news, thank you for staying up late. we will see you again tomorrow. ow. okay. i'm not going to lie. there has been a day here in washington. we are in the middle of a huge snowstorm. schools are closed and the roads are pretty empty out there. and yet, lawmakers made their way to the capitol to peacefully certify donald trump's victory. today is the anniversary of january 6 when four years ago, the same man who was just elected president sent a violent mob to the capitol. let's acknowledge for a moment that it is all a lot. with everyone back in congress, we have many amazing guests stopping by tonight to talk about all of it.

congressman jamie raskin will be here. he served on the house select committee that investigated january 6. aquilino gonell, former sergeant in the capitol police who protected the capitol that date and he wrote an amazing op-ed and he will join me in studio. senator andy kim will be here and of all the images from the day, the pictures of senator kim cleaning up in the capitol on january 7, you can see that on your screen, ranked in the top for me what i remember. i will talk to senator raphael warnock as we continue to remember the life and legacy of president jimmy carter and they had a special relationship that we will talk about. >> before that, went to start on this day from four years ago. this was the spot on the west front of the capitol, where insurrectionists armed with guns, knives, bear spray, baseball bats, flag poles, and their bare hands rushed the

capitol. desperate to get inside to violently disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. two weeks from today, in that very same spot you see on your screen, the man who sparked that riot, the man who sat in the comfort of his dining room watching tv while this was happening, ignoring the pleas begging him to do something, will take the oath of office again. it is mindbending. it is infuriating and perplexing . it's a lot of words i cannot say on tv right now so i will not. there are big political questions of how we got here. there are big questions of whether the horror of that day four years ago resonates with the country. it didn't resonate enough to prevent the man who lit the match from being elected president of the united states. that is clear. we spent a lot of time talking about the politics of january 6, just like we talk about the politics of a lot of things and

we will continue to do that. just for tonight, we will put that aside. the politics simply do not matter as much as the history of the day. a day we should never stop talking about. it day we should never stop reminding each other about, and we should remind each other when we were watching it unfold in real time, there was no doubt in anyone's mind of what we were witnessing. that is not just me saying that. so many republicans at the time publicly condemn trump following the attack. mitch mcconnell said he was, quote, practically and morally responsible for what happened. kevin mccarthy said it was un- american and he could not be sadder and more disappointed with our country look. ever since, donald trump and his allies have tried to flip the memory of that day on its head. they tried to change it. you might not remember this but trump's first rally of the 2024 campaign was held in waco,

texas. the site of a deadly standoff between federal agents and a religious cult in 1993. that was not a coincidental choice. at the beginning of the same rally, trump put his hand over his heart is a rendition of the national anthem sung by a choir of rioters cleared over the speakers. that kicked off an effort to rewrite history that lasted the entire campaign. trump was referring to the insurrection as political prisoners, as hostages. as patriots, of all things. he vowed to pardon them if and when he returned to office and we were wondering which people he meant when he said that which he said repeatedly. did he mean david dempsey who prosecutors called political violence personified? who attacked officers with flagpoles, pepper spray, broken furniture and his hands and feet? did he mean daniel ball who

hurled an explosive device with police officers trying to defend them it. or did he mean thomas webster, police officer who tackled a member the capitol police, tact and with a flag pole, and tried to remove his helmet and gas mask. maybe he meant daniel rodriguez who drove a stun gun into the neck of officer michael fanone. trump's of those people are political prisoners and hostages and patriots. when he returns to office and two weeks, he may pardon each and every one of them. that's the tip of the whitewashing. trump is stacking his cabinet with election deniers. one of the architects of the plot to steal the election was reelected speaker of the house. some lawmakers are bringing insurrectionists as guests to the inauguration, and it's hard to imagine any of that would be happening without trump, the leader of the republican party, the president elect embracing the role of the people who attacked the capitol four

years ago. all that i outline, there's a natural inclination to feel off that the system failed in some way. i have done my own reflection over the last few years. i get it. i looked back at the months of january 6 as president biden was preparing to take office. as we were working to get judge merrick garland as attorney general. a man who has an unassailable resume and viewed the job as it should be viewed, through the prism of law and history. i do wonder if at that moment in history, he was the right choice for the job. the justice department has charged about 1500 people for their role that they. what about the guy who sparked it all? the guy hosting events of walking rent-free. would a different attorney general have acted sooner? would that have made a difference? we will never really know. i do wonder. i also look back

