how that works in our entire public political discourse. that book is available to preorder now. i'm really excited to have it in the world. i hope it's useful for people. i am also going to be hitting the road, going to different venues across the country to talk about it. from san francisco to boston to los angeles to philadelphia to seattle to washington, d.c. to houston, to pittsburgh, to chicago, and that's not all, even more dates and locations are in the works. you can either scan the qr code here on the screen or go to the website, msnbc.com/thesirenscall to go to one of those events. that is all in for tonight, have a great day. first and foremost, happy holidays to all of you and congratulations for almost making it to the end of 2024. it feels like many, many lifetimes ago, but believe it or not, at the start of this

year, in the early days of 2024, as donald trump vanquished his republican primary opponents, one of the big questions hanging over the race was whether or not donald trump was even eligible to run for president. multiple lawsuits were filed across 36 states arguing that trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election were disqualifying under section 3 of the 14th amendment. and for a very brief moment, a few states successfully removed trump from their primary ballot. that was until march. when the supreme court ruled unanimously against them. just one in a series of rulings that ultimately benefited trump. chief among them, the high court's july decision on presidential immunity. that decision, which determined that presidents are immune from prosecution for any official acts, that decision effectively delayed the start of trump's federal criminal trials until after the election.

and ensured that trump would not face legal consequences for trying to overturn the 2020 election until voters head into the polls in this election. in 2024. and oh, what an election it was. the sitting president dropped out of the race 107 days before election day, then he endorsed his vice president as the democratic nominee. meanwhile, the republican nominee survived one assassination attempt in pennsylvania and then he survived another near assassination attempt in florida. and then after all of that, americans in each of the seven swing states chose to return the 45th president to the white house. >> i want to thank the american people for the extraordinary honor of being elected your 47th president and your 45th president. america has given us an

unprecedented and powerful mandate. i will govern by a simple motto, promises made, promises kept. we're going to keep our promises. nothing will stop me from keeping my word to you, the people. we will make america safe, strong, prosperous, powerful, and free again. >> in light of trump's victory in november, the federal and state criminal cases against trump have all either been dropped or suspended indefinitely. in other words, trump's delay tactics worked. still, the fact remains that donald trump is the first and only american president to be a convicted felon. but also in just a few weeks on january 20, 2025, donald trump will reenter the white house emboldened. trump previously, famously, said he would not be a dictator, quote, except for day one. and on that first day, we will very likely see the start of a sweeping conservative agenda,

including carrying out the largest mass deportation operation in american history. expanding domestic oil production, pardoning the january 6 rioters, and reshaping the federal government by firing potentially thousands of career government employees. trump's plans will be assisted in large part by republican majorities in both the house and the senate. he will also have a group of hard core loyalists filling his cabinet to execute on his vision. now, whether or not all of trump's picks gain confirmation, that remains an open question. but it certainly seems possible that people, including pete hegseth. patel, pam bondi, they will be running key agencies within the federal government. so, how should we orient ourselves as we head into 2025? what can we expect? joining me now are claire mccaskill. it's great to have both of you

wise people here. predicter, fortune tellers. claire, you know, i wonder, you've been through trump one, and i wonder how you're thinking about the dawn of trump two, and whether some of these very big promises, bigger than the promises he made the first time around will be executed on. >> you know, if you take off what he promised last time, he promised a wall and paid for it, no, didn't happen. he was going to reduce the deficit, he blew the deficit up. so really, there were very few promises he kept in the first administration except cutting taxes for wealthy folks. and he managed to do that with a republican only vote in the senate and also in the house. there may have been a few. bottom line is, he is now promised a mass deportation, you know, that is way harder

