agriculture, you name it. and so getting out there and meeting young people on their terms, there's nothing quite like the equalizer of getting schooled by a 12 year old in in soccer or in cricket, or by a 17 year old in basketball. and, and so that kind of opens up a space for a different kind of engagement and to show america and that what we do is on behalf of the american people. >> samantha power, thank you for your service. thanks for all you do. we really appreciate it. thank you andrea. and that does it for this edition of andrea mitchell reports. remember to follow us on social media at mitchell reports. you can rewatch best of our show anytime on youtube. go to msnbc.com slash. andrea, i'll see you back on monday. i'll be in the field somewhere as part of msnbc's inauguration coverage, which is changing as we speak. it all begins at 6 a.m. with rachel maddow picking up at ten to bring you the key moments of the day. chris jansing report starts

right now. >> good day. i'm chris jansing, live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. tiktok is now on the clock. the popular app, set to be banned from millions of americans phones in less than 48 hours after the supreme court voted nine to nothing to pull the plug. but could president elect trump step in and save it? and the deep freeze in dc, forcing a change of plans for donald trump's inauguration. the president elect announcing he's moving things indoors and will deliver his inaugural address from the capitol rotunda. the first time we've seen that in 40 years. and could the fighting in gaza come to a stop this weekend, with israel's security cabinet giving a green light to the cease fire earlier today? we'll take you through the last steps before that deal becomes official. a very busy friday, and we begin with the supreme court issuing a unanimous ruling, clearing the way for

tiktok to be banned in the u.s. starting on sunday. however, it comes with an asterisk. on paper, the ruling was straightforward all the justices agreeing that the ban was justified to protect the country, and tiktok's 170 million american users from china, in their words, quote, tiktok's scale and susceptibility to foreign adversary control, together with the vast swaths of sensitive data the platform collects, justify differential treatment to address the government's national security concerns. but it's not clear that will be the final word, because both president biden and president elect trump, two men who have previously supported the ban on tiktok, are now looking for ways to keep it from getting shut down. for the current president, that essentially means doing nothing at all. the white house releasing a statement indicating they will not enforce the ban. and that, quote, given the sheer fact of timing, this administration recognizes that actions to implement the law

simply must fall to the next administration. so what happens once trump takes over on monday? that is very much up in the air. i want to bring in nbc's ryan riley. harry litman is a former u.s. attorney and host of the talking feds podcast. scott sapna maheshwari is a new york times reporter who covers tiktok, and nbc's brian chung will join me here in studio. okay, brian. let's start. you're right here. yeah, i understand we just heard from tiktok. what do they think about all this? >> yeah. well, look, tiktok just issuing its statement via tiktok, the tiktok us ceo saying basically that he hopes president trump comes in to save the day. take a listen. >> on behalf of everyone at tiktok and all our users across the country, i want to thank president trump for his commitment to work with us to find a solution that keeps tiktok available in the united states. >> adding later that, he said, rest assured, we will do everything in our power to ensure our platform thrives. the

reason why he's issuing this statement is because with the biden administration essentially handing off the football to the trump administration to cross us over from when the ban would take effect on sunday into monday, tiktok is asking trump, who's basically holding the keys to tiktok's fate, to do something about it. now, here's the question, chris, what could the incoming president do? that's an open question, because this is a law that was signed by congress, passed by president biden and upheld by the supreme court of the united states. there's some maneuvering, maneuvering that the president could do with perhaps saying something that is a qualified divestiture that would allow tiktok to continue operating. it would conceivably take time to make that happen. but a lot of questions over whether or not tiktok will still function once we get to sunday. >> all right, so, ryan, what more can you tell us about the supreme court decision? >> yeah. so the supreme court said that there is no doubt that for more than 170 million americans, tiktok offers a distinctive and expansive outlet for expression, means of engagement and source of community. but congress has determined that divestiture is

necessary to address its well-supported national security concerns regarding tiktok's data collection practices and relationship with a foreign adversary. for the foregoing reasons, we conclude that the challenged provisions do not violate the petitioner's first amendment rights. so essentially, what you have there is this notion that they were focused on those national security things. the supreme court actually sort of set aside the other issue that the government brought up here, talking about this notion that tiktok could be used sort of as a propaganda tool to convince, you know, americans that was not really necessarily what they focused on. it was that data collection that that all of that information being in a foreign, accessible at least to a, to a foreign adversary, is really what they focused on. you know, this has been something that the national security community has been, you know, really focused on for a very long time. and there's pretty broad spread, widespread agreement within the intelligence community about this, this issue overall. but, of course, you know, you have this enormous base of support, particularly young people who are very interested in this app and use it on a daily basis. you

