, i love that he says democrats have to fight, i don't think that just means a legislative fight because you cannot win if you don't fight, if the american people have no idea what is going on, you cannot win so i think it is going to be imperative for democrats to keep front and center, what this executive branch is doing, what this president is doing so the american people can at least hold somebody accountable. >> and i think making a lot of noise about this, you know, and the point about energy really matters. you are going to maybe have to put in some long hours and long weeks and that is what is necessary for us to get through all of this, we will see where it goes. thank >> great discussion, have your self a great evening, as well. today, house speaker mike johnson, as we were just discussing, has narrowly held onto his gavel after a

protracted vote in his last- minute controlling. johnson was re-elected speaker by a single vote on the first ballot, and then he celebrated his victory with a prayer. >> it is said, each day of his eight years of the presidency and every day thereafter until his death, president thomas jefferson recited this prayer. it goes like this. thomas jefferson's prayer for the nation, it is entitled. almighty god who has given us this good land for our heritage, we humbly beseech thee that we may always prove ourselves to people mindful of thy favor and glad to do thy will. >> it was said, but it was not subtle. that was how mike johnson chose to begin the 119th congress, with a prayer that it is said thomas jefferson recited every day of his presidency and every day thereafter until his death. thomas jefferson's historic home, monticello, is a world paired heritage site, and on

monticello's website you can find a lot of useful historical resources, including a whole section dedicated to spurious quotations, where historians debunk all the fake quotes they get attributed to our nation's third president. it's a helpful resource for anyone with a crazy uncle who posts apocryphal quotes from dead historical figures on facebook. i probably would've also been a helpful resource for writing a speaker of the house acceptance speech. here's what monticello had to say about the prayer that mike johnson claims thomas jefferson delivered everything of debris", we have no evidence that this prayer was written or delivered by thomas jefferson. ultimately it seems unlikely that jefferson would've composed or delivered a public prayer of this sort.". sort of fitting that mike johnson would begin his new term as speaker by rewriting history, after all, rewriting history is one of mike johnson's top legislative priorities. until about a week ago, it seemed like an open question whether or not mike johnson would be able to remain speaker

of the house just before congress left washington for the holidays. president-elect trump and his copresident, elon musk, whipped hard-line republicans and will revolt against johnson's plan to fund the government in the new year. forcing democrats to bail mike johnson out at the last minute. but then, earlier this week, donald trump endorsed mike johnson to be speaker of the house, and last night, just ahead of today's vote, johnson demonstrated his fealty to trump by promising to follow through on one of trump's biggest priorities in the new congress to rewrite history about january 6th. you see, since taking back the house in 2023, republicans have already wasted time and resources trying to discredit the january 6th committees investigation into trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. trump wants them to try to continue discrediting that investigation, even though he just won the last election. and mike johnson has now made it clear that he is happy to go

along with that. last night on the eve of the speaker's election, mike johnson tweeted the january 6th select committee manipulated and destroyed evidence, it created a fake, phony narrative all to try and hurt trump. house republicans will continue our investigation into this corrupt committee. and so today, when johnson speakership looked like it might be in peril, trump decided he would help mike johnson. when the vote for speaker began, three republicans voted against johnson for speaker. thomas massie of kentucky, ralph norman of south carolina, and keith self of texas. which left johnson two votes shy of victory. but then johnson huddled in a cloakroom with representative norman and self. punch bowl news was first to report that during that meeting donald trump got on the phone with the two holdouts and lobbied them to change their votes, which they probably did,

giving mike johnson just enough support to remain speaker of the house. earlier this evening, speaker johnson was asked about trump's role in helping him remain speaker. >> how important was trump's support and endorsement and phone calls to those members? >> president trump is probably the most powerful president, certainly the most powerful president of the modern era, maybe in all of american history, and his voice and his influence is of singular importance. >> so the question was how important was trump's phone call to those members? the answer is trump is the most powerful president in american history. it is clear that mike johnson will do all he can in the hopes of staying in the erratic president-elect's good graces, but as previous republican speakers like kevin mccarthy and paul ryan have already learned, trump sees loyalty as a one-way street. trump has demonstrated time and time again that he will happily

