rson sandi was and the reflection they see of her in her children. your dad says that he sees your mom in you and your sister. do you think she would be proud of you and what you've accomplished? i think she would. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. >> good morning, and welcome to this saturday edition of morning joe. weekend. it was a busy week with a certification of the electoral college votes and the funeral of former president jimmy carter. let's get right to some of the conversations that you might have missed.

>> i was thinking economically about america as i was going past other embassies and looking. >> i was thinking about what i'm hearing from across the world, what i heard my recent trip that we discussed to london and to europe and economically, america is a colossus right now in a way that it hasn't. maybe it was this way at the turn of the century, but but it seems that whether it's russia or china, our competitors are in retreat. europe's struggling, its economy stagnant. britain has cut itself off from the eu. and still it's i won't say it's in sort of pre thatcher status, but it's close. we talk about and i only ask you to after steve rattner's charge i'll ask you this because i sometimes i don't think americans understand how the

rest of the world looks at us. i can say everywhere i'm going, it's it is unlike the last 20 or so years. it's now like economically with or saying that we have animal spirits that, that that other quoting the great british economist that other countries don't. >> it's very true. and if you look at what's really powering american growth and valuations, it's these extraordinary seven tech companies and the ai, the expectations for ai as yet, you know, they haven't begun to be fulfilled. but nowhere else other than china has any pretensions to competing with the united states in this space. europe just doesn't have any presence. why is that in ai? >> why why why why why isn't it. >> why not britain? >> why not? why not europe? what has happened? >> because they appear to be just throwing up their hands, saying we can't compete with

america in this, in this area. >> so, i mean, britain has had quite a bit of, you know, innovation in this area. deepmind was bought by google, you know, at a price that's a fraction of what it's worth today. there's quite a lot of startup activity in pockets of scandinavia, in the netherlands and in britain. but as a whole, the continent is fragmented and divided, and it doesn't have one deep liquid capital market. it doesn't have sand hill road, it doesn't have a big venture capital and risk taking and bankruptcy is good kind of culture, right, that you need to create these kinds of spectacular bets that we continue to see in silicon valley. so that's one one of the things the other is, you know, china is china is really sort of it's sort of deflating like a soufflé. it really is. four years ago when biden came in, it was still very much, you know, its growth rates were still fairly ominous. they're not anymore. it's treading water.

china is in a weak position. china, you know, is we this is a moment where we've got a lot of leverage over china because it wants to keep things quiet and grow. and it's not growing. it's got a demographic crisis. and so if you look at all of these things, i don't think it's that america is this spectacular, you utopia, but it's the it's the least bad, the least ugly. >> basically saying we're the you're basically saying we're the tallest building in elmira, new york. >> yeah. i was about to say something politically incorrect, but yeah. yeah. >> so, so something like that. >> perish the thought though. >> again, i mean, it's important for americans to understand this because we've been hearing for years that china was going to overtake us. i will say since 2006 i've been mocking that. i said, this sounds a lot like 1989. >> exactly. >> you might remember when japan. >> japan was the japan that can say no. >> they were the juggernaut. they were going to wipe us off the map. they were god. >> they bought pebble beach and

30 rock, so they were going to destroy us. i heard the same thing with china. china. 20 years later, they have a demographic time bomb that is going off right now. and she has just completely strangled. innovation has taken their most successful people and thrown them in jail, or threatened them with jail and basically made the calculation, we don't want you to be too successful economically. >> there's this push pull. >> i mean, it is a command society, right? it's a control society. it's not not really communist anymore, but it is controlled by the chinese communist party, nominally. and the party does not want to share power with a bunch of independent minded billionaires who were off doing whatever they, you know, whatever they want to do. that's not what she wants. he wants everybody under control. so as soon as somebody, you know, like a jack ma or somebody starts to rise and

become like our tech titans, he, you know, smashes them down with a mallet, essentially. and so, yes, that that puts a damper on, on, on growth and innovation and, and potential in a way that just doesn't happen here. and if china's got problems, it's got at the same time i mean it's an amazing they've come an amazing long way. and if you look at, you know, you talk to anybody who knows about military affairs, for example, and they say, no, no, no, seriously, take china seriously. right. but, but but as a society, they got problems. >> we'll have much more of morning joe weekend after the break. >> you you're making everything orange. >> we're showing we're consumer cellular gets great coverage. we use the same powers as big wireless. so you get the same

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start controlling your body odor better everywhere. >> donald trump plans to reshape the us government. >> democrats have wasted no time in laying the groundwork to fight the incoming trump administration. >> donald trump wants a presidential cabinet full of loyalists. don't miss the weekend, saturday and sunday mornings at 8:00 on msnbc. >> each week on my podcast, i'm joined by uniquely qualified guests who help me take a big picture look at the issues like representative jasmine crockett, late night host seth meyers, former attorney general eric holder, and many more. >> why is this happening? listen now. >> welcome back to morning joe weekend. let's pick up with the conversation we were having just

before the break. >> and so, curt, we had you on the show. i think it was for a month or two. i'm not sure. it all kind of blurred together, but for a very long time to talk about what what i as a conservative and you as a liberal, believe actually is one of the great threats to this, this strong american economy. that's what scott galloway talked about before. he talked about the concentration of these monopolies, these five, six, seven monopolies that are monopolies. there's just no other way. if you look at a classical definition of monopoly, monopoly five, six and seven of these silicon valley companies are monopolies. and then the income disparity. we've had the greatest transfer of wealth, redistribution of wealth in the history of mankind from the, the 80s and really starting in the early 1990s to today, going from the middle class to the richest billionaires. and

scott galloway talked about it last hour. just saying the tax system is rigged. people like him that make hundreds of millions of dollars basically pay ten, 11% of taxes. somebody that's working and starting a small business in new york state or other places paying like 50, 52, 53% of taxes to governments up and down the line. and while the richest of the rich have like maybe a 6% effective tax rate. >> yeah. >> and you mentioned earlier, joe, a moment ago, about the incredible economic robustness and growth of the united states right now. he said, oh, it's a we're a colossus right now. we're like the turn of the century. >> well, i think that's that's a very apt comparison, because what we saw, what we're seeing, the donald trump wants to do what we certainly saw at this incredible press conference yesterday is his embrace of the

kind of robber baron, gilded age corruption that was endemic at that period, and that we had the teapot dome scandal back then. >> we had we had this just brazen corruption that led to, in addition to the great depression and reform in the new deal, just incredible inequality. we have the highest inequality, of course, since the 1920s as well. >> so but the that he put it on parade during that press conference saying, oh, here's my emirati billionaire golf course developer partner. >> we're going to give him some government deals to build data centers all over the united states. >> oh, my son eric is off in the middle east building some trump towers right now. >> oh, by the way, the saudi golf tour is doing great. business is just announced. >> they're going to bring a bring their two were to my hotel

the doral in miami and on and o. >> his his mideast envoy. you know who is his also his cryptocurrency partner was there talking about israel and gaza. so the merger of just blatant and brazen economic financial corruption with his foreign policy. >> and then, of course, the foreign policy of the era era, the imperialism back in the in the turn of the century, when we took cuba, took the philippines, took puerto rico by a little war that his his beloved william mckinley, the republican president at the time, started. >> so that's the, you know, history, history repeating or rhyming that donald trump wants to bring back. we he wants to go back to that to those terrible times that, by the way, didn't end well. >> you know, if described an oligarchy in this country, a corrupt oligarchy of wealthy

people. >> i mean, scott galloway pointed out that ten years ago there were what did he say, 500 billionaires in america. >> and today there are 2500. >> and we have the ruling or the decision yesterday by mark zuckerberg to take basically no, no, no responsibility for anything that anyone does on facebook that gets me to the country itself and to our children. it's frightening to think of how many children and was pointed out a couple of times today already, the percentage of people, young people on facebook who derive all of their news from facebook or tiktok. so if you leave the coasts, if you leave the east coast or the west coast, you're looking at a news desert. now, local newspapers, local news is gone. >> it's we're reverting to tiktok and stuff like that for our children. and we have the president elect of the united

states. just yesterday decrying what a terrible country this is. >> right. >> what was the exact quote, willie, that he used? >> what a horrible place, he said, talking about our election process. >> what a horrible place. >> what a horrible place. >> how do you convince people that the america that we live in, the america that the roots of america that we know about. >> i'll add to that, kurt, and you can respond to this because everything you described and what, you know, trump was doing at his press conference yesterday sounds very shocking to us. to many. i also think that it's fair to say it's self-defeating and self-destructive for him and not in his best interest, which is another conversation, but at the same time, isn't this exactly what his supporters want to see? wouldn't people who voted for him say, oh, that's great, and how do we how do we navigate that disconnect?

