phones, access your words, access free speech and the things that you're saying at home in private, next thing you know, ari, something siri records that you're saying at home, your opinion about something political and nonpolitical, anything like that can be taken out of context, given to government. next thing you know, you're getting a knock on your door because you may have said something that siri picked up, or china finds out how much china i've been telling siri to play epmd's greatest hits. >> right. and then how is that used against me? >> well, it's tiktok i thought. >> i thought he was i thought he was getting rid of tiktok. >> what happened? well, by january 19th it might be shut down. the supreme court was very friendly to tiktok ban today. so this is how we end the week i love this, i could see this being a recurring thing. he's already a recurring thing. hey erick sermon, respect. great to see you, ayman. great to see you. that does it for us. the reidout starts now. >> i'm drinking. >> hey. >> tonight on the reidout, after

careful analysis in obedience to governing mandates and pursuant to the rule of law, this court has determined that the only lawful sentence that permits entry of a judgment of conviction without encroaching upon the highest office in the land, is an unconditional discharge, a devastating day for donald trump. >> for the first time ever, he didn't completely get away with it. and while he won't be going to prison, which he would be if his name was donald jones, he is now, in fact, and in the history books, a convicted felon. also tonight, the latest on the catastrophic wildfires in los angeles, with the disinformation spreading as fast as the flames. plus, he expected to be executed by his russian captors. but vladimir kara-murza is now free after surviving more than two years in russian prisons. i'll bring you my interview with

vladimir and his wife, evgenia kara-murza. but we begin tonight with another first for donald trump. he was the first president to be twice impeached, the first former president to be indicted on criminal charges, something he accomplished four times. and as of today, he will be the first president to enter the white house as a convicted felon. that was the result following his sentencing this morning in a new york city courtroom after a jury back in may unanimously found trump guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records to cover up the salacious facts about him allegedly sleeping with and paying off a porn actress and a playboy model so he could get elected president by a largely evangelical voting base back in 2016, something that had been thrown into doubt by the access hollywood video, in which he bragged about being able to do to women what he was later found by a jury to have

done to e jean carroll, namely, grabbing her genitals in an act of sexual abuse. as judge juan merchan revealed last week, the sentence imposed on mr. trump as merchan called him, rather than putting the president in his moniker like so many suckups do, even when he's out of office is an unconditional discharge, meaning trump gets no jail time, no probation, no fines, but he will now legally be labeled a convicted felon. now, in one sense, this is the biggest sweetheart deal imaginable for trump, considering that a new york times analysis of sentencing outcomes showed that in the past ten years, no other defendant convicted of falsifying business records in manhattan received such a lenient sentence. they all received either jail time, probation, fines or community service. and yes, it is completely unfair and unjust that trump gets not even a slap on the wrist for his crimes. but

see, if you're donald trump, this was anything but a sweetheart deal. now you have to remember that trump was raised by his father, fred trump, with the belief that there were only two types of people the strong and the weak, the winners and the losers. and today, with the label convicted felon added to his moniker, it's like having the word loser tattooed across his forehead. make no mistake, this is a humiliation. and we already see him lashing out. there's a reason that trump spent so much time and effort trying to avoid this day, in unsuccessfully reaching out to every court he could, including the u.s. supreme court, to try to once again evade accountability for his actions. but this time, regardless of his position, status and money, he had to face reality. he had to face accountability. perhaps must have really angered trump was the fact that he, albeit virtually, was forced to sit

down and listen to judge marchand, a colombian immigrant, while he lectured him about why he was facing sentencing and why he should not be considered any more privileged than any other citizen of this country. and leave it to marchand, who literally faced death threats in the service of this case, to deliver a lesson today, not in weaponizing the courts, as trump likes to claim, but in what should be the reality in america that no one in this country should consider themselves above the law, not even donald trump. >> it can be viewed fairly that this has been a truly extraordinary case. and yet the trial was a bit of a paradox, because once the courtroom doors were closed, the trial itself was no more special, unique or extraordinary than the other 32 criminal trials that took place in this courthouse at the same exact time. it is the legal protections afforded to the office of the president of the

