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your money and. you know where we be? where from the jump. >> right now on anna cabrera reports israel delays a cabinet vote on a fragile ceasefire, accusing hamas of causing a, quote, last minute crisis. we're live in the middle east, where the chance for peace and the release of hostages is balancing on a knife's edge. >> also ahead, an ominous farewell address to the nation. >> president biden warning of a growing threat to democracy as he prepares to leave the white house. >> an oligarchy is taking shape in america of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy. >> plus, a packed day on capitol hill, multiple trump cabinet picks in the hot seat. >> are any in jeopardy? >> and later, the final countdown for tiktok just days left now until potential shutdown. >> we have new nbc news exclusive reporting on how the

biden administration is hoping to extend the clock. it's ten eastern, 7 a.m. pacific. i'm ana cabrera, reporting from new york. >> thanks for joining us. >> the secretary of state is set to speak next hour. >> with a fragile ceasefire hanging in the balance this morning, not even 24 hours after israel and hamas agreed to a deal that would end 15 months of war. the two sides are now pointing fingers and dozens were killed in just the latest fighting in gaza today. israel delayed a cabinet vote to approve a truce, claiming hamas created a last minute crisis. hamas disputes the allegation. >> mediators are now rushing to resolve the issue, and if the plan holds a six week ceasefire set to begin sunday with the release of israeli hostages and palestinian prisoners. nbc news international correspondent daniele hamamdjian is in israel. nbc's chief white house correspondent peter alexander is in washington, also with us,

former presidential adviser on the middle east and former ambassador marc ginsberg and former deputy assistant secretary of state joel rubin. >> thank you all for being here. >> daniele, what more do we know about this delay with the israeli cabinet vote and what it means for this agreement? >> well, what it means for this agreement is that if there's a delay in this vote, then the sunday, january 19th cease fire might have to be delayed as well. because don't forget, there is a process that has to take place here in israel. once the cabinet approves it, then israeli citizens have to be given a chance to appeal the release of certain palestinian prisoners at the supreme court. that takes about 48 hours. so this still has to be factored in after if and when this vote goes ahead within cabinet. this is hostage square. and as you can see, there aren't that many people here. but the forum for the relatives of the hostages

have called on the public to come here this evening to show support. they've built a stage behind me, surely hoping that the crowds will get bigger as the hours and the days go by. i have to say, i asked several people today what they thought about this delay, and the reaction is disappointment, but not surprise. they note that this deal was first put on the table back in may. there is fury that that so many months have gone by. so many lives have been lost from all sides. and so they await, just like everybody else, what is going to be the outcome of this vote, and when is it going to take place? today, tomorrow? in the next few days, we'll just wait. >> so can you walk us through the specifics of the deal as we know it, as it stands now, when hostages will be released, how many and what exactly will happen on day one? >> the first stage will last 42 days and we will see 33 hostages

released. it should have been 34. but last week, one man was found in a tunnel in gaza. so it's now down to 33 and they'll be released. the women, the children, civilians over the age of 50, those who are ill or wounded, and so on. day one, if it happens on sunday, the first three hostages will be released. we don't know yet who they are, and then another four will be released following on the seventh day. and then every week after that, we'll see three more hostages up until the week number six, while the remaining hostages of that 33 will be released. and then stage two. now, i have to say, now palestinian prisoners will be released in exchange for those hostages, depending on who they are, civilians or soldiers. but i have to say, there is a lot of, you know, stage two is very vague and people are worried that if not all the hostages are released in one go, then those who are expected to be released in the second stage will never make it out. anna. >> danielle, thank you so much

for your reporting. >> peter, we've now heard from the white house on this apparent snag in the negotiations. where do things stand? >> well, i think in the last 15 months have proven president biden and his aides, advisers and envoys all recognize this is going to be difficult even after this cease fire agreement is in place. >> we heard earlier today from the communications adviser at the national security council, john kirby, who detailed some of these last minute issues as he as he described them. here's part of what he said to us earlier today. >> we're aware of these issues that the prime minister has raised today, this afternoon, their time, and we're working through that. our team on the ground is actually working with him and his team to iron all this out and flatten it and get it moving forward. obviously, this has got to get approved by the israeli government. and prime minister netanyahu knows that, and he's working through that process as well. but we're confident that we'll be able to solve these last minute issues

