back to see whether their childhood homes or their current homes are still standing. and so our thoughts are with all of them across california who are who are trying to get back, who are hoping those winds stop blowing, who are hoping that those fires get under control. but until that's over, we will keep covering it right here on msnbc. that does it for me. thank you for watching. insight with jen psaki begins right now. >> from a blame game over wildfires to threats of territorial expansion, elected officials here and foreign leaders everywhere are bracing for donald trump's return to office in eight days. >> among them is prime minister of canada justin trudeau, who joined me here in studio for a sunday exclusive. >> plus, trump is officially sentenced in new york. jack smith has officially resigned from the justice department, and andrew weissmann is going to tell us what all of it means. and later, all those devastating wildfires continue to tear through southern california.

i'll talk to congresswoman judy chu, who says the devastation in her district is beyond belief. in just the last six days, more than 100,000 people have been forced from their homes. more than 12,000 structures have been destroyed. at least 16 people are dead, according to recent numbers, and many more are injured, all as a result of the wildfires tearing through southern california. it is a completely devastating scene. all of the photos, and we're not going to even know the full scope of the impact for some time. it's also a disaster that prompts a lot of questions about how this happened and what can what comes next. we're going to dig into a lot of that today as much as we can. but those are also the kind of questions, perhaps more importantly, that the next president should be spending his time on. i mean, california is the most populous state in the country. any

incoming president of either party would drop everything to focus on how to prepare to help. when he's inaugurated eight days from now. but that's not exactly trump's approach to date. i mean, he's blaming fema for having no money, which is not true. he's blaming governor gavin newsom for not approving a water restoration declaration, a declaration that newsom's office says does not exist. he's even blaming a small, endangered fish, saying newsom deprived the area of water because he wanted to protect the fish. and while there is plenty of blame to go around, unfortunately that's all trump seems to have up his sleeve. blame. and all of this is just another reminder that when it comes to donald trump, he loves nothing more than having us all spend all of our time debating the validity of his accusations. he knows the craziest distracting the partizan attacks that he throws out. there are complete catnip, and the wilder the accusations, the more likely it is that we are talking about that instead

of what he is or isn't prepared to do as president. i mean, at this point, we know trump is going to take any chance he can get to name, call and bully and blame gavin newsom. we know that. but what doesn't get as much attention and what should get more attention is the possibility that trump could actually threaten to withhold funding to california when he gets back in office. that is literally something as crazy as it sounds that maga whisperer charlie kirk suggested this week that trump should do. and when president biden was asked this week if the trump administration would continue his guarantee for the federal government to cover 100% of all costs to fight the fires, he offered this somewhat ominous answer i'm not in a position to answer that question. >> i pray god they will. >> i pray to god they will. that means i hope so, but i have no idea. because who knows what that guy's going to do? and in an interview that aired just this morning on meet the press, governor newsom said trump hasn't responded to his invitation to visit california and expressed real fear about

trump withholding funding when he gets back into office. >> you did invite him to come out here. >> have you had any response? no. >> nothing. multiple times, mr. trump has threatened to withhold aid for california wildfires, both as president and now again as president elect. are you worried that he might actually do that? >> i mean, he's done it. utah. he's done it. michigan native, puerto rico. he did it to california back before i was even governor. i mean, it's what he said. he said, i'm not going to support the firefighting efforts. i'm not going to support the state of california as it relates to its emergency management. he made this pretty clear during the election. unless they do my bidding, steve, your gavin newsom, you are dealing with insults and social media attacks, of course, but you're also dealing with the possibility that the incoming president is going to make it harder for the people in your state to recover. >> so there's the rhetoric, the insults and the trolling. we hear all that all the time. and then there's the concerns we should actually be focused on, which is what trump might actually do or refuse to do in some cases. it's a big reminder

