ur life." dennis murphy: do you ever get up in the morning just shaking your fists in outrage at the heavens, "pedro, why did you do this to me?" not just christian is the victim. you've become a victim, too. erika friman: it's so difficult, sometimes to think of it that way. i would still give anything for christian to be here. there's not going to be another joke he tells or a smile i see when i look up from working or something. it's not going to happen again. they're just memories. craig melvin: that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. >> good morning and welcome to this saturday edition of morning joe weekend. it was a busy week, as we are now just days away

from donald trump's return to the oval office. let's get right to some of the conversations you might have missed. >> i'm curious what you thought. as a man who has known joe biden for many, many, many years, including through this presidency, what you saw on his face, what you heard in his voice last night. >> you i heard in his voice last night was a concern, a legitimate concern. he outlined a potential oligarchy trying to dominate politics and certainly dominating our economy. i mean, there were 25 billionaires in america ten years ago, and now there are like 250 or 300. extraordinary numbers. and i thought that the most maybe important line and the defining line for joe biden last night was toward the end of his speech, when he looked into the camera and having talked about all the dangers of excessive wealth, dominating politics and things like that, and the dominance of ai and unknown technical aspect of our

lives, that's going to increase its importance in our lives. when he said, now it's your turn to stand guard to the american public. and i think he really, really feels that that that's his signature. goodbye. stand guard. you know, i stood guard. and the metaphor, of course, of the statue of liberty withstanding centuries of storms in new york harbor, never falling, never failing. and now it's our turn as citizens to stand guard against these dangers that he outlined. i also think that the speech well given well, he delivered it quite well. when you read it, it's more lasting than the television address last night. it's a lasting speech. >> yeah. jonathan lemire, it was heavy. and for through large sections of it, with warnings about the future, warnings about where the country is beginning on monday, in fact, but going forward into the years as well. so what did president biden want

to accomplish with that speech last night, and how is he feeling? >> how is his team feeling? obviously, they would have loved to be sitting there going into a second term, but how is he feeling now as he hands the reins over to a man for whom he has, well, no affection, certainly, but perhaps very little respect even for donald trump? >> yeah, it's still a mix of emotions for the president and his team. >> there is still some frustration and anger about how his presidential run ended this past year. joe biden, the first lady, gave an interview to the washington post yesterday in which she made it clear they have not forgiven former house speaker nancy pelosi and pelosi's efforts to cut short his campaign and have the reigns his end before or after that debate in atlanta. they do think that last night they meant to do two different things, as we talked about in the first hour. a lot of it was really stark warnings for the future of the country, warning about the tech industrial complex, warning about oligarchs, saying, yes, it is indeed. now my journey here, 50 years in public service is

coming to an end. it is your turn to stand guard. you love this country like i do. but president biden also wanted to stress, i'm told his aides have said, his love for the institutions and the importance of them. look, he made clear last night that he thinks that his team deserves the lion's share of the credit for the ceasefire deal, saying this is basically the deal we struck in may and now it's just coming to an effect. his delivery. but he also because he prizes transition of power prizes the presidency. he did say peter baker that you know there was cooperation. he did say peter baker that he wanted the new president to succeed. now, that doesn't mean he wants him to be able to enact all of his agenda. he violently disagrees with most of donald trump's agenda, but he wants the country to succeed. and it was striking. as president biden exits the stage. now, at times of halting voice last night, his love for the country shone through time after time. >> yeah, and it was something of a panegyric to an era. of course, that's probably gone right, he said earlier in the day on his statement about gaza

that this is what americans do, right? >> we work with other americans we may disagree with on areas where we can get something done. he meant, of course, the trump administration on the gaza deal. >> he said on that one, at least, we are speaking with one voice. that's hard to imagine. but it's what he believes in. as you said, his love of institutions, his 50 year history in politics, coming to bear in this last days of his time in public office. but it feels like a, you know, a nod to the past. and he said it the other day about jimmy carter. he says, well, people say carter is from a bygone era. that's not true. i think he's speaking about himself, too, right? i'm not from a bygone era. he's trying to say the values that i learned as a young senator in the 1970s, he's telling us still apply today in the 2020s test is whether that's really true in an era of bombastic, polarized politics where, you know, you see what we see with the new administration. >> so as president biden said goodbye, we got another window yesterday into the future of the

trump administration on capitol hill, president elect trump's picks for attorney general and secretary of state were among those facing questions at senate confirmation hearings. nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles has a look at some of the key moments. >> a split screen moment on capitol hill with half a dozen high stakes confirmation hearings for president elect trump's cabinet picks, including his choice to lead the justice department. >> former florida attorney general pam bondi, who vowed to keep politics out of the prosecutorial process. >> there will never be an enemies list within the department of justice. >> bondi replaced trump's original choice for the job, former congressman matt gaetz, who withdrew when it was clear he could not win enough republican votes. >> bondi is expected to be confirmed by the republican senate. >> i'm glad he picked you. >> he knows you, he trust you, and you're highly qualified. >> but senate democrats grilling her over potential trump pardons for some january 6th participants. >> do you believe that those who have been convicted of the

january 6th riot, violent assaults on our police officers should be pardoned? that's a simple question. >> so, senator, i have not seen any of those files. >> but let me be very clear. in speaking to you, i condemn any violence on a law enforcement officer in this country. >> and this heated moment over trump's comments about liz cheney. >> i'm asking you sitting here today whether you are aware of a factual predicate to investigate liz cheney. >> senator, no one has asked me to investigate liz cheney. >> that is, the president has called for it publicly. you are aware of that, aren't you? >> no one has asked me to investigate. >> but the president has also worried president liz cheney. >> the president has called. >> we should be worried about miss bondi. >> please answer my questions. >> also expected to be confirmed florida senator marco rubio up for the post of secretary of state, saying he disagreed with the biden administration's decision to remove cuba from the list of state sponsors of terrorism. >> do you believe cuba is a state sponsor of terrorism?

>> without a question, we know that cuba has been friendly towards hamas and hezbollah openly. >> and rubio, forecasting the future trump administration's approach to ending the war in ukraine. >> it is important for everyone to be realistic. >> there will have to be concessions made by the russian federation, but also by the ukrainians and the united states that lends itself there. >> it's also important. that's nbc's ryan nobles with that report. >> let me just say that that last statement that marco rubio made. yeah, that's a statement that people inside the biden administration have been saying for two years, including former chairman of the joint chiefs, mark milley, who even two years ago said there going to have to be concessions made on both sides. and neither side is going to like the concessions that they're going to have to make. but that, yeah, that's usually how it works. >> joining us now, democratic senator richard blumenthal of connecticut. he is a member of the homeland security, armed services and judiciary committees. it's very good to have you on the show this morning, senator. >> always great to have you on

the show. you've written a letter regarding kash patel. it's interesting. >> last hour, jonathan and i were talking about pam bondi's hearing and said at times it seemed like the hearing was more about kash patel than pam bondi because several times pam bondi saying, i will not have an enemies list. >> there will be no enemies list. she was asked about the media. she said no member of the media will be arrested for being a member of the media and doing her job, but the questions kept going back to kash patel, someone who, if he were the fbi director, would obviously work under her. >> i'm curious your thoughts about that, your thoughts about kash patel and your concerns and why you wrote this letter, the reason for the letter. >> and thank you for having me to talk about it, is very simply to make my colleagues more aware of some of the really extremist views that he's expressed. his

