♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. we are so happy you're here. there is a lot to get to today including the political civil war already threatening to tear apart trump's grip on the republican party. it's one that pits elon musk against steve bannon and it's under way even before donald trump is inaugurated. there's also news about a stinging defeat for donald trump and his ongoing legal battles with e. jean carroll, but we begin with a celebration.

a celebration of a life well lived. we're talking, of course, about former president jimmy carter who passed away sunday at his family home in plains, georgia, at the age of 100. jimmy carter's life was a quintessential american dream, a peanut farmer who ascended to the white house. a nuclear engineer who brought a plain-spoken folksyness to our national politics. a man so guided by his faith and decency that after a brutal defeat to ronald reagan in the 1980 presidential contest he forged a presidency that completely redefined service to one's nation and your fellow man could look like. this weekend, president carter will be brought to atlanta, georgia, by motorcade where he will lie in repose at the carter center. on monday, january 6th, he will be flown to washington, d.c., where he will lie in state at the u.s. capitol and where thousands of mourners are expected to pay their respects

to him. a state funeral at the national cathedral will be held on january 9th where former president carter will be eulogized among others, president joe biden. he will be flown back to georgia where he will be buried next to former first lady rosalynn carter, his wife of 77 years in a family plot next to a willow tree at the edge of a pond in the small town of plains where they both grew up and spent most of their lives. it is worth noting that in accordance with federal law, president biden has ordered flags lowered to half staph for the next 30 days meaning they will still be lowered on january 20th when trump is inaugurated. in the long arc of history, jimmy carter is many things, of course, the 39th president of these united states, the nation's longest-lived president. one of only four u.s. presidents to be awarded the nobel peace prize. a president who accomplished in one term more than many

presidents accomplished in two. a man of service who dedicated himself to eradicating disease worldwide and to building houses here at home with habitat for humanity. he's a man of deep faith who taught sunday school for decades including while he served in the white housa president and a man whose love for his wife is legendary. their 77 years of marriage is the longest of any presidential couple in history, but he will also be remembered by history as a president who during his time in office approached the challenges facing this great nation with a quiet wisdom, challenges that are all too familiar right now in 2024. >> the struggle for human rights overrides all differences of color or nation or language. those who hunger for freedom, who thirst for human dignity and who suffer for the sake of justice. they are the patriots of this

cause. i believe with all my heart that america must always stand for these basic human rights at home and abroad, that is both our history and our destiny. america did not invent human rights. in a very real sense, it's the other way around. human rights invented america. ours was the first nation in the history of the world to be founded explicitly on such an idea. our social and political progress has been based on one fundamental principle, the value and importance of the individual. the fundamental force that unites us is not kinship or place of origin or religious preference. the love of liberty is a common blood that flows in our american veins. >> taken as a whole, his life is

a portrait of a man who represents the very best this nation has to offer. a legacy, as a public servant anda a humanitarian, who is a beacon of decency. something his longtime friend, president joe biden knows first hand. >> america, and the world, in my view lost a remarkable leader. he was a statesman and humanitarian. jill and i lost a dear friend. i've been hanging out with jimmy carter for over 50 years. jimmy carter stands as model of purpose and life and humility, his life dedicated to others, decency, decency, everybody deserves a shot. everybody. one of the reasons why we are looked to by the rest of the

world is our nation, we laid out what our values are. it's what we believe. it's not we hold these truths to be self-evident. there is a feeling. the rest of the world looks to us -- looks to us, and he was first looked into. >> he was worth looking to. >> the immortal word of the reverend martin luther king, junior, quote, only when it is dark enough can you see the stars. in this moment in our nation's history, jimmy carter's life and legacy shined especially bright. that's where we start today with my friend our longtime nbc news colleague, former carter white house intern, thank you so much for taking all of the things that occupy your post-msnbc life to talk to us on this occasion. >> hello, my friend. i miss you and thank you for thinking of me and thank you for

having me on. i will take your cue and your brilliant opening segment today and -- and call this a celebration of a life well lived. >> what does he mean today? with all of the turns toward darkness that if you go back and look at some of his speeches, he tried so hard to level with the american people, and he wasn't always a ppreciated for doing s, but what does his life mean to you today? >> well, a life of decency, of profound intellect, and i hep hope his intellect is not lost in the coverage that will come in the next several days. the author of 30 being boo books. he had this fiery, fiery brain and studied nuclear physics. in carter's case he was a decent man who defeated a decent man,

gerald ford who simply could not get the film of watergate and that era off of him. so this new, young crowd from georgia of all places emerged on the national stage i think -- another thing i'm seeing creep into the coverage and he is the best ex-president and i have to credit jonathan arthur, a bonified scholar and biographer who appeared on this network yesterday in the minutes following word of president carter's dead who said that that appalachian, the best ex-president, carter found hurtful. he had no personal vanity, but he was vain about his reputation, his accomplishments and his presidency. he was proud of the fact that he put solar panels on the roof of the white house before such a thing was even discuss in the public do main.

