to get $50 instantly in site credits with code tv. >> for the first 100 days of this new administration, i am going to be here on msnbc at 9 p.m. eastern five nights a week, monday through friday. >> we will watch what they do and not just what they say from now on. >> and for the first 100 days and for the duration. but what they are saying thus far, and what they are doing thus far, have both been utterly shambolic. >> and none of us should be afraid to say so. >> and none of us here are so for these first 100 days, you and i, we are going to spend a lot of time together. >> was unanimous. every justice on the supreme court, both liberal and conservative,

agreed. >> tiktok is a national security threat, and the bipartisan ban enacted by congress is constitutional. >> quote, there is no doubt that for more than 170 million americans, tiktok offers a distinctive and expansive outlet for expression, means of engagement, and source of community. >> that's what the decision said. >> it also adds, but congress has determined that divestiture is necessary to address its well-supported national security concerns regarding tiktok's data collection, the practices and the relationship with the foreign adversary. so what now? the ban takes effect on sunday, and with it, a steep daily violation fee for any app store that continues to offer a download or even an update. so will bytedance sell? >> the company says no way, and there is precedent to believe them. >> india, which had had even more users than the united states, banned tiktok back in 2020 and the app just went dark.

there's also the trump effect. the incoming president, who gets sworn in on monday just a day after, says he is working with tiktok to save it from the ban. but what exactly does he have? does he have the power to do here? can an executive order overrule a law held up upheld by the supreme court? can his doj just refused to enforce it? and what exactly are the security concerns? a whole lot of questions today. joining us now, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, nbc news business and data correspondent brian chung, nbc news national enforcement and intelligence correspondent tom winter, former general counsel of the national security agency and senior adviser at the center for strategic and international studies. glenn gerstell and punchbowl news co-founder and msnbc political contributor jake sherman. full house today. >> lisa, the legal stuff supreme court was unanimous. >> they're rarely unanimous. or at least they're not unanimous on big decisions that folks pay close attention to. and they agreed that congress was right

to do this, or they agree that the law itself is constitutional. if donald trump wants to save it, what can he what does he have the legal power to do to save it? >> well, of course, we know that donald trump's legal power is sort of itself a complex question in a post presidential immunity decision world, right? nothing that he does now might have the same bite with respect to courts rejections of it that it did before. but that having been said, he principally has sort of two lanes that he could go down. katie. one would be to issue an executive order, which we understand from other public reporting he's considering. the other would just be to direct the department of justice not to enforce it. and were i, in donald trump's group of advisers, i might suggest the latter rather than the former. and here's why. it's not clear to me that a president does have authority through an executive order to basically make a lawfully the supreme court. >> i mean, wouldn't joe biden have done that with the abortion ruling if the president had that sort of authority, if the

president had that sort of authority? >> there are all sorts of rulings that joe biden would have done. but think about it this way. there are laws on the books of congress that various administrations don't enforce. the comstock act is a really good example. passed in 1873. there are some who interpret it to prohibit the mailing of abortion medications, for example. but we know at the same time that the fda has approved the lawful use of medication abortion. and the comstock act was not enforced by the biden administration after roe v wade fell. that is a good illustration of the discretion that's afforded to presidents and their departments of justice. >> what's different there is that this was a federal law we're talking about. and i guess the president, even if he wanted to overrule the abortion stuff, he can't go state by state. if he wanted to say that he wanted to issue an executive order saying that he's not going to enforce that ban, i want to talk about the national security threats here, because i remember when this thing was being debated, pretty much everybody or most lawmakers bipartisan, were saying, no way, we can't do this. joe biden signed it. i mean, we can't allow tiktok to

continue operating as it is. they can get so much data. also, the mass manipulation aspect of it. i don't think it's discussed enough. the president signed it. donald trump at one point thought tiktok was terrible as well. and now i'm just so confused because president biden is now saying he doesn't really agree with this, even though he signed it. you have a number of democratic lawmakers who are siding with donald trump, who is now saying that they believe that the app should survive. what happened to the national security concerns? >> well, let's take a little walk down memory lane and history lane here. >> i'll read you a couple of quotes. >> we're talking about a matter of risk here. >> it means the ability to control the software, which gives the opportunity to technically compromise the devices, the phones, millions and millions of phones. >> so we have to sort of step back and say, who is tiktok effectively? >> this person said, it's the chinese government. >> who is that person? >> fbi director christopher wray to lester holt april 23rd, 2024. >> jake sullivan, national security advisor to the president of the united states

