tv Alex Wagner Tonight MSNBC January 9, 2025 9:00pm-10:00pm PST
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conclude with this. he is gone, new never gone far. >> our thoughts and gratitude with the cater family. on that note, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up ta late with me. i'll see you again tomorrow. there is no longer any question. donald trump will reenter the white house as a convicted felon felon. at which point, he will go from
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being a felon to an officially convicted felon as he receives his sentence. in a last ditch attempt to stop the sentencing trump had asked the supreme court to intervene to effectively run out the clock until he was sworn in as president and could no longer be criminally sentenced. just as we came on the air, the supreme court announced that they had decided not to intervene on trump's behalf. in a 5-4 decision, justice roberts and barrett sided with the three liberal justices on the court and denied trump's request. justices thomas, alito, gorsuch, and kavanaugh said they would have granted this. this decision comes one day after we learned justice alito spent time on the phone with donald trump this week discussing a former alito clerk who is now up for a position in the incoming trump administration. alito and trump did not discussi trump's request which had not no
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yet been filed. but the supreme court was not the only conservative bench to been. the 11th circuit court of appeals rejected his effort to block the release of special council jack smith's reports on trump's efforts to overturn theo 2020 election. trump's legal team was attempting to stop them releasing the report and it initially looked like they might succeed after a favorable ruling by his favorite judge, aileen cannon but the 11th circuit said it could be released as soon as this sunday. we now have two significant judicial rebukes of president- elect donald trump. from two conservative federal courts. and while these legal victories do not change the fact that donald trump will be sworn in as president, it punctures the
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veil of invulnerability that has shrouded him in the leadup to his second term. is this a sign of what's to come? joining me now, clerk to sonya sotomeyer. also, tim miller, most of the bull work podcast. guys, thank you for being here to respond to this very new and significant developments in the last hour. first let me get your thoughts on the double whammy lobbed trump's way. denials from conservative courts. how significant are they? >> they are obviously significant. that will make donald trump the first convicted felon to be inaugurated as president.
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he announced he was not going to release the mar-a-lago report because there were two additional codefendants. that is a little interesting and concerning. there is a lot that would be important to the public to know. i don't know if this means the courts will be a bull work to donald trump indefinitely going into the future. but it is i think at this point, a reason for americans to breathe a sigh of relief. >> the narrative here.
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the difference between a felon and a convicted felon isn't sizable but i think that donald trump cares. this overture into his inauguration day, he will be appearing virtually. but a court sentencing him to punishment for being convicted. i think that still matters. i think it should matter. it doesn't matter in what sense. and to who. there is not any real ramifications for donald trump. he is not going to go to jail because of this. he will not be denied his inauguration because of this. the only actual ramifications, historical. this will be on the records he has broken this barrier as a convicted felon going into the white house. and what it means to him. and my initial response to all i
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of this, i felt that i don't know, sometimes donald trump likes the show, likes the circus. maybe he is like heck, let's go do this thing. i will go poke my finger in this guy's eye. but he didn't want to do that. i think he revealed this bothers him. the fact they tried to go to the supreme court and he has been lashing out in his social media. he is not somebody who plays his cards close to his vest. we can tell that he is upset about this. if that matters to you, you can take a little solace in it. >> i want to play trump's response to this. he is holding onto s the fact that the court in its decision suggests that if trump doesn't like the decision, he can go through the appellate process. this is what he said. just a few minutes ago when he was asked about the supreme court's decision. >> well they called for an appeal. as you know, they acknowledge
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what the judge said. about no penalty. but we will appeal any way. just psychologically. because frankly it is a disgrace. i read it and i thought it was a fair decision actually. so i'll do my little thing tomorrow. they can have mfun with their political opponent. >> i'll do my little thing tomorrow. first of all, the court didn't call for an appeal. they suggested he could follow that route. just break down for me what you think happens now. >> the court did not call for donald trump to pursue an appeal. it is noted many of the issues he raised could easily be resolved through the traditional appellate channels in new york state. in a traditional appeal. nor did the court say this was a little thing. because the judge had indicated he was unlikely to give donald trump jail time. and would be giving him an unconditional discharge. the fact remains donald trump
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will be convicted. he will be the first felon to be inaugurated as president. and that is really happening. and he basically said what tim has been saying. it is psychological for him. this is not a distinction that he enjoys. it is not something he wants hanging over his head. but in no way did the court minimize this. he is right the court could have said a lot more. the fact they emphasized the unconditional discharge suggests that perhaps they do, a portion believes this really isn't going to be an imposition on his duties. it is fine for this to go through. but if it were actually going to be a more weighty sentence, they might make a different er decision on that point. i don't think it is exactly as he characterized it. >> melissa, i want to ask you another question about how the court came to this decision. right? this comes the day after we had initial reporting from abc
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confirmed by nbc news that donald trump and sam alito, one of the judges on the court, had a phone conversation basically talking about a new hire. for the trump white house. they assured the press that they did not speak about the filing trump would make later in the day. but i wonder how much the appearance of impropriety there. may have factored in. that roberts and amy coney ts barrett sided with the liberals on the court. do you read into that? >> it is certainly worth questioning. it was an unusual situation to have the president of the united states calling for references in a middling appointment. the general council sort of thing that a chief of staff might do. in calling the candidates former employer justice of the united states. just before it will be filed
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before the court. justice alito has been embroiled in many controversies. this wasn't great. and we know the chief justice though he wrote the immunity decision for donald trump. he went into a whole thing on how the american public has to have faith in the court. so i really do think there might have been a situation here where the justices felt that the optics were really are poor here. and maybe they just felt this was a dumb petition and it was. but i think the optics were terrible. and it reminds me of the census case. when the republicans were trying to put that citizenship question on the census.
