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remarkable times. we are grateful. the beat with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. hi, nicole. >> we have a date with this report, so i'm going to get into it and see you soon. >> i'm going to get up and watch. >> okay. >> our thanks to nicolle wallace, as always for starting us off here. >> welcome to the beat. >> i'm ari melber. our top story is the new release of this literal final chapter in the special counsel, jack smith's january 6th coup probe. >> smith's 137 page report, released today on the, quote,

efforts to interfere with the lawful transfer of power following that 2020 election. >> this smith report follows the precedent of the mueller report, a major legal document which recounts a crime spree by trump allies who faced a legal reckoning. like that report, this new one matters today. in contrast to that report, however, the smith report comes after donald trump's recent reelection and there are legal rules ending the prosecution that the former defendant trump faced. so we begin right there on that point, the most striking assertion in this brand new report, which came in the conclusion as the final sentence of this new smith report today, is the formal statement that smith had enough evidence to convict trump at trial. that is a key takeaway, and i'm going to go through several takeaways with you right now. we encourage you to read excerpts or the whole report. but right now i've got the key parts. the report refers to the rule against

prosecuting a sitting president. everyone knew that would kick in if the defendant, donald trump, won. and so the report states. but for mr. trump's election, the admissible evidence was sufficient to obtain a conviction at trial, a striking conclusion from a respected prosecutor backed by the doj. it reinforces just how close trump came to that trial, which may have led to conviction. while, as always, we responsibly note that as a defendant, trump, the former defendant, was legally presumed innocent. smith made precedent with the first federal indictment of an ex-president. today, he stands by it with a new precedent about that now former defendant turned president elect. so i can tell you, this report does not offer one sweeping story, unlike, say, the original coup indictment of former defendant trump. it's not supposed to. and i'll explain it very clearly. under law, every special counsel writes a final

report explaining their decisions to charge or not through this process and to congress. and so today, we're learning some new things about the inner workings of smith's long secret, secretive, private, confidential, whatever word you want to use, an investigation that we didn't see into very much. that includes legal factors about trump's lies and deceit, which d.o.j. assessed in how it pursued and charged him, finding that trump had a corrupt purpose to, quote, ensure no one other than himself was certified as the president. even though biden won. and the report cites evidence that trump had these admissions he knew he'd lost, and prosecutors were ready to show jurors how trump was even declaring victory before the actual results came in. days later, we were getting ready to win this election. >> frankly, we did win this election. we did not. >> as far as i'm concerned, we already have won it. >> false. >> and that was incriminating.

declaring a false win before the votes were even counted. all. but that alone isn't a crime. the report explains how that decision, which you just heard, is one part, one element of what prosecutors must prove and that they state in the report it animated these deceptive means and independently criminal means later taken in trump's failed bid to steal the election, which infamously took the plot right into congress on january 6th, trying even to give a fraudulent elector slate to mike pence. and that's before any of those trump allies stormed the capitol. and the horrors we saw afterward. now, that was bad. it was mostly secret at the time that elector fraud, they were trying to kick over to pence, but the report shines a light on the question legally, how bad was it? what if you listened to people who say that was more symbolic fight to the end? that it was, quote, hardball politics? or was it more like blatant ballot stuffing, the kind depicted in

political cartoons like this which decry illegal vote stealing by any party? this from an 1880s harper's magazine? or here's a modern political cartoon that imagined threats at the literal ballot generated by i, by the way. so the canvas evolves. but these type of election threats endure. and this is news tonight, because i have a new answer from jack smith himself, noting that while they were not in the back room altering the vote tallies or stuffing falsified ballots into the ballot boxes like those proverbial cartoons i showed you, quote, trump and the coconspirators nonetheless sought the same result to cast aside legitimate votes, depriving citizens of their right to vote and have their votes counted. jack smith's prosecutors saying this was criminal ballot stuffing just on an even larger scale. and so that right there are already just a few highlights. if you're

