once again, nine tablets for just $7 is try friday plans.com. >> yo, we have an interesting show in store tomorrow we will be joined by marianne williamson, the former democratic presidential candidate who is now running to be chair of the democratic national committee. that starts back here tomorrow at 8 a.m. eastern. be sure to follow us on social media at the weekend. msnbc velshi continues our coverage. good morning ali. >> good morning. >> a remarkable show. i'm going to just skip that last part where michael talked about spinning and whatever that was. >> but it was, what is this got my attention. >> i got to say, if you're one of those people who's kind of just waking up, not sure what's on tv, it's like, what did you say about talk about spinning?

where's michael spinning? but a lot of really important stuff you covered this morning. and i have to tell you, i'm not sure. a few days ago, i would have known that we would both be spending this much time on our shows about these these fires. but they are something else. i mean, i have spent a lot of my career covering disasters and fires and natural disasters. there is an intensity and a level to this and the number of people being affected by it, which is just astounding. and i just want to say thank you for the remarkable coverage you've had, and that we're going to continue doing that through the course of the day on our shows. >> thank you. ali. it's just so important. i will just say manhattan, the number of acres that have burned is comparable to all of manhattan to have burned down, plus some and much of it in urban areas where people live, where people think it's not going to come to me, and then they get these calls in the middle of the night, they have to evacuate. >> so we're our hearts are with them. but so is our reporting. thanks, guys. you have a good day. we'll see you tomorrow morning. and velshi starts now. good morning. saturday, january

the 11th. it's a tough morning. we're going to continue with the catastrophic wildfires in california. they've incinerated now about 58mi!s of the greater los angeles area. officials say, based on infrared imaging, at least 12,000 structures have been destroyed. and when i say destroyed, you have to see some of these images. these are not partially destroyed. this looks like a war zone. more than 180,000 people have been displaced from their homes through mandatory evacuations. many are voluntarily evacuating because these fires are in some places where you can't get out of easily. if a mandatory evacuation were to take place, single roads to major highways. at least 11 people have died. officials were just beginning to access certain areas for welfare checks to see if people were there to check on missing persons reports on thursday, and they warned that the death toll could grow. evacuation orders for the largest fire, the one you've probably seen the most images of the palisades fire

have expanded. that fire is still expanding. it's spreading east. it's now threatening the brentwood and encino areas. and that fire is only 8% contained. now, you've heard that expression. here's what it means. it means officials have controlled that area of the fire controlled, 8% of that fire is not likely to spread. that's what it means. it doesn't mean it's not burning. it doesn't mean the fire itself is not spreading. the eaton fire, which is in the pasadena area, has burned just over two square miles and it's 3% contained. more than 100,000 residents remain under evacuation orders, and l.a. county has officially declared a public health emergency as smoke inhalation threatens residents. i. by the way, i'm just going to ask my control room to check that figure about the two square miles, because i think perhaps that's it's 21mi!s, not two square miles. i was thinking two square miles seemed far too small for that fire. firefighters have struggled to contain the fires because of

severe winds and a reported lack of water pressure going to the local fire hydrants, which is causing the hydrants to not have water in them. there are also issues with water supplies themselves from the santa ynez reservoir, which has the capacity for a lot of water, but has been closed for repairs since february of last year, according to the l.a. times. governor gavin newsom is now calling for an independent investigation into that, and that's all really relevant. but right now there are still active fires and active evacuations. several of my colleagues are on the ground in la bringing us the latest updates. here's some of what they've encountered. >> there are people still here trying to fight this fire with garden hoses. there is still water in this area, but with this much destruction, it almost seems it almost seems futile. >> you were. you were here fighting by yourself, right? yes. how long have you been out here? i've been out here since 4 a.m. this is an absolutely

devastating, catastrophic, and i don't. >> i am not being hyperbolic. hyperbolic? >> when i say situation. this is this is pacific palisades. >> this is the community that i grew up in, guys. i was born and raised in this neighborhood, literally three blocks down that way, both supermarkets in this town, the library, many of the schools have burned to the ground. >> the gas stations have burned to the ground there. >> as far as we know, it is. is not pacific palisades any longer home after home after home, just absolutely reduced to rubble. >> whatever. family items, pictures, things that were important to people if they didn't get them out when they evacuated, it is all gone now. i mean, there is literally nothing left inside of homes like this to be salvaged. >> fires obviously have impacted this area before they've impacted malibu, but to see a stretch like this along pch of, i think there's more than 80 houses that were demolished is just not something that anybody has seen before. and as you can see, just like in the palisades,

just like in altadena, there's nothing left. >> joining me now is nbc news correspondent dana griffin, who is in brentwood. and my understanding is that this fire and the winds are endangering even where you are. it's remarkable behind you. in fact, i've been watching you for a few hours. the scene behind you is remarkable, but the area you're in is not out of danger either. >> that's true, ali, it's a situation where this is a very fluid, dynamic threat. we went to bed last night thinking this is going to be a nice reprieve, because there's going to be a drop in temperature and wind gusts. we woke up around midnight and realized that the palisades fire had shifted farther east. and as you can see over the ridge behind me, it is still growing. we've been seeing firefighters attacking this relentlessly, trying to drop water on the flames that have made it over this ridge. there's a huge plume of smoke, and

