the maga base which got trump elected and said we have to do something about americans. we have to stop these people coming across the border. feeding off our economy. taking away from our children's school time. we need somebody to look out for americans to say you are not motivated or excellent enough in your field, donald trump will have to come in and swoop in on this one. >> remember when tucker carlson

was talking about daddy coming home to spank someone? now we know who those people are. tim miller, phillip, carol. superstars. friends of the show. thank you for your full-time tonight. really appreciate you. coming up, is canada on track to become the 51st state? donald trump thinks so. that's coming up. but first, how did we get here? we will take a look back at the warning signs. from 2024. that's next. let's monopoly go! hehe. chris! keke! ready tycoons? it's go time! cash grab! keke, i won again? ow! daddy will be back soon. [cries] -ha ha! -boom! we're swimming in it now. -rent's due. -toodle-oo! busted! nothing beats playing with friends, except bankrupting friends. with dexcom g7, managing your diabetes just got easier.

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donald trump won the popular vote in the 2024 election by just 1.5%. but he won all seven swing states including the blue wall states of michigan and pennsylvania. both currently governed by democrats. in the closing weeks before the election, i traveled to both of those states and in both of them, the warning signs for democrats were there in plain sight. in saginaw michigan, the only county in the state to vote for every presidential winner since 2008. i spoke to dozens of union workers about the election. this is what they were saying. >> all right, so, by a show of hands, how many of you are paying close attention to this election? okay, i'm going to say that is like half the audience.

is anybody undecided? >> i'm undecided because i just haven't seen enough of it yet. i need to pay closer attention and do more independent research before i make my judgment. >> what have you caught of this campaign? have there been news stories about the candidates that made it é feed? >> not particularly. just how people act around this time. it's a little crazy. so i try not to partake so much. >> i'm supporting kamala harris because i have seen four years. i have seen nine years of donald trump. we have to move our country forward. i think kamala harris, a generation younger than myself needs to start moving this country forward. donald trump is pulling us backwards, not forward. that's why i support kamala harris. young people, there's a lot of young people in this room. i see the policies that kamala

harris, that the infrastructure act. that put most of these people here back to work for pretty much their entire career. they can support their family and own a home and build generational wealth. >> the only president to be on a picket line, owe 9)ndbiden, a support working families. infrastructure bill, time after time, we have seen him stand up for us. >> do you feel like vice president harris will be as strong as he was? >> i do. >> who here is voting for the first time? is this anybody's first election? you guys back here. what made its way across your radar? any stories or issues or positions? >> mostly just immigration. >> can you talk a little more about that? what about immigration have you

been paying attention to? >> there are thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants coming across the border every day. and the vice president has done minimal work to fix that. based on what i have seen so i would like to to change. >> do you'll feel like donald trump will be better on that issue? >> i do believe he will be better on that. yeah. >> are you leaning toward trump right now? >> yes, ma'am. >> is there anything that vice president harris could do at this point to change your mind? >> um, not particularly. no. unless she changes her stance completely on fixing the border. no. >> this is your first election? >> yeah it is. >> have you been paying attention to stuff? >> some things but as of right now, it's hard to know what is true and what's false. as far as both parties are concerned. >> what issue matters to you the most? >> definitely the issues concerning democracy and what was discussed before the

border. >> what about emigration concerns you? >> the influx of illegal immigration is affecting a lot more than just the people. but our economy. we are losing jobs for the people who live here. people are running out of work and in return it is making life as a whole for the country harder. >> do you feel like one candidate or the other is better on that issue? >> i don't know what to believe from what i'm seeing from multiple news outlets and what comes across my news feed. i'm not super opinionated either way. >> how do you think you will ultimately decide? we talked to one gentleman who said i will go with my heart. >> as the election comes closer i think the more i see and the more truth that ends upcoming out i will be able to make a more educated. >> how many people care about whether their union endorses a candidate? is that going to matter to you? >> it matters to me what my union endorses because the

union provides me with work. and directly affects my pocketbook and my family. >> if the union doesn't endorse a candidate and you are left to decide on your own, do you think you are definitely going to vote? >> i'm definitefully going to vote. >> how do you think you will make that decision? >> i'm still going to be conflicted in the voting line. >> really? so literally a game time call? >> i think so. >> is it going to matter what your fellow union members are doing? >> it will matter. >> do you guys talk about it? >> it is definitely a hot topic. >> is there disagreement? >> oh yeah. oh yeah. >> right now it's pretty black and white. you go back to where republicans wanted to make our economy service rather than manufacturing. do your research on that. do it.

