hi there, everyone. it is 4:00 in new york. we are happy you are year. there's a lot to get to including the political civil war threatening to tear apart trump script on the republican party, one that pits elon musk against steve bannon and it is

underway even before donald trump is inaugurated. there's also news about a stinging defeat for donald trump in his ongoing legal battles but we begin with a celebration, a celebration of a life well lived. we are talking, of course, about former president jimmy carter, who passed away at his family home in plains, georgia. jimmy carter's life was a quintessential american dream. a peanut farmer who ascended to the white house. the nuclear engineer who brought a plainspoken folksiness to our national politics. a man guided by his faith and decency that after a brutal defeat to ronald reagan in the 1980 presidential contest, he forged a post-presidency that redefined what service to one's nation and your fellow man could look like. president carter will be brought to atlanta, ga by motorcade, where he will lie in

repose at the carter center. on monday january 6th, you will be flown to washington, d.c., where he will lie in state at the u.s. capitol and we are thousands of mourners are expected to pay their respects to him. the state funeral at washington national cathedral will be held on january 9th, we are former president carter will be eulogized by, among others, his longtime friend, president joe biden. president carter will then be flown back to georgia, where he will be buried next to former first lady rosalyn carter, his wife of 77 years in a family plot next to a willow tree at the edge of the pond in the small town of plains, georgia, where they both grew up and spent most of their lives. it is worth noting that in accordance with federal law, president biden has ordered flags lowered to half staff in the next 30 days, meaning they will still be lowered on january 20th, when trump is inaugurated. in the long arc of history, jimmy carter is many things. of course, the 39th president

of these united states, the nation's longest lived president, one of only four u.s. president's to be awarded the nobel peace prize, a president who accomplished in one term more than many president's accomplish in two. a man of service who dedicated himself to eradicating disease worldwide and to building houses here at home with habitat for humanity. he was a man of deep faith who taught sunday school for decades, including while he served in the white house as president, and a man whose love for his wife is legendary. there 77 years of marriage is the longest of any presidential couple in history. he will also be remembered in history as a president who, during his time in office, approached the challenges facing this great nation with a credit wisdom, challenges that are all too familiar right now in 2024. >> the struggle for human rights overwrites all differences of or nation or language. those who hunger for freedom,

whose thirst for human dignity, and who suffer for the sake of justice, they are the patriots of this cause. i believe with all my heart that america must always stand for these basic human rights at home and abroad. that is both our history and our destiny. american did not invent human rights. in a very real sense, it is the other way around. human rights invented america. in which was the first nation in the history of the world to be founded explicitly on such canadian. our social and political progress has been based on one fundamental principle, the value and importance of them individual. the fundamental force that unites us is not kinship or place of origin or religious preference, the love of liberty

is a common blood that flows in our american veins. >> taken as a whole, his life is a portrait of a man who represents the very best of this nation has to offer. a legacy as a public servant and as a humanitarian who is a beacon of decency, something his longtime friend, president joe biden, and knows firsthand. >> america and the world, in my view, lost a remarkable leader. he was a statesman and humanitarian. jill and i lost a dear friend. i have been hanging out with jimmy carter for over 50 years. jimmy carter stands up as a model of what it means to live a life of meaning and purpose a life of principle, faith, and humility and a life dedicated to others. decency. decency. everybody deserves a shot. everybody. one of the reasons why we are

looked to by the rest of the world, we have laid out what our values are. we have said what we believe. it is not just in the declaration, we hold these truths to be self-evident, there is a feeling the rest of the world looks to us. it looks to us. he was worth looking into. >> he was worth looking into. in the immortal words of the reverend martin luther king jr., "only when it is dark enough can you see the stars." in this moment in our nations history, jimmy carter's life and legacy shine especially bright. that is where we start today, with my friend, our longtime nbc news colleague, former carter white house intern our dear friend brian williams is here. thank you so much for taking a break from all the things that

occupy door post msnbc life to talk to us on this occasion. >> hello, my friend. i miss you and thank you for thinking of me and thank you for having me on. i will take your cue and your brilliant opening segment today and call this a celebration of a life well lived. >> what does he mean today? with all of the turns toward the darkness, that if you go back and look at some of his speeches, he tried so hard to level with the american people and he wasn't always appreciated for doing so. does his wife mean to you today? >> well, a life of decency, of profound intellect. and, i hope he's intellect is not a quality that gets lost in the coverage that will come in the next several days. an author of 30 books. he just had this fiery, fiery

brain. studied nuclear physics, let's not forget, and let's not forget as well in porter's case, he was a decent man who defeated a decent man, gerald ford, who simply could not get the film of watergate and that era off of him. this new young crowd from georgia, of all places, emerged on the national stage. i think another thing i can seeing creep into the coverage is that he was our best ex- president. i have to credit jonathan alter, a bona fide carter scholar and pornographer, who appeared on this network yesterday in the minutes following word of president carter's desk, who said that that appalachian, the best former president carter found hurtful. he had no personal vanity but he was vain about his reputation, his accomplice went, his presidency. he was proud of the fact that

he put solar panels on the roof of the white house before such a thing was even discussed in the public domain. i think, yes, he had the best former presidency in the history of the men who have led our nation. to your point, the accomplishments of his presidency, his personal crowning achievement, the camp david accords, would not have happened had there not been a man named jimmy carter on earth. that was a calling, let's not forget, his own sense of religion called him to. he thought peace in the middle east, as a christian american man, president of the united states, was his duty. >> his face was something he wore so comfortably, which you don't always see in politics in either party. that also makes him feel different, different from any figures on the stage these days. >> i will throw the following

and grenade into this remembrance and say the presidency of jimmy carter, his emergence as a national political figure was the first event that exposed the political support of american evangelicals as something more transactional than i think any of us wanted to believe or admit. there will never be a wart evangelical evangelical than jimmy carter. a born again christian. taught bible study until his body failed him and he was forced to stop appearing with his small congregation in plains on sundays. the evangelical community, instead, what with a divorced hollywood actor. the rest, as we know, is history. the second hand grenade is that his piety, combined with his