>> well, i think one thing we have to remember and look at is that the 49.5% of the electorate who voted for him are not of one mind, right? i mean, there there is a there are some of them who the low information voters that put him over the top. yeah. they want the big i'm a i'm a selfish, shameless bully. and look at him he's being that. and let's make you know america bigger. well, like like me, donald trump is thinking like a selfish bully who cares about nothing but money. but we'll see if everybody goes with that for how long? we'll see. >> also, as he replays his greatest hits as he did yesterday. >> oh i'm going to stop windmills. really? no you're not. >> i mean he won the election. so i'm just saying there are people that support this. >> they know him. he won the election. >> you know he won the election. >> we'll see. >> also, you know, in starting in two weeks. if to what degree his tune changes, he will still complain about what biden did, but he'll say, oh look,

inflation is down. >> he will then go through the steve rattner charts without without the full context. >> and suddenly he'll be taking credit starting on january 21st. joe. >> yeah. you know, it's so fascinating. again. yeah. the 21st is going to make all the difference in the world. and suddenly america is going to be made great again. i just, you know, you look mark leibovich at the consumer confidence index and republicans, you know, oh it's the worst thing ever. this this economy is the worst economy. we oh, we feel horrible about ourselves. yet donald trump wins. republicans shoot straight up. >> those lines on the graph. >> went like this. the democrats went down. oh, now democrats are saying this is the worst economy we've ever had. and so, again, i think, i think so much of this america is a terrible country, lasts until about 1201 on january the 20th. and that's

when republicans are going to be saying america. well, it does give you a window, though, into the power of political messaging. i mean, when you look at so much that has been mentioned in this hour, whether from scott galloway or steve rattner or whoever. i mean, juxtaposed with what donald trump was saying yesterday and what so much of the country believes, probably based on a lot of republican messaging led by donald trump. >> you do have a sense. and look, i mean, this is something after so many people believed everything that donald trump said about the economy, about how this was just like this iconic economy that he presided over. >> i always thought that democrats actually might learn a lesson during the biden years, that maybe it was politically smart to chest thump a little more, to sort of take one page out of the trump playbook and actually work really hard to sell your economy. and democrats, you know, i think take a very kind of supercilious view of marketing, branding, things that they tend to look

down on, things that donald trump is known for and i think has has really sort of used to great political effect and also to the effect of branding the economy and making people feel good about the economy when he's in office. you know, the thing is, sam stein, i noticed the first, the his first term, he even got host. i've said this before on msnbc to say, well, of course this is the greatest economy of all time, when in fact, by the numbers, it was ranked seventh in gdp growth post-world war two. but he just you know, we had the whole rollout of biden nomics. let me show you, if you look at this chart manufacturing pur ratio, read the briefing book or whatever, and here's the briefing book where donald trump says this is the greatest economy of all. right. and but it's just a difference between how democrats sell it and how republicans sell it. if republicans are selling it, than it is greatest, greatest economy of all time. you've never had it

better. you know, this is unbelievable. he's the worst ever under whatever something that democrats certainly recently i guess since bill clinton. because bill clinton could do it. the history, the history of this. >> i mean, the last three democratic presidents, clinton, 94, stan greenberg and the pollsters say, do not talk about how great the economy is, because you'll seem out of touch. people who don't think the economy is great will think you're completely, you know, out of it. obama comes in great recession. really hard to say. >> things are getting better because people don't feel it right. >> biden comes in. covid had just hit 20 million plus. >> people have lost their job. >> it's really hard to say. >> and inflation, of course, really hard to say. >> well, things are actually getting better. and in fact we are comparatively better. that said, trump's this is he manifests things into into existence and one of the great accomplishments he had over the campaign was convincing the american public that his presidency ended in 2019, that the covid did not matter and wasn't under his watch. and all those jobs that were lost, all

the people that died, all the suffering that took place was not his responsibility. >> and frankly, he convinced enough people to win. >> it is the power of nostalgia. we talked about it yesterday. the power of nostalgia. people that went to vote. and i completely agree with kurt. you cannot say that this 49.9% all voted for this or all voted for that because i've heard it. we've all talked to a lot of trump voters who are like, yeah, i don't really like the guy. i wouldn't invite him over to my house for thanksgiving dinner, but i voted for him. a lot of, you know, a lot of swing voters have said that, but there's the power of nostalgia. and i think we've we've overlooked covid too much because, as sam said, people just remember things were better with trump. things were better before the pandemic. things were better economically. groceries were cheaper. gas was

cheaper. et cetera. et cetera. and it's that nostalgia, that pre-covid nostalgia. people want to go back to how things were in the before times. and i think that's something that, again, not just democrats. i think a lot of us missed. >> morning joe weekend will be >> morning joe weekend will be right back. when we started feeding bogie the farmer's dog, he lost so much weight. pre-portioned packs makes it really easy to keep him lean and healthy. in the morning, he flies up the stairs and hops up on my bed. in the past, he would not have been able to do any of those things. thoughts, or open your eyes and get out here. >> there's only one vehicle lineup that embraces everything the cold has to offer. >> the official vehicles of winter jeep. there's only one

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adventure with snoopy right by your side as you play solitaire. solve challenges and reach new solve cafter last month'sh new heightsmassive solar flareelt so added a 25th hour to the day, businesses are wondering "what should we do with it?" i'm thinking company wide power nap. [ employees snoring ] anything can change the world of work. from hr to payroll, adp designs for the next anything. exclusive reporting that the incoming trump administration is actively considering carrying out a high profile raid targeting undocumented immigrants in the dc area. three people familiar with the discussions reveal the raid could take place within days of trump taking office to send a message. joining us now, one of the reporters who broke the story, nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. >> julia. >> good morning. so what more can you tell us about what the trump team is considering here? >> well, willie, of course

nothing is final yet, but we know that they're in discussions to try to figure out what resources they have to carry out workplace raids in the d.c. area that could be in maryland, d.c. proper, or in northern virginia. >> they could target a number of sectors. they're looking at things like agriculture, hospitality and health care. >> this is to carry out what would be a shock and awe first operation. and it could be done really as soon as inauguration day. this is because, of course, the president campaigned on making the incoming president campaigned on making this the largest deportation operation in american history, and he wants something to show for it when he comes into office. but workplace raids are historically very expensive and logistically difficult. >> they take a long time to plan so that when ice barges into a workplace and starts arresting people who they suspect to be living and working in the u.s. illegally, they know exactly who they're arresting and they don't make mistakes. >> so some current officials have spoken to say they actually worry about the risk here.

