good morning. sunday, january 5th. four years ago tomorrows peaceful transfer of power was thwarted in american history. donald trump and many allies spread unfounded allegations about the legitimacy of joe biden's presidential victory. trump and allies zeroed in on the electoral college certification in congress as the last best chance to keep trump in power w which culminated in january 6th when a mob forced their way on to the capitol to prevent congress from certifying the victory. the people who broke in, some chanted, hang mike pence, a reference to the vice president who refused to cave to donald

trump's unconstitutional demands to block the certification of the election. in the immediate aftermath of the attack, it appeared that the shocking events of that day shook many americans to their core, including many republicans who quickly denounce the rioters and laid the blame on trump. but there has been a lot of revisionism in the past four years. throughout his third presidential campaign trump played a rendition of the national anthem sung by the j6 prison choir, a group of people who had been jailed for crimes connected to january 6th. he also called them patriots and political prisoners. refers to january 6th as, quote, a day of love. he vows to issue pardons for many of those convicted for participating in the insurrection and just last night at mar-a-lago donald trump hosted a screening of the john eastman dilemma, a movie about the attorney described as the architect of the attempt to subvert the results of the 2020 election. in a video posted online apparently taken from the audience donald trump saying

eastman's praises, insisting that he was, quote, right the whole time. per nbc's reporting in addition to eastman, several other figures who played roles in trying to overturn the election were also in attendance last night, including rudy giuliani, jeffrey clark, michael flynn, and peter navarro. while trump offers absolution for supporters, he promises retribution on their behalf against those who tried to hold him and his supporters accountable. in a post on truth social two days ago he once again attacked former republican congresswoman and january 6th committee member liz cheney as, quote, a war monger of low intelligence, end quote. referred to her and other members of the january 6th committee as, quote, dishonest thugs, end quote. tomorrow will be remarkable for how ordinary it will be. congress will meet to certify the results of a presidential election for the first time stins that dark day four years ago and it will be business as usual because there has been no effort to delegitimize the

results of the election like four years. we will hope there will be a peaceful transfer of power it despite the person coming back to power tried to block that important democratic tradition four years ago. joining me is the democratic congresswoman stacey plaskett of the virgin islands, was a house manager in the second impeachment trial of donald trump. congresswoman, great to see you. thank you for being with us. we all remember that day well. i don't know how you manage, because not only do you remember it well, but your responsibility in part of that trial was to go through it frame by frame, image by image. you knew the layout and the way that that unfolded probably better than most americans. what are you feeling today as we lead into the fourth anniversary of it? >> i'm feeling very proud of my democratic colleagues because we are not election deniers.

as our leader, hakeem jefferies, stated when we had the speaker race a couple of days ago, there will be no election denying on the part of the democratic caucus. while we are not happy with the consequences of the election, elections have consequences and donald trump will be sworn in as our next president. and then we will go about the business of trying to protect the rights of all americans as well as the social fabric and all of the benefits that americans have, whether that's our veterans, our elders with medicare, social security, which the republicans have threatened to take away. that's what i have been thinking about this time, that i am so grateful for individuals lining yourself, who are reminding us of the importance of the rule of law and those like my good friend chris wray, who i worked with as a member of a republican administration for trying to keep the law. >> let's talk about that because you also served on the committee

about the weaponization of government which sort of seemed to weaponize government a good deal. that threat is greater against some colleagues, liz cheney, journalists, lawyers, prosecutors, against all sorts of people. if we are continuing our march down the road of preserving democracy, which we are, you are, we are, what does that look like? if you are not an american who is targeted, how do you continue that march for democracy on behalf of those who are and will be over the next two to four years? >> well, what i tell my own constituents who approach me and ask me, am i afraid because i had been an impeachment manager, i would not have the freedoms that i have today if there were not my an sest virgin islanders who stood up against the king of denmark and dee hamilton jackson or individuals who fought for our emancipation mere on the island that we cannot sit back and accept things just because we are afraid of what might be

