they believe are more favorable to republicans and to conservative ideas. and so i think that they're going to go about, you know, trying to fundamentally change the government through executive order until congress can get on board with some of these initiatives and come what may, with the legal challenges, because, first of all, they've achieved their message with their voters saying that, hey, we did do this. it's the court stopping us, or it's more liberal think tanks and lawyers stopping us, and then potentially they can get the outcome that they want in the courts because of the way that the courts are being are kind of shopped around by conservative outlets. >> yeah. i do think that there is a confidence that this administration has in elevating these issues through the courts. i think you're completely right about that, jasmine. right. thank you for joining us. that was way too early for this wednesday morning. morning joe starts right now. >> so i want to ask. >> you about the vice president.

jd vance. he said. >> if this is a week ago, he said if you committed violence on january 6th, obviously you should. not be pardoned. >> why is your vice president wrong? >> well. >> only for one reason. they they've. >> served years. >> in jail. they they should not have served. >> she has many years. they've served. >> years in jail. and murderers don't even go to jail in. >> this country. >> and we had 1500. >> we have. 16 under review. as you know, we. commuted about 16 of them because. >> it looks like they could have done things. >> that were. >> not acceptable. >> for a full pardon. >> but these people have served years of jail. >> and their lives. >> have been ruined. >> that was president trump yesterday. >> defending his. >> pardons for around. >> 1500 people charged with. crimes connected with. >> the january. >> 6th attack on the capitol. >> we'll have more on his comments from the white. >> house, as well as reaction. from republican senators. >> on capitol hill. we'll also hear from a. >> former metropolitan. police officer who.

>> was. >> beaten by. >> rioters while defending. >> the capitol. >> michael fanone. >> will join us in just a moment. plus, we'll go. >> through the new. >> allegations against pete hegseth days before the senate is expected to vote. >> on his nomination. >> for secretary of defense. >> also ahead. >> the president. >> has terminated. >> secret service protection. >> for an adviser. >> from his first term. >> we'll explain that. situation and we'll have. >> the latest. >> on the. >> extreme weather. >> sweeping across the south. >> incredible. >> good morning, and welcome. >> to morning joe. it is. >> wednesday. >> january 22nd, along with willie and me. >> we have. >> the co-host. >> of. our fourth. >> hour. >> jonathan lemire. >> he's a contributing. >> writer at the atlantic. >> covering the white. >> house and national politics. >> u.s. special. correspondent for. bbc news, katty. >> kay joins. us and. >> the host. >> of way too. >> early. >> ali vitali. joe is off this morning. >> let's dive right in. >> president trump. yesterday defended. >> the.

>> pardons he. >> issued to roughly 1500 january 6th rioters. >> more than. >> 400 of. >> the pardons. >> were. >> for people who. were convicted of assaulting police officers. >> nbc's peter alexander. >> repeatedly pressed. >> the. >> president. >> on the issue. >> you would agree that it's never. >> acceptable to assault a police officer? >> sure. >> so then, if i. >> can among those you pardoned. >> jay rodriguez. he drove. >> a. >> stun gun into the neck of a d.c. police. >> officer who was. >> abducted by the mob that day. he later. confessed on video. >> to the fbi. >> and pleaded guilty for. >> his crimes. >> why does. >> he deserve. >> a pardon? >> well, i don't know. is it a pardon? because we're looking at commutes and we're looking. >> at pardons. okay, well. >> we'll take a look at everything, but. >> i can say this. >> murderers today are not even charged. you have murderers that aren't charged. >> all over. >> you take a look at what's going on in philadelphia. >> take a look at what's going on. >> in la, where. people murder people and they don't get charged. these people have.

>> already served years in. >> prison. and they've served them viciously. it's a disgusting prison. it's been horrible. it's inhumane. it's been. >> a terrible. >> terrible thing. >> mr. president. mr. president, you're a president who has long said that you back the blue. >> but aren't you. >> sending the. message that assaulting. >> officers is okay with. >> these parties? >> no, the opposite. in fact. >> i'm going. >> to be letting two. >> officers from washington police, d.c. i believe that from d.c, but. >> i just. >> approved it. they were. >> arrested, put in jail for. >> five years. because they went after an illegal. and i guess something happened where something went. wrong. and they arrested the two officers and. put them in jail for going after a criminal. >> a rough. >> criminal, by the way. and i'm actually releasing. no, i'm the friend of i am the friend of police more. than any president.