know, you have all these businesses who are tied to it, to it. so this is very complicated issue. but, you know, practically speaking, even though everyone's known this is coming for so long, this has been the date on the calendar, the federal government isn't going to open on the next business day until donald trump is off it, until donald trump is in office. so even though it is on paper that this is, you know, effective on, on, on sunday, really it would only be 36 hours until donald trump is president and we don't even know who the acting attorney general is going to be when donald trump becomes president. we don't know who our big being, a lot of these key positions. so that's sort of the situation that we're in. and i think that that's what the biden administration is doing here, particularly in those final hours when there's so much that, you know, you're trying to get over, over the door last minute to not be able to, you know, focus on this at a moment when the federal government really isn't necessarily operating it at full speed on a sunday. chris. >> yeah. and, harry, obviously you have a new administration coming in. so you do have all those issues that ryan just talked about. so that's the administration side. but let's talk about the court side. they

obviously were not persuaded by the first amendment issues here. why not? >> well, first, actually varying reasons. >> so the 19 page opinion actually offers different reasons. >> some said even under the highest scrutiny this would pass because the foreign risk is so high. others would say it's not quite the highest scrutiny. so under intermediate scrutiny it passes. the main thing is the court issuing a per curiam, speaking in one voice. could i speak a little to what trump might do? >> sure. go ahead. >> okay, so it's not so easy. the congress has passed this law that presidents cannot just disregard them. >> as ryan said, there's a possibility of saying a qualified divestiture. and, you know, trump has been had a kind of casual relationship with the truth for years. >> but he would have to make a proclamation to congress that, in essence, would be a lie. >> there's no possibility come

monday that there is a buyer on the horizon, and they're just working out the details. bytedance itself and china say we'll never sell the other. he could try to issue a different executive order, saying, i just declare that this is not enforced. but there's very strong law there saying, especially in the face of a countermand by congress, you can't do it. and i think he'll be sued immediately. so i know he thinks of himself. maybe the country does, as the great dealmaker coming in to save the day. but his legal restrictions and this is what we're watching as he takes office, really don't give him a lot of operating room. >> all right, sapna, you know this issue as well as anyone. you've written about it extensively. so where does this go from here? from the people you're talking to? what seems likely. >> i mean, in the near term, it does seem like tiktok is not going to be working the way we know it. >> as of sunday. and, you know,

to everyone else's point who's just spoken, there's really limits to what trump can do legally. this law is very specific. it gave tiktok and bytedance the challenge to sell in 270 days, and the company took a different kind of bet. it bet that it could overcome this law in courts. and now it is really scrambling, looking for a hail mary. and i think this is just hitting the app like crazy. like users have been hearing about a potential ban since 2020, and for some reason, this one just it never sank in until this week. >> harry donald trump posted that it his administration. he is reviewing the situation. they're going to make a decision on tiktok in the not so distant future. so if he wants to keep tiktok alive, what do you give his chances as? what does seem to you like the most likely outcome here? >> okay, well, let's start with i must have time to review the situation. he does not have that time. by the time he takes

office, it will already be the law. chris. it is really a test of how brazen and indifferent to legal prohibitions he's going to be, which is a much broader theme going forward. i think the qualified divestiture provision, meaning there's somebody on the on the horizon who's ready to buy it, just that just can't happen. truthfully, nobody will step forward. so if he tries to do something, it'll be the sort of bully through a i hereby suspend and that will engage the law that i just talked about, about executive orders trying to countermand congress. my best guess is he tries to do something because it's so much about his deal making prowess. plus, he's so cozy now with the ceo of tiktok. but i think he'll fail. >> where does this leave brian? companies like google and apple, right? they provide this. they're they're a conduit for this. what do they do now?