throw his own endorsed speaker of the house under the bus, when it suits them. and so, mike johnson gets to remain speaker of the house, for now, stuck between an unruly , narrow majority, in a demanding, vindictive president. i mean, who wouldn't want that job? joining me to discuss, it columnist for the washington post, an adviser to bernie sanders and founder and executive director of a more perfect union. good evening, to both of you. philip, i have to start with you. because a week ago on this show, alex asked you about how you thought this was going to go and i think it is worth playing that for our viewers again. let's listen to what she said a week ago. >> philip, tim, who here believes that we are going to have a speaker on january 6th? i will start with you, philip. >> oh, yeah. i already raised my hand. look, republicans in congress are focused on one thing, that is keeping donald trump happy. and nothing is going to

frustrate donald trump more than if anything happens to delay his becoming president. they are very adept at coming up with a temporary solution, and i am 100% confident that nobody wants to be the one that made it so donald trump's january 6th did not go exactly the way he hoped the last one did. >> 100% confidence from philip. >> rarely happens these days, philip. so we're giving you the first word on this, what you suspect it happened, and what happens next. >> that is the question, right? i think the one of the things that we saw today was that donald trump, of course, we know that he has the power to wield a hammer over the heads of republican legislators. but one of the things we saw today is the way in which the very narrow house majority really plays to trump's advantage. because this isn't the case that we had two years ago when we had any number of republicans who are complaining about kevin mccarthy. this was two or three people. and two or three people is a very easy number for donald trump to lean on. he can call them, as he was put

on the phone with them today. he can, of course, tweet about them or post entre social, disparaging comments about them, or encourage them to be the targets of primaries. there are all sorts of ways where, if it comes down to just a couple of people, it is much, much easier for donald trump and this massive machine that exists to make donald trump happy to try and influence those people, that it is to try and influence. and there was never any question. because donald trump is worried first and foremost about january 6th and the counting of the electoral ballots, to the point that he complains today entre social about the flags being at half staff in honor of jimmy carter. this is how concerned he is. so course the republican party was going to do what they could to make sure he was happy before monday. >> fez, donald trump took that to mean something different. he did not see it as two or three people. in a social media post he called johnson's razor thin victory, these are his words, quote, an unprecedented vote of confidence. talk to me about that, because that is simply not the case.

it was a razor thin victory. enloe, a victory is a victory. mike johnson got it to work and he understood to take these guys into the cloakroom and get donald trump on the phone, and it worked. but the election was not a landslide. and this was not an unprecedented vote of confidence. >> right, project power is a big philosophy of donald trump, so his 1.5 point national victory is a landslide and his men, and he has to project with him about his allies and support in congress. and there's a substantive reason for that. because they were about to head into governing and they made an agreement, according to what we read in a lot of outlets. apparently when they pass government funding, just a couple of weeks ago, they said that they were going to come back, they were going to raise the debt ceiling by $1.5 trillion in exchange for $2.5 trillion of cuts and mandatory spending. what is mandatory spending? that is social security and medicare. that's all there is to it.

so they have a governing problem and a challenge. they don't know what problem they are trying to solve. ostensibly you could argue that the republicans came into, but the presidency and the house and the senate with power at their backs, because middle- class and working-class americans were worried about the cost of living. and what's going on with their lives. they are struggling economically. and here comes the republican agenda, right off the bat, saying tax us for the rich. let's cut medicare, medicaid, social security, food stamps. and it's not clear what problem you're trying to solve. whatever problem you are focused on is not the middle- class working-class problem. >> it's interesting, because i've heard people say the problem that they are trying to solve, even from joe walsh, we talked about his days in the tea party. he said there was an antiestablishment sense of the tea party. this, in these 38 members who initially voted against the continued resolution last week feels more like antiestablishment. feels a little bit like antigovernment. feels like anti-letting the

place work. and that is a bit of a problem, because that is a program without an agenda. >> yeah, that's true. i mean, it has an agenda, which is to try to game the currency of the right, which is attention. all of these, i shouldn't say all, the vast majority of these legislators are very focused on attention and getting attention. this is one of the reasons why donald trump is able to have leverage over them. because they understand they don't want the negative attention that comes with donald trump. so one of the way to get attention is you constantly outdo the other person. so if the other person is saying we should cut government, you go out and say we should/entirely. we should cut all regulations. to the point where you are constantly upping the ante so your rhetoric against the government is more and more. we have seen that happen over the course of the last 15 years, to your point about the tea party. of course there is the subtext, the tea party, their subtext to donald trump selection had nothing to do with the economy, which was very obvious. but what we are talking here about these legislators, considering these issues, the