and get it and get it moving, and that this cease fire can take place starting on sunday. >> you heard from john kirby there also telling us that he hopes that the first hostages could be released as early as this sunday. >> that requires everything remaining on track. again, as he indicated, he he maintains confidence. the white house maintains confidence that that will happen. but that's why brett mcgurk and others are on the ground right now trying to iron out whatever issues still remain right here. the president yesterday, in his own words, saying that it was a good day and he says success has finally arrived. now it's the delivery of that success, the action behind it that everybody is waiting on. >> okay. thank you so much, peter alexander, for bringing us the very latest from washington. joel, when a major deal like this is struck and it's involving an active battlefield, what is the hardest part about this very last stage, when it could all fall apart based on just one miscommunication, one mistake? >> well, you know, ana, there can be disruptions from any

different corner. >> and that's clearly what we're seeing right now in the israeli political process. but of course, hamas also and some of the affiliated groups are allied groups of hamas, like the palestinian islamic jihad, could decide they don't want to want to play either and then potentially be spoilers as well. one thing that's very important to think about, though, and this is really an internal dialog, is that this now exposes the ongoing tensions that prime minister netanyahu has within his coalition, where his far right members have really opposed any agreement at all whatsoever. and it's a moment. it's a test for the prime minister. will he stand with the broader israeli public, the hostage families, both president biden and president elect trump and the arab world who negotiated this deal? will he stand with them, or will he stand with his far right ministers? and i think this is not just a hiccup. this is a real test of the kind of government that the prime minister, prime minister, is going to have going forward. >> we spoke to a former hostage

in october, aviva siegel, her husband, american keith siegel, still being held captive, may be among those released in phase one of this deal. >> aviva told us how she envisions that reunion. >> listen. >> i want to tell him that i'm waiting for him and i can't wait to see him. i think i'll just jump into the air and scream and jump on him and just not let him go. >> ambassador. >> the anguish, the up and downs so many families have experienced. >> i know you personally have experienced great loss from this conflict. what is this delay doing to those families who are now so close to seeing their loved ones again? and how are negotiators weighing that acute emotional toll? >> there's no doubt, ina, this has been a terribly anguishing period. the families have gone

through a roller coaster of emotions. and of course, we don't know how many of these 33 initial hostages will be dead or alive. and so it's bad enough that they're having to wait even further. but what happens as this process unfolds and one by one, maybe several israeli soldiers or female soldiers will be released. how many days later will a body bag come out instead of a live body? these families are obviously on terrible pins and needles, but as my friend joel said, the problem here is, is that the prime minister is less concerned about what the emotions are of these hostages, and more about the poisoned chalice of the extremist coalition that he has to deal with. i think in the end, there's going to be a deal. the question is, is what concessions is netanyahu going to make to these coalition partners, such as more settlement expansion in the west bank, to get this deal

across the finish line? >> and you have to think about the trump factor, the fact that the us will have a new administration that's been cozy with netanyahu in the past, trump administration. and we know that trump and netanyahu spoke yesterday. if everything holds, this deal really takes effect on the day that trump is inaugurated. that will essentially be one day into the cease fire. president biden talked about how the two administrations have worked together on this. let's listen. >> i knew this deal would have to be implemented by the next team. so i told my team to coordinate closely with the incoming team to make sure we're all speaking with the same voice, because that's what american presidents do. >> thank you for this, mr. president. >> you or trump. >> is that a joke? >> joel, you and i have talked along the way about just the efforts the biden administration put into these negotiations to

try to secure a deal. it's going to be in trump's hands soon. what do you see as the biggest challenges moving forward? >> well, first of all, and i really do want to comment on this, this situation here about who gets credit, a lot of credit to share across the board. but look, this is president biden's negotiation. this was his vision laid out in may. president elect trump never supported it. finally came on board during the transition, agreed with president biden that they should pursue this together. and then president biden, to his credit, allowed for a non-government official from the transition, steve witkoff, to help carry the word and push it forward. so going forward, though, who's going to be in place at the state department? you know, we might have a secretary of state. i think marco rubio is probably the one who's going to get through easiest through the senate confirmation process. but then whom? we have some appointees coming in. steve witkoff will be there. key question is, and i know ambassador ginsberg knows state better than i look, there are

