inail, i hope you think of me, the girl that you called poor and uneducated. it's because of me you will be in prison for life. i was really proud of her. i think it took incredible courage on her part to see this through. andrea canning: meghan knows, in a way, she was lucky. every day there are women that are in situations like this that don't have the means to get out. i have had so many people help me and i just want to make a difference for those who don't have a voice. that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm andrea canning. thanks for watching. hello and welcome to this special holiday edition of morning joe. we are on time this morning bringing you some of our best

recent conversations including this interesting one about what donald trump's second act in the white house will look like on day one. jim vandehie as i said earlier, i had a busy weekend talking to political leaders in new york and london, and they all have the same question. who is going to be in control in trump's inner circle? because if that's going to move on tariffs and how immigration is going to be carried out, and a thousand different policy questions are going to be asked, and you actually have a report on this. this is the divide. this is what has vexed business leaders on both sides of the atlantic, political leaders on both sides of the atlantic, thought leaders on both sides of the atlantic. who will have his ear the most?

the creators or the destroyers? >> you understand trump's mind as well as anyone. there's intention right now. the creators are the folks you're seeing named to the economic jobs, the energy jobs, the a.i. jobs. they feel like they can juice economic growth, keep the jobless rates low, and keep the stock markets soaring. if he does that, he feels like he will have a successful presidency, be popular, and get what he wants out of the white house. at the same time all of the people you talked about earlier, all of the people up for cabinet jobs that are controversial, they will fall into the destroyer category. they are people brought in specifically because of their loyalty. partly to do retribution, partly to gut the very agency they are being put in charge of. i think that's why you have such jarring moments with trump, and you will see wild swings between the two of them.

tieing all your stories today, think of the drones in the sky. right now, a ton of people sitting of x thinking it's ufos or the iranian ready to wage war on america. you have others paying no attention to it. you have the president-elect saying maybe we should just shoot them down, and then hegseth, defense secretary worrying about the woke material or trans in the military. really the biggest topic, and you have smarter people on the set today than me on this, the military has to worry about, the next defense secretary is drones or related to drones. how do you move as quickly as possible to a type of warfare that is waged in space with satellites, with drones, with new technologies, less dependent on boots on the ground. much more dependent on getting the best and the brightest in the government to figure out how do we take the advantage we

have over china we created a.i. we have a big lead over them on ships and the thinking that goes into a.i. how do we take that and make sure our military is even more dominant in the next generation? >> right. >> when you get bogged down in the small things, you lose sight of the big picture where we have an enormoused advantage going in. >> you talk about the trans issue, and again, 0.5% of the military right now trans. if that. and yet this is his obsession? we have a possible world war breaking out in the middle east? a possible world war breaking out in eastern europe with north korea troops down there, and i want to follow up on something you said. this is something i picked up overseas. the obsession, and we are not talking about the drones over jersey. we are talking about the drones

over the front, between the ukrainians and the russians. and the things i heard this weekend about what those drones are doing and how far advanced they are moving is nothing short of extraordinary. it is making so many defense systems almost obsolete now, jim, and you're absolutely right. we either obsess on that, not the 11th century crusades, we either obsess on bringing order to the middle east and not 0.5% of who is in the military right now or we get left behind by people who don't know how to run the pentagon. it's astounding. i will say, this is one of the things they kept hearing over and over again. you guys are ahead of all of us. you have lapped us 12 times, but the world is moving on. are you really going to be focusing on the 11th century? on civil war?

i mean, that's the question that was repeatedly asked. >> yeah, i mean, it's a legitimate question to ask. it does go to what you said. for any dogging of america during the campaign or doing it in books, it just defies the logic on the ground. we have so many builtin advantages right now. listen, on the good side, if you can get the pentagon to focus on what it needs to focus on, i think it's a good thing you have entrepreneurs thinking of government and trying to apply mind share to it. having the smartest people who built the technologies, understanding the technologies, thinking of it, advising the president could be a very net positive thing, if you structure your policy to create a bigger gap between us and china. when you get into grievance or

retribution, that's the type of stuff that does rattle markets, world leaders, ultimately the public. maybe the public is too disoriented right now, but the public doesn't want to see jailing reporters and doing things that defy the institutional norms. we will see how it plays out. >> it's important to remember the market is at 45,000 right now. you have people who believe, for instance, warren buffet, it's overvalued. top hedge fund leaders are taking money out of the markets fearing the volatility coming up. that's why when you talk about people being ill equipped, seeking retribution, these people who aren't up to the task, you start -- and i will say tariffs, too. there's going to be a real battle, i think internally over

tariffs because donald trump doesn't want to see the stock market that many people already believe is artificially inflated drop 10% in a day. trust me, where it's sitting right now, if the moves are wrong -- >> yeah. >> it's going to drop 10% in a day. last night the ft dropped an article. they are going to slow down interest rate cuts because they fear the inflationary pressures of the incoming administration. i will say he has put somebody that the street really respects -- >> the treasury? >> in treasury. >> yeah. >> he has smart people in there. i have a feeling the message will be steady as she goes or people will be wishing for the good days. i'm dead serious of joe biden's

45,000 dow industrial. >> that article was important because it showed the consensus the inflationary pressures will grow, among other things setting up a clash with the chair of the reserve and the new president. that's something investors don't want to see. >> jim, thank you very much. let's talk about big picture, democratic party, post election, soul searching, it has to change. >> let's do it. >> titled dnc should move d.c. headquarters to youngstown, ohio. that's where you're from, youngstown, ohio. you have been talking about what happened on election day for ten years or so. you come on this show and say we are losing these people. we need to work harder to keep these people. i think now that a lot of democrats have woken up to what you've been saying for awhile, what now for democrats. >> i would say a little tongue

in cheek, move the headquarters to youngstown, ohio. working people, old factory town. gritty. we have a great coaching culture, known as the cradles of coaches, jim trestle, urban meyers not far away. we created the culture, how are you gritty? how do you lead? how do you have honest conversations so your team trusts you? it account be flint, detroit, milwaukee, pittsburgh, doesn't matter. it just can't be in freaking washington, d.c. how many times are we going to talk to ourselves about something that is irrelevant to that person in youngstown, ohio, coming out of the culture, the economic anxiety and all of that? it can't be in washington, d.c. i think it would be a very good strategic move and as i say in the piece, have the workers