taken away from us. i am excited about areas that i can work with republicans on in congress who are my friends and colleagues, and areas in which i am going to have to push back and say no to. i think it's every american's right and ability to voice their opinions and to continue in the struggle onward to the arc of justice bending towards freedom. >> an hour ago i spoke with jamie raskin who talked about the work you are going to have to do in figuring out who on the republican side will work with you, speaker jeffries, speaker johnson has already said he enjoys a relationship with hakeem jefferies, the two of them do seem to understand there are some things they have to work together, including appropriations and keeping the government open. then i had a conversation with don bake an who seems to be giving off a vibe of some of those republicans have had enough with the tyranny of the tiny majority that doesn't want to govern, is not interested in

keeping the government open, fulfilling your constitutional responsibilities. tell me how this looks to you. >> i think that's exactly true. i was standing next to leader jeffries when mike johnson came up and spoke to him about i think we are ready for this second vote. i had a conversation with speaker johnson as he was being appointed, talking with him about areas in which i on the ways and means committee are going to be working. and interestingly, after i got up and spoke about people from the territories not having the ability to vote while all of my democratic colleagues stood up and cheered, there were actually some republicans who approached me afterwards and said, this is an issue that i feel concerned about, that individuals who are living in the territories and our veterans and others who are paying taxes are not getting it their full rights. so there will be quietly those republicans who are going to want to work, want to move on, who have to respond to their constituents and who are

exhausted with the fight and want to do right by the american people. i believe that. >> earlier this morning on the weekend representative bennie thompson, the former chair of the january 6th committee, he appeared on the network. he talked about his early concerns about this new congress. listen to what he said. >> tell you what i'm really concerned about is if the president can make calls to the house of representatives and pick the speaker, that means that whole separation of power that our founding fathers put together is kind of morphed. you know, we kind of stand on that three-legged stool. and now everything is kneeling at the feet of incoming president, and that's not good for democracy. >> he makes an important point there.

glad that mike johnson took two of the defectors into the cloakroom and donald trump called them and said, you have to do this and it worked. that's not actually the way congress is supposed to work. >> true. let's be for real. there were times when president obama called members of congress and got them to do things that he wanted done, and the same with biden, the same with bush. i think that now we have such an outsized influence of not just president donald trump but individuals like elon musk and others who are in fact trying to call the shots. but i think that you saw in that last continuing resolution that there were republicans who are going to push back because remember donald trump wanted them to raise the debt ceiling and there were almost 50 republicans who said, no, we do not want that. we are not going to allow that. and i think that they are going to be areas in which president donald trump is just going to go

too far and republicans en masse will have to be against him. you know, trump wanted another individual to be the leader of the senate and that did not pan out as well. and so where there are areas we can meet in private and have discussions and bring to the floor, you know, bills and resolutions and measures that are going to be for the american people, i think you are going to see that he is not going to have the enormous amount of power he'd like to video. >> democratic representative stacey plaskett of the u.s. virgin islands, thank you for letting us understand how january 6th unfolded. thanks for being a great friend to the show. stacey plaskett. still ahead, immigration was generally a winning topic for donald trump with his base, but a rift appears to be forming. donald trump and elon musk say they are cool with at least one type of immigrant. a skilled foreign worker. trump's hard line loyalists are not having it. on the other hand, trump says on

day one he wants to eliminate birthright citizenship, protected bit the 14th amendment of the constitution. the back story of how birthright citizenship came to be. plus good news for you, good economic bright spots as we head into the new year. new year.