career people at the state department who matter, and it's crucial that they keep them in place. we're already hearing rumblings of senior executives being asked to depart their positions, those who oversee management of the state department. and that's very ominous. they need to keep the career people in place. they need to allow for the experts to be using their expertise to ensure that this negotiation continues and that it's followed through. if they don't do that, the whole thing will collapse. >> and i have to wonder, what is the state of play in the middle east right now? what does the future there in that region look like? secretary blinken said hamas has enough new recruits to replace everyone killed since this war began. ambassador, did israel achieve its goals in this war? and what kind of threat does hamas currently pose? >> i believe in the end, and i hate to say this, that this is becoming israel's vietnam. hamas's new leader, the younger brother of the slain anwar

sinwar, who headed hamas, is reconstituted hamas to this very day. fighting is going on. israel has been unable to force hamas to surrender its arms, and even with the cease fire, there's no commitment whatsoever that hamas is prepared to give up the fight. and indeed, i have serious doubts when phase two timing comes around that israel will agree to cease cease hostilities and have the idf completely withdraw from gaza. despite the demands and expectations of the biden administration. and so there's this huge imponderable and huge question mark as to what exactly is going to happen. israel insists that it will not ever permit hamas to remain in gaza. and i keep asking the same question over and over again, how are you going to make that happen, ambassador marc ginsberg, joel rubin, thank you so much for the conversation. >> obviously not the end of our

conversation on this issue. thanks again. up next, for some families, the deal to release hostages comes too late. the parents of hersh goldberg-polin will join us on why they see this ceasefire as a step towards healing. also ahead, we are tracking more confirmation hearings on capitol hill today as trump's dhs pick is set to be grilled tomorrow. what's happened so far? is anyone in jeopardy? and president biden delivering his final white house speech with a warning about the rise of oligarchy in america? rise of oligarchy in america? we're back in 90s. -what've you got there, larry? -time machine. you gonna go back and see how the pyramids were built or something? nope. ellen and i want to go on vacation, so i'm going to go back to last week and buy a winning lottery ticket. -can i come? -only room for one. how am i getting home? sittin' on my lap like last time, ronald. fine, but i'm bringing this. [ whirring ] alright. or...you could try one of these savings options. the right money moves aren't as far-fetched as you think.

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so, here's to now... now available: boost max! in this moment, describing the intense talks to reach the cease fire. a roller coaster. the hostages who remain in hamas custody have now been held for 15 months. sadly for some families, like the parents of hersh goldberg-polin, the cease fire comes too late. their 23 year old son was taken hostage at that music festival on october 7th. he was confirmed killed in august. shot by hamas just moments from rescue by israeli defense forces. and hersh goldberg-polin parents join us now. john poland and rachel goldberg-polin. thank you both so much for joining us. really appreciate you taking the time. you've been tirelessly advocating for hostages to be released even after your son's

death in august. john, how are you feeling in this moment? >> well, i'm feeling i'm feeling hope and optimism for the 98 remaining hostages. >> this deal could have and should have happened a long time ago. we'll wrestle with that timing for the rest of our lives. the important thing now for the remaining 98 is that a deal does seem to be happening. >> i will point out that the talk is about 33 hostages in phase one. if we do the simple math, that means 65 not coming out in phase one. >> it is so critical that we not just celebrate the beginning of a deal, but that we make sure this is the beginning of the end and that we get through to all 98 hostages. the living need to begin the long, hard process of mental and physical rehabilitation. the deceased are owed proper and respectful burials, and we need to make sure that all of that gets to

happen. >> and rachel, you have said this is a moment to begin healing. i just wonder, what does that healing process look like for you both? personally, i imagine nightmare hardly describes what the past 15 months have been like for you. well, i think that all of us in the hostage cohort have such complicated and tangled emotional, psychological, even physical anguish that we have to deal with. we are, as john said, finding a sense of hope, optimistic comfort that is on the horizon. finally, we have been fighting tirelessly and advocating tirelessly for 468 days. hersh, as you mentioned, was executed along with five other beautiful young people in a dark, airless tunnel on day