and vote for christ sakes. people around the world don't have an opportunity. look around the economy. we got the chips act going on here. there's billions and billions of dollars. most of these people in this room are benefiting from biden's chip acts deal and they don't even know it yet. do your research. look at that. jesus christ, pull your head out of your ass. >> saginaw went for trump again this year. he saw an increase eating into kamala harris' margins. while democratic campaigns focused on trump's criminal indictments, his position on democracy as well as his stance on abortion, the union workers i spoke to in those closing weeks before election day made it clear that those were not the issues that would move them at the polls. >> does anybody have any idea about what's happening in the federal courts relating to donald trump's january 6th

event? i'm sorry to keep coming back to you. but talk to me about your level of interest in the criminal charges and so forth. >> february 6th? >> january 6th. >> so i remember that day. i know he was the standing president. i'm not familiar with the charges being brought against him for that. i'm not following that. there are multiple court cases going on. >> that sounds like it will not be a factor in deciding who to vote for. >> when i say january 6th, what do you think? >> i remember seeing all the riots and stuff. don't know what happened. >> how did it make you feel when you saw it? >> i don't know. i don't really feel any way about it. i mean, people show their emotion, i guess. probably in the wrong way. but it happened. >> who here has been following the decisions from the supreme

court? raise your hands? i'm seeing only a handful. who knows what the dobbs decision is? one person. okay. that's super interesting. >> what about abortion? is that an issue that you think. >> i think it's the woman's right. nobody should be able to dictate that at all. >> and what do you think of trump's position on abortion? >> he is antiisn't he? >> yeah. >> he wants to control that? >> yeah. well,. >> i don't think he has any business even talking about it. >> what about abortion? reproductive choice? >> each side is a little too crazy. they meet in the middle. >> they go one, two, watch one way, too much the other way. >> do you think democrats are too open ended on abortion and republicans are too restrictive? >> yep. >> what about you?

>> same as her. >> something you think about? >> i don't know. >> i don't have an opinion on it. i haven't thought about it. >> a few weeks later i traveled all over the state talking to voters. one of my stops was in allen town where a puerto rican radio personality victor martinez hosted one of the most popular shows in a place where the hispanic population has tripled. while he spoke to his listeners one issue kept coming up. latino men were having doubts about voting for a woman. >> kamala harris being a female concerns me a little bit. she will still get my vote but it concerns me a little bit because over the generations, i had never seen a woman other than hillary clinton when she ran to become the president.

but i am concerned a little bit about the fact will she be able to run this country the way a male did. would she be able to stand on her own two feet and deal with these situations being that we have putin and so many other presidents outside. this country and other country that has such a great relationship with donald trump? >> i just feel that because she is a woman, i think she will be treated differently. her word is not going to be out as much as a man for some reason. which i don't think is right. >> do you have friends that are not going to vote for her because she is a woman? >> i have a lot of coworkers. neighbors around here. just because she is a woman. a woman is a woman and a man is a man.

it is just. it doesn't matter what are you as long as you know what you're doing. it doesn't matter what are you. >> this listener is writing on facebook the reason we get those calls of people scared is because they hear from the media and trump how weak as a country we are. we are weak. we are weak. and so, that together with a female, the perception that females are weaker than men so that. >> that is fascinating. that's a super fascinating point. >> well, kamala harris won the latino vote 46% of latinos voted for donald trump this year. a 13-point increase in his support compared to four years ago. trump's 46% support marked the highest support any republican has gotten with this specific voting block ever. when we come back, donald trump has talked a big game when it comes to america's role in conflicts around the world.

but can he actually deliver? we'll get a reality check next.