than it looks and i don't think a huge chunk of the folks who voted for him will like the way that looks. he says he will take off taxes of social security. he says all kinds of things that blow up the deficit. and i honestly, i don't see there's any way that the congress is going to be sitting next year with a very slim margin in the house and only a four-vote lee way in the senate is going to do the things that he promised. so i will tell you right now, promises made, promises broken. >> yeah, john, from the bare knuckle brawl that is partisan politics in washington, d.c., how do you see the sort of trump's chances in getting any of this signature -- these signature proposals actually run through the bureaucracy and you know, the reality of congress. washington, d.c. is not called the swamp for no reason, but i mean, trump's grip may will tighter, but they have very,

very narrow majorities here. >> you're right to refer to senator mccaskill as wise and sage. she does point out the most important thing here, which is the republican party and the house has basically no margin for error. you have seen president-elect trump now basically take people from the house that he will put to his administration. making that even harder to get things through the house. so, that's going to be the biggest challenge. of course, the senate rules do allow for something and i don't want to get too nerdy. they allow for something called budget reconciliation. you'll see trump try to put together a reconciliation package, which will largely be tax cuts. maybe a few items that you mentioned with an effort to get it through the house and get it to the senate, because in reconciliation, you need 50 senate votes. so, that's the first thing for us to look at. what is he putting into a

reconciliation package and to senator mccaskill's point, a lot of the things he wants to do is blow up the deficit. intended to help balance the budget. to close the gap and deficits. to bring down debt overtime. in practical reality, it's used to do the exact opposite. and all of these proposals would explode the deficit and add to the debt. it's not clear what he would do to offset that. i know elon musk is looking at government programs he thinks he can cut. i don't think the votes are going to be there in congress for anything close you would need to offset what the plans would do to the deficit. >> i mean, unsurprisingly, i see chaos, claire, the fact you have republican senators who are up for reelection in 2026, that may not want to get on board, mass deportations. you have elon musk, vivek in the mix, literally dictating maneuvers in the house and

perhaps in the senate. this speaks to a center of gravity that is dispursed, right? and requires someone in the white house who can manage factions and trump's behavior up until this point has not been to manage factions, but to put people against each other. he likes the game of throwns. that may be interesting from a narrative point of view, in a governing point of view, he's setting himself up for disappointment. what are your hopes for, you know, the senate being a source of potential mediation in all of this? >> well, you know, there's a song in the music man about trouble. it says key that rimes with p. in this instance, that stands for primaries. what you're talking about is who in the senate that is a republican is so worried about a primary that they will do things that will get them in

trouble in the general. and you know, alex, people need to remember, there are still states that will elect a republican or a democrat in the senate. i mean, pennsylvania is a good example. north carolina, not too long ago. you have ohio who just turned over a seat by a pretty narrow margin. you look at utah, where trump has never been, the end all, be all to the people of utah. you look at some of these senators and you look, how long will it be until they run. how worried are they about a primary? how much can they stand up to trump? honestly, the thing that will be the most interesting is the clash of the titans. trump versus musk. because trump loves deficits. trump loves debt. his entire career has been about debt. and musk is busy acting like some richest man in the world from the sidelines is going to

somehow dictate to the members of congress what they do. there will be a blowup and i can't wait to watch it. that's what i'm looking forward to. >> to that point, john, it's such an unusual arrangement. elon musk, and the dawn of the second trump term, elon musk is acting in a more prominent role in terms of hill negotiations than j.d. vance, the former senator. he has no governing experience. he has interfaced with the government through his companies, but is out dictating fiscal policy and legislative priorities. i guess i wonder from your vantage point, how long you think that lasts and what you see in the strange love triangle between elon musk, jd vance, and donald trump. >> when president trump realizes that elon musk thinks that he is president musk, that's going to be a problem.

