americans and if we can accomplish that in the next two years, i think we'll be in for a pretty good 2026. >> professor carville, thank you so much for waking up with us early. i will go back and check on my grade. >> all right. i checked. >> thank you so much. we'll see you soon. and that was "way too early" for friday morning. "morning joe" kicks off right now.off right now. came back this morning, and gone. just absolute -- it's the further you go up, it's just a wasteland. just stunned, shocked, speechless. >> these items weren't in the apartment, but in the parking area. what were you able to grab from the apartment, if anything? >> we weren't able to grab anything. everything is burnt to the ground. this is the only thing we could

manage to find and salvage. >> i've never seen nothing like this before, like from the smell to even how the sun is red. it's the worst thing i've seen. looked like a bomb just went off over here. that's the only way i can describe it. >> more harrowing stories from survivors of the wildfires in southern california. we're going to bring you a live report from one of the hardest hit areas, as well as the latest forecast, straight ahead, right here on "morning joe." good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, january 10th. along with joe, willie, and me, we have the co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson is with us. writer at large for "the new york times," elizabeth bemuller is with us. as well as jackie alemany. >> easy for you to say. >> alemany. happy friday, everybody.

>> happy friday. >> what a week. >> if we can even say that with the hellscape? los angeles. >> incredible. >> you know, because of the proximity of where i lived in pensacola, florida, i was over in louisiana and mississippi every day after katrina. i've got to say, there are a lot of parallels here. >> aren't there? aren't there? >> there really are. we don't know the exact causes for the complete failure of government to be able to protect these homes. i don't think we can say it's the smelt alone. we don't know what it is. but i do think it is going to be like hurricane katrina. i mean, the infrastructure has been slashed. you can't just say it is karen bass. you can't just say it is gavin newsom. this has been a trend for 30 years. >> yeah. >> infrastructure has been slashed across america. you do have climate change, so

you have wildfires sweeping into urban areas. they're kind of like fighting the last war. but i just -- the longer we get into this, the more i think about how new orleans didn't invest in their levy system. how they didn't invest in critical infrastructure, and people died because of it. it's just hard to hear people say in one of the richest cities in the world, oh, we don't have enough water to protect people's homes. >> yeah. well, you know, the system is designed to fight a big fire. it's just not designed to fight what happened. which is not entirely, you know, unexpected, right? because of climate change and because of the way the weather patterns have gone the last couple years. but you fight a fire that huge

from the air, you've got to get your choppers and your planes up, dropping water on something that big. they couldn't get the planes up because of the high winds. you know, should there be a more robust infrastructure? should there have been more than 3 million gallon tanks up on pacific palisades, which is what they're -- >> obviously. >> which is what there were, and they were full. that was not nearly enough. >> the question really answers itself. they should have had more. elizabeth, there are parallels also with what's happening in los angeles right now, where you have people moving into areas where wildfire spread. it's not like urban fires. so as homes, communities, buildings move into these areas that are going to have historically been swept by wildfires, it reminds me of

what's happening in florida with hurricanes. insurance companies are just starting to say, "we can't insure your homes anymore because they're in flood zones." it does seem like -- >> a lot of changes, climate change has become a big story. we've been doing stories about islands disappearing and, you know, i remember editing a story about miami being underwater, even at low tide. it's just become now much more of a catastrophe and much more of a catastrophe in the united states. i mean, i also think in los angeles, it's not quite a failure of imagination. i don't think anyone ever imagined there would be these wildfires in such an urban area. it was always in the far reaches of california. >> right. >> not in pacific palisades. not in the hollywood hills. it was just -- the thinking was -- >> forest fires. >> yeah. we weren't imagining a forest fire in pacific palisades. >> right, brush fire.

>> that's, again, a couple of things happening. you have urban sprawl, where people are moving neighborhoods out to places where they never were before. areas where you have more wildfires than urban fires. then you have climate change. you have -- and with all of that, you have a community, i guess, a municipality, that did not keep up with the realities of those dramatic, radical changes. just like the ninth ward in new orleans, this should be a wake-up call, very late, but a wake-up call, not only to los angeles and to california, but to politicians, local and state politicians across america. you have to fight the new battle. with urban sprawl, with climate change, with people moving into flood zones, with people moving

into zones where there are wildfires, something is going to give. it happened in katrina. it's happened here. >> yeah, there's a great piece this morning in the "l.a. times," a lengthy piece that explains how the water systems are set up in los angeles county, where they're able to deliver water and where they're not, and what they're designed to do, which is to fight a small house fire in one residential area, knock that down very quickly. even the firefighters themselves and the officials who run the water system say there's no water system. we could have done much better, of course, and hope to do better in the future, but no water system could have controlled this because of the way the fire was spreading with these winds. which is to say, it's not just the santa ana wind driving it in a predictable direction, but these wind gusts, hurricane wind gusts blowing in different directions from moment to moment, and shooting these embers, sometimes miles ahead of the fire and starting another fire in a direction they couldn't have predicted. it is truly, truly the worst-case scenario.

truly apocalyptic. a lot of questions will be asked about what can be done better next time. for now, these wind gusts, we're going to talk to angie lassman in a second. the wind gusts are coming back today, so it'll be difficult fighting these fires. they continue to devastate los angeles county. at least ten people died. officials think the number will go up as they get around the neighborhoods. 180,000 people now have been forced to evacuate as flames have burned over 30,000 acres. that's about twice the size of manhattan. five major fires have broken out this week with two of the most severe at 6% and 0% contained, respectively, as we sit here now on friday. the newest fire, kenneth, began last night near calabasas. the ventura county fire department says it's been able to stop the forward progress at least of that fire. while winds eased a bit yesterday, they are, as i said, expected to intensify and last through today, which, of course, only helps to spread these fires

further. in total, the wildfires are expected to be the costliest in u.s. history with losses estimated around $50 million. that's according to jpmorgan. joining us live frommal that dee from altadena, california, dana griffin. good morning to you today. what are you seeing since we saw you about 24 hours ago? >> reporter: willie, good morning to you. we are seeing a much noticeably different law enforcement presence here. we are noticing these black and white patrol vehicles. they have their red and blue lights flashing. we're noticing this at almost every corner in the evacuation zone. as we vot, you can see the lights here. this was not the scene, as you mentioned, yesterday morning. because, you know, they had a more open area. we saw several people able to walk into the evacuation zone. that's why play decided to bring in the california national guard. you can see we've got one hummer right here. there's also a guardsman

standing watch. there are actually a few more inside this vehicle here. they've deployed these resources because there have been several people arrested already who have gotten into that evacuation zone. several people have been arrested for looting. that's why there is now a curfew in effect from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. they want to make it clear, only first responders, media are allowed in this area. they want to keep people out to try to protect the properties that are still standing. so they can focus the resources on the fire fighting effort. you mentioned the new fire that broke out last night. luckily, some progress there. here in altadena, some 13,000 plus acres have burned. we know that there are ten fatality reports, that the medical examiner is now going to have to work through. it's a challenge. the medical examiner hasn't been able to go to some of the locations because of the safety concerns and fire fighting efforts. some of those remains are exactly where they are at this

point. it's been an emotional week for several people returning home. and, you know, people still cannot wrap their heads around what has happened to this community here in altadena, where the eaton fire burns, and also in the palisades area. crews are getting out of their vehicles, checking licenses and making sure the people who are entering this area are the people that need to be here. we are noticing, like i mentioned, just a huge, huge law enforcement presence. willie. >> dana, what are you hearing about the fire fighting efforts? i mean, it's extraordinary to be here on friday morning now, all these days later, saying one of the fires is 0% contained. one of them is 5% contained. we understand how difficult this effort is, how unpredictable the fires are, how the winds are coming back. does cal fire, do the firefighters feel like at some point they can get their arms around these flames?

>> reporter: absolutely. i think they feel that they are making some forward progress. i know when you hear the numbers, 0%, 6%, people think that that's a really low number. but when you start to get containment numbers, it's actually a really good sign because it's not reflective of the level of flames or the out of controlness of those flames. it means the line that they have around the fire so it can essentially burn itself out. so when we start to see the containment numbers and those, the acreage, not move as much, that's an indication that we have that, okay, they are making forward progress. we do still have the threat of the santa ana winds. where we are, we're not experiencing gusts that we felt 48 hours prior, so that is also going to be some relief for the fire fighting efforts. but i also have to mention that there has been some things that have hurt their effort. like the drone that crashed into a fire fighting aircraft.

that aircraft now cannot go up. they're telling people, don't put drones up in these areas. willie. >> nbc's dana griffin live from altadena, california, where if you look at some of the drone pictures, it's just been wiped out. all that's left in the footprint of these homes are chimneys in in cases. let's get to meteorologist angie lassman. good morning. let's talk again about the winds in southern california. what are you looking at today? >> good morning, willie. we saw improvements yesterday with the winds. of course, as expected. then as we went into the overnight hours, we saw that ramp up again. that's kind of what we're going to see, set the stage for, what firefighters are dealing with across that region for the first half of today. this is going to be a situation in flux with these winds. we've got multiple kinds of changes when it comes to the santa ana winds as we move forward, even well into next week. no surprise we've got all the ingredients there to prompt the red flag rnings to stay up. this is at least through tonight. i wouldn't be surprised if they last into tomorrow. the santa ana winds gusting to 60 miles per hour. we also, as expected, saw a

slight uptick in the humidity levels. not too impressive. a couple percentage points are going to help with regards to, again, the fire fighting effort there. we have 5% to 15% humidity levels, so minor improvements. take a look at where the fires are with wind speeds. at this hour, 70-mile-per-hour wind speeds close to the lidia fire. this is going to be kind of what we see up in the hills, in the mountains. 50 plus-mile-per-hour wind speeds, at least gusts across the region, through at least the first half of today. closer to the coast, 20, 30, even 40-mile-per-hour winds are possible closer to calabasas. look what happens as we go forward in time to the later parts of today. we see these subside a little bit. we're not looking at a whole lot of folks in double digits at this point. 6:00 p.m. tonight pacific time. the strongest winds will decrease by the second half of the day. unfortunately, we have a couple more rounds of the santa ana winds we're going to see take shape as we get to next week. we have this high pressure that's been sitting over the great basin for a couple days

now. this is one of the things that has influenced the santa ana winds. this is going to kick out, but look what happens as we get into tonight and tomorrow. we see this next high pressure system work into the pacific northwest, and then it essentially sets up right in the same place as we get into early next week. this means, again, we'll have some, you know, weakening of those winds as we get through the weekend, and there will be periods, windows of the weaker conditions for firefighters. as we get into next week, the conditions ramp up. unfortunately, no rain in the forecast for folks here. i want to say, though, this is a rare event for us to see these setups in the upper levels of the atmosphere for this time period. this is more common in fall, which is why the wildfire season across parts of southern california in the fall and really the entire state of california ramps up during that time frame of the year versus this time frame of the year. this is more of the wet season with the winter weather. today, willie, we still have areas under the critical risk. we'll be keeping a close eye on that through today and the weekend and next week. >> hope the firefighters at

least get a little help, a break in the winds at some point. they can get water on the flames. angie lassman, thanks so much. mika? adding to the winds, two other issues really hampering the efforts to contain these fires. some at 0% still. power and water. let's break down both of those. one of the utilities delivering electricity to the areas of los angeles ravaged by the wildfires has not implemented a safety protocol intended to prevent its equipment from igniting blazes. this is according to "the wall street journal." the los angeles department of water and power has not developed a plan to proactively shut off parts of its system during windstorms to reduce the risk of sparks from its power lines, regulatory filings show this. other california utilities do so periodically when fire risk is high. "the journal" continues, "as dangerous winds threaten to buffet los angeles, the los angeles department of water and power system remained energized

until the windstorm caused significant damage and knocked out power for ten of thousands of customers." the paper notes the causes of the wildfires remain under investigation, including whether power lines played any role. a spokesman for the department told "the journal" it has other safety measures in place. power lines in california have ignited some of the nation's most deadly and destructive fires. then there's water. meanwhile, the water systems that firefighters rely upon are antiquated and unreliable. "the wall street "the new york this morning that officials say storage tanks that hold water for high elevation areas and the pumping systems that feed them cannot keep pace with the demand. that was in part because those who designed the system did not account for the stunning speeds at which multiple fires would race through the los angeles area this week. we are looking at a situation

that is just completely not part of any domestic water system design, said marty adams, a former general manager and chief engineer at the los angeles department of water and power, which is responsible for delivering water to nearly 4 million residents of los angeles. if this is going to be a norm, there's going to have to be some new thinking about how systems are designed, he said. los angeles city council member tracy park tells the "times," there are environmental catastrophes waiting to happen everywhere with our water mains, she said. adding that some were a century old. >> again, i mean, frank, people are saying, well, climate change is causing catastrophes, the likes of which we've never seen. okay, yes. part of that is true. the other part of it is, that 50 years ago, let's just take the state of florida, a lot of people were not building in the flood zones that they're

building right now. they weren't building homes on top of the gulf of america. >> right. >> or what do we call the atlantic ocean now? the trump pond, whatever it's called. [ laughter ] but people weren't building where they were in flood zones, and they are now. here's a great quote from "the times." this is greg pierce. saying the same thing, these water systems weren't designed for urban fires -- or were designed for urban fires, not fast-moving fires. >> right. >> he goes on to say, a more fundamental question is whether it's a good idea to rebuild neighborhoods adjacent to wild lands. >> oh, boy. >> an issue that has been broadly debated across the west as climate change increases the frequency and intensity of fires on what is known as the wildland urban interface. again, the same debate we had after katrina. >> yeah. >> about ward nine. >> yeah.