adherence to qanon, his embrace of conspiracy theories, his statement that government undercover agents instigated and incited the january 6th insurrection and maybe most important, his determination to go after enemies, that is, political opponents, judges, media lawyers who he regards as advocates of opponents opposing political views. >> by the way, by the way, senator, it's important for our viewers to recognize that many on that so-called enemies list are actually republicans, republicans that donald trump appointed. >> that's absolutely right. bill barr, john bolton, many others. even if i disagree with them, i don't regard them as having any kind of criminal culpability. and i think it goes back to whether or not pam bondi is

willing and able to say no to donald trump. the question is not whether, but when. she will have to say no when he asks her to do something illegal or immoral. and kash patel is an agent of donald trump in trying to go after enemies. he's very explicitly listed them. they include republicans. but most important, he can ruin lives and essentially endanger the country. in an organization that has immense power, the fbi. so, senator, we should also just note that pam bondi yesterday said she wasn't aware of any kash patel enemies list. again, he wrote it down. it's actually in his book there in the black and white. so let's let's spin this forward a little bit then, from what you heard from attorney general candidate bondi, do you have confidence on two things? do you have confidence that first, she will be able to rein in kash patel? and secondly, the question you just posed, would she will she say no to donald trump? i have

no confidence whatsoever that she will be able to restrict kash patel, the position of director is supposed to be independent. she has limited kinds of resources to rein him in, and he can start investigation without even informing her office about beginning them. and second, on her independence. i think that's the key question that you've raised, and i have no confidence that she will refuse to put donald trump ahead of the american people. she has to be the people's lawyer. she has to tell truth to power. >> we'll have much more of morning joe weekend after the break. >> safelite repair safelite replace. >> nobody likes a cracked windshield. but at least you can go to safelite. com and schedule

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to fight the incoming trump administration. >> donald trump wants a presidential cabinet full of loyalists. don't miss the weekend, saturday and sunday mornings at 8:00 on msnbc. >> the second inauguration of donald trump morning joe kicks off coverage. then, at 10 a.m, rachel maddow and team will bring you key moments of the day, followed by analysis from our primetime anchors as the new term begins monday beginning at 6:00 on msnbc. >> so admiral peter baker has written about the historic nature of this alliance between an incoming president and an

outgoing president, two presidents who, you know, probably aren't going to be spending a lot of time golfing or at thanksgiving dinners together. i mean, but it is extraordinary, and historians certainly will want to look back and see how this developed. can you give us any insights on this historic deal? >> this really has to do with innocent lives, joe. >> it's american hostages that need to be back with their families, hostages from all their different countries, and of course, palestinians in gaza who literally have been living through hell. >> and president biden and president elect trump shared that same passion, shared that same goal, that what matters here isn't politics. what matters is getting these hostages home and getting this war ended. they shared that goal and they directed their teams to work in concert with one another. and that's exactly what we've been doing. the american people have to expect that from us, and we're glad that we were able to help deliver on it.

>> admiral. good morning. we're happy to see you again today. you know, there are, of course, skeptics just because of the nature of the relationship between israel and hamas, a terrorist organization. skeptics on the israeli side, many americans who say a deal with a terrorist death cult effectively is no deal at all. so what gives you confidence that hamas will hold up its end of the bargain here, because they are in a much degraded position than they were back in may, when the president first laid this framework on the table. >> this is not the same hamas. they have been decimated, leaders taken off the off the battlefield tunnels, destroyed, infrastructure gone, sinwar dead. they are also more isolated in the region. iran's not coming to their help. they're also much more degraded because of israeli actions and because the united states helped defend israel against two cruise and missile strikes. and hezbollah is not going to be the cavalry for hamas anymore, because the united states brokered a cease fire between israel and hezbollah. so as hamas looks out upon the region, they see they're all by

themselves. they see they're much weaker. and that's really what brought them to the table. >> admiral, first of all, a point of personal privilege here as you end your tour of duty at the white house, would just like to tell you that the truth and facts are going to miss you. and we thank you for your service at this time. the question i have for you is, what's the biggest point of peril in phase two of this agreement? >> the biggest point of peril in phase two is actually getting to phase two. mike. as you know, phase one is six weeks. we get a cease fire. we get humanitarian assistance in, we get those hostages back home. but as that all happens, the two sides have got to negotiate for the start of phase two. and in phase two you get an end to the war, you get additional hostages released. but it's going to be the work that's done in these first six weeks. and that's why president biden was so adamant with jake sullivan and brett mcgurk and the entire national

security team here that we had to bring mr. witkoff in. we had to bring the trump team in so that they had full knowledge of what the implementation details were, because they're going to be responsible for getting us to phase two. >> admiral. good morning, jonathan lemire. we all echo mike's words to you just now. you mentioned iran and how it has been weakened. talk to us about what this new administration coming in just in a few days time, what are the opportunities and also challenges facing the trump team in the middle east, and particularly when it regards to the future of iran? >> well, they are coming in with an iran that's much weaker. in fact, all of our adversaries are weaker because of the foreign policy that joe biden has, has implemented and executed over the last four years. we have kept the pressure up on iran. iran is weaker. i think one of the things that we are talking to the trump team about, one of the things i think they've got to continue to watch is as iran becomes weaker, do they try to lash out in some way? and one of the ways in which and we all have to watch this is their continual continual potential

interest here in developing nuclear weapons. now, we're not seeing that they've made that final step, but they certainly have kept the centrifuges running, and they certainly haven't walked back any proclivity to maybe move in that direction. as president biden said, we're going to do everything we can to prevent that from happening. the new team is going to have to watch that very, very closely. they are closer in breakout time now, jonathan, than they were when we took office, because the iran deal had pushed that breakout time months and months over a year. now it's really a matter of weeks. and so that's something that they're going to have to watch closely as we look, admiral, at the big picture, one of the central criticisms of donald trump during the campaign, and now we've heard after his reelection, was that the world was a safer place under him. >> and it became more dangerous under president biden. if you look at what's happened with israel and gaza, if you look at what's going on in ukraine, russia's invasion, and on and on down the road, how would you respond to that in these final days of your administration about where the world is as president biden leaves office? >> i would say three things.

one, our allies and partnerships are stronger than ever. we're where alliances didn't exist. to solve a problem, joe biden created alliances and partnerships. the 50 nations that are supporting ukraine, 20 nations that are helping us defend shipping in the red sea and the alliances that did exist. he made stronger japan, south korea, the philippines, nato, now two nations, two nations bigger than it was when we took office. number two, our adversaries are weaker. we've already talked about iran. russia is absolutely weaker than it was when we took office. they've had now 700,000 casualties in this three year war with ukraine. the ruble's crashing. they're on a wartime economy. they're reaching out to places like north korea and iran to help them fight this war. russia is on its back foot. and china we are outpacing china. there were predictions that the chinese economy was going to surpass us by 2030. well, now the predictions are they're never going to surpass us if they stay on the on the course that they're on. and because we've shored up our alliances in the indo-pacific, china knows

that america means business when it comes to peace and security in that part of the world. so again, i think in every aspect we have made america stronger. the last thing, of course, is all the other all the other elements of national power. joe biden has improved, including our economy, best economy in the world. every other nation wants to have an economy like ours. >> white house national security communications adviser and assistant to the president, retired rear admiral john kirby. thank you and thank you for your service. we have so much respect and admiration for you. thank you. >> up next here, we'll dig into report in the new york times about how climate change is supercharging disasters like these fires we've been seeing in los angeles. we'll talk with the coauthor of that piece straight ahead here on morning joe. ahead here on morning joe. weekend. sore throat got your tongue? mucinex instasoothe sore throat medicated drops, uniquely formulated for rapid relief that lasts and lasts. that's my babyyy!