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looked like the entire republican lineup was on board to side with the trump administration. the republican strategist documents detailing how it would change the maps across the country. the chief justice switched his vote it seemed and sided with those who had been opposeing the addition of the census question so it could be a situation like that. >> before we go, tim, your t thoughts on the 11th circuit. judge aileen cannon. i know you guys talked on your podcast. part of the bull work net work about aileen cannon's audition for the supreme court. what did you make of her getting slapped down again by the 11th circuit which decided the special counsel's report can be released? >> i don't think she cares about that so much as long as ou she is still in the good graces
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of donald trump. and look, the aileen cannon model is something to really be mindful of as we look into trump 2.0. he can out source these judge decisions. i think he will look for more people like aileen cannon who he thinks are going to be truly loyal to him. and there were multiple times including this one where she advanced really preposterous rulings. there were elements of this, things she was trying to suppress that were not even under her per view. the notion that this random judge will be able to do this favor for donald trump was crazy in the first place. i hoped the attorney general does the right thing. and also, i think, the information about the investigation into the mar-a-
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lago raid. >> melissa, thank you. tim, we have many more feels to discuss this evening so please don't go too far. we have much more coming up with you ahead. up next, we will follow the breaking news out of los angeles where devastating wild fires continue to wreak havoc in one of america's largers andest and most populous cities. we will get the latest on the new fires that have just cropped up. that's coming up after the break, stay with us. break, stay with us. for people who feel limited by the unpredictability of
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tonight, wild fires continue to ravage the city of los angeles. the two major fires, the eaton and the palisades fires are still nowhere near being contained with the palisades fire only at 6% containment and the eaton fire at 0% containment. and another new brush fire. this one in west hills. that fire started just hours ago and it has already grown to around 1,000 acres with 0% containment. collectively, the fires have burned an area of more than 30,000 acres. more than twice the size of manhattan. and forced 180,000 people to evacuate. as we enter the third day of the fires we are just getting a rough and i mean very rough understanding of the scope of
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the destruction here. the palisades on the west side of la. on the east side of the city, officials say the eaton fire, the fire in and around the neighborhood of altadena, officials say that fire alone has destroyed another 4,000 to 5,000 structures. now, i should say that when officials use the term structures that could refer to anything from homes to garages or even burned cars. they are fighting the fires. these are preliminary counts. because the counts are done via helicopter and satellite, they are not an exact science. that said, we have images and they do not look good. this is a satellite photo before the fire. an aerial of homes along the pacific coast highway in
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malibu. this was that same stretch of road yesterday. with home after home just completely gone. this is a satellite photo of what the neighborhood of altadena looked like before the fire. it is a relatively dense neighborhood. a lot of homes. a lot of businesses. here is that same neighborhood last night. this is an infrared satellite image which is why is mountains appear blue, but the orange and red you see there is fire. all the numbers we are getting from officials are preliminary numbers. that means they are very likely to change. in the past 24 hours, the financial firm jp morgan doubled its estimate of the total economic losses expected from these fires. the estimate is nearly $50 billion. but again, these are all just early estimates. los angeles is still focused on
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fire fighting and evacuations. to begin a proper accounting of how much damage has been done. property damage is just one of the things we truly do not know the full scope of yet. here was la county sheriff robert luna speaking about the official death toll from these fires which as of last night was at five. >> regarding any death toll information, yes. we had preliminary numbers yesterday. i got to be honest with you. as i reviewed some of those last night and this morning i was not satisfied with the information we are getting and it's not the fault of our people. the people working under very difficult conditions are doing their best to do what they need to do. some of them looked like a bomb dropped into them. to bring canines and other thing to help us.