>> yeah, actually those companies are critical to the way that the law was going to take effect, which is that if the law is upheld, which it was today, as the supreme court said, that apple and google cannot provide services to tiktok, which is designated as a company that's attached to a foreign adversary by the statute. so on sunday, that's the law as read. but you heard the biden administration saying they don't really plan on enforcing that on sunday because, again, they want to hand off this statutory hot potato to the trump administration once they take office on monday. so it sounds like on sunday there will not be this pursuing of these fines that are written into the law that a company like apple or a company like google would be hit with if they continue to offer tiktok as a, let's say, for example, downloadable app in their app stores in the google play store. so that means that for sunday it should mostly be okay. that also applies to companies like oracle, which hosts the servers that essentially allow tiktok to continue scrolling for those that have them on their phones. so it doesn't sound like sunday will have any sort of

interruptions. but beyond that is an open question, because it depends on how the incoming president is going to define not just what his view is of the law, how the doj is going to enforce this, and then also whether or not the servers or the companies that work on a third party basis with tiktok would have legal protection if they do continue to provide tiktok with services. that's an open question. yeah. >> one of the things we've seen is that social media users can be very adaptable, right? we saw it with twitter folks moving on to other places, and now tiktok alternatives, they're they're already moving to other apps. two of the ones that are most frequently mentioned are lemonade and red note. those are also owned by chinese companies. so that begs the question could we see the same problems crop up there, just on a different platform? >> yeah, it's very possible. i mean, and this law leaves open the possibility of kind of taking similar actions against chinese companies in the future. the law specifically identifies the countries affected as china,

north korea, iran and russia. so definitely possible. this current law actually does affect lemonade because it's owned by bytedance. but i mean, it brings up this other point, which is for every day that tiktok is potentially not working properly or not available or updating. that's a big deal in the world of technology, where users and attention time is everything. so i think that introduces more questions for tiktok's business to oh boy, sapna maheshwari, ryan riley, harry litman and brian. >> okay harry, real quick, congress is maybe doing a solution to pass the 90 days that trump can't do on his own. all right, time will tell. thank you all very much. we are watching closely. maybe not as closely as some younger people i know. all right. coming up in 90s, the extreme cold in the forecast that forced donald trump to make a big announcement about his inauguration on monday. >> this is it, right? yeah. >> that looks safe.

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that crowds and guests would have already been in place for a while, potentially hours waiting before the oath. so if the forecast holds, monday would be the coldest inauguration since 1985, when ronald reagan did take the oath of office inside the capitol rotunda. the high in d.c. that day, seven degrees. joining us now, nbc senior white house correspondent garrett hake and nbc's michelle grossman, who is covering the forecast. so, garrett, what happens now? what do we know about what inauguration day is going to look like besides awfully cold outside? >> yeah, chris, i just got off the phone with the transition official working on inauguration planning, and a lot of this is still up in the air. >> but the bottom line is you will not see the president elect become the president at really at any point outdoors during the course of the day. his speech and his swearing in will happen inside the capitol rotunda. the plan for the parade is some, in some capacity, going to move to capital one arena, where the washington capitals play and where donald trump is holding a rally the night before. it's not

clear if there's going to be a moving portion of this parade, or if it's basically going to be a series of performances inside the arena. >> all of this is a moving target because of that extreme cold. and donald trump, in a message to his supporters on truth social, basically said, i'm doing this for your own good, saying he's concerned that his supporters wouldn't be safe. >> also, the police, the service animals, the dogs and horses that the national park service and these various units use to keep them all safe. >> he said he bottom line, he said this is a safety decision to move things indoors, and he's confident the production values will be high. but let me tell you, chris, i've covered a number of trump rallies in temperatures at least this cold. >> and his supporters, as we all know, are extremely dedicated. >> and many of the folks who our team has talked to already in town in washington are disappointed by this announcement. take a listen to what we've heard on the streets of d.c. just today. well, i don't like it. i mean, we came all the way from washington, from oklahoma. and, you know, now we're not going to get to see it. we're like, we might as

well stay at home and watch it on tv. >> it's actually something that we've been looking forward to for historical purposes and being a part of it. >> that's once in a lifetime. absolutely. >> made all the plans, all the arrangements to come up and be a part of this event and all of a sudden to hear that it's being moved indoors, that's we're prepared for the weather. >> it's not a problem. so, chris, we'll see exactly how this all shapes up when the planning sort of spinning plates in the air all stop and we learn exactly what the trump team has decided. >> but the bottom line is we're not going to have back to back inaugurations visibly, noticeably disrupted by outside events, be it the weather or covid four years ago. >> yeah. and you have also a situation where, to state the obvious, not nearly as many people can fit indoors to certainly not parade as outdoors. garrett, thank you so much. well, michelle, 120 million americans could actually soon be experiencing subzero temperatures far beyond d.c. so give us the big picture of what