several people have been seeing this from different parts of the county. and this is concerning because this when i was watching, just like the local reports, that this was a threat or it was concerning because it was heading toward the direction of the 405. so major freeways, additional neighborhoods, the brentwood community that we're in, we're not seeing any residents around. the lights appear to be out. many people had to evacuate late last night, and you could probably hear the aircraft above us, and hopefully we'll get a look at what is happening behind us so you can get an up close look at the firefighting efforts. so these helicopters are going around. they're pinpointing spots on the ground and then dropping water. that one kept going. so maybe it was just spotting to see. but we'll probably get another one come through here. it's sheer devastation. you're right. not people are not out of the woods. some people are under warnings, others are under orders. but you got to pay attention because at any moment your area could be called to evacuate. ali. >> dana, one of the things that

is not familiar to people who don't live in the area is that some of these fires are entirely urban areas where the streets are grids, some are not in these hills and valleys and canyons. sometimes there's one road out, so if you get a middle of the night evacuation order, the road is likely to be clogged. we've seen instances where bulldozers came and pushed those cars out. people were told, abandon your cars because you're not going to get out of here. you saw katy tur on pacific coast highway. these are single roads in many cases to evacuate. so even if you're not under a mandatory evacuation order, there are some people who have just chosen to leave to say, i can't wait till the last minute because i might just get stuck. >> yeah, people are concerned. i have friends who said, i'm going to stay at a hotel farther inland so that i do not have to deal with this, and that's a major concern. it's kind of reminiscent of lahaina, maybe not that congested because lahaina was very densely populated, but in some neighborhoods they only had one way in, one way out. and a lot of these communities, you're seeing similar roads where

traffic backs up. that's why people ditched their cars earlier this week, because they were concerned that the fire was moving too fast and they didn't want to chance it. so that's why officials are reminding people, if you are told to evacuate or let me step back if you are told or if you receive a warning, that is your time to start packing up and to be ready to go so that you can hop in that car and immediately leave. and fire officials say that helps them out, too, because they're big trucks are trying to get into the neighborhood to try to save homes. so it is really important that when you get those evacuation warnings and orders to abide by them and do not stay. people have talked about they've tried to save their homes, and one of the victims we've heard from their family, he was found with a water hose still in his hand. so they're advising not to try to fight this this fire. >> ali, it's really hard. >> particularly when it's your home, when it's your investment, when so many of those homes in that area are without insurance, by the way. some of it just in the last year. dana, thanks for your reporting. please stay safe. i do want to remind our viewers, our reporters are trained at this. we do have

remarkable security and safety protocols. so while they get as close to these things as they can to get you the images that are important to report the news and to record this part of history, we are we do take great care to make sure that our reporters in natural disasters do stay safe. california has experienced drought, as you know, throughout its history, but recent years have delivered a weather whiplash that has contributed to this very high fire risk environment for two years in a row. in both 2023 and 2024, southern california saw unusually wet winters, and this had been after an expanded drought. now, those historic storms in 2023 and 2024 caused mudslides and flooding. but what that did, all that water led to the growth of more grass and brush. and then the rain stopped coming. the la area hasn't seen any significant rainfall in more than eight months. the hills are now full of parched brush, and that created a tinderbox now that was exacerbated by the santa ana winds, which blew in

with 100 mile an hour gusts. now, keep in mind that's the strength of a category two hurricane. so you've got all the ingredients for a major fire. the weather extremes, fueled by climate change, led to literally the perfect storm. and though the state of california has increased its fire mitigation efforts with these climate change fueled disasters reaching new levels of ferocity, the mitigation clearly wasn't enough to prevent the major disaster that we are literally still watching unfold. cal fire, along with the la fire department and mutual aid departments, have deployed more than 9000 firefighters to battle the blazes across the city of los angeles. a number, by the way, which you've probably heard includes about 780 incarcerated people, inmate fighters who are currently on the front lines of these fires, cutting fire lines and removing debris from high risk areas. another vital tool in this particular terrain, as dana was just describing, are planes and helicopters. look at

the size of this is a big plane dropping fire retardant on burn areas. however, even that didn't work in some places this week because the major fires that broke out, they broke out in the middle of those santa ana winds. you cannot fly a plane or a helicopter in 100 mile an hour winds. so the winds kept these crucial mitigation efforts on the ground. you also have groups of civilian volunteers who have self-organized to collect debris and flammable material from neighborhoods to prevent further spread. that kind of thing actually matters a lot. but despite all of these efforts, experts now say there is actually very little they can do to stop these fires until the winds drop. they've dropped from 100 miles an hour, but they're still there. there will be more winds tomorrow. there will be more winds on monday. and it did not help that many of southern california's fire hydrants ran dry when they were needed most. on wednesday, the pasadena fire chief, chad augustin, reported to responded to questions about

the fire department's preparedness, and he said that even more water and more engines would still not have prevented the devastation, saying, quote, with those wind gusts, we were not stopping that fire, end quote. joining me now is brian fennessy. he's the fire chief of the orange county, california fire authority. he's also, importantly, a collaborator with x prize wildfire. it's a competition that incentivizes the innovation of firefighting technologies. brian, thanks for being with us. we really need very desperately your your guidance and your advice at this point. you've been a firefighter for about 45 years. talk to me about what specific about this fire are. reporter compared it to lahaina. it's not fully a forest fire. it's not fully an urban fire. but it's got components of both and super high population growth and the winds. >> yeah. >> i think you and dana really hit it. well, you know what sets this apart? i've been a firefighter since 1978.