counting, spend just about five minutes. and that's a lot of material that we are learning about. how jack smith and his team approached this, things we didn't know, things we would have loved to know from a journalistic or legal sense. even just months ago. and then there are the lawyers. donald trump has long demanded that he wants to find his own roy cohn in government. that's quite a claim, because the infamously discredited, disbarred lawyer has earned a place in legal histories about how not to practice law, how not to go to court. today's report adds more incriminating material against two of trump's lawyers in this whole matter, and they have faced discipline not unlike roy cohn. and they're referred to as unindicted coconspirators giuliani and eastman and both facing bar discipline civil remedies over these related efforts from trying to steal the race. now, the report is not designed and is not really trying to develop a new case on them. but remember i mentioned

how the law requires that smith any special counsel explain some of the approaches that got them here. and so today that actually required more material on those two discredited lawyers, to say the least, because of trump's effort to hide alleged crimes behind them. so that's like the roy cohn move i'm mentioning. and this came up. remember all the way back in the mueller report when another trump lawyer, michael cohen, had to pay and go to prison for now convicted crimes that were determined on trump's behalf. and it was farmed out to a different office. and you might remember some of that history. fast forward to now, and smith's report explains why prosecutors were ready to defeat donald trump's attempted lawyer or counsel defense, noting smith and the doj thought they would beat any advice of counsel defense because these kind of so-called lawyers were actually acting as accomplices to the crime and to support that, the report notes. giuliani backing the original plot to declare

victory before there was a winner called and then presenting knowingly false claims to state legislatures. >> it's a highly inaccurate machine. >> what would that suggest? phantom votes. >> there's overwhelming proof of fraud. >> you don't have to be a genius to figure out that those votes are not legitimate votes. >> the report poses similar problems for john eastman, showing that he was, quote, instrumental in the elector fraud, as even eastman admitted the plans violated federal law. now, this matters because it draws the line against future lawyers who might try these claims. even if you look at this and say, gosh, what if donald trump got away with it? well, these folks didn't. giuliani himself bankrupt over related litigation. courts are moving towards seizing his money and cars to pay and give them to his defamed election workers. smith never did interviews. his office had few known leaks. he spoke through his work and some brief announcements for the

indictments. today's report, though, features him speaking in a way we've rarely heard. he rebuts the maga attacks that claimed this was some sort of politicized witch hunt. smith, rebutting claims that he took orders from biden as, in a word, laughable. all right. as another wordsmith, nas might say, it's comedy. it's hilarious. look in the mirror. tell me the times ain't the scariest point being. it may be laughable, but it is not funny when the stakes are this high and the times this intense. so we've just reported out the especially key points from this new report. at over 130 pages, we've got actually more on the rest of this program with andrew weissmann and david kelly coming up. but before i bring those experienced prosecutors in, i want to try to tie this together, especially if you're at home going, all right, after all this, this is what we got. and i guess trump got away. and the anchorman, ari, is telling me details. but what's

the point of all this? where are we landing? and i will do my level best to tell you the facts and the evidence. totally separate from what people, myself included, might think in opinion about it. let's go to the evidence. here's what you need to know. this probe is now closed. it's federal indictments of those several plots that we have tracked with regard to former defendant trump are now formally dismissed. we've shown you this chart over the years. we legally update it now with this news. that's an outcome that smith certainly views as incomplete. given a plan to bring the case to trial, where he says he had the evidence to convict trump, that's where we are. the federal january 6th coup probe is over with this report today. and to hear jack smith tell it, they cracked the case. they found the guy. they know who they say did it, even though, as i mentioned, legally,

he's presumed innocent. they say they know who did it. they got him. they indicted him. and according to smith, they were ready to give him his day in court until his lawyers, political allies and a supreme court he helped appoint delayed that day in court. that reckoning, that trial past an election that he then won, which kicked in the legal restrictions that were not a secret and not a conspiracy, quote unquote. they were something everyone knew about. and that's part of the ending. the related doj january 6th probe, which is the largest in u.s. history, has put many people behind bars. it has a strong record of legal accomplishment. some of them are hoping for donald trump to break them out of jail with pardons. many of them have served a chunk of their time. and then trump's own lawyers and aides, as you can see from a reckoning chart where we can barely fit all of the different consequences, including state cases that donald trump cannot and never has the power to pardon. they've been punished for their