hairshirt level of thrift, his flint, the fact that he was wearing clothing in his last years on earth that had hung in the white house 45 years ago, the fact that he and misses carter kept an igloo cooler on the back porch of the modest plains, georgia house as an overflow during the holidays if their refrigerator got two full. he had no interest in physical effects. he had no interest in the trappings of the job, something he later admitted was a mistake on his part. he de-glorified the presidency to such a degree that combined with his lack of political washington acumen, with his kind of lack of personal stature, when jimmy carter walked into the room, because he was shorter than most in

height, it was possible to be at a white house reception and not know yet that he was there. part of that is his fault. he ordered them to stop playing hail to the chief when the president entered the room. he wanted to get us away from the nixon era imperial presidency, where nixon had outfitted the guards outside the west wing in ridiculous, though blissfully short-lived, outfits and the like. jimmy carter wanted to be who he was, which was something very different entirely. >> brian williams, we miss you so much. flint and hand grenades have never hung together so poetically in my life. it is all telling a story of humility that is unrecognizable in today's politics. why do you think that is? >> our times, our eras have

changed. the social media has changed our society in ways that we don't, we are living in a time of great historians. they are not get caught up on the change we are living every day, from facebook to twitter to instagram to truth social, on and on and on. it has forced upon us and era of celebrity, where ordinary folks walking the earth every day now have followers of their own. this is an intense and profound dynamic. it allows people, after a lifetime of celebrities being the people we would watch on television and in movies, massive public figures, we have entered the era where, you knew

you can also be a thing in your own realm. that has changed everything. our politics have taken a rancid put us in turn. media is now available in all bite-size forms. you can wake up in america and watch only the network you agree with. that limits the scope of what you are going to get. let's not forget how much of u.s. history this man was a life for. we are only 248 years old. we are talking about the death of a 100-year-old former president of the first president born in a hospital. put it this way, jimmy carter's father was born only 31 years after the death of abraham lincoln. we are about to ring in 2025. things with it a particularly ensure future. we are all in this together, just as we were watching this young georgian take office and

figuring out who our new president was back in 1976. >> how did you come to intern in the carter white house? >> it wasn't through my formidable college education. i had none, still don't, and i ran into a guy in washington, d.c., who was my age. he was a college student at a catholic university and he had to vacate his white house internship to attend to some family matters in st. louis. i interviewed for it. so supremely unqualified was i. i had a west wing all access pass. i had no business in that position. i did the work and enjoyed it. i don't exactly one blue blazer, which i purchased with my sears employee discount in middletown, new jersey. i wore it every day for a year. no one seemed to notice because it is the coin of the realm,

the wrapping of all men in washington, d.c. it was fascinating. i had several encounters with president carter. usually either my hands or knees were shaking. i had the experience of hearing some clear their support behind me while doing xerox copies in the west wing, it happened to be vice president walter mondale. just a crazy chapter in my life. carter, of course, in the years that followed, was the most surprised that my life had resulted in any success and got an enormous kick out of all the times we encountered each other journalist and former president here and around the world. and, he was always quite lovely. >> the way you describe him, i imagine he was a president who was, in some cases more around his, more at ease around his

own intern something on the heads of state and dignitaries that came in. can you tell us about your encounters with the president as an intern? >> if he had a slogan to put on the door of the oval office, and it is no knock on him, it is just the way he was wired, it would be be bright, be brief, be gone. look up from his desk, he stopped the conversation he was in to find out what fresh hell was awaiting him in the next interruption and promptly go back to work. i think too little is made of one biographical point about jimmy carter and that is in addition to being the only president to have graduated from annapolis, he was a submariner. he passed with flying colors the aptitude test required to be a submariner. it calls for an introvert. it calls for someone supremely

self-motivated but also good at close teamwork. it calls for someone who thrives on the company of himself and a good book after his ship on a nuclear submarine. he was an officer on the uss los angeles and one of his great career honors was having the uss jimmy carter named for him. of all things, it is a unique, one off, standalone submarine in our fleet with a special section at midship's to conduct all kinds of unsavory, to our enemies at least, special operations around the world. he was inordinately proud of that vessel and lived long enough, of course, to see it launched. he just, i think nervousness was the chief quality of especially us rookies who came

in to his presence and company. he could also be warm and charming. his secretary outside the oval office ones the ultimate gatekeeper and you could easily tell from susan, was he in president, was he around ? how was today's mood? how frantic or easy-going ones that day in the white house? >> brian williams, we miss you every day on the big sites and everyday news stories that were used to cover together. such a treat to get to talk to you today. don't be a stranger to us. >> longtime viewer, first time caller. i'm doing my part. thanks, pal. >> we miss you, friend. we will have much more over the course of the hour on the life and legacy of president jimmy carter. from his lifesaving contributions to global health all around the world to his nearly 8 decades long love

affair to former first lady rosalind hart carter. president carter's reputation for candor and truthfulness and the remarkable speech he gave 45 years ago that resonates more than ever today. we will play some of it for you. later, we will take a closer look at the civil war currently engulfing donald trump's allies and how just three weeks before trump takes office, they are engaged in an ugly public brawl over just how extreme the topic of immigration should really be. we will have those stories and more when deadline the white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there and more time being there.

