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>> he is currently floating a plan to get around the tiktok ban. it's a plan that's already facing opposition, even from within his own party. and then, of course, there's the cease fire between israel and hamas that began today with the release of israeli hostages and palestinian prisoners just hours ago. we'll have much more on that story ahead, but we begin our coverage with the latest on events taking place today in the run up to inauguration day. >> right now, a maga rally is underway at the capital one arena in washington, dc, where both president elect donald trump and vice president elect jd vance will speak in the next hour or so, following appearances by supporters including hulk hogan and kid rock. >> it follows a much more solemn affair that occurred this afternoon when trump, vance and two gold star family members laid wreaths at the tomb of the unknown soldier in arlington national cemetery. >> meanwhile, president biden is set to take the stage at any moment in what will be the last

public remarks of his presidency, wrapping up a day spent in south carolina that included a tribute to the legacy of the reverend martin luther king jr and some new pardons. >> we'll keep an eye on all of that. >> but right now, let's head over to nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard, who joins me now from inside the maga rally where trump is slated to speak. >> vaughn, yesterday, the president elect announced that the inauguration will be conducted indoors in the capitol rotunda because of the cold. and obviously that rotunda cannot comfortably accommodate the many supporters who have traveled to dc to see donald trump take the oath of office. how is the crowd taking this news of the venue change, and what's the mood like at today's rally? >> right. >> there are literally tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of folks. melissa, that flew in for what it was anticipated to be your traditional inauguration out on the mall. now we're looking at temperatures, highs to be in the mid 20s, frigid conditions. and so instead, inauguration, for

the first time since ronald reagan in 1985, it's going to happen in the capitol rotunda. and that is where today's rally is much more of the traditional trump rally. since we're going to see donald trump, jd vance, members of the first family. but people also like steve witkoff, who is that special envoy who was on the front lines of negotiations between hamas and israel. he's going to be speaking among other trump allies on this stage, of course. that's kid rock behind me right now. here in this arena, about 20,000 people are able to fit inside here. and for donald trump, the rally component is an important part. and what we expect to be a mostly off script event tomorrow, though, there's going to be the pomp and circumstance of the inauguration, but also a major policy implications of donald trump being sworn in at high noon. executive orders anticipated to be signed. we are waiting to hear what the specifics are about those executive orders. but over the next 24 hours, we are going to see a sea change of the power

dynamic in washington, dc, with republican majorities in the house and the senate. and, of course, donald trump about to reenter the white house race. >> and we're already seeing some glimmers of what that transition might look like. >> speaking with regard to tiktok, which is now working again for millions of americans, the platform has blocked service to u.s. users overnight and is restoring service. >> but only after donald trump made assurances to the company's service providers that legal liability would not follow. >> can you take us through what has happened and what is likely to come next? >> right. >> for tiktok here last night before the today's deadline, in which it was slated under the law that was passed with bipartisan support in congress and signed into law by president biden in the late hours of last night, the app went offline. and on the message that was posted by tiktok at the time, they said that they looked forward to president trump's commitment to essentially finding a way for

tiktok to come back on to the us market and us users, 170 million to be able to use them. and that's exactly what took place today. and notably, when you look at the tiktok statement, they noted that president trump elected trump, made the commitment that there would be no repercussions for the likes of apple and those providers that make tiktok available? there were potentially because this is the law. there is a situation where the department of justice could go after those major tech companies. but donald trump saying and making the pledge that his department of justice would not take the prosecute the apple or google or other providers of the tiktok app. at the same time, you have seen senator tom cotton, republican, come out with his own tweet because if you recall, members like tom cotton, they pushed back against tiktok being available to users because of

the chinese parent company. they would have access to american data. and it was tom cotton that called into question this decision and this commitment from the incoming president is republican ally for the decision to essentially make tiktok available to users again, without the potential that the doj would step in and file lawsuits against these major tech companies. so there's a lot at play here. and i think that, honestly, michael waltz is incoming national security adviser to donald trump today. his own words were notable. and i want to let you listen to it, in which he was clearly suggesting the administration was weighing the desire for american users to use it. and i believe that we have to go to jump to president biden. so i'll send it back to you, melissa. >> all right. >> thanks so much for that update. >> we are waiting to get some feed from president biden, who is slated to begin his remarks, the final remarks of his presidency. but before we get there, let's bring in our political panel to talk about some of the things that vaughn just raised. >> so joining me now is peter