lawmakers are trying to shut down planned parenthood. the health care of more than 2 million people is at stake. our right to basic reproductive health care is being stolen from us. planned parenthood believes everyone deserves health care. it's a human right. future generations are beginning to lose the rights we fought for. the rights for ourselves, our kids, and our grandkids. gone. just like that. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. last year, politicians in 47 states introduced bills that would block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. where does it end? planned parenthood fights for you every day. but we need your support now more than ever. visit this website, call, or scan the code on your screen, with your $19 monthly gift. help us win the fight for the constitutional right

to control our own bodies. truly if planned parenthood had not stepped in, i would not be here today. they saved my life. your support is urgent. our rights and the rights of future generations are at risk. and lives are at risk. and that's why we have to keep fighting. in every state, everywhere. donate $19 a month, or whatever you can afford. and you'll help us fight against laws that block care, and take away our rights. we fight to make sure everyone and anyone can get the care they need. but we need your help. and there's never been a more urgent time to join. so go online, call, or scan this code now. sign up with your monthly gift today, and we'll send you this “care. no matter what” t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. we won't give up, and we won't back down. we need you now more than ever. go online, call,

or scan right now. dad i got a huge barbeque wing stain. this bottle says i need to pretreat. that stuff has way more water. a little bit of tide goes a long way, so you can save your shirt and maybe even a little money. moat the... library.s right... for a better clean with less... it's got to be tide. new intelligence linking russia to a deadly azerbaijan airlines crash. 38 people were killed when a commercial plane traveling to russia crashed on the shores of the caspian sea. two u.s. military officials say the russian military may have misidentified the commercial plane as ukrainian drone.

the mistake that would have triggered air defense systems and shot the plane down. russian officials have denied those claims and suggested that ukraine is to blame. this all comes as the kremlin has rejected president-elect trump's calls for an immediate cease fire to end the war in ukraine and fears of a wider war have begun to resurface in the middle east as israel steps up the attack on the houthis in yemen. all this awaits donald trump in the white house next month. but he appears to want more chaos in the form of territorial expansion. he escalated his threats to take control of the panama canal and he doubled down on his desire to take ownership of greenland as in greenland. joining me now, david, foreign policy expert who worked in the clinton administration and hosts the deep state radio podcast. thank you for joining me in the middle of this holiday season. first of all, donald trump made

a lot of seemingly unhinged promises. we'll see what comes of them. but the idea that he can end the war in ukraine in his first 24 hours in office. first of all, what do you make of that and what do you make of it in light of this potential air attack on the azerbaijan commercial aircraft? >> i think trump is already getting a cold dose of reality. there is never a possibility that he was going to end it in 24 hours. what he was doing was playing right into putin's hands because putin know it is longer he drags this out, the worse the position is that trump is in. and that the only leverage trump has, he has no leverage over putin. is over ukrainians so trump could pull support for the ukrainians but europe can support the ukrainians and the ukrainians can pursue this on their own. and i think we will end up with

a long complicated negotiation in which putin plays a tough line and says he wants not only all the territory, but he doesn't want ukraine and nato. he doesn't want ukraine in europe or part of the eu. so i think this will go on for months and months and be another upward trend of those promises like getting mexico to build the wall that never materializes. >> what do you think about the appointment of tulsi gabbard who has inclinations toward putin. how do you think that might affect the u.s. russia relationship under trump? >> it would be a disaster if she were confirmed for the job. the intelligence community is extremely disturbed by the prospect of somebody who is so close to putin and assad. but just take the story that you mentioned and they are putting out fabricated

conspiracy theory story. they have embraced and promoted such stories. the idea you have a kremlin mouthpiece is bad for the u.s. and it is bad for trump. they are promoting lies and not the truth. >> there are so many things that trump says and does that are confounding right? but to use the week of christmas and the christmas holiday to launch sort of his plans for territorial expansion. going after green land. does one of these rise in your mind to the wackiest idea? secondly, what do you think is behind the new imperialism this

week in particular? this is south park level foreign policy. they controlled green land for 700 years. they said we are going promote panamanian inpen den and our claims to the canal over the course of the century that we were there were very weak. this will not materialize into anything. except alienating our allies. and making the president of the united states look like a buffoon. >> yeah. i mean, it must have been some christmas ham i guess if that is what it led into. i mean, part of me want to try

it myself. what would happen? david, thank you for taking time. i appreciate the wisdom and thoughts. >> my pleasure. >> we'll be right back.

