that's 85% of the population. and in every election in this century, the democrat has won a landslide in the 17 blue states and a republican has won a landslide in the 25 red states. it's two different nations. they are winning big majorities only and half the country, and i think that's part of the illusion of these close national elections is there are very few places anymore where elections are close. it's just the aggregate of the country. >> michael pot hurts her, the piece is in his sub stack. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts now. good evening, alex. >> hard to imagine any politician, anything gaining a majority of support or interest or anything.alex. >> it's increasingly hard to imagine -- set aside a politician. anything gaining a majority of support or interest or

anything. just feels like everything is divided. >> just like a huge ratification of being a bunch of people coming out and being like this rocks. let's keep doing this. totally inconceivable. we're turning to the greater los angeles area where firefighters are fighting five wildfires at once. collectively the fires have burned more than 25,000 acres in just the past 36 hours. completely destroying at least 1000 buildings. just before we got on air tonight, officials announced two schools have been completely destroyed by these fires. officials also announced that all schools in the los angeles unified school district which is the second biggest school district in the united states, that they will be closed tomorrow because of the crisis playing out in los angeles. these fires are all happening in relatively dense, urban areas and they have forced more than 100,000 residents to

evacuate their homes. to cut off power for hundreds of thousands of customers and they have left at least five people dead. to understand how these fires got so bad, experts are pointing to wind and water. in cold months, california faces a unique topographical threat. that's the santa ana winds. high pressure pockets of air from it dry desert regions in the east race down the mountains toward lower pressure pockets of air by the coast. the west. that air gets faster and warmer as it literally races down hill which is how the wind has created gusts of up to 100 miles per hour around these fires. now these santa ana winds are abnormally strong. the strongest in more than a decade. experts do not think they alone would have caused fires this destructive. those hurricane-force winds were made extra dangerous by the rain and the lack thereof

in southern california over the past few years. 2022 and 2023 were some of the wettest rainy seasons ever recorded in southern california. but in the past eight months a lot of the region has seen less than a quarter inch of rain. and that comes after a summer of record-breaking heat. now all of that means that the vegetation of southern california, the trees and the bushes and the grass, all of that spent years growing, especially in those wet years, only to spend the past eight months drying out. and then becoming giant piles of fuel for these fires. now normally los angeles would start seeing rain in the month of november which would lower the fire risk, but it did not this year. and that confluence of factors, the abnormally strong winds and the abundance of dry, fire- prone vegetation. both of those factors are likely getting worse because of

climate change. those factors are what experts are saying made these fires so bad. as to why these fires have been so hard to put out, officials are also pointing to wind and water. overnight last night the winds were so strong that all fire fighting aircraft were grounded. without air support to do water drops, firefighters on the ground were stuck fighting those flames alone. not only did that mean that firefighters had to fight four major fires across different corners of the region, but it also meant strong winds picked up embers, sending them miles from the main fires themselves and creating small spot fires in what's being called ember casting. even with 9000 firefighters in los angeles county, that meant personnel was spread incredibly thin. here with l.a. county fire chief anthony marrone earlier today. >> there are not enough firefighters in l.a. county to address four separate

fires of this magnitude. we're doing the very best we can. but know we don't have enough fire personnel in l.a. county between all of the departments to handle this. >> to make matters worse, water for firefighters hoses was in short supply. l.a.'s hydrant system primarily relies on three large water tanks. each one holding around a million gallons. by 3:00 a.m. last night they had all run dry. 15 hours of fighting multiple major fires at once had depleted the tanks faster than they could be refilled. now tonight thankfully the winds have calmed down enough for fire fighting aircraft to once again provide air support. additional firefighters are also on their way coming from all across california, as well as arizona and they are expected as early as tonight. and president biden has now signed a major disaster declaration which will clear the way for federal funds and resources to help fight these

fires. but officials warn that los angeles is not out of the woods yet. the national weather service is cautioning although the winds will continue to die down throughout tonight, another round of powerful santa ana winds could pick up again as early as tomorrow afternoon. officials also warn that despite what is now nearly 36 hours of continuous fire fighting from l.a.'s 9000 firefighters, four of the five major fires are still at zero percent containment and could continue to spread. evacuation zones around these fires have expanded multiple times in the past 24 hours and officials ask that anyone near the fires keep up to date on all evacuation orders and warnings. that they pack a go bag, make an evacuation plan and leave immediately when ordered to do so. we go now to nbc news correspondent morgan chesky who is live in altadena,

