out his message this morning. he endorsed johnson, but his message this morning was, good luck, mike johnson. it was not exactly the most stirring, forceful public message you have ever heard. he does not want to be embarrassed by whatever happens. >> well, that does it for me this hour. as we continue to watch the events on the house floor, and how mike johnson is going to either pull out these votes, and it's only three votes, and secure his speakership on the first ballot, or whether they have to go to a second ballot. alex witt picks up coverage right now. welcome, everyone, good day to all of you. i'm alex witt. we have been watching high drama, bracing for round two after three republican holdouts, appear to have sunk his bid to be speaker of the house, this in just the first round of voting.

the defectors being thomas massie, johnson could only lose one vote. massie was a lock at a no. the would be speaker said prior to the vote he is in this for the long haul. let's be clear on this, until a new speaker is elected, the house stands still, essentially. it cannot conduct any other business, including swearing in any of the new members, though interestingly, they are allowed to vote in the vote for speaker of the house. if this is not resolved quickly, though, this could delay monday's certification of donald trump's election victory on the newly voteable date of january 6th. joining us now we have nbc news correspondent sahil kapur on capitol hill, we have senior congressional reporter for "punchbowl news" and an msnbc political contributor, melanie zanona there. republican strategist, former

director of communications director for house speaker paul ryan, and spokesperson for congressman hakeem jeffries, michael hardaway in studio. sahil, let's go to you first here, we're looking back to what happened to kevin mccarthy two years ago right now. it took four days, 15 rounds of voting. so it doesn't feel like it's going to be anything like that this time with johnson, but they are still open in this first vote. they have yet to gavel it, is my understanding. so what are they doing? >> reporter: and here we go again, alex. it is a lot like 2023, the early part of the new house majority where they struggle to elect the speaker in kevin mccarthy, but, yes, it is a bit different, in large part because now republicans have the trifecta. they have to govern, which means the stakes are much much higher than they were in 2023. and remember, this is just the easy part. after this, they actually have

to govern, speaker mike johnson, if he does end up getting elected in a subsequent ballot, he has to govern with the wafer thin majority which is going to shrink by two more votes from 217 to 215. any one member is going to be able to take down bills as they move to complicated tasks like funding the government, the debt limit, major party line bills on immigration, border, energy, they have to elect a speaker first. you're right that the gavel has not dropped yet. the vote has not officially been called. this is going to continue on an infinite loop until the house elects a speaker with an outright majority. mike johnson has one more vote than hakeem jeffries. he has lost three republicans to defections who are voting for other candidates. the most interesting part here, alex, is that all three of them are voting for fferent candidates, none of whom are running. at this point, what johnson has to do is convince two of them, the obvious two names that he

needs to convince are ralph norman, and tom massie is deeply dug in. how he does that is unclear. this is again, a very poor start for house republicans in what's likely to be a challenging task ahead for the eventual speaker. >> so melanie, with mike johnson saying he's not going to make deals with anyone, i'm curious what is happening now. there's got to be some kind of deal making going on, particularly to sahil's point, those two, ralph norman and keith self of south carolina and texas respectively. what do you think is being done to approach them, and say we need you to change your vote? is there any presumption that ultimately speaker johnson will not be reelected speaker johnson? >> the margin for error is very very small, he needs to flip two members, and i think it also

depends on what your definition of what a deal is. he says he's not going to cut any deals. at the same time, he cut out this social media post, laying out a list of commitments that he said he was going to make, mostly regarding fiscal responsibility, the doge committee, some of those things. in fact, those are things ralph norman, one of the members who voted against johnson today said he wanted to see. perhaps johnson tries to make more philosophical big commitment pictures as opposed to deals. he's adamant, he does not want to reopen the rules package that may contain the rules regarding the motion to vacate speakership. other rules erning the house, that was released the other day. we'll see how desperate he gets, alex, if this does go on for multiple rounds, he might have no other choice than to cut a deal. very similar to kevin mccarthy, if you remember, last year, he was insistent he was not going to change the motion to vacate, he went on for rounds and rounds

and ended up caving on that. naming chip roy of the house rules committee, that is the key panel, a traffic cup to what legislation gets on and off the floor. johnson has been resistant to that up until this point. he did get chip roy's vote on the floor. what will it take to convince people like norman and keith self. massie is a hard no no matter what. they're not going to bother trying to flip his vote. >> what was behind chip roy's wait? he made everybody wait. he didn't go through it on the first time, silent, second time when they called his name, he said it. what's the point of that, to make a point? >> they wanted to put johnsonnon notice. if you look at the members, three members that voted for someone other than johnson, and six members who initially withheld their vote. they ended up all voting for johnson, six, six plus three is

nine, which happens to be the number that it will require to trigger a motion to vacate down the line. perhaps they were putting johnson on notice, we might be willing to give you a few rounds, we have the numbers to take you down at any point, just like we did with kevin mccarthy. >> i want to try to figure out what's going on right now, as we look at these mostly empty seats right now. what is happening to try to convince norman and self to come over to johnson? i'm curious the kinds of deals that can be made because there's not a lot of time here. we all know what has to happen on monday. they're supposed to certify donald trump's election. so what kind of deals do you think could be being made underway right now? >> there's a lot of talking going on. probably trump staffers off the floor who have the president on the line, the line is open with trump. elon musk is tweeting, texting members, you know, trying to get ahold of them.

it really comes down to what your definition of deal making is. a big piece of advice johnson has been getting is not make deals that come back to haunt him. can he make commitments, pledges, making chip roy rules, things that won't offend the 200 other members, and you know, if it's just down to these two members who are resistant, sure there has to be something he can say, he can put in the record, again, without constraining himself down the line. it's not worth it, as the stakes get higher. again, it's a question of who's in that room, right? is it j.d. vance, is it trump, you know, speaker obviously. who's going to be there at the end making these deals with the speaker and on the speaker's behalf. >> to what extent does mike johnson go out and speak to these two? do you think it's legislative aides and they pass notes to each other and say what they have heard. how much will mike johnson say,

all right, you two, let me go out and meet you in the hallway. >> he's doing a lot of listening. one of the reasons he's still the speaker and is poised to continue to be the speaker. he's willing to listen. he's had a lot of meetings. sometimes speakers will wait in the office and come on to be the closers. he's very hands on, willing to talk. obviously here there is a clock. this is indeed an infinite loop that can go on and on. he can kind of have this drag out. he's very hands-on, and you know, he's able to leverage the fact, a years long relationship with president trump, we think about him as the speaker for the last 14 months. his relationship with trump goes back to the last five years in the first impeachment he was defending. he has a lot of leverage and goodwill to play on. that's one of the things we have talked about throughout the day. the members, even the ones against him, they like him personally, and that level of personal, you know, mutual like, it does matter here in these situations. >> mel anie, i want to go back o

reporting you have put out there with punch bowl, and you said johnson has been told, we don't want these handshake deals, the kinds of things we saw kevin mccarthy doing to get himself elected speaker two years ago, so, again, i'm still trying to figure out what can be done, the promises that are made, if these aren't handshake deals, are they verbal commitments? we don't have to get into the details of what you shake hands on or give your word to t the kinds of things that need to be done to bring these two over to your side, norman and self. >> i think it's complicated for johnson. he's looking at what kevin mccarthy did last year. he had to cut all of these side deals that ended up coming to haunt him, not just the motion to vacate, but putting some of these conservative hard liners on key committees that bucked leadership and created major obstacles for the leadership, and a lot of that was because of the deals that kevin mccarthy had to cut in order to win the gavel. for johnson, he has been

wrestling with this the last few days. when you cut deals with conservatives, you're going to upset moderates, growing increasingly frustrated with how the process is playing out. they have been falling in line, and they're the ones that have to end up suffering the consequences, and they're extremely frus tralted trated t these deals being cut or talked about. making chip roy, the speaker is going to try to do here, people with norman and self, sit them in a room, figure out, what will make you feel comfortable to get to yes. he is definitely someone who has used more of a carrot that a stick approach. and he has donald trump in his back pocket. donald trump did call chip roy in the last few days, tried to talk him into voting for johnson. said we need your vote, can we count on you, and chip roy ultimately was a yes. so they have some other sort of weapons at their disposal, they could turn up the heat with