there. have high overpaid consultants go to a place like youngstown, play bocce, watch sports, be in the community, eat dinner, great italian food. they are going to eat well. just go there and listen. don't be on twitter or tell them what you think. nobody cares what you think. listen, two ears one mouth. you listen, just like we were raised. if we do that, we will begin to shift the culture of the party. >> congressmen, so youngstown is a great example because i think that decades ago, i guess the big employer was republic steel? i remember when i was in college, i had a friend whose dad worked for republic steel. it's one thing to listen and play bocce, but what should the message be for a place like

youngstown, ohio? what should democrats be saying they intend to do or want to do to make people's lives better there? >> we have got to be the party of reform. period, end of story. everything needs to fit under that. everyone knows the government is broken. everyone knows the economy is not working for them, eugene, whether you're white, black, brown, female, male, work in manufacturer or retail, you know we blow too much on health care. we are spending billions of dollars on education, yet we are not getting the skill set we need to dominate the new economy. we know that affordability around energy is not where it needs to be. we know these communities need rebuilt. the downtowns are empty. the rivers are dirty. we need a huge reform agenda, and i think that's where we dropped the ball and gave trump the lane on reform. you're seeing it now with doje

taking on the broken economic system even though he has concepts a plan with north carolina, he's at least acknowledging there's a lot of problems with health care. we need to get the message out on insulin and other things. i think the brand for democrats needs to be, you know, reform and renewal. we will take on the entrenched interests. i think robert kennedy jr. is doing, talking about food, the consolidation in meat packing, the consolidation around seed and pesticides. why can't we go into rural america and tell farmers we are on your side. we know that it went from seven, eight, or nine different seed producers to two or three and it's basically a monopoly and you're getting screwed? we have to have courage. we have to have the guts to say we will go into rural america. you can't leave voters out there like they don't know what you stand for.

>> let me ask you this then, how can it be that in youngstown, ohio, the average salary last year was $34,000 for a family, for a household. household average salary last year, $34,000? and yet the government of the billionaires, for the billionaires, by the billionaires won ohio overwhelmingly. how does that happen? how do democrats miss that layup? why have they continued to miss that layup for years? average household $34,000? >> yeah. >> voting for a government of the billionaires for the billionaires by the billionaires over and over again? how could it be that ohio is gone? >> i don't think ohio is gone. they saw trump as the blue collar billionaire going to go

in and help fix it, and maybe he's the only guy who could. unfortunately as much as i love bill clinton, they see the democrats as the ones who passed nafta and led us through globalization. the workers at places like general motors, we literally watched those jobs go from warren, ohio, over the border into mexico, and ship the product back. our workers were unbolting machines from the factory floor and sent to china. >> it happened in 1994. >> it's still in the dna, joe. >> democrats can't figure something out from 1994 forward? >> they say you did this. obama was in for eight years, and things have not gotten better. to biden's credit, we are reindustrializing the country, but we didn't have a reform reindustrializing we are taking

on those guys. there's a battery plant outside of youngstown, 30 bucks an hour renegotiated the contract. we didn't talk about it. all of the reforms trying to make around insulin, you didn't hear a ton about it it wasn't a big, bold agenda. it was piecemeal. we need to carry a big stick. >> tim ryan, always good to see you. thank you for coming on this morning. coming up, one democratic member of congress says republicans in his state threw fairness out the window, and it cost his party control of the house. democratic congressman nickel joining us next to explain. you're watching morning joe. e you' re watching morning joe. they really stink, sose on. ♪♪ really, gary? mom, i'm thirsty. don't settle for cheap, stinky floor mats. at weathertech we make our floorliners and cargo liners

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welcome back. almost half past the hour. democrats have managed to win the final uncalled race. the republican from california has lost to adam gray by just over 200 votes meaning mike johnson will have a razor thin republican majority with two members set to serve in the trump administration and matt gaetz resigning, johnson will have a one-seat majority for the crucial 100 first days of the trump administration. a growing number of democrats are pointing to the congressional map in north carolina as a key reason they could not wrestle back control of the house. in a new op-ed, wiley nickel writing this that north carolina is a true purple state

with a nearly 50/50 split, north carolinians expect fairness with how their voices are represented in congestion, but the latest gerrymandered election maps reshaped the balance of power in washington, d.c., costing democrats control of the u.s. house of representatives, and now with adam gray's victory in the 13th district giving the fair three- see majority, it's clear the gerrymandering in north carolina tipped the scales in their favor and cost democrat the control of the u.s. house of representatives. congressman nickel did not run for reelection citing his district as one of three in north carolina that were vastly reshaped by republican gerrymandering. congressman nickel is joining

us now. >> congressman, a week ago it was a rigged map, not his words, but the rigged map in north carolina was the difference between democrats controlling the house of representatives for the next two years and republicans. of course you can go back to 2022, and it was the democratic snafus in redistricting in new york state that put republicans in charge. i'm just curious, how do we get past the gerrymandering? and how can states like yours, actually reflect the will of the voters, the will of the people, and not the will of one party or the other, like rigging the maps? >> well, thank you so much for having me. you know, i think that the first point, really important

from the opinion piece. hakeem jeffries ought to be the speaker of the house right now. if it wasn't for the republicans in north carolina rigging the system in my state and two others hakeem jeffries would be the speaker of the house. we have to get partisan gerrymandering, taken away, and let the folks choose washington. it would require independent districting in every state. it's wrecking congress. in this case, it's cost democrats control because of the rare mid-decade gerrymandering in north carolina. >> let's go deeper. a tossup state, battleground, donald trump did win, but noted here the democratic won governor's race, and now hotly contested seats in the house with gerrymandering involved. is there any recourse on the state level to rectify the problem you just identified? >> it's been gerrymandering for quite awhile. you can't look to our legislature to do anything. the best hope we have in north

carolina is our courts. we just elected a democrat, allison riggs by just over 600 votes back to the court. a 2-5 court. we have to win the supreme court races in north carolina over the next two election cycle before we can have a court that will do fair maps in the state. nationally congress with the simple majority and the house and senate could end the partisan gerrymandering once and for all, but it's the thing lessing congress. the least productive congress in our nation's history. people should be upset and point their finger at gerrymandering. >> i just wanted to follow up on jonathan's question, what do you think is the right question to north carolinians who over the next couple of years are going to kind of see this and wonder why their own kind of identity as a purple state isn't being expressed in

