the fontainebleau is still there, all spruced up with a new lease on life. and may has a fresh new outlook on the rest of her life too. may abad: come here, buddy. dennis murphy (voiceover): in 2011, may welcomed a new little guy in her life, a son. she named him ben after the lost prince, the namesake he never got to meet. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. [theme music] good morning and welcome to the special holiday edition of morning joe. bringing you some of the best segments from the past several weeks.

the latest vote count shows that donald trump won the popular vote by one of the smallest margins since the 19th century. regardless, the president elect is claiming a powerful mandate. >> we've got peter baker here and he's written an article about this so-called landslide. i'd like to look at two things here real quick and i love your input. it was like a point and a half race. those three states where democratic senators won, and yet donald trump picked up 49 out of 50 states. you look at where the country went, just about everywhere it

was more conservative this year than it was four years ago. i almost feel like saying, it was close to being a tie. that almost tells democrats, hey, everything is fine, you don't have to worry. democrats lost ground everywhere. two or three weeks later when everyone has taken a deep breath, what is your thought on what happened and what lessons should democrats take from it? >> i read peter's article and it was typically quite good. while it's true say this was not a landslide, we lost about 1 1/2, or whatever it is. it was a troubling election for democrats. and i think peter's suggestion is, we just keep going. no, we don't do that.

fortunately, the most optimistic thing about the democratic party is that there is so much potential talent. i hope that these people get out and start running in 2028. but two things can be true at the same time. it was not a landslide but it was very troubling for democrats. >> texas is a state where democrats have been making great gains in. it got closer in 2016, closer, down to five or six points in 2020. and florida looks like it is lost forever. you look at that map and start asking the question, where can democrats pick up senate seats in 2026? i can't find a whole lot of places outside north carolina in may.

>> back in march, i said that i thought the democratic campaign culture had too many preachy females. you moved to the vote in november, no one has come up and said anything to me. primarily we have a large problem with males. we need to address that. we don't need to be shouting down by washington liberal groups, we've got a problem that we need to get to work on. i think we can. our campaign, joe biden did not give harris much operating room. but for god sakes, and asked the question, what would you do different, have an answer, do me a favor.

i think that was very harmful. we lost a lot of ground and we don't need to sweep these things under the rug. we need to expose them, talk about them and discuss them. >> when we look at your article and the feeling of a lot of experts that it was not a landslide, already running the risk of democrats relaxing? or should they be saying, looking at whatever it was, if it is under 2%, how do we make up that 4%, were we not talking enough about the lunchbox issues, were we not talking about the cost of groceries enough? their base is concerned about those issues, too. we buy groceries in the black

and latino community. which way do you think democrats will read that they were close but they should relax because they could have won? >> make a lot of good points. the article was not meant to say democrats don't have anything to worry about. they could not beat a guy who was convicted of 34 felonies, held liable for sexual abuse and they could not beat a guy who tried to steal the last election when he lost and placed to issues of race and sex and orientation. that is a real weakness for democrats if you can't beat a guy as flawed as donald trump is in the traditional sense of politics. the traditional sense does not seem to apply to donald trump. and he has a connection to a significant part of the

population. my article is really more about going forward and how trump is trying to spin a 1.5 or 1.6% margin as a landslide. in his interest, it is to claim that he is this great landslide winner. then it gives him more influence and makes a more powerful in washington and allows him to pressure congress to follow his lead on appointments or legislation. even though no story if you looked at it, would call it that. >> thank you so much. i will tell you, looking at him overplaying his hand, perhaps, when we had a pretty close race there. it is always a danger to over

read your quote mandate even when it is not a mandate. doris, you are the perfect person to ask about this, and i am going to take you until you hit your historical spot that you know that just -- best. >> most observers understood that the american right had been rendered apolitical footnote, perhaps for good. he has wrecked his party for a long time to come and is not likely to control the wreckage. the election has finished the goldwater school of pedicle reaction. we have declared james macgregor burns one of the most esteemed of the presidency. a liberal epic of the late 19th century was a conservative one. he goes on to say that many

people said the two-party system itself, finished. goldwater was a massive landslide and yet two years later, the revolution begins in california. let's talk about it, you can find one election after another where overplaying one's hand leads to massive backlash. >> what is really interesting is that lbj won by 50 million votes. he could say that is a real landslide. he knew right from the start that that was not going to last. he took his staff together and said, okay, i won by 13 million votes. i'm going to have a fight with the congress and lose 2 million and then almost anticipating he said, i might have to send boys to foreign lands so get that

program off the ground as soon as you can. in 1965 he got almost all the great society through, medicare, medicaid, immigration reform, national foundation of the arts, and that summer, just before congress came to a close he escalated the war in vietnam. that would begin the beginning of the end of all that momentum that showed up in the 1966 election. but republicans picked themselves up by their feet, went out and had conservative think tanks. and by 1968 the democrats are out of the congress. and out of the presidency. we have these rhythms in the united states that go up and down. you can't have too much arrogance, and you can't have too much, oh no, what did we do wrong. this was not one of those

elections, that was a realigning election and that is what peter baker's article shows. it is a matter of approach and how you deal with listening to the people hurting in this society. history helps us in this regard to take ourselves not too seriously and just move forward. >> the remarkable thing about lbj in 1964 and 1965, when he did what he did in 1965 he was not overplaying his hand, he knew, and he said that he had probably lost the south for democrats for a generation but did it anyway. that is robert frost would say, has made all the difference. doris kearns goodwin, thank you so much. so, democrats are trying to figure out, what do we do. okay, you lost by 1.5

percentage points. you don't want to overreact, and yet, they got such a massive problem in middle america. it is deep red and getting deeper by the day. >> it is and the democratic trends are working against them. we talk a lot with the top strategists in the democratic party. yes, the margin, not that big but there are long-term significant consequences. let's go to you for some advice. in terms of looking at these next two years, how much should they be looking at working across the aisle and how much should be about pure resistance? >> in this campaign there were two things we could have run on that we didn't.

