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>> hi there everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. we start with the extraordinary news breaking out of the middle east this afternoon after 15 months of fighting in gaza and well beyond, israel and hamas have agreed to a cease fire deal. it will put an end to the fighting and freed dozens of hostages held in gaza, including americans, in exchange for palestinian prisoners in israeli jails. this deal will bring the first real break in violence since a week long truce that expired more than a year ago. >> it comes after weeks of talks brokered by the united states, qatar and egypt, and amid profound devastation and a humanitarian crisis in gaza, where more than 46,000 people have died, an unimaginable worry and constant waiting and despair for the families of 60 surviving hostages kidnaped by hamas after the terrorist attack on october 7th, 2023, their families saying this morning, quote, in light of reports about an imminent agreement, we welcome and deeply

appreciate the return of every hostage, each one representing hope and relief not only for their immediate family, but for our entire community. >> we urgently call for a framework that ensures the return of every person held captive. the three phase deal follows the same structure that president joe biden first proposed back in may. he spoke this afternoon from the white house. >> the elements of this deal are what i laid out in detail this past may, which was embraced by countries around the world and endorsed overwhelmingly by the un security council. you know, there was no other way for this war to end than with the hostage deal. and i'm deeply satisfied this day has come, finally come for the sake of the people of israel and the families waiting in agony and for the sake of the innocent people in gaza who

suffered unimaginable devastation because of the war. the palestinian people have gone through hell. too many innocent people have died. too many communities have been destroyed deal. the people of gaza can finally recover and rebuild. >> israel and hamas have yet to officially announce a deal, but nbc news has learned that the 42 day first phase to release 33 of the hostages in gaza defined as a humanitarian defined as humanitarian cases, will start on sunday. >> that breaking news is where we start today, with former cia director and msnbc senior national security analyst john brennan is here. >> also joining us, former chief of staff at the cia and at the department of defense, jeremy bash is here. but we're going to start with my colleague, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel, live for us in jerusalem. richard engel, tell us what you're hearing and what you're learning and what the

reaction is. >> so there has been very strong reaction from gaza. we have been in touch with our teams there. they're sending us video of people who were watching television sets intently as the news was coming in. now, you could could hear a pin drop as people were were focused on the screens waiting for any word. because thi reports that the deal was come, and then there was a delay of a press conference. this deal wase prime minister of doha was was probably the key interlocutor here. the key negotiator, the prime minister and foreign minister, playing an extraordinary role. and then when the deal was was finally announced and then later confirmed, people went out onto the streets, they were celebrating some hamas members also coming out onto the streets to show that they are remain. they have been dramatically weakened, but they were showing

at least a few of them just to say that they are still standing strong. but in general, there was there was a tremendous sense of relief that people can finally move around without the fear that they're going to be bombed at any moment, or that soon they will be able to live in an area where there are not constant airstrikes and drones overhead. in israel, the reaction has been more, more complex, more, more subdued. this is not not a happy day. this this is a hostage deal, after all, people are happy that the war is ending, happy that they can put this chapter behind them. this has been a very ugly period for israel, ugly period in israel's history when first it was caught off guard and 1200 people were were massacred by hamas. and there was a tremendous intelligence failure. and then when israel launched its war to find itself accused internationally of gross

overreaction and accused of genocide, that was a deeply disturbing experience for people in this country. so there there were some muted celebrations, i guess you could call it. but the hostage families are not celebrating. they're trying to be respectful of one another. the hostage families are are either issuing statements, but those who the families who are expecting to receive the initial hostages don't want to gloat. they don't want to celebrate because they know that other families are still waiting, and that other families will not be receiving their loved ones, but only receiving remains. so this is a complex moment for israel, for gaza. they're very happy to be turning the page for israel. they still need to have a firm, formal legal decision to accept the cease fire. so we're going to expect to see prime minister netanyahu facing some some criticism, probably from members of the right wing of his coalition government. but

there's little doubt that this cease fire deal is going to going to be approved. >> director brennan, president joe biden putting out a statement before his remarks today saying this, quote, i laid out the precise contours of this plan on may 31st, 2024, after which it was endorsed unanimously by the un security council. >> it is the result not only of the extreme pressure that hamas has been under and the changed regional equation after a cease fire in lebanon and the weakening of iran, but also a dogged and painstaking american diplomacy. my diplomacy never ceased in their efforts to get this done. >> your thoughts? >> yes, nicole, this is one of the tragic aspects of what i think has been a very good development in terms of a cease fire and hostage release, but that nearly eight months ago, this could have been put into place. and i think about all the thousands of individuals who have tragically been killed since that time.

>> but it is the culmination of dogged efforts on the part of the americans, the qataris in particular, and also then the egyptians working with the israelis and hamas to see whether or not there could be some arrangement. and so we're a few days away from what looks like it's going to be the release of about 33 israeli hostages. that's about half of the number of hostages believed to be still alive, even though there are over 90 that have not been accounted for. >> so i think this first phase is a critically important one and is likely to come off the exchange and the release of some palestinian prisoners. >> but the phases two and three are very aspirational, and i think there's still a lot of work that needs to be done in order to get there. but i think we can be pleased that we're seeing now what has been a breakthrough of what has been tried for many, many months. and i do give the biden administration and the incoming trump team also a credit for the efforts that they have put forward to be able to achieve this, this result. >> jeremy bash, your first

reaction. >> well, first, let's talk about the seven americans who are part of the those who are still being held in gaza. we believe three are still alive for whose remains we want brought back to their loved ones. the three who are still alive are 65 year old keith siegel, whose wife was released in an earlier hostage release. and she's been waiting and advocating for his release. we're also awaiting the release of sergei galkin, a father of 335 years old, from kibbutz near ross. these are the americans i'm talking about here. and then, of course, edan alexander, who was an idf soldier and american citizen. and we believe that he is alive as well. so three living hostages, the four whose remains we are also expecting to come out are the remains of omar neutra, whose parents have been advocating so forcefully and so effectively for his release. itai ken, whose

parents have also we've come to know and i spoke to his father earlier today and then god and judy, a guy who were killed on october 7th. that, of course, is in addition to the other americans who were killed, like hersh goldberg-polin, who was murdered on september 1st, and whose parents, john and rachel, have been on the world stage meeting with the un, the congress, the pope, the president. and so it's a bittersweet moment. and i would just say that no matter what happens this sunday, it's not going to be over, because the way the deal is structured, nicole, there's a 42 day gap between the time that phase one is implemented and the time phase two is implemented. and at this hour, we still don't know whether all of the americans will come out. there have been some earlier reports that suggest ken and keith siegel would come out, but that he would not, because he's a soldier, that the remains would be left for a later stage. and i think that would be a terrible outcome from my perspective. i know from the biden

administration's perspective and the incoming trump team's perspective, all americans should come out in phase one. there should be absolutely no delay, and nobody can spike the football or declare mission accomplished until all the hostages are home. and we are really at the beginning of a very difficult process. previously, there were hostage releases and then it broke down before phase two, three and beyond could be implemented. so nicole, this is not, you know, the end. this is the beginning of a very arduous, difficult process. and i hope the incoming trump team maintains pressure and does not declare victory when they take office next monday. >> richard engel, could i ask you to step back and just take our viewers through the three phases of the deal that was announced today? >> sure. the first stage, as you were just describing, is the release of 33 hostages. these are so-called humanitarian cases. these are the hostages that are in the worst physical

condition because of injury or illness, and or elderly women, they're supposed to come out in batches, not all at once. over the course of the first 42 days. so six weeks starting on sunday, if that goes well. and palestinian prisoners would also be released during that period as well. the exact number and composition of the palestinian prisoners has not been clearly defined. hamas has described that that there's been promises made of hundreds of prisoners to be released, but we don't exactly know the details or the names. if the 33 are released and that goes successfully, then it moves on to phase two, when all of the remaining hostages come out, and that includes military age males. at that stage, there would be a more a more sustainable ceasefire there. would the temporary ceasefire would become more of a