united states that are extraordinary, not the occupant of the office. to be clear, the protections afforded the office of the president are not a mitigating factor. they do not reduce the seriousness and seriousness of the crime or justify its commission in any way. the protections are, however, a legal mandate which, pursuant to the rule of law, this court must respect and follow. however, despite the extraordinary breadth of those protections, one power they do not provide is the power to erase a jury verdict. it is clear from legal precedent which until july 1st was scarce, that donald trump, the ordinary citizen, donald trump, the criminal defendant, would not be entitled to such considerable

protections. >> i have a great panel here to discuss today's sentencing. former manhattan district attorney kathryn christian, conservative attorney george conway, president of the society for the rule of law institute, katie phang, host of the eponymous katie phang show on msnbc. and trump biographer david cay johnston, professor of practice at the rochester institute of technology. david, i do want to start with you because you've been covering donald trump the longest and i would say have known him the longest. i want to play for you what aaron rupar, i think very accurately called donald trump's motto in seven seconds. >> and i just like to explain that i was treated very, very unfairly. and i thank you very much. >> that is what he said as part of his when he had an opportunity to speak to the court. and that's pretty much the way trump lives. i have argued and been arguing back and forth with some folks on on blue sky that we may and it is unfair. okay, let's just be

clear. this is completely unfair that he gets to not have any jail time or any real sanction, but talk about the way trump would view what happened to him today. >> oh the donald, this is just an outrage. i mean, donald really does believe he's special. he's above the law. he's been committing crimes his entire adult life. i wrote a roadmap for alvin bragg and how to prosecute donald as a serial tax cheat who fabricated nonexistent businesses and used them to cut his taxes from just made up out of nothing filings with the government. he's he's a he forged his own lawyer's tax name once on a tax return, for example. and remember, he was tried civilly and twice and lost for income tax fraud. he could have been charged with perjury and other crimes. and so donald, even being just labeled a felon

is an outrage that this perfect example of not respecting that he's special. >> and he's not. i mean, katie, i mean, he's so entitled that this is somebody who just assumed that because he appointed three of the people on the supreme court, he had them in the bag, and he did have most of them in the bag, but we had four of them in the bag. right. the four conservatives were in the bag. i think it's clear clarence thomas gets vacations. he does what he's told samuel alito he and his wife are flying pro-trump flags, and he's on the phone with trump trying to get his ex aide a sweet deal, a gig at the justice department, making sure. oh, no, sir, he's he's loyal. you should hire him. that's the kind of sort of corruption he's used to. the only shock here is that john roberts decided to have a little dignity. and maybe he was just cornered by judge merchan, who was like, yeah, i'm not going to sanction him to any jail time. john roberts, you got anything for that? >> but that's the problem, though, right? because there was that notation in the decision

from scotus. joy, that because donald trump wasn't looking at a sentence. >> i've told people donald trump didn't get a sentence right. >> he may be a convicted felon, but there was no teeth to what happened. >> and so that's the reason why you saw amy coney barrett and john roberts decide to join with the liberal side of the scotus bench. there was no consequence. it kind of makes you wonder if there had been the very real threat that he, as in donald trump, would have been looking at even probation, a fine, maybe some community service hours. why don't you put donald trump in fire gear and have him go battle the fire in california like some other inmates are doing in california? but the point is, if there had actually been some threat joy, i don't know if he would have seen john roberts and amy coney barrett side with the liberal court. >> and so, you know, i i'm troubled by the fact that mershone didn't even require donald trump to show up for the sentencing today, didn't even give that little amount. >> donald trump could have been