>> yes, he had the best ex-presidency of the men who had led our nation, but your points, the accomplish ams of his presidency and crowning campaign just would not have happened in there not been a man named jimmy carter on earth. that was a calling, let's not forget, his own sentence of religion called him, too. he thought -- he thought peace in the middle east as a christian american man, president of the united states was his duty. >> his faith was something he wore so comfortably which you don't always see in politics in either party. that also makes him feel different, different from many figures on the stage these days. >> yes, and i'll throw the following hand grenade into this remembrance and say that the presidency of jimmy carter.

his emergence as a national political figure was the first event that exposed the political support of american evangelicals as something more transactional than, i think, any of us wanted to believe or admit. there will never be a more evangelical evangelical than jimmy carter, born-again christian. taught bible study until his body failed him and he was forced to stop appears with his small congregation in plains on sundays. the congressional went with a celebrity, and his piety combined with his level of thrift, his flintiness, the fact that he was wearing clothing in

his last years on earth that had hung in the white house 45 years ago. the fact that he and mrs. carter kept an igloo cooler on the back porch of their modest plains, georgia, house as an overflow during the holidays if their refrigerator got too full. he had no interest in physical effects. he had no interest in the trappings of the job, something he later admitted was a mistake on his part. he -- he deglorified the presidency to such a degree that i think that, combined with his lack of political washington acumen, with his kind of lack of personal stature, when jimmy carter walked into the room because he was shorter than midwest in height it was possible to be at a white house reexception and not know yet that he was there.

part of that was his fault. he ordered them stop playing "hail to the chief" when the president entered the room. he wanted to get us away from the nixon-era imperial presidency where nixon had outfitted the guards outside the west wing in ridiculous, though blissfully short-lived outfits and the like. jimmy carter wanted to be who he was which was something rr different entirely. upon. >> brian williamss, we miss you so much, flintyness & have never humg together in my life. ooh all telling story that is unridiculous izable. why do you think that is? >> our time, our era has changed and social media has changed society in ways that we are

living in a time of great historians. they are not yet caught up on the change we're living every day from x to facebook to instagram to truth social, on and on and on. it has forced upon us an era of celebrity. >> yeah. >> where ordinary folks walking the earth every day heretofore now have followers of their own. this is an intense and profound dynamic. it allows people after a lifetime of celebrities being the people we would watch on television and in movies, massive public figures. we've entered the era where, you know, you, too, can be a thing in your own realm. that has changed everything. our politics has taken a rancid, partisan turn. media is now available in all

bite-sized forms. you can wake up in america and watch only the network you agree with. >> yeah. >> that limits the scope of what you're going to get and let's not forget how much, this man was armgs life for. we are only 248-year-old, we are talking about the death of a 100-year-old the first president, and his father, we are about to ring in 2025. it brings an particularly know known future and we were together just as we watcheded this young georgian take office and figuring out who our new president was in 1976. >> how did you come intern in the carter weiss?hite house? >> it sn't through my

formidable college education. i had none, still don't and ran into -- i ran into a guy in washington, d.c. who was my age. he was a college student at catholic university and he had to vacate his white house internship to attend some family matters in st. louis, and i interviewed for it. so supremely unqualified was i. i had a west-wing all-access pass. i had o business in that position. i did real work and enjoyed it. i owned exactly one blue blazer which i purchased with my sears employee discount in middletown, new jersey. i wore it every day for a year. no one seemed to notice because it was the coin of the realm and the wrapping of all men in washington, d.c. it was fascinating. i had several encounters with president carter, usually my

hands or knees were shaking. i had the experience of hearing someone clear their throat behind me while doing xerox copies in the west wing and it happened to be vice president walter mondale. just a crazy chapter in my life and carter, of course, in the years that followed was the most surprised that my life had resulted in any success and got an enormous kick out of all of the times we encountered each other. journalist and former president here and around the world, and he was always quite lovely to me. >> brian, the way you describe him, i imagine he was a president who was in some cases probably more around his own interns than some of the other heads of state or titans of business or other dignitaries that came in. can you tell us about some of your encounters with the president as an intern? >> yes. i think if he had a slogan to put on the door of the oval office and it's no knock on him,

it's just the way he was wired, it would be be bright, be brief, be gone. he would look up from his desk. he would stop the conversation he was in to find out what fresh hell was awaiting him in the next interruption, and promptly go back to work. i think too little is made of one biographical point, nicole and that is in addition to being the president to have graduated from annapolis. he was a submariner. this man who studied physics also passed with flying colors the aptitude test required to be a submariner, and it calls for a loner. it calls for an introvert. it calls for someone supremely self-motivated, but also good at close team work. it calls for someone who thrives

on the company of himself and a good book in the rack after his ship on a nuclear submarine. he was an officer on the "uss los angeles" and one of his great career honors was having the "uss jimmy carter" named after him and it was a unique, one-off stand alone submarine in our fleet with a special section at mid ships to conduct all kinds of unsavory, to our enemy, at least, special operations around the world. he was inordinately proud of that vessel and lived long enough, of course, to see it launched, but you know, he just -- i think nervousness was the chief quality of -- of especially us young 'uns and rookies who came in his presence and company, but he could also be warm and charming.

his secretary susan clough outside the oval office the his gate keeper and you can easily tell from susan, was he in residence? was he around? how was today's mood? how frantic or easy going was that day in the white house? >> brian williams, we miss you every day and the big nights and every day news story ies that w use to cover today. it was such a treat. don't be a nger to us. >> long time viewer, doing my part. we'll have much per on the life and legacy of president jimmy carter from his life-saving contributions to global health all around the world to his nearly eight decades long love affair to former first lady rosalynn carter. our panel joins us next. also ahead, president carter's reputation for candor and

truthfulness and the remarkable speech he gave 45 years ago that resonates more than ever today. we'll lay some of it for you and later, we'll take a closer look at this civil war currently engulfing donald trump's maga allies and how just three weeks before trump takes office maga world is engaged in an ugly public brawl over just how extreme the topic of immigration it should really be. we'll have all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. tinues

delta air lines weighed in

today with this tweet, quote, every time jimmy carter flew delta he shook hands with every person on the plane because that's who he was, someone who treated people as people. >> let's bring in our panel to help digest why that's so extraordinary. chief white house correspondent for "the ew york times," post of politics nation host al sharpton and democratic strategist and professor, msnbc political analyst basel smikle. >> i was listening to brian williams and he led with that throughout his political career and he actually credits the time he grew up not in plains, but in archery, georgia, and he would say around african-american family, he played with them, he went to church with them and went to school with them and he

