there, you see them altogether and you see kamala harris and the second gentleman. earlier in the service we can tell you trump did something he has not done in public in a very long time, he shook hands with his former vice president, mike pence. again, that is of course the honorable thing to do at the funeral. those two men have been estranged ever since donald trump oversaw the attack on the capitol which included public calls to assassinate is vice president. president carter laid to rest tonight, in his hometown in plains, georgia. and that's where we and our broadcast honoring and saluting the former president.

residents under evacuation orders. at least five people are reported dead so far. officials said the number could rise. the santa ana winds, drought and climate change exacerbated the fires in california, creating dystopian seasons at iconic l.a. landmarks. the brush fire called the sunset fire broke out in the hollywood hits near utrunyon canyon wednesday evening spreading close to the famous walk of fame in the historic theaters on hollywood boulevard. thankfully, the sunset fire is now 100% contained. the multiple other fires are still active from the one that burned more than 17,000 acres as well as numerous homes, businesses and landmarks in pacific palisades and westward

along pacific coast highway towards malibu. as well as the eaton fire, which burned more than 10,000 acres and many structures in altadena and pasadena. here are satellite images showing before and after views of the neighborhoods ravaged this week.ow this is complete devastation, entire homes lost. neighborhoods decimated. tens of thousands displaced. and not just the celebrities. >> it's gone. it's gone. >> our worst fear happened. that's all right. we are survivors. we will get through it. we will build another home. we lost all our things. >> about five of my friends' house burned ofdown that live u the street. >> we know a lot of people from here. a lot of people that we know lost their homes. hard workers, get up at five in the morning, go to work.

most of the people weren't here when this happened. >> today president biden addressed the nation saying to southern oncalifornians help is coming. >> i am announcing the federal government had cover 100% of the cost for 180 days. this is going to pay for things like debris and hazard material removal, temporary shelters, first moresponders salaries, an all of the necessary measures to protect rylife and property. and, folks, i want to underscore, i told the governor and local officials spare no expense. we are with you. we are not going anywhere.sp >> msnbc's katy tur and jacob soboroff join me now from their hometown, pacific palisades. thank you both for being here. katy, we spoke to jacob yesterday. i want you to weigh in today. i know you guys grew up, you have known each other since you were 12, 13 years old and grew up in pacific palisades. talk a little bit about the community, what was lost, and

also what it's going to take for the community to come back. >> i knew jacob. i don't think he knew me. he was the heartthrob in town. >> we are not letting him say he is a heartthrob. let's dial it back. we are not going to let him do that. [ laughter ] >> you know, there is -- it's been really weird kto be here, joy, because, and i am sorry. we are just hearing helicopters and there is a crashing sound. >> there is house on fire. >> it's not a house.t' a tree is crumbling and it's lighting up a hot spot. all that area is decimated. above it is a house that has not yet burned down. right below it, joy, part of the reason this is so confusing and just hard to explain and hard to wrap your mind around it, right below that burning fire is a house i grew up in. i spent my high school years in that house. i lived in five houses this this town. uswe rented and moved a lot.

i visited them all today. they are all gone, all teof the. for me it's memories and, like, you know, scaffolding of memories and it's gone and how do ndyou deal with that. y i can't bring my kids here to show them my childhood and how i grew up. for thousands of others, including friends of ours -- >> yes. >> still living here, it's their lives today. it's their >>home. lto it's their parents' home. my phone is full of text messages from the people of my childhood saying, have you seen my house? >> did you go by my house? >> what's left of it? i got to tell you this very little good news. we have had a little bit of good news. your brother's house is okay. >> i would say, also, joy, the u.s. border service before we came on the air with you, it feels like help is here, you know? and the u.s. forest service drove by. can't tell you in my whole life in the palisades i saw the u.s. forest service and first responders vehicle driving through the streets. that's what dwe heard presiden

biden say, the u.s. forest service would be engaged in recoming to computers like this one. >> four of the six pure, zero percent contained. the palisades fire is zero sapercent contained.ze it's still threatening homes on the move. po pang a threatened. malibu decimated already. there are still evacuation orders.il the good news is that today, and maybe we will get toupdated numbers, maybe they have been able to contain it a little bit more. those numbers are coming -- there is a lag, obviously, because everyone is working hard and the cell service in the areas is impossible. so updates are hard to come by. but the good news, earlier today they were able to start their fdny and, you know, federal flights, their super scoopers and whatnot to try to douse a good portion, many acres of the

