that's it for me. thanks for watching. catch me back saturday and sundays 10:00 a.m. follow and listen to velshi wherever you get your podcasts. also on youtube, msnbc.com/alley and follow me on threads, blue sky, linked in. stay where you are. "inside with jen psaki" begins right now. psaki" begins right now. we are seeing how chaotic the new congress is going to be. there will be opportunity for democrats. legendary democratic strategist james car gil with a few ideas about how to capitalize. ahead of another anniversary of january 6th, donald trump was partying at mar-a-lago last night with the architects of the plot to steal the 2020 election. i'll get congressman james

clyburn's reaction? and a judge orders trump to appear for sentencing next week ten days before he is sworn? what to expect and why it matters. ♪♪ okay. so on friday, mike johnson was re-elected as speaker of the house. not without a healthy dose of drama. he didn't have the votes initially. for a moment it looked like we might be headed for another mccarthy-esque dumpster fire on washington. and then two of the key republican hold-outs decided to vote for johnson. of course, right after getting phone calls from donald trump. sometimes that's how it goes. if you are mike johnson, safe to say you are breathing a sigh of relief right now because it could have gone another way. just ask kevin mccarthy. given what he went through a year ago, and it's important to

note before mccarthy's five-day, 15-ballot fiasco, the last time a speaker of the house was not elected on the first ballot without any drama was back in 1923. see, the speaker is supposed to be boring and predictable. once again, it wasn't. as "the washington post" reported a total of nine house republicans used the vote on friday to show displeasure with johnson in one way or another. that number is significant, remember that number, because that's how many it takes to trig i triggerer a vote to remove him. chip roy was one of those nine. he basically threatened johnson after voting for him. >> it was very important for us to make clear that we are going to expect the agenda that the president ran on to get delivered. that's why there were nine people who withheld their votes. sends a message we will be watching them. >> we are going to be watching you, mike johnson.

so, johnson's sigh of leave might be a short one it turns out, like a day or two or couple days. and all of this is just one more sign of how chaotic this congress is going to be. i mean, buckle up, everyone. mike johnson just barely eked out a victory. now he is going to be in charge of the slimmest house majority in modern history. that's not to mention the trump of it all or the elon musk of it all. tweeting and tanking bills, that story is not over. it's gonna be messy. that much is clear tat this point. so moving forward one of the things in addition to all of that, one of the other things i am most interested in is how democrats are going to take advantage of all of this chaos. that's the thing about being in the minority. this majority is razor thing. the agenda will be very unpopular with majority of the american people. and these republicans in congress will be beholden to the whims of not just donald trump, but his buddy elon musk. now, that's a scary place for

the country to be for sure, but also a place full of political opportunity for the democratic party. strategist james carville is out with a new op-ed in "the new york times" about what went wrong in the 2024 election is where the democrats should go from here, which is the question we are all thinking about. something most strategists don't do in the op-ed, he admits he was wrong. his add voice focusing on the top of the ticket. we will talk about that. i think there are plenty of lessons for democrats in congress, too. as for what went wrong, he returns to what may sound like a familiar refrain, which is it's basically, he says, we lost for one very simple reason. it was, it is, and it always will be the economy stupid. and as for where the party should go from here, i kinda lays out a strategy in a few parts. first is to oppose. he writes, quote, we have got to stop making trump himself our main focus.

our messaging machine must sharply focus on opposing the unpopular republican economic agenda that will live on past him. vocally oppose the party, not the person or extremism of his movement. and house republicans have certainly given democrats fodder for that. here is some of the top things on their agenda for this congress. extend the 2017 trump tax law, which largely favors the wealthiest americans and big corporations. not exactly popular in the country. repeal clean energy funding and provide more resources to carry out mass deportations. so the whole point here, he is saying, don't oppose these policies because trump supports them. oppose them because they are bad policies for the country and you and make that point. the second part of the strategy is to go on offense. quote, we must be on the offensive with a wildly popular and populous economic agenda that republicans cannot be -- force them to po post to raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour,