328. and so we are just in the very beginning of understanding how do we walk through this million mile journey for the rest of our lives, of grieving our only son? but this deal, this beginning of having hostages come home is a source of comfort to us. it's something we have been arduously promoting and publicizing and keeping in the news, and we are desperately optimistic. john and rachel, we see the stickers on your clothes counting the days. literally since this horror began for your family. and this, as you point out, john, is just the beginning of the next chapter in this ongoing conflict. what do you want the incoming trump

administration to prioritize as it relates to israel and middle east policy? >> well, the first thing i would say is make sure that this deal actually begins, as it's supposed to on sunday, and make sure that it then continues. >> and we move from the 42 days of phase one into phase two and ultimately into phase three as planned. and we not take our feet off the gas. that includes the trump administration. who's going to be overseeing the implementation. we not take our feet off the gas until all 98 hostages are home. and by the way, that the innocent civilians of gaza get to experience some relief. we saw video images last night of people all over the streets of gaza celebrating this announcement. we saw similar videos of generally the israeli population celebrating it. the citizens of the region deserve something better than what we've had going on. in the bigger

picture, it seems pretty well known that president trump, president elect trump, is eyeing for something bigger and more lasting in the region. we give him our strength, our support and our encouragement. the way of conflict and war doesn't work well for any of the citizens of the region. and we do need once and for all to find some lasting, durable way for the region to be able to move forward and stop having these conflicts pop up every 12, 18, 24 months. it's time for all of us to have a better future. >> you both speak so eloquently, even in such an emotional state, that it's been and continues to be for you. before we let you go, i want to remember your son, hersh. he had just such a beautiful smile. he had a twinkle in his eye. i mean, just the images that we've seen. such a bright light. when you think about your son rachel, what do you see as his legacy? well,

something that i really have come to appreciate about hersh is his lack of ego and his ability to really actively listen. and i feel that in the world, we have not been creative and using our insight and our intellect to its capacity to figure out different ways of understanding people who don't think like us. and i think that that is a humongous challenge that all people all over the world need to try to really improve. and then we would be in a place where obviously conflict is natural. it happens. but how do we use this god given intellect and insight that all of us were blessed with to

transcend our natural desire to outshout the other? and that's something that hersh really felt strongly about. and i feel that that's something that we both feel should be guiding us personally forward. and as people going forward who want to keep his memory alive and a blessing. rachel goldberg-polin, john poland, thank you both so much for sharing your heart and your thoughts with us. our hearts are with you and the other hostage families in this moment. >> thank you anna. >> thank you. up next on ana cabrera reports biden's warning what he says is a threat to democracy as he makes his exit democracy as he makes his exit from the white what the biggest companies deliver is an exceptional customer experience. what makes it possible is unmatched connectivity and 5g solutions from t-mobile for business. t-mobile connects 100,000 delta airlines employees,

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or just stop by granger for the ones who get it done. >> welcome back. president biden saying farewell and issuing a series of warnings about threats to american democracy. speaking

from behind the resolute desk in the oval office, he addressed what he called a rising american oligarchy as billionaires rise in influence in u.s. politics. >> that's a dangerous concentration of power in the hands of a very few ultra wealthy people. the dangerous consequences if their abuse of power is left unchecked. today, an oligarchy is taking shape in america of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms, and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead. >> the president also warning of the influence of the social media industrial complex and the rampant spread of misinformation. joining us now, washington bureau chief and senior white house correspondent at thegrio, april ryan, and professor of history and public affairs at princeton university,

julian zelizer. he is just out with a new book in defense of partizanship. it's good to see both of you. thank you so much for joining us this morning. april, what is president biden's intention here by leaving office with these warnings? >> his intention is to make america understand who he is, where he stands on the incoming administration. we have heard some of this before. the misinformation and disinformation, but it's put in a whole new setting behind the resolute desk. you cannot be any more presidential than to sit behind the resolute desk in the oval office, speaking to america. >> so that has a punch more so to let people know this is official. this is a concern not just for him as president, but it should be a concern for america and even the world. it was a time for the president to say goodbye as well. but one of the things that i was really concerned about is the fact that he didn't give a final press

conference, and we understand why, but this was his final word as to his thinking in this moment, as history changes and as and other journalists record, what will be history down the road. >> julian, we've just learned that elon musk, jeff bezos, mark zuckerberg, even tiktok ceo are among those who will be attending president elect trump's inauguration seated near cabinet officials. so given some prominent spots, what do you make of president biden using this farewell speech to warn about an oligarchy in america? >> well, there's a tradition of this dwight eisenhower, when he departed in 1961, warned of the military industrial complex and the dangerous alliance between military contractors, the military and government vis a vis congress. >> and he said the institutions of democracy were at risk because of this alliance. and i think president biden is trying to issue the same warning, not