>> i grew up in altadena. >> and when you grow up in altadena, near the foothills, you're very used to santa ana winds. when it's not blowing anywhere else, it's blowing there. and this was significant. talking with friends and family that still live there, that have experienced many, many santa ana winds and several wind driven fires, they said this was absolutely unique and you hit the nail on the head. you know, these may start in the wild land or what we call the wildland urban interface. but once they enter the urban area or suburban areas, this now becomes an urban conflagration. it's no longer a wildland fire. when you have house to house spread under those kind of conditions, that is no longer a wildland fire. and very much like lahaina, but on a much, much larger scale. >> and part of the problem we saw this last night with the

ellison barber where they were fighting in altadena. they were fighting fires actively. so there'd be a structure, they'd be on fire, firefighters would come there, they would be trying to fight that structure. but then there was a structure across the road on fire, and there was a structure two houses down that was on fire. and when you're a firefighter, you have two things you can't do. one is you can't decide this fire is too big, and get back in your truck and leave, right. that's the one. firefighters fight the fire till there is no more fire to fight or something happens to them. and number two, how do you triage what to do? how do you sit there and say, something's breaking out over there? that sounds like it's about to get very serious. how do you even manage this? >> right? i mean, it has affected the it does affect the psyche of the firefighter because, you know, we're not used to, you know, giving up and losing the fight. and i'll put it in perspective. if your house was to catch fire today and we sent a first alarm to your home, you'd probably have 4 to 5 engines coming, you know, 2 to 3 ladder companies and battalion chiefs. you'd have probably close to 20 firefighters for your one house when you've got literally dozens, if not

hundreds of fires simultaneousl. burning triage is the right word. we're picking and choosing which homes you know are more likely to be successful. so once a once a house becomes involved and it doesn't take much in these, you do have to give up the fight. and you know, chief augustine was right. this fire at the height, you know, when the wind was blowing was unstoppable. it wouldn't have mattered more firefighters, more more engines. we were not going to stop a fire that has gusts of 100 miles an hour. that's it's just not possible. mother nature literally owned us for the first few days. >> and we're looking at this map here. i just want to keep this up for a second. there are lots of people who have not been evacuated who are literally live in this super populated area, sort of north, north of hollywood, north of beverly hills, north of west hollywood, which is literally between five

active fires, the hearst fire, the kenneth fire, the lydia fire, the eden fire, and the palisades fire. this all depends on the winds at this point. right at this point, if the winds are favorable, they're going to hit the less populated areas. if they're unfavorable, more people are going to have to leave. >> yeah. and what's happening right now? you know, a santa ana wind is always out of the northeast. very strong winds. there's compression. there's all kinds of things affected. so we know as the fire service exactly where the fire is going. it's not like some of these other fires that we're trying to predict spread. it's going to the southwest. and until those winds diminish or get to a point where we can fly aircraft and get in there and actually stop the fire, we're at mother nature's mercy. what's happening today? and it started yesterday and it was predictable, is we now have changed the weather pattern to an onshore flow. our normal flow, you know, comes out of the southwest or the west. and so we call it a wind reversal. and when we're fighting these fires, we're

always cognizant of what we call shutting the back door, because the winds will completely switch around instead of pushing hard like we've seen with the smoke leaning real hard towards the southwest, the smoke starts to go straight up and then it starts to blow inland. the good news is the humidity will come up some, but the but the vegetation is so parched right now. so this was predictable. and the movement of the fire is significantly slower because you don't have the santa ana wind velocities. but this was not a surprise. and i'm very confident that, you know, once the aircraft get up and looking at your pictures that you're showing there, once the air tankers get up, they're going to star to start backing down. >> and in fact, as we're looking at that picture, you can see an picture, our camera zooming into it. right now, we've got a helicopter there. it's unclear what that helicopter is or what it's doing. it could be go

ahead. >> that's an that's an la city helicopter. and it is a water dropping helicopter. but usually the first aircraft up at in the morning are doing reconnaissance and kind of preparing for the air show all that day. >> brian, thank you. thank you. and to every firefighter you meet today and everybody who works for cal fire and the local fire departments, thank them on behalf of the citizens of america. this is not easy work, but we are grateful for it. brian fennessy is a fire chief of the orange county, california fire authority. coming up, we are going to stay on top of these fires for the whole of the show and for the whole of the day, but right now, we're nine days away from donald trump's return to power, and this time it will be as a convicted felon. but trump says he's not finished fighting the conviction. i'll discuss trump's planned appeal and whether the supreme court's immunity decision could play a role with one of the great legal minds of our time, melissa murray. plus, what's behind mark zuckerberg's decision this week to end the fact checking program for facebook and instagram, and what it might mean for the spread of disinformation in a