baker, the chief white house correspondent for the new york times and an msnbc political analyst. >> also with us is charlie sykes, a columnist and msnbc contributor. >> and rounding us out is juanita tolliver, an msnbc political analyst, as well as the author of the book a more perfect party the night shirley chisholm and diahann carroll reshape politics. peter, let me, let me turn to you in this tiktok ban, donald trump has said he's going to issue an executive order that proposes a way forward. >> that proposed solution involves a theoretical 5050 partnership between an american company and bytedance, the current chinese owned owner of tiktok. >> this raises a number of red flags. first, a 5050 partnership with bytedance does not solve the problem of chinese ownership as is required under the ban. and second, an executive order that ignores the law, which requires the divestiture and was enacted by congress with bipartisan support and upheld by the supreme court, suggests that donald trump may have a very broad view of his own authority here, certainly with respect to the other two branches of

government. >> what will this suggest going forward for how donald trump will wield the powers of the presidency relative to those coordinate branches going forward? >> yeah, i think it's a fair point. i mean, look, the law does allow a president to issue a 90 day, you know, pause in effect, in order to seek a deal. it's supposed to be a negotiation going on. we don't see a negotiation going on, but he's trying to start one. >> but you're right to ask the question, you know, how far does donald trump intend to push the boundaries of the separation of powers? >> how far does he plan to try to, you know, accumulate power unto himself? he's made very clear during the campaign and the post-election transition that he wants congress to defer to him, whether it be on budgetary issues, whether it be on immigration issues, whether it be on all sorts of matters, even even who they pick as speaker or chairman of committees. >> and so i think that it's a fair question to ask how far will he go in his desire to be

the single decision maker in washington? >> well, charlie, it may not just be about being the single decision maker in washington, but really about being the dealmaker in chief. >> donald trump has said that he doesn't want companies to let tiktok stay dark ahead of his inauguration, and he wants to keep this going. and the tiktok ceo is actually going to be at the inauguration tomorrow. and some have suggested that this might be an effort to curry favor with the new administration if this is the case. >> is this how things are going to work going forward on side deals with the administration, as opposed to the more traditional politicking that we've seen in other administrations? >> well, i think it's definitely the way you're going to see it. i mean, clearly the ceo of tiktok knows exactly how to butter up donald trump. but the politics of this are fascinating and very clearly, donald trump is going to score a easy political win in his first few days. but it is remarkable how

it has shifted. when this law was passed, it had overwhelming bipartisan support, including among republicans. when it passed the committee, it was it passed 52 to nothing. you have strong conservative republican support for it because of national security concerns. >> donald trump comes in and he decides that he's going to put this transactional, his transactional approach to politics ahead of the concerns about national security. >> either tiktok poses a very real threat to national security and to the privacy of americans, as an overwhelming majority of congress members of congress thought, or it is something that simply can be dealt off. >> and, you know, you know, donald trump is reading the political tea leaves. >> he understands the politics has changed, and americans right now are much more concerned with keeping their social media platform than they are with challenging chinese, the chinese. >> that's all terrific context. it's also worth noting, charlie,

that donald trump actually floated an executive order dealing with the threat posed by tiktok in august of 2020, so he actually got there first before he was against the ban. but juanita, let's turn to immigration, which has concerned a lot of individuals across the country. the washington post is reporting that border czar tom homan says that his plan for a big show of force as early as tuesday may actually be changing, since details of those raids have leaked. what do you make of the possible pullback, and how should individuals and the cities that are likely to be targeted prepare for what's to come? given this uncertainty? >> yeah, melissa, i wouldn't consider it a pullback versus a minor shift because thomas homan has been clear that this is coming to cities across the country, no matter what state they are in. >> and i emphasize that because this means if you live in a red state or a blue state, donald trump and his administration will be targeting immigrants in that state. and i think that when i think about localities, what thomas homan doesn't like about this leak is that

