at rowe covid day. >> that'll do it for me in the saturday show. thanks for watching. there's a lot going on this weekend, so be sure to come back tomorrow for the sunday show. i'll welcome derrick johnson, president of the naacp. marc morial, president of the national urban league, and janine nelson janai nelson, president of the legal defense fund, for a conversation about celebrating mlk day. on the same day as the inauguration of donald trump and what they're watching for in the new administration. that's tomorrow at 6 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. keep it here. ayman is next.

>> good evening. tonight. >> tonight on ayman and nbc news exclusive interview with the president elect. just two days before he takes the oath with oligarchs by his side. and on the eve of a long awaited cease fire, israel's prime minister is making a very bold claim. plus, anti-abortion laws are being pushed to new extremes, including ways that retraumatize survivors. how do we fight back? i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. >> we are now less than two days from donald j. trump becoming president again. >> he is already kicking off this weekend's inaugural celebrations. in fact, he just landed at dulles airport in virginia a few minutes ago and will soon head to his virginia golf club. >> later tonight. >> we do expect to see a musical performances and a fireworks show, and we're going to keep you updated on his movements

throughout the evening. and now, before descending on d.c. tonight, trump gave a phone interview to my nbc news colleague kristen welker. they spoke for a total of 11 minutes, and in fact, he told kristen that monday's inauguration will be about unity, strength and fairness. this after trump decided friday to move his inaugural ceremony indoors to the capitol rotunda. >> due to frigid cold temperatures and winds being forecasted throughout the day. >> today, he told kristen that he feels great about this decision and for his supporters, however, it's a bit of a slap in the face. >> it's actually something that we've been looking forward to for historical purposes and being a part of it. >> that's once in a lifetime, absolutely made all the plans, all the arrangements that come up and be a part of this event. >> there's going to be a viewing party at capital one arena for folks, but nobody's going to be outside now. >> what's your reaction to that? >> well, so we're not going to get to see it in person then. is that correct? that's right.

well, i don't like it. i mean, we came all the way from washington, from oklahoma. and, you know, now we're not going to get to see it. we're like, we might as well stay at home and watch it on tv. >> not a good look if you ask me. trump is already showing that he doesn't see the very people who voted him into power and actually want to see him, because now, in order to witness trump become the next president, it seems like you're going to need money and you're going to need a lot of it, and you need access, just like the billionaires who will never have to worry about a wasted trip to washington to see trump whenever they want. >> i'm talking about the three richest men in the world elon musk, jeff bezos and mark zuckerberg. they all are seated together monday next to trump's cabinet nominees and other elected officials. >> now, as the current president warned us in his final address, democracy is on the line and donald trump will be inaugurated alongside a band of oligarchs, which, simply defined, is a very rich business leader with a great deal of political

influence. they've all certainly earned that title. >> zuckerberg recently announced that he is rolling back the fact checking program at meta. bezos and amazon are paying $40 million for a documentary on melania trump. and elon musk, of course, has spent over $250 million on trump's campaign and backing maga candidates. >> and it's not just them. >> trump's treasury secretary at least the pick for now, scott bessent, is also a billionaire. >> at his confirmation hearing this week, he advocated for reinstating the trump tax cuts from 2017, which we now know benefited only the rich, certainly not the middle class, despite what he claimed during that hearing on thursday. >> this is the single most important economic issue of the day. this is pass fail that if we do not the fix these tax cuts, if we do not renew and

extend, then we will be facing an economic calamity. and as always, with financial instability that falls on the middle and working class people. >> though bessent is touting it as a win for working class people. >> during that same hearing, he also said that he does not support raising the federal minimum wage. >> look, president biden warned us about an oligarchy of the ultra wealthy taking over america in his farewell address this week. >> after all, billionaire wealth has increased by 88% over the past five years, so it's anyone's guess what the future holds come monday, when a self-proclaimed billionaire and convicted felon takes the oath with maga billionaires by his side at the very capital that maga rioters defiled just four years ago. joining me now, angelo carusone, president of media matters, and maurice mitchell, national director of the working families party. it's