donald trump. as this goes on, we'll probably see that pressure ramp up as well. >> sahil, you have insight into what's happening right now, and in addition, how this reflects on donald trump, it's not a smooth smart. >> reporter: certainly not, alex. first, it's a crucial moment for speaker mike johnson. he's not speaker. congressman mike johnson at the moment. does he call members into his office and start making concessions, start cutting deals. the problem with that is he's teaching his detractors that these tactics work. they can go against him on something as crucial as this and create chaos and be rewarded for it, by getting a conversation with the speaker, by maybe getting some of the things they want. that is part of the kevin mccarthy legacy. it's not the legacy he wanted but he felt like he had no choice but to make those concessions, and those concessions led to his undoing. with regard to donald trump, it's a setback for speaker johnson, but also to donald trump, who put out multiple

messages in recent days urging republicans to support mike johnson for speaker so this house can get to work and get started moving forward on his agenda. as mike johnson has mentioned, the house cannot certify donald trump's presidential victory in just a few days on january 6th unless they have a speaker. johnson said this would be a constitutional crisis. the date, january 6th, is set in the constitution for the house to act by then, and beyond that, yes, the fact that there is a deal between the center right and the hard right in the house as of several months ago to raise the motion to vacate threshold to nine members, as melanie was pointing out, you can kind of count to nine in the way this panned out, which, again, shows the familiar faction of hard right republicans is trying to convey that they want to keep mike johnson on a short leash for speaker. they might come after him again. not the start that republicans will have wanted to their trifecta. >> to my question earlier as to

whether or not mike johnson would be out there doing some negotiating himself, there you all see him, dead center of the screen, so he's clearly back on the house floor and we don't know if he was able to speak with south carolina's ralph norman or texas's keith self to see exactly what their concerns are. if he's done that since our cameras were turned away or since the first role call. the one republican vote, which was congressman thomas massie who said no, and he's elaborated on that. let me remind viewers what he said about this t. it's extraordinary. you can pull all of my finger nails out, you can shove bamboo up in them. you can start cutting off my fingers, i'm not voting for mike johnson tomorrow. obviously said that to yesterday, and you can take that to the bank. so democrats have said they're not going to stop in to try to save johnson, they did that back

in may. is there a point where it would be to their advantage to do this? >> there is not. i will say this. for the overall trump agenda over the next two years, it could be in trouble if massie is going to operate in this way, and democrats are not going to vote for a $5 trillion tax cut for rich people and other things donald trump has lined up. democrats are not going to step in here. they're not going to do that as these things come up. >> we're watching johnson on the move. we see him just to the left of your screen. and there he's just exited the door. we don't know where he's going. although our intremendous -- intrepid reporter garrett haake is going to. where do things stand with regard to mike johnson actually speaking with the two no holdouts. it would sound like there's no reason for him to approach

thomas massie, he's not changing his mind. >> reporter: that's a correct assumption. we saw mike johnson step off into a cloak room with ralph norman and keith self. scott perry, who's, i believe, the former leader of the house freedom caucus but still very influential with some of the more far right members, and dusty johnson, no relation to mike johnson, who eads the main street caucus in the house republican party, really the center of the moderate establishment, he would hate that characterization. he was a key negotiator for kevin mccarthy during his speakership fight as well. wants to see the place run smoothly. those are the folks that need to get into a room to hammer out a deal. mike johnson, clearly aware of the cameras on them. clearly wanted to keep the vote open, keep the process going, keeping the conversations going off the floor. the key players are in a room,

one of several cloak rooms that break up the sort of exterior of the house chamber where there are no cameras, no one who's not a member allowed, really one of the very few places that can speak truly privately just off the floor. also, alex, a place where they could theoretically take phone calls, especially from a perhaps interested president-elect, and noted cable news viewer and republican politics watcher down in south florida, if he's so inclined. >> there's that, but apparently they can't escaped watchful eyes of you, garrett haake. you may not be able to eavesdrop, but you see them going in there to do their thing, which they must do in the interim period. i'm going to ask sahil, garrett, melanie, michael, we're going to take a quick break as these guys are breaking on the house floor. we'll be right back on msnbc. we'll be right back on msnbc

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21 past, and we can say there's a whole lot of something going on, but unfortunately most of it is happening out of sight from us. maybe garrett haake will have his eyes on something. i welcome him back. melanie zanona, mike ricci, michael hard way, jonathan capehart, msnbc host, and associate editor for "the washington post." garrett, you said you saw a group going into the cloak room, a place where we cannot put eyes nor ears, but who's in that cloak room now, and what might

they be doing beyond talking amongst themselves because you mentioned they can get a phone call? >> that's right, alex, the people who need to be involved in this conversation are all at least in the right room at the moment. mike johnson, along with dusty johnson of south dakota, one of his key lieutenants, are in this room with ralph norman and keith self, two of the three members who had voted against johnson or voted for other members. along with a couple of other conservative allies of those two. johnson has been pretty proud of the fact that he's knocked down any kind of deals. he made a point to say he engaged in no quid pro quos to secure the gavel. those conversations, at least, are probably what's going on right now. it's also possible that a person not in the room is weighing in, and that's donald trump who has been pretty vocal in his endorsement of mike johnson. and who has the ability to work the phones on behalf of his chosen candidate for speaker which may or may not be useful, given the fact that these holdouts all style themselves as

trump supporting conservatives who have various issues with either mike johnson specifically or how the house does business more generally. whether johnson has anything that he can promise or anything that he can offer, may e the challenge here. he has a lot of control over things like committee assignments, structural changes that he can make here. he can not guarantee that legislation gets passed or gets to donald trump's desk, not on his own, not without the help of the democrats who will have a voice of some significance in the senate, and probably in the house given how much of a struggle it's been for republicans to pass much of anything on their own in the last congress, now coming into this one with an even smaller, and as we're learning, equally fractious majority. >> absolutely. to you, it doesn't seem like anyone else wants this job. are there any possible alternatives to johnson being floated. let me specifically focus on jim

jordan and byron daniels, the reason i do that is because ralph norman cast his vote for jim jordan. we know jim jordan may have wanted it the last time around. he was up for it. withdrew his name from contention when he realized there was no way he could get the speakership. byron donalds, he was the one that keith self of texas cast for. what's the likelihood that those two who got a single vote would go to those two who cast their votes for them and say, not this time around, this isn't for me. you've got to vote for johnson. >> i do know from talking to sources that there are some freedom caucus members who are pressuring both of those folks right now and saying, you need to get on board, you need to vote for mike johnson. there's moderates like dusty johnson who have been in the room as well. there's a full-out pressure campaign from all wings of the conference to get norman and self on board with johnson's speakership.

it's why they haven't closed the vote. so hopeful he can clinch this thing on the first round. he took the numbers off the floor. they have been on the phones, unclear whether donald trump may be called in or not. we have to wait and see. in terms of a viable alternate tifr, that -- alternative, that has been the central issue. the same with kevin mccarthy, no one else can get 218. johnson is the closest person who can get to the number at this moment. jim jordan tried and failed. he had 20 people who voted against him. there is a bloc of moderates, a lot of bad blood in regards to jim jordan. he's not considered really a viable alternative at this point. byron donalds wants to run for governor in florida. he has run for a bunch of different other things, and hasn't exceeded internally in the house conference. i'm skeptical that either of those are real alternatives. this to me is more about showing opposition, registering opposition to johnson, more than

it is about the names mentioned and perhaps they're trying to get concessions. i talked to norman yesterday, and he said he wants things like use of the so called suspension, so kind of maneuvering is going on behind closed doors. there is a scramble behind the scenes to try to get this thing. >> i want to bring you back in. it's a technicality because to those of us just watching, it's like stop the vote, but the reality is the first ballot is still technically open, correct, because they have not gavelled it, so if that's the case, how would they proceed to wrap this one up? would they call a vote of two people, would the clerk call this again? a vote could be changed?

