we have an important show tomorrow ahead of the four-year anniversary of january 6th. we will talk to congressman benny thompson, timothy heaphy and marcus childress, all major players on the january 6 select committee that starts back here tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. eastern. be sure to follow us on social media @theweekend. velshi will continue our coverage right now. ali, such an important time remembering the life and legacy of president jimmy carter. >> and he would appreciate it, simone, if you got a little rest. i brought you a pillow, because last night i finished tv at 10:00 p.m. at night and there you were starting. i remember those days well, when i used to do that late show and

then do your early hours. so, i offer you this. i hope you get a little rest today because tomorrow and the rest of this week will be pretty busy. "velshi" starts now. ♪♪ and good morning. it is saturday, january the 4th. this morning, the state funeral services will begin in georgia for the former president jimmy carter who died at the age of 100 last sunday. you're looking right now at the fee by medical center where minutes from now we expect to see jimmy carter's casket publicly for the first time as it's carried out to a hearse. we expect to see the carter family will be in the motorcade to pass through plains georgia, and stop in front of the farm where he grew up later this hour. the motorcade is then going to make its way to atlanta, where carter will lie in repose at the carter presidential center until

tuesday morning before his body makes its way to washington, d.c. next week. we'll be monitoring these events. we will bring these images to you through the course of the show as they happen. but first, we're going to turn to capitol hill where republicans have now officially taken control of both chambers of congress as the 119th congress gavelled into session yesterday. republicans got off to a much smoother start this time around than they did two years ago, you'll recall. when the house was brought to a standstill for days because of a bitter and protracted battle for the speakership, that's the first thing that has to happen in a new congress. kevin mccarthy ultimately won that election after 15 rounds of voting, but he would be booted from the chair just 269 days later in the third shortest tenure in history. his successor, mike johnson, managed to avoid a long, drawn-out contest in order to win re-election as speaker yesterday by the narrowest of elections. there are signs of trouble for

republicans, signaling this is the still divided, chaos on capitol hill over the past few years. although johnson did technically win the speakership on the first ballot, three republicans initially voted for somebody else and six others with held their votes when their names were first called. all but one of them ultimately voted or changed their vote for johnson before the first round of balloting was closed. the lone republican defector who did not vote for johnson was the congressman thomas masse of kentucky who had been vocal of johnson. minutes after johnson's victory, the ultraconservative house freedom caucus outlined their demands and expectations of the speaker. they also added that they voted for johnson, quote, despite our sincere reservations regarding the speaker's track record over the past 15 months, end quote. for his part, johnson told

reporters he wants this to be more member-driven and he's been, quoting aiming to decentralize the speaker office's power. how small and decal the majority in the house truly is. there are big and important issues, including funding for the federal government, border security and addressing the debt ceiling. but it appears there are still deep disagreements within the republican party regarding process, procedures and policies. and there's not much room for error if they want to advance donald trump's agenda without working or compromises with house democrats. republicans need to stay remarkably tight and united which isn't exactly what this current group of republicans is known for. joining me now, norm, american enterprise institute, the author of the book "one nation under trump, a guide for the perplexed, disillusioned, desperate and not yet deported." john walsh joins me as well, the

host of the podcast social contract with joe walsh, the author of book "f silence." thank you for being with us. joe, you and i were having a conversation on monday before all this happened and that was the idea that the republican conference is somewhat decentralized. going back to the days when you were an active member of the tea party. mike johnson says he wants to be more member centric, he wants more decentralized, he wants the speakership to perhaps be weaker. and that suits anywhere from the six to the 38 members of the freedom caucus who want more power for themselves. talk to me about that goal and how it fits in with the agenda and the things that have to happen in this congress. >> ali, good to be with you. it's a noble goal on paper. john boehner, who was speaker back when i was in the house to wrestle in us tea party members, he tried to do the same. in practice, it's really, really

