yes, they did. they're still breathing. she's not. dennis murphy (voiceover): josh and sirius are serving their sentences in separate maximum security prisons. brandy's parents are raising her daughter. the family is left with a snapshot album, itself getting older, but the young woman pictured in the pages inside staying the same, never to have her own album of her daughter graduating, getting married. time ran out for brandy on a dark hilltop before she could kiss her daughter goodnight. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm andrea canning. thanks for watching. hello.

welcome to this special holiday edition of "morning joe." happy almost 2025. we're on tape this hour, bringing you some of our top recent discussions, including one about how president-elect trump is already claiming some preemptive policy victories before even taking office. we spoke to "the washington post" opinion columnist dana mill bank about that. as you point out in "the washington post," the president-elect doesn't take over for six more weeks, but, magically, he has already made america great again. you write in part this, "he has solved the border crisis, mexico's president has agreed to stop migration through mexico and into the united states effectively closing our southern border, trump tells us. this will go a long way toward stopping the illegal invasion of the usa. he has brought peace to the middle east. former nato chief says israel, hezbollah cease-fire, a direct result of incoming trump

administration. was the headline trump posted on his fledgling social media site on monday. he has scored a break through against the opioid epidemic. he's announced he's secured the commitment of the canadian government to work with us, to end this terrible devastation of u.s. families. and he has already turned the u.s. economy into the envy of the world. the stock market just recorded its best month this year in the wake of trump's landslide victory, proclaimed the headline of another trump social media post." dana, pretty neat trick here for trump to take credit for things before he actually wields the levers of power. tell us more about what you found. but is there any truth to the idea that just the looming presence of trump might be changing at least some things? maybe not the victories he is claiming, but at least some things, both at home and abroad? >> well, sure, jonathan, it may be changing things at the

margins in terms of the way allies and foreign governments act, but, you know, basically what's happened here is the fantasy that trump on the campaign trail is colliding with reality here. look, he said we're a failed nation, and now he is going to inherit this supposedly failed nation. well, what is he going to do then? i mean, day one most likely, he is going to proclaim victory and start talking about all the greatness of america. it's fairly easy to do since america didn't stop being great in the first place. now, it's kind of a neat trick, except that his supporters seem perfectly willing, you know, like they're in on the joke to some extent. as soon as trump was elected, you saw the poll swing. suddenly, republican voters are saying they're optimistic about the economy. things aren't so bad after all. so, you know, it was a lot. it was a charade going on, that a number of trump's own

supporters were in on. you know, at some point, you have to adjust to the reality of the situation, which is that our country is not the disaster he portrayed it to be. why not sort of preemptively take credit for it? >> dana, you had an interesting podcast yesterday about americans just not believing in experts anymore. what has to happen for experts to win back any faith in their solutions and in their process? >> gosh, i can profess to you right now i am not an expert on anything, but, you know, look, this is a much bigger problem, what we're having at the moment. you're seeing it in the trump confirmation battles. you know, qualifications really aren't important, and i think it is an extension of a rejection of expertise. this has been years and years in the building. it's been a discrediting of traditional media. you know, it's hand in hand with

the sort of anything goes alternative of facts universe. i wish i could say there is a solution. it just seems to me that we're going to have to have more of these collisions with reality. unfortunately, we're going to have to, presumably, see some disastrous results during the trump presidency that would make people rethink their predispositions. >> susan, in your latest piece for "the new yorker," titled "donald trump is picking fights. will anyone hit back?" you talk about the ways you see leaders appear to be capitulating to the president-elect instead of standing up to him. tell us more about what you found. >> look, obviously, there was a lot of surprise that greeted the decision of chris wray to preemptively announce his resignation from the fbi rather than waiting for donald trump to fire him on the grounds of essentially not being personally loyal to donald trump himself.

i think there is a robust debate about how best to deal with the challenge of donald trump coming in. you know, here in europe at a conference, and this is at a moment when officials in nato, allied governments are extremely nervous about trump coming in. they're worried about him making a peace deal with russia. essentially on putin's terms. it'd potentially undermine the nato alliance. in the past, trump threatened to walk out of nato all together. what are they doing? they're preemptively signaling, we're raising our spending to 3% of gdp. but at this point, trump hasn't taken office. is that the right thing to do, to mollify trump, not to get into his sights? or is it a disastrous mistake? then trump could ask for more. you see this to a certain extent

with canada. it was remarkable to me to have the president of the united states openly taunting the leader of canada, saying, you know, maybe you should just become our 51st state. what i thought was interesting was that you didn't hear canadian prime minister justin trudeau clap back at trump and say, "hey, wait a minute, we're an independent, sovereign country and may have many advantages over the united states," i mean, that's as insulting as you can get to a foreign government. i think the response has been notable for how much people are wary of confronting donald trump. >> susan, actually, i completely agree with you. it goes beyond that even. you see some of the tech giants who have been in crosshairs with trump, turning around and donating heavily to his inauguration committee. i'm wondering if we can dig deeper here. what do you think is the psychology happening right now? if you think back to 2016, this time period going into 2017, you know, if i'm recalling

correctly, there was a lot of talk about, you know, how do you fight this? what are the protection movements going to look like? you know, lawyers are getting ready for the muslim ban. obviously, you had immediate pushback. scenes at airports, the women's march, et cetera. i don't sense any of that in talking to democrats or people who would be involved in the type of pushback you traditionally see. why do you think that is the case? are people just worn down by it all? >> you know, there are many potential explanations. one is exhaustion. we're eight years into this, not one month but eight years and one month, so exhaustion is a part of it. i think there appears to be a collective conclusion among trump's critics, trump's opponents, that somehow the early resistance framework did not produce the results they wanted it to. that certainly is notable here, in terms of foreign leaders, as well. i remember angela merkel's

statement when trump was elected, lecturing trump and saying, "i'll be on the watch for violations of democracy." you don't see statements like that this time around from foreign leaders, who are eager not to be in trump's crosshairs. you know, the question is, is that going to serve as a deterrent to trump in any way or constraining him in any way, in the sense that while he has so many partners to work with, you know, it's a big question. there are many people who look at what s happened in countries that have gone through backsliding in democracy in recent years. there's the frame of, hey, listen, don't obey in advance. i was just speaking with a leader of the turkish opposition, interestingly, to erdogan to all these years. i asked him about christopher wray resigning. i asked him about, you know, what do you think about this debate that's happening in washington? he was uncategorical, which is really interesting. he said, "don't do it. don't obey.

fight as long as you can. don't resign until you absolutely have to." i thought it was really interesting, that that was the perspective of someone who has been resisting erdogan's authoritarian moment for a long time in turkey. >> yeah, a very important moment and an important piece. staff writer at "the new yorker," susan glasser, thank you. we'll be reading that piece. it's online this morning. dana, to you on this idea of resistance. it does seem very different than the aftermath of the 2016 election, at least so far, in terms of the lack of protest movement here at home, the lack of uproar overseas. do you see things that can change that? i know at least domestically, some democrats think if trump were to follow through with the mass deportations plan, that might be the spark that changes things. what do you think? >> i agree with what susan was saying about this exhaustion. you're seeing it, you know, by our newspaper readership is down. your viewership is down. i think people having been

through this once are saying, oh, we have to do it again? and that is the slippery slope that we're talking about. you know, it all becomes normalized. we just accept it and say, maybe it won't be so bad this time. what does it take? you know, there's a chance that we'll start to see this when the confirmation hearings begin in january. you know, some of the more outrageous characters may spark some. you're right, it may be roundups at the border. it may require some other policy failure, you know, setting off a trade war, for example. or something we don't know. if we know anything, the trump administration will be unpredictable. i think there is a chance around the inauguration and in january, that energy of the quote, unquote resistance returns. it is, you know, a sign of how beaten down, i think, the left and the never trump republicans

are, that it's just so quiet right now. >> 2017, it was the inauguration which sparked subscriptions in newspapers and cable viewership and the like. we'll see if it happens again. dana milbank, thank you. latest book, "fools on the hill, the hoo conspiracy theories and dunces who burned down the house," it's on sale now. up next, we'll be joined by one of the several democrats vying to be the next dnc chair. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be ri. about three or four years ago, i felt like i was starting to slip. i saw the prevagen commercials. after a short amount of time taking prevagen, i started noticing a difference-- i stopped taking prevagen and i found myself slacking back so i jumped right back on it. i've been taking prevagen for about two years now, and i've found a huge difference. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

