last day in office, and just one day before president elect donald trump's inauguration, on the same day that we'll remember doctor martin luther king jr. the house minority leader, congressman hakeem jeffries, will be on the show with us tomorrow, as well as martin luther king the third, his wife, andrea waters king, and their daughter, doctor king's only grandchild, yolanda renee king, who will be joining us tomorrow. it will be a busy show and you do not want to miss it. that's tomorrow, sunday, 5 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. the saturday show with jonathan capehart starts right now. >> two presidents, president elect donald trump is flying to washington to begin celebrating his inauguration on monday. he tells nbc news he's planning a record number of executive

actions on day one, including a possible reprieve for tiktok. >> president biden, having granted clemencies and secured a cease fire deal in the middle east, still has time to make some bold moves. >> and with his time in the oval office drawing to a close, i have a personal thank you for him. >> fragile. peace. >> the first phase of that ceasefire deal between israel and hamas is set to begin in a matter of hours, unless there is a last minute hiccup over the hoage release. jeremy bash is here to explain why the hardest part of the deal is yet to come, and ice cold. >> jennifer rubin and ashley etienne join me to discuss trump's plans to carry out mass deportations. >> quote, very early, very quickly. i'm jonathan capehart. this is the saturday show.

>> in less than 48 hours, donald j. >> trump will be sworn in as the 47th president of the united states. >> he'll return to the white house, a convicted felon, a first for the presidency. >> the president elect left his home in florida earlier today, and we're watching for his arrival at dulles airport in suburban washington, d.c, this evening. he's hosting a fireworks show and dinner tonight at his sterling, virginia, golf resort. >> tomorrow, trump is holding a victory rally at the capital one arena smack in the middle of downtown washington that will include speeches by elon musk, stephen miller and, of course, trump himself. earlier today, vice president elect jd vance and trump's cabinet picks met in washington as thousands packed the streets downtown for the people's march to protest trump's inauguration and highlight key issues like civil rights, immigration, climate and democracy. meanwhile, due to freezing temperatures set to descend upon the capital,

monday's festivities will take place indoors. workers are scrambling to build the stage where trump will take the oath of office in the capitol rotunda, the same room rioters trashed on january 6th. >> in a phone interview today, the president elect told nbc's kristen welker the theme of his inaugural address will be, quote, unity, strength and fairness. >> trump also vowed to sign a, quote, record setting number of executive orders, beginning with mass deportations, but he did not give an exact date or city where the deportations will start. we'll spend a lot of time during this hour talking about what's ahead in the next 48 hours and the next administration. >> but first, i'd like to take a moment to talk about the honorable man leaving the white house. >> on new year's eve. i attended a beautiful wedding, a jubilant mix of friends and family. in

the mix was the bride's uncle, president joseph biden jr. i was eager to speak to him. before we sat down for dinner. i needed to say thank you. my thank you to biden was deeply personal. the straight, white, catholic irish man did historic things as vice president and then as president to make this african american and out gay married man feel more a part of the american story. >> biden isn't perfect. >> any critic could troll his 50 years in public life to find comments and votes that reflected the popular sentiments of the time, but might shock consciences. today. as the nation evolved, so did he. for instance, biden was among the 85 senators who voted in 1996 to pass the defense of marriage act that prohibited marriage for same sex couples. fast forward to 2012. >> biden, then vice president, came out for same sex marriage on meet the press three days

before president obama. >> he caught hell inside the white house. it made him a hero outside the white house. >> when biden became president, he continued weaving lgbtq plus americans into their nation's fabric. >> he signed the respect for marriage act, requiring recognition of same sex and interracial marriages like mine. >> he gave us the first out gay man confirmed to the cabinet, the first out lesbian to serve as press secretary and the first out transgender person confirmed to a position by the senate. >> were it not for the biden presidency, we wouldn't have had vice president kamala harris, the first black woman elected to the position. we wouldn't have justice ketanji brown jackson, the first black woman confirmed to the supreme court. my admiration for biden is also rooted in the character of a man whose lifetime of public service is intertwined with a lifetime of public pain. in 2017, we were