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the top 10% own 70% of that still. stock market up 53% in the past year, past two years. rare to have back-to-back years of 20% plus gains. we had them. if you been investing in your 401(k) you are feeling it. the unemployment rate around 4.2%. higher than the fed would like too see. plenty of jobs out there. and wages keep rising. a healthy labor market, stock market, that's all really good news giving momentum to the administration as they come into office in a few weeks. >> that's the good. let's talk about the bad right now. he with don't have to tell people. >> inflation has not gone away. food and shelter we are talking about housing, those remain pretty high. 3% year over year. individual items like eggs, like proteins, those are more and more expensive every month and there is not a lot you can do on

the policy front to fix that. housingoy affordability, housing prices at an all-time high. mortgage rates above 6.3% is out of reach for first-time homebuyers. the housing market is in a deep freeze. been that way for a year and a half. the interest rates where they are, we won't see a lot of rate cuts in the next your according to the fed. >> i saw a 30-year fixed for 7% the other day. there is an ugly. talk about that. >> incoming equality. every year doesn't matter who is in office, household net worth rice, top 10% own most of the assets and stocks, the bottom 50% not feeling it at all. poverty rate on the rice, continues year after year, 14 million people in poverty right now. and then we have a tariff war potentially coming our way. but tariffs by definition are inflationary. if you think inflation hasn't gone away, wait until there is a tariff war. we will see a lot of inflation if that comes around. estimates around 1,000 bucks to

$50 per household if trump goes through with some of the tariffs the is promising. >> we will keep doing this through the year. stick around. on the other side of the break we will dig into the news that president biden blocked the takeover of one of america's oldest steel companies by a bigger japanese firm. we will get into why he did it, why donald trump is on the same page with biden on this one and what it means next. xt whether you need to lose 10, 20, 50, or over 100 pounds, make the healthy choice with golo. head to golo.com that's g-o-l-o.com [uplifting music] arearn: saint jude-- they gave it 110% every time. and for kenadie to get treatment here

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♪♪ i want to talk about a story that got buried some of the news. it's a controversial matter which joe biden and donald trump agree for different reasons. they appear to be on the same side. argument. in december of 2023, the world's fourth leading steelmaker, japan's nippon steel, announced it wanted to take over u.s. steel. one of america's leading steel companies. it was presented as a bid to help bail out a major american company that had been facing

uncertainty for years in an industry that's struggling for decades. president biden took issue with the deal and last march signaled he would kill it. on friday, he did just that. officially blocking the $15 billion deal in dramatic fashion. talk about stopping the steel. in a presidential order biden said preventing it was about more than money and jobs. quote, this acquisition would place one of america's largest steel producers under foreign control and create risk for our national security and our critical supply chains, end quote. the american steel industry held a special place in our history, revered for shaping the modern american landscape and work force and contributing to the reez as a global super pow early. by the '70s, the industry struggled in the face of increased foreign competition, particularly from china, which subsidizes its steel production. today the industry faces deep uncertainty amid declining profits. critics of biden's decision say

rejecting the deal places the future of the steel industry in america in jeopardy. some analysts warn without significant outside investment the steel industry may be forced to shift to cheaper, non-union electric furnaces jeopardizing thousands of union jobs. however, the united steelworkers union praised biden's order shortly after, stating, it's clear that it can easily remain a strong and resilient company. we now call on u.s. steel's board of directors to take the necessary steps to allow it to further flourish and remain profitable, end quote. caleb, the editor-in-chief of investopedia, back to discuss this deal, or not deal. this is very unusual that you have got two political candidates during a campaign both on the same same, donald trump wanted to kill it, joe biden wanted to kill it for certain reasons, but the deal is dead. >> there is nothing more bedrock

than u.s. steel, formed in 1901, andrew darn any, jpmorgan and charl schwab formed this country important in the 20th industry. today u.s. steel the 28th biggest steelmaker in the world. not as big as nippon, has been struggling. this was a good bid, a very aggressive bid by nippon first. looks like it's not going to happen. remember this name. this is the committee on foreign investment in the u.s. we talked about it in the trump administration because they blocked a lot of deals, semiconductor deals. president biden said it was not kosher with the deal with nippon and u.s. steel. so trump has opposed this. said it's not going to happen. buyer beware. j.d. vance said this is tariff jumping by any other name. doesn't look like it will happen. doesn't mean that deals between japan and the u.s. are dead by any measure. >> right. japan is an ally. it was interesting because even joe biden while i think he did