permanent ceasefire. and then the stage three would be the exchange of any remaining remains of, of people who are still in gaza, hostages killed either on october 7th or who died in captivity. and the reconstruction phase. a lot can go wrong, because at each phase of this, of this process, israeli troops are supposed to withdraw to different parameters. first, they're supposed to pull back from population centers, go to the border between israel and gaza. hamas has put out a document saying that they've agreed that israel will, will, will remain within a 400 meter wire, 400 meter wide buffer zone along the israel gaza border, and that they would be allowed to operate in five other specifically agreed positions inside the gaza strip. when you hear hamas talking about that level of specificity of where israeli

troops are going to operate and how they're supposed to be operating and where they're going to be moving, there's a lot of room for this to fall apart already. just tonight, there are accusations that the two sides don't agree on the terms, particularly along a strip called the philadelphia corridor between egypt and gaza. so even now, there are disagreements about the agreement. and one could easily imagine, as we've all been discussing right now, these agreements will get get more, more pronounced as this deal goes forward. so israel is hoping the hostage families are hoping to get as many people out as possible. they say the deal isn't done until everyone is out, but there was one ceasefire agreement and it didn't last for very long. so we will see if this if this gets through the first phase of stages and then the second and then the third, and then potentially beyond that. but it is fragile.

>> yeah. >> i mean you've all i think spoken with real caution, which i appreciate not getting ahead of the moment. i wonder, director brennan, from your capacity inside the white house and at the cia, what is happening behind the scenes? what work is able to be done to ensure that this fragile breakthrough stays in place? >> well, i think there are intense discussions underway to make sure that the sunday release of the hostages, the start of it anyway in the 41 day period, is going to go along smoothly. as richard mentioned, there are just a lot of details in terms of the implementation of this, and there are individuals on both sides on the palestinian and israeli side that are opposed to this agreement and will do their best to try to disrupt it. and so the question is how will cease fire violations be handled in terms of what's going to be the israeli response? and we've seen in past ceasefires that it is

those disruptors, those opponents of the cease fires who frequently try to undermine the continuation of this effort. and so there are real issues about, you know, security and governance and reconstruction. and, you know, if we get to phase two, great. but i think there needs to be also some planning and preparation for getting to that next phase. that is going to require tremendous amount of effort to see if they can put in place some type of security arrangements. that's going to ensure that hamas is not going to regenerate itself and create a threat to israel, but at the same time allow the palestinians to feel as though they're moving in the direction of having some type of control over their land in gaza. so again, there's just a lot of details to be worked out, and particularly during a transition period from one presidential administration to the next, i will compliment the folks that are working closely together, but it's going to be up to the trump team to actually make this

work. and quite frankly, you know, mike huckabee is the announced us ambassador to israel for the trump administration. and he's somebody who in the past has called for the annexation of the west bank by israel. so i think we need to make sure that some of these root causes that resulted in this devastating catastrophe over the last 16 months or so, it's really going to be addressed and give both the palestinians and the israelis some opportunity to be able to peacefully live in coexistence. >> jeremy, your relationships in washington, d.c, are deep and wide. your relationships in the region are as well. i wonder if you could just give voice to what it has been like for some of the hostage families that you mentioned before. you've come to know some of them. the country's come to know because they have, in their darkest hours of their lives, they have talked about their loved ones at conventions and at the un and other places. but but just talk a little bit about what these 400 some odd

days have been like for the families affected. >> well, they have said and i spoke to several of them today and this week, that this is just a matter of political will. if people of good will can come together, they could actually free these people. it's not going to defy the laws of physics to get these people home. and so it's so frustrating that this deal, which has been on the table for the better part of eight months, took so long to get done. and in the meantime, so many people, including american citizens, were tragically killed, including hersh goldberg-polin, who was shot at point blank range on september 1st of last year. but if you think about nicole, why did hamas move? why did israel move? i mean, here's my quick thumbnail for hamas. they're cousins to the north. hezbollah were decimated by israel and completely obliterated, and iran lost its ballistic missile capability, its air defenses, and suffered a major loss by attacking israel. and so hamas realized they don't have a lot of other friends in the region. they also heard the tweet heard

round the world for the post heard around the world from donald trump that said there will be hell to pay. and i think that really rattled the tunnels in gaza. why did israel agree to make a concession? i think for the most part, because the trump incoming trump team was saying to them, you know, we want a win here. we want this hostage issue off the table before we come into office. and by the way, we have a lot of things that we can offer you, bibi netanyahu, including potentially support for a strike against iran's nuclear program, including potentially support for some of your ambitions with respect to the west bank and other issues. so it's going to be to your benefit to make a deal now so that we can get this issue off the table. but i give credit to the american negotiators, to the biden team, to the incoming trump team. whoever wants to get credit will get credit from me and from the people who've been advocating for the hostage families. but no credit can be given. and as i said, there could be no mission impossible declaration until all the hostages are home.

>> director john brennan, thank you for joining us. we're going to see you again in the next hour. and our thanks to jeremy bash and richard engel. richard engel live. staying up for us in jerusalem. thank you both. >> switching gears to events back at home. >> when we come back, she wasn't even donald trump's first choice for the job she auditioned for today. >> but pam bondi today, proving she's just as ready to follow through on whatever trump asks of her as this nation's next attorney general. >> will he finally have what he's been asking for very publicly for a long time? the attorney general of his dreams, and is the justice department's independence from the white house not a requirement for confirmation from republicans in the senate? we'll ask that question. plus, former cia director john brennan will be back to talk about trump's picks to head the intelligence agencies. one of them was also on capitol hill. today. we'll look at how our national security could dramatically

change with the change in administrations. and later in the broadcast, we'll have a chance to speak with the father of a 19 year old who was brutally murdered by hamas on october 7th. we'll get his thoughts and reactions to today's news of a cease fire. all those stories and more when all those stories and more when deadline. white house wave hello to zane. he's king of the... ping. for every 1 sentence spoken on a call, he has 3 comments 2 memes and 4 emojis to contribute. a flood of positivity... during every. single. meeting. but oh how his passion for product management takes your team from level zero to level... zane. you need zane. zane needs benefits. work with principal so we can help you help zane with a retirement and benefits plan that's right for him. let our expertise round out yours. [restaurant noise] allison. [swooshing sound] introducing allison's plaque psoriasis. ♪♪ she thinks her flaky, gray patches are all people see.

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was pressed by democrats on one of the basic pillars of the historic role of the rule of law in our country doj's independence from all politics and everybody else in the executive branch, including a president. it's the thing that makes the position of attorney general completely different from every other cabinet post. pam bondi gave the country an indication of exactly what kind of attorney general she will be if she is confirmed. very early on, when she was confronted with the basic question, the answer to which is indisputable to any one of us living on earth, one that is, who won in 2020. >> are you prepared to say today, under oath, without reservation, that donald trump lost the presidential contest to joe biden in 2020? >> ranking member durbin president biden is the president of the united states. he was duly sworn in, and he is the president of the united states. there was a peaceful transition

of power. president trump left office and was overwhelmingly elected in 2020 for. >> not true, but not a surprise for pam bondi, who in the days after trump lost the 2020 election by 8 million votes, had this to say. >> we do have evidence of cheating and i'll talk about that in a minute. but we are still on the ground in pennsylvania. i'm here right now, and we are not going anywhere until they declare that we won pennsylvania. >> pam, did you just say fake ballots? >> there could be. that's the problem. if they're letting. >> do you have any know, steve, do you have have you heard stories of, you know, ballots that are fake? and if so, just tell us what you know. >> well, we know that ballots have been dumped. there were ballots that were found early on that none of that is true.