seated across from each other on stage discussing promise me, dad. his moving memoir about his son beau's fight against brain cancer. >> as he spoke of beau biden physically folded into himself, head bowed, eyes downcast. >> but as soon as the conversation turned to politics, biden brightened. he sat up straight. he looked me in the eyes. he held forth like a man back in the game. two years later, he was a candidate again, determined to defy the low expectations that hounded him his entire political life and defied them. he did. >> biden won the democratic nomination and the white house in 2020. >> once in office, biden kept defying the odds by racking up legislative victories that seemed impossible. after interviews with biden in 2022 and 2024. i felt i fully understood what fueled him. >> he loves the job because of

the power it gives him to solve problems. >> the more intractable, the better. but low expectations caught up with biden. his painful debate performance gave democratic party detractors what they needed to drum him out of his race for reelection. in two days, we will witness the first convicted felon inaugurated president of the united states. the latest ap norc poll found biden with a lower approval rating as he leaves than his predecessor and successor had in 2020. but i'm confident history will judge him a great presiden, but not an infallible one. he made plenty of mistakes. still, biden is a good man who brought his entire imperfect self to the world's most unforgiving job, and his faith in us was unshakable. >> we are the united states of america, and there is nothing,

nothing beyond our capacity when we act together. >> i swell with i swell with pride every time i hear him say that. for i know that i am part of the hour in his vision. he's shown me by his actions. and for that i had to say thank you. coming up, president elect trump tells nbc news that he's considering a lifeline for tiktok that may be announced monday. and we're just seven hours away from a ceasefire taking effect in gaza. but israel has a new warning for hamas. i'll talk with jeremy bash about what it means for this fragile agreement. stay with us. you're watching the with us. you're watching the saturday show on an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement.

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extension to operate in the united states. tiktok is due to shut down tomorrow after the supreme court upheld a law banning the popular app from operating in this country unless it finds a buyer located outside china. trump is also reacting to the long awaited cease fire deal between israel and hamas, set to take effect in about seven hours. the first phase of the agreement includes a six week truce and a surge of humanitarian aid to gaza. ambulances and supply trucks are already waiting to enter at the egyptian border. hamas will also release three israeli hostages tomorrow in exchange for at least 90 palestinian prisoners. this is the first of three six week phases. the next will seek a permanent end to the war and israeli withdrawal from gaza. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu said today the attacks on gaza will resume if necessary, and demanded that hamas provide a list of the hostages to be released tomorrow. trump told nbc today

he'll meet with netanyahu soon. he also reiterated his warning that, quote, all hell will break out if the terms of the cease fire aren't met. and joining me now, jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and the department of defense during the obama administration. jeremy, as always, thank you for coming to the saturday show. so phase one is completed, but we've got phase two and phase three to go to get through. they will prove to be be more difficult. how confident are you that both will be completed? >> yeah, actually let me just correct that because i think it's important. phase one is just beginning tomorrow so that it's going to commence tomorrow. but this is going to play out, jonathan, over 42 days. and we expect to see the first living israeli hostages released tomorrow evening, sunday evening. but at the same time, israel has published a list of more than 750 palestinian prisoners, including those who

have murdered many innocent people, conducted terrorist attacks, who are going to be released. and so obviously, there's this asymmetry. you're going to have 33 released in the first phase, a combination of some living and maybe some deceased, some murdered hostages and 750 palestinian prisoners. so that's going to be phase one. it's very fragile because of course, if either side doesn't uphold its end of the bargain. of course, it's difficult to trust hamas that they will hold up their end of their bargain. you know, this thing could get stalled. as for the americans, we expect two americans to be released in the first phase. 36 father of 36 year old father of three. and keith siegel, edan alexander, the final remaining living american hostage. we're worried he's not going to be released until a later phase because he's a military age male. it's important the americans try to get him out as soon as possible. >> and by later phase, you mean that's phase two, phase two, phase two. and i want to bring up something that national security adviser john kirby said on msnbc on thursday. he said, quote, the biggest point of peril is actually getting to