flames or just a hillside, try to stop the flames from continuing to swallow the fvegetation and continuing to threaten home. i atalked to a battalion chief earlier. he said he was hopeful during the daylight hours today they would be able to start to catch up with these fires. the issue, and jacob, i know you know about this as well, the winds, although calm right now, calmish, they are expected pick up again. of the winter weather was extended through tomorrow. they were worried about the hot spots like the one over, you know, through this valley and up on that ridge. the wind blows that fire, blows those embers up that hill a little bit and that house is gone. and then it starts eating more and more and more, gaining more strength. so even though it looks like there is nothing left to burn here, and maybe the threat is over, toit's not. it's still a very volatile situation. >> jacob, i remember looking at the scenes that look apocalyptic. it looks like an apocalypse. at the same time, we are hearing

lots tiof lies, disinformation, misinformation about who is to blame for the fire, about whether or not, you know, the fire yoservices were not allowe to use water. can you just do a little bit of debunking, because i know that, you know, in addition to being victims of this in your own community, you also know the facts of what we should know about this fire.im >> yeah, i saw, actually, joy, earlier today a gentleman, people outside l.a. might not know him, rick caruso, a developer in l.a. >> ran for mayor. >> ran for mayor against karen bass, the sitting mayor of l.a. propped up a big shopping center in town. and he was on local news the night the fire started talking about essentially making political claims why the fire got so out of control.ut and we talked to people locally today who have said that the

reason that the water may not have been at the pressure they wanted it to was because of w overuse. the tanks were full to the maximum kpas kpty. but when you or i at our own homes turn on the shower, malaysia the washing man machine at the lasame time, the water pressure goes down. that claim spread on social media by people including the people on x have led to a lot of confusion about what's going on. when you hear people ask, how could it get so out of control? this was an unprecedented situation and series of events. >> wind events. >> wincredibly dry. it had been incredibly dry.bl and wind gusts that were hurricane force that basically made this community and much of los angeles county right now, a tinderbox ready to go. it's as simple as that. >> by now usually, joy, december, january, it starts to rain in california. doesn't rain a ton. but it n starts to rain in california. there is one big rain event that soaks everything through. there hasn't been any rain this

year. a negligible amount of rain. they are not at drought levels but next to a drought level. you combine the no rain and then you combine the very dry vegetation out here and ten this you get the santa ana winds coming in, all it takes is one spark. one spark can light an entire, as we know, ridge on fire. it can light a community on fire, raze a community to the ground. the water pressure question is one that we heard as jacob was saying, that wasn't a tank issues. as he wsaid, you know, once yo start using the water at once and the city was using it all at once, the pressure goes down, you are not able to fit as competently. because the winds were so strong, they couldn't get the super scoopers in the air. so that put a real damper on what they were able to prevent and also how they were able to contain things. it was a perfect storm of bad events. of that being said, there will

be investigations or should be investigations into how they can do ntbetter and whether there we things anthat, you know, there were holes in their planning, whether there needs to be faster evacuation orders. folks i talked with her said that they got an evacuation order, looked out the window and realized i got to go and took nothing. so now they have the clothes on their back and they are looking for, you know, a new home. they are also -- it's not just a new home. they are looking for schools. a lot oft schools are greatly damaged around here am. there is no grocery stores. >> places of worship. >> the church that i grew up going to, did the bells and sang in the choir, gone. it's an entire community. so even if your house is standing, we have one right here standing among all these others, you are not coming book to all that much. >> yeah. it is devastating seeing this. we are so lucky to have the two of you.ou childhood friends turned

wonderful journalists. please stay safe and we want to keep talking to you. you are both america's heartthrobs as far as i am concerned. thank you both. >> thank you afor continuing t cover this, joy. thank you very much. and thank you to the people who are here working to save this community. it means a nglot to all of us. >> amen. amen. yes, come back anytime. and if any other developments happen, wave your hands in the air like you just don't care and we will come to you. katy tur, jacob soboroff, thank you. and coming up, let me bring it -- not coming up. nick, vice-chair of the altadena town council. thank you so much for being here. i know that you have also suffered devastating personal loss of your home as well. so we are so sorry to hear thate please talk about what's happening in your community. >> thank you, joy. i want to echo thank you for covering this.