>> all of it is false. no ballots were dumped. there was no evidence of cheating. and if you don't want to believe me, don't just ask. the last trump appointed and senate confirmed attorney general bill barr, who said this to congressional investigators. >> i told him that the stuff that his people were shoveling out to the public were was, i mean, that the claims of fraud were bull. >> we all know it happens in the beep, right? what billboard did there tell the truth? pam bondi, notably today didn't do. and that of course is the point. the whole point. it's why she was there. that's why she sat in the chair today. that's why she was a suitable second choice after matt gaetz flamed out. here's what happened, though. when bondi was asked whether she would drop a case if trump asked her to, bondi said this. >> what would you do if your career doj prosecutors came to you with a case to prosecute, grounded in the facts and law,

but the white house directs you to drop the case. >> senator, if i thought that would happen, i would not be sitting here today. that will not happen. will not happen except for when it does, because it already did. >> here's former fbi director jim comey back in 2017. >> and so that's why i understood him to be saying that what he wanted me to do was drop any investigation connected to flynn's account of his conversations with the russians, quote, see to it to let flynn go. >> that's what trump said. bondi today was also asked about her past comments on pursuing investigations into donald trump's political enemies. here's a particularly testy exchange with senator adam schiff sitting here today. >> sitting here today, are you aware of any factual predicate to investigate jack smith sitting here today? >> yes or no? >> senator, i will look at the facts in the circumstances.

>> you can't answer that question to me. >> you're not a part of the department yet. there's no worry about divulging law enforcement sensitive information. so just tell us, are you aware? >> just tell us. are you aware of a factual predicate to investigate jack smith? yes or no? >> senator, what i'm hearing on the news. are you aware of a do i know of. you seem reluctant. i have not. >> you seem reluctant to answer a simple question. let me ask you a different, simple question. the president also wants to jail liz cheney sitting here today. >> are you aware of any factual basis to investigate liz cheney? >> yes or no? >> senator, that's a hypothetical, and i'm not going to answer that. >> no, it's not hypothetical. >> i'm asking you sitting here today whether you are aware of a factual predicate to investigate liz cheney. >> senator, no one has asked you to investigate liz cheney. that is, the president has called for it publicly. >> you are aware of that, aren't you? >> no one has asked me to investigate. >> the president has also worried president liz cheney. >> the president has called for you to be worried about miss bondi. >> please answer my questions

right now. you are aware the truth. miss bondi, your robbery is 87% higher than the national average. >> is this. >> that's what my question is based on. do you have. >> so wearing her nominee hat those were her answers. but here she is wearing just her i don't know tuesday on fox news hat. she was a lot more definitive answering those questions. >> you know what's going to happen. the department of justice. the prosecutors will be prosecuted because the deep state last term for president trump, they were hiding in the shadows, but now they have a spotlight on them and they can all be investigated. >> joining our conversation, former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the department of justice. now, lucky for us, an msnbc legal analyst, mary mccord is here. she's the co-host of the podcast main justice, along with andrew weissman, a former top official at the department of justice and also an msnbc legal analyst. also joining us, voting rights

attorney, founder of the site democracy docket. mark elias is back. andrew weissman, i start with you. it's so interesting. hegseth was yesterday and bondi was today. and because the adaptive brain goes to relative comparisons, there was a lot of analysis about her qualifications. and that's fine. she went to law school. that's clear to me too. but the department of justice is predicated on a politically. intentioned administration of the rule of law. and she couldn't she couldn't make it clear that that's what she would do in the post. >> look, she's helped by the fact that you have hegseth the day before and that everyone knows that matt gaetz was the first choice. >> so, you know, compared to that, right? >> you know, she's doing great. >> but i'm just let's just focus for a moment on the two things that you just played that struck my ear, that tells you why there

are red flags here. one in her answer about, you know, who won the presidency and whether there was outcome determinative fraud she threw in there. not just that donald trump had a massive current win, which overplays what happened, which is concerning, but also said there was a peaceful transfer of power. but we all saw with our own eyes that that is not true. so that is very concerning because it's just it's a spin that is completely counter to a doj indictment and charge and something we all saw. and the second is in response to senator schiff when she throws in, what we should be talking about is the crime rate in your state. that is such a political answer. if this was a political debate, if you were advising

politicians, maybe that's an okay answer, right? to sort of, you know, it's a good, you know, good defense is good offense. that's not the right response for somebody who's supposed to be the role of the attorney general of the united states is to be dispassionate, is to be apolitical. and she she agreed with that, that it should be just based on the facts and the law. but those statements belie that. and it gives you, you know, a sense of that. she is still, you know, whatever she's trying to portray, she still has in her all of the realness of the fox news clips that you were playing. >> what's amazing to me, mary, is there's no political analysis that suggests that she's at risk of not being confirmed, but she'll only be successful, including in trump's eyes, if she's able to do what she was attacking adam schiff for. if she's able to use the department effectively to bring cases against federal crimes and federal criminals, and she'll only be able to do that. you

can't do that by yourself. she'll only be able to do that if she's able to lead the vast majority of that workforce. why have answers so detached from reality? answers that you i mean, federal judges are the ones who disagree with what pam bondi was saying in her confirmation hearing today. >> so it's so interesting. >> and i wasn't able, of course, to watch the entire hearing in real time. but based on all the reporting i've seen, including your clips, it almost seems like we saw two pam bondi today, right? we saw the pam bondi who was trying to say that she believed in the independence of the department of justice, that she would take very seriously, you know, her obligations when it came to investigations and prosecutions and doing those things with the dispassion that that andrew just mentioned. yet, on the other hand, every time there was an opportunity to kind of be a cheerleader for donald trump, she did so. and i think that, you know, probably that's because she was playing to a couple of different audiences

today. one was donald trump himself, and the other were the members of the senate that have to vote on her. and so that's why i think she was resistant to questions about fraud in the election. that's why i think she was resistant to the questions that adam schiff posed to her. i will say, though, one of the things that i thought senator schiff did that was really important at the end of the hearing, or i guess the second round was when he posited to her, look, we're asking you these questions because we want to know if you can put your loyalty to the president, you know, aside, when you're making decisions, particularly investigative and prosecutorial decisions. now, as we all know, when it comes to policy, that's one thing. executing the president's policy priorities are very different than individual prosecutions and investigations. and what he said to her was, there will come a day because it that day comes for everyone. where your loyalty

to the president may diverge from your duty to the country as the attorney general. and the question is, what will you do? because that's what you will be remembered for. and i think that's really one of the key things here. and, you know, i don't know what her response is. >> i'm going to play some more of that. i mean, i think we the day is i would argue the day has already come. mary donald trump ran on pursuing enemies within. he's named people. so have his other high level law enforcement pick. so they include several of the folks on this very panel. i hi, i'm greg. the folks on this very panel. i have to sneak in i live in bloomington, illinois. i'm not an actor. i'm just a regular person. after working 25 years in the automotive industry, i retired. eight years ago, i just didn't feel like i was on my game. i started taking prevagen and i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. i've been taking prevagen for eight years now

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refresh your routine with factor chef prepared meals delivered with a tap ready in two minutes. eat smart with factor. >> honestly, they should go to jail. >> so you think liz cheney should go to jail for what? everyone on the committee. >> you think i think everybody. anybody that voted in favor. >> are you going to direct your fbi director and your attorney general to send them to jail? >> no, not at all. >> i think that they'll have to look at that. but i'm not going to i'm going to focus on drill, baby, drill. >> when you say that. >> wait, though, you know, you've tapped these people to lead the justice department and fbi. >> they can do whatever they want. >> we're back with mary andrew and marc elias. i mean, marc, i guess what our job is today is to make sure we understand what is hypothetical and what has already happened and what has already happened. and jeff berman, who was the u.s. attorney for s.d.n.y, writes in his book about trump directed, main d.o.j. directed

prosecutions, a couple of which he rejects. and so main doj farmed them out to other offices. there's been a lot of reporting about the direct call and response between trump's tweets antagonizing and attacking everyone from hillary clinton to jim comey to pete stark to lisa page and years of harassment and investigation by folks like john durham, i mean, this has already happened. and it happened with people like jeff sessions, who, when he sat in that chair, made very different commitments to not politicizing the department. your thoughts about how far we are today from where we were eight years ago today? >> yeah. i mean, i'm glad you mentioned the durham investigation because that was very much a call and response. and it was with people who had a lot more distance and backbone versus vis a vis donald trump than we have now. i mean, pam bondi is being selected to do donald trump's bidding. that is his understanding. and i'm sure it's her understanding. i mean,