phase two. >> that's right. because of course, you've got to trust hamas and they're going to be dribbling these hostages out. and the israelis are going to be pulling back from their military positions in the gaza strip. and after phase two, they're going to be completely out of the gaza strip, and they're going to have to put a security cordon around gaza. and it's not until actually phase three that the remains of all the hostages will be returned to their loved ones, and that includes the remains of four americans taken omar. neutra, judy and gadi hagai. and they also need to be returned, repatriated to their loved ones in israel. >> now, as a result of this deal, far right minister ben-gvir resigned from the government. today, another minister, minister smotrich, has threatened to leave. leave the government. will netanyahu's government hold? >> he thinks he has the votes and the american officials i've talked to and the israelis i've talked to believe that the government will hold. but this deal is not very popular in

israel because, of course, you know, so many palestinian terrorists are going to be released. and these hostages have been held in such terrible conditions for more than 460 days now to this point, that this deal is not very popular. >> in touting the ceasefire deal, as secretary of state antony blinken said that this this cease fire deal created, quote, a credible pathway to a palestinian state. given what we've heard from prime minister netanyahu and from incoming president trump, is that wishful thinking? >> the first trump administration tried to pursue some sort of peace agreement between israel and the palestinian authority. the palestinian authority rejected it outright because they didn't like the map, they didn't like the borders. and so i'm pretty skeptical that we're going to see a palestinian state. you know, i think what we're more likely to see, jonathan, and i think it is positive, is normalization between israel and some of the gulf arab countries, building on the abraham accords. we've talked about this before, israel and saudi arabia and the united states potentially

striking a three way security deal. i think that could happen. i think another unknown, jonathan, here is what did netanyahu have to say to excuse me, what did trump have to say to netanyahu in order to get him to move on this issue? and we don't know really what the trump team is going to back with respect to israeli policy. we could see them support, for example, strikes on iran's nuclear program. >> let's turn our attention to tiktok. and it's going to go dark tomorrow because of the law and because of the supreme court upholding the law in a unanimous decision. >> but why is this? >> why is this such a big deal? the government sued. actually, the government was defending itself, but a lot of lawmakers wanted this law because of the national security implications of tiktok and china's ownership of tiktok. i don't think a lot of people fully appreciate what that's about. >> yeah, there were two national security concerns that motivated congress to pass this law.

>> first, that tiktok can harvest the data of 170 million americans, built a massive database of americans personal information, steal passwords, and use that information to hack into our water systems, our electrical systems, our transportation systems, and our financial systems. so major cybersecurity vulnerability presented by tiktok. and second, tiktok can manipulate that algorithm because they're owned by the chinese company. that is really has to do and obey what the chinese government wants. they can manipulate that algorithm to denigrate american narratives and promote chinese propaganda. and so this law is, i think, a bona fide national security law. trump is actually confronting the c hawks in his own party. he's confronting the tom cotton's, the marco rubio's, those who supported this law by saying, i'm going to give tiktok a lifeline. and it's really interesting because he obviously wants to be the hero. he wants to save tiktok because his, you know, viral dances have now kind of made him kind of a tiktok sensation, if you will. >> right? >> it always comes back to his

his personal interest. >> let's talk about there was a slew of confirmation hearings this week, and we don't even have enough time to get into all of them. >> but i think the last time you were here, we talked about pete hegseth and his in his nomination to be secretary of defense. your views on how that hearing went and whether your views on him have changed as a result? >> yeah. i don't think he lost any republican votes. i think he's probably going to be confirmed, because i think he does have senator ernst from iowa in his corner. she was seen as one of the swing votes. but the hearing was really interesting. and i would just point to two senators questions. first, the new senator from michigan, elissa slotkin, i think, did a masterful job in saying to him, have you been part of any conversations with the president elect or his team about using the military unlawfully, unconstitutionally to conduct law enforcement activities inside the united states to round up immigrants? that's against the backdrop of this story that we've seen, that trump is going to launch a major immigration raid in chicago beginning tuesday. and he was squirming because he didn't want