one was raise the minimum wage by $15 an hour. the other thing we should have run on is raising taxes on incomes above 4000. very seriously talking about young people taking this money and putting it in a mortgage relief fund so they can buy a house. this thing was going to obviously fall under its own weight. they had the altercation at mar- a-lago where everybody got tattoos. i think that this will continue. we've got to come up with our own way. make the point, america needs a raise. let's give america a raise, what's wrong with that? >> i will say, that is probably a better bumper sticker then

everybody's got a tattoo. as always, thank you so much. i love it, winning is everything, stupid, streaming now on max. and also, doris's latest book, the leadership journey, how four kids became president. in a country where freedom of speech is under siege, one man dares to defy the odds. the author of the remarkable new book on afghanistan is next. if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling ...problems urinating vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri.

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let's talk about the dnc. the race to lead the democratic national committee as two candidates have formally announced their bids. current vice chair of the dnc, and more in and former commissioner of the social security administration, martin o'malley also in the running for the top spot. governor o'malley, great to have you with us. you've thrown your hat into the ring. why do you think you are the right person for this job and how do you see the party right now in terms of what needs to change? >> i am the right person for this job because what the dnc needs right now is not a

caretaker chair but a change maker. somebody who can pull this party together and allow us the space we need to listen to not only one another but especially the voters. the people who said, look, we've lost sight of you guys. i am the only person in this race with the operational experience to turn things around and i've proven that at every level. i have chaired the governors three years in a row where we've won back states like kentucky. i know what it means to engage in those kitchen table economic issues and persuade people to vote for the choices we make and make their families stronger. >> there has been all kinds of debate over the last three weeks about what democrats

should have done. in terms of losing latino voters and black voters. it was not just about the white, working-class. this was something else. what went wrong and how would you change the approach? >> we need to be more engaged all year round. a lot of people who voted for joe biden four years ago did not turn out to vote this year. a lot of the ads i saw were in this race. they didn't speak very directly to the concerns that people had. the anxieties and fears they had about the future. the high cost of living, the cost of prescription drugs, whether i will be able to have a secure retirement. but in some states where donald trump won, our senate candidates won. we need to learn from not only the places where we failed to

connect but we need to learn from those candidates that did connect and did win. it always has to be tied back to the kitchen table. that's what i learned when i ran for city council and when i was mayor of baltimore. it is the high cost of living, the things that matter to people. that's what we need to talk about. the good news is that the change we need to win is really a return to our true selves. the party that says, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. the hope for tomorrow by the actions we take today. to strengthen every families economic well-being. >> let me ask you, i agree that you need to deal with kitchen table issues. and to some large degree, vice

president harris did but a lot of the message did not get through. how much do you think misogyny played in this in terms of people were just not going to vote for a woman. how do you think rates -- race dealt with this? are we overlooking ings that america still has to grapple with and grow into? >> all of those are factors. we are a country and we are not yet the perfect union, are we? there are a lot of scars that come along with our painful 300 year history. that is all part of the terrain. another part of the terrain is that we have not done as a party the job we need to do to protect voting rights. what does it say about us as a party that will only go into court in swing districts and swing states. we need to be a lot more full

throated. our bedrock principles are on the belief of every person and we make no compromise on those things. we need to walk the walk. the only way to make america a fair and better place is to take action here and now. there is no more important institution in our country right now then the democratic party to articulate that going forward and return to our true selves. >> how is it that so many democrats on the national level seem to have ignored the fact that there is a difference between the national economy that they would boast is the strongest in the world, but failed to outline the problems with the actual lived economy by marylanders and everywhere.

buying store products instead of brand products. how is it that so many seem to have missed the reality of life while addressing voters? >> i'm not sure. i was not involved in the campaign. i was turning around social security. i was talking to people all across the country and the anxiety and the fear of tomorrow is very real. people won't listen to our candidates unless they acknowledge the challenges and the pain and negative perceptions. at least that's what i've learned when running for office. you've got to meet people where they are. hakeem jeffries and his caucus managed to flip six districts from red to blue. so, consultants, they have a way of wanting to tell you that the only way to win a racist by

going totally negative. they become cynical and tell you not to engage in the american argument. but that is what people want to have. we need to reconnect and rebuild our party and win elections. >> martin o'malley, now officially running for chair of the democratic national committee. we want to turn overseas for a very special look at one man's mission to bring a free press to afghanistan. journalists have long been targeted their as the taliban cracks down on any form of dissent. a new book entitled radio free afghanistan written by a media executive and it takes readers inside efforts of his company