washington? is the answer here to run more democratic candidates in races? to organize? what exactly can be done? there is a republican, you no i, legislature, and it's kind of hard to overcome is my understanding. what is your message? what should democrats be doing? >> number one, we should talk about fair maps, getting rid of partisan gerrymandering, but the fact is republicans do it more than democrats. it's wrong no matter who did it. looking at north carolina specifically, you get districts that don't represent the majority will of the state. north carolina again 50/50 state. 71% of the state going to republicans because of the extreme partisan gerrymandering. the country, 10% of the seats in congress are heavily gerrymandering for democrats, and close to 40% for republicans. the other 50%, more fair

districts, independent redistricting commissioning districts in places like arizona and colorado. the answer is doing something that applies to all states evenly. the only way we will get change is if folks make their voices heard. it's been a dumpster fire. republicans will never get their act together with a small majority. it's going to be a mess. there's no incentive to work together when less than 10% of the seats are truly competitive. that's where we are right now, and that's the thing we have to fix. >> that's a problem. congressman nickel of north carolina, thank you so much for being with us. >> appreciate it. >> greatly appreciate it. claire, it's such a great point, and you know, people have asked the difference from when i was there and now. so much of it has to do with the fact when they started doing the lines by computers and could really figure out how to sort it out and make fewer and fewer races for the house, again, no reason to work with

the other side. i will say, though, talk about where we find ourselves this morning after, of course, we find out that donald trump is going to start with a one-seat majority in the house, probably for the first 100 days, and a senate that is proving to be a lot tighter, margins tighter than anybody expected after the election. it seems to me they have going to have to either work together in some sort of unity government in the house especially or nothing is going to get done. what do you think? >> i think that all you have to do is look at the senate, and you can see what happens when you have senators that can be defeated by the other party. that's what happened in the house. you don't have members who can be defeated by the only party. they can only be defeated in a primary that means all of the political incentives are to go to the ends of the earth instead of the middle, instead

of finding compromise or finding lasting bipartisan solutions. they are looking for a viral moment to raise money off of so they can prove to everyone they are in the further edges of their party as opposed to a more moderate member. you know, speaking in north carolina, thom tillis, this is a really good example. he's up in two years. now i don't know what you guys think, but i have a feeling 2026 may be a little rough for the republicans. a guy like thom tillis is looking at election in about ten minutes in the senate terms. he's in cycle right now, and what is he going to be doing over the next two years? is he going to be rubber stamping donald trump in a state like north carolina where you can't gerrymander a senate seat? where there are democrats that have won there certainly in our recent lifetimes? he's going to have to find a

way to keep his primary at bay without the trump machine coming after him but appeal together moderate voters in north carolina that are going to decide the race. >> of course, claire, susan collins also up in the state that joe biden and kamala harris won easily. two senators that will be up. you're right, in an offyear for the party in control in the white house. >> i think donald trump will overplay his hand. if the nominations are a status of his mental indication, they represent him overplaying his hand. if he does overplay his hand trying to go to the extreme, nay are really going to have a rough midterm, rough midterm elections in 2026. >> former u.s. senator, thank

you very much we will be right back with more morning joe. with more m orning joe.

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so, gene, as deftly as you can speak about the nfl, your new column is the truth about biden's aid to africa is being lost on republicans as president biden concludes a trip to africa, the first of his term, and likely his last foreign trip in office. he was in angola. let's talk about how important africa is in the world. >> it's really important because the united states needs to seriously get back in to the game in terms of africa. africa is the -- in terms of populations, the fastest growing part of the world. it's the only part of the world

where populations are not leveling off or even declining, and in the year 2050, one human being out of four is going to live in africa. that's where most of, you know, a huge percentage of the working age adults are going to be. that's where development is going to be happening in a major, major way. china and russia have been expanding their links and influence on the continent. china is building projects, just from one tip of africa to the other, in so many countries, the united states, you know, has kind of been supplanted by china and to a lesser extent by russia, on the african continent. i think that's a real mistake. i think it's a great thing that president biden went there to

tout the railroad project in angola and also to demonstration that no, the united states is not -- is not abandoning africa and wants to be there to help in any way it can as the massive development takes place and as africa becomes ever more important on the world stage. >> yet it can't be overstated the investment china has made. you worked for george w. bush who did spend a lot of time and focus on africa, and when donald trump was there four years, never went there once, spoke disparagely, and never visited at all. do you expect more of the same? >> i think at trump to look at most foreign aid and scorn it. who knows what he is going to act on. i am waiting to see if he will

appoint figure heads for those who don't know the bureaucracy enough. republicans should be proud of george w. bush's legacy with africa. what he did with the millennium challenge account corporations, we saved millions of lives, america did, and it really changed the legacy of america within africa at some level. that's something that any republican, any democrat should support, and so, that's how i would far prefer foreign aid to be going and to save lives than war frankly. >> gene's new piece is online for the washington post and shines light on the issue that doesn't get enough attention. gene, thank you so much. always good to see you. >> always good to see you, willie. coming up, we look at the story of an incarcerated man

who helped people in prison develop critical life skills through the arts. coleman domingo is live to talk about his role in what critics are calling one of the very best movies of the year. morning joe will be right back with that. be right back with that. ou can manage your es with confidence. ♪♪

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theater program. >> all right, gentlemen, let's go. >> it's been a program that was established to help people get more into their feelings and truly get some rehabilitation. >> i am gladiator goliath. >> i'm prince hamlet of denmark. >> and it's turned into something, i don't know, wonderful. >> what part to you play? >> from time to time i do act. we all do. >> are you acting at all during this interview? >> that was a look at the film "sing sing." it stars colman domingo as john woodfield in the retelling of a true story of a man in prison at the sing sing correctional facility leading other incarcerated men in a theater

program. the film took the ground breaking step of casting the formerly incarcerated members portrayed in the movie. colman was nominated last week for a golden globe for his performance in sing sing and is also an executive producer on the film. congratulations on the nomination. thank you so much for being here. let's start with that decision. the decision to have alummists being in the movie. >> felt right. the lived experience bring as certain authenticity to the work in a different way i have to lean into that as an actor, instead of bringing my performance to where they are living, and helping guide them to the space i'm sure they are unfamiliar it. it's a beautiful hybrid. 95 minute film, but something like it feels like a

documentary because you have people who have actually been through the program. >> it looks so beautiful. of course it was released this summer, released again, and going to be released again. but it's not just a feel-good story. i love the fact that for inmates that were a part of the program, the recidivism rate was 3%. >> yeah. >> compared to 60% nationwide, which reminds me, we had this beautiful, beautiful moving documentary that we talked about last week, about young girls that get to be with their fathers at a dance in prison. the recidivism race was extraordinarily low also for fathers who participated in that. it was like, give someone a chance to connect with their humanity, and you get the best out of them. >> that's exactly what we

learned these programs, the programs for the rehabilitation to the hearts. any of us doing theater games in junior high school, you realize it builds communication skills. you put yourself in someone else's shoes. >> you're playing the role of a man who said he was wrongfully convicted of murder serving 25 years? >> yes, absolutely. john delaware vine whitfield. i'm playing him and also representing a lot of men and women who have been wrongly accused of a crime. as we know, not everyone in prison belongs in prison. i feel like this is someone who hung on to his humanity being a jailhouse lawyer, advocating for others on the inside, and being an advocator for the theater program.