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welcome back to our special two-hour edition of alex wagner tonight. as we head into a new year and trump's second term in office, one of the things we have to think about completely differently this time around is america's legal system. donald trump begin 2024 as a defendant in four separate criminal cases, in which he placed up to 91 felony counts, and with them, the potential he would end this year, 2024, in prison. instead, he is ending the year as the president-elect of the united states, having avoided almost all accountability, while he has also fundamentally changed our nation's legal

landscape. this year, trump became the first former president in u.s. history to be convicted of a crime. he was found guilty of 34 felony counts in the state of new york. the sentencing in that case has been delayed indefinitely. down in georgia, trump started the year facing criminal conspiracy charges from fulton county district attorney fani willis, who brought her case against trump for his attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election in that state. earlier this month, the a willis was removed from the case. while she is appealing the decision, the likelihood of her prosecution against trump continuing seems a very slim. at the federal level, trump started this year with special counsel jack smith prosecuting him for election interference in 2020, and for the mishandling of classified documents after trump left the white house. now, not only has special counsel jack smith dropped both of those cases, the supreme court has given trump considerably more power than he had before. in a hearing about

the federal election interference case before the high court earlier this year, the justices will the president has community from criminal prosecution for all official acts. that means trump really could shoot someone on fifth avenue and maybe get away with it as long as he could reasonably claim it was an official act. trump still faces a number of civil cases, and financial penalties, but at least criminally, donald trump appears to have emerged from this year stronger than ever. as we head into 2025, as trump is openly threatening retribution against his perceived enemies, how should we be thinking about the nation's legal system, where do things stand now? joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, kristi greenberg, former federal prosecutor who served in the attorney's office of the southern district of new york and melissa murray, professor of law at nyu and cohost of the

strict scrutiny podcast. i cannot believe my fortune in heaven all three of you to talk about this. joyce, let me start with you. in terms of how we should be speak thinking about the federal courts and what the supreme court did in its decision in and around the election interference case. should we believe future prosecutions of president's or former president is all but impossible at the federal level at this point? >> i think we have to set the table 1st, alex, and say that donald trump did to the courts what he has done consistently. he is an institution destroyer, not an institution builder. a big part of the problem we face in assessing the courts and how they may interact in the trump 2.0 presidency is the fact that he managed to undercut public confidence in the courts. as i think about that, i think increasingly that our confidence in the courts, although in many ways it is shaken, we should not abandon it. what we should do is reject this notion that donald trump

is immune from all accountability. the supreme court has made it clear he won't face any criminal charges for any conduct he engages in that is at least arguably official. as you point out, there are a range of civil cases still in effect, e. jean carroll holds an $83.3 million defamation judgment against him, and although trump really banks on this notion that he is above the law, it is up to us to hold the line here and remind ourselves that he is not. >> melissa, how are you thinking? i very much appreciate joyce's reminder that we shouldn't give up on the judiciary. how are you thinking about the length of line trump has to play with legally speaking, given the court's recent ruling or recent opinion, and the sort of lawlessness or the attitude of lawlessness that trump brings with him into office in the second term? >> i want to write out

something joyce said, you can't lose space to allusive faith in the courts. the court stuck in certain ways and that is the work of donald trump, who has been active during his first presidency in stacking the federal courts with conservatives. donald trump himself believes in courts. he is a defendant certainly in a number of criminal cases. he is a defendant in civil cases. he's also a plaintiff in a number of cases. he planned to bring suit against those who he says have defamed him by criticizing him. we should take some solace that at least one person here, that is donald trump, believes the system can work, at least in someone's favor. he's trying to make the system work for everyone. in terms of presidential immunity, it is no secret the supreme court stacked the deck