to say, i haven't been part of conversations. that makes him seem out of the loop. he didn't want to say, i've been part of conversations because it obviously implicates him. then we saw questioning from senator shaheen from montana, the new senator. and you know what this very strategic question was posed to the incoming secretary of defense. how many push ups can you do? i mean, what a waste of time in a congressional hearing. but i do think the questioning by the democrats is pretty effective. i do, however, believe that he's likely to be confirmed as the next secretary of defense, although on monday at noon we won't have a secdef and i talked to people in the pentagon this weekend. they have no idea who's going to be in the chain of command when donald trump is sworn in. >> wait a minute. >> hold on. the defense department, to me, is like the most bureaucratic institution in the world. >> there's no number two. as of late yesterday, the front office of the secretary had no idea who is going to be the secretary of defense. the number two is a political appointee under biden. she's going to be departing now. they could ask her to stay, but the trump team would have to do

it until pete hegseth is confirmed. we won't have a secretary of defense until they tell us who that person is going to be. and that person is in the chain of command for nuclear weapons employment, deployment of troops, and all of the other major national security issues that we face as a country. >> jeremy, you just scared the hell out of me, jeff, but thank you for bringing that to our attention. jeremy bash, as always, thank you for coming to the saturday show. coming up, what donald trump plans to carry out on day one of his presidency, including when and where mass deportations could start. msnbc political analyst jennifer rubin and democratic strategist ashley etienne join me with what to expect next. you're watching the saturday you're watching the saturday show on when you're a small-business owner, your to-do list can be...a lot. ♪♪ super helpful. ♪♪ [ cheering ] what are invoices? progressive makes it easy to see if you can save money

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chicago, according to the journal. the operation is, quote, a way of making an example of so-called sanctuary cities. end quote nbc has confirmed this report and says ice could target additional cities next week, including washington dc, denver, philadelphia and los angeles. this crackdown comes after ten senate democrats joined republicans in advancing another part of trump's immigration agenda. the lincoln riley act would allow ice to detain and deport undocumented immigrants accused of nonviolent petty crimes like shoplifting. trump is also planning dozens of extreme executive orders on day one, from imposing 25% tariffs on mexico and canada to eliminating birthright citizenship in the united states. joining me now, jennifer rubin, co-founder and editor in chief of the contrarian and msnbc political analyst. and ashley etienne, former communications director for both

vice president kamala harris and former speaker nancy pelosi and former senior adviser to presidents obama and biden. that's all the time we have now for all your all y'all's titles, but i appreciate it, jonathan, but thank you both very much for being here. the wall street journal is reporting this. nbc news is reporting this that on tuesday in chicago, mass deportations will start just as reaction to what we're about to see. well, i mean, you know, even the wall street journal just recently released a poll which really indicates that this won't be without risk for donald trump, even among his own base, that the overwhelming majority of americans only want those deported that have committed crimes and want the long term citizens to stay here, especially those who were born here. >> my real concern, jonathan, is what is the opposition going to look like right now? i mean, donald trump has a tactic of, you know, of the shock and awe

as what they call it, which is a military term of overwhelming your enemy to the point of them being demoralized and not willing to fight. >> and so my question is, who's going to be putting up the fight on the on our side? >> it feels like to me, to your point earlier that democrats are, you know, moving to the right on this particular issue, that people are becoming a little more numb to it, in fact. >> so that's really my main concern. >> you know, you look outside on the we're not far from the mall here. those crowds are nearly as big as they were during the first inauguration. >> we don't have a nancy pelosi who's going to stand up to trump. so that's really my main concern. >> i expect trump to be trump, but he needs to know it's not without risk. but my main concern is who's going to stand up to trump on these issues? jennifer. >> well, what strikes me is on one hand, this is the beginning of a series of cruel, petty actions because these people are not a threat, frankly, to anyone. but it also strikes me that this is not a plan to deport 11 million people. there is no plan to deport 11 million people because that's