that we need to pay attention to trump's potential actions over his words, and that's a useful way of thinking across the board right now. i mean, it's the same story with his legal problems, right? on friday, trump was sentenced in new york. he received no actual punishment apart from being officially branded a convicted felon. but he still spent the day railing against the judge and the justice system all the same. you've heard before nothing new, but again, that was all predictable. we know by now that trump is going to complain about his legal problems. we know he is going to lob crazy insults in late night truth socials. what we really need to start paying more attention to is the fact that soon, in eight days, he might actually use the justice department to go after these prosecutors and after confirmation hearings starting next week, he might even have the exact people in place to help him do that. there's a similar story unfolding with trump's secret obsession with territorial expansion of all things. i mean, any chance he gets. lately, trump is spouting off about taking over greenland, controlling the panama canal, renaming the gulf of mexico, and of course, making canada the

51st state. he's talking a huge, headline grabbing, expansionist game. it's just a shiny object, though. it's just an effort to yank our chains, as my brilliant colleague rachel maddow would say, and rev up his base, get them looking at something else. all of us. just this weekend, in a meeting with house republicans at mar a lago, he reportedly raised this push about territorial expansion and said it's bringing optimism and energy back to the us. it is. i mean, see, to him it's just a game. he will continue to play it. but again, we all need to pay less attention to his trolling and everything he's throwing out there and more attention to his promises, like his promise to impose 25% tariffs on goods from mexico and canada on day one, tariffs that could raise prices right here in the united states, launch an economic crisis, even, and start a trade war with our neighbors. tariffs that even trump himself couldn't guarantee wouldn't end up costing americans more. so yeah, trump said a lot this week, as he often does. he said a lot about gavin newsom and the justice system and expanding the

boundaries of the united states, of all things. and in eight days, when he becomes president again, he will continue to say a lot of things. he's also going to start doing a lot of things, and that is where our attention needs to be. joining me now is the prime minister of canada, justin trudeau. prime minister trudeau, it's great to see you. thank you for taking the time out of your busy visit to washington to join me here in studio. >> i'm glad to be here. >> and you're, of course, here for the state funeral of former president carter. you also, canada has also been assisting in responding to the wildfires out in california, including with canadian water bombers in the sky, which i know is something greatly appreciated by the people of california. i wanted to ask you. it is it is clearly a fraught time in us canada relations, and this all seems to me to be a clear effort and concerted effort to make make clear to the public that this is an important relationship, that canada is committed to this relationship. is that a fair read? >> well, i was going to be here no matter what, whenever president carter passed away

because he'd shown up for my father 25 years ago during during my father's funeral. and it was it was a tremendous friendship, not just between our countries, but between those, those two men. so being there for him was was important for me in regards to the fires. well, we went through some horrific fires over the past years as well. and american firefighters showed up for us and we're glad to help out in any way. unfortunately, we have now developed a level of expertise around wildfire interface with urban areas where we're there to help out with whether it's transport planes or coast guard cutters or water bombers or even firefighters. it's all there to help. help our friends in california. >> i know it's greatly appreciated the contributions that they're making. you may disagree with my suggestion that it's a fraught relationship, but i think some see it that way. but i think one of the reasons is because donald trump is, of course, going to be inaugurated in just over a week from now. he has been pushing this idea of

making canada the 51st state. i know that's not something you've taken too kindly to, but how seriously do you take that threat? >> i mean, let's remember i got to work with president trump through his first four years in office, and we were able to renegotiate the most important trade deal either of us have, which is the canada-u.s. free trade deal, in a way that was beneficial to both our countries. and i know that as a as a successful negotiator, he likes to keep people a little off balance. the 51st state, that's not going to happen. it's just a nonstarter. canadians are incredibly proud of being canadian, but people are now talking about that as opposed to talking about, for example, what the impact of 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum coming into the united states on energy, whether it's oil and gas or electricity? i mean, no american wants to pay 25% more for electricity or oil and gas coming in from canada. and