>> if they try to take an action like this too early. >> so, julia, we've heard from tom homan, who is going to be trump's border czar or immigration czar, whatever the title is. exactly. who has said we are going to target criminals, hardened criminals first, that it's going to be a very difficult task to deport, as donald trump has promised some 11 million people here illegally. but how does that work, exactly? what does that look like as a practical question? >> well, willie, i think this reporting shows that they can't only target, they can only arrest the people who are the biggest threats. if they're looking at workplace raids, for example, most of the people who would be working in those places wouldn't be these hardened criminals that they want to go after. and if they're going to do a big sweep like that, of course they're going to be picking up people who have committed no other crime other than being in this country and working here without authorization. these could be families. there could be fathers who are deported while their children are at school. when you're talking about a workplace raid, now, we do know that there are over 400,000 people, and ice

is non-detained docket. that means they're at large in the united states. some of them could be serving time in prison who do have criminal convictions of some kind. so obviously they would want to start looking at that population. there are also people who already have final orders of deportation. they've exhausted all of their remedies for asylum or any other kind of benefit. >> and they were told by a judge to leave the country that's who they want to target. >> but this kind of discussion really illuminates the fact that there is also a very strong voice within the incoming administration to say, cast the net as wide as you can and boost those deportation numbers. >> willy. >> yeah, this was a key promise of donald trump during the campaign. it looks like he wants to deliver on it right away. julia, you talked to the current ice director about the biden administration's handling of the immigration issue. what did he tell you? >> yeah, willie, this was a really surprising and candid interview. >> this is outgoing acting ice director p.j. lechleitner, who sat down with me and told me

about some of the frustrations. he thinks that the current administration could have been more transparent and forthcoming on the immigration issue and, frankly, that biden may have taken action too late to solve the border crisis. >> this is someone who's been with dhs since its inception. he's a 30 year career in law enforcement, served republicans and democrats. >> i think some of his remarks here are really enlightening. take a listen. we saw millions of immigrants come across the border. and i know you're not focused on the border, but you know, you're focused on the ramifications related to it. sure, a lot of that came down. those numbers drastically fell, especially starting in june when the new executive action went into place. >> do you think that biden should have taken that action earlier? yes. >> yes, absolutely. >> yes, he should have. >> the administration should have taken that action earlier. >> and i think the career people in dhs would have liked that. >> and all of us in dhs, quite frankly, i don't know if anybody in dhs would have wanted that earlier. you know, maybe there's

some counselors here or there that don't like this kind of stuff, but law enforcement is always going to be on that side where we want, you know, some tighter controls because we for a while there, you remember it was 10,000 plus. >> biden had an exit interview this week where he was asked about his regrets, and he did not mention the border. >> does that surprise you? >> no, it doesn't surprise me, but it's unfortunate because i think we could have done more. >> what specifically? >> we could have put more resources to it, either at cbp and for the border itself and with ice. and we could have went and tried to get more of these individuals who are on the non-detained docket, and we could have detain more people, and we could have removed more people. >> and i think we could use more resources and support, and we could have done that in the last, you know, four years. >> is it possible to increase your number of deportations under your current resources, under our current resources? >> no, because we're basically

at we're burnt. like i mentioned before, we're burning hot. we're at maximum resource capacity at this point. we're going to need more money and resources to increase. and with more money and resources, we can increase detention. we can increase removal operations. listen, there's still a whole immigration process. so people have to go through and either get you either get go through and get some benefit that comes out of it and you know, asylum, you know, you name it or you're ordered removed and it has to go through the immigration proceedings and go through there, but with more resources, with more money, we can do more. >> so a very candid conversation, we should say. >> that was lechleitner speaking from his own opinions. >> that's not the view of this administration. and we're reaching out to the white house for comment. but what this shows is that, you know, for a lot of people who are career dhs, there was some frustration and really a thinking that they were doing a lot of work that wasn't being recognized because in at least

in leitner's opinion, the biden administration wasn't doing more. >> and also to talk about it. and also, when you talk about those resources, that's when he's looking at a new administration who's promising mass deportations. he says unless they have more money, it's really not possible. >> but a fascinating interview, because you have an ice director saying now publicly to you, julie, what we've heard privately from them for several years, nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. julia, thanks so much for bringing it to us. we appreciate it. and we should point out, elise, that border apprehensions are at lows not seen since in the trump administration right now, but too little, too late for a lot of people, including for the electoral hopes of democrats. >> and only after the june executive order and that interview from julia with the ice director was really revealing, because he wasn't holding back in saying he was dissatisfied with what they had accomplished, he felt that more could have been done. he thought the rules were too lax, and he thought that, you know, asylum became a good opportunity, in

fact, for migrants crossing the border. and that, i think, in and of itself is quite an interview that says everything about the 2024 election. >> and there's no doubt there's been a lot of second guessing on the political side of this, that the biden team should have acted sooner on the border, you know, and that they didn't do enough to promote the idea that it was the republicans who scuttled the bipartisan bill in over the summer and that we, as we turn the page to the incoming trump administration. and julia's terrific reporting there, lines up with what we've heard about these detention camps. they're going to build outside major cities. they're going to have some high profile raids. the question is, do they just target hardened criminals? well, it sounds like maybe not if they're going to go after work places and if they're going to do these, do deportations at these massive numbers, it's going to change american society in some ways. and that could trigger a real protest movement. we'll have to see if they try to pair it with some border measures as well, the same measures they voted down over the last few months. >> the new trump administration promising to start here in the next couple of weeks as soon as they get into office. >> up next, cnbc's andrew ross

sorkin joins us with insight on mark zuckerberg's decision to end the fact checking program for facebook and instagram. morning joe weekend. we'll be morning joe weekend. we'll be right ba watch your step! that's why visionworks makes it simple to schedule an eye exam that works for you. even if you have a big trip to plan around. thanks! i mean, i can see you right now if that's...convenient. visionworks. see the difference. if you have heart failure or chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life, because there are places you'd like to be. (♪♪) serious side effects include increased ketones in blood or urine and bacterial infection between the anus and genitals, both which may be fatal, severe allergic reactions, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. stop taking and tell your doctor right away if you have nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, rash, swelling, trouble breathing or swallowing. tell your doctor about lightheadedness, weakness,

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feeling tired, headache, muscle aches, and fever. whether you've had another pneumococcal vaccine or not ask your doctor or pharmacist about capvaxive. (♪♪) report the facts out together. there are several stories breaking what protects the country? what protects the constitution? do you still believe that the collapse of the regime is inevitable? what's your level of concern and fear for your own future? >> america is dealing with many issues, from grocery prices to gun violence. >> it has been over 400 days since the war in gaza started. you're watching trump hire a fiercely loyal staff. much more to come here tonight. stay with us. >> meta ceo mark zuckerberg announced a series of major changes for the company, including get this, the end of its fact checking program for

facebook and instagram. it's going to be replaced with a system similar to the community notes that's found on the social media platform x. let's bring in right now the co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box and new york times columnist andrew ross sorkin. andrew. it just goes from bad to worse with with meta and with with so many others. i, you know, anne applebaum, who of course, is a brilliant writer and writes on on autocrats and misinformation, has talked and warned about for some time about the fact that meta, facebook, instagram x other companies are deliberately pushing down some threads, deliberately pushing down, suppressing political journalism and gutting its fact checking system. and now mark zuckerberg does this and he, he says that there's a shifting

political and social landscape and the desire to embrace free speech. yeah. what is that like what we've seen on x, where misinformation is, is worse today than it's ever been. well, let me add a couple of notes to this. in addition to those things that you just described, they added dana white, the head of the ufc, to their board in the last 24 hours, just give you a little bit of political context of what's happening here. nick clegg, who you may remember was running their policy business. he was effectively he's now leaving the company. the other thing they said, interestingly, was to the extent that they are going to have people working for facebook policing, if you will, content, they are moving out of california. those people in that department to the state of texas and other states. so just to put sort of the full picture here, community notes, by the way, i think in some respects is

actually a very good product in that it's nice that there are people that will able to correct the record quickly. the problem is, i think we all know, though, is that, first of all, clickbait. the crazier it is, the farther it goes. and historically, the correction never gets the same kind of airtime that the first right post ever gets. and so here we are in this sort of new world. but i think this is not just a meta or facebook story. this is a tech story across the board. whether it's this and obviously mark zuckerberg had gone down to see the president or president elect recently separately. you know, you have amazon making a documentary deal with melania trump. i mean, we can go through the list of what is happening here, but this is a major shift and cash that deal a significant deal for the melania trump documentary that just was reported this morning. >> the meta thing, they say it's for open expression and free speech, but it is precisely in line with what trump and his allies have been calling for a long time. you know, we're