talked about how this african-american bishop had a profound impact on shaping his life. as he's campaigning with governor and recognizing that he has alabama into segregation and determining i need to lead away with this, he leads us well with his faith and he becomes president at a time and it was an incredible statistic, in 1976, the gallop poll said a third of america considered themselves born again. a third of america. he's becoming president at a time when the evangelicals were not as engaged in politics, but were becoming engaged. he entered it with a sort of pious optimism coming out of vietnam and such and developed these incredible relationships with people like vernon jordan to usher in the civil rights

agenda. it's extraordinary if you think about it because in his speech at the top of the show, you can hear how faith, whatever hurt you have today i'll find a way to get you through that and that was because of the deep faith that he had. >> it also undergirds, rev, all of his views of who we were and this humility that this profound humility that america didn't create human rights, but human rights created america is just so powerful. >> it's very powerful, and -- and -- and you must remember the context of which the emergence of jimmy carter to being president happened. in 1972, the election before the '76 election that he ran and won, the country had to choose between richard nixon and george

mcgovern, the democratic party had gone to what was then considered the left. i remembered when i was 17 years old i was with shirley chisholm's campaign during those primaries and george mcgovern was soundly defeated by richard nixon, but then watergate happens and we didn't get out of the vietnam war. so we were in the middle of a political and moral crisis and national crisis when they come out of the south, the deep south, at that. this unknown governor from georgia named jimmy carter who had all of the stability and had all of the bearings of someone that was calm and deliberate and was talking about he believed in faith. he literally calmed down a nation, and i think that's why he beat gerald ford because the republican party was in disarray

because of watergate and vietnam. they did not want to go what they considered too liberal then. he became the alternative and he embraced it. the whole question of him and civil rights not only did he have a great relationship with vernon jordan who headed the national urban league at that time, he appointed one of the senior members of martin luther king's staff, andrew young. dr. king had only been killed less than ten years before the '76 race. he appointed him the u.n. ambassador for the united states which was unbelievable and very controversial, and he made andy young the u.n. ambassador. his education, the director -- his education, i should say, education ahead at that time, cabinet member califano funded reverend jesse jackson's education initiative. he was from the deep south and the other one calling for human rights and he was very close to

daddy king senior and coretta scott king and martin down through the years. he was as different as you can be at a time we needed a difference and lastly, when you talk about his faith, every time i spoke with him he would always say i see you out there with civil rights leadership, but don't forget you're a preacher now. i preach every sunday. i can't run a national organization and run a church, but i'm somewhere on sunday. is your prayer life strong? he meant this stuff. this was years after he was president, he lived and abided by what he talked about, and you just kind of knew there was a presence about him that you felt the authenticity of this man. >> peter baker, you shared in the obituary in "the new york times," your thoughts or fill in blanks that haven't been mentioned by any of the guests yet. >> well, there's so much to say about jimmy carter and that's so

much for a one-term president he left a big mark, both successes and failures, but there's so much to discuss. what's remarkable he had four years in the white house and during those four years as jonathan alsoer and kai burg wrote, he accomplished more than a lot of people remember. he created the department of education. he created the department of energy, and he put solar panels on the white house because he saw the future of energy and climate being important. he secured the treaties that turn the panama canal over to panama which has become an issue with donald trump. he signed an arms control treaty with the soviets and recognized diplomatically china for the first time and granted amnesty to vietnam and draft dodgers and of course, the most important achievement of our lifetime probably the camp david middle east peace accords. big failures, as well.

the iran hostage crisis debilitated him, a big drag on the reelection and the economy was doing bad when he went up against ronald reagan and the malaise, that there was a crisis of confidence gave him a dower personage when americans preferred their leaders to be optimistic and to project hope and energy. so that was just his time in office. what we talked about since his office the humanitarian work around the world, fighting disease and making peace. i'll give you one example. he set out in 1986 as a former president to combat a disease called guinea worm in africa. in 1986 there were 3.5 million cases of guinea worm. this year up until november there were seven recorded cases of guinea worm. >> wow. over the course of his presidency, a remarkable change. >> it's a remarkable model and you look at the post-presidency

of the people that came after, it's clear that he broke those barriers. i want to be sensitive to brian williams' note he didn't only like to be rell brated for his presidency, but he was a role models. >> just hearing that i thought about the days i traveled with the clinton foundation and the hiv/aids on how to bring drug prices down for people with aids and hiv, and you realize that it was carter who did drive that model for what the former leader of the free world could do. >> right. >> -- in the current world. >> and that's the model for the clinton -- both president clinton and the burbs. peter baker and the reverend al sharpton, it's a privilege to have you on this topic on this day. thank you so much for starting us off. still ahead for us, peter mentioned we'll turn to

president carter's most memorable speech remarkable at the time and as relevant as ever right now today. stay with us. relevant as ever right now today. stay with us and i have spastic cerebral palsy. it's a mouthful. one of the harder things is the little things that i need help with: getting dressed, brushing your teeth, being able to go out with your friends by yourself. those are hard because you don't want help, but you need it. children like jaxon need continued support for the rest of their lives. whoa, whoa, whoa. and you can help. please join easterseals right now, with your monthly gift. i'm almost there. the kids that you are helping, their goal is to be as independent as they can. these therapies help my son to achieve that goal.