we're in for. yeah. hi there. chris. >> yeah, we are looking at temperatures that are going to stay this cold for quite a bit, too. this is a piece of the polar vortex that's going to come down and bring down those temperatures 30, 40 degrees below what is typical for this time of year. so starting in d.c. on monday, we're looking at temperatures in the 20s. really not budging by noon? not by three either. we're actually going to lose a degree by 3:00. and it's not just those frigid temperatures below freezing temperatures. we're looking at those winds gusting up to 25mph. that's going to give us a wind chill of 5 to 10. that is what your body feels like. also keep in mind we haven't mentioned this yet. there will be snow on the ground from the day before, so if you're standing on that, that's going to be really frigid too. you might want to stand on something a piece of cardboard or really a shoe with a thick sole that's going to help. also, looking back, this is going to go down as one of the coldest inaugurations on in history. the last one was 1985. this was the coldest for the second inauguration of ronald reagan at only seven degrees. so really chilly temperatures. it's about 45. typically this time of year, low 40s, mid 40s in d.c. for

this time of year. but take a look at some of these numbers. we are looking at dangerously cold temperatures. temperatures. air temperatures in the teens. billings eight. you factor in those winds by tomorrow. we're looking at six degrees. minneapolis will feel like 11 below zero. this is when frostbite becomes. frostbite becomes a problem. even in d.c. you want to cover any exposed areas. on monday, you want to wear lots of layers of gloves and hats, maybe some heated devices as well inside your pockets for keeping your hands warm. 23 degrees in kansas city on saturday, we're looking at a wind chill of nine degrees, and this is kind of the problem as well. it's going to stay in place. so we're going to see that piece of the polar vortex kind of break off and stay in place. and that's going to bring this extended chill for quite a time. that gets taxing on the body as well. minneapolis on sunday the air temperature two below zero. you factor in the winds. it's going to feel like 21 below zero. we're looking at tulsa 27. the wind chill there, 18. wind chill in huntsville 23. and buffalo. you're going to be very cold with the wind chill wind chill of 12 degrees. then as we go throughout the next

week, we're not getting much relief. so we're going to see this. stay put chicago single digits monday and tuesday. by wednesday 22 degrees atlanta. we're looking at temperatures that are going to be dangerous as well for that area. we're not used to temperatures below freezing in some spots. 36 on wednesday raleigh same story. and then we're also chris. we're talking about that winter storm that will be coming as well. that's going to bring the snow to the dc area on sunday. but it will be out with sunshine by monday. >> back to you, michelle grossman. thank you. and a quick programing note for all of you. be sure to tune in to msnbc. special coverage of the inauguration. morning joe kicks it off monday, 6 a.m. eastern, followed by rachel maddow and team with key moments and special analysis starting at 10 a.m. eastern. and coming up, another high profile confirmation hearing today on capitol hill. did governor kristi noem make the case to be the next dhs secretary and helm donald trump's number one issue? immigration? >> here you go. >> is there any way to get a

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that the agency she's been tapped to lead is both broken and dysfunctional. the testimony came from south dakota governor kristi noem during her confirmation hearing for a position where immigration would be the biggest issue in her purview, but four sources familiar with the trump transition tell nbc news if she is confirmed, no would actually be taking orders from border czar tom homan and deputy chief of staff for policy stephen

miller when it comes to immigration. so she was questioned about that today. >> who's going to be in charge of the border? >> well, the president will be in charge of the border. >> will he be giving orders directly to cbp, ice, uscis, that tom homan has a direct line to the president? >> he is an advisor to the president, the border czar. i obviously will be, if nominated and confirmed and put into the position of being the department of homeland security secretary and responsible for the authorities that we have and the actions that we take. >> joining us now, nbc's julia ainsley, who is reporting from the border in harlingen, texas, and former republican congressman of pennsylvania charlie dent. so, julia, what do we know about the plans tom homan might have for kristi noem? well, look, chris, in typical trump fashion, he likes to set people up in a position where they're going to be competing with each other. >> we understand that tom homan is border czar at the white house, will be in charge of the

