academics or anything like that. it was essentially to get children off of their lands, away from their communities, so they could essentially turn them into mainstream americans. they wanted to get every single native person off of their land so that they could take their land, essentially. and that was really one of the ways they did that. >> it is a horrific history. it is a part of american history. it is not taught enough in schools, but we will not allow the people and the people who's who claim their legacy to forget it. secretary deb haaland, thank you for all that you've done for this country. and thank you for being here with us tonight. and thank you. cheers. and that is tonight's reidout hears inside with jen psaki starts now. >> okay, so just one week from

today there will be a transfer of power in this country. and right now there is a lot going on here in the united states and also across the world that will all be in the hands of the next administration. >> this time next week, that's how a transfer of power works happens in california. firefighters are continuing to fight the flames that have leveled parts of los angeles. more than 90,000 people remain under evacuation orders. more than 12,000 structures have been destroyed, and at least 24 people have been killed. the national weather service is warning the coming days could become particularly dangerous, as powerful winds are set to pick up and cause critical fire conditions, which could potentially set back some of the progress that has been made to date. and even if the fire is contained in the next seven days, the road to recovery after that is going to take years. in other words, most of it is going to fall into the lap of the trump administration, and there is real concern about whether or not they will give california

the aid that it desperately needs. trump himself has threatened to withhold aid in the past. the governor of california has expressed concern that he might follow through on that threat. and then just today, house speaker mike johnson said he thinks there could be there should be conditions on that aid. that is not how it typically works, by the way, with this type of aid. so there are very big, very real questions about what happens to california in just seven days. and then there's the matter of the conditions that led to the worst wildfires in american history, and that will lead to more wildfires in the future. here's what president biden had to say about that during his final foreign policy speech earlier today. >> i know some incoming administration, some in the incoming administration are skeptical about the need for clean energy. they don't even believe climate change is real. i think they come from a different century. they're wrong. they are dead wrong.

>> presidents, right? and that's scary. i mean, the president elect and the people around him have been quick to blame anything but climate change. there are also questions about what happens next on the world stage, where we could be on the brink of a long awaited cease fire and hostage deal between israel and hamas. here's what president biden had to say about that earlier today in his speech on the war between israel and hamas. >> we're in the brink of a proposal that i laid out in detail months ago, finally coming to fruition. i have learned from many years of public service to never, never, never, ever give up. >> they have seven days left, though. what if the deal is not done in the next week? what if trump's unwillingness to put in place any restrictions on prime minister netanyahu prevents it from moving forward? where does that leave the hostages who have been held for over a year? where does it leave the people of gaza

whose lives have been destroyed? then there's the war in ukraine, which is still raging after nearly three years. president biden had this to say. >> today. we help ukrainians stop putin. and now, nearly three years later, putin has failed to achieve any of his strategic objectives. he has failed thus far to subjugate ukraine, fail to break the break the unity of nato, and fail to make large territorial gains. but there's more to do. we can't walk away. >> but what happens if the united states does walk away? i mean, again, in just seven days, there will be a different president in charge, one who looks at this war very differently. he will have different national security advisers and new chief of staff. there will be a transfer of power. and that process overall is nothing new. i mean, this has happened every time a new president has been sworn in since 1801, including between parties. and typically it follows a bit of an unofficial playbook because international crises, economic crises, natural

disasters, those things don't just pause when the white house changes hands. policy may change. of course, personnel may change, but the fires don't stop and the crises grind on. that was true in 2008, when barack obama was elected, and the country and the world was in the middle of a global financial crisis. i worked on that presidential transition and in that white house, and there were daily meetings and briefings and calls between incoming and outgoing officials who were overseeing the crisis throughout, from the moment president obama was elected. sure, there were differences of policy views, but there were also a shared interest and commitment to preventing the economy and the markets from collapsing. and this was done between. remember, an incoming president, barack obama, who basically won the democratic primary by running against the war that the outgoing president, george w bush, had started. but the bush team still open their doors. they still offered assistance and expertise and briefings. and that all became a