that's something that i think people need to pay a little more attention to. and perhaps the, the, the idea of, of a 51st state is, is distracting a little bit from a very real question that will increase the cost of living for, for americans and harm a trading relationship that works extremely well. >> it's not just canada. he's talking about taking over greenland and the panama canal. in addition to annexing canada through economic force, as he said. do you think is this bullying? is it trolling you or should we not take seriously his expansionist desires? >> no, no, i think i think we definitely need to take that seriously. i think from my very first conversations with him way back in 2016, he told me how much he admires canada, how much he appreciates and likes us. so. so i think there is a certain amount of flattery in this that he thinks that we are as great as we are. he's right. we are great. we are also very, very proud of being canadian. if you

talk to any canadian, you ask them to define what it is to be a canadian. they'll talk about all sorts of different things, but one of the things we will point out is and we're not americans. >> i mean, he's been calling you the 51st governor. do you take that as a compliment? does that not bother you at all? how do you feel about that? >> i've been in politics an awfully long time. i tend to focus on the substantive things and not on, you know, people choosing nicknames for me. i mean, if i was that thin skinned, i probably wouldn't last that long in politics. >> that is that is fair. but you did make a trip down to mar-a-lago, and you did meet with the former and future president. what was that like? tell me about that conversation. >> it was nice to reconnect with him. obviously, we had some some good conversations about about what we were going to be able to do together. he very clearly expressed what he had talked about in his tweet a few few days before that. he has concerns about the border between canada and the united states, particularly around

migration and around around fentanyl. i was pleased to highlight that less than 1% of the illegal migrants. less than 1% of the fentanyl that comes into the united states comes from canada. so we're not a problem, but we're happy to and we've actually responded to his request for us to do more with billions of dollars worth of investments, to even further strengthen the security at our borders. >> i'm assuming he didn't bring up his intention to publicly say he was going to annex through economic means, your country. >> it actually, it actually sort of came up at one point. and then we started musing back and forth about this. and when i started to suggest, well, maybe there could be a trade for vermont or california or from, for, for certain parts. he immediately decided that it was not not that funny anymore. and we moved on to a different conversation. so this isn't this isn't out of the blue that he's doing this. but my focus has to be not on something that he's talking about that will not ever

happen, but more on something that might well happen that if he does choose to go forward with tariffs that raise the cost of just about everything for american citizens, that on top of that, we're going to have to have a robust response to that. >> i want to ask you about your decision to resign, but you're staying on until the party elects a new leader sometime in march. but between now and then, the parliament is suspended. so for the american public, for others watching right now who are trying to understand what levers you have, if he isn't listening to the this rational argument, what are you prepared to do if he actually does this into the first couple of weeks of his presidency, as we did last time, we are ready to respond with tariffs as necessary. >> you may remember when donald trump put put tariffs on canadian steel and aluminum, which did nothing but rise, raise the cost of steel and aluminum for american consumers. we responded by putting tariffs on things like bourbon

harley-davidsons, orange juice, playing cards, these sorts of things that canadians could find replacements for so they wouldn't have to pay more for those money, that money. and it ended up causing a lot of loss in in american businesses, for whom canada is their number one export partner, we are the number one export partner of about 35 different u.s. states. and anything that thickens the border between us ends up costing american citizens and american jobs. that's not what president trump got elected to do. i know he got elected to try and make life easier for all americans to support american workers. these are things that are going to hurt them. >> let me ask you about your decision to resign more broadly. you've obviously talked publicly about this, but there are trends around the world that we've seen here in the united states. we've seen them across europe. obviously, you've been impacted by them. we're incumbents. it's an anti-incumbency movement around the world. you also said

when you resigned that you wanted to give your party a chance to win. so i think from your perspective, i'm wondering, is it more of a global trend issue in terms of where your approval ratings are now, which is the lowest they've been in your tenure nearly ten years, or is it a you issue as people should understand it? >> well, i think it's probably a bit of everything. i mean, right now there's a there's a political cycle where incumbents, particularly those who steered us through covid. i mean, canada did extraordinarily well through covid, better than just about every other peer, tens of thousands less fewer deaths proportionately than than than our friends and allies around the world. we inflation hit less hard. our economy bounced back faster. it was good. but there is still a lingering frustration towards incumbents. and for me, where i lean in on is all the good things we were able to do. we've put forward policies that are going to make a difference for decades to come in canada, and i