localities have been able to develop a type of response. that response includes educating people who may be undocumented or living in families with mixed immigration status about their rights, about their right to due process, about training programs, about who to call if they are detained and apprehended. the other thing is that we saw the city council in chicago go ahead and block an effort to allow the local police force to coordinate with ice agents. so this is the type of response i think we should be keeping an eye out in localities across the country, because it is going to come down to those state and local leaders who, for example, in chicago, which is considered a sanctuary city, have that similar designation, what protections they're going to be able to provide to immigrants, and what coordination efforts with ice could look like. but i think the overarching theme here is that it's still going to happen. >> and that's why i say it's not a pullback, merely a pivot. >> peter, speaking of these efforts to resist the incoming trump administration, you have a piece out in the new york times

today titled defiance is out. >> deference is in. >> trump returns to a different washington. >> can you give us the crib notes of today's piece? and basically, how do you expect us to shift from the resistance movement to something that seems more like resignation? >> yeah. i mean, look, it's a very different mood today than we saw on the eve of the last the last inauguration of donald trump eight years ago, the last time he came to power, there was this sense of shock. >> there was a sense of outrage on the left. >> and even among a lot of republicans and conservatives, there were a 500,000 people in the streets. >> the day after his inauguration to protest his come to power called the women's march. >> yesterday we saw an effort to try to reproduce some of that with calling it the people's march. but really only, you know, several thousand, a number of thousand, you know, and they felt strongly, but they obviously didn't create the same crowd level that they did eight years ago. you hear from a lot of people now, billionaires, you know, rushing to mar-a-lago to

curry favor with trump, preemptively getting rid of their dna and climate policy, signing seven figure checks to his inaugural committee. you see all kinds of, you know, even democrats, some democrats talking about working with them and republicans who stood up to him, at least some of them eight years ago, are either gone or willing to accept nominees they never would have accepted eight years ago. >> so it's a different atmosphere today in washington than we saw the last time around. >> juanita, let's pivot to the outgoing administration. >> president joe biden has issued five more pardons, including a posthumous pardon to marcus garvey, the leader of the 1920s pan-african movement. can you tell us more about this pardon for marcus garvey, a figure that many americans may not know that much about? >> yeah. so marcus garvey was charged and targeted under a claim of mail fraud and then deported, i believe, to jamaica. >> and so the issue here was

that with president biden's pardon, it recognizes that that charge may have been motivated by targeting, because marcus garvey led a movement that was based on pride and identity, pride in blackness, pride, and the challenge to a system that was full of racism and discrimination and preferred the coward posture of black people in this country. >> and so by leading that movement, he sparked a sense of pride. >> he stirred that up in black individuals, and that was something that prompted him to be targeted for this type of charge. now, when i think about marcus garvey and his legacy, i think president biden, through his his pardon today, recognize the impact of that, recognize that garvey's leadership prompted a new slate of civil rights leaders, including malcolm x, who who have done work to transform race conversations in this country. >> and i just appreciate president biden for doing this on his last full day in office, because it is a marker. >> it is one less thing that he could deliver for advocates, especially to black people in

this country. >> recognizing the legacy of marcus garvey and issuing that pardon. >> so, charlie, while we're talking, oh, actually, i think we're just getting some sound from president biden. so let's go right there to president biden in south carolina. >> before i go any further, though, i do want to introduce my family, the love of my life and the life of my love of my daughter, ashley biden. stand up. ashley. ashley is a social worker protecting abused women in philadelphia. and god love you kid. and my son, hunter biden, the smartest man i ever. and my grandson named after his uncle. beau's not here. beau biden. and the beautiful lady sitting next to hunter is hism south africa. look, folks, jill and i shared, we have we have,

we shared. we felt that the power of prayer for so many of you across south carolina has made a big deal, for there's been a big deal for us, for real. that's why at our last full day in office, we wanted to be here with you in south carolina. we started this morning in church to reflect on the power of faith in god and each other, and our democracy. here at this museum, we reflect on the power of history, redeeming the soul of a nation. i'm honored to be here in just toward this sacred ground. just as i toured another museum last month in angola and the wind and the waves, we could hear them. could hear them. the young women and men born free in the highlands of angola, only to be captured, bound and forced on a death march by slave traders in the year 1619, the start of a