could it go quickly? >> reporter: the shortest possible answer to that is that votes can be changed until the vote is called, so any member could go down into the well and tell the clerk they want to change their vote. i think in this particular circumstance, they would probably have to announce it out loud given that's the structure of this vote. this whole process is kind of the legislative equivalent of the week between christmas and new year's, nobody knows what day it is or what the rules are, whether you have to eat breakfast in the morning or coffee at midnight, when everybody is muddling through. there is no speaker of the house right now. there are technically not rules in the house right now. there's only the election of a speaker. so unless they choose to vote to do something else, like adjourn, which is really the only reasonable step that could be taken, they will just be in these votes over and over again. we're looking at a perhaps somewhat more chipper mike johnson coming back on to the floor with ralph norman coming behind him, talking to hakeem

jeffries. whatever was decided in the room is being communicated to democrats, whether to move to a second vote ore a break or attempt to move to a break or whether they're in agreement here to keep this open. that's the most interesting conversation happening in washington right now, happening right now without audio on your screen. >> yeah, that's why we're staying right on it, to see what the reaction is of these two. my executive producer aaron told me there was in that cloak room, speaker johnson actually congressman johnson right now technically speaking went in with thomas massie, ralph norman, those are the two votes he hopes to change, in addition to scott perry, so i said norman. i said thomas massie. ralph norman, and keith self. we know thomas massie is a definite no. he went in there and the kind of

thing that would have to be done, can you get a read if you're watching this as closely as we are, garrett, to see what the reaction is? do you think they will gavel this, and then take another break or start it back up again? >> it's hard to say. i mean, i just watched mike johnson shake hands with both ralph norman and keith self who walked off, it appears toward the front of the chamber. i'm trying to watch my monitor and the door to see if it's likely they're going to exit. you see henry there, the most conservative in the house. self and norman, we do not control the cameras, to the right of the screen, they're talking to the clerks, appear to be requesting paper from the clerk, that is the manner by which they would start the process of changing their vote. again, if you look at sort of the top right of your screen, you see self and norman with a couple of other members. looks like andy ogles who's not really a player in this

conversation, standing around them, having these discussions with the clerk. the only reason i can imagine they would be doing that is to change their vote. they have no other business with the clerk at this moment than that. again, speculation, but informed speculation that that may be what we're looking at right now. >> does it feel to you that people are returning to the house floor, those people who have left just by the wide shots we have seen, it feels like it's filling up a bit more. >> yeah, i'm watching some members start to come back down the hallway. elise stefanik walking behind me. victoria, several members coming back. you can't see it. the upper galleries are full with members' families. a lot of folks left the floor, if not the chamber to go upstairs and talk to their loved ones. they're able to keep close tabs on what was going on. the clerk is speaking. >> let's all take a listen.

>> house will be in order. >> mr. norman, johnson. mr. self is recorded. mr. self, johnson. self, johnson. [ cheers and applause ] rs and a

>> okay. that is it. mike johnson has been reelected speaker of the house, and garrett, we should say it was done on the first vote technically, barring a few hiccups along the way. but is that a point of pride for johnson? >> i'm sure it is. he and his allies were predicting that this would be possible, that they could get this done on the first vote, and i think it's important, not just for him, but house republicans and the republican party in general to show that they were able to do this. this is a party that obviously struggled controlling just one house of congress over the last two years, now they're able to step in with unified control of washington. they want to prove that they can govern, and so getting this done on the first vote, albeit through a bit of a tortured process, which i look forward to learning much more about what was going on behind the scenes,

will be a point of pride for johnson and these house republicans. >> mike, i want to bring you back into the conversation. mike ricci, tell me, what do you think was offered or listened to intently by mike johnson to get those two holdouts over the top, ralph norman and keith self? >> well, that would be the big question that garrett and others are asking is, you know, this was one of the issues two years ago, it wasn't immediately clear what deals kevin mccarthy did and didn't make. it could be as simple as suspension calendar was referenced earlier, more of an open amendments process, we'll consider a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. that's a popular one with conservatives. so, again, he can promise to get things to the floor, provide for consideration, maybe a more open process, maybe some, you know, more input in certain committees or certain, you know, bills. but what he says about that and

how transparent they are about what they just discussed is a big question that people are going to be asking him over the next 24 hours. >> we will move to our intrepid msnbc news reporters to get the answer to that. michael hardaway, we saw the exchange between mike johnson and hakeem jeffries, it seemed pleasant. these two are professionals, they know how to work together. what do you predict for their relationship going forward? >> well, they like each other. there's a healthy respect for the integrity of the other person. >> as donald trump seems to say, everybody pretty much does, do you find that to be the case? >> mike johnson seems to be a likable guy. hakeem jeffries, they have commonalities with families and religion, and i think they respect each other. from a democratic perspective, there's an interest in working together in a bipartisan way to get stuff done over the next two years, if it's reasonable for the american people. >> let's take a listen, everyone. >> has received 218.

[ cheers and applause ] applaus the honorable hakeem jeffries of the state of new york has received 215. [ s and applause ] ] and the honorable tom emmer of the state of minnesota has received one. [ cheers and applause ] [ cheers and applause

therefore, the honorable mike johnson of the state of louisiana having received a majority of the votes cast is dually elected speaker of the house of representatives for the 119th congress. h congress [ applause ] [ applause ] the clerk appoints the following committee to escort the speaker elect to the chair. the gentleman from louisiana, mr. scalise, the gentleman from new york, mr. jeffries, the gentleman from minnesota, mr. emer the gentlewoman ms. clark.

mr. uilar, the gentleman from north carolina, mr. hudson. the gentleman from california, mr. lou, the gentleman from oklahoma, mr. hern. the gentleman from colorado, mr. na goose. the gentlewoman from washington. the gentlewoman from indiana, the gentleman from new york, mr. morelly, the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr.and the memberf the louisiana delegation. mr. higgins, ms. letlow, mr. carter, and mr. fields. the committee will retire from the chamber to escort the speaker elect to the chair. to tr >> so to let all of you know what will happen now as indicated, speaker elect, not quite speaker of the house, mike

johnson, will go and deliver remarks. he will be sworn in by the dean of the house. then the speaker will be administering the oath to members. let's keep in mind that this is the beginning of the 119th congress, and it's off to quite a start, but there are new members among them there on the house floor who have yet to be sworn in for the first time ever, and of course no one has been sworn in to officially start the 119th congress but they were allowed to vote in this regard for speaker of the house. so that will be done by speaker johnson. so we're going to be watching for all of this. it is a bipartisan delegation, if you will, that will be escorting him there into the middle of the chamber, and that is where he will, again, deliver his remarks, and he will be sworn in there in the chair. a chair that he will hope to occupy for the next two years. we will see. it has been a rocky road. he will have a very slim majority there in the house. and of course there's discussion

about donald trump potentially, to use johnson's terminology earlier, poaching more republican members of the house of representatives for different positions within the trump administration. he was reported as saying to president-elect donald trump please stop taking from my crew. it's going to be hard for me to be able to govern here. you know, certainly they wouldn't be able to if there was a minority, so with a very very slim majority now, it is probably done with those that donald trump will want to take from the house body to be part of his incoming administration. we have sahil kapur with us. mike ricci, michael hardaway, jonathan capehart, and brandon buck as well. jonathan, to you, what do you make of all the drama, but actually can you congratulate the house for having done this on one vote? >> yes, actually, you can.

and in fact, i put here there's an asterisk, i believe, next to speaker johnson's victory, to my mind, simply because he had to delay the closing of the vote in order to get the votes needed to become the speaker. but i give him major credit for having the foresight to not gavel out the vote and do the strong arming he needed to do to get to the magic number of 218, which he got. but i think this is where the good news for the speaker probably ends because now he goes into leading a house majority that as we've been talking about since election day, and all morning long, he can only lose about one or two votes to get anything done without democratic help, and if he gets democratic help, votes from minority leader hakeem jeffries, there will be hell to pay for him, depending on what the votes are for with his

republican caucus. so i think the speaker should revel in this victory now. he's been in the job. he knows the hell that awaits him. there's one other person we should keep in mind here, and that's president-elect donald trump. he came out a few days expressing his support, however qualified, and however less enthusiastically than we have seen in the past in telling people the republicans in the house to vote for mike johnson for speaker and yet nine of them defied president-elect trump. three of them voted for other people. six opted not to vote the first time their names were called. and so what that says to me is that in the end, and speaker johnson knows the problem he has with his caucus, but in the end, soon to be president trump is going to have a problem with that caucus, especially when it comes to financial matters,

fiscal matters. we saw what happened when he interjected himself into the continuing resolution fight last month and saying something that republicans have been dead set against for generations. and that's making any kind of deal on the debt ceiling or as donald trump was saying, let's eliminate it completely. i will be fascinated to see if he brings that up again once he's president, and one, will republicans defy him? i bet they will. and i think another guest in the previous hour with andrea was talking about how they look forward to seeing what democrats do in that situation. so while, you know, all attention is on the problems and the avails of mike johnson being reelected speaker of the house, we should also keep our attention on what it means for the trump agenda come january 20th. >> yeah, absolutely. brendan buck, i would like to

bring you in the conversation. jonathan makes a good point that it was wise of mike johnson not to gavel the first vote. he had an inclination that he might be able to get those two, ralph norman and keith self to come around to vote for him. he was successful. he did it. but to what end? how much do you think they just ran out of time because they had to begin today at noon with this process? do you suspect he had an inclination that they were very close, and he could probably do a cloak room chat with them, were they not to be pleased enough to vote for him on the first go around, and what do you expect that might have entailed? what do you think it is they will have wanted? >> i'll say this, when the vote, the original vote finished and there were only three of them, i think everybody at that point knew, mike johnson was going to be speaker of the house again, and it was only a matter of

time. when kevin mccarthy lost on the first ballot, he lost 19. that ultimately became 20 on the second ballot. that was a lot of people, and they had a lot of safety in numbers. those three folks were very isolated. thomas massie was never going to get there. those other two, they understood they were on a bit of an island, and i imagine the rest of the members in the chamber were perfectly happy to let the vote stay open if it meant they were going to resolve this and not going through another hour plus round of everybody shouting their name. they wanted to give them the time to work it out. jonathan makes very important points. i think all of this frankly was about sending a signal to the speaker. i think we know what that signal is, that this is going to be a tough road ahead but the speaker himself sent a powerful signal back today, he is someone who is motivated and is going to fight back and not themselves to be pushed around.