think right now we're seeing a time in politics where emotions and social media is carrying an awful lot of weight in how people feel about things. but i'm always going to lean back on what are the substantive things that are being done, what are the substantive measures that make a big difference in people's lives and standing up for the vulnerable, supporting people who need it? building an economy that works for the middle class. these are things that ultimately make the biggest difference in people's lives. >> one of the challenges or the things the democratic party here in the united states has been grappling with post-election, is this critique that they're out of touch with the public? and that's one of the critiques of the liberal party in canada as well. you've obviously made a decision to resign. are there any lessons that can be learned from your time and what you've experienced for people here in the united states democratic party? >> one of the things that progressives, whether they're liberals or democrats on either side of the border, need to remain focused on is cost of

living and the economy. we're projected to have the fastest growing economy in the g7 even faster than the united states next year. these are things that that we did because we made sure that there were fewer barriers for minorities and women and vulnerable people to participate in the workforce. that's an economic narrative. that's understanding that you do better when everyone has a chance to contribute fully, but you can easily turn that into a woke argument that says, oh, you're just, you know, working for minorities and women and you're not taking care of the economy. well, the capacity of the political right, and quite frankly, social media to gin up that kind of dynamic and fall into culture wars and divisions that actually don't stand up to the hard economic truth of the growth we've been able to create in canada is part of the challenge we have, and that's

part of the challenge we're facing as a world right now where people are very much in a place where affordability, where reasonable answers, where medium and long term policies aren't what they want to hear about. they want they want things to get better right away. and you do have people promising to make things better right away, which is very attractive sometimes, even if the ability to do that isn't always clear. >> before i let you go, you've been in office. you've been the prime minister for nearly ten years. it's going to be a strange adjustment, i assume. what are you most looking forward to? >> i'm looking forward to resting, to taking a bit of a break to, you know, it's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason. spending more time with my kids. my kids have my two older kids have about a year and a half left in high school before they go off to university. the idea of being there for them as an active dad, making lunches and home when they get home from school is something that's really, really

exciting to me that i got into politics because i have kids, not in spite of my kids. i want to serve and build a better world. i think we did some really big things over these almost ten years. now it's time to be able to focus on ourselves as a family. >> prime minister justin trudeau, it's a pleasure speaking with you today. thank you so much for taking the time. you can watch an extended version of my conversation with prime minister trudeau on the msnbc youtube page. coming up, a sentencing in new york. a big resignation at the justice department. and new comments from j.d. vance about pardoning january 6th insurrectionists. our friend andrew weissmann is standing by, and he joins me standing by, and he joins me next. watch your step! that's why visionworks makes it simple to schedule an eye exam that works for you. even if you have a big trip to plan around. thanks! i mean, i can see you right now if that's...convenient. visionworks. see the difference. (♪♪)

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basically, that means he won't face any real consequences for breaking the law, except the stigma, of course, of being criminally convicted by a jury. it's a small measure of accountability. and the only one of trump's four criminal cases to actually go to trial. and it comes as jack smith, who led the two federal prosecutions of trump, quietly resigned his post as special counsel this week. of course, this was all expected, but there was no announcement, no press release. his departure was actually revealed in a footnote in a legal filing. so all of this concludes a chapter in american politics that tested the limits of accountability under the law. but it now also marks the beginning of a new chapter where those who perpetrated the events of january 6th are celebrated and maybe even pardoned. joining me now is andrew weissmann, former general counsel at the fbi and a senior member of special counsel robert mueller's team. i just want to start with the big picture here, andrew. i mean, we talked about this last week, but it feels a little bit like the end of a chapter on these legal