they exit the gates and never come back. >> we are talking about human beings, and some have made mistakes and some didn't, but they are in jail. as you said, some shouldn't be in jail. some should. i grew up in brownsville, and some folks should have been in jail and didn't. your commitment when you tell the stories, i remember you played bayotte and i knew him as a kid. talk about what it meant to you. they are human beings who deserved to be looked at differently, not just as we were saying, growing up, it was called correctional facilities. now detention center. they don't just need to be caged, but to given a chance. >> to sit here with a man who has done so much for all of us. you have inspired me to make sure i'm looking after not just

human beings, but black and brown men as well. i know growing up in inner city philadelphia, i know the chances many of us don't get. going back to kindergarten, programs to help support us to be fully realized human beings, things, and i feel like programs like this, like resetting these folks on the inside, saying, oh, they were never allowed the chance to play to be, to have feelings, to deconstruct all of the things we are seeing to talk to us as black and brown men to be strong and hard, and smashing that, inviting tenderness and a new path. a lot of guys said if i had this program when i was six or seven years old, maybe the choices made would not have been made. it's about doing that deep work. i care deeply about it. you know that everything i do, if i can have an impact as an actor or director, whatever way i'm in service, i feel like that's my service to the world.

>> colman, you're the executive producer, but you also practice what you preach. you had equal pay for everyone on the movie, which really is very dynamic. >> thank you. i think that was the only way it could be done. to know these men were giving their stories, and we were trying to examine in many different ways how we do things in the industry. i feel like the pay parody is pretty unprecedented to include number one on the call sheet, paid the same rate. we kept the overhead low. when we had success, i feel like we all benefit. i feel like there's new ways to help us feel validated in every single way. >> colman, thank you so much. >> thank you, joe. >> beautiful, beautiful. greatly appreciate you being here. the movie "sing sing" will be back in theaters starting january 17th . actor and executive producer colman domingo, thank you very much.

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i think if animals could speak, if all species could speak, they would all say the same thing, which i want to live. josh, a lot of folks could argue spending money on squirrels, why is that important? but it is important, why? >> every living creature deserves a chance to live. every living creature wants to live. she is ready to go. and that my friends is what it's all about. >> that was a look at the new program titled "extraordinary

world with jeff corwin" debuting next month on cbs and paramount+. it's produced in partnership with the brady hero foundation. shining a light on youth empowerment and much more. joining us jeff corwin and josh fox the founder and executive producer of the brady foundation. thank you both for being here this morning. jeff, starting with the message, the origin of your life's work, i guess. >> yes, i kind of joke, i started in this career as a brunette and now a silverback, still telling the powerful story where we are in the planet with the protection of the natural resources and

endangered species and how it has an interconnection with the human experience. that's really the spirit of the series. it's a partnership with the brady hunter foundation, which is a passion project for josh. essentially every episode, we go into this journey where in the world of unknowns, we highlight the people making our world a special and stable place. from animals to people, that's the spirit. >> how do you choose what to highlight? >> we have met incredible organizations around the world. we usually ask the same questions every time, how can we make an immediate impact? there's so many amazing organizations. we are in 14 countries, we have done 80 projects, and it's people and animals working together. >> where do you go? >> i'm down in florida. for example, we did a

partnership with feeding south florida, an incredible organization that feeds the needy. a truck traveling around south florida, feeding people. lines of cars, up to 500 cars, distributing food to them on a monthly basis. >> there's a lot of animals thinking of endangered need people's help and assistance that have to fight for their ability to live and need our protection, and you don't always think of squirrels, which is highlighted there talk to us about what some people may think were the unorthodox or mundane animals you believe have a right to live. >> essentially everyone has a place at the table, the big conversation. squirrels, we see them every day and consider them a nuisance, but in many ecosystems they are critical to the survival. the forest, nuts get distributed for germination,

but other creatures. we were rescuing sea turtles off new england, flying them to a sea turtle hospital, and we show the whole community comes together to save the resource. that's the mission of the series, to show how the human opportunity for a better life often connections to how we take care of the environment, and every creature, whether you're a keystone endangered specious or humble squirrel, you a place in the conversation. >> following up with that, jeff. what are the impacts you're seeing of climate change on what you're doing? >> well, john, that's an incredible question. we do many episodes in florida, where brady hunter is based. florida, because of climate change, which was the most and only place in north carolina where we have coral reefs, only 3% of the coral reefs survive. the sea turtles getting a cold

stun, it's because climate change drove them up. climate change is affecting our planet. the train has left the station. it's how we manage and mitigate going forward. showing the everyday heroes in the front lines of making a difference hopefully gets us to that place. >> what are some things that they are doing to combat climate change, particularly at this moment where there's so much uncertainty and worry about that issue? >> i was horrified when i first moved to florida. i was walking the beach with hunter, my foundation is named after him, there was garbage all over the beaches of florida. one cup, one straw at a time, i would put it in a garbage bag, and more people joined me on the journey. now our beach cleanups have 500 people in florida, and we are doing them all over the country. i wish we could have a day dedicated to cleaning up the

shorelines, lakes, streams, oceans, inspiring other people. we think about how to educate and inspire other people to get off their couch and make a difference. >> such important, important work. extraordinary world with jeff corwin debuts january 4th. jeff and josh, thank you both for being here. >> thank you for having us. re. >> thank you f or having us.