sitting on teams in his pajama bottoms after he came out of the bathroom at mar-a-lago, looking at classified documents. >> nobody knows. but he didn't have to show up like every other defendant needed to do. >> so i appreciate the work from judge mershon and the manhattan da's office. >> i will always laud the work that they did, but this has always been. >> and it continues to be that t.s. eliot poem, this is the way the world ends. not with a bang, but with a whimper. it was the only one of four criminal indictments that went to a jury verdict. >> he should have been treated like everybody else. >> i 100% agree. i 1,000% agree with you, katie. but george conway, we also live in the real world in which this is a rich white republican and you have a supreme court that we knew was in the bag for him. as katie just said, if there had been any inkling that he was going to even have to clean up, you know, garbage on the side of the road, john roberts would have protected him. everybody knows that. everybody understands the fundamental corruption of these people. you had sam alito literally like within what, 24 hours of not recusing himself on

this case, on the phone with trump saying, don't worry, mr. trump, my aides 17 years ago is super loyal. don't worry that he worked for bill barr. he'll be your friend. that's the kind of corruption we're facing. and in a corrupt system. this is the only way that donald trump would ever have to face accountability. ever, ever, ever. no. >> well, i don't disagree with your characterization of some of the things that the supreme court has done, in particular that that phone call, and is a little odd. but the fact of the matter is, he was never, ever going once he was reelected, elected again to the oval office. >> he was never going to serve jail time. >> i mean, it has been the position of the department of justice from the nixon administration to the clinton administration and ever since. and nobody has really questioned it that a sitting president can not be incarcerated because it would prevent him from doing his constitutional duties under article two of the constitution. and article six is the supremacy clause, and it overrides everything else federal law and

state law. so there was no, you know, the there was never, ever any chance once he was elected, reelected again, that he was ever going to serve a moment of prison time? there was a possibility that i think i would have sustained a fine if i were the supreme court, if i were on the supreme court, because the fine is something that would have been imposed before he became president, and he certainly can afford a fine. but, you know, i can't i can't disagree with katie, that it's possible that a fine would have triggered a stay of the sentencing. so i think it's best that what happened happened. and the only other the only criticism i would have of judge mershon, who i have, i think has conducted himself in an exemplary fashion, much, actually much more faithful to the rule of law than the supreme court was last year is if i were him, i would have done a lengthier analysis where i would have said, here's how i would have ruled if he were john john smith. okay, he was a first time

offender, which cuts against incarceration. but on the other hand, the probation officer said that he, the defendant, thinks he's above the rule of law. on the other hand, the defendant attacked the court and the jury and the entire judicial system multiple times. on the other hand, again, that he was held in contempt ten times for violating clear court orders. and i think if any of us on this screen right now had done any of that and committed 34 felonies in in the manner that trump had, we would have gotten a year or two in jail. and i think he should have said that and then said, but in light of the fact that he is about to become president and in light of the supremacy clause in article two, that is never going to happen. and i can't do that. hence the unconditional discharge. >> well, you know, captain chris, let me bring you in here because the closest we got to

that was, i believe his first name was josh steinglass, who was one of alvin bragg's prosecutors, who came, i think, the closest to saying what george just described. let's play a little bit of mr. steinglass today. >> far from expressing any kind of remorse for his criminal conduct, the defendant has purposefully bred disdain for our judicial institutions and the rule of law. and he's done this to serve his own ends and to encourage others to reject the jury verdict that he finds so distasteful. he has been unrelenting in his unsubstantiated attacks upon this court and its family, individual prosecutors and their families, the witnesses, the grand jury, the trial jury, and the justice system as a whole. put simply, this defendant has caused enduring damage to the public perception of the criminal justice system and has placed officers of the court in harm's way.