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delta air lines weighed in today with this tweet, "every time jimmy carter flew delta, he shook hands with each person on the plane because that's who he was, someone who treated people as people." let's bring in our panel to help digest why that is so ordinary these days. chief white house correspondent for "the new york times", peter baker. also joining us, the president of the national action network, the reverend al sharpton. with me at the table, democratic strategist and professor at columbia university, msnbc political analyst, basel, your thoughts. >> it wasn't just a biographical point for him, he led with religion through his career. he credits his, the time he grew up not in plains, georgia but in archery, georgia. he would say around african-

american families, he played with them, you went to church with them, he went to school with them and he talked about how the african-american bishop, reverend william johnson actually had a profound impact on shaping his life. as he is campaigning for governor and recognizing you got george wallace in alabama, sort of leaning into segregation and he is determining i need to move away from this, he leads as well with his face, he also becomes president at a time, it was an incredible statistic, the gallup poll says a third of america at that time considered themselves born-again. a third of america. he is becoming president at a time after decades where the evangelicals were not as engaged in politics but were becoming engaged. he entered it with a sort of pious optimism, and of vietnam and such.

and, develop to these incredible relationships with people like vernon jordan and others to usher in a civil rights agenda. it is extra ordinary when you think about it. as he was in his speech earlier at the top of the show, you can see how that faith helps him use a language of transcendence. whatever our anger, whatever you have today, i'm going to find a way to get you through that. that was because of the deep faith he had. >> it also undergirds, reverend, all of his views about who we were and this humidity, this profound humility that america didn't create human rights but human rights created america is just so powerful. >> it is very, very powerful. and we must remember the context of which the emergence of jimmy carter to begin president happened. in 1972, the election of for the 76 election that he ran and won, the country had to choose

between richard nixon and george mcgovern. the democratic party had gone to what was then considered the left. i remember i was 17 years old, i was registered working with shirley chisholm's campaign during the primaries. george mcgovern once soundly defeated by richard nixon. then watergate happens and we didn't get out of the vietnam war. we were in the middle of a political and moral crisis and national crisis. when come out from the south, deep south, this unknown governor from georgia named jimmy carter, who had all of the stability, had all of the bearings of someone that was calm and deliberate and was talking about he believed in faith, he literally calmed down a nation and i think that is why he beat gerald ford, because

the republican party was in disarray because of watergate and vietnam. the democratic party did not want to go where they considered too liberal. he became the alternative and he embraced it. the whole question of him and civil rights, not only did he have a great relationship with vern vernon jordan, who headed the national urban league, he appointed one of the senior members of martin luther king's staff, and william, when dr. king had been killed less than 10 years before the 76 race, he appointed him to you and ambassador for the united states, which was unbelievable and very controversial. he made andy young the u.n. ambassador. his education had at that time,,, per funded reverend jesse jackson's education initiatives. here is a guy from the deep

south in dealing with civil rights, calling for human rights. he was a very close to karen scott king, martin the third. he was as different as you could be at the time we needed a difference. lastly, when you talk about his faith, every time i spoke with him, he would always say reverend, i see you out there with your civil rights leadership. don't forget your preaching now. i said oh no, i preach every sunday. i can't run a national organization and run a church but i have somewhere every sunday. he meant this stuff. this is years after he was president, he lived and abided by what he talked. you just kind of knew it. there was a presence about him you felt the authenticity of this man. >> peter baker, you share a byline on the obituary in "the new york times". your thoughts, fill in some blanks that haven't been

mentioned by any of the guests get. >> there is so much to say about jimmy carter. for a one term president, he left a pretty big mark. both successes and failures, obviously. there's so much to discuss. what is remarkable is he had four years in the white house and during those four years, as jonathan alter and others have written in remarkable books the last few years, he accomplished more than a lot of people remember. he created the department of education, created the department of energy. he put solar panels on the roof of the white house because he saw the future of energy and climate being important. he secured the treaties that turned the panama canal back over to panama, which has become an issue again with donald trump. he signed an arms-control treaty with the soviets and recognized officially diplomatically china for the first time, granted amnesty to vietnam draft dodgers and, the most important diplomatic achievement of our lifetime probably the camp david peace

accords. big failures as well, the iran hostage basis debilitated him. inflation, a big drag on his chances for reelection. the economy was doing badly by the time he faced up against ronald reagan and that malaise speech, the sense that there was a crisis of confidence gave him a dour personage on the world stage when americans prefer their leaders to be optimistic and project hope and energy. that was his time in office. what we've talked about since is remarkable. humanitarian work around the world, fighting disease, making peace. he sent out in 1986 as a former president to combat a disease called guinea worm in africa. in 1986, there were 3.5 million cases. this year, up until november, there are 7 recorded cases of guinea worm.

over the course of his post- presidency, a remarkable change. >> it is a remarkable model. you look at the post-presidency as the people who came after, it is clear that he broke those barriers. i want to be sensitive to brian williams note. they didn't like only being celebrated for his post-presidency but he was clearly a role model for president's of both parties. >> he was. hearing that, i thought about the days when i traveled with the clinton foundation and the hiv-aids initiative to countries to talk about how to bring drug prices down and get those trunks to people with aids and hiv and you realized that it is carter that really did drive that model for what the former leader of the free world would do in the current world. >> that is the model for the clinton post-presidency and the bush. did a baker and the reverend al sharpton, it is a privilege to have you on this topic on this day, thank you for starting us

off. still ahead, peter mentioned it. we are going to talk to president carter's most memorable speech. remarkable at the time and as relevant as ever right now today. stay with us. stay with us. have you always had trouble with your weight? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only weight-management medicine proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events such as death, heart attack, or stroke in adults with known heart disease and obesity. don't use wegovy® with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines, or in children under 12. don't take if you or your family had mtc, men 2, or if allergic to it. tell your provider if you plan to have surgery or a procedure, are breastfeeding, pregnant, or plan to be.