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good morning and welcome to a special holiday edition of morning joe. we are on tape this christmas morning, and hope you're enjoying a beautiful day with

your loved ones. here are some of our top discussions from recent weeks. the prediction of geo political trends of the upcoming year. the world ahead 2025 issue is out now assessing what the global impact will be from donald trump's win, how democracies around the world will respond to the widespread losses of incumbent parties, and what surprises may be in store. joining us now, deputy editor at the economist tom standish. the author the 2025 world ahead issue. >> thank you for being with us. >> thank you again. >> general question right now about britain. we will get to what is ahead. the german government the

french government falling last week, and it looks like canada's government may fall, and obviously the biden-harris team lost, but in britain, you have a new labor party, but it's gotten off to such an absolutely miserable start based on conversations i have had with dozens of people in britain. what is the political climate now in britain and economic climate as well? >> well the economic climate is quite gloomy. the government promised to boost growth, and it's currently weaker than expected. i don't think the other governments have been collapsing. this government has 4 1/2 years until another election. they have time to make pretty popular changes, and i think if you look across the world, we have seen in the unprecedented

year of elections, incumbents have done bad everywhere like in britain and america. people have a lot of expectations right now and into 2025 about if the new leaders can deliver on what they promised. so far, labor is not doing a great job of that, terrible at politics, kind of strange, but, of course the most big changes is donald trump in the u.s. there is sort of a commonality around the world, people have voted for change, and now they are expecting it to happen. so far in britain, we have been disappointed. >> let's get to the top trends. number one, you just mentioned it, america's choice, which, of course is donald trump returning to the white house. you said it could lead to ge opolitical realignments. what does a second term for donald trump mean for the world? >> that's the whole problem. we don't exactly know. these are actually points three

and four. we don't know what it means for geopolitics number three. he promised things like ending the war in ukraine in a day. what does the transactional approach mean for allies? we don't know yet. the economy, is he serious about tariffs? a big trade war? that would be bad for america and everyone else. lower growth and higher prices in america. the tariffs are a sales tax on american consumers, not a way to help yourself to money from china. they are literally a sales tax on american consumers. that risks reigniting inflation. one of the things around the world, complaining about high prices and inflation. that's one of the reasons donald trump got in. he said i will fix all of that. you will see the food prices going down. he's been back pedaling in the

last few days, but his promises point literally in the opposite direction. >> it's hard to have a conversation about the future and the president without thinking of the role of a.i. that's one of your broader trends. that's a global issue. how do you see tech leaders and world leaders grappling with it? >> i think there's an interestening thing going on with a.i. right now. there's an enormous amount of investment. $1.5trillion from 2024 to 2027. without really seeing the demand there from companies, only 5% of american companies who you would expect to lead the charge here say they are using a.i. that may go up to 7% next year. there's a weird disparity with the enthusiasm and the actual adoption with companies. maybe it will take a bit longer. maybe we need to wait for the agent-based systems. there's a candidate for the year of the world everyone, it's not going to get away from

it. the other interesting thing, i think if you look at surveys of employees rather for companies, you get higher numbers. 80% of programmers, 75% of h.r. people, and 30% of employees in america are using a.i. at least once a week. that suggests a lot of a.i. adoption going on, but it's in secret because people don't think their bosses will approve of what they are doing. that suggest as cultural challenge for a.i. to overcome if it's going to be widely adopted and justify the massive investments. i think it's a crunch year for a.i.2025. if we don't see the adoption and attraction by the companies in a formal way, some of the share prices you may think look a little overvalued. >> tom, i'm going to resist using the word agentic as long as i can. i will try to make it through 2025 without using the word. i want to come back to point

two, voters want change. that's obvious. the government fell, france is up next, and every places is a mess. canada, you know the deputy prime minister quit yesterday. justin trudeau was in serious trouble. across the world what do they want? do we know? politicians don't seem to know. does the economist know what voters want? >> not this. they want change. what is interesting, incumbents have done badly regardless of their political participation. it's not a shift to or away from nationalism or greenery or whatever it is. whoever is in charge, we want someone else. the general thing in common, inflation, and cost of living crisis in many countries, and people blame the governments

for that. they say, you know, you need to do something different. that's one of the factors we have seen. there's also been the loss of faith in the political process generally and in parties. that's contributed as well. the main thing, we blame the government for the fact that things cost more, and maybe different people would sort that out. that is the main factor driving the enormous way of voting for change. it seems the party has been chucked out all together, and also returning in countries like south africa and india with a smaller number for the coalition. that's another factor. >> you know, it's really something when you look across the west, and the most stable government, italy? >> okay? >> but it is. >> economist world ahead 2025 issue is out now. tom standish, thank you so much

for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. our next guest is showcasing some very deserving nonprofits dedicated to making the world a better place. the kristof holiday impact prize recognizing several enterprises. since 2009, helping to as the profiles of the little known organizations making a big impact on the issues covered. it was introduced in 2019 to boost support for the groups. nick, great to see you. we love this moment every year. it's a great idea you started awhile back. let's remind people how it started for you, the mission, and what you aim to do every year. >> good to be with you. we in journalism are good at highlighting disaster and

disasters and scandals, and readers are looking at what they can do to make the world better, and especially this time of the year. i started this recommended holiday gift guide with the idea that people cannot just give a necktie or scarf to family members or friends, but also make a donation to a really worthy organization in ways that change lives, and this year, i think i found three particularly amazing organizations, high education return investment isn't a hedge fund. the organizations i have chosen this year, one is called the fitsula foundation. it addresses fitsula. the most dangerous thing a woman can do in much of the world is get pregnant.

if there's no care available, she can left with internal injuries, a fistula. it's a feeling that she's been degraded by god, and for $600, one can repair the fistula. i have rarely seen someone as joyous as when they have the surgery, and another is called muso health. we lose far too many children around the world in the first year of life. the organization started in mali, and it was amazingly successful in using community health care workers. reduced child mortality. for $22 a person can expand coverage and reach another child and family. and the last this year is an incredible group called reach out and read, which works in

this country, in the u.s., and it addresses the problem that most low-income kids aren't read to by their parents. it's not that the parents don't want to help their kids, but there's no children's books at home, and they are not in the practice. reach out and read gives children's books in a well child visit by the pedestrian. the pedestrian then prescribes reading to the parent, encouraging them to read, and it turns out that it doubles the share of kids read to by their parents and makes the kids better prepared for kindergarten and school and doing better throughout life. >> all worthy organizations. they each get a $50,000 reward, but hopefully that's just the beginning as people are made aware of the organizations they may step up and donate as well. i'm curious, nick, you cover so many stories and travel the world and cover stories a lot