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different person. >> get growing at nutrafol. >> com. >> are you overwhelmed with identity management in the context of omnipresent threats to your organization? hi. >> so no one knows what that means. >> what's happening? >> just explain. i want to help secure digital identity. >> keep it simple. >> like what? >> like when delivering a fresh uniform or viewing your results. >> yeah. it's bad. >> or making bread swoon at the high school reunion. >> oh, i love that color. whoo! that was a lot. >> oh, there's more, like, lots more. >> the new york times has a new piece out about how climate change is supercharging

disasters like these fires we're seeing out in los angeles. the report reads, in part, this way as los angeles burned for days on end, horrifying the nation, scientists made an announcement on friday that could help explain the deadly conflagration. 2024 was the hottest year in recorded history, with temperatures rising around the globe and the ocean's unusually warm. scientists are warning that the world has entered a dangerous new era of chaotic floods, storms and fires made worse by human caused climate change. the firestorms ravaging the country's second largest city are just the latest spasm of extreme weather that is growing more furious, as well as more unpredictable. joining us now coauthor of that piece, david gellis. he is a reporter on the new york. reporter on the new york times climate team. david, thank you for being with us this morning. so tell us more about this piece and what you found in terms of how climate change played a role here, what we've

seen out in southern california, but how it is poised to do so with increasing frequency with disasters around the globe. this is just what scientists have been warning about for years and even decades. as the planet warms as a result of continued emissions from fossil fuels, from agriculture, from just normal life that humans have to keep doing at this point until we make a full transition to cleaner energy, the planet's just getting hotter. we now know that 2024 was indeed the hottest year in recorded history, but that's no surprise. before that, 2023 was the hottest year in recorded history, and each of the ten hottest years on record have come in the last decade. we map that against the increase in severe and as you said, unpredictable natural disasters. and that leads directly to the kinds of fires we're seeing in los angeles right now. >> you know, this seems like a good time to repeat a story that i have repeated oftentimes during catastrophic storms. and

that is when i was with a friend 7 or 8 years ago, a republican who i think is probably never voted for a democrat once in his life. he works at his insurance company. he's in charge of, you know, the actuarial tables and, you know, one of the top leaders there trying to predict how much money they're going to be paying out. and he was complaining about all the money being paid out for natural disasters. i said, is there is climate change a reason? and he just scoffed. and he said, look at these numbers. you would have to be a fool to not understand what climate change is doing to this country and the world. and david, i want to along that line, i want to read here seven years later, what you write that lines up exactly with what he told me several years ago. wildfires are burning hotter and moving faster. storms are growing bigger and carrying more moisture, and soaring temperatures worldwide are leading to heat wave and drought, which can be devastating on their own and leave communities vulnerable to

dangers like mudslides and the heavy rain around the globe. extreme weather and searing heat killed thousands of people last year, displaced millions, with pilgrims dying as temperatures soared in saudi arabia. in europe, extreme heat contributed to at least 47,000 deaths in 2023. and here's a key line regarding trends in the united states. heat related deaths have doubled in recent decades. for those who say there have always been heat waves, there have always been mudslides. there have always been fires. yes, they have. but, david, as you report here, as my friend in the insurance industry, republican friend told me, yes, they have, but not at this extreme level. >> and here's another way to think about it. billion dollar disasters, natural disasters that inflict a billion or more dollars or more of damage used to come just a few times a year

in a country like the united states. now they're coming as many as a couple times a month, and we see it not just in los angeles. but let's not forget lahaina and the fires in hawaii just a couple years ago. before that, it was paradise, california. it was santa rosa, california. fires took out whole neighborhoods in colorado not long ago. and those are just the fires. it was just months ago that the southeast was dealing with hurricanes helene and milton. and all of these disasters are exactly what scientists have warned are going to get more extreme as the planet keeps warming, as temperatures keep rising, and as the atmosphere holds more moisture. >> well, and david, you're exactly right. what's happening in california is happening in florida because of extreme temperatures. i mean, i followed hurricanes across the south and in florida for almost my entire

life because i've lived here and the water is hotter than it's ever been. and we had a after after florida survived, just barely got through one hurricane. we saw something. i've never seen. the hurricanes usually go across the atlantic, and then they cut up into the gulf, or they cut across the atlantic here out of nowhere, just just to the east of mexico. i think it was milton. you had a hurricane, a cat five hurricane. i believe it was form right in the middle of the gulf and then shot straight toward tampa again. again, that's something i've never seen. and the fact that it was that extreme again, horrifying to florida residents, regardless of their political ideology, and that's that unpredictability that we've already talked about. >> and here's another almost counterintuitive way that weather, and especially large storms are starting to behave in the new era of climate change. and that's that some of these

large storms are actually moving slower. so once they get over land and they have all that moisture, they actually start slowing down and just keep dumping rain on these vulnerable communities, which is yet another way that communities are having to grapple with this unpredictable, climate fueled weather. and just as we're seeing in los angeles, where there's only so much you can do to prepare for a firestorm when the winds are gusting at 100 miles an hour, there's only so much you can do to prepare when it starts dumping a foot or more of rain in a day. that's the world we're in, thanks to climate change. now our next guest is defending partizanship and explains why he believes it could be central to progress for both political parties. we'll be right back with that. you're right back with that. you're watching morning ♪♪ grandma! i heard someone is playing a stegosaurus in her school play! ♪♪

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>> israel and hamas will enter a cease fire in the nation's capital. philadelphia and el paso. >> the palisades from msnbc world headquarters. >> each week on my podcast, i'm joined by uniquely qualified guests who help me take a big picture look at the issues like representative jasmine crockett, late night host seth meyers, former attorney general eric holder, and many more. >> why is this happening? listen now. >> you know, people talk about the tea party and you talk about marginalizing. at least i have a microphone where i can fight back. you people don't. the tea party people are incredible people. these are people that work hard and they love the country. and then they get just beat up all the time by the media. it's disgusting. and you will be surprised how big you are. you don't know how big you are. you don't know the power that you have. i mean it. >> that was then candidate donald trump nearly a decade ago, in the summer of 2015, courting the tea party vote in the 2016 republican primary. trump's combative style appealed

to large swaths of the republican electorate and continues to do so, especially those of the tea party movement back then who saw no value in compromising with democrats, even with some of their fellow republicans. our next guest argues, in order to heal the partizan wounds inflamed by trump and the tea party, the united states must further embrace partizanship. let's bring in professor of history and public affairs at princeton university, julian zelizer. he's the author of the new book titled in defense of partizanship. professor, it's great to have you back at the table with us. thanks for having me. i would add in a word that you repeat many times in the book, which is responsible partizanship. so what does that look like for people? we were just discussing kids in particular, who grew up in this age of trump, where it's all about partizanship and combativeness and insults and grievance. what is responsible partizanship look like to you? >> it's partizanship with guardrails, meaning we've had a hyper partizanship over the last 2 or 3 decades where i try to trace it to the republican party, where any limitations on

what you can do, what procedures are fair game for partizan war? >> everything is on the table that's not responsible. partizanship so you need leaders that accept boundaries. you need certain procedures that are insulated from this kind of attack. and then you can have robust parties that reflect the differences of the country and help operate politics in a very fragmented system of government. so it's a great idea on paper, but you also need the actors who can behave the way that behavior is required to carry this out. it appears we're headed in a direction away from that. so what do you do about the human element of this? well, i'm glad i'm a historian and i'm not the politician, but i do call for a new kind of leadership. >> and i think ultimately, voters are going to be the ones who apply the pressure, and they're going to have to send signals that certain kinds of leaders who don't abide by any kind of guardrails are ultimately not good for the party, not good for the