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today, as we look back on the life and legacy of the 39th

president of these united states, jimmy carter, we reflect on something that has already been mentioned, and address he gave to the country, to the nation in july of 1979. it is known as he is malaise speech, even though as peter baker said, he never used that word. in this address, president carter made an appeal to all americans, to every one of us, to look deeper into our souls as american citizens. it was remarkable, at the time, but also sounds like something that applies all too well to right now, to this political climate today. >> i want to talk to you right now about a fundamental threat to american democracy. the threat is nearly invisible in ordinary ways. it is a crisis of confidence. it is a crisis that strikes at the very heart and soul and spirit of our national will. we can see this crisis in the growing doubt about the meaning of our own lives and in the loss of a unity of purpose for

our nation. the erosion of our confidence in the future is threatening to destroy the social and the political fabric of america. there is a growing disrespect for government, and for churches, and for schools, the news media, and other institutions. this is not a message of happiness or reassurance. but, it is the truth and it is a warning, little by little, we can and we must rebuild our confidence. we can spend until we empty our treasuries and we may summon all the wonders of science but we can succeed only if we tell our greatest resources, america's people, america's values, and america's

confidence. >> joining our conversation, former republican strategist, political commentator, the founder of "the warning" newsletter and podcast, my friend steve schmidt is here. if like this for me this morning. i went back and read the transcript and polled some chunks of it. talk about what you wrote about today, how this resonates with you right now. >> this is a profoundly important speech. it is good to be with you, nicole. henry kissinger, when he was opening up china, he was having dinner and had a conversation about the french revolution. henry kissinger asked a question and the point was made that it was too soon to tell how the french revolution turned out, by deng xiaoping. you should look at this jimmy carter speech. this speech, along with one that

traded one mate has a claim to be the most important speech given in the most last 50 years in english on american soil. this was a speech of deep, deep profound meaning that was a political millstone. the american people did not want to have a deep conversation. they did not want to do the introspection, and what the american people chose is the mythology. part of the speech, as carter is getting ready to give it, he is advised to talk about john winthrop, the pilgrims, the shining city on the hill. shining city on a hill, of course, john kennedy alludes to in his famous speech in 1961. this becomes the mainstay of ronald reagan's campaign, the idea that jimmy carter rejects

as frivolous for the moment, as not appropriate to the truth telling becomes the cudgel with which his opponent beats him. when you go back today, from 2024, a quarter way into the 21st century, the remarkable search speech to read from a man who was born in a country that had 115 million people in 1924. when he once president, we were 218 million people. we are a much bigger country today, 340 million of us. what this speech is about is connection and faith. faith in the country. it is a remarkable address and i hope your audience will take time to listen to it and read it. it is a great address. >> since you flagged it for me this morning, i went back and looked at president obama's

convention speech and to even hear some echoes in president obama nodding to the isolation, it is almost an update. president carter talks about the gap between our citizens and our government has never been so worried. president obama and the democratic convention talks about the isolation people feel, not just from our government but from one another. there is sort of the soft science of our politics, to use your word. trump cultural and has made a lot of people feel like they are gone forever. talk about why they don't, don't work in the context of presidential contests. for quarter or for paris in this year's contest. >> timing is an underappreciated quality in politics. sometimes people don't want to hear what they don't want to hear until it becomes necessary to know the information. the life of jimmy carter lasted

100 years. it is a very long time. his presidency was in the middle of his life. over the span of it, he accomplished remarkable things, including the eradication of the guinea worm, for example, massive amounts of suffering all over the world. when you judge jimmy carter's presidency, the one theme that you will find over and over again is reconciliation. one of the things we are going to learn a lot more about in the next couple of days is the pth of the friendship between jimmy carter and gerald ford. they had the closest relationship among any farmer president's, a real deep, genuine friendship and gerald ford's eulogy for his friend jimmy carter is going to be read by his son, stephen ford. it will be a real highlight. >> steve schmidt, it is great to see you, great to have your insights. thank you for joining us today. we will post the transcript and

as many of the clips as we can. when we come back, something very much in short supply since the carter era, truthfulness in our politics. we will have that conversation, next. conversation, next. your parents have given you some amazing gifts, celebrate the ones you inherited with ancestrydna. explore the detailed family roots, cultures and traits that shaped who you are today for only $39.

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struggle and i will ensure honesty. and, above all, i will act. >> that was president jimmy carter reaffirming his pledge to the american people of honesty no matter what. it is a long, long way from where the country was when he took office to today's culture of rampant lighting, with one party's leaders total dependence on ignoring the truth in a new book called "beyond the big lie the founder" the founder of political bill at their examines what he calls the epidemic of political lying, why republicans do it more, and how it could burn down our democracy. "lighting matters because it destabilizes our social fabric. lien matters because it threatens our democracy. lien matters because it endangers our health. lighting matters because it cripples our discourse.

with such an imbalance of falsehoods, our political parties and elected officials are unable to have adult conversations about the critical issues of our time. they can't agree on facts because one side denies the truth. bill adair joins us now. i don't know that there is a more legitimate claim to must read ahead of the inauguration than this. i am so glad you wrote it and i am so glad you are here. one thing that is clear since election day is that trump supporters don't believe him but trump's critics do, on the issue of weaponization of the government against political enemies, on the issue of mass deportations, on the issue of ending birthright citizenship. you hear anecdotally, and in the polls, his supporters say he won't do any of that stuff, he's going to juice the economy or get rid of inflation, which none of his policies actually do. have you ever seen that phenomenon before? >> it is troubling, nicole.

we saw it during the campaign, we are so many of his supporters would say i know he's lying but that is trump. what i like about him is he's going to blow things up. and, i think this speaks to a real erosion in the value of truth in our politics. it is really worrisome and i think this is something that jimmy carter understood. truth matters. honesty matters. jimmy carter was a guy who was so honest that, in 1980, when 60 minutes asked him to assess his own presidency, he gave himself b's and c's. who does that today? here we are today with this tremendous erosion in truth and it is really worrisome. as you alluded to, here is a real imbalance in our parties. >> what is the fix?