he believes that the attorney general is his lawyer, and she understands that she has an audience of one. and he has made clear that he does not believe there is a difference between what he what he orders. the department of justice had to do the ag than there is when he orders another diet coke or coke from the white house staff. like his view is that they all work for him and they execute his orders. she comes to this as an election denier as her primary qualification. like the reason why donald trump likes her is because she was an election denier. it helps that she was also a vote suppressor. it helps that she also, you know, did some other things that he was pleased with in in florida when she was ag, but she is an election denier through and through. and she has proven that medal. and he believes she will do what she what he wants her to do, both when he says it out loud and when he doesn't have to say it out loud. so of course she is going to pursue his

political opponents, both the political opponents who have been identified in the past, people like liz cheney, but also political opponents that come up along the way, you know, and there will be plenty of opportunities where along the way, someone gets out of line with what donald trump likes. and, you know, elon musk decides he's going to do what he's going to do with his money, and pam bondi does what she's going to do with her prosecutors. and kash patel does what he does with his fbi agents. and that's just how donald trump has used the world working. and if you listen to what he says and you read project 2025 and you listen to what his sycophants say, that that's what they believe should happen. and that's, i think, the word we have for the next four years, and we should not fool ourselves. >> and what andrew weissman i mean, i think that it is true that by the end of his four years, donald trump dramatically strained every agency, especially through the covid pandemic. but he started by trying to burn down the department of justice.

>> well, look, the panoply of what we're seeing is a complete attack on the rule of law through the department of justice, an attack on it's hard to say, the rule of science, science, gravity. i mean, you have somebody who could really cause hundreds and thousands of deaths being proposed for health and human services. i mean, the idea of attacking vaccines is i mean, after after living through covid and seeing hard data. i mean, that's i have to say that even though i'm a d.o.j. person, still through and through, that's the one that it's still inconceivable to me. but if you just put those two together and then the idea of somebody who for four years was the head of the legal and intelligence community, you've worked for a president of the united states,

the idea that you would not pick the very best people. no one is saying that about the choice for dod or for the dni, the sort of heads of the intelligence community and our defense that you're not picking the very best people after seeing how important that is to our security. and that has to be job number one. so you're just seeing an array that is really vastly different than even, as you were saying during the break, trump 1.0. right. we're seeing people who are just for various different reasons, so much worse in terms of what they're supposed to do in terms of safety, rule of law, national security. the array is really, really hard to fathom. >> i have to sneak in one more break. but i again, i want to press both of you on what the senate's role should be and what it is clear it's going to be.

that's next. >> i just hope that republicans take care with what they're inheriting. >> the fallout from meta ceo mark zuckerberg's decision to end fact checking. >> what's your message to concerned voters about where the country may be headed after the biden administration leaves biden administration leaves actually behind closed doors? your shipping manager left to "find themself." leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. sponsored jobs on indeed are two and a half times faster to first hire. visit indeed.com/hire —i have to find a babysitter. —i have a lot of questions. —when can they start? —today? now? —how about saturday? —are they background-checked? my wife and i haven't been out in a year. we need a date night! no offense. find all the care you need at care.com

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also tell them it can deplete their coq10 levels. i recommend taking qanon coq10. qanon has taking qanon coq10. qanon has three times better (sneeze) (hooves approaching) not again. your cold is coming! your cold is coming! thanks...revere. we really need to keep zicam in the house. only if you want to shorten your cold! when you feel a cold coming, shorten it with zicam (revere: hyah) prosecutors will be prosecuted in the trump administration. what department of justice prosecutors will be prosecuted and why? >> i said that on tv. i said prosecutors will be prosecuted to finish the quote, if bad

investigators will be investigated. you know, we all take an oath, senator, to uphold the law. none of us are above the law. >> everyone's back. mary mccord, you will be a witness before this committee on this very topic of the confirmation and consideration of pam bondi. what will you say? >> well, i'm really going to bet this attorney general nominee, if she becomes the attorney general, will take the steps that are necessary to ensure the public that she will abide by an impartial adherence to the rule of law and have some independence from the white house. and i plan to outline sort of three categories where i think that's required. one is, is for her to recognize that the oath of office is to the constitution, not to a person, not to donald trump. and so if there are times when she is

asked to do things that would not be within the limits set by the constitution, let's say target people for investigation based on political views, based on speech, based on association. that would be beyond what the constitution permits. and her oath is to the constitution. i will say that she needs to consider recusal, just like william french smith when he was nominated by president ronald reagan, and he had previously been president ronald reagan's personal attorney. he was asked, what will you do when there are situations when people might think that your former role as a personal attorney might impact your decisions? and he said he would have to think that very take that very, very seriously. anytime there was a situation that might raise that concern. and i think those are things that that we need to think about with respect to pam bondi as well, because of her prior personal representation of donald trump. i mean, not only has she said things about

criminal investigations being witch hunts against him and being unfounded, and has left open the door to investigating those that were involved in those criminal prosecutions. but you may recall that some months ago, donald trump's personal attorneys filed a notice with the department of justice of an intent to sue the department and the fbi for $115 million arising out of what they claim were violations of his rights during the search of mar-a-lago. how will she recuse from that case based on her prior personal representation of donald trump? i mean, these are things that could cause her, you know, her impartiality to be questioned. and finally, i will talk about the need for her to commit to adherence to the long standing, post-watergate white house contacts policy. that's a policy that republican attorneys general and democratic attorneys general have adhered to since watergate. that limits contacts

between the white house and the department of justice with respect, in particular to investigations and prosecutions of particular people or organizations. it says you won't have those contacts except for an extremely limited situations. and in fact, there won't be contact directly with the people who are really at that line level. and that supervisory of the line level, who do the initiation and the supervision of investigations and prosecutions. and, you know, this is something that i've seen under all of the attorneys general, and andrew has as well, that we worked with republican and democratic and even the trump attorney general did say that he left in place that that policy from the previous administration. so these are, i think, just three sort of steps that are really critical to earning the trust of the american people and the trust of the senate. and the senate really has a job to push her on that. i know we're at the end of the day today, and today is a day she was testifying. but these are things that i that,

you know, i am not necessarily satisfied with her answers on these. and these are important things. >> mark elias, i feel like you are one of my, my best allies in the break glass in case of emergency moments. and this is one of them, because nothing that mary said is, is controversial. and before today, none of it was partizan, right? those were the standards. but that those will be very polarizing comments tomorrow. and what will be really news and headline making will be what she does in terrain response, which will be a single republican agreeing with any of those things. and what i want to ask you is there's a lot. and let's deal with the elephants in the room. there's a lot of analysis out there that the democrats haven't landed any punches on. bondi yesterday on hegseth somehow. you cannot structurally make republicans afraid of a drunk pete hegseth getting a call at 3 a.m. if they're more afraid of donald trump sending out a mean tweet than they are

for the men and women of the military. you cannot, as the democrats and the judiciary committee either found or will find by tomorrow when mary is there, make democrats more afraid of pam bondi doing just what? let's just stick with what pam bondi said she will do. quote i said that on tv. prosecutors will be prosecuted to finish the quote. if bad, you can't make them more afraid of that, which is an absolutely contrary to everything american and everything that the rule of law has meant. if they're more afraid of a mean tweet from donald trump. so what do you do now? >> yeah, i think you've gotten it right. i mean, the fact is that the senate republicans are going to confirm all of the nominees that donald trump puts forward who stand for a vote because they don't they have surrendered their own agency. like there's no advice and consent going on among senate republicans. they're just looking to donald trump and saying, what do you want us to do? and whatever he wants them to do, they'll do. that's what mike johnson, mike johnson is