at the strategy of not speaking out about trump's impeachment from the white house podium. not speaking enough about the impact his rhetoric at on the rise in political violence, and wonder, whether that was the right strategy in that moment. it was done with the right intention. to attempt to bring the country together and move forward and to try to work together even with people you disagree with to get things done. i wonder if it gave space for people to forget. to get numb to the impact of one man's power and what could happen if he was given it again. those are my own personal reflections. look, we cannot predict the future just like none of us can change the past. we know history has a tendency to repeat which is why we have to keep the memories of the worst day alive and to reflect and question the choices we made along the way. it's why we have to change our

approach when warranted and keep defending the things that matter. even when politics might be -- because it's not always about politics. sometimes, it's just about what is right. today the sitting vice president of the u.s. certified the election of the man who defeated her. the man she repeatedly called, accurately, a threat to democracy. >> the votes for president of the united states are as follows. donald j. trump of the state of florida has received 312 votes. kamala harris -- [ applause ] kamala d. harris of the state of california has received 226 votes. [ applause ]

>> that must have felt, i mean, horrible. the peaceful transfer of power even after a hard-fought campaign is what keeps a democracy functioning. it is what is right. what we should never forget what happened four years ago, and we will talk about it tonight, we can do our part to make sure it never happens again. joining miss congressman jamie raskin who led the second impeachment trial of trump and served on the house select committee and he has continued to keep the memory of january 6 alive. raising all the important questions. there's no one more important that i want to talk to today. you are so reflective in moments people need to hear it. i outlined why think it's important to remember events of that day and what it's important to remember about it. as you reflected, what do you hope people remember? >> i hope people remember the valor and bravery of our officers like aquilino gonell who will visit with you and

harry dunn and hundreds of officers who put themselves between the capitol, congress, and vice president and a rampaging mob of thousands who was sent by donald trump to try to overturn a presidential election. those people were in the front lines. as long as we remember them and their sacrifice and injuries and the fact their lives and families have been turned upside down, it was a real event. they will not be able to shroud it in conspiracy theory and myths. but, when i was sitting there today, i was thinking of the electoral college. it's an 18th-century institution. it is creaky and given us five popular vote losers. twice in the century, george bush and donald trump in that altered the trajectory of our politics. it marginalizes the vast majority of american people. we have gotten condition to it

but it is strange to have an election it comes down to six or seven states and everybody else is watching what happens, pennsylvania, georgia, and arizona. why don't we have an election for president like the election for representative, senator, mayor. whoever gets the most votes wins. not a vice president in the race whether it's kamala harris or i think i remember al gore was in the same situation. counting the electoral college votes. people don't even understand it anymore. the republican colleagues were cheering and stomping their feet and acting like it was the republican national convention. our job was just to be counting the votes. people don't understand it. it is time for a refresh. it's a good opportunity to do it. trump is proud of the fact he won the popular vote by 3

million votes away joe biden was proud of the fact he won by 7 million votes four years ago. why don't we agree to have a popular vote for election and move away from a dangerous and manipulable electoral college system. >> hopefully, it's not always able to be manipulated but a lot of people share your view on the electoral college versus popular vote. let me ask about a clip, you reference this, the vice president certifying the election. usually normal par for the course. it feels hard to watch a bit in this moment given the role trump played four years ago. what was going through your head? >> it was a hard pill to swallow. we were on the floor. we are demonstrating our fidelity to the constitutional process as it is written. and we did the right thing. it was a bitter pill to swallow given four years ago, when they faced electoral defeat, by more

than 7 million votes in the popular vote, the republicans entered donald trump mobilized a violent insurrection to try to effectuate a backroom political coup against the vice president. they were trying to force mike pence to unilaterally declare the electoral college votes coming from michigan and wisconsin and georgia and arizona would be voided out and either trump would be declared the president or they would kick the thing into the house of representatives for a so-called contingent election under the 12th amendment where they knew we would be voting not on the member of one vote but one state, one vote. it's all part of the arcane intricate architecture the electoral college that most people have not studied. most people think you go and vote and whoever gets the most votes wins and that's not what takes place under the electoral