seeing this slowly on every site. and then, of course, there's the video based social media apps tik tok that have no fact checking whatsoever, not even not even a community notes. >> well, and this goes back to the larger question, which is, and i doubt we're going to get any kind of new rules on this in the next four years. but do we think that social media companies should be held to the same liability standards that we are right here? and that's that's the question. and then there's the question of who's supposed to control all of this. and by the way, i will submit to you that, that i think some of the algorithmic changes that went on during covid and other things like that went too far. and i think part of what we're seeing is a, a pendulum that is swinging from one way that might have gone too far on one end. now to another way. i imagine in a couple of years from now, i think people will say this is way too far. and then the question is, where does it go next? but that's yeah, i mean, they're they're using that though for, for such cynical reasons because of mistakes

that, that were made by twitter and by other social media platforms in the past. they're using that and have used that as an excuse. now to go to the in the other direction in the most extreme way. and you're so right. what's the old saying, that a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still, still getting its its boots on, its pants on, whatever it's getting on. and that that is the problem with this community policing is that the lies go out there. they spread they rapidly and, and, and you have so much misinformation that's being spread on all of these platforms, especially acts that the truth barely stands a chance on the platform of catching up to it. andrew. well, i think that's and there's going to be a big question, not just how this is going to affect them. regulatorily meaning, you know, does trump act in a much sort of kinder way to towards these companies, which, by the way, there are lawsuits currently outstanding by the us government against companies including meta and others. so that's part of it. but the other

question is what the user base is going to think and stand for. you know, you go into threads interestingly, and threads is sort of a counter to twitter. if threads turns into twitter, for example, what's the point? that may not be a good business ultimately for them if facebook turns it. so i don't know. you know, if the consumer is the ultimate sort of arbiter of this, where this is all really going to land. >> also might not be a mark twain quote, but it's while the truth is putting on its shoes. >> what shoes? what was the thing about pants? >> i don't know, i mean, that's true. >> i think you made i think you made that up. i think that's an andrew ross sorkin quote. it's one of these. it's one of these quotes that nobody knows exactly who said it. no. mark twain people have said it's mark twain. jonathan swift said something like it, but we're just going to go with the andrew ross sorkin quote that has to do with pants, and that's all you need to know. yeah, it was it was cnbc. andrew ross sorkin

quote. andrew, thank you so much. >> up next, academy award nominee carol kane on her new film between the temples. she joins us straight ahead to discuss the role that's garnering some real oscar buzz. garnering some real oscar buzz. morning joe weekend. we'll be introducing new eroxon gel, the first fda-cleared ed treatment available without a prescription. eroxon gel is clinically proven to work within ten minutes, so you and your partner can experience the heights of intimacy. new eroxon ed treatment gel. woman: we've waited so long for this spa day. oh yeah? shingles doesn't care. shingles is a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. grandmother: we got the best seats in the house! ha! shingles doesn't care. 99% of adults 50 years or older already have the virus that causes shingles inside them, and it can reactivate any time. guest of honor: everyone's here for my birthday! cute. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects! only shingrix is proven over 90% effective.

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bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. the second inauguration of donald trump morning joe kicks off coverage. then, at 10 a.m, rachel maddow and team will bring you key moments of the day, followed by analysis from our primetime anchors as the new term begins monday, january 20th, beginning at six on msnbc. >> you twist your words around so they don't make sense. >> i do not twist my words around rudy. >> i wouldn't make up a thing like that. >> i do not do that once in a while. >> once in a great one. are you trying to give me failure? >> may i come in? yeah. >> i don't think i understand any of this, but. come in. i suppose you want to have someone to talk to, right? >> talk is cheap. i want your body. ever since prince humperdinck fired him, his

confidence is shattered. >> why'd you say that name? you promised me that you would never say that name. >> what? >> humpty dumpty. humpty. humpty. sneaking. >> coming in, coming in. i'm not listening to parenting is all about you give and you give. and you end up cold, hungry and handcuffed to a bulldozer. >> i work down at a temple sinai. i'm a cantor. you're a cancer. >> so interesting. because i'm an aquarius with cancer. >> i'm a cancer center. i sing at the services. >> i can't. that is a really good gig. >> wow, that is a great look at the incredible, extraordinary career of emmy award winning, academy award nominated actor carol kane. >> that last clip, a scene from her new film between the temples, playing alongside jason schwartzman. the new york times has put carol on its short list for potential oscar nominees in the category of best supporting

actress for her role as karla, a 70 year old yes, 70 year old bar mitzvah student who sparks an unexpected connection with the grieving cantor at her local. >> i love everything about this. >> carol joins us now. carol. good morning. it is so good to see you. >> i'm so excited. my mother, joy kane, we watch every morning. so thank you. i'm like a big fan here. >> and you're going to nominate your mom for the 50 over 50. i am. okay. >> good composer. >> good morning, joy kane. >> we're happy to have you with us. you are hilarious. watching that clip, you said i'm not dying or anything, am i? >> this is like, you know, your life is flashing before. like i haven't seen the world's greatest lover. the one with gene wilder in a million years. that's exciting. >> what do you think when you see that back and you look at your career in that way and see all you've. you've accomplished. >> i. the first word that comes into my mind is lucky. you know that i've been so lucky to work with so many great people and great scripts and directors and just we obviously want to talk about between the temples, but

it's a perfect segue to a question i ask all of the women who are honored on the 50 over 50 list, or who are over 50 in their careers. >> how dare you? when you were in your 20s. and i'm thinking with your mother, you might actually have a different answer than most people. did you ever imagine your career after 50, or was it just sort of white space? >> i, you know, i knew i had to work for my sanity and for my heart. i was just reading al pacino's book, which you have his picture there. it's okay. and he talks about that, that, you know, somebody asked him, you know, why did you succeed? even though i wanted so badly to succeed? and al said, i didn't want to succeed. i needed to succeed. so i never thought of it in terms of fame. you know, when i was young, i just thought of it in terms of just really desperately wanting to do good work, you know? but. so i never saw a time frame. i just wanted

to be great. that's all. >> okay. >> and your fans truly spanned generations. >> my kids fell in love with kimmy schmidt during the pandemic. they're teenagers now, so they love you, too. thank you. let's talk about this film, because i said there are a lot of people talking about this film, and particularly your role in it between the temples. we should point out that a bat mitzvah usually takes place at the age of 12 or 13. in this case, yours takes place at the age of 70. for people who haven't seen the film yet, explain a little bit. >> well, my character is karla, and i've always wanted to be bat mitzvah since i was a young girl. but my parents, i was red diaper babies and they wouldn't allow it. then i got married young and my husband wouldn't allow it, and he has just recently died when the film starts and i decide i have to go for it, you know, and i get assigned this extremely depressed young cantor that jason schwartzman plays, and i, i love jason so much. he's so

brilliant and he's the one to teach me my torah portion. and it was a fascinating journey. no script to speak of to begin with. and just a lot of improvising around a script it was called. >> there's no script. >> well, there was like a almost like a chapter book, like 38 pages or something. and then the night before we would get some pages for the scene the next day, and then we would start by what was on the page, and then the director, nathan silver, he would say, no, that's not it. that's not it at all. and then we would break the whole thing open and start. is that how it goes? >> that's how it goes. >> so can i. no, that's not me. i can be a newscaster in that case. absolutely. >> so talk to us about how audiences are responding to this. and what do you want them to take away from the film? >> i think it's a love story in

a way that cannot be defined. it's a story of going for your dreams, regardless of your age. and i based a lot of my character on my mother, who moved to paris when she was 55 and started a whole new life and became a master teacher. and so it's a story of hope at any at any age with anyone. and that love is love, you know, it doesn't have to fit into a box. >> i love it. thank you. you talk about wanting to play a three dimensional woman, a woman who shows all her sides. and at one point, i think you said this. when you get to a certain age, you're mostly asked to play a grandmother, not the heart of the story. your peripheral? yes, a lot of ways. and that's what. but in this case, it's a love story. and you're the central. >> i know it's i was so lucky to get the i guess you'd call it the meat of this thing. yeah.