to continue his reporting under the oppressive regime that is hostile to a free press. thank you for being on. i want to hear everything about what your company is trying to do. particularly as it pertains to the education of young girls, which is a huge issue. >> we have established our business in 2002 and in 2021 we thought we would have to shut down our operations. low and behold we have continued, with restrictions. but women to -- continue to present the news and report on events around the country. they are behind the cameras and in front of the cameras and we have more women working for us today than three years ago. and we have also helped our education programs. we are doing subjects for

grades seven, eight and nine. we have continued to work in this environment. >> with respect and admiration for what you do, my simple question is, how are you still alive and how do you continue to operate? >> it is very difficult. we have to be pragmatic and we have to understand that not being there is probably worse than being there. our job is to inform, educate and entertain. the reality is something we have to accept and we made the decision to stay in 2021, knowing the risks and knowing we would have restrictions. you probably face a similar thing. we have to be realistic and pragmatic when facing those issues in the u.s. >> congratulations on what you're doing here. can you speak to, just broadly,

the conditions now in afghanistan as we had the deadly pullout, reverting, in many ways to pre-2001 conditions. what is it like today in afghanistan under taliban rule? >> it is very difficult. the situation is always a lot more nuanced than what you would read about in the media. women continue to work and drive their vehicles. it is a lot better than what we expected. in the villages, it is more restrictive. the movement is not monolithic. their are individuals that are more pragmatic than others and it is important to engage in afghanistan for the sake of the population.

43 million people should not be forgotten. >> the new book, radio free afghanistan, a 20 year odyssey for an independent voice and couple is on sale now. author, saad mohseni, thank you for coming on the show this morning. coming up, our next guest is a leading voice on the rise of artificial intelligence. eric schmidt weighs in on the future of a.i. that's next on morning joe. mo such as death, heart attack, or stroke in adults with known heart disease and obesity. don't use wegovy® with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines, or in children under 12. don't take if you or your family had mtc, men 2, or if allergic to it. tell your provider if you plan to have surgery or a procedure, are breastfeeding, pregnant, or plan to be. stop taking and get medical help right away

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let's turn now to former google ceo, eric schmidt, co- author of the new book, entitled genesis, artificial intelligence, hope, and the human spirit. his co-author was the lead dr. henry kissinger. i want to start with your two co-authors. they really all bring something different to the book. explain the three. >> dr. kissinger was a great patriot and diplomatic. >> and a rival and friend of my fathers. >> is really as was such that at 95 he could learn a new field but needed teachers. craig and i helped him understand what algorithms and so forth were.

he had been working on the question of humans and self identification since he was studying at harvard right after world war ii. that's what got him excited about a.i. >> tell us about the focus of the book and where you feel a.i. can be beneficial to our future and where the challenges lie. >> the great thing about a.i. is to be incredibly optimistic about its use in health, science and so on. but the good outpaces the bad, by far. the most important thing is how we react to it. every child will grow up with a.i. for the rest of their lives. a.i. will change them in the book talks about this. >> i think we hear that there is great benefits in education

and medicine. can we be specific about this, what about medicine? how will it make our lives better and easier? >> much faster drug discovery. the computer can go through millions and millions of data and they can run the tests while humans are having coffee to find drugs to cure cancer and other diseases. it can help climate change. you will not sell climate change without new sources and materials and you need a.i. for that. you need the cord fences of chemistry and physics but eventually they will be smart enough to develop whole new mathematical theories that we as humans cannot figure out. >> during the campaign we see

things like deepfakes and things like that and there have been calls for legislators to make laws to pump the brakes. it seems that the united states congress could never keep pace with technology, so what are some appropriate guardrails? >> this is happening much faster than anyone thinks. we are talking about trillions of dollars in investment. the most important thing is to look at extreme cases. when there is real harm. we can argue about whether the deepfake was humorous or not. but if there is real harm, somebody is hurt or killed, there needs to be change in legislation that makes it much tougher to do. one of the problems with a.i., it cannot to date tell you how

it knows something. >> let's talk about education and the impact, good and bad that a.i. might have. in the bigger picture, how can it help people learn but also maybe get in the way? >> first, we should solve the education globally. a.i. will build a tutor and train itself based on how you learn. it can do it in math, physics, arts and language and so forth. maybe it is okay in the u.s. but for the vast majority of the world they don't have access to our kind of education. the real issue is this tension between information and disinformation and how it is essentially produced. it is so easy to produce little rabbit holes where people end up and it ultimately convinces them to do terrible things like

kill themselves. they've got to get a hold of those either through liability or guardrails. >> i'm curious about your point of view as a businessman, new administration coming in, what the economy broadly looks like as a man who understands how it works so well. >> we have to take the past and future president for his word. he also brought antitrust charges against google and meta and his current fcc argument said we should de-accelerate programming and that the big tech program should be heavily regulated. it seems that the administration has not yet figured out if their fundamentally libertarian or trying to regulate. they need to sort that out.