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welcome back. the race is on for the democratic national committee chair. the young democrats of america held the first candidate forum of the race during the winter meeting last week. former maryland governor martin o'malley. minnesota chair martin. wisconsin democratic chair ben wickler. new york state senator james skoufis all took part. new york state senator skoufis joins us now. welcome to "morning joe." >> good to have you here. we have the most powerful democrat of america sitting next to you. why don't you ask the first question? >> reverend al, take it. >> james, over the last three decades, we've seen the fight in the democratic party back in, say, the late '80s, '90s, it was the democratic leadership council against rainbow coalition.

then howard dean and i ran in that cycle against the more moderates. how do you see you running as a new face nationally, trying to bring the party together rather than having these torn sides which only leads to ultimate defeat of the democratic party when you have the conservative or the so-called moderate side against those that are more progressive? >> this is the core question, right? how do we rebuild the once big democratic tent, the tent that's fraying on both edges? i've done this for the past 12 years daily. i come from a district that donald trump just won by 12 points. >> but you won by 14. >> i won it by 14. he's won my district three times. i live and breathe every day coalition building. how do we bring back folks under that big tent that we used to? we haven't dominated in a national election since 2008. it's been 16 years since we've had a dominant performance.

we've either white knuckled it across the finish line or we've lost. the next dnc chair, i believe the single most important thing that he must do or she must do is throw out the old d.c. playbook. it just hasn't worked in a long time. if you're a candidate in this race who has been at the table, who has been a dnc lifer, and you haven't delivered that change in the 5, 10, 15 years you've had a seat at that table, who is going to expect change from the chair? this calls for an aggressive outsider who can win. that's why i'm running for this race. >> bbc's katty kay has a question for you from washington. katty. >> i'm interested about what you said, moving fast. we're in a moment of realignment, antielite, anticorporate, and strictly populist. can you talk not so much about the policy side of things, because i think the harris campaign had policies that were

on the books that were helping working class americans, but maybe they didn't cut through. can you talk about the character and the style, what my kids would call the vibe of the candidate, that can seem authentically connected to working class americans at the moment? how important is that to you, and what does it look like? >> that's right. the next dnc chair, this isn't a policymaking role. i'll give an example i think -- >> but you represent how you see the aura of the party. >> of course. i spoke to a dnc member in arizona a few days ago, a battleground state. she told me that she got upwards in the heat of the campaign 16 big glossy mailers a day, daily, from the national democrats. i've run a lot of campaigns. i've won all of them. there is nothing that the 16th mailer is doing that the 15th mailer was not doing. so we have to get away as a party from the d.c. consultant class, from, you know, the folks who i'm referring to as the

cocktail circuit, and shift our attention and our focus and our resources to the boots on the ground. the party loyalists, the faithful who are actually moving the needle and are in the trenches. friends in organized labor feel they've been taken for granted for cycles and cycles. i don't just want to be the dnc chair who picks up the phone and frantically calls them when i need boots on the ground, folks in the rally. i need them in the room to develop the strategy, the guidance, how to move forward with rebuilding the working class we've lost. i come from a union class, a working class household. you know, we need to get back to talking to the folks who, quite frankly, feel completely disconnected from the democratic party. we use overly academic language as if we're running for university chancellor sometimes. we've got to start becoming relatable again as democrats.

>> senator, you've won your district each time donald trump has won in your district. if you become the chair of the dnc, how do you go to washington and get the collective brainiacs at the top of the democratic party, and i say that lightly? all you hear from them is how could people vote for donald trump, or the alternative they use is, how can people be so stupid? how do you tell those other democrats that the people who voted for donald trump are not stupid? >> you're 100% right. we've gotten into this bad habit as a party of lecturing people, telling them what they should think, how they should feel if they don't agree on the border, they're racist. if they don't agree on x, y, or z, they're stupid. as you just stated. look, the next dnc chair has to do a lot of rebuilding of our coalition. the perfect example is the conflict in gaza.

because we've walked on eggshells and not engaged meaningfully in this conversation, we've managed to p iss off every stakeholder. i represent jews who voted for me but feel disconnected from the democratic party. the arab-american party, precipitous declines on election day. college campus activists, they feel disconnected from the democratic party. so, you know, the next dnc chair needs to go with contrition to groups like this, leaders in these communities, stakeholder groups, and explain, look, we haven't gotten it right the last couple of cycles, and we want to do better. we want you back under our once big democratic tent. it starts with reaching out to these folks, demonstrating respect. look, if you're been part of the dnc apparatus for 5, 10 years as some of the other candidates have, and you haven't been doing these things, who is to expect you're going to start now suddenly doing these things as dnc chair?

i've done this daily in really difficult terrain, and that's what i look to scale up as dnc chair. >> one of the most striking things about donald trump's win this time around were the gains he made. we can start in new york city, queens or brooklyn, among african american voters, among latino voters, asian-american voters. what do you read into that? that was a trend we saw around other cities and across the country, as well, border counties in texas, with latino voters moving toward donald trump. what do you see in the numbers and how do you bring the numbers back? >> it starts with showing up. it's not paying a celebrity or tiktok influencer to wrangle 18 to 29 young black or hispanic voters. we as democrats have to show up. the candidate, the next dnc chair, democratic party leadership. if you look in our urban centers, there wasn't so much a shift in support from harris to trump, we just didn't come out. these are voters who feel we've

taken them for granted. the way i overperformed in my majority-minority communities, places like newberg and middletown in the hudson valley, i show up and listen and do something about the issues they care about. maternal health, general health care access, the rent is too high. we have to stop as democrats putting people into different academic buckets and categories. we've become too concerned with that and lost sight of doing work on the issues that they care about. so they didn't show up to vote for anybody. >> it's one of the things bill clinton told me last week, rev. you've got to meet people where they live. too many people believe the democrats didn't do that. bill clinton believed the democrats didn't do that. you know, mike barnicle asked a great question about trump voters. you call all of them stupid, you'll lose the next election, too, because even if you don't understand why somebody may have

voted for donald trump, there's a reason why you and i say all the time, we're in the conversion business. we don't care when somebody converts. we just want them to convert. if the democrats are going to win in two years, in four years, in six years, they need to feeds the conversion business. don't go judge. we can talk about the spiritual. you don't go in and tell somebody, you're going to hell. come to my church. meet them where they live and then move them over to your side, right. >> absolutely right. one of the things a good minister understands is jesus did most of his ministry outside of the synagogue. in fact, he was only in the synagogue maybe twice in the bible. >> he was criticized by religious leaders for being with the, quote, sinners. >> that's right. >> the tax collectors, the adulterers, the people the

religious leaders wouldn't be around. >> those in civil rights, what i do, the best ones are those that reach out for converts, to bring people in to what we're trying to fight for, and see it as right. not try to beat them down and say, you're just a bad person. then they'll confirm it and say, i'll be a bad person. >> and self-righteousness is not going to get the people democrats need to get to win the next election. >> new york state senator and candidate for dnc chair, james skoufis, thank you for coming on the show. nice to meet you. up next, a lion of the republican south passes. when we come back, the life well lived of mississippi's clark reed. reed