california. what can you tell me about the status of the fire? >> reporter: the status is heart breaking in every direction you look. we're here in altadena. i see nothing but fire trucks. we have another one passing me. i'm standing across the street from a junior high that will likely be a total loss as a result of this eaton fire. this time yesterday i remember seeing the notification it was about 400 acres. it is hard to fathom how this time tonight we are looking at a blaze that's now 10,000 acres and responsible for claiming at least five lives. and i think what's most important to say is that it is still very much actively burning and around the hills of this area. we've had a chance to report on some of the fire fight andget / http/1.0 host: 127.0.0.1 user- agent: mozilla/5.0 (linux; u; android 4.0.3; ko-kr; lg-l160l build/iml74k) applewebkit/534.30 (khtml, like gecko) version/4.0 mobile safari/534.30 connection: close alex, you mentioned it. i want to reinforce this fact for everyone listening and everyone watching tonight. that is when we saw an apartment building engulfed in flames, i saw the fire engine pull up this afternoon, a fire captain have one of his

firefighters attach a hose to a hydrant and that hose didn't fill up, alex. i asked the captain, out of every ten hydrants you attach to today on average how many are you getting full water from he says little to none. at that point really the whole crew stopped, looked up at this apartment building and they realized there was nothing they could do except try to spray what little water they had in their truck on an opposing building to keep it from heating up and igniting from a fire happening next door. i didn't just hear it from that fire captain. i heard it elsewhere. that is certainly going to be one of the aspects of this fire fight that's going to be focused on in the days, weeks and months ahead. because i don't know that i've ever covered a fire and seen so many firefighters and so many fire trucks and so little water being used on one blaze after another. and just to reinforce the scale of this tragedy. this generational disaster happening here in southern california. a gentleman pulled up in his

car with his wife while we were watching that same apartment building burn. he wanted to check on his mother's home which was next door. he was relieved to see it was still standing, but when he realized there was no water you could just see him become crest fallen in an instant. i asked him, have you been personally impacted by this elsewhere. between myself and my wife, we have five family members who have lost homes as a result of this fire. a fire that is one of four, perhaps five burning in this area, alex that's still burning at this hour and it'll be burning this time tomorrow. >> that is just a catastrophic situation, morgan. you know, the image. firefighters with hoses run dry is a terror. i wonder if the fact that fire fighting aircraft is back in the skies whether that's mitigating this at all. what you can tell us about other methods by which they're trying to extinguish these

blazes. >> reporter: we have seen some aircraft return to the skies. winds have died down somewhat. there is a hope that they can make some progress. although i should add that there's only a limited amount of fire fighting that aircraft can do under the cover of darkness. we know some helicopters are specially equipped with infrared, but those massive planes that we see during the day, they typically don't operate at night. if there is any solace here whatsoever, it's that these winds have somewhat died down and crews can perhaps position themselves in more defensive areas. some of these spot fires pop up. but alex, you walk up and down this main thoroughfare in altadena just in a few minutes time you'll meet someone, if they have not personally lost a home, who have lost a business, may have lost both. alex. >> morgan, you're doing some

essential reporting there. this is just an unfathomable level of destruction. thank you for that, morgan. stay safe. i want to note that a brush fire has broken out in the hollywood hills area of los angeles near runyon canyon. that's according to the city's fire chief who said that at a news conference. a mandatory evacuation order has been issued for that area. we'll get more on all of this as we talk with a meteorologist with the national weather service in los angeles. dr. cohen, i'm really -- i think a lot of people have so many questions about the magnitude. the scope of this fire. these fires. the first thing that strikes me as unusual are the winds. and how fierce they are. can you talk a little bit about how unusual these santa ana winds are in terms of velocity and their on going status.