this mostly because he is a union supporter, quoted national security as a reason. it's an interesting concept. do we -- does an american steel to company controlled by a foreign country pose an issue? >> not totally. u.s. steel and the steel made in the u.s., 2% goes to defense. we get a lot of other steel, aluminum, copper, gold from other countries to make weapons and make everything we need in our defense sector. it's not necessarily about that. it could be a tip of the hat to the union on biden's way out. and this is a company again that is facing struggles. it still uses those blast furnaces. those require a lot of people. it's a dirty business, steel making. if it shifts the strategy to the cleaner electric furnaces, that could mean less jobs, less profitability for the company. so it was in the interesting spot other bidders may come in so it's not as much national security as it is who do we want owning these companies that were

very important to the united states for a long period of time. >> we are on the brink of a trade war with china. japan wants to stay on the right side of that deal. fundamentally this is not going to negatively affect u.s./japanese trade. it's not as big as it used to be, but very big. >> japan wants to do more business the u.s. because tensions with china are not good. a few weeks ago, the ceo of softbank, japan's biggest company, one of the richest men in the world, was with president trump promising $100 billion investment from japan into the u.s. trump wanted $200 billion. this is not the end of deal making between the countries. just might not happen in the steel industry or other industries that might be deemed national security sensitive. >> j.d. vance talked about tariff jumping. >> this is interesting. one of the first things donald trump was impose tariffs on steel coming from china. that's a real thing. china does things in its trade that do need to be dealt with.

the idea though is if another country that might have had tariffs on it owns an american company, then they are not subject to the tariffs. >> not necessarily. or there are other ways to up charge that company for bringing its steel into the united states that don't fall under the tariffs moniker so to speak. there are ways to make this happen. it just wasn't going to happen under the biden administration. he made that clear. it could be a very tough road under the trump administration for a deal like had to go through and expect a lot more onshoring in general and this might be the first of a bunch of dead deals. we know japan and the u.s. want to do business together going forward. which see which industries that manifests in. >> if you want more on the american steel industry, watch "flashdance." caleb silver t thank you. ahead, thousands of demonstrators in the national's capital protesting systemic voter fraud. this is not a retelling of the january 6th insurrection in america, though that would be timely, nor did this even happen in the united states. this was the scene in south korea it this week.

i'll explain why next.

♪♪ who knew it was so hard to arrest an impeached president? i'm not referring to our incoming president. though the story has even more comparisons to american

politics, it's actually about south korea. despite frigid temperatures last week, thousands of protesters camped out overnight at a bare leading up to theism impeached south korean's president demanding president yoon be arrested. thousands of other protesters camped out that he not be arrested. at the gate to the president's residence itself, about 100 police officers and investigators trying to detain president yoon faced off with more than 200 presidential bodyguards for more than five hours. the police ultimately retreated. the president was not arrested. the reason for the standoff was president yoon, who has been impeached and suspended from office but not yet removed is under criminal investigation for allegations of insurrection. you may remember month ago he surprised the nation and world by declaring martial law in a televised address in the middle of the night. that led to an hours-long

standoff in which elected lawmakers rushed to parliament to overrule the president's declaration of martial law. south korean troops tried to force their way into parliament while south korean politicians held that emergency session and voted to rescind the martial law decree. it was wild. all this happened while thousands of citizens protested it in the streets. now, at the time the six hours of martial law felt like chaos, but in the months since the south korean national assembly has been holding hearings and collecting testimony from key officials. what they learned appears to be that yoon's declaration of martial law was less chaos and more of a botched premeditated plan to upsend south korea's democracy. sound familiar? according to a statement issued by one of their attorneys days before president yoon declared martial law, four south korean military intelligence officials met at a hamburger joint outside of seoul and sketched out a plan. quote, the plan went like this.

buns martial law was declared, troops enter the commission office and move employees to the basement using zip-ties and masks if necessary. then the troops would check the election machines for any security breaches, end quote. on the night martial law was eventually declared, troops were deployed to the election commission even before the president issued his decree. they seized night shift employees' cellphones, photographed election machines, all of this going back to last april when south korea's opposition party won the nation's parliamentary elections in a landslide over president yoon's party. and after declaring martial law, president yoon claimed the reason he was doing so was not because he wanted to seize power, but because the election in april had somehow been stolen. if any of this sounds familiar to you, keep listening. hours on friday pro-union protesters waved american flags and held signs that read stop the steal.