model for how president obama asked all of us to handle the incoming trump team in 2016, when i was still working for him. i mean, it wasn't easy. they didn't follow the unofficial playbook. they didn't seek the briefing book. they didn't seek expertise. and lord knows, when it came time for them to leave the building four years later, they lit a match to the time honored tradition of a peaceful transfer of power. but that's in the past. that all leads us to today. and yes, i fully expect i showed you that until the moment the biden team leaves, every person speaking on the record from the current administration will say they're having productive and constructive conversations with the incoming team, and we should hope that they are all of us. and they say that because they hope they are, too. but there are some signs that things are not going exactly as they should. like this report today from the associated press revealing that trump's incoming national security team is questioning career civil servants about who they voted for in the election and whether they made social media posts

considered incriminating by trump's team. i mean, let me tell you, these people are not political wonks. they are experts on policy. they've served republican and democratic presidents, some of them for decades. they know the ins and outs of negotiations and crises, both global and domestic. they are the brains that make continuity through a crisis possible. so that's a bit of a warning sign to me that this transition is not going exactly the way it should. and we only have a week left here. and but the way it has gone for hundreds of years, and that should be a bit alarming. see, there can be effective transitions between political parties, even in times of crisis. we've seen it many times before, but this time in just seven days, with fires raging here at home, wars still raging across across the globe, we should all prepare ourselves that this could be something quite different. joining me now is white house national security adviser jake sullivan. hi, jake. you have a week to go. the president gave a huge speech today, which we just talked

about. and i have a lot i want to ask you about, but i actually want to start with the wildfires in california because it's on the minds of so many people watching right now. and you know very well what the federal government can do to help communities during natural disasters. and there's been a couple of things that have happened over the past couple of days. i mean, today, house speaker mike johnson suggested additional aid might have to come with certain conditions, which is not how it normally works. governor gavin newsom has expressed concern that president elect trump could decide to withhold aid altogether. we don't know what's going to happen here. i'm not asking you to predict that. but you know the impact of the federal government's help. what would it mean for the people of california if they lose the support of the federal government in the next couple of weeks, and even in the recovery after that? >> well, it's a great question, jen. you know, the president has had to deal over the last four years with many different kinds of natural disasters in the united states. in every part of this country in the southeast, the southwest, the midwest, the northeast, and now in california. and he's abided by a

very simple principle, which is this is not about red states and blue states. it's not about republican and democrat. these are all americans who are struggling and suffering in the face of these wildfires, and they deserve the support and the help of the federal government and the aid that is flowing to ensure that these fires get fought effectively, that homes get saved, that communities get rebuilt. that's the same kind of aid that has gone to hurricanes and north carolina and florida and the wildfires in idaho and arizona. and so we really shouldn't play politics with this, and we certainly shouldn't play games with it. this aid has got to flow. and president biden, as we speak, is preparing for another briefing in the building behind me with his experts on this issue, because day in and day out, since these wildfires started, this has been his primary focus. he canceled the trip to stay here to work on this, and he's going to fight every day. he is president. and as you say, that's less than a week now to make sure the aid goes where it belongs. >> i wanted to also talk, of course, about the hostage deal

and the potential for a hostage deal and cease fire deal in gaza. the president said today it's on the brink. secretary blinken said you're closer than you've ever been. you talked about it in the briefing room. what's it going to take to get over the finish line? what should people understand about the status? >> look, i would describe us as being inside the one yard line at this point, and that makes you so achingly close to being in the end zone. but of course, as you know well, you can be inside the one yard line, the game can end and you end up without the touchdown. so we're so close but not quite there. what's it going to take to push it through basic will, particularly on the part of hamas to say, yes, we are at a point now, today, right now, where the negotiators in qatar are reporting back to the president and me here to say israel is basically there on a deal on the table that can work. and now it's up to hamas to come in and say, yes, there's reason to believe that they may lean forward to do so, but i'm not going to take any kind of