impossible. and he would destroy the economy of this country. so it's going to be very interesting to see. is his base disappointed when 11 million people aren't shipped home? and frankly, what happens to the steve bannon elon musk battle? we have a serious conflict within the republican party. but to ashley's point, i think democrats have to be speaking with one voice. they have to find those stories of people who are sympathetic, just like the republicans always do, and tell their story. allow americans to see what these people are doing to individuals, to families, to communities, and to the economy of the cities that they're in. >> ashley. so they must have heard you, because the washington post is breaking a story that homan, the border guy who was the border czar, who was going to go to chicago and start these mass deportations on tuesday in chicago. the washington post is breaking a

story that he's reconsidering those plans because the because of the leaks of the plans. so that ought to tell you right there, they know what they're doing is bad news. absolutely. well, you know, trump mostly wants the visual, right? >> i mean, you know, he's threatened these when he was in the office last time. i'm going to, you know, initiate these raids. and i'm targeting 2000 migrants and only 35, i think, were captured. i mean, the reality is like, you know, there's the emperor doesn't have a skirt, you know? >> right. well, the emperor doesn't have a skirt. can we talk? can we talk about in the time that we have left, the man who is about 48 hours away from no longer being president of the united states, and that's joseph r biden jr, the man still working. yes. he got he clemencies a couple of days ago and then a cease fire deal on thursday. apparently there might be more pardons coming in the

time that we that we have left. just your thoughts on on our outgoing president. >> this is the great tragedy of joe biden. is that what he has accomplished is really unprecedented in modern times. you look at that domestic agenda, whether it was infrastructure, whether it was caps on prescription drugs, drugs, not only the number but the scope. the importance of these is really dramatic. and in the foreign policy realm, he has helped hammer out a deal for the return of the hostages. thank god he put together an enormous international alliance to confront russia. the accomplishments are amazing. and yet he leaves office as a one term president. many people are extremely upset, of course, that he didn't back out sooner, giving kamala harris a year or perhaps two years to introduce herself to the american people to get elected. so i think it is the best and the worst. and he lives. he leaves office in a somewhat tragic figure in my

mind, one of the best presidents and yet defeated and exiting the white house, turning the keys over to donald trump. >> you know, ashley, to my mind, you know, watching the funeral of president jimmy carter, who also left washington after one term after just getting clobbered by the economy, a hostage crisis in the middle east, basically slinked out of washington, had a 40 year career post-presidency for 40 times longer. longer. i don't i'm so bad at math, but multiples longer than his time in the white house. and when you listen to the speeches at his funeral, reading the stories in the papers about his presidency with a 40 year distance, his presidency looks a whole lot better today than it did when he left in 19. on january 20th, 1981. do you think that in even

shorter order, that history, the lens of history, will turn on on president biden and show that, to jennifer's point, his presidency was actually more spectacular than people fully appreciate at all right now. sure. no. >> i mean, the reality is we don't have 40 years to wait to tell that story of what joe biden actually did because, as he said to the american people in the oval office, just, just this week, that that we won't feel the effects of his presidency until he's gone. so in the next 3 or 4 years. so my i was on a call this morning with the president and the vice president and the president said, although i'm leaving office and although we're leaving office, we can't leave the fight. and i hope he takes his own advice, and i hope both he and kamala harris will lean in and continue to tell that story. don't wait 40 years, because absent them telling the story, you know who's going to take credit for it? donald trump's going to take credit for it. exactly. and we can't afford that as a party going into the next general. right.