democracy, but it will come down to the ballot box. >> i don't have a magic solution. i try to outline what kinds of leaders we need, removing certain kinds of procedures like the debt ceiling, which i think have become dangerous tools for the parties, and a few more recommendations. so let's go through a couple of those recommendations. they are including expanding the size of the house of representatives, eliminating the filibuster in the senate, and then two on how campaigns are funded, suggesting that there needs to be a public finance system for congress and overturning the citizens united ruling, which, of course, basically allows unlimited money into these into these campaigns. so walk us through a little bit as to why those matter. well, the campaign finance is important. i think if we have a system that is just bundled toward big contributors and big contributions, you have a bigger disconnect between the parties and voters. and people have a partizan system where they feel isolated from it. >> and i think encouraging small donations, really continuing to try to expand the base of who gives money is actually a

healthy way to integrate citizens into the party. the filibuster, eliminating, reforming it, as we have done many times in american history, it has become a powerful weapon, not of bipartisanship. >> it's actually a tool to create gridlock. so i think reforms are very useful. the debt ceiling is now just a very dangerous mechanism that the parties that the republicans have used to threaten to send the nation into default over budget disputes. and so i think reforms can take some of these away. and those are a couple that i talk about in terms of partizanship. >> what do we do about the following? the speaker of the house is from louisiana, new orleans, louisiana, during hurricane katrina was basically saved by the federal government of the united states of america, throwing money at new orleans, the speaker of the house within the last 48 hours has said

whatever help is thrown to southern california, los angeles county, we've got to watch out how they spend their money because they've been foolish in spending their money and basically saying they were basically blamed for the fires that were wind whipped, 90 mile per hour winds. what do we do about partizanship that deep, that destructive, that damaging? >> well, there you're not talking just about partizanship. >> you're talking about the republican party and you're talking about the speaker of the house in particular and the caucus. >> and so one answer is that democrats have to use their muscle in the next two years leading into the midterms to check that. and they have to remain disciplined. they have to remain united, as they did on the budget battle to keep the budget funded. and they are going to be the principal weapons or barriers to that kind of politics in the next few years. so their partizanship by democrats is actually going to be quite important in the very short term in the next few

months. hopefully the political pressure will overcome that kind of action. so let's follow your argument down the road, professor. what would in a few years from now, potentially, if we can end up in this place of responsible partizanship, how much more efficient would the government be? well, you can look at great moments in american history. you don't get a ronald reagan, you don't get an fdr without strong republican party, a strong democratic party. so a party that's strong, that's smart, that's responsible, can produce great leaders or great candidates in the next election cycle. a strong party, as i was trying to suggest in the short term, can become a principal check on a very aggressive president, on a very aggressive use of presidential power. those are just two kind of goals. and finally, strong parties can actually reflect, debate and negotiate some of the real differences that we have in the country over questions from voting rights to reproductive

rights to the budget and more so in the next few years, if we had two parties that were strong but responsible, that's the kind of politics we can have, as we had in much of american history, going all the way back to the founding. coming up here. do our dogs have something to tell the world? that's what our next guest wants to know. we'll dig into the fascinating new york times magazine story when morning joe weekend comes right morning joe weekend comes right back. in our family there was a passion for glass making that's passed down through the generations. we stood on some pretty broad shoulders to get to where we are at today. on ancestry i was able to actually put together our family tree. each person is a glass worker. that's why we do what we do. we can't help it. the glass blowing - that's a part of our dna. it's in my blood, it's in my history. it's my job to make sure that this shop makes it to the next generation.

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homes, with their lives driving around, there's almost nothing left standing. >> occasionally you'll see a house that's okay or a street that's okay, but that's occasional. i continue to see, and i want to shout out one more time the first responders who are responding in this mutual aid effort from all over southern california. >> it really has brought out the best and most inspiring part about human beings. >> speak. >> hi there. >> what did that dog just say? >> hi there. >> oh yes. >> brad, my name is doug. i have just met you and i love you. >> my master made me this collar. he is a good and smart master and he made me this collar so that i may talk squirrel. >> the 2009 film up introduced us to doug, a golden retriever who had plenty to say when he

wasn't otherwise distracted. but now life is imitating art. take tiktok sensation bunny, for example, a sheep doodle whose owners claim she can communicate by pressing buttons on the ground that represent and recite certain words. do you want to go for a walk? >> just. wait. >> it doesn't look too windy outside. >> i think we can safely go for a no wind walk. >> afternoon fire. >> afternoon fire. >> yeah, and morning fire. see? >> it's going again now. >> i let it go out, but it's going again now. >> she's going to get the fire going. >> okay, honey, i know, i know, baby i know, i know, i know, i know, i know. >> and bunny is not the only dog talking to their owners. families across the world are

using these buttons to try to learn more about what their pets are thinking. but do they really work? let's bring right now camilla bromley. she's the author of the new york new cover for the new york times magazine story titled do our dogs have something to tell the world? the article explores the science behind these buttons and the history of humans studying communication with animals. i've got to say, camille, yesterday is that we were putting the show together. this fell out of my sunday times and i said, res ipsa loquitur, baby. it speaks for itself. >> yes, we're going to do this story. >> but you know what's so funny is so, so by the way, darwin, alexander, graham bell, i mean, a lot of people have tried this in the pre tiktok days, but i was skeptical going into it. and then i remembered i had a golden lab mix, and i would just talk to her like a human. and one night i just think back, i opened up the door. i said, hey abby, go get kate. it's time for

dinner. and the dog not no training, just the dog. ram barked about an acre back. kate. come to what? >> i said dinner and so, thinking back without buttons or anything else, some dogs are just so smart. >> you can communicate on a basic level, can't you? >> oh, yeah. >> i mean, dogs will surprise you for sure. yeah. >> they're very they're very smart. >> yeah. >> so talk about these buttons. they've got, they've kind of taken off because of tiktok. but but they're actually there's an advanced study going on right now to test how much dogs can communicate with humans. right. >> yes. so i got turned on to these buttons after i adopted my puppy. she's a german shepherd, and i just heard about them from other dog owners. and then i, you know, there's videos all over social media that i started seeing. and the dogs, you know, with the buttons are doing

pretty surprising, impressive things. you know, they're putting combinations of words together in creative ways. but, you know, as i also wondered, well, i wonder what a scientist would think of this. and after i talked to federico rossano, who is a university of san diego professor who's leading a study on the buttons, i started to think, oh, this is, you know, this is a story. this is really interesting because you have the perspective of the dog owners who, you know, of course, they they kind of believe in the abilities of their dogs because they're they're seeing this happen and it's so amazing. and then you have the perspective of the scientists and i would say, like the larger scientific community, these people who study dogs for a living, extremely skeptical of what's going on with the buttons as they should be. right, because it's the job of scientists to be skeptical and to test things and so skeptical. yeah. go ahead. >> i was going to say skeptical

and also frustrated. he said that he had one guy come up to him and go, so you're the one responsible for my wife having my dog press all these buttons? >> yes, exactly. so the leader of the study, who's, you know, looking at these dog buttons in a very systematic way, and he's looking at thousands of animals, dogs and cats and some other animals, and he's asking the right questions and moving slowly. but yeah, it's sort of it's an it's sort of an unbelievable thing. right. because we don't there is a hard separation in our culture between humans using language and animals not using language. right. and so when you see those areas where that area becomes fuzzy, it all our alerts go up. >> and one thing that scientists will will say, though at least i think they've come to a conclusion that a lot of dogs have the intelligence of like a two and a half year old child human. so it's not like they're completely incapable of communicating. >> no, i absolutely agree with