altadena is a small community but we are mighty. we are so diverse. it's a beautiful town that everybody supports each other.yb so this is a, just an insane time to test those limits, right. and similar to what you have been hearing, very little notice. that's not faulting. it's just how quick the fire went. my family, my kids and our animals all got out basically with what we were wearing and we jumped in the cars and went to friends' homes. it was probably just 24 hours ago we learned our home was gone. >> i am so sorry. can you talk a little bit about -- we saw president biden saying that help is on the way. what have you heard thus far about how what specific help and what that means? >> we had a briefing at noon today.ie it included our supervisor from the county as well as our new state senator and our new

assemblyman. they are definitely diving right into it. they have had efto, you know, learn quickly how to cover something like this. but been on it. just 24 hours in, they have all been present. our senator in particular, our state senator perez, she was making sure we have what we need. what we know in that briefing is, i mean some facts are, there is about 18,000 structures that were damaged easily over 1,000, i would estimate, over 2,000 destroyed. again, it's a small community, so you could -- i happen to, even though i am not supposed to be up h there, i was up there doing a different interview from now i just came from it. i still smell like smoke. i would estimate to say half the town is gone. it's tjust devastating. i am glad biden is speaking. i am glad attention is being put to this. now is the time to figure out what our needs are. we have evacuation centers, plenty of people and businesses

looking to support any way they can, national corporations. we definitely feel like people are paying attention and want to help. we are just trying to, as a council, as a city trying to figure out how to funnel that into the hands of our residents. >> and just as katy and jacob were mentioning, you know, it isn't just personal homes. it's also places of worships, also schools. what is the status of kids in altadena, because, obviously, it's school time again? >> we are part of the pass dina unified system. we use their services. speak interesting a personal level, my children's school is gone. our place of worship is gone. they had just built a new preschool. there is all these private schools in altadena that are gone.se charter schools are gone. our middle school, elliot high school, i just drove by, it's pretty much gutted it look like. i don't know the to put my false information out because the

building looks intact. but it's clear something went through the halls of it. so, i don't know what they are going to do. the public schools certainly have, you know, a better chance of being a able to divert these children. again there is a lot of private schools. not because it's an affluent community. because these people believe in a different type of schooling here in altadena, individualized learning. so you have private and charter schools that aren't elite schools. they have a diverse community. i have no idea where they are going to go. they are not in the public school system. i don't have answers now. that's one of the things we will have to be tackling and making those children feel safe means getting them back to as normal of process as possible. that's what i'm doing with my own family now, too. >> indeed. can you talk a little bit about the immediate needs of the ne community? if you are evacuating but it feels like the fires are everywhere, at least from this coast.

what are the needs in terms of shelter, people who want to help? you can't send help into a place where people can't go anywhere. can you talk about what the immediate needs look like? >> absolutely. and speaking to feels like there is fires everywhere, definitely. we were trying to pick up essentials yesterday and my kids ran into a woman and gave her a compliment. she burst into tears.in she also has been -- it seems n like everywhere you go somebo is displaced. we stayed in studio city last night. there is a strong smell of smoke. it's like we couldn't escape it. the needs are hard to fill. that's a good point because we were just talking about that in our council meeting. we are trying to find a place to set up and provide these, but, obviously, it needs to be as close to the perimeter as possible. but we are not going to be able to get back in for a long time, for good reason. it's dangerous. there is gas. there is just so much going on.

toxic fumes. so for our own protection we are being kept away where we probably need to get. there are residents who their homes didn't burn it who are s staying there. pasadena has been incredibly useful. the civic center is open. we are ertrying to set up -- asn elected official, that's one of our biggest hurdles is making sure that we have ways for people to easily get our information an know where to go and then provide that space. >> is there an online -- i mean, to the extent that people are able to access it, place that people should be going for information right now? t >> thank you. yes. locally, the people of altadena, the town council website will have a link. we are creating our own website away from the main website. so people have clear and definite information. on a larger scale, the senator perez and the supervisor barger are providing all of that information on their websites.