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♪♪ in the fall of 1870 in san francisco's chinatown a babe was born in a bed am radio above had father's grocery store. he was one of only 518 american-born chinese people in the country at the time of his birth according to the 1870 census. his parents immigrated to the so-called gold mountain, san francisco to seek work. after spending time in san francisco following his birth, the family packed up and moved back to china. while no documentation shows us explicitly why they left, here some context. in 1877, san francisco's chinatown had been overrun by a mob of white men who killed chinese people destroyed businesses and torched

buildings. a few years later congress enacted the chinese exclusion act barring chinese laborers from entering the country. he spent his childhood going back and forth from the u.s. and china. in 1895 when he was in his 20s, he attempted to return to san francisco after marrying a woman in china but he was denied re-entry to the united states because of the chinese exclusion agent. he spent four months detained on a steamship in san francisco bay just miles from his own birthplace while the u.s. government insisted he was not citizen. now, again wong kim was born in the united states after the passage of the 14th amendment which made him citizen by birthright. it reads all persons born or naturalized in the united states and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the united states and of the state wherein they reside, end quote. pretty simple amendment. wong kim was quite straightforwardly a u.s. citizen under the law.

so, he took his denial of citizenship to court in san francisco. the d.a. argued that wong, who was born in the u.s. to parents who were chinese citizens, was, quote, subject to the jurisdiction of another country. china. however, when the case reached the supreme court the justices sided with wong 6-2. wong and his legal representation knew their best chance was to tie his own fate to the many thousands of white children of immigrants who, according to the court's final decision, quote, have always been considered and treat as citizens of the united states, end quote. now, a little bit of history. the 14th amendment was ratified in 1868 to address this country's original sin of slavery, to reverse previous law and court precedent that denied the citizenship and si humanity of nearly 4 million formerly enslaved people. but it was wong's case that made clear that the 14th amendment applied to almost, almost all people born on american soil

regard of race or ancestry. the reason i say almost is that the 14th amendment did not apply to native americans until the indian citizenship act of 1924. wong's victory was not a given. anti-asian and anti-chinese sentiment was high when wong fought his case. the very same supreme court years earlier claimed a oriental invasion was a menace to the civilization when. even in that climate, our constitutional principles shown through. which is why president-elect trump's crusade against birthright citizenship is so alarming. this is what trump told nbc's kristen welker in early december. >> you promise to end birthright citizenship on day one. is that still your plan? >> yeah, absolutely. >> the 14th amendment says that, quote, all persons born in the united states are citizens. can you go you get around the 14th amendment with an

executive? >> maybe have to go back to the people. we have to end it. we are the only country that has it. >> we are not the only country which has birthright citizenship. excluding the united states, 32 countries have some form of it. but that's largely unimportant to donald trump as long as -- as is the long history of precedent that protects birthright citizenship in this country. if trump does choose to act and is legally challenged, the case may wind up in front of a 6-3 conservative sum majority supreme court. we don't know how this new court would act. the text and history of birthright citizenship is clear. if you are born in the country, you're citizen of this country. establishing that principle and enshrining it in constitution was an integral part of repudiating this nation's history of slavery. to undermine the constitution's guarantee of birthright citizenship in any way would be a return to some of our nation's darkest days and the surrender to the worst impulses in american history.