>> we've had some of the most historic combinations of powerful winds. destructive, life-threatening wind storm that combined with very dry conditions and a tremendous amount of fuel, vegetation for the fires to burn through from all the precipitation we got in the past couple of years it turned off. the fuel's dried out and it's led to these very catastrophic circumstances across southern california. >> do you -- i mean, as we talk about the circumstances; right? there were two years of almost deluge in 2022 and 2023. really wet seasons in california. this year has been incredibly dry. the feast or famine aspect of all of this, how unusual is that that you would have these really wet seasons and really dry seasons that basically dried out all the vegetation that sprang up in the previous two years. >> it's certainly not common. what we've seen over the past

24 hours are apocalyptic scenes. there's no other way to put it. that's something that really is a once in a life time or even much longer outcome. the main message here is that everyone needs to remain at a high state of readiness. have multiple ways to receive emergency information from law enforcement. emergency management officials and when the evacuation orders come, you must take those seriously and evacuate. your life depends on it. >> it feels like the destruction is increasing at a ferocious clip. and i wonder what you can tell us about the forecast ahead. we know the winds are dying down now, but they are expected to strike back up again tomorrow. is that right? >> we're seeing the strongest winds now having passed. talking about wind gusts over

the san gabriels and santa monica mountains. pushing 80 to 100 miles per hour reported during the overnight hours last night. while those winds are weakening considerably compared to where they were, they will remain strong on the order of 50 to 70 miles per hour over the mountains. some of the nearby valley locations across the southbound fernando, santa monicas and also to the malibu coast vicinity. so we're still going to have a tremendous amount of potential for fires to spread rapidly. to spot and cause new fires to form ahead of them with explosive fire growth. we have red flag warnings remaining in effect which indicate that the volatile combination of parameters continues to remain there for fires to grow rapidly. everyone needs to stay vigilant. don't go to bed without having multiple ways of receiving

emergency information. >> dr. ariel cohen. it is quite a time to be looking at these images in los angeles with -- >> our hearts go out to everyone. i want to say on behalf of the national weather service, you know, these are our communities. these are our people. it is so heart breaking to see all of the devastation that's occurred and i just want to make sure everyone knows that we are here for them. we work very closely with emergency management, fire agencies, law enforcement. so that we have a community response to have people be prepared and respond to these disasters. our deepest sympathies and heart go out to everyone who has been affected. >> thank you so much for your time. everybody, heed those warnings. we will be monitoring the situation throughout the hour.

a new report on what donald trump did just hours before asking the supreme court for a really big favor. here's a hint. it involves justice samuel alito. but first those deadly fires continue to rage in los angeles county and the full scope of devastation is still unknown. but our incoming president is already playing the blame game. the breaking news coverage continues right after this break. legal protection against trackers, malicious websites and malware ridden downloads. get the deal now. >> do not buy generic viagra until you check out this

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the fundamental force that unites us is not that is both our history and our destiny. the fundamental force that unites us is not kinship or place of origin or religious preference, the love of liberty is a common blood that flows in our american veins.

our american veins. it's impossible for me to express the level of appreciation and cooperation we've received from the white house and this administration. so on behalf all of us, mr. president, thank you for being here. not just being here today. thank you for being here since the minute of this incident. >> that was california governor gavin newsom with president biden today. that was happening as wildfires continued to blaze through southern california. as the governor receives support from the outgoing president, the incoming president is throwing barbs. today president-elect trump attacked governor newsom writing governor gavin newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration that would have allowed millions of gallons of water from excess rain and snow melt from the north to snow daily into parts of california. he is the blame for this.

governor newsom's office responded with there is no such document as the water restoration declaration. that is pure fiction. governor newsom responded. >> people are literally fleeing. people have lost their lives. kids have lost their schools. families completely torn asunder. churches burned down. this guy wanted to politicize it. i know what i want to say. i won't. i stood next to the president of the united states of america today and i was proud to be with joe biden and he had the backs of every single person in this community. didn't try to divide any of us. >> joining me now is an msnbc contributor and columnist at the atlantic. first of all, what's your reaction to this situation as we go through these horrifying images of destruction and despair. a major american city being laid waste by these unmanageable fires.