great to have both of you with us. maurice, i'll start with you and elon musk saying in october that americans would have to face hardships as a result of making our government more efficient. how do you square that with the very working class voters who led trump to victory, and perhaps some of those who are going to be disappointed that they won't see him on monday? >> well, i mean, there's a reason why we have the working families party say that billionaires shouldn't exist, right? >> so over the past ten plus years, because of citizens united, which was a supreme court ruling in 2010, this billionaire and corporate money has flooded our democracy. >> and it's reached its zenith with elon's more than $200 million investment in his preferred candidate, trump's election. >> and so he wants something very concrete for that investment. >> the reason why him and jeff bezos and mark zuckerberg are going to be lined up in a billionaires row on monday is for a very, very clear reason.

it's a good investment for them. they're looking for tax cuts. they're looking for cuts in regulations. and there are many, many companies. and they're also looking for a say in the direction of our democracy. i think of it kind of like a billionaire smash and grab. >> they are at risk men with hammers and they're smashing the american economy, smashing the american democracy, and they're looting the contents. >> and so i think we should all be concerned. but also i want everybody to remember that we have the power. >> but people, when we organize, we're able to challenge corporate power. >> we're able to challenge even very, very powerful people like elon musk and zuckerberg and others. and i think in this moment, it's not so much of a partizan moment because there's billionaires and there's corporate money on either side of the aisle. >> this is a time for everyday people to come together and organize against the billionaire class. >> and look, the faux populism of donald trump. he dropped that in a second. once he got elected, it's clear who he's

planning on supporting. he's supporting an agenda that might lead to elon musk becoming a trillionaire and us having to pay the price. >> angelo david remnick has a new piece in the new yorker where he writes that these multi-billionaires have shamelessly dispensed with principle to seek an indulgent new president's favor and enhance their fortunes. how dangerous could this get for everyday americans? is this just about, i mean, maybe walk us through how when these billionaires make more money and have more involvement in our politics, how does it become worse for the ordinary american? >> yeah, i think that's the question here about this in this moment, because as has already been discussed, money and politics has had a corrupting and corrosive effect ever, you know, even more so since citizens united that's that's been with us for a while. >> so what's the so what what's different about this moment and what's different about this moment is sort of what you said up there, which is that you have these in part, these sort of tech oligarchs, right, who have

an enormous and not just them, but then sort of their the people who once outside of them who control our information landscape or have disproportionate influence over it. and so one of the effects is that we start to we're at this inflection point where we can't go back. we're not just managing corruption and corrosive effects in politics. we're sort of moving to and dealing with sort of anti-democratic effects of having money in politics. we're on the other side now where we no longer have a functioning democracy. and what that means in practice is the following. you have not just them giving donations and hoping to get extra money in tax breaks, you know, sort of the standard fare, political kind of corruption on one layer. on top of that, zuckerberg is very explicit. not only is he going to roll back a bunch of policies and tip the scales in favor of right wing trump sort of narratives and agendas, but he's also going to expect something from the united states government. he's going to want trump, the trump administration, to pressure europe in particular, to stop to deregulate the, the sort of the rules that have been put in place against facebook. so there's going to be this

feedback loop between all of these players now that have put a bunch of money into the into the system, that are not just going to want some direct benefits to them, but they're going to want to leverage the united states government for more power and larger systemic changes. and i think we've just seen the effects of this in the last 24 hours. i mean, there's a massive crypto party launched by, again, a new industry that's dumping a bunch of money into the politics. and while all these people are there, but yukking it up and partying because trump is promising to do all kinds of things, including, you know, naming the sort of crypto czar that's going to help, you know, boost policies, maybe even have a strategic reserve. so dump a bunch of american public money into the crypto industry. he launches his own meme coin that is now worth, you know, had, you know, almost 100, 200% growth and had $30 billion market cap already. so this is the new environment that we're heading into. so to me, to sum it up, the so what is this. we're at an inflection point where we're not just managing corruption. we're at a transform. it could transform into a place where our democracy no longer functions. and that's kind of what the president was