that would be the l.a. county supervisor website as well as senator perez's website. this one of the hurdles we are trying to again, 24 hours in, trying to n,make sure that all that info is available. my biggest tip would be go to within, hopefully, within hours go to the altadena town council website. that's altadena town council dot-org and there will be a banner link that sends you to a separate site that -- that encompasses all the info we are trying to get out to them. >> altd councilmember nick, we are praying for your community. thank you for taking the time when we know you have a lot on your plate, sir. thank you very much. to you and your family. >> thank you, joy. >> thank you. and joining me now with some breaking news nis paul butler, msnbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. the breaking news that we have for you is that to the surprise

of many, including, i'll be honest, myself, the supreme court denied, denied donald trump's bid to stay his criminal sentence. he is scheduled to be sentenced tomorrow to no jail time. but as of tomorrow, he will officially be sentenced for the 34 count felony conviction in new york. the supreme court asked and answered they have said no to donald trump's bid to stay his sentencing. ladies first. lisa rubin, your reaction to that? >> i am somewhat surprised not because i thought that the supreme court's presidential immunity decision should have justified a stay here, but because i thought donald trump ultimately would have enough votes to go for the state.th instead, he lost narrowly by a vote of 5-4. and critically, chief justice

roberts and justice amy coney barrett denying donald trump that stay of sentencing that he sought. i want to read to you and our viewers the one paragraph that the majority of five justices wrote because i think it's really telling the reasons why they denied this stay. they say first the alleged evidentiary violations at president-elect trump's state court trial can be addressed in the ordinary course on appeal. meaning he can be sentenced and he can still pursue an appeal and the new york state court system he doesn't lose that right by virtue of being sentence. in fact, it's because and as a result of the sentencing being final that he would have appellate rights to begin with. they go on to say, second, the burden that sentencing will impose on the president-elect's responsibilities is relatively insubstantial in light of the trial court's stated intent to impose a sentence of unconditional discharge after a brief virtual hearing. in other words, the burden here

on him are negligible because the trial court judge already said in an opinion that he intends to sentence donald trump to unconditional discharge, which means no penalty whatsoever. no jail time. no probation. no fine. not even community service as far as i understand it. what the sentencing then does is it it's twofold. one, it finalizes the conviction, and it makes donald trump officially the one thing that he has not yet been, a convicted felon. and it will make him a convicted felon when he takes office on january wh20th. the second thing it will do is force him at least virtually, that is, because juan merchan gave him the option not to show up in person, force him to stand before the court and have the judge explain the rationale for his sentence and why he thought it n was imperative that donald trump be sentenced given the gravity of the crimes. he outlined this to some extent in the opinion that he wrote on january 3rd denying the last of trump's motions to try to avoid

this indictment and to vacate the verdict. but he going to have an opportunity to say his piece in open court. and look at donald trump, at least on the computer screen, and make it clear to everyone present and the historical record why it is that we are all issitting there. joy. >> extraordinary stuff. paul butler, are you as surprised as i am? >> it's a shame we have to be surprised when the supreme court abides by the rule of law. but, yes, i am surprised. last year, donald trump was convicted of 34 felonies, that was seven months ago. any other criminal defendant would have been sentenced a long time ago. so now donald trump will finally receive his just deserts now. unconditional relief, a gift from the judge to donald trump. it basically he gets his finger wagged at in court. i think that the judge will have a lot to say to donald trump

tomorrow virtually since donald trump doesn't have to be there in person that donald trump will not like hearing, but then it will nobe game over. he will go on to be president of the united states. last year, donald trump -- actually, earlier, yeah, last year donald trump said that the sentencing needed to happen after the election. and the judge went along with that. but now trump was saying that the sentencing should wait either four years until his administration is over or never happen. apparently, for at least six members of the supreme court that was a bridge too far. >> i am shocked that john roberts -- i will be honest. one of his appointees, amy coney barrett, went along with the liberals on the court. alito was just chatting with trump on the phone about a job for a former clerk. john roberts strikes me as protecting donald trump, his feelings, his ability to act bold boldly as he said in his idruling that donald trump has absolute community and he can

commit any crime he wants. i am shocked. i just assumed john roberts is there to protect trump at all costs. >> roi think that's absolutely right. there is a tension between roberts' fealty to donald trump and his fealty to the legitimacy of the court. >> 100%. what i want to talk to you about is we have covered a lot of criminal trials and cases and you wrote a whole book about incarceration, particularly incarceration of people of color. i was a couple weeks old finding out donald trump could be wconvicted of a 34 count felon and still not be called a felon simply because he had not been sentenced. i didn't know that was the rule. i thought that might be news to young black and brown defendants that until they are actually sentenced they don't have to check that box that stops them from getting jobs and stops them from getting apartments, et cetera. who knew?ng >> two things there.