>> catherine, that was the closest we got to hearing what george wanted to hear. how do you think there is some relevance and importance to hearing that from the prosecutors today? it was very important. and just just to like give a little credit to judge marshon. he did actually, in his written decision last week, lay out what some of what george said he should be saying. he didn't do it today. but in his written decision, along with letting the supreme court know last week, by the way, he's going to have a no strings attached sentence. so please don't stay the sentence. and i think that was important. and i think judge mershon saw that. but i think it is important that that that josh josh steinglass said what he said. so the public will know. and i'm so glad that judge mashon allowed. he didn't allow video, but he allowed audio so people can hear that this jury verdict stands, which is important. but all of what donald trump has done, not just on this case. remember, he

attacked judge chutkan on the federal interference case on his civil fraud case. he attacked judge engoron and his law clerk. so he has throughout this whole process of his four indictments, you know, has shown disdain for the criminal justice system, the judicial system and the rule of law. and judge mershon did something very important in that decision. he also basically held out the lawyers for their behavior, which, quite frankly, could subject them to discipline by the disciplinary authorities in new york. now, both of them, i understand, are going to be the second and the third command in the department of justice if they're confirmed. yeah, but that doesn't mean that they, while they're there, a disciplinary authority in new york for attorneys is called the attorney grievance committee. cannot say. you know what what judge michonne said was accurate. their behavior during that trial and in the papers that they filed should be

disciplined. in a system that is has creeping corruption. you need to have information that the public can remember. the public record becomes important in a system that is falling to corruption. i do believe that. don't go anywhere. my great panel is sticking with us for much more. on the historic sentencing of the first convicted felon to ever serve as united states president. we'll be right back. >> after this creature. >> it is death itself. >> nosferatu is a superbly crafted cinematic achievement. >> it transcends the genre and takes your breath away. >> does evil come from within us or from beyond? >> director robert eggers modern masterpiece is a perfect film in every way. >> there is a storm rising. >> it's the best picture of the year. nosferatu. we are now playing only in theaters, special engagements in dolby and imax. >> what if you could tackle your

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>> when the powerful can get away with anything because they have the money and the connections to rig the system, then people lose confidence in our laws and confidence in their futures. >> back with me are kathryn christian, george conway, katie phang, and david cay johnston. katie, what you just said is absolutely true. haha. ironic weight 100%. >> and i want everybody to remember too. he lost this trial, but he's able to afford lawyers that he's going to be appointing and putting at the department of justice to run the department of justice. >> i mean, if he thinks that the judicial system is so corrupt and that everything is rigged against him, then why even bother to have a department of justice? why not just dispense of even having that? >> he wants to be able to put people that have helped him by his version of justice, so that he can continue his path of corruption, but do it in an official capacity as the 47th

president of the united states. >> catherine, you started this. let's talk about it. i mean, the three of these guys, todd blanche is going to be number two. you started talking about it in the previous block. i'm going to let you say more. these are men who just got through defending him. let me play donald trump. this is what donald trump talks about. he likes talking about law and order. let's play this. this is a little montage. >> i am your president of law and order. >> we will end the weaponization of our government. >> we will bring back law and order to our country. >> we will bring back law and order to your community. we will bring it back and we'll bring it back immediately. >> there's nothing wrong with law and order. there's law and order, and you shouldn't be ashamed of it. >> catherine. when john sauer, todd. blanche and emil beauvais. are attempting to dispense law and order, why would anyone take them seriously? well, that, you know, that would be a problem. and as i said, the two trial attorneys. mr. blanche and mr. beauvais, and it's there in writing. and i think there's a

reason why judge mashon made a point of singling their behavior out, that you're supposed to be dignified as an attorney. i know people laugh at that, but there really are professional rules of responsibility in every state, and particularly in new york, about what you can and cannot put in legal papers that you file allegations that you can and cannot make about the parties or the judge, and you could be disciplined for that. and yes, it is true. you know, if you read judge musharraf's decision of last week or if you follow the trial in any way, you're going to wonder when these two people are the first and second in command in the department of justice. are you kidding me? but they have an opportunity to rise to the occasion. and also note alina habba, i believe, is being appointed as his counselor and the white house counselor. so all of the attorneys who assisted him, though i don't think she was a successful, are being given, you know, these