>> we have less than a minute. but do you have any concern at all that vice president kamala harris is going to cede into the shadows? >> no, i have no concern. i mean, we again, i was in her office when she was signing her desk, and she was like, there's one thing that's true about me that i don't go away quietly. so i don't expect that she will. >> and the key thing is she's not going away. jennifer rubin, ashley etienne. oh, and i should also say the big column that i wrote about president biden in the post, i've got one about the vice president coming out tomorrow at washingtonpost.com at 6:30 a.m. there's a free plug for me, ashley etienne, jennifer rubin, thank you both very much for coming back to the saturday show ahead, looking at president biden's legacy and his warnings about the future. in a final speech from the white house, we'll talk to presidential historian lindsay chervinsky about how history will remember his presidency and a programing note from monday morning joe kicks off coverage of president elect donald trump's inauguration starting at 6 a.m. eastern. t at 10 a.m, rachel

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need someone who elevates advice to a craft. at ubs, we match your vision with insight and expertise to shape a unique outcome for you. >> advice is our craft. >> donald trump will take the oath of office in less than 48 hours, but president biden isn't done yet. he's expected to issue more pardons, including possible preemptive pardons of trump adversaries, in his last official acts before leaving the white house monday morning. earlier this week, president biden delivered his closing message to the american people. and in his final sit down interview with msnbc's lawrence o'donnell, the president emphasized the importance of defending our democracy while warning about the potential erosion of the guardrails that protect it. >> i really am concerned about how fragile democracy is. that sounds corny, but i mean, i

really i really am concerned because you've heard me say it a hundred times. i really think we're at an inflection point in history here where, unrelated to any particular leader, things are going to change drastically. the reason for all the safeguards out there is, in a very trite way, to say, keep the bullies from taking advantage of everybody else. the basic guardrails, they seem to just seem to be chipping away at all those elements. >> joining me now, lindsay chervinsky, presidential historian and executive director of the george washington presidential library and author of making the john adams and the presidents that forged the republic. thank you very much for being here. when we played that quote of president biden with lawrence o'donnell, it struck me that it it's a bookend to his campaign, his opening campaign video for

why he ran in the first place in 2020. it was a message of our democracy is at risk. i feel i need to jump in and help save the country. now he's leaving office and saying the country, the guardrails are in peril. we are in peril. what do you make of that as an outgoing message? >> well, in some ways it's sort of an acknowledgment that he didn't preserve it, right? >> that he if it is truly a bookend and the threat that he was campaigning against is coming back, then he wasn't able to protect against it. >> i think the problem is that a lot of times, people don't understand how important democracy is to their daily life, so they think it's a luxury. >> they think it's this big idea as opposed to essential to our day to day decisions. >> you know, last night on pbs, i wrote, reiterated something. i said, i think on on election night, when it became clear that donald trump was going to be the was president elect, then it seemed to me, despite all the warnings about authoritarianism

and his, you know, lack of regard for constitutional norms, that it seemed to me that the american people, maybe they've given up on democracy. am i going too far? you're the historian here. >> well, you know, polls suggest that younger generations think it doesn't work. >> and i think the reason they think it doesn't work is because they've seen several cycles now of leaders fail them. >> they've seen the economic crisis. >> they've seen failed wars, they've seen corruption. >> they've seen the last several years of increasing nastiness in politics. >> and so they don't believe that they have any reason that they should want it. >> but that doesn't necessarily mean, i think, that all americans have given up. >> i think it's actually a communication problem. >> fdr was really great at this. >> fdr would talk about the four freedoms and how democracy was essential to your daily worship, to the food that you put on the table to go to bed. >> not afraid. at night, we need to explain to people why these things actually matter. >> well, to that point, my colleagues at the washington

post on the on the editorial board have an editorial out there, like listing all of the all of the things, the problems that americans associate with president biden, from the border crisis to high inflation, the afghanistan withdrawal disaster. but they go on to write, historians might be kinder to biden than his contemporaries are, as they have been to carter and to george h.w. bush. it seems like no matter who the president is, the longer they are out of office, the more history is able to put a nicer coat on their on the presidency and a nicer sheen. you're the president, you're the historian. so what should we expect? >> well, sometimes that's certainly true. >> i think some presidents really have fared better with time. >> others, like, you know, thomas jefferson and andrew jackson have actually gone down in american estimation. >> and i think that gets at a couple of things. >> it takes a long time to actually assess a presidential legacy, the legislation and the policies that they put in place