first, donald trump's lawyers said, he can't be a felon because then he will e he will have all these collateral consequences like the ones that you mentioned. again, donald trump has never cared about collateral consequences or reform of the criminal legal system until it happened to him, and still he doesn't care about those black or brown people or the victims. he only cares about himself and other rich billionaires. what bragg said, this sentence needed to go forward because there needs to be respect for the jury verdict, the rule of law, and for the principle that no heperson is above the law. and the three other criminal cases, that point -- for the rule of law and equal justice of the law, we haven't seen that. but in this case, d.a. bragg finally justice, a little bit of justice done. >> yeah. and the only justice has been done by the state of new york, by alvin bragg and judge marshand and that jury. they are heroic. they are the only people to have

ever held this man accountable for anything he has done in country in aversion to the law. joining me on the phone is andrew weissmann, msnbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. i will let you register whether you agree with our ousurprise, d if you could, andrew, because to me this decision by the supreme court, this very surprising decision is also an indictment in many ways on the justice department, which has so clearly failed to hold donald trump accountable even for an attempted coup. but it is new york. it is the stalwart pursuit of justice by alvin bragg and the commitment of this judge to follow through and to have had case come to finality that has brought us here. your thoughts? >> well, there is no question that you can't say enough good things about alvin bragg and about the state court judge here who did the right thing and kept their head down and wanted to make sure that the rule of law applied regardless of station. t

there is a lot of blame to go around, including to the supreme court in terms of why the federal cases did not proceed in the same way that we are seeing with big court proceedings. a couple of thoughts on the 5-4 decision. the key difference here is that the chief justice switched, said that we had a presidential immunity decision that seemed to suggest that we could see a stay coming in place. but amy coney barrett dissented on the key part relevant to the issue that was before the court, and chief justice roberts also switched. so that may -- those were the two justices who joined the so-called liberal justices to make up five. and i think one, the main thrust in tthe take home here is that

the court said that the rule of law is going to apply the same way to donald trump as it does for anyone else. that is a long time coming, joy. i know i am preaching to the choir here.oi but that is -- they are basically saying this is the normal course. you raise issues on appeal after sentencing, not before. that's what would happen to you and to me and to everyone else. and that's why you have the five justices saying that. now, the bad news is that it was a 5-4 decision. this should have been 9-0. so what we are going to be wseeing in the next four yearss an issue of whether this will continue being 5-4 and we are going to have this block of the bfour dissenters and when we a going to see justice roberts and/or justice amy coney barrett switch back, and i think that

this kind iof dynamic is one tt i think we better sort of fasten our seatbelts. but tonight we are seeing the supreme court having done the right thing after they took so long to decide the presidential immunity decision, delayed the federal cases inordinately. but here they are giving the green light for the president-elect of the united states of america to be sentenced tomorrow in state court for 34 felonies that he was convicted of by a jury of his peers.34 >> it is an extraordinary and historic moment. let me go back to you, lisa. what was the reasoning of the four in saying that donald trump should not be sentenced? did they put forward their reasoning? >> they didn't. and, joy, this is sort of the

sopeculiar thing about these shadow docket applications like this. when somebody doesn't come to the supreme court through an ordinary posture where they are going through all of the conventional apill lit steps, rather, make an emergency application to the court, oftentimes the court, when it grants or denies, they don't explain themselves.'t all we got from the majority is a paragraph. the dissenters here could have spelled out rswhy it was that ty were opposed and they chose not to. and that's going to be how it remains. but i want to focus back on two justices in particular, justice roberts paand amy coney barrett. as andrew said, justice barrett didn't agree with the majority in that presidential immunity decision ton that one facet that affects this case, which is were you going to grant former presidents immunity from even having evidence of their official acts used in trials having to do with unofficial conduct. there were five votes, four yes. aim i think coney barrett said