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wildfires, but these are urban wildfires. and that's part of the problem here. i heard mayor karen bass talking a lot about the federal response being immediate and cutting through red tape and getting these houses built back. but does that seem realistic? jen, in the grand scheme of things, looking at the big picture, i mean, i think the reality for people to understand having worked in government for two presidents is it's going to take a great deal of time. >> so the immediate response means tapping into your resources, like getting canada to send planes where they can send out water bombers. that's part of it, right? it also means having resources on the ground and numbers to call. but people, as we've seen through the visuals and amazing reporting that's happening, have lost their homes. they've lost their communities. they have nowhere to go. there's temporary fixes, but this is going to be a longer term recovery, which i think means it's going to go away into the trump administration. it's of course, going to be on the responsibility of the government in california. but people

patience is not the right word, but it needs to be. we need to keep focused on it for some time beyond the next week. >> so. >> so, michael, you as an elected official, you look at what's happened here. it seems to me there's so many parallels with katrina. i saw, you know, i was over every day because i lived in pensacola. so i was over in louisiana and mississippi for about six weeks. and you looked and the first thing you did is you looked at the immediate failure of the government to step in and do the right thing. but then as you get further away from it, you understood that new orleans had cut infrastructure, they'd taken money that was meant for the levees. they had left the people of the ninth ward vulnerable. and this was not just on mayor nagin, who did a terrible job, or i think it was governor blanco blanco who did a terrible job. this was on 30 years of mismanagement. and when you have

urban sprawl going into wild lands, right, going into wild lands, and you add on top of that just years of drought, climate change, you, you and then you have at the same time cuts in infrastructure and you have the same time a system firefighting system that is meant to douse some houses in urban centers but not handle wildfires. right. this is a systemic breakdown over a generation. >> yeah it is. >> and i know, you know, one of the joys of being the one in office at the time is that you're the one in office at the time. so it's all going to flow. >> it's not a joy, actually. >> right, right, right. you know, mayor bass has got her hands full. did not help that she had a marion berry moment where she was out of town when everything was beginning and did not get the immediacy of

turning, turning back and cutting that trip short. so you have this convergence of the infrastructure issues, the environmental issues, the in the misunderstanding of what that urban sprawl actually meant to the infrastructure. so, you know, as the fire team was noting, well, it's not that the fire the fire hydrants don't have water in them, is it that we can't get water to them? and it goes to your point. well, they don't have water in them. so. right. so people are sitting here in the immediacy of the moment. what are you doing to contain this to get control of it. and it has been a political narrative that has not helped, coupled with the crap that's on media, on social media, right? the misinformation, the misinformation and disinformation that then becomes politicized because the leadership in california is democratic, etcetera. right now, the focus has got to be on the

governor and the mayor coordinating with as many of the folks on the ground, certainly taking help from canada and other states to get this thing contained. and then you can do what you're talking about, that sort of deeper dive into, how do we avoid this in the future? because it will happen again. >> well, i mean, you look at these pictures and you're thinking, this is one of the wealthiest cities in the world. and, and yet they don't have basic infrastructure to protect. >> it took it for granted. the people there, they didn't need it. >> and again, it's so much like what happened with katrina. katrina was katrina was, was, was was not a, you know, mississippi got leveled, right. that was a hurricane event. new orleans suffered because of gross mismanagement. and i don't know how we don't see how this doesn't end up being 30 years of gross mismanagement. there's more. there's more though. here. two, two things going on. yeah.

the new york times this morning quotes greg pearce, a researcher from ucla, who echoed concerns over water systems that were designed for urban fires, not fast moving wildfires. but redesigning water systems will allow firefighters to take on broad wildfire would be enormously expensive. a more fundamental question, and this goes to building and flood zones in the state of florida. sure, this goes to allowing building in the ninth ward of new orleans, you know, under under sea level. a more fundamental question, he said, is whether it's a good idea to rebuild neighborhoods adjacent to wild lands, an issue that's been broadly debated across the west is climate change increases the frequency and intensity of fires on what is known as the wildland urban interface. so we have urban sprawl going into areas that that, again, just like building on beaches in florida,

you you're just asking for trouble. and rebuilding in these places is a really bad idea. i think that's what that gentleman means. it's a very plainly bad idea, unless you want it to happen again. right. but can we be confident that they're not going to rebuild in these areas? i mean, the interests who want to rebuild in these areas are powerful political interests, developers, builders. they have a lot of political power rich people who want those views. and, you know, why wouldn't they want those views? because so, you know, they're probably going to win this debate and they probably are going to build again, unless there are some really forward thinking people who really get serious and put their heads together and come up with a real plan. the other point real quickly, joe, every time one of these things happens, a flood in an urban area or anything like that, we get stories. the pipes are 100 years old, the pipes are 120 years old. every single time. every city i can ever think of. the pipes are 120 years old.

let's replace them. it does cost. but by the way, driver. driver in new york city, every great infrastructure project seems to have been built in the great depression. are we really are we really depending on our biggest, greatest cities, on infrastructure? that's 8100 years old and it really it really is. it's crazy. and susan again you they can rebuild in these areas if they want to. the question now is for los angeles is the same question that that people are asking in florida. how how am i going to build a new house in florida when i'm not going to be able to get insurance because insurance companies are going to flee? >> well, that's right. >> and by the way, it was already a huge crisis in california even before this, with insurance, home insurance, people were already reporting huge difficulties getting it. i can tell you firsthand, getting auto insurance, even in california, is like a nightmare. so there's the question of the livability of this metropolis that has sort of outgrown all of its structures and systems, that include the physical systems that we're seeing right now, but

also the political legal infrastructure of the place is straining. and but to jen's point, it's also an ongoing crisis. and it's very hard in the middle of trauma to, you know, make these long term, sensible decisions because it's ringing the city. and i should say, i have two siblings, two of my the four siblings live in los angeles. every single person is affected because you don't know where it's coming, how quickly. the preschool that my nephews went to burned to the ground in the neighborhood where my sister luckily doesn't live anymore. but they're sitting in pasadena wondering, do they have to leave? what to pack in their bag? and in that situation, it's very hard to make a long term decision about, you know, well, gee, how should we build back and what, you know, what are the hollywood stars going to do when they're, you know, when their mansions are gone? right. >> so but the reality on the build back is how do you then raise the money necessary to

address that 120 year old infrastructure? because now in a, in a place like la, you're talking billions of dollars to do that. and that means our citizens prepared to pay more in taxes. >> maybe billionaires should pay our. >> well, yeah, obviously. but but the point is, everyone wants the government to fix the problem, but they don't really want to address how the government has to fix the problem, both in terms of, okay, the government decides you're not. we're not allowing building beyond this perimeter because of the very thing you set up in the story. and secondly, if we if we're going to deal with this, this broken infrastructure, and it's not just in california, can we talk washington, d.c, can we talk the fact that just over in northern virginia, pipes broke just because of the cold weather this past week? so every urban community has the same infrastructure question. and now as we go forward with climate change, squeezing, squeezing in

on. exactly, exactly. i mean, now you got to balance up how you're going to pay for all the things you say we need, because if you're not willing to put the cash in place to do it, then 15 minutes from now, guess what? here we go. it's going to cost you more when it happens again. >> more morning joe weekend >> meverywhere but the seat. after the seat is leather. alan, we get it. you love your bike. we do, too. that's why we're america's number-one motorcycle insurer. but do you have to wedge it into everything? what? i don't do that. this reminds me of my bike. the wolf was about the size of my new motorcycle. have you seen it, by the way? happy birthday, grandma! really? look how the brushstrokes follow the line of the gas tank. -hey! -hey! brought my plus-one. jamie? here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need,