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hopefully not discover too many fatalities. that's our prayer. unfortunately, based on the preliminary information i have seen in the two large fires that we are dealing with on each side of the county. unfortunately, i think the death toll will rise. i hope i'm wrong. but i think it will rise. >> since sheriff luna made the remarks this morning the official death toll has risen to six. one of the key factors fueling all of these fire is the wind speed. the national weather service warns that inspeeds are expected to increase tonight. they should die down tomorrow morning and the weekend but expected to pick back up with another strong santa ana wind event anticipated to begin on monday. with no forecast of rain in sight, that means these fires will remain difficult to fight. but backup is starting to arrive. the la county fire chief says la's more than 9,000 firefighters were not enough to
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fight this many fires all at once. today, president biden announced that the federal government will give and search 400 federal firefighters 500 wildlife clearance personnel and 30 fire fighting planes and helicopters to the region. the state is also expecting hundreds of firefighters from nearby states like arizona, nevada, new mexico, utah, idaho, washington, and oregon as well as from as far away as canada. as much as the damage from these fires is already horrifying. the threat of more damage is still very much alive. joining me now is nbc news correspondent gadi schwartz who is live near the eaton fire in altadena, california. i know you are wearing an apparatus to help you breathe. >> reporter: sorry if i'm a little bit muffled.
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a little while ago. we were talking fine without the masks. and then, the wind shifted and whatever we are smelling right now, when the masks came down was very much, it smelled toxic and hurt the lungs. so i will have to do this with the mask. pardon me. >> please, gadi. >> what is happening out here. >> do what you need to do. go ahead please. >> reporter: yeah, no worries. and right behind us, this is a building you can see walls up. this is an exception here. this area of altadena. most of the homes there that we have been seeing throughout the day, they don't even have walls up. it is just the foundation. the only brick standing is a chimney. everything else is molten metal. concrete foundation and the rest of it is ash.
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it has been astronomically horrific to see all of this devastation and there's a lot of comparisons between the eaton fire. you mentioned the 4,000 structures. the houses and the structures they may have behind there like a shed. and those numbers are preliminary. 4,000 earlier. it was 1,000. they are saying 4,000. just by being in these neighborhoods, that is not a surprising number to us. that sounds accurate. but yesterday, we were also in the palisades. when you compare what you are seeing in the eaton fire and the palisades, unfortunately, the palisades, those numbers are extremely preliminary. whatever those numbers are, they are going to be so much higher and the type of devastation out there is just as bad as it was here.
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but again, there are differences in those communities. there's questions about insurance. and the assistance that the white house has promised and fema has promised in covering 100% of the fire fighting efforts for 90 days and assistance for people who lost everything here. the big difference between the community of altadena and in particular a couple of streets down the way here is that this isn't necessarily a largely affluent community. there are some communities here that one stretch was described as non-english speaking migrants who lived in rented houses and they were not sure that the renters or the people renting them had insurance. so there was a fear that because they didn't speak english they were going to take
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this as a complete loss and have no resources so that is something that a lot of people here are dealing with. and they are trying to figure out where to go from tonight. where to go from here going forward. because so many of them have been left with the clothing on their back. that's a cliche you hear from time to time. but it is a very shared reality for so many people that we have talked to. the fire ripped through here at 4:00 in the morning when so many people got out of their beds and evacuated and had to time to gather their belongings and lever. >> it is a staggering amount of damage. obviously. we have but a glimpse. a tip of the iceberg. gadi schwartz, thank you for takeing the time. thank you for doing reelly essential on the ground reporting. please stay safe. appreciate you. joining me now is correspondent msnbc host my
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colleague and friend katie in the pacific palisades neighborhood of los angeles where she grew up. you have been talking so beautifully. i found it really moving talking about what this experience has been like for you. standing in the ashes of your childhood memories. could you just for people who haven't heard it and for people who have, what has it been like the last 24 hours? >> it has been really weird. it's been so weird, alex. when this story broke, i looked at the images and thought this is going to be bad. there were fires all over los angeles. i grew up in the skies. my parents were news reporters. i grew up over fires. and they would get close to the palisades and watch the ridge line from my grandmother's house in the highlands.