involvement. from disbarment to convictions. prison time for two trump former aides who stonewalled the house jan six probe. the system may be a long way from full accountability, as always, depending on who defines it. but again, i said i'd show you the evidence. it is a very long way from no accountability for anyone involved, including the leaders, the lawyers who smith calls accomplices. we've seen careers and lives upended. and a warning, as smith wrote, would be for the next would be coconspirators to think twice before you end up like any of these individuals. so you take it all together. that's what's happening. you could hear almost through the pages of this report, the stern, fair judgment of jack smith and his team. if they are disappointed in the outcome, they are not putting

spin on the ball. there are other parts of the report i'm going to get to, including their explanation of why they didn't use the insurrection act on donald trump and the donald trump team's response, which includes, interestingly, a shout out to none other than bob mueller, which makes, you know, it's a funny kind of news day. but when you look at this all together, something is happening. it's not what jack smith wanted. he made that clear. it's not what a lot of other people think justice should require, but it is a heck of a long way from january 7th, when there had been no accountability for anyone, no reckoning for donald trump and his aides. and remember, no indictment of any former president ever in american history. now, our reporting tonight mentioned the mueller probe. the top mueller deputy andrew weissmann is here when andrew weissmann is here when we're back in just [restaurant noise] allison. [swooshing sound] introducing allison's plaque psoriasis. ♪♪

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ugh. stop waiting. start investing. e*trade ® from morgan stanley. when you really need to sleep. e*trade ® you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. >> a lead prosecutor for the mueller probe, andrew weissmann is here. we went through some of what we learned from this new report. your thoughts tonight. >> so i had a reaction to the beginning of the report. there is a four page sort of overview letter from jack smith that's quite moving and talks about his career, his service in state, federal and internationally. >> his deep respect for the people on his team, what they've been through, the harassment, the threats, all of that was

wonderful. it's all in writing. >> it's great that it's in writing, but in the same way that, like i do a podcast, you're doing a cable show, people take in their news in lots of different ways and, well, this is a youtube show, but we're also on cable. >> but sure. exactly. >> so either way, i wish that one lesson that i thought from the mueller investigation was that people take in their news in different ways, and just putting it in writing does not communicate it as well, including assessing credibility. >> he is a wonderful person. >> it would be great for people to have heard him deliver it in the same way. archibald cox well, let me draw you out. you're making the point, but very delicately. this is the letter you refer to, right on the justice department letterhead. for those who are into this kind of thing, you're suggesting it would be great for him to speak out, to have delivered that in a, in that

forum, in this, in that way, but also in another media to say, to have read it. >> archibald cox, who was the watergate prosecutor, gave a press conference to explain to the public why he was seeking supreme court review to get the watergate tapes. he could have just filed his brief in the supreme court and said, you know, it speaks for itself, right? >> but you get that out. and what is it? we just went through some of the key points. what is it that you think people need to understand given that the trial will not happen? well, i think part of it is he's been caricatured and it would be useful for people to be able to hear him in his own voice and to hear him explain his principles, how he went about doing this, all of the things that he addresses in his letter, what the why he decided, what could be charged, why he decided what couldn't be charged. well, let's jump into that. what could he be charged with? insurrection. we saw insurrection in his fairness. and i'll just. i've

been showing people highlights. the report gave some insight into why there were no charges for trump under the insurrection act. smith stating the few relevant cases that exist are based on the defendant directly engaging. but the officer's proof didn't include evidence. trump directly engaged in the insurrection himself. and that's interesting because it is not for lack of trying. there was testimony under oath that trump very directly tried to go there that day and do the thing that we now know today would have made him potentially liable for an insurrection act charge. take a listen, the president said something to the effect of i'm the effing president. >> take me up to the capitol now! to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the

west wing. we're not going to the capitol. >> those individuals protected not only what might have gotten worse that day already a horrific day, but the secret service also turned out andrew legally protected trump from what smith says would have mattered a physical joining of the of the criminal storming of the capitol. >> yeah, this would not be the first time that he was saved by people around him. >> you know, we've heard that with respect to don mcgahn, the former white house counsel, and others, i thought it was very interesting, the discussion that the insurrection act charge is one that they thought had not been charged in over 100 years, that there were various ambiguities in the statute as to the definition of what an insurrection is. and ultimately, the report says, you know what? >> there were a lot of open issues and we didn't need it because we didn't need to go insurrection. >> exactly. i want to show you, while i have you here, the contradiction, some might even say hypocrisy of this