new trump era. we'll talk to the heads of politifact and snopes, who were working with meta on its fact checking program. >> this is pwf, the fastest growing pet odor eliminator in the world. >> oh, it's safe for people, pets, and the planet. powerful enough to use on the very worst organic odors, yet it's safe enough to use on pet toys, their beds, even on them. the choice is yours. harsh chemicals and fragrances or the power of poof. there's only one poof available (children speaking) there's only one poof available onli show us. conflict is raging across the world, and millions of children's lives are being devastated

by war, hunger, disease and poverty. we urgently need your help to reach children in crisis. please call or go online to give just $10 a month. only $0.33 a day. we need 1000 new monthly donors this month to help children in crisis around the world and right here at home. you can help us provide food, essentials, and lifesaving medical care to children in the most need. i'm adam. in the darkest times children suffer the most. you can help by calling right now and giving just $10 a month. all we need are 1000 monthly donors. please call or go online now with your monthly gift of just $10.

thanks to generous government grants, every dollar you give can have up to ten times the impact and when you call with your credit card, we will send you this save the children tote bag as a thank you for your support. your small monthly donation of just $10. could be the reason a child in crisis survives. show them they're not alone. please call or go online to givetosave.org to help save lives. blend. such a huge difference in your health. >> more energy, more playful. >> no more pooping issues. >> i'm doctor marty. >> i've been a veterinarian for more than 50 years. the dangerous ingredients added to many pet foods could be impacting your dog's lifespan.

that's why i formulated nature's blend. >> now you can feed your dog wholesome cuts of real meat, vegetables and fruit with no artifi pete g. writes, "my tween wants a new phone. how do i not break the bank?" we got you, pete. xfinity mobile was designed to save you money and gives you access to wifi speeds up to a gig. so you get high speeds for low prices. better than getting low speeds for high prices. right, bruce? -jealous? yeah, look at that. -honestly. someone get a helmet on this guy. xfinity internet customers, ask how to get an unlimited line

free for a year, plus a free 5g phone. supporting ingredients and is clinically backed to promote healthy liver function so that nothing is holding you back. >> in nine days, donald trump will assume the office of the president of the united states as a convicted felon. that comes after he was formally sentenced yesterday in his criminal case in manhattan, in which a jury found him guilty of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. back in june. judge juan merchan, who presided over the case from the beginning, sentenced the president elect to something called an unconditional discharge, which means that trump will not face any kind of punishment for the crimes of which he's been convicted. no jail time, no probation, nothing. before handing down his sentence, judge merchan spoke about the extraordinary circumstances of this case. >> to be clear, the protections afforded the office of the

president are not aigating factor. >> they do not reduce the seriousness, seriousness of the crime or justify its commission in any way. protections are, however, a legal mandate which, pursuant to the rule of law, this court must respect and follow. >> now, with this sentencing, trump will now officially be seen as a convicted felon. in the eyes of the law. it's a designation that he had hoped to avoid. over the past week, trump filed multiple appeals all the way up to the supreme court to stop the sentencing from happening. ultimately, chief justice john roberts and amy coney barrett joined the court's three liberal justices to deny his request and allow the proceeding proceeding to move forward. however, this is not likely the end of trump's legal battles on this front. on the night of the sentencing, he told reporters at mar-a-lago that he intends to appeal this conviction and he added, quote, this is a long way from

finished, end quote. on top of that, his legal team is continuing its attempt to stop the department of justice from releasing the special counsel. jack smith's final report regarding trump's federal cases before the inauguration. earlier in the week, attorney general merrick garland said that he intends to make the public portion of the report related to the january 6th case. but the department of justice has determined that the second part of the report, the part that's related to the classified documents case, likely can't be released because that case is still proceeding against trump's former co-defendants. but neither part of the report can be released yet because of ongoing efforts to block it. late last thursday night, the this past thursday night, the 11th circuit court of appeals ruled that the report could be released, but it kept in place a lower court's order for a three day delay on that release to allow for further appeals. and last night, trump's former co-defendants in the classified documents case made new filings that could lead to additional

delays to the report's release. that's a strategy that the president, the president elect's legal team, has employed to great effect in recent years. when we come back, i'm joined by melissa murray. she's one of the best legal minds i know to explain exactly what is explain exactly what is happening with these prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water, and for zero heartburn 1 prilosec a day... beats taking up to 10 antacids a day. it's that simple, for 24 hour heartburn relief... one beats ten. prilosec otc. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! —uh. —here i'll take that. [cheering] ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar and a protein blend to feed muscles up to 7 hours. ♪♪ my name is brayden. i was five years old when i came to st. jude. i'll try and shorten down the story. so i've been having these headaches that wouldn't go away. my mom, she was just crying.

what they said, your son has brain cancer. it was your worst fear coming to life. watching your child grow up is the dream of every parent. you can join the battle to save the lives of kids like brayden, by supporting st. jude children's research hospital . families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food, so they can focus on helping their child live . what they have done for me, my son, my family-- i'm sorry, yeah. life is a gift, especially for a child battling cancer. call or go online and help save another lives of children like brayden. now, i'm 11 years old. we were actually doing the checkup for my brain. and they saw something in my throat.

it's thyroid cancer. it was heartbreaking to find out that he has cancer again. but we knew who we had behind us. it just gives me hope. you can make a difference. join with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month. and we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt. without st. jude or its donors, we would have been in a bad place. these kids, they've done nothing wrong in the world. finding a cure for childhood cancer, it means everything. help st. jude give kids with cancer a chance. [audio logo]

your best defense against inverosion and cavities is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works.