that too. and you literally just said to camille that when my daughter was two and a half and then playing with my dog, i really felt like they were at the same level. >> and what i want to hear about from you, there's bobby sneakers right there. >> there's a very handsome, very handsome, naughty boy, bobby sneakers, 12 year old corgi. he might be a little too old to learn new tricks at this point, although he's very intelligent and i do feel like he knows probably 20 vocabulary words. but talk about your experience training ellie, your german shepherd puppy, which german shepherds are very smart, highly trainable. >> how many words did you teach her and did you keep it up? yeah. so i mean, as i was doing the reporting for this article, i thought, well, of course i have to try it with my own dog. right? i have to see firsthand how this works and how my dog uses it. how much of it is like me wanting her to use it. right. these are important questions. so i tried it out and yeah, she does. so she does. i would say

she uses it in a basic like non-genius way. she is not you know, she's not composing like a very like beautiful phrases with the buttons. but she's telling me that she wants to play. she's telling me that what kind of thing she wants to play with, she wants to play with a ball or she wants to play tug. she's telling me that she wants to go outside. and i learned about her. she surprised me. yeah. so i figured she would just slam the food button all day because she's a bottomless pit. and actually, no, she wanted she wanted to go outside and, like, look at the street and watch people go by some admirable restraint there. >> so what is next in terms of the science side of this in terms? are there experiments? are there future tests down the road to have more credible, if you will, understanding of whether dogs really understand us and whether they can talk back? >> yeah, sure. so there's two studies that are published. again, this is out of the university of san diego, and i believe they're publicly accessible. you know, you could go look them up. and the studies

are ongoing. so yeah, i mean, this is this is something that that will continue. and it's a pretty rich area of study. >> and we will have a second hour of morning joe weekend for hour of morning joe weekend for you right after this break. [monologue] i got somebody for that! ♪♪ i got somebody for that. ♪♪ i got somebody for that! you guys got somebody for peyronie's disease? ♪♪ there's hope for the estimated 1 in 10 men who may have peyronie's disease, or pd. a urology specialist who treats pd can help you create a plan— including nonsurgical options. find somebody today at gogetsomebody.com york times calls klein inspector a powerhouse law firm. so if

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like a dream. why didn't someone think of this sooner? >> welcome back to the second hour of morning joe weekend. let's jump right back into this week's top conversations.

>> house speaker mike johnson has selected republican congressman rick crawford of arkansas to serve as the next chairman of the house intelligence committee. johnson made the announcement yesterday, just one day after ousting republican congressman mike turner from the role. speaking to reporters, johnson denied replacing turner because of pressure from trump or his allies. >> this is not a president trump decision. >> this is a house decision, and this is no slight whatsoever to our outgoing chairman. >> he did a great job, but we just the intelligence community and everything related to gypsy, it needs a fresh start. >> and that's what this is about. >> to quote luke skywalker, yeah. at the finale of star wars eight, everything you just said was wrong because turner himself told cbs news yesterday that speaker johnson, when firing him

when firing a man respected by democrats and republicans on that committee alike, said he was doing so because of, quote, concerns from mar-a-lago. let's bring in right now democratic congressman jason crow of colorado. he is a member of the house armed services and the intel committees. congressman, thanks so much for being with us. you know, congressman turner, chairman turner very memorably was the republican that stood up on the house floor last year and warned republicans, you you may not know it, but you are actually spreading vladimir putin's propaganda in the people's house. he did a great job as intel chair. do you? well, i don't want to i don't want to put it well. >> he's commented on this. he said it was a foreboding.

>> yeah. so do you. do you what? >> i'll just ask you this way. what do you make of the speaker of the house claiming this had nothing to do with donald trump? >> well, you know, in trump world, when you come to house republicans, the blurring of the lines, i mean, they might say that trump didn't actually pick up the phone and ask him to do something, but it's pretty clear what donald trump wants house republicans to do. you know, there is a large percentage of that caucus that travels to mar-a-lago consistently, that talks to donald trump consistently. and, you know, listen, mike turner, he's a good man. i've served several terms on the intelligence committee with him. i've traveled to ukraine with mike turner. i've spent a lot of time with him. he's a traditional peace through strength republican. i disagree with him on a lot of issues, but he's a good man. he's a serious national security professional. he knows his stuff, and i'm very disappointed to see him go. >> by the way, by the way, the wall street journal editorial page, the conservative wall street journal editorial page agrees with you, thinks that this is very disturbing, especially in light of the fact

that tulsi gabbard may be running the intel community. >> well, mike turner's original sin in trump world is that he's an independent person, right? he is a conservative republican, there's no doubt about it. but he's shown his independence from intelligence reform issues to ukraine to our alliances. you know, he's an essential member of the nato parliament, somebody who believes in alliances, who believes in friendships. and that just is intolerable in certain elements of the world. >> do you know what the is there a specific issue that may have turned run him afoul of either donald trump or people around donald trump? was it ukraine? was it that he was such a strong supporter of ukraine? what what do you think it was? >> i senses his support for ukraine and then his support for fisa 702, which is that really essential intelligence authorization that allows us to foil terrorist plots. >> so, i mean, it's a contentious intelligence tool,

but a really important one we've made. >> and tulsi gabbard was opposed to that. and now has she she's flipped now. >> now she's not opposed to that. >> that's right on that. that's right. and why why do you think she flip flopped on that issue. >> well, because the senate knows that it's an important tool and the incoming administration knows it's an important tool. now we've had to make reforms to it. and i was one of the people who called for reforms because there were violations. there were misuses of that authority. we have reformed it. we have addressed those violations. now the incoming administration, now they're looking at having to govern. and they know that this tool is a tool that is used to consistently foil terrorist plots against americans. and they know that they need it. they know that with reform, we should have it. >> jonathan ramirez in washington and has a question for you, jonathan. >> so, congressman, let's talk though about this new era that begins here in washington on on monday. you know what. how are you preparing yourself is you're the minority though a slim one in the house of representatives. but it is a united republican front here. and trump has made

it very clear he intends to hit the ground running. what is going to be the party's approach in terms of moments of where maybe we compromise, but other moments of resistance. how do you sort that out in this particular moment? well, i think about how i was raised. i think about where i've come from. listen, i never should be a member of congress. nobody ever would have elected me in high school, most likely to be a member of congress, right? i was raised working in minimum wage jobs. i worked at mcdonald's. i worked at arby's. i helped work my way through college, working in construction. you know, i know when i got up every morning and went to the construction site and you shake someone's hand, you know, you're feeling that person's hands. you're doing a callus check because more than anything else, they want to know, who are you? are you one of them before? are you before they know what you think? before they know what your opinions are? you know that is my north star. that is where i was raised in a republican family, in a working class family in the upper midwest. and everything i do is going to go

back to that. right. and this massive wealth distribution that you talked about earlier on this show that that's continuing to occur. people are frustrated as hell and we have to address it. so if there's going to be this distribution to an oligarchy, to the billionaires, i will resist it. i will call it out, i will fight it because the people that i was raised around, the people that i grew up with, they deserve that. >> so with that in mind, i want to ask you about this plaque. you and i think 57 other house democrats sent a letter to speaker johnson urging him to comply with federal law and put up this plaque, which commemorates january 6th. that's right. what is going on with that and how do you respond if there's further refusal to put up a plaque that remembers something that happened at the us capitol? that was a seminal moment in our history? >> well, people have asked me, they say, well, why are you spending your time on plaques? of all the things, why is a

plaque important? and i'll tell you why. we get really close to these officers, these capitol police officers, we see them. i mean, you remember joe, we see them at the checkpoints. we see them going onto the floor every day. we get to know their families, their names. after january 6th. one of them that i was particularly close to called me just hours after we had retaken the capitol, called me. his voice was shaking and he said, you know, he had just been brutally beaten, head to toe, covered in bruises. and he said, you know, i thought i was going to die, but i thought i let you down. i thought i let you and the members down. my only thought was, how do i protect the members? how do i protect you? and in this young man, you know, he's been traumatized. he still has disabilities to this day. you know that. that is why it's important. you know, these officers, these people who every day put it on the line for us to protect us. they deserve an accurate retelling of that day and what happened. and i'm not going to stop until they get that accurate retelling.