investigation didn't lead to an indictment of trump, but trump and his legal team go out of their way to basically argue that smith should have acted more like bob mueller. legally. the term for this is chutzpah. when you think about the attacks on mueller. >> i think mueller is a true nevertrumper it's time to bring this witch hunt to a close. >> he has been a servant of the of the permanent political establishment. >> this is a pure and simple witch hunt. >> i'm sure knowing the type of lawyer you are, you finish the report and read the trump response. and it was pleading with jack smith saying, arguably you've gone too far. you should be more like bob mueller. i couldn't help but wonder, what does mueller deputy weissman think about that? >> so chutzpah was it was a great adjective for that. what they were really saying is don't

make any conclusions. you know, bob mueller didn't make conclusions. but remember, that was a very different case. but bob mueller go there. >> i thought according to them, bob mueller was how not to run a probe. >> yeah exactly. >> so that's but now he's the gold standard. >> yes. because what they wanted to say was make it make sense andrew. there's no no no that's nobody's going to be able to do that. all right. that's that's something i cannot do. but what they wanted to say was bob mueller because he could not charge a sitting president, said, i'm not going to use this report to say whether he's guilty or not, because that's something that will happen down the road, if at all. but it's unfair to do that now. jack smith is not in that situation. there were indictments here. so the issue of was the former president charged the yes, there was there were grand juries in florida. there were because he was a dc just a person. >> yeah. >> and so they were completely different situations. so you

really can't analogize even if you put the hypocrisy aside, you're saying it's doubly wrong. it's doubly wrong. yeah. >> exactly right. it's hypocritical. but it's also legally completely an opposite. we have david kelly who ran s.d.n.y. i've seen him standing by. he's actually standing by the glass doors watching you talk. and he looks he looks imposing. i want to get him in imposing. i want to get him in on mopping is hard work, but then i tried the swiffer powermop. it has a built-in solution that breaks down dirt on contact. plus, it's 360-degree swivel head cleans up along baseboards and even behind the toilet. bye, bye bucket. with the swiffer powermop. alert, so the deals come to you. no big deals right when you need them. cargurus the number one most visited car shopping site, tackling quarterbacks or tackling subscriptions. whoa.

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on a train, at home, at work. okay, maybe not at work. point is at xfinity. we're constantly engineering new ways to get the entertainment you love to you faster and easier than ever. that's what i do. is that love island? (800) 378-9643. call now. >> we are back. covering the release of the smith report. i'm joined by david kelly, former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. full disclosure, my former boss, andrew, gave us his thoughts. yours. big picture on what we learned today. what matters. >> i think what matters is it really comes down to the rule of law, frankly, because i think that what this report represents, it's kind of like the perfect paradigm for what a perfect prosecutor should do. >> it was very measured. >> it was written very thoroughly, very thoughtfully. >> he talked about finding the facts and letting the facts lead

them where they were, wherever it took them, without fear or favor. and i think that's what you know, anybody should hope a prosecutor would do. >> i want to get to another piece. i told viewers, we're going to go through this as the hour goes down, and we haven't hit this yet. elon musk's twitter basically has a pretty unusual section of this new report, an attempt to basically slow walk or defy a lawful search warrant that involved trump's account. and basically, i want to read from the report. the district court found that twitter's actions were extraordinary, that it was resisting standard nondisclosure order, where basically they would turn over trump's materials without telling him, which was what they were told to do by the courts. it was a few months into musk running twitter or x, as he now calls it, and it failed. quote. the district court ultimately held that this ngo lawfully prohibited twitter from notifying trump about the warrant. because the company was

held in contempt, it cost them another $350,000. any hope for the supreme court to side with them failed? what's happening here, david? and how unusual is that? >> well, i think it's unusual, but there's a lot of things we don't know. >> we don't know how often, and i think probably rarely, that twitter got these types of requests from the government. >> and then the question becomes if they got others, how did they treat those? is it because is they did they fight this hard because of who the subscriber was or was it a general principle? we don't know the answer to that. we can we can guess what it is. but i think any company, when you have a board of directors, you have a general counsel, you have a ceo. rarely are you going to find somebody taking this type of hit where you're getting, you know, really beaten over the head by a judge. you're being sanctioned. you're being held in contempt. no company is going to say, you know, for one subscriber, no company is likely to do that, depending on who the subscriber is. >> and with everything that that dave is saying, it's worth