>> eric schmidt, thank you very much. the new book, genesis, artificial intelligence, hope and the human spirit is on sale now. thank you for coming on the show. up next, an actress on her new series about real life maple heist. you are watching a special edition of morning joe. mornin hmm... i see. (limu squawks) only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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if i don't get every drop out of my trees, i will go broke. >> what if we rob the association? >> they will have security teams and cameras. >> no cameras and only one security guard. >> the association thinks we are nothing. thinks we are invisible. we are going to steal millions of dollars of syrup right out from under their noses. >> that was a look at the new

prime video series titled the sticky, loosely based on a true story. it stars margo martindale, a down on her luck maple syrup former, in a time of crisis, turns to a life of crime, stealing millions of dollars worth of maple syrup's. congratulations on this. the phrase great canadian maple heist, you had me right there. >> me too. >> tell us how you started on this project. >> i got a call one afternoon from some woman named jamie lee curtis. she said, i was going to do this show but my schedule is not working out and the only person i could think of that is

not like -- that is like me is you. so will you do it? i said, i'll read it. and she said, no, you are going to do it. i said, okay, i probably will do it. >> it premieres today, right? >> tell us about the real-life story. >> i've never heard of it, had you? >> no, although i wish i had. tell us about the plot. >> in the real story there were a group of people who stole $18 million worth of maple syrup from a warehouse that was government controlled and they heist it it out. the way they discovered syrup was gone was because there was condensation on the barrels.

they, of course got caught. who knows if we get caught. >> i'm really excited to watch this. i've been a fan of you and you have been in so many iconic shows and movies and now you are the leading lady. what was it like carrying this film? >> it was an honor. i've always wanted to be able to set an atmosphere like other people who have done that for me and be welcoming and warm and supportive to anybody who came on the set. it was great. i am pleased to have done it. >> let's take a look at a clip where you and your crew began to plan the maple syrup heist and heavy close call with the law. >> the association as a barrel

set price. if we sell them in ottawa, they will screw us. we can go to kate in the black market. that means you have to pinch 500 barrels at night in a week. that's not just dumb, it's stupid. he's lucky they haven't noticed already. >> if his plan sucks, fine. we can come up with a better one. >> i'm not going to jail. i am not getting arrested. >> ruth landry you are under arrest. >> that's a great clip. you filmed this in canada and canadians are as proud of their maple syrup as they are their love of hockey. what was it like doing it there

knowing what it meant to them? >> it was fantastic. it was great to be in a show that was about canada and it was canada instead of being another town, new york city, chicago or los angeles. it was canada. all very french, very fun, wonderful people. it was a joy. a real joy. >> the sticky is streaming now on prime video. margo martindale, thank you for being here. coming up, keira knightley joins us to talk about her new spy thriller. and also settles an age-old debate about christmas movies. the two-time oscar nominee is our guest here in studio, next.

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she has been feeding us government secrets for 10 years now. >> anything you want to tell me? >> no. >> this morning a man was killed on the south bank. you might have compromised yourself. and now it's time to get to

work. >> hello, darling. >> that's a shotgun. >> yes. >> that reminded me of the scene in love actually. that same kind of christmas vibe. >> that's a netflix series entitled black doves. starring keira knightley as helen webb. a london-based housewife married to a defense minister who leads a covert double life as a spy. she goes on a quest for revenge following the murder of her secret lover. joining us now on the heels of a nomination for a golden globe

in the category of best performance by an actress in a tv drama series. she also serves as executive producer. congratulations on all of this. >> thank you, that's nice. >> how do you prepare for this character who is leading a double life to say the least and actually has a fight scene pregnant with twins? she is special. >> i was channeling the mom rage. i was really taking it for a school run. you know when you are fighting with your children in the morning and then you get to school and see the first mom at the gate and you're like, hi. >> we were laughing as we came in because i was describing how intense and excellent that

scene was. i didn't think we would show it, but there it was. you have had such an incredible career on film. nominated for a couple of awards. and now here you are in this netflix series. it doesn't feel like, even since you got in the business, this whole new world has opened up where you can do cinematic polity work like this. how much fun was that for you? >> it was so much fun. i wanted to do something that was pure entertainment. we get blown out of buildings and we don't even have a scratch. so it is fun and serious at the same time. >> there really has been in art, everybody used to talk about movies and now we were talking about, say nothing. it really seems that culture

has moved to the sort of things you are doing here. >> it is so nice because you get to explore very strange stories and strange people. her morality is deeply questionable but over six hours you get the opportunity to explore that. >> one of the other striking characters of the film is london itself. >> it is another character. it was made by a bunch of londoners. we all deeply love our city and we wanted to represent it by the way we live in it. you get a punk sort of vibe. >> that's us, very punk. >> imitation game, pride and

prejudice, bend it like beckham, love actually, you've had so many incredible roles, what is different about this one as a female lead and what you like about that? >> i suppose the violence in it is different in this one. i haven't done action for about 18 years and it was a bit of a shock to get back into it but remarkably fun. maybe that goes back to the mom rage. i'm a mom of two very lovely small children. we've got to get it out of our system. >> i will say that the fight scene we saw was very convincing. is the action part of it a blast? >> it was. i really enjoyed it. in the original script i was just a spy and he was doing all the fighting. but i really enjoyed it.