college. there are a lot of weaknesses in this process. i would think now that we have it two popular vote winners, one from each party back-to- back, we could all agree now is the time to move forward and to pick the president the way we pick everybody else on the basis of who gets the most votes. >> sounds very rational. let me ask you, to the point, we've been talking about rewriting history and the importance of fighting back against that, in today, the lawyer for enrique tarrio who is serving 22 years filed a request for a pardon. do you think trump will pardon him? >> look, the pardons have been used for three kinds of cases as far as i can tell from reading the decisions. one, if a person is innocent and new information turns up. two is if there is some kind of profound procedural miscarriage of justice. three is if the person was

guilty but they are rehabilitated. i don't hear anybody saying the people we see on all these video clips were actually innocent and nobody has identified any miscarriage of justice. i think trump is basically saying when he wants to pardon these people that they are rehabilitated, and they do not constitute a danger to the public safety today. is that true or not true? we should go through each one of these cases. that's why there is a pardon attorney at the department of justice. if trump does not want to wait for the attorney and the department of justice to go through the cases, he is placing his personal seal of approval, vouching for each of these people as he pardons them. it means he becomes responsible for whatever happens with them. have they been reformed? have they been rehabilitated?

donald trump should tell america why he thinks someone who smashes a police officer over the head with a stick or baseball bat or confederate battle flag belongs on the streets. are they no longer a danger to police officers? no longer a danger to federal, state, local government or law enforcement officials? who knows. that's why this is unprecedented and novel situation we are in. he is pardoning people he sent to the capitol to fight and fight like hell where we wouldn't have a country anymore. politically, i understand the logic of why he would do it, but legally and morally? i don't understand the logic unless he is willing to vouch for each of these people. >> i suspect he won't be but this will be interesting to watch. we have to sneak in a quick break. when we come back, former capitol police sergeant gonell will join us at the table . we

are back in 60 seconds. n 60 se

even though there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary including hours videos of photographic coverage, there is a shocking intent to ignore or try to destroy the truth of what truly happened that day. january 6, for the first time, i was more afraid to work at the capitol than my entire employment to a rack. what we were subjected to was something from -- we fought hand to hand, inch by inch, to prevent innovation of the capitol by a violent mom attempting to subvert the democratic process. >> that was former capitol police sergeant gonell testifying to the january 6 committee six months after the

attack on the capitol. now, four years after this, he remains committed to speaking out. in an incredibly powerful piece for "the new york times" he writes, quote, i remain haunted by that day. now mr. trump's promised actions could erase the justice we've risked everything for. joining me as sergeant gonell and congressman jamie raskin is still with us. i opened by talking a bit about how today feels like a moment of reflection and talking about what really happened and reminding people of the history. as people reflect on it and you reflect, what you hope people understand about that date ? >> i hope the american people remember what had transpired was not a simple day. it was not a day full of love because if it was, they almost loved me to death. they were attacking me inside the tunnel. attacking me outside the tunnel when we tried to hold the police line. for me, four years later,

walking up here, it reminds me of january 6 and the aftermath when we had the fences up coming here. a fortified capitol were nowhere in our history had that happen before. it was challenging that day. it is challenging today especially knowing that donald trump wants to pardon the violent criminals that assaulted us on january 6. >> in your bed, you talk about how the fear of some of these individuals being pardon. we were talking about this with the congressman. trump could pardon some of the more violent insurrection is who participated that day. is that something you fear personally? >> i fear it will normalize that type of behavior. while they tried to say it's okay to attack the political system, it's okay to try to

overthrow a government after the will of the people had been manifested. not so much about self fear because what are they going to do to me or my family? we did what we -- i did my job and fulfilled my oath. if they have an issue with me doing my job, then they do not stand with the constitution. they do not stand for democracy like they prophecies. >> i feel political violence has been normalized. not that it's in the process of being. congressman, do you feel fearful? for yourself, your colleagues with the potential for these insurrectionists to be pardon? >> to your point, political violence has been normalized as a way of doing maga business. we talk about january 6 and we don't talk about june 1, 2020, but that was the day when trump and attorney general william