there's not room for two presidents in the united states and donald trump doesn't see, you know, room for another alpha male at the head of his government. number one, that seems like a collision course that is going to happen. number two, to your point, elon musk does not have governing experience. you just have to look at his twitter feed to see some of the things he suggested in the vivek suggested. they are only nonstarters on capitol hill, but also the things that become a political disaster for any of the members of congress voting for them. when they start to understand how government works, they will adjust a little bit and try to figure out what it is they can't do. the third thing i would point out is, elon musk has given the head position or cochairmanship with vivek ramaswamy. i think senator mccaskill can tell you how much power blue

ribbon commissions have in congress. to my experience, the answer is none. and you know, obviously, suggestions will be taken seriously by republicans on the hill, or at least some of them. it will be difficult to get votes for an entire package of cuts. >> you know, there's a question of what the legislative branch does. there's also the question of how useful, i will say, the cabinet agencies may be in carrying out parts of trump's agenda. on that note, i wonder what you make of the picks that trump has launched into the stratus sphere so far. does it help to have someone like pete hegseth when he wants to weaponnize the military against u.s. citizens or does it hurt him given the fact that pete hegseth has no experience managing a bureaucracy that size. does it help him that gabbard may be a dni, or patel, in terms of carrying out his orders. or neither one of them managed

a bureaucracy that size. how do you look at him in terms of their broader agenda? >> first of all, i don't think they will all get through. it only takes four, and some of these folks, like it'll si gabbart, has not gone well. i'm talking about republican senators. she appears ill prepared. she doesn't really understand how the intelligence community works. she has been flat footed about her love affair, i should put that in quotes. not literally. figuratively, her affection for assad in syria, who we now know, finding the mass graves of his citizens that he killed. so, i don't think they will all make it. the other chance that people are taking voting for these folks, will they face plant? will they be able to execute? and trump is doing something that is not uncommon in

washington. yes, he won the swing states. but he didn't get 50% of vote, alex. he's going to over reach here. he thinks somebody that voted for him likes him. maybe the price of ground beef and milk and eggs will come down if he is president. and he has that over his shoulder. the economy. and the tariffs he is proposing. the other things he's proposing. that is not a way to get to a place where you're going to bring down inflation. so, it's going to be very interesting to see whether or not the democrats can stand up to him in a way they speak to voters instead of talking about him. >> a heaping dose of real talk for your stocking stuffer from claire mccaskill. john allen, thank you for joining me on this special evening. i wish you happy holidays, lots of rest for the months and years to come. thanks, my friends. >> happy holidays. still to come tonight, how donald trump's love of crypto could make some rich folks even

richer. all at taxpayer expense. plus, antiabortion activists are emboldened by what they won during the first trump administration and now they have a wish list for round two. that's next.

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during his first term in the white house, president trump delivered for the antiabortion . he appointed the conservative justices who were key in overturning roe v. wade. those activists are ready to hand the incoming president a new to-do list. one of their top asks is outlawing medication abortion. here's what trump had to say about that during his first post election interview on meet the press. >> will you restrict the availability of abortion pills

when you're in office? >> probably say with exactly what i've been saying for the last two years and the answer is no. >> you commit to that? >> i commit. i mean, things change, i think they change. i don't like putting myself in a position like that. so things do change, but i don't think it's going to change at all. >> i don't think it's going to change at all, but also, things do change. access to abortion pills remains very much a live issue. three states recently filed a joint lawsuit against the fda renewing efforts to restrict the primary drug used in medication abortions,my mifepristone. joining me now, mini, thank you for being here as we peer into the magic 8 ball to understand what is ahead of us as a country. the first question i have for you is the states trying to sue the fda over mifepristone, what makes that movement meaningfully different than the last effort to do the same

thing that ended up with the supreme court sort of rejecting the plaintiffs arguments saying you don't have standing to sue here. how is this different and do you think it could be more successful? >> yeah, i think the biggest difference is we don't have a biden administration to defend their fda and its decisions and we don't have a biden administration fda anymore either. you know, not only do we not have friends in the white house and in the admin, we will have embedded in fda, in the solicitor general's office, a team of folks who are on the same side as the states that are suing the fda. that is deeply, deeply problematic. the fda is supposed to be above politics. we already know and we know the play book from project 2025. we know based on these nominees that trump is putting forward and folks he's surrounding himself with. they have every intent at pursuing this agenda. i think it's so interesting,