cases. and maybe that this could incentivize this kind of behavior without consequences in the future. i mean, there's only one trump, but just in general. but how are you thinking about this moment? >> well, if you think about the idea that there could be pardons for the people who were involved in january 6th, it is it gets to be a pretty dystopian world that when you think that somebody could be committing crimes as outrageous and horrendous as not just attacking, attacking police officers, but really attacking our democracy and doing it at the behest of the president, but would face no criminal consequences, at least federally, because they're either the department of justic. >> under trump, 2.0 will not go after them, or they could be pardoned for prior crimes or future crimes that they commit at his behest. >> so we really could be entering a lawless world. it remains to be seen. it's going to be a real challenge for those

people in the department of justice. when you have a convicted felon as the president. but it remains to be seen. but it is a scary prospect, especially when you're thinking about the january 6th defendants and what a lot of this is scary, as you noted. >> i mean, trump is going to be inaugurated eight days from now, and he will have pardon power when he's inaugurated. j.d. vance is incoming. vice president was actually asked about this this morning. i just want to play what he had to say. >> if you protested peacefully on january the 6th and you had merrick garland's department of justice treat you like a gang member, you should be pardoned. if you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn't be pardoned. and there's a little bit of a gray area there, but we're very much committed to seeing the equal administration of law. and there are a lot of people, we think, in the wake of january the 6th who were prosecuted unfairly, we need to rectify that. >> so i don't want to give him credit. i don't want to predict

something we don't know is going to happen. but what did you hear in that answer? >> well, it's interesting. >> i heard a lot of walking back from, you know, the sort of trump rallies where he embraced explicitly, sort of everybody who participated in this violent insurrection that seemed to be walking back, the sort of the people who would be the proud boys, the oath keepers, who engaged in or convicted of violent acts. but i think people should remember we all saw with our eyes, and we're going to see again if there are pardons of people who participated in the violent attack on the capitol to sit there. nobody was prosecuted just for showing up and peacefully protesting. there's a first amendment right. that was not part of why people were convicted, had nothing to do with free speech. it had nothing to do with their political views. people were prosecuted

for actions. and so i'm not just focusing on what j.d. vance said. and, you know, he is a yale educated lawyer, so he knows this. the people who were prosecuted that was not sort of a nonviolent participation in a peaceful protest. it was actually an attack on the capitol, at the very least. >> right. gray areas, doing a lot of work in that answer. but we're not going to we don't have to answer in his behalf. we'll keep talking about this before i let you go. it seems to me that one of the last legal battles right now, actually, before trump takes office, we'll see what else happens after is about the release of this report from jack smith, which would have to happen between now and his inauguration. do you think we're going to see it? what's your gut? >> well, judge cannon is clearly doing everything she possibly can in the most judicious way. i really don't have enough time to talk about all of the ways that she is just really, i think,

just just a disgrace to so many judges, including judges appointed by donald trump, who are really good judges. and she is really tarred them in terms of her actions here. i do think the 11th circuit is going to step in and we will see the release of the part of the report that deals with january 6th. but merrick garland himself has said that he is not planning on publicly releasing the part of the report about the classified documents part of the case. i think that's a mistake, and i think there could be substantial information in there about a lot of people, including kash patel, so we'll see what happens with that. >> that is a very important point. we're going to talk more about that. andrew weissmann, thank you so much as always. really appreciate it. coming up, while firefighters in southern california work to contain the devastating and deadly wildfires, misinformation and lies continue to spread thanks