just talking about his record, but looking at major problems he sees in the structure of government and the impact of these alliances. so it's a powerful tradition. it won't have a short term impact, but these become messages that endure. >> you mentioned that sort of echo we heard from biden, from president eisenhower's famous warning in his farewell address. and we actually have a clip of president eisenhower's farewell. let's play it. >> we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. >> i'm equally concerned about the potential rise of a tech industrial complex. >> so you hear that similarity? we just touched on it, julian. but i do wonder, do you see a through line or are we talking apples to oranges here? >> well, it's about alliances that form between government and private actors. and the private

actors are different in two different periods. but the through line is if there are no guardrails, if there is no way to contain what these alliances do, they undermine the ability of citizens to have an impact on our democratic decisions. >> and they gradually create great inequality, political inequalities in who makes decisions and who has influence. and i think that's the through line. and it's just two different threats they're talking about. although obviously today technology and the military will converge. >> april. >> president obama had warned of political polarization ahead of trump's first term in office. we've learned that he's going to be there. clinton and bush, they're going to be there at trump's inauguration, but they won't go to the luncheon that day. what do you expect to see? >> well, first of all, i expect to see the same thing that we saw at jimmy carter's funeral. >> a lot of eyes rolling. or maybe just like, what's going

on? i think we have to watch everyone and their body language and their eyes and their mannerisms. but at the end of the day, what we saw jimmy carter's funeral is what's real. the presidents don't necessarily agree with incoming president donald john trump, not just agree. they are polar opposites. foreign policy, domestic policy, etc. and just on the issue of communication, think about this. when barack obama became president, i'll never forget newt gingrich said that barack obama learned democrats learned communication style with the internet. they had to. republicans had to learn it. look at what's happening now. you have presidents who are not really taking center stage versus communications. people. mark zuckerberg, you know, people like tiktok, the tiktok leader, as well as jeff bezos going to be center stage with

donald trump. it's about communication and the message versus the presidents. so i think that's where the focus is going to be. and i think the presidents know there is a shift and they don't like it. and that's one of the reasons why they will not be at that luncheon. >> april. ryan, julian zelizer, thank you both, i appreciate you. and just an important programing note, president biden will sit down with lawrence o'donnell in a final exclusive oval office interview of his presidency. watch the last word tonight at 10:00 eastern here on msnbc. for that interview next here on ana cabrera reports, how are trump's cabinet picks faring so far as they're grilled by senators? plus, we're looking ahead to a critical hearing tomorrow for the president elect's choice for homeland security. fireworks we could expect amid trump's threat of expect amid trump's threat of mass prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water, and for zero heartburn 1 prilosec a day... beats taking up to 10 antacids a day. it's that simple, for 24 hour heartburn relief...

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instantly. >> prospects run your game. >> welcome back. we're going to head to capitol hill right now where as you can see it is a jam

packed morning for senators grilling trump cabinet picks hearings for his attorney general, head of the environmental protection agency, hud, treasury, interior secretary. all just getting started. let's bring in nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, who's trying to monitor all of these. take us through what we're seeing so far in today's hearings. and just how quickly could some of these people be confirmed? >> yeah, it's another split screen moment up here on capitol hill, with a number of these cabinet hearings taking place all at the same time. >> and today, much of these hearings will probably be a lot more focused on the policy issues that many of these different cabinet picks will be in charge of, as opposed to some of their personality traits or their backgrounds. >> for instance, here you see lee zeldin of the former congressman, candidate for governor in new york. he is trump's pick to run. the environmental protection agency, doesn't really have a lot of experience in that particular area of field. but of course, he has a long time government experience. and there are concerns, particularly from

democratic senators, senators, as to how the trump administration will handle issues as it relates to the environment and climate change. we're also going to hear from the treasury secretary pick, scott bessett, who is, of course, one of the most important cabinet positions that the trump administration will be appointing. best expected to be questioned about his own personal history in terms of the taxes that he's paid and what influence that could have over his role as the treasury secretary. these confirmations could begin in earnest next week on with perhaps a marco rubio being confirmed as secretary of state as soon as monday. >> anna, talk to us about who else we're still waiting on, who's going to be next. >> right. >> so we'll hear tomorrow from kristi noem, who is the pick to run the department of homeland security, which is a vast agency, which of course has under its purview responsibility of protecting the southern border. and she will have a very important role in implementing the president's deportation plan