gifts of appointments for the white house. of course it's all all it's all bribes. it's all corruption, george. and you know, donald trump, you know, theoretically, a person who normally is convicted of a felony can't vote in the state of florida. and about eight other former confederate states. already, the governor of florida has said, no, we're going to let him vote anyway. we're going to clear his record, let him do that. there's like 38 countries you're not supposed to be able to travel to, including england, canada, mexico, australia, japan, china, argentina, all of which he visited in his first term. 38 countries. you're not allowed to get in if you're a felon. you know all of the stigma that normally associates. you have to check a box if you want to buy a gun, if you want to get certain licenses, you can't sell weed. have a weed business. donald trump is already getting a blight on all of that. i mean, i don't know, does he get to travel to one of these countries he's threatening tariffs with say, oh buddy, you want to do 25% tariffs. how about you can't come here because you're a felon. >> yeah i don't know what the

canadian law is but they're probably they probably will have to give him away. he wants to go to ottawa. yeah. you know look i mean, the first felon who i also like to call the first whiner. this is this is par for the course for him. i mean, the fact of the matter is, again, you know, he talks about the weaponization of the judicial system, and he talks about unfairness. but the only unfairness, as we've been talking has been has been visited on every other defendant other than him. if any of us had taken classified documents from the white house and brought them home, we would have been arrested and put in jail and held in held, held in jail already. and we would have gone to trial and even judge cannon in the southern district of florida would have probably expedited a trial and convicted us. and then, of course, the january 6th situation, a thousand people roughly have been already convicted and sentenced for the crimes that they would not have committed, except for donald trump. and in this and in this circumstance,

he was convicted and he would have served, i think, given his conduct, his contumacious behavior, his lack of remorse, all the things that we talked about before the break, i think he would have and should have been sentenced to prison. and then what's the other case? the georgia case. he got lucky because, you know, because because of the, you know, how long it took and how complex that was. so this man has been as as david has been pointing out, he has been skating throughout his life, and yet he's led this life of crime. and it's it really is distressing. >> yeah. and i'm going to let you close it out, david, because, you know, everyone around him has had their lives destroyed. rudy giuliani's life has been destroyed. he's broke. you know, 1000 people convicted of going to the capitol only because he wanted them to. walt nada and the other guy in florida, they're still going to trial. i mean, i guess he'll let them out and, you know, try to absolve them of their cases as well. but he's left a just a

mountain of despair and destruction around him while he walks away alone, you know. >> well, donald's made it clear he's going to use the justice department in totally inappropriate ways that are unfair. but i want to criticize judge marchand here. i think he blew an opportunity to teach. he could have said. but for this supreme court action. but for your becoming president in a few days, i would have sent you to prison, particularly because you're a recalcitrant criminal. now, a lot of people have gone to prison because of my stories, some of them for such long sentences. they died behind bars. >> and in every case where the criminal defendants spit in the face of the judge, which is what donald metaphorically did throughout this trial. >> even today at the sentencing, they got tougher sentences. >> in one case, a judge literally doubled from eight years to 16 years. >> the prison sentence of one of

the people whom i exposed. and i think the judge had a great opportunity here to teach the american people, most of whom don't have our level of knowledge about law and politics, about the system and how it should work. >> and he didn't take advantage of that. and i think that's a tragedy. >> well, we're going to leave it there. i will disagree with you on judge mershon. i think he was heroic. he faced death threats, as did alvin bragg, to bring these cases. ridicule in the case of alvin bragg, they brought it anyway. and i think it's poetic justice that it is only the state of new york that has ever held this man accountable for anything he's ever done. crimes, civil issues. only new york has ever hold him accountable. so i will slightly disagree. i rarely disagree with david cay johnston, but i will disagree on that. i do think he should have gone to jail though for what he did. i do agree 100% on that. kathryn christian, george conway, katie phang, david cay johnston thank you, my friends. and coming up, the latest on the devastating wildfires in california. i will talk to two members of congress