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let's say you're deep in a show with your monthly gift right now. or a game or the game. on a train, at home, at work. okay, maybe not at work. point is at xfinity. we're constantly engineering new ways to get the entertainment you love to you faster and easier than ever. that's what i do. is that love island? today as we look back on the life and legacy of the 39th president of these united states, gemmy jimmy carter we r on the address he gave to the nation in 1979. it's known as his malaise speech even though as peter baker said

he never used that word. in this address president carter made an appeal to all americans, to every one of us to look deeper into our souls as american citizens. it was remarkable at the time, but also sound like something that applies all too well to right now, to this political climate today. >> i want to talk to you right now about a fundamental threat to american democracy. the threat is nearly invisible in ordinary ways. it is a crisis of confidence. it is a crisis that strikes at the very heart, soul and spirit of our national will. we can see this crisis in the growing doubt about the meaning of our own lives and in the loss of a unity, of purpose for our nation. the erosion of our confidence in

the future is threatening to destroy the social and the political fabric of america. there is a growing disrespect for government, and for churches and for schools, the news media and other institutions. this is not a message of happiness or reassurance, but it is the truth and it is a warning. little by little we can and we must rebuild our confidence. we can spend until we empty our treasurys and we may summon all the wonders of science, but we can succeed only if we tap our greatest resources, america's people, america's values and

america's confidence. >> joining our conversation former republican strategist political commentator, the founder of "the warning" newsletter and podcast. my friend steve schmit. you flagged this for me at 0 dark 30 and pulled chunks of it. tell us how this resonates with you right now. >> this is a profoundly important speech. it's good to be with you, nicole. henry kissinger, when he was opening up china, the relationship between the united states, he had a dinner with deng shahho ping and had a conversation about the french revolution and henry kissinger asked a question and deng xiaoping made a point that it was too soon to tell how the french revolution turned out and so in that spirit, we should look at this jimmy carter speech because this speech, along with one that eli wiesel gave on the

millennium of 1999 had a real claim to be the most important speech that was given in the last 50 years in english on american soil. this was a speech of deep, deep profound meaning that was a political mill stump. the american people did not want to have a deep conversation. they did not want to do the introspection, and what the american people chose is the mythology. part of this speech, as carter's getting ready to give it, he's advised to talk about john winthrop, the pilgrims, the shining city on the hill. the shining city on the hill, of course, john kennedy alludes to it in his famous speech in 1961, but this becomes the mainstay of ronald reagan's campaign. the idea that jimmy carter rejects as frivolous for the

moment as not appropriate to the truth telling becomes the cudgel with which his opponent beats him with, but when you go back today from 2024 a quarter way into the 21st century, it's a remarkable speech to read from a man who was born in a country that had 115 million people in 1924. when he was president we were 218 million people. we are a much bigger country today. 340 million of us and what this speech is about is connection and faith. faith in the country and it's a remarkable address, and i hope your audience will take the time to listen to it and read it. it's a great address. >> since you flagged it for me this morning, i went back and looked at president obama's convention speech, and you even heard some echos in president obama nodding to the isolation. it's almost an update.

i mean, president carter talks about the gap between our citizens and government nz has never been so wide and president obama talks about the isolation not just from government, but from one another. they're sort of the soft sides of our politics, to use your word. trump took out a cudgel and has made a lot of people feel like they're gone forever and talk about why they don't work in the context of presidential contests in this year's contest. >> timing is an underappreciated quality in politics and sometimes people don't want to hear what they don't want to hear until it becomes necessary to know the information. the life of jimmy carter lasted 100 years. it's a very long time. his presidency was in the middle of his life and over the span of

it, he accomplished remarkable things including the eradication of the guinea worm, for example, massive amounts of suffering all over the world and when you judge jimmy carter's presidency, the one theme that you'll find over and over again is reconciliation and one of the things we'll learn a lot more about in the next couple of days is the depth of the friendship between jimmy carter and gerald ford. they had the closest relationship among any former president and a real, deep, genuine friendship and gerald ford's eulogy will be read at the funeral. it will be a real highlight. >> it's great to see you. it's great to have your insights. >> good to see you. >> thank you very much for joining us on this today, and we will post the transcript and as many of the clips as we can. when we come back, something very much in short supply since the carter era, truthfulness in

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i do not promise a quick way out of our nation's problems. when the truth is that the only way out is an all-out effort, what i do promise you is that i will lead our fight, and i will enforce fairness in our struggle

and i will ensure honesty and above all, i will act. >> that was president jimmy carter reaffirming his pledge to the american people, honesty, no matter what it is a long, long way where the country was when he took office to today's country of rampant lying with one party's leaders total dependence on ignoring the truth in a new book called "beyond the big lie" the founder of the fact-checking website, bill adair examines what he calls the epidemic of political lying and why republicans do it more and how it can burn down our democracy. bill adair writes this, lying matters because it destabilizes our social fabric. lying matters because it threatens our democracy. lying matters because it endangers our health. >> lying matters because it cripples our discourse. our political parties and elected officials are unable to have adult conversations about

the critical issues of our time. they can't agree on facts because one side denies the truth. bill adair joins us now. bill, i don't know that there's a more legitimate claim to a must read ahead of the inauguration than this. i am so glad that you wrote and, and i am so glad that you're here. one thing that's clear before election day is trump supporters believe him on the issue of mass deport eggs and on the issue of ending birthright citizenship. you hear anecdotally and in the polls that he won't do any of that stuff, he's just going to juice the economy or get rid of inflation which none of his policies actually do. have you ever seen that phenomenon before? >> it's really troubling, nicole, and we saw it during the campaign where so many of his

supporters would say oh, i know he's lying, but you know, that's trump and what i like about him is he's going to blow things up, and i think this speaks to a real erosion in the value of truth in our politics, and it's really worrisome, and i think this is something that jimmy carter understood that truth matters, that honesty matters. jimmy carter was a guy who was so honest that in 1980 when "60 minutes" asked him to assess his own presidency, he gave himself bs and cs. who does that today? you know, here we are today with this tremendous erosion in truth and it's really worrisome and as you alluded in the subtitle of my book, there's a real imbalance in our parties. >> what is the fix? >> well, it's interesting, and i