>> why are you building in an area that is under sea level? the same question we're having in florida, where insurance companies are going, no mas. we're out of here. we're not going to insure your homes anymore. >> you've gone straight to the moral hazard problem. >> that's what i was trying to do, frank. >> i noticed that. it was a move i saw in your head. you walked on the set this morning, and i said, joe is in a moral hazard mood. >> yes, i am. >> terrible. >> really, you have a -- >> that takes me back to 2008. >> okay. >> i bet it does. >> you have a city like los angeles that is fundamentally unaffordable to a large part of its population. it has a housing crisis. it's part of the reason why it has the prevalence of so many homeless there. >> that's right. >> it just expands outward. it's always expanded outward. that's kind of the nature of a place like los angeles. >> into wildlands. >> when people buy property

there, they're not thinking, i'm about to get incinerated. they're thinking, i found a place where i can actually have a yard and afford to live there. i think, just as we think about this more globally, like, as you're going with it, we've invested so much in climate prevention, the prevention of climate change, but we've arrived at a place where we're in a new chapter in the history of this problem, which is we also need to invest significantly in mitigation. it can't just be on local and state governments to deal with this because when the crises smacked these places, they're of such a scale that, you know, it taxes their ability to think. it taxes their ability to spend sufficiently. it taxes, clearly, the actual manpower and resources that they have. >> they're dealing with the immediate problem. >> right. >> you know, it's very interesting, jackie. a lot of people are saying,

well, republicans, donald trump, they've always trashed california. they're not going to step in now. not to be crass and talk about politics, but since that's going to determine how much support california gets, we need to talk about politics. the fact is, changes in california's voting patterns over the last two to four years are in large part why republicans control the house of representatives. so i'm not so sure they can have a hands-off approach to california. you look at the gains republicans made in california and new york. that changes the outlook. it's not for new york city, drop dead. i expect you'll have republicans saying, we need to go in and help. >> i think you're absolutely right. right now, it's not just the elon musks and donald trumps of the world that are criticizing the emergency preparedness or lack thereof in the city. especially the palisades is sort of ripe for this kind of

conversation. the former mayoral candidate who lost to karen bass is a property manager, and it's been torched to the ground, caruso's development in palisades, an area that is so densely populated, it's unfathomable, the damage that's happened right now. but you're seeing, you know, hollywood stars, activists, pod save america hosts, the likes, asking california and los angeles specifically, one of the most progressive cities in the country, to really rethink a lot of the policies they've implemented and a lot of the dysfunction that people have been criticizing with regards to lessness and other less urgent situations and to try to course correct. but i do think, the end of the day, this is a real lesson in

overdevelopment in places that should not be overdeveloped. >> right. then the question is what to do about that moving forward. mayor karen bass was, in her news conference late yesterday, talking a lot about immediately rebuilding. jonathan lemire, cutting through red tape and getting people back in their homes. talk about the federal response, and then we'll also talk about the reality of that. >> yeah, it's going to be, first of all, an arduous, lengthy, and expensive process to rebuild these neighborhoods. some deeply affluent neighborhoods of los angeles. president biden said yesterday, the federal government is certainly going to do their part in stepping up. the federal government will have a 100%, they'll pick up the entire cost, 100% disaster response coverage over the next 180 days, which is an increase from the current 75%. that's what is normally allotted for a response like this. even more than what governor newsom requested. he requested 90% federal support. president biden says, no, we'll do 100%. he's also saying that congress is likely going to need to step

up. he'll make an appeal for a supplemental. that's where things get tricky. republicans now, of course, have both the house and the senate. they're about to have the white house in ten days' time. donald trump's inauguration exactly ten days from today. president biden had been in southern california for a few days as these fires ignited. he was there on unrelated events, events that he had to cancel. he canceled what was going to be his last foreign trip. he was supposed to be in rome today meeting with the pope. no longer is so he can maintain the federal response to this. also, vice president harris, whose home there in the brentwood area of los angeles, very close to some of these fires. she also canceled what was supposed to be her last foreign trip. she had a couple of stops to make in asia and then europe. that likely now won't happen either because she's also wanting to be part of the federal response here. one that hits very close to home and to her heart, as she said yesterday. mika, right now, the federal government is stepping up, but

this is a long way to go before the fires are even contained. then the rebuilding begins. we'll see what happens as the new administration enters. president-elect trump continuing his feud with gavin newsom yesterday. >> we'll have a lot more. ahead on "morning joe," a few hours from now, donald trump will be sentenced in his criminal hush money case after the supreme court refused to delay this morning's hearing. our next guest will be heading to manhattan criminal court for that. we'll have a preview next. we'll back in 90 seconds. onds here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein,

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george w. bush greeted his successor like this, and belly bonk. hey, what's up? hey, what's up, 44? yeah, you're lucky this is a funeral, or else it would have been a sack tap. >> people are talking about the greeting george w. bush gave barack obama. check this out. >> live coverage of the state funeral of former president jimmy carter. >> there you go. what's up, chief? greeting him like a bro who finished a keg stand at the frat house. your turn, bro. >> oh, my, there were a lot of reactions. people were talking about, obviously, president obama and president trump talking beforehand. of course, we're the bill

o'reilly lip readings, where are the body language readers when you need them? >> things might have happened, you know, before they came out. >> yeah, they were in a holding room beforehand. we'll find out three, four years from now. but the bush thing, how you doing? >> that was definitely, yeah, what it was. >> mika, very moving service yesterday. >> it was incredible. >> i must say, what an extraordinary -- >> eulogy. >> -- life. what an extraordinary faith. what an extraordinary man. >> and i feel the funeral, it was one of those events that was 100% authentic. everything that was said in there was 100% true. not exaggerated at all. this was who he was. i mean, andrew young. and joe biden's eulogy was unbelievably beautiful.

started off with a little bit of an edge there, i thought, to the future. it was -- joe and i sat with a lot of folks who worked with my dad. it was a little bit of a reunion, in a way. very poignant. >> when you think of how carter left washington, the way he left, he sort of skulked out of town, reagan was supreme. he was a failed president. they waited to release the hostages until after reagan took the oath of office. >> of course. >> for years, for decades, you know, he was seen as this failed president. it's been a total reassessment. but i was thinking yesterday, watching in the grand space, that huge, beautiful space, and all of the presidents came to pay homage to him. it's a very different arrival back in washington. >> this is a man who felt and was an outsider. operated that way. also had a very simple, moral

approach. simple in a good way, to his gov erning. this is interesting, history, it takes time to look back, on a certain amount of time, of what a presidency meant to the world. in this case, wow, did the narrative turn. when you look back on this presidency and really pour through the details of it. >> it reminds me so much of harry truman. harry truman left, sulked out of town, went back to independence with maybe a 23% approval rating. jimmy carter left much in the same way, going back to plains, georgia. then you go back and look at what truman did in '47, '48. he reframed the entire post-war world. what jimmy carter did in 1979. the hostage crisis, of course, so horrific, but you look what he did. camp david accords. what he did with -- >> china. >> -- normalization of china. you look at what he did on human rights. when the soviet union fell, the russians, they did not go,

reagan brought down the wall. they blamed two people. jimmy carter and -- >> yeah, mm-hmm. >> -- and the guy who was her dad. but they knew it was carter. it was human rights, which i remember as a young kid, republicans mocking jimmy carter for being too idealistic on human rights. but it's the soviets who saw that as -- that and him ramping up these defense systems that reagan carried through in the 1980s, and it was, of course, a continuous line, but jimmy carter certainly -- >> he started the buildup and started applying those pressures on the system that ultimately cracked because it was so brittle. >> right. >> but really, the reassessment of carter's presidency has taken place over, you know, years. now, it's a good thing that

people appreciate what he did. i was thinking yesterday, i was talking to andrea mitchell. so israel and egypt have been at peace now longer than they were at war, right? from the founding of israel to the camp david accords is not as long as from the camp david accords to now. i mean, his accomplishment, that accomplishment, so enduring, that social it's remarkable. >> he was strong enough to withstand all the pressures put on it in october 7th and the aftermath. >> exactly. >> it's interesting. we talk about the morality of jimmy carter. just like people talk about the morality of abraham lincoln. >> yes. >> lincoln is a god. lincoln, you know -- jesus touched lincoln to be this saint among men and women. >> yeah. >> yet, you read what abraham

lincoln said from the first day he got in the illinois legislature in 1834. i mean, to even right before emancipation. there's some shocking things that lincoln said, but it was part of a process that he knew he had to get through to ride the wave. the thing i loved about what andrew young said yesterday, and what i've also heard about jimmy carter is, you know, curtis wilke, he basically said that nobody in georgia likes this new guy, jimmy carter. people on the right think he is too liberal. people in the civil rights community thinks he's too conservative and a sellout. and you read that and go, okay, that's what people were saying about lincoln. so i loved the part where andrew young said, this man that was practically a saint, he said, yeah, basically, the most racist sheriff in the entire south, who

martin luther king said he was the most hateful human being he'd ever met, came from jimmy carter's home county. the first time andrew met carter, he said, you know this sheriff? jimmy carter said, one of my best friends. [ laughter ] andrew young said, he ed to hear anything but that. >> what is this? >> but we're all talking about the great moral message of jimmy carter. there's also that message, too, of, you know, tacking left and right and doing what you can do to move forward. it wasn't always black and white for jimmy carter. >> right. >> but he created the new south. >> right. >> jimmy carter did. >> right. which is strange because you're saying that there's this tension between being somebody who just exudes virtue from every pore, and then being a politician who has to navigate changing times.

really, isn't that what public life is about? one of the things that is just so hard not to reflect on at this moment is that, given all the temptations of power, given all of the madness that ideology can lead people, that public life squeezes out good people. to have careers that embody virtue, even within this framework that you're just describing, which requires moral evolution. >> all right. we'll have more looking at this incredible state funeral ahead. willie has more news this morning. >> yeah, in a few hours, president-elect donald trump will be sentenced in his criminal hush money case after the supreme court denied his request to block the proceeding. the high court issued its 5-4 decision last night, noting the burden that sentencing imposes on trump is, quote, relatively insubstantial, because he will not receive prison time. trump's legal team argued the

president-elect should be immune from criminal proceedings because of the supreme court's ruling on presidential immunity last year. trump responded to the supreme court decision last night. >> they acknowledge what the judge said about no penalty and there is no penalty. but we're going to appeal anyway, just psychologically, because, frankly, it's a disgrace. so i read it and thought it was a fair decision, actually, so i'll do my little thing tomorrow. this is long way from finished. i respect the court's opinion. i think it was actually a very good opinion for us because you saw what they said. but they invited the appeal, and the appeal is on the bigger issue. we'll see how it all works out. >> the sentencing is set to take place at 9:30 this morning in new york city with trump expected to appear virtually. let's bring in former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin who, of course, will be at the courthouse in lower manhattan this morning. good to see you, lisa. are you surprised at all by the

supreme court ruling, 5-4? does this feel right? >> yes and no. i am not surprised because i think it was the right application of the presidential immunity decision. on the other hand, i am surprised because after that presidential immunity decision, there are many legal observers who thought, this is a group of people who will do anything to help this guy. the fact that donald trump had a phone call a couple of days ago with samuel alito, allegedly about will leavey, who was chief of staff to bill barr and now want, apparently, a lower profile appointment in this next trump administration, that didn't ring true to me. particularly after that, i think many of us were cynical about what the outcome was going to be. >> no prison time today. donald trump will appear virtually. he will not be here in manhattan. what should we expect in the courthouse today? >> we should expect a presentation from the prosecution about why it was important to them to get to this place, to get to a place of sentencing, particularly when

they backed off of any recommendation of jail time here. then the defense will have an opportunity to speak. we should expect really sharp, ever-escalating language, as we've seen in their briefs, frommed to from ed todd blanche, the lead lawyer for president trump, and will be the number two at the department of justice. then the former president and future president will have an opportunity to speech himself. willie, here's where things get really interesting, because trump won't be in the courtroom. therefore, if he starts to say things that aren't, for example, permitted by the very narrow gag order that is still in place in this case, merchan can't take action, for example, to remove him from the courtroom, or to have that kind of confrontation with him in person. what will the solution be if trump continues to pontificate or refuses to sit down and sort of have his time? if he continues to talk and talk and talk, it'll be really interesting to see the fireworks that might occur between him and judge merchan. finally, judge merchan has an opportunity to explain his

sentence. what were the factors that went into this decision by him to give an unconditional discharge? he sort of nodded to it last week in his decision, refusing to vacate the verdict or the indictment, but this will be his opportunity to address the convicted defendant and tell him why it was that he decided an unconditional discharge was necessary and appropriate here. >> lisa, we know there will be minimal penalties. there will be no prison time. this does enshrine, once and for all, that donald trump will take office as a convicted felon. talk to us also about why it just matters. why do -- do you think the judge is sending a signal that the process work, that the will, the decision of the jury must be expected, that it's almost like a vote of confidence for the legal system despite what the supreme court may and may not have said in their other decisions? >> absolutely. i think that was the imperative for the district attorney's office, too, throughout their briefs and arguments. alvin bragg had a press conference yesterday in which he spoke about this, too. the reason to have this

sentencing at all is for two reasons. one, because you want donald trump to have that label attached to him. two, for the history books, you want to accord there was some accountability, even if that accountability only comes in the form of process. you want to honor the erdict of the 12 people who sat there seven weeks, hearing the evidence in this case, and reminding the public that jury service is not for not, at least until an appeals court says, this conviction cannot stand. judge merchan is determined to honor the verdict. >> separate topic. judge align canon blocked the release of the special council's report. but the justice department can, in fact, release the report about president donald trump and election interference and the documents case, as well. is this report going to see the light of the day? >> it is. so at the very worst, merrick garland has to wait three more days. that's because judge cannon's original order said that her

stay would essentially expire three days after the court of appeals had its say. then the court of appeals last night said something else. they said, look, if you don't like that, if you don't like the fact that we're sort of leaving in place her order for another three days, you can pose a direct appeal of that order if you want to do something sooner. sure enough, we've seen the notice of appeal filed by the justice department. one way or another, by sunday, merrick garland has the right to do that. unless, of course, donald trump goes to the supreme court in the interim. i think this story is far from over, willie. i think, ultimately, the report will be released, but we still have a few days to go and innings left to play. >> briefly, what's in the report? what will the public know if it is made public? >> i think we should compare this to the mueller report, right? at the very beginning, we didn't see everything. there was a lot blacked out of the report, and i expect the same might be the same here, too. but what we should expect to see is the evidence that backs up all of the allegations that were in the indictment, and perhaps beyond that, right?

an indictment is the skimming of the surface about what the government knows and intends to prove in their case. at some point, we will get to see what the government learned in its investigation. may not be fully in a couple of days, but it'll be soon. >> msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. thanks so much, as always. good to see you. joe? >> thank you so much, willie. you know, gene, it's interesting. we were talking about it earlier this week. you know, immunity ruling, it's been oversimplified. >> mm-hmm. >> 80, 90 page document, which actually had basically three different silos of privilege. you know, over here, constitutionally, pretty much absolute privilege. over here, for acts that aren't official. >> right, right. >> no privilege. >> right. >> in the middle, official acts, presumption. >> a presumption. >> but a presumption that the state can easily overcome.

so it's oversimplified. it is telling that amy comey parrott, in the immunity case, she concurred by distanced herself from clarence thomas and the court in some areas. it was amy coney barrett yesterday who ruled 5-4. i have to say, the second thing that people should be looking at, that think that every federal judge is going to lay down over the next four years and not do their job, is it wasn't any circuit court yesterday that ruled. it was the 11th circuit. >> that's right. >> the most conservative, i would say, the most conservative circuit court. >> yeah. >> so i think madison lives. there will be checks and balances over the next four years. we can catastrophize, and bad things will happen, but i'm not so sure that federal courts are ready to just roll over. >> yeah. we have reason to hope. we have reason to hope. and to expect, i think, yes,

that the judiciary, the court system, as it did during trump term one, will stand up and will interpret and execute the laws as the laws are, not as donald trump would have them be. so we do have reason. you know, let's come out of the cocoon. it might be okay. >> let's just take it day by day, actually. >> who my wife is. >> come on. >> we have reason to not catastrophize about everything. >> well -- >> i'm not going to say a reason. >> i like to catastrophize. i'm a catastrophizer. >> she really is. >> troubleshooting. >> i'll say the appellate judge in this case said that -- she asked todd blanche, one of the president's defense lawyers who is going to be senior official

to the department of justice, was there any support for the notion that a presidential immunity extends to presidents elect? todd blanche said, there has never been a case like this before. so they were on thin ice here. trying to say that this presidential immunity ruling extends to a president-elect, who -- and this was not an official act. he wasn't even president. he was, you know, covering up payments to, you know -- >> yeah. >> what's interesting, though, is this really was a first of its kind case. the immunity case, frank, the decision, they said, this is the first time we've ever had to address this issue. and so i think yesterday, again, showed that for those who think the immunity ruling is just the court saying we surrender, there are no checks and balances, they should look at it, it is fascinating, donald trump saying it's a disgrace what happened to

him, but saying two or three times, i respect the court. i respect their decision. i will say, that is far different than what he said about the court in his first term. >> i mean, i think it goes back to what you were discussing with gene, which is that institutions will be tested. they're going to be tested again. our hope is that institutions remain strong. i think trump himself is not totally sure how strong institutions will be in the face of all the ways in which he will push them. what he was saying yesterday was essentially, you know, respecting that there is a likelihood that the supreme court will intervene to stop him when hefurthest limits. >> we shall see. jackie alemany, frank foer, "new york times" writer at large, elizabeth bemiller, thank you for being on this morning. coming up, we'll take a quick break from the news and switch to sports. pablo torre and paul finebaum will join us to break down the college football and nfl playoffs. "morning joe" is coming right