border. homan has used those words. he'll also be competing against stephen miller, who has big plans for how he wants mass deportations to be carried out. then you have the soon to be, presumably secretary noem. she didn't seem to face much opposition today. she, of course, is dhs secretary, is going to be in charge of 250,000 people. big on their plate is the southern border. so how all that gets mapped out still has to be seen. but as we understand it, they really want to have immigration policy held within the white house. i'm right down here at a place where they will be doing deportation flights. in fact, the biden administration already runs about three planes a week out of this airport for deportations. we understand that could get a lot busier. but when it comes to the mechanics of those plans, how it's staffed, the security they have to get on these planes, the detention space they need for the migrants before they're deported, and everything else. the question will come is that ultimately left up to the dhs secretary? or how much of a hand will miller and homan ultimately have in that process? because right now,

homan is saying he's in charge. >> all right, julia ainsley, thank you so much. so, congressman, there was another exchange with senator blumenthal. he was pressing governor noem on whether she'd push back on trump if he withheld funds from states for personal or political reasons. and here's what she said. >> you would stand up to him and say, mr. president, we need to allocate that money. >> senator, in three days, president trump will take an oath to uphold the constitution and the rule of law in this country. and he will do that. and i'll be glad to have him back. and i speak to hypotheticals. i will deliver the programs as the law than a hypothetical. >> so loyalty and independence from trump. that has been a key theme in several confirmation hearings. do you think governor noem did anything to alleviate some of those concerns? i mean, it does look like she's going to sail through. >> well, yeah, she's well, first, i know kristi noem. >> we served together in the house. >> she's capable and she's

competent, but she's also in one one heck of a pickle. she is going to be responsible ultimately for what happens at the border. so things go wrong. if tom homan makes decisions and she really doesn't have authority, she's the one who's going to be hauled before congress and having to answer. >> she's going to have a tough time with that. >> and she also, of course, is homeland security secretary. >> she's going to oversee fema and emergency response. >> and i suspect, you know, with respect to the california fires, she will also, you know, be be in the hot seat, figuratively speaking, in the event that things happen, that, you know, if it's perceived that president trump is being vindictive towards governor newsom and playing games with the disaster relief for california, she'll be she'll be in a tight spot. so look, i think she did the best she could under the circumstances today. but this is going to be an ongoing problem for her trying to assert her independence from from homan, because she is the one who's

ultimately going to be called before congress to answer for whatever happens on the border, or disaster relief and other issues under the purview of the department. >> you said you found her to be competent. she pointed to her experience as governor today. she says that helped her prepare for this possible role. but this is a department that has more than 240,000 employees and operating budget of more than $100 billion. she has virtually, well, very little national security experience, no law enforcement experience. she's not from a border state, right? are you surprised that her qualifications, those things weren't questioned more? >> well, the first homeland security secretary was tom ridge. >> he was from my home state. >> we were not a border state. and so and he did a fine job this this department. >> you're right. it has hundreds of thousands of employees. >> you oversee secret service, fema, customs, border protection, ice, the coast guard, the uscis. i'm probably forgetting a few areas.

>> transportation security administration, all that airport security, everything that goes on at the ports of entry. it's a big job. i mean, i don't know that there's anybody who is uniquely qualified for this job. you need experience in so many areas. and obviously she's a governor and you can pick apart her qualifications. it's fair to do that. but i don't know anybody who is really fully equipped to deal with the diverse nature of this department. these are all these agencies that were slapped together back after nine over 11 and not necessarily made a whole lot of sense, not necessarily coherent, but but she's going to have to deal with it. and, you know, people will question her, her, her competencies. but i found her to be pretty capable when she was in the house. >> former congressman charlie dent, it's always good to see you. thank you. we have a little breaking news. nbc news correspondent shaquille brewster joins us on the phone. but the person you're seeing there is the lieutenant governor of ohio. and he will be shaq, right. as you see the current governor, mike dewine, there on the left,

he will be the lieutenant governor. the new ohio senator. >> that's exactly right, chris. >> and you're watching that live picture. this is an announcement that's taking place as we speak. ohio governor mike dewine, who is standing there on the left, is appointing his lieutenant governor, jon husted, to replace vice president elect jd vance, who was, of course, elected back in november. >> he is 57 years old. he's the former ohio house speaker and former ohio secretary of state. he served two terms in that position, and he's, of course, a close ally of the governor and has good relations from what we know with former president or with president elect donald trump. and since that election in november, there's been a lot of speculation and posturing, frankly, about this seat that was held by vp elect jd vance, including state officials, gop operatives who were in the running and in the mix to be named, of course, vivek ramaswamy was named and was in