he demonstrated, i think, a pretty impressive display of politics within the conference here. we don't know exactly what if anything he had to promise, but the fact that he was able to keep that number really low, he was clearly working the phone. he was using his relationship with donald trump, what promises he had to make to these two, i think the big one that i'm curious about, and i think we may know this if it happened, if he was able to get through this without changing the threshold for the motion to vacate, which is how many people it requires to trigger a vote to remove the speaker, obviously kevin mccarthy had that threshold at just a single member, and that was one of the concessions he had to make to keep the job. mike johnson was able to elevate that threshold to nine members being required to vote to remove the speaker. that is a big buffer for him to be able to govern, and if he was able to preserve that deal and not trade that away as part of

this, i think that is very helpful for him. again, a very impressive display of politics within the conference. mike johnson telling everybody that he's willing to fight, and hekns what he's doing more than perhaps people give him credit for. at the same time, these members have been clear themselves that there is nine of them, at least folks who voted somebody else, and who voted, didn't vote the first time around that they are perhaps willing to go after him if he does something that they don't care for. >> yeah, absolutely. garrett haake, i understand you've spoken with dusty johnson, again, as you've pointed out earlier, no relation to mike johnson, but one of his allies, what do you glean from that conversation? >> a couple of things. most critically, he was clear on the point, he said there were no specific deals or promises made to these two members to get them to change their votes, while they were all in the room together, off the floor. all that was discussed was their

commitment to working on donald trump and the agenda: and they would work together as a team. no committee seats, no specific, you know, votes on bill x, nothing of the sort, as he says, a person in the room as those conversations happened. he was a little coy when i asked him about the role donald trump played in this, saying only that he was very helpful but not specifically saying whether or not he had talked to the holdouts during the period that the vote was open, and he was clear on the point that we have been alluding to over the last hour, how important this moment is for the republican party. they are able to show as they come in here to take unified control of washington for the first time since 2017, that they can do something with that control, they can walk and chew gum at the same time, that they can govern effectively. he believes they are able to put a down payment, if you will, on that today, by getting the speaker elected on technically the first ballot. >> yeah, i'm curious, garrett, your interpretation of the level

of support from donald trump from mike johnson, and i ask because we saw mike johnson make several pilgrimages down to mar-a-lago, speak with donald trump. we know they would talk on the phone, but it took donald trump quite some time to come around. he only cast his support publicly for johnson, what was it, about a week ago or so? . so there was a period of limbo, and would you describe the support by donald trump as being tepid, as being greater than that, less than that? >> i think i would characterize it a little bit differently. first, i would say, i think mike johnson has done a very good job of managing donald trump and his expectations. he has spent a ton of time going back and forth to mar-a-lago. he has spent a ton of time on the phone with donald trump. he's spent a lot of time campaigning for donald trump and supporting donald trump's candidates. remember, mike johnson was with donald trump the day of the

second assassination attempt during the presidential campaign. he has kept donald trump close, understanding that the support of donald trump would be necessary for him to maintain the gavel, but probably not sufficient to do it on its own. as for trump, i think he's run hot and cold on mike johnson. he has at times been very supportive of johnson and of the work that johnson has been able to do with a small majority. he has also been quite frustrated with him. i spoke with donald trump the week before christmas when the whole debate was going on about the debt ceiling, and he was very frustrated with johnson, not being able to do that, and trump and his allies made clear that they thought they had assurances, they thought johnson understood that was a priority for trump. there was at least in that moment, looked like trump might have turned on johnson . he worked diligently to maintain

the relationship to get back to a place where trump would reaffirm his support for him. stylistically, they could not be more different. a lifelong republican from deep south louisiana, a very religious man, the other donald trump, a one-time democrat and new york city playboy. they are very different. they have chosen to work together, and now they're on this ride together. >> they are. let's take a listen, everyone. we've heard the gavel. >> mr. clark, speaker elect, mike johnson from the state of louisiana. [ cheers and applause ] applaus

>> mike , if you could elaborat on that, as the speaker elect makes his way down to the chair. with nine who could potentially oust him from his job, that would all be compromise to republicans, that's correct, because of the rule that was put in place when nancy pelosi was speaker of the house, that's correct? >> yeah, now, again, and, you know, it's like could be a different number. that's the number they have set. this doesn't sound like a big number, but a lot of people to get down there to file such a resolution. this was matt gaetz in 2023. but, you know, this is obviously starting with norman and self, obviously that group of members that we're watching, that five to seven to ten to see what

they're saying about the speaker, and also what they're saying to the president and his team. remember, that's a big faction now. you think about this as the moderates and conservatives, now mike has this sort of third action he's going to watch, which is the president and his team. they're in the room. in these conference meetings, when they're getting together. what are the president, his team hearing from these about what the speaker is or isn't doing. he's not keeping his promises, you know, so he's absolutely on the clock here, no question. >> let's bring in jake sherman. we have you for a short while here before the speaker elect speaks. of course "punchbowl news" cofounder, and msnbc political contributor. jake, just give me your takeaway overall of what we have seen happen thus far today and your expectations for what happens next. >> yeah, this is a big victory for johnson. you've got to give it to him, with that, he has been an embattled speaker, there's no question he had a tough run at it in a very narrow house majority, winning this on the

first ballot, and we just reported, by the way, that donald trump weighed in with keith self and ralph norman who voted against johnson or voted for other people besides johnson. so, listen, johnson is going to enter this congress with a paper thin majority. we saw this today. he has a massive agenda to get through, including a whole host of things that donald trump promised on the campaign trail. but people doubted him, and winning on the first ballot, given everything that he is facing, again, a very thin majority, a very divided republican conference, between the mainstream republicans and some of the, you know, more hard line conservative republicans is a huge feat and a huge boost for johnson going into this congress. >> yeah, and only because i had to keep my eyes on the screen and listen as intently as i could, i wasn't able to read "punchbowl" if you put out a flash there.

did donald trump actually speak on the phone with ralph norman and keith self in that cloak room, is that what happened? . >> i don't know what happened, they were in the one of the rooms off the house floor. >> speaker johnson, speaker emerita pelosi, it's great to see you back in the chamber. [ cheers and applause ] whip clark, chairman aguilar, thank you for your kind and generous words of nomination. to my colleagues in government, new members of congress, families, friends, all of those assembled. it's a high honor and a distinct privilege to welcome you to the people people's house and the 119th congress. the bible teach us in

ecclesiastes, the third chapter, first verse, that for everything, there is a season and a time for every matter under heaven. in every democracy, there's a time to campaign and a time to govern. the election is over, this is a new congress. the american people need us as their elected representatives in this season to put down our partisan swords and pick up bipartisan cloud shares. it's time for us to come together, not as democrats or republicans but as americans to get things done for the people. in that spirit, house democrats will work hard to find bipartisan common ground with

our republican colleagues and the incoming administration on any issue. whenever and wherever possible, in order to make life better for every day americans. for far too long in this country, the cost of living has gone up, but the size of the middle class has come down. housing costs are too high. grocery costs are too high. child care costs are too high. insurance costs are too high. utility costs are too high. america is too expensive. there are far too many people in this great country who for decades have been struggling to live paycheck to paycheck. that is not acceptable in the

wealthiest country in the history of the world. [ applause ] we need to build an affordable economy for hard working american taxpayers and we need to build it now. it's time for us to come together and finally lower the high cost of living in the united states of america once and for all. [ applause ] and we will work with anyone of any party to get that done. we will work with anyone to secure our borders and we will work with anyone to fix our broken immigration system in a comprehensive and bipartisan manner. [ cheers and applause ] at the same period of time, at

the same period of time, we will push back against far right extremism, whenever necessary. so let me be clear, social security and medicare are not entitlement programs. they are earned benefits. hard working american taxpayers pay to social security and medicare every day, every week, every month, every year throughout their entire adult life. they earn those benefits, worked hard for those benefits, and deserve those benefits. so as democrats our promise to the american people is that we will fight hard to make sure that no one in this town takes away social security or medicare from the american people. not now, not ever.