celebration or victory lap unless and until they actually do. and instead we're just going to work every last minute of every last day to see if we can get this done. >> it's hour by hour, as you know better than anyone, and everybody watching should understand. now is also the moment. i know you're probably exhausted, but also reflecting a bit on the last couple of years and looking back. i mean, as we look over a year into this war, there's often this expectation that the united states can control foreign leaders or control their actions. that's not how negotiations or global power works. but do you think that you or the president or others in the administration may have overestimated the sway or power you had over prime minister netanyahu early on to change his behavior or pull it back to something that was not as aggressive in gaza? >> look, actually, what i think is that a lot of the commentary put this whole question into very transactional terms. why don't you just cut off weapons

and that'll make israel do what we want them to do. from our perspective, israel was not just being attacked by hamas, it was being attacked by hezbollah. it was being attacked by the houthis. it was being attacked by the shia militia groups in iraq and syria, and it was being attacked by iran itself. so the notion that we would stop military assistance to a friend under assault from all those different fronts was not something that sat well with the president, but he did take the very strong view that while we were going to stand up for israel's defense and security, we also were going to speak out on principle, on protecting the basic rights and lives of civilians in gaza. and that meant pushing israel when we felt they went too far. it meant pushing for more humanitarian assistance. and we do believe that our interventions with respect to the flow of humanitarian assistance into gaza did save lives and did stave off the famine that was warned about at multiple points over the course of the past 14 months. too many civilians have

died. too many palestinians have gone through hell. i acknowledge all of that. but i believe that the united states has taken a clear position over the course of the past 14 months in support of the defense of israel and in working to try to minimize civilian harm and maximize humanitarian assistance in gaza. >> so, jake, there's only seven days left of the administration. you guys are very close, it seems, but you never know. that's very hard to get done in that period of time. if this doesn't happen in the next week, is it dead? i mean, the next president has a very different view of the type of power or any limitations on power netanyahu should have. >> it's a really good question. what i found over the last 7 or 8 months that we've really been bearing down on the cease fire proposal that president biden put forward, is that we've gotten close, and then it hasn't worked out. and then there's been a period where the two parties have really pulled away from one another. and so there's been this rhythm of get close, it falls apart, then go get far

apart. and my fear is that if this does not happen in just the next few days, there will be a period where the two parties move away from one another and where the fighting continues unabated without a real opportunity to bring this home. so now is the moment, and that is a big part of the case that we are making in the room in qatar as we speak. brett mcgurk, the president's top middle east adviser, has been camped out there for the last eight days. i'm on speed dial with him every few hours, and our hope is that we can actually bring this across the finish line in the coming hours or days. >> one of the key parts of the effort to have continuity of government and dealing with crisis or continuing priorities are the career national security officials who serve across administrations. and today, you were asked about a report in the associated press about the trump team questioning civil servants at the nsc about who they voted for in the 2024 election. i know you said you've not heard that from anyone on the incoming team, but let me ask you a different way. i mean, why would you never ask a career national security official who they voted

for? >> what's important for your viewers to understand that the national security council staff has a very, very small number of political appointees selected by the president. the overwhelming majority of people who work for the national security council are career professionals who come over for a limited time, a year or two years from the defense department or the intelligence community, or the state department or the department of homeland security, for that matter. these are professionals who do not have allegiance to party. they have allegiance only to country. they are the hardest working, most effective, most capable people. we have in the us government, in the national security enterprise, and they keep this country strong and secure. and so asking them whether or not they support this party or that party misses the very basic point, that they're not here to do politics, they're here to do the people's work. they swear an oath to the constitution. and i can tell you every day i work with these folks, they live up to that. and many of them have

said, we're very happy to keep working for the next president, because for them, it is about the mission on behalf of the country. and i hope that the incoming team sees that. >> it's such an important point. you and i both had the honor of working at the state department. i have no idea what party affiliation most people have there. they worked through decades of presidents from different parties. it's such an important part of how our government works. jake sullivan, thank you so much. you have a week to go. we'll be waiting for any details on the cease fire deal. thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. >> thanks for having me. >> after the break, we're going to talk about how judge aileen cannon cleared the way for the justice department to release jack smith's report on donald trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election. congressman dan goldman is standing by, and he goldman is standing by, and he joins me in just my moderate to severe crohn's disease... ...and my ulcerative colitis symptoms... ...kept me... ...out of the picture. now... ...there's skyrizi. ♪i've got places to go...♪ ♪...and i'm feeling free♪ ♪control of my symptoms means everything...♪