>> that's ever. >> been in this office. >> so a. >> fact check. >> on the. president's statement about the d.c. >> officers he said. >> he intends to pardon. >> they were not chasing an. >> immigrant who was in the u.s. >> illegally. >> back in october. >> of 2020. >> the officers were. >> in an unmarked car when. >> they chased a man named caron hilton. >> brown. >> who. was on a moped. >> hilton brown. >> crashed the moped and died. >> during the. >> pursuit that authorities. >> said violated police policy. >> and was illegally reckless. authorities also said both officers later. lied about the incident. >> to. >> forestall a. potential federal civil rights investigation. despite their convictions, both. >> officers were allowed to. >> go free pending. >> the outcome. >> of their appeals. >> which are still ongoing. so there's that. and willie, we're learning more also about. who else who. >> were released. >> yeah.

>> a thin defense. >> it should be pointed out by. >> president trump. >> of what. >> he. >> did under. >> questioning from peter alexander and didn't know if he'd. >> commuted or. >> pardoned. and then, as you said, had some. >> bad information in his defense there, 211. inmates in federal custody for their january 6th. convictions were freed. >> yesterday morning. video taken by. >> nbc news. shows some of the rioters. >> leaving a. >> prison in orlando. they signed. >> a flag. >> they say they want to send to president trump. >> many of those. >> who were. >> pardoned had. >> committed violent acts. >> on january 6th. >> that includes. >> tyler bradley dikes. >> of south carolina. >> he was. sentenced to 57. >> months after. >> he stole a police riot. shield and used. >> it against officers. andrew tockey had a. >> six year sentence. >> for assaulting officers. >> with. >> bear spray and. >> a metal whip. prosecutors say david dempsey was one of the most. >> violent rioters and received one of the longest sentences 20 years in prison. >> prosecutors say. dempsey viciously. >> assaulted officers. >> who were defending the

tunnel. >> outside of the capitol. >> he attacked them with pepper. >> spray. >> broken pieces of furniture and anything else he could get his hands on to use. as a weapon. and he is. >> free this morning. and then there are the. >> two people who played. >> central roles. >> in planning the capitol attack of january 6th. proud boys. leader enrique tarrio and the founder of the oath keepers. >> militia, stewart rhodes. >> both convicted. >> of. >> seditious conspiracy. tarrio was serving a 22 year sentence. rhodes was supposed to be. >> in prison for 18 years. >> rhodes had this to say when he was released yesterday. >> i think trump did the right thing. president trump did the right thing by letting these guys out and partying them, because they did not get a fair trial. that's not on him. that's on the doj. you want a fair system and run fair trials. that's what's one thing. if you don't do that, don't be surprised if you don't enforce the presumption of innocence. >> so then. >> there's the reaction from lawmakers. >> on capitol. >> hill to the blanket.

>> pardons of january 6th defendants. the somewhat mixed some. >> gop members of the house freedom caucus, including andy. >> biggs. >> chip roy. >> and lauren. >> boebert. visited the dc jail yesterday in a sign of support. >> boebert said. >> those who were pardoned. >> were not being. >> released fast enough. >> she also invited. >> all of the january 6th rioters. >> in custody. >> at the dc. >> jail on a guided. tour of. >> the capitol after. >> their release. >> meanwhile. >> some republican senators defended. >> the pardon. >> while others. >> tried to. explain away trump's decision. >> are you feeling about some. >> of the trump's. >> executive actions. >> particularly specifically on pardoning? >> love them. >> what about. >> the pardon? >> yeah, i think they were absolutely justified. >> again, i don't know all the cases. >> i certainly don't. >> want to pardon. >> any violent. >> actors. but there was a real miscarriage. >> of justice here. >> so i totally support. >> for violent offenders. >> are you comfortable. >> with that? >> i haven't seen the details. >> but i think. >> a lot of those.