no means never. no means never opposition is that it is not acceptable to cut social security, cut medicare, cut medicaid, cut veterans benefits, or cut nutritional assistance from children and families in order to pay for massive tax breaks for billionaires and wealthy corporations. house democrats will fight hard to protect working class americans and the things that matter to them. not the wealthy, the well off and the well connected. keep your hands off social security and medicare. [ cheers and applause ] . over the last four years, it's

been a great honor for us to work alongside president joe biden and vice president kamala harris whose administration rescued the economy from a once-in-a-century pandemic. delivered historic infrastructure investments, created more than 15 million good paying jobs, enacted common sense gun safety legislation for the first time in 30 years, provided life sustaining health insurance to veterans suffering from toxic exposure. championed the largest investment in combatting the climate crisis in the history of the world which we will defend and brought down the high price of life saving prescription drugs for millions of americans. thank you, president biden and vice president harris, for your powerful, principled and

purposeful public service. thank you. [ applause ] two months ago, the american people elected donald trump as the 47th president of the united states of america. [ applause ] america [ applause ] thank you for that very generous applause. thank you for that very generous applause it's okay. there are no election deniers on our side of the aisle. you see [ applause ] one should love america. one should love america when you win and when you lose.

that's the patriotic thing to do, and that's the america that house democrats will fight hard to preserve because we love this country. [ applause ] america is bigger than any one campaign, any one election, or any one individual. america, the land of the free and the home of the brave. let us never forget that our country is free, not simply because we are strong. america is strong because we are free. [ applause ] that freedom is now under assault. there are some in this country who apparently believe that the freedom of economic opportunity that made them wealthy should not apply to everyone else. our message to that crowd is

simple. democrats will never abandon the long walk toward freedom. we will fight hard to defend the freedom of opportunity that makes the american dream possible. we will fight hard for the freedom to vote and to fight for a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. we will fight for the freedom to organize and join a union of your choice. [ applause ] we will fight to defend the free enterprise system but work hard to make sure that it actually works for working class americans. and we will always defend a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive health care decisions. america promises one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. that's the america house

democrats will fight hard to preserve. god bless you, god bless the house of representatives, may god continue to bless the united states of america. [ cheers and applause ] it is now my responsibility to present the gavel to the gentleman from the great state of louisiana. the son of a firefighter, a god-fearing man, a husband, and a loving father of four. the 56th speaker of the united states house of representatives, the honorable mike johnson.

[ cheers and applause ] >> thank you. thank you. thank you so much. thank you, leader jeffries, all of our treasured colleagues here in the house. i'm grateful for this nomination. i'm grateful for this election, for the confidence this chamber has placed in me. it is the great honor of my life to serve this body with all of you. of course these are difficult days in our home state of louisiana where i come from, we all know about the terrorist attack in new orleans, and it's really shaken our state. people are reeling from that attack. it took the lives of 14 innocent

people and it injured dozens more. and i wanted to begin appropriately today, if we could, i would ask you all to join me in a moment of silence for the victims of this horrific act. horrific act. thank you. thank you for that. i believe in giving honor where honor is due, and all of us do well to honor our spouses. my wife happens to be here this time. she didn't make it last time. it happened a little sudden. kelly, would you stand up up here in the gallery. thank you. [ cheers and applause ] nd appla and we have our four children here, hannah, abby, jack and

will, will you all stand up, just really quickly. come on. [ applause ] [ applause ] i wanted to do that. all of us recognize that there are no perks to being a congressman's kid, right, it's all sacrifice, and our spouses put up with so much, endless hours in travel, and all the responsibilities upon us and we're good to remind them how important they are to us and how we could not do the job without them, so it's appropriate for all of us to do that. thank you. thank you, guys. [ applause ] thank you, guys. [ applause ] this is a momentous time in the history of our nation, it really is. and as members of the 119th congress, we are stewards of the great american revolution that began almost exactly now 250 years ago, 1775 and 1776. it will fall at the time of this congress, the great anniversary, and in these two and a half

centuries we have been reminded repeatedly that freedom is never free. and we have stood tall as the greatest nation on the face of the earth. it is without debate we are the freest, the most powerful, the most benevolent nation that has ever been in the history of the world. it's not by happenstance. we are the ones who settled the west. we are the ones who ended slavery, who laid the transcontinental railroad, who gave women the right to vote, who won two world wars, who landed on the moon, and who won the cold war. throughout our history, we have done what no one thought was possible. and still, at 250 years old, our nation is actually a young nation. this past fall, i had an opportunity to go to the g7 speaker's meeting. it was held in italy. it's the only international trip i took as speaker over the last 14 months because i didn't have time to do it. it was a quick three-day jaunt, and meat with my colleagues, the

speakers of the other parliaments, the great governments around the world, and we talked about that, how really special america is, how unique we are and our place on the globe, and how important it is for us to maintain that. and as i talked to these colleagues from around the world, i thought our closest allies, you know, who recognize how important we are, how important this body, this house is, i thought about how is it that such a young country has become so exceptional, so singular in its importance that today stands as the world's leader in liberty and the economy and culture. 100 years ago president calvin coolidge answered that in his inaugural address, march one hundred years ago, he said this, we best serve our own country and most successfully discharge our obligations to humanity by continuing to be openly and

candidly intensely and inscrupulously american. i love that. i love that. that's right. that's an applause line. [ applause ] today our nation is the envy of the world, why? because we have been marked by a spirit and a people who are explicitly that. we are explicitly american. we don't try to be like other nations and we recognize that a strong america is good for the entire world. and everybody around the globe knows that. that's right. [ applause ] we also recognize that the core principles that made america what we are must still be preserved today. the principles, i call them the seven core principles of american conservatism, but it's really the seven core principles of the nation itself, individual freedom, limited government, the rule of law, peace through strength, fiscal responsibility,

free markets, human dignity. these are the ingredients, the things that made us who we are. and in america, we know that human flourishing is best achieved by adherence to time tested truths. we could list a number of those simple truths. here's a couple. it's better to give a hand up than a hand out. the innovation thrives when bureaucracy dies. [ applause ]. the simple truth that it is parents and families and not administrators that must be in charge of their children's education. the path of prosperity has long been paved with policies that put america and americans first. and that is what we will champion in the 119th congress. [ applause ] h congress

[ applause ] we have a mandate, and that was shown in the election cycle, that people want an america first agenda. they do. [ applause ]. sadly, for the past four years of divided government, too many politicians in washington have done the opposite. open borders and over regulation have destroyed our cities and stifled innovation. inflation and weak leaderships have left americans poorer and they have placed our country in a perilous position. that's right. but in recent months, we have witnessed something happening, something that's really remarkable. a political moment in our modern history, a ground swell of americans from every state, race and religion who now demand that we put the interest of americans first again. and we will. and we will. we will.

this is a powerful new coalition of our country. it's a coalition that insists that we purge the policies of america last and we bury them in the graveyard of history's mistakes, because it was a big mistake. to that end, this congress will renounce the status quo and we will listen to the voices of the people. we will act quickly, and we will start by defending our nation's borders, that's the number one priority. yes. in coordination with president trump, this congress will give our border and immigration enforcement agents the resources that they need to do their job. we will secure the border, we will deport dangerous criminal, illegal aliens and finally finish building the border wall.