250 years of slave trade across africa and the caribbean to the shores of america. the start of america's original sin. they were baptized into a foreign faith. against their will. their names were changed against their will, condemned to slave ships bound for what they call the middle passage between africa and america. many did not survive the journey, and the many who did survive arrived in the charleston. excuse me. gadsden wharf and along the cooper river. when their feet touched this land, iron shackles literally dug into their skin. they were forced to build a 840 foot wharf, the largest single port of entry for enslaved people in the american history. and standing here, we hear them again in the wind and the waves,

their pain, their fear, their anguish. but we also hear something else their faith to survive, their faith in each other, their faith to hope pass through generations. this museum is so important because it embodies the trauma and the triumph of the african-american experience, and it embodies the truth that black history is american history. yes, we have black culture. >> black culture is american. >> president joe biden speaking in charleston, south carolina, noting the importance of this southern city not just for him personally, but also in the history of this nation. >> it was a major slave port during the period of enslavement, and it also was the place where the civil war started. >> juanita, what do you make of this historic speech? the last speech of joe biden's presidency? and what does it mean for his legacy to be here

in this place at this moment? >> i truly appreciate him going back to south carolina, because it's a nod to the fact that he only achieved the office of the presidency in that election in 2020 through the south carolina primary. south carolina black voters in that state were the ones who revived his his campaign after multiple other primary losses. >> and so it's fitting that he's ending his presidency in this place that granted him the pathway to even secure it in the 2020 election. >> i appreciate his his history lesson here, because i think it's something that people need to be reminded of, of the reality of the challenges that black people have experienced in this nation since being brought here in the international slave trade, but also on the eve of martin luther king junior day, i heard bernice king earlier this weekend talk about one critical question she hopes people will ask themselves on monday with the juxtaposition of martin luther king day and trump's inauguration. and that question is, am i willing to make the

sacrifices necessary? when i hear president biden talk about the sacrifices experienced by black people throughout the history of this country? when i when i think about that, it truly is a marker in this moment that we're experiencing collectively. >> all right. >> juanita tolliver, thanks so much for being with us today. >> peter baker and charlie sykes, we're going to ask you to stick around so we can talk to you later. >> again in this hour, but coming up in just 90s, a tenuous cease fire begins at the release of israeli hostages and palestinian prisoners. but the palestinian prisoners. but the big question will it (♪♪) hi neighbor! you switched to t-mobile home internet yet? trim your hedge. it's $35 bucks a month with no price hikes! bam! it runs on t-mobile's wireless 5g network, so all you gotta do is plug in one cord! t-mobile 5g home internet. just $35 bucks a month. and with price lock, we won't raise your rate on internet. i did it! aaahh!! i switched to t-mobile home internet, and i am loving it! don't sneak up on me like that.

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one beats ten. prilosec otc. >> welcome back. we are closely following the developing situation in tel aviv, as hostages and prisoners have been released under a tentative ceasefire between israel and hamas. you can see here. on the screen, families and supporters gathered to welcome the hostages home in this historic moment and across the ocean. president biden had this to say about the successful hostage release that transpired with just 24 hours left in his administration. >> the deal that i first put forward last may for the middle east has finally come to fruition. the cease fire has gone into effect in gaza, and today we're seeing hostages being released. three israeli women held against their will in the dark tunnels for 470 days.

four more women will be released in seven days, three additional hostages every seven days thereafter, including at least two american citizens. in this first phase, we pray for them and their families, for they're going to be a long recovery. >> all right. lots to get into here. >> we've got an expert panel just ready to dive into this historic moment. joining us is nbc international correspondent raf sanchez, who's at the sheba medical center in tel aviv, where the first three hostages are being treated. >> also with us is my friend and the host of ayman, ayman mohyeldin. >> and joining us to round this out is gidi greenstein, who has served as a negotiator for peace between the israelis and the palestinians. >> so, ralph, you have been on the scene all day in tel aviv reporting on this historic hostage release. >> what's the latest that you can share with us? >> so, stephanie, this ceasefire has been in place for exactly 12 hours now, and so far it is holding. the guns are silent in gaza. israel has released 90 palestinian prisoners, women and

children, and hamas has freed those three women hostages from gaza. and over the course of the day, we have watched as they have made this pretty epic journey from captivity to freedom. they were handed by masked hamas fighters to the red cross. they were surrounded by an enormous crowd inside of gaza, the red cross driving them to an israeli military position. they were flown by helicopter here to tel aviv, to the sheba medical hospital, where they are beginning what you rightly described as a long road to recovery. the doctors here gave us their initial assessment that all of them appear to be in good enough health, that they can be reunited with their families, but they have a long way to go in terms of both their physical and their mental care. i will say, stephanie, this ceasefire began three hours late. hamas was supposed to hand over the names of these three hostages