>> it is interesting. the fix, in many ways, you could go back to what jimmy carter said in promising not to lie. one of the fixes is to change how politicians regard the truth. part of this is that people have to come along and people have to want the truth and i'm not sure how we accomplish that. but, i think politicians would make a big step toward this if they valued truth and if they begin to value it in the same way that they value things such as low taxes. one thing that i propose in the book is a pledge, similar to what carter talked about. imagine if politicians signed a pledge saying i won't lie to you, and challenging their opponents to do the same thing, a very simple simply worded

pledge, the impact that could have. i write about this in the book and say if we were to try this, it might just have an impact. >> it sounds idealistic. i want to press you on it, i want to bring basil smikle in. i have to sneak in a quick break first. will you stick around? >> you bet. >> we will be right back. right if you're donating to st. jude, you're supporting finding a cure, because the fight never stops. narrator: every gift counts, and whatever you can give will make a difference for children like gideon. make your donation today to help st. jude save lives. our right to reproductive health care is being stolen from us. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. we need your support now more than ever. go online, call, or scan this code,

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we are back. so, basil smikle is it that

simple? >> his humanity into our humanity. you have to be that convicted to do it and to be able to stand up. and the speech was losing evangelicals because they were upset at him and he knew that and he could sense the tension. i would love for our leaders to be able to take that pledge and do the same thing as be as convicted. it seems like that is in short supply these days. >> the cause and the sentiment

for the threat to our democracy. how do you get it at the cause? that is what you alluded to, a public that does not demand character from its leaders. >> well, i think we need leadership as basil was alluding to. taking this as an important cause and this is going to be an important issue for me. this will be one of my core principles and i will not lie to you. making this a cornerstone of their plan going forward and i do not know if that necessarily hast to be the democratic party. i think people are ready for truth and ready for honesty. i do not think that necessarily -- although my book talks about it is definitely public and party that lies a lot more than the democratic party. but it does not have to be that

way. >> republicans do it more and how they can burn it down our democracy as we tiptoe. bill adair, basil smikle, thank you for joining us . still had for us, the mega movement is already engulfed in a hot war, a brutal political fight getting the two gladiators against each other. will tell you about it when "deadline: white house" begins again after a short break. shor. go-friends, gather! keke! chris! jason! boop! fries. let's go, let's go, friends! hold ontyour dice. woohoo!! -nice frosting, pratt. -thank you! how we doin', keke? tastes like money to me. i can't go back to jail! wait, did you rob my bank?

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>> so, let me repeat this, this visa program is a complete scam. to destroy the american worker, but can we just not all get together? we are not going to get together, york are going to

learn how to fight or get off the battlefield. >> for the mega movement. and it is just a matter of when. right? not if, but when and the fact that donald trump's two most prominent supporters are already engaged in an ugly, public civil war. they have even stepped foot closer to the oval office again is riveting, constructive. the least surprising thing for happened so far. but we will see when a political movement is grounded not in a set of policies or even an ideology that is recognizable. but the essential attention this afternoon is a rally issue of immigration as it often is in and republican parties.

specifically the use of the work permits. these allow companies in the united states to bring in foreign workers, and the talent is not available here for specialized roles under short- term basis that easily can be renewed. in one quarter of this political down is the guy you just saw, steve bannon. and they insist that american jobs are for american workers including these jobs and on the other mega titans such as elon musk which at one time worked in this country on an h-ib visa. they maintain that an american emphasis on mediocrity over emphasis is a need for additional high skilled labor. to get to them, from other countries and you need these visas. elon musk went to call some

trump supporters contemptible fools over this matter. things got so heated that the president elect donald trump himself had to mediate. he weighed in on the new york post that he is always liked these visas. whether it is settles the issue or not or even this is the visa he thinks it is is not clear. it is a sign of what is up to come. we point out in the "the new york times" that this is not a discrete one off dispute. this is the type of court tension you get in your party to take a dynamic free-market capitalist party and have used it with protective, reactionary philosophy. we are going to see this type of dispute when it comes to economic regulation, trade, technology policy, labor policy, housing policy. it is also where we start this hour. the former chief

republican strategist and sr. advisor to the lincoln project stevens is here. also the professor of history, ruth binger is back. and also the political scholar, from princeton university, gladney. let us start with the personality, love him or loathe him. steve bannon went to jail for donald trump. i would not go against him. can you weigh in on the brutality and the public nature of this very early and vicious fight between steve bannon and elon musk. >> yes, it is absolutely difficult to watch if it was not impactful for the future of the country. you can laugh at it. steve bannon has defined himself as a dog. and he must do difficult things. he has no idea what he is

getting into when he gets into a fight with steve bannon under this . i suspect steve bannon thinks about this. there is a good chance and a lot of reporting that elon musk was not a student when he got a visa. when he went through the process of getting an citizen, he put on false information which is grounds for evoking his citizenship. it happens all the time.

elon musk feels like a test case for that. how do you think that is going to go? >> well, what elon musk has discovered very quickly and what every foreign intelligence agency discovered about president elect donald trump. that is all he cares about, he needs desperate approval from people like elon musk. elon musk in some ways is what he pretends to be. elon musk is the wealthy is person in the world.

this is what donald trump would like to be. so getting approval from that person means a lot to donald trump. this is the guy from queens, new york and it is a true statement who is out on bail. of course he wants approval from the richest man on the world. steve bannon has already had these fights with steve bannon before, and calling him a slob. calling him a weird guy but steve bannon has proven to be very, very loyal. i do not think at the end of the day, elon musk is going to be that loyal to donald trump. he cares about his own business and he has other interests in this besides being close to donald trump. >> we have spent a lot of time on immigration policy. promises to be an essential policy divide. there are so many layers to this fight and i thought of our conversations about this. steve bannon is almost like a

piece in his grenade that he threw to the face of elon musk. it wants to pull mega back to what we view as it roots. >> so, first of all we know that many autocrats follow divided rule. if feuds break out among the top people, the use them to their benefit. the underlings fight it out and they remain supreme. trump could have decided on one or the other but i am sure part of him likes this. the other thing is yes.