and his overhaul of the way the immigration system works. but there are two big names that have yet to have their confirmation hearings scheduled and that, of course, robert f kennedy jr, who is scheduled to run the department of homeland of health and human services, and tulsi gabbard, who is trump's pick to be the next director of national intelligence. those two names are perhaps the most controversial, and the ones that run the greatest risk of perhaps not being confirmed. but anna, at this point, after matt gaetz removed himself from contention for attorney general, it does look as though most, if not all, of trump's picks will win confirmation in a republican led senate. >> anna ryan nobles, thanks so much. keep us posted as new developments happen there. joining us now is former republican congressman david jolly of florida and anthony coley, former chief spokesman for attorney general merrick garland. both are msnbc contributors. congressman jolly, when you take a step back and you look at the big picture

here, hegseth, rubio, bondi, all testify, we just ran through who's going today and what's to come. how do you think trump's cabinet picks are faring so far? >> well, i think from all the ones we've heard from thus far, anna, they likely will all sail through confirmation now. interestingly, it might be by a party line vote. >> i think secretary of defense nominee hegseth may be a party line vote, which would really be historic in itself. >> i think from what we've heard thus far, the most unsettling hearing was texas. >> he never proved his qualifications. >> democrats kind of attacked his fitness, but he never asserted why being a fox news host qualified him to be secdef, or why running a koch brothers veterans group qualified him to be secdef, or his years in the national guard qualified him to be secdef. >> i think he is wholly unqualified. that was unsettling. >> and then secondly, pam bondi's inability to confirm the validity of the 2020 election. >> she showed that she's an election denier. she tried to parse words, but in a way that elementary students can really see through. and she lied to the country when she said we had a

peaceful transfer of power. we did not. january 6th was violent. both of those nominees, though, appear headed for confirmation by republicans. >> but you have known pam bondi for years. she does have a resume of experience that one could argue makes her more qualified for the job than somebody else. like you were discussing hegseth, or somebody else who maybe doesn't have any experience in terms of like the department of homeland security, a governor from south dakota who we're going to be hearing from tomorrow. obviously not even from a border state there, but but anthony bondi and trump's cia pick, john ratcliffe, they both faced some questions about politicization of those key departments, how they might handle perceived enemies of donald trump. watch this. >> what assurances can you provide to this committee and to the cia workforce that you will resist efforts to fire or force out career cia employees because of their perceived political views, or somehow their views of

loyalty to the president? >> well, i think the best example of that, mr. vice chairman, is if you look at my record and my record as dni that never took place. >> would you have hired someone into the florida attorney general's office who you knew had an enemies list? >> senator, to cut to the chase, you're clearly talking about kash patel. i believe that kash is the right person at this time. for this job, you'll have the ability to question mr. patel. and i'm questioning you right now about whether you will enforce an enemies list that he announced publicly on television. oh, senator. i'm sorry. there will never be an enemies list within the department of justice. >> anthony, did those answers reassure you? >> no, not at all. >> i think what we saw with bondi, what we saw with the cia nominee and head south and so many others. the common denominator here is loyalty. and i'm not talking about loyalty on it in the traditional sense of

the word. i'm talking about loyalty in terms of blind obedience. donald trump wants all of his cabinet nominees to do exactly what he says, despite what the courts require and despite what the law says. and that's what makes all of these nominees especially troubling. you heard former congressman jolly talk about pam bondi. this is the fact that we are even that she is even up for this position, embracing the big lie and not just embracing it, but actively being on the ground promoting it. in november of 2020, she traveled to pennsylvania to talk about fake ballots, she to talk about mass cheating. and this was all at a time when prominent republicans around donald trump, people who supported him and worked for him and wanted him to win, were telling trump otherwise, not to mention the 60 or so courts that affirm joe biden's victory. if sam bondi cannot stand up to

donald trump when he is relentless with his big lie, why can she stand up to him on. >> let's look ahead to tomorrow. all eyes will be on kristi noem at that confirmation hearing. her secretary of homeland security nomination. she again is the governor of south dakota. doesn't appear to have much experience in this area. anthony, how should democrats approach noem's hearing tomorrow? >> well, listen, i give kristi noem some credit here. she met with committee democrats considering her nomination, and not all of the trump nominees did that. i worked for three senators, and that used to be a courtesy. but the bottom line here on immigration is that kristi noem isn't going to be a material part of any conversation, any decision making, that donald trump has on this issue. we know that for donald trump, this is more about a political issue than a policy win. this issue about immigration, the southern border, it could have all been solved in the 2024 congressional