person who goes on sean hannity's fox news program and says i think all government should be abolished is going to be a lot more popular than the prisoners as i think we need to cut budgets by 20%. >> and yet, the things that americans report to have voted for donald trump, the reasons i voted for him is because they believe that there are some things people can do on their own. no matter how independent- minded and american you are, maybe you shall your own snow and you plow your own streets and all that kind of stuff. but you cannot bring inflation down on your own. you cannot provide healthcare on your own. so, in fact, many of those people who voted for donald trump were dissatisfied by what government was doing about the things that they believe government can do, and they would like government to do those things. and yet that does not seem to be on the agenda, as you pointed out. >> right, and there've been moments here, you remember, where during the campaign trump what offer some populist rhetoric that was uncommon for

a republican essay. he would suggest i'm going to go after the pharmacy benefit managers, the big middlemen who are making drug prices too high. he would suggest going after credit card interest rates. oh, i'm going to protect social security and medicare. in fact, i'm going to reduce your taxes on social security to make your benefit bigger. there are ways in which he was talking that were appealing to people who are suffering from higher cost of living, you could argue, he was speaking to their concerns. but now, as you move right into governing, almost all of those things, like pharmacy benefit managers, was cut out of the government funding bill. it was actually in the, and elon musk and company cut it out. so now you're having the rubber hit the road, which your point, the people who voted for donald trump who heard certain things, literally heard them while he was campaigning, these have evaporated very quickly and are not being mentioned at all in the course of these budgets that are being discussed. and that will be the first things up. you're going to have massive budget fights with the 218 seat

majority on the house republicans side. >> and they're going to come soon. guys, thanks very much for kicking us off tonight. we appreciate your time. phil, every time both of you get anything right we are going to play it again after it happens. so thanks very much. we have a lot more to get to tonight, like now that the republicans have cleared this one hurdle, selecting their house speaker, here comes another one. i'm going to talk about what that is, and how democrats are strategizing with the democratic congressman brendan boyle of pennsylvania next. and then donald trump has a date with destiny next week. stay with us. . and i'm from flowery branch, georgia. when i have customers come in i recommend prevagen. number one, because it's effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i know it works. and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me." makes my day. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. hayden: the fact st. jude will take care of all this,

this is what's keeping my baby girl alive. chelsea: it's everything for us. we wouldn't know what to do. we couldn't afford for our little girl to survive. and st. jude gives us that. [music playing] have you always had trouble with your weight? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only weight-management medicine proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events such as death, heart attack, or stroke in adults with known heart disease and obesity. don't use wegovy® with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines, or in children under 12. don't take if you or your family had mtc, men 2, or if allergic to it. tell your provider if you plan to have surgery or a procedure, are breastfeeding, pregnant, or plan to be. stop taking and get medical help right away

if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or any of these allergic reactions. serious side effects may include pancreas inflammation and gallbladder problems. call your prescriber if you have any of these symptoms. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. call your prescriber about vision changes, if you feel your heart racing while at rest, or if you have mental changes. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. common side effects include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, stomach pain, flu, or upset, headache, feeling tired, dizzy, or bloated, gas, and heartburn. some side effects lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i'm losing weight, i'm keeping it off, and i'm lowering my cv risk. ask your prescriber about wegovy®.

here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max!

despite all the drama, house speaker mike johnson managed to keep his gavel after flipping two gop holdouts at the very last minute. but winning the speakership was actually the easy part. the real challenge for the 119th congress will be governing . and republicans first big test is already underway. on january 1st, as in two days ago, the temporary suspension of the debt ceiling negotiated between president biden and the former speaker, kevin mccarthy, expired. so now it is up to the new congress, where republicans hold that very slim majority, to raise the debt ceiling or have the u.s. face its first ever currency default, potentially, in the next few months.

but many people are not playing ball. in fact, last month when donald trump asked republicans to raise the debt ceiling, scrap it entirely, or suspended during a second term, more than 30 republicans ignored him altogether. now mike johnson has made the standoff even more politically complex by hinting that a debt ceiling could happen through budget reconciliation, which is a fast-track procedure that would allow them to pass a bill through both the house and the senate, basically along a partyline vote. it's a process democrats and several republicans are flat- out rejecting, at least for the debt ceiling. so where we headed, and how do republicans plan to handle this little thing called governing? joining me now is congressman brendan boyle, the top democrat on the house budget committee. conversely, it's good to see you. thank you for being with us. it is important to have a conversation with you, because there are very few things in the constitution their mandates for congress. and one of them is appropriations. and by definition, that means budgeting. you and your committee,