this is the incoming president's reaction. >> i mean it's a catastrophe of global magnitude. just a huge tragedy. hard to get your head around. there will be a time to go assess responsibility, to ask questions about why are the firefighters not getting water. but this is not that moment. people may think this is normal. there once was a time actually that i'm old enough to remember when a disaster like this would bring out the best in americans. when we would pull together. we'd say let's put partisan politics aside for the moment and let's assure the people of southern california that this country has their back. we are united. we will do whatever it takes. donald trump does not have that instinct. he just won the presidency. he is about to assume the presidency. and yet his first instinct is to lash out. is to make up declarations that

didn't exist. to use juvenile nicknames for the governor of california. i guess the juxtaposition of the seriousness of the tragedy and the unseriousness and the demagoguery of donald trump should be breathtaking except we've seen this. for anyone thinks he's been sobered by his return to power or that he will grow into office. this is his first instinct is to lash out and to score points and to see this through the crudest political lens. this is who donald trump is. i suppose we shouldn't be surprised. the problem is is how will this translate into his presidency. how will this translate into the way the federal government deals with these disasters in the future. we've had some troubling indications from the past. >> i also think the rhetoric increasingly frays the ties that bind us together as a

nation to pit americans against each other like this. i do think it bears some fact checking here. number one, part of the reason firefighters don't have water is because they're all tapping the same lines at the same time to fight monstrously large fires and the water pressure goes down. and then number two, this is from the national resources defense council. for donald trump to tie water management from the bay delta area into devastating wildfires that have cost peoples lives and homes is nothing short of irresponsible and it is happening precisely at a time when the metropolitan water district has the most water stored in its system in the history of the agency. it is not a matter of having enough water coming from northern california to put out a fire. it's about the continued devastating impacts of a changing climate. i mean we just spoke with a meteorologist. we are talking about climate extremes. weather extremes. years of deluge. years of drought. vegetation grows and gets bone

dry and winds that are increased by climate change all of those factors coming together converging on the city of los angeles. that's what's happening now. >> yeah. >> to ask for donald trump to lead -- first of all to lead on this, but also to diagnose a problem that is here now on our doorstep which is the climate problem we face as a country, as a globe seems like an impossibility. >> and also is it too much to ask he not lie about this at this particular moment? this rhetoric frays the ties. i guess one of the questions we have to ask is how does it help? is he contributing to the solution? is his rhetoric going to make it more likely that los angeles survives? that lives are saved? that houses are protected? that schools are able to be shielded. what does he accomplish by his rhetoric except to scratch the id of his grievances.

and we've had reports from his first term that he considered not giving federal disaster aid to certain states because he didn't like the politics of their governor. this is the real danger. will he -- we know how vindictive he is. at this moment of maximum tragedy and danger, if he cannot restrain himself, what can we expect when he gets back into office. there's going to be a massive rebuilding. there will be more disasters like this. how will donald trump respond? will he try to take it out on his political opponents? will he see everything through the lens of his own ego and his resentments? this becomes more than just simply, you know, mean tweets. this raises questions about will he be the president of all americans and a president who wants to solve problems and protect the american people as opposed to scoring these kinds of petty points. >> yeah, i think this is where

it tips from just rhetoric and nastiness and, you know, donald trump's bad behavior into a real issue in terms of americans getting the help they need. you mention what happened in his first term. he was actually going to withhold aid from california after the 2018 wildfires until his aides showed him that there were parts of orange county, california that supported trump and because of that he relented. i mean and that happened in puerto rico after hurricane maria. he delayed aid to washington state which was run by a democrat for four months. he told the governors of connecticut and maryland that they should ask nicely for their disaster aid. they were not trump ago lites. they delayed disaster aid to the state of georgia by 55 days because he was mad at governor kemp for certifying the election in favor of joe biden. he delayed aid to utah. this is what he did in the first term. and i wonder, you know, what you think of the road ahead for a man as he comes in probably

even more emboldened in the second term to punish his quote unquote enemies and what that means in a moment like this where he's looking at the same images we are and this is his response. >> you know, alex, that list you just read is breathtaking. and we ought to remember that. i guess one of the differences with trump 2.0 is that there were apparently some grown ups or responsible individuals in the room during his first term we're told. you shouldn't do this or figured out a way to make him relent. will they be there in this next term? this is what i think is the scary part. the people he surrounded himself with now are the ones who i think are going to reinforce many of his worst instincts. are not going to tell him you cannot take out your resentment against governor newsom, you