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49. he throws. and it is intercepted! it's picked off! >> notre dame coming up with a crucial interception with just 33 seconds left to play in a tied game against penn state. a throw that drew allar would love to have back. because it sets up the irish for a quick 19 yard drive, capped by game-winning field goal from 41

yards out. the kicker's name is jeter. jeter comes up big in the playoffs. they do. >> that's right. >> not true. >> 27-24, notre dame advances to the title game. they'll face the winner of the other semifinal tonight in texas, where the longhorns effectively playing a home game, hosting ohio state. msnbc contributor pablo torre and espn commentator paul finebaum. good to see you both. paul, i'll start with you and college football. s.e.c. guys, it's hard to watch the grind it out, midwest teams play, but notre dame did just enough to win last night. you think they have a shot to win the whole thing? >> i'm not that optimistic, willie, because, as you watch their games, every game is a slog. they're incredibly well coached by marcus freeman. especially with ohio state,

which most people think it will be, it seems like they're on a different platform. by the way, speaking of the s.e.c. to you and joe, it could have been a lot worse this morning if penn state had won. we had the possibility of an all big ten national championship. that would have made the three of us head for the hills. >> boy, you know things are bad when a reporter on alabama football is celebrating a notre dame win! it's as if he doesn't remember 1977. >> hmm. >> i mean, come on. which, by the way, might be a rematch for those who remember when notre dame jumped from five to one by beating texas. we may have a rematch there. hey, pablo, serious question here. you know, i do think the conference that has won 20 of the last 25 national championships, probably the best conference. >> who is counting? >> you and i talked last year about how -- i think we were

talking about a pretty mediocre nfl season. >> yeah. >> i just want to know, is it just me as an s.e.c. fan, or when i watched this game last night, and i'm dead serious, it looked like i was watching high school football. >> come on. >> hold on a second, hold on. just slogging up the middle. quarterbacks getting the ball and putting their head down and running up the middle. i can tell ya, man, in s.e.c. football, that stuff just didn't used to happen. i know we're terrible this year, but do you think this is a mediocre year, or is this the future? >> a couple things. i'm glad you didn't reference nutley, new jersey, this time, the drinking game. >> fantastic. >> didn't get that one. but was this war of attrition? yes. was notre dame's injury situation that came into this game, losing about a half dozen starters, which is crazy, the quarterback got hurt, their best player, the running back, jeremiah love was hurt in the game, played hurt.

so, yes, this was a survival as much as it was a showcase. but i just want you guys to remember, maybe you should reconsider relocating to those hills. brian kelly was the coach of notre dame. 2022, i need the resources to compete for a national title. goes to lsu, fakes the worst southern accent i've ever heard, and now he's watching notre dame, not three years later, make it to the promise land he said i need to go to the s. e.c to go to. >> my question for pablo and everybody around the set, because willie and lemire follow this all very closely, too. what i'm curious is, have we just seen a fundamental shift that's going to stay with us, where you have these slogging teams that just sort of just -- it's a return to, like, 1974 football. i'm wondering, is this the new normal? or is this just a transition year because of nil?

>> oh, i love -- i love -- i love what you're trying to do here. i really do. >> you just can't answer the question, and you don't have to. willie, what do you think? >> oh. >> no, paul, both college football is spread them out and throw the ball. we have to remember, notre dame did beat georgia of the s.e.c. >> thank you, yes. >> granted, without their quarterback. stimulate that, without carson beck playing that game, but they beat georgia. took care of them, not easily but pretty comfortably. paul, you can talk about where the game is right now, where the s.e.c. is, but also let's look forward to tonight's game. still getting used to calling texas an s.e.c. team, but they are. what do you expect to see tonight? texas effectively playing a home game there in arlington against ohio state. >> yeah. it's right outside my window, jerry's world, where we have about 5 inches of snow here in dallas, which is quite a major accomplishment. i expect ohio state to win this game, willie, because they have

the best player in college football, jeremiah smith, who is a freshman. he has to waste it two more yeao go to the draft. he'd be the number one player taken, that's how good he is. no one can cover him except ryan day and chip kelly, the head of the offensive coordinator, forgot to throw to him in the michigan game. he got two targets in the second half. but texas, as crazy as this sounds here in dallas, is representing the s.e.c. a year ago at this very moment, they were representing the big 12 in the national semifinals. i want to go back to what pablo said a minute ago, and i was in new orleans last week with all the notre dame fans. they are taking as much pride in maybe winning a national championship for the first time since lou holtz in '88, as much pride with brian kelly. i mean, they hate brian kelly. >> it's great. >> he is the one who said, i want to win a national championship at lsu. he lost four games this year. i mean, it wasn't like he was

that close. i think that's the dual story that's going on next week. as far as tonight, texas is very good but i don't believe they're in ohio state's league. >> no. >> let's turn now, pablo, to the nfl. also the playoffs start this weekend. couple glamor matchups. steelers and ravens, great rivalry there. the steelers are limping into the playoffs. packers and eagles, another fun one. the packers, again, sort of coming in less than 100%. we should also note the monday night game, vikings and rams, has been moved. it was going to be a los angeles home game. because of the fires, it's moving to as where they'll play that on neutral field. what matchup or two are you looking forward to the most this weekend? >> talk about the rams game. the vikings, it's interesting. they had two losses this season, the vikings. two teams, in particular, they struggled with. it was the lions who they lost to to close out the season, this heralded regular season matchup, and they also lost to the rams. here is this matchup again with

a reeling vikings team which is really good, with the fires. there is an interesting subtext here. everybody expected when this game was in l.a. for vikings fans to overwhelm a city that doesn't really represent for the rams. now, the idea they're moving to arizona, it's just not certain, actually, the minnesota vikings are going to turn that into minnesota, minneapolis, twin cities west. you have this dynamic, against this catastrophic backdrop, but i'm focusing on that. the other game you have to look at, the commanders and buccaneers. joe, we say this all the time. baker mayfield. >> baker. >> there's no greater surrogate on national television than joe for baker mayfield. this is a guy who got snubbed by the pro bowl, although, again, really, really tough competition to be a quarterback out of the nfc. but he had 40 touchdowns, 70% completion, 4,500 yards. the third guy ever to do that. as much as we talk about jayden daniels, again, out of the

s.e.c., lsu, great player, the bucs are better. they run the ball with irving. the commanders can't really stop the run. i think baker mayfield going to the second round, i think we're going to be talking and hearing about more baker after this weekend, which is a crazy thing, given, again, how he was discarded by some of the worst teams in the entire sport. >> yeah, and it remains to me a shock that the browns, i mean, worst trade in nfl history. >> yes. >> thought the herschel walker trade was perhaps, used to be the worst trade in nfl history. >> mayfield. >> mayfield trade is the worst in nfl history. i thought what the bears did, getting rid of fields, getting caleb williams, i thought it was a catastrophic mistake. >> i did not see jayden daniels

being this good, i knew he was good, i had no idea, this guy is next level. >> yes, he is amazing and really the only person that saw this coming was jayden daniels, he knew how good he was and how good he would be, the commanders have been playing with house money since about the sixth game of the season. they are in the playoffs, so absolutely, everybody go ahead and think that baker mayfield is going to kill him and the buccaneers are better, and have a nice sunday evening. >> i want to go back to you, i wanted to say something else because the thing about jayden daniels i love, the first he walked onto the field, he looked like he owned the field, and let me tell you something, everybody is talking about how horrible the atlanta falcons

year was, i saw something different in michael penix, he drove down the field and put the game into overcoming -- overtime. and he put it in the pocket. yes, maybe sabin was six and six but this guy, i'm telling you, the falcons, i don't know a team with more offensive weapons right now with penix, i'm just saying these atlanta fans are whining way too much, they've got a defense, they have something to look forward to. >> at the risk of being electroshock right now, there is a real renaissance at running back across the league, robinson, michael penix, you are right, falcons fans are too

traumatized to feel what they are being sold but, it is really fun to watch this team. next season a lot better i think. >> and by the way, comeback player this year, you probably won't get it, but you have to look at bryce young, just extraordinary. >> he was thrown out with the trash after about three weeks, completely done, really in the last four or five weeks. really the last three teams, he led them, and i think a lot of people are cheering for him because he was treated the worst by his own team when they literally got him out of the starting lineup. >> paul finebaum and pablo torre , there's your electrocution, i feel it.

the game was moved due to the wildfires that continue to rage across southern california, 10 people are dead and thousands of structures have been destroyed. nbc news senior national correspondent, tom llamas has the latest. >> this is what the most destructive wildfire in california history looks like, thousands of structured already obliterated, more than authorities can count, the burn area and the pacific palisades. >> i think the death toll will rise, i hope i'm wrong. >> and the biggest infernos are still 0% contained. these were the cars that were abandoned when people got stuck in gridlock and had to run to safety, a bulldozer came through to let the fire crews out but these cars were stuck in the inferno. look at that, that is molten metal that was rolling down the block. stunning video showing the threat to los angeles is

infrastructure, threatening radio, cellular and broadcast signals citywide. roughly 2000 firefighters are still stretched across the front lines but it is not enough. residents pitching in to save their homes. >> this is a tragedy. >> you think it is never going to be you, and now that it is me i cannot tell you the amount of heaviness in this disaster. >> this family lost everything. >> what i would give to do dishes in our own house, which is so basic things you take for granted, all the life we built here. >> new fires igniting, the more heavily populated areas, the sunset fire triggering rush- hour evacuations in the heart of hollywood, miraculously, a

break in the wind left the cruise attacked the fire from the air, stopping the blaze before it could reach the homes. these firefighters are going nonstop, 60 hours battling more than just the flames. >> water pressure has had a big issue, we had to go back to sunset boulevard to get water to come back here. >> reporter: anger is growing, many questions are looming, was los angeles prepared? >> we will absolutely do an evaluation to look at what worked, what didn't work and to hold accountable anybody, department, individual, et cetera. >> reporter: a fire victim challenging california's governor. >> why was there no water in the hydrates, governor? will it be different next time? >> it has to be. >> reporter: the damage is incalculable, before and after satellite pictures show the

story. on the malibu coast, a row of multimillion dollar mansions laid to waste, and 40 miles away, this across -- middle- class neighborhood damaged. >> we didn't even know where we were one block from our house. >> tom llamas reporting from the fire zone, let's go out to altadena, california. >> reporter: we continue to see mass destruction, it is really hard to wrap your head around, this is one of many businesses that is destroyed, you can see all of these charred cars that are piled up and just really, as far as you can see in the downtown area, and this is just

part of it because you know there's thousands of homes that have been destroyed. i will point out we are seeing a much heavier police presence this morning trying to get into the fire zone, they continue to try to crack down on these looters, reports of folks coming in and going into these homes, the ones that are still here and i think a big part of this right now that we are looking at is the death toll, we saw overnight it went up to 10. as we have seen in past fires, the campfire, the fire at maui, at this point the law enforcement will bring in cadaver dogs to go through the homes and search for remains and sadly i spoke to a woman who had to evacuate her home, she got out that her grandmother did not want to evacuate and she sadly perished in the fire and i spoke to her yesterday and she talked about the tragedy and trauma of losing someone in that way and just to see the neighborhood

that you live in just reduced to nothing. it looks like a bomb went off, it looks like a war zone, it is not the place that you know and grew up. and as we continue to look at this damage, something else i want to point out, the insurance crisis that is growing, i talked to folks in this community that had their insurance dropped, one couple said it was like a full-time job trying to get new insurance. he cried when he finally got someone to ensure them just last month so they are very lucky but they know many of their neighbors were not so lucky, because insurance companies have been pulling out of this state because of this climate crisis. and on top of that, the housing crisis, so many who live here in california deal with the housing crisis every day, it's one of the worst places for housing in the country, there's thousands of people now without a home, where are they going to go? and what is that going to mean

to rental and home prices in the state for everyone? >> it's the same thing, talking to people i know, now what? do you move, pull your kid out of the schools, there's so much to think about in these moments. these communities are completely burned to the ground but some of these fires are still very much alive and burning, what is your sense talking to firefighters about the status of containment and what they can expect today as the wind picks up again? >> reporter: yes, the wind picking up is obviously not good, continuing the red flag warning, i think it is just going to continue to be a very challenging firefight. i will say from being here in altadena and last night i was at the palisades fire, we are not seeing as much active fires within these areas of the homes as we have been the night before so that is good news, and you know the wind is

picking up, they are not going to be as ferocious as they were the first night, when the fire really raced into malibu, so that is helpful. but also, these firefighters are stretched thin. you heard it from tom, these men and women are working 60 hours, they are stretched thin, but there has been a huge outpour of resource from firefighters across the state coming here to help out but it is a really tough battle. >> incredible work, it is such a daunting task, liz thanks so much. low water pressure making the job of firefighters in southern california that much more difficult, nbc news national correspondent, morgan has more on that part of the story. >> reporter: a relentless firefight far from over, front- line crews facing challenges that only start with the

flames. >> the fire has already burned through here. >> what we are looking at right now could have been caused by a single amber. we added the fire captain in the pacific palisades. where lack of water, critical to battling a still active wildfire frustrating crews, this one from san francisco. >> what should the water pressure be right now ideally? >> 50 to 80 is ideal, i'm between zero and 50, it is not a consistent pressure. >> as water pressure failed, firefighters above switching from offense to defense. >> there's not much we can do, this is our first job of the day. >> reporter: flames burning for precious minutes before any reinforcement could arrive. >> had we had more water early on in the firefight, we could have stopped it from being this

big. >> reporter: when the hydrants are dry, crews have to rely on these tanker trucks because the fire waits for no one. the situation a familiar one for the captain, a 25 year veteran of the l.a. fd. blocks away, another call coming in for another home up in flames. >> if we had any wind right now, completely different firefight? >> completely different, just feet away. >> there's not even a single home from this entire viewpoint that we can see that survived. >> if you had officials in front of you right now, what would you ask for to have had a proper firefight here? >> more hydrants, more air dropping capabilities, we need more of everything. >> reporter: these crews doing whatever they can with whatever they have, fighting a historic disaster head-on. >> we are going to bring in the new yorker, susan glasser, the

former chair of republican national committee, no co-host of the weekend on msnbc, michael steele and host of msnbc, inside with jen psaki , jen psaki . we want to start with these urban wildfires. and that is part of the problem here. i heard mayor karen bass talking about the federal response being immediate and cutting through red tape and getting these houses built back, but does that seem realistic in the grand scheme of things looking at the big picture? >> i think the reality for people to understand, it is going to take a great deal of time so the immediate response means tapping into your resources like getting canada to send planes where they can send water bombers, that is a part of it, it also means

having resources on the ground and numbers to call. but people have lost their homes, their communities, they have nowhere to go, there's temporary fixes but this is going to be a longer-term recovery which i think means it is going to go away into the trump administration, it is going to be on the responsibility of the government in california but patience is not the right word, but we need to keep focused on it for some time beyond the next week. >> so, michael, as an elected official, you look at what has happened here. it seems to me, i lived in pensacola and i was over in louisiana and mississippi for about six weeks, and the first thing you did as he looked at the immediate failure of the government to step in and do

the right thing but as you got further away from it, you understood that new orleans had cut infrastructure, they had taken money that was meant for the levees, they left people who were vulnerable and this was not just on the mayor who did a terrible job, this was on 30 years of mismanagement and when you have urban sprawl going into wildlands, and you add on top of that just years of drought, climate change and then you have at the same time cuts in infrastructure and at the same time, a system, firefighting system that is meant to douse houses in urban centers but not handle wildfires? this is a systemic breakdown over a generation. >> yes, and i know one of the joys of being the one in office at the time is that you are the