joe biden. >> just last month, our intelligence professionals, our national security professionals, not the politician. the professionals have looked at this and have seen the national security risk. and then the person who painted, in his own words, maybe one of the most stark potential challenges with this app. the data collection threatens to allow the chinese communist party access to americans personal and proprietary information, potentially allowing china to track the locations of federal employees and contractors, build dossiers of personal information for blackmail, and conduct corporate espionage. that's donald j. trump signing an executive order about tiktok, august 2020. so those are the things that these individuals have said, katie, you might ask? well, in the last 48 hours, has anything changed on this? is xi jinping come out and change the laws of china? is there anything that our national and foreign intelligence agencies have come up with that has changed the picture? the answer to that question is absolutely not, because, you know, i've spoken to them. >> so i had congressman jim

himes on yesterday, and he's the ranking member of house intel. he voted no on this ban. he's a member of the gang of eight. he's seen more intelligence and than pretty much anybody in terms of the lawmakers and the politics side of things. here's why. he here's how he explained his initial no vote to me in virtue of my fact as ranking my position as ranking member of the intelligence committee. >> and i make no bones. and i'm not naive at all about what the chinese might try to do. it is also true that to date, the chinese have never used tiktok to try to influence an american election or to try to influence an american individual. now, by the way, we have a much larger conversation to be had about social media's impact on american individuals. but but the bottom line for me, and the reason i was a hard no on that bill, was that the federal government has no business, no business telling the american people, the citizens of this country that, sorry, you don't get to read this media. you don't get to hear this idea. you don't get to use this platform.

>> great. >> so the way that i push back on that is this is not a they've said it's not a free speech issue. >> they just sell the app. the speech is not the problem here. it's not what people are saying on tiktok. it's the way that they can gather up all of our personal information. >> but i was still surprised to hear that argument from a member of the gang of eight. >> glenn. >> so it's absolutely true that the app presents a significant potential risk. and that's what congress has talked about. and that's what the government in its briefs and the supreme court talked about, which is the potential risk of two things. one, covertly manipulating content on tiktok. take, for example, the possibility of president xi decides he wants to invade taiwan in a few months and maybe starts giving instructions to the chinese communist party, to bytedance to cause the app to slowly have videos that sort of favor the communist party's perception of this. and against taiwan color the american people's view of this. you can envision that

that's one. and the second is siphoning off user data of individuals who use tiktok and sending that to beijing, either for ai training purposes or to build dossiers on people. so those are the risks. they're very they're real risks. but interestingly enough, as the congressman just said in the clip, you just showed, neither one of them has in fact materialized. and the supreme court said even though these risks have not materialized, in fact, we're going to accept congress's and the executive's position on this, that just the potential of that is enough to support this. >> there's a study that that has been done on the perceptions of users on tiktok toward china. >> this was done in rutgers by a professor at rutgers, in coordination with a with a journal. and they said that they had seen a noticeable change in the warmth that that users felt toward china. and they point to a number of videos that the perceptions of the generation below my generation, generation, i guess z and maybe younger millennials is much warmer than

in generations past. and they're worried that i think the broader worry is that it does change. if americans change their perceptions of china, china will feel it as more leverage to do things like invade taiwan. tom, speak on that. >> yeah. >> i mean, i think that's a huge component of this, right? so there's really two buckets when we talk about tiktok, the first one, and i'll get to it in a second. the personal information on the algorithm side, it's not just issues on taiwan because obviously that's a huge component of this. right? and what china ultimately wants to do with taiwan in our perceptions here in the united states towards taiwan and whether or not we want to, if china does invade, actually involve members of the us military in defending taiwan, that could be a potentially huge issue. and that issue may not be as far off as some people believe. so that's that's that. but there are other issues that impact china. we saw the way tiktok reflected certain things with respect to the various wars around the world. and so is there any sort of manipulation as far as what is in china's interest, not necessarily just taiwan or issues closer to home?