of the media doesn't reach. you bring back the stories, and when you sit down, i'm sure with a very long list of worthy organizations, how do you get into these three? >> so people always come up to me and say i have an amazing organization i recommend to you. what i look for is evidence, and that can be, look, every self-evaluation in the history of the world has found success. i look for outside evaluations, outside evidence, independent research finding real impact, and i look for the impact at an inexpensive price so one can make a real difference for the modest gifts that people might make for the holiday. like muso health, $22 to cover one more child in the health system, or $600 to get another woman a fistula surgery. or in the case of reach out and

read, because they are piggybacking on the well child visits, they don't have to pay for offices. it's $30 a year to get one more child in the program. that's what i look for, impact, and impact at a good price. >> good on you for all of this. if you're in the a position to donate money, you can donate time. nick has a recommendation there, called the crisis text line, providing free 24/7 high quality text-based mental health support through trained volunteers managing 100,000 volunteers over the years, and you can be one of them. if you would like to donate your time or donate to the organizations, please visit their website. coming up, the interview with al pacino about his

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there's a plane waiting for us to take us to miami in an hour. don't make a big scene. think about it. i know it was you. you broke my heart. you broke my heart. >> that is one of the most iconic scenes arguably in movie history, featuring al pacino in the godfather ii. joe had the chance to sit down with the actor who recently released his memoir entitled sunny boy, his childhood nickname. pacino and joe reflected on his journey from an apartment super

to playing one of the greatest roles ever. take a look. >> it's a great honor. >> honor to be here. >> such a great honor. >> thank you, joe. >> a lot of jobs, and reading this book, i found out i lived on an apartment on 68th and central park west, and i'm walking in, and this lady says to me, you know pacino was a super here, and he may have been one of the worst ever. i'm like, yeah, whatever. reading in the book, you were a super at this apartment complex? >> i was like a young 21, 22, and i had -- someone took a photo of me, actors get photos and eight by tens, and i put it on the door with band aids to keep it on the door, super, and i put super underneath the picture. >> you went through some tough

times, but martin sheen, just a wonderful, beautiful man, and it comes through in your book, and talk about marty sheen? >> he came in my class, and i never seen acting that great. >> yeah. >> it was great acting, and i was, you know, enamored with him. he and i, there was a place called the living theater, on 14th street and 6th avenue, and we were working for them at the theater, putting down, you have to set up the danger before the actors start to do something, and we would lay the rugs and stuff. i remember being in the back with marty, all dirtied up, cleaning the toilets and stuff, sitting in the back of the theater and looking at the play, and like, god, look at that. that's amazing. >> you had success in the theater >> yeah. >> and then your agent says to you? i need you to fly out to the

west coast to see francis. >> francis saw me in the play, and i had a manager by that time. hi done a couple of plays, and i also won a tony award. >> right. >> i was a little bit in the conversation. >> yeah. >> he obviously saw the play. he asked me to come out to san francisco to the agent, and i didn't want to go there. >> you didn't want to fly? >> i was afraid of planes. my manager said i will go with you. i went there and got to know francis, and he knew me a little before he would call me for the godfather. >> he believed in you before anyone else did? >> he called me a year later. that's how it works, it works that way, and he said hi, al,

and they gave me the godfather. i'm going to direct the godfather, and i said that's good. i knew it was a great big book. everybody was talking. >> everybody had read it, and it was one of those. a movie? wow. he said, and yeah, and i said that's great, francis, and he said, yeah, and i want you to play in it. >> couldn't believe that? >> i said he's gone too far. san francisco, and god knows what he's taking. >> practically humored him until i thought of paramount pictures. paramount pictures, i thought guys like him, they are smart and know how good he is, and they know how much he is a genius, and so, i thought, well, they are smart, and he wants me, and that's not so smart. anyway, i said, call my grandmother up, the only one left in my family, and i said

granny, they are asking me, you know the book, the godfather? yeah, i have heard of it. i said they want me to be in it. can you imagine me calling michael? she called me back 15 minutes later, granddaddy was born there. >> and you had to start thinking about it? >> i did. this is crazy. this is the fates or whatever. >> you had so many challenges in the role. the execs didn't want you, and it was tough. you said the actors were supportive, but there's a scene, again, everybody that you write is so vivid, copolla calls you and says i need to talk to you, and he's eating dinner with with his family?

and you're forced to do what? >> standing there and i'm standing at the table. >> the family is all sitting down eating? >> i'm standing there, and francis is eating, and he says like this, you know, saying, you know how much i feel about you and i have stood up for you and wanted you, and i'm standing there saying yeah, although, i know what's coming. i know what's coming, and he says and you're not cutting it, man. you're just not doing it. i thought what am i not doing? i'm not doing anything, to myself. i didn't say that. i said wow. he said look, i put some together, meaning film we had shot already in the can, and he said go look at it at paramount. >> go in peace, and may the lord be with you. i said well, i'm standing with

you, and i left. i will just go out and kill myself. it's okay. i went to the paramount thing and started looking at the r ushes, and i thought, wow, this is not so bad. i'm looking at myself because i had planned it. >> right, it's planned as an artist, you're starting to be understated with michael so that it has the build, right? >> exactly right. >> and they gave you a lousy scene starting with diane keaton. >> johnny is my father's goodson. >> exactly. >> it was to show nothing. i didn't want it to particularly. i wanted to just blend because my whole idea of the part was that it would finally show itself, and at the end of the kind of film, this guy becomes

a sort of enigma, enigma, and it was all my thoughts. i think francis felt the same way, too, but i couldn't communicate either be the experience i had. i don't know what kept me from saying this, but when i saw the footage, i thought i guess -- >> you felt good? >> i felt like it's not very good so to speak, whatever that means, good, and then i went back to him, and i couldn't tell him that this is all a plan, francis. i couldn't articulate it. i just said i see what you mean. i see what you mean and what you're talking about. meanwhile, i went into the church, and i was sitting there in a pew, just thinking, talking to god, and i said, well, i don't know -- i went in, and next thing you know, they are doing the scene in the restaurant where -- >> right. >> and so i was prepared for that. that was sort of cool. i could do that. you know, that was the pivot. the pivot, you know?