budgeting and appropriations are the only things that actually have to have an happen by law in congress, and yet it is one of the things congress has the greatest difficulty in getting done. >> it's good to be back with you, and you are right, for mike johnson, today was the early part. once we get to mid-march, and that is when the currency arc continuing resolution is set to expire, then i think that speaker johnson is going to have an impossible task of attempting to both pacify the most extreme members of his republican conference and at the same time pacify donald trump. and at the end of the day, i think that's going to be an impossible choice. add on to that, just normal annual issues of passing and appropriations bill, you also have this issue of the debt ceiling. we are now in what has been labeled extraordinary measures. they will probably expire at some point over the summer. if we don't pass an increase of the debt ceiling before that,

we will be talking about the full faith and credit of the united states actually coming into question for the first time in american history. >> and extraordinary measures are not hard for people to understand, because it's the same thing you would do in your household if you are not able to make your obligations. you would start prioritizing, i'm going to pay these things, i will pay these later, that sort of stuff. treasury can do that for a little while, and there comes a day when treasury can't do it any longer. the treasury has already written the speaker to say we are now in that phase. you have to fix this. where one of the only places in the world with anything like a debt ceiling. the understanding is that the negotiations between republicans and democrats about how much we spend should be done on the front end, and then the payments should be made on the backend, without further negotiation. once you run up bills you have to pay for them. >> you know, the debt ceiling is actually an accident of history, going back to world war i. treasury and congress at that time, in 1917, came up with the concept of the debt

ceiling in order to make it easier for the treasury department to meet our debt obligations. however, since the tea party congress took over after the 2010 elections, the extreme right in this country has westernized the concept of the debt ceiling in order to attempt to bargain for things that are deeply unpopular. we came close in the summer of 2011 of going over the cliff, and indeed, we came very close around this time two years ago. we need to have a permanent end to the right wing republican weaponization of the debt ceiling once and for all. >> so why, then, and this is one of those strange bedfellows things. donald trump was not always on the right side of the thing, then he decided there should be no debt ceiling. he has some particular reasons for wanting that not to be the case. but in the end, he is right about the fact that there should not be one. where are our viewers and where are people supposed to fall on

this one? what is the understanding of what success looks like as it relates to this particular discussion? >> so, i think we have to draw a key distinction here. i have always been a believer of terminally reforming the debt ceiling to end the weaponization of it. i am the author of the debt ceiling reform act. it is cosponsored by more than 60 house democrats. sound legislation that would encompass that. a permanent fix. that is a big difference between my bill and what republicans are talking about, which is preemptively raising the debt ceiling by $4.5 trillion in order to pay for their permanent extension of tax cuts that mostly go to millionaires and billionaires. we have never preemptively raise the debt ceiling in order to pay for anything, let alone tax cuts for the top 1%. so those are two very different things, and we have to keep that distinction in mind. >> well, i want to play for you something, because you are on a committee in which jim roy also

sits, let's listen to how he explains this issue of fiscal responsibility. >> we are making very clear that there is a block of us that are going to be watching very closely. we need to deliver. when you are talking about tax policy, we need all of that to be not just deficit neutral, but reducing deficits. with very specific recognition that whenever we do a tax policy we must have strong offsetting. >> whatever we do with tax policy must have strong offsetting cuts. that is not a rule that republicans tend to attach to tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. they tend to attach that rule to anything that working americans get. so during covid working americans got a $600 check, congress had a twist itself into knots to get that done. but for corporations and the wealthy, guys like chip roy have left to say. >> yeah, let's not forget that

the president in american history who added the most to the national debt is donald trump. he added more to the national debt in four years than almost every president had ever added, even those who served eight years. i like to say republicans deeply care, passionately care about the national debt, when there is a democrat in the white house. then when there is a republican in the white house and they have an opportunity to pass through trillions of dollars worth of tax cuts, they could not care less. but, if folks like chip roy, who actually i think chip is one of the few who is sincere when it comes to the debt issue, if they are going to really succeed in passing their agenda to dramatically bring down the size of the debt, while at the same time passing trillions of dollars worth of tax cuts, there is only a few sources they can go in order to achieve that. it would be trillion dollar cuts to social security, medicare, and medicaid. why? because that is the vast majority of what the government spends on.