difficult because things need to get done. and boehner had a much wider margin than speaker mike johnson does today. so, i think it's -- i think it's really impossible. and i think -- even though i expected mike johnson to become speaker fairly smoothly, ali, what happened yesterday just portends two years of utter chaos and dysfunction in the house because -- and a lot of it is with how thin the margin is. the ultra extreme freedom caucus folks -- and i used to be ultra extreme, but what's different about the ultra extreme members now, and norm can speak to this, is we were tea participant back then but we were primarily driven by issues. these folks today are all free agents and they're primarily driven by their own self interest. and it's much more difficult to corral them. >> norm, this is an interesting

point. it may be even deeper than driven by issues and driven by this remarkable anti-government and governance that's going on, that's where we seem to be heading into trouble. things that congress has to do, get a budget, do appropriations, manage the debt ceilings, pass bills, a bunch of people who don't want to see that succeed in this freedom caucus. >> that's exactly right, ali. and they're driven not by ideology but theology. they're really ani lists but believe if we blow up all of government everything will be great. i have to say about these people the only word that is more verboten for them than trans is compromise. and you know, joe talked about john boehner, driven from the speakership, replaced by paul ryan, who was one of them but who also said, i am going to bring the freedom caucus into all of the deliberations.

he did and it didn't make a difference. and he was driven out of the speakership. mike johnson has a leash that is about this long when it comes to his own members. the only way, as you said, he is going to be able to get spending bills through, a debt ceiling increase, is by relying on democrats, by hakeem jeffries what they have done in the past which is to pass these bills under suspension that takes two thirds and means you have to get the vast majority of democrats and a smaller number of republicans. and every time he does that, he drives these freedom caucus people further into a rage against him. so, remember, they're going to have 217 to 215 once these two people, elise stefanik and mike waltz are moved out and into the trump administration, there's no margin for error, and it's going to be a catastrophe. >> joe, let me ask you about,

you know, in the last republican conference we had, i don't know, about 20, 22 people who were republicans who had won in districts that joe biden had won in. there are still some of those people, but some of them are not just driven by their electoral politics. it's the idea that they like their republican party back or they feel like they're at the vanguard of holding on to something that looks like a republican party. we'll talk later about what democrats have to do in this next conference, but what about those republicans? how influential are they? they seem to be a smaller number than the 38 who were prepared to go against donald trump and mike johnson. but are they powerful and influential in this congress? >> well, at one level, ali, they are because the margin is so slim, darn near every republican is unduly powerful. but really they're not. and again, i go back to when i was in congress in the tea party era, we were the minority. we were the clear minority in

the republican conference. i'll say this again, maga, the maga members, they're no longer the minority in the conference. this is a maga conference. and that's the other complicating factor here. what agenda are they pushing? donald trump's not conservative. donald trump doesn't give a damn about spending or the size of government. so, it's the trump agenda that they're -- that they're pushing, which is not a conservative agenda. it's a cruel, nationalistic agenda. that adds a real complicating kind of layer here. >> guys, i appreciate your time this morning. joe, thank you as always. norm, i want you to stick around with me through the break. we're going to be talking about former president carter on the other side. joe walsh, a former republican congressman from illinois. and a 2020 republican presidential candidate. he's the author of the book "f silence" calling trump out for the cultish, authoritarian con man he is. we're just moments away from the

start of the state funeral for former president jimmy carter. the carter family is about to arrive at the phoebe medical center. former and current service agents will carry carter's casket to the hearse before they continue to plains, georgia, then his boyhood home in archery and finally to atlanta. you're watching "velshi" on msnbc. ♪♪ ♪