one in office at the time, so it is all going to flow -- >> it is not a big joy out there. >> right, mayor karen bass had a moment she was out of town when everything was beginning and did not get to the immediacy of turning back and cutting that trip short. so you have this convergence of the infrastructure issues, the environmental issues, the misunderstanding of what that urban sprawl actually meant to the infrastructures so, as the fire team was noting, well, it's not that the fire hydrants don't have water in them, it's that we can't get water to them. it goes to your point. so, people are sitting here in the moment, what are you doing to contain this, to get control

of it and it has been a political narrative that has not helped, coupled with the trap that is on media, the social media disinformation, that becomes politicized because the leadership in california is democratic, et cetera. right now the focus has got to be on the governor and the mayor, coordinating with as many of the folks on the ground, certainly taking help from canada and other states to get this contained, and then you can do what you are talking about, that deeper dive into how we avoid this in the future because it will happen again. >> you look at these pictures and you are thinking, this is one of the wealthiest cities in the world and yet, they don't have basic infrastructure to protect people? >> they took it for granted, it is needed. >> and it is so much like what happened with katrina, katrina

was not -- you know, mississippi got leveled, that was a hurricane event, new orleans suffered because of gross mismanagement. and i don't know how we don't see how this doesn't end up being 30 years of gross mismanagement. but there's more, two things going on. new york times this morning quotes greg pierce, from ucla, who echoed concerns over water systems that were designed for urban fires, not fast-moving wildfires, but we designed the water systems to be enormously expensive, a more fundamental question. and this goes to building in flood zones in the state of florida, this goes to allow we -- allowing building in the ninth ward in new orleans, under sea level, a more fundamental question is whether it is a good idea to rebuild neighborhoods adjacent to

wildlands, an issue that has been debated across the west, as climate change increases the frequency and intensity of fires, what is known as the wildland urban interface. we have urban sprawl going into areas that again, just like building on beaches in florida. you are just asking for trouble. >> and rebuilding in these places is a really bad idea, i think that is what that gentleman means. >> unless you wanted to happen again. >> but can we be confident that they are not going to rebuild in these areas, these are powerful and political interests, they have a lot of political power, rich people who want those views and why wouldn't they? so, they are probably going to win this debate and they're probably going to build again, unless there are some really forward thinking people who really get serious and put their heads together and come

up with a real plan. the other point real quickly, every time one of these things happens, a flood in an urban area or anything like that, we get stories that the pipes are 100 years old. every single time, every city i can ever think of, let's replace them. >> by the way, drive around new york city, every infrastructure project seems to have been built in the great depression, are we really depending our greatest cities on the infrastructure that is 80 to 100 years old? it's really crazy, and susan, again, they can rebuild in these areas if they want to, the question now for los angeles is the same question that people are asking in florida, how am i going to build a new house in florida when i'm not going to be able to get insurance? >> that's right, and by the way, it was already a huge

crisis in california even before this with insurance, home insurance, people were reporting huge difficulties getting it, so there's the question of the livability of this metropolis that has outgrown all of its structures and systems that included the physical systems we are seeing right now but also the political legal infrastructure of the place is straining. but, it is also an ongoing crisis and it is very hard in the middle of trauma to make these long-term, sensible decisions because it is ringing the city and i have to say, i have two siblings living in los angeles. every single person is affected because you don't know where it is coming and how quickly. the preschool that my nephews went to burned to the ground, and the neighborhood where luckily my sister doesn't live anymore, but they are sitting in pasadena wondering if they have to leave and what to pack,

in that situation it is very hard to make a long-term decision about what we should build back and what are the hollywood stars going to do when their mansions are gone? >> the reality, how do you then raise the money necessary to address that 120-year-old infrastructure? because now in a place like l.a., you are talking billions of dollars to do that and that means, are the citizens more prepared to pay more taxes? but the point is, everyone wants the government to fix the problem but, they don't really want to address how the government has to fix the problem. both in terms of okay, the government decides, we are not allowing building beyond this perimeter because of the very thing you set up in the story.

and secondly, if we are going to deal with this broken infrastructure that is not just in california, can we talk washington, d.c.? can we talk the fact that in northern virginia, the pipes broke because of the cold weather this past week? every urban community has the same infrastructure question and as we go forward with climate change squeezing in on us, now you have a balance of how you are going to pay for all the things you say we need because if you're not willing to put the cash in place to do it, then 15 minutes from now, guess what, it is going to cost you more when it happens again. >> still ahead, we are going to the courthouse in lower manhattan where this morning's sentencing hearing will take place and president-elect trump's criminal hush money case. before we go to the break, willie, you sat down with jimmy fallon, how did it go? >> yes, i went upstairs, it is a nice commute, you go up a few

floors and you go see jimmy, we talked about jimmy carter's funeral, but always fun to see jimmy and we talked about my interview this weekend on sunday today which will be olivia benson herself, a great conversation, believe it or not, and their 26 season, the longest-running drama in american television, she talks about handing that role that has changed her life, the evolution of the character and how it served as such an inspiration for so many people, so many victims out there and she joined this foundation for the last 20 years that has served victims like the ones you see on the show, so great conversation with mariska hargitay coming up this sunday over on nbc. on nbc. .out of ctu. now... ...there's skyrizi. ♪i've got places to go...♪ ♪...and i'm feeling free♪ ♪control of my symptoms means everything...♪ ♪...to me♪

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- getting my high school diploma made me feel like i can do anything. now i can help the kids in my community achieve their dreams. - when you graduate, they graduate. visit finishyourdiploma.org to find free and supportive adult education centers near you. >> just think about the history, trump tried to put her in prison, accused him of murder, said he was the secret muslim founder of isis, said she was pretending to be black and in his entire family dynasty, almost got him murdered, try to overthrow his presidency and paid off a star behind her back. >> well, there's that. okay, that is the chart, and

yet it is important to be civil, president biden gave the eulogy for jimmy carter, focusing on his character, he used the word to describe the 39th president nearly a dozen times in 10 minutes, president biden also drew a clear contrast between carter's values and the current political climate. >> jimmy carter's friendship taught me, and through his life, taught me the strength of character is more than our title or the power we hold, it's the strength to understand that everyone should be treated with dignity, respect. that everyone, and i mean everyone deserves an even shot. you know, we have an obligation

to give hate no safe harbor and to stand up to my dad, to say the greatest sin of all is the abuse of power, that is not about being perfect, because none of us are perfect, we are all fallible. it is not about asking ourselves, while we are striving to do the right things, what are the values that animate our spirit? >> let's bring in msnbc political analyst, also the publisher for the newsletter, the ink, here is of course the front of the washington post talking about a farewell to the 39th president, you can see the president and first lady saying

farewell there. and, it is very interesting, and of all these interpretations of what is going on in the first couple of rows, most people talking about bush as he walked past but also barack obama and donald trump talking for some time, the question is, as we move past trying to guess what people were saying or thinking, is the funeral and legacy of this 100- year-old man who had one person after another come up and talk about the greatness of the man, and as mika said and i think it is so important, sometimes you might go to funerals or services where people might say something, well, maybe, we

don't have to oversell it. there was no overselling yesterday and the fact of what i said yesterday, when andrew young talked about jimmy carter the complicated politician early on who had to figure out a way to be friends to not only civil rights leaders but segregationists as he was moving forward, trying to create a new south. >> yeah, you know i was born in the year he stepped down from office, so hearing this testimony yesterday was hearing about a time i didn't live through the experience firsthand and it felt like a biopsy of another america. >> by the way, you are way too young to be on this show. i just got my aarp card. go ahead. >> my hair is 85 years old. >> but, your hair is perfect.

>> i average out to about 63 between me and my hair. so, it felt like a biopsy of another america that is not contemporary. you know, the stories of gerald ford and carter and the friendship that developed after political competition, again, didn't feel like the wrong story, it felt like a real story of real relationships across political fields. even the notion of how the carter's lived after the presidency, it is now normal that all of our presidents become multi-gazillionaires, but we don't see those videos anymore, we see videos of

president carter coming back to his seat and shaking everybody's hand, it was just watching this washington power establishment in the room and this person who is completely different from that power establishment, who in many ways lived a life on very different values, and i will say also just the fear of the former presidents with president trump, there was something strange. i'm with mika, i think civility and kindness is important and there was something strange about seeing multiple leaders who have warned that this guy is dictatorship on the horizon, fascism on the horizon, the end of the american experiment, and now just because of the rituals of the funeral, it is normalized by default, we are just sitting there, like i guess we are just sitting and making small talk with the guy who we have said is going to end

everything. it's very strange, i'm not sure what the alternative is but it was a surreal moment for that and other reasons. >> and by the way, you are not just sitting talking to the guy who said all of those things during the campaign, you are sitting there talking to a guy who 77-78 million americans said they wanted him to be the next president, the representative of the american people who voted for him, that is who you are sitting next to and when barack obama was talking to donald trump and being civil and they were going back and forth, that is again, andrew young's story cuts to that, you don't just talk to people with whom you agree and you don't just talk to people with whom you find morally aligned with you, you talk to people who you have gotten into

terrible political fights with and that is what carter was about. and yes, i know it's not the same thing, blah, blah, blah, but that is the message i think barack obama was sending. >> this is the thing watching that, which i think was uncomfortable for some people to watch understandably because it is complicated, he has been very quiet since the election, purposefully. i don't expect him to say much in this moment but i do think if there is a moment where he thinks warrants speaking out, he will do it and i know this because we talked about this a lot when i was working with him before trump was elected the first time and this is the struggle every president has. do i inject, do i remove myself from public life, or do i wait for the moment?

it is not really where that has been questioned or an issue where former presidents had to think about that. bush made clear what his views were when he walked by trump, i'm not sure to an honest point what the right approach is that i would just say yes it was strange but also i think trump isn't president yet, i think in some ways, behaving like that at a funeral is the right thing, let's not make it about them but it doesn't mean that obama and others aren't going to speak out. >> it does underscore the question of who is going to lead at this moment, and i think that is where a lot of people who are very concerned about trump's return to office, that is the question that they are having. it's not so much about being civil at a funeral, and i was there yesterday and believe me, every single eye on the room was trained on that spectacle,

but the broader question for the millions of americans who didn't support trump is what is happening to our leadership coming have president biden exiting the stage in a very painful and awkward way, let's be real about that. it is painful to watch joe biden just this week, in his only exit interview he has given so far, what did he say? he said he wasn't sure if he could have even made it through the second term, so obviously biden is not going to be there as a leader. you have the question, what is the role of barack obama, what are those senders going to do? >> we will see what kamala harris does, we don't know, it is probably not any of the people at the funeral, this is very uncomfortable for the democratic party when there is not a clear person leading but it is also an opportunity because organically, somebody is going to emerge. maybe it is somebody we don't know who it is.

>> and i know this may sound radical for some people out there, but actually, if you sit there and you talk to somebody, and you are civil to somebody, it is all part of the same thing. when he wants to speak out, does he have a better chance to pick up the phone and call on a personal level and say, i have a real problem with this, let me tell you why this is going to blow up in your face and the blowback is not going to be worth it because i know, i sat there. >> that works if joe biden is calling george bush, or george bush is calling barack obama. that whole thing yesterday was illustrative of how that group of former presidents look at one of their own, okay. that to me is the thing about yesterday. how they look at him.

so, i agree with you, joe, the whole civil thing works but you know, civility is a two-way street, we all know that. let's just see what the civility is coming the other way because i bet you it isn't, and that is going to be a test of this administration out of the gate with those former presidents sitting there, if you want their advice and you seek their advice, then that is an open door to civility but, if there's no inclination from you that you care for their advice, that you want their advice and in fact, you think they are a pos, then i don't know where this civility thing is going to get off the ground. >> there were a lot of different reactions yesterday including karen pence, where there was an effort to hang him

at the riot, at the capital and she had her own reaction that was different from others. i don't think any of them are necessarily wrong. donald trump talked about his interaction with former president barack obama. let's listen to that. take a look. >> what were you talking to barack obama about? >> it did look very friendly, i must say. i didn't realize how friendly it looked, i saw it on your wonderful network, just a little while ago before i came in and i said, boy, they look like two people that like each other and we probably do, we have little different philosophies, i don't know, we got along. but i get along with just about everybody, we met backstage before we went on and i thought it was a beautiful service but we all got along very well, which is good.

>> so, this is a great conversation because i also think it is similar, not the same, similar to the conversation that was had after we had a meeting with trump and a lot of people said you said all these things about him and then you met him. yes and yes. two things can be true at the same time and you still can be very concerned about the things that you have actually voiced and i think that you should never stop trying for civility and progress, and i think there needs to be some sort of reset to figure this out because i know we are going to get to anna in just a moment, but he wrote a great piece last week about let's put the media in one category, democrats in another but the reaction to trump, the resistance. all these things that didn't work, there has to be a level of acceptance here that he is the incoming president of the united states. do journalists not talk to him?

that doesn't work. how do you cover someone if you can't talk to them? >> a guy that represents 78 million people, and again, two things can be true at one time. his language during the campaign, we were quite explicit on what we thought about that, we went further than most people thinking it was violent, dangerous, fascist, 78 million americans disagreed with that. i'm not saying that solves him of anything, all i'm saying is this is a president for the next four years. well, hold on, i'm going to michael first. you have already said something. i will come back to you. i've been trying to get over to michael for 30 minutes now. so, your second bite at the apple. >> but you know again, this has happened before, not as bad as trump but you go back, for

instance, the civil rights movement and there were people that again, dealt with the worst of segregationists, trying to move forward. you go back to abraham lincoln, from 1834, to write before the emancipation proclamation, in 1863, he was constantly going back and forth. not beating his chest in the illinois state legislature and blowing himself up politically but continuing to where it was a 30 year project. politics, often it is a game of inches and often dealing with people with whom you deeply disagree with and i'm just not ready to judge anybody for what they did whether it was barack obama or karen pence. >> that is fair enough, i broadly agree with that but i do think that trump is in a somewhat different category

from all the rest of them, he doesn't really share a commitment, as we understand it broadly, to what we think every other democratic and republican president and high official has share to a certain set of constitutional -- >> we all agree with that. >> but, let's see if civility and reciprocity work in two directions. >> guess what, it is not going to work that way, so when michael said what he said, of course it is not going to work in that way. the question is, how do you get an inch, how do you gain an inch or two inches or three inches when people like me believe american democracy hangs in the balance, right? >> i agree with that and you can get an inch by playing a smart inside game, no question about that. but, somebody, to susan's point earlier, when talking about the democrats and it's not going to

be barack obama, it has to be somebody that represents the future, somebody will have to step up and fill the role and they will have to play a smart inside and outside game and emerge as a democratic leader. but, they were respectful of the presidency. >> it is tough. >> let's go to adam. adam, you wrote an extraordinary article talking about how democrats need to rethink the way they approach, the resistance of how to live under trump two, i think it is extraordinarily important, looking under the lens of that and what you have written, what are your thoughts this morning on this discussion? >> i think we live in an age of proxy fights where there's a lot of things we can change so we go after the things we feel

we can attack, i feel this conversation, it is a proxy fight, people can grab onto that. there was a lot of angst online about obama talking to him and i agree with you, i can talk to anybody, i'm a journalist. if kim jong un had a birthday party and i could be a fly on the wall, i would go. >> you did that with modi, and that was deeply uncomfortable to you. >> and i spoke to him in a way he has not been spoken to in his life, in front of president biden and the first lady and asked him to ensure that india would always be a country for all people, not just hindus, you have to be in the room to say that. that said, i think we need to understand, what are the emotional undercurrents of the country that make people so angry about this stuff?