the second issue is we've had a debilitating telecommunications attack in the last couple of months that got the call records of the president elect of the united states. to be sure, the united states is definitely trying to do that type of work to foreign leaders abroad. that's that's what it is. but china is doing this actively in is aggressive in this space in hacking and getting that content and the ability for them to target one day. katy tur, who might want to do a story on china, use any sort of information that might be in your past myself. that's the type of thing that they have the ability to do in the guardrails within their society are not nearly what they are. >> three things there's getting into our communications, as you just mentioned, being able to hack into the president elect's communications. they're now sitting in our power grid, our reservoirs, our water systems. >> and then if you add this all around military bases and if you add i guess if you add this aspect of software, this manipulation of our opinions, i, i don't know, i mean, i'm not a

national security expert, but when you take those three together, i think as an american i would be concerned. >> jake, i'm going to go to you in a second. brian, on on what's next. but, jake, i want to get the opinion of congress because they were pretty overwhelmingly on on board with this ban before. is that still the case? >> yes, i think well, i think, katie, we wrote about this at the top of punchbowl news am this morning. >> there does seem to be an appetite to give tiktok a little bit more time to find a buyer. what's interesting to me is that is that the bytedance, tiktok's parent company, has effectively said, we're not selling. we'll see if that sticks. but even chuck schumer said it makes good sense to give a 90 day extension to see if there is a deal. the question is from a legal point of view, and you guys talked about at the top whether he could do something. trump could do something by executive order. i don't know about that, but trump does not come into office until january 20th, and this decision has to be made by

january 19th. 19 comes before 20. but i talked to marco rubio today in the capitol, and he said he seemed to think that trump could still extend this for 90 days. i don't know, this is a law. it's on the books. it's been signed by the president or by president biden. so i don't know exactly what he's what he's what he's thinking about. but by and large, people are still. jim himes. katie, i want to make this clear to you. and i think you said this. he's in the vast minority, the overwhelming minority of people on capitol hill who increasingly say publicly it doesn't make any sense for the united states to allow a foreign government to be on everyone's cell phone, siphoning, potentially siphoning off information. and congress should have a should protect the american people and american interests against that. >> lisa, on what jake was mentioning, there is a 90 day period embedded in the law itself, but it's not a 90 day pause for any and all reasons. >> it's if the president can certify that there is a buyer

lined up and that legal documents have in fact been signed, and all it's going to take is some time to essentially execute that transaction, you can pause the impact of the ban for that 90 days, but it's not as if you can say, i want 90 days just to figure this out and scramble. that's not when you can put that 90 day period into a lot of time to find a buyer. >> there are buyers out there that are interested but they don't want to sell. and the ceo has said this. i've heard him say it to me directly. i'm not going to sell tiktok. so if they're not going to sell it, are they really going to go dark on sunday? >> yeah, i mean, it was a game of chicken over whether or not they would sell going up until the supreme court decision. i mean, tiktok was basically lobbying and trying to bank on the supreme court or some court ruling in their favor. that's why they decided not to really advance any sort of substantial sale talks. now, this could change the game here, especially given that it is in the statute which was upheld by the supreme court that if there is a, quote, qualified divestiture, then that could allow tiktok to continue operating in the united states,

essentially as is. but what would a qualified divestiture be? lisa and i were looking over the statute language earlier. it doesn't necessarily have to be a wholesale 100% sale to one person. it could be a sale of a 2,025% stake. in which case could trump, once he is in office on monday, negotiate something like that to an elon musk to anybody else? and then he could put the stamp on on this and say, this is a qualified divestiture. in my view, tiktok could continue to operate, even with the concerns that doing so would not do anything to alleviate the national security information about what the app stores might do, because they have a they face a pretty hefty fine per user if they keep it as a download or as an update. yeah, and that's the mechanics of the law. is that essentially a company like apple or google would be punished starting on january 19th if they offer the tiktok app on the app store, if they allow people to update the app. now, here's the question, though. we have the biden administration saying on the record that they won't levy those fines on sunday because

they want to basically pass on the statutory hot potato to the trump administration on the 20th. so if that is the case, if you're a general counsel at apple and google, are you saying, i'm just going to take them on their word that we're not going to get these billion dollars in fines? that is a very, very big question, not just on sunday, but beyond as well. >> how much, jake, does the public outcry on this matter? i mean, if you are over the age of 30, you're not as likely to be on the app. but if you're under the age of 30, i think 60% of americans are, have used or are on the app and, you know, know it pretty regularly. there's people that i talk to that are that are furious about this ban. you can see it on the app itself. people are really upset and they say they'd rather be. they'd rather have the app as is, rather have china look at all their information. they don't care. and they're and they're trying to be loud about it. they're trying to tell congress it matters a lot, to be honest with you. >> let's just be clear. i mean, these are people whose jobs are