in donald trump's favor and in favor of any president coming after him. the line really is what is the difference between official and unofficial conduct? the supreme court in other cases has said it is sometimes difficult to tell what is official, what is unofficial when it comes to the presidency because the man and the office frequently intersect and merge in some way. that means it is going to be harder to hold donald trump criminally accountable. we have seen the criminal cases go away. on the civil side, the court has said in lots of things that you can continue to have civil litigation against a sitting president, so long as the litigation doesn't impose unduly on the activities of the presidential office. we saw bill clinton, it is likely in some of the civil cases donald trump will be an active plaintiff, he could continue to be an active defendant. i don't think we should loosen things entirely with the courts and with the legal system. again, we ought to be clear i and very straightforward about the challenges we face here. again, this can be in heaven moving forward. >> to that end about how the courts may the hold trump accountable and what can be

done, it is not just donald trump who will be an actor here, as it was in any of these federal cases he was facing. there were other people associated with him who has indeed faced accountability. i will note this is not a federal case but rudy giuliani is due in court next friday to see if he should be held in contempt for failing to turn over assets related to his defamation of ruby freeman and shay moss. he owes them $142 million. he has not turned over his assets. rudy giuliani can't practice law in new york. what is going to happen there, kristi? what message does that send to other potential trump allies and stooges he may want to carry out more of his unlawful plans? >> as you said, i think there's a real feel for the enablers because the supreme court did absolutely nothing to protect them. during oral arguments, you had justices talking about, well, the fact, we can give immunity to the president because there

are these other people who would be helping him and they don't get, they don't have any consequences. that would be determined president's from acting. and that argument holds any water but that is one that they seem to be drawn some kind of a bright line, at least in their arguments, about the fact that these enablers could be held accountable. i think you are going to see that i don't think we are going to see it in georgia but there are other options, in arizona, michigan, wisconsin, with respect to the fake electors. you have rudy giuliani, who defamed election workers in georgia and is being held accountable for that. despite the fact that in many of these courts, he has continued to act with complete contempt of the judges, i do think judges seem to be getting tired of it and i do have hope in 2025 they will hold his feet to the fire if he doesn't continue to, if he doesn't actually abide by their rulings and turn over his assets to

those election workers and abide by the court orders. i think rudy giuliani is in for a lot of trouble. he has been disbarred from the practice of law in two states. i don't see him ever stepping foot into a courtroom anytime soon other than as a defendant. >> to that end, about how the enablers are being held accountable, joyce, we know that fani willis has been taken off of the case she was prosecuting against trump down in georgia but it is not just trump, it is trump and 14 allies and she is appealing that woman that has taken her off the case. what do you think is going to happen there, joyce? it is a vast criminal conspiracy case and it involves a number of people. how do you see the road ahead for fani willis in the state of georgia? >> this is a case that is proceeding in georgia state courts, not federal court. the dynamics are a little bit different. it is very likely the georgia supreme court will affirm the

ruling removing willis from the case. if that happens, this case will then be reassigned to another georgia prosecutor. there's a little bit of a precedent for this. early on in the case, one of the defendants was peeled off because willis had a conflict of interest was prosecuting him. when that case was reassigned to another prosecutor, it was essentially a deathknell for that case. that could will be the state of this entire matter. there is a little bit of hope in this landscape which is that some of the defendant who had previously had guilty tried to reverse their guilty plea after this entire scenario shook out and the trial judge told them, absolutely not. a guilty plea is final, that is an important principle in the criminal justice system. absent a very good reason, defendants aren't permitted to relitigate a guilty plea after they have entered it. h those guilty pleas have held

up. as christie points out, there are other criminal cases where trump is not a defendant in states across the country, where fake electors schemes were executed. something we often lose sight of is when cases like that go to trial, or even when they proceed to a guilty plea, much of the evidence comes forward and it is a very public grinder, whether trump is involved or not, of his complicity in those matters. >> doing home, when we talk about trump specifically, melissa, how much stock do you put in civil cases against donald trump? he still faces the civil lawsuits for the january 6th attack, he faces defamation charges from one of the central park five, the exonerated five after he claimed during presidential debates that they had killed someone. do you think those can proceed? so trump is president, do they proceed in an orderly fashion, what is your level of optimism