earlier, when they did not do so. by the time the ceasefire was supposed to begin at 8:30 a.m. local time, israel continued its strikes for another several hours, the cease fire finally going into place at 11:15 a.m. and what is truly agonizing, stephanie is in that window between 8:30 a.m. when the ceasefire was supposed to start, 11:15 a.m. when it actually started. local authorities in gaza say 19 people were killed by israeli strikes. so these are people who died, were killed in literally the last minutes before this ceasefire went into place. you rightly pose the question, will it hold? this cease fire is supposed to last six weeks, 33 hostages due to come out. a lot of badly needed humanitarian aid to get into gaza. but prime minister benjamin netanyahu has indicated that he is potentially prepared to go back to fighting on the other side of this cease

fire. stephanie. >> all right. thank you for that update. >> judy. we have seen how fragile this situation has been and how these negotiations have been hard fought. what does it take to get to an agreement like this one? >> first of all, thank you very much for having me. we're looking at a first phase, the three phase ceasefire agreement, 42 days each. so the first phase of 42 days is actually divided into 16 days, which is where we are right now, where we're supposed to have three exchanges, three plus four next week, plus additional three, which is an extremely complicated technical process of withdrawals and exchange of prisoners and israeli hostages coming back to israel. >> as of day 16, we are supposed to begin the negotiations on the second phase of the deal, in which all the remaining hostages are supposed to be coming back, but also israel and the and the hamas are supposed to be discussing a more longer term arrangements in gaza, which

means that the additional four exchanges are going to be taking place in the context of a very complicated political negotiations. the issue is that the israeli government has still not decided. it is still not made clear what is its vision for the exit strategy, for the war, for the day after the war, the political horizon for the war. and that's why we are in this very, very strange situation in which within 16 days we are supposed to begin to negotiate a transition period toward some sort of a permanent status of gaza without a clear vision on behalf of israel. i will say that it seems like the american side, president trump. and by the way, this is a rare case in which president trump and president biden were able to work together, their teams in order to bring this deal. president trump has said and his team have mentioned saudi arabia as a key priority of their administration, meaning getting a defense pact and defense agreement between the united states and saudi, and the

normalization deal between saudi arabia and israel. that means that the regional context may be driving the second phase of the of the ceasefire. and in this context, in order to get the deal with saudi arabia, there could be a lot of pressure on israel and also on hamas to reach the second phase of the deal. and i think that this is actually the only force that could bring together a deal for the second phase. >> okay, ayman, you obviously talked about the broader contextual circumstances that have led to this deal. >> i wanted to talk a little bit about the timing. >> as joe biden said in that clip, he's been working on a cease fire deal since may of last year, and it's only now being realized on the eve of the end of his administration and the beginning of a new administration. which reminds me of 1981, when 53 hostages were released from iran after a lot of negotiation on the part of the carter administration. but just as ronald reagan was literally taking the oath of office on january 20th, 1981. the timing seems very similar

here. what are the political ramifications here in the united states for how this deal shaped up, and why it was ultimately able to come together now? yeah, i mean, it's such an important question. >> i think if you ask different people in this equation, you're probably going to get a few different answers. >> i think for those who have been watching this, there are some things that are pretty obvious. right? and most officials have come out and said this, this was the same deal that was on the table back in may, and some have analyzed it by saying, look, if the prime minister of israel wanted to give joe biden a political victory and then his successor, kamala harris, a cease fire that she could campaign on, he could have done that back in may or june or july. he did not do that. >> some have attributed it to saying he's a very shrewd politician. >> he knows donald trump. he prefers donald trump. >> that is not a secret. and so he wanted to give donald trump this victory of sorts for him coming into office. others have said that donald trump used a lot of leverage on the prime minister. >> he obviously warned all parties that all hell would break loose if the hostages were