>> congress meant, good to talk to you as always, thank you for joining us. we should have a fuller discussion on exactly how this moves forward outside of just this highly politicized environment, because this is the normal order that the house is responsible for undertaking on an annual basis. thank you for your time tonight, congressman brendan boyle of pennsylvania. .com, a slogan associated with donald trump's false claims that he won in 2022 has made it halfway around the world. we will talk about that in a moment. plus, the judge overseeing trump's felony convictions in new york has made a big decision, and is one for the history books. more on that next. ♪♪ for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. ♪far-xi-ga♪ ♪far-xi-ga♪ ask your doctor about farxiga.

(tony hawk) i still love to surf, snowboard, and of course, skate, so i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol's high-absorption magnesium glycinate helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol. the brand i trust. my name is brayden. i was five years old when i came to st. jude. i'll try and shorten down the story. so i've been having these headaches that wouldn't go away. my mom, she was just crying. what they said, your son has brain cancer. it was your worst fear coming to life. watching your child grow up is the dream of every parent.

you can join the battle to save the lives of kids like brayden, by supporting st. jude children's research hospital . families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food, so they can focus on helping their child live . what they have done for me, my son, my family-- i'm sorry, yeah. life is a gift, especially for a child battling cancer. call or go online and help save another lives of children like brayden. now, i'm 11 years old. we were actually doing the checkup for my brain. and they saw something in my throat. it's thyroid cancer. it was heartbreaking to find out that he has cancer again. but we knew who we had behind us. it just gives me hope.

you can make a difference. join with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month. and we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt. without st. jude or its donors, we would have been in a bad place. these kids, they've done nothing wrong in the world. finding a cure for childhood cancer, it means everything. help st. jude give kids with cancer a chance. [audio logo] for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. ♪far-xi-ga♪ ♪far-xi-ga♪ ask your doctor about farxiga.

before today, january 10th was just another day on donald trump's calendar. but this afternoon judge juan merchan earmarked that date, just 10 days before his inauguration as president, for trump meineke sentencing in the new york hush money case. he announced the sentencing date in an 18 page ruling, upholding trump meineke conviction on 34 counts of falsifying business records. but judge merchan also signaled that he is not planning to put the president-elect behind bars, saying in his ruling, quote, while this court as a matter of law must not make any determination on sentencing, prior to giving the parties and defendant opportunity to be heard, it seems proper at this juncture to make known the courts inclination to not

impose any sentence of incarceration. a sentence of an unconditional discharge appears to be the most viable solution to ensure finality and allow defendant to pursue his appellate options. unconditional discharge means trump would avoid jail time or other serious punishment, but would still have a conviction on his record. donald trump is expected to ask an appeals court to postpone his sentencing, but today's ruling makes it real possibility that when he takes the oath of office on january 20th trump will be the first felon to do so. joining me are lisa rubin and kristy greenberg, former federal prosecutor and the united states attorney's office for the southern history of new york. good evening to both of you, thank you for being here with us. lisa, this is one of those things i always turn to you for , you're the first person i think of, and it is that i did not really understand all the words of the judge said. so can you please tell us what

they mean? >> essentially what the judge is saying is that presidential immunity and a host of other arguments that donald trump and his lawyers made are not sufficient to overcome the presumption that a convicted defendant will be sentenced. now, as you noted in your opening, donald trump is not going to be sentenced to a sentence that involves any jail time. so why sentence him at all, you and our viewers might be asking? i would submit to you that what judge merchan has in mind here is an opportunity to speak to trump directly, judge to defendant, and have that be part of the record of accountability in this case. kristi knows better than i have, having seen probably hundreds of sentencings in her time as a prosecutor, that that moment between the judge and a convicted defendant can be a very powerful one. and here judge merchan seems to be saying i want the historical record to reflect the gravity of this moment. this is a person who is found guilty by 12 of his peers on 34 felony counts, and he should have to listen to my telling him why it is that i was unwilling to let him go and

become president of the united states again, and yet not have to go through a sentencing proceeding. >> let's pick that up, kristy. talk to me about that process. as you are right, for some of us it is black and white. he is either going to jail or he is going to face some remarkable penalty, or he's not. and it seems here that judge merchan is saying no, there is a moment here, a historical moment, something that is important about the judicial system, and donald trump is going to have to go through that. explain to me what that feels like. >> so, this is a point in any criminal case where it is really the time where the defendant gets to speak to the judge, show some remorse. i don't expect we will see that from donald trump if the sentencing does happen. but also, a point for the judge to speak about the defense. and to be clear, what is so fascinating about this opinion from judge merchan is that he has previewed a lot of that already. one of the things he was dealing with in this opinion is a motion to dismiss the entire case from donald trump.