we can study these divides and schisms for what they expose and what they reveal about the contradictions and hypocrisies of this coming administration. when mike collins said that if we have deficiencies in our skilled tech sector, we should dissolve it through immigration and education. we know that they are going to be decimating the department of education. they are not interested, whether they are maga or elon musk, they are not looking to improve the betterment of the american worker through education. they are interested in doing foreign policy like privatization that we know from history are horrible for the average person and the person that created jobs to lift up the american people was president joe biden and vice president kamala harris. we can study these wars going on for what they reveal about

the hypocrisy of the administration that is about to take hold. >> i think the study of maga is essential to defeat maga. if you wanted to go , you have to understand maga to defy it. to me this is a story, the personality is a conflict. you just cannot look away. the idea that one figure and it is steve bannon in this case is to maintain this, as precious and that the viewer hast to be pure against the visa being offered. it is in direct conflict with trump's economy. american businesses feel they cannot prosper and thrive without access to these visas. again, the study of maga into

defeat it is where the weakest links are and this is really going to be one of them. >> i think this is an important point and it needs some truth telling. there is always a been these two or three elements. >> let me write that down. >> that is an important point. in the sense of their always been these three components and ronald reagan was able to balance them in interesting ways. what we have is the plutocrat and elon musk, with greed and pulling and advancing his interest and right winged optimism. right-wing populism that sometimes is expressed in terms of an emphasis on the american worker. but it takes the form of zeno phobia, and hatred. we have the collision of greed and hatred right in front of

us. that is at the heart of trump as him. it is always been greedy, selfish and it is always been hatred. now it is in full view. >> what is so amazing about your articulation is like two tarantulas and a bowl. there was nobody to root for because you are watching this ugly collision. elon musk is arguing for his own bottom line and steve bannon is arguing for the ideology of the native underbelly. what we could study from the outside what it exposes about the movements. >> absolutely. we have this interesting conversion, the former secretary agreeing with steve bannon about the suspicion of these h-ib visas. they are both concerned from the american workers from the very beginning. but what is interesting about steve bannon is it carries

forward the steep ugliness about who should be at the center of our imagination and who we should care about. we do not need 5 million indians coming to the country. that is why it is right-wing populace as a coach to left- winger. part of what we have to do as you pointed out. we need to understand these issues, the cracks in the faultlines because they're going to be coming into view even more sore as the corporate pursue the interest. and everyday ordinary workers, are going to take it on the chin. >> also we reveal that ugliness and the opportunity of the republican party. there will be established republicans who latch on to elon musk because he wants what they want. does that make it benevolent? >> you know, i think the usual current of trump's him are at play here. if there was some freak of nature that swedish models were the best engineers in the world and able to come here. instead of what we are assuming to be

with nonwhites. i think that steve bannon would be all for it and so what donald trump. you know, what steve bannon has to his advantage is an emotional argument. elon musk has an emotional argument. you can carry that which is based on fear but maga is based on a zero-sum world. this idea that has been of the heart of the party and very much at the heart of the definition of america. you can expand and more brings more. there is not a finite limit of resources and that is absolutely true. if you look at the great tech companies in america, they are benefiting from immigration on multiple levels. steve jobs, so, this is

disturbing in one sense. elon musk is correct here. >> yes. >> which is painful but there is no coherent theory of government as we have said over and over. when you have no theory of government, your back to what we are saying and want person feels at one moment when he wakes up which is a difficult way to run the country. >> you hit the nail on the head that trump is reveling in all of it. i guess what i want to do is do not cover the brink of a government shutdown. the story is separate from the h-ib visas. trump is not believing in anybody so he is waiving the power in front of him. he does not really care about micah johnson or throwing down

the government. perhaps he will throw mike johnson a lifeline, nothing matters. let me show you what the brutality of the fight looks like within the maga world. this is what elon musk tweeted. the reason i am in america along with so many critical people to build space x, and tesla that made america strong is because of h-ib. take a big step back. i will go to war on this issue, the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend. i believe that steve bannon had a lot of time in his jail cell to comprehend what war on behalf of what donald trump looks like. that is the red flag that elon musk waved in front of maga figures that disagreed on this policy. again, the policy is when the

democratic and republican presidents are the same position for many, many years. it does put trumpet across pressure with his base. although on the crude of brutal nature for this very public feud. why is that an element? >> well, steve bannon could be officially more of a dog but this could be the tweet that you showed is completely rhetoric in behavior and threatening in that way. you know, at the core of this is a nihilism about maga. to put elon musk in this because when you are so transactional and so opportunistic that you do not leave in anything. as you were saying before and trumpet certainly is in this category. you have no values and everything is reduced to a nihilism. that could be the nihilism of

violence, threat, and it is very dispiriting. this, too is the way that we respond to autocracy because they get into this nihilism. we respond by a political movement that is about values, honor, decency, integrity, excellence. that is what the harris campaign to some extent was trying to communicate. i think it is very telling that they are both thugess and are definitely taking positions that are racist and in some ways they have more in common certainly they're not for democracy and not for freedom and did not for agreeing to disagree. >> nobody is going to go anywhere. including elon musk aligning himself with some real extremists in germany. then i will have more of this clash inside of the maga

before he is inaugurated. and also president elect donald trump has promised his enemies in a very public way as he threatens his jail time for the woman led him to being found liable by a jury for sexual abuse and defamation. a something we can all use during these times of political anxiety, advice on how to stay centered and grounded in a world that seems anything but. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. do not go anywhere. anywhere. jardiance — it's a little pill... ...proven to slow the progression of ckd... ...and reduce the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. serious side effects include increased ketones in blood or urine, which can be fatal. stop jardiance and call your doctor right away... ...if you have nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, trouble breathing, or increased ketones. jardiance may cause dehydration

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first of all, and i know the h-ib very well. and we should not have it, very, very bad for workers. second of all i think it is important to say that i'm a businessman and i have to do when i have to do. it is sitting there and waiting for you but it is very bad, very bad for business. in terms of workers and unfair to the workers and we should end it. >> all i can say is that when he is talking about this but let me read a tweet. i have many h-ib visas on my property. i have been a believer in h-ib and i've used it many times. it is a great program. so,

multiple choice. he has no idea of what he is talking about or he knows what he is talking about and wants to be on every side of it or elon musk got to him. >> all the above. and what is interesting is that we see you think they are engineers working at mar-a-lago? >> exactly. >> we know that there are h-ib visas have been used in order to get a cheap labor. so we understand the weight trump has exploited it as a businessman. just the way that corporate america has exploited it and that is what is driving the populace outcry. alongside of course it is overdetermined about these deep- seated dispositions. trump is transactional and he understands that he's been throwing the immigration ball all this time. this is an interesting crosshairs. it will be interesting how he navigates this because there is no easy resolution. there is one side is invested in exporting it and the other is his political. >> of course, mr. stevens,