think the fix in many ways, you can go back to what jimmy carter said in promising not to lie. i think one of the fixes is to change how politicians regard the truth? part of this is that people have to come along and people have to want the truth, about i'm not sure how we accomplish that, but i think politicians could make a big step toward this if they valued truth and if they began to value it in the same way that they value as they say low taxes and one thing that i propose is a pledge similar to what carter talked about. imagine that if politicians signed a pledge saying i won't lie to you and challenging their opponents to do the same thing. a very simply worded pledge, the impact that could have? and so i write about this in the

book and say, you know, if we were to try this it might just have an impact. >> it sounds idealistic. i want to press you on it and i want to bring basil in, will you stick around? >> you get. >> we'll be right back. stick ard >> you get >> we'll be right back

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democrats the ones signing it. >> there are truth in actions. jimmy carter had that and he had conviction and lost his job because of it. when he became governor he said we need to end segregation. when he was in the white house he appointed more women and people of color to the bench than any president to that point combined. so when you think about the way that he lived and the way he infused his religious beliefs and his humanity into our humanity, you have to be that convicted to do it, and to be able to stand up at the point of that malaise speech he's losing evangelicals because they're upset at him for the moves that he's making, and he knew that and you can sense that tension there, and so i would love for our leaders to be able to take this pledge and to do the same thing if he is convicted and it seems like it's in short supply these days. >> bill, the lying is both the cause and the symptom, right? for the threat to our democracy? how do you get at cause.

the cause is what you alluded to, a public that doesn't demand character from its leaders. >> well, i think we need leadership that as basil was alluding, takes this as an important cause and says, this is going to be an important issue for me. this is one of my core principles, and i will not lie to you, and makes this a cornerstone of their plan going forward and i don't know that that necessarily has to be the democratic party. i think people are ready for truth. i think people are ready for honesty, and so -- and i don't think that necessarily -- although my book talks about, it is definitely the republican party that lies a lot more than democratic party, but it doesn't have to be that way. >> republicans do it more and how it could burn down our democracy, as we sort of tiptoe

toward inauguration, we'll be calling on you. thank you very much for joining us and the book. basil, thank you for spending the hour with us. still ahead for us, trump's maga movement is engulfed in a hot war, a brutal political fight hitting the two political gladiators against each other. elon musk on one side and steve bannon on the other. we'll tell you about it "deadline: white house" is back after a very short break. shortk it's a mouthful. one of the harder things is the little things that i need help with: getting dressed, brushing your teeth, being able to go out with your friends by yourself. those are hard because you don't want help, but you need it. children like jaxon

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let me review this. the h-1b visa program is a total and complete scam to destroy the american worker. they say, this is -- and we all get together and have a group hug? no. we will not get together and have a group hug. you will either learn how to fight or get off the

battlefield. >> it is -- hello again. it was just a matter of when, right? not if, but when. yet, the fact that president- elect donald trump's two most prominent supporters are already engaged in an ugly public civil war before president-elect donald trump is even anywhere close to the oval office again is riveting, instructive, the least surprising thing to happen so far? i do not know. today, we will call it a lesson in what happens when a political movement is grounded not in a set of policies or even a ideology that is recognizable, but in one person. the tension is around the issue of immigration as is so often is in today's republican party, specifically the use of work permits called h-1b visas. they allow companies in the

u.s. to bring in foreign workers, talent not available here for specialized roles on a short-term basis, but easily renewed. in one corner of the medical smack down is the guy you just saw, steve bannon. he is aligned with those like laura loomer and they insist that american jobs are for american workers, including these jobs. the other corner, the other maggot titans, people like vivik ramaswamy and elon musk, who worked in this country on an h-1b visa, they say that an american emphasis on their words, mediocrity over excellence, has created a need for additional high skilled labor. you can only get it from other countries and you need these visas. so, musk called some trump

supporters, quote, contemptible fools, and a quote over the matter. things got so heated that trump himself had to mediate. he weighed in the new york post, saying he, quote, has always liked these visas. whether it settles the issue or not or whether this is even the visa he thinks it is, it is unclear, but it is a sign of what is to come. they point on the new york times this quote. this is not a discrete one off dispute. this is the kind of court tension you get in your party when you do as trump has done, taken a dynamic free-market capitalist party and infused it with protective backward looking reactionary philosophy. we are going to see this kind of dispute when it comes to economic regulation, trade, technology policy, labor

policy, housing policy, and so on. it is also where we start with our favorite experts and friends, like strategist and senior adviser to the lincoln project, stuart stevens and professor of history, new york university ruth, and for -- the distinguished vertical scholar and professor at winston university, eddie. let me start with the personalities. love him or loathe him, steve bannon is the guy that went to jail for president-elect donald trump. i would never bet against them. just weigh-in on the sort of brutality and the public nature of this very early, very vicious fight between steve bannon and elon musk. >> yeah, it is absolutely delicious to watch, and not so impactful for the future of the country. you could laugh at it -- bannon is a guy who has defined himself as a dog and dogs must do certain things. i think elon musk has no idea what he is getting into when he gets into a fight with steve bannon over this.