people noting that it's not unusual to have a order from a court that says, don't disclose this to anyone else because the government very often does covert investigations, and they don't want the targets of the investigation to know all of the steps. and that's lawful. and so what's unusual or appears quite unusual here is challenging that when it is so routine. so it does lead to the impression that it is being done because of the subscriber here, meaning donald trump. >> david, how do you view one overlap between the mueller report and this one, where there's pretty direct reference to former defendant trump's attacks on the system, on the honest law enforcement people and the pressure on others to shield or hide potentially criminal conduct rather than cooperate. >> well, the first i think the

mueller report and smith reported are two different reports. and while they should be for the reasons that andrew mentioned in the earlier segment, but i think, you know, it spells out here some pretty troubling information about suppression of evidence and obstruction and so forth. and again, he spells it out in very, you know, plain vanilla terms that are pretty much unassailable. >> yeah. >> let's talk to both of you about so what here we are after all this. and is this a story i want to give just three visuals. the criminal enterprise, which jack smith refers to. he refers to the lawyers as accomplices or coconspirators. he refers to trump as basically having the extra powers and ability to get more people supporting him. and we have a chart here of the multiple enterprises that have been. again, this is according to juries and the legal process, and it's pretty damning when you actually remember all of this going into two campaigns in the

business. is this the story? is it the others who've also gotten in trouble in a different way? we can show you all the convicted and indicted allies and aides. and a lot of these proceedings continue in the states, regardless of today's end of the federal probe. is this the key story? or finally, is it the plots which we have documented, along with a lot of other law enforcement and journalists, and the jan six committee, which now we show. andrew, i don't know about you, david. i can't tell by your hair, but andrew's old enough to remember when this was without any legal update, because we were just charting these things as facts and evidence, and then they were indicted and now they're dismissed. which of these three tells the story? >> so i think they all tell the story. and i think that there's even more to the story than just donald trump and the people who have been convicted, either

because they pled guilty or because they've gone to trial and juries have found them guilty. and that is the complicity of people in congress and also the voters who are unwilling to take it as seriously as they think they should. and so i think there's a lot of blame to go around. i think you would expect more from public officials who know better intelligence community officials. we're in the middle of a of the nomination season now where that's going to be front and center, but also the idea that you could have a chart, that the charts that you just showed and it was not enough to carry the day in terms of and again, not that's not a policy issue that you have a wonderful republican or you could have a wonderful democrat. yeah. all of that's so great.

>> so david again and let people absorb the plot arrows. yeah. we'll put that back up. that's one way people view this. after all this okay. we charted it okay. we document it's dismissed. that is it that or is it the many people even if the alleged boss got away, these other convictions which we can also show. >> yeah. the way i look at this though is a little bit different, which is this is kind of looking through a prism of accountability, right. on one hand, it's the accountability of the prosecutors. and what they did here was, you know, we have been working hard for the last two years and addressing this incident, and this is exactly what we did and how we did it and why we did it. right. so that's one angle of the prism. the other angle of the prism was andrew was talking about there's a lot of people around who didn't take the right steps, who, you know, there's people in in congress who could have moved to impeach but didn't for the for perhaps the wrong reason. and then there's people who are in, in the, in their circle who

maybe didn't do what they should have done and yielded where they should not have yielded. so, like i say, and i think this kind of holds everybody not accountable in the sense that they paid the price, but accountability and transparency that this is what has happened and this is how we know it happened, the way it happened. yeah. >> two former federal prosecutors, david kelly and andrew weissmann, thanks for helping us make sense of this. on what is the closing chapter of this one? thank you. we're going to fit in a break when we come back. it is the first cabinet hearing of the trump (vo) is your asthma rescue a dinosaur? cabinet hearing of the trump era. next. airsupra is the only asthma rescue inhaler fda-approved to treat symptoms and help prevent asthma attacks. airsupra should not be used as a maintenance treatment for asthma. get medical help right away if your breathing doesn't improve or worsens or for serious allergic reactions, like rash, mouth or tongue swelling, trouble breathing or swallowing, or chest pain. using airsupra more than prescribed could be life-threatening. serious side effects include increased risk of thrush or infections, or heart problems like faster heart rate