[coughing] —sounds like you need to vaporize that cold. nyquil vapocool? it's nyquil plus a rush of vicks vapors. ♪vapocooooool♪ nyquil vapocool. the vaporizing night time, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, best sleep with a cold, medicine. trump is now officially the first former president to become a convicted felon. and in just nine days, he will return to the white house and assume the role of president of the united states. i'm joined, as promised by melissa murray, professor of law at nyu. she's an msnbc legal analyst. she's a co-host of the strict scrutiny podcast. melissa, good to see you. i just want to get through this because i'm sure a lot of people were following it very closely. but there's still a couple of unanswered questions. why did this have to happen to make donald trump a convicted felon? because there were a whole lot of people who thought when he was convicted by a jury of his

peers, that was that. and then what is this unconditional discharge mean? right. >> so generally, in the criminal process, it's sentencing that makes a person formally a convicted felon. so in order for donald trump to have that ignominious distinction, this sentencing had to happen. and so it did happen. it was not the sentencing that many individuals who are convicted of these crimes in new york state get. and typically, this kind of charge carries with it the penalty of some jail time or even prison time. >> right. >> donald trump is the only individual since 2014, when the new york times began looking at this, that has received an unconditional discharge. and that means there are no conditions or penalties on the levying of the sentence. there will be no jail time. there's no restitution. there's no need for him to maintain employment. all of the kinds of conditions that typically might attend a conviction of this sort as part of the sentence. >> let's dig into that a little bit, because judge mershon talked about the fact that there are certain professional protections afforded the president of the united states, but that the person that was convicted was not president

donald trump. it was citizen donald trump. yet he said this is the only sentence that was sort of allowable by law. what did he mean by that? and what do you think of that? >> so i think i mean, again, i am not judge merchan, but it seemed that what he was saying is that we have to take into account that this individual who has been convicted and is now sentenced is in a week going to be taking the oath of office as the president of the united states again. so this was a conviction based on pre-presidential conduct before his first term in office, but it is actually going to have some impact on the fact that he is going to be president again. so any sentence that would be levied would have to be done in light of the fact that he is going to have substantial duties as president, and the sentence cannot impinge on that in any way, hence the unconditional discharge. so he has the denomination of being a convicted felon, but not necessarily any of the penalties that might impose on the exercise of presidential duties. >> he will still, he claims, appeal the conviction itself. >> and he can do that.

>> yes. >> but he was trying very hard not to have this happen. and he didn't get his way with with a few courts, including the supreme court. >> so it's actually quite interesting. i mean, he referred to this as a little thing, but if it was so little, he wouldn't be so strenuously trying to avoid it. the supreme court was obviously the hail mary here. and the court noted in its order issued the night before the sentencing, that he always had the traditional state court appellate channels to pursue. and he will obviously pursue those to try and have this conviction overturned. but the court also seemed to note that this was not going to be a big imposition on exercising the duties of president, because judge merchan had indicated that there would be no jail time and this would be an unconditional discharge that i think is actually really interesting. this was a 5 to 4 decision of the united states supreme court. and of the five justices, they seem to be saying that part of the reason we're okay with letting this happen is because it's not really that big a deal question whether there was more

of a penalty imposed on citizen donald trump, soon to be president donald trump again, whether they would have come out in the same way. and it's also really interesting that this was a 5 to 4 decision, and it was on the shadow docket, where typically the orders that the court issues don't have to be signed, they don't have to identify the lineup of the justices. but here, the four justices who would have granted review of this petition all identified themselves. and that is actually really interesting, because it perhaps signals that these individuals saw this as a very worthy challenge that the president should have this day at the supreme court. and maybe going forward, they are going to be more receptive to the president's matters as it comes before the court, as they surely will. there's surely going to be other donald trump related matters at this court. >> melissa, thank you as always. melissa murray is a professor of law at nyu, the host of black women in america the road to 2024, the co-host of the strict scrutiny podcast as well. all right. coming up, facebook and instagram. parent company meta is getting rid of its fact

checking program, claiming that the decision is based on free speech. i'll discuss exactly what that program did and what it means that with the heads of politifact and snopes, who were working with meta and facebook working with meta and facebook on its fact checking program. mom where's my homework? mommy! hey hun - sometimes, you just need a moment. self-care has never been this easy. gummy vitamins from nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye: too much tear evaporation. for relief that's ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ remove contact lenses before using miebo. wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪

ask youwe all knowr about that words have power. they set things in motion and make us happy or sad. but there's one word that stands out, because when people say it, lives are changed. it's not a big word. it's itsy bitsy. it's only three little letters. but when you say it, the life of a kid like me can be changed. so what is this special word? it may surprise you. it's yes, yes, yes, yes to becoming a monthly supporter of shriners hospitals for children®. that's right! your monthly support allows the doctors and nurses at shriners hospitals for children® to give the most amazing care anywhere and change the lives of kids like me and me and me. because people like you have said yes. now i can play football

and i can play catch and i can walk. so what do you say? will you say yes? right now? it's so easy. all you have to do is pick up the phone or go to loveshriners.org right now and say yes. when you say yes to giving just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. we'll send you this adorable love to the rescue® blanket as a reminder of all the kids you're helping every day. my life is filled with possibility because of the monthly support of people just like you who called the number on your screen and said yes. yes, yes, yes. your yes is making a difference in my life and the lives of so many other kids like me. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you for giving. please call or go online now. if operators are busy, call again or go to loveshriners.org to say yes right away.