getting to in his speech. >> thousands marched in dc today advocating for rights they believe will soon be under threat with trump's return to power. take a listen to what one of those protesters told my colleague. nbc news is julia jester. >> what is the difference between the mood in 2017 versus today? >> you know, in the in 2017, nobody knew what was to come. i mean, it was an unknown what was going to happen. but now we know what's going to come and it is going to be horrible. it is going to be horrible. >> democracy is on the line. everything is on the line. >> without democracy, all of our rights are at risk. so it's even more important to be out here now than it was. >> and i know everyone's exhausted. >> we're exhausted. >> talk to me about your work as you go forward. what is that going to look like on the ground between the threats and the fatigue that you heard in that lady's voice?

>> well, i could just speak from my experience organizing at the working families party. what we've seen is thousands and thousands of people around the country show up since november's election. and one of the other differences is that people aren't simply protesting. although i'm so excited that so many people are out today, people are beginning to organize and people are already planning to run for office on the local level, on on the municipal level, on the state level, and are already thinking about how to flip congress. right. like everyday people who are trying to get involved in their communities, bringing others together in order to push back against this oligarch agenda. that gives me a lot of hope. the fact that this this sort of billionaire maga has a already an opposition that is growing of everyday people that are getting together and already making a difference. >> angela, let's talk about the role of misinformation and disinformation. >> and obviously, as we saw and we're kind of talking about this

with mark zuckerberg and canceling the fact checking program at facebook. trump and his allies have already promised retribution against some in the media. how do journalists go about holding the line in this time around? >> i mean, media, legacy media, institutional media is coming under such intense attack from all different directions, fact checking, being rolled back. >> how do americans spot the truth? how do they stay up to date with accurate information? >> this is the antidote to the to dealing with a lot of the harms that are likely to unfold. we're going to need truth vigilantes, which is what journalists are supposed to be. and so that starts at the top. companies are going to have to stiffen their spine. there's been already a lot of sort of rolling over and settling. there was just some reporting recently that paramount was considering settling its defamation lawsuit. the trump defamation lawsuit against cbs. so. so because they have other deals that they want to make sure to get approved and are afraid of, that litigation goes forward, you know, that

will slow it down. they can't you have to fight these things out. we have to one be truth vigilantes. and then the second thing i would say, and it's a small bright spot, but it's an important thing, is that is to remember the following. that trump is starting as a lame duck does not mean that he cannot be harmful. that does not have power, but his power is going to be propped up, not just by these oligarchs, this money in politics. but we're on the verge of an information autocracy. so it's important that not just that journalists continue to stiffen their spines and to recognize that reality and speak truth to power and be truth vigilantes, but that individuals not get cowed so quickly into submission that this emperor has no clothes, no clothes moment actually ends up becoming the reality. we can't be fooled by sort of the projection of power and the illusion of power that he's presenting, because it is truly anti-democratic. it's not going to be with the people. this sort of faux populism that's been discussed. we have to pierce that bubble. so to me, those are the two things we need journalists to actually do. this is their moment to shine, and it's probably their last chance. if they don't, if they don't

sort of follow through with their profession. but the second part is that we all have to remember the reality of this moment, and that doesn't mean we have to be hysterical and overreact, but we also have to recognize that we can't sort of anticipate and sort of immediately fold because of fear, because that's the only thing that's going to let all of these things sort of topple over. information, autocracy, actual autocracy. those are the two ingredients here. we're in a social media environment. our own participation matters. but it starts with journalists. >> yeah, very important words there. as we look upon a second trump presidency. angela carusone, thank you so much, maurice. >> please stick around. >> i want to discuss what trump suddenly does not want to talk about next. and trump told nbc news what he will do right after his inaugural speech. stick his inaugural speech. stick around to find out. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms better than an antidepressant alone. vraylar is not approved for elderly patients