make roe v. wade an economic messaging issue. and take back the immigration issue by making an economy issue and force the gop to deny bipartisan reform that expedites entry for high-performing talent and those who bring business into our nation. that sounds pretty smart to me. and at least if you disagree with parts of it, is it seems like a form of offense which is the way you win, you don't win by hiding in a corner. look, the vote was another reminder to everybody watching that republicans control nearly everything in washington. but it was also a reminder that this is not going to be smooth sailing for them. it's going to be very messy. which is why it also may be the perfect time for democrats to get out there an aggressive strategy, be on offense to show why they can and should be put back into power in two years. joining me is long time democratic strategist james carville. hopefully, i summarized the op-ed well there.

i want to start with the lessons in your piece. it was very specific. i know you want people to kind of pull from it what they may pull from it. one of the things you talk about is how to oppose policies that the republicans are putting forward or put them on their back heels, i guess, by forcing them to vote against things that are popular. how do you do that in the minority for people at home and haven't worked in the business of politics or washington, how can they exactly do. ? >> thank you. a shout out to my former tulane student, ali vitali, who has her own show on msnbc. >> 5:00 a.m. tomorrow. >> i am generally up at that time anyway. i will get a chance to watch it. >> don't you appear on the first show? should we book you? are you ready to get up? >> so, let's go back and what i think the democrats should focus on a limited number of things that have the following criteria. there must be massively popular all across the democratic party.

secondly, there must be massively popular across the united states. among republicans, independents, everybody else. third, it has to be something the republicans can't beef on. so they can't beef for raising the minimum wage because people won't let them. the financiers won't let them, billionaires won't let them. protections for women in roe v. wade because that's part of who they are. then they can't beat for tax cuts people make $400,000 a year and take that money and use it ho help young people buy or rent a home. this is 75% popularity stuff. all we have to do be there and hammer it home. and like i say, three things. popular across the party, popular across the country, and the republicans can't beat -- ram it home. ram it home. >> ram it home. it's a bumper sticker there.

let me ask you, because some of this is about what we've learned over the last couple of weeks and how to navigate what a republican-led congress under speaker mike johnson looks like. what -- i just went through what i learned. what did you learn from watching the speaker's vote and the last couple of weeks with elon musk and trump and everything that happened? >> i learned more in the five minutes after the vote than i ever want to know. when mike johnson is sitting in the well of the house and attribute add prayer to thomas jefferson, which is a bald faced lie, okay? a bald faced lie. so they started with a lie. they are going to continue to lie. and they are going to end with a lie. so let's be very forceful and let's be very upfront here. and the billionaire class in this country his exercise such power that they got rid of the cartoonists at "the washington post," okay? they are having editorial sway

over a cartoon that runs. i grew up with conrad, studied thomas nas. david shipley, what happened under his watch is a disgrace to journalism in america. i don't know how into guy could get up in the morning. >> she wit, to be clear. she quit. she made a statement -- >> right, because they wouldn't run her cartoon. >> that's right. >> i don't blame her for quitting. >> all right? if you are a journalist, if they sit here at msnbc and tell you, you can't say anything about the trump tax cuts because executives might get him, you are going to walk out the door. >> that's right. no one is telling me that fortunately. i can trash the tax cuts as much -- let's me ask you -- let me go back to congress because this is an interesting part and i think it doesn't get enough attention how they can be part of the opposition. kristen welker asked senator chuck schumer about your op-ed. he seemed to agree with you. he gave his thoughts what democrats can do differently on

the economy moving forward. i want play that and talk about it with you. >> we talked about the mec hanis of the legislation and details of the legislation and didn't show the end of empathy and concern to average or show enough of it to average working families. so what we're going to do is spend a lot of time talking to working families, showing them how much we care about them, and not just talk about legislation, but talk about the conditions that have made so many working families worried about their futures. >> that sounds pretty good to me. we will see how it's implemented. what do you think? >> i think there is always a reason i kind of have some affection for senator schumer. he understands on the fly that we are not communicating, but we need benchmarks to tell people we care about them. america these a raise. let's raise it to $15 and a hour. workers are getting the shortened of the stick here.