>> talk a little more about doing a series instead of a movie. where you spend 3 1/2 shows going, could her character be any worse? it allows you more opportunity to draw on that. >> normally if you are doing the film you have to make very sudden choices. when you've got six hours or eight hours, you can really take it in different directions. i think that makes it fun for the audience and fun for the actor playing it. >> i love a female lead showing depth, showing that she can be imperfect, instead of being the victim. >> so let me finish with this irritating question. i love love actually.

i didn't realize, i understand that there is a huge divide out there. love it or hate it. i thought everybody loved it. >> could you imagine if i suddenly turned around, i do love it but i've only seen it once. >> that's normal. what he does is not normal. >> i've watched elf 1 million times. >> what is your favorite christmas movie? >> die hard. definitely. >> and yes, it is a christmas film. >> black doves is streaming now

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welcome to this special holiday edition of morning joe. bringing you some of our best segments. >> i thought before we brought in george packard we will set this up and cross-examine george.

i think george is one of the best and brightest. i love to have him on because he is very insightful. i'm so glad he is on because there is a debate. i'm curious about your thought. there is a lot of talk about how the democratic party has to re-examine everything they've done. and i've talked about the massive gains in texas, florida, middle america. but there is another side of that. the slim -- is the mr. majority since her herbert hoover. and if you go state-by-state, state-by-state, less than one percentage point in wisconsin. about less than 1.5 percentage points in michigan and pennsylvania. that is the difference between a democratic president and a

republican president. also one other thing, whenever he talks about the rise of the far right and everything else, donald trump got less votes in 2024 then he got in 2020. i'm not here to say people voted against kamala harris in large numbers because she was a woman or because she was a black woman even though the united states of america almost stands alone in not electing women to the top spot. right? if you look at these estates, you and i remember 1972, 1984, even 1980. remember all of those democrats that got swept out in those landslides. kamala harris barely lost to

wisconsin. and tammy harris won. she lost pennsylvania but they had to go a couple of weeks before figuring out whether bob casey had won or lost. so again, we are talking about the thinnest of margins. this is one of those things where we said, two things can be true at once. democrats need to examine what they've done but at the same time let's not pretend that this was like a 1984 landslide. this was an election within the margin of errors and with those three swing states, are you going to blow everything up for 1.5%? in my opinion, you are not. >> you're going to settle down and step back from the ledge and you are going to look at

the loss because you did lose the election. but you are not going to blow everything up. the country is very evenly divided. these elections are close one way or the other. if i were advising the democratic party i would say, one thing you really need to look at is your declining share among latino voters. i don't think the democratic party understands the latino community or latino voters because there are a number of different communities. they don't understand that portion of the electorate well enough. it is a growing portion of the electorate that needs to be understood. but, no, i don't think you have to start from scratch and say,

let's tear down the entire democratic party and build a new one. we did, after all, go into this election with a black south asian woman at the head of the ticket. and while we did not talk about that a whole lot, nonetheless, this is the united states of america and i don't think you will ever convince me that that had no impact on the result. again, we are talking 1.5% one way or the other. so, you know. >> to that point, there is some hard realities and major work to be done to make for a resounding win so those issues don't -- let's bring in george packard, arguing that the 2024

election has launched us into a new era, when he calls the trump reaction. i thought we were already in that era. >> we presented our opening argument and return it over to you. >> i suddenly got the feeling that i had actually signed up for a firing squad. i will do my best. look, first of all, don't put me in a corner where i never went. i am not saying the democratic party is finished and needs to be rebuilt. you've been talking about some historic parallels. i would draw an analogy to 1968 when richard nixon barely defeated the incumbent vice president who had taken over

for the incumbent president who had withdrawn from the race. that was a really close election but signaled a big change, which was the end of new deal liberalism. it took about 12 years before reagan swept away in 1980. but that is where i'm looking, for a trend toward right-wing populism, a global phenomenon and it has been coming in this country for eight years. but the fact that donald trump won again despite being pretty unpopular and having tried to overthrow an election and despite being a convicted felon, tells me that that trend and cinnamon in the public to overthrow the status quo is a really strong one. strong enough to re-elect this

degenerate felon and democrats would be foolish to not look at that and say, we may be defending a status quo that the country has had enough of. >> in the piece that you wrote for the atlantic, 1964, massive democratic majority. that lasted basically until 1980. in 1980 you can argue that the reagan revolution and ended in probably 2003. but what i did not gather from the piece was the impact of an outside force called the culture on our politics. did not that change everything in terms of persuasion? the impact of the culture was far more important than any

specific candidate. >> i think that is a great point. i did talk about the challenge for journalists in an age where facts seems to -- cease to exist. there was no way to make back steak with billionaire platforms pouring disinformation, lies and propaganda at followers and account holders, every minute of every day. that is unlike anything the media has ever seen before. it is a bigger problem than i've even said because democrats are talking about what new policies might work to bring back latino voters, younger voters, working-class voters. what about policies no longer matter or stick with the voters and instead, as you say, it is culture, motion, images and lies that people have become

unable to separate from the truth. that worries me more than kash patel running the fbi. >> there has been so much talk about soul-searching in the democratic party and how it needs to change its message to voters. that is a reputation that has been earned over decades. now donald trump, the billnae with an apartment on fifth avenue with the castle by the beach as the man of the people. how do democrats begin to pull back some of the message that it was built on so many years ago? >> i am not someone the party should turn to for political advice. i don't like to play that role. but as i say, i think the party is strongest when it focuses on

economics, especially the economics of struggling people in this country and what they need and what they want. not on cultural issues that are divisive and divide the democratic party within itself as much as it divides democrats from republicans. the gradual and really long- term change in the identity of the party from a working-class based party to an educational party has given it some new boaters but mostly it has lost voters and that trend continued in 2024. in new york city where i live, the boroughs that show voted trump have increased. queens, bronx, the voting where harris has increased, that is manhattan and that is not a party that america can afford

to not win on. >> we also thank the spirit of orson welles. >> this is very traumatic. >> no, you are killing me. >> all five stars. thank you, george. coming up, a look at the search for a new leader of the democratic national committee. we will be joined by the democratic party chair from wisconsin. we will be right back.