>> so it. the plaque is there. the law has been passed. what what has the speaker said? what is what is his what is his justification for not actually abiding by the law? >> well, as far as i know, he has none, right? it is law. we sent him a letter we've been pushing for over a year. he says he's looking into it very clearly. house republicans don't want to talk about january 6th, particularly heading into monday when we expect large scale pardons of the very people who brutalized these police officers, who beat these men and women who took an oath to protect us. and if that pardon happens, you know, of course i'm going to call that out. so that's one of the reasons why we're doing it right now. we're doing it right now. morning joe weekend. we'll be my moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. with skyrizi, feel symptom relief at 4 weeks.

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been really the ability to travel around and, i don't know, lift up people. i think no matter whether it's celebrating teachers who, you know, you know i love or whether it's going to some disaster and people are just holding on tight because there's been a tornado or a fire and they just, you know, all hope is lost and just trying to lift them up and give them hope. and i think that's my greatest joy. >> that was first lady doctor jill biden speaking at our know your value event in the east room of the white house exactly one year ago, and not the first time i wore jeans at the white house. doctor biden has had an influential and historic tenure as first lady, caring for veterans and their families, spearheading the biden cancer moonshot and launching the white house initiatives on women's health research. doctor biden

was also the only first lady to work a paid job outside of the white house, serving as an english professor at northern virginia community college, a teacher. joining us now from the white house, the first lady's communications director, elizabeth alexander. she also serves as a deputy assistant to the president, also with us correspondent at vanity fair and host of the fast politics podcast, molly jong-fast, and the co-founder and ceo of all in together, lauren leder. so well, first of all, elizabeth, i'd like to know how you're feeling at this moment as well as we look at doctor jill biden's legacy, how history will look at it. >> thanks for having me on, mika. i mean, i think that the first lady and i myself, as somebody that's been in public service, we're feeling an immense amount of gratitude this morning. gratitude for the outpouring of support, gratitude for all the people that make the government work, all the people that the first lady has met, all

the inspiring stories that she's heard as you heard her say, as she's traveled across the country. she had her last event at the white house yesterday. her last solo event celebrating military families. and that's really how she wanted to close out this chapter at the white house, is celebrating military families through her joining forces initiative. also, we're proud. we're proud of what this president has achieved, his tremendous accomplishments and grateful for all the people that have made it work. >> and there were a lot of people who have been mentioned in recent headlines pertaining to tension about how this end has come. what do you make of that? and how is the first lady responding to that? >> you know, we're not focused on that. i mean, all of this reported tension, i think all these body experts who are trying to analyze the first lady and the vice president and other things which those body language

experts have been in the room prior to the carter funeral that sparked all of that, when they chatted for 30 minutes and were hugging and catching up on the biden's new great grandbaby. i just think that that's just a whole lot of nonsense. the president and the first lady are focused on working for the american people. we're running out of the tape. he's president until 1159 on on monday morning. and you've seen he made some announcements today about commutations. he's got a full schedule today. they're going out to andrews today to thank service members that have supported andrews air force base, to thank service members that have supported them. they're off to south carolina on sunday to go to church and return to the state that launched his presidency, that they both have a deep personal relationship to. so that's what they're focused on. >> lauren. yeah. >> so, elizabeth, thanks so much for coming. >> i'm always fascinated by the way in which the roles of first ladies, it kind of takes time for the historical world in a way, to really understand their full contributions.

>> to me, the women's health initiative is one of these sort of pieces that i, you know, could have really vast and long lasting impact on the country and on millions of people. can you help us understand, given the change of administration, are you confident that those important initiatives will remain? >> are they protected in some way so they can't be rolled back? >> what are you hopeful for in terms of the lasting impact of that incredibly important initiative? >> well, we are we are hopeful that it will remain a focus of the federal government. women's health research has historically been underfunded, and that has resulted in huge research gaps and huge gaps in knowledge. doctors don't have the answers to provide their patients because they don't have the research or the data. the first lady and the president have made this a focus for the last year, and since the president and first lady launched this initiative in november of 2020, 2023, they've galvanized $1 billion already in federal

research dollars and have also changed the way nih and other federal researchers approach health research involving women from the beginning. so there have there has already been tremendous change. the first lady is very interested in this topic. she wants to continue working on women's health research and advocating for more research post january 20th. and i think she's very excited about that. elizabeth. >> hi, it's molly jong-fast. >> i'm wondering, one of the sort of hallmarks of this administration has been passing incredible progressive legislation, chips and sciences, and being completely unable to transmit these wins to the american people. >> or do you have regrets about the administration's lack of being forward facing? and if you think that that is sort of how we got here, or how do you think we got here? because biden really did pass a mountain of amazing legislation that almost historic. i mean, i think that

so much credit goes to president biden and his 50 years of public service and his legislative expertise and his legislative skill that even in this hyper partizan environment, he got historic legislation passed. and while some of those effects won't be felt by the american people in the immediacy, but they will be felt in years to come, i'm sure others will take credit for it, but i hope you, molly and lauren and mika and your other friends in the media will fact check them on that, because all of that credit is due to joe biden and the building blocks that he laid in his administration to put our economy on a strong path. >> communications director for first lady jill biden. elizabeth alexander, thank you, my friend. i'll see you soon. thanks for coming on the show today. thank you so much, molly and lauren, i want to ask you about something we talked about here and what you brought up pertaining to

communicating the accomplishments of joe biden, because it's so easy to say, of course, after the fact, monday morning quarterbacking. so i totally admit that there's a little of that going on here. but why during the campaign, why was there such a need to separate kamala harris from joe biden's legacy? i mean, if the campaign is asked a question, what's going to be different than joe biden, why can't the answer be what would you want different? he passed more bipartisan legislation than any other president in modern american history. and then you go down the list and you push back. but there was this sort of almost it almost felt like the campaign fell into the disinformation trap about the very presidency they should have been very proud of. >> yeah. sorry. >> i, i just think, look, the problem was donald trump ran for president for four years and biden was not forward facing. >> now, that was a choice. and

then when harris took over, she was also not that forward facing. >> now, i don't know that they i think they could have been much more forward facing. they both are really good at communicating. and also the more you're out there, the more you're out there. what we saw with trump was he was out there so much that it didn't necessarily matter if he made a mistake because there was so much content. and i think that is the secret. >> it's such a catch 22 for her, right? >> i mean, she was absolutely eviscerated for responding to that question on the view about, you know, there was nothing she would do differently. >> i mean, the right eviscerated her for that. and there are a lot of right wing or sort of right of center folks who believe that that was actually the moment she lost the election, because it was this sense of it being needing to be a change election. and it's hard to understand why biden couldn't, you know, garner the credit that he deserved. but so much of it, that right wing media ecosystem, the smear machine that we talked about all year, was unbelievably effective. she was in an impossible position. >> up next is democracy facing a