and i think it is a little bit different, that people feel so profoundly undefended right now against this and i think people might be wrong to pick the proxy fight as obama should not laugh at a joke but i thing we need to take seriously the emotion of feeling undefended, susan's point about there being a leaderless opposition to what people are saying is a fascist movement, and the sense of being undefended is true, it is valid. this administration, rightly warned throughout the last year that donald trump represented the singular authoritarian threat to america. have we been provided by this white house any practical guidance for how to live under what it claimed was fascism around the corner? has there been guidance about what to do with your data, what you need to do if you need to protect you marriage and what might happen to it under the new supreme court? there is this feeling that i'm being warned and told that the

apocalypse is near, but in a way, i'm not defended by anybody and i think that emotion will run wild through all kinds of places and it may come for you all, but the thing to pay attention to is people feeling undefended, people feeling unlimited by anyone in a pro-democracy movement in this country. >> on both sides. >> the thing to remember is, this happens after just about every presidential election, every wipeout, this happened after 64 republicans got wiped out. this happened after 82, 84, and again, not saying that donald trump is the same as all those others, i'm saying we are right now in a vacuum with the democratic party waiting for a leader to emerge and tell them, we are going to get through this, it is going to be okay, this is where we need to go.

that takes a while. i saw that personally when in 94, republicans shocked everybody, took over the house, democrats were dazed and confused for about three months. in fact, i went to some of my democratic friends and i said, you've got nothing? come on, give us a fight here. they found it, bill clinton got re-elected and they found it. thank you so much for being with us and contribute, please come back if you can, we want to keep this conversation going. >> there we go. so, michael, you want a footnote here. you feel at this point when we are talking about everybody saying they are catastrophize and it is the end of democracy, we have issued those warnings during the campaign.

i just want to say, we need to have some caveats here, and i want to say, yesterday the united states supreme court ruled in a way that donald trump, for very deeply personal reasons did not want them to rule, and amy coney barrett, the same person that had a concurrence that separated herself from the immunity ruling was the difference in that 5-4 ruling, yesterday, the most conservative judicial circuit in america dealt donald trump another blow. a pushback, checks and balances, two weeks ago, 38 conservatives who elon musk said he was going to personally destroy their political careers said elon, go pound sand, they voted against him. what will senators do, they said matt gaetz was not acceptable, will they say that pete hegseth, who is deeply

unqualified for this position is not acceptable. that is the next big test, but as we move along, it is important for people to say, this is what the 11th circuit did yesterday, it looks like what they've been doing for the past eight years. >> so, the 11th circuit had slept out eileen cannon before, because it is just bogus rulings on her part and they are going to honor that. that judicial responsibility. the supreme court decision yesterday, okay, but i don't see the supreme court addressing the fact that one of these justices had an improper conversation. >> i'm not saying we are walking in a winter wonderland. >> joe, you had your moment, let me just finish my point. i get that, but i'm telling you something you seem to forget.

so, let me make my point, you may not like it but i'm going to make it and the reality of it is, i take your civility argument, you like to say 78 million people voted for donald trump, well 82 million people voted for joe biden and he didn't get that civility you're talking about from donald trump in those four years, so now the expectation is, because he has won again and he's got 70 million people, we all have to be civil to donald trump. well okay, i'm prepared to be civil. >> i didn't say everybody has to be civil. >> but the reality is, no, you are usinterm civil, i'm using your term, you put civility on the table. >> and you said we all want to be civil, that is what you have to have. >> but, joe, i'm just saying --

fine, i'm not talking about that, my main point is, everybody is looking at this from a one-way perspective, how we need to approach donald trump, how is he approaching us? the man wants to lock up citizens, the man wants to turn the government against them, how are we supposed to respond to that, are we supposed to be civil? >> michael, doesn't look like we don't know that? why do you feel the need to create false choices? you have created -- >> i'm saying, you put civility on the table. >> you took me saying that it is not the end of the world that barack obama smiled and talked to donald trump and you are turning that into -- you will play blue skies, congratulations. >> i'm just saying, i'm just --

i don't have a particular, i'm talking to the american people like you are, i'm using the words, you used, i'm not twisting your words, let me untwist them, civility is a two- way street as i said at the very beginning, but you attacked that. >> i did not, michael. >> you did. so we can look at the tape, but the reality of it is, my general point, joe, is that civility is a two-way street, if you want to put civility on the table, i'm with you, i'm down with that. what we witnessed yesterday was five presidents sitting at the funeral of a former president, it is a civil american moment and it is an important one. and the politics and the funny moments that occur, those are great. but, next week, we start a new regime, we start a new direction and everybody wants to behave a certain way in this new era and i'm more than willing to do that, whatever it

is. if it is civility, if it is accommodations of donald trump, as we see corporate america doing, if it is bending the needs, whatever it is. >> does anybody here think we should accommodate donald trump when he violates political norms, democratic norms? >> he loves this conversation, because the point -- >> but we don't need to have it. >> but do we need to have a fight about barack obama and civility? i take your point, and what michael is trying to do, and maybe there are no answers to this, which is, what does the nature of standing up to the rules and the norms and the people who are going to be affected by this, what does that look like? it has not taken shape yet, i take your point that there is a long history of parties going

into internal reckoning after a defeat like this, but i will tell you, having lived in russia in the first few years after vladimir putin took power, the question, the debates among those who sought to oppose him, they benefited him. because they took their own fight over there version of civility much more seriously than they took the serious structural changes that were taking place in russia that led to the end of russia's democracy. >> the changes happening right now, this is again something we understand deeply and it's not just a threat on democracy, it is a threat on capitalism, it is dozens of billionaires consolidating power, it looks like a plutocracy, wait, we understand this. everybody understands this, and nobody is saying be civil in the face, or being compliant. or to be mark zuckerberg, nobody is saying that, again,

the fact that i just talked about, it might not be a bad thing that barack obama was polite and suddenly this is me saying everybody must be civil and compliant? that is a false choice, that is a false barrier. >> that's fine, but susan used to phrase like the people who were going to be affected here. that is where my head is, that is where my head is and that is where the new republicans are, the millions of americans that are scared for good reason. and that is who we have to worry about. worr y about. >> the american public is not waiting for someone to lead them out of fascism. that's not what the american public sent us a message about. they're waiting for people to listen to them and actually engage with them in their communities about what they want

from the government. part of the challenge here is continuing to have the conversation in a way that's academic and ivory tower and not what people are dealing with. that, to me, is a big part of the ioutcome and why trump connected in a weird way and why we need to change what we do and not talk about leading people out of fascism. >> pulling to big picture, you are both right in your own way. we have to move forward. jen, you t down with justin trudeau. this is for your show this sunday. >> this sunday.is they called me yesterday morning on my way to drop my kids off for a school delay and asked if i could interview the prime minister w of canada. you always say yes. that's the history. i talked with him about everything from trump calling him the 51st governor, how did he feel about that? what was he going to do about tariffs. here is a clip.

i'm assuming he didn't bring up his intention to publicly say he was going to annex through economic your means? >> it sort of came up at one point. we started musing back and forth about this. when i started to suggest, well, maybe there could be a trade for vermont or california for certain parts, he immediately decided that it was not that funny anymore. we moved on to a different conversation. >> jen, thank you so much. watch her full interview with justin trudeau this sunday at noon eastern on msnbc. michael steele, that was quite an asterisk. we will be watching "the weekend" saturdays and sunday at 8:00 a.m. on msnbc. susan glaser, thank you as well. michael, thank you as well.

>> who called notre dame a few weeks ago. you were right. >> i think the train ends here. back to breaking news. we continue coverage of the wildfires in southern california and the impact they are having not only on the economy but also econ the insurance industry. the third hour of "morning joe" continues right now. >> came back this morning and gone. just absolute -- the further you go up, it's just an absolute wasteland. just stunned, shocked, speechless. >> these items weren't in the apartment. they were in the parking area. what were you able to grab from the apartment, if anything? >> we weren't able to grab anything. everything is burnt to the ground. this is the only thing we could manage to find. >> i've never seen nothing like this before, from the smell to

even how the sun is red. it's the worst thing i have seen. looked like a bomb went off over here. that's the only way i could describe it. >> more stories from survivors of the wildfires in southern california. we will bring you a live report from one of the hardest hit areas as well as the latest forecast ahead right here on "morning joe." good morning and welcome. it's friday, january 10th. along with joe, willie and me, we have jonathan lemire, eugene robinson is with us, elizabeth miller is with us as well as ie ie i'll a -- alamany is

here. >> the hellscape in los angeles. because of the proximity of where i lived in pensacola, florida, i was in louisiana and mississippi every day after katrina. there are a lot of parallels. we don't know the exact causes for the complete failure of government to be able to protect these homes. we don't know what it is. i do think it's going to be like hurricane katrina. infrastructure has been slashedr you can't just say it's karen bass. you can't say it's gavin newsom. infrastructure has been slashed across america. you have climate change. you have wildfires sweeping into

urban areas. they are fighting the last war. the more i think about how new orleans didn't invest in the levee system, they didn't invest in critical infrastructure, and people died because of it. it's hard to hear people say, one of the richest cities in the world, that we just -- we don't have enough water to protect people's homes.ha >> yeah. the system is designed to fight a o big fire. it's just not designed to fight what happened. which is not entirely unexpectable because of climate change and because of the way the weather patterns have gone the last couple years. you fight a fire that huge from the air.ge you've got to get your choppers and planes up dropping water on

something that big. they couldn't get the planes up because of the high winds. should there be a more robust infrastructure? should there have been more than 3 million gallon tanks up on pacific -- which is what there was. they were full. yet, that was not nearly enough. >> the question really answers itself. they should have had more. elizabeth, there are parallels also with what's happening in los angeles right now where you have people moving into areas where wildfires spread. it's not like urban fires. as homes, communities, buildings move into these areas that are going to have historically been swept by wildfires, it reminds me of what's happening in florida with hurricanes. insurance companies are starting

to say, we can't insure your homes anymore, because they're in flood zones. it does -- >> climate change is a huge factor. it's been happening in other parts of the world. we've been doing stories about islands disappearing. i remember editing a story years ago about miami being under water even at low tide. it has become much more of a catastrophe and in the united states. ini think in los angeles, it's t quite a failure of imagination, but i don't think anyone imagined there would be these wildfires in such an urban area. it was in the far reaches of california. >> right. >> not in pacific palisades, not in the hollywood hills.he the thinking was -- >> forest fires. >> right. managing a forest fire in pacific palisades. >> willie, again, it's a couple of things happening. you have urban sprawl where

people are moving neighborhoods out to places where they never were before. areas where you have more wildfires and urban fires. then you have climate change. you have the dry weather. with all of that, you have a community, i guess, a municipality that did not keep up with the realities of those dramatic, radical changes. just like the 9th ward in new orleans, this should be a wake-up call, very late, but a wake-up call, not only to los angeles and california, but to politicians, local, state politicians across america, that you have to fight the new battle. with urban sprawl, with climate change, with people moving into flood zones, with people moving into zones where there are wildfires, something is going to

give. it happened in katrina. it's happened here.at >> yeah. there's a great piece this morning in "the l.a. times" that explains how the water systems are set up in los angeles county, where they are able to deliver water, where they are not. what they are designed to do, fight a small house fire in one residential area, knock that down very quickly. even the firefighters themselves and the officials who run the water system say there's no water system. we could have done better and hope to do better in the futureb there's no water system that could have controlled this because of the way the fire was spreading with the winds, which is to say, it's not just the santa ana wind that was driving it in a predictable direction, but these wind gusts, hurricane wind gusts blowing in different directions from moment to moment and shooting the embers sometimes miles ahead of the fire meand starting another fir in a direction they couldn't have predicted. it is truly the worst case scenario. truly apocalyptic. a lot of questions will be asked about what qcan be done better

next time. the wind gusts -- we will talk to angie in a second. it will be a difficult day fighting the fires today.fi as of this morning, at least ten people have died. officials think that number will go ciup as they get around the neighborhoods. 180,000 people now have been forced to evacuate. flames have burned over 30,000 acres. that's about twice the size of manhattan. five major fires have broken out this week with two of the most severe at just 6% and 0% ancontained respectively as we t here on friday. the newest fire, kenneth, began last night. the ventura county fire department says it has been able to stop the forward progress of that fire.th winds eased yesterday. they are, as i said, expected to intensify and last through today, which only helps to spread these fires further. the wildfires are expected to be the costliest in u.s. history

with losses estimated around $50 billion. that's according to jp morgan. m joining us live from altadena, california, correspondent dana griffin. good morning to you today. what are you seeing since we saw you 24 hours ago? >> reporter: willie, good morning. we r:are seeing a noticeably different law enforcement presence here. we are noticing these black and nwhite patrol vehicles. they have red and blue lights flashing. we are noticing this at almost every corner in the evacuation zone. you can see the lights here. this was not the scene, as you mentioned, yesterday morning, because they kind of had a more d open area. we saw several people able to walk into the evacuation zone. that's why they decided to bring in the california national guard. you can see we have got one hummer right here. there's also a guardsman standing watch there. g there are a few more in the

vehicle here. they deployed resources because there have been dpeople arrest who have gotten into that evacuation zone. several people have been arrested for looting. that's why there's a curfew in effect from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., and they want to make it clear, only first responders, media are allowed in the area. they want to keep people out to protect the properties standing. they can focus resources on the firefighting effort. the new fire that broke out last night.e luckily progress there. here in altadena, 13,000 plus acres have burned. there are ten fatality reports, that the medical examiner is going to have to work through. it's a challenge, because the medical examiner hasn't been able to go to some of the locations because of the safety concerns and the firefighting efforts. some of those remains are exactly where they are at this point. it's been an emotional week for several people returning home.

people still cannot wrap their heads around what has happened to this community here in altadena, where the eato n fire burned. crews are getting out of their vehicles. they are checking licenses and making sure people who are entering this area are the people that need to be here. we are noticing, like i mentioned, a huge, huge law enforcement presence. >> dana, what are you hearing about the firefighting efforts? it's extraordinary to be here on friday morning now, all these days later, saying one of the fires is 0% contained, one is 5% contained. does cal fire -- do the firefighters feel like at some point they will begin to get their arms around these flames? >> reporter: absolutely. i think they feel that they are making some forward progress.

when you hear those numbers, 0%, 6%, people think that that's a really low number. when you start to get containment numbers, it's actually a really good sign. it's not reflective of the level of flames or the out of controlness of those flames.ro it means the line that they have around the fire so that it can burn itself out. when we start to see the containment numbers and those -- the acreage not move as much, that's the indication that we have that, okay, they are making y forward progress. we do still have the threat of the santa ana winds. where we are, we are not experiencing gusts we felt 48 hours prior.pr that is also going to be some relief for the firefighting efforts. i got to mention that there has been some things that have hurt their effort like the drone that crashed into e a firefighting aircraft. that aircraft cannot go up. they are telling people, do not put drones up in these areas.