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the race to lead the democratic national committee is beginning to take shape. four candidates have thrown their hats in the ring. the chair of the minnesota democratic farmer labor party, ken martin, martin o'malley and james skoufis. good to have all of them putting their hats in the ring. here with us is wisconsin democratic party chairman ben wikler. and your hat is in the ring, too. it came from state that kamala harris loss, what makes you the logical next step to lead the party and what do you think the biggest challenge is for the party moving forward? >> good morning. thank you for having me on.

we need a fighter that can unite the party and when in tough conditions. wisconsin did go for trump but by the smallest margin. we won our u.s. senate race and 14 u.s. legislative seats. the reason we could do all that is because we built a permanent campaign that organize -- organizes in red and blue states, nonstop. we know that they will try to abuse their power and shred the federal budget to give trillions of dollars to billionaires at the expense of working people. we saw this before, republicans took total control here and in a frenzy of right-wing attacks, gerrymandered and suppressed the vote but we figured out how to fight back by organizing in rural and suburban areas alike

and we need to do the same thing nationwide to fight against the threat of the maga extremists. >> are you saying that their are no ways that the democratic party will need to change your strategy? >> we absolutely need to adapt and change. one of the biggest challenges we have, we can see all the data that came out of this election, there are people in every part of the united states, people who had taken it on the chin, who felt that with the pandemic, the support has gone away. and people who paid the least attention to politics, they are the folks we lost.

what we can tell is that they were not here in our message at the volume and with the clarity we needed. if they only hear about democrats from republicans then we will lose. we need to reach the people who are not thinking about politics every day and are trying to make it through their own lives and make it clear to them that we are fighting for them against a group of people who are trying to divide america to enrich themselves. that is what you see in the trump administration. >> another group that democrats lost this time around, latinos. certainly any erosion of support there. it is certainly not a monolith group, let's make that clear. but how do we win back a block that broke in a surprising way this time around. >> most latinos and americans are working-class voters. they are folks trying to make

sure they can take care of their families and build the lives that they need. latinos and other americans are struggling with the price of housing and groceries. the question that all voters have is, who is on my side and fighting for me? for democrats the central appeal is making the case that we are fighting for people to have a better life. it starts with the economy and also means freedom, dignity and respect. that should be at the core of every american. but if people don't think you are for them, they are not interested in any other issue. the democratic party that spotlights that the republicans talked a good game but the real agenda is to sell off this country to the highest bidders and to those who funded donald

trump's campaign are now reaping the rewards. that is how we unite the party. >> chair of the democratic party of wisconsin, thank you very much for coming on the show. as aptly and deftly that you can speak about the nfl, that is not what you are writing about this morning. this comes as president biden concludes a trip to africa, the first of his term and likely his last foreign trip in office. he was in angola. let's talk about this trip and how important the continent of africa is right now in the world. >> it is really important because the united states needs to seriously get back into the game in terms of africa. africa in terms of population

is the fastest growing part of the world. it is the only part of the world where populations are not declining. and by the year 2051 that is where a huge percentage of working adults will be. that is where development will be happening in a major way. and china and russia have been expanding their links and their influence on angina. their building projects not just from one tip of africa to the other but in so many countries. the united states has kind of been supplanted by china and by russia. and i think that is a real mistake. i think it is a real great thing that president biden went

there. but also to demonstrate that the united states is not abandoning africa and wants to be there. they want to help in any way they can as this massive development takes place and africa becomes ever more important on the world stage. >> you worked for a republican president who did spend a lot of time and did focus on africa. but then when donald trump was in office, never went there once, spoke about it disparagingly. he is about to take office again, do you expect more of the same? >> i expect trump to look at most foreign aid and escorted. who knows how he will actually act on those.

and if he is going to appoint figureheads to those cabinets and those levels where they don't know the bureaucracy enough and won't get much of his agenda done. republicans should be so proud of george w. bush's legacy when it comes to africa. with the challenge accounts and the corporation, we have saved millions of lives and it really changed the legacy of america within africa. that is something that any republican or democrat should support. i far prefer foreign aid to be going there to be saving lives than for war, frankly. >> you do a great job shining a light on this issue that does not get enough attention. up next, emmy award and pulitzer prize-winning

journalist rich esposito is next. we talk about his new book. morning joe is coming right back. right back. ot my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti... he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms...

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a new book is giving us an inside look at the life of an journalist, the first biography about the trailblazing calm is, jimmy breslin. the books author, rich esposito joins us now.

great to see you. for the uninitiated, we will have a visceral reaction to jimmy breslin, who he is and what he meant to the city and to journalism. why did you want to sit down and investigate his life and tell his story, why was he so important? >> there was a time when people got their news from newspapers. he had 3 million readers and covered the biggest events of our time. the legacy of him is what we do, telling the facts and telling the truth. >> who was, the big question, who was jimmy breslin? >> he was so many things. he used to say he had 67 different personalities that he could not figure out. underneath it all was an insecure writer, a guy who grew up in a broken home in queens.