under all of this bannon -- what he thinks about this, there is a very good chance, there has been a lot of reporting that elon musk was not a's dude and when he got a visa and when he got his -- when we went through the process of becoming a naturalized citizen, he put false information on the document. if that is true, that is grounds for revoking the citizenship. it happens all the time. under trump, that would need to boarding him and his children you could make a case they wonder why he is so it -- obsessed with immigration -- because he knows this. i think in the heart and soul of makkah out there, i am with you. i would not bet against steve bannon. >> i want to deal with the substance and i promise to do that, but because were trump it is never about the substance, i want to say with the leading men in trump's life with you, the idea that elon musk is the

alpha only exists in a world where trump can be bought and what is so amazing to me is that trump has always been transactional for trump, but we have never seen the public display of someone else getting to grips off trump's president elon musk feels like the beta for that. the real test case. how do you think that is going to go?? what elon musk has discovered. mark i, which would at agency discovered about press mac. if you pet him, he will follow you home. he needs approval from people like elon musk elon musk is what he pretends to be. elon musk is the wealthiest person in the world. this is what president-elect donald trump would like to be, so getting approval from that person, that means a lot to press . it goes back to, you

know, he is the guy from queens. he is the guy from queens and he is out from bail. befores, he wants approval from the richest man in the world. steve bannon, you know, he has had these fights with steve bannon before and called him a slob, which he is. he is a weird guy. bannon has proven to be very, very loyal, and i do not think at the end of the day, that musk is going to be that loyal to trump. he cares about hison business and he has a lot of other interesting things besides being close to president-elect donald trump. >> i do promise there is substance. we spent a lot of time about immigration policy. it promises to be one of the essential policy divides, but there are so many layers to this fight and i thought about all of our conversations about american atomic receipt and the oligarchy, and steve bannon is almost -- it feels like a piece in the abandoned grenade that he threw at musk's face, that

is anti-oligarchy. he wants to poll a bag too, i think, what he calls its roots. what do you see with this? >> first of all, i think many autocrats follow something called divide and rule. if you break out among the top people, they use them to their benefit so that, you know, the underlings fight it out and they remain supreme, so trump could be excited about one side or the other, but am sure part of him likes this. the other thing is, yes, we can study these schisms and these devise for what they expose, what they reveal about the contradictions of this coming administration and their hypocrisy. when mike collins, a maga

stalwart, said if we have deficiencies in our skilled tech sector, we should not solve it through immigration. we should solve it through education, but we know that they are going to be decimating the department of education. they are not interested, whether they are maga or musk, they are not interested in improving the in betterment of the american worker through education. they are interested in doing policies like privatization, that we know, from history, are horrible for the average person and the person who created jobs to lift up the american worker was president joe biden and vice president kamala harris, so we can study these wars going on for what they reveal about the hypocrisy of the administration that is about to

take hold. >> i mean, i think that the study of the, right? if you want to go to the country in four years with a political movement that defeats transit to come you have to understand it. to me, this is a story, as steward said, the personalities in conflict, you cannot look away, right? however, the idea that one figure, and i think it is bannon in this case, is trying to preserve something that, to him, as a maga enforcer, is -- they say it is precious, the anti-immigration view has your against these visas being offered. it is in direct conflict with president-elect donald trump score promise, which is a robust economy. what must represents is american businesses feel like they cannot prosper and thrive without access to these visas. again, the study of maga, to be

able to defeat it, is understanding where the weak links are. this will clearly be one of them. >> this is a really important point, but it requires truth telling about the republican party in its modern iteration. there has always been these three elements, these three things like libertarian and nativist. >> let me write this down. >> this is a really important point in the sense that you always have these three components. ronald reagan was able to

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first of all, i come and i know the h-1b very well, and it

is something that i frankly use and i -- we should not have it. very, very bad for workers. second of all, i think it is very important to say, well, i'm a businessman and i have to do what i have to do. it is very bad. it is very bad for business in terms of -- it is very bad for our map workers and it is unfair for our bunkers -- workers. >> eddie, all i can see is sarah cooper when he is talking about the h-1b. let me redo the tweety put out this weekend in the middle of the bannon-must smack down. i have many h-1b visas on my properties. i have been a believer in h-1b. i have used it many times. it is a great program. restricted access to worker visas. so, multiple choice. he has no flipping idea what he is talking about, he wants to be on every side of it, musk got to him? >> all of the above.

what is interesting is here we see this is not about -- you think there are engineers working at mar-a-lago thee >> trump does -- >> it that way. we know that h-1b visas have been used in order to get cheap labor. right? we understand the way trump has asked voided it as a businessman, the way corporate america has exploited it. that is what is really driving the populist outcry, alongside his deep-seated positions. so, trump is transactional. he understood has. he has been thrown the immigration bone all this time. this is -- he is in the crosshairs. it will be interesting to see how he navigates is because there is no easy resolution. he was invested in exploiting it, but also his political cash flow. >> right. stuart stevens, elon musk, lest anyone thinks he is enlightened

on immigration, let me redo this from the washington post. germany accuses musk of trying to influence elections by backing far-right -- they accused elon musk of trying to influence the country's upcoming election set for february after he wrote an opinion piece for german newspapers over the weekend, doubling down on his support for the fall right alternative for germany party, the aft. he has soared in popularity since its founding because of their anti-migration and anti- establishment stance, and the party has been designated by germany's domestic intelligence service as a, quote, suspected extremist organization. there branches in the 16 states are classified as, quote, confirmed right wing extremist branches, end quote. >> something very odd is happening in american politics. there is a little group of white south african men that have assumed extraordinary power in america and i do not think it is an exaggeration to say the white south african

area they come from is consistent with what it is with the provost in america. you have musk and pewter deal. this is just weird. the reason they have power is because they have money and the only reason they have this vast wealth is because the american system. they seem set to change the american system. it is very odd. but they thrive in america and the party has fallen in love with this viktor orban. all of these movements out there that are at their core based on race and they are based upon sums sense of threatened national identity, by people who were born in another country. that is more understandable in europe than it is here in america. because the whole idea of what ronald reagan said in his last speech as president, that