[ applause ] you said you'd work with us on that, hakeem, i'm counting on it. after four years of high inflation, we have a big agenda, we have a lot to do, and we can do it in a bipartisan fashion. we can fight high inflation, and we must. we'll give relief to americans, and we'll extend the trump tax cuts. [ applause ] we're going to protect our industries from one-sided trade deals, and we're going to bring overseas investments back to america's shores. that's right. we'll defeat the harmful effects of inflation, and we'll make life affordable again for america's hard working people. . as leaders of a nation with vast natural resources that god has

blessed us with, it is our duty to restore america's energy dominance, and that's what we'll do. we'll do we have to apply common sense. we have to stop the attacks on natural gas. pass legislation to eliminate the green new deal. that funding. that funding. we're going to expedite new drilling permits, we're going to save the jobs of our auto manufacturers and we're going to do that by ending the ridiculous ev mandates. mandates. and as heirs to the american revolution and the descendants

of patriots who defy tyranny, in the coming months, we are going to pass legislation to roll back the totalitarian fourth branch of government, known as the administrative state. state we're going to drastically cut back the size and scope of government. we're going to return the power back to the people. and in coordination with president trump and his administration, we are going to create a leaner, faster, and more efficient federal work force, we need to do that. our people do not deserve to be ruled by millions of bureaucrats they have never voted for, never met, and can never hold accountable. they deserve a government that is led by those they have elected to lead. that is how article i is

supposed to work. that was the idea of the congress, and we will return to that principle. the american people have called on us to reject business as usual and throw out the status quo. we must and we will heed their call. [ applause ] ir call [ applause ] this is especially important as it comes to our nation's military. for too long, the washington establishment has sought to appease and accommodate our nation's adversaries, they tried to replace our military warriors with social justice warriors, it does not work. while we are the most powerful force in the history of the world by god's grace, the same establishment has eroded the capacities of our army and navy and diminished the readiness of our air force. we have to put an end to this madness. [ applause ] s madness. [ applause ]

my friends and my colleagues, i think we should all unite in this idea. it is time now to reinstate fear in our enemies, refocus our mission on lethality, and realign our commitment to peace through strength, right now. we have to prioritize the things that matter most. we have to make adequate investments in defense. this is the most dangerous moment since world war ii, and everyone around the world is looking to america, and looking to this body to ensure that we maintain the peace. what we're proposing now is just simply as president trump likes to say, a return to common sense, and he's exactly right. that message resonated across the country. i am very thankful, personally, that this body is filled with men and women who are committed to that change, to return to common sense. we can do this together.

we should. it is our responsibility to do so. when i first took this gavel, many of you heard me say that i don't believe in luck or consequence. i believe in the idea of providence. this morning, i participated with many of you early this morning, and the 119th congress interfaith prayer service. it was held at st. peter's catholic church. many of you were there. it was a bipartisan service, which was great. my good friend hakeem jeffries began by reading the old testament, deuteronomy 10, and i was asked to provide a prayer for the nation. i offered one that is quite familiar to historians and probably many of us. it said right here in the program, it said under my name, it is said each day of his eight years of the presidency and every day thereafter until his death president thomas jefferson recited this prayer. i wanted to share it with you here at the end of my remarks, not as a prayer per se right now but really as a reminder of what

our third president and the primary author of the declaration of independence thought was so important that it should be a daily recitation. let me just read you that prayer. it goes like this. thomas jefferson's prayer for the nation, it's entitled. almighty god who's given us this good land for our heritage, we humbly beseech thee that we may always prove ourselves that people mindful of our favor and glad to do thy will. bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning and pure manners, save us from violence, discord, and confusion. from pride and arrogance and from every evil way. defend our liberties and fashion into one united people, the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongue. endow with their spirit of wisdom those whom in thy name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be

justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to thy law, we may show forth thy praise among the nations of the earth. in time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in thee to fail in which we ask through jesus christ our lord amen. that was thomas jefferson's prayer. [ applause ] yeah. suffer not our trust in need of fail. we will not fail. we cannot fail. we are all in this together. our nation is counting on us to band together and solve these problems and get this done. i have said before that i believe god has elevated each one of you, this is my belief, to your positions of leadership, and it's an act of providence that you have all been placed in your specific roles in this specific moment at this historic time, at the 250 year inflection point of the greatest nation in the history of the world.

it is no small thing. we're also witnesses to the providence that spared our incoming president, president trump from the assassin's bullet, remarkable as that was, and to the new coalition of americans that has risen from every creed, color, and cul-de-sac who want us to put america first. our people are asking for a thriving economy and rebuilt middle class and strong borders and a strong military, and we can deliver that. these objectives and these aims don't have an r or a d behind them. they have a usa. that's what we're about. [ applause ] that's what we're about. [ applause ] in just a few moments, we're all going to take an oath. it is the same one oath for one nation and under the banner of one great american flag. this is an opportunity for us to protect our shared american heritage, to maintain the

conditions needed for self-government, and to defend what hakeem said earlier, the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. working together, we have the potential to be one of the most consequential congresses in the history of this great nation so long as we work together, we do the right thing, and we put america first. as we think about all we've accomplished in the past 250 years, we can only imagine what life will be like 250 years from now. whatever the future may look like, if we do our jobs now, we can help ensure that our civic virtues will endure, that this nation will still be an example to all the world for its greatness and its example of self-government. and that in spite of our great challenges and even our disagreements and healthy debates, this extraordinary institution, the people's house, will still be standing strong. thank you all so much and god bless america. [ applause ] god bless america. [ applause ]

so as the sequence of events requires, i am now ready to take the oath of office. i ask the dean of the house of representatives, the honorable harold rogers of kentucky, to administer the oath. >> mr. speaker, number one, congratulations on your election. when our founding fathers -- >> hold just a second, deen, we don't have the mic on yet. >> hello, test. today we celebrate our shared american self rule. when our founding fathers

rejected calls for an american king and chose a bold and innovative government of self rule, it was met by opposition, understandably by the world's kings. they said you can't govern yourself. you need a king to direct the country. they said it's only a dream, self rule. the founding fathers said you're right, it's the american dream, and thus our founders said that we should move on our own with our own leadership. the speaker of the house is the critical protector and promoter of self rule. the keeper of the dream, if you will. and we've elected this man from louisiana to carry on our bold

experiment in democracy and self rule. so, sir, if you're ready to assume this awesome responsibility, please raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear that you will support and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, that you take this obligation freely, that you take this obligation without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion. and that you will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which you're about to enter so help you god. >> i do. >> congratulations, mr. speaker. .

thank you. you may as well remain standing because according to precedent, the chair will swear in the members elect en masse. the members elect will all rise. and the chair will now administer the oath of office. will you raise your right hand? do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will support and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign and domestic, that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, that you take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion and that you will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which you're about to enter so help you god. >> i do. >> congratulations, you are now members of the 119th congress. [ applause ] [ applause ]

. >> it is official, everyone, the 119th congress has been sworn in. of course previously mike johnson was reelected speaker of the house. there was a little bit of drama,

some last minute vote switching, notably from two house members, ralph norman and keith self. at first it appeared he was on track to losing the first round after three gop defections, that other one being thomas massie who was very colorful in his description of why he would never vote for speaker johnson a second time. in a short amount of time, the conversations happened, some in a cloak room and it changed that you are mind. there's also reporting by "punchbowl news" that president trump got involved. we don't know specifically at which point, but we are told, according to "punchbowl news" that he spoke with both representatives norman and self. they changed their votes, it became official. so what that means is the house can now go about their business and that will include the certification of donald trump's election victory this coming monday. it will also conclude any ability for the house to be in session over the weekend to get through a house speaker vote. so they come back to us today

and then they'll be back on monday, and again, they will be certifying the election of donald trump. joining us now from the capitol, we have nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. we have "washington post" congressional reporter, mary anna sotomayor, and msnbc political analyst, and former press secretary to john boehner, that's brendan buck, and former congressman, denver riggleman. all friends to us. thank you very much for joining us. mike johnson made it, garrett. clear he was not going to make any deals, so how did he get the votes he needed? >> reporter: sounded like he had significant help from donald trump. keith self, one of the last republicans from texas had several conversations -- >> garrett, do me a favor, plug in your mic. i'm sorry, you're sounding very hollow, due to all the noise behind you. >> reporter: how about now in is

that better? >> much better. thank you so much. we've got mics on mics on mics. here it was. it sound like donald trump played a key role here in getting these two holdouts over the finish line, at least that's the story as keith self tells it. he said he had multiple conversations with the president-elect today, and that that was involved, if not pivotal in getting him to a yes. ralph norman has yet to tell his side of the story. i'm anxious to see him walk down the hallway in the next few minutes. i talked to dusty johnson in the room where the conversations happened, and he said, you know, sort of the main point here was just trying to make sure that everyone was on the same page and that republicans understand they do have the same goals. now, for both norman and self, the top of the list of goals is sort of structural, making sure voices like theirs, particularly in the case of self, fairly junior members can be heard and considered, and the work around cutting spending can be brought to the forefront. obviously that's a big priority of the president-elect as well