given to them every 2 or 6 years by constituents who have a opinions on a whole host of matters. tiktok being one. but one of the most interesting things i'd say, katie, is they have not made this an i like to look at dance videos on tiktok, so keep it open. they have made this a. there are people on tiktok who are earning a living by being on tiktok and marketing their material, or selling t shirts or baked goods, and there are, you know, i so this is not this has become a jobs issue, not a, a entertainment issue. and that has been a smart move by tiktok. and i think a lot of the lobbying effort was pretty shaky at the beginning. they had people going up there saying, i'm worried about my mental health if tiktok gets gets banned. but now they're mostly saying this is something, this is a means by which i make a living. don't take that away from me, brian. yeah, i think

that to jake's point there and you kind of touched on this earlier with the concerns over whether or not people who are on tiktok would be more likely to have a favorable view of the chinese government. there's almost this irony in the fact that the law and the statute is trying to stop that from happening, but the backlash among people who are active users of tiktok is kind of going the other way, something that was trending based off of looking at tiktok in the past few days was this meme of me to my chinese spy, we have to part ways. and it was like dance videos. i mean, it was going viral. so there is almost now this sympathy among tiktok users in the united states with the chinese government because they oppose the glen. >> one more to you. even if you're not on tiktok, your information might be scooped up by china because why? >> look, china has extensive surveillance capabilities, but if you're on tiktok, if, say, my say you have a kid that's on tiktok, they're able to access all of the contacts. so by default, if you have tiktok on your phone, it has the ability

to access all your contacts, get your contact list. now, you can change it in settings, so they can't do that. but tiktok is a big data vacuum, as i might add, are most of the other social media apps, facebook, etc. so they're not unique in that, but they are certainly very strong in collecting information about what websites you've seen, yourn potentially. so it's a it's a significant amount of data. >> i feel like we don't have a good control over any of these apps or any of our data or this new world that we're living in. >> this, this, this case shows us that we really still don't have a real good, integrated, comprehensive way of dealing with social media. we're still figuring out figuring it out a little bit, bit by bit, piece by piece, whack a mole. and more broadly, on the question of chinese technology generally, which is going to be a defining issue for the next decade, we have not yet figured out as a society what the risks and rewards are. we want all the internet of things devices that come from china. they're cheap, they're accessible, they're great, and yet they do present these risks. so we have not sorted that out. >> yeah, it feels like we're

constantly trying to catch up to a world that's changing more rapidly than we can figure out how to how to put the guardrails around it. for lisa rubin, brian chung, tom winter, glen gerstle, jake sherman, everybody, thank you so much for joining us on this monster a block today. still ahead, the cease fire has to clear one more hurdle. so what will happen sunday if it does? plus, broken and dysfunctional is how governor kristi noem described the department of homeland security. but will she really be in charge of dhs? totally, if she gets confirmed? and later on, what new risk angelenos are facing now at the firefighter? the fires are starting to get under fires are starting to get under control. we are back in 90s. prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water, and for zero heartburn 1 prilosec a day... beats taking up to 10 antacids a day. it's that simple, for 24 hour heartburn relief...

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hours. as you said, the security cabinet, which is prime minister netanyahu and his closest security advisers, something that is mainly focused on the war in gaza, already approved this deal. the israeli intelligence, intelligence and military have already approved it. now it is just going to the wider government itself. they are also expected to approve it. but there is quite a bit of politicking going on right now. >> this is a parliamentary system. >> it is not a presidential system. prime minister netanyahu is just that he is the prime minister, but he exists because he has been able to form a coalition. and that coalition can, can, can go away. certain parties can form together and oppose him. that doesn't seem like it is happening right now, even if some of the far right members of his government who have been threatening to resign say they will resign if this deal goes forward. even if they did, he would probably have the

support of other members of the cabinet, other political parties to keep the government afloat, to keep him in office. but now they are they are doing a bit of horse trading. they are discussing the implications of this, of this deal, because they are going to have to go back to their individual communities and explain it. the members of the far right, some of them live on settlements and israeli settlers. jewish settlers do not support this in general, because they think it lets hamas off too early. some of them would like to resettle gaza with jewish settlements, so there's a bit of deal making going on right now behind closed doors. but but as you said at the top, this deal is expected to pass. it is expected to begin on sunday, but that is really just the start of a process. it is a very fragile ceasefire and the rollout is very slow, with only three female hostages, three female civilian hostages expected to be released on sunday, and then another four potentially other