♪♪ this is the motorcade that is escorting -- or has been escorting the family of former president jimmy carter, the 39th president of the united states. this is the first time we will be seeing the family. it's also the first time we'll be seeing the casket of the former president. this is the phoebe summiter medical center in americas,

georgia. that's the family, i believe, arriving now. what you will be seeing is the casket being put into the motorcade. the motorcade will then move from the medical center in americas, georgia, it will go through the farm and pass by and stop briefly at president carter's boyhood farm in which during the pause the national park service will salute the last president and ring the historic farm bell 39 times in celebration of the fact that he was the 39th president of the united states. and then the president will -- president's body will move ultimately toward atlanta, georgia. we'll, of course, be watching this all morning. this is phoebe medical summiter center. what's the situation? >> reporter: hey there, ali. that's right. the services are just getting underway. this is a multi-day event that's going to span the state of

georgia and eventually lead us to washington, d.c. until ultimately it will culminate with the former president's remains being buried in plains, georgia. of course, his hometown right next to his beloved wife rosalynn. but what you're looking at right now as you mentioned is the motorcade getting to phoebe-sumter medical center. there are some details, including former and secret service agents part of the carter protective division along with the carter family will be escorting those remains to his boyhood farm, as you mentioned. and members of the national park service there will be rendering a salute and ringing that historic bell 39 times. then the motorcade will start head heading towards atlanta. a few brief stops for any

mourners gathering to pay their respects. ultimately it will stop at the georgia state capitol, where governor kemp, along with the mayor of atlanta, andre dickens and other georgia state lawmakers and georgia state troop ers will have a moment of silence until ultimately his remains are brought to the carter center. the military will be doing a processional and flag bearing. eventually he will lie in repose at the carter center at 7:00 p.m. that's when the public is invited to come to pay their respects until 6:00 a.m. tuesday morning at which point his remains will be flown from here in atlanta to andrews air force base in washington, d.c. and then another professional will begin. a motorcade will take his body to the navy emorial.

brought to the capital rotunda where he'll lie in state. and then mourners there will have another opportunity to pay their respects. and ultimately, ali, the national funeral services will be held at the national cathedral in washington, d.c. on thursday. president biden has declared that a day of mourning. and he is expected to deliver a eulogy at that funeral service. and we're also expecting president-elect trump to be in atten attendance. of course, this is less than two weeks away from his inauguration. ali? >> these are the family members, first time we're seeing the family gathering. they are of course part of this motorcade you've been describing. you can see the bus, the family members have been getting out of and are ing there. then you will shortly see the casket carrying jimmy carter. you can see a bit of a stand, scaffolding there for

photographers and media to be able to get that shot. this of course, will be covered by a pool. in other words, you won't be seeing photographers from all the various media organizations. it will be a fairly controlled environment. you can see a marine photographer just walked behind the phoe bshs e be medical cent. we'll be covering that very closely. thank you, priya. i'm joined by norm, james, a chief white house speech writer. thank you for joining us, gentlemen, for this. james, you knew jimmy carter than most americans. a lot of things this week that surprised people. things people didn't know because he had this massive presidency and post presidency. in both of the chapters of his lives, there are things and little surprises, little things about him that the public didn't

know. what's the thing that stands out to you? i'm sure people have been asking you about this since his passing. >> something they would be surprising to most people is he was actually quite a good athlete. the public memory is nominated by that unfortunate episode and canoe and one time he was running a 10k run and he had an episode where he had to be helped more or less off the field. but the fact that he was doing a 10k president as president he was quite a good softball player and tennis player and runner and overall fit. also in keeping that he's remembered better for his post presidency because it lasted 11 times longer than his time in office did. he had many achievements especially in foreign policy. but i think it's also fitting that he lived long enough to change the world after leaving office. >> norm, let's talk about the

legacy of jimmy carter. later i'll talk policy things around iran and middle east and around inflation that are still with us today despite some stops and starts in between. but fundamentally, what do you think this man's legacy is going to be. and will it be very different than what we already know, as james points out, he had more post presidency than presidency. so we think we know most everything about him. and by the way,ly interrupt you gentlemen as we're talking as we see things that i want to point out to the viewers and shortly we'll see the casket. norm, go ahead and tell me what you think. >> so i think there are two elements to this, ali. one is we're seeing already some revision of the history of his presidency. books by stew, his long-time domestic policy adviser, jonathan alter, the historian and journalist that suggested his presidency was significantly more successful than common wisdom would have it. >> norm, hold that. hold that thought for just a

second, norm. these are former and current secret service members who are bearing the casket. this is the first time that the world is seeing the casket carrying the body of jimmy carter since his passing at the age of 100, last sunday. he has -- because of his post presidency and the length of it, he has had secret service the entire time. when i've met him, it's been his current and former secret service members around him. let's watch. this is the secret service carrying jimmy carter's casket to the hearse.