>> dana griffin live from altadena, california. if you look at the drone pictures, it's just been wiped out. all that's left are chimneys in many cases. let's talk about the winds in southern california. >> we saw some improvement yesterday with the winds. as expected. as we went into the overnight hours, we saw those ramp up. that's what we will set the stage for and what firefighters are dealing with for the first half of today. this is going to be a situation in flux with the winds. we have multiple changes when it comes to the santa ana winds as we move forward into next week. it's no surprise we have all the ingredients to prompt the red flag warnings. this is at least through tonight. i wouldn't be surprised if they blast into tomorrow. today, the santa ana winds gusting 60 miles per hour. as expected, we saw a slight uptick in our humidity levels. nothing too impressive. a couple of percentage points

are going leto help regard to the firefighting efforts there. we have 5% to 15% humidity levels. take a look at where the five fires are when it comes to what we are watching with wind speeds. 70 mile per hour wind speeds close to this fire. this is what we see in the hills, mountains, 50 plus mile per hour wind speeds. gusts across that region through at least the first half of today. closer to the coast, 20, 30, even 40 mile per hour winds are possible. look what happens as we go forward in time to the later parts of today. these subside. we're not looking at a lot of folks in double digits at this point. this is 6:00 p.m. tonight pacific time..m the strongest winds will decrease by the second half of the day. unfortunately, we have another couple of rounds of the santa dsana winds that we will see ta shape here as we get into next week. we have this high pressure that's been sitting over basically n the great basin for couple of days. this is one of the things that influenced the winds. this is going to kick out.

look what happens tonight and tomorrow. we see this next high pressure system work into the pacific northwest. it sets up right in that same place as we get into early next week. this means, again, we will have some weakening of the winds as we get through the weekend. t there will be windows of the weaker conditions for ti firefighters. as we get into next week, the conditions are still going to ramp up. unfortunately, no rain in the forecast. i want to say, this is a rare event to see these setups in the upper levels of the atmosphere for this time period. this is more common in fall. the state of california ramps up during that time frame of the versus this time of the year. this is more of the wet season. but today we have areas under the critical risk. we will keep an eye on that through the entirety of today and into the weekend and next week. >> we hope the firefighters get help, a break in the wintd ds. thanks so much.

coming up, our next guest ran florida's emergency management office before his election to congress. house democrat jared moskowitz weights in on the government's role on dealing with disaster straight ahead on "morning joe." " dear doctor k, i used to think i was never meant to be beautiful. i was teased because of my teeth. i didn't like the person looking back at me in the mirror. i never thought i could afford dental implants. you and your team work within my budget and helped me feel confident in the plan we made together. i love my new smile. thank you. congratulations. you have a beautiful soul, cynthia. finance the smile you want for as low as one forty eight a month per arch. schedule a free consultation.

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protocol intended to prevent its equipment from igniting e ing b according to "the wall street journal." they have not developed a plan to proactively shut off parts of its system during wind storms to reduce the risk of sparks from its power lines, regulatory filings show this. other california utilities do so periodically when fire risk is high. as dangerous winds threaten to buffett los angeles, the los angeles department of water and power system remained energized until the wind storm caused significant damage and knocked out power for tens of thousands of customers. the paper notes that the causes of the wildfires remain under investigation, including whether power lines played any role. a spokesman for the department said it has other safety measures in place. power lines in california have ignited some of the nation's most deadly and destructive fires.

then there's water. the water systems, the firefighters rely upon, are antiquated and unreliable. "the new york times" reporting this morning that officials say storage tanks that hold water for high elevation areas and the pumping systems that feed them cannot keep pace with the demand. that was in part because those who designed the system did not account for the stunning speeds at which multiple fires would race through the los angeles area this week. we are looking at a situation that is just completely not part of any domestic water system design, said marty adams, a chief engineer at the los angeles department of water and power, which is responsible for delivering water to nearly 4 million residents of los angeles. if this is going to be a norm, there's going new thinking about ed, he said. los angeles city council member

tastrophes waiting to happen everywhere with our water mains. adding some were a century old. >> again, frank, people are saying, well, climate change is causing catastrophes the likes of which we have never seen. yes, part of that is true. the other part of it is that 50 years ago, let's just take the state of florida, a lot of people were not building in the flood zones that they are building right now. they weren't building homes on top of the gulf of america -- what do we call the atlantic ocean now? trump pond. people weren't building in flood zones. they are now. here is a great quote from "the times," this greg pierce talking about it, saying the same thing. these water systems weren't

designed for urban fires. or were designed for urban fires, not fast moving fires. a more fundamental question is whether it's a good idea to rebuild neighborhoods adjacent to wildlands, an issue broadly debated across the west as climate change increases the frequency and intensity of fires on what is known as the wildland urban interface. the same debate we had after katrina about ward 9. why are you building in an area that is under sea level? the same question we're having in florida where insurance companies are going, no, we're out of here. we're not going to insure your homes anymore. >> you have gone to the moral hazard problem. >> that's what i was trying to do. >> i noticed that.

i said, joe is in a moral hazard mood. you have a city -- >> that takes me back. >> you have a city like los angeles that is fundamentally unaffordable to a large part of its population. it has a housing crisis. part of the reason why it has so many homeless there. it expands outward. it has always expanded outward. that's the nature of a place like los angeles. >> into wildlands. >> when people buy property, they're not thinking, i'm about to get incinerated. they're thinking, i found a place where i can have a backyard and i can afford to live there. just as we think about this more globally, as you are going with it, we have invested so much in climate prevention -- the prevention of climate change, but we have arrived at a place where we are in a new chapter in the history of this problem,

which is that we also need to invest significantly in mitigation. it can't just be on local and state governments to deal with this. when the crises smack these places, they are of such a scale that it taxes their ability to think. it taxes their ability to spend sufficiently. it taxes clearly the actual manpower and resources that they have. >> they're dealing with the immediate problem. our next guest is among those who lost their home in the california wildfires. 15-time oscar nominated songwriter diane warren is here to talk about that. her new documentary when "morning joe" comes right back. k

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today i'm announcing the federal government will cover 100% of the cost for 180 days. it will pay for debris and

hazard material movie, temporar salaries. i want to underscore, i told the governor, spare no expense to do what they need to do to contain these fires in their communities that have been devastating. we are with you. we're not going anywhere. the firefighters and first responders, you are heroes. >> it's very interesting that a lot of people are saying, republicans, donald trump, they have always trashed california, they're not going to step in now. not to be crass and talk about politics, but since that's going to determine how much support california gets, we need to talk about politics. the fact is, changes in california's voting patterns over the last two to four years are in large part why republicans control the house of representatives. i'm not so sure they can have a

hands off approach to california. look at the gains republicans made in california and new york. that changes the outlook. it's i suspect you have republicans saying, we need to go in and help. >> i think you are right. right now it's not just elon musk and donald trump that are criticizing the emergency preparedness or lack thereof in the city. especially the stage is ripe for this conversation because the former mayoral candidate is one of the most prominent property developers in the area. rick caruso's luxury in development, is an area that's so densely populated. it's unfathomable the damage that's happened right now.

you are seeing hollywood stars, activists, the likes asking california and los angeles specifically, one of the most progressive cities in the country, to rethink policies they have implemented and a lot of the dysfunction that people have been criticizing with regards to homelessness and other less urgent situations and to try to course correct. i think at the end of the day, this is a lesson in over development in places that should not be over developed. >> the question is what to do about that moving forward. mayor karen bass was in her news conference yesterday talking about immediately rebuilding. jonathan lemire, cutting through red tape and getting people back in homes. talk about the federal response. we will talk about the reality of that. >> it's going to be a lengthy and very expensive process to rebuild these neighborhoods.

some iconic and deeply affluent neighborhoods of los angeles. president biden said yesterday the federal government will do their part in stepping up. he is saying the federal government will pick up the entire cost, 100% disaster response coverage over the next 180 days which is an increase from the current 75%. that's what's normally allotted for a response like this. more than what governor newsom requested. he requested 90%. president biden said, we're ll 100%. he will make an appeal for a supplemental. that's where things get tricky. republicans have both the house and the senate. they are about to have the white house in ten days. donald trump's inauguration is exactly ten days from today. president biden had been in southern california for a few days, as the fires ignited. he was there on unrelated events. he canceled what was his last foreign trip. he was supposed to be in rome today meeting with the pope. no longer is.

so he can maintain the federal response. vice president harris, whose home there was very close to some of the fires. she also canceled what was supposed to be her last foreign trip. she had a couple of stops to make in asia and then europe. that likely now won't happen either because she's also -- she wants to be part of the federal response here, one that hits very close to home and to her heart, as she said, yesterday. mika, the federal government is stepping up. this is a long way to go before the fires are contained. we will see what happens. a live report from outside the new york city courthouse where president-elect donald trump is set to be sentenced today on criminal charges. the latest from lower manhattan straight ahead on "morning joe." "

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a solemn occasion, why

george w. bush greeted his successor like this. belly bonk. what's up? what's up? what's up 44? yeah. you are lucky it's a funeral or that would have been a sack tap. >> people are talking about the greeting george w. bush gave barack obama. >> live coverage. >> there you go. >> what's up? >> it's funny greeting someone at a state funeral like he is your bro like i finished a keg stand. your turn, bro. >> there were a lot of reactions people were talking about. they are talking about president obama and president trump talking. of course, where are the bill o'reilly lip readers? >> you can't tell what was really going on there.

things might have happened back before they came out. >> they were in a holding room before. we will find out three or four years from now. the bush thing, how you doing? >> that was definitely -- >> mika, very moving service yesterday. >> it was impressive. >> what an extraordinary life. what an extraordinary faith. what an extraordinary man. >> i feel the funeral -- it was one of those events that was 100% authentic. everything that was said in there was 100% true and not exaggerated at all. this was who he was. andrew young -- >> my god. >> joe biden's eulogy was unbelievably beautiful. started off with a little bit of an edge there, i thought, to the future. it was -- joe and i sat with a

lot of folks who worked with my dad. it was a little bit of a reunion in a way. very poignant. >> when you think of when carter left washington, the way he . reagan was supreme. he was a failed president. they waited to release the hostages until after reagan took the oath of office. for years, for decades, he was seen as this failed president. it has been a total reassessment. i was thinking watching in that grand space, that huge, beautiful space, and all the presidents came to pay homage to him. it's a very different arrival back in washington. >> this was a man who felt and was an outsider and operated that way. also, had a very simple moral approach, simply in a good way, to his governing. it's interesting, this is the kind of thing where history --

it takes time to look back on what -- a certain amount of time, what a presidency meant to the world. in this case, wow, did the narrative turn when you look back on this presidency and really pour through the details of it. >> it reminds me of harry truman. harry truman left. went back to independence with a 23% approval rating. carter left in the same way going back to plains, georgia. look at what truman did. he reframed the entire world, the post-war world. look what carter did in 1979. the hostage crisis, so horrific. look what he did, the camp david accords. >> china. >> look at what he did on human rights. when the soviet union fell, the russians, they did not go, reagan brought down the wall. they blamed two people. jimmy carter and the guy who was

her dad. they knew. it was carter. it was human rights, which i remember as a young kid, republicans mocking jimmy carter for being too idealistic on human rights. it was, of course, a continuous line. >> he started the buildup and applying those pressures on the system that ultimately cracked because it was so brittle. really, the reassessment of carter's presidency has taken place over years. now it is -- it's a good thing that people appreciate what he did. i was thinking yesterday -- i was talking to andrea mitchell.

israel and egypt have been at peace now longer than they were at war. from the founding of israel to the camp david accords is not as long as from the camp david accords to now. his accomplishment -- that accomplishment was so enduring that it's remarkable. another live report from southern california as the sun comes up over a scene of wide scale devastation. a look at the aftermath of the deadly wildfires next on "morning joe." "morning joe." my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back. now with skyrizi, i'm all in with clearer skin. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪♪ ♪ yeah... i feel free ♪

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welcome back. as the massive wildfires across southern california continue to rage, many evacuees are returning to find their homes have been completely destroyed. >> reporter: desolation and

silence punctured by gas lines still spewing fire. in the destruction, there was a search for anything with meaning. this is everything you own? >> everything. now, we're just trying to find something. i mean, i don't care. a teacup. broke. she was thrilled. what else can we get? it's gone, bro. >> reporter: as flames descended at 4:00 in the morning, rupert garcia tried to fight back. >> embers were flying all over the place. >> reporter: one scorching his cheek. at what point did you realize, i'm not going to save the house? >> my son-in-law grabbed me and said, we gotta go. i was like, no. i turned around, i can't go. 51 years i've been in this house. >> reporter: shortly after rupert was forced to flee, we arrived to find what felt like a

hurricane of fire. we spotted a horse trapped in an inferno and ran to get help. this is a firefighter jumping into action. >> i sprayed water around him. >> reporter: we learned the horse survived. across the way, jose shows us what was the garage full of landscaping tools he had just invested in. now his livelihood along with almost everything else gone in an instant. so often we hear they escaped only with the clothes on their back. >> this is my house slippers. >> reporter: that's the reality. >> you work hard for your american dream. >> reporter: for so many in a community looking face to face with the flames. >> the devastation in southern california hit our next guest especially hard. not only is diane warren a grammy, emmy and golden globe winning songwriter, she's also one of the many people who have lost a home to the wildfires there. thank you so much for being here.

let's start there with, tell us -- we have a new documentary out that we will get to in a moment. this is a tragedy that touched you personally. >> i had a house in malibu that basically got destroyed in the fire. i'm one of many, sadly, that this has happened to. i'm flying back to l.a. and not sure what i'm flying back into. it's terrible. a terrible tragedy for everybody. so many of my friends have lost their homes. >> you had departed before the fire ignited. it spread so rapidly. >> yeah. this happened -- i basically landed and my friend said, i think your house is on fire. >> we're certainly very sorry to hear that. tell us about that community. you are right, it's not just you. it's so many people. talk to us about the community that's forever changed. >> yeah. it is. there's so many people -- a lot of my music friends it has hit.

but it hit everybody. it's just terrible. it's terrible. >> it truly is. of course, we will keep an eye on it with updates throughout the morning here. diane, in our intro we scratched the surface of what is your prolific career. diane warren has helped create songs for lady gaga, taylor swift, cher and whitney houston to name a few. she's been nominated for 15 academy awards. she's on the short list in the category of best original song for her track "the journey" from tyler perry's movie "the 6888." let's look at this film which is called "relentless." >> diane. >> diane. >> who is this? >> who is this? >> there's no one like her. >> tless. >> i have a bracelet that says relentless. >> she's just crazy.

oh, my god. she writes great songs. >> more hits by so many artists. >> whitney houston, gaga, celine. >> i don't want to miss a thing that's on here. >> that was steven tyler's first number one song. >> i don't analyze what i do. go to work and i work. >> she writes this stuff by herself in that miserable, miserable room of hers. >> i love it in here. i put blinders on like this. my work, my work, my work. >> all these hits. one writer, one genius named diane warren. >> you are the writer behind so many hits. what was it like this time to be the one in front of the camera? >> weird. i'm kind of -- i'm a behind the scenes person. i never wanted do this ed to d an artist. i wanted to be the songwriter. it's weird. i'm happy to talk about my songs, but it's weird to talk about myself and weirder to see

myself. >> let's speak about those collaborations. some of the biggest names ever in music. how do you approach each one? i assume that one size does not fit all. >> no, no. it has to be authentic to the artist. i have to match the right song with the write artist. that's so important. you can't just give any song to any artist. i love working with great singers, great artists. doing a song for a movie is a different thing. you have to be authentic to the movie and the artist. >> talk about that room where you do the writing, which was highlighted. where is that room? >> that room? >> yeah. >> it's an office i have had for decades. i have never cleaned. it's kind of weird. it's not superstition at this point. i think i'm just lazy and don't want to clean it. >> whatever you are doing is obviously working. the resume speaks for itself. look at part of the video for that song on the oscar short list that you did write, which

is "the 6888" about women of color serving overseas in world war ii. it's called "the journey" and is song by the award winning artist h.e.r. ♪ it's a journey ♪ ♪ it's the getting there to where you are going to ♪ ♪ go through hell, but still you are going to make it through ♪ ♪ it's the fire that they can't put out inside ♪ ♪ it's a hell of a ride ♪ ♪ it's a journey ♪ >> tell us about that song, the inspiration of the film matching with the artist. >> my friend was a producer on

the movie and she showed me a sizzle reel and walked me through the scene -- scene by scene of the movie. i never have written a song that way. i will read a script or see a rough cut of the movie. she talked me through it. i was like, how is the story -- how has nobody told the story? i sat down the next day and started playing the -- the chorus, it came. it doesn't usually happen that quickly. gaby, who i met when she was 15 -- h.e.r. who beat me with oscars -- it's a dirty job, someone has got to do it. we met years ago and randomly she called saying, we should work again. i had just written "the journey." come over to the studio, i want to play you something. i played it that day. she reported it that day, like in four hours. played the piano, guitar and sang that amazing vocal that quickly. it was magical. everybody in the studio was like, what is this?