can't take out that political resentment on the american citizens. on the american people who have been impacted by this. is stephen miller going to be telling him things like that? will the maga ago lites that he stacked his administration with will they appeal to the better angel of his nature? the fact is we know what his instincts are. we saw it in his first term. he was dissuaded from the worst most damaging things. it's not clear that will happen again this next time. to your point, he is seeing these images. if these images do not sober you. if these images don't make you cry out in thinking these are our fellow americans. these are fellow human beings. this is a catastrophe. this is a tragedy. if you don't have that instinct, i think it's tremendously troubling commentary on the man who is about to become president of the united states. >> we know from governor newsom

how essential white house support is in critical moments like these. we look towards january 20th to see what's next. charlie sykes, columnist at the atlantic, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. still to come this evening, donald trump throws a hail mary to the supreme court to try to get out of his impending criminal sentencing. i'm going to talk about it with legal experts lisa rubin and mark joseph stern coming up next. ming up next. $500 compared to disposables wherever gives me the confidence to never worry about small leaks or drips that accumulate. the secret is wherever's triple woven blend, which traps liquid and creates a protective barrier against wetness. >> they feel great and no one needs to know what you're

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he is throwing a hail mary in the direction fdonald trump's sentencing in the new york hush money case is two days away. he's throwing a hail mary in the direction of the u.s. supreme court. trump's lawyers filed an emergency appeal this morning arguing the justices should block trump's sentencing because he is protected by the court's ruling on presidential immunity. keep in mind they have been nominated to take top positions in trump's incoming justice department and if confirmed they will go from fighting the law on trump's behalf to enforcing it. today justice sonia sotomayor told new york prosecutors to respond to trump's request by 10:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. as the court signals an interest in trump's appeal, abc news is reporting and nbc has confirmed that justice samuel alito spoke with donald trump by phone on tuesday in a call

initiated by trump to recommend one of alito's former law clerks for a job in the incoming trump administration. justice alito said we did not discuss the emergency application he filed today and indeed i was not even aware at the time of our conversation that such an application would be filed. joining me now are lisa rubin and mark joseph stern. thank you for being here. because it's samuel alito i first need your reaction to, you know, just a friendly phone call between buddies. didn't talk about any of the matters before the court. sam alito, donald trump. your thoughts. >> i think there is a zero percent chance that sam alito is telling the truth when he says he did not know that this emergency application would be filed. trump and his legal team have made it very clear that they would go to the united states supreme court to block this sentencing if necessary. alito reads the news. he doesn't live in a hole.

and so i think that he was well aware when he got this phone call that it would look at a minimum really bad that it would raise a lot of questions about what exactly he discussed with the president-elect. yet he still decided to have the conversation. and to do so about someone who is going to be apparently a low level appointee in this administration. we're not talking about an appeals court judge or a potential attorney general. we're talking about someone who might be general counsel at a federal agency. the idea that trump needed alito to vouch for him and needed him to do so at this moment because it was so urgent. it really does not pass the sniff test and it suggests to me that something else was going on here. >> also, maybe that sam alito doesn't care. this is someone who has basically said middle finger to the optics of me being partisan whether it's my wife raising an insurrectionist flag above our

houses or taking a call . alvin bragg, prosecutors, got to get your filing to me tomorrow morning signals the court is going to take this up? >> i think that it is very likely that we'll hear from the court before friday. but it doesn't necessarily mean alex, that we'll have the outcome that trump would like it to have. i think this is justice sotomayor trying to make sure in the interest of fairness they have an opportunity to have full briefing and that they can make a decision, not that they will, but that they could make a decision prior to friday with ample time to do so. >> how do you read the tea leaves on this in terms of the court? we'll get into trump's legal argument in a second. this is based on the presidential immunity ruling handed down by this very conservative supreme court. >> i think there's a very good chance the supreme court will step in and halt the sentencing and run interference for donald trump yet again and claim that judge merchan in new york somehow allowed for

illegitimate testimony regarding trump's official acts. i don't like this prediction. i think this should be laughed out of court. this court has a track record of twisting, contorting the law to help trump whenever it needs to. i think the fact the court is acting very quickly making sure it can get all of the filing in before friday means there is a real chance that they will step in and say the sentencing cannot happen. >> can you talk about trump's argument. i know mark is not a fan of it holding water with the court. but trump's lawyers are contending presidential immunity extends to president- elects and being a convicted felon is not a good thing to be when you're trying to carry out presidential duties. it's not great to be a convicted felon in america and a lot of convicted felons can tell you how much of a mark that is against you even after you served your time. is there some weight to that argument at all? >> that it would be some problem to him to have this conviction on his record?