>> and the scene is very clear, and you can understand what is going on, and bill is good. i went in there, and i did it. the story is, it wasn't supposed to be shot that day, and they were looking to fire me. >> right. >> and they moved it up, and i did the scene, and they, you know, came off, and those two guys are such great guys, and they were so good to me, and they were such good actors, and they knew something was going on. >> and that's what you said about all of the actors in the godfather. they knew you were in trouble, and it's like they put their arms around you? >> exactly right. >> yes. >> awesome. >> that's so awesome. >> i will never forget it. >> of course everybody looks back and says of course the godfather was going to be a

great hit. of course it was going to be a classic, but actually while it was going on, you said, as an actor, you don't really know? >> i didn't know. >> everybody has doubts because it's really, you do your parts, and that's where you leave and start something else, and it's what they do with the editing and the director does. you said there was one moment where you said you know what? we may have a shot, and it's when you see francis ford copolla weeping in the cemetery? >> burying the goddaughter, and everyone at the cemetery coming in and out, and the day is over. i'm happy because i can go have a drink. i had no lines that day. i felt kind of good. i go walking, you know, gingerly to my camper, and there i see sitting there in a distance francis copolla on a tombstone, and he's balling.

>> right. >> he's heaving, and i mean he's just -- i said what's the matter, francis, and he looks up, and the tears in his eyes, he says they won't give me another setup. they won't give me another setup meaning another shot. i thought this guy, he cares. my god, look at him. i don't know what to say, i just said uh-oh. i think he's on to something. if he cares this much passion for that thing, that's a good sign. then i started to think, maybe this is a good movie or something. and coming up next, we will have more from joe's sit down with al pacino where they talk about his struggles with fame and addiction. about his struggles with fame and addiction.

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gentlemen? either we heal now a as team or we will die as individuals. that's football, guys. that's all it is. now, what are you going to do? >> a scene featuring al pacino as a football coach any given sunday. i recently sat down with the actor with a new memoir out titled sunny boy. we talked about the struggle after the success of the godfather. >> a lot of people don't want to talk about this. how suffocating fame was for you. the first time on the corner a redhead, and you said how are you doing? and she said, hi, michael.

>> my world is over. my world is over. >> you started to drink more as start of self-medicating for the pressure and the anxiety? talk about that? >> it was very strange to have this. you know, shot out of the cannon. that's what it felt like, and that's how i adjusted to it. probably no wonder i didn't look at the godfather much. it reminded me of the state of my life. i didn't know how to take advantage of that. i didn't know how to take advantage or recognize what was going on. we usually earn friendships because we earn them. people -- we get so -- i like him or her, or we enjoy each other's company, and because we do things, a part of our soul, part of our humanity, and that's how you exchange and make friends. i didn't have to do that.

all of a sudden, i just stand there and everything came to me. that's a dream, right? people say i wish i had that. sometimes when you're saying i wish everybody -- traffic would clear up and let me through. >> right. >> you have the feeling, and i didn't know how to handle it. i wasn't prepared for it. >> so you sort of self- medicated with drinking? >> i started doing other films and working because working has always been my lifeboat. that's my life raft working. i think that's what has kept me alive, and that's not wood, keeps going. >> i'm a baptist, but i will cross myself for you. exactly. there's this great saying -- because you -- there's the madness after the godfather and the are craziness and everybody is around. hollywood finally decides they are going to give you what you should have gotten 20 years

earlier, an academy award, and you write about how there wasn't the afterglow. you weren't pumping your fists. there was a really zen moment on the plane? >> yeah. >> can you tell everybody about that? >> it was before i won it and after i won it. there's a good story about serpico being nominated and then getting so high and drunk they wouldn't know how to get on the stage. >> so diane keeton and jeff bridges, and you're so high, you're like i hope i won't win. >> i knew i wouldn't win. charlie went with me. bregman produced it, i'm going to let them down. i sat with diane, and we were close, diane and i, and we sat there. i was very drunk and had to go on the plane.

i sat there. i look sort of impassive kind of, but at the same time, i'm thinking well, we are watching this and i'm telling her little jokes, and you know, she is laughing, and i'm telling the jokes, and as i'm telling them, i'm popping valium, boom, boom, boom, and i turn jeff bridges, great actor, jeff bridges right next to me. didn't know me or knew me, i don't know what it was. he was looking at me. may have seen me taking all of these pills. i don't know what it was. he was indifferent. i said to him, look, i guess, you know, you're not going to get to the best actor award. he said what do you mean? i said because it's an hour that has gone by, no best actor, and he said to me, this is three hours. three hours? >> oh my god. i'm not going to make it. i know i'm not going to make

it. i went into some spasm and said thank you. and then i just sat there with diane and said this is three hours long, and that's what my whole feeling was. the fear mixed with the adon't belong here kind of feeling. i don't know what it was, what made me like that, but when jack lemon won, you were like, oh, jack. >> i was like this is such a great guy. who how happy he is with his fellow actors. i just knew i couldn't make it up on the stage. >> you got up to the stage for cinema? >> i didn't even have a speech. >> yeah, and then after you won, again, very zen about it. you, it was the oscar on a plane? and you were fine? >> i just -- >> went by yourself? >> bregman called me back, and i was doing carlitos way, and i

had to get back on the set. i didn't even get a chance to enjoy the evening or live it i had to get on a [ bleep ] plane to go back to new york. i sat on the plane by myself. my girlfriend was staying in california, and i was by myself with my oscar. >> right. >> i held my oscar, and i remember the time when i was on the subway train when i got into the actors' studio. i must have been 22, 23, and i looked in the mirror on the reflection, and i remember standing there thinking, i'm an actor. i'm an actor now. i'm in the actor studio. i'm an actor. i said it. i got an oscar, wow. it just -- and it felt good. for two weeks after, it was like winning in the olympics, people come up, hey, yeah,

great, and you're like eh, and it's gone. >> it's interesting, you win, but you're a working actor, like you said earlier. it's your life raft. you do that. even going in, you realized you had a girlfriend, and at that stage, you realized i'm just not going to be able to really commit to anybody? >> that's right. >> and do what i'm doing? >> that's right, yeah. i saw that because -- i saw it getting in the way, and i was young at the time. i didn't even know where i was. i was drinking, of course, but i was also having a good time, too. it was my life. it was just, you know, coming, going, who cares, i don't know. i have my booze. that's all i know. i'm taken care of. it was a pleasant time for me for awhile.