this doesn't sit right with me. i am not here for that. doesn't surprise me she with went with the three on that particular issue. as for justice roberts, remember he wrote the majority opinion here. it is a convoluted, ambiguous opinion. it is messy in many respects. to the extent that anybody professes to know what it means, john roberts is going to be that person. and i have contended all week long that the trump lawyers sort of treated the presidential immunity decision like a great piece of elastic or chewing gum and some point that bubble burst because they tried to stretch it beyond its four corners. they tried to say, for example t that immunity should apply ply to a president-elect because there was something so special about ththe transition period i was like being an actual president, you were imbued with idso many important things to d vis-a-vis the transition that it was just -- [ inaudible ] said, no, no, we have only one

president at a time. and i think that argument was aprobably offensive to justice roberts. again, he wordsmithed, we imagine that he wordsmithed over that opinion and labored over it intensively in order to keep together that six-person coalition that formed the majority for most of that opinion. that means when tsomebody come to him and said, this is what it means and he says, that's not what i said, that would be particularly offensive to the author of that opinion. and i think in some respects that's what happened here. that elastic band turned into like the proverbial slingshot back at donald trump forcing him to appear virtually tomorrow at his sentencing, joy. >> there is a bit of an amen in your nod. >> amen. i agree with lisa. shout out to chief justice roberts and to justice barrett for doing the right thing. but again when we look at the people who are most responsibility in the court for protecting our democracy to the extent they can, it's justice sotomayer, jackson and keagan. so they are the people who

deserve most of our respect here. >> and andrew, you know, the challenge that i have is that john hroberts, if you want to talk about something elastic, it is his interpretations of the constitution. article section 3 of article 14, it means something sometimes but not when it's trump. you know, presidents have absolute immunity but i am not saying they are above the law. seems that he sort of does whatever feels politically expedient. i am reluctant to give him tons of credit. the outcome i think just. while we are on that train and seem to object having a train moving at least slightly towards justice, there is another issue. judge cannon took a little piece of clarence thomas', one of his concurrences and stretched that elastic to say that jack smith was wrongfully and unconstitutionally appointed. she aused that to throw out th documents case in which donald trump took home classified documents and put them in his bathroom. now we have a question of

whether or not jack smith's work product, which belongs to the american people, will be seen by the american people. where do you suppose that that is going in terms of whether the justice department, whether jack smith, whether merrick garland, i should say, will fully release both of these two reports that much produced for the american people on the insurrection and on the document theft? >> so, what i think it's important for people to know is right fonow judge cannon said y cannot release either volume one having to do with the january 6th case or volume two having to do with the mar-a-lago documents part. there is so much to say about her decision and why it's wrong. i mean, starting with the fact that she had no jurisdiction, she didn't wait for the government to even be heard, and that she didn't even have the january 6th case before her, and yet she stayed the release of that part. this is now in the 11th circuit. the 11th circuit, court of

appeals that oversees her, have reversed her twice already. i am confident that they will reverse her with respect to the january 6th part of her decision. so we will see the january 6th report, in my view. and think we will see that, obviously, before january 20th. with respect to the mar-a-lago piece, i think that the real issue here is that merrick garland has said that he does not intend to publicly release that because there are, in his view, two defendants remaining, the two co-defendants remaining in that case. remember, the case has been dismissed by the government without prejudice as to donald trump. but they haven't dismissed the hcase as to the other defendan. i think merrick garland made the wrong call there because there is no way in god's green earth, and that's a polite way of putting it, that those two

co-defendants are ever going to be tried under a trump administration. they are either going to get pardoned or incase will simply dismissed by the department of justice. so it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that merrick garland does not want to release the volume having to do with mar-a-lago. he does say that he wants to give that report, however, to certain people, the ranking members in congress so that they have an opportunity to see it. so it won't be completely buried. congress will have that opportunity. but i think, joy, to your point, i think with respect to the mar-a-lago piece, that is something that we are entitled to see and there also is likely to be information in there not only about donald trump, and according to jack smith why he took the documents and what he intended to do with them, but remember kash patel is all over that case. and kash patel has said that he

saw donald trump declassify the documents. and we know that jack smith thinks that's not true. so it would be useful to have all of the evidence about that before kash patel's confirmation hearing. there is more to be continued there. it's a complicated story. but i think the main holdup there is not so much judge cannon or the 11th circuit it is really merrick garland and whether he is going to continue to adhere to the position that he does not want to release publicly the mar-a-lago portion of the report. >> merrick garland making the wrong call? shudder to think. shocker of all shockers. paul butler, lisa rubin, andrew weissmann, our dream team, thank you for being here and available tonight for this breaking news. join msnbc tomorrow morning for special coverage of the trump sentencing beginning on "morning joe." the sentencing is scheduled to

begin at 9:30 a.m. eastern. i love new york. up next, scenes from the historic and ompowerful funeral service held for president jimmy carter in washington, d.c., today. today. upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast.