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100% drug free and clinically tested. >> my hair is longer, thicker nutrafol is life changing for me. >> get growing at nutrafol. com. >> even as firefighters in southern california continue working to stop the flames, hundreds of thousands of people have already been forced from their homes. neighborhoods have been reduced to ash, and authorities have reported at least 16 deaths. this is already projected to be the most costly wildfire outbreak in u.s. history. and with these fires still burning, we are facing important questions about how to mitigate and prevent disasters like this in the future. the fact is, leaders will need to confront a very complicated and challenging reality moving forward. but right now, that is not exactly what is happening. instead, donald trump and his allies are injecting half truths, misinformation and flat out lies in some cases in order to score a version of political points, i suppose. we saw

something similar play out just this past october, in the aftermath of hurricanes helene and milton, when trump repeatedly lied about fema spending disaster relief funds on migrants, which didn't happen. also baselessly claiming that the biden administration was absent and incompetent in delivering aid, despite what elected officials of both parties on the ground said. those lies were then spread and amplified by the richest man in the world on the social media site that he owns. so i guess none of us should have been shocked this week when elon musk posted that the los angeles fire department prioritized die over saving lives and homes. that's an exact quote that appeared to be a disgusting dig at the city's fire chief, christine crowley, who has served in the department for decades, rising through the ranks to become the first female and lgbtq fire chief in la's history. musk also amplified a post this week from conspiracy theorist alex jones. yes, that guy is still around. alex jones wrote that los angeles fires are part of a

larger globalist plot to wage economic warfare and de-industrialize the united states before triggering total collapse. i'm not sure that guy is okay. musk responded by to that post by writing true. yes. just to repeat here, that's just the richest man in the world and the best friend of the incoming president. confirming to his 200 million followers that he thinks the devastating wildfires are a part of a globalist plot. and so now we're back in this vicious cycle where trump and his new bestie push lies about a natural disaster. and then right wing media runs with them. >> i'll say it out loud they have no intention of putting out these fires. >> all these people are focused on pronouns and fish you can't eat. >> and, you know, scrubbing white people from the fire department die. >> as elon musk said, can actually mean die in the events like this. >> you sort of look, oh, is it

on purpose? >> i can make all kinds of horrible theories up in my head, conspiracy theories and everything else, but it just seemed a little convenient that there was no water and it and that the wind conditions were right and that there are people ready and willing and able to start fires. and are they commissioned to do so, or are they just acting on their own volition? i don't know. >> that's a conspiracy theorist playing all out on tv and nobody questioning him. i mean, lies like those during a natural disaster are obviously dangerous for a whole bunch of reasons. they make response efforts more difficult, and they also distract from the very real and very complicated issues that we need to prevent them from happening again. the climate has long been in crisis. for california, that means drier conditions and more intense fires. and there's clear evidence that these destructive events are only becoming more and more likely. just look at this 2022 chart from cal fire. the destruction from wildfires in 2020 and 2021 burned more acres than the rest of the list

combined. and if we are going to effectively deal with that reality, we need our leaders to be talking about real, concrete steps we can make to safeguard our well-being from increasingly destructive natural disasters, whether it's through new funding changes or overhauls to water systems or new housing policies to fireproof homes. and i realize when we talk about undertaking huge changes to protect entire cities from events like this, there are no easy answers. it's not an excuse to avoid hard questions, and it's even more of a reason to ignore the loud and powerful voices out there that would rather blame this disaster on die. as david wallace-wells writes in the new york times, quote, unimaginable is no fire as no firebreak against the future, refusing to imagine it is no excuse either. and david is no excuse either. and david wallace-wells joins me next. prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water, and for zero heartburn 1 prilosec a day... beats taking up to 10 antacids a day.

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media lately, you've likely seen the endless finger pointing and wild conspiracy theories about the devastating wildfires in los angeles that i just talked about. as my next guest put it, quote on social media these days, the need to find fault is so strong that if there isn't a villain, the event may as well have never taken place. the reality, he says, is that we are just not prepared for fires like this, and that's an important part of the conversation, the most important part. joining me now is the author of the piece i just mentioned, new york times columnist david wallace-wells. he's covered the climate crisis extensively for years. he's also the author of the number one new york times bestseller, the uninhabitable earth. so, david, this piece, which i printed, anybody can read online. it is very thought provoking and important. it raises so many things people should be talking about in this moment. and there's just so much disinformation out there that's hard for people who aren't experts to wade through. there are obviously some legitimate questions, which you say about things like funding for fire prevention and the fire hydrant water supply, other other things that you mentioned in your piece. i guess my question to