look, i don't think it animates any of the concerns that the court was thinking about when it issued that presidential immunity ruling. what they were really concerned about was a, distraction in terms of the time it took away from the president. as well as that person being under short of the shadow of investigation and prosecution while they're conducting their job. simply being sentenced doesn't do that. in fact the fact this man had already been convicted by a jury of 34 felony counts didn't stop him from being elected with 312 electoral votes. the idea this is going to stigmatize him in some way that will be irreversible is also kind of laughable when he is going to be as of friday ten days away from his second inauguration. >> just for people, he was convicted of the felony but he's not a convicted felon until he is sentenced. there is some meaningful difference at least rhetorically between who donald trump is on thursday and who he is on friday after he's been sentenced. >> particularly given that judge merchan said i don't

intend to sentence him to any incarceration or any penalties whatsoever. he said in it writing his intent is to give him an unconditional discharge. that's basically no penalty whatsoever. all it does is keep the conviction intact. the only reason donald trump should or without care about that is because it comes with a label. >> it's the name. it's the spin. it's the messaging. it's the pr. mark, the court waited so long to hand down the immunity ruling as to render jack smith's work moot. the department of justice work moot in some ways accountability moot. if they move in like 48 hours on this, i guess i wonder what you think the long term effects are in terms of public perception of this court. >> well the effects should be devastating for the court. unfortunately we just had an election where as lisa pointed out the american people saw fit to return trump to office and didn't seem to mind the court stepping in and running interference for him. i think the reality too here is

that the law has already been contorted to such an extreme degree that i don't know how much more damage scotus could even do to it. what we're seeing here is chief justice roberts immunity opinion working as it was intended to work. it is gunking up the justice system. it is a very confusing, imprecise, ambiguous opinion on purpose. chief justice roberts did not explain clearly the difference between an official act and an unofficial act. he really raised more questions than he answered. as the dissenters pointed out at the time and they were clearly correct, all this did was give trump ample fodder to delay, delay, delay and appeal every single adverse decision against him on the grounds that there might be some plausible argument that, you know, he could seize immunity and use it to prevent here a sentencing in the future more prosecution. who knows. so yeah, i think that the court's image is already pretty

tarnished. i'm not sure its decision making is breaking through as much to the american people as it should. i definitely think that intercepting sentence here when trump doesn't even face prison time would represent one of the more egregious extensions of that immunity decision that i could even contemplate. >> with justices like these who needs a separate and co-equal branch of government. lisa rubin, mark joseph stern. stick around. coming up, the president-elect is desperately trying to stop attorney general merrick garland from releasing jack smith's final report on his investigation into january 6th. will he be successful? that's next. be successful? that's next. good thing there's leaffilter. our patented filter technology keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. guaranteed. call 833- leaffilter to get started. and get the permanent gutter solution that ends clogs for good. they took the time to answer all of our questions. they really put us at ease. end clogged gutters for good. call 833.leaf.filter,

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so happy we selected empire (800) 588-2300. >> empire today, with 12 days to go until donald trump is inaugurated and he begins to clean house at the justice depa with 12 nt,days to go until donald trump is inaugurated and he begins to clean house at the justice department, the race is on to salvage what remains of special counsel jack smith's two criminal cases against trump. all that is left is the special counsel's two volume report outlining the investigation and charging of the 2020 election interference case against trump and the criminal case over trump's alleged mishandling of classified documents. today the special counsel's office revealed attorney general merrick garland is planning to release part of the report to the public. the volume about trump's alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election. the fate of even that much of the report now rests at the 11th circuit court of appeals. back with me now are msnbc