>> it's a powerful, great song. the latest in a long line of songs that she's written. google is your friend here. check out the discography. it's remarkable. the new documentary is in theaters now and streaming on masterclass. that starts january 16th. die scan diane warren, we appreciate you being here. best of luck returning home. we will go live to southern california on the wildfires burning across the area. we will bring you expert legal analysis ahead of the sentencing for donald trump in his new york city hush money case. wall street's reacting to the new jobs report, a big one. stephanie ruhle and andrew ross sorkin join us with the data. a jam-packed hour of "morning joe" is straight ahead. to see this.

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we have got a window of opportunity here where the smoke has cleared significantly where we are and where we are pointing the camera appeared i will just parrot what the reporter before me said. everything is gone. that is not hyperbole. look at this lot. have multiplied this by thousands. that is what we are trying to illustrate here as i zoom out.

is destruction as far as the eye can see and i can only imagine what we are going to see as more of this smoke clears. >> our nbc affiliate in los angeles yesterday getting a bird's-eye view of the devastation from the palisades fire. will have the latest from southern california and just a moment to welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." is 9:00 a.m. in the east. at least 10 people are dead as wildfires in southern california rage for yet another day. 180,000 have been forced to evacuate as flames have burned through over 30,000 acres, twice the size of manhattan. senior national correspondent tom llamas has the latest. >> reporter: this morning as crews try to contain those massive wildfires, new ones are popping up. the kenneth fire

igniting in the west hills area. first responders moving in. fixed wing aircraft trying to contain the fires from the skies as overnight santa ana winds picked up again last night. in pacific palisades, fire still rolling. >> all of my neighbors, their houses are gone. >> reporter: view from above showing the scorched earth of the devastated area. many homes along the pacific coast highway in ruins while the fight to save property and lives goes on. ground work goes on for hours straight. >> you bodies out of the house. another house caught on fire. >> reporter: so many around the region now collected -- connected by lofts. >> we will rebuild and we will rebuild together.

>> reporter: among those who lost their home, this couple and their three daughters scrambling to get out alive. >> she keeps asking to go home. and we are home now. you know, wherever we go, that is our home. >> reporter: similar scenes taking place in altadena where the eaton fire has claimed 4000 structures. flames from the eaton fire traveling to the base of mount wilson threatening a historic observatory and transmitters used to broadcast local tv to millions in the area. the mayor of los angeles requesting support from the national guard and promising to rebuild. >> we will clear the redtape and unnecessary delays and cost. >> reporter: hydrants are running dry which city officials say is due to high demand.

one fire victim confronting california's governor. >> why is there no water in the hydrants? is it going to be different next time? >> it has to be. >> reporter: one of the nation's most beloved regions coping with unimaginable loss. >> that was nbc's tom llamas without reporting. joining us now, liz kreutz. good to see you this morning. the sun is not up yet where you are, but what is the latest you can see there on the ground? >> reporter: hey there. yeah, it is just devastation for as far as you can see. i am in downtown altadena. this was an auto shop. you could see the charred cars sure. this is one of the businesses destroyed in altadena. state farm insurance business is gone except for the state farm sign and ironically, they've dropped several people

from their homeowners insurance just in this community over the last year. i spoke to a couple who lost their home here. thousands of people have homes here that are gone. one couple had been dropped from their homeowners insurance last year and spend months trying to get it back. they just got it back last month and they cried when they found someone that would give them coverage. they say they are the lucky ones. so many in this community will try to come back and rebuild but don't have coverage as insurance companies pull out of the state because of the climate crisis we are seeing. here in altadena we know the death toll has risen to 10 and it could go up. i spoke to a woman whose grandmother passed away, she believes she perished in the fire. her grandmother lived in this home for 40 years and didn't want to go. she had gone through many fires

before. " i'm okay." they say she perished in the fire, in her home. you know, they never expected her to go that way. she is 83 and they thought she would be walking around to 99. an absolute tragedy. first responders will come in with cadaver dogs to search for more remains, guys. >> that is the fear for the firefighters accessing these places, that the death toll will go up. give us an update on where the containment stands. the winds have died down but are expecting to pick up again today at least for the first half of the day. what is the latest? >> reporter: fires are 0% contained. are not raging like we saw before. we are not seeing different homes on fire in the populated areas like we were seeing the past couple of days but definitely with winds picking up, that will be a concern.

we are not seeing super strong winds that we saw so hopefully that will allow them to get a handle on this but to point out another issue, the kenneth fire that you guys have been reporting on in the woodland hills area, they are investigating that as potential arson and the national guard is here passing through the fire lines. there has always been a police presence but it has ramped up significantly since yesterday. the national guard is here. there are multiple checkpoints with police officers checking on media i.d. badges because there is concern of larson -- arson and looters. there are police officers coming up here with sirens. we have seen that in the neighborhoods as they are cracking down on anyone trying to get in right now. >> like, nbc's liz kreutz, thank you for joining us. mika, police have to be deployed to these areas to ward

off looters. just another low as people are returning to their homes finding literally their memories reduced to ashes and yet whatever does divide have to be protected from being stolen. >> yes. some of these fires are not contained yet. not even close. joining us now, congressman jared of florida, florida's emergency management division. i would love to get your insight given you are dealing in a way in an area that has got similar challenges in that i think there will need to be an entirely different way to look at rebuilding infrastructure keeping up with the rapid changes due to climate change, and how are you looking at this situation happening in california? what is standing out to you? >> thanks, mika. what is standing out, the

several different fires burning in similar areas and the population. and of course, you have high winds in which they couldn't get their assets into the air that would have allowed them to really start containment. for all intents and purposes in a very populated area burned out of control for several days and the burn is intense. that reminds me of the fire we had a few years ago in hawaii. much smaller, but the fire burned through the town because they couldn't get water into the area fast enough. you know, there will have to be several action reviews which is common after disasters. fema will do that, as will cal fire to figure out from a response standpoint, you know, how to improve this. we have heard about the pressure

in the fire hydrants. if you compare this to the campfire of 2018 which caused $16 billion in damage, we are already halfway there. that was the largest wildfire in california history and we're halfway there with 9000 structures. the area is going to be, you know, maybe five or six times more expensive, so congress will have to act to help out california because the money appropriated for fiscal year 2025 was paying for disasters that happened in 2024 and fema has, you know, dozens of open disasters that money will be needed for reimbursement so congress will have to help sometime next year in california. >> yeah, it kind of feels weird to talk about rebuilding while these fires are still burning. my question to you is is that seem feasible exactly where these homes and properties are,

given what this country is facing, what this world is facing in terms of weather changes? winds are keeping fires burning to the point some are 0% contained right now. >>, look, there will be mitigation money coming down from fema. there will be billions of dollars that can be used to help build back stronger. after hurricane andrew, they made the code stronger, so california will have to look into ways to rebuild their infrastructure as there will be federal dollars available to do that but mika, i would say in this conversation some would say, well, we don't want to subsidize where people live. i've got a bad news for everybody. disasters are coming everywhere. the idea it is just california, justin florida, but what

happened in north carolina was an unprecedented disaster. superstorm sandy in new jersey was an unprecedented disaster. this idea that unless you live in the exact middle of the country -- >> right. >> you will not have disasters? i've got bad news for those people. tornado alley is expanding. we are seeing disasters in areas we have not seen before and much larger in scale. we have to figure out also how to improve response. we spend a lot of time on, you know, all of these stadiums county -- state and county responses we have to invest into emergency management and response. response is not only where we save lives but that's where we keep the dollar amount and damage low. i can tell you if you look at these disasters, our capability seems to have gotten in a lower threshold than in previous

times. >> we will need to continue this conversation. congressman jared moskowitz of florida, thank you so much for coming on this morning. we will see you soon. take care. time now for a look at other headlines this morning. the biden administration succeeded in temporarily blocking accused 9/11 mastermind from entering a guilty plea in a deal that would've allowed him to forgo trial and avoid the death penalty. an appeals panel agreed to put on hold his guilty plea scheduled for this morning. the biden administration is pushing to throw out plea agreements defense department had negotiated with him and two other codefendants. the water system in richmond, virginia is fully operational once again after the city went without running water for the week, closing schools and shutting local businesses. a storm on monday caused an electrical failure that shut

down the water production plant. while the city's main reservoir failed overnight, a boil water advisory could remain in place until tomorrow. union members will vote on a deal to avert a massive strike at ports. dockworkers reached an agreement with the maritime alliance for wage gains and protection against new technologies that would eliminate jobs. both sides called it a win-win. and "wicked" has earned $70 million in its first week in digital release. this comes on top of the $700 million took in at the box office. $20 to rent or $30 to buy the film, the highest grossing broadway musical movie of all time. coming up, will continue

with our coverage of the devastating wildfires in california and take a look at the economic impact with losses already expected to be over $50 billion. plus, moments from now, president-elect trump is set to be sentenced in his criminal hush money case. we will get a live report outside of the courthouse next.

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you know, now we are just trying to find some. you know, half a teacup broke. you know, what else can we get? it's gone, bro. >> this devastation being felt right now, homes are destroyed. it can be rebuilt but this is destroying families, routines, and for 30,000 plus people to be displaced, it is sad. >> everything was there.

my work equipment, my deceased mother's photos and belongings she passed down to me. that's all i have. i have nothing. >> this is pretty extreme. the most extreme thing i've ever seen. at this point, it is about surviving and trying to save as many people as you can. >> we had everything, like the sentimental things. like, my mom passed away. we only had a few things of hers left. my wedding dress, wedding album, we left everything. we have whatever we are wearing. we have been wearing the same thing for the past two days. >> survivors of the california wildfires sharing their stories of loss after witnessing the catastrophic flames licked through their homes leaving

their once thriving communities completely destroyed, decimated. meanwhile it is unclear what the devastating wildfires will mean for california and the nation's already strained insurance market. joining us now, from the squawk box, andrew ross sorkin. and business analyst and host of the 11th hour, stephanie ruhle. and senior business correspondent, christine romans, i will start with you. with the insurance industry, what is going to happen? >> reporter: this was already an industry in crisis and you add a traumatic tragedy happening. there were already insurance companies pulling out of some zip codes that a lot of folks who might not even have insurance this morning when they are waking up here, california coming in with a last resort. that will be tested for sure.

people around the rest of the country will see their own insurance premiums rising. we are talking extreme weather. everyone's insurance rate premiums have been rising for years so i would say this is a tipping point. in california over the past decade insurance for every dollar in premiums they paid out a dollar rate but that does not work. >> you have talked to business leaders and industry leaders. how do they see that going? >> reporter: it is possible part of this country if not the entirety will see how long this goes. there quote unquote uninsurable. you talked about the math that does not add up. you could have huge premiums but the question is are americans going to pay those premiums? what will be the role of government in all of this to prevent these types of things from happening? to the extent they even can be prevented given the climate

change we are seeing so there is a massive dynamic here. by the way, it's up to $20 billion but in total, we are talking somewhere around $150 billion of losses part of that because some of these homes were super valuable given they were on the coast and i like, but you know, there will be huge ramification of this. we have not talked about the business ramifications in california, whether people stay in california, what the several weeks, months, or years will look like. there will be a lot of conversation. not just the human toll but the economic one for the whole country. >> absolutely and in the days since the deadly wildfires in california began, conspiracy theories have started to spread across social media about the origins of the fires and the california government's response to them. there are i generated images of

the famous hollywood sign on fire, something that has not happened. this comes as meta ceo mark zuckerberg announced the company is getting rid of it independent fact checkers. stephanie, i believe elon musk is on instagram spreading conspiracy theories and it's just out there for people to consume without any understanding of what's true or what is not true? >> reporter: it is so problematic and dangerous. mark zuckerberg made a short- term business decision this week getting rid of third-party fact checking. they are taking that effort and moving it to texas. the irony is texas isn't political. obviously is. remember, in less than three weeks donald trump will be the new presidents with mark zuckerberg no longer has the onus on him to mark your tweets, your post to get them down if they are not true, to mark them, now he does not have

to do that. if he hadn't changed these rules. the question is going to be though, mika, for users , right? remember at the end of the day if mark zuckerberg and business leaders make business decisions to make money, remember we are the ones who use the product. remember, they rolled back the rules on hate speech so now anyone can say anything and there are no protections. all of the people who use these platforms have to decide do i want to be here? do i want to drive in a car with no seatbelt? do i want to get on a roller coaster with no safety protections whatsoever? if people say no, advertisers will say no and zuckerberg will have a different business decision to make. for now it is just in the short term. well, let's see how it works out. but how it works out could be terrible.

>> reporter: for mark zuckerberg, there are cases against them and whether those cases disappear and how much value would be extracted for that. the other piece, while there are a lot of folks who may have stopped going on x, a lot of folks started going on x and other folks who may not love what happening on x in the same way we hear about privacy concerns at some site or information being stolen on some site but we go onto the same store the next day. mark zuckerberg is recognizing that now. >> reporter: it is the catch wind. it could be hugely damaging to his business. and he now has donald trump in his pocket helping him with other issues as he's facing government on the other side of the world. let's turn to the latest economic news. the december jobs report was released moments ago and it showed the u.s. economy added 256,000 jobs in december, much,

much higher than what economists had expected. unemployment rate, 4.1%. christine, what is your read here? it came way over what was expected. >> reporter: all of the worries about a slowing job market have not come to fruition. economists were worried it could slow inflation but it hasn't. i was telling the producers before 2020 we would be screaming from the rooftops 256,000 jobs created! this would be bolting -- blooming in pre-covid times. that's a good position to hand to the next president. >> that was my question to you. what does this tell us in the economy? >> reporter: he is inheriting a very good economy. the stock market went down. this is good news meets at least in the marketplace a bad news situation because the

question is does inflation persist? and persist longer? what does the federal reserve do about interest rates? will they actually bring interest rates down? i think it'll be longer for that to happen. >> reporter: that is the thing. when you have numbers as strong as this, the fed will say we will hold off and not cut rates. for the average person out there who wants to borrow money, this is not a short-term good thing but when you look at the job market across the country, you cannot say it's not strong. it is. >> oh,, nbc's christine romans, cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you for coming on this morning. stephanie, stay with us. president-elect trump hush money case is about to get underway. we have a live report from outside the new york city courtroom in just a moment, but first, let's bring a legal analyst danny cevallos. danny, what can we expect today? >> reporter: unlike sentence

hearings, it's a big question what the judge will do. this is a rare occasion the judge has signaled in advance exactly what he is going to do and trump will get something called an unconditional discharge. conditional discharge means, hey, you report to probation, jump through some hoops, come back and that will be the end of your sentence. this is essentially your sentence is no sentence. no probation, no picking up trash on the side of the road, no community service, no nothing. that is your punishment, no punishment. the judge needs to put some things on the record. the law requires that. he has to explain why he is giving this sentence. that you take some time but other than that this will be shorter than your average sentencing hearing. >>, we will be following this as it happens. danny cevallos, thank you so much. let's go live outside the new york city courthouse in just a moment after a quick break.