you, you've covered this issue for so long is, would any of those things have made a significant difference here, or do you think it's more important for us to have a much bigger conversation about this issue? >> i think it's hard to know at this stage exactly what difference would have been made if over the last five years, say, since the last major fires burning through malibu, la, had taken a different approach to fire prevention, it's not like it would have been easy to retrofit all of the homes of the palisades, not to mention all of the other fire prone neighborhoods in the city in that amount of time. >> and the winds were so intense, it was this was just a truly exceptional event and probably would have been brutally devastating no matter what had been done in the recent past. and i actually think it's worth pausing there just for a moment to remind your viewers and everyone watching. i mean, you know, we can talk about the disinformation. it's, i think, grotesque and horrible. we can talk about lessons to draw, but on some level, it is just a horrifying modern story that we

are witnessing here. a huge neighborhood in one of the world's great capitals, literally wiped off the map in the space of an evening, and another one devastated. on the other side of town, fires are still burning in los angeles. homes are still going up in flames. this is a truly, truly horrible event. now, what does that tell us about how los angeles will be handling fire going forward? i think it means we have to adjust to a new reality in which climate change has made fire a much more present threat, even in fire prone places like california. and we need to be much more aggressive about protecting ourselves against those threats than we have been in the past. the reason we haven't, i think, is not the fault of gavin newsom. it's not the fault of the la fire department. it's not the fault of karen bass. it's the fault of all of us collectively, who have not yet really faced up to the changing risk landscape in a place like california and everything it demands of us to do to protect one another. >> you raised such an important

point. i mean, the winds are still strong. we're all watching this. 16 lives have been lost. hundreds, 1000, hundreds of people have lost their homes. we're all still learning a lot. it's going to it's going to take time to learn more. the title of your piece and you've addressed this a little bit, but i want to ask you a little bit more is you don't get disasters like the palisades fire without human failure. so with that in mind, as we get to the stage of the community recovering and looking to how to prevent this in the future, what does this look like and what questions do you hope that local officials, federal officials are asking that are outside of the political debate here? >> well, i think there are basically two huge buckets. one is how do we deal with the natural landscape of a place like southern california or indeed northern california, which poses some different risks, but is also important to manage to reduce the risk of truly catastrophic, large scale, intense wildfires from breaking out. that has to do with how we manage the forests, whether we thin out what fire people call the fuel of dry, dead trees in

southern california, it's brush. how we can do controlled burning and mechanical thinning of the landscape so that when, you know an ignition happens, there isn't nearly as much fuel lying around. but i think the lesson of the palisades experience here in particular, and in altadena as well, is that we have to understand that this this is a new era of urban firestorms in which fires are now no longer just burning through trees and sometimes encountering human settlements. they are now often turning those human settlements into fuel. it's not just trees that they are burning. it's not just brush that they are burning. they often start in those places, but then they start burning from house to house, turning those homes into fuel. and we have to really make a huge conceptual step and start thinking about how we build and rebuild and protect the homes that we already have, so that they are not nearly as flammable as they appear to have been. that means, you know, reroofing. it means clearing on the sides of your homes. firefighters say even a five foot break without flammable material on the

outside of the homes makes them much less vulnerable to fire. it means thinking again at the level of urban planning about where there are natural fire breaks in the community, and not just assuming that when you look at a place like palisades, where you know it's a suburban, maybe even urban environment, you know, after house after house, lots of concrete, not all that much flammable material. we can't look at that environment and think it's safe because it looks urban. in fact, it may be more dangerous and more damaging than the wild land that we've worried about so long for the last couple of decades. >> david wallace-wells, your expertise is so important at moments like this to raise these important questions. thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. i really appreciate it. and coming up, a reminder that people from all walks of life have been devastated by the wildfires in southern california, and there is particular sadness hovering over middle class communities in altadena, like in communities like altadena. congresswoman judy chu, who represents altadena, is standing by. she altadena, is standing by. she jo ♪ rinse it out ♪ ♪ every now and then ♪