that some account ability, he will face some accountable to the on a civil level? >> we know that president's can be held liable in civil lawsuits, even while they are serving in the presidency. we know that from clinton versus jones, the supreme court case from 1996. we have also seen that president's have participated in civil lawsuits. bill clinton, for example, donald trump, at least during part of his time as president was involved in a suit involving trump university. it is entirely possible for the president to participate as a litigant in a civil suit without undue burden. does that mean donald trump as a litigant would try and come up the works? that is what litigation is. that is the strategy, run out of the clock. we see there have been very assertive officials, letitia james, the civil fraud case, that have kept those things recent. the presidency will make it more challenging for things to

move in an orderly fashion but it will not be an absolute impediment. there may actually be an avenue for some kind of accountability from the civil lawsuits, it just may take longer than we have seen in circumstances where donald trump was not president while also a litigant. >> it's not over. in short, it ain't over by a long shot. joyce vance, kristi greenberg, thank you for spending a little bit of your holiday season with us. melissa marie, i will ask you to stick around for a few more minutes. we have more to get to the tower, including the supreme court's ongoing ethics problem. as we get that more reporting about more undisclosed travel for justice clarence thomas, paid for by a billionaire. that is next. my moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. now i have skyrizi. ♪ i've got places to go and i'm feeling free. ♪

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democrats on the senate judiciary committee drop in the resting chest not just ahead of the holidays. we have reported on two more undisclosed trips are gifted to justice clarence thomas by texas billionaire harlan crow. after a 20 month investigation into ethics practices and the supreme court, democrats released a 93 page report with 800 pages of supporting documents.

in addition to the trip that have been already made public, two new trips were revealed. conservatives make a donor harlan crow flu justice thomas from nebraska to new york in july of 2021. months later, crow hosted thomas on his yacht after supplying the justice with a private flight between d.c. and new jersey. justice thomas did not disclose these trips, even after resubmitting some of his financial forms. the senate judiciary committee only learned about them after threatening to subpoena harlan crow. back with me is nyu law professor and host of the strict scrutiny podcast, melissa murray and we are joined by mark joseph stern, slate writer. it is great to have you, mark and melissa. we are talking about justice

thomas and harlan crow. the fact that justice thomas did not feel the need to disclose these trips after he had to submit financial disclosure forms, what does that tell you about the code of ethics at the supreme court and is anything ever going to change here? >> it tells me the alleged code of ethics doesn't really exist for all intents and purposes. it is a series of suggestions that cannot even be rounded up to a true code. justice thomas will continue to flaunt it with impunity unless and until it is given realties. there is a reason why justice elena kagan did a little bit of a lecture tour, where she said repeatedly, we should have an enforceable ethics code. it is her own colleague on the bench showing the problem of putting out suggestions and sending good luck, hope you follow it. what bothers me the most about this situation in particular is that justice thomas as a jurist really shows no mercy for litigants who break the law, for criminal defendants especially, who holds them to the very tightest interpretation of the letter of the law. and yet when he himself breaks the law, as he did here by

failing to disclose all of these lavish gifts and presents and trips, he declares himself through his intermediaries to be totally innocent, to be blameless. he is given a do over and the senate judiciary committee reveals, still breaks the law, still withholds information about trips that under federal statute he was required to disclose. i guess, to him, it is no big deal. we hear a lot about a two track justice system, there's one going on in clarence thomas his own mind, we are one class of people, indigent criminal defendant, they get no mercy but he and rich, powerful people again, maybe like donald trump, they get an endless series of two overs and mulligans because, of course they must have acted with good content. >> it says something as we look toward the broader landscape of the incoming trump administration about the power of billionaires. this is what the outgoing chair of the judiciary committee had

to say, he says "what are failing to disclose biscuits were failing to recuse in cases of apparent conflicts of interest, it is clear the justices are losing the trust of the american people at the hands of fawning billionaires." you have elon musk in the executive branch, you have harlan crow in the judicial branch, and told billionaires working their way in the legislative branch. just give me your opinion on this sort of to call it kleptocracy but melissa, this is deeply problematic on a number of levels when you look at the amount of money and outside influence it can buy. >> when do we call it a kleptocracy? certainly an oligarchy for sure, alex. this is basically the new gilded age that we are living in. and, we have seen the effects of it. the supreme court overturned the chevron doctrine last year and there has been reporting through "the new york times" that made clear that was a