females a week after that. so it is quite a slow process and quite a few things could go wrong. i was just talking to a relative of one of the hostages who is expected to be released. not on the first day, perhaps not on the on the a week later, but in the first six weeks. and he was describing to me how agonizing it is for the families to be to be talking to each other, trying to figure out who they think is going to be coming out first, who will have to wait for the next round, and then let alone the other families who are not among the first 33 expected to be released in batches over the first six weeks. and then in gaza, the wait is equally agonizing and the conditions are radically different. gaza has been leveled by this 15 month war. the conditions. it is very cold. you can see how i'm dressed here in jerusalem at night. it is very cold. in gaza, people are living in tents. they don't have much access to food,

to water. we were filming earlier today. our crew, i should say, in gaza, was filming earlier today at a food shelter. it was crammed. the conditions were were appalling and people say they need relief. they cannot continue to survive like this for much longer. >> they needed to stop. richard engel, thank you very much. joining us now, senior fellow at the carnegie endowment for international peace and former arab-israeli negotiator at the state department, aaron david miller. i'm curious about this phased deal and why it has to be phased, because it seems like, given the suffering that gazans are experiencing, and given what is likely to be told by the hostages that are released of the horrors that they experienced, it feels like it is a very tenuous deal and that anything can derail it at any moment. why not get it done all at once? >> well, thanks for having me, katie. >> it is the israeli-palestinian conflict, after all, and based on the last 20 years of

participating in negotiations, even longer phases are a function of mistrust, fundamental suspicion, and on the israeli side, to be sure, israeli politics. so the notion of an all for all release, all of the hostages, the 65 half of whom the israelis believe are probably no longer alive, primarily soldiers that hamas will retain at the end of this six week period in exchange for large numbers. and there will be large numbers of palestinian prisoners released, would seem to make sense, certainly for the hostages and their families and for the long suffering palestinian civilian population of gaza. >> it's just not in the nature of negotiations between israelis and palestinians. >> it's performance. it's fundamental mistrust and suspicion. and there's never been a way around this. each

party is taking tentative steps in an effort to test the seriousness and the credibility of the other. and i have to say, my thoughts now turn to the fact that this really is about human beings in this conflict has been driven by so much trauma, human loss and suffering. this is a bright moment. it is a moment for the hostages and their families, not for the ones of the 33 who are no longer alive, whose bodies will be returned. and hamas is going to announce that probably the day sunday, the day when the three women female soldiers are released and surging palestinian assistance to palestinians into gaza. six week cease fire, something the palestinians have never experienced since october 7th. but again, it's a tentative first step. but it's a step we'll see. >> it is a step. what's your expectation about the surrounding nations and how they're going to get involved?

how involved will egypt be in keeping this going? how involved will qatar be? do you expect at some point saudi arabia to get more involved in trying to keep the stability going in order to advance its goals of a more stable and more profitable region? >> i mean, it's a key point, katie, because it raises the question of who's going to facilitate broker press each side to maintain their commitments. you know, for the egyptians. geography is destiny. they have a security interest, a political interest, perhaps far more than any other arab state, given the proximity of egypt to gaza, given the realities that the muslim brotherhood was opposed by the current military government in egypt, that hamas is essentially a palestinian manifestation of the brotherhood, an islamist movement with authoritarian tendencies, to be sure. so egypt will be involved. clearly, other than israel, it controls land

borders for entrance and exits from gaza. the qataris will continue to serve, i think, as a sort of way station, so that the external leadership, which is not the internal leadership, the external leadership, doesn't have control over hostages, doesn't have control over military force. but the qataris will prove to be a place and a country where indirect negotiations between israelis and hamas and the americans will continue to take place. the saudis will be more standoffish and will wait to see exactly whether this deal is going to come to fruition. they will be the object, of course, of the president elect's intentions. >> all right, aaron david miller, we will all cross our fingers that we make it to sunday. still ahead. what kristi noem couldn't quite answer today during her confirmation hearing for dhs secretary. we'll tell you what she said. and people in