not released by the time he is sworn into office, and that's what israeli media was reporting, that there was a lot of pressure put on by the special envoy, steve witkoff, the trump special envoy on the prime minister of israel, to enter into this deal and not to delay any more from the israeli side. the israelis have also said, well, the dynamics have changed since may. they have gone to war with hezbollah, aggressively decimated the leadership of hezbollah, syria has been toppled. the assad regime there, iran has been weakened, and the leadership of hamas has been somewhat destroyed, not completely, but somewhat destroyed, certainly operational on the ground. and that dynamic created an opportunity for them to enter into this hostage agreement now. so it's always going to depend on who you ask. >> but to your point, you cannot remove the theatrics and the optics of this happening. on the eve of donald trump being sworn in as a major motivating factor for the prime minister of israel, and certainly for donald trump, who demonstrated that he has a lot more willingness to use american leverage and american political will than joe biden, who was kind of speaking,

you know, out of two sides of his mouth, on one hand, saying he wanted a cease fire, then changing it, then saying he doesn't early on and, you know, just sending all kinds of mixed messages about it. >> yeah. what do you think the likelihood of this deal holding just briefly. you know, i think it's i'm very pessimistic that it will survive the full duration of it. i think in the short term, you're going to see the hostages released and you're going to see a surge of aid and see palestinian prisoners released. >> but i think in the long run, you are not addressing the fundamental root issues of the problem. >> so you will likely find yourself back here and just really quickly. the prime minister of israel came out and said that, look, he wanted to free all the hostages and destroy hamas. >> and as we're seeing today, the only way he is doing that is by entering into negotiation with hamas. and hamas is still very much on the ground and in control. >> so this is definitely a watch this space situation. >> exactly, absolutely. all right. thank you, ayman mohyeldin and gadi greenstein, thanks so much for joining us. be sure to tune in to ayman, coming up at 7:00 pm tonight where he will talk about this and so much more still to come.

>> vice president elect jd vance is expected to speak any moment now at the capital one arena in washington, d.c. we will bring you there for the latest. plus the last guardrails at the department of justice. how career prosecutors can still keep donald trump from illegally weaponizing the doj to politically prosecute his politically prosecute his perceived (♪♪) years of hard work. decades of dedication. committed to giving back. you've been there, done that. and you're still here for more. so now that you're 50 or older, and at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia and ipd be proactive with capvaxive- a vaccine specifically designed for adults to help protect against pneumonia and invasive disease caused by certain types of pneumococcal bacteria. capvaxive is the only vaccine that helps protect against the strains that cause 84% of ipd in adults 50 or older compared with up to 52% by other pneumococcal conjugate vaccines. don't get capvaxive if you're allergic to the vaccine or its ingredients.

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>> welcome back. >> you're looking at live footage from the capital one arena in washington, dc, where vice president elect jd vance will speak shortly at a maga rally. president elect trump will also be speaking to his supporters, as well as to what will be his last scheduled appearance before the inauguration tomorrow. we'll keep an eye on that rally and we will bring you any updates. but once he returns to the oval office, donald trump has promised retribution against his opponents, be they political or otherwise. a new york times opinion piece suggests that

revenge is a dish best served from the white house, according to the author thomas edsall. trump's second term is apt to become known as a kind of revenge presidency. the return of the king. now, this is not just a personal opinion. it is a message that donald trump and his most loyal supporters have echoed ad nauseam in the run up to the 2024 election. >> i am your warrior. >> i am your justice. and for those who have been wronged and betrayed, i am your retribution. >> we will go out and find the conspirators, not just in government, but in the media. yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about american citizens who helped joe biden rig presidential elections. we're going to come after you, whether it's criminal or civil. we'll figure that out. >> we have a lot of bad people. >> but when you look at shifty schiff and some of the others, yeah, they are to me, the enemy from within. i think nancy pelosi is an enemy from within the deep state, the administrative state, the fourth branch of government never

mentioned in the constitution, is going to be taken apart brick by brick. >> and the people that did these evil deeds will be held accountable and prosecuted. >> that's the trump administration 2.0, making clear that all points of the political spectrum are fair game for donald trump's ire and that of his maga base. the edsel times op ed also adds, quote, donald trump has effectively conducted a purge in his own party, pushing out of office eight of the ten republican members of the house who voted for his 2021 impeachment, in addition to pushing into retirement many of his senate critics. and let's not forget donald trump's desire to launch an fbi investigation to prosecute former gop congresswoman liz cheney for her role in probing the january 6th, 2021, attack on the u.s. capitol. >> she's a radical war hawk. let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrel shooting at her. >> okay, let's see how she feels