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get the 5-year price lock guarantee, now back for a limited time. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities™. >> i feel like i'm a completely different person. get growing at nutrafol. com. >> all right, we are back now with pictures from dulles airport in virginia, where president elect donald trump has just landed to kick off his inaugural week celebrations. >> we expect him to walk off. as you see, making his way down off the plane, walking down a bit dark, but walking down onto the tarmac where he will head to his golf resort. we expect there tonight to have some fireworks and the beginning of many celebrations for guests and dignitaries. over the course of the next several days. we'll keep an eye on all these events, and certainly throughout the course of the evening, and bring you any news as it warrants. >> of course, the president

elect spoke to my colleague earlier today, kristen welker, in an exclusive interview. >> he confirmed that he will be taking executive action right after his inauguration speech on monday. he says that he is not determined how many executive actions he will be signing, but that he believes it will be a record setting number. of course, we can expect many of them to address trump's biggest campaign promises, and he made it very clear in november, again with kristen welker, which issues propelled him to victory. watch. >> but i won on the border and i won on groceries. >> it's a very simple word. groceries. like almost. you know who uses the word? i started using the word the groceries. when you buy apples, when you buy bacon, when you buy eggs. they were double and triple the price over a short period of time. and i won an election based on that. we're going to bring those prices way down. >> so a week after that groceries interview, trump

started lowering expectations, telling time magazine of grocery prices, it's hard to bring things down once they're up. you know, it's very hard. well, now, as he is set to be inaugurated monday, he suddenly doesn't want to talk about the economy. instead of groceries, you know, groceries, bacon, eggs, apples. he's more focused on greenland, the panama canal, and picking fights with california's leaders as los angeles burns. now, one reason could be the economic news. as of late, there's frankly not much for him to complain about. he's inherited a healthy economy. last week's jobs report showed that the us added 256,000 jobs in december, as the unemployment rate dropped to 4.1%. wages grew 3.9% for the year, and inflation has been under 3% since the summer, and economic growth remains strong. another reason? well, it could be that he's already started selling off government policy to the wealthy and abandoning the

working class. morris mitchell from the working families party is back with me. morris, what's behind trump's shift on this? not talking about grocery prices anymore and the economy. as much as it seems that he is shifting to all sorts of new things like, you know, greenland, the panama canal, trying to acquire new territory, perhaps renaming the gulf of mexico to the gulf of america, you know, important things. >> well, this is a mask off moment, right? >> he campaigned on a faux populism. it wasn't really clear the direction of the populism. i like to call it sort of hulk hogan populism. i don't know if you remember that scene when hulk hogan ripped his shirt off. yeah. it's like i'm with you guys exactly how somehow vaguely, you know, drilling for oil and tariffs will lead to prosperity. >> we're going to bring down grocery prices somehow. >> he's won. >> so he no longer needs to continue that charade. >> and he could focus on his priority, which is making elon

musk the first trillionaire. right. which is making sure that the billionaires that he's going to have on his billionaire row are satisfied. right. and i have a sneaky suspicion that when it comes down to it, that will be his mandate, ensuring that those tax cuts go through. and when that happens, many people, including some people who voted for him, will begin to understand what the true intentions of donald trump, maga and his billionaire backers are. >> and i think there's going to be some rifts in his voter coalition. >> and i think there might even be some rifts in his billionaire coalition. right. >> these are men with huge egos, each one of them who believe that they should probably run the country in the world. >> and i find it hard to believe that he's going to be able to keep his coalition together as tightly. once we begin to see the true intentions on the new republic's gregg sergeant wrote on friday. >> this will be the second time trump inherits a good economy from a democratic president. the second time trump takes credit for his inheritance, and quite

possibly the second time he destroys it. >> and of course, the first time around, a big part of that was the covid pandemic and the response he led. >> it could have been different, but that is what it is. it's how he decided to lead the country at the time by undermining covid. how did democrats make him own that and own inflation and own every economic problem? the way the republicans were able to do to biden? >> well, campaigning is very different than governing. so he does own the economy. he does own what happens in congress. he will own whether or not he focuses, instead of making sure that the american economy is stable on trying to maybe invade greenland or invade panama or, you know, buy a foreign country, all of this is misdirection, his focus on, you know, scapegoating immigrants and other other, other groups. it's misdirection. so we don't focus on his true intentions. right. >> the, the naked intention is money and power.