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comm and get paid when you say. >> the destructive wildfires in the greater los angeles area have killed at least ten people, but authorities say the true death toll is still unknown. the

next 48 hours will be a crucial period for emergency crews as wind conditions have eased, but santa ana winds are expected to surge again early next week. the eaton fire, affecting areas in pasadena, altadena, sierra madre and la la la canada flintridge, have destroyed an estimated 7000 structures. more than 57,000 structures in los angeles county remain at risk. joining me now is congresswoman judy chu, whose district includes the area where the eaton fire is burning, and congressman george whitesides, whose district includes santa clarita, near where the hurst fire is burning. he's also co-founder of mega fire action, an organization dedicated to solving our nation's mega fire crisis. very convenient to have you here tonight. thank you both for being here. representative chu, i want to start with you. the status in your. please tell us the status of homes and community, the community in your

district. >> well, i went with the fema administrator to tour the devastated area yesterday. i could not believe my eyes. >> i saw block after block of homes that were burned to the ground. and i saw major institutions that were burned to the ground, such as the altadena country club and the pasadena jewish center. >> the altadena community church, a thriving mom and pop small business area called the mariposa junction of altadena. >> it was unbelievable. basically, altadena has been flattened and pasadena, of course, has been terribly affected. so i just cannot believe the devastation that was there. it was apocalyptic. >> and i know that the altadena area, you know, we've learned those of us who are not from california have learned that

this is a really important area for black families that were allowed to move there in the 1920s and 30s these some of these families have had these homes for, you know, 60, 70 years and also japanese american families who, after internment, moved to that area of pasadena and altadena. do these families have any hope of restitution at this point? what is the state of insurance coverage in these areas? >> well, the fema director assured these victims that they would definitely have all the resources of fema as well as of the sba disaster assistance. so, yes, the absolute intention is to get them to be able to rebuild and have those resources. the disaster loan resources that they need as well as the grants. and you're absolutely right about this being a very diverse population. there were black families that

came after the jim crow era in the 20s and 30s. they wanted to find a place of equality and where they could have a high quality of life. so they came here, especially since this was a welcoming place that did not have redlining. and so it is a beautiful area. >> i'm so sorry all this happened. it is shocking and horrific. representative whitesides, please talk about what's happening in your district as well. >> we have had a somewhat different situation. just by almost a stroke of luck, a couple of passing firefighters happened to notice the big conflagration in our area, which was the first fire, and they were able to throw a ton of resources at it very quickly, keep that constrained to under 1000 acres. and so we have had minimal structure damage. we're not out of the woods yet. i think congressman chu, you know,

would agree that we still have many days left in this fire season. they're calling it. and so we are telling everyone that we have to stay alert, stay ready to evacuate and hope for the best as we get through this incredibly difficult moment for los angeles. >> and, representative whitesides, based on your expertise, do you believe this fire was natural? is it lightning strikes or do you believe it was manmade? or is that is it too early to tell? >> i think it's too early to tell. >> i know that there will be an enormous amount of investigation to figure out what the most probable cause of it is, but i think, you know, the ultimate issue is that when we have these very, very bad days, very low humidity and very high winds, it is incredibly hard to stop a fire once it gets started. and, you know, what we see is the start of a national conversation. i think about how we can keep our communities more

resilient and more protected. in a world where the intensity of fires is going to be increasing as global warming increases, and how do we protect our communities as well as we can in this new era? i think that's that's what's at stake and that's what's at hand right now. >> indeed. representative chu, there is a representative named warren, congressman named warren davidson of ohio, and he was in a fox business interview on friday. and he said about disaster relief, he said it should be contingent on policy changes in california. quote, if they want the money, then there should be consequences when they have where they have to change their policies. baselessly claiming that state officials have embraced policies that are making the problem bad or worse. i don't know what he's trying to imply there, but i will note that the states that send the most money to the federal government are almost all blue states, california being one of the largest. connecticut, massachusetts, new jersey, new york, washington send the most money, and the states that send the least intend to take money