with that doge commission, involving elon musk. but, johnson's allies are insistent he gave no specific commitments, other than to say yes, we're all on the same team, we all have the same goals, and let's get started. >> i know, garrett, i see you looking out of the corner of your eye. please do keep an eye if you get keith self, i know you're after him. you're welcome to come back to the camera and do a live interview. denver riggleman, are you surprised johnson was able to avoid a prolonged drama, or did this constitute a drama in your mind, given the ength of time it took to pass on the last vote. >> thank you for having me. it's indicative that donald trump owns the party. i was talking to another former friend of mine, and it's a bit messy. you know the only reason mike johnson is up there because of the president. and what's going to happen over the next six to nine months, this is no room to breathe

congress because you're probably going to have a democratic congress in '26. how are they going to do this? you know, when everybody was applauding when they got sworn in, i have been there, alex, as you know, when that happened, i started to laugh a little bit, because it's almost like they're applauding their own misery and the torture chamber the next two years in the house. i'm not that surprised. there were some individuals that like to drink their own bath water and vote for what they think their conscience or id logs were going to vote that way. you can't take a call on the floor. that's why they went into the annex there, and donald trump told them, hey, get in line. and that's really what happened today. >> give me a sense because you have been there, what is this like for members of congress being sworn in let's say for the first time? i mean, there's certainly got to be a lot of pride but a certain amount of trepidation because they have been elected to do job, and it may be that congress will not go along to allow them to make good on the promises

they make when they're campaigning. >> you know, alex, you lose your idealistic streak in about seven minutes. yeah, it's very very quick. and so when you're going through the first days, getting your committee assignments, you're sort of overwhelmed, you know the importance of your job, but you start to see the people around you, it's true, you're like, how did they get here, they might be thinking that about you too. what you're seeing now, the 119th is a system not ready for the 21st century. there's so much corruption, not just with quid pro quo and pandering, there's a rot. and you're seeing that with our debt and deficit. those members sitting there right now, what do you do with such a slim majority. if you see something good happening, are you going to vote with mike johnson, when he's getting his direction from trump. i think this is going to be one of the most raucous, do nothing, awful congresses we have seen in a long time because i do believe that trump does run the party,

and i think his article i powers are going to be bowing to the article ii side. there's a rot going on that i don't know how you get out of it. >> give me a sense of the answer to the question you posed. if you have a democrat who sees something good being done on the other side of the aisle, do they vote to support it? >> you know, i remember, i was talking to a couple of people in there when i first started. you can never support a democrat no matter what. you know what happened to me because i did on some legislation, and officiated a same sex wedding, and if you get out of the current now, three congresses later, i think you're so far out of the current, even on the democratic side, how do you vote. what are you going to do back in your district, you supported donald trump, it's not supporting legislation for the american people. i do think there's got to be a third way at some point. right now, with such a slim majority, any democrat that crosses the stream, they could be primaried. any republican that crosses the stream is going to be primaried. you have a narrow slim majority

for the gop. trump thinks he has a mandate. i don't think he does. i think what you're seeing in congress is complete confusion and really a foundational issue where you have a two-party system so broken with media, the way they message, and the fact is you have the least talented executive appointees ever and how is that possibly going to flow down to the congress. i think it's going to be unbelievable to watch, especially the first six months. >> donald trump has touted mike johnson's likability. how important is likability? you have heard the phrase it's better to be loved versus feared or better to be feared versus loved, i'm curious how somebody who's pretty much liked by most members is able to get through the agenda, what the challenges are for that. does it make it easier? >> you know what, i think there's a confusion in terms, i think liked and malleable got mixed up here. but i do think, yeah, mike's

very malleable. right? he's still new to the job. he is going to do exactly what donald trump says to do for that agenda, but being liked is great. listen, i know mike john skon, and -- johnson, and he is a likable human being. treats people with respect. there's something about him you like when you're around him, and it really is something that can captivate certain types of individuals. for people looking at this realistically, his job is to govern, is to push through legislation. we really have a tough time to separate powers right now. i don't think it's likable. it's malleability. mike johnson might be one of the most malleable speakers we have had even though he's also liked. >> okay. i would like everyone to stay put because we have florida representative, byron donalds joining us right now, of course a republican of florida. it's good to see you here. before i get into some structural questions about what's going to happen in the house, were you surprised to hear your named called out by your texas fellow republican keith self?

did you expect that? did you have any inclination? >> i was surprised, didn't expect it. listen, on capitol hill, you learn to expect the unexpected. things happen really fast here. but at the end of the day, mike johnson was able to close this deal, get it secured. he's speaker of the house. now we get to work. >> when you say you were surprised, did you think, oh, heck no, we can't go there. i'm just curious what that really felt like, wait, what? >> that was basically my response, i'm not going to go into exactly what i said but that was sically my response. i'm glad that's over. a major agenda is in front of us, and i was glad to hear from leader jeffries, the democrats were committed to wanting to secure our border once and for all, if they're serious about that, they will have willing partners with republicans. if it's just talking points or speeches and they're not serious, we will get the job done without the democrat party. >> but at the beginning of

something, any kind of relationship, there is a sense of idealism, you may have heard my friend and former congressman denver riggleman say that that level of idealism tends to dissipate within about seven minutes of being elected in congress or sworn in, we shall say. how much does idealism have to reign supreme and can members stick to it? >> i think so, first of all, it's not about idealism, it's about common sense. we won a major election, and we're going to set it right. it's not about ideology, commons says you secure your border. common sense says you stabilize your currency. common sense says you live with peace through strength at the center of your foreign policy. that's what we're going to restore. very simple. >> >> do you have a sense of how involved president-elect donald

trump was in swaying the minds of two of those three holdouts? >> as i understand it, the president was involved. i think it speaks to his ability to talk directly with members for them to kind of take a step back and look at everything that needs to be accomplished. what we're going into right now is with now president trump going to be inaugurated, frankly in a little over a week and a half, is you're going to see something in washington you probably haven't seen before. you have a chief executive who clearly knows what needs to occur in that job, and also you have a congress, both house and senate, that is committed to that agenda. so i anticipate we're going to move very very fast. we're going to be working with president trump and his white house team here in the house as well as the senate in order to get that accomplished. >> let me ask you about eleven of your colleagues that are in the house freedom caucus. they have put out a letter saying that they voted for mike johnson despite their sincere reservations regarding the speaker's track record over the

last 15 months. what do you think about their concerns? >> i think their concerns are some that are shared with other members in the conference. let's be transparent about that. but at the end of the day, everybody is going to be judged on where they go forward from here. mike johnson, and frankly every other member of congress, we all have a responsibility to really put aside even some of the things we might have campaigned on at some point in our political careers to get done the agenda set forth by donald trump in his run to the white house. so i get the letter, makes sense, there are of course reservations. it happens all the time with multiple people around this place. at the end of the day, we're going to come together, work hard, and achieve something for the american people. >> the motion to vacate route, they are about to change, which can make it harder to oust a speaker like what we saw happen to kevin mccarthy. it will take nine gop votes. after seeing a few holdouts today, they have gotten in line, is it possible that we'll see a

motion to vacate in the near future if speaker johnson can't keep everyone happy? >> i don't think so. we have a long way to go. what we're focused on is the agenda, and you have members who are ready to get to work. we have a lot of new freshman members, newly sworn in, happy for them. they're excited. they want to get to work. we're going to be a congress focused on the actual policy we put out. not on potential motions or privileged resolutions or anything like that. our agenda is going to be our focus. that's what we're going to be locked in for the next several months. >> last question is this, what will speaker johnson's first major test be as he navigates through this new congress. >> debt ceiling. we have a responsibility to deal with it. we're going to have to manage that process. it's going to be a challenge, but at the end of the day, we're going to get it done. >> congressman byron donalds who did get a vote today, much to his surprise. i want to thank you very much for the conversation. thanks for joining us. >> thank you.