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course, brought two criminal cases against trump, one over a highly classified documents he stashed at mar a lago and another over his attempts to interfere in the 2020 election. now, as you well know, neither of those cases made it to trial thanks to some well-timed interventions by trump's allies in the judiciary, including judge aileen cannon, who oversaw that classified documents case as well. cannon was appointed by trump himself in the waning days of his first term, and at practically every turn, she has tied herself into knots to return the favor. cannon ultimately dropped the documents case using some pretty flimsy reasoning, but she wasn't done there. she then took it upon herself to block jack smith's office from making its report on either case public, even though, of course, cannon had nothing to do with the january 6th trial. the judge then took things a step further and said even if her ruling was overturned, the report still couldn't be made public until at least three days later. judge cannon was indeed overruled by the 11th circuit court of appeals. the court said that the january 6th portion of the report can be made public,

and today cannon herself cleared the way for that to happen. we are now waiting to see if the 11th circuit will also overturn her three day waiting period. if so, we could see the report any minute. we will let you know if we see it. if not, the deadline will expire at midnight tonight, at which point trump's team may try another last minute hail mary to block the release. we'll see. but we could very well see that report sooner rather than later. the other one is another question. never a dull moment. joining me now is democratic congressman dan goldman of new york. he served as lead counsel in the first impeachment of donald trump. okay, so let me start here. i mean, it says some this report that there's a midnight deadline. let's start there for that january 6th report. may people may feel like it's no big deal. the cases were dropped. we know a lot. trump's returning to the white house in seven days. what do you think the american people could learn from that report? >> well, i think we're going to learn in much more depth the degree to which donald trump and those around him were involved in the overturning or the effort

to overturn the election. >> and i think we probably will get more color and more detail. but for the most part, i think the story will likely remain the same. >> there's been the indictment is very detailed. >> there's been a lot of writing and filing court filings about this case. >> so i'm not sure there's going to be anything earth shattering in that report, but it will be the most thorough and detailed recitation of what donald trump did to try to overturn the election in 2020, try to undermine our democracy and try to stop the peaceful transfer of power so we could. >> it's possible we could see in the next couple hours, but otherwise we could see it at 1201 in the middle of the night if the justice department wanted. right. >> yeah. >> as of midnight, the they're free to release it. >> so we'll be remains to be seen if they'll do it at 1201, if they'll do it tomorrow morning. >> but i think it's it'll come out very soon. >> so let's talk about the other

report on classified documents because that one's blocked. it doesn't seem like is there any legal path for that to get unblocked in the next seven days? >> well, it would take some aggressive maneuvering from the department of justice. >> but judge cannon, in her order today, once again just issued a completely lawless opinion. >> she actually said that congress has no interest in the classified documents case. >> now, let's be clear. this is a co-equal branch of government. donald trump was accused in the indictment of retaining national security information, classified documents, willfully retaining and concealing it. in other court filings, the department of justice has said that the evidence will show why he did that and what he was going to do with that. so are you telling me that congress, as a co-equal branch that oversees the executive branch, has no interest in whether the incoming commander in chief was ready,

willing and able to sell state secrets? it is absolutely preposterous, and it is just a continuing effort by judge cannon to bastardize her position on the court to undermine the credibility of the entire judiciary in her political defense of donald trump. it's inexcusable and indefensible. and at this point, i think the department of justice needs to take a real look at whatever options are available to be able to get this report out, because even though he may have escaped accountability under our criminal system because he won the election in november, he does not escape accountability to the american people for what his conduct was. every single special counsel report in recent years has been publicly released. in fact, the republicans insisted not only that the her report had been about biden is was released,

insisted on getting the transcript of his interview. they held merrick garland in contempt because they he wouldn't turn over the recording of the same interview that they had the transcript of. so clearly the republicans also agree that this is in the public interest. and so i think the department of justice needs to take a very close look at whatever they can do to make sure that this report is released before next monday. >> i mean, do you think they have the legal levers to do it in seven days? >> well, look, i think in my mind, the only way to do it is to dismiss the two cases against the co-defendants, which donald trump is going to do anyway. i mean, he's going to do it immediately because that case against the co-defendants is all about trump. there's no chance that he is going to let that case go forward, either by pardoning it or just ordering his attorney general to dismiss those cases. so it's going to get dismissed anyway. the reason judge cannon used in order to prevent it from being released