the mix and initially kind of pulled himself out of contention. and then in the past couple of weeks, seems to have had a change of heart and was interested in this position recently meeting with governor dewine. but dewine ultimately saying that after interviewing several people in a large and talking with a large number of people, he settled on husted for a couple of different reasons. he wanted someone who knew the state, who knew the interaction between the state and federal government, but someone who also had the electoral chops. and that's because husted is going to not just have to run again in the midterm elections. so in november of 2026, but he's going to then have to turn around and run for a full term in 2028. so he wanted someone who could win in his words and dewine's words, who could be competitive in a republican primary for what's expected to be a contested race later along the lines. and as we i'm watching notes from this press conference, that's happening again as i'm talking

right now. and he said it's saying that it was an honor for him to accept this appointment. it's something he suggested he did not make lightly. if you read the tea leaves there a little bit, we know that he was someone who was considering running for governor in the next election in 2026, because dewine is term limited. so there are a lot of different factors here. we know this is going to impact ohio politics a lot. a lot of those names i mentioned before will likely be in the mix for some of these races coming up. but you see him there now, it will be lieutenant governor jon husted, who will replace vice president elect jd vance to represent ohio in the senate. >> shaquille brewster, thank you for that. and as we watch this scene in columbus, ohio, he just mentioned vivek ramaswamy, who of course, is part of donald trump's plan along with elon musk, to take an ax to government spending. but according to two people who have spoken to the washington post, and this has just come out, they say that ramaswamy does indeed plan to run for ohio governor.

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nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell. of course. andrea, not everyone is on board with this deal. protests outside of netanyahu's office against it. as you know, a key right wing member of his coalition is saying he'll resign if it goes through. so the key question, does this agreement have the support to pass? and if it does, what comes next? >> well, those are great questions, chris. it does have the support to pass. we believe that's what israeli officials are telling me. that's how former israeli outside experts are telling me from various political factions, it has the support to pass, because there is an overwhelming majority of israelis who want a hostage deal, even though this one is agonizing for them. the reason why the national security advisor, minister ben gvir, said he would resign if it goes into place, but not bring down the government. importantly, he's one of two far right ministers who have all along been threatening to bring down the government if bring down the

coalition government and force netanyahu to elections. if this deal or any deal went through, that's why all summer long there was opposition within that right wing faction, and netanyahu was working on keeping his government in power rather than on the hostage deal. but there were there is an overwhelming majority in favor of the hostage deal. as bad as this is. it's bad from their perspective because while ending the war, they would also have the release of hundreds of palestinian prisoners. and that's why ben-gvir says he will resign as minister. now, at the same time, it still has to go through the knesset, which is the full parliament. it is rare, as you point out, this action by the cabinet is taking place right now. it's 830 8:42 p.m. in israel. so there's a seven hour time difference. it's well after sundown on sabbath. this there's nothing official that ever takes place. so they're doing this

because it is an emergency, and the knesset is likely to also go ahead and approve it. the parliament on the sabbath, which is until sundown tomorrow night. it's there's a lot of pressure, as you know, from donald trump, to have this done by the inaugural as well as the biden administration. the first hostages would come out. the earliest would be sunday, potentially monday morning, their time, and there would be three israeli women. it would take a while, days, if not weeks before the first americans, two americans would come out in the first phase of this deal. >> chris. andrea mitchell. thank you, as always. a russian court has now convicted three lawyers who worked for alexei navalny, the late putin critic who died just under a year ago in an arctic prison. they are charged with being part of an extremist group for passing navalny's writings and letters to his supporters outside the prison. navalny's widow, yulia navalnaya, was called today's ruling revenge by the kremlin and called for their immediate release. and still ahead, an

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is talking in detail for the first time about what he thinks went wrong. and in his exclusive interview with our lawrence o'donnell, shouldering the blame for some mistakes in not communicating to voters, including on covid checks. >> did it cross your mind to put your name on the checks? >> it did cross my mind, but what were the mistake we made was i think i made was not getting our allies to acknowledge that the democrats did this. so, for example, the new billion dollar bridge over the ohio river, we'll call it the democratic bridge, figuratively speaking. talk about who put it together. let people know that this was something the democrats did, that it was done by the party. that's different than me writing a check and me signing a check and saying i did it. i'm not a very good huckster. i mean, you