i'm back again with denver riggleman, denver and brendan buck. brendan, that last question that i asked of the congressman wla do you see as being the first big hurdle for mike johnson? >> yeah, congressman donalds obviously identifying the debt ceiling, that's probably not likely to come up until the middle of the year. before that they have a government funding deadline in march where they're going to have to find the votes to keep the government open and theoretically fund the entire thing for the rest of the year. now, republicans have shown time and time again in just a few weeks ago that they can't do that on their own. so right there, right off the bat, you're going to have a situation where you either have a government shut down, which is obviously terrible for republicans and the incoming president or you're having to negotiate with democrats, and that is what so many of these republicans who have been holding out have been

complaining about, the fact that johnson has turned to democrats several times. there's no avoiding that. that's just the reality of governing, and that's, i think, why we keep having this cycle of problems with speakers. there are certain things you have to do, and you simply can't avoid, but especially when there are never going to be 218 votes to do something as the republican party. the house is a major institution. if you don't have 218 votes, you don't have anything. the members that criticize speakers, no matter who the speaker is the same ones who don't put up 218 votes so you're forced to negotiate with democrats. it's going to happen in march, in the summer when they do the debt limit. it's not a surprise that that letter put out by the freedom caucus members has more than those nine necessary to remove him. they're trying to send a signal that you don't do those things or we're coming after you, but there is no avoiding some of those things, so we're going to,

you know, this is all going to come to a head at some point soon. but what i do want to say is i think members and all of us realize today that these folks aren't just puarnd mike johnson at this point. this is not just mike johnson. there is a trump administration behind him at the same time, and the members who voted against him learned that very quickly. you can say that that is bowing to donald trump, but also just the reality of the politics, and that's going to be very helpful to mike johnson in having a strong partnership between the speaker and the president. is it necessary ingredient for any legislative agenda. >> so, denver, before you have to go, i want to ask you, with hindsight as you reflect not only on your time in congress but in the years since, you said that the system is broken, and now on the heels of the 118th congress, which was the let's see productive congress legislatively in decades, how does this get fixed? >> how does the work on behalf of the american public continue

to happen over the partisan politics and self-preservation that is sometimes, if not all the time, tantamount to being the priority of individual members? >> you know, there's such a fundamental issue, when i was in the 116th, and your question is so brilliant, and why i'm doing some of the things i'm doing right now, right, which i'm, you know, started an explore tear committee to run as an independent statewide in virginia. does that even work, can you even do it? are the parties so entrenched there's no way out of this tribalistic thing. by background is counter terrorism, radicalization, air force intelligence through my companies, and i don't know how you change the media ecosystem. i think it's the fact that you're able to paint people any way you want to. the fact is people with social media but with alternate media, you can migrate to anywhere you want to go for confirmation bias on what you're looking at. when you see the money in politics and everything i went

through in hindsight, what i have seen the last three cycles, i start to get a little bit, you know, concerned about what we're going to do with the foundational portion of how this government works. you go back to george washington who learned about tribalism in politics, learned about the party systems, at some point, somebody has to go over the wall. they have to breach the wall, and they have to say we need a third way or a better way of doing things or somebody who can balance out both parties, honestly, because they're going to vote the way they're going to vote based on really money and politics, and where it's going. i don't know how you make it better for the people with the type of money and the way the communications are running, and i think it is up to us, right, alex, brendan when he's talking about a way of doing business. it's up to people like me to tell the truth about what's going on. the media is going to be more important now over the next two cycles than ever before in the american republic, and i think it's that kind of reporting, what we're talking about today,

having truth, getting away from disinformation. i think that's the way to go. is it easy? i don't know. but i think there has to be another way of doing business to balance out both parties because i think this is a cold war construct. i don't think that works in the 21st century. >> former congressman denver riggleman. denver is a good friend of mine and frequent guest on my show, and i think a lot of you all just heard wi. thank you so much. brendan is also a frequent guest on my show. i'm going to ask him to stick around as we're keeping an eye on the host and history being made on the senate side adds john thune steps up, along with some tricky cabinet con firmatin hearings. stay right there. stay right thee . in the morning, he flies up the stairs and hops up on my bed. in the past, he would not have been able to do any of those things. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50.

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try new robitussin soft chews. packed with the power of robitussin... in every bite. easy to take cough relief, anywhere. chew on relief, chew on a ♪ robitussin ♪ 53 past, quietly, and without even a whisper of controversial fanfare, another big leadership role is filled in congress today. senator john thune's name plate was placed on the door for the senate republican leader suite this morning. back with me, we have nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake and msnbc political analyst brendan buck. so, garrett, thune has vowed to shake up business as usual in the senate. what are we expecting from him in terms of how he's going to run the chamber? >> reporter: well, he's made promises that might sound familiar to those of us who have been thinking about how these institutions get run. he's vowed more amendments, more participation from rank and file lawmakers and perhaps most

interestingly, more days working for a senate that's usually only in town for about three, three and a half days when they are here for a workweek at all. he has made the case that the agenda that they have is big, the time they have is short, and the majority that senate republicans will have is quite small, and so he wants the senators butts behind desks, basically every day of a normal working week to try to get as much done as possible. now, that is a frequent promise in washington. all of those, in fact, the idea of more input, more amendments, more days working. it does not always come to fruition, but thune comes in after decades of mitch mcconnell leading the republican conference in the senate, and so he's going to get at least an opportunity to remake how that half of that institution does business. >> interesting, brendan, because thune was openly critical of trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election, and yet he survived a push for him to be primaried in 2022. how insulated is he from trump's

ire? can he lead more independently than other gop? >> certainly in the senate i think there's maybe a few more grownups over there, perhaps than the house, where that would be helpful for john thune. the other interesting thing that he promoted the idea today was protecting the filibuster, and i think that's going to be a really big flash point between him and senators and the president. as you know, most legislation requires 60 votes because of the filibuster. in the senate. and that is going to be very limiting for what republicans are able to get done. they've got a couple of cracks at what we call budget reconciliation where they can pass things on a party line vote, but most things, you know, funding the government, will require 60 votes, and the only reason that that exists is because the senate has made that the rule. and there's no reason that the senate couldn't theoretically change that rule. now, that is a big deal, and we call it going nuclear.

but there will be theoretically some people in trump world who say why are we abiding by these silly senate rules? we could be doing so much more. trump is not exactly an constitutionalist. and there are in the senate, they rely on the views of the parliamentarian to say what things you can and can't do. that's just a staff member. that's not somebody elected to anything. somebody has to explain that to donald trump, the reason they can't do something he wants to do is because a staff person in the senate says that's against their rules. all of these are going to make for an uncomfortable situation over there, and i'm not sure that thune or trump have much of a history or relationship to work off of. the extent that thune could put points on the board quickly for trump would be really important for strengthening that relationship when he does have to deliver him some bad news. >> guys, i would like to have you both stay put. you'll be interested in what i have to share. we have breaking news as judge juan merchan just ordered donald trump to appear for sentencing

on january 10th. he can do it in person or virtually. joining us is msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin on the phone. lisa, tell us what has just happened. i wonder if we just lost you. hang on a second. garrett, we have you, i understand you have just read in on this. >> reporter: yeah. >> january 10th, that is one week from today. it is ten days prior to inauguration, but give me a sense of what judge juan merchan here in new york has suggested will happen on january 10. >> reporter: well, just reviewing this 18-page filing from judge merchan here who was basically asked to answer the question of whether donald trump's winning the presidential election provides him any additional immunity from prosecution or from sentencing in the case in which he was already convicted by a jury. remember, also, over the summer, there was the question of the expanded idea of presidential immunity after the supreme court had ruled with a much more

expansive view of what activities of a president would create some form of immunity. judge merchan goes through the facts of the case, his view of the arguments of both of these questions, and concludes that donald trump as he exists right now, still a private citizen, is not immune from being sentenced in this case in new york city for which he was already convicted and as you just reported, alex, orders him to appear in person or virtually next friday morning at 9:30 to be sentenced. he has to answer whether that appearance will be in person or virtually by the 5th. that's this sunday. out to the trump transition team to see if they have any response to this. as our viewers know, trump as excoriated the prosecutor in manhattan, the judge in this case, he believes this is a witch hunt, unfair prosecution, something he thinks needs to be cleared off his plate to do his job as president. clearly judge merchan disagrees, but what form of sentencing, what might be appropriate here, i think, are questions better

suited for legal analysts and, there will be lots of time to discuss them over the next week which will also involve trump coming to washington to attend the state funeral for jimmy carter, so a very busy and complex week ahead for the president-elect. >> absolutely. we'll be asking questions of our legal analysts very much so to see what will happen, again, we have the funeral, the official state funeral of president jimmy carter on the 9th. so the president will be in washington, former president and now president-elect donald trump will be there on thursday, the 9th. this will all go down on the 10th. we're all going to stay closely attuned to see what happens from judge juan merchan. garrett, thank you so much, it's been a busy day. as for all of you watching, that does do it for us this hour. join me this weekend on alex >> hi everyone, here in

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