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♪♪ before the break i told you about the history of birthright citizenship in the country. now i want to turn to a debate, another debate happening over immigration and that's the topic of h 13 vegies as, the temporary visa program for skilled workers. employers can recruit highly educated foreign professionals for jobs in specific specialty occupations, mathematics, medical science, technology and engineering. the government sets an annual

cap of 85,000 h 1 b visas. it's under the microscope. many immigration hard-liners in trump's camp called for termination of the program, while elon musk and vivek ramaswamy have supported it. trump for his part called the program great and made no indication he plans to eliminate it, though he criticized similar programs in the past. joining me for more is zeke hernandez, an associate professor the wharton school and author of the truth about immigration, while successful societies welcome newcomers and stewart stevens, at the lincoln project, author of the conspiracy to end america, five ways my old party is driving democracy to autocracy. zeke, i had a great conversation with you earlier this week, and i heard a great conversation you had with nicolle about this. i wanted to get you in the same room to talk about it. now, zeke, the h 1-b program, like every government policy is imperfect. you argued that it is remarkably helpful to american growth.

it's got critics. one of the criticism is that it suppresses wages. talk to me about the h 1 b program a little bit. >> look, the bottom line is that the program is one of the main avenues by which we get access to the world's best and brightest. these are people who bring at least five crucial economic benefits, they bring innovation, investment, they bring talent, they bring consumption and they also pay taxes. i don't know of anybody who doesn't want those benefits. so talking about ending or eliminating this program is talking about ending or eliminating those five thins. we have compelling evidence that they create jobs for american workers, that is for every worker they hire, companies hire more than one additional person for a job. we have evidence that these people on these visas disproportionately contribute to patents. for example, immigrants are only 16% of inventors, but they are responsible for 36% of all patents in the u.s. and many of those immigrants come into the

country on h 1 b advisories and they start many of the technology companies that create products and services that make our lives better. that's what's at stake in the debate. >> stewart, donald trump for now is coming down in support of musk and h-b visas. he said in part, quote, i will end forever the us of h-1b as a cheap labor program and institute a requirement to hire american workers for every visa and immigration program, end quote. that leads me to wonder whether trump will stick to this. you have an interesting theory with nicolle the other day in which you mentioned that if all the people on h-1bs came from norway, trump would have no problem with this? >> yeah. i think that's pretty obvious. you know, donald trump's not going to take a position to limit scandinavian models coming to the united states. you know, this is sort of a nutty argument. the problem with the h-1b visa

is it's too limited. only 85,000 a year. we should double or triple that. the founder of zoom is on it. the people, the guy who runs google and another person who co-founded google, h-1b visa. the person running microsoft is h-1b visa. as far as what's good for american workers, take the coal industry. the solution to clean coal is not going likely to be found by a coal worker, a coal miner. it's going to be founded by someone who has high-tech skills. this is just a win-win. we ought to do more of these and we ought to expand so if you get a graduate degree in the u.n. with your diploma you should have a green card stapled to it. this would increase the economy. this would be good for everybody. >> this is an important point you make, zeke, that i want to underscore here. the h-1b visa, some of the krit is simple, may be legitimate, is

that it's limiting for a worker because the visa holder gets sponsored by their employer and that means that they are stuck in that job. it's hard for someone on h-1b visa to go to a competitive job from another company, whether a hospital or a tech company. that's why stewart is making the point that they should staple a green card so you have the right of mobility. so we attract more h-1b visa holders because they think they can get better jobs in america. >> yeah, that's right. these are employer sponsored visas, and so the employer has a lot of control. it's very hard for workers on h-1b visas to move to other jobs or even to quit their jobs and start a company. in fact, there is research that shows that the moment someone on an h-1b is able to get citizenship or be on a different visa, they are likely to start companies like the one that stewart mentioned, zoom or pfizer, moderna, these companies

that make our jobs better -- our lives better, excuse me, and create a lot of jobs. so the program certainly can be improved in its design, not only the fact that we don't have enough of them, but to fully allow these immigrants to make their contributions that make us better off. i think at a minimum we don't want to reduce the number or eliminate the problem. we want to expand it and make it nor flexible. >> i was talking about u.s. steel early europe. strange bedfellows, you know know who is what said. senator bernie sanders accused companies of using the h # b program to bring in, quote, low wage indentured servants. part of the criticism you can't move around. he is criticizing from a labor perspective. fair criticism. not the same reason that a whole bunch of people on the right are critical of the program, but it is part of our immigration issue? the country we have a lot of different views and imperfect