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we want to close by remembering mississippi businessman clarke reed, who developed the republican party in the state and across the south beginning in the 1960s. he's died. he was 96 years old. reed was chairman of the mississippi republican party from 1966 to 1976. at a time when democrats still dominated the region. he is credited with helping president gerald ford win the 1976 republican nomination, when during the convention, delegates were divided between ford and california governor ronald reagan. and remembering reed, senator roger wicker of mississippi

wrote, "there is no more significant figure in the development of modern day mississippi republican party than clarke reed. our state has lost a giant." >> yeah, i mean, we lived in mississippi in the late '60s and early '70s. carmichael, meridian, and clarke reed. two republicans in the entire state. jon, you knew him well. he was the father of julia reed. think of taking the republican party from nothing to a dominant force in mississippi was tough? i think he'd tell you raising julia was more difficult. >> that is correct. >> you wrote an absolutely beautiful, touching tribute to reed. it reads in part this. "handsome, charming, peripathetic, reed, who spoke in a delta patois that was best described in a drawling mumble

or a mumbled drawling. he was big, consequential, fascinating life. reed was not only present at the creation of republican south, he was one of its creators, and his politics seems quaint now. never an extremist, he believed in an america that was engaged in the world. you could disagree with clarke, but his motives were not petty but patriotic, not reflexively partisan but civic minded. in 1957, he married julia brooks, known as judy. she had been pinned or pre-engaged in the manner of the time, to another man, a fellow student at vanderbilt university, when she met reed. she was interested, as was he, but he did not move with dispatch until, during a phone call with judy, he heard a dog barking in the background. when he learned that the vanderbilt boyfriend had given judy the puppy, he hung up. a dog, reed thought, is a serious thing.

reed drove to nashville and proposed. the reeds' house became a conservative salon, a stopping-off point for visiting politicians and journalists, many of whom were brought over to be feted with little to no notice. judy reed became expert at whipping up scalloped oysters made with ritz crackers when her husband called from the airport to announce that bill buckley or dick cheney would be over in a few minutes. into his 90s, he'd be working the phones, weighing in with republicans and journalists across the country. with brown bags of bourbon and wine, reed hosted a flow of visitors. he could hold forth, at some length, on subjects ranging from the agrarian thought of andrew lytle and robert penn warren to the virtues of the large plastic clips that sealed opened but unfinished bags of potato chips to the details of the alger hiss perjury trial. presidents, senators, congressmen, and governors

depended on this political pioneer for counsel and leadership, karl rove said. he had a broad smile, a twinkle in his eye, and a talent for friendship. he made politics not only consequential but interesting and fun. the light that brightened many a political backroom and convention hall is gone." >> jon, you've expressed many of, in the past, said many of the things he had said, some of which we will not repeat here. but a dog is a serious thing. sticks out in this beautiful, beautiful obit. tell us about your friend. >> well,hank you. let's point out that the most formidable women any of us know went to my dearest school. >> of course.

>> julia reed and our leader, ms. brzezinski. he was from ohio, part of the northern delta. wanted to be -- was at a military school in tennessee. very much wanted to fight in world war ii. was a little too young. became a businessman in the delta. building grain bins and scaring birds off of fields. got interested in politics in the '50s. voted for eisenhower in 1952, which as you know, was the first time a lot of southerners allowed themselves to do that since the civil war and reconstruction. what's important, i think, for us is that clarke loved delegate counting and precinct cutting and thrusting.

you know, loved all the pettiness of politics. he reveled in it. but he was a russell kirk, william f buckley, edmund burke kind of conservative. his way into politics was not just mindless competitiveness, but was the idea. the ideas that maybe the state did not have all the answers. america needed to be standing strong against fascism and communism. he was someone who came to the arena with a creed. in that, he believed that there should be a two-party system. remember, the democratic party was -- had a total monopoly. one of the reasons jfk was in dallas in 1963, remember, was to bring peace, not between democrats and republicans, that wasn't where the race was. it was between the liberal democrats and the conservative,

more segregationist democrats. clarke, with carter iii, a liberal newspaper editor there, wanted to break the power of the conservative democrats. he became this remarkable power broker. also, just had a lot of fun doing it. >> yeah. >> all right. >> historian jon meacham, well done. >> thank you so much, jon. >> thank you. coming up, award winning actor david alan grier joins us with a look at his new series. we'll be right back after this. oh tina! wild tina booked a farm stay to ride this horse. glenn close?! with millions of possibilities you can book whoever you want to be. that's my line! booking.com booking.yeah for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again.

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this should have cleared up with the antibiotics i put you on. >> i didn't take them, waiting for when i really need them. >> like right now? oh, just a minute. life largely disappoints, mostly in big ways, but i find the simple pleasures always deliver. every day at 2:00 p.m., i get a nutrageous bar and eat it alone in the stairwell. some people smoke, some meditate. i slowly nibble through a peanut and caramel-filled miracle of american ingenuity. >> that was a clip from the new nbc show "st. denis medical." the mocumentary tells the story of an underfunded andunderstaff ed oregon hospital tries to treat their community without

losing their own sanity. joining us now, award-winning actor david alan grier. he stars as dr. ron leonard in the show. he sat down doing bits for us, which we appreciate very much, hitting the ground ready to go. talk to us about -- good to see you. talk to us about the show. what drew you to it? >> yes. my coat is not natural fur. let's get that out of the way. >> it is chilly in here. >> i asked for a great script. shooting in town. i was a young daughter. you know, you have your wish list. i give this to my team. days later, they gave me the script. i had 24 hours to decide. it was easy. for once, it was easy. >> you earned it. tell us about how much fun it was day after day. stellar cast. >> i'd never worked with anyone, but for the first time in hi my career, i got emails from nbc. we would love you to do this.

i'm used to going, hey, if you say no, we have other options. a friend of mine, anna, who worked with the show creators, sent me a note and said, we love these guys. you should do it. i was like flooded with you should do it. it was always the script. i didn't know any of the actors. i knew the work of wendi and allison. i knew they had my back, and i trusted. that's what you have to do sometimes, trust. >> this looks really fun. it does involve trust. it feels like a lot of improv going on here. i'd love for you to answer that -- no? okay. i'm going to be wrong about my next question then, as well. it also feels like, in the best ways, a mix of "the office" community and "modern family." >> wrong! >> mika, 0 for 2. >> okay. >> wrong again. >> 0 for 2. >> what color is your jacket? >> oh, i don't know. >> green. >> what kind of green?

i don't know. what'd you call it? >> olive. >> i'll go with olive. >> i'm going to call this a muted forest wilderness green. that's a neutral. a muted wilderness green. >> good luck, mara. you're next with questions. let's get one out of three right. go. >> listen, i think we are in a moment where lots of americans need a show to bring them some joy. can you just talk a little bit about that experience and what you're hoping viewers take away from this experience? >> well, it's comfort food. there won't be a lot of talk about the desperate situation our health care system is in. we allude to it, but our thing is comedy, entertainment first, rooted in a base of reality. a rue of reality, if you will. but it's not going to be like, a heavy political statement.

but i think we give that. >> right. >> with a lot of sugar. >> i can't wait to see it. >> politics and a lot of laughs. you can catch "st. denis medical" tuesdays at 8:00 p.m. eastern on nbc. streams the following day on peacock. david alan grier, thank you. >> no, thank you. >> mika, thank you! >> thank you. thank you for confirming the color of your jacket. coming up, we'll speak with the actors julianna and peter gallagher here in studio to talk about their broadway play, "left on tenth," which brings to life the extraordinary, true story of reconnection and love. "morning joe" will be right back with that. easy to take cough, anywhere. chew on relief, chew on a ♪ robitussin ♪ okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health.