about it. >> you know, when the guns are trained on her face. >> joining us now to break all of this down is anthony coley, a former senior adviser to attorney general merrick garland. he is also an msnbc justice and legal affairs and analyst. also with us is mark elias, the founder of democracy docket. anthony, let's talk about what's going to happen at the doj. first and foremost, so doj prosecutors, many of them are not political appointees. they're just career prosecutors who work in main justice. how are they likely to respond when they get the order that a prosecution, a political prosecution, is underway? >> so right now, prosecutors, fbi agents, they follow the facts, right? the facts tell these folks where to go next. and a trump administration, if they get that type of order, i think there's going to be stiff resistance from the majority of those folks who work at the doj. the people that you just mentioned, understanding that law enforcement, and certainly

the fbi has a conservative tilt to it. so while most of the folks i think will shudder and not go through with what they think is an unlawful order, i think there are some folks there who are inclined, particularly at the fbi. the good thing, and you know better than me as the lawyer, supreme court expert, lawyer, professor that you are, is that there are guardrails in place, right? >> and attorney general just cannot authorize the fbi to execute a search warrant. >> a judge has to do that. and attorney general just cannot indict an individual. a grand jury under a finding of probable cause. right. that does not mean that in in order to investigate a political enemy will not result in expensive headaches for those people under investigation. but there are some guardrails, right? >> so mark anthony has suggested that there are guardrails here that may hem in the trump doj. but i want to talk a little bit

about these preemptive pardons that president biden is said to be considering, like these would be a legal means of insulating those who are likely trump targets from his ire. what are you hearing about these blanket pardons and who's most likely to receive them? >> so i don't know. >> i'm not hearing much one way or the other. and i think you need to distinguish between two things. one is individualized pardons and blanket pardons. right. blanket pardons would be for like a category of people. think about, you know, what president carter did with the people who had evaded the draft in vietnam. he did a pardon of all of those people without naming them. individual pardons is what we're more used to, where they name individuals. i don't know what the white house is going to do. i do know this. whatever the white whatever this white house does, donald trump is did not make kash patel his nominee for the fbi because he wants a fair minded fbi. he did not choose an election denier in pam bondi to be the attorney general, because he wants a fair minded department of justice.

donald trump expects that there will be political prosecutions. >> he expects that not just aspirationally, but that's what he expects from loyalty and to his to him and his his cause. >> and i while there are guardrails and i think anthony is right, the courts being first and foremost above those, those guardrails only matter if the courts are willing to be the guardrail. and that's one of the things that i think we all need to focus on. >> well, with that in mind, mark, are there other things that might be done outside of the courts, outside of these preemptive pardons that could insulate and protect those who are likely to be targeted by trump and his loyalists in this upcoming administration? >> yeah, we talk a lot about norms. and so i'm going to propose a norm for the mainstream media and for people of good faith, which is when you hear of an investigation right now, people immediately think, yeah, there's a presumption of innocence, but there's probably something to it. and i think we need to reverse this. i think we now need to assume that if that

if donald trump's department of justice is investigating a prominent democrat or a never trump republican or just someone who's a political opponent, rather than starting with the assumption that there must be some smoke there and there must be some fire, i think we need to start with the presumption that there's not. and that is an important thing. it's a hard thing, i think, for the media to do because the media like, you know, is naturally inclined to say, well, there's an investigation and start with that. i think we now need to start with the asking the hard question rather than starting with the, the, the what, what the investigation might be about. and that's also going to extend not just to the media but to other institutions, like, for example, the courts right now, most federal judges, as you know and as anthony, know, you know, if a defendant raises a question of selective prosecution or political prosecution, you know, the judge is likely to look at that askance and say, in the first instance, i believe the prosecutors are acting in good faith and the grand jury system is working and all of that. and i think judges need to take that presumption away. i think we need to be very skeptical in how we treat and how we report on, and how we as lawyers and the