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presidential cabinet full of loyalists. >> don't miss the weekend, saturday and sunday mornings at 8:00 on msnbc. >> get the latest updates on future msnbc live events. thought provoking conversations, and insider perspectives while building your msnbc community. scan the qr code on your screen to sign up today. >> so, lisa, we know there will be minimal penalties. there will be no prison time, but this does enshrine once and for all that donald trump will take office as a as a convicted felon. talk to us also about why it just matters. why do you think that? do you think the judge is trying to send a signal here that the process works, that the will, the decision of a jury must be respected, that it's almost like a vote of confidence for the legal system, despite what the supreme court may or may not have said in their other decisions. absolutely. >> and i think that was the imperative for the district attorney's office to throw out their briefs and their

arguments. alvin bragg had a press conference yesterday in which he spoke about this to. the reason to have the sentencing at all is for two reasons. one, because you want donald trump to have that label attached to him. and then two, for the history books you want to record that there was some accountability, even if that accountability only comes in the form of process. you want to honor the verdict of those 12 people who sat there for nearly seven weeks hearing the evidence in this case, and remind the public that jury service is not for naught, at least until an appeals court says this conviction cannot stand. judge mershon is determined to honor that verdict. >> so, lisa, separate topic here. u.s. district judge in florida aileen cannon blocked the release of the special counsel's report. but yesterday, a federal appeals court ruled the justice department can in fact release that report about president donald trump and the election interference and the documents case as well. so is this report going to see the light of the day? >> it is so at the very worst, merrick garland has to wait three more days. that's because

judge cannon's original order said that her stay essentially expire three days after the court of appeals had its say. and then the court of appeals last night said something else. they said, look, if you don't like that, if you don't like the fact that we're sort of leaving in place her order for another three days, you can pose a direct appeal of that order if you want to do something sooner. and sure enough, we've seen that notice of appeal filed by the justice department. so one way or another, by sunday, merrick garland has the right to do that. unless, of course, donald trump goes to the supreme court in the interim. so i think this story is far from over, willie. i think ultimately the report will be released, but we've still got a few days to go and some innings left to play. >> briefly, what's in the report? what will the public know if it is made public? >> i think we should compare this to the mueller report. right. and so at the very beginning, we didn't see everything. there was a lot blacked out of that report. and i expect the same might be the case here too. but what we should expect to see is the evidence that backs up all of

the allegations that were in the indictment and perhaps beyond that. right. because an indictment is just sort of the skimming of the surface about what the government knows and intends to prove in their case come at some point we will get to see what the government learned in its investigation may not be fully in a couple of days, but it will be soon. >> we could know very soon. all right. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. lisa, thanks so much, as always. good to see you, joe. >> thank you so much, willie. you know, jean, it's interesting we were talking about it earlier this week that, you know, the immunity ruling has been oversimplified, it's like yeah, it's like 8090 page document which actually had had basically three different silos of, of privilege, you know, over here constitutionally pretty much absolute privilege. and then over here for, for acts that that artificial. >> right. right. >> no. no privilege. right. and in the middle is official acts a presumption, a presumption, but

a presumption that the state can very easily overcome. so it's oversimplified. i think it's very telling that amy coney barrett in the immunity hearing. yeah. i mean, the immunity case. right. she she concurred, but distanced herself from clarence thomas and the court in some areas. and it was amy coney barrett yesterday who ruled five four on one. and i got to say the second thing that people should be looking at that think that every federal judge is going to lay down over the next four years to not do their job, is it wasn't any circuit court yesterday that ruled it was the 11th circuit. right. which is the most conservative, i would say the most conservative circuit court. so i think madison lives. there will be checks and balances over the next four years. we can catastrophize and bad things will happen. but i'm not so sure that federal courts are ready to just roll over. >> yeah, we have reason to hope.

we have reason to hope and to and to expect. i think, yes, that that that the judiciary, the court system, as it did during trump term one will will stand up and will interpret and execute the laws as the laws are and not as donald trump would, would have them be. so we do have reason, you know. that let's, you know, come out of the cocoon. it's it might be okay. >> and let me just say this, let me just say this because my wife is oh, come on, we have reason to not catastrophize about everything. well, i'm not going to even say like i know you do. >> i'm a catastrophizing. >> she. elizabeth. she really. she really is. elizabeth. >> but i wanted to say that one of the appellate judge in this case said that she asked todd blanche, one of the president's

defense lawyers, who is going to be a senior official department of justice. is was there any support for the notion that a presidential immunity extends to presidents elect? >> and todd blanche said, there has never been a case like this before. so they were they were on thin ice here, trying to say that this presidential immunity ruling extends to a president elect who was and this was not an official act. he was not even president. >> he was, you know, he was covering up payments to a, you know. >> yeah, we got it. >> and so what's interesting, though, is this really was a first of its kind case. and the immunity case, frank. and the decision, they said this is the first time we've ever had to address this issue. and so i think yesterday again showed that that for those who think that the immunity ruling is, is, is just the court saying we surrender, there are no checks and balances. they should look at it. and it is fascinating,

donald trump saying it's a disgrace what happened to him. but saying 2 or 3 times, i respect the court, i respect their decision. i will say that is far different than what he said about the court in his first term. i mean, i think it goes back to what you were discussing with gene, which is that institutions will be tested, they're going to be tested again. and our hope is that institutions remain strong. >> i think trump himself is not totally sure how strong institutions will be in the face of all the ways in which he will push them. and what he was saying yesterday was essentially, you know, respecting that there is there is a likelihood that the supreme court will intervene to stop him when he goes to the furthest limits. >> when we return. minnesota senator amy klobuchar joins us to reflect on president jimmy carter and give her thoughts on incoming president trump's incoming president trump's agenda. so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon.

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>> president elect donald trump is calling on republicans to pass his legislative policies, though it appears he doesn't really have a strategy for that. he did hold a closed door meeting with republican senators, with their colleagues, president elect calling for one big, beautiful reconciliation bill that tackles his top priorities on taxes, energy and the border, a move house speaker mike johnson supports. but senate republicans think that's going to be too tough to pass, suggesting instead two separate bills. trump, for now, though, appears to be staying out of the strategy debate. >> whether it's one bill or two bill, it's going to get done one way or the other. i think there's a lot of talk about two, and there's a lot of talk about one, but it doesn't matter. the end result is the same. we're going to get something done that's going to be reducing taxes and creating a lot of jobs and all of the other things that you know about. >> so, senator, what's your take on how this is all going to play out? your republican colleagues in the senate, senate appearing a little frustrated yesterday in

their most polite terms possible because donald trump was there saying, this is going to be a little tough to do in one big, beautiful bill. how is this going to go? >> well, these bills, first of all, are never very big or beautiful, but i think they're just trying to practically get through the machinations of government and understanding. there are some republicans that have concerns about the debt and some of the proposals that the president elect has made that would add to that debt. that being said, when he talks about results, results for who is it going to be results for regular people and americans like he promised in the campaign? or is it going to be results like we saw in those last tax cuts that helped the wealthiest help them gain the system, help them rig what's going on to help their businesses or help themselves. that is where democrats are going to really draw the line, because what we want to see is, yes, tax reform and relief for people say, making under $400,000. but for the wealthiest

people, if the past is any instruction and some of the things we're seeing out of the mouths of our republican colleagues, there's going to be a whole bunch of stuff here that's going to set other people back and make it harder for them to get things like social security or housing or less expensive pharmaceuticals. and if they're ready to work with us on those kinds of things, we're ready to find common ground. but we're going to draw the line. if they're helping their wealthiest buddies to rig the system. >> you know, senator, there's been so much talk since the election about a mandate for president trump and that republicans own washington. they, of course, will control the white house, the house and the senate, but by very slim margins in both chambers. so how are you approaching in less than two weeks from now, this new administration, this new congress, what do you think things will be like in washington over the next couple of years? >> well, i have good relationships, as you know, on both sides of the aisle, but and i will whenever possible, as i know, senator schumer wants to