know, it wasn't a stupid thing for me to do. it helped him a lot, and it undermined our ability to convince people that we were the ones that were getting this to them. and so. but i don't think, ironically, i almost spent too much time on the policy, not enough time on the politics. >> i want to bring in msnbc host and associate editor of the washington post, jonathan capehart. it's good to see you, my friend. look, the biden administration made massive investments in infrastructure. he is leaving with a booming stock market, low unemployment. but many of the real effects of what he put in motion won't come clearly into focus for a while, as you know. so how do democrats message those wins? because two years from now, a lot of them are going to have to run again. >> right. and so two years from now, all those things that the president was talking about there, hopefully a lot of them

will will have, you know, holes would have been dug, ribbons would have been cut. and democrats, the way they take advantage of that, is going to those ribbon cuttings and reminding people, you know, we being democrats, you know, we did this fill in the blank years ago. and now here are the fruits of our labor. you know the president i think in that clip it's very interesting what he was saying there was you know, i did a, you know, did do a good job of messaging, but neither did the other democrats running for office. they didn't do a good job of messaging because they didn't take advantage of saying that this bridge was done by us, the democrats. and so i think his message to them going forward is take credit for what you did. >> yeah, i think part of that is, you know, that is one thing donald trump knows how to do is take credit. so let me talk a little bit about what veteran political strategist james carville said. he summed up the end of the biden administration

this way, quote, the joe biden story is one of the great tragedies of american politics. i really mean that he should be having a glorious, well-deserved, highly acclaimed retirement. and he's not. it's hard to blame anybody but him. then yesterday, i was talking to james clyburn. he told me that he thought biden will go down as one of the greatest presidents in our history. is either man right? or is the truth likely going to land somewhere in between? do you think, jonathan? >> everything. james carville is right in the short term because that's all anyone can see right now. everyone's always looking for someone to blame, and so everyone's looking to blame the guy at the top of the ticket. i think congressman clyburn is also right, because as we have seen, history always, history allows us the perspective and the time and the distance to really take a look at a presidency. papers become available, interviews are done, books are written that fill in

the holes that we don't have right now. and as we saw in the funeral with a president carter, who also was a one term democratic president who left washington with low approval ratings, seemingly the entire country hating him. and yet, at his funeral, he was celebrated as a as a really good president because we had 40 years worth of distance and history and knowledge and reporting and books written to show that the carter who left in in 80, in 81 wasn't nearly as bad, nearly as horrendous as the short term history showed. >> let me ask you finally, a little bit about these reports about the morgue like atmosphere inside the white house. endings are hard. endings of an administration are hard. i was there the day after hillary clinton lost. i had been a white

house correspondent then. it was not a happy place to be in spite of barack obama trying to tell people, you know, we've got a job to do. let's finish this out strong. but i wonder what you're hearing about the concerns that are out there and how much of joe biden's legacy do you think will be determined by the fact that he was bookended by donald trump? >> yeah, i understand the morgue like atmosphere folks wanted. folks wanted vice president harris to win one because she's a fellow democrat. two, it would mean not just the continuation of the work that the biden-harris administration did, but it would be a continuation and an extension, furthering with a what was hoped to be a president harris stamp on things going forward. but now that, you know, we're about to go through another trump presidency and what we saw, what trump tried to do by taking a wrecking ball. he

tried to basically erase the obama, the obama years. he's going to try to do that again with the four biden years. but i you know, i hope that that morgue like atmosphere dissipates and goes away among democrats writ large, because, again, history shows that defeats are not permanent and that despair cannot become cannot become permanent because the fights continue people's lives, people's hopes and dreams depend on folks in that white house right now, dusting themselves off and taking the fight legislatively, culturally, to the other side to move the country forward. >> yeah, very little can happen until you can shake it off, which is easier said than done, right? jonathan, always good to see you. and by the way, be sure to check out jonathan show this saturday and sunday show with jonathan capehart, weekends at 6 p.m. eastern on msnbc, and much

more on how the cold weather is upending plans for the inauguration of president elect donald trump. stay close. more donald trump. stay close. more chris jansing reports prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water, and for zero heartburn 1 prilosec a day... beats taking up to 10 antacids a day. it's that simple, for 24 hour heartburn relief... one beats ten. prilosec otc. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job on indeed, it's easier for talented candidates to find it. which makes it easier for you to hire them. visit indeed.com/hire cracked windshield. >> but at least you can go to safelite. >> com and schedule a fix in minutes. >> can't confirm. >> very easy safelite can come

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