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america must stand. what unites us is not kinship, place of igin or religious preference. the love of liberty is a common blood that flows through our american veins. ♪ this will be ♪ what's a youngian? >> someone who believes the unconscious can be a source of joy and creativity, who believes in confluence or, as we call it now, synchronicity, in the mysteries of life, joining and flowing together as rivers do. >> the opposite of what my freudian shrink told me in my 20s. that two people falling in love across a crowded room are simply spotted their neurotic match. >> exactly. >> i began to believe i'd fallen into my own romantic comedy. >> that was "left on tenth," adapted for the stage by acclaimed screenwriter, delia ephran, from her bestselling

2022 memoir of the same name. she reconnects with an old flame, peter, who reaches out to the writer after reading a moving 2016 op-ed she penned in "the new york times" about the pain and frustration of disconnected her deceased husband's landline with verizon. joining us now, the co-stars, emmy and golden globe award winning actress margulies, who plays delia, and golan globe winning and tony nominated actor peter gallagher, who plays peter. you guys -- >> this is big stuff. >> welcome. >> thank you for having us. >> this is so fun. >> i have to say, knowing nora and loving her as much as we did, and seeing how she always would be bringing people together at dinner parties. you sit there. you go. the least surprising thing about this story is that it was nora ephron who put you two together.

>> absolutely. delia didn't remember any of it, but when peter rutter, delia's now husband, had reached out to her after she wrote this great op-ed in "the new york times," "love and hate on hold with verizon" is what it was called, and she got all this mail on her website from people who had had the same issues. >> right. >> and this man reached out, peter, and said, actually, your sister, nora, set us up when we were 18. delia's husband had just died. peter rutter's wife had just died. they fell in love over email, which is another confluence of events. delia ephron wrote "you've got mail," which is all about people falling in love over email. >> of course. let's read from delia ephron's "new york times" op-ed entitled "love and hate on hold with verizon." she writes in part this, "i know it's not a good idea to hate

anyone. i know from an article i read that negative emotions are bad for my health. i would hate to have a heart attack because my internet isn't working. but i do hate verizon. this all began because i disconnected one of my two landlines. i don't need two landlines now that i don't have jerry. this is the only chance i have attempted to make in my entire life since my husband died, and it has obviously not gone well. one of my friends, not a psychic, suggested that jerry did not want me disconnecting his phone, but honestly, that doesn't sound like jerry. his voice was on the answering service, and i recorded it on my cell phone before asking for the disconnect." >> so this is where it all began. >> yes. >> talk about how peter connects. >> well, he read that piece in

"the new york times," and as we say in the play, it turns out everybody hates their cell provider. it was a spectacularly successful piece. but he had just lost his wife. he remembered quite vividly the dates they had. of course, delia had no recollection of any of the date, much less that there was more than one. so he'd been looking to reconnect with her and did through the website and wrote to her. she wrote back. what began a lengthy email exchange, which culminated in -- >> a romance. >> -- a meeting. >> wonderful. >> are you finding this story is resonating with people you're performing in front of each and every night? not just responding from the crowd, perhaps people who have similar stories? >> it's been overwhelmingly joyful and incredibly moving to see the audience's reactions. when we go out the stage door afterwards, we're probably there for half an hour talking to people. >> wow. >> we've had everyone -- also, it is a romantic comedy, but it also deals with -- nora ephron died of myelodysplastic disease.

it can morph into leukemia, aml. delia was a match to be her donor. but when they tested delia's blood, they found out her marrow was a little wonky. those are her words. >> yeah. >> she couldn't be nora's match for a bone marrow transplant. nora died in 2012. her husband, jerry, died of cancer in 2015. she was in this incredibly sad place in her life. when peter comes into her life, she says, i'm not sure i want to do this because i could get what nora had. but he came blessed by nora. she'd set them up years ago. the confluence of events that happens, and peter rutter is a psychoanalyst. he sees the world very differently, and the people who respond to this play, first of

all, transplant patients. science is amazing. six years after nora died, you don't have to have an exact match. they do a half blood cord transplant, taking a donor from a baby cord blood a mother donates after giving birth, and an adult donor, and you can -- it's a very, very -- it's a 20% chance. she made it. >> yeah. >> this is a story about grief, right, and carrying on through grief. i've been writing about it. i'm curious, as you do this, it's both joyful and, right, there's this idea that we have these long second acts, third acts. do you feel affected by it? >> absolutely. it's a roller coaster. it's joyful, sad, moving. there's so much hope in this play. i think people walk away. the other night, we were on the autographing line. this widower and a widow, they

were like, i'm a widower. i'm a widow. we met. we found each other. this play is us. >> it's gratifying to see the extent to which the people in the audience, not necessarily accustom to identifying with what they might be seeing on a broadway stage, if it's all of a sudden, they recognize themselves, and people they love or people they've lost. it hits them in a powerful way. it's not what they were expecting at all. when you're at our stage in life, no one is really writing too many shows for you. usually, you're trying to catch up to what the popular culture thing is. instead, here is your -- you suddenly have permission to grieve. you have permission to not feel alone. permission to sort of give those coincidences, those confluences, as we call it in life, you know, validity and value. ultimately, where there is life, there is hope. there are second chances. it's powerful to see it. i had no idea what the show was, and i lost my wife two years ago. >> yeah.

>> it's what i love more than anything, contributing to a story that has a place in the world you live in. it's gratifying. >> looks like you guys are having so much fun, too. >> we are. >> no point doing it otherwise. >> exactly. >> it's sort of a real-life version. you talked about "you've got mail." >> 100%. >> i think i've seen that about as much as i've seen "it's a wonderful life." this is the real-life version. >> it's true. >> everything is true. >> everything is true. even their emails they're writing that we had to memorize, it's their emails. >> no way. you kidding me? >> peter said, i wish i hadn't used some of that language. he has to hear it every time. >> "left on tenth" is playing now at broadway's st. james earle jones -- james earl jones theater for a limited engagement through february 2nd. james earl jones theater. not st. james theater. >> he was a saint. >> deserves it.