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opinion. hey, download the app. >> prize picks run your game. >> the first week of confirmation hearings is over, with likely confirmations lining up for all of the nominees who have appeared so far. that does include south dakota governor kristi noem, donald trump's pick for homeland security secretary, who took questions this morning on donald trump's plans to overhaul the southern border. but when it came to questions on who would actually be in charge of implementing trump's biggest immigration promises like mass deportation, deportations, no waffled nbc news homeland security correspondent julie ainslie has more. >> i'm here in harlingen, texas, right outside an airport where they do deportation flights, usually seeing about three a week from this airport returning migrants to their home

countries. this area could get a lot busier in the next few weeks as trump takes office and tries to make good on that promise for mass deportations. the question is who is ultimately responsible for that policy and for securing the southern border? kristi noem went before the senate homeland security committee today and said president trump will ultimately be responsible for the border. but the question is who will make decisions, whether it be nome or tom homan, who trump appointed to be border czar. homan has said he will be in charge of the border. noem was asked about how exactly these two are going to figure out who's in charge. here's what she had to say. >> tom and i work very well together and talk and communicate all the time, and we'll be working together on a daily basis when we're in our positions under the new administration. and, and i would say there's no authorities being planned to be taken away from the department or, or myself if i'm in the role. >> and those questions came from democratic senator andy kim, who raised the question because he says it's important for the committee to be able to hold

someone accountable. they can't call homan before their committee for oversight questions or get answers from him like they could from homeland security, because their committee has jurisdiction over dhs. so there are a lot of questions about how all this will play out and who will ultimately be accountable. >> very interesting. julia ainsley, thank you very much. and still ahead, the dodgers have opened up their home to angelenos in need. we're going to go live to dodger stadium to show you what's happening. and what exactly does law of the land mean? president biden made a surprising declaration today. a surprising declaration today. what one senator says it let's monopoly go! hehe. chris! keke! ready tycoons? it's go time! cash grab! keke, i won again? ow! daddy will be back soon. [cries] -ha ha! -boom! we're swimming in it now. -rent's due. -toodle-oo!

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that's something i want to believe. [skateboard sounds] now there is a new risk for everybody involved. mudslides. this home right here survived the fires, only to be split in half by runoff from the enormous amount of water dropped to fight the fires. joining us now to talk a little bit more about the recovery effort and all the folks involved is nbc news correspondent ellison barber, who's at dodger stadium for us. ellison. we want to bring us to bring our viewers to a bit of a happier note. and the outpouring of support from the folks in los angeles has been just so tremendous. >> yeah. >> i mean, look, katie, this is an event that's organized by the

los angeles dodgers and 12 other l.a. sports teams. the line of people waiting to get in and get help, it is thousands of people. we are with the national nonprofit baby to baby. >> and i actually want to introduce you to some friends i've made here because they have five different boots. >> baby to baby does. >> one of them is a toy shop. >> these are my new friends mason, mateo, and mila, and they just went shopping for toys. right. and. and riley. >> where's riley and riley? oh, there's riley. >> where's mila? okay, show us what you guys got. >> what'd you get? i got the. >> baby yoda and the baby yoda and avengers. >> what did you get, guys? >> you did? what did you get, riley? i got hatchimals and this. >> this. oh, mila, what about you? disney? >> like all sorts of toys. >> good rhyme. >> good job. yes. >> okay. good job, you guys. thank you. >> so these are some of the folks we met. their dad was telling me they are in an evacuation zone. >> they haven't been able to be

home at all. >> and this today was a chance to give their kids a little bit of normalcy. so baby to baby, one of the nonprofits that's here, they have five different booths. this one they call the toy store. >> they are a national nonprofit, and they primarily focus on delivering aid essentials diapers to children who live in low income communities or in times of disaster like this. >> they're based in la, but they do this all over the world. >> and here, because of this event, they had the opportunity to set up these different booths, and they told us a really important thing for them. in addition to having something like this, which they call the toy shop, they literally tell kids, come in and shop and let them pick toys and give them a bag is because they're trying to make sure that people who need help in this time also feel like they can get it with dignity. so this is another station they have. this is for essential items. they're putting them in these bags and then giving them to people as they come through families, children that have been impacted by the wildfire come down here a little more with me and you'll see their other booth diapers. and actually here we have these are the two co-ceos, kelly sawyer