is that there may be prejudice against these charged defendants, who are trump's lackeys and accomplices, who helped him obstruct and conceal the documents. but if that case goes away, then there's nothing that justification off the table. it could take the justification. i'm sure judge cannon will try to find some other reason, and we don't have a lot of time, and it will likely have to be appealed. but that is one pathway that may be fruitful. >> congressman dan goldman, never a dull moment in the legal world or the world of congress. thank you so much for joining me here on set, i appreciate it. thanks for having me. coming up, we're going to talk about pete hegseth. he's preparing for what is expected to be an explosive confirmation hearing tomorrow. no doubt about that. and tonight we're getting new reporting about what his fbi background check does not include. the new yorker's jane mayer is responsible for some bombshell reporting. some of the best reporting out there about pete reporting out there about pete hegseth. and she joins me power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier.

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kit.com. physicians mutual, physicians mutual. >> so tomorrow morning, the confirmation hearings begin, including the senate armed services committee's confirmation hearing for pete hegseth, who is, of course, donald trump's pick to lead the department of defense. and buckle up, everyone, it is sure to be one of the most contentious of all the confirmation hearings for trump's choices for his new administration. i mean, just consider some of the things we already know about hegseth, just

from excellent public reporting. we know about his alleged sexual assault of a woman at a republican conference in 2017, where a woman told police hegseth took her phone and blocked her from leaving his hotel room. he paid the woman an undisclosed sum as part of a settlement. he says the incident was consensual and no charges were filed. then there was a bombshell report from jane mayer in the new yorker about hexo's managerial record and reported alcohol abuse. as mayor detailed in her piece a trail of documents corroborated by the accounts of former colleagues, indicates that hegseth was forced to step down by both of the two nonprofit advocacy groups that he ran, veterans for freedom and concerned veterans for america, in the face of serious allegations of financial management, sexual impropriety, and personal misconduct. mayor also reported that a previously undisclosed whistleblower report on his tenure as the president of concerned veterans for america described him as being repeatedly intoxicated while acting in his official capacity

to the point of needing to be carried carried out of the organization's events. she also reported about his inability to manage these relatively small organizations. as the head of the nonprofit group veterans for freedom, mayer reported that hegseth racked up over $430,000 in unpaid bills, in addition to as much as $75,000 in credit card debt. and yet, nbc news reports that as of friday, key leaders who worked at both of those veterans organizations had not been contacted by the fbi as a part of hegseth background check. and just in the last couple of hours, three sources confirmed to nbc that his fbi background check also does not include interviews with his ex-wives or with the woman who accused him of sexual assault in 2017. to state the obvious, that does not sound like a particularly thorough and thorough background check for the person who is going to lead the defense department, potentially. joining me now is the author of that barnburner of

a story, jane mayer. she is the award winning chief washington correspondent for the new yorker. jane, it's great to see you. i read your piece again today. it is the best prep for preparing to cover and watch these hearings. and i wanted to just ask you about some of this reporting, because you've gone more in depth, it seems, than perhaps the fbi. so one of the leaders of the senate armed services committee received an fbi background check on hegseth late friday. but as recently as that afternoon, former key leaders of the two veterans organizations you talk about in your piece that hegseth ran said they had not been contacted by the fbi for the checks. i mean, you have obviously covered him extensively, but you've covered confirmation hearings extensively and national security officials extensively. does that surprise you? and what could they have learned if they'd contacted them? >> well, thanks so much. >> yes, i can confirm what your reporting is, too, which is that the fbi, it appears in its background check, skipped most