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♪♪ did you take your vitamin today? that's my job. ♪♪ nature made. made with quality ingredients. (glasses clink) made to care for you, every day. ♪♪ from nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. the fire? >> i lost everything. >> i'm a guy with everything to nothing. >> i said my whole life helping people. i didn't think it would happen to me, but it did. >> but i have my health and my life. the young man today drove at least 2 or 300 people to see their houses, and offered to

give them some money for gas. >> he says, no, i won't take it. walk because you wouldn't take it. >> maybe he's going to be my replacement, which wouldn't be bad. >> you know, i'm one of these dumb guys. think you can save the world? i would think that way till i die. i've been knocked down before, but not like this. times are tough, but i'm not giving up. >> that was 83 year old walt butler. he's a well known business owner in the close knit community of altadena, and his story is a reminder that while some people may think of los angeles and the surrounding area as a city of movie stars and millionaires, there are so many more walt's, so many more hard working middle class residents and families from all sorts of walks of life who now will have to rebuild everything that they've lost. joining me now is congresswoman judy chu. she represents a district that includes altadena and pasadena, where the eaton fire has been burning for days. congresswoman, it's great to see you. this is such a tough time. and i just want to start by asking you how you are and your family and your community. i mean, the one thing we keep hearing is that people don't just know one person, they

know multiple people impacted. and that feels like it must take an incredible mental toll. >> well, i am so devastated by the stories that i'm hearing from people in the altadena and pasadena area. >> i can't walk even a few feet without somebody telling me that they've lost their homes and they've lost everything that they had. they ran out of the house with only what they could carry. i have also toured the devastation in altadena and pasadena. >> there are blocks and blocks of just nothing. >> things burned down to their foundation and we have major institutions in these places that are burned to a crisp. the altadena town and country club, where so many events took place, the pasadena jewish temple, the altadena community church, the altadena mosque, all gone. so

they have to build up again. >> and when i think of the vibrancy and the creativity of people in altadena, their devotion to community, i just know that this community is resilient and will build itself back up to what it was before. >> tell us about some of the people in altadena and pasadena. and i raise this because you just sometimes people who don't live in california see on the news this celebrity's home was lost, which is obviously terrible, but it doesn't always feel like it's middle class working families who are the people who live in these communities that you represent? >> these are people from all kinds of different socioeconomic backgrounds. >> we have a huge working class population here, small business owners that have these vibrant and creative kind of. things to

offer to the community. we have a huge african american population in altadena. they came here from the 20s and 30s, from the jim crow south, and they faced redlining elsewhere. but altadena opened its doors, so they came and they built churches and organizations, and they are very, very active in this community. so yes, it's very diverse, very creative and very community oriented. >> before i let you go, and i know you have so much to do in your community. governor newsom expressed concern this weekend that president elect trump could withhold funding from california when he gets back into office. this is going to be a long recovery, as you know well, do you share that concern? >> i have concerns about this because of the statements that i've seen trump make about

california, but i am truly hoping that he will be open and supportive of recovery in these areas. >> you know, wildfires don't have a political affiliation. they don't have a political party. and so many people have been devastated here. and it will be a long and hard road to recovery. we know that they desperately need help. they need hope for the future. they are shell shocked right now and numb, but we need to hold our hands open and make sure that they can get on that path to recovery. congressman, by the way, i am inviting trump and speaker johnson to come and witness the destruction themselves. >> they certainly should. >> they certainly should. congresswoman so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants?

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be back here tomorrow night at 8 p.m. eastern. for now, stay right where you are because there's much more news coming up on msnbc. >> a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone. to alex witt reports. we begin with the breaking news on the catastrophic wildfires raging in los angeles today, a critical day for fire crews who have made some progress against the area's two biggest