>> he does. >> you were asking about how long. i mean, we have been doing this 18 years. this is the end of four hours. you're allowed to call him a saint. >> hour and 40 minutes, no intermission, which people really love. >> i love that. >> oh! >> you're in and out. >> that's the catch. >> co-stars. >> i know. >> sneak out at intermission. i will stay. >> we know joe. >> it's over before you know it. >> peter gallagher and julianna margulies, thank you very much. watch your step! that's why visionworks makes it simple to schedule an eye exam that works for you. even if you have a big trip to plan around. thanks! i mean, i can see you right now if that's...convenient. visionworks. see the difference. whether you need to lose 10, 20, 50, or over 100 pounds, make the healthy choice with golo. head to golo.com that's g-o-l-o.com

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welcome to this special holiday edition of "morning joe." happy new year. we're on tape this morning, bringing you some of our best, recent conversations, including this one. "time" magazine named its 2024 person of the year. [ applause ] >> all right. donald trump ringing the opening bell at the new york stock exchange. it's connected to "time" magazine choosing him as its person of the year. "time's" editor in chief, sam jacobs, joins us now. good to have you with us. >> sam, i don't know if this will be a controversial pick or not. it's hard to not, given how "time" has always said, for good or will, the ill, the person wh impacted the year. we had a trial. we had an assassination attempt. we had the most tumultuous

campaign in modern history. we had rhetoric that, at least we thought around this table, was the most divisive in recent american history. then we had a victory where donald trump improved in 49 of 50 states. talk about this year, this vertiginous year. >> joe, you've made the case for why donald trump is "time's" 2024 person of the year. we are living in the age of trump. i think many people thought, perhaps after his defeat in 2020, that his first presidency was an aberration. but what this election shows is it was not. he is continuing a path through american politics. i think in some ways, because we've been living in that age for nearly a decade now, the sheer extraordinary nature of this year is hard to take notice of. you just walked us through those

events. each one of those events is going to be a moment in time that historians will be writing about for years. >> take us behind the scenes as best you can of the selection process. some other nominees, prime minister benjamin netanyahu of israel. vice president harris, who trump defeated in the election. elon musk, joe rogan, and others. talk to us about the conversations and why the choice became clear that it was trump. >> some years, this is a hard, hard choice. mika, last year we talked about taylor swift and the decision behind that. this year, not a hard choice. we certainly asked president-elect about many of the people you mentioned, and he has opinions about all of them, but this was an obvious decision for those of us at "time." >> when i look at this, i agree, it had to be donald trump. the moment was the shooting in butler, pennsylvania. people forget history. you say a year, 1973, their minds scramble, what happened that year? >> right. >> but that moment where he's bleeding and saying, "fight, fight, fight," and that moment

is when bobby kennedy jr. made an effort to go see trump, talk about assassination, what happened with his father, and that moment, elon musk endorsed him. it kind of coalesced for trump. then the symbol in milwaukee for the republican national committee, was it the bandaged ear? >> yeah. >> at that point, it started looking like it was going to be the year of trump. only one on the list that could have replaced that would have been harris if she had won. we'd be talking about our first woman president. but, alas, that didn't happen. >> i think that is a transformational moment for trump and the country. we asked him about it. he said a lot of people changed how they thought about me during that moment. it is harder to get him to talk about how it changed him, but he recognizes that. a moment when he moves from being a factional political leader to a cultural. >> correct. >> symone, do you have a question? >> yeah. i'm interested in the conversation, the interview that the president-elect did that

goes along with the endorsement. he said a number of things i was struck by. his admission that, you know, you might not be able to get grocery prices down. this isn't his first time on the list. can you tell us a little about the interview? i know people should definitely take a stab and go read it because it's great. >> i don't think there is a news organization that spent more time on the record with president-elect trump this year than "time." this is incredibly revealing. happy to talk about his thoughts on foreign policy, domestic policy. this is someone we spent time with in the spring and, again, talked with him for 65 minutes at mar-a-lago thanksgiving week about pretty much everything. >> did you notice any changes between trump pre-election and post-election? >> we found him to be much more subdued, lower volume, i think reflective would be an overstatement, but doing a level of introspection we hadn't seen before. trump is most comfortable in a fight. what we saw was someone who felt like he'd won the fight and is now searching to figure out what his positioning is.

he said to us, it's actually sad that this is over, that this will never happen again. he seems happiest on a campaign stage, in a campaign, and he's starting to think through what it means for this to be his last campaign. >> maggie haberman, who knows him as well as any journalist, always said that if you want to understand donald trump, you have to understand that his entire life, he's been fighting to survive the next five minutes. five minutes at a time. now, you're suggesting that fight, at least politically, is over. >> over the course of 65 minutes with him, we found him to realize that that's done. >> i mean, that political fight for the next campaign is what i'm saying. >> he's thinking about which of my kids is going to have a role? which of my family members? we asked, what is the future of maga without trump? he has trouble answering that question. >> interesting. "time" magazine editor in chief, thank you so much. we appreciate it.

>> i want to be very clear, i'm not talking about how -- he's not stopping fighting, but, again, the political fight that he's been in nonstop since 2012, 2013, that's now at an end. unless, of course, he wants to fight to run for a third time. >> i think he wants to position himself as a globe state person. i think he sees that like eisenhower when he came in, won big in '52, got out of korea by june of '53. >> right. >> i think he's going to roll in there and say, what can i do with syria, israel, gaza situation, russia, ukraine? can i now run for something larger than the presidency? like global leader and work with china, russia, and in a big-time, old-style, summit way. >> uh-huh. presidential historian doug brinkley, thank you very much.

symone sanders townsend, thank you, as well. we'll be watching "the weekend," saturdays and sundays starting at 8:00 a.m. here on msnbc. let's turn back to politics now. in his interview with "time" magazine conducted late last month for "time's" person of the year, which he was named yesterday, donald trump did not give a clear answer on whether he would allow his pick for secretary of health and human services, robert f. kennedy jr., to end childhood vaccine programs. trump also appeared to draw a false link between vaccines and autism, one that has been debunked many, many time over the years. telling "time," quote, we're going to have a big discussion. the autism rate is at a level nobody ever believed possible. if you look at things that are happening, there's something causing it. when asked directly if he believes vaccines are linked to autism, trump answered in part, "i'm going to be listening to bobby," referring to kennedy who promoted the debunked theories, connecting autism to vaccines.

trump said he'd be willing to get rid of some vaccines if he thinks they are unsafe. when pressed again on whether he agreed with rfk jr.'s discredited belief that vaccines are linked to autism, trump answered in part, "i want to see the numbers. it's going to be the numbers." he claimed his administration will be conducting studies. adding, quote, "we will know for sure what's good and what's not good." let's bring in former chairman of the republican national committee now, co-host of "the weekend" on msnbc, michael steele, and nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. good morning to you both. vaughn, i want to start with you because you conducted a memorable interview with bobby kennedy jr. just a couple of weeks ago. you asked him many of these same questions about his plans for vaccines, his plans for fluoride in the water. just to remind our viewers where he stands on some of that stuff. it won't be a waving of a wand if he does become secretary of hhs to just get rid of these vaccines. >> right, there's going to be a lot of layers of bureaucracy

it'll take for him to wade through in order to pull that off here. but i think one interesting note about bobby kennedy is the fact that donald trump is usually not deferential to others. he usually is convinced about knowing the answers himself. over the course of the last month, we have consistently seen from donald trump, him saying he'll leave this in the hands of bobby kennedy to essentially tell him what to do and which direction to go. since bobby kennedy was dominated to be hhs secretary, we also have to pay attention to dave welden, nominated by donald trump to take over the cdc. they go back to the early 2000s in which they'd reference each other's works, pointing out the idea that there is a preservative in vaccines that was the cause and link to autism. peer-reviewed scientific research has consistently shown an inability to find such a link. at the same time, kennedy is being put atop, being put within proximity of the next president of the united states.