>> mike, jimmy was a friend of yours. talk about your friend and then take it to rich. as you know, 61 years ago this week, jimmy breslin introduced the world, not just the readers and the united states, but introduced the world to a man named clifton pollard, he was a grave digger and he made three dollars an hour and he dug the grave for president kennedy's casket 61 years ago this week. it seems to me that the jimmy breslin you outlined so prolifically and so will, he was always a guy who recognized the vulnerable because he was so vulnerable to a certain level. can you speak to his vulnerabilities based on how he

was raised. kind of a lonely kid with a determined mind to write. >> that gets to the core of him. he acted like a tough guy but inside there was a broken little boy. that broken little boy really connected to the vulnerable and was able to tell the stories of people like clifton pollard that dug the hole that not just put the president but put america's hope in the ground. he told the story in a way that we can really understand. >> the gravedigger, published in 1963. jimmy writes, "pollard is 42, he is a slim man with a mustache who was born in pittsburgh and served as a private in the 352nd engineers battalion in burma in world war ii. one of the last to serve john

fitzgerald kennedy, the 35th president of this country, was a working man who earns $3.01 an hour. he was over behind the hill digging graves in another section of the cemetery. he didn't know who the graves were for. he was just digging them and then covering them with boards. i tried to go over to see the grave, he said, but it was so crowded, i could not get through. i will get over there later, a little bit. like i told you, it's an honor. that is jimmy breslin reporting three days after the assassination. >> one of the most famous pieces ever written. i spent some time with the daily news but talk to us about what america is sort of missing with the decline of some of

those papers. just the spirit that carried the day. it is bad for us all and for democracy. >> we have some good local outlets, but they don't capture that big audience. 3 million people riding the subways in the morning. now we are getting them from our iphones. but then, this was a voice that connected with the people and we all had something to talk about. in the city we have been, whether it was chicago, new york, san francisco, they were there for the people of the town. that is, right now, missing. it is something that i think will come back. it is a different medium that the need remains.

>> what was different about what jimmy breslin had and how he reported and the trust that the public had in him than it is today where the media is held in low regard and it is a moment and lack of trust in the media. >> it is a good way to look at him. i was talking to a detective a couple of weeks ago and he said, you know, you never know if someone is going to write something good or bad about you but you always want to read it. he was able to go across that and give his perspective on what the truth was. that is a gift. and that is different than what we have right now. someone that people are willing to read that they might completely disagree with. that is a wonderful thing. >> he was there when martin luther king jr. died and rfk

was shot and killed. he really was the eyes of the country. then he showed up and occupied wall street 50 years later. >> if you don't know jimmy breslin you will get to know him and probably love him. the new book, jimmy breslin, the man who told the truth, rich esposito, congrats on the book. joe talked to jude law and nicholas holt about their new movie, the order. morning joe will be back in a moment. moment. get your welcome offer. and play with the sportsbook born in vegas. all these seats. really? get up to a $1500 new customer offer in bonus bets when you sign up now. betmgm. download and bet today. my moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. now i have skyrizi. ♪ i've got places to go and i'm feeling free. ♪

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i need your help. big groups don't rob banks. >> recruiting, training, fundraising, assassination. >> large-scale domestic terror attacks. come on! >> take him now. get out of here. >> let's go. >> 3.6 million. >> what does that buy? >> and army. >> that was part of the trailer from the new film, the order. the movie tells the story of a 1980s extremist group led by a man named robert j matthews. matthews launched a violent campaign of crime to fund his

plan to overthrow the u.s. government and in in a fiery 35 hour standoff with fbi agents on whidbey island in washington state. where matthews was ultimately killed. here is joe's recent interview with stars of the order, jude law, nicholas hoult and the screenwriter. >> jude and nicholas, i'm big fans of yours and when i heard i was going to be interviewing you guys, i was sure it was going to be some british thing, but then i see the opening scene and i'm like, wait a second. very different than what i expected. why this movie, and why now? >> it is very rare that you get a script that has an actual story that you felt needed to

be told. it had a resonance to today. and yet was also shedding light on something that happened and was a fantastic untold story and was folded into a genre piece. >> you actually have a group of young disaffected men that wanted to violently overthrow the government. >> i was researching timothy bay -- mcveigh and the oklahoma city bombing. i went in and took a trip and went to the bombing memorial. and when you walk in, one of the first things that is there is a copy of the turner diaries. it was a ludicrous book written in the 1970s by a white supremacist and became a bit of

this told him that was passed along in white supremacist circles and tells the story of a fictional group that rages a race war against the u.s. government and overthrows it and they rob banks and counterfeit money to fund this revolution and plans for a lot of our end as things are in it. in this guy, bob matthews read it and decided to try to put that book into practice. >> in 10 years we will have members in the congress and the senate. that is how you make change. progress takes time. >> you are running out of time and you've got nothing to show for it. >> you play bob matthews, a very charismatic leader that was able to inspire people to do things that they would not

obviously normally do. how hard was it to get into his head and play that role? >> it is difficult to get into the mind-set of someone like that because you've got to research and learn about what propelled them to those beliefs. bob is so clear in his devotion to this course. he finds these people and gives them a sense of self and purpose. that is something very interesting that was being explored with this script. i have worked with justin before and i knew that he would handle it very sensitively and i trusted him to look after me. there is this incredible line that is at the heart of the movie, i've chased mobsters and klansmen and it is always somebody blaming somebody else for their problems. isn't that what is at the heart