judicial system handle investigations and indictments and leaks from this department of justice and this fbi. >> all right. anthony, mark mentioned attorney general designee pam bondi, who was on the hill last week for her confirmation hearings, where she was asked directly about the prospect of a potential enemies list. here's what she had to say. >> and i'm questioning you right now about whether you will enforce an enemies list that he announced publicly on television. >> oh, senator. i'm sorry. there will never be an enemies list within the department of justice. >> anthony, do you believe her? >> you know no. who knows what to believe with any of these people? >> what? what we what we all have to keep in mind right now is that donald trump often says one thing and he does other things right. let's be clear. you open the show talking about this tiktok ban. donald trump was pro tiktok ban before he was against it. >> thank you for saying that because people have forgotten that part. >> yeah, right. and so he said he was going to lock up hillary

clinton. she's out here enjoying her best life right now. >> right. and so i just i want us to be clear eyed about what could happen, but mindful that this guy speaks out of both sides of his mouth. >> there was a fascinating article in today's new york times, getting to your question about political prosecutions and the enemies list. it found 78% of all americans, but believe that his policies or support his policies more than they support him as a person, and they do not want him to use the government as a way to investigate or prosecute his political enemies, including 58% of republicans. so if he is smart, he will focus on the policy that impacts people's lives. >> all right, so the guardrail might actually be the people here. and the prospect of future prospects for the republican party. >> mark elias and anthony cole, thanks so much for joining us for that update on d.o.j. when we return. president elect trump is expected to take the stage at

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will be speaking to the crowd soon after, but right now we're going to head back to our political panel. >> peter baker and charlie sykes are back with us. peter, charlie, i want to get a sense of what we might expect from tomorrow when donald trump gives his second inaugural speech. and to do that, maybe we should go back to the future and hear what he had to say in 2017. >> the forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer. and the crime and the gangs and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. this american carnage stops right here and stops right now. >> peter, i will start with you. >> peter. >> do you think it will be nearly as dark and dystopian as it was in 2017?

>> well, i wouldn't be surprised if it was. he obviously maintains that same view of america today. >> if you listen to him on the campaign trail, you heard him describe a pretty grim view of america today, even one that's not, you know, borne out by statistics. >> and, you know, independent facts. >> but at the same time, his people in recent days have been trying to send a signal that he wants to go in a somewhat more optimistic direction. >> they are using the phrase the beginning of a new golden age, and we'll see if that's in fact where he tries to take this. >> it's not in his nature to be talking unity. that's just not how he has rolled over these last 8 or 9 years in the national stage. >> but we'll see how he chooses to use this last opportunity to take an inaugural address with the largest audience he's going to have this year. >> and charlie, what are you expecting as trump 2.0 takes on day one? >> well, first of all, let's not be distracted by what donald

trump says. >> what's important is what he does. and i think we're going to see a blizzard of executive orders. they have promised shock and awe, and i think that we've got to expect that they're going to follow through. we don't know all the things that he's going to do. will he be pardoning the january 6th rioters? will he be imposing vast new tariffs? will he, you know, declare? will he issue decrees that will set off the mass deportation of migrants? we don't know, but in many ways, i think that the words that donald trump says will be almost immediately over overshadowed by the actions that he's going to take. >> and i expect that it's going to be an absolute blizzard. >> i've described it as the mother of all news dumps, and i think that we need to brace ourselves for that. >> well, we will certainly be bracing ourselves, and we will be coming back to you for more insights. peter baker and charlie sykes, thank you so much. >> that's all for me right now.

>> but before we go, don't forget to tune in tonight at 9 p.m. eastern for a special evening edition of the weekend featuring alicia menendez, symone sanders townsend and michael steele. and tomorrow, watch msnbc beginning at 6 a.m. eastern time, when morning joe kicks off our coverage of donald trump's second inauguration. and then, at 10 a.m, rachel maddow will bring you key moments of the day, followed by analysis from our primetime anchors throughout the evening. that's all we have time for. i'm melissa murray. thank you for joining me. politics nation with joining me. politics nation with reverend al sharpton is up [monologue] i got somebody for that! ♪♪ i got somebody for that. ♪♪ i got somebody for that! you guys got somebody for peyronie's disease? ♪♪ there's hope for the estimated 1 in 10 men who may have peyronie's disease, or pd. a urology specialist who treats pd can help you create a plan— including nonsurgical options. find somebody today at gogetsomebody.com

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tonight's lead. inauguration eve. this evening, the sun is setting on the biden presidency. and tomorrow,he