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so, this year, you can say... ♪you did it!♪ times titled democracy is not facing a global extinction extinction event, editorial board member serge schmemann writes in part, democracy, it is often heard these days, is in crisis. the election of donald trump and news of political turmoil in many other democracies has created the impression that liberal democracy is everywhere in retreat. it's hard to travel in europe these days, or even to live in washington, without recognizing that liberal democracy is now in serious trouble in the world, a times columnist once wrote in these pages, we are living in a time of widespread doubt about the capacity of free societies to deal with the economic, political and philosophical problems of the age. many readers would agree. in fact, many did. in june 1975, almost a

half century ago, when journalist james reston wrote those words. but democracy did not founder then. and while there is no question that it is facing serious challenges today, it is another question whether they amount to a universal democratic backsliding or, worse, liberal democracy in danger of collapse. it should be reassuring that democracy is not facing a global extinction event, but more a patchwork of storms, and that democracies have usually found a way to weather them. okay, kurt, i don't know if you've had a chance to read that. we've read a big chunk of it there. democracy facing serious enough threats that we might think that it's going to be in retreat in a significant way around the world, or these are part of the kinds of threats that democracies are built to withstand. >> i tend to have the 51% more hopeful view that the new york times shared. i think, you know, it is it is easy and in its, in

its terrifying, automatic way, tempting to say to take what's going on in everywhere from hungary to germany to the united states and india and israel and everywhere else, and extrapolate. >> well, we'll see. >> i mean, we haven't had that many years of this rise of authoritarian right wing populism to, in my view, to have conviction that, yes, this is where we're headed. it's going down everywhere. and even when it's we've had in the past, let's say, look at 1930s when this happened, it was not universal. it was not global. it became obvious in that case, existential. so we'll see. i mean, you know, we haven't had in this country. i mean, my inclination about this country, for instance, is that we are at the end of a long period of, of that, that these this is the last hurrah of, of a kind of

right gone, decadent and extremist and, and we can get out of it now, i'm not convinced of that, but but that's, that's what i'm banking on in this country. >> are you optimistic if the setup is it a global extinction event for democracy, which is a very extreme question then. yeah, he's probably right that it's not an extinction event. i think, you know, thinking that t.s. eliot poem about when the world ends, it ends with not with a bang, but a whimper. i don't think we are having a bang event of democracy collapsing. january 6th is a bang event, you know, and we're very attentive to the bang events. if the question is, is democracy whimpering out in a certain way? i think there's more evidence for that. >> which is to say the whimper to me is not an insurrection. >> the whimper is most people in many places kind of falling out of the belief that this system makes their lives better, that this system is the place they

should turn to when something's not working in their life. and i think if that is your measure, democracy is in a very bad situation. i don't think it means it's going to fall apart. i don't think it means it means violent civil war, but i think there's just a passive feeling that whether it's 2008 financial crisis, whether it's climate change, whether it's these fires, whether it's the crisis of truth, whether it's for certain people to border that on issue after issue that people say, i this is a bigger problem than i can solve for myself. >> i want it fixed. >> and i just think a lot of people don't really think the government's going to fix it anymore. you saw it with the united health care ceo killer. you know, the amount of feeling that that undammed among people. the only thing you can read from that feeling is that is a lot of people who have given up on any other means of getting the kind of health care system they want, but murder, that should tell us, i think the depth of feeling out

there that this system just doesn't really have the purchase in people's lives that that i think we all grew up in school being told it does. yeah, we do have to leave it there. but a really important conversation, one we'll definitely revisit. msnbc political analyst and contributing editor to the atlantic, kurt anderson, our thanks to you both, gentlemen. we appreciate it. president joe biden delivered his farewell address to the nation this week, and he issued a stark warning about an oligarchy taking shape right here in america. we'll dig into that when morning joe weekend returns. >> used car shopping. >> two rows, two dogs. i'm sold. >> whoa whoa whoa. let's pause for the facts. whoa. like nearly half of all used cars, this puppy has been in an accident. but carfax. com shows how an accident impacts price. so you don't have to overpay. unpause.

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presidential cabinet full of loyalists that are going to push through his extreme agenda. don't miss the weekends, saturday and sunday mornings at eight on msnbc. >> let's bring in right now the co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box and a new york times columnist, andrew ross sorkin. also, nbc news senior business correspondent christine romans. so, andrew, the president, of course, last night in his farewell address, warning of many things, but but but mainly about this sort of tech industrial complex sounding a bit like eisenhower warning the military industrial complex back in january of 61, but specifically on the issue of ai. you warned about that too. those warnings are going up against a group of leaders in silicon valley that have this almost absolutist libertarian view that government can have no role in

in helping to manage and regulate and, and, and sort of trim some of the most extreme elements of what may be the most powerful technology that mankind has ever faced. well, look, i think we're we're in this sort of unique moment when it comes to ai. interestingly, a number of the folks who are running these institutions now have the ear of the incoming president in a major, major way. many of them actually have called for regulation, including elon musk and sam altman and others. and yet it is unclear whether congress, whether the senate, whether washington understands enough and can reach some consensus on what regulation of these institutions really is. i think there's been a big question as to when you hear an elon musk or you hear sam altman or you hear these companies say, please come regulate us. and we were hearing that for some time, whether that was a genuine effort to create some real regulation or that was a knowing

wink at the not at the american public, but cynically that, you know, if you can come out and say, we want regulation, knowing full well that that kind of regulation may be impossible. and when it comes to the details and we haven't seen it yet, you know, whether those same people will be pushing back on that. >> so, christine, president biden, of course, used part of last night's speech to issue that warning about ai. but he also in the speech and the letter the white house released earlier in the day defended his economic record. it's something he believes he can be very proud of. what's your assessment? what sort of economic legacy does this president leave behind? >> well, the biden team for months has thought it has a good story to tell, but american public is so scarred by higher prices that they're not they're not hearing it. >> i mean, you look at 16 million jobs created in the biden administration. >> you stack that up against previous presidents. i mean, it's very clear this was a very strong period of job creation and economy that is biggest it's ever been. >> and above, above pre you

know, pre covid trends. >> i mean one after another you see these strong numbers the investments in infrastructure. >> and you know the biden team also knows that now people can say they're not going to have to ration their insulin anymore. >> and seniors on medicare, you know, they'll only pay $2,000 out of pocket for their prescription drug costs. >> but all of those things did not resonate with voters, which is why donald trump will be president again. >> so they know they have a good story to tell. i think in those 17 minutes last night, it was for the moment in terms of technology and the oligarchy, as they said, but also for the history books. they think time will be kind to them about the economy overall. >> let's talk about the warning regarding oligarchy. we had conversation earlier. andrew, this is this is somewhat reminiscent of the time when teddy roosevelt, at the turn of the century, between the 19th and 20th century, when there was real concerns about growing trust, having extraordinary

power over the economy and the lives of average americans, and teddy roosevelt, of course, came in to push back against that. but let's talk about how perhaps other than that time, billionaires, the richest of the rich, are accumulating power and authority and wealth in a way they never have before. it's astonishing. and i will tell you, there was a letter that warren buffett published just a couple of months ago, where even he said that he could not fathom the amount of wealth he was able to create over these last several decades. he said that nobody could, and that it's actually a remarkable shift. even the rockefellers. this is outdoing that, that kind of wealth. and so then the question is, you know, what we allow people to use that wealth for? and this gets to the very basis of our democracy between citizens united and the way our system has developed, those individuals, those very specific

individuals at the very top of these forbes 400 lists and the like have enormous, enormous power. and we're seeing it in a way, i think that we haven't in decades manifest itself insofar as the people that you will be seeing sitting behind, for example, president elect trump, president trump, we will call him on monday at this inauguration. >> up next, we'll dig into new reporting on tulsi gabbard's unauthorized trip to syria in 2017 and the hunt for american hostage austin tice. the reporter behind the story, will join us on what his investigation uncovered. morning joe weekend. we'll be right back. >> lumify. >> it's kind of amazing. >> wow. lumify eye drops dramatically reduce redness in one minute. and look at the difference. >> my eyes look brighter and whiter for up to eight hours. >> lumify really works. see for