basically giving up the third in line to the presidency of the united states, to donald trump saying, you know, what do you want me to do? and we'll do it. so, you know, senate republicans are all going to vote for pam bondi. senate republicans are all going to vote for hegseth and all, and vote for whoever else that donald trump puts up there because he is a party of one and they are all underneath him. and pam bondi is not going to agree to a no contact policy with the white house because donald trump wants to have contact with his attorney general, and she's going to do that. and pam bondi isng to agree that that doing political prosecutions at donald trump's behest violates the constitution because she is going to adopt a view that donald trump wants her to, a view that that he's the he is the sole embodiment of the executive branch, and whatever he wants is the law. and by the way, he has total immunity and he'll pardon anyone who, who, who has any worries. so we just need to brace for that reality. i think the democrats are landing punches. i think the democrats are doing a good job of pressing these nominees. it's just you cannot gauge whether or not they're landing punches against the prism of whether or

not john thune is going to change his mind. of course, john thune is not going to change his mind. he exists at the pleasure of donald trump. if donald trump tomorrow said, i want a new speaker, there'd be a new speaker. if donald trump said, i want, you know, a new leadership in the senate. i suspect there would be new leadership in the senate. so, you know, we can say that these are the norms that they should abide by. and i and i think we can land punches. and that. but we need to brace for what we are going to actually have, which is a politicized department of justice, a workforce that exists under the threat that they will be targeted if they buck the political appointees, they'll be replaced under schedule f with political appointees. and we need everyone to stand up with a little bit of courage. we need everyone in the media to stand up with courage. we need civil society to stand up with courage. we need federal prosecutors to stand up with courage. and we need all the citizens watching this to stand up with courage. >> we will we will aspire to do that around here. mark elias, andrew weissmann, mary mccord,

thank you so much for this conversation. ahead for us, more on the big breaking news out of the middle east. and that cease fire and hostage release deal coming into focus today. much more news ahead for the next more n(children speaking)ext hour of deadline. white conflict is raging across the world, and millions of children's lives are being devastated by war, hunger, disease and poverty. we urgently need your help to reach children in crisis. please call or go online to give just $10 a month. only $0.33 a day. we need 1000 new monthly donors this month to help children in crisis around the world and right here at home. you can help us provide food, essentials, and lifesaving

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get $50 instantly with code tv prospects. run your game. >> there was no other way for this war to end than with a hostage deal, and i'm deeply satisfied this day has come. finally come for the sake of the people of israel and the families waiting in agony and for the sake of the innocent people in gaza who suffered unimaginable devastation because of the war. we've had many difficult days since hamas began its terrible war. we've encountered roadblocks and setbacks, but we've not given up. and now, after more than 14 400 days of struggle, a day of success has arrived. >> hi again everyone. it's now 5:00 in new york on a day that

has been 15 months in the making. israel and hamas reaching a deal for a hostage release and cease fire in the war that has raged since the brutal terrorist attack on october 7th in israel. it marks a win for the biden administration and president biden in their waning days, as the deal was first proposed by the president back in may. president biden, outlining in his address this afternoon that the cease fire deal is one that will come in phases, the first of which begins sunday. that first phase will last six weeks and see the return of nearly three dozen hostages, which we just learned includes two americans still believed to be alive. sagi dekel hen and keith siegel. according to senior administration officials, in exchange for palestinian prisoners and a cease fire in gaza, the second phase will be more permanent and see the return of the remaining living hostages. and then phase three will see the remains of the deceased hostages be returned to their families. in the last

hour, vice president kamala harris put out a statement that reads in part, quote, doug and i pray for all the hostages, and we are grateful that some, including americans, will soon be reunited with their loved ones. in my meetings with the families of american hostages, i vowed that they will never be alone in this fight. preside priority than the safety of americans, and we are determined that all the american hostages be returned home as part of this deal. today, marking not a complete end to this battle, but a very significant step, especially for the loved ones of those taken hostage on october 7th. that is where we start the hour with ruby. ken, the father of ethan, a united states and israeli citizen, and a hostage who was killed on october 7th. also joining me at the table, former top state department official during the obama presidency, rick stengel. rick, you will understand, though, if i start with ruby, you've been

so generous to use this hour of your grief to talk about your son. just tell me your thoughts today. >> yeah, it's mixed emotions. you know, on one hand, you know, we very grateful for president biden and his team, specifically mr. mcgurk, nsc coordinator for the middle east. that has been living in qatar for a few weeks to get this done, as well as the incoming administration as well. president trump, once he has been officially nominated, he and his team worked in sync with the biden administration, specifically mr. steve witkoff, special advisor to president trump to the middle east. and he himself has been in qatar. and we see the benefits of this today. but. there are still

going to be 65 hostages after this first phase, including my son and four other american citizens. and that is a bit disappointing. the time frame, which is detailed, talks to 42 days until the second phase could potentially begin. if there's one thing that is predictable about the middle east is that it is unpredictable and many things can go sideways. as such, i urge on the negotiators, the united states, to do whatever you can to shorten that time period and start working today on the second phase that includes five u.s. citizens. >> ruby, behind you, over your left shoulder is his picture and his beautiful smiling face. and then, aged 19, and i imagine any

parent anywhere in the world sees that. and, and just can't imagine your suffering and your loss. will you talk about your son? >> yeah, of course. he a lovingo he has an elder sibling and a younger sibling. as such, he is the connector in the family. fun loving kid, loves basketball, dancing, singing. as you can hear, i'm a new yorker. new yorker, avid new york knicks fan. for the love of god, i do not know how he thought he became a celtics fan. so just, you know, missing sitting on the couch and, you know, talking about basketball hoops. and at the age of 18, he is a us citizen as well as actually a german citizen via his mother. so he could have done anything, could have gone to college anyplace that he wanted to. but he decided to join the idf and

protect the land of the jews. and he was stationed at a base on the border of gaza, which october 7th was a cease fire between the two sides. and they were ambushed. they did what they could, but they were taken, and that was how we had been living for 467 days. and we need to have closure. we were notified that he most likely will not come back alive, but hamas has not given any evidence or any statement about that. so we have some hope that maybe things came out differently for him and he was able to survive that fatal day. and we just need him back. and then we will deal with whatever we deal we need to deal with and process it. but at the moment we're stuck in limbo waiting for him to be

>> what do you want for israel? what do you see as, as as the priorities for peace and to ensure that the terrorist attack of october 7th and the conditions that made it possible never happen again, that no other family goes through what you've been through. >> yeah. you know, that's a big question. you know, the palestinian issue and its relationship with the state of israel is something that's been going on for decades. you know, we're just simple family folks that we want to see an end to our suffering. it's also fair to say that the palestinian people in gaza have also been suffering, as have been being used as human shields by a terrorist organization for such a long time. we need to start the healing process as a nation, and the only way to kick start that healing process is by releasing and returning all of

the hostages. so the prime minister of israel has a task, and that is similar to his brother. many, many years ago, yoni netanyahu, that was one of those that led the release of 105 hostages from entebbe, a israeli plane that was taken many, many years ago. and he went into that mission and he got all of the hostages out. it's not like he went in and got 20 and said, you know what, i'll come back next month and i'll get the other 80 that are left. so i would urge the prime minister to remember that and to do whatever he can to not end. and end this phase and think that he has completed his mission. he has a task to fulfill and an obligation to all the other families of the victims and the hostages. and i

have a vision coming in next week to the inauguration. we have been invited by the trump administration, hopefully a vision of mr. trump, president trump saying to me, mr. ken, i'd like to inform you, your son is on his way back home and hopefully that becomes a reality for me and my family. >> i hope very much for you and your family are reunited there. beautiful, beautiful son. thank you so much for talking to us today. >> we really appreciate you and douglas. >> thank you. rick stengel. an unbearably sad story, an unbearably horrific terrorist attack of october 7th, an unbearably duration to not know the fate of your baby, your child, your middle child. and this has been the existence for