however, that donald trump himself understands, extremely well, how deeply and popular that agenda is, which is why that meet the press interview was so interesting and why he is so careful to not commit one way or another. he knows the majority of americans, including the ones who voted for him, support access to abortion, including medication abortion and that it is popular and it's the most widely used form of abortion in this country. >> i think that political reality is interesting, right? you can see him trying to have it both ways when you talk to nbc's kristen welker. thingsdon't change, things do change. just keeping the door flapping open in the wind, if not just open to whatever may happen, you know? i do think it puts his fda in the hot seat, if they, in fact, are the ones that don't argue against a ban on medication abortion and or puts the supreme court in the hot seat and puts them in the position of once again outlawing abortion, given the fact that

you know, medication abortion is the most common method of abortion in the united states. are you -- i know what you think about trump and the fda. whether there is anything that might suggest they would be hesitant to do the thing that i think is tarnished their reputation in the eyes of some. >> so, i'll say the negative part first. the court kicked the can down the road by ruling unstanding. they left the door open for antiabortion extremists to file a different kind of case with more credibility. so, frankly, i'm very concerned about this court. this is the same court as you've pointed out that overturned roe v. wade. this is a court that did not equivocate specifically on this issue. they left it to standing, which frankly the lower court should have dismissed it in the first place on standing. but yes, the fda should be an independent agency. there is a chance that the administration and the folks in

it will decide to let 20 plus years of medication abortions stand. i am skeptical about the court. that being said, we absolutely have to continue to build public awareness of the popularity of this medication. last year, when this case went to the court from texas all the way to the supreme court, we ran a multiplatform campaign educating american voters about the importance of medication abortion and that is exactly what we are poised do again. it does matter when the public raises awareness and conscienceness. i hope the court is watching. they have never been less popular in this country. and overturning roe was a terrible precedent to set for so many issues that trump and the gop are trying to avoid being tagged with. >> you know, i wonder independent of this particular effort to ban medication abortion, there's also state level efforts like the one undertaken by texas attorney

general, ken paxton, which is in direct violation of state law. basically, this new york doctor is part of a group that mails abortion medication to women in red states who cannot access it themselves. there are shield indivisible protect those doctors. it is a challenge between effectively red states and blue states. red states saying, that's not legal here. don't send those medications here. blue states, this is in the best interest of women, we're going to treat them accordingly. even if it's not ultimately successful, there is the chilling effect that can have on doctors that want to do what they think in their eyes is the right thing for these women. >> so look, we know there's a reason that ken paxton is going after this new york doctor. it's also an opportunity for them, much like they did on immigration, much like they did by busing immigrants to other

states. they are trying to make the case. that there is something wrong with doctors from one state, taking care of patients from another. they know and we said this last year, and the last time this went to the supreme court. they know medication abortion is popular. they know it is very easy to access. that it is a back door. it is a way around abortion bans in red states. they have absolutely no interest in letting their constituents have access to this care from any place else. these doctors in places like new york and this doctor in particular, they are putting their careers on the line to take care of patients from other states. what i think is really interesting and a story that i would like our side to do a better job of telling. we'll be talking about it a lot in the coming year, is the success story of blue states. the fact that california, new york, so many places have these fantastic shield laws. they have supportive governors, legislators, attorneys general. both california and new york have provided safe haven for these folks to get this care.

this is how we're going to survive the next couple of years before we can restore access. these folks are heros. i want us to talk about how the blue states are leading the way and protecting our fundamental freedoms and expanding them while the red states are continuing to do what the majority of americans do not accept, which is hold these women captive, restricting them for bodily atonmy and care they deserve. >> we're now at the point where you need sanctuary states for women's reproductive healthcare. thank you for spending this holiday season with me. i really appreciate your time. >> happy holidays. >> still to come, the cruelty is the point for trump 2.0 when it comes to immigration. the resistance is already beginning. plus, how donald trump's crypto boosting could make some of his biggest financial supporters very, very rich. that's next.