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will be laid to rest in his hometown of plains, georgia, in a gravesite next to his beloved rosalynn, his wife of 77 years. this after his body made its way from washington, d.c. he was honored with a state funeral including tributes from family members and friends, including president biden, all reflecting on carter's remarkable legacy. it was a rare instance where all five living presidents past and present were dpatered in one place inside the national cathedral, which led to some, let's just say, remarkable scenes. including donald trump and his former vp mike pence shaking hands in their first public meeting since the january 6th ins. a fact that perhaps explains mrs. pence's seeming disinterest in interacting with trump. there was this unexpected moment. trump eagerly seeking his long time nemesis and obsession

former president barack obama's attention and the two chatting and sharing a laugh at one point. and throw presidential funeral are planned years in advance and president carter did so decades ago, the eulogies were particularly poignant for the moment that we are living in. carter's grandson jason talked about how his grandfather's values were, quote, not just ahead of their time, they were prophetic. >> as governor of georgia half a century ago, he preached an end to racial discrimination and end to mass incarceration. as president in the 1970s, as you heard, he protected more land than any other president in history. 50 years ago he was a climate warrior who pushed for a world where we conserved energy, limited emissions and traded our reliance on fossil fuels for an expanded renewable sources. >> another grandson, joshua, delivered this powerful sermon.

>> the mind of man is death. the mind controlled by the spirit is life and peace. the sinful mind, it does not submit to god's law, nor can it do so. those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please god. >> in his eulogy, president biden made these timely comments. >> we have an obligation to give hate no safe harbor and to stand up to what my dad used to say is the greatest inof all. the abuse of power. >> there were also eulogies written before their deaths by former president gerald ford and walter mondale read by their sons. >> we told reporters on the plane that a lasting middle east peace would require the united

states to make tough decisions. like confronting the palestinian issue directly, thereby building on to which president sadat had literally given his life. >> he pushed to advance the rights of women. he proposed and signed the law extending the period for states to approve the equal rights amendment. >> these statements from the pulpit were in many ways an indictment of some of the men sitting those front pews. yes, trump. but make others, as well. joining me is someone who new president carter well and who will be familiar to this audience. my friend chris matthews, who served as an aide and speech writer for president carter and is the former host of hardball. >> yes. >> on msnbc. chris! my friend. so i don't know if i told you it that president carter was my mom's favorite president. the first president she was able to vote for as an american citizen. we are a carter family.

we loved him. what was it like borking for him? >> you know, i loved what andy young said today. you didn't get a clip of him. but he talked about how when he was the in annapolis, carter said, i want an african american roommate. this was back in the '40s. and i so i can help him adjust to a larger white environment because carter grew up in a black environment. nobody knows this. all of his play friends, all his playmates, everything that -- fishing together, everything together, chased each other, who was the fastest, and went to movies together and everything. carter was in that world of no other white guys. all black kids. his mother was always being a nurse, you know, registered nurse. so she is gone all the time, 40-hour durations. and he always had black women taking care of him. >> let me play -- >> different culture than people think a white guy would grow up in. >> let's play the clip of andy young.

>> i have known president carter for more than half of my life. and i never ceased to be surprised, i never ceased to be enlightened, i never ceased to be inspired by the little deeds of love and mercy that he shared with us every day of his life. >> and it was so point, to your point, grew up in a town near plains, not in plains, but a majority black town. his dad was a segregationist. his mom was a nurse who treated black people. most white men didn't understand in that era. how did that inform his presidency? >> it evolved. like everybody, nobody switches like that. when he went to annapolis, harry truman said we are going to stop the segregation of military forces even after world war ii. would have been better during

world war ii but he did it afterwards. so people argue about, what's more important changing the law or culture? sometimes hanging the law. sometimes you've got to start with the law and tell people, this is better this way, we don't have discrimination in the military. people say, yeah, that works. >> yeah. as far as the evolution, when he was running for governor two years afternoon king was assassinated, he skirted, well, you know, if people want neighborhoods to be the way they are, middle of the road and surprised a lotful people who voted for him even when he became president how ecumenical on race he was. >> in other words, he was -- he is a politician. i will not encourage what description of neighborhoods like -- i am not going to run a railroad through an italian neighborhood. i am not going to do -- yeah, playing that game. when he ran for governor, he went to the right of one of the other candidates. when he came in and gave his inaugural address, he blew everybody's socks off. his top advisor, what?