all of the families. unbearable suffering in gaza as well. your thoughts on the significance, not just politically and geopolitically, but at a human level. today's news. >> well, everybody's heart goes out to mr. chen and any of the parents of the hostages. i mean, there's no guarantee that any of the hostages are even alive, that obviously there's grief written over his face already. >> as president biden said today, i mean, there's unimaginable suffering on both sides. >> it's a wonderful thing that there's an agreement. >> it's the beginning of the end. i think more than just the end of the beginning. but as with all middle east peace agreements, it's one step forward. and then often a step or two back. and it's the three stages. the first stage i think will come off, and there'll be this respite for, you know, 30 some odd days. you know, the

next stage is the is the dangerous point when you have to return the next bit of hostages, and then israel has to withdraw. >> there's a lot of things that can go awry. >> the bibi netanyahu's government could fall. >> the trump administration is obviously supportive of it. >> and there's other countries in the middle east that are supportive of it. so i think it is the beginning of the end, but it's not going to happen smoothly. >> our correspondent in jerusalem, richard engel, made the same points about how fraught the three phases are, especially, as you said, the second one. just help our audience understand what what makes it so fraught. >> well, part of what makes it so fraught, and i haven't heard people talking about this, is that, you know, when you have a peace agreement, it's a negotiation. >> but the who are you really negotiating with in hamas? israel doesn't want hamas to be the government. >> once this is all over. abraham sinwar is the brother of the former leader who was killed. >> is doing the negotiating. so

it's not like these are institutions that are solid. you don't really you're kind of negotiating with water with hamas. and then even on the israeli side, the government could fall. >> bibi netanyahu could be out of power. >> he's under indictment. so all of these things are are irresolute. >> and that's why it's so fraught. >> president biden made remarks earlier. he'll make remarks again this evening around 8 p.m. i'm not interested in sort of playing the credit game. i do hope that that the next president says exactly what rubicam wants him to say to him with the news about his son. but it is also true that what was agreed to today is what president joe biden released publicly at the end of may. is that right? in terms of what this looks like structurally, yes. >> i mean, i think it's almost exactly the same deal. >> we haven't haven't seen it. >> but, you know, to be fair, you know, the one new variable is the election of donald trump and donald trump saying, i want

to have an agreement before i come into office that they'll be, i think, quote, hell to pay was, yeah, that concentrated people's minds and concentrated bibi netanyahu's mind because, you know, i think it's pretty clear that bibi gathered a lot of string with biden and exploited biden's sympathy for israel and his belief in israel. >> and i think he feels like trump is just not sentimental about it. >> what do you what are sort of the conversations happening off of tv sets and behind closed doors? if the state department and corridors say, yeah, well, you know, the big conversation i think that i'm most interested in is, you know, part of what the biden administration wanted, which the previous trump administration wanted, is this kind of global grand deal that brings in saudi arabia, the great flaw of the abraham accords, which were a good thing, bringing in the uae and bahrain was they didn't solve the palestinian issue.

>> saudi arabia said they're not going to sign a deal with israel unless there's some new dispensation for the palestinians. >> this is a possibility for that to happen. >> there could be huge humanitarian efforts there. i mean, it's, you know, like tacitus said, they call it a desert, and then they call it peace. i mean, it's just starting from scratch there. but that does give an opportunity to have some kind of new relationship between israel and whatever exists in gaza and with the palestinian authority. >> you're staying with us for the hour when we come back. well, donald trump's pick to lead the cia to serve as cia director face questions in his confirmation hearing today, there are brand new concerns about his choice for director of national intelligence tulsi gabbard, how the intelligence community will be revamped in a second trump presidency, and the dangers it could pose to this region and all us national security. we'll have that conversation next. and later, the announcement of the cease fire between israel and hamas is a major achievement, as president joe biden winds down his presidency, he'll make his

farewell address to the nation tonight, and his white house press secretary, karine jean-pierre, will be our guest later in the hour deadline. white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. >> 48% of americans don't get enough magnesium, which is vital for bone, nerve and muscle health. i recommend qanon magnesium glycinate. it's formulated for high absorption formulated for high absorption and is gentle when you're a small-business owner, your to-do list can be...a lot. ♪♪ super helpful. ♪♪ [ cheering ] what are invoices? progressive makes it easy to see if you can save money with a commercial auto quote online so you can get back to all your other to-dos. absolutely not. get a quote at progressivecommercial.com.

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in site credits with code tv. probably should have told her we weren't real doctors. >> tomorrow, president biden sits down with lawrence o'donnell in the final exclusive oval office interview of his presidency. they'll discuss his achievements, his legacy and what's ahead for the country. the last word tomorrow at 10:00 on msnbc. >> what we do is try to cut right to the bone of what we're seeing in washington that day. >> what assurances can you provide to this committee and to the cia workforce that you will resist efforts to fire or force out career cia employees because of their perceived political views, or somehow their views of loyalty to the president? >> well, i think the best example of that, mr. vice chairman, is if you look at my

record and my record as dni, that never took place. >> that is never something anyone has alleged and it's something that i would never do. so i would approach this position very much the same way and provide the same assurance. >> so that was john ratcliffe. he's donald trump's pick to head the cia. he is in that response, seeking to assure senators in his confirmation hearing happened today that there will not be a loyalty test that he puts in place, at least for those who work at the cia. ratcliffe was, as he indicated there, the director of national intelligence for a spell during donald trump's first term as president. but despite that answer, we heard him give today what we've seen from the incoming president and the people around him as part of the transition has been a years long railing against and maligning the men and women of the intelligence community and a stated public promise to purge those agencies of anyone who

does not fully declare their loyalty to donald trump. when it comes to the importance of our nation's secrets. what we've already witnessed, again in public conduct that we can all see from the incoming president, is his carelessness and disregard for the products created by the intelligence agencies. he was indicted for mishandling classified documents, including national defense information, and obstructing efforts by the government to get those documents back. and it was at cia headquarters back in 2017, just one day after donald trump was sworn into office, the first time when trump spoke at a sacred place for the men and women of the cia in front of the memorial wall. it honors those who gave their lives, made the ultimate sacrifice, usually nameless, to this country. he stood there and lied about the size of his inauguration crowd and viciously attacked the free press. joining our coverage ranking member of the house intelligence committee, congressman jim himes of

connecticut. and back for another round. former cia director john brennan. rick is still here as well. congressman, your thoughts on the things that mr. ratcliffe was able to commit to the senate committee considering his nomination today? >> yeah. >> nicole, i took the unusual step today of actually going across the capitol to sit for about an hour and a half in that confirmation hearing, because i do think it is so important, given the background, that you talked about, given the history of attacking people who are perceived as politically disloyal. you know, obviously profound concerns about kash patel at the fbi, but also the cia operational entity essential to the national security of this country. >> i'll tell you, my conclusion was, and i know john ratcliffe pretty well, we served together on the intelligence committee. >> i have significant regard for him. >> i thought he said the right things in the confirmation hearing. >> i kind of wish that the senators had been had pushed him a little harder on a couple of episodes that had i been a senator, i would have pushed him

harder on specifically the declassification of some russia related documents that appeared. and i'll, i'll emphasize, appeared to be in the service of donald trump's interests and also some things that he said as dni, sort of equating the chinese attempts to influence our politics with the very clear russian offensive attacks on our politics, at least while i was there. that didn't come up. again, i think john ratcliffe is in a position to do a good job, but he is going to be under an awful lot of pressure in this role. >> i want to ask you to say a little bit more about the orientation, because i believe gina haspel was someone that you had high regard for as well, when she led the cia. and it's it can be the case, i guess, if we're looking at trump's first term, that even with a good steward of that department, trump is still impervious to facts and reality. and we've also had folks like sue gordon,

who was the dnr, the deputy dni. talk about the challenges of attaching trump to facts and reality. i believe there's been extensive reporting about the use of pictures to try to draw his attention to the pdb. if you lay those facts and that history over this moment, could you just tell us where your gravest concerns lie for u.s. national security? >> well, you know, you're absolutely right about that, nicole. and you know, john ratcliffe, as if confirmed, as i expect he will be, will have an extraordinarily difficult job, right. the first term, the bodies that are strewn around out of the department of justice, out of the intelligence committee, of community, of people who didn't tell donald trump what he wanted to hear or who spoke truth to him. you know, that's a very long list of people. so john is going to have an enormously, enormously difficult job. and it's not just persuading the president that the information that he's getting is good. it's also going to be keeping morale up and keeping it very clear inside the