so there are number of factors the judge had to go through, similar to what he would say, what he would have to say it sentencing, that he has already actually addressed in his opinion. and this is really important information that he is putting on the record. one of the things that you hear repeatedly from people, i think maybe unlikely said i who did not sit there every day of this trial is well, how serious was this? it is just some documents, this is just some record-keeping errors. this really wasn't something worthy of the seriousness of a criminal charge. and judge merchan, for the first time, is really putting that aside and saying no, i reject that . he said this is a serious offense. it was premeditated, and continuous deception by the leader of the free world. that is this offense. and to vacate that, to get rid of that would constitute a completely disproportionate result. it would create immeasurable damage to the citizens meineke confidence in the rule of law. here's the judge saying this

was serious. and you attacking all the witnesses, you saying michael cullen, that he perjured himself, i don't agree with that. this evidence did support this guilty verdict. and then what i thought was one of the more interesting pieces, he said that in this motion, you, defendant trump, are asking me to weigh in on your character, as to whether or not to dismiss this case. and i have avoided doing that, even though you have attacked mine in the court, and the jury, and everything about this process. i have not done that. but now you are asking me to weigh in on your character, so i'm going to do it. and it is very restrained, but he is quite clear, he talks about trump's disdain for the third branch of government, and that that is a public record, the links that donald trump has gone through to attack judges and juries, and the system as a whole. and then given his attacks on the judicial system, the defendant's character here, i can't say that that weighs in his favor. this is a pretty extraordinary thing for a judge to be saying about somebody who is scheduled

to take the oval office in a matter of weeks. so i just, i thought that part of what judge merchan was trying to do, even if the sentencing does not happen, is really be very clear about the fact that this case was a legitimate case, it was a serious case that he presided over, the jury's verdict was one that should not be questioned, the jury did its job, and he is going to defendant. >> lisa, one of the things that we understand with donald trump and court cases, nothing is ever what it appears to be. donald trump continues to want to delay this sentencing, but for now it is scheduled for january 10th. without the sentencing, donald trump cannot appeal the conviction. so tell me about the mechanics of that. because he would like to appeal the conviction as well. >> well, yes and no. you are right to say that under new york law he cannot appeal his conviction until there is a sentencing, because it is not until the sentencing that the conviction is finalized. however, trump had his case in federal court, and --

>> this can't be happening! i must know what she's saying! what is she saying! hold on. white, i see lisa's lips moving. lisa, you are back. >> no, i was just saying donald trump is going to try to pose an appeal on the federal system on the grounds that he has a federal defense here based on presidential immunity. he tried to do that over the summer. it was a second attempt at doing so. but he still has an appeal pending at the second circuit, that is the federal court of appeals between district courts and the united states supreme court. expect him to try to use the federal courts, not the new york state courts, as a lever to postpone the sentencing any day that gets him beyond january 20th is a victory, because at that point he becomes procedurally immune from any prosecution as a sitting president. >> i appreciate, i am much clearer on this than i was

before we started this conversation, so i appreciate both of you being here to help us through it. lisa rubin, msnbc correspondent, kristy greenberg, former federal prosecutor in the united states attorney's office for the southern district of new york. thank you both for your time tonight. still ahead, thousands of protesters holding stop the steel signs in front of the presidential residence in south korea. why were south korean protesters referencing donald trump? i will explain next.

what if there was a cruise that felt like no other? a cruise created by foodies— for foodies. one chef for every 10 guests, every meal prepared to order, and every plate a personal discovery. ♪♪ welcome to the world of oceania cruises, the world's greatest cities, and off the beaten path secrets. one memorable bite and toast at a time. it's more than a feeling. it's more than a cruise— it's oceania cruises. narrator: at this very moment, children at st. jude are fighting to survive. with a gift right now, you can join the battle to save lives.

katy: without saint jude, i don't know where we would be. can we see snuggles? they have given children with cancer, like my winston, a chance. christine: she has neuroblastoma and it has spread to her liver. i try to enjoy every minute with her because i do not know when would be my last moments with her. narrator: time is running out to give a year-end gift that can help. st. jude children's research hospital save lives. because cancer doesn't stop during the holiday season. please call, go online, or scan the qr code right now and give $19 a month to help make it the season of hope for families at saint jude. tammie: just that feeling that was, like, so hard on your heart that my kid's not going to live. every day now, it's like a gift.