(auctioneer) let's start the bidding at 5 million dollars. if operators are busy, (man) robinhood gold members get a 3% ira match. while the wealthy hoard their perks, our retirement contributions are boosted by 3%. now with robinhood gold. california wildfires, we turn now to the role of social media, where misinformation related to the fires has surged. now, in times of crisis, people and communities these days often often turn to these programs and these platforms looking for additional information or to track loved ones, or to stay updated on unfolding events. in this case, as los angeles firefighters battled dangerous blazes, prominent right wing figures took to the internet to spread disinformation about the response and the causes of the fires, including blaming

diversity within the fire department for the devastation. unfortunately, this pattern has become all too common. a disaster strikes and partizan actors exploit the chaos, further muddying an already confusing and fast moving news landscape. with big tech moving toward looser restrictions under the trump era. analysts warn that the stakes are about to get even higher. this week, ceo mark zuckerberg announced that tech giant meta would end its third party fact checking program on its social media platforms. zuckerberg said that fact checkers had gone too far and are now, quote, too politically biased. end quote. he says meta will replace its fact checking program with a so-called community notes system, which is similar to what exists on the platform x, formerly twitter. shifting the responsibility of correcting misinformation from outside moderators to the users themselves. meta first launched its fact check program in 2016, following widespread criticism over the spread of misinformation on its platforms surrounding the presidential

election. initially, the company partnered with five fact checking organizations certified by the international fact-checking network, politifact, abc news, the associated press, factcheck.org, and snopes. these organizations were tasked with reviewing, flagging content, reviewing and flagging content, and rating content accuracy. now, it wasn't perfect because of the sheer volume of information, but the program did play an important role in debunking false claims, adding context to misleading content and limiting the spread of viral misinformation. at the time of its rollout, zuckerberg declared, quote, the bottom line is we take misinformation seriously, end quote. now, eight years later, zuckerberg says he's ending the program in defense of, quote, free speech, end quote. but critics say this is this about face is less rooted in principle and more about politics. or, as the new york times put it, a move based

on, quote, where the political winds are blowing, end quote. the announcement came less than two weeks before the new trump administration is set to take office. it also follows a personal trip that mark zuckerberg took to mar-a-lago in late november, where he dined with the president elect. meanwhile, the fact checkers are fact checking zuckerberg's characterization of their work. meta's fact checking partners quickly rejected his claims, stating they had no role in determining how the company handled the reviewed content. they say that meta was the final arbiter in deciding how to respond, whether by attaching warning labels, limiting a post's reach, or removing the content altogether. in a linkedin post, angie drobnic holan, director of the international fact-checking network, said, quote, fact checking journalism has never censored or removed posts. it's added information and context to controversial claims, and it's debunked hoax content and conspiracy theories. that attack line comes from those who feel

they should be able to exaggerate and lie without rebuttal or contradiction, end quote. erin shireman, the executive director of politifact, was similarly blunt, stating that zuckerberg's decision, quote, has nothing to do with free speech or censorship. mark zuckerberg's decision could not be less subtle, end quote. meanwhile, the european fact checking standards network went even further. fact checking zuckerberg's statements and deeming them to be patently false. the notion that fact checkers are politically biased is a deeply partizan issue in this country. a poynter institute survey from 19 from 2019 found that 70% of republicans believed that fact checking was one sided, while roughly the same percentage of democrats thought that it was fair. zuckerberg's justifications for ending the program, in fact, largely echo maga talking points, which have included threats of action against tech companies. in 2019, for example, republican senator josh hawley introduced a bill

targeting facebook and other platforms for alleged political bias. analysts warn that under trump, the u.s. may be entering a new era of a freewheeling internet where popular social media platforms operate without formal safeguards against deliberately spread disinformation, inadvertently spread misinformation, absolute lies and conspiracy theories. they caution that a healthy democratic discourse requires a basic level of empirical evidence, and that without it, the public risks becoming less informed and more susceptible to harmful propaganda. speaking to the new york times, nicole gil, executive director of accountable tech, called the decision, quote, a gift to extremists around the world, end quote. she warned the decision was inviting, quote, the exact same surge of hate, disinformation and conspiracy theories, end quote, that fueled the january 6th attack on the capitol. after a quick break, i'll dive into this news with two people who previously worked on meta's fact checking team, the aforementioned erin

sharockman from politifact, and chris richmond, ceo of snopes. we'll be right back. >> want the fastest working glp one for half the price? roam now offers fda approved weight loss injections cheaper with results. you can see faster. lose 15% of your weight with the formula from eli lilly that hits not one, but two hormones to curb hunger and nausea. weight loss faster confidence, higher. price faster confidence, higher. price clakesha: childhood cancer is-- it's a long road. it's hard. but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope that you have a chance at life. and it goes such a long way for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world. it's awesome. [music playing]