yesterday, on the floor of the stock exchange, i was covering donald trump as he rang in the bell. who was there with him? bobby kennedy. there is an access to donald trump and an openness that is, i think, particularly unusual from the incoming president, an openness to somebody else's opinion and ultimate word on policy that should be enacted. that's a lot of power that bobby kennedy could be potentially yielding in the months ahead. up next, conservative "new york times" columnist david french calls donald trump a lucky man. says it's all due to joe biden. we'll explain when "morning joe" comes right back. new eroxon ed treatment gel. are you looking for a walk-in tub, for you, or someone you love? well, look no further. january is bath safety month. and for a limited time, when you purchase your brand-new safe step walk-in tub you'll receive a free safety package. and if you call today,

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on the subject of foreign policy, conservative columnist david french has a new piece for "the new york times" that caught caught our eye. titled "biden has a pair of gifts for trump." "donald trump is a lucky man. he is inheriting a growing economy and weakened enemies in 2025. if trump wants to capitalize on our enemies' weaknesses, he'll have to shed at least some of his isolationism. trump is far more self-interested than idealogical. in an american retreat in syria, the sight of russian troops marching in kyiv, or an iranian nuclear bomb would all be deeply humiliating to him. they'd signal american weakness, which would signal trump's weakness. trump's vanity may save us from trump's isolationism, but it's a poor proxy for a coherent

national security strategy. trump is a fortunate man. he is inheriting the conditions for profound foreign policy success, but he is also inheriting the possibility of failure. the troubling realities that his instincts are wrong. his national security picks are flawed, and he may well snatch a series of terrible defeats from the jaws of extraordinary military and diplomatic success. that is david french writing in "the new york times" this morning. elise, what do you make of david's point? which is, joe biden actually, for all the criticism from donald trump, has left trump in a pretty good position here. >> i like david, but i really don't agree with that argument very much. i think that the world, as richard haass would say, is in disarray right now. i think that i'm not going to lay all of that on president biden, but it's just coming into a very perilous point. i do think the save face aspect of donald trump and he is so reactive to bad press will, you

know, mean we're not going to have some crazy retreat into isolationism the way that some have predicted. he is going to try to save face no matter what. so i don't really think that that's exactly -- i just don't want to see, you know, bombing tehran. i don't want to see hard core action immediately. we're not going to see any of that, i don't think. >> i mean, that's possible. let's remember, he was this close to pulling out of nato back in 2018, on the eve of the putin helsinki summit. it is interesting, mike, that in the interview with "time" magazine that was released yesterday, he acknowledged that it was going to be harder to deal with ukraine, russia conflict than he originally promised, saying he'd get it done in 24 hours. he might want to leverage u.s. military aid to bring an end to this. he suggested the situation in the middle east was thorny and wasn't going to be as easy as he talked about on the campaign trail. there are some grown-ups in the

room, marco rubio's secretary of state, as we prepare for a second trump term. how do you see a trump foreign policy doctrine 2.0? >> jonathan, i was sentenced to washington, d.c., for a couple of days this week. >> we saw. our hearts went out. >> company town. you mentioned marco rubio. right now, he is the most interesting nominee of donald trump's, secretary of state. it'll be interesting to see which direction he wants to take the administration in terms of foreign policy. the national security adviser, who has already been named, is a good, solid pick that everybody likes. but you're looking at a situation where i'm told the immediate question is, is syria going to be a failed state, like almost immediately? is it going to be balkanized? what is turkey's role going to be in the future of syria? what are the russians going to do in regard to propping up their existing naval base and military bases in syria?

are they going to play ball with any other countries? who is going to run syria? it is an enormous question because it spills over into the israeli wars with gaza. israel is still operating every day as if they are at war, and they are at war every day. the impact that the israeli attacks have in lebanon and syria, what effect has that had on the whole situation? then, after you finish worrying about that, ukraine. what's going to happen in ukraine? is that going to be resolved within the next 90 days, within the next six months, or is it never going to be resolved? i mean, something has got to happen there. the ukrainians are running low on manpower. it's a very small nation compared to russia. putin doesn't care about life. he just feeds, feeds anyone into the battle. the casualties that they've suffered, russia has suffered, are enormous. so how are you going to handle

this when you don't know who is going to be secretary of defense, when you don't know who is going to be the -- who is going to replace tulsi gabbard, director of national intelligence in the white house. how are you going to handle this from within the administration? that's almost as big a problem as america's role in the world. to play a role in the world, you have to be shipshape here at home going forward. >> there's a lot on the chess board, and donald trump conceding in the "time" person of the year interview that ukraine going to be a little more complicated than he led on during the campaign. still ahead, the new "forbes" list of the most powerful women is out. mika talks to maggie mcgrath and huma abedin about who made it, when "morning joe" returns. gl. have you always had gl. trouble with your weight? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds.

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while i have maggie and huma here, we're looking at the "forbes" list of the 100 most powerful women, highlighting the world's most inspirational female ceos, entertainers, politicians, philanthropists, policymakers, and more. let's dive into the mix. it's a really complex picture of female power, maggie. >> it is a complex picture. i'm glad you used that word because we've seen over the course of the year a series of regressive forces against female power. on the 2024 list, you won't see some names you saw last year. like karen lynch, the former ceo of cvs. or the outgoing vice president, kamala harris. but the women on this list are defying those global headwinds

and commanding a significant amount of power. at number one, ursula van der leien. third year in a row at the number one spot. christine lagarde, head of the central bank, hugely important for monetary policy. at number four is someone making her debut to the list. claudia steinbaum, mexico's president. she won by a large margin in june, and we'll be watching her in the new year as the trump administration enacts tariffs. >> absolutely. >> we have a lot of women also alongside her who are newcomers to the list, who are the first in their position. we have rachel reeves. uk's chancellor of the british equivalent of the treasury secretary. she is the first woman in 800 years to hold that role. she's 39 on the list. at 55, we have bonnie chan, ceo of the hong kong exchanges and clearing, which operates the

hong kong stock exchange. it's the ninth largest in the world. significant financial power. if i can get one more in. we have breaking news at "forbes." we are announcing our first eve taking the role in january, first in 107 years. >> that's amazing congratulations to sherry. huma, a number of women in politics and policy also made the list. many who rode a populist wave to their positions in power. what can you tell us about sort of this shift to the right globally, how it's affecting female leadership? >> i thought it was an interesting list. you know, power is a pendulum. that pendulum is certainly swinging right. not all power is progressive power or good power. number three on the list is the post-fascist prime minister of italy.iorgia meloni.

i remember being there in 2022 and people being concerned she'd be this very authoritarian figure. she's really balanced that out with the pragmatism and sort of steady leadership. she's number three on the list. i think the fact that we have seven eu countries that now have far-right representation in their governments, she's going to be a key contact, i think, for our incoming administration and that entire continent, frankly. another interesting political person on the list is susie wiles, who makes her debut at number 72 on the list. >> there you go. >> mika, you question why, you know, somebody like susie wiles takes on this campaign. i think what she brought to donald trump's campaign is steady leadership. the chaos and disorganization we'd heard in years past, past elections, went away. she's worked for republicans across the idealogical spectrum. i think it is very interesting to see what steadiness -- >> she will be very interesting

to watch. i totally agree. fascinated with that. maggie, there's someone unexpected in the number 100 spot. tell us about her. >> so excited to tell you about her. she is caitlin clark. >> yay. >> she broke the ncaa scoring record for men and women earlier this year. she has driven unprecedented attention to women's basketball, women's sports as a whole. we spoke with coach dawn staley earlier this year. i asked dawn, i said, women have been playing at a high level for so many decades. why has it taken until now for women sports to have a breakthrough moment? coach staley told us, sometimes you need a unifier, and that unifier is caitlin clark. >> that's cool. >> people want to watch her. the wnba recorded record viewership this year. it's translating to money. there was a $2 billion tv rights deal announced earlier this year. sources tell us that women's sports are just getting started. caitlin clark takes our number