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i mean, it's worrisome. [dog barks] with code tv. i could have told you that. i could have told you that. >> we've been covering that big january 6th report from jack smith, but a lot of news is coming down on the same day. that tends to happen as you get closer to a new administration. we're one week out minus a day, and the confirmation hearings have begun. this is the first one for the big pentagon post. this is pete hegseth, a four hour and 15 minute hearing with a lot of questions about qualifications. >> mr. hague said, i do not believe that you are qualified to meet the overwhelming demands of this job. >> you will have to change how you see women to do this job well, and i don't know if you are capable of that. >> many of your work colleagues have said that you show up for work under the influence of alcohol or drunk. >> do you think that the way to raise the minimum standards of the people who serve us is to lower the standards for the

secretary of defense? >> the american people need a secdef who is ready to lead on day one. you are not that person. >> that is what the questions are vetting. and frankly, statements were coming from the opposition party. here's how republicans sounded. >> the nominee is unconventional, just like that new york developer who rode down the escalator in 2015 to announce his candidacy. candidacy for president. >> you're a tough guy. been here for a while. never seen this. many people that here for a support of a nominee. >> you guys make sure you make a big show and point out the hypocrisy because the man's made a mistake. >> we need somebody who's going to go in there and fight for innovation. fight for change. i think you're that person. >> now, you've heard the questions from senators there on both sides of this nominee. and really these issues, there have been reported allegations of sexual misconduct and alcohol

abuse. hegseth has denied those allegations previously today. and this is why the vetting process matters. the senate and the american people could hear him under oath. >> and what became very evident to us from the beginning, there was a coordinated smear campaign orchestrated in the media against us that was clear from moment one. all they were out to do, mr. chairman, was to destroy me. >> if it had been a sexual assault, that would be disqualifying to be secretary of defense, wouldn't it? >> that was a false claim. >> senators pressing hegseth on policy as well. this has been a debate where you've seen, over time, major shifts. to be clear, there was a time in history where a lot of leaders of both parties opposed women in combat roles. there's been an evolution on that. but hegseth holds that position. and i mentioned that because listen to how he might

be softening the rhetoric, if not the policy under, again, an important part of our process, this vetting by senators. >> everything you've said in these public statements is politics. i don't want women. i don't want moms. >> women shouldn't be in combat at all. where is the reference to standards that they should be there if they can carry, if they can run? i don't see that at all. >> what do you have to say to the almost 400,000 women who are serving today about your position on whether they should be capable to rise through the highest ranks of our military? >> senator, i would say i would be honored to have the opportunity to serve alongside you shoulder to shoulder men and women, as a as a veteran himself. >> a reference there to serving alongside you can be read, as mentioned, potentially a softening there. and you could see from the questions and the

heated exchange why that is one of the many issues facing this individual who has military experience, but less managerial experience and a lot of questions facing him. so we turn, as we often do, to people who have been out there covering this, listening to all the different voices. helene cooper from the new york times reporting out this story. we'll break it down for us next. >> your life is pretty smart, but when it's time to eat, suddenly you feel out of sync. refresh your routine with factor chef prepared meals delivered with a tap ready in two minutes. imagine dinner on autopilot and enjoying tuscan tomato chicken without lifting a finger. upgrade your plate. optimize upgrade your plate. optimize your nutrition. (sneeze) (hooves approaching) not again. your cold is coming! your cold is coming! thanks...revere.