people think that he is enlightened on immigration but let me read this. germany accuses muscat trying to influence election by backing far right h-ib. also to influence the elections after he wrote an opinion piece for german newspaper. doubling down on his support for the far right alternative for germany party. they have soared in popularity since its founding in 2013, largely because of its anti- migration in antiestablishment stance. it is been suspected extremist organization while it's regional branches in three of germany's 16 states are classified as confirmed right wing extremist. >> you know, something very odd has happened in american politics. there is a little group of white south african men that have up soon - assumed

tremendous power. it is not consistent with where it is in america. you have peter kiel, david sachs, elon musk and this is just weird . the reason they have power is because they have money. the only reason they have these vast amounts of wealth is the american system. they seem dead set to change the american system. it is very odd. but our old party in america has fallen in love with these movements. they are at the core, they are based on race and they are based upon some sense of threatening national identity that people that were born in another country. that is more understandable in europe than it is here in america. the entire idea, that ronald

reagan's said in his last speech and if anybody could come to america be in america. that is what is completely being challenged here by this group of south africans and by donald trump. >> ruth, from your incredible perspective and the study of how countries careen towards autocracies. >> well, the geopolitical design is of both elon musk and trumpet is pretty clear. it is to align america with far right and autocratic nations . now the transactional comes in where it is not about left and right because elon musk is very dependent on china and many of his cars are made in china. in europe, he is going all out

and has been closer to the neo- fascist prime minister of italy for years now. so backing this extremist party in germany which has many neo- nazis in it and the self identified neo-nazis. that is a very bold move but it is consistent with this design of supporting far right to governance, racist white christian and paranoia for those that are against it or not pro-white christian and to save civilization in the same discourse that stephen miller gives us every day in the united states. there are a lot of similarities and this type of revolution of reaction which is how mussolini defined fascism in the 1920s. that is a core theme of my book " strongmen". and all of these

movements that elon musk is condoning and supporting and using his money and social media influence to prop up are part of this revolution of reaction against multi-faith and wrote multi-racial societies. we are seeing that of course unfold here. >> it is remarkable that we are having this conversation, eddie. we have this information and when it is available and when it was known. i do not know if we had a national conversation about all of this at least when they were not connected in a way that voters responded to. i guess i am old and naove enough to think this is not what the american people want or not something that is going to work well. >> i am not sure. and i hear stories talk about

this does not quite fit but it actually does. if we think about our history, there is a sense in which these racial divisions and this idea of white as always haunted the country since it was founded we know to the first immigration act of the 1700s. we need to go through our immigration history and we will see this ideology of whiteness. overdetermined the way in which we think about democracy. we begin to think about the history of the country. and to tell the truth about who we are. if we are going to tell the truth on who we are we can understand why the soil is actually so rich for elon musk and his ideas. >> they do not want the truth. >> we do not want the truth and in some sectors of the society we believe what he says. we know that carlson was with him. we know that there has been an element of the white supremacist movement that is global and a part of american politics since the election of

2008 of president obama and before. we have a clear idea if we understand who we are as a country. if we understand our history that this fits. it is not important, it is us. >> but it is also worse because now we are going to go out and get it. >> absolutely. and i like how you talked about the crisis of confidence speech in this first hour. if you combine it with that spiritual malays that he was talking about. human identity is no longer associate with one wanted does but what one owns. he is worried about the erosion of any moral sense because we are so caught up in materialism. if you combine the selfish, greed and hatred and you turn it on social media. and here we are. >> we could go for 7 more hours. maybe will make this a monday thing because we did even not get to how we fix it. stuart stevens, ruth ben-ghiat,

thank you. after the break, a loss for trump as they uphold the $5 million verdict in the defamation case just two days after trump threatens to go after her on social media. we will bring you that story, next. story, next.

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if you're worried that donald trump is mediating between elon musk and steve bannon . he is far from done

with his retribution from his $15 million settlement with abc news. also, with e. jean carroll sharing a post that she could be jailed for allegedly lying. although that is not what the jury found. e. jean carroll has won two defamation lawsuits against president elect donald trump. these are the success stories in to hold him to account. in today, they have upheld the $5 million judgment against shumsky from e. jean carroll. the writer was awarded the sum after a jury found president elect donald trump liable and defaming her. during our conversation, former top prosecutor, the department of justice andrew wiseman. your thoughts about where president elect donald trump is tromping in his retribution and

looking at jail time for e. jean carroll. >> well, i think this is such an interesting day. clearly what president elect donald trump and what they are doing is another shot across to send a message to those people that might sue him for wrong. e. jean carroll obviously was the victim here and was found by two juries that awarded her a sum of over $85 million. they found that she was sexually assaulted. the claims against her from donald trump are unsupported by any facts.

just legally, by the way, donald trump cannot relitigate that. he had an opportunity not once but twice and he could have testified nt did not. this is a lot of fear mongering but it is effective for fear mongering as we have seen in a variety of different contexts. i also think it is something to keep an eye on in terms of the courts. today's decision is quite a routine decision. there was not much of an illegal issue here. they issued an unusually long opinion to make sure that this case was bulletproof in terms of an appeal. issued as not one judge wrote it. that is also a sign of the affect of trump just to make sure that not one judge was bearing the brunt of any repercussions. and it remains to be seen whether the judicial system is going to hold up. today is a good sign but as you been talking about with eddie, it remains to if it is going to

last for 4 more years. >> andrew, let me share with you that roberta kaplan said about the most central trait of donald trump in these situations. >> he is actually a very good defamation defendant. if you're going to sue for defamation because he lies all the time. he lies as a matter of habit, big things, small things. in this case were able to show his lies not out about fake news and a hoax and a made-up story. but even when i showed him that famous photo where he mistaken that marla maples. he said the photo is blurry but the photo is not blurry but it was classic donald trump. >> it feels like we are quickly going to go to a place where we