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welcome back. 34 passed the hour. the sentencing hearing for president-elect trump's hush money case is expected to begin in moments. let's get over to yasmin vossoughian live from outside the courthouse in lower manhattan. yasmin, set the scene for us. >> reporter: yes, mika, i am getting set for the hearing this morning for the sentencing of president-elect trump who is set to take the white house as a felon after the sentencing wraps up today. the defense is already seated along with the doe, alvin bragg . we also know todd blanche and donald trump are seated

together from a live stream from mar-a-lago. judge merchan has taken the bench . there were two delays in the sentencing. originally set for july and delayed again after then candidate trump was elected president-elect trump come november. here we are now january 10th and we understand where judge merchan is going. he will call for unconditional discharge, essentially meaning no penalty there but in fact donald trump will walk out today as a felon and go through his inauguration and become the next president of the united states as a felon entering the white house in just 10 days from now. we will likely hear from the prosecution first followed by the defense, possibly from the president-elect himself from mar-a-lago and from there, we will hear from judge juan

merchan for his sentencing. we've covered this trial 24-7 along with a years long story of the hush money trial involving adult film star stormy daniels. mika? >> yasmin, stay with us. one of the reasons she is there, she is taking in all of the text from reporters and producers from inside the courthouse. no audio, no video being provided so that reporters are able to disseminate information and give it to us as soon as possible. let's bring in msnbc contributor chuck rosenberg, from palm beach county florida dave aronberg, and a msnbc legal analyst charles coleman. great group to have. chuck, i will start with you. what are you watching for as this plays out today? >> reporter: well, mika, judge merchan has already told us he is leaning to unconditional

discharge meaning a sentence of no sentence. that is unusual. highly unusual. in all of my years as a federal prosecutor i've never seen anything like it. almost always there is incarceration or at least supervised release, community service, a fine, something attached. but judge merchan said there will be no sentence. what that means too, which is important, the underlying criminal case is over. the judgment is final. mr. trump, of course, has the right to appeal but the sentencing puts an end to the underlying case and make mr. trump a felon before he assumes office for the second time. i am looking for whether or not he has anything to say. i don't imagine he will be

apologetic. >> chuck, any tangible consequences? when and if we do hear from donald trump, he will say this is political persecution and a witchhunt. he will not take ownership of it. >> reporter: no. >> so he wins? >> reporter: well, he is still convicted. a jury of his peers found him guilty beyond reasonable doubt and that means something to me. does he serve time? will he pay a fine? that does not seem like that will be the case. >> charles, walk us through what we will see or hear today. of course, we have reporters in the building. what are your expectations from what we will hear from the judge? >> well, jonathan, i expect prosecutors to make an application before the court for a different kind of

sentence. they will lay out the significance and asked the judge to consider a different sentence knowing the judge will not do that but to preserve the record and to preserve any sort of issues that might be appealable or their opinion on an appealable issue they will absolutely make that application before the court. the judge will say more likely than not he is considering a variety of options in terms of what he could for sentencing donald trump and go along with what he already previously decided, this unconditional discharge. he will explain the severity of the crime and the uniqueness of the situation to try to justify it to go back to such point, at the end of the day, this is going to be nothing. this is going to be someone who walks out of the court and a person will not be able to distinguish donald trump from a free man who is not convicted. you are talking about a convicted felon and a free man

and no virtual difference in how the justice system has treated them at the end of the day and that is a true travesty that has not been talked about enough. >> so, dave aronberg, let's get your thoughts on this. he will be a convicted felon and the history books will record that. the judge wants to go through with this and validate the jury's findings. the legal system played out to its conclusion. that would be one side of it. the other, what charles just said. the punishment is basically meaningless. >> reporter: jonathan, he will become the first ever president who is a convicted felon. he cares about that and that is why he will appeal the underlying condition all the way to the supreme court. to get to your and stephanie's points that there is no ramification for it, well, in palm beach county, he will not be able to vote as a convicted felon. governor desantis will make a special case out of him to make

sure he gets his voting rights back but once the sentence is imposed, the question is can he vote? he will be treated different than everyone else but for a time that is the question. what is interesting about this hearing, trump is being treated like any other criminal defendant. you have to appeal after sentencing but trump said, no, i want to go to the supreme court before sentencing and the supreme court justices said no, five of them dead. credit judge merchan for this because the reason justice roberts and amy coney barrett sided with the decision is because judge merchan took the punishment off the table so they said this sentencing will not have any real impact upon trump's transition. so, let it go forward and trump can appeal the case afterwards like everyone else. >> yasmin, let's get back to you outside the courthouse. what is the latest on what's going on inside? >> reporter: things are happening pretty quickly, jonathan.

i am looking down to read this document in real time. first and foremost they discussed the presentencing report which essentially lays out the president-elect's criminal history. todd blanche, the defense attorney, said circumstances had changed, right? he is now president-elect, 10 days away from taking the white house. we heard from joshua steinglass, a member of the prosecuting attorneys team in which he said, and i am quoting here, that people recommend a sentence of unconditional release. that is where we stand at this point and something we expected . we will be going through the sentencing today and it will be due to his unconditional release. people are saying and i quote once again people recommend a sentence of unconditional release, jonathan. >> so, chuck, no surprise. give us your early reading. >> reporter: this is a

predictable path given judge merchan said he was inclined to an unconditional discharge. no penalties attached. one thing to watch for or to listen for in our case, jonathan, mr. trump like all defendant has a right to speak at his own sentencing. he doesn't have to. it is a right, not an obligation. i am curious to see if he says anything and if he does, what he has to say. >> let's bring in vaughn hillyard also outside the courthouse in manhattan. you have covered the trim -- trump campaign day in and day out. put this into perspective. >> reporter: there will not be much to this punishment. donald trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. that said, he's the first former president to be convicted of a crime, to be deemed a convicted felon and not only that, in 10 days time, precisely 10 days from today,

he will be president again, to take a moment and think about what this really means. >> reporter: right, jonathan. if you go off the timeline the prosecution presented, the conspiracy properly insulin -- influenced the 2016 election. michael cohen and david pecker of the national enquirer sat down with trump and came up with an agreement for coming up with a scheme over the next year of his candidacy that they would go and seek to purchase stories that were damaging to donald trump and go and promote other stories that were not necessarily based in fact like ted cruz and marco rubio in order to damage their campaign. if you look at where we are 10 years later he's about to enter the white house for a second

time and in so many ways what this trial ultimately provided the public record was an accounting of not only the alleged affairs he has continued to deny, but's stormy daniels, karen mcdougal, but the extension he was willing to use those who worked with him and allies from pecker to cohen as a means of protecting himself. michael cohen said they had multiple conversations about the payoff to stormy daniels at a time the fbi raided the home and office of cohen and took some of his devices that on social media, on twitter, trump said he hoped cohen would flip on him and that is where the relationship frayed . michael cohen stood out as someone who unlike so many who worked with donald trump, he ended up effectively flipping on donald

trump and coming here to this lower manhattan courtroom and testifying about the relationship and acknowledging he did it as a means of protecting, in his words, donald trump. we have seen donald trump turn on others in his political time in office and of course we are looking at someone here entering the white house just 10 days from now and will be known as a convicted felon with that label on it. at the same time, those seven weeks should not be forgotten from the public record because so many individuals close to donald trump came here and publicly testified to a jury about the power dynamic trump has undoubtedly reeled in his power of influence whether it be the trump administration or political campaigns, or inside his white house. >> this is undeniably now part of donald trump's story. so, dave aronberg, let's go

back to you and talk about his relationship with the legal system. in 2020 during his efforts to overturn the election, it seems like he had a lot of victories since and his stall tactics have worked with his cases. he can make most of them go away but he's had some setbacks. the circuit court ruled against him and denied his last ditch effort to deny the sentencing. he said he respected the court but knew this was a relatively small matter. he wanted to alienate them for bigger stuff he needed down the road so that is my question to you. what lessons, what foreshadowing might we see going forward with trump's relationship with the judicial system? >> reporter: trump will not be shy about attacking judges. he is very disappointed in amy coney barrett who has broken away from the court conservative and ruled against him. she was with him on the

ultimate decision but has gone too far so i think you will see trump continue to attack judges and prosecutors on the other side. you are right, in this case, he knows he needs the supreme court justices because he will appeal this case all the way up to them and the reason why he's got a legitimate argument because it was so broad is that in the trial that took place after the decision -- excuse me, before the decision came out, the state introduced two witnesses who were both white house employees. they were minor witnesses, but because it was admitted to the new york case, that gives trump the ability to say they violated the decision. overturn the whole thing. he could ultimately win and get this whole thing overturned, so yes, he lost the battle with the supreme court yesterday but he may still win the war. >> let's get back outside of

the courthouse in manhattan. yasmin, what is the latest there? >> reporter: after we heard the recommendation of unconditional release, he is essentially recounting the case, right? establishing why it is in fact donald trump should be seen or the president-elect should be seen as a convicted felon and there should be finality to this case. he said the verdict was unanimous and must be respected. trump called the trial corrupt, rigged, a witchhunt, or a sham too many times to count. he goes on with his attacks against the court and their families. he says trump is doing this with the hope they will ignore the defendant's transgressions because they fear he is too powerful to be subjected to the same rule of law as the rest of us. he thinks he is above the law and not responsible for the actions. he goes on to say and i'm paraphrasing here, this will

provide finality to the trial we have seen go on for months on end. in the 34 counts in which the president-elect was found guilty, jonathan. >> we have heard from the das office some pretty blonde -- blunt language. it is to defend the process? >> reporter: absolutely, jonathan. when you think of what it is they have a two-tiered justice system in america, everything the das office has said speaks to that. you are talking about someone who is clearly a convicted felon and for the viewers and everyone having this conversation, you cannot overestimate the significance of how much everything else to someone, a regular person in society wants to deal with as far as going forward with their lives and on the other hand, look at donald trump walked out

of court today with unconditional discharge. no man is above the law. we are creating a historic exception to the rule in today's sentencing and people need to understand the gravity of this decision. it is not to be expected donald trump whatever served jail time for this crime, i want to be clear about that. it is not expected donald trump would have some enormous sentence that would be hugely cumbersome to him moving forward. however to give him an unconditional discharge as a convicted felon for a felony is a big deal and something that historically would have never happened to someone else so it's very hard to listen to everything happening right now for the millions of americans that have had to deal with this themselves, their friends, their family and understanding what that means going forward. donald trump will walk out of court despite the rhetoric, despite the record, despite what is being said by the das office and what i anticipate will be set by judge merchan still at the end of the day a

free man. >> chuck rosenberg, one of donald trump's defense attorneys, todd blanche, in 10 days time, his job title shifts from nominee to deputy attorney general as one of trump's appointees moving from personal attorney into the highest levels of government. >> reporter: it's interesting, the deputy attorney general of the united states is the number two person and it may well be todd blanche in the weeks and months to come. that person is the chief operating officer of the department of justice. huge position. important position. that will raise interesting questions about his obligation to accuse perhaps from certain matters related to his representation of client trump. while all of that is said, let me frame this in a way that may be helpful to some people. i was a prosecutor for a long

time and there were things i controlled, jonathan, like my charging decision, largely the trial, who i call, the evidence . it's entirely the judge. i can make a recommendation but the judge sentences. mr. trump after today is a convicted felon. there is a jury of his peers found him guilty with proof beyond a reasonable doubt. even though some describe the case as weak, it was never weak. it was less serious perhaps than other things he was charged with, but it was not a week case. it was a strong case. don't get caught up on what the sentence is. charles is right. this is unusual. highly unusual. unprecedented. he will remain a convicted felon after today. >> dave aronberg, let's get your thoughts on that. donald trump part of his legacy

is a convicted felon. your assessment is this might be the end or near the end of this long and winding donald trump legal road with four cases down to just this one and it will not lead to any prison time. on the whole you think justice has been served? >> reporter: no, jonathan. the supreme court put its thumb on the scale. they had a chance to intervene in the election interference case. please, come in. the supreme court said, no, let it go through the regular process. they waited and waited and then they came in and delayed matters so long and came up with this broad ruling that made it impossible to go to trial on the case that people cared about the most, january 6th, the attempted insurrection. i thought the documents case was the strongest of them all. the mar-a-lago documents case. but the government got the bad luck of judge cannon, who trump appointed, who bent over backwards in every instance and

dismissed the whole case based on an unprecedented theory, so no, i don't think justice has been served. in new york, the trial put -- people believe is a small ball could be put on appeal so sadly, no, when it comes to the role of law, there is one person who has been above the law. >> donald trump just now putting out a fundraising email trying to make money off what's happening. yasmin, we are receiving word trump is indeed taking up the chance to speak. what is he saying? >> reporter: todd blanche spoke before donald trump and i'm paraphrasing here. they will appeal the case and it is a sad day for the country, a sad day for the president-elect as well. he started speaking at 9:54 this morning, saying this has been a terrible experience. some of this is paraphrasing but i will read this as verbatim as i can. the president-elect will be

inaugurated in 10 days time as the next president of the united states. here is what he said. the setback has been brought by alvin bragg and a gentleman from a law firm came in whose that i falsified business records, legal expenses, legal fees put down. i am imagining he is speaking about michael cohen there. we know michael cohen as donald trump's former fixture. he said put down by my accounts. we know the back and forth. we know throughout the spring in which the president-elect is now referring to. i have been told by some from inside the courtroom donald trump is reading from paper, but not entirely. he goes on to say cnn of all places, they all said this is not a case that should be brought.

we know often times the former president, now president-elect likes to refer to the media in supporting some of the claims that he makes not only inside the courtroom but outside the courtroom as well. he is doing that now as he is making the statement in front of judge juan merchan. some other quotes from inside the courtroom, this has been a political witch hunt. that is something we have heard before from the president-elect along with it is done to damage my reputation so i would lose the election. as i am being told from inside the courtroom he is going through his campaign style rift about his court and this case, jonathan. >> yasmin from outside the courthouse, thank you so much. and mika, to no one's surprise, no contrition there from the president-elect. his statement from the courtroom reads from a truth social post or a rant from one

of his rallies. >> chuck rosenberg, dave aronberg, msnbc legal analyst charles coleman, thank you so much for your insight and analysis this morning. we will hand off coverage right now to ana cabrera and jose diaz-balart. have a great weekend. good morning. i am ana cabrera alongside my colleague, jose diaz-balart, with the sentencing of president-elect trump. the sentencing trump fought tooth and nail to prevent from happening is underway in a manhattan courthouse with trump being sentenced on his felony convictions in the new york hush money case. >> this makes trump the bearer of an unprecedented distinction. 10 days out from his inauguration he is about to become the first president to enter office as a convicted felon. trump arguing virtually this morning from mar-a-lago he continues to speak to the court

via a monitor. >> this is all happening before the judge gives his sentence and his reasoning for this sentence. it will be the first time we hear from judge merchan later this morning. >> right. >> after a case in which we saw the former president, soon to be president again, attacked the judge, prosecution, and judicial system. let's get over to nbc's vaughn hillyard whose outside the courthouse in new york. and also joining us right now, kristen gibbons feden. >> right. the president elect, just ten days from going to washington, d.c, and being sworn in to be inaugurated as the next president is virtually appearing from his