>> his ability to be able to win money in power and then basically carve up the american economy and the american and democracy and then sell it off to his billionaire friends. and it's going to be apparent the american people are smarter than that, and they're going to understand what the ruse is. >> and i think they republicans, trump, the maga coalition, are going to have a rude awakening when they realize that they're going to have to own everything. they have a governing majority they need to deliver. >> and the minute that they don't deliver for american people, but deliver for corporations and many of those billionaires, that trust will be broken and they will have to own it. >> all right. morris mitchell, good to see you as always. thank you so much for your insights. greatly appreciate it. >> it's good to be here. >> up next, we are just hours away from a cease fire that away from a cease fire that seems to be hanging by a thread. dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel

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things are taking an unexpected turn. nbc news is reporting that trump's middle east envoy, steve witkoff, is considering a visit to gaza. no one from the biden administration has visited gaza well in years. news of woodcock's potential visit comes after a series of confusing messages today. earlier tonight, the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, released a video message and he made it clear this ceasefire is only temporary. he said israel reserves the right to resume attacks on gaza and that, in fact, they have the support of the united states. he also mentioned a call with president elect trump and according to netanyahu, trump confirmed that the ceasefire is meant to be temporary. >> at the same time, far right israeli ministers are speaking out. >> they are pushing for the war to continue and even calling on israel for a takeover of the gaza strip. and then there's

trump. earlier today, he told nbc news that the ceasefire, quote, better hold. but in the same breath, he said that he told netanyahu to keep doing what you have to do. the first phase of the cease fire calls for a pause in fighting the release of dozens of hostages and the release of palestinian prisoners. i spoke with amir tibon, a senior columnist at haaretz, about the cease fire and the hostages. take a listen. >> amir, thank you so much for joining us. >> let's start with the statement that was put out today by the israeli prime minister in that video. he said that during his phone call with president elect trump, trump emphasized that this was a temporary cease fire. you also had the finance minister, bezalel smotrich, also saying that netanyahu had committed to him to a gradual takeover of gaza and keeping it uninhabitable. we've seen the prime minister take the potential cease fire deals repeatedly by tanking them. how do statements like these impact the cease fire deal that's

supposed to start in a few hours? >> so what we're seeing is netanyahu putting out contradictory messaging to his own coalition partners, especially those from the far right who hate this deal and voted against it, even though it is supposed to bring us back. if it works out, all of our hostages from gaza, and if only the first phase comes through, then 33 of those hostages, which i think we should strive and work very hard to get everybody out of there and to get this deal implemented in full. but they voted against it, even though they think that just in the first phase you could get 33 hostages. so to these people like smotrich, who you mentioned, netanyahu is saying this is a temporary cease fire, will get however much hostages we can get, and then the war will be renewed. but to the

hostage families at the same time, and most importantly, to president elect trump, he's been saying something different that we're going to get all of the hostages back, that we're going to stand by this deal. and, you know, i mean, if this deal is fully implemented, then israel gets back all of the 98 hostages and the war in gaza is over. there is no place in this deal for the war to be renewed. unless, of course, hamas does not honor the deal and does not release the hostages, which then, of course, you would have an overwhelming majority in israel supporting the renewal of the war. but most israelis, if you ask them today, should we go through with this deal, not just phase one, but also phase two and three and end the war in return for the release of all the hostages? this has a clear majority in israel. problem is, the majority is not represented in the netanyahu coalition,