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if you have hepatitis b, don't stop taking biktarvy without talking to your healthcare provider. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. no matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. talk to your healthcare provider today. will bring you key moments of the day, followed by analysis from our prime time anchors as the new term begins monday, beginning at six on msnbc. stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the msnbc daily newsletter. get the best of msnbc all in one place. sign up for msnbc daily@msnbc.com. >> president elect his his pick to lead america's intel agencies. tulsi gabbard still doesn't have a confirmation hearing date set. edwards

expected to face the biggest challenge to being confirmed, with several republicans saying they are still unsure if she's the best choice to be the director of national intelligence. the concerns, of course, revolve around gabbard's 2017 unauthorized trip to syria, in which she met with then dictator bashar al assad, whom she has spoken positively about since that meeting. there's now a new reporting fascinating, important reporting surrounding that trip and a possible possible connection to a missing american that three presidents have tried to bring home. in a piece titled tulsi gabbard, sean penn and the hunt for an american hostage. let's bring in right now the reporter behind the story, senior editor at the economist, steve coll. steve, always great to see you. this really is such an important story. fascinating story about not only tulsi gabbard and sean penn, but also austin tice. tell

us what you learned. >> well thanks, joe. i think the most important element is that while they were on this trip that you highlighted to syria in 2017, a member of representative gabbard's traveling party was led by the syrian regime to meet an american prisoner who that colleague of miss gabbard, later identified as austin tice, the missing american journalist who was abducted near damascus in 2012. >> this report became a thread of intelligence that ultimately reached the trump administration's lead hostage negotiator. a couple of years later, it was explored. but it's just remarkable that miss gabbard didn't know about it at the time. according to our reporting, she was told about it a couple of years later. but a spokeswoman for her denied that she'd received this information, that she'd received actionable intelligence. otherwise she

would have acted on it. so it's sort of emblematic of the world of intelligence that she would have to sift through if she were confirmed to be the director of national intelligence. >> well, and what is would be so surprising to many. shocking to so many is the fact that that sighting and that intel from 2019 would be the last time that americans that that we had any information, any intel that austin tice was, in fact, alive. is that correct? yeah. >> i mean, with an identifiable witness at least. and, you know, it's a sad and important story, this abduction, it's been front and center for a number of administrations. and in fairness, i think all of them have made an effort. we quote deborah tice, austin's mother, as saying that she nonetheless worries that the government sat on leads across all administrations that they could have pursued. and now that the assad regime is gone, the

hostage negotiator lead in the biden administration has been over there sifting through prisons. and still the mystery remains. i think one of the questions that gets raised in this reporting is, if the syrians had him all this time, and if successive american administrations were interested in bargaining, really to be generous to syria to try to get this american home, why did it not work? i think one of the things i came away with was that the syrians under assad considered that if they release tice, they would lose more than they gained. they didn't trust the united states to deliver on promises, but more. they feared that if austin tice came home and told the truth about what he had endured in syria, that the united states would turn hostile very quickly. so it's a unfortunately, a recurring part of american foreign policy to a greater and greater degree.

donald trump was very focused on freeing hostages during his first term. i'm sure he will be again. but the trade offs and the complexity of dealing with these closed regimes when they take americans is just mind boggling. >> so, steve, let's talk about what comes next now that assad is gone. the new regime coming in, you know the region well, you know, if they find austin tice, would would they be willing to make a deal? you give us your sense on that. and also just the future of the nation writ large. >> i think the new government would be very anxious to take credit for discovering and freeing austin tice. i mean, they've been trying to liberate prisons around the country. they don't control all of the territory of syria, even as they've taken damascus and major cities, at least as i understand it. so there may be facilities that are yet to be liberated. but i think this is a piece of

unfinished business for the united states in syria, that it would be very much in the interest of the new government to clean up, no matter what the truth is. there's another element, which is that the assad regime, like other dictatorships in the middle east, kept meticulous records and recordings that have been scooped up by various intelligence agencies in the region, and at some point, sifting through those materials, more truth should emerge, both about austin tice's case, but also about interactions like the one that miss gabbard had when she came to syria in 2017. >> coming up, ben stiller, who directs and produces the apple tv show severance, and the series star adam scott, will join us straight ahead with a preview of the much anticipated season two. keep it right here season two. keep it right here on morning joe. weekend. -what've you got there, larry? -time machine. you gonna go back and see how the pyramids were built or something? nope. ellen and i want to go on vacation,

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season debuts, it's joe's conversation with director ben stiller and star adam scott. take a look. >> who are you people? welcome back. marcus. it's been a minute, so you got to tell me what's up. >> like, this has taken like three, three and a half years. you're about my age. yeah, that's like the distance between, like, boston albums in the 1970s. >> you're like, where are they going to do the follow up to boston? >> i know this took forever, man. >> i've watched my 50s just be devoted to 70s. >> no. >> so, yeah, a lot, a lot of things actually happened. >> it's never the plan to take this long. between seasons. we had a number of issues. one of the biggest ones was the strike. the writers and actors strike. >> that hit us at a tough time. >> you know, all through it, we were just trying to remember that at some point, you know,

we're people are going to want to see the show. and we just got to remember that we have to keep working at it and do the best we can, even if it's taking a little longer than we want. >> i know i communicated with you back when i was on social media. can i just say when the season finale of season one aired, the very first feedback i got was from you was a text saying, oh man, that season finale, and you got it at 5 a.m. yeah, i'll tell you why. and that's why i've never done this with any show. but, you know, i go on the i go on morning joe very early, but i would wake up because they would drop it about like 330 in the morning, right on right on fridays. that's how how much i loved it. and i would watch it from 330 to 430. before you start the show, before i started the show. and so i guess my question is, why did this show connect so much with people like me? you got like, i think 14 emmy nominations. like, what was it that made this show

different than than so many others so special? >> i think it's part of it is the concept is just such an intriguing and smart idea in terms of the question of like, what would happen if we could actually keep our work selves and our, you know, our regular life totally separate. and if you didn't remember that and, you know, that idea, i think is just really intriguing to people. >> like i think also, season one happened to drop in the spring of 2022, right? in the, you know, right. as we were kind of coming out of the pandemic and everyone was kind of reexamining their relationship with work, right? and with their work life balance and the show, it's not something we anticipated, but the show was really kind of zeroing in on that. >> yeah. i found it's hard to really explain to friends, how is this show explained to you? did you understand it when you when you first heard it? >> well, i loved the core idea. like ben was saying. i just thought it was incredibly clever. and. but then everything that surrounded that idea, the

whole world and the characters, it was sort of this mix of all my favorite genres in one package. i remember walking onto the set the first day i got there in october of 2020, and seeing this whole world that ben and our production designer jeremy hindle had created and being like, oh, okay, first of all, this set is doing like half my work for me because i feel like i'm stepping into this other world. but also, i can see now what this what what ben is doing here. and it's something completely different. this season kicks off with with a scene where my character mark is running down a hallway, right. and part of the pure joy of working with ben is that he looks at something like that and he decides, we're going to make this special, and we're going to take this sequence of mark running down the hall and work

on it off and on over, you know, 4 or 5 months, basically saying he's going to torture you. >> that's right. he's never going to stop. >> but i have to also say one of the shows for me that was a huge influence on severance is the office, and that's another show that's incredibly simple. >> yeah, brilliant. >> and one set self-contained that they they really are always in corporate culture right now, these huge corporations, you know, this kind of faceless, nameless sort of sometimes ideology of the company, these big companies. >> right. it's weird. >> well, we're out of time for this saturday. and thank you for being with us. we'll be right back here tomorrow morning at 6 a.m. for two new hours of morning joe weekend. until then, enjoy your day. >> good morning. it is