legal correspondent lisa rubin and mark joseph stern senior writer for slate magazine. why can't the attorney general just release this report? >> judge aileen cannon was the judge who had the mar-a-lago documents case. before she decided it was unconstitutional for a special counsel to have brought that case in the first place. she decided yesterday that she was going to temporarily enjoin the attorney general jack smith and anybody working with either one of them not only from releasing the final report and by that she didn't distinguish between the volumes. >> because they're all bundled together. >> final report. so even though she doesn't have jurisdiction technically over that portion of the report. >> january 6th, 2020. >> she enjoined the release of the report and said to them you can't even convey to people the contents or information of the report in any way beyond the department of justice. that means merrick garland can't release the report

without being in noncompliance with a court order. >> this now goes to the 11th circuit court of appeals, mark. before times that would have been seen as a very conservative court that might not do the bidding of someone who is basically running up against the incoming republican president. but has been sort of, you know, a bastion level headedness. what's your expectation here? >> i do not think the 11th circuit will back up judge cannon. i just want to clarify, judge cannon left ahead of the 11th circuit here. trump and his co-defendants filed these requests at the 11th circuit and with judge cannon at the same time. if the 11th circuit had wanted to block the release of this report or any part of it, it could have done so already. but it didn't. it chose not to. i think that's a good omen. it suggests the 11th circuit will not ultimately try to block any of this report. judge cannon wouldn't way.

she couldn't wait for the superior court which by the way has total jurisdiction over this case. judge cannon does not have jurisdiction. she couldn't wait for them to act so she said i'm going to step in and shield trump and his co-defendants from the release of any part of this report, including provisions that are all about the election subversion case that was tried or at least attempted to be tried in a dc court over which, again, she has no control. no authority. no jurisdiction. this is a great example of her acting entirely without authority and outside her lane. >> it's just par for the course with aileen cannon. she's made a number of these calls that have ultimately humiliated her. >> i don't know that aileen cannon sees it that way. i think she feels celebrated by the right. at the press conference he gave you sow that with trump going out of his way to praise her as a brilliant and brave jurist. aileen cannon while denigrated

in some places is elevated and praised in others. might not be necessarily on this network and this conversation. >> but i just mean the 11th circuit has slapped her down before in terms of bad rulings. >> absolutely. 11th circuit slapped her down twice during the investigative phase. she tried to appoint a special master to oversee the discovery and prevent the law enforcement agencies from making use of the things they seized from it mar- a-lago in the first place. it it was because of that that the indictment was delayed perhaps longer than it would have been even though this case was indicted in june of 2023. putting that aside, yes, aileen cannon is a judicial maximalist for all of the reasons that mark was outlining. grabbing authority and power she doesn't have to return what has now become a predictable result for donald trump. >> if the 11th circuit does rule in favor of the doj. if part of this report actually comes out, what import do you think it has? what weight do you think it will carry?

>> i think it will prove conclusively that jack smith was right to bring these charges. that merrick garland was right to appoint him and to back him up under serious political attack. and that there is a very credible case that trump committed serious crimes, particularly with regard to january 6th and attempting to overturn the election. jack smith still has his hands on a great deal of evidence that we probably have not seen. that we won't see until, if this report is released. if it is released. the public deserves to see that. i very much hope that frankly even if judge cannon still tries to suppress this report and keep it from the public that maybe joe biden and merrick garland decide that that immunity decision that the supreme court handed down it works for democratic presidents too. maybe joe biden needs to step in and ensure that the public sees this record of crime because otherwise trump is going to step in and wipe it off the books forever.

>> lisa rubin, mark joseph stern. thank you for your time and wisdom. appreciate you. coming up, we'll check again on the raging wildfires in los angeles. the latest from california is coming up next. coming up next. only $21 a month. go to selectquote. com now and get the insurance your family needs at a price you can afford. >> select quote we shop, you save. >> do you have an ugly, outdated, maybe even unsafe bath

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across los angeles county at least five people are dead and more than 100,000 are under mandatory evacuation orders as multiple wild fires continue to rage across the area. and breaking just in the last hour, there is a new and fast-moving fire that has started in the hollywood hills. right now it's being referred to as the sunset fire and the los angeles fire department has issued a mandatory evacuation for parts of that area. msnbc will, of course, continue to follow this very kinetic and destructive situation as we have more information throughout the evening. so please stay with our coverage. but as of now, that is our show for tonight. "hardball with chris matthews" with ali vitali is coming up next. ♪♪ moments for victims of the raging wild fires burning across southern california. the question is, will the extreme winds