often take years, if not decades, to fully bear fruit. >> this was certainly true with some of the difficult decisions that carter made, and could be true with some of biden's legislation. >> i also think that sometimes we just don't have all the details. a lot of stuff is still classified, and so we need to get that information to have the full picture. >> and lastly, sometimes who comes after them shapes how we think of them. >> george w bush looks a lot better now in comparison than he did when he left office because of who came afterwards. >> well, i mean, immediately after him. >> president obama 100% true. >> absolutely. >> as i think even the next republican, the next republican, there were t-shirts made of george w bush saying, miss me? exactly. so you i keep saying you are the historian because you are the you you are the historian. so to your to your last comment about history, what are you going to be looking for? looking forward to finding out as the biden administration becomes the former biden

administration. >> well, i think there's still some information we need to know, especially around foreign policy things. i think that's kind of where biden's legacy is sort of in the hanging in the middle of the balance, and certainly around the withdrawal from afghanistan. i think we need to know a lot more information that's right now, classified. i think we need to see how things play out with ukraine. >> initially, biden and the intelligence community did a phenomenal job rallying our allies and bringing out information that would be helpful. >> but then maybe that support slowed or was stymied. and so how that unfolds, how that crisis ends, whenever it does finally end, i think will impact how we view biden. >> you know, we've heard in the past, you know, presidents that get into the job. >> and then next thing you know, during a break, they're in a book. they're coming out of a bookstore with, you know, a biography of one of their predecessors. who do you if you had a meeting with, with donald trump after he becomes the 47th president and he asks you, who who should i read about, whose

presidency? should i really sit down and take the time to, to learn about whose would it be? >> well, that's a really interesting question. i think probably president harding. >> i know it's not a not unexpected answer. >> yeah. >> harding surrounded himself with a bunch of his friends from ohio. >> they were known as the ohio gang, and they were his buddies, and they were yes men. and he let them do whatever they wanted in office. and it led to some of the biggest scandals in american history. and harding died before he bore a lot of the responsibility of that. >> but his name became synonymous with the teapot dome scandal, with corruption in the department of justice. >> and it's a, i think, a good warning lesson about who you surround yourself with in the cabinet and how you work with them. >> lindsay. chervinsky, historian, say it for the fifth time. thank you so much for coming back. thank you for having me. saturday show. >> thank you. >> and up next, working with trump, the new head of the democratic mayors association, says he's willing to work with the president elect and put aside partizan bickering to get

things done. cleveland mayor justin bibb joins me after the break. and another programing note starting monday, join rachel maddow as she hos five nights a week for the first 100 days of donald trump's presidency, offering her unique insights and analysis. alex wagner will also join from the field to cover the impact of trump's policies. watch the rachel maddow show weeknights at 9 p.m. eastern on msnbc. >> lumify. it's kind of amazing. >> wow. lumify eye drops dramatically reduce redness in one minute and look at the difference. >> my eyes look brighter and whiter for up to eight hours. whiter for up to eight hours. lumify (vo) oof, stuck paying for that old phone? don't be. ♪ you know, at verizon, we'll pay off your phone.