multiyear project funded by the conservative legal movement and the koch brothers network, which has a true interest in corporate deregulation and hobbling the administrative state because administrative agencies issue regulations that often make it more costly for corporations to run because those vacations make it safer for consumers but more expensive for corporations to make their product. it is not a surprise the administrative state is under assault, it is a real problem for these on the darks and corporations and it is no surprise that the american people are losing faith in the courts when they see these very cozy relationships between the supreme court justices and these oligarchs, who sometimes function, apparently, as emotional support alien errors. i think the really important point for the public to recognize is that putting pressure, examining this, begin public about it does work. last month at the supreme court, justice neil gorsuch recused himself because accountable .us had published a

report showing he has very close ties with someone who filed a brief before the court. that doesn't happen unless there is transparency and reporting and journalism and journalists willing to hold this court speak to the fire. when people say that you are making it hard for the justices or you are making things difficult for the judiciary, we are not making it difficult for the judiciary, we are making it easier for transparency and justice. >> mark, first of all, you know, melissa, second of all, mark, when you think about the judiciary and the road ahead, trump will be able to appoint new justices. how many more, i think joe biden at last count had beaten the number of appointees that donald trump, the number of judicial appointments donald trump meet in his first term by one. what is your expectation for the trump administration, how aggressively they are going to try to fill seats in the federal judiciary and the class of judges we are talking about,

in terms of filling those seats, given how the trump administration and conservatives have manipulated the federal courts to get federal conservative legislation either connected or have managed to unwind liberal protections at the state level. >> i think we are about to see the most extreme and partisan slate of judicial nominees in history. the reason why is because trump experimented with appointing these hacks to the bench in his first term, people like eileen cannon. they have donned their robes and they engaged in the exact egregious misconduct and outrageous decision-making that progressives want about and the public still saw fit to give donald trump a second term. i fear that, as usual, the public is not drawing them correct lines of fecundity between these outrageous decisions from the lower courts and the president who appointed the judges making those decisions. i think if you are trump and

the appointees and advisors who are going to select these judges, you are thinking i got away with it. i put the worst people on the bench. i put 33-year-old psychopaths on the bench and the people of this country gave me a second term. the question will be how low can you go? with 53 republicans in the senate, the bar is on the floor. fearfully, i have to say this will be worse than the first term. the people who will populate the benches in the lower courts are going to be judges in name only. they will emerge with an agenda. they will quickly execute it. then, after trump is gone, after this nightmare is over, they will remain for years, for decades, continuing to stand in the way of every democratic president and every democratic congress that exists for the next 40, 50 years, unless future democrats decide to do something about it and reform

the courts. it is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. democrats who said that expanding the supreme court or imposing a real code of ethics or other reforms over the last four years, they are going to see just how bad the situation can get because they decided to unilaterally disarm, to reject the hardball that mitch mcconnell and trump perfected and we are going to suffer the consequences. >> well. okay. mark joseph stern with a heavy dose of we'll talk this holiday season. melissa murray. thank you both for joining me. i know it is a crazy time of year and i appreciate the wisdom and the thoughts. thank you, my friends. coming up, the democratic party might be trying to figure out where it went wrong in 2024 . is the 2028 primary already underway? a special report on what happened to the most vulnerable among us when washington decides to shift policy. that is coming up, right after the break. ealized i can get cleaner floors without the extra work.