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i think crypto has a great

future. i think it really does. maybe we'll pay off the $35 trillion. i'll write it on a little piece of paper. we have no debt. >> it did not get a lot of attention at the time, donald trump really did say that he wants to pay down the national debt using crypto currency. and now that he has been elected, trump's wild crypto fantasies may become reality. charlie writes for the atlantic, there's speculation trump could make good on a proposal to create a reserve of bitcoins in the u.s., which could involve the federal government buying 200,000 bitcoins a year over the next five years, by using the country's gold reserves. for large crypto holders, this would be a transfer from the government to crypto whales. that seems like a crazy thing to do. crypto currency claims to be about creating money that does not rely on the u.s.

government. but it makes sense. when you understand crypto currency, not as a new technology or the symbol of some online libertarian movement, but as an industry life with speculators looking to cash in on donald trump's second term. whether trump understands crypto beyond the basic notion it's a good way to win votes and get rich off the backs of his supporters, is not clear. but the alliance between trump and the crypto constituency makes sense philosophically. trump is corrupt and he loves money. joining me now is the author of that piece, who is a staff writer at the atlantic. this piece in particular was helpful for me. i'm sure many other people who read it, understand the handshake between maga and crypto. can you elaborate on the antiinstitutional bent that unites these subgroups of people and why there is so much kinship in these two worlds? >> there's a lot of synergy

here. and a lot of it is probably cynical, right? as i wrote in the piece. crypto seems like a technology that was in some ways built for the way donald trump likes to conduct business, right? is what off the books and you know, sort of nakedly financial, like greed is good in the crypto ecosystem. more important is the ethos of bitcoin and block chain it's built off of. it is an antiinstitutional technology. that's the way it was created. to you know, to take the middleman out. take away the banks and the central bankers and the government and the oversight and the regulation and all those institutional guardrails that, you know, they help protect people, but they also leave people out of the financial system. people who are into crypto are really into that antiinstitutional authority.

it makes a lot of sense. we're in an extremely low trust moment. the maga world is full of people who are incredibly skeptical and distrustful and resentful, and they like the idea of this. this culture has a real, you know, overlap with the maga, the trump ethos. >> nothing says antiinstitutional like the president creating a bitcoin reserve, built on gold. can we talk about the irony using federal gold reserves to buy a strategic bitcoin reserve? i mean the whole point is it's outside the government. do you see any issue with the creation of this? do we need to worry about crypto cash? also, will the public care? this is undermining the very point of crypto. >> it is undermining the point. it is hypocrite call. it's also very alarming, i think. you know, who is to say whether donald trump will make good on

any of this or whether this is service to a constituency that put a lot of money behind him and put a lot of faith in him. i think what's really alarming about this is the fact that this would be a wealth transfer from the federal government to the people who currently hold a lot of bitcoin. the government would be buying bitcoin from these people. and every time, every year, it would buy about 200,000 bitcoins. every year it did that, you know, that purchase would drive the price of bitcoin up. and making it so the next year, when the government was buying those reserves, it would cost the government more money. they would be getting a worse price. and then you know, a side of the corruption element of that, you also have this idea of the government having this strategic reserve of the most volatile currency that has really existed that is not like tulips. it's a very alarming thing for

our global financial system to be with this technology that is best suited for doing crime. >> well, and as you point out, the narrative of that, taking crypto bros and making them rich over year, it's not what the working class agenda of maga would tolerate, right? in theory, it's such a transfer of wealth to the richest again and again. one would think there would be political fallout from that. >> when i put all of the stuff, the trump policies, just the notion that crypto has enriched a certain set of people who have become important political donors to this researcher, molly white, that studies cryptocurrencys, and the volatile effects. what she said to me was striking, which essentially is, there's this antiinstitution gnat authority adopted by these folks. then once they get the power or

the influence, they basically lose that and say, well we're not antiinstitutionallist, we want to be the institutions. we want to be the authority. that's what we're trying to see here with, you know, if these trump proposals go through. if we start to see, you know, the regulations for crypto that help it thrive. i think what will happen, it is going to be a new set of authority and it's going to be the people who are rich from this asset. >> i mean, charlie, it's a great piece. i'm a big fan of your writing like i said at the top of the segment. everybody should read it. it's important perspective for the coming months and years. thank you for your time in this busy holiday season. i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me still to come, trump is vowing to use inhumane tactics

to expel undocumented immigrants. the worst impulses before, what those groups are planning to do now. that's next.