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designed for the next anything. >> with donald trump set to take the oath of office on monday, america's mayors will be on the front lines, contending with the second trump administration's decisions on everything from immigration to disaster relief. cleveland's democratic mayor, justin bibb, says he plans to work with the incoming trump administration when it benefits the citizens he was elected to serve, and he will play a key role in the democrat's response. today, mayor bibb was officially named the new president of the democratic mayors association. and joining me now is cleveland mayor justin bibb, the new president of the democratic mayors association. mr. mayor, mr. president, welcome back to the saturday show. >> good to be back with you. >> so talk more about the incoming trump administration and soon to be president trump. you say you will work with him when it means when it's to the benefit of your of your citizens. give me some examples. >> well, i'm here in dc this weekend for the u.s. conference

of mayors annual convening. and our number one priority as america's mayors is to address our housing crisis. and we need the incoming president and this republican led congress to work with mayors all across this country to fix housing. >> and i'm seeing this right now in cleveland. >> we just launched a new $100 million fund around more affordable and workforce housing with our local bank and lisc key bank. >> we're also looking at our homelessness crisis in cleveland, making sure that we get unsheltered residents a place to live. we're a few months away from ensuring that over 150 residents are housed and off our streets in our city. >> we also need this administration to work with us on public safety. >> under the leadership of president biden, democratic mayors all across the country made dramatic strides to reduce violent crime. last year in

cleveland, we reduced homicides by 26%. and so we need this president to work with mayors all across this country to keep that progress moving forward. >> and that's the positive agenda that you want to work with him on. and yet we've been talking this entire this entire hour about the president elect's agenda when it comes to mass deportations. when we started the show, it was all about the reporting in the wall street journal that it was going to they were going to start on tuesday in chicago. the washington post is reporting right now, trump officials haven't decided on post-inauguration chicago raids. the borders are. tom homan says, if ice comes to cleveland or if ice comes to any of the, the cities and the mayors who are part of the democratic mayors association. how do you work with the administration? how do you talk to the administration about the impact those raids are

having on your community? >> well, if there's anything we learned in this last year's election is that the american people want to see change when it comes to immigration in this country. and we know that immigrants play a major role in powering our cities and empowering our economy. and we need to make sure that we have common sense immigration reform with this new congress. but the american people want to be safe. and so it's important that the trump administration work with mayors on a more targeted, effective approach to ensure that if there's an undocumented immigrant who has committed a violent crime, they're a threat to public safety. absolutely. we are a country of rules and laws, but we need to fix our broken immigration system. and i'm willing to bet that the american people want to see a bipartisan

solution to this issue. we had a chance last year. politics got in the way. we can't afford politics to get in the way of this issue, because by having an immigration strategy that undermines our values as a country, it doesn't serve our long term interests as a country. >> you know, one of the things that's turning its way through congress right now is the lincoln riley act, which sort of broadens the reach of ice to anyone who has been accused of a misdemeanor petty crime like shoplifting. now you've got folks on the right who say, well, folks who are here undocumented have already committed a crime because it is against the law to come and come into the united states, the united states, illegally. but how concerned are you that the net has gotten much wider than just what he said on the campaign trail, which was violent, violent criminals who

also happen to be undocumented? >> yeah, it's a very big concern for me as mayor. i was just with my colleague several minutes ago talking about this critical issue. again, i think it's important that we have an immigration policy that has a targeted, effective approach around ensuring that we hold those that are a threat to public safety accountable in our cities. but we need an immigration solution in our country that reflects our values. >> and i will say it, a path to citizenship would be absolutely would be great. >> absolutely. >> cleveland mayor and president. the new president of the democratic mayors association almost made you a governor. democratic mayors association, justin bibb, thank you, as always, for coming to this saturday. >> thanks so much. >> thanks so much. >> and more of the where ya headed? susan: where am i headed? am i just gonna take what the markets gives me? no. i can do some research. ya know, that's backed by j.p. morgan's leading strategists like us.

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at rowe covid day. >> that'll do it for me in the saturday show. thanks for watching. there's a lot going on this weekend, so be sure to come back tomorrow for the sunday show. i'll welcome derrick johnson, president of the naacp. marc morial, president of the national urban league, and janine nelson janai nelson, president of the legal defense fund, for a conversation about celebrating mlk day. on the same day as the inauguration of donald trump and what they're watching for in the new administration. that's tomorrow at 6 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. keep it here. ayman