systems and we have to have a comprehensive view of how to improve immigration in the country. >> what is your concept of how the economy grows and what it means to be an american. we are talking about birthright citizenship. so donald trump's mom is scottish. so elon musk's kids are not going to be united states citizens because their birthright citizenship examples? if you believe that the united states is not a limited pie, that it can grow, which every bit of evidence would indicate, i mean, look where the stock market is, look where employment is now, anything that will increase that is good. we need to really borery about america when people stop trying to come to america to get better jobs. north korea doesn't have an immigration problem. we should think about that. >> yeah. america is still the chief destination that people want to come to. we should work hard to keep that. it is interesting because in fact the point stuart makes goes

further. we have seen studies, including those dungy the government. if we restrict legal immigration to the country, the economy stands a chance of shrinking, not growing over the next ten years. >> yeah, in fact we don't need to speculate. we know because we tried it before. we tried it in 1924. we tried it during the great depression by deporting half of all the mexican-americans in the country under the pretext that we would create american jobs. we have done it during the obama administration with the security communities program. all the evidence we have on those historical attempts to limit immigration or reduce it created less jobs for americans, have reduced innovation, have reduced entrepreneurship. in other words, they have made us worse off, right. it's the most un-american thing we could possibly do. one thing to add on this, too, is that i think this idea of limiting immigration or making it harder for people to get citizenship comes from the thinking that, well, we have to really make sure, we have to try

hard to make sure people assimilate. otherwise, they won't commit to our national enterprise. the evidence is quite the opposite. citizenship is not like a hurdle that people should overcome. citizenship is a very powerful incentive for people to contribute to our national enterprise. studies show when you make it harder for people to get citizenship, they contribute less because they don't feel like they belong. so citizenship after people pass of course basic requirements should be something that is not that hard to get because it will allow people to make more contributions. >> i want to understand a little bit about what the backlash to this feels like because with the budget -- or with the continuing resolution, 38 -- first 38 people decided to snub donald trump and elon musk and then there were ten. steve bannon, stephen miller who will be in the white house, guys who want to eliminate h-1bs. they are up against a different crowd. how is that going to play out?

>> well, sort of fascinating, this fight between musk and bannon. i think you have to look at the power center. steve bannon has no power at all without donald trump's approval. that's not true of elon musk. i mean, right now elon musk is sort of in this president mode. if donald trump and elon musk broke up, which is going to happen, elon musk is not going to disappear. he still is going to be the wealthiest person in the world he may have difficulties with the great tax benefits that -- and beneficiaries of the united states government that he gets with contracts, but he had still be an important wealthy guy that has big companies. that's not true of steve bannon. look, do you -- are you driven by fear, which miller and bannon are? and these are two clearly damaged individuals who or sort of using public policy to work out personal issues. or do you believe that we have an optimistic vision of america?

i go book to ronald reagan's last speech. say what you will about ronald reagan. it was an old what it meant to be an american, how anybody could come here to be an american. and if we lose that ethos, we really have lost, i think, a lot of what it means to be an american. >> well said. gentlemen, thank you for your contributions today. zeke hernandez and stewart stevens. before we go, starting tomorrow morning my friend and co-founder of the singular alley v club, ali vitali sits down in the anchor chair for the first time as the new host of "way too early." she is bringing a wide range of political expertise. if you usually wake up that early or if you are awake from the night before, join ali vitali for way too early every morning at 5:00 eastern.

be there. that's it for me. thanks for watching. catch me back saturday and sundays 10:00 a.m. follow and listen to velshi wherever you get your podcasts. also on youtube, msnbc.com/alley and follow me on threads, blue sky, linked in. stay where you are. "inside with jen psaki" begins right now. psaki" begins right now. we are seeing how chaotic the new congress is going to be. there will be opportunity for democrats. legendary democratic strategist james car gil with a few ideas about how to capitalize. ahead of another anniversary of january 6th, donald trump was partying at mar-a-lago last night with the architects of the plot to steal the 2020 election. i'll get congressman james