do our leader and others is to find that common ground. we'd love to bring more housing, affordable housing in. so let's get some proposals and get it done. child care. let's get that done. let's bring down health care costs. but some of the things we're seeing, including in the face of these nominees, right where you've got kash patel saying that he wants to close down the fbi headquarters when we just had an incredibly tragic attack in new orleans, or cyber attacks happening every single day, he wants to turn it into a museum and be on a revenge agenda that doesn't keep people safe. and so as we look at these nominees, and i'm sure we'll support some of them, but we're going to look at them and say, are they able? do they have the ability to do this job? does their background check out ethically? and then finally, are they going to be committed to the american people? so i think you're going to hear a lot of the work done on looking at these nominees, because our job is advice and consent. under the

constitution, we take an oath to support and defend it, and that means making sure that the people who are in place that are making major, major decisions for our country are able to do the job up for the job and have a mission consistent with the american people's democratic senator, amy klobuchar of minnesota. >> senator, we always appreciate your time. thank you. >> and thank you for focusing on these horrific fires in los angeles. i, i literally it is apocalyptic. and you think about all the lives changed forever and those that have been lost and our brave firefighters. so i appreciate your coverage. >> up next, there are two wars going on overseas. but according to our next guest, neither of them is the biggest risk for 2025. ian bremmer joins us next to explain what the top of his to explain what the top of his list for the new year. covid-19? i'm not waiting. if it's covid, paxlovid. paxlovid is an oral treatment for adults... with mild-to- moderate covid-19

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donald trump cabinet will look like in el paso from philadelphia. >> in israel, new hampshire from msnbc world headquarters. >> each week on my podcast, i'm joined by uniquely qualified guests who help me take a big picture, look at the issues, like representative jasmine crockett, late night host seth meyers, former attorney general eric holder, and many more. why is this happening? listen now. >> the geopolitical risk advisor eurasia group is out with its annual top risks report today for the upcoming year. among the group's top concerns, a global leadership crisis and the resulting power vacuum that threatens to destabilize international relations. russia's invasion, of course, and the potential new lengths vladimir putin may go to in order to subvert the global order and iran's role in the middle east, and whether the country now poses more of a

threat due to how seriously it has been weakened by 2024. events. morning joe has an exclusive first look at this report and its coauthor. ian bremmer joins us now. he's president and founder of eurasia group and gzero media. and joe, looking at this list, yeah, nothing to worry about in 2025. nothing at all. look away. >> well, well, ian ian writes that this is about as dangerous of a time since the 1930s, globally, or the early stages of the cold war. i wanted to ask you, though, ian. i'm going to go all the way down to number eight, i agree. i mean, there is so much to worry about on this list. i you wrote something regarding number eight and that's i and you say developers drive to build more powerful ai will likely to be restrained only by limits on data, compute energy or funding access until

such constraints are reached. ai's capabilities and associated risks will continue to grow unchecked. and i think for the long range, this this is something that gravely concerns me. i remember watching christopher nolan's classic oppenheimer, and while watching oppenheimer, i was thinking, this is not really a story so much about controlling atomic energy and the spread of it. this is all too relevant to what's going on in the world of ai, where, you know, i remember on wall street leading up to the great recession and, you know, 2008, all the wall street actors were saying, trust us on these credit default swaps. we know what we're doing. they didn't. i feel the same. we have a bro culture in silicon valley that's saying, trust us, you can't regulate us. you can't step in. if you do, then china is going to wipe the floor with us. so what's the happy medium there? how, how how do we put some

checks on, on perhaps the most promising and most dangerous technology we've seen since the atomic bomb? >> yeah, joe, i mean, it's interesting you focus on that risk because it is the fastest moving risk and in some ways the most systemic globally. i'm a huge enthusiast for ai in terms of what it can mean for unlocking human capital, as well as new industrial innovation. but we need to have rules of the road. and last year there was a lot of effort, a lot of prioritization by the us with the executive order that was done in concert with a lot of the systemically important ai ceos, a lot of effort by the europeans. of course, the ai act, a lot of effort by the united nations and global governance. this year, they're moving in the other direction. the americans are going to rip up what the trump administration, that executive order and allow the tech bros, as we call them, to basically, you know, sort of write their

own ticket. the europeans are concerned that they're being left behind, and so they're focusing much more on trying to get more money and more support into their own nascent and smaller efforts. the brits last year had this big. what was it called, an ai safety summit this year? they're calling it instead, you know, sort of a it's going to be focused on ai action summit. that should tell you all you really need to know. so the us and the chinese were beginning, just beginning to try to talk about how we could stop each other from taking ai in ways that could be really, really dangerous, like getting ai out of autonomous decisions for nuclear weapons launches, for example, that took over a year to get done. i suspect that conversation is going to completely break down. and i also think when you look at some of the open source ai. like for example, llama, that what facebook has, we have guys in our organization that just to see what it can do, have

downloaded it on their own laptops. and if you then ask it questions of how to kill someone with arsenic or how to target, you know, ceos of pharmaceutical companies, it will tell you. so both from the us and china arms race perspective and also from the bad actors and tinkerers perspective, these tools need regulation and we're not going to get it this year. we are instead going to get more and more use cases that eventually will become crises. so let's turn to number one on the list, which you have deemed the g era, the lack of a dominant power. and it's twinned with number three. this idea of how the us and china relationship. talk to us about why you think this is so potentially dangerous. well, this is not a year where the principal risk is trump. trump is the principal symptom of the fact that people are not interested in global leadership to respond to global problems. so the united states is focusing much more inward and much more unilaterally resolving problems itself, not with allies, not

together with adversaries. the chinese massive economic challenges, focusing internally on dealing with those and everyone else is so weak. this year, the canadian government is about to fall. german government has fallen. french government keeps falling, right? i mean, the japanese are weaker than we've seen in decades. the south korean government keeps on. so everywhere you look, the alternatives to the us and china are just playing defense. and the most important geopolitical relationship in the world, of course, is the us china relationship. now, there's no trust between the two countries, but at least in the last year, 25 different high level channels were established between the two countries, including mille mille, to try to maintain a level of managed decline. this is a year that that managed decline is probably not going to hold up. trump says he's a deal maker. maybe he's interested. but what china is willing to put on the table as the us administration talks about hitting them hard with tariffs, more export controls on technology and even some of the hawks around trump that we'll

talk a lot more about taiwan, the south china sea. we are set to have a much less managed decline of that relationship, with significant knock on economic and national security concerns around the world. >> so that gets us to number two on your list. >> the rule of dawn. >> his proteges, his staff, all of his allies contend that one of his strengths is his unpredictability. >> unpredictability, though, is seems to be a potentially lethal danger in places like beijing, and every other capital in the world would be a danger to what's going to happen with ai through the eyes of the american public. so what about that? yeah, i mean, rule of law is, of course, what the united states was founded on. >> and the founding fathers were concerned that, you know, you needed to have constraints on the executive authority in the country to ensure that that did not become the rule of man. and that unpredictability, which

will lead to a lot of wins. i don't think trump is going to fail in everything he tries to do because other countries are so weak, they're going to say, hey, we'll give you a deal. look at what the mexicans will be, look at where the canadians will be. look at even europeans. early on, they will say, we're going to spend more money on defense. we're going to buy more gas from you guys. but that unpredictability in the power ministries in the us, the department of justice, the fbi, that unpredictability in terms of what the most powerful country in the world does domestically and internationally, and the decision making of one man, and frankly, the decision making also of the most powerful, wealthy private sector individual in the world very aligned with him. i mean, who put a poll just on twitter x this morning a few hours ago saying, should the united states liberate the brits from the uk? i mean, there are right now already trump isn't president yet. there are crisis conversations happening in european capitals. how do we respond precisely to the rule of dawn, to the unpredictability from by far the most powerful country in the world that is