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trump will achieve peace through strength. president trump is going to restore real deterrence. under donald trump. we will have a recruiting renaissance. >> how many push ups can you do? >> i did five sets of 47 this morning. >> well, that probably settles it. pentagon reporter for the new york times, helene cooper is here. what was important at today's hearing? >> hi, ari. thanks for having me. >> this was a fascinating hearing. >> i think as much for what wasn't mentioned at it as what was, you didn't hear much about the actual wars that the pentagon might be tasked with fighting. >> you didn't hear much about russia or ukraine or china or the mideast. you did hear a lot about culture wars instead. >> and that certainly was sounded by a lot of the republican senators. >> this was an extraordinary hearing, i think, because it's

been a long time since you've seen defense secretary nominee. not since john tower, i believe, in in 1989, who spent so much time having trying to defend himself or to bat back allegations of womanizing and public drunkenness, as pete hegseth did today. >> i think he did. >> you saw a lot of the fox news anchor sort of training that he's had come through. >> it was interesting to see ralph blumenthal, the senator, actually come out and say that i would actually support you, the democratic senator, who said i would support you for press secretary, just not defense secretary. >> that's an acknowledgment of, i think, how well pete hegseth did, at least in communicating his own, his own, the position that he wanted to bring forward was he knows how or was it low key shade? >> it was definitely a velvet

covered, a velvet covered punch, i would say. >> but i think there's no doubt that pete hegseth probably walked out of this hearing feeling good himself about his own performance. what he didn't do, though, was to address any of the concerns expressed by democrats about how he would run this $850 billion massive organization. >> he he didn't he couldn't be pinned down even on his, you know, responding to his own the allegations of his own misconduct and his public drunkenness, the allegations of people that he worked with at fox news. and he he has he made an effort, i think, to shade, to sort of shade down some of his comments on women serving in combat roles. he didn't out and out deny that he said that. but you heard senator elizabeth

warren talking about his 11th hour conversion, the sense he after that came up after he got nominated. but he did out and out say, and this was brought up time and time again during the hearing that straight up and that's the quote that's going to continue to haunt him. i think straight up, i don't think women belong in combat at all. he tried to. now he's he's presenting that as actually i mean, the standards shouldn't be lowered. that's how he is shading that now and trying to clarify what he said, what he said in the past. but i think it's hard to i think some some senators appeared to, particularly the democratic ones, had sort of a lot of trouble accepting that there's mounting scrutiny of how a second term trump might approach various levers of power and potential abuse. >> the military has a strong tradition and training about following the law and the ucmj,

etc. take a listen to this exchange. >> your predecessor in a trump administration, secretary esper, was asked and did use uniformed military to clear unarmed protesters. he was given the order to potentially shoot at them. he later apologized publicly for those actions. was he right or wrong to apologize? >> senator, i was there on the ground and i saw the i understand i'm not going to put words in the mouth of secretary esper or anybody else. >> he said them himself. you don't have to. what are you scared of? did he do the right thing by apologizing? >> i'm not scared of anything, senator. >> and say yes or no. >> you can say no. the law. >> your thoughts on what was happening there. >> that was all about the black lives matter protests in may and june of 2020, when president trump wanted to illegally use the insurrection.

>> he wanted to use the insurrection act and declare that the protests, which were some of them, a few of them were violent, but they were largely peaceful, were were necessary where he wanted to declare that they were an insurrection and he wanted to deploy active duty american troops on the streets of washington, d.c, and other cities to fight black lives matter protesters. this is something that is sort of again, there's there are laws against this. you can't do that. and mark esper and general mark milley, who were the two leaders at the pentagon at the time, talked trump out of this. so what elissa slotkin was trying to do, she's a new senator from michigan. she's worked at the pentagon. she has a lot of experience in this. was trying to get pete hegseth to talk about what he would do if he, as a defense secretary, was facing a president who is trying to do something that is illegal. would he talk him out of it? would he

fight him on that? would he just salute and carry out whatever trump says? >> and you can't really say that this is a hypothetical situation because it happened with the exact same president. >> so he would have 30s would you say he mostly ducked? >> he completely ducked. >> he ducked a lot of he ducked most of the democratic the democratic questioning. he ducked a lot of. but he definitely ducked on on that one the same way he ducked other senators who were trying to pin him on other a whole, whole host of other issues. yeah. >> helene cooper, the last time we had you on, we were talking about ufos and the government's dealing with that issue. now we're focused more on pressing matters right here, confirmed on planet earth. but we always appreciate your reporting on all of it. and maybe we'll get back to ufos when things slow down. thank you. >> thanks, ari. >> thanks, ari. >> thank you. we'll be ♪ unnecessary action hero! ♪ -missing punches? -unnecessary! -check reversals? -unnecessary! -time sheet corrections? -unnecessary!

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