barr assembled a paramilitary police makeshift unit under the direct control of the president and attorney general, and they unleashed violence on peaceful black lives matter protesters in lafayette square. so trump could make his trek over to the saint stephen's episcopal church where he lifted somebody else's bible over his head upside down and made whatever statements he wanted to make, violated the separation of church and state. they were showing they were willing to mobilize government violence against peaceful protesters. january 6, they were willing to mobilize proud boys and right wing white nationalist paramilitary violence against the government, whatever they needed to get in power and assault their opponents. that is ruined philosophy. we will rule everybody and everything or we will ruin and

tear down the possibility of government taking place for others. that's a dangerous philosophy. we have to demand the republicans renounce that philosophy. they have to embrace constitutional government which means sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. it cannot be heads we win can when we win, you respect that. but tails you lose are tails we lose, that if they lose an election, then they will try to tear down the system of government and that's where we are now. that explains the frustration of democrats today. would they be actually accepting a peaceful transfer of power that they lost? >> that's an scary question. let me ask you, one of the things i would say is positive about an anniversary today of

which there are not many is we can highlight the bravery of people like yourself and others who were in the capitol police and some who are still today. there as part of the legislation passed that is both money for families who have lost loved ones and also for mental health services. are you and others getting the support and funding that you need? and i think you deserve? >> some of the problems we have received but one legislation that was passed in the aftermath was the department of justice. they have a program called public safety officer benefit program. that to my knowledge, officers who died by suicide family have been awarded that benefit. however, that law was updated to include physical and mental health injury. to this day, the department of justice has not approved any single living officers claim which i think is ridiculous.

many of the officers who are working at the capitol today are still traumatized. many of the same ones attacked on january 6 going to be protecting donald trump in a couple of weeks. the irony of that that he had not even acknowledged or apologized to that says a lot. the benefit itself no single officer, living officer, has been awarded that and the person running the program is political appointee left over which obviously he does not believe in january 6 and did nothing wrong happened and to me, it's outrage that happen. >> that is outrageous and everyone should dig into that. thank you both so much. thank you for being here and for everything you did on january 6. and before that as well. thank you as always for shedding light and helping us moments in history. you might remember this image from four years ago. i certainly do.

it shows andy kim cleaning up the capitol one day after the insurrection and it stuck with me. andy kim is a u.s. senator and he is standing by and he joins us next. ns us next.

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get the 5-year price lock guarantee, now back for a limited time. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities™. lots of people first learn the name andy kim on january 7, 2021, when an image of the congressman kneeling on the capitol of the rotunda picking up debris after the january 6th attack went viral.

there were so many of us and that image felt extraordinary. a moment of quiet dignity after one of the darkest days in the history of our country. for andy kim, it felt like the right thing to do. >> i didn't want the sunrise over the next morning on a broken congress and a capitol that was left in that type of condition. after i finished, i went to some of the other rooms and walked all over the capitol and try to do as much as i could to get the building to the place it deserves to be. >> andy kim has become a u.s. senator from new jersey and he joins we now. it's great to see you. i can call you senator now. before i had to call you senator elect. i love those photos of you. you walked around the capitol this morning and posted photos, how of you been reflecting on the anniversary? >> you know, it was a profound

feeling going around the capitol today and trying to reflect on what happened four years ago. one thing that was powerful was walking around and i came across a huddle of capitol police officers. >> this morning? >> this morning and they were reflecting and telling their story about where they were. one was outside fighting the mob there. others were inside. it's one of those things where we as a country, regardless of your political affiliation, can we not agree we should not be defiling and disgracing such a secret building? this understanding that i saw four years ago with my own eyes americans fighting other americans inside the u.s. capitol. i will never unseat that. it is something that despite our political differences, we can agree in the same way we

hold our hand over our heart when we do the "pledge of allegiance" and the national anthem, it should be part of what it means to be american. >> one of the other images that was striking today and i talked already, was the vice president certifying the outcome of her own two feet, essentially. which is something that has happened in the past. al gore did that, nixon did they have. what was that like to watch? >> i will sing this earlier, in some ways today, showed january 6 was an unremarkable day to americans. it's -- for us to go through this business today. i hope americans can see this is how it should be for ever, as long as our democracy is here that january 6 should be that type of process. as you point out, there was something different about this and that was seeing vice