where you have a strong minority that wants to continue the war. >> yeah. you answered actually the second question i was going to ask you about, which is the actual end of the war, if this deal does go completely through without any violations, you put the violations on the side, assuming that both parties commit to it, it means that israel will have to accept that hamas is still and has survived. and is that something this government in israel is prepared to admit, because they just entered into an agreement with hamas? and by definition, if they commit and stay and release all of the 98 hostages, plus all of the bodies and everything, then at the end of it, hamas has not been destroyed. >> that's true. >> but hamas will remain a terror organization according to all the international definitions. and i think that actually, if the war is over and the hostages are back, israel will have a mandate

internationally to apply a lot of pressure on hamas, not militarily, not by renewing the war, but through other means, economic and diplomatic and other ways to isolate hamas, to pressure hamas to give up power in gaza and to be replaced by a different palestinian government. and one of the key problems here throughout the last 15 months has been that israel put out a clear goal for the war to end hamas's rule over gaza. but this specific israeli government, for political reasons, has not presented a credible plan for what would happen in gaza once hamas is removed and who would replace hamas? and there is, i think, an overwhelming consensus in the world today that hamas is a terrible organization, a murderous organization that should not remain in power in gaza and should be replaced. but the question is, what is the way

to do it? is another few months of war now in gaza, during which many of our hostages could die? the way to achieve it, or a diplomatic plan supported by the united states, by egypt, by saudi arabia, which is also, you know, involvement of the palestinian authority and other regional actors. and this is something that you could actually implement much more effectively once the war is over. >> let me ask you if i can, amir. >> and we're almost out of time. i apologize, but there was some question about this deal and the role that president trump played and whether or not he used a lot of leverage against the prime minister. others are saying the prime minister wanted to give him this win, knowing that there will be prime minister. >> i'm not against the prime minister in favor of the hostages. he used a lot of leverage in favor of the hostages. he put pressure on hamas, but also on netanyahu because he wants the hostages back home, and not just the 33 hostages of the first phase of this deal, that president elect

trump had a major role in getting. i give him the most credit of all the actors involved. it is a deal that is supposed to bring us back all the hostages and end the war. and yes, he applied leverage because that was the way to do it. that was the way. if he had not gotten involved, i don't think we would have had this deal right now. but it's important to remember the deal is still not secure. there are still strong forces who want to try to make this deal fail, and we actually really need it to work so that we can get back all of our people. it's not against anybody. it's in favor of the hostages. >> thank you so much. i was just kidding. that's exactly what i was going to ask you about. about how this is being perceived and how this deal is actually being perceived there in israel with donald trump's role. amir tibon, thank you so much. it's good to see you. always appreciate it. thanks for staying up late for us. >> thank you for having me. >> next, south korea shows what accountability can look like in a healthy democracy. and next hour, president biden's warning about the power of the tech

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with moving or balance may occur. take control by asking your doctor about ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ the incoming trump administration. >> donald trump wants a presidential cabinet full of loyalists. >> don't miss the weekend, saturday and sunday mornings at 8:00 on msnbc the first 100 days. >> it's a critical time for our country. and rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> now is the time. so we're going to do it. >> settle in the rachel maddow show five nights a week, beginning monday. >> on monday, millions of americans and the world will watch donald trump, a convicted felon, be sworn in as president for the second time. a man who dodged accountability on countless fronts corruption, insurrection, election interference, and much more.

republicans, for their part, let it slide. and one can argue american institutions did as well. across the world. however, a much different story with a leader much like trump as trump takes office, south korea's president yoon suk yeol has become the first sitting south korean president to be arrested, and he is being accused of leading an insurrection. sound familiar? the lead up to this started weeks ago when yoon declared martial law. he claimed that north korea posed an imminent threat, and then came the rest of his order. that sounded like a trumpian fantasy, quite frankly. yoon announced a total ban on protests, strikes, political activity and anything that might disrupt social order. he said the media would be placed under martial law. well, the south korean public didn't buy it and forced him to reverse it, and for good reason. yoon's approval rating was a dismal 17%. his presidency was already hanging by a thread. as president, he tried to scrap the