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there was one in particular that threatened that ridge line. it never did and we always felt so lucky. that fire which started in the high lands just ended up ripping through everything. you thought it would get the homes in the hills. not the flat areas like the alphabet streets. if you look at aerials of the alphabet streets or the higher viewing point we can do from here, all the streets are decimated. they go abcdefc, that's why they are called alphabet streets. you just look at the line of streets. it is so weird rolling up to it. i went to the first home we lived in here and i came and i
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was just flooded with memories i haven't considered in decades. i was great at riding the bike. not at stopping the bike. i learned how to brake after that. i remember hiding from my parents because i was mad they wouldn't give me match boxcars. they called the police and the fire department. there was a bulletin out. i was just hiding in the yard! behind something. they couldn't find me. i was very stubborn kid. and just seeing that, and trying to come to terms with the vivid memories. there is nothing familiar about it. i couldn't identify. i had a hard time identifying the homes of my best friends up
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the street. you know. it is so. there are fires up above me here. moved around a lot. we had a number of houses here. we rented. i lived in a house below the fires. there is hot spots. they are worried about the hot spots. getting to the 405. they are concerned it could still be out of control. it was all morning. it was such a blessed sight.
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such a relief. they could really impact the flames in a way that a single firefighter or a team of firefighters cannot. they are supposed to be able to operate at night. i haven't seen them for hours so i wonder what was happening. i heard it was maintenance. but who knows. it's weird alex. it is really weird. there are so many thousands of people. i think the estimate is wrong. it has to be low. there are so many thousands of people coming back to this. it is not their memories, it's their life. the grocery store is gone. the churches, the synagogues. gone. it is just really a terribly depressing scene. it looks apocalyptic. it is unfathomable the amount of damage in this one town.
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>> memory is so linked to place. but of course, as you point out, this is not the fast for a lot of people. this is the present. and the question of how and when to rebuild if you can rebuild is just not even answerable at this moment. when big natural disasters happen it is rare we have someone who can speak so keenly to the emotional weight of the moment. it is so valuable to all of us to have you there. as hard as it is. it is moveing to hear you talk. >> can i add one more thing? listen, i think it is good to have people who know the communities they are covering. jacob also grew up here. it is easy to say this is a neighborhood full of rich
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celebrities. so they will be fine. there are a whole lot of middle class folks who have lived here generations. there's a whole lot of history you can't rebuild or spend a lot of money on the other and make it look all fancy. there is worry this will change more than it has. even for me, coming back here, before this all burned down, it has changed a lot. it was a new social strata that had taken over. there is worry that will continue. that there will be people who lived here because they lived here a long time who won't be able to continue living here. won't be able to have the next generation take over a home and send their kids to the lovely schools here that will be rebuilt. and i hope that there are, in new york, we have zoning regulations. you can only build a certain type of home in a certain type of place. you have to hope that something like that happens out here. i'm not aware of the particulars of the zoning but i would hope that down in the
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alphabet streets the, you wouldn't be able to take over multiple lots. and just build these big style homes. in the palisades, the alphabet streets were small lots. some single family homes. and it was a beautiful place to grow up. you felt safe. streets were small. you could play ball in the street. i hope that the town comes together and says to itself, we could preserve it. not give way to something else. some of the other instincts. >> yeah. >> katie my friend, i'm sending you a virtual hug. and a real hug when you get back. thank you for doing the show tonight. thank you for being there for all of us. stay safe. >> thanks for having me. still ahead, the staggering economic costs of the california wild fires as extreme weather trends toward
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soon, that number is more than likely to go up. maybe by a lot. this comes as california attempt to dig itself out of an insurance crisis. one caused in large partly years of wild fires made worse by climate change. california's largest home insurer state farm canceled tens of thousands of insurance plans across the state. 70% of state farm policyholders were dropped from their coverage on months ago in the palisades. now that very community has been decimated. this phenomenon is not exclusive to the golden state. insurance companies have also been pulling out of hurricane prone states including florida and louisiana and it is certainly possible even likely that this trend is going to grow given the stark reality of climate change. joining me now is jeff goodell. thanks for being here tonight.