patricof and norah weinstein. you see the diapers they have in the back and how they have it set up. and they literally put everything in bags like this. they were talking to us about how whenever they're giving people help, they feel like it is really important that people don't feel like they are just showing up for charity or getting a handout, that they know that they see them as people and that they're able to get help with dignity. and part of that, they say, is trying to establish booths. i'm going to keep moving here that make it feel like they're shopping in a store. this right here, formula and food, all of it for kids. one of the things the co-ceos was telling me earlier is they said often when there's a disaster or people in need, the focus gets to be on adults, right? you see adult food, clothes, these are jackets for kids. their entire mission for this disaster and beyond is always to prioritize. children ages 0 to 12 because their needs are unique. and they say today, with the help of the dodgers, they had an opportunity to do that. and it's been amazing to see how many people are here. and this katie, it's going to go on for hours, but it is a glimmer of hope in all of the

chaos and destruction that there are people here wanting to help, and also here making sure the kids feel seen, specifically katie. >> yeah, that was nice. i was really happy to see the kids, the smile on those kids faces as they were picking up toys. it's little, but something. it's hard. and you really got to feel for the kids who have feel like they have no control. i mean, no one has really any control but the kids especially. ellison barber, thank you very much. and still ahead, do women have equal rights under the law? is it a constitutional guarantee? last night, president biden said yes, night, president biden said yes, but is it? don't what tractor supply customers experience is personalized service. made possible by t-mobile for business. with t-mobile's reliable 5g business internet. employees get the information they need instantly. this is how business goes further with t-mobile for business. (♪♪) years of hard work.

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-ha ha ha! -oh boy! yeah! money, power, friendship. let's go! three states to move ahead with another attempt to roll back federal rules on mifepristone and make it harder for people across the united states to access abortion. joining us now, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. lisa, thanks for coming back for us. this is this case is kind of funny. it's judge kazmarek again. what's going on? >> so you'll remember, katie, as our viewers hopefully will that the supreme court heard this case and over the summer came down with the decision saying that the plaintiffs who originally brought the case sort of vitiate the approval of the abortion medication, didn't have standing to bring that case. many people at the time said, okay, the court has punted, but at some point in time, this issue will likely come back to

it. and that's where we find ourselves now, a group of states led by missouri as well as kansas, i believe the third is indiana, are back before judge kazmarek saying, hey, if those guys don't have standing to bring this case, let us intervene, let us take over the case. and they don't want to challenge the original year 2000 approval of medication abortion. what they want to say instead is that some of the extensions that the fda gave, for example, you can now prescribe mifepristone versus, i'm sorry, telehealth, or you can do it at ten weeks versus seven and a half weeks. they say those extensions are what's unlawful here and that they deserve a right to challenge it. the drug manufacturer and the fda, for their part, said, hey, wait a second. what are you doing in a texas court? you have no business being here. judge kazmarek yesterday said we can get to that issue at another point in time. leave to amend or leave to bolster the complaint should be granted liberally. i'm going to give them a chance to come back, change the complaint,

just focus it on these issues and add what the state's promise is greater factual support. before i make that determination, the supreme court feel about this? well, i think it will be harder. remember the fifth circuit, which was the second court to take this up, said judge kazmarek was wrong when he said that the year 2000 approval should be vitiated. but he was right in defined, vitiated. i'm sorry he was wrong to say that the fda's approval was unlawful, that the original approval of mifepristone was unlawful. the fifth circuit disagreed with. but they did agree with judge kazmarek that all of the extensions that we were just talking about, prescribing mifepristone via telehealth, extending when into a woman's pregnancy, it could be prescribed from seven and a half weeks to ten weeks. they agreed with him there. the fifth circuit is a court that is one of the most conservative in the nation in terms of appeals courts. however, more often than

any other circuit in recent memory, at least in the last couple of years, they have been overturned, including, for example, in the mifepristone case where the court said, hey, wait a second. before we even reach the merits, we have to look at whether these plaintiffs actually had an injury that can be redressed through litigation. and they determined these guys, these doctors over here, they don't. so the states are going to take a second whack at it and try and see if they can't curtail mifepristone entirely, at least, can they really roll back its availability, including through prescription over telehealth? >> all right, lisa rubin, thank you very much. >> you're welcome. thanks. >> and going back to our top story today. tiktok. as we said before, an overwhelming number of lawmakers voted to ban it. and they did so because they're worried about national security issues. joining us now is a member of the senate intelligence committee to explain that vote, democratic senator from new york, kristen kristen gillibrand. thank you, senator, for being here. explain from your perspective, having seen intelligence on this why