100 spot as someone who has driven the narrative of the year. >> dawn, 50 over 50 lister, to my next point, huma, a lot of overlap with the 50 over 50 list, where these women that we're honoring with our effort and our 30/50 summit, 50 over 50 list, are showing women sometimes reaching their highest power, greatest impact, and even finding the happiness that's eluded them much later in life. >> number eight is melinda french gates. on your list. i think she's also on the 50 over 50 list. she's one of the most powerful women in philanthropy. since we spoke to elizabeth alexander, just the fact she made a commitment to $1 billion to support women and girls' causes over the next three years. that's real investment. >> yes. >> we will see real impact. that's exciting. number 44 on the list is janet

trunkauly. the first woman to lead a big four audit firm. i love she started in 1991 as an intern, and now she leads 400,000 employees with $50 billion in revenue. >> hello. >> annually. >> we'll be announcing our fourth annual 50 over 50 global list right here on "morning joe" next month. stay tuned for that. maggie mcgrath and huma abedin, as always, thank you so much. great to see you guys. this week, we're bringing you my conversation with former president bill clinton, where he talked about his life after the white house and his thoughts on today's democratic party. he reflected on his achievements as we toured his presidential library and museum in little rock, arkansas, now celebrating its 20th anniversary. >> the library is absolutely gorgeous. >> thank you. >> for those that are looking at

it, wondering where the inspiration was architecturally, tell us about it. >> well, first, i wanted it to be full of light. it is. you know, that's the arkansas river. >> right. >> it rolls along it. but this room and the one below it has all this open lighting because it's modelled on the long room at trinity college dublin, where the library is. and that is right across the green from where i had a rally as president. when we went there promoting our peace process, so it has a dual meaning to me. >> so we see a lot of books here. what are these records of? >> these are the official records of the administration.

if somebody asked us, you know, under the for freedom of information, citizens have a right to know what you did under their dime. >> we have state dinners, of course gifts you got from the state dinners. were those mainny ly ceremony, did you get work done there that made a significant difference? >> at the dinners, per se, rarely was anything happening between me and someone else that got work done. but i had all my senior people there, and so did they. a lot of those things worked. >> did get worked. >> to our benefit. now, if we had, like, on st. patrick's day, we have an irish dinner, i did get a lot done. it provided cover for both sides to come upstairs and meet with me and talk through things, see

where we were. everybody knew it was going on and wasn't really reported on because nobody could prove it was happening. >> right. >> we helped. >> i've got to ask about this ping putter here. it caught my eye. you kept this in your office, right? >> yeah. >> some of the things you kept in your office. >> i saved all this sporting stuff. i've got a lot of baseball memorabilia i like. i had a baseball ball mays, wil >> gosh. >> most valuable. >> famous home run in 1960. >> yup. >> incredible. could i ask you, how important was it for you, and we've seen other presidents do this, too, to get out and golf, like to be outside? >> i could be on the first tee ten minutes after i left the white house.

>> wow. >> there were lots of times when i went there late in the afternoon and, just for nine holes of golf. i might be on the 4th or 5th hole before i hit a good shot because you can't -- you can't do anything but play if you're going to play, right? you can't be thinking about all this stuff. >> right. >> but it was ib ncredibly helpl to me, and i loved playing there. i was very grateful. >> helped you clear your head? >> yeah. >> obviously. >> you needed just to -- you had to let it go. >> from all the work. >> these are some of the saxophones given to me. these are just some of them. we may add to them or change them around. they really were great. >> mr. president, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> such a great honor. always wonderful to see you. >> president clinton's memoir "citizen" is available now. up next, two-time emmy

nominee ron purnum will join the conversation to talk about his film "day of the fight." "morning joe" will be right back. ck

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what's think hear, you're fighting tonight? it's big. >> you can still go 12 rounds. >> today is my last day. >> sorry i didn't give you more.

just remember the good. >> whichever way it goes tonight, know we're proud of you. >> no matter what happens, i need to know that you'll pay. >> i love you, you know i do, but you have to let things go. >> i have nothing. i got no wife. i got no kid. i got nothing. >> sorry i wasn't the son that you wanted. >> i think the people that really matter in your life are far more willing to forgive than you might expect. >> that was a look at the new film "day of the fight." premiering at the venice film festival last year. it follows the boxer, mike flanagan, and his father figure, stevie, as they try to build up the champion to his first fight in years following his time in prison. critics have been raving about

the film with "the new york times" review calls it, quote, an unabashed genre picture that managed to be the kind of movie they supposedly don't make like they used to, and also something bracingly fresh. those are good words. joining us now, "day of the fight" co-star, ron perlman, who plays stevie, and the film's director, producer, and writer, jack huston, making his directorial debut. >> congratulations. >> congrats to you both. jack, let's start with you. your first time behind the camera. why this film? why now? >> i think i wasn't in any rush to get behind the camera. i think, you know, i had to find something that really called to me. something that made me not just want to don't but have to do it. when the story came to me, it was one of those moments where i -- it brought tears to my eyes when i thought of michael in this role. michael pitt, who plays our lead, irish mike.

i started putting it together. the things, the elements came together. yeah, you know, it's one of the great moments when you actually do get to go and make your first film, especially something which is as heartfelt and real as something like this. it's sort of a throwback, like "the new york times" was saying, to films that don't get made much anymore, which are human stories, adult stories, stories that make you feel something. i love going to the theater and feeling something. >> ron, tell us what drew you to this film and, in particular, your character. >> well, two words, jack huston. we go back a couple of decades. you know, to be a witness to somebody who is leaving his comfort zone, doing something he's never done before, which is writing and directing a movie,

which is a very daunting task to those of us who toil in this little art form, that's having a front row seat in something that is kind of heartwarming and historic. and i wanted to be there for that. i also found this script to be incredibly moving and resonate ing. the character he asked me to play was pivotal, and, you know, was going to have a major impact on the way the movie turned out. >> ron, let's take a look at a clip where we see the softer but still expletive-laden side of your character, stevie. >> hey, [ bleep ]. >> what the [ bleep ] you doing smoking? you can smoke a pack a day and

still go 12 rounds. >> today is my last day. >> you've been saying that for 20 years. get the [ bleep ] in here. it's freezing. >> hey, stevie, today i actually mean it. >> little pop in that thing. that's better. how you feeling? you get some sleep last night? >> yeah, kind of. you know. >> yeah, fight before a fight. [ bleep ] mind won't shut down. you had a crazy dream last night? >> yeah, this dream where we were in the meat market and -- >> ask me if i give a [ bleep ]. >> we had to have the finger hovering over the bleep button for that clip. >> yeah, you really chose a nice, benign little clip there. >> family friendly before 10:00 a.m. here on the east coast. ron, tell us, though, a little more about your character, but also just the cast. extraordinary. just a few, joe pesci, steve

buscemi, what an all-star cast is this. >> i know. it's great to, you know, feel like you're part of the at 27 yankees. yankees, a cast of murderer's row. in the center of it, and this is something that shows the infinite wisdom of jack huston and his insight into what was going to make this thing cook, was the performance of michael pitt. you see him in this, in his most raw state as an actor, the most courageous state as an actor. this is a personal, deep, feelingful moment, character who is asked to get his house in order. it's -- it was a privilege to be a part of it. it was a privilege to watch. it affected my game in an