let's ask these billionaires to pay the tax rate that they paid during the most prosperous era in the united states in the 1990s and contribute to young people having a future in the country. let's protect a pregnant woman in walmart who already has two kids and would have an economic and social burden that is unimaginable. let's stand up for these people, let's show these people we stand up for them. it's not just them. everybody in america wants working people to make some more money than they do, everybody in america wants the rich to pay their fair share. i say everybody. most americans. most americans wouldn't to give women and families the protection that they had under roe v. wade. this is not easy, people. this is really pretty simple. and we just have to accentuate this and drive it home. >> let me ask you something i have been thinking a lot about. i mean, one of the things you write in the piece, and this

struck my mind, got me thinking, too, to democratic presidential hopefuls, two things. 1,000 authentic you are on the economy and, two, how well you deliver on a podcast. the delivery mechanisms is an important question. i want to ask about the other piece. one of the things that strikes me about democrats is they talk in consultant d.c. speak, right, it becomes like poll tested language that people are reading off of. how do you break people of that or do people just have to do it themselves? >> well, i think the best way to, you know, in the marine corps there is three ways to lead, by example, by example, and by example. i think people like you, who have considerable experience, spokesperson for the white house, by doing this or maybe somebody like me who people say, well, that guy has been around a long time, maybe we should listen to him, is don't talk in that jargonistic language. you remember in the '92

campaign, i said the economy, stupid, i was talking to the geniuses in the campaign. i was telling them, all educated, smarter than i was, don't be too smart here, okay? let's just be authentic and to the point. so i think people like you and i can bring this home by example and don't use that idiotic npr jorgen when you are talking to voters. >> we got to diack democratic -- we love academics, we have to make it less ivory tower. i am here with you -- >> tone it down. >> there are so many things i want to ask you about. we have to talk soon about how our former bosses like to make people mad and that's part of how they won. we will have you come back to talk about. james carville, always love it. >> anytime. thank you. >> thank you. coming up ahead of another anniversary of january 6th, donald trump celebrates and praises the architects of the plot to steal the 2020 election.

literally that happened last night. south carolina congressman jim clyburn is standing by. aisle ask him about it coming up next. next

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♪♪ tomorrow is january 6th, which means just like they did four years ago, both chambers of congress will beat in a joint seg to count electoral votes and ultimately certify the election results. but unlike four years ago no one is challenging the results and no violent mob is expected to try to stop them. though it is remarkable that the man who tried to stop the process and overturn the will of the people last time is the man who whose election victory they will be certifying this time. and in case you wonder how trump used this full circle moment, he seems to be reveling in it. i mean, last night he apparently partied the mar-a-lago with key figures involved in his attempt

to overturn the election. it was a celebration. skbraun eastman. they watched a film called the east man dilemma. he was the lawyer who advocated for the plan for mike pence to reject states electors in 2020 to stop the certification of the results. in a video posted online that appears to be filmed from the audience at mar-a-lago last night, trump praised eastman and his efforts in 2020. >> johnny, you know he was -- he had -- that's why they changed the law. nobody wants to talk about that. >> joining me is democratic congressman jim clyburn of south carolina. congressman, great to see you. thank you. happy new year and thank you for being with me. i have so many things i want to ask you about. tomorrow, january 6th, it's on your mind. you were at the capitol that day. i just played that clip of donald trump praising john eastman from last night. and we are two weeks away from trump being sworn in and potentially pardoning people who participated in the insurrection. i wanted to know how you are

digesting that reality. >> well, thank you very much for having me. it is a very unnerving moment. i do not believeella repeat of that. we will have a vice president presiding on -- who believes in the peaceful transition of the office. and she will. she will preside over her own defeat. i saw al gore do that some years ago. this is what makes america great, it not whether or not we have more hits on your social media than someone else or you can insult more people than the other person, but whether you can commit yourself to maintaining those things that keep us strong as a country and keep us great as a nation. that's what you are going to see tomorrow.