>> parts. >> are definitely. >> well deserved. >> listen. >> this is him. he said he was going to do this during the campaign and he did. >> exactly. >> what are you comfortable with it? >> well, if. >> you're asking me. >> if it's what. >> i would have done. >> what i have said is, is that folks. >> who committed. >> violence. >> what. >> signal do you think. >> that is. >> that. >> it. >> keeps skipping. >> on the system? >> are you comfortable with these pardons. >> for january 6th? >> well, as i said, sorry, sorry. >> as i've said before. >> we're looking forward to the next four. >> years. >> not the last four. >> what message. >> does this send to police officers who were there that day? if you're. >> the party. >> of law and order, what about the office? what about the people that were. >> attacked, the. >> officers that were attacked. >> that day? you got to move the mic. biden. >> just to. >> recap, that was. >> senator ron johnson. >> mostly supportive. >> of pardons, senator josh hawley saying he wouldn't have pardoned rioters. >> who committed. >> violent acts. >> and senate. >> majority leader john. >> thune deflecting. questions from reporters. >> compare that. >> to other.

>> gop senators yesterday who. >> spoke out. >> against the pardons. >> people who. >> committed violent crimes on. >> january 6th of. >> 2021 should not. >> be pardoned. >> and i think this is. >> a terrible day. >> for our justice department. >> it's wrong to assault anybody, but certainly to assault an officer. and i'm a big fan of the little guy. >> i'm disappointed. >> to see that. >> and i. do agree. >> with the message that said. >> to these. >> great men and women. >> that stood by us, am i concerned about it? i mean, it's again, it's not ideal, but i'm not overly concerned about it either. i think that the gift is that it's all behind us now and we can stop talking about it. >> that's what. >> i'm trying to do. >> is figure out there are some commutations to me. >> i just can't agree. i'm about to file. >> two bills that. >> will increase. >> the penalties. >> up to. >> and including the death penalty for the murder of a.

>> police officer and. >> increasing the penalties and creating federal. >> crimes for assaulting a police officer. that should give you everything you need to know about my position. look, at it. is it's it was. surprising to me that it was a blanket. pardon? now i'm going through the details. >> and former. >> senate majority leader mitch mcconnell told semafor yesterday, quote, no one. >> should excuse. violence and. >> particularly violence. >> against police officers. >> so jonathan. >> lemire, i mean, obviously in. >> your book, you. >> covered the big lie. and all that transpired. >> these pardons. >> seem to be in. >> some ways, you could. >> argue. >> the will. >> of the people. >> 2025 trump campaigned. >> on this. this is. >> no surprise. nobody should. >> be shocked. >> if anyone is shocked. they were not listening. >> having said that, there's some. >> differences here. >> you heard, i. think it was senator john thune saying, look at. biden's pardons or something. so biden did. >> pardon his family, and that is a legitimate conversation to

have. i think that's the gray area. some would argue that sets. >> up a. >> really bad precedent. >> they can. >> you can. >> definitely argue there is a lot of criticism you could put. >> on. >> those actions, or you. >> could also see. >> the world, perhaps how they were looking at what was coming at them. that's one conversation. but the other one. >> is about. >> assaulting police officers. the other one is about committing acts of violence against our capitol. >> the people who work. >> there. >> our vice. >> president, our speaker of the house. >> assaulting cops. >> video of it. >> and there. >> there's a clear difference. joe biden. to respond to senator thune. he pardoned. >> the people who defended. >> the capitol, and donald trump pardoned. >> the. >> people who assaulted the capitol and the people in it. and there's a big difference there. and i don't know if this is what people wanted, but this is the will. of the people. >> yeah, that couldn't.

>> be. >> a more the outcome. >> that couldn't. >> be a starker. >> contrast there. >> between who president biden pardoned, those who defended the capitol and those. >> who. >> investigated the attacks, versus president trump, who is now pardoned, those who committed. >> these attacks. >> you know, january 6th was, of course, the culmination. >> of the big lie. >> the big. >> lie fueled this violence. and what. >> we. >> got. >> from president trump this week with these blanket pardons. >> sort of. closes the book, if you. >> will, on a republican effort for. >> four years. >> to completely whitewash. >> and downplay what. >> happened that day. we're going. >> to. keep showing. >> the video. >> but republicans have. >> been trying to turn the page. >> as quickly. >> as possible. >> since then, with very. >> few exceptions. >> we did see, you know, some. >> muted criticism from. >> republicans. >> some sharper language from others. >> susan collins. >> lisa murkowski, senator. >> cassidy. >> we just saw heard from senator tillis. there were some. >> republicans who made clear. >> this isn't what they. >> would have done. at the very least, they wouldn't have agreed to pardons for those who committed violent. >> offenses. >> offenses against police