cia that, you know, they can't drift to where they drifted in the bush cheney years when there was maybe even an unconscious attempt to tell the white house or the vice president what they wanted to know. that's going to be an excruciatingly difficult job for john ratcliffe. but i will tell you, i've got more confidence in john ratcliffe than i do in the nominee to be the director of national intelligence, my former colleague tulsi gabbard. so again, he's going to be in the breach and it's going to be enormously difficult. >> i want to ask you well, i will ask you, are you hearing that there are issues in her fbi background check which every nominee is subjected to? one. >> so i'm only, you know, i not being in the senate, i don't get to see these things. so i can't really speculate on what might be in her in her background. i can tell you two things that give me real pause. number one, she was sort of a promoter of conspiracy theories. the idea that ukraine was doing some sort

of biological research that might have catalyzed the russian attack. a completely refuted conspiracy theory. and there have been others. right. and that is just inimical. it is antagonistic to the essential, the essential qualities of any intelligence officer, much less the director of national intelligence. i'm also, you know, it's a huge job for which tulsi gabbard doesn't have experience. and it's a very, very difficult job. and, you know, i watched what she did very recently in completely flipping on her now support for 702 fisa. right. an absolutely critical intelligence tool. now, i'm glad that she flipped and said she's supportive of it. that's essential to the national security of the united states. but it just suggests an opportunism. you know, as someone who is not grounded in deeply set principles. and that, again, is not not a characteristic that i would say is essential in the job that she's been nominated to do. >> i understand as as that you're not going to be in receipt of the fbi investigate

background check into her. but i was a staffer. and if i, as an incoming west wing staffer, had posted things on social media along the lines of what tulsi gabbard has said on television, there would be an investigative thread into that area. are you confident that there will be an fbi investigation into the kinds of associations or allegiances or ties that she might have to the things and sympathies she articulated on television? >> well, all i can tell you, nicole, is that i hope so. it does feel like the process has been rushed. there were a number of senators who were not satisfied with the depth of the fbi investigation, background, investigation of the nominee to be the secretary of defense, mr. hegseth. so again, i can only tell you at a distance that that this stuff is really, really important. i hope it is completed. i hope that the senators in the room will really probe on these questions. as you point out, any senior nominee

for any department or agency head is important, but when you're talking about preserving the secrets that, if they're not preserved, result in fatalities of people who are risking their lives every single day for the national security of the united states, i would argue that the threshold and the standard needs to be particularly high. >> i don't know if you've seen this yet. someone just handed this to me. but our friend jake sherman at punchbowl news just tweeted that speaker johnson has decided to remove mike turner as chair of the house intelligence committee. do you have any knowledge about that or any reaction? >> yeah. nicole, you know, as i was getting my earpiece put in here to go on your show, i too was getting my phone is jumping off the hook right now. i don't have confirmation that that is that that is true. i will tell you this. i have worked in very close partnership with mike turner, and while we disagree on some things, as you might expect between a democrat and a republican, i have the highest regard for his commitment both to the truth, to doing good

oversight, and to his bipartisan bonafides. and so if these stories turn out to be true that he's been removed, i would regard that as a very, very serious thing, because, again, i'll be ranking member of the intelligence committee in charge of oversight of all the things that you just asked me about, i won't be chairman. the chairman will be absolutely essential in that role. and if the speaker has in fact removed mike turner, i'm very, very concerned about who may replace him. >> do you want to name names of who would be an ominous sign for u.s. national security? >> no i don't. nicole, again, i don't want to get way in front of something that is right now, just a report by jake sherman and a whole bunch of rumors that are lighting up my phone again. you know, mike turner has done a superb job. he has done a great bipartisan job. that is a credit to him and to the intelligence community and to the congress. if he is removed, my question would be why? you know, why in the world would the speaker do

that? >> i want to you mentioned pete hegseth and i and i want to ask you about something as as a democrat and as sort of a leading democratic voice in this country on matters of u.s. national security. there's a lot of analysis in that building that you're standing in, that the democrats may have come up short in landing blows on hegseth, a frame that maybe you have to live in washington to even grasp. how do you make one of the two parties in charge of protecting the u.s. military from someone for whom all the calls are coming from inside the far right wing house, the house of fox news, where ten current and former employees gave journalists at this network accounts of his excessive drinking and showing up for work with alcohol on his breath. admittedly, showing up at a cable news show with alcohol on your breath isn't as dangerous as doing so at the pentagon. but it's a pattern and practice that's not in dispute. according to ten fox news sources, as well as allegations and law enforcement investigations into

rape. how do you make republicans as afraid of someone like that in charge of the pentagon, as they are of a mean tweet from donald trump? >> well, nicole, you know, it is discouraging to see the ownership that donald trump has over almost all republicans in this building. and i'm not a republican. i'm not a republican in the senate. but the constitution specifies advice and consent. and i would argue, and maybe this is just my bias, that there is no more serious role for advice and consent than when you're talking about the secretary of defense. that person should be immensely qualified. with decades spent understanding the military, and that person should also have the character and the values that go into making very literally life or death decisions. and so, you know, what do i say to the senators? you may think that if you approve a disastrous secretary of defense that gets

us into an unnecessary war or makes a terrible decision that results in the deaths of our armed forces, you may think that you're going to escape historical accountability for having done that, but you will not. you will not. if this turns out to be an unqualified secretary of defense. history will point at those who didn't ask the tough questions in the confirmation process. >> we're going to let you go. i feel like i can feel your phone beeping from here, but please do come back if you learn anything in the next half hour or tomorrow. congressman jim himes, thank you very much for taking some time to talk to us today. director brennan, i want to bring you in on on really all of this. your thoughts about about the twin picks to lead the intelligence agencies. mr. ratcliffe and miss gabbard? >> well, i watched the confirmation hearing of john ratcliffe today, and i think he did well. i think he responded to the questions appropriately. and he does have the background and experience. he served as

director of national intelligence for a little bit less than a year, but still, that's important. and he also served with congressman himes on the house intelligence committee. but as was pointed out by congressman himes, as well as by some of the senators, there were a couple of instances where during his dni tenureship, he demonstrated what appeared to be, again, partizanship on some of the actions he took, declassifying intelligence and so on. but he certainly, i think, has the credentials that are necessary in order to lead the cia. and he certainly is far, far better choice than others who have been selected by donald trump. i think there's greater concern and very legitimate concern about tulsi gabbard being selected to lead the intelligence community. this is somebody who doesn't have any intelligence, background or experience. she has taken some very questionable and curious actions in terms of her road trip to syria to meet with president assad. her claims, as

i pointed out, about bioweapons labs in ukraine that the united states was involved in, she has parroted a lot of putin's talking points in russian propaganda. so i do think that there is real concern about somebody who is expected to orchestrate the very complex and far ranging activities of the 18 intelligence agencies and also, by statute, is the principal intelligence advisor to the president of the united states. so i think tulsi gabbard is going to have a far, far more difficult road to confirmation than would john ratcliffe. i think the same is going to be true of kash patel, who again, i think there are very, very legitimate questions about whether or not someone like that should be put in charge of not just this nation, but this world's premier law enforcement agency. >> i know the news is just breaking. the congressman was just receiving it as well. but we have just seen jake sherman, a punchbowl news report that

speaker johnson has decided to remove congressman mike turner as chair of the house intelligence committee, if true. what sorts of flags does that raise for you, director brennan? >> well, again, as congressman himes said, i think mike turner has served admirably as chairman of the house intelligence committee. he does have, you know, i think a deep and broad appreciation for the work of the intelligence community. i would suspect that this mike johnson took this action at the request of donald trump or the trump team, because there may have been some concerns that mike turner was not going to demonstrate the fealty, as john bolton has said, that trump expects from republicans across the board. and again, i think this is a very worrisome development. if, in fact, donald trump and then speaker johnson is going to put somebody in charge of that committee that is going to do trump's bidding for him. so this is an ominous sign.

and i think it is not probably the last action that donald trump is going to take in terms of making sure that his imprint is fully on the legislative branch. >> director brian, thank you very much for spending time with us across both hours today. we are grateful when rick and i return. white house press secretary karine jean-pierre will be our guest. she held her final briefing on this monumental day with the news of the cease fire in the middle east and ahead of president joe biden's big farewell address to the nation tonight. she'll be the nation tonight. she'll be owhen you really need to sleep. you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. (tony hawk) i still love to surf, snowboard, and of course, skate, so i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol's high-absorption magnesium glycinate helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol. the brand i trust.