and the former and current seek rt service detail of former president carter putting his casket into the hearse. and they will begin a fairly long journey to atlanta, because there will be a few stops on the way, a few memorials on the way. but by the end of the day, his body will be in atlanta. norjs i'm sorry to have interrupted. we'll do that a lot as we watch this, because these are historic images. please carry on from where you are. >> what a remarkable sight, secret service detail from 40 years ago is there. anyhow, you think about the presidency the panama canal treaty, now that president-elect trump is trashing panama and that treaty, was an historic and truly important accomplishment. camp david accords, more than that. but we also had civil service reform. the creation of inspector's general. energy policy that transformed america in a lot of ways. many things that were done. and while carter was generally

disdainful of politics, the way in which he brought about the panama canal treaty, including luring in s.i., the famously recalcitrant then republican senator is a study of lore. but i would also add to this, the post presidency. i think an awful lot of americans, ali, think of carter as building houses through habitat for humanity into his 09s. some of his peace keeping efforts through the carter center. but he saved, literally, 10 to 20 million lives in africa through what he did with river blindness and the guinea worm. i had the opportunity, on election reform to have a one on one lunch with president carter. and he talked in a matter of fact way about what he had done with river blindness. but to africa. seen young people who were blinded by this parasite, lives

destroyed. and in a matter of fact way, he just talked how he learned that a very inexpensive sow could prevent it. he went to drug companies to give it for free. went to the african countries to make sure they would be distributed widely and not sold to make money. millions of lives saved. how many people would have that a a legacy? i think we'll learn that his presidency and post presidency were important and positive in a lot of ways. >> and james, i was talking to the ceo of habitat for humanity, he said people are still -- they still think jimmy carter founded the organization. he brought it to great prominence. the guinea worm situation, in 1986 when jimmy got involved fighting guinea worm, 3 million cases worldwide, james.

last year in 2024, there were 14. but interestingly, i don't know if you had any role in these comments, but at one point jimmy carter said, what's your biggest goal before you die? he said i would like to outlive the last guinea worm. i don't think -- he didn't get entirely there, but he got damn close. >> yes. that kind of remark is the sign of another part of carter's personality that wasn't generally part of the war, this kindly sunday school teaching, good hearted person, he had a very aseshic edge and would make a joke about wanting to have the last guinea worm die before him. i think also what you said about for habitat for humanity. it was there before he was and many other projects were as well. but the legitimacy and power that he could give to these causes as a former u.s. president with much higher esteem around the world initially than he did the united states, he could draw attention to them, sending a signal to

what x presidents could use their influence and name for. not just being on corporate boards, not simply for money raising partly for themselves but using this leverage and influence and convening power and attention-focussing power to address the things that were wrong in the world. you mentioned the voting commission, when there's time, i'll talk about some of his recent views on american democracy in this context. shall i mention that now? >> yes, go ahead. you know, he the other thing he stayed about was to stay alive long enough to vote. it was clear on the fact that democracy is central to this. it's not political ideology. >> indeed. and i had the great honor and pleasure about six weeks ago of being part of a ceremony in dayton, ohio, where the dayton peace accords, of course, assigned many decades ago where they give an annual life time achievement award in the cause of peace. called the dayton literary peace prizes. jimmy carter in absentia was the

awardee this year. i spent a fair amount of time there with two of his grandchildren, jason carter, who is well known as a political figure in georgia, and joshua carter, another grandchild. and joshua carter gave the closing speech of what he thought his grandfather would say were he there to speak about the state of u.s. democracy in elections, having surveyed this process around the world. this event was four or five days after the latest presidential elections. he said that he thought that his grandfather would have the long-term faith in matters of the heart and spirit and in american democracy. he always expressed but also he would be severely cautionary about the ways american democracy had become controlled by money after citizens united, according to jimmy carter, according to his grandson, was the worst decision in modern supreme court history, through gerrymandering, which made things polarized, through disinformation, via social media and other means.