officers and others, as we heard from the new majority leader, tried to sort of play. what aboutism with the pardons from president biden and as mika said, those for his family that's that's deserving of a separate conversation, those for the january 6th select committee and the police officers involved. that's very different. and what we don't know now. is whether this will fuel any further resistance from republicans. >> and, willie, i mean. >> i think the safe bet is no. yes. this is how. >> it always goes. >> you'll have. certain senators, you. >> know, who because. of often electoral. >> concerns and yes. >> sometimes out of principle. >> will criticize donald trump, but the vast majority will either simply full throated, endorse it or turn a blind eye to it. >> yeah. and we. >> heard. >> them, many. >> of them, including the majority leader later yesterday talking about we're going to get. >> through all of donald trump's nominees. >> they will all be confirmed. we'll stay here all night. we'll stay here all weekend. signaling again that we are with donald trump on whatever he asks us to do. and ali vitali, you cover. >> these men. >> and women every day. in

congress. majority leader john thune, i thought, was very revealing. >> a guy. >> who's very well respected, well liked, a decent. >> man who. >> just answered the very easy question should people who beat. >> up. >> cops be released from prison? he said, would you ask biden the same question about pardons? it feels like donald trump gave these republicans a pretty easy test right out of the gate. are you able to say. >> by the way. >> you were. >> the victims of this attack on january 6th? in many ways, you were inside the capitol. are you able to say that people who beat up cops viciously in. front of cameras, the whole world watched it happen? should they be released from prison? and by and large, with the exceptions we saw there, most of them kind of are looking the other way because they don't want to cross trump in these early days. >> i think that's exactly right. i mean, the way that senator thune answered that question, i think tells us a lot about where the house, the senate republican conference is writ large, and they are just trying to put january 6th in the rearview, let

trump basically tie up the loose ends by commuting and pardoning all of these rioters. and they're just trying to move on to the agenda of taxes and immigration, i hope i don't think it will be that easy, because you still have 5 to 7 if we're being generous. counting republican senators that rebuked this move, you've still got a handful of them who are willing to say that this flies in the face of being the party of law and order and backing the blue. but again, there are so many litmus tests that are being put out in the early days of this administration. january 6th is one of them. the confirmation battles for controversial nominees are another. we saw the way that pete hegseth was able to be pushed out of committee in favorable fashion, because all republicans there voted him out. of course, we'll see whether his confirmation hearing on the full floor changes anything. if there are republicans that are still reluctant or reticent about the job that he could do leading the pentagon, that's certainly

something that i'm looking for. but i think it really tells us something about the ways that trump was able to remake congress in his image. and now he's he's bearing the fruits of that. >> katty kay, the wall street journal editorial board has a piece this morning titled. trump pardons the january 6th cop beaters. this is the wall street journal editorial board, writing. >> quote. >> republicans are busy denouncing president biden's preemptive pardons for his family and political allies, and deservedly so. but then it's a shame you don't hear many, if any. ruing president trump's proclamation to pardon unconditionally nearly all of the people who rioted at the u.s. capitol on january 6th, 2021. this includes those convicted of bludgeoning, chemical spraying and electroshocking police to try to keep mr. trump in power. now he's springing them from prison. this is a rotten message from a president about political violence done on his behalf, and it's a bait and switch. out of roughly 1600 cases filed by the feds, more than a third included

accusations of assaulting, resisting, or impeding law enforcement. of the 1100 sentences handed down this year, more than a third did not involve prison time. the riders who did get jail often were charged with brutal violence. what happened that day is a stain on mr. trump's legacy. by setting free the cop beaters, the president adds another. so you have this morning, what, two days into his administration caddy, the wall street journal, calling this a stain on president trump's legacy and so fascinating, as ali said, to watch these republicans, many of them on capitol hill, twist themselves in knots to look the other way. >> yeah. >> the wall street journal has been very. >> interesting over the. >> last few days, because. >> it's been a real reminder that. president trump campaigned. to run the country, and. >> now he is running the. >> country. and the problems are his problems. and i've been struck by how many editorials there. have been. >> there's another. >> one in there today. trump gives. tiktok and illegal amnesty. >> the journal's really pushing. >> back, and they've pushed back against several of the things.