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1-800-290-7477 now or visit us at mso fund.com. >> joining our conversation. our friend, white house press secretary karine jean-pierre. how are you feeling? >> hey, nicole. good to see you. good to see you. i'm a little cold, but today is a great day. and thank you so much for having me. >> i remembered today watching president biden's remarks, actually waiting for his remarks. i believe we talked as you were waiting to take off for israel. and as someone who was with him on that visit in the earliest days after the terrorist attack there, what was today like for all of you at the white house? >> i think today was a feeling of relief. and you were right. i mean, on right after october 7th of 2023, the president did go to israel. was the first president to be in israel during a war. and it was a heavy moment then. and today, 15 months later, there's been a war, especially

after obviously after hamas brutal attack on october 7th. >> israel has been in this war with hamas for 15 months, and today was felt like a sigh of relief. >> it's a good day. he said that it was the first thing that he said coming into into his remarks today to talk about the deal, to lay out where we are and how we're going to move forward and the different phases of the deal. and so today's a good day. you have hostage families who are going to see their loved ones after 15 months of god knows what horrific, horrific experience. i don't even want to imagine the suffering that they went through. and i also want to also lift up the those who we lost on october 7th. and throughout these last 15 months, many innocent lives have been lost as well. and so those hostages get to go home. that's including americans, and we get to bring

in some very much, much needed aid into gaza. and this war right now is halted, and we will get to a place we believe the president's confident about this, where this war will end. >> and he came out and made remarks, i think, six hours ahead of what will be a farewell address to the nation tonight. i've been involved in some big speeches. i imagine that was already written. was it rewritten? were you part of that process? is it is it ready to go now? >> so as you know, this is going to be tonight, an important moment for this president. he has spent many hours working with his senior staff. i have had an opportunity to be in a couple of preps with him, and i don't want to get ahead of him. obviously, as you know, you don't get ahead of the president of the united states. but, you know, we've been working on this particular deal just to step into the deal for a second. for many months since may, when the president laid out the framework for this deal and that the world

got behind and that his team worked around the clock on. and so obviously, we were hopeful. and we were certainly the process, the progress. we saw some really great progress this week, and we got to today. as it relates to the farewell speech, i'm going to not get ahead of this president. i know he's looking very much forward to delivering the speech. it's going to be about where we are today as a country moving forward. the president's always incredibly positive about the future of this country. and because he has that 50 plus year career, it's certainly going to give that expertise that he has. and this is an opportunity from the oval office. you know, nicole, how important it is to deliver an address from the oval office, a farewell address at that. and so he is taking this moment very seriously and is going to and is very proud of what he's going to share with the american people. and so look forward to it. >> tonight. you delivered, i believe, your last briefing

today from the white house briefing room, when i when i watched, i thought, that doesn't mean that there won't be any more news. i had congresswoman zoe lofgren on yesterday asked her if she were offered a pardon, if she'd take it. she said she'll wait and see the process play out. is it your sense that there will be news and decision making, from the president to the last moments, that he is the president? >> yeah. i mean, look, we're just because i had my last press briefing and the president is giving his farewell address doesn't mean that we're not running through the tape, as we've been talking about for the past couple of weeks. there will be more announcements to make as it relates to the pardons and commutations. we have said for some time now that the president is going to make more announcements. and that, again, another part where i'm not going to get ahead of this president. so there's still a lot more work to do. there's still a lot more ways that we believe that this president believes we can make americans lives better. and so certainly we have we will have more news to make in the next. we have a couple of days, i think, five days left. so be sure to you'll be hearing a lot

more from us. >> i think dee dee myers, the first woman to have the job of white house press secretary, you've made all sorts of history of your own. what are your feelings personally at this? really, i think extraordinary moment, not just for the news and the media, but for the way people take in information. what are your thoughts today? >> it is an extraordinary moment. you're right, nicole, and a lot has changed in the past decades. couple of years, even a couple of months, if you will. look, all i can do is speak to my job and my directive that i was given by this president. we believe in the free press. that's why we brought back the briefings. that's why we believe in having a healthy back and forth with the press. and that's what you saw in the briefings every day. that was the directive of president biden. that's what he wanted. and we believe that without the press holding just leaders accountable, what kind of information are we putting out there? and so it is

important to have that it is healthy. and what i can say for myself, and i've done this job for this press secretary job for more than two and a half years, or just about two and a half years. i've been with this president for four years. and what i can say, it's been with my full heart, with my full heart, that it has been an honor and a privilege to do this job, to speak on behalf of the president of the united states. it is not lost on me. i don't think it's lost in even my team that that i led the white house press office team or anybody in this administration. how important it is that the roles that we all individually have to come in and do that every day in a respectful way, in a way that will make people's lives better and in the way that we're working not just for the president, but on behalf of the american people. and so that's what i can speak to. that's what it's been a joy and a privilege and a and a privilege to do it, even though it's been incredibly hard and tough it i would never trade this moment in for

anything else. >> let me just offer my praise for the humility that you brought to this job, perhaps the most ever, and the excruciating nature of the times in which you've done the job. i lift my head up to you, my friend karine jean-pierre, who's not done yet. thank you for taking some time for us today. i'm sure it'll be a busy five days. thank you, my friend. we'll be taking that address live. that is. talking about president joe biden will address the nation at 8 p.m. eastern. another break for us, rick, and i'll be right back. >> the first 100 days, it's a critical time for our country. and rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> now is the time. so we're going to do it. >> settle in the rachel maddow show five nights a week beginning monday. msnbc premium gives you early access and ad free listening to rachel maddow chart topping series, msnbc original podcasts, exclusive bonus content, and all of your

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secretary dee dee myers, as i said, was the first woman made famous the world over by c.j. cregg in the west wing. dana perino also held the job for george w bush. karine jean-pierre, though the first person to hold the job sort of in the time of the takeover of the manosphere as the center of political gravity. on the right is the time of one of the greatest transformations in the american information ecosystems. >> yes, i think it's the hardest time ever in american history to be press secretary. >> she reckoned with it that, you know, the amazing amount of mis and disinformation that you're dealing with and you're dealing with every day. but she did it again, as you said, with humility. i found her remarks to be moving because, as you know, it's powerful to stand behind the flag. it is a privilege. >> and so she was not just speaking for the president of

the united states. she was speaking for the american people. and that's a responsibility people in government take. >> and which is why i've been always so dismayed by the deep state narrative, as though people are somehow corrupt in government. >> these are people who are sacrificing their lives to work for the american people, regardless of who the party is. >> so she expressed that very well, and she should be proud. >> and i'm sure she's flipping happy that her last day to sleep in. >> and president joe biden, addressing the nation at 8 p.m. >> yeah, i think he he will talk about his legacy. >> but i also believe, as she was hinting at, you know, he's an amazing american story. >> and his story is a story of optimism. >> and i think he will leave the country with a kind of optimism about our future, which is which is innate in americans, which has been so difficult to bear when people are kind of talking the country down and talking in a declinist way, i think he will do the opposite of that. >> i think it's been reported that he'll he'll he'll make a comment he's made before that only in america can a guy with a

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$5 and get $50 instantly. prize picks. run your game. >> thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly remarkable times. we're so glad you're here. the beat with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole. thank you. welcome to the beat. we are tracking breaking news in the middle east. >> it's been a hamas reached a ceasefire and hostage deal.

>> today