president kamala harris overseeing this. i think what i took away is its representative of the peaceful transfer of power. which we failed as a nation to accomplish four years ago. i say that as someone who worked in diplomacy and i've been in failed countries around the world where they do not have that capacity. yes, i want january 6 to be unremarkable but in some ways it's because we take democracy for granite. we think the peaceful transfer of power is unremarkable because we assume we do it. after four years ago, something was different this time for me to be in the chamber and see the vice president take on this role with such dignity and recognize we work jobs whose job descriptions are in the constitution of the united states and that should be a humbling experience. >> there have been committee

assignments. you are on a lot of committees. one of them is homeland security which is not surprising because you are a national security nerd and i say that in the most complementary way. you will be serving in that committee enough time that's a little scary in the country. we had the attack in new orleans, homegrown extremism seems to be part of the motivation of the attacker. you come from a background of national security of understanding these issues. what do you see your role as on the committee and what questions do you want to ask when you have committee meetings and start to take on a role there? >> i will be honest. i never thought i would be in politics are getting involved in government. i was a sophomore when september 11 happened so the path led me to this moment and it came out of a terrorist attack and a desire to keep my country safe. a lot of that i did abroad, but i take this seriously. what i would like to do is

restore the sounds when it comes to securing the country, having worked, both of us in the situation room, the last place partisan politics belongs is in the situation room. we need to get back to our national security is not partisanship. we recognize i want to keep the country say. i have two little boys and i'm worried about what kind american world there growing up. it's turbulent and scary. we had a young man from new jersey killed in the war lands. i feel for his family. the fear, why do you have to fear about your kids life when they are celebrating new year's? i hope i can play a role and restore that sense that this is something we should be able to come together on in that capacity. what we have seen is the weaponization, politicization of our national security. if that continues, we are in a

dangerous trajectory as a nation. >> we will see if kristi noem gets confirmed how that goes. thank you so much for joining me. kamala harris is in the first sitting vice president to certify their own two feet. as senator kim said, this one feels different. feels different.

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we have been talking about this a little bit but today marked just the fourth time in american history that a sitting vice president has certified their own defeat. it's kind of an ironic twist of fate that after suffering a gut punch of losing the white house, each of them have had to stand before congress and technology painful truth they lost. state by state, they're asked to sign off on the exact details of their defeat. despite what personal admissions i had, four times, those vice presidents managed to stand by the principles of american democracy and abide by the constitution. after losing by a margin of only 537 votes in a single state under highly contested circumstances, al gore had to preside over the joint session that affirmed george w. bush's victory. in doing so, he repeatedly had to gavel down objections from

members of his own party who tried to stop him. richard dixon was never known for extending benefit of the doubt to his political adversaries but after losing a hard-fought race to john f. kennedy, he was able to swallow his pride and certify the results with a grace and humility that's too rare in american politics today. even when the country was on the brink of civil war in 1861, the certification went off without a hitch. the vice president would go on to join the confederacy just months after losing the presidency. and yet, even he still fulfilled his constitutional duty, declaring his opponent, abraham lincoln, had been elected. each of them did the honorable thing. under difficult and painful circumstances, but they put the good of the country about their personal feelings, and that's something that trump could not do four years ago today.

coming up, visitors are lining up to pay their final respects as former president jimmy carter eyes in repose inside his presidential library ahead of his state funeral. georgia senator raphael warnock is here to share his reflections on president carter's legacy. carter's legacy.

i promised you four years ago that i would never lie to you so i can't stand here tonight and say it does not hurt. [ applause ] spent there's an old yiddish proverb i thought of in the days and months i have held this office, it says simply, god gives burdens and also shoulders. all the days and months when i have served you and served this country, you have given me your shoulders, your faith, and your prayers. no man could ask any more of his friends.