this is a national security issue, the subject of tiktok, and i'm curious about why you believe it is because yesterday i had jim himes on. i know he's in the minority, but you know, he's a member of the gang of eight. and he said that this wasn't an intelligence concern for him, that the data is getting mopped up by all sorts of apps. >> well, my concern is this first, tiktok is an app that lots of people use, and they enjoy it and they love it. >> a lot of people get their news from it. >> a lot of people use it daily and it's fun. >> my young teenagers, kids, they love it. >> so the truth is, is that it's infrastructure. >> and when a foreign adversary owns your infrastructure, it means they can use it when they see fit, and they can use it in a way to harm the united states. i'll give you an example. >> there was a lot of discussion about huawei building people's telecommunications systems. >> well, if you own all the

telecommunications systems in a country or in our community or in a state or in a city, and you want to spy on those telecommunications and you want to take them down during a national emergency, you have that ability. tiktok is not that different. >> if we were at war over the issue of taiwan and china wanted to spread misinformation across the united states about the nature of that conflict or what was at risk, or, god forbid, emergency preparedness messaging, it could be devastating. >> and for a lot of young people, they get a lot of their news from tiktok alone. >> so really giving that amount of power to someone who is not typically our friend and could well become an adversary in the future, is deeply unwise. >> yeah. i'd like you to talk a little bit more about the manipulation factor here, and how the algorithm could be, in theory at least, tweaked to change public opinion.

>> so, for example, you know, we've had the war in ukraine, we've had the war in gaza. >> and if you ask a 16 year old, how much content do you see about the war in gaza? they'll say, i see something every day. and you say, do you see anything about ukraine? no. not really. do you see anything about yemen? >> no. >> do you see anything about somalia? no. do you know anything about somalia? no. >> because that content is something that russia, for example, would love the united states to focus only on the war in gaza and not focus on the war in ukraine as an as ally. >> china is an ally of russia. they can manipulate that algorithm to only show young people horrific content of the war in gaza, to have them absolutely focused steadfast on that one conflict worldwide, so that protests on every college campus. so there is no discussion of the death and destruction in ukraine, because that is what russia wants. that is a huge problem for us. and

the data shows content on tiktok with regard to gaza being pro gazan and pro-palestinian was something like 95%. so there's a reason why they're not getting content on any other conflict worldwide, or any other tragedy or horrific content, because many people, chinese russia would like us, focused on that conflict alone. it's just one example. >> i want to ask you about the other topic that president biden, or a topic that president biden made news on. i'm going to read it for time's sake. he said no one, no one, no one should be discriminated against based on their sex. and in order for the amendment, the equal rights amendment to be ratified requires three fourths of the states to ratify that benchmark. that benchmark was passed when virginia ratified the era a few years ago. today, i affirm the equal rights amendment to have cleared all the necessary hurdles to be added to the us constitution, he says. the equal rights amendment is the law of

the land. now, this is making sure that, you know, you and i, women are equal to men under the law, under the constitution. is it now constitutional? i mean, is this now something that is in our constitution because the president said it last night? >> it is. and the truth is, is that when the 38th state to ratify virginia did so in 2020, it should have been noticed to the american people that it is part of the constitution. but president trump was president, and so he created a legal fiction that it took too long to get done. it's not true. there's no timeline requirements in article five of the constitution. there's no requirement that things have to be done in a timely or short way. and the seven year deadline that was set in a preamble is not constitutionally operative. it's not relevant. and so what needed all this time was the fact that this has been accomplished, to be published, to be told to the states, to start enforcing this law. normally the archivist does

that, but the last two archivists refused to do their jobs and did not do so. so president biden decided, i'm going to as the commander in chief, as the highest legal authority in this administration will say so, so that the states can start enforcing this law. and so, by his statement today, he essentially published and gave notice to states that this is the law of the land. you need to look through all your laws to make sure you have nothing that undermines it. and it now gives a right of action to people across the united states who have been discriminated against on the basis of their gender, a right to sue. and that might that might include an equal pay lawsuit. it might include discrimination on a college campus about sports. it might include the parents who took a daughter, ten year old daughter across state lines and were denied their right to travel because of an abortion law. >> listen, i think people would be surprised to know that it wasn't a