anyone could come to america and the american. that is what is completely being challenged. this group of south africans and president-elect donald trump are challenging that. >> let's weigh in on this from your incredible perspective in the study of how countries sort of careened toward autocracies. >> well, the geopolitical design is of both musk and trump, it is pretty clear. it is to align america with far- right and autocratic nations. now, the transactional comes in, where it is not about left and right because elon musk is very dependent on chinese largess. many of his cars are made in china, but in europe, he is going all out. he has been very close to the neofascist prime minister of italy, for years now -- so,

backing this extremist party in germany, which has many neo-not in it, self identified neo- nazis is a bold move. it is consistent with this design of supporting far-right governance, race this, white christians, you know, paranoia for those who are not white christians to save civilization. the same discourse as stephen miller, you know? he gives us that every day in the united states, so there is a lot of similarities there and this kind of revolution of reaction, which is how mussolini defined fascism in the 1920s, that is a core, you know, a court name of my book, strongmen. all of these movements that musk is condoning and

supporting and using his mad money and his social media influence to prop up are part of this revolution of reaction against multifaith and multiracial societies and we are seeing that, of course, unfold here. >> it is remarkable we are having this conversation, eddie. in the election that was had, misinformation was known. i do not know we had a national conversation about all of this. at least not one that connected in a way that voters responded to, but i guess i am old enough and maybe naove enough to think that this is not what the american people will bond or maybe this is not something that will wear well. >> i am not sure. >> we will see. >> the thing is i hear stories. saying this does not quite fit, but it actually does. it says things about our history.

there is a sense in which these divisions, these racial divisions, this idea of whiteness, has always haunted the country since its founding go to the first immigration act of 1797 we have to go through our immigration his three and we will see this ideology of whiteness over determining the way which we think about democracy. when we think about the history of the country, this goes back to the himalaya street. tell the truth about who we are and then we can understand why the soil is actually so rich for elon musk and his ideas to take hold. >> they do not want the truth. >> we do not. in some sectors, some segments of our society, we actually believe what he's is we know tucker carlson -- we know there has been an element of the white premises movement that is global and that has a part of american politics since the election of obama in 2008 and before we have a clear idea, if we understand who we are as a

country, if we understand our history, that this fit. it is not imported. it is us. >> it is outsourced, right? we are going to south africa to get it. >> absolutely. when you combine it because i love the way you talked about the crisis of confidence. in the first hour. you combine it with that spiritual malaise that he was talking about. he says human identity is no longer associated with what one does, but what one owns. he is worried about the erosion of a moral sense because we are so caught up in materialism. you combine selfishness and greed with hatred -- >> and you put it on social media. >> and here we are. >> oh, my god to be continued. we can make this a monday thing because we did not even get to how we fix it. i am sure you all will have the answers. thank you so much for this conversation. to be continued. after the break, a loss for press as a federal appeals

court. a $5 million verdict in the defamation case after trump threatens to go after her on social media. we will renew that story next a ♪♪ did you take your vitamin today? that's my job. ♪♪ nature made. with quality ingredients. (glasses clink) made to care for you, every day. ♪♪ from nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. love you. have a good day. behave yourself. like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. she works a lot, a whole lot. we don't get to eat in the early morning. we just wait till we get to the school. so...yeah.

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if you worry that pressis too busy mediating between musk and van etten to deal with richard ocean, you are wrong. he is far from done with this retribution tour, fresh off his

15th -- he took aim at e. jean carroll by saying she could be jailed for allegedly lying, although that is not what juries found. e. jean carroll has won not one, but two, defamation lawsuit against president-elect donald trump. they are the success stories in efforts to hold president-elect donald trump to account and now just today, an appeals court has upheld e. jean carroll's $5 million judgment against him. the letter was awarded that some last year after a jury found pressliable for sexually abusing and defending her. joining our conversation, the department of justice, msnbc analyst andrew weissmann's ear. your thoughts about where trump is talking in in this retribution, with alluding to jail time for them.

>> this is an interesting day. i think clearly what the former president and president-elect is doing is another shot across to send a message to those people who might sue him for wrongs. e. jean carroll was the victim here, as found by nicole -- by two juries that awarded her a sum of over 85 million dollars they found that she was sexually is halted so, the claims against her by president- elect donald trump are unsupported by any facts and are contrary to the jury verdicts and just legally, by the way, president-elect donald trump cannot relitigate that. he had an opportunity not once, but twice he could have testified and did not.

so, you know, this is a lot of fear mongering, but it is effect to fear mongering as we have seen in a variety of different contexts i also think it is something to keep an eye on in terms of the courts. today's decision is frankly quite a routine decision. there was not much of a legal issue. the court issued an unusually long opinion, wanting to make sure this case was bulletproof in terms of an appeal. it was issued per curiam, that one judge wrote it. that is the affect of trump, so that no one judge was bearing the brunt of any repercussions. ana remains to be seen just whether the judicial system is going to hold up. today is a good sign.. as you have been talking about, it remains to be seen whether it is going to last for four

more years. >> andrew, let me show you's something that roberta caplan's said about the most central trait of president-elect donald trump in these situations, hislying. >> he is actually a very good defamation defendant. if you're planning to sue for defamation because he lies all the time. it is a matter of habit, about big things and all things. in this case, we were able to show those lies not only about it being fake news and a hoax and a made up story, but even when i showed him that famous photo, where he mistook -- what he realize with a mistake him he said the photo was blurry the photo was not blurry, but flustered press. >> it feels like we are going to quickly get to a place where we are having to come on the air and band what is true and

what i think is so interesting there about what roberta caplan's says is not necessarily the part about presslying as a matter of habit we know that. it is that he will lie about in front of his face. his at the picture was blurry and it was not. all you have to do is publish the photo. i think what we find out over the next four years is that people still leave their eyes and ears. >> i think it is really going to be a question of how much we are willing to and our leaders and our judges are willing to say the emperor has no clothes. to this decision today, it is almost 80 pages of this is a frivolous appeal and was wrong in every way. normally, it would not be 80 pages. it would be quite short and would have an issue a lot