a great contrast. i hope the american people will take time out to watch this tomorrow and, hopefully, have their faith in this great country renewed. >> such an important reminder. let me ask you about the new congress. it was just sworn in after a bit of a slightly dramatic but not that dramatic vote for speaker. it's a very narrow majority, as you talked about. you said and others in leadership have said in the democratic side that you have to work with republicans to get things done, which i think people might be happy to hear. what does that look like? what kind of things do you think you can work with republicans to get done? in addition to, of course, keeping the government open, what beyond that? >> i think that the speaker ought to put into practice, as he presides, with a full congress the same thing he did in order to get elected on the first ballot. he kept the vote open for a

while until he could sit down and negotiate within his conference to get the votes he needed. that's what he needs to do as speaker. preside over the congress in such a way that when issues of importance come before the congress, give us time to sit down for him, to sit down on the democratic side with hakeem jefferies and find common ground. they found common ground and got the votes they needed. that's all you need in order to get deals passed in the house of representatives. and we are not going to be fully constituted. so he has to get to 216, 215 in order to get an agenda passed. sit down with the opposing views, find common ground, and get it done. he is showing us that he can do

it. let's hope that he will. >> there is an idea that james carville, among others, and, obviously, you have been a part of minority rule of the house in the past, put forward, which is kind of forcing the opposing party to vote on things that are very popular with the public. that you have long been an advocate for, like raising the minimum wage, codifying abortion. are those things that you think democratic leadership will push forward? i saw, obviously, jeffries gave a speech about protecting social security and medicare the other a day. do you hope you have the votes to force votes on those issues? >> yes, but i think we have to explain the issues to the american people in the way they can understand it. let me give you a good example. medicaid. i keep hearing all of this tuck about medicaid and -- that have not expanded medicaid. medicaid 285%, owns by nursing

home care. it's about every single family in america needing what medicaid provides. but we don't explain that to people. i can't tell you how many times i talk to people, especially in rural communities, they have no idea that these nursing homes are funded through medicaid. people keep passing it off as something for low-income people only and doesn't apply to other families. we have got to go to the american people and they have got to understand exactly what's in the legislation, and that's what we are not doing a good job of. that is where we have the problem. so i agree with carrville as to his overall approach to this. but i think we have to spend a little time on the message and the messengers because we all know when it comes to the national party, we have -- the

democratic national committee, we have the senate campaign committee, the house democratic campaign committee, these are separate entities and they have to figure out how to get the american people to see how they differ and how they can work together because that is where we're missing. >> the medicaid piece is so so important. i said yesterday i want to do something ton this. nobody understands how many people it helps in the country. we will do that. before you go, i know personally how close you are to president biden, how important you are to him. nbc news is reporting today he plans to deliver two speeches before leaving office. he has quite a record to stand on. on a more personal level what you hope people remember about the impact his presidency has had on the country as we look to the final two weeks of his presidency here. >> i think you are beginning to see headlines already about what

this president's policies have meant. for the american people, and they are very positive. i have seen op-ed pieces saying that trump has -- biden for inheriting a country in real good state. and i believe what's gonna happen here is president joe biden is going to have to wait for the country to look back and give the understanding of what he was able to do in those four years. remember, harry truman just served for a little more than one term. he only got elected one time. he was eligible to run again but opted not to. so he is now in the top ten of american presidents. and with me, he is in the top four or five. and i think the same thing will happen with joe biden.

he has had a very consequential term in office. one of, i believe, the most consequential in modern history. >> congressman jim clyburn, thank you so much. great seeing you. thank you for joining me today. and coming up, judge merchan orders donald trump to appear for sentencing next week ten days before his inauguration. i'm guessing you have lots of questions about that. lucky our resident lawyers are standing by. they join me next. anding by. they join me next.