gender equality agency and pushed for a highly unpopular 69 hour workweek. yes, 69 hours. he blamed feminism for low birth rates, and there were scandals galore involving shady gifts, sketchy deals and suppressing the media. all of that made his martial law announcement the final straw. protests erupted. the country pushed back. he evaded his first arrest attempt, but not a second. it took more than 3000 officers to find and then ultimately detain him. the lead up to his arrest was an easy, and it obviously took a lot of manpower. yet south korea did it, and they did it quickly. perhaps that's because the country has a long standing tradition of holding corrupt leaders to account. since its founding after world war two. nearly all south korean presidents have faced corruption allegations, impeachment or prosecution. only a few have left office peacefully. 2018 former president park was impeached and sentenced to more than 20 years in prison for soliciting bribes and leaking

classified information. now park's predecessor was also sentenced to 15 years in prison for bribery. yoon ultimately pardoned him. what's striking about this is witnessing how south korea's institutions held, as we, the united states, see our guardrails being put to the test time and time again. and there's reason for us to worry. trump has paid little price for his convictions, aside from carrying the label of convicted felon. he has cemented the supreme court to the right for a generation. and since he left office, that same court has ruled that he and every president are now immune from prosecution for official acts. trump and maga have also spent years cementing courts to the right across the country, which will inevitably help them fight on the state level. as for the d.o.j, we know what trump wants based on the devout loyalists he's picked to lead our justice system. so seeing south korea work to preserve its democracy is certainly notable and worth thinking about, especially as we

here head into monday. because as we all can see, conditions as we all can see, conditions are ripe for more (vo) oof, stuck paying for that old phone? don't be. ♪ you know, at verizon, we'll pay off your phone. and you'll get iphone 16 with apple intelligence, on us. now with genmoji. that's a value of up to sixteen hundred dollars. only on verizon. pieces are all about comfort, luxury. it's not only high quality, but it's also affordable. >> get $20 off your first purchase at quince comm. >> many abused and neglected animals are hungry and need help right now.

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rachel maddow. chart topping series, msnbc original podcasts, exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> when you were a florida attorney general, you defended restrictive abortion laws, including mandatory waiting periods and parental consent requirements. if confirmed as attorney general, would you advocate for similar restrictions at the federal level? >> i will follow the law of the united states of america. >> so that was donald trump's nominee for attorney general, pam bondi, not ruling out advocating for restrictive abortion laws if she gets the job. frankly, there's no reason for her to be coy about it. the man who nominated her won the election despite bragging about his role in overturning roe versus wade and, to say the least, anti-abortion republicans are more emboldened than ever. just take indiana, for example. you've got a new bill there,

introduced by the senator, mike young, a republican, would require victims of rape to present doctors with a signed affidavit attesting to the truth of their assault in order to receive an abortion. young argues the bill protects women. experts, including my next guest, warned the bill retraumatizes survivors of sexual assault. doctor caitlin bernard is a ob gyn in indianapolis who has been sounding the alarm on this new bill. she joins me now. doctor, it's great to have you on the show. talk us through the dangers of this bill as you see them. >> yeah, i think bills like this show that there is really no such thing as compromise for anti-abortion extremists. even strict abortion bans like we already have here in indiana, with few exceptions, aren't enough for them. and unfortunately, our republican legislators are being bought and paid for by those same extremists instead of representing the people of indiana. polls show time and

again that most hoosiers support abortion in most or all cases. and this is going directly against the wishes of the people of the state. instead, they have enacted a strict abortion ban. it already gives a very short time frame within which rape survivors can seek abortions in indiana, and this proposed bill would further burden those people who are already traumatized. it requires physicians to police their own patients, forcing them to sign legal documents. and the risk is perjury. and that includes going to jail. who would sign such a document? >> as i understand it, the bill outlaw outlaws abortion pills as well. is that your understanding? >> yes. >> and that includes all drugs that we use for abortion. >> for example, they've already banned the procedure. surgical procedure for abortion in the second trimester. and so this law would go further to essentially ban all abortion in the second trimester, except in