of the key sources that might have really shed light on pete hegseth background. and you have to. has this happened before? it has happened. i think anybody who watched the kavanaugh hearings will remember. there was sort of a similar situation there. and in both cases, the fbi has decided for these background checks to regard the administration, that is the trump administration. in both cases, the incoming one now, as the client and the transition for trump basically directed the background investigation. and so i guess, is it surprising? >> i mean, basically it seems that they've done something of a whitewash. >> and the senators will not be able to hear from a number of key sources. >> so let me ask you a little bit more about that, because thank you for your an excellent reporter. thank you for confirming this reporting. it sounds like the veterans

organizations, i was also going to ask you about what i just mentioned about the nbc news is reporting tonight that says background check also does not include interviews with his ex-wives or with the women who accused him of sexual assault in 2017. do you know from your reporting if the fbi has contacted them or reached out to them at all? >> we have a forthcoming story on this. it i hope it will be out very soon. but but we have much the same information that the that the, the woman who filed a rape claim against pete hegseth was not, as far as i've been able to determine, even interviewed by the fbi. not only that, but but many of these, i mean, that set aside the fbi report, many of these potential witnesses reached out to try through intermediaries to try to speak to republican senators whose votes are the most crucial here, because, you know, the democrats are likely to vote

against hegseth. but but they tried to reach out to some of the republican senators, and the republican senators have declined to meet with with several of these key sources themselves. so, you know, where they kept in the dark, or did they want to be in the dark? you have to wonder that that is pretty significant. >> i just want to pause on what you just said for a moment. we'll all be watching for your story. but these women tell you a lot about the character of a person who is about to potentially serve as the secretary of defense. i think we'll learn. maybe we'll learn more from your reporting. if they were contacted, if they were willing, we'll all wait for it. let me ask you something else. there has been a huge push by trump and his allies to, of course, get confirmed. this is this was a bit of a turnaround after senator ernst gave what wasn't a satisfactory answer to them. in an answer to a question in the hallway, the new york times is reporting that conservative organizations are targeting republican senators, saying that they will pay a

price if they do not back the president elect's choice for defense secretary. and we've we've seen a range of reporting on this. you've covered a lot of nomination processes. have you ever seen this aggressive and kind of threatening of a of a push by an administration? >> i mean, i think it's unprecedented in hardball playing for a cabinet nominee. >> i mean, the closest that we've seen to anything like this are in the most contentious supreme court nomination fights. but, but, but i've never seen anything like this for just a member of the cabinet. but then again, i've also never seen a nominee for secretary of defense that has a history. anything like pete hegseth. >> so it's a it's an incredibly abnormal situation. >> and the amount of money and the amount, the sort of the intensity of the threats and

intimidation that are being brought down on anyone who might stand in the way of his confirmation is, is, is really not like anything. it's i think it's unparalleled for a cabinet confirmation fight. >> jane mayer, thank you so much. we'll let you get back to finalizing your reporting. everybody will look out for it before the hearing tomorrow. i appreciate you joining us. and coming up, the billionaire class cozying up to donald trump. and one of the big casualties is america's information space. i'll explain what i mean by that i'll explain what i mean by that when we if you're living with dry amd, you may be at risk for developing geographic atrophy, or ga. ga can be unpredictable—and progress rapidly—leading to irreversible vision loss. now there's something you can do to... ♪ ( slow. it. down.) ♪ ♪ ( get it goin' slower.)♪ ask your doctor about izervay. ♪ (i. zer. vay.) ♪ ♪ ( gets ga goin' slower.) ♪ izervay is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection or active

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approved. ready in two minutes. eat smart with factor. >> one of the things that will be different about donald trump's second term. one of them is the group of billionaire tech bros coalescing around him. the richest man in the world, elon musk, enthusiastically supported and campaigned for trump during the final months of last year's election, and spent a quarter of $1 billion to help him win. now, since trump has been elected, tech companies like meta and amazon and individual ceos have each given $1 million to trump's inaugural fund. we should note that these companies did not give exactly that kind of money to trump's first inaugural fund, and they definitely did not give that kind of money to biden's, this kind of just blatant cozying up just isn't normal. it shouldn't be any mystery. why is the thing i mean bound to trump potentially protects them and may even benefit them financially. and one of the clear casualties of this