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combative attempt to dismiss the case. merchan said that presidential immunity doesn't extent to president-elect who is not in office yet. but he also ruled out any sentence of incarceration. instead, he suggested he will order an unconditional discharge, that is trump won't face jail or probation or any other punishment. and given the crime here, that would be pretty unusual under any other circumstance. in fact, "the new york times" review of the 30 felony false records convictions in manhattan since 2014 revealed that no other defendant received an unconditional discharge. they received jail and prison sentences, probation, conditional discharges, community service or fines. andrew weissmann is the former general counsel at the fbi, neal katyal is the former acting u.s. solicitor general. you know them both. here we are. okay. neal, i think, obviously, this was a strongly worded from judge merchan. for anyone who is not a lawyer

and wondering what is the point of a sentencing hearing but not punishing him at all, what is the point? >> yeah, so it's strongly worded in two different senses. one, the first part, judge merchan really says, look, trump violated the law, had felony convictions. this jury, this guilty verdict wasn't handed down by operatives or elites. it was a jury of 12 of donald trump's peers who listened, deliberated, and affirmed the enduring principle that no one is above the law. that's part one of the decision. the judge says i am not going to overturn this conviction. the jury rendered it in a fair and impartial way. part two about the sentencing, the judge says, but i am going to -- i am likely to give an unconditional discharge, which, as you say, means no jail time. it's still important because it's still a felony conviction and donald trump almost certainly is going to appeal it in any number of ways. but right now donald trump

stands as a convicted felon. sometimes you do have felons who don't serve jail time. it's really rare as "the new york times" study that you pointed out says, but it is possible. >> all right. andrew, i am trying to help explain to our viewers here, no one better than you two. is there anything the judge could have done differently to change where we are clearly arriving at on friday or not? >> that is a great question because it gets at the dilemma that the judge has, because the only other real choice absent giving donald trump what he wanted, which is an outright dismissal of the case and the judge rejected that, and as neal said the language, as you pointed to out, was very strong. he called the case a premeditated and continued deception by the leader of the free world. nothing about the sentencing takes that away. it's worth remembering, whether sentenced or not, that is what

the jury found he did and the judge has said that. but the only other option for the judge was to put off the sentencing until four years from now after donald trump is no longer president, and at that point even the district attorney's office said jail would not be appropriate. so this is a really unusual situation. so it's hard to compare it to the other 30 cases that "the new york times" looked at because you would have had this four-year hiatus. and the final thing that is important to note, by sentencing donald trump this friday, he actually will trigger donald trump's appellate rights because if this was waiting for four years, the normal rules are that donald trump would have this hanging over his head for his entire presidency. so, you know, many ways this is a really -- decision, givers finality to the district courts, you know, the trial courts

ruling here, and sends a message about this case to the public. >> there were a number of messages at least in my reading in how judge merchan wrote this. it was scathing. he also calls out trump's lawyers for using language in their filings he says has no place in legal pleadings. these two, for anybody who is not following this, and i think many of you are, are about to have big jobs at the doj. what does that tell you? the language they have, how they approached this, about what we should be preparing for, that these two individuals who the judge went out of his way to kind of call out are about to have big department of justice jobs? >> you know, it's a shot across the bow not just for the lawyers, but for donald trump himself who had done any -- made any number of public statements about the court, about the judge, about the process that i think the judge was worried

about. the judge went so far as to actually quote chief justice john roberts' statement on new year's eve about attacks on the judiciary destroying -- trying to destroy its credibility and undermine the safety and security of judges. so i think that's definitely part of it. the other thing, to return to the earlier conversation, i want to make clear, the judge is not saying donald trump you did something that wasn't that significant and, therefore, i am not imposing jail time on you. rather, he is saying because a state can't jail a sitting president, that that option was off the table. so if donald trump thrice to say, look, you know, i'm totally exonerated, the way was in the mueller report on the basis of this decision, absolutely not. the judge is saying by the constitution, one state can't undo the whole just like south carolina in 1862 couldn't put abraham lincoln in jail and undermine the nation.