that president trump. >> has done. >> they've called. >> out the nominee for secretary of defense, pete hegseth, saying, we didn't learn anything in the nomination hearings. we just have to hope that he's the right guy for the job, but not sounding at all convinced that he was. and so you've got that kind of i guess you could put the journal is the kind of voice of the sort of mitt romney wing of the republican. >> party. >> to some extent, still out there saying, okay, you won this. now all of these problems are yours. you have to deal with all of these things on the on. i think one of the most interesting things that was said by those republican senators actually, was senator cramer, who said, look, it was done on day one, and it's behind us now. and you wonder to some extent whether president trump, knowing that this would be kind of controversial with members of the senate, but it was something that the base wanted. you get it done early and then you can move on from it. and i think that's the hope for the white house is that this can now there'll be a lot of outcry about this in these first 48 hours or so, and then they can get on to other things that, that the republicans actually want to talk about.

>> so let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. ken, nbc news spoke to a line prosecutor who worked on the january 6th cases. >> what was. >> his reaction to these pardons? >> he was appalled. >> mika. good morning. his name is jason manning, and he's one of many career prosecutors who devoted years to prosecuting, investigating, finding, investigating, prosecuting these. >> january 6th attackers. this was the. >> biggest criminal. investigation in the history of the justice department. nearly every fbi field office and every u.s. attorney's office was involved, even though it took place mostly in the dc, u.s. attorney's office in washington, dc. and this prosecutor really reflected on what this pardon set of pardons meant to the victims that he knows very well. in many cases, the police officers who were assaulted. take a listen. >> everyone is trying to judge these pardons. think how they think about them. needs to put themselves in the shoes of the

capitol police officers, the metropolitan police officers who are victims that day. think about what it was like for those people. officers like officer. >> michael fanone, who was dragged into a mob and. >> tased in the neck, or officer like officer dan hodges, who was squeezed between a. >> door and had to scream. >> for his life. officer brian sicknick, who. was assaulted with pepper spray, lost his life with a heart attack. i have to think about what it means for those officers and. >> their loved ones. >> to receive this message. >> that those. >> assaults don't matter, that attacking police officers like that is okay. so for me, that's what i'm thinking about. when those pardons are issued, i don't think that's okay. and so i find the pardons appalling. >> that was a fantastic interview by our colleague ryan riley, who, as you know, wrote a book about january 6th. i spent the day yesterday talking to everyone from ivy league legal. scholars to people inside the justice department, even to lawyers who defended january 6th defendants. i couldn't find anyone, anyone who would defend the pardoning of violent

offenders who attacked police except for mike davis, a conservative lawyer who advises donald trump, who said basically they suffered enough. but it's hard to convey guys, what a body blow these pardons are not only to the justice department, but to the american system of justice, because it sort of made a mockery of the work of fbi agents, prosecutors, but also federal judges. there's a judge from a texan, royce lamberth, a ronald reagan appointee, who in an opinion a year ago just remarked about the misinformation and lies that were surrounding the whole idea of january 6th and the notion that these people didn't do what the video shows them doing. he said he'd never seen anything like it in his 37 years on the bench. and that's what we're facing now, is that donald trump, by issuing these pardons, has essentially turned to dust. years of work by the justice system, guys. >> so, ken, you know, you just spoke very well about how this this decision invalidates the

work of so much of some of these prosecutors. so my two. part question for you. >> would be. >> one is do you think we'll see some perhaps resignations in response to this? and secondly, as we. >> pivot, looking. >> forward with these violent offenders back on the streets, is there concern among law enforcement? i know you speak to law. >> enforcement all the time. >> that they are back out again. and if perhaps summoned by the president of united states would. >> commit violent acts again. >> yeah, there's absolutely concern, jonathan, in part because when you have a felony conviction erased from your record, you get your gun rights back. so a lot of these people are able now to buy and carry concealed weapons. so i've definitely. heard some concern about that from law enforcement and from victims of their crimes. yeah. so absolutely that's an issue. >> all right. >> nbc's ken dilanian, thank you very much. and we have one more note on this. new polling shows donald trump is starting off his presidency more popular than he was throughout much of his first