in and out of the bathtub becoming a safety concern? are you worried about the cost of a bathroom remodel that could go on for weeks and weeks? well, now you can have a gorgeous new bath or shower with a one day jacuzzi bath remodel that's safer at a price you can afford. >> it's incredible that they were able to do this in one day. oh my gosh, it is beautiful. >> oh, you have to see it. it was amazing how they fixed that bathroom in a day. >> you know what i like? >> also, it's easy to clean. >> jacuzzi has been making water feel great for more than 70 years. so, you know, it's a brand you can trust. and their products come with a lifetime warranty for a style you'll love for years to come. >> i've had a great experience from start to finish. i wish i would have done this five years ago. >> there has never been a better

time to buy. we're waiving all installation costs and postponing all payments for up to one year. there are so many designs to choose from, including my christina preferred collection. plus, we offer free, personalized in-home design services to build the bath you've always wanted right in your own space. and let's talk about accessories. from soft, closed shower doors and adjustable shower heads to features like grab bars and custom seats that combine safety and style to keep you feeling comfortable and independent for years to come. plus, cleanup's a breeze with no grimy grout and no scrubbing. it just rinses clean. it's never been easier. get your free design consultation, schedule your one day installation and start loving your new bath or shower right away. >> call or go online to jacuzzi bath remodel.com for a limited time. >> we're waiving installation costs on your new bath or shower. plus we're postponing payments for one full year. go to jacuzzi, bath, remodel.com or

call (800) 994-5413. that's (800) 994-5413. >> call now. >> gary used car shopping. can't hurt you. but what if i overpay? come out and i'll show you a better way. well, you said. i know. i said nearly half of all used cars have been in an accident. but there's no reason to shop with fear. well, show me carfax. knowing how a car's accident history impacts price means, you don't have to overpay. >> i wasn't scared. >> sure. can we talk about the pjs? >> i'll talk about them. as long as you keep it positive. because i like these things. >> no fear. just fox. say, show me a carfax com. >> i think people just felt like the fact checkers were too biased. not necessarily even so much. and what they ruled. although sometimes i think people would disagree with that. a lot of the time it was just what types of things they chose to even go and fact check in the first in the first place. i

don't know. it's something out of like, you know, 1984, one of these books where it's just like it really is a slippery slope, and it just got to a point where it's just, okay, this is destroying so much trust, especially in the united states, to have this program. >> well, he said all the words they're destroying trust. like 1984 slippery slope. that was meta ceo mark zuckerberg. as you probably know on the joe rogan experience podcast yesterday, discussing his decision to end the company's partnership with these third party fact checkers on its platforms facebook, instagram and threads. i'm now joined by two people who worked on that fact checking consortium. aaron sharockman is the executive director of politifact and vice president of sales and strategy partnerships for the poynter institute for media studies. and chris richmond is the ceo and co-owner of snopes. gentlemen, good to see you. thank you for being with us. i couldn't have scripted that if you were writing a movie to dramatize what has actually happened here, you'd script what mark zuckerberg said. aaron on on joe

rogan. the idea that this is like 1984 and it's a slippery slope. and you folks, the fact checkers were the ones destroying trust in social media. social media was so trustworthy and so amazing before you all got involved. aaron, what were you. what did you do to it? you broke it. >> it's an interesting lesson in history. >> and really, we are here because of the 2016 election. that's why facebook created this program in the first place, over the objections in many cases of mark zuckerberg. i should point out, he did not think misinformation was a big problem on his platform at that point. it is so strange that i'm here today defending a program that the ceo of the same company said essentially is an abject failure. for eight years. it's beyond me that we've come to this point. but as i've noted, it's not a subtle decision by zuckerberg. this is completely transparent. fact checking works. and it's not about

censorship. it's about adding more information and more speech, not subtracting or removing speech. and i think we are we are the scapegoats this week. and that's okay. you know, we're the referees sometimes and that's part of it. but it's unbelievable that we've gotten to this point so quickly. yeah. >> we in media become scapegoats for a lot of things. you after a while you just get used to it. chris. the you know and i want to make a distinction. we're calling you guys fact checkers. but we are all, as journalists supposed to be fact checkers. that is part of our our job. it's only but, you know, in recent years we've had to delineate that part of our job. specifically, chris, mark says that the fact checkers have become, his words, politically biased, and that shifting to this community note system will presumably crowdsource it. it becomes a fairer approach. talk to me about that, because one's mind might say crowdsourcing should help. it does improve a lot of things in life, but sometimes it doesn't. so how do

we how should we think about this? >> well, i think taking a step back first, let's let's talk about how mark zuckerberg is saying, oh, well, the fact checkers are biased. fact checkers are causing censorship. and we've already established that facebook was one of the determine when posts are taken down or not. but let's look at the most famous example of facebook censoring content. and that was the hunter biden laptop story. and we say, well, it was fact checkers, right? who told zuckerberg to limit the reach of that? no, it was the government. so facebook complied with the government and then the fact checkers get the blame. if kamala harris would have won, would he be taking any of these same actions now? no, he complied with what the government wanted. then he is complying what the new administration wants now. but that's not to say that there's not some good in the change that he's making. i agree that the community node system is great. it should be transparent. the problem is that facebook has this black box system that they can do what they want and just