it's not about the crime. it's about the fact that donald trump was elected and will serve oz our president. >> we have 30 seconds here. andrew, you poured over this. anything we missed you think is important for people to understand? >> well, i think your comment about the lawyering is important because it's hard to see how the new incoming administration at the department of justice is going to uphold the rule of law when one of the things that the judge found, and i'll quote it, is that he said it's public record the defendant has gone to great lengths to broadcast on social media and other forums his lack of respect for judges, juries, grand juries and the justice system as a whole. so, you know, that is what the justice system, the department of justice that neal and i served in for collectively decades, it's hard to see how you have that institution concern with a president with

that regard. >> andrew weissmann, neal katyal, everybody's favorite legal eagles, thank you so much. happy new year to our potato. coming up, republicans quick to try to use the deadly new orleans terrorist attack to their political advantage. and they did not let facts get their way. i'll explain when we come back. o a healthy gut environment. benefiber's plant-based prebiotic fiber gently nourishes the good bacteria, working with your body to help your gut, and you, flourish. effortlessly. every day. grow what feels good. with benefiber.

right now officials are updating the public on it this week's terrorist attack in new orleans. they said there is still no evidence that the attacker worked with an accomplice and they are following leads international nationally. they are still gathering the facts. that's important to note because in the immediate aftermath of wednesday's attacks republicans and right-wing media didn't wait for the fact. said they wasted no time in resorting to one of their favorite tactics. whipping up fear around immigration.

also another favorite source, the chaotic hours after a man plowed his car through a crowd on bourbon street in the early hours of new year's day are killing at least 14 people, fox news published a claim from anonymous sources that the truck crossed the border two days prior to the attack. of course, when they published that report investigators were still trying to piece together who the attacker even was. there was still so much they didn't know. that was a couple days ago. but that didn't stop the next president from taking to truth social to blame the terrorist attack on criminals coming into the united states. now, within minutes of course as vice president vance reposted the claim and soon other republican lawmakers like marjorie taylor greene started pushing this unconfirmed report that the attack was carried out by someone who recently crossed the border. that initial fox report turned out to be very wrong. after publishing the report, one

of the senior national correspondents walked back the claim saying that the truck actually crossed the border in november and that the person who drove the truck across the border was not the shooter. that's a pretty key piece of information. now, soon after fox posted its correction the fbi put out a statement saying the attacker was a u.s. citizen from texas and a veteran of the u.s. army. yet, those crucial new facts didn't change the focus of a number of republicans' or right-wing media. after the clarification from fox, after federal law enforcement officials told the country that the attacker was an american citizen, they have continued to link the new year's day attack to the risk of migrants crossing the border. >> congressional republicans, we near in the house in the senate have repeatedly asked the dhs under the biden administration about the correlation, the obvious concern about terrorism and the wide open border, dangerous people were coming here in droves and setting up

potentially terrorist cells around the country. >> close the border. secure our sovereignty. the entire world knows that we have an open border. they intend to hit us. >> when you can't secure the borders, refuse to call out radical islamic terrorism, you get the events of october 7th, this past week in new orleans. >> i am more scared of the people who are preradicalized, who come into the country easily with an agenda who want to kill us all. >> two of those people were speaker of the house, second to the line in the presidency and trump's national security advisor spreading inaccurate information about a terrorist attack in one of america's cities. what happened in the hours of after new year's day was horrifying and we should all be very clear about that. this was a personal who is an american citizen and raised it in texas. now, rather than deal with that incredibly disturbing fact, the president-elect, republicans in congress, many that you just saw

in the video, and right-wing media have been focused on falsely tying this trajectory r preferred narrative about the border. that's not an accident. they know what they are doing. donald trump and allies want to stoke fears. the goal is to inject panic and bolster a specific narrative and lay the groundwork and justification for their most extreme policies like plans for mass roundups and deportation and ending of birthright citizenship. but the job of any president, all of our elected officials, is not to lie about tragedies to meet political ends. their job is to gather the facts, work with law enforcement understand why it happened to better protect ourselves in the future. this week was a sobering reminder of a lot of things. one is our next president sees things very differently. the former secretary of homeland security and i'll ask her about all of this when we come back. m. r with age.