rather than send it tend to be red states like alabama, arkansas, west virginia, mississippi. those are the taker states. what is what do you what do you make of this idea that red state members of congress are essentially threatening california, that if its policies, i assume he means on immigration aren't changed? no money. >> well, wildfires don't have a political affiliation. they don't have a political party. people are suffering and people are suffering regardless of what their background is. they need help right now waiting for certain policy changes to take place is just punishment, but also it just will hurt. so many of these folks who have to flee this terrible devastation with just their their pets and their children in hand. they are there with nothing, and they are

trying to return to a normal life. >> representative judy chu and george whitesides, thank you both and we are praying for your communities and hopefully the recovery will begin very soon and these fires will start to end. coming up, my interview with russian opposition politicians vladimir and evgenia kara-murza for the first time since vladimir was released from a serbian from a siberian penal colony earlier this year, you colony earlier this year, you don't want t (♪♪) (♪♪) bounce back fast from heartburn with tums gummy bites, and love food back. (♪♪) up to ten days and travel without ever unpacking the comfort of home on the go.

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beats for heart health support than any other beat brand at super beats. >> com. >> faithful viewers will be familiar with vladimir kara-murza, the journalist and historian turned political activist who until just a few months ago was a prisoner of russian president vladimir putin's regime. he was imprisoned in 2022 on charges of treason and spreading false information after speaking out against putin's war in ukraine, and was later sentenced to 25 years in prison. at one point, kara-murza was transferred to a remote siberian penal colony, where he was held in an isolation cell, but he continued writing in prison, including regular columns for the washington post, for which he was awarded the pulitzer prize in commentary, and he continued to speak out against the russian dictator. his wife evgenia also took up his fight during his imprisonment and never stopped

fighting for his release. but while vladimir kara-murza expected to die in vladimir putin's gulag, just as his friend and fellow dissident alexei navalny did in february of last year, last august, kara-murza found himself suddenly released as part of the largest prisoner swap since the cold war. after two years in prison, vladimir and evgenia kara-murza and their family were welcomed to the white house by president biden, and vladimir kara-murza has been working steadily since his release, lobbying the west to take stronger action against putin and vladimir and evgeniya kara-murza. join me now. and i just said this to you privately in the green room. i will say it to you again. it is such a relief to see you, because the last time i saw you actually sitting exactly in the position we are now, i asked you why you would even think to go back to russia. number one, why on earth did you go? and how surprised were you when you were released?

>> well, look, i'm a russian politician. a politician has to be in his or her own country. cannot be any other way. i mean, we did found out during covid that a lot of professions can be done remotely or by zoom, but politics is not one of them. yeah. and to me, this is a question of basic ethics, because what moral right. what i have to call my fellow russian citizens to stand up to putin's dictatorship if i wasn't prepared to do it myself. >> and were you surprised by your release? did you? what did you know about your release prior to it happening? >> i knew absolutely nothing. this was a really bizarre story, really unexpected, completely surreal. this began in late july for me. i was sitting in my solitary confinement cell in the maximum security prison in omsk, in western siberia, when suddenly the prison officers came into my cell and escorted me to some sort of a prison office. there was a small room with a desk, a chair, a big portrait of vladimir putin on

the wall and on a desk. there was a preprinted template of some kind, a blank sheet of paper and a pen, and the officers told me to sit down and write this with my own hands. so i looked at it and it was a petition for pardon addressed to vladimir putin. and initially i thought this was a prank. so i just started laughing and looked at them. but their facial expression did not indicate that they were in the mood for joking. so i said, what is this? and they said, well, please write this and sign this. i said, i'm never writing something like this. i said, why not? i said, well, because i do not consider vladimir putin to be a legitimate president of my country. i consider him to be a usurper, a dictator and a murderer. and i'm not going to ask him of anything. and secondly, i'm certainly not going to admit my guilt because that's what they wanted as well, because i'm not the one who is who is the criminal here. the real criminals are those people who are sitting in the kremlin who have started this war of aggression against ukraine, not those of us who are in prison because we had opposed it. so that was that a really bizarre episode. and then a couple of days later, i was woken up in