immediately life threatening situations. so that essentially already rules out the few exceptions that we have for conditions like lethal fetal anomalies. >> what are you hearing from patients in indianapolis about this bill? as we approach a second trump term and whether or not we're going to see more of these types of bills that are emboldened and more extreme and more restrictive. >> people are scared. they're scared that, you know, even for wanted pregnancies with complications, they're not going to be able to get the care that they need. >> we see stories from all over the country of women facing deadly risks and even death. and they know that these laws will put their lives in danger and put their health in danger. >> as we know and as we've talked a lot about on this show, this is not just a situation limited to indiana. the washington post is reporting that the texas right to life

organization, as well as the state attorney general, ken paxton, they're both actively recruiting men to file lawsuits over their ex-partners abortions. what do you make of that and where this trend is going in our country? >> it's incredibly scary to imagine that, you know, your partner or ex-partner, your physician, even. we're seeing with a case in ohio, nurses that are taking care of you, supposed to be taking care of you in the hospital are being essentially armed with legal means to be vigilantes, to go after women, to call police in cases that they think something has happened that was wrong. there's a lot of confusion about our ban in indiana. we get calls every day from physicians and people not sure if they can provide

appropriate life saving and legal care for patients, and to imagine that this is going to spread not just from banned states, but potentially nationwide, to imagine that, you know, we won't be able to have the option to help people get one state over to illinois. we don't know where people will be able to get the care that they need if it's everywhere. >> you know, perhaps there are some women who are watching this from indiana. what is your message to those women in indiana who are indiana, who are terrified not only by this bill, but about the fate of reproductive care over the next four years? in your state, is there anything that can be done right now short of politics or change in in the political landscape of indiana? >> my message is the same that it has always been. we physicians in indiana want to take care of people in our state. we want to be able to use our judgment to carry out the

ethical bond that we have as a physician with our patients, to protect them in all cases, including when they need an abortion. and we commit to being able to do that within the limits of the law in indiana for as long as we can. that being said, your voice and your stories are the most important thing that we have. it's hard to help people to understand why this is so dire, why this is so important until they're faced with the risk themselves, until they have a pregnancy with complications or a risk to their life or or an unwanted pregnancy. you can't understand what that's like until you're in their shoes. so the more that we talk about it, both within communities as well as speak up to our legislators, both at the state level as well as national, is the only way that we will

begin to turn the tide back. >> let me ask you a more personal question, because in 2023, you were reprimanded by the state's medical licensing board for speaking publicly about providing an abortion to a ten year old rape victim who had to travel across state lines for care. do you worry about being targeted again for speaking out again? >> absolutely. all abortion providers in every band state are worried. we're in fear for our medical licenses. we're in fear for our families, our ability to continue to provide the lifesaving care that we do every single day. but we also know that we can't back down when there are no physicians to provide the abortions. there might as well be a complete ban. that's how little care will be able to be accessed. and so we, you know, pledge to continue to fight as long as we can. >> all right. well, we're going to keep our eye on this story.

and doctor caitlin bernard, we look forward to having you back on the show. as things progress in your state and across the country on this very important issue. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> a new hour of amen starts >> a new hour of amen starts after here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max! i need to get me a new phone. you need to trade-in that busted up phone and get you a brand new iphone 16 pro at t-mobile. it's on them. families save 20% every month. what a deal! new and existing customers, trade in your busted old phone, and we'll give you a new iphone 16 pro with apple intelligence on us. ♪♪ dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye: too much tear evaporation. for relief that's ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪

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>> sometimes. great talent is right under your nose. >> on this new hour of a man with less than 48 hours left in the white house, joe biden has some of us asking, what if, with his strong farewell address to the nation, plus fiery confirmation hearings