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♪♪ as it relates this investigation, all investigative details and evidence that we have now still support that jabbar acted alone here in new orleans. we have not seen any indications of an accomplice in the united states. >> moments ago at a press conference in new orleans. officials said there is no evidence that the attacker acted

with any accomplices. but they also said they are chasing leads all over the country and internationally. this is normal. this is what happens with law enforcement. joining me somebody who dealt with this dwight a bit, former secretary of homeland security janet napolitano, also the former governor of arizona. so, let me start, governor, so many things i want to ask you about. he said there is no evidence of an accomplice, they are chasing plenty of leads. what other questions do i think officials are grappling with right now and what questions are top of mind for you right now? >> well, i think one of the fundamental questions with jabbar is how did he go from being a seemingly normal citizen, military member, to adopting a very radical form of islamic faith to the extent of the violence that he committed. what was that radicalization process, and could it have been picked up earlier in order to

prevent the acts that he committed. >> such an interesting part of this, i just talked briefly before -- right before we were talking about how when you are blaming it on people coming over the border, which is not what happened in this case, you are taking your eye off exactly that, which is something that people should pay attention to. i wanted to is you a little bit -- because you dealt with law enforcement so much and the challenges that they are facing all the time, which is significant, and one of the challenges they are facing under trump is kind of this spreading of information that's not tied to what the law enforcement officials are actually finding in investigations, either the pace or what they are concluding. can you talk a little bit about the impact that has on local law enforcement efforts when they are just trying to do their job, get to the bottom of it and the pace is sometimes not what people want it to be but it is what it is in these processes. >> it is what it is. and, you know, the kind of immediate reaction or

misinformation that was put out that this was somehow related to the border is at a minimum a huge distraction from the real investigative efforts that need to be undertaken, which are more difficult than simply throwing out that the problem is related to the border as if every problem is related to the border, which we know is not true. the border deserves to be defended and respected, but it is not the cause of all of these things that have happened. and the whole radicalization process is very difficult for law enforcement generally, local, state, federal, and those so-called lone wolf, the person who doesn't act in concert with anyone else. so there are no communications to intercept. there is no way to get an informant inserted. those kinds of investigative methods don't work when you are talking about a lone wolf. so you have this combination of

really trying to understand what is still, i think, a mystery to most in law enforcement, all in law enforcement, actually, is this radicalization process, but also the lone wolf phenomenon. >> this is all happening with a backdrop of trump is nominated a up number of people to serve in positions in government and national security roles. i want to ask you about your former role because he has nominated a forever governor, kristi noem, to serve as the secretary of homeland security. there are -- this kind of to me focuses on why we need more vet, why there should be questions asked at the hearings that are significant. what do you hope she is asked at the hearing as they are making a decision about whether she is the right person to serve as the secretary? >> well, i think she is asked basic questions about what she understand about the department of homeland security, and then how she would prioritize the many missions of the department.

and then i'm sure she will get a lot of questions about immigration and border enforcement. that goes with the job. but so does fema. so, how does she intend to protect fema from misinformation about saying it's politicized the relief process, as we saw in north carolina this past fall. what does she want to do about the protection of the nation's critical infrastructure from cyberattacks, which are many and varied, and have become almost ubiquitous. how does she intend to relate to the white house? where she exercise independent adjustment or simply do what the president or senior advisors tell her to do. and how will she manage the department? the department is the size of 10% of the total state's population and it's spread all over the country and in many foreign countries as well.

what management skills or techniques does she intend to bring to bear as a cabinet secretary. >> janet napolitano, good advice for people prepping for hearings there. thank you so much for joining me. we'll be right back. with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye: too much tear evaporation. for relief that's ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ remove contact lenses before using miebo. wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ ask your eye doctor about prescription miebo. ♪♪ wait. noom has glp-1 meds now? noom, the psychology based weight loss company? yes, noom combines medication and behavior change so you can lose the weight and keep it off. and it starts at just $149. noom. the smart way to lose weight. these sheets feel amazing! i added downy ultra soft to the wash! i wish we could get out of dinner with ben and kate.

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that does it for me today but stay where you are because there is much more news coming up on msnbc. a very good day