>> for awhile. but you had your booze and then you didn't? you said didn't work with you, but talk about -- >> i was getting there. i was on my way to something that was, you know, would bring on happiness and tragedy sometimes. i remember just going -- i had a hard time, i have to say. it was difficult to do godfather ii because the character was so, you know, i'm the person with difficult things i had to do. >> no way you could ever forgive me, not with this sicilian thing that has been going on for -- >> he kills his brother and goes through so much, but at the same time i was once again broken up, and i was alone, and then traveling all over with it, with the godfather, different places we went. >> mike, i almost died myself.

>> in my home. in my bedroom where my wife sleeps? where my children come to play with their toys. >> i think it weighed on me, and i came out of that, and then i did daunte afternoon, which was mild. >> freeze, nobody move. get over there. okay, get away from those alarms. >> and i don't know, it just sort of crept up on me. i didn't know what i was doing really. i knew it when i was working, when i was the other characters or doing plays or whatever, i knew what i was doing, but handling a life at that time with what i thought was all the stuff, not saying i didn't have great times, but it was -- it got not so good, and then

pretty soon, later, i found myself -- i took off four years. for four years i took off. that's when i had a few failures, big time failures. >> hey hello to my little friend. >> scarface was a huge failure by the way. >> i didn't know that. >> when it came out? >> financially? >> well, the audience came but not in droves, and after awhile, you know, it was difficult because this movie was different. >> that's okay. you tell frank they give this guy. >> and then it started catching on. hip-hop generation just took it, and the rappers took it and made it and embraced it and understood it, and then it went on to vhss came out, and all of sudden this thing, the dvds, this thing spreads all over the

world, and it just kept going, and it was this, you know, out of nowhere. it's the biggest movie i ever made other than godfather, but it's close. and we have more of joe's wide ranging conversation with al pacino just ahead. they talk about the godfather, hollywood fame and the oscar winner's near death experience with covid. that's straight ahead here on morning joe. that's straight ah eahere on morning jo e. inically proven help reverse the 4 signs of early gum disease a toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts.

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gina, gina, gina. the face in the misty light. >> hello mr. shores. >> oh, gina, i have a meeting with a very handsome cowboy man. >> he's waiting for you at the bar. >> well. since watching the film festival, i think i know who you are. put it there. >> it's my pleasure mr. schwartz, and thank you for taking an interest. >> al pacino in a late career role as a classic movie agent from "once upon a time in hollywood". "sunny boy" is the name of pacino's just-released memoir. here in an interview with the legendary actor, we get a story of his past financial

struggles, and upbringing in the bronx. >> i would say i had never heard until this book came out about how you were fleeced. >> fleeced? >> all of your money. >> gone. >> reporter: from 50 million to nothing? >> a fool and his money is soon parted. >> your father, the accountant? >> my father is an accountant. >> how did it happen? >> i don't know. i just didn't think about money. some people don't. i mean, you would think about it, of course, especially when you have kids. then it comes in to play. i think that, yeah, my thing with money, and then i find out that it's gone, all of it's gone. i got about three different places i live, and i'm supporting -- >> $400,000 landscaping bill for a house that you said you never went to? >> well l.a. i never went to, of course.

but i didn't look at certain things, and unfortunately i still don't. i think i have to be aware of those things, and it was a big thing, and my accountant went away for seven years, prison. >> a couple of things about the book that stood out to me. >> yeah? >> one vivid, vivid story telling. you can tell you grew up around people who told stories. >> yes. >> and the second part, strangely, this big character with scarface and everything else, but there's a humility here. humility, no how i won the war stories in here. there's a real humility and gratitude, right? >> that's good. >> is that your grandparents? >> everything. >> i think it was. the environment i grew up in was -- that was certainly from my grandfather, i know that.

my mom, too. she was that way. i guess i was the showoff. >> for what? >> i remember coming in, every time i came in the apartment, i would do this whole thing with death and just fall down, and like swinging. i fell, swinging on the fireplace, and i fell on my head. >> he's good at this, huh? >> i had a concussion. i think it affected my whole life. >> in a pretty positive way? >> well, and i thought why is my brain in a fog. i had covid three times, and they say it fogs up in covid. >> of course you almost died from covid? >> yeah. >> they tell you you died, but you're skeptical? >> i'm not so sure. there i was. i'm talking to the guy who is giving me the iv. >> right. >> and he's doing that, and i'm looking at him, trying to remember his name, gone.

it was gone, and i thought -- i couldn't think anything. i didn't think anything. my eyes, and there were five or six paramedics in my living room, and there were two doctors covered head to foot with this stuff -- >> right. >> like we are on another planet. >> right. >> an ambulance because i told mike, my assistant, they told him, my pulse stopped. now that's a tough thing to hear, you know, you get a little panicked from that. >> uh-uh. >> i don't know, how could all of those people have gathered there, and you know, ready to take me somewhere? and it had to take more than 30 seconds. it had to take like four or five minutes, tops, right? i couldn't withstand that if i was dead, brain dead, no, that's how i -- that's the aftereffect. i kept thinking about it.

did i really die? to be or not to be? >> exactly. i wanted to read the end of the book. it's beautiful. you said this life is a shakespeare said. i think the saddest part of dying, you lose your memories. memories keep you flying in the wind. if i'm lucky enough, if i get to heaven perhaps, i will get to reunite with my mother there, and all i want is the chance to walk up to her, look in her eyes, and simply say, hey, ma, look what happened to me. >> oh, gee, that's great. >> you were a born actor. that was beautiful. >> what a ride. talk about that. like what -- look what happened to me, a kid from the bronx poor, hungry, went through the tragedy of losing a mom, having

an absent dad. >> what i had, though, i had a connection to the streets with my friends. i think that's what saved my life because i really loved my friends. unfortunately they all went the way of the needle, but i loved them, and it was a real -- i always felt this close like to tom sawyer huckleberry. it has that sort of reflection there. we were adventurous. we were street people, but we were together, and we lived in this world where we were from time to time threatened, and had to go out. at times we were together, helped, you know? >> yeah. >> just living through the adventures we had. >> you said the one thing you had that your friends didn't have, your mother, grandparents who loved you. grandparents you didn't remember until later on were

there for you, helping you through it? >> that's right. i had family. >> yeah. >> that's what it is. it's family. >> well, i mean, that is what this is about. i think i know you on the screen, and love you, read about you. really learned so much about you, and i'm so grateful. >> yeah, i really learned about you. you're a really good interviewer. but you do a lot of other things, too. i know that. >> the storytelling is amazing. thank you so much. >> thank you so much. that's it for us this hour of morning joe. we hope you have a merry christmas and happy hanukkah. the news continues after this short