so jimmy carter had lost none of his edge in assessing his own country. a tone very much like when he first ran for president, 1976, something is broken in our system. we need to address it and heal it. >> we are watching current and former members of the secret service detail for the 39th president of the united states escorting the hearse. this is the beginning of the state funeral of the former president of the united states. they are leaving the phoebe sum ter medical center. the family members are now in the motorcade. momentarily you will see this vehicle get under way with the motorcade behind it. that will be the beginning of jimmy carter's journey from here in a-mericus, georgia, to plains, georgia, to archery to atlanta where the president's body will lie in repose. norm, one of the interesting things that people think about

with jimmy carter is his complex history growing up in the jim crow south. his connection with people that was religious, that was his connection with african-american. one of the things you mentioned in john can alter's book, he writes this didn't come easily to jimmy carter. he was not always on the right side of the history. his father was a segregationist. and jimmy carter credits the people who helped him grow up with his understanding of race relations and the things that need to change. something he said as soon as he became governor of georgia. >> carter was a man of faith and a man who believed in humanity. and that really made a difference for him. and it made a difference in moving past that history of the south of his own family to become a leader in the civil rights.

couple of other things i would mention, ali. there was not a hint of scandal around jimmy carter for his entire life. he was screw pew louse making sure that his peanut farm wouldn't intrude on whatever he was doing as president. something that unfortunately we're seeing move to the opposite end as we approach the presidency of donald trump. which is basically a grifting operation. the second is that he really pioneered a role for the vice president that was a much more robust and significant one. the contrast with how lbj treated hue bert humphry and how jimmy carter dealt with and had a partnership with walter mondale began a different era and it's something that we saw carried out ahead with vice presidents under, you know,

other presidents that followed jimmy carter. this was a man who really did an awful lot of good things as president that somehow got lost in part because of the caricature, the rabid bunny-chasing after him in the canoe, the unfortunate failure in the desert and trying to rescue the hostages in iran. the sweater he wore as he tried to talk about ending inflation and dealing with the energy crisis. and the fact is he had a level of disdain for normal politics that wasn't healthy given what it takes to be president but we'll look at his presidency down the road, i think, maybe not as favorably as his post presidency, which is remarkable and enduring, but in a much more favorable light. i would also add, ali, that the

longevity of this man, i remember when he had a brain tumor and people thought he was not going to survive. >> yep. >> shortly after that, they did a big symposium on the university of minnesota ran it with george washington university and he did a dinner conversation with walter mondale moderated by dick mo, his chief of staff. you couldn't believe this man had any kind of an illment. he was funny. he was articulate. he knew everything. two years ago, i was at the ebenezer baptist church and saw his grandson jason, who believed at that point he had weeks to go and he lasted two more years plus. he's been in hospice for more than a year, i believe. really just remarkable physically as well as emotionally. >> james, jimmy carter -- we're watching this motorcade. at some point it may go out of our shot.

but this is what we've got. we have seen the family. there are emergency vehicles there as well, which would be typical of this situation. and of course, a great deal of security and current secret service. james, jimmy carter won the presidency during a remarkably tumultuous time, post-vietnam, post watergate. he had the energy crisis. he was the first president to put a solar panel on the white house. and then he got inflation and he got iran. and he left on those terms. in fact, he was arguably the last president who lost office because of inflation. and iran, which was an ally when he started his presidency, and an adversary when he ended his presidency, not his fault, that's how it went. it remains an unresolved issue to this day, but it is remarkable how a man who is president that many years ago was dealing with issues that are entirely central to our reality today. energy and the climate, iran,