term in office. a new reuters ipsos poll, taken monday and tuesday after trump's inauguration, shows the president with a 47% approval rating. >> but his. >> decision to issue a blanket pardon for virtually all the rioters who. participated in the january 6th capitol attack doesn't appear to be as popular, 58% said trump should not pardon all people convicted of crimes. on january 6th. we'll be following that and still ahead on morning joe, former dc metropolitan police officer michael fanone, who defended the capitol on january 6th and was attacked with a stun gun. that day, joins us next to react to president trump's blanket pardon for rioters. plus, president trump's pick for defense secretary pete hegseth is facing new allegations that could potentially complicate his confirmation. we'll have the latest from capitol hill. we're latest from capitol hill. we're back some people just know they could save hundreds

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went through. >> hell, and i'm going. >> to tell you it. >> was worth it. because we stood. >> for. >> what we've been fighting for. we saw yesterday. on the inauguration stage. >> we need people like. >> pam bondi. >> the. >> attorney general nominee. >> and fbi director. >> kash patel. >> and the rest of trump's cabinet to right. all these wrongs. the people who did this, they need to feel. >> the heat. >> they need to. >> be. >> put behind bars. so, willie, here we are seeing the leader of this hate group. >> the leader. >> of the proud boys, come out not. >> only. >> thanking president trump for freeing. >> him. >> but suggesting that trump's cabinet does need to carry out this agenda of retribution for those who were part of the january 6th riots, with investigations and prosecutions. >> setting an. >> ominous tone here as this new administration comes back to power. >> and as he talks of the, quote, the people who did this, presumably talking about prosecutors, judges and a jury that listened to evidence and convicted all of these people. meanwhile, axios is reporting an adviser who was familiar with

the discussions in the room about these january 6th pardons, quoting donald trump. this is a white house adviser quoting donald trump, the final decision, saying, quote, f it released them all, citing donald trump directly and saying that open the jails, let everybody out. retired d.c. metropolitan police officer michael fanone, who, you'll remember, was brutally attacked at the capitol on january 6th, now has had to file protective orders against the people who assaulted him. this comes after president trump pardoned his attackers. it also comes after fanone was told by doj officials there would be no protection for him or his family. they've been targets since he testified before the january 6th committee. an officer fanone joins us now. we should note former president biden provided fanone and the other officers who testified a preemptive pardon in anticipation of retaliation from the trump administration. fanone is the author of the recent book on the insurrection titled hold the line. officer fanone, it's great to have you back on the show. just your first reaction

to these blanket pardons of many of the people who attacked you that day. >> i mean, it's outrageous, but, you know, like mika said earlier in the program, it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. donald trump has been promising these pardons ever since he announced his candidacy from waco, texas. you know, for those of you who don't know or remember, that was the scene of a violent confrontation between members of american extremist groups and law enforcement in which law enforcement officers were killed. and donald trump saw that as a fitting place to announce his candidacy. so i fully expected this to happen. and the american people voted for it. >> so you've got these protective orders yesterday, understand? why did you feel compelled to do that? can you talk about some of the threats you felt for you and your

family? >> well, first, i, i haven't obtained them yet. i'm going through the process. unfortunately, it doesn't look like it's going to be as easy as i had initially anticipated. that being said, listen, once these guys were pardoned and let's talk about the individuals that that were pardoned. daniel rodriguez, sentenced to more than 12 years in prison after he pled guilty and admitted to using a taser device, applying it to the base of my skull numerous times while i was being restrained in a crowd and assaulted albuquerque, cosper head from tennessee placed me in a headlock, pled guilty. this is the rider that if you watch my body worn camera footage yelled out, i've got one! as he dragged me out into the crowd, thomas sibick, who while i was restrained and being assaulted,