he said the end of the days of racial segregation are over? just as a simple fact. >> yeah. >> this was couple years after the civil voting rights act. he made it official in georgia. >> he tried to integrate his church in plains. >> he did. his own church. >> also became good friends with coretta scott king. andy young. what do you think his biggest legacy is? i think his honesty about the palestinian situation and equanimity towards the palestinian people. i never seen it before. he did it to the end of his life. wrote a book about it. >> there are more of them than israelis. jewish people, there will be more of them and they have to deal with it. unfortunately because of what happened with hamas, the horror that they propagated, but they did, it's going to make it more harder for the israeli people to ever accept a two-state solution. now, look, i think the greatest thing he did, people say he is not pro-israel, wait a minute. the biggest threat to israel

from 1948 when it was created up through the '70s was egypt. egypt was the powerhouse, the leader of the arab people. '48, '56, '67, '73 all wars led by egypt. he made a deal anwar sadat and said, no more wars. it's over. and even in the hamas situation since last year, they had closed that border. there is nobody going back and forth between hamas territory, the gaza strip and egypt. but i think on the larger question, the two state, you know, him and tom friedmann i think are the only that keep saying over and over again in "the new york times," we have to have a two-state solution or some day we will have a one-state solution. they have to put it together as one country. i think br people see that -- >> john kerry said as preview to apartheid. the other piece is his environmentalism. when he put the solar panels on the white house -- >> who took them down? >> reagan.

my mom didn't. we did it in our house because we were trying to do -- you know, go along with what carter was doing. my mother believed in it. he was ahead of his time in terms of things like climate change. >> the sweater hurt him. nobody wanted a sweater. i have thought it was beautiful at the church today, beautiful national cathedral. when they played hail the chief, how ironic. that beautiful music. he never allowed that be played when he became president. he said this is too imperial. i am not coming in like that i am carrying my clothes over my shoulder. all that stuff. he said the american people didn't like it. they wanted more of that. they wanted a little more, but there is a limit to it. he said they want a little more of that. now we have a president coming into office who is behaving like the big powers before world war ii. the germans and japanese. war land. we are going to take over the canal, take over greenland, bigger -- just like putin. he is beginning to behave like his colleagues in the world.

>> yeah. you know, how ironic to have donald trump in that same sanctuary with barack obama and seems really eager to chat with him. >> president barak wanted to chat, too. let's be honest. no. watching these tapes. he is chatting away. >> mrs. pence is like, no. >> you are not supposed to talk in church. >> you are not. >> but the fact that, you know, president carter even in death was able to bring all of these rivals together in one space in one room is sort of a testament to him, right? and to the sort of broad respect and reverence that there is for that man in death, yeah? >> well, i have studied this like you have, and i think there are constraints on the second term of donald trump. constraints that he cannot overcome. the market has to stay high. the gdp has to grow. the -- >> got to get -- >> the economy has to grow -- yes, inflation has to be dealt

with. all this stuff has to happen. and he has to deal with that reality. when he screws around with taxes and tariffs, whatever he is calling it, taxes, costing the consumer more and raising the prices of eggs and meat and all those other products we have to buy to survive, he is gonna get hurt. i think he is -- he has to watch the clock. also thune. i am not so sure thune may not be a smarter -- we will find out. i think he will be discriminato discerning. >> you are a hopeful guy. >> i have been accused of that. when you get older, if you don't get hopeful, there is no hope. >> excellent point. i love chris matthews. thank you, my friend. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. >> we'll be right back bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms.

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that's tonight's reedout. join msnbc tomorrow morning for special coverage of the sentencing of donald trump beginning on "morning joe." it's scheduled to begin at 9:30 a.m. eastern. all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight, on all in. >> it finalized the conviction and it makes donald trump officially the one thing that he has not yet been,