pass off the blame, like we want a more transparent system. we should be pushing to community nodes. but to say that you're going to remove fact checkers as part of the process, i think that's where the issue is. and i can tell you firsthand that community nodes with a free community fact checking doesn't get the job done, because a large percentage of the fact checks that we're doing every day is from misinformation we see going viral on x. so community nodes is a great system, but it just can't keep up with just the free community. >> right? we probably need aggregates of things. none i think, aaron, you would agree with that resulted in censorship. i mean, censorship is something that is a i agree with mark, if that's what you're thinking about. that's a slippery slope, but that's not what you were thinking about. that's not what chris was thinking about. that's not what you were thinking about. and in fact, others argue, including the analyst matt stoller, who says this is actually about something else. this is about business. this is about keeping facebook from regulatory

scrutiny. it's about getting donald trump off of facebook or social media is back, in fact, in a post in x, stoller notes, the better question is why a single individual has this much power over our speech. commons. the further question is what zuckerberg wants from our government. let's be clear these are all a result of this one guy having far too much power. but the truth is, oligarchy and democracy just cannot coexist. your thoughts? >> yeah, i really want to caution zuckerberg and joel kaplan, the george former george w bush adviser who's kind of leading the policy arm of facebook, now talked about mimicking what they're building after elon musk's ex. and if anyone has been on x for the past two, two and a half years, i don't think you think that's a successful platform. their communities notes program. this is, i think, a shocking stat. only 9% of the community notes that are are created are actually posted. that's because

the concept is you want different people agreeing on the note. well, guess what? in a highly polarized society, in a highly polarized world, people don't agree on a lot and their interest is to defend themselves and their beliefs. journalists act in a different interest, right? the interest of the truth. and even if you would say, well, journalists, in the case of politifact, they're acting in their interest to get paid by facebook. well, then you would at least agree that journalists would want to be right, because if they were wrong over and over again, facebook would say, well, we're not going to pay you. so i didn't have to be an either or. and i think that's the politics gets in. it could have been a both. i think there are multiple solutions to this. no solution is perfect. but but the reality here is, i think for people on facebook going forward, you're going to see an environment where you're not going to be able to trust what you see more so than you did yesterday. and i think that's ultimately a

problem. >> and chris, this doesn't have to be an either or is an obvious thing, even as it relates to free speech. when again, these social media bosses know full well that our free speech protections are about government imposition on free speech, not not corporate impositions, but to some degree, platforms do moderate content in many cases just to appease their advertisers or because of what we believe is socially acceptable. for instance, they restrict sexually suggestive content. zuckerberg accepts that balancing act in some areas, prioritizing concerns about that over free speech. but in this case, on joe rogan's show, it's all about free speech. it's a contradiction, if you ask me. >> yeah, and i think that zuckerberg should also consider, from a business standpoint, what happened to x when they removed all these restrictions, a large percentage of their advertisers left. so this problem is worth billions of dollars. to not get wrong with zuckerberg. so i think that he, you know, by by

he's trying to gain favor with the current administration, but he's missing the possibility of the downside by doing this, by removing the safeguards. and, you know, we want it to be transparent. we don't want this black box system. so that is a step in the right direction. but you need people working full time trying to research and find the context. otherwise, you know, it might not be the win that they're thinking it is for either political party. because just imagine how much easier it will be for the media or either political party to make up lies about the other side and go, well, i don't have to worry about being fact checked. now, let's just let's just see what this goes. as long as this helps me, that is in fact, the slippery slope. >> gentlemen, thanks so much for your time. thanks for the work that you do. thanks to your colleagues for trying to keep us as well informed as we can be. aaron rockman is the executive director of politifact. chris richmond is the ceo and co-owner of snopes. straight ahead. new evacuation orders issued overnight for neighborhoods in los angeles. crews continue to try and contain multiple wildfires. we're going to bring

you the very latest, including a report from the ground. she's report from the ground. she's back after a quick break. [coughing] hi susan, honey? yea. i respect that, but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin, with real honey & elderberry. clinically tested. >> my hair is much stronger and longer. >> i feel like i'm a completely different person. >> get growing at nutrafol. >> com. meet avocados. best selling green mattress made with certified organic cotton, wool and latex, plus ergonomic coils to support your body's natural curves for cool and restorative sleep. featuring a one year in-home sleep trial, complete your bed with organic pillows

and bedding. shop today at and bedding. shop today at prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water, and for zero heartburn 1 prilosec a day... beats taking up to 10 antacids a day. it's that simple, for 24 hour heartburn relief... one beats ten. prilosec otc. do. >> sounds like linda has you beat only in coverage let's say you're deep in a show or a game or the game. on a train, at home, at work. okay, maybe not at work. point is at xfinity. we're constantly engineering new ways to get the entertainment you love to you faster and easier than ever. that's what i do. is that love island?

treatment plan 100% online@forhours.com. >> good morning. saturday, january 11th. we begin today again, continuing with coverage of these catastrophic wildfires in california that have incinerated about 58mi!s of the greater los angeles area. remember, this is one of the most popul