the middle of the night, told to get up and get my things ready in ten minutes. and at that moment, i was absolutely certain that i was going to be let out and be executed. but instead of the nearby forest, they took me to an airport and flew me to moscow. >> it is absolutely extraordinary, you know. and evgeny, you know, when i had the chance to interview brittney griner, who was an american obviously incarcerated in putin's gulags as well, and one of the points that she made and including in her book is that, you know, the ordeal becomes an ordeal for the family as well. there's a certain incarceration for the family as well, for the wife and the children, because you have no idea whether you'll ever see your loved one again. talk to me about how you handled this situation. and how aware and how afraid were you given what happened to alexei navalny? >> i do believe that what vladimir has been doing for all of these years is right. >> i do believe that this is the right thing to do, and this is definitely worth fighting for. >> so when he was imprisoned, i

thought that the best way i could help him was by continuing his work. >> my question to you then, vladimir kara-murza, and you know, we laud your bravery, and you are determined to continue to fight for a free russia. but i think for a lot of americans, what we've seen is vladimir putin entrenched. he now will have a very friendly regime in the united states that supports his territorial ambitions in ukraine. i read a recent interview in which you said that you're an optimist about russia and you're an optimist about the us. how can you be optimistic when so many americans fear that essentially vladimir putin has won? >> well, first of all, on your point that vladimir putin seems entrenched, he does indeed seem entrenched, but seem is the key word here. the soviet regime seemed entrenched and it seemed to be there forever. and then it collapsed in three days in august 1991. and nobody, nobody saw it coming. this is how things usually happen in russia. so you ask, what makes me an optimist? because i'm a

historian. and actually, i have to say that my education as a historian probably never came as useful to me as i did when i was in prison, because it sort of puts your perspective into place. nobody's ever been able to stop the course of history, and vladimir putin is not going to be an exception. russia will be a democratic country, a normal, modern european democratic country. and i'm certain that this is going to happen much quicker than people may expect. >> you. >> you make us all optimistic. vladimir and evgenia kara-murza. so brave, so valiant, and we are so relieved to see you. thank you both so much. >> it's wonderful to be back in your studio. thank you so much. >> you guys can fight. >> i think we can do it today. >> and that was just a portion of my interview with the kara-murza. you can watch the full interview on youtube at msnbc.com/joy. and up next. it's been a very newsy week and i will tell you who won it. the week that is. we'll be right

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face kit at laura geller.com. >> it's monday night, it's monday everyone. we're happy to have you here on this monday night. how concerned are you about how we could use this proximity to power to benefit himself financially? >> is there room to do some oversight over the trump announced nominees? >> what would you do as dnc chair to better communicate with this generation? you feel like the us government is starting to figure out how to do this. >> everything matters. >> lots to get to is every monday night like this. >> on monday night. >> it is friday, which means it's time to play our favorite game. who won the week? and this week i have a bunch of winners, starting with the leader of canada's green party, elizabeth may, who fired back at trump's harebrained musings about making canada the 51st state with humor and wit, proposing that california, oregon and washington state join canada instead. i think they might like

that. then there are all of the firefighters working nonstop to contain the fires raging through los angeles, including firefighters from mexico and canada, who are jumping in to help, and those incarcerated firefighters who are being forced to help and are also risking their lives. there's also pope francis, who appointed cardinal robert mcelroy as the next archbishop of washington, which is notable because cardinal mcelroy is a vociferous supporter of immigrants. as followers of jesus are supposed to be. and last but surely not least, the amazing new yorkers who helped finally hold donald trump accountable for his crimes. alvin bragg, the manhattan da, and his prosecution team who ignored the haters and did the work. judge juan merchan, who would not back down from the rule of law. and the 12 jurors who heard the evidence and found trump guilty of 34 counts of felonies. this whole amazing group of humans won the week. and that is tonight's reidout all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on all in. >> never b