inflation, the middle east. >> indeed. and political division. i think it's worth remembering two things simultaneously true. many things but i'll mention these two. carter did better as a president than most people thought at the time. and in the immediate aftermath. it's worth noting that his approval ratings during his first nearly full year in office were higher than any president since then. hire than ronald reagan, higher than barack obama, you name it. came in a damaged and tumultuous time in u.s. history, after richard nixon, the first appointed president of gerald ford, just after the fall of seguin with the wounds of vietnam raw, the beginning of energy shocks, of gas lines unprecedented in american history, run away inflation. i got my first mortgage in 1980.

interest rate was something like 16%. it was really just inflation was catastrophic. carter in the teeth of those things did many progressive and far-sided measures as norm mentioned. i say especially in the environment in national parks, in deregulation for better and worse. he created the craft beer industry by deregulating brewing. he created modern airlines by deregulated airline work. he was a fiscally conservative person. so he did a lot. i would return to what norm said about the panama canal treaty as being a phenomenal achievement. he got 68 votes. in the senate to ratify a controversial treaty. you have to think back to today's senate to imagine how difficult that is. included 16 republicans to ratify it. so he did a lot but it also was a terrible time when things were just going wrong on every single front. and so, by the end, it's worth noting he's running against ronald reagan, who in popular

memory was inevitable landslide victor, people know him as a two-term president. until a week before the election, that seemed too close to call. that's what most of the newspapers were calling, even though everything broke in reagan's favor and carried 44 states because of the accumulation of woe that settled upon carter and the world just then and carter was relatively young, 56 when he left the presidency. not that much older than bill clinton was. and so he then had to reinvent this role, which he had all these decades admirably to do and had the past two years in hospice to read all these appreciative, preobituaries for him. just like the tom sawyer scene of being able to hear what people would say in a good way once he passed. >> yeah. that is kind of remarkable. guys, thanks so much for helping us kick this off. this is the beginning of the state funeral of jimmy carter. norm is contributing editor after the atlantic, author of "one nation after trump" james

fallo-s, former chief speech writer of jimmy carter. author of "our towns." we'll continue to follow the state of the state funeral of former president jimmy carter. the motorcade right now on its way to carter's boyhood home in archery, georgia. we'll be right back. archery, georgia we'll be right back. oh... stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew.

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♪♪ we just watched this a few moments ago. this was the motorcade and this particular case the hearse carrying the late president, jimmy carter, leave the phoebe sumter medical center in americus, georgia. it is on its way to carter's hometown of plains, georgia. it will briefly stop at carter's childhood home before heading to atlanta for the beginning of the state funeral.

jimmy carter is lauded for his impactful and lengthy post presidency during which he promoted human rights with both the carter center and habitat for humanity but the foreign policy shaped our world as much as anything else. in 1978, president carter rangled leaders from israel and egypt at camp david to establish a framework for peace the middle east. egypt and israel had been at war for decades. so this wasn't easy, but carter's optimism carried him through. only a few days in, both the israeli and the egyptian parties refused to meet in the same room. and it's reported that carter went from cabin to cabin at camp david as an intermediary conducting shuttle diplomacy, quite literally until they emerged with an agreement, bilateral principles of peace and framework for palestinian self governance in gaza and the west bank. now, reaching a final treaty between egypt and israel from this framework would take a bit

longer. the historic peace treaty born from camp david was signed in march of 1979. by then the carter administration shifted its attention. an uprising against the shah of iran was hitting a fever pitch. in january of 1979, shah fled the country and his monarchy was toppled after months of civil unrest which we now know as the iranian revolution. prior to this, the u.s. was the largest seller of arms to iran and the shah had a positive relationship with carter and with america, but carter was reluctant to defend his old ally given how unpopular he was iran. plus, carter was hoping to forge a relationship with iran's new leaders which is why he was hesitant to allow the shah to seek exile. he agreed to allow him entry to seek medical treatment when he heard he was gravely ill. this prompted iranian protesters