narrator: for just $19 a month, you can make a difference. please become a st. jude partner in hope right now. franchet: those that donate, it's more than a miracle for me. it's more than a blessing. (voice breaking) they have done so much for me and my family. narrator: join with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month, and we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt you can proudly wear to show your support. katy: all these children deserve to live, and i would love for it to be the day where no other family has to fear losing their child to cancer. you've given us hope. narrator: please don't wait until the last minute. make your donation now to help st. jude save lives.

advil liqui-gels are faster and stronger than tylenol rapid release gels. ♪♪ also from advil, advil targeted relief, the only topical with 4 powerful pain fighting ingredients that start working on contact and lasts up to 8 hours. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans can help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. ♪♪

last night temperatures in korea fell below 20 degrees fahrenheit, but despite the cold, thousands of protesters camped out outside, overnight at the barricade leading up to the impeached south korean president yoon's residence, demanding that president yoon be arrested. feet away from that protest, thousands of other protesters camped out, demanding that the president not be arrested. at the gate to the president's residence itself, about 100 police officers and investigators trying to detain the president faced off with more than 200 presidential bodyguards for more than five hours before the police ultimately retreated. the reason for the standoff, president yoon, who is already been impeached and suspended from office but not yet removed is under criminal investigation for allegations of insurrection. you may a month ago president

yoon surprise the nation the world by declaring martial law to televised arrest in the middle of the night, which led to its own hours long standoff. south korean troops tried to force their way into parliament while south korean politicians held an emergency session voted to rescind the presidents martial law degree, and will thousand south korean citizens protested in the streets, at the time the six hours of martial law but like absolute chaos. but in the months since, the south korean national assembly has been holding hearings and collecting testimony from key officials, and what they learned appears to be the yoon's declaration of martial law last month was less chaos and more of a premeditated plan to upend south korea's democracy that got botched. according to a statement issued by one of their attorneys, days before president yoon declared martial law, four south korean military intelligence officials met at a hamburger joint outside of seoul and sketched

out a plan. the plan went like this once martial law was declared, troops would enter the election commission's office and move employees to the basement, using zip ties and masks if necessary. then the troops would check the election machines for any security breaches. on the night martial law was declared, troops were deployed to the election commission, even before the president issued his degree. they seized night shift employees cell phones and began photographing election machines. you see, back in april, south korea's opposition party won the nation's parliamentary elections in a landslide over the president's party. so after declaring martial law, president yoon claimed he was doing so not because he wanted to seize power from his opponents, but because the election had, i hope you're sitting down for this, because the election had been stolen. if any of this sounds familiar to you, you are not alone. for hours today, pro yoon

protesters outside the president's residence waved american flags and held signs that read stop the steal a direct reference to trump's 2020 election claims here in the united states. so, what happens now? and what should we make of south korean citizens invoking the united states while cheering on an alleged insurrection? the new york times opinion columnist nick kristof joins me next to discuss.

your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works. dupixent helps people with asthma breathe better in as little as 2 weeks. so this is better. that too. dupixent is an add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma. it works with your asthma medicine to help improve lung function. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems and doesn't replace a rescue inhaler. it's proven to help prevent asthma attacks. severe allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for face, mouth, tongue or throat swelling, wheezing or trouble breathing. tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in limbs. tell your doctor of new or worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection.

don't change or stop steroid, asthma, or other treatments without talking to your doctor. when you can get more out of your lungs, you can du more with less asthma. and isn't that better? ask your doctor about dupixent, the most prescribed biologic in asthma. and now approved as an add-on treatment for adults with copd that is not well controlled, and with a specific marker of inflammation. ♪♪ ♪♪

did you take your vitamin today? that's my job. ♪♪ nature made. made with quality ingredients. (glasses clink) made to care for you, every day. ♪♪ from nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. ♪ ♪ the #1 with so much greatnded entertainment out there... wouldn't it be easier if you could find what you want, all in one place? my favorites. get xfinity streamsaver with netflix, apple tv+, and peacock included, for only $15 a month.