capitulation, this trade off of bowing to trump in exchange for influence, is our information space. i mean, since buying the social media site formerly known as twitter in 2022, musk has overhauled its systems, cutting back its content moderation, increasing his own personal reach and opening the platform to a new flood of conspiracy theories and far right fringe ideas that were once reserved for the far corners of the internet. musk has repeatedly claimed to have cultivated all of this in the name of free speech, and mark zuckerberg used a similar rationale in changing his company's content moderation moderation policies. just last week, he announced he would end meta's fact checking program in favor of a community note style similar to musk's platform, citing a shifting political and social landscape and a desire to embrace free speech. now, in addition to abandoning fact checking in favor of community notes, meta has also relaxed its hate speech rules. as axios reported, one of the changes included removing a rule that

had prohibited users from describing entire groups of people as filth. and it isn't just social media moguls revising their practices. just before this past election, the washington post editorial board ended its decades long custom of endorsing a presidential candidate. the paper's owner, jeff bezos, defended the decision, saying that presidential endorsements create the perception of bias. and he said, you can see my wealth and business interests as a bulwark against intimidation, or you can see them as a web of conflicting interests. only my own principles can tip the balance from one to the other. i assure you that my views here are, in fact, principled. i think that actually translates to trust me, i'm a billionaire. got me a little suspicious on that one. it's hard to believe that there aren't conflicts of interest at play here. of course there are when there is so much growing evidence to the contrary that there aren't so much that they are doing to appease trump, and so much that this small class of billionaires so clearly stands to gain. jennifer rubin was a

long time columnist for the washington post, very popular one. she resigned from the paper today. norm eisen was the white house ethics czar during the obama administration. today, they announced they are launching a new media company, launching a new media company, awhen you really need to sleep. you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. they get it. they know how it works. and most importantly, it works for them. i don't have any anxiety about money anymore. i don't have to worry about a mortgage payment every month. it allowed me to live in my home and not have to make payments. if you're 62 or older and own your home, you could access a portion of your equity to improve your lifestyle. a reverse mortgage loan can eliminate your monthly mortgage payments and put tax-free cash in your pocket. it was the best thing i've ever done. really? yes without a doubt.

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1-800-290-7477 now or visit us at mso fund.com. >> okay, here is part of what columnist jennifer rubin wrote today about her decision to resign from the washington post. quote, jeff bezos and his fellow billionaires accommodate and enable the most acute threat to american democracy donald trump. at a time when a vibrant free press is more essential than ever to our democracies survival. joining me now is jennifer rubin. also with us is former white house ethics czar norm eisen. today, jen and norm announced they are launching the contrarian and independent media project they say will be unshackled by corporate interests. and anybody can sign up and subscribe today. so let me start with you, jen, because this was a big announcement. you've been at the post a long time. you love the institution.

i know, but some of what you said in here, i think spoke to what some of your colleagues have also felt. what drove you to leave the post? it's been a long time coming, but the central fact is we're at an inflection point in american democracy, and we need a free press that's going to stand up to authoritarianism, that's going to speak truth, and that is not going to equivocate and deal in a lot of false equivalencies. >> and unfortunately, the post under its current ownership has made very clear that they're in the business of accommodating, enabling, giving money to donald trump. >> can you only imagine katharine graham giving $1 million to richard nixon or lbj? >> i can't imagine it's that is fundamentally at odds with the mission and the purpose of a newspaper, which is to be fiercely independent, to be unshackled by other people's interests. >> and when you're in the business of balancing a billionaire's corporate interests that have nothing to do with the washington post and everything to do with his relationship with the incoming

president and the journalistic mission. >> that's a conflict of interest that is just insoluble. >> and so i couldn't be part of that. >> so you could have done a lot of things. you're a very popular columnist. i love norm, i've known him forever. but i mean, there's a bigger reason than working with norm to launching the contrarian. why? >> i think this is the moment when we need not only a defense of democracy, not only a defense of the rule of law, but we need to reach people that, frankly, mainstream media hasn't been reaching. we learned in the campaign there's a whole universe of americans who do not subscribe to the washington post and the new york times. >> they watch tick tock, they watch podcasts, they listen to all kinds of social media. >> we're going to present that to because we want that audience. they may come in, we're going to have cooking shows, we're going to have pets. we're going to have film reviews. >> they may come for that and stay for some democracy. and that's what we want. >> we have to meet people where they are and invite them into the democracy party. >> so in your video announcement