session. donald trump kept this issue alive because he saw the political salience in it. so i hope democrats stand their ground tomorrow. i hope they point out her lack of qualifications here. but at the end of the day, she's really not going to be the one calling, calling the shots. >> all right, anthony coley, thank you. former congressman david jolly stay with me because we just got some big news in related to a senate pick in who will fill the seat there in florida. just moments ago, florida governor ron desantis announced his pick to fill republican marco rubio, soon to be vacant senate seat is ashley moody. she is currently florida's attorney general again, ashley moody and rubio looks likely to be confirmed as president elect trump's secretary of state. so at this point, moody's predecessor, florida ag, pam bondi, is going to be looking to move into that role. she moves into the senate. david jolly, as somebody who's there in florida, what do you make of this pick?

>> yeah, ashley moody's been the front runner. she's been elected statewide twice as the attorney general, very much a maga. attorney general of the state. she signed on to many maga like briefs challenging the biden administration. she will be florida's only second female senator. you got to go back 30 plus years, probably to the last time we had a female senator. the interesting thing is there's already one member of congress who has said he's running in two years, regardless of who this pick might be, ashley moody is not a surprise pick. the question now, though, becomes she does have to run for reelection in two years. is she somebody that the rest of florida republicans clear the way for support her reelection? or is this seen as just a placeholder pick by governor desantis? and she, in fact, faces a challenge. in two years, she will be a solid maga vote. she will support donald trump, and she will support ron desantis as well. >> former congressman david jolly, thanks so much for being with us. still ahead, what could a shutdown of tiktok just days from now look like? what you and

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now considering a total shutdown for american users if that ban goes into effect on sunday. but there are still last minute efforts underway right now to save the app for u.s. users. nbc news learning biden white house officials are looking for ways to keep tiktok available, even if the ban goes into effect. also, justin, tiktok ceo, shushu, has now accepted an

invitation to attend president elect trump's inauguration. that's the day after the ban is set to go into effect. kate knibbs is the wired senior writer. and joining us now with more on this. kate, we've heard a couple of possibilities for what could happen if this ban goes into effect, but we're also learning that people are waiting around. they're already jumping to new platforms. lemonade, red book. what do we know about those moves, those platforms? and are they really any less a risk? >> so those platforms have really spiked in popularity since people realized that the tiktok ban was likely really happening. and lemonade is actually also owned by bytedance, so any giant migration there will likely be short lived because that would also be affected by this ban. red book is actually another chinese video and photo sharing app, and it's experienced a massive surge in popularity. like over 700,000 americans have

joined, which is impressive because it's largely in mandarin. and it's just, i think, evidence that americans are quite keen to stay on foreign owned social platforms if they like what they're doing over there. >> so what do you think's going to happen on sunday? >> i was convinced that there wouldn't be a ban, that somehow the biden administration or president trump would figure out a way out. but i am. honestly, i won't be surprised if tiktok actually shuts the app down, which is what it did in india in 2020 when it faced a similar government ban. >> so many people get their news from social media. now, more than half of tiktok adult users say they regularly get their news on that app, according to a recent poll. i just can't can't help but wonder, is the devil we know better than the devil? we don't? how do you see it? >> i mean, i, i really don't think that tiktok should be banned. i think this is going to be a disaster for the united states in several different ways. you know, for starters,

it's really a betrayal of the united states's long standing commitment to having an open internet. i think it's also going to, frankly, erode public trust further in institutions because the ban is, i think, a little illogical. you know, we're seeing people jump to different chinese owned apps. now, are we going to start banning them all? it's just it's a really wild moment. >> while we're still waiting on the supreme court to issue its ruling on whether this ban is constitutional. so, kate knibbs conversation to be continued. thanks for joining us. that's going to do it for me today. i'll see you back here tomorrow. same time, same place. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. jose diaz-balart picks up our coverage right now. >> good morning. it is 11 a.m. eastern, 8 a.m. pacific. >> i'm jose diaz-balart. >> we begin this hour with breaking news out of the middle

east. at