earlier today, thousands of protesters descended on the presidential residence in south korea where supporters of the president yoon suk yeol successfully blocked his detainment. this comes one month after yoon declared martial law in its attempt to weaken the is provincial opponents after the parliamentary victory in april. supporters carried american flags and signs that said stop the steal , in english. some sought to legitimize his attempt at power grab by name checking donald trump, the twice impeached incoming leader of south korea's close and powerful ally, the united states. now, trump has not yet weighed in on the recent events in south korea, but what is the yoon supporters maga that signal mean for south korea's

relatively young democracy? joining me now is nick kristof, who closely covered south korea's democracy movement back in the 80s. nick, good to have you here. this is a uniquely important story for a lot of reasons. one is south korea is a strong american ally in a supremely troubled part of the world right now. number one. and number two, they do have a history of accountability when it comes to corruption and when it comes to election malfeasance. so i cannot tell what i am looking at with south korea in the last month. is this their system working, or is is there system broken? >> i actually think it's both. you know, at one level south korea's wrestling with the same problems that americans did after january 6th. they are trying to figure out how you institute accountability for a leader that effectively tries to mount a coup. and to their great credit, south korean lawmakers have forced their way into the

national assembly, they overturned the order of martial law, then they impeach the president, they suspended him, and now there is a real effort to impose criminal account ability for him. that was blocked today. but there is something inspiring about south koreans, both lawmakers and public thinkers, and just ordinary citizens turning out to try and hold leader accountable for trying to undermine their democracy. and, i mean, but there is also this other side where it does represent incredible polarization of south korean society. deep distrust across that chasm. and look, i mean, it is a challenge for south korea. right now, without effective leadership, if there is a crisis. but i have to say, to me it's

kind of inspiring the sea. >> that's what i was looking for. you know it well, and i wanted to know, basically what you take away from it. what i find interesting, we know that there are popular movements across the world that have tilted a little bit to the right, and sometimes anti- democratic. what i have not yet seen, and we have instances in georgia, we have an instance in croatia, we have it going on in austria, we have seen it in hungary, all sorts of things. what i have not seen is an actual straight up stop the steal type thing with english signs. i mean, people might say hey, donald trump in america has it right in terms of power to the people and throw the bums out, this is different. this has a uniquely american flavor to it. >> well, you know, i think both sides actually, in south korea, look to the united states for examples, and those supporting president yoon turned to president trump . and those critics, they do look at american effort to try and create account ability.

and south korea has a democracy, in part, because there were so many south korean leaders who, in the 1980s, were inspired and backed by democracy activists in the u.s. and you know, it is also notable that this is not the first time the south korea is opposing account ability on former leaders. i think by my count there are six former presidents of south korea who have been prosecuted or have gone after them, you know, one was sentenced to 25 years in prison, one was sentenced to death. none of them serve long sentences. but this effort to make clear that all people are equal before the law, that runs deep in south korea. >> which is interesting, because when we were talking about holding donald trump accountable for alleged crimes, people say well, this will change the country, it will never be the same. and people like you are

pointing out that actually, in other places in the world, they do hold people accountable. there are lots of leaders, elected leaders, currently elected leaders, formerly elected leaders who have gone to jail, and there are many who might now, in the coming years. that part is something we have not quite mastered in the united states, that in fact all people are equal. interestingly, in south korea, the crime of insurrection. there are certain things for which a president is immune for in the pursuit of the things he does while in office. insurrection is not one of them. >> that's right. and you know, i think it is very tempting america to watch the procession of former leaders being prosecuted and think oh, what a dysfunctional country. and i must say that i have come to kind of admire their determination to hold former leaders accountable. with a caveat that i do think that they have a real problem with polarization and deep distrust, and a chasm that can render politics really hard to actually manage in that country.

>> we have two particular issues as it relates to south korea. one is north korea. which is a blustery country with nuclear weapons. and the other is china, which is all sorts of issues, and we are trying to determine which china is ally and where china is adversary. it strikes me, as a result of that, and because of our military presence in south korea and our commitment to south korea, that south korean stability is uniquely important to america in this moment. we have not heard from donald trump on this yet. what can or should americus take be on what is going on in south korea? >> i think the u.s. needs to make very clear that this is for the south koreans to decide. we, in the past, interfered too much with their political system, but we should support democracy and support the rule of law. it is not up to us to pick winners. i think we should also be very clear that we are supporting south korea, vis-@-vis any that

the north may take. north korea, approximately a year ago, adopted a new approach to south korea that is much more militant. there are a lot of concerns that it might not exactly start a new korean war, but launch strikes against offshore islands, by example, and territorial waters. and i think that we should be very clear that if there is any effort by north korea to take advantage of this situation. >> it's not a conversation we got time for tonight, nick, but we should have it one of these days, and that is there are some liberal movements taking place across the world that we should be concerned about, and how donald trump plays into thar or for worse is what we will har have to confront. but we appreciate you joining us tonight, as always. nicklaus is an opinion columnist for "the new york times." that's our show for tonight. time now