today, everybody should watch. you talked about how democracy and defense of it and jen just talked about is core at that the core of what you want to talk about in the election? it's such an important issue. democracy fighting fascism, fascism. but in the election, the voters decided that cost of living, that other issues were more important to them. that doesn't mean that's necessarily how it should be. but how do you expand the scope of people who care about democracy and the threat of fascism, as jen just said, is it bringing them in with cooking shows and hopefully they'll read the democracy post? >> we have some of the best at law and politics who are going to be columnists, and we're going to appear on our youtube channel, our podcasts, our social media. >> but we also brought in the andy borowitz of the world. he's going to do a humor column. >> our cooking column will be marissa rothkopf secret life of cookies, very popular substack,

but she's going to sprinkle in a little bit of democracy. >> democracy spice in that, and we're going to do the same thing. we're reaching to the young generation with olivia giuliani, the tiktok politics sensation. >> so we're crossing party lines, we're crossing age groups. >> we're crossing topics. look, as you know, we were white house colleagues together. and then i went off to the czech republic, where i got to be friends with vaclav havel. >> he told me he was a leader of the dissident movement. he said, forget the lawyers, forget the politicians. >> you need playwrights, you need artists, you need creative people. >> the right has been very good at doing this, so we hope to be a part of bringing a cultural and a legal and political voice to the fight for democracy in these perilous times. >> you both have very interesting expertise. a legal eagle, an expert on many, many things, including foreign policy and many other things. i just

talked about the risk of the richest tech billionaires basically having power over the government. i mean, in other countries it's called an oligarchy. maybe we should call it that here, but we talk about that broadly. tell me what you're watching for and i'll ask you this too. what are you watching for specifically as it relates to those abuses? >> one of the classic issues in autocracies is corruption. >> the oligarchs support a political candidate, and then that political candidate turns around and does favors. i don't think doge, for example, elon musk's project is going to benefit the american people. >> i'm watching to see, will that become a way that the money, the benefits that should belong to the american people are going to be funneled to this class of oligarchs, turning them into kleptocrats? that's what's even worse than an oligarch. >> okay, we only have about 30s left. but you're a pro. what's

the one thing you're watching for in this? >> i'm watching for them to. instead of representing and expanding the pie, reaching out to those voters who they promised to lower the cost of eggs, to lower the cost of milk, that they're going to start robbing those people to give tax cuts to the billionaires, they are going to start cutting social security, medicare. they're going to start raising their taxes in the form of tariffs. >> and the billionaires will get exemptions, but the regular people will pay the tariffs. >> that's what i'm going to do. all things i hope you write about and people can find more about if they subscribe to the contrarian. thank you both. norm. jen, i know you've had a big day, so thank you for ending big day, so thank you for ending ywhen you really need to sleep.g you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. why choose a sleep number smart bed? i need help with her snoring. sleep number does that.

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>> nutrafol is life changing for me. >> get growing at nfl.com. >> the first 100 days it's a critical time for our country. and rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> now is the time. so we're going to do it. >> settle in the rachel maddow show five nights a week, beginning next monday. >> each week on my podcast, i'm joined by uniquely qualified

guests who help me take a big picture look at the issues, like representative jasmine crockett, late night host seth meyers, former attorney general eric holder, and many more. >> why is this happening? >> listen now. >> stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the msnbc daily newsletter. get the best of msnbc all in one place. sign up for msnbc daily@msnbc.com. >> okay, lots to look forward to confirmation hearings tomorrow. but that does it for me tonight. the rachel maddow show starts right now. hey, rachel. hey, rachel. >> hey, jen. thank you, my friend. no sleeping between now and april, okay? >> none. and we'll be seeing more of you. so no sleeping for you either, i guess. >> indeed. i never sleep anyway, so it's just going to be. i'm just going to be getting more and more haggard on television instead of it just happening offline in my regular life. >> fair. text me at 3 a.m. and we can be haggard together. >> all right. >> thank you, my friend. and thanks to you