infinite way. >> jack, fight movies in your family lineage, to an extent. what did you love about this story line, and talk about working with ron. >> well, i sort of set out to make a movie about a boxer, not a boxing movie. you know, it's all character. i wanted to make something relatable and something that asked this major question, which is, if you only had one day, what would you do? who would you see? what would you say to them? our sort of tagline is, how far would you go for the ones you love? the metaphor of the film is, the day of the fight isn't what he is fighting for in the ring. it is everything outside of the ring he's fighting for. he is fighting for everybody, every single thing. all those mistakes, redemptive journey. i mean, i was so lucky to get ron perlman. i've been sort of very fortunate

in my life, that i've got to work with my heros. ron being top of that list. that was, you know, a few years by a film that shall not be named. but we had such a great time off camera. >> yeah. >> best way of saying it. but i just needed somebody -- because, you know, mikey, he didn't have a father figure. his father was abusive. you know, very tough on him. you can see it. it comes out in the film. stevie, his coach, became that sort of father figure for him, that mentor. somebody who stood by him through thick and thin, through his mistakes, never wavers, was always there. the end of the film, he says, i could never have done this without you, stevie. the beautiful thing is, nobody embodies like this like ron. it's the most delicate, sympathetic, funny, abrasive, but he captures and caps it. all of these amazing feelings. he has the last line.

i watch ron, and it brings tears to my eyes. it's a beautiful performance. >> "day of the fight" is in select theaters now and will expand in theaters throughout december and january. director and producer jack huston and actor ron perlman, thank you very much. >> love you, ron. coming up, peter sarsgaard joins us with a look at his movie that covers the hostage crisis during the 1972 munich olympics and how it was broadcast live on television. "morning joe" is back in just a moment. see the difference.

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what's the situation? >> police, the armed terrorists have attacked. >> hostage situation going on right now in the olympic village. >> they want news to take over. >> you're sports. you're in way over your head. >> they're away from where this is happening. >> we're the only people capable of following it live. this is our story, and we're keeping it. >> what do i tell the cameras? >> what do you mean. >> can we show someone being shot on live television? >> we're on. >> the olympics was shattered this morning. the games are still going on. within a few hundred yards, nine terrified, living human beings are being held prisoner. >> that was a look at the movie "september 5," the film that goes inside the abc sports control room at the 1972 munich

olympics. a terrorist group took members of the israeli delegation hostage. in a whirlwind 22 hours, abc sports president, roone arledge and geoffrey mason have to stay in control of the story as live events play out on television. watched by 900 million people worldwide in real time. joining us now, co-stars of "september 5," peter sarsgaard, who plays roone, and john magaro, playing geoffrey mason, and the real geoffrey mason is with us, as well. serves as co-producer on the film. thank you for being here. geoffrey, we'll start with you. >> thank you. >> watching the trailer again, watching the moments you lived through, what is that like? >> it's an experience for me. i've never had anybody play me. there was never any reason for anybody to play me. it brings back how difficult

that day was. i still feel it when i think of it. the way peter and john played their roles in the movie is really, really accurate, really authentic. even though it is a dramatic recreation of what we went through that day, they nailed it. i'm proud to be part of it. >> peter, tell us what drew you to this story and, in particular, the r oone arledge, with geoffrey, caught in the middle of what became a defining television event. >> when it first came to me, actually, sean penn is one of our producers, and he actually was in my first movie i ever did, "dead man walking." so i looked at it in a different way, you know, it had his stamp on it. then i met the director, tim. for me, the most important thing with this story was that it be

told truthfully. it's about these guys trying to tell the story as it happens, in the most accurate way. if we had had someone who was interested in hyperbole, it would have thrown off the whole message of the movie. this guy was obsessive. you know, like the equipment was going to be the actual equipment. he wanted to use this documentary footage. then he showed me some of it. seeing jim mckay on that day, i saw we had a fantastic leading man. >> john, what was it like to play geoff? >> what a challenge. >> oh, really? >> look at this. >> complex -- >> why was it such a channel?ll? >> looking in a mirror right there. it's weird. no, first of all, there were so many people we wanted to honor, who were in that control room. obviously, the victims and everyone on that day. sometimes when you're playing a real person who exists, it's kind of a detriment.

but geoff was a vital resource for me, in more ways than one. he was a vital resource for the entire production. the reason we got the 22 hours of footage from disney, you know, a different company, was because of geoff and his -- how revered he is in the broadcast world. it was an honor. i'm just happy that he feels like i got it right. >> geoff, let's talk about, we alluded to it, this tension between the sports side and the news side of abc, as to who is controlling what was happening that day. how did sports end up winning? >> we mentioned it in the movie. abc news in new york was quite anxious to get on top of the biggest story on the planet. roone arledge spent a lot of time on the phone talking to new york during that day. basically refused to hand it over to news. the whole story was developing

100 yards from our broadcast center. there was really no reason that we could see to give it back to, you know, a host in new york. why would we want to do that? so roone won the argument. he kept it. we knew we had it. we knew we were capable of telling the story the way it should be told. it turned out well. >> the numbers, 900 million viewers. 9-0-0. at what point in the day did you realize how big and how momentous what was happening, horrific, but you were there and at the scene of it? >> elise, we were so busy. we never thought about it that day. we were too busy, truthfully. the next day, when jim mckay got a telegram from walter cronkite, saying, in essence, well done. you told the story beautifully. couldn't have been done better. then we began to understand, ah-ha, okay, we did have more of

a footprint than we thought. >> let's take a look at another clip from the film where some unexpected visitors make their presence felt in the abc sports control room. >> what's going on? >> time-out. >> whoa, whoa. >> [ bleep ]. >> nuts? >> you do not point a gun at my crew. jesus christ. all live cams off. three charlie, that's you, too, turn the tower cam off. happy? >> hey, hey, hey, is going on here? >> they took us off the air. >> sam stein, next question is yours. >> let me just say, first of all, that it looks like an amazing film. "munich," by steven spielberg, detailing aftermath of the incident, was also an amazing film. i have a question for john or peter, honestly. the production of this film clearly took place during or in the aftermath of october 7th. we've had this very intense political debate around, you

know, acts of terrorism, responses, culpability for them. obviously, this movie isn't necessarily about that. it's about a news coverage of a terrorist incident. but to a degree, was that in the back of your mind as you sought to portray these news men covering this horrific event? if so, how did it affect your acting? >> well, i mean, october 7th hadn't happened when we started shooting this. in fact -- >> we were done editing. >> done editing when that event tragically occurred. but i don't think it would have changed anything in the way i approached it. this is a story about the media and the media's response to tragic events and how we as consumers of these events from our homes, now on our phones, through all these devices, are -- how it is given to us. i think we wanted to show this time when the media forever changed. that was our goal. it was never to be political or apolitical. this is a crisis that has been

going on for decades. you could argue millenia. there was no way we were going to solve it. i think we wouldn't have been honoring the people on that day and the crew on that day if we tried to do it any other way. i just want to say that this was bound to happen. technology had reached that point. whether it was that conflict or a different conflict, it was inevitable. just so happens that was the tragedy that was unfolding. >> yeah, and if anything, the events of october 7th amplified the issues that the movie is about. issues of journalism. >> yeah, no question there. the new movie "september 5" is playing in select theaters beginning today. it goes nationwide starting january 17th. co-stars peter sarsgaard and john ♪ jingle bells ring slowing and glowing ♪ ♪ ♪