going to act much more unilaterally on the global stage in 2025. >> all right. >> so let's talk about ian. a couple of quick opportunities here. possibility of abraham accords moving forward. the saudis and israel probably striking a deal early on in the trump presidency. i'm curious what your take is on the opportunities in syria. iran weaker than any at any point since 1979. possibility of a peace deal or at least a cease fire between russia and ukraine, especially with ukraine having some success over the past week in their attacks. what are the opportunities that you see? reasons for hope. >> as i said, when the united states is saying you listen to us or else there is a willingness of a lot of countries to pay attention. and that's not just american allies, it's also adversaries. so do i think there is a much greater likelihood of a cease fire

between russia and ukraine? yes, i do now. it's going to be more dangerous until that cease fire comes, because there'll be more assassinations and more long range missile strikes and the rest. but i'd be surprised if at the end of 2025, you still have active fighting along front lines the way we have right now. so, yes, i think that is an opportunity. and it's an opportunity that's not going to lead to the to the breakdown of the european union. they still feel like this is very much a threat to them. the israelis have shown that they have escalation, dominance across the middle east. and that has meant that iran no longer has an axis of resistance. you know, joe, i used to study the former soviet union. my dissertation was on russians in ukraine. and i remember the period between 1988 and 91, when the soviets lost all of their eastern bloc countries. well, the iranians are in the middle of that right now. they've just lost all of their proxies across the middle east, and they're experiencing instability and incredible economic challenges at home. so they are far more willing to

reach out to anybody to cut a deal. and they certainly don't want to escalate the big question, of course, joe, will be to what extent the israelis and the americans are prepared to accept what the iranians are offering? or will they say this? they're so weak. this is our unique opportunity to take out the iranian nuclear program. this is our unique opportunity to help undermine what is a very weak islamic republic, led by an ailing 85 year old supreme leader. coming up on morning joe weekend, we talk with presidential historian jon meacham about his opinion piece describing the legacy of late president jimmy carter. >> klein inspector has five doctor lawyers, the most of any law firm in america. and maybe that's why the new york times calls klein inspector a powerhouse law firm. so if powerhouse law firm. so if wrongful conduct despite being on an antidepressant, i was still masking my depression symptoms.

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without fingersticks. dexcom g7 is the most accurate cgm, so you can manage your diabetes with confidence. ♪♪ fight the incoming trump administration. >> donald trump wants a presidential cabinet full of loyalists. don't miss the weekends, saturday and sunday mornings at 8:00 on msnbc. >> the second inauguration of donald trump morning joe kicks off coverage. then, at 10 a.m, rachel maddow and team will bring you key moments of the day, followed by analysis from our primetime anchors as the new term begins monday, january 20th, beginning at six on msnbc. >> so, jon meacham, you write in a new piece, quote, carter was a great and consequential life, a life devoted to the highest of american ideals, the fulfillment

of the promise of the declaration of independence at home and abroad. tell us more about his tremendous legacy. >> well, he's a remarkable american story to have come from the south of first democratic president. >> he and lyndon johnson. were these democrats who came from the farthest reaches. when you think about it, of the republic to rise to the pinnacle of power. and he did it in a meritocratic that's a word. that's a lot of debate about it these days. but the mechanics of american democracy and society that were available to white men in that era were the means by which the president, president carter, ascended. he went to public schools. he went to the naval academy. he served in

uniform. he was in the state senate. he was governor of georgia. just moments after, historically speaking, the civil rights movement and comes out of nowhere, really makes the iowa caucuses into the iowa caucuses and becomes president in a, by the way, to connect what we've been talking about in a very narrow win over a man who then became his friend, gerald ford, until he died. president ford could name the 5 or 6 counties. he would put his hand up that he had lost in southern ohio, that he believes if he'd carried them, the result would have been different. i love politicians who can still name counties. decades on, but president carter had a remarkably global vision and a global understanding of what the implications of the declaration of independence were

for someone who had come from segregated georgia. and it's a sign that the world can and does change, not rapidly, but steadily. when there are people of goodwill and jimmy carter was of goodwill, did he get things wrong? absolutely. was he perfect? absolutely not. was he a saint? no. he was a sinner who managed to do some really remarkable things. and sinners who do remarkable things seems to me are more inspiring than saints do. because i don't know about you, but i know a lot more of the former than the latter. >> well, you know who else does? jesus like? peter? >> what? >> the center of all centers. and denied him three times. and he said, peter, you are the rock on which i am going to build my church. so thank god sinners have a shot at changing the

world. and jimmy carter certainly did that. john meacham, thank you so much, as always, deeply grateful for you this morning. >> coming up. today, show co-host and nbc news meteorologist dylan dreyer joins us for a look at her new children's book. good morning. gio. weekend. we'll be right back with that. >> after glow cleaned our place for $19, we fired our old housekeeper. pomerleau tackled everything from our kitchen to our bathroom, all our laundry. you just pick a date, pick a you just pick a date, pick a cleaner, and have you always had trouble with your weight? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only weight-management medicine proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events such as death, heart attack, or stroke in adults with known heart disease and obesity.

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with all your boys. you have so many kids, so many kids. it seems like there's 20, but there's only three. there's only three, but they're boys, so they multiply. and you have these lovely, this lovely book series. is this not the first one? right? >> no, this is actually the fifth book. it's our misty the cloud book series. but this one's a little bit different. it's kind of aimed more towards babies, guys, because it's like these. >> remember when you were reading the old lift the flap books? you lift the flap and you actually you're not on an ipad. you're actually touching. the kids are interacting and discovering something. exactly. this one's not doing it. >> and i know that the brand new ones are hard to hard to lift that flap. but, you know, as i've had 100 kids, i've realized that lift the flap books engage them the most when they're babies. these are nice, sturdy flaps too, so they will try to rip them off. >> but it will do that because your boys would rip them off. >> yes, i have so many lift the flap books without the flap. >> yeah. >> you know, and on the today show i always say, here's a peek out your window. so i thought this would be such a good

combination if that peek was opening curtains or opening blinds and introducing kids to looking outside the window every morning, the first thing you should do in the morning is peek out the window. it helps you get dressed. it helps you plan your day. that's what i do. >> it helps you engage with yourself. instead of reaching for a phone or an ipad. exactly. >> or popping on the tv right away, just take a pause, peek out your window. and this kind of gives kids the terms to, you know, whether it's rainy or snowy. i caught my three year old on the couch the other day just flipping through it, literally lifting the flap pfizer. and i'm like, oh, that's. >> so i think your kids are a little too old for this, but maybe they're ten and 13. >> but we had a series. >> we have a series at home we used to do. >> and you're right, anything not just engaging with the outside is important because you open the window. what's weather? and then next step go out there and there. >> yes, we look at rain a little bit differently. i look at rain and i'm like, oh, i don't want to walk the dog. kids look at rain as a chance to splash in a puddle. so let them embrace the joy of weather because, you

know, we're talking about wildfires. and there certainly are some scary weather conditions out there. but day to day the weather should be enjoyed. >> we all experience it the same way. should be enjoyed and loved. exactly. all right. the new book, peek out your window my first book of weather, is on sale now in new york times bestselling author, nbc news meteorologist, and co-host of the third hour of today, dylan dreyer. does she ever sleep? this is what i want with those kids. >> yes. >> and you do the cooking show with cal. >> so i know that's a lot going on. >> it is. i might be, like, insta stalking you. i like that, right. >> and that's it for us this hour. thank you for watching. we're back tomorrow at 6 a.m. for a brand new round of morning joe weekend. until then, please enjoy the rest of your saturday. >> good morning. it is saturday, january 11th. i'm alicia menendez with symone sanders townsend and michael steele. today, donald j. trump is a convicted felon, but he escaped punishment. michael cohen went to pso