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deportation of immigrants, that has broadened to possibly include american citizens who live with undocumented family members. >> i don't want to be breaking up families, so the only way you don't break up the family, you keep them together and you have to send them all back. >> as trump prepares to fulfill promises, advocacy groups are preparing to fight him. and at the forefront, is the american civil liberties union, the aclu, which successfully delayed the implementation of the muslim ban and helped end his administration's practice of separating migrant families. with less than a month before inauguration day, the aclu says it's ready. joining me now is aclu's political and advocacy officer. it's great to have you here. tell us something good. first of all, the talk of immigration. trump is prepared for the largest deportation, or preparing for the largest deportation operation in american history. i wonder how you guys are

thinking about a battle, which could be one of epic proportions. how are you preparing? >> thank you for having me. yes, trump starts talking about criminals and then immediately moves to talking about deporting 20 million people, which is in fact, double the estimated number of people who are actually undocumented in our country. and the aclu has been preparing on three fronts. first, of course, our litigation front. i want to remind you during trump's first administration, the aclu filed more than 400 legal actions against the trump administration and was successful in many of them, even arguing before trump appointed judges. so, we are confident in our litigation teams ability to meet this moment. second is, what we're calling our fire wall for freedom. and this is an effort that we are doing with our affiliates,

the aclu has an affiliate in every single state in this country. and those affiliates have close relationships with their governors, their attorneys general, the legislatures, the mayors and cities. so we have been working together to build out a fire wall to protect people's rights and liberties at the state and city level. and then finally, there are our millions of grass roots supporters. all across the country. we have been holding trainings, we have hundreds and hundreds of people coming to these weekly trainings to learn about what we can anticipate from a trump administration and start to get ready to fight back. >> can you talk about the states and the fire wall? what is the fire walls of freedom. what does that mean when you say you are partnering with states. most of them are blue states, mayors, governors, etcetera. what does that mean on a practical level is this >> exactly.

so on a practical level, it's giving them the tools that they need to resist. to say, no, our state or our cities resources are not going to be used to carry out your undemocratic, political plan. whatever it may be. to violate people's rights. states do not have an obligation to take their state resources, whether it be police or national guard or proprietary personal information about their residence, and use it in service of trump's political agenda. they are under no obligation to do that and we're helping them have the tools to not do that. >> states rights is now a liberal cause. i do wonder, you know, you mention that the aclu had success arguing its cases before trump's appointed judges. how are you guys thinking about the supreme court where so many of these high profile pieces of litigation end up. now that they seem to have handed trump some very real

wins this year. how are you looking at that as the final, you know, end game to a lot of this? >> yes, well first of all, remind you that hardly any cases go to the supreme court. it is less than 1% of all legal cases that are heard across our judiciary system go to the supreme court. so many, many, many cases are decided in lower courts. but yes, the supreme court does have a mixed record and you know, i think we have really seen in the aftermath of the dobbs decision, a real disappointment with how politicized the court has been with the general public. however, we see courts as an important piece of protecting democracy. we still argue in front of the supreme court and we still expect a fair hearing. >> well, listen, all i know is we are going to be looking towards you for a lot of information. i think there are a lot of americans looking for pushback. it's great to hear how you are

thinking about the road ahead. and we will be in touch in the coming weeks and months. thank you for spending a little bit of the holiday season. i hope you get rest before january 20. thanks for your time again. happy holidays. >> thank you so much. happy holidays. >> we'll be right back.

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the guy in the pickup truck just punched the gas and mowed over the barricade and hit