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donald trump's reentry to the white house is raising serious questions about both immigration and reproductive rights policy. less discussed is the fact that these two complex issues often overlap. a report for this year by the journal of the american medical association reveals that in a post-roe v wade america, the number of women managing their

own medication abortions outside of the health care system has risen significantly. community-based volunteer networks lead the way in providing these women their needed medications. some of these networks, based in mexico, ship abortion medication for free to women in the u.s. trying to bypass their states harsh abortion bans. along the way, they are encountering a secondary reality, a troubling rise in sexual violence against migrant women on the mexican side of the southern u.s. border, leading to even more unwanted pregnancies in post-roe v wade america. palat ramos investigated this trend earlier this year. this is her special report. >> we are about to talk to an asylum seeker who was sexually assaulted on the mexican border and found out she was pregnant as soon as she stepped into texas. the only reason she agreed to talk to us today was because we will not be disclosing her identity or where we are right now. when she left el salvador for

the united states, many of her friends cautioned her against it. they knew about the harrowing experiences of women heading with. at one point after entering texas did you find out you were pregnant? >> [ speaking non-english ] >> valentina found herself in texas, pregnant, alone, planning and abortion. were you aware of the strict abortion laws that are enforced in texas? >> what did you learn?

were you looking for clinical help? what did you want? >> [ speaking in global language ] >> the pill valentina is referring to is a combination of the fda approved regimen for medical termination of pregnancy. more than 60% of all abortions performed in the united states are done using these pills. since the supreme court overturned roe v wade in 2022, 14 republican-led states, including texas, have been and the medication. >> [ speaking in global language ] >> from edina found a group that was able to ship the pills to a friends house in a nearby state. at 14 weeks pregnant, she found

herself packing once more, this time to carry out a self managed abortion. weeks after she returned to texas, valentina managed to obtain more packs of misoprostol, one of the abortion pills she used. inspired by her own struggle, she decided to break the law to help women in similar situations. were you aware that what you were doing was illegal? >> [ speaking in global language ] >> do you have any left right now? >> [ speaking in global language ]. >> are you still thinking about helping other women? >> [ speaking in global language ]

>> reporter: valentina says she is no longer providing abortion pills. on the other side of the border, activists are working day and night to fill the void. >> [ speaking in global language ] >> reporter: this is evelyn, a young doctor from mexico city, who is part of an international network, helping women obtain both mifepristone and misoprostol. since the overturn of roe v wade in 2022, much of that help is being routed to texas. she asked for her identity to be concealed in order to protect the operation. how big is this network, how many people are part of it? >> [ speaking in global language ] >> who are they, much the, where are they contacting you from? >> [ speaking in global language ]

>> how many packs of pills are you sending each week? >> [ speaking in global language ] >> how do you hide these pills, how do you make sure no one knows what you are mailing? >> [ speaking in global language ] >> many people would ask, what is in it for you? you are not doing it for economic reasons, why do you do it? >> [ speaking in global language ]

>> reporter: back in texas, valentina feels the same way. you risk your life and your status, why? >> [ speaking in global language ] >> coming up, highlights from my conversations with the stars of the democratic party this year and what is next for the party in 2025 and beyond. stay with us.

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in one stroke, for the ultimate gillette shaving experience. the best a man can get is gillettelabs. s 2024 comes to a close and the republican trifecta is set to take over washington, d.c., congressional democrats have begun to plan for the future. over the past few weeks, we have seen house democrats elect new ranking leaders, including congressman jamie raskin and gerry connolly, who will hold top spots on the powerful judiciary and oversight committees respectfully. talk has already begun among washington insiders about potential 2028 democratic hopefuls. this year, i spoke with two stars from the party who have long been considered potential presidential contenders. california governor gavin newsom and michigan governor gretchen whitmer. both have made names for themselves as effective leaders in their respective states and

both have embraced the fight, and teaching publicly with critics and those who disagree with them. here are some of the highlights from my conversations with both of those governors. do you feel like you are making a difference when you come on fox news? >> i don't know. my father-in-law sees me. >> your father-in-law says. >> he's a republican. >> family dinners are? i'm not saying that critically. >> everyone wants to be loved. there is a fundamental motion, we are just all human beings. i love and respect i disagree with. i don't want to talk down or passed anybody. i want them to know i am listening and i am listening to fox. i do listen. it is hard. it is demoralizing sometimes. the misinformation and disinformation is next level. i figure you can be in denial about that or accept it and say that is not the world i live

in. there is no leak on your side of the boat, we are all in this together and we have to

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lvin, and this is "dateline." chef daniel brophy was lying on his back in front of this large kitchen sink. we believe the suspect snuck up and basically assassinated him. so he never saw it coming. no.