>> that was a young president carter showing what it means to be gracious in defeat as he delivered his concession speech. on this particular day, that feels especially relevant. so much of his legacy as a reminder of what grace and dignity can should look like. that sentiment is on the minds of tens of thousands of people who have streamed in to pay their respects as he lies in repose at the carter center. tomorrow, his casket will be flown to washington where he will lie in state before the national funeral service on thursday. joining his democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia who shared a close relationship with former president jimmy carter. it is great to see you and i was reflecting today. i came to florida to spend the day with you year ago we went to the farm and religious leaders. one of the things i learned about you that i didn't know was your close relationship

with the former president and how much he impacted you. we have all been thinking about him. he is about to be in washington, his body in washington tomorrow, what do you hope people will remember about his legacy? >> what an extraordinary human being. he occupied the oval office but let's stop there. jimmy carter was an extraordinary human being and humanitarian. he was a patriot in the best sense of the word. someone who demonstrates, i think as good as anyone i can think of in modern times, what it means to make your faith come alive in public service. he did that in office and when he left office because he understood leadership is not about an office but orientation. he never lost that commitment and kept finding ways to get in with another great georgia congressman john lewis called good trouble. >> making faith come alive in

your service is something not everybody is comfortable with. i don't know if you struggled with that are figured out how to do that as you ran for office. did he give you advice? he was a deeply religious man and you are deeply religious. were you thinking how to navigate that? >> it is an important question, particularly at this moment, i have to admit that we often the voice of faith in america today , the loudest voices are mean- spirited voices, divisive voices. often harboring, seems to me, politics of resentment against the people for whom jesus said i came to preach good news. jesus, the poor, and so did jimmy carter. he read scripture. he was a christian as am i. he demonstrates that you can be clear about your particular faith identity without being

oppressive towards folks who have other faith, traditions or come from no particular faith tradition at all. that's the covenant we have with one another as the american people. jimmy carter embodied it so well and he was a great missionary, if you will, for the best of the american spirit as he fought for democracies across the world. worked to eradicate diseases, almost single-handedly. got rid of the guinea worm and change the lives of people all over the world. we are saying farewell but in a sense, he is for the ages. his legacy shall never die. >> one of the pictures we showed is the carter sitting in a pew while you are preaching. you don't strike me as a guy who gets nervous much, but did you get nervous when the former president and his wife were sitting there? >> i had gotten to know him a

little prior to that, and we talked a little before the service. in some ways it was comforting to have a man there who so clearly embodied the work. in some ways having jimmy carter there made the service easier because people would rather see a sermon than hear one. i don't remember what i talked about that morning, buddy demonstrated the truth of our gospel. centering love, and peace. >> i played before we started talking, the concession speech. we played earlier the sitting vice president confirming, certifying the outcome of the election. there is a lot of grace shown in those moments. it's hard for people to watch. who voted a different way i should say. as you talk to members of your congregation about this moment and what we are about to face, what do you tell them about how to stand up for their moral

beliefs but still find grace in this moment? >> we have to. it's a covenant we have with one another as american people. four years ago i was sitting at home in atlanta. i just won my election, and that celebration was short-lived because we saw a violent assault on the capitol unlike anything we've seen since the war of 1812. the assault on our democracy metastasized and voter suppression bills all across our country. as i think about jimmy carter fighting within the democratic traditions of our own country, but then trying to help other struggling democracies all over the world because he understood and believed, as i do, that in a sense democracy is the political enactment of a spiritual idea. this notion each of us has within ourselves, a spark of the divine. we ought to have a voice in the direction of the country and

our destiny within it. he took that message all over the world, trying to help folks trying to stand up in democracies because he believed in human dignity. it is important that in this moment, on this dreadful anniversary, that in every other case except four years ago, we witnessed in many ways the most uneventful -- >> boring almost. >> it was boring today as it ought to be and god help us to get back to that spirit. >> senator, i feel you embody so much of embracing her faith and helping people understand they can do that and still have political values. it's always a pleasure talking to you. thank you for speaking with us about jimmy carter. about jimmy carter.

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our democracy. otherwise, it is very fragile, and it will not be able to withstand moments of crisis. and today america's democracy stood. >> america's democracy is only as strong as our willingness to fight for it. amen to that. the rachel maddow show starts right now. hey, rachel. happy new year. >> hey, jen, happy new year to you as well. thank you so much. today america's democracy stood. when she got to that moment in her remarks i felt moved and also a little shaky about the assertion given where we have been, but i'm really glad you played that. >> both is how we're all feeling. you're stating what we're all feeling as per usual. >> emotional and shaky, that's pretty much my tattoo at this point. thank you, jen, much appreciated. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. i'm really happy to vow you here. glad you're