are having to come on the air and defend what is true. what is so interesting about what roberta kaplan said is not necessarily the part about donald trump lying as a part of habit. people know that. it is that he will lie about things that are right in front of his face. he said the picture was blurry and it was not blurry because you have to do is publish the photo. i think we will find over the next four years. if people still believe eyes and ears. >> i think it is really going to be a question of how much we are willing, the leaders and the judges are willing to say that the emperor has no clothes. this decision today is almost 80 pages from a frivolous appeal and it is wrong in every way. normally, it would not be 80

pages, it would be quite short and it could have finished a lot sooner. the issue is how many judges, and how much speak out are going to be willing to say that white is white and black is black and there is such a thing as gravity. science exists and polio is a disease that can be cured. you can go on and on and how much we are willing to do that is going to be under severe challenge. it is remarkable that we are having this conversation but we have lived through an election that makes it necessary. >> let me end with this. it almost seems to be the shield, right.

if you still believe in the rule of law and it feels scary. maybe the smaller bite-size piece of that is to say that i believe people still trust their eyes and ears. people are afraid to stand in their positions and hold the line and defend the truth. >> you know, i may have told this story before but i asked this question several years ago to my parents about the joseph mccarthy era. we were comparing it with the situation we were now in and it was scarier. one of the comments having living through the joseph mccarthy area where there was this witchhunt for communist

people and even the blacklist. there was an enormous amount of fear and nobody was speaking up. there was no sense of the fact that there was a healthy group of americans who found this completely hypothetical to who we are as a people. that is something that differentiates the issue that we are with now. whether we are going to continue to have that differentiation, people that are willing to stand up and be counted. the things that you have been talking about in this show today and many other days. the fact that it takes an enormous backbone and president elect

donald trump knows that. it is at least the intention and the effect of what e he is doing it. to quiet people so that they do feel what happened during the joseph mccarthy area and they could speak up. >> as long as he is creating brawls between elon musk, steve bannon, we are going to be okay. andrew weissman, thank you. when we come back are you feeling anxious? if you are feeling anxious, and if you are answering yes, the fear, that is our next conversation, do not go anywhere.

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just before the new year officially start and three weeks before president elect donald trump returns to the white house, many are looking for strategies and make sense of the political divisions and differences in our country, neighborhoods and sometimes in our families. divisions that feel fraud and destructive at any point in our country's history. to help us think about it that is honest and perhaps not so anxiety and using is our friend, dan harris and a former

anchor. somebody i follow religiously on instagram and you are survival skills for the holidays. great to see you, my friend. it is nice to be here, and happy new year. >> i have three meditation apps on my phone and i never do any of them. how do you make yourself do the thing that makes you feel less athate which is anxiety, such as rooted in politics or anything else. >> how do you get your thing to do this is the question. one great way to motivate yourself is to do a lot of suffering. if you're walking around miserable, that can provide a very powerful incentive to do something about it. however, if you have these meditation apps on your phone and you do not find yourself actually meditating. i would not argue that meditation is the only road to sanity and anxiety reduction. one right way to reduce your anxiety is to take action. there is an x russian that

action absorbs anxiety. if you are doing something useful, whether it has to do with politics. if your anxiety is a result of politics, maybe get involved in local politics. but if you do not want to do that, you can volunteer at a soup kitchen, animal shelter. just even be more useful to the people in your life. this generosity can reduce your anxiety. in fact, just one last thing to say. before buddha taught meditation,. >> what is the social media prescription? i consume your great contact and content. but most of what i consume does not fill me up the way that it does. what is the guideline and so much is bad? >> really, unfortunately, there is no simple prescription here. the simplest is probably off

the table for many of us which would be to never go on social media. i go on a social media and we are all modern people, living in this world and we want to be engaged with what is happening in the culture. at that point, it is about listening to yourself. this is where meditation can be very helpful. it will boost your self- awareness and you might notice. i am on the eighth hour of scrolling on twitter and i'm starting to type it. maybe i should put my phone down. >> that is when you could call for a lifeline. and i have set in this - sat in his chair but let me ask you about your thoughts. we will all be right back. . narrator: at this very moment, children at st. jude are fighting to survive. with a gift right now, you can join the battle to save lives.

katy: without saint jude, i don't know where we would be. can we see snuggles? they have given children with cancer, like my winston, a chance. christine: she has neuroblastoma and it has spread to her liver. i try to enjoy every minute with her because i do not know when would be my last moments with her. narrator: time is running out to give a year-end gift that can help. st. jude children's research hospital save lives. because cancer doesn't stop during the holiday season. please call, go online, or scan the qr code right now and give $19 a month to help make it the season of hope for families at saint jude. tammie: just that feeling that was, like, so hard on your heart that my kid's not going to live. every day now, it's like a gift.

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oh... stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex, breathe,

ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! dan, what advice do you have that people that deliver the news but do not necessarily want to increase anybody's anxiety. >> my advice to you guys and to everybody watching is never worry alone. do not go through this tumultuous period of time as a solo in denver. make it a team sport. call your mother, your friends and talk to people. there is a ton of evidence that this is how we will get through this. >> you are white wingmen. >> that is it in the last paragraph i said in 2025 let us

make art that makes us a new world. let us write books that unsettle the settled. make music that stirs the soul and political positions that are not beholden to old ideologies. let us be more concerned about being decent and loving than being right and seeing this virtuous. let us tell the truth. >> i love that and i love you both. can we do this more often? every monday, please. dan harris, thank you so much we've been trying to do this for so long. and eddie glaude, thank you. another break for us and we will be right back. back. ichi, ni, san, shi... (1,2,3,4 . . ) ruri never thought she would live out her dream. then one day, she did. you were made to chase your passions. we were made to put them in a package. a chewy pharmacy order is en route for summit who loves the outdoors.

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thank you for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are so grateful. our coverage continues and in the meantime we want to take this opportunity to wish all of you a very, very happy new year. happy holidays and thanks for sharing a little bit of the season with us.