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first of all, we haven't begun to grapple with the implications of the state farm for example dropping coverage for 70% of the palisades. do you think the insurance company is thinking you are no longer insurable? is that the wake up call the country needs? >> we hope so. >> the risks of living in this new climate, this hotter more turbulent climate are not priced in to insurance. the insurance risks are escalating quickly. you are seeing it around the country. there are tremendous
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implications to this. if you try to get a mortgage, you can't. you have a real estate market driven by cash. and that changes the housing market in a profound way. there are domino effects of this rising insurance prices. and it all boils down to this fact that we are not looking squarely in the eye of this new climate that we have created by 150 years of burning fossil fuels. >> i wonder if this is a moment where people decide not to rebuild or move back. even people who can afford to do it would be putting themselves squarely in harm's way. you talk stretches of the pch on like 100 feet of land going to the sea. i wonder if we will begin to see the real migration.
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>> there is no question this will have an impact on that. people can't afford to rebuild. they can't afford to take these risks. we will hopefully think differently. different planning about the fire. officials call the wild land urban interface. but ultimately, you know, this will be a kind of personal decision for a lot of people. and i think that it is inevitable that changed climate is going the change where and how we live. >> it would necessitate cities
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changing basic infrastructure. where massive wild fires can rip through. power lines will have to be buried. >> when we talk about climate change, we talk about green energy and clean energy. and reducing co2 emissions. an important part is the adaptation side. one of the reasons there was a shortage of water from this fire is power went out in some of the water pumps because of the fire. you would have better water supply. with things like sea level rise. building in different ways with more natural buffers and things. from rising seas. there's a whole bunch of ways we need to rethink how we
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rebuild our cities. >> we are in a different stage entirely. >> this is a devastating moment. but from it, hopefully, we will learn some lesson to make ourselves more resilient in the future that awaits us. or is on our doorstep i guess. jeff, it is great to have you here, great to have your perspective. thank you for joining me tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> still to come as we get ready for trump 2.0, democrats are grappling with a very familiar question. how seriously should they take the things that donald trump says? we'll get some wisdom on that from the great tim miller just ahead. im miller just ahead. mega-heist! -yeah! -i can't go back to jail! wait, did you rob my bank? sharing is caring, bro! let's make like dice and roll. ♪♪ advil liqui-gels
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today all the of america's living presidents were seated together in the washington national cathedral paying tribute to former president jimmy carter in a rare somber show of unity. it was a stark contrast to donald trump's news conference on tuesday when he announced his desire to take control of the panama canal, annex canada and buy greenland. as absurd as all of those proposals are, denmark is taking trump's comments seriously. a frank conversation about trump's remarks will likely be the only way to stave off a crisis. joining me is tim miller. i really especially want to get
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your thoughts on the right way to talk about or not talk about trump's whack-a-do plans which may be real planks in his forthcoming administration. is it entertainment or is it as tony blinken says i don't think it is not a good one. it is not going to happen. >> at some level, i'm sympathetic to tony. i'm like gosh now i have to talk about invading green lan? >> that is what trump is talking about with great passion and fervor. >> that is a good point. so look, these are the two way ins which i think it is politically meaningful. there are real geo political
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issues here at stake. panama doesn't have a standing army. they had a military cue a couple of decades ago. panama might have to reconsider their whole governing strategy. how they secure their country. how solid is their alliance with us. these scandinavian countries have to worry about russia. so there are real geo political implication to this. it might be a joke. who knows. if you are in america, do you have to take it seriously? probably not. if i was the democrats my advice to them is twofold. geo customer on the things he does that actually hurt people. but if there are opportunity to
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reach people, with some of the silly stuff. they should choose it and do it. donald trump did much better with people who don't watch news shows and democrats did better with people who do watch news shows. you know what information goes down to people who don't watch news shows? dumb stuff like invading green land. if there are way to demonstrate donald trump's weakness and failure i think it is okay to do. >> justice johnson who is a congressman has now introduced a bill that would authorize trump to purchase the panama canal. it is a joke until it is now something that you need to debate on in the floor of the house. there is your opportunity for democrats to shine the light. and say there is the absurdity he has focused on as one of the biggest cities in america is burning.
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>> and this is an america first movement. ostensibly, this election was about grocery prices. obviously, invading green land and panama is not going to do that. mass deportations will be inflationary. huge extending tax cuts for rich people. it will be inflationary. they offered no plans for dealing with costs. dealing with the things that justified his win in the eyes of the voters so i think it is okay for the democrats to say this is what he promised you. and this is what she doing instead. >> tim miller. thank you for joining me. thank in for both ends of this program. you're the best. we'll be right back. program. you're the best. we'll be right back. . ♪♪ it's a small win toward taking charge of your health. ♪♪
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