of not only white supremacy and what we are seeing here but also , let's just say the toxic version of populism we are seeing too often across the west. >> there are people that are disenfranchised and they see the world changing in ways that they are uncomfortable with and they are having a hard time catching up to. that is where you open up the door to these really insidious ideas that charismatic leaders like bob can come in and sort of give them a direction to point that anger. i think that is what is happening now and throughout history. it is very dangerous. >> it helps explain what's going on today, doesn't it? isn't that one of the -- >> justin has an interest and

tendency to put his characters in other films of his, too, in their familial environment and their community. you're looking at the person in sort of three dimension, 360 degrees and understanding, what are they lacking, what are they looking for? it doesn't lead you to have empathy for these distasteful people but it does get you to look at them holy and get them -- to understand what helps them make these decisions. i grew up watching movies and i loved the way that they would elevate genre movies. you were watching a thriller or a man hunt but you are also looking at people, about an interaction during this time. this movie has that. it also has very brazen subject

matter. it poses a lot of questions, makes you look inwards. >> thank you so much, congratulations. it is a great movie. coming up, our next guest directed one of the biggest movies in the world right now. we will talk to the filmmaker behind wicked when morning joe comes back in just a moment. a. e down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today.

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who are you and why do you seek me? >> say something. >> what am i supposed to say? >> say something. say something.

>> of the throb -- i did not know it was you. you made it. >> a clip from the blockbuster hit wicked currently in theaters. it is now the highest grossing broadway adaptation of all- time, domestically surpassing $260 million at the u.s. box office since it's release on november 22nd. joining us now, the film's director, jon m. chu. congratulations. i see why this man is smiling. is there a wicked part two underway? >> we shot them at the same time. we are in it now. >> okay. my daughter and i are going to have a wicked party.

>> talk about how, this is a long time coming. for you, this has been an idea decades in the making. >> i saw wicked before it was on broadway in san francisco. i grew up in the bay area and my mom took me and i remember feeling loan away. this was 20 something years ago. i had no idea i'd be the one they called to make it. i am very lust. >> you mentioned it was decades in the making but then the making of the actual films was very long, too. what is a production of that size like? >> in tackling the land of oz which has been seen in the wizard of oz and all these things that are embedded in our culture, we built a full lot -- full on city.

we built munchkin land and of course all the cast and then you get cynthia erivo, ariana grande, and it all comes together and takes every department to come together with physical and visual effects and add the musical element on top of that. it was a lot. i'm still tired. >> you directed one of my favorite movies, crazy, rich asians. it is moving but exciting and visually very beautiful. a very different kind of movie then we could. talk to us about how that works. >> that was something very scary to make. talking about my own cultural identity crisis was something i always avoided in my movies before because i did not want

to be seen as an asian american director, i just wanted to be seen as a director. but because of the reaction, it really changed my view of what cinema can do. when you put a movie out there, it is the only medium in the world, after one weekend, when the audience shows up it changes everything. it changed the way i looked at movies in general. >> back to wicked, one thing you did was have them sing live, don't dub it in later. talk to us about why you decided to do that. what that choice brought to the film. >> you've got two of the greatest singers of our generation. that was not the plan from the beginning because i did not want to put that pressure on them. but when you are mixing true

acting with moments of music you want it to integrate as closely as possible. music is not just something you put on top of the scenes, it is an extended part of the dialogue. they were able to weave in and out so expertly and every time we did that it got better. so we just kept doing that. we had a pianist live every day and we got to hear it echo through all of our sets all day long. we could feel it on the set. >> that is wonderful. >> talk about the new lens that viewers may have seen this so many times on broadway, get to see this through. and specifically, obviously when you are in theater the emotions have to be more grand. you have to make sure everybody sees everything. but here, with the lenses that

you've said, you can get two inches from the characters face and there is an intimacy to the film that you could never get on broadway. talk about that. >> that is the great thing about cinema. it's that, one, you walk into a theater and it is black and you were with strangers and we get to take you to the best seats in the house. it's not just what tickets you can afford. we get to do it all around the world. we get to take you 10,000 feet in the air as she spins around and you get there with her, what she is trying to express with her voice and be there with her when she says, something has changed in me. it is not just a declaration but maybe she is conflicted about that idea. and those kind of wants, especially in the state in age

when we all feel that uncomfortable feeling, it goes a long way with what people are feeling right now and cinema can do that. >> talking about an uncomfortable feeling, most authors who write a memoir talk about the uncomfortable feeling they have writing it and then talk about it when it's done. you write a memoir about seeing and being seen. tell us about your decision, any second thoughts you may have had? >> it is really awkward to write your own book, but it felt like therapy in a weird way. i felt like talking about what it meant to chase your dreams and be any creative business. when i was doing it in high school i was one of the only people. now everyone has a phone in their hand, everyone has a camera and is editing. what i wish i had at the time

was understanding what to do with that power. and understanding that what you have to say is important. i tried to say when i wish i had when i was 16 or 17 years old. something to nudge me through the uncomfortable parts of it. i love seeing people read it all around the country and get that feeling. >> wicked is in feelings -- theaters now. and john's memoir is also available now. director and author, jon m. chu, thank good morning, it is saturday, december 28th. today with the new year right around the corner, republicans gear up for a battle for the gavel. donald trump isn't so sure mike jois