to attack the u.s. embassy in teheran in november of 1979. they held 52 american citizens hostage for 444 days. blindfolded americans were paraded by their captainers for the world to see, washington severed its ties with teheran and the hostage crisis cast a long shadow over carter's final year in office. he was handily defeated by ronald eagan, among other reasons, for that. the nuclear deal trump abandoned in 2018, there have been virtually no diplomatic relations the united states and iran. joining us now iranian american writer and professor at the university of california riverside, leading expert in world religions and jonathan alter, msnbc contributor and author of the 2020 biography, "his very best, jimmy carter, a life" a book you must read it. gentlemen gentlemen, i'll be interrupting

you a lot. we will be looking at pictures through the course of the hour. this is archery, georgia. the president boyhood home. he talks a lot about it. jonathan, you write a lot about it in your book. we will be seeing the motorcade arriving here momentarily. the national park service, that's who you're looking at, those are members of the national park service assembled there. they will salute the late president. we will stop for that. we will listen to it. and they will ring the farm bell 39 times in honor of the 39th president of the united states. i say that with the idea that i'll be interrupting you. but reza, let's just talk about jimmy carter's legacy the middle east. he was actually on a good track there. things were going well, particularly with egypt and israel. it was a peace that was held until 1979. but iraq, things turned with iran and there's even new reporting on it to this day. but tell me about that. and how we look at jimmy carter with respect to the fact that when he started, iran was an

ally. when he left, iran was an adversary. >> well, recall when carter came into office part of what he planned to do was to clean house in the cia, to remove the kind of nixonian, real politic national security apparatus that was in place and that had gotten the united states in so much trouble around the world. he was going to refocus america's foreign policy towards a more pro-democratic alignment, if you will. certainly when it came to iran, this was considered wonderful news. for most iranians who were living under the dictatorial regime of the shah, many of us thought that carter was going to be our salvation, our hero. he was going to come and really read the riot act to shah.

and indeed, in 1977 he did make a trip to iran. i was a 5-year-old boy there, but i remember it like it was yesterday. i was actually out there welcoming his motorcade as it drove slowly through teheran. what i could tell you is there was a real belief, euphoria, that this new american president was going to rev. course on america's long-standing support for the shah. and looking away at all of the human rights violations that were taking place in iran. and then, of course, quite famously there was the state dinner in the shah's palace in which jimmy carter stood and gave that famous toast to the shah where he called iran an island of stability in an unstable region. and i think that was the moment

in which iranians felt emotionally betrayed by jimmy carter. and i can tell you, it was experience that i think most iranians, particularly those who supported the revolution never forgave him for. and it created this sense in iran that carter couldn't be trusted. and throughout the 444 days of the hostage crisis, there was a real sort of desire, particularly on the part of homani and his followers to make sure that carter suffered for that toast. and jonathan i'm sure will be able to tell you, there were numerous negotiations back and forth. there were numerous times in which there was almost a breakthrough where the americans were almost going to be released into carter's hands, where at the last minute homan-i pulled

the rug out from under him and indeed made a conscious decision not to release these hostages until one minute after reagan was inaugurated. and that wasn't -- >> new reporting on -- this is plains, georgia, we're looking at, by the way. this is the motorcade going through plains, it will not be stopping here. they will be stopping in archery, his boyhood home, where we just saw the park service members. but you can see americans lined up saluting, taking pictures, watching the motorcade go through. we just saw the family, they are in the big bus. they just went through. jonathan, let's pick that up again. that is, to some people, that is the thing people remember. >> yeah. i wanted before we talk iran a little more, i want to mention those two buildings that you just saw, you're looking at right now. >> yep.