sooner, and so the issue is how much judges, tower political leaders, how much the media, how much companies, all the people who are having the ability to speak out are going to be willing to pay white is white and black is lacking there is such a thing as gravity and science and polio is a disease that can be cured and go on and on. just how much are we willing to do that is something, i think, will be under severe challenge and it is remarkable that we are having this conversation that we live through an collection that makes it messes their >> let me end on this. we have also are looking at the shields, right? still believe in the rule of law and that feels scary trump

one, maybe the smaller bite- sized pieces that is to say, i still believe people trust their eyes and ears. i wonder as i see these reports about justice department lawyers looking for protection and the exits, you think that trump has and so successful in selling the in his false reality, the view, that people are afraid to sort of stand in their positions and hold the line and defend the truth? >> you know, i may have told you this story before, but i asked this question several years ago of my parents about the mccarthy era, the jesse mccarthy area this was comparing it to the situation we are in now, and one of their comments was that hangrough the era, where there was this witch hunt for, you know, reds and communist and an allegedly

infiltrated government and black list was that there was an and i miss amount of fear and no one was speaking out. there was no sense of the fact that there was a healthy group of americans who found this completely antithetical to whom we are as a people. that is something that does differentiate the situation that we are in now. the issue, for me, is whether we are going to continue to have that differentiation, where we are going to have who are willing to stand up and be counted because the things that you have and talking about in this show, today and many, many other days, is the fact that it takes enormous phone and president-elect donald trump knows that, that is not the intent, the affect of what he

is doing is to quiet people so that they do feel what happened during the joseph mccarthy era, which is they did not feel like he got. >> i think as long as falls we must come to an end, we will be okay. thank you so much. when we come back, are you feeling anxious as the year comes to an end in which president-elect donald trump will be inaugurated as president again is upon us? if the answer is yes, you are not alone. how to combat in the unease and fears you have about the new year and the new administration is our next conversation. do not go anywhere. not go any and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪)

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♪ ( i. zer. vay.) ♪ ♪ (gets ga goin' slower.) ♪ so shift gears and get going. don't delay. ask your doctor about izervay. just before the new year officially starts in exactly 3 weeks before president-elect donald trump returns to the white house, many of us are looking for strategies to makes sense of the political divisions and differences in our country and our neighborhood and our families, divisions that feels as fraught and destructive as at any point in our country x history. to help us think about it in ways that are honest but maybe not though anxiety inducing is our friend, dan harris, the founder of 10% have your forecast -- happier podcast.

i love your wisdom and your survival skills for the holidays. it is nice to see you, my friend. >> nice to be here. thank you very much. have you really -- happy new year to you. >> ef-3 meditation apps and i do not ever do any of them. how do you make yourself do the thing that makes you feel less of the thing you hate, which is your anxiety? is rooted in politics or anything else? >> how do you get yourself to do this is a question. i think one great way to motivate yourself is to do a lot of suffering. if you are walking around miserable a lot, that can provide a very powerful and do something about it. however, if you have all these meditation apps on your phone and you do not find yours of actually meditating, i would not argue that meditation is the only route to entity and anxiety reduction. i one great way to reduce your anxiety is take action. that is an expression that is common among the meditation teachers i know, that action

absorbs anxiety. if you are doing something useful, whether it has to do with politics, if your anxiety as a result of politics, maybe you can get involved in local politics, but do not want to do that, you can volunteer at a soup kitchen and you can volunteer at an animal shelter. even being more useful to the people in your life. in that way, this generosity can reduce your anxiety in fact, just one last thing to say. before the buddha taught medication to many, he taught the generosity >> i mean, what is the social media prescription? i consumed your great content because i am on social media, but most of what i can do does not fill me up the way your post do. what is the guys line? some of it is good, but others are bad. >> unfortunately, there is no simple prescription here. the simplest prescription is

probably off of the table for many of us, which would be to never go on social media however, i go on social media and you do. you're all modern people living in this world and want to be engaged with what is happening in the culture. at that point, it is about listening to your health. this is where meditation can come in very help full because it boosts your self-awareness and you might notice i am on our eight of schooling on twitter and i am starting to type in all caps maybe i should put the phone down. >> i want -- you sat in this chair for a long time. i want to ask you your thoughts about this moment. we will be right back after a quick break k

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what advice do have for people like us who deliver the news and have to tell the truth, but do not want to nessus really increase anyone's anxiety? >> my advice to you guys and to everyone watching is never worry alone. i love this phrase. do not go through this period of time, this tumultuous period of time as a solo endeavor. call your mother, call your friends, talk to people. make it a team sport. there's a ton of evidence this is the way we will get through this >> you are my dan harris said so. >> the last paragraph -- i said in 2025, let's make art that helps us make the new world

let's write books that on all this sediment. let's make music that stirs the soul ballistic with compositions that are -- lettuce be more concerned about being teased and and loving than being right and seeing as virtuous lettuce told the truth and a bit more. >> i love that. i love you both can we do this more often? >> i will come back if he does >> it is a deal. thank you so much that we have been trying to do this for so long. thank you for being here. i love that. another break for us. we will be right back. right b. research hospital save lives. speaker 2: these kids, they've done nothing wrong in the world, and they end up having to go through all of this to survive. speaker 3: is your throat sore? speaker 2: your donation, it means everything. speaker 1: please don't wait until the last minute. make a difference by supporting the children of st. jude. please, donate now.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are so grateful. our coverage continues. in the meantime we want to take this opportunity to wish all of you a very, very happy new year! welcome to a