>> that is the entirety of downtown, so to speak, quote unquote, plains, georgia. those buildings that you're looking at right now, it is a one-street town. >> this is the metropolis that jimmy carter is from. >> metropolis of plains, georgia. it's not like there are similar sized buildings on the other side of the street or down the street. that's it. there are few stores in that -- in those buildings that you see. jimmy and rosalynn carter restored a very small hotel right there where they decorated each of the floors, the rooms of the hotel, motel really n a different era of american history from 1900 to 2000. rosalynn had skills as an interior decorator and jimmy made the furniture in those rooms as well as restoring the 19th century -- >> an important point.

he actually was a skilled carpenter. when people talk about the fact that he took out a hammer at habitat for humanity, yes, he was a volunteer, but, in fact, he was a carpenter. >> and that's correct. and where you see the banner, if you go around to the left, that's where carter's warehouse was located. that was his business. so people think of him as a peanut farmer, and he was. and we'll see when they arrive at the boyhood home, that's where the 350 acres that the carters owned were. but this in, quote unquote, downtown plains, that's where his business was. with the help of rosalynn, he turned it into a multimillion dollar agra business that he put in a blind trust when he became president. and that's -- that was the center of their lives, that business.

unlike so many businessmen, jimmy carter was a hugely, almost exhaustively active member of his local community. we did everything in that town. >> before we pick up on the conversation on iran, i want to stop where we are right now. because what you're watching is the motorcade and the hearse approaching archery, georgia. and i would like you to tell us, please, jonathan, about archery as we watch this. i will interrupt you at some point. this is the motorcade and the casket carrying jimmy carter arriving at archery, georgia. tell us about archery. >> so archery, georgia, is no longer a town, contained 20 families. many worked as either sharecroppers or farm hands on the carter farm. in archery. and there was -- one of the black families is one of the

most well known black bishops in the entire south. and he was a friend of the carter family, but because jimmy carter's father was a segregationist, he always would talk to bishop johnson on the front lawn. he wasn't allowed in through the front door of the carter home. that's how rigid the segregation of the jim crow south was. and even though the carters were the most well to do family in the area, they had no running water, no electricity, no mechanized farm equipment. they may as well been living in the 19th sents century. from the time he was a very, very small boy, jimmy carter wanted to be a farmer. and first he learned how to raise corn and sweet potatoes and then he moved on to cotton

and peanuts and did everything involved in plowing the fields. this was his ambition when he was a boy. when you hear the bell ring, that farm bell, that is why jimmy carter's best book that was nominated for a pulitzer prize an hour before daylight it's called, which is about his growing up in this -- on this farm, it's called an hour before daylight because an hour before daylight, that farm bell would ring. that meant that jimmy carter and his siblings and the others who lived on that farm, the black farm hands who lived there, they all knew it was time to get up and go to work an hour before daylight. >> we and let's listen to that bell ring 39 times. [ bell tolling ]

[ bell tolling ] [ bell tolling ] [ bell tolling ]

[ bell tolling ] [ bell tolling ] >> the bell that jimmy carter heard every morning ringing one hour before sunlight being rung 39 times by a member of the national park service in honor

of jimmy carter, the 39th president of the united states. and honor guard there saluting the car carrying the casket the body of the former president in archery, georgia, a town which he grew up, a farm which he grew up, that pause now will be the last pause for this hearse on its way to atlanta, where jimmy carter's body will lie in repose for his state funeral. body will then go to washington. members of the public will be able to view his body in atlanta and in washington, d.c. jonathan, this is -- you and i talked about this the other day. this is not just where jimmy carter grew up, but it's where some of his views on racism and race relations were formed. and as you write in your book, it's more complex than some would like to remember. some remember him as a man who

merged his religious views and ethics with civil rights and racial equity. but it wasn't always that way. r. but it wasn't always that way. >> if you look at the journey from this boyhood in the jim crow south, where he was barefoot for most of the year and take all the way nearly 100 years later to where he's a global icon, and has taken the civil rights movement that he didn't actually participate in as a young man, and he's turned it into a global, human rights movement. a very consciously taking that civil rights movement that he witnessed in the south and in some ways making up for his failure to stand up more when he was young. in some sense almost atoning for it. doing it in the second