ripped my badge and my radio from my police vest. kyle young, who again while i was being restrained and assaulted, tried to remove my firearm from its holster as he violently assaulted me. these individuals pled guilty. they admitted that they assaulted a uniformed law enforcement officer who was simply doing his job, and donald trump chose to pardon these violent criminals. they are all out on the street today because of donald trump's actions. my family is less safe. we have suffered threats and acts of violence almost immediately after my congressional testimony in the select committee hearing. in fact, i didn't even make it through my testimony before i received the first threatening phone call. my mother has been the victim of swatting

incidents. she has had bricks thrown at her home in the middle of the night. and recently, while she was raking the leaves in her front yard, she had an individual pull up in a truck and throw a bag of on her. this is the type of conduct and behavior that we've experienced for four years, and quite frankly, law enforcement has been feckless in its attempts to protect us and prevent these types of crimes from occurring. >> all of what you just laid out is disgusting. and of course, the crime for which you're receiving all of this is for defending the united states capitol during an assault, during a riot, for doing your job as a police officer. many of these people who love to talk about and have bumper stickers on their cars about backing the blue attacked you. and i don't want to walk you through the

worst day of your life. i assume it was, but you went into cardiac arrest. you've talked openly about thinking about your kids, assuming that it was over, that this was the end. how close did you think that day you were to dying, michael? >> i mean, i certainly thought that was the inevitable outcome, but i'll be honest with you, january 6th, 2021 was not the worst day of my life. that, you know, maybe on january 6th, 2021, i thought it was. but, you know, these past four years, the threshold for the worst day of my life has changed dramatically. you know, having your mother call you and tell you that someone pulled up in a pickup truck and threw on her, and knowing that it was because of the things that i've said and my conduct on january 6th and

simply doing my job was probably one of the most painful calls that i've ever received in my life. again. because of these pardons, my family is threatened and my family is less safe. >> so going forward now, as you said, the people who attacked you that day are out there free. many of them. everybody is out. at this point. what do you anticipate the next days, weeks, months to look like for you and your family? >> well, i fully expect to experience a violence at the hands of some of these individuals, whether it's the ones that directly assaulted me or others who see me as a spokesperson for accountability. for january 6th, i certainly feel as though i have a target on my back and i have a target.

there's a target on the back of my family members, and not just from these violent criminals, but from the government itself, from donald trump's. government. >> well, in this perverse logic that we're seeing now, you've been made a villain by this group of people, and we just want to say publicly what we've said all along that you and the other officers who defended the capitol that day perhaps saved the country. you are the heroes, and we are so grateful for your service. we hope to talk to you again. often. retired dc metropolitan police officer michael fanone. keep us posted on everything. great to see you, sir. >> thank you. >> so, mika, these pardons that donald trump, according to axios, said f it released them all not happening in the abstract. these are things that are very real to people like officer michael fanone, to harry dunn, to aquilino gonell. all

these officers that we've come to know and bravely defended the capitol that day, they're going to have to relive it now. again, these people who attacked them and beat them to within inches of their lives are out and free. >> and it's true. we shouldn't be shocked. trump said that he would do this. he said it repeatedly. it was a key part of his campaign. at the same time, it is very hard not to be incredibly. sad right now about. this and what it means. so the full senate could vote on pete hegseth to head the department of defense as early as tomorrow. but a new affidavit received by senators yesterday could pose an 11th hour challenge to his nomination. nbc news has learned exclusively that more than a dozen senators have received a sworn statement from former

sister in law danielle, in which she says his behavior caused his second wife to fear for her safety. nbc news has received a redacted copy of the document. the affidavit was submitted in response to a letter sent last week from senator jack reed of rhode island, the ranking member of the senate armed. services committee. nbc news reports reed asked danielle hegseth to detail what she knew of, quote, instances of abuse or. threats of abuse perpetrated against any other person. end quote, mistreatment of a spouse, former spouse, or other member of his family, among other requests. among the allegations are that samantha hid in a closet once from hegseth, that she developed escape plans for use if she felt she needed to get away from hegseth. that would be activated

with a code word, and that she did once put the escape plans into action, danielle noted in the document that she previously detailed these allegations to an fbi agent. at the end of last year, the trump transition team did not tell the armed services committee's republican chair or the democratic ranking member about the allegations told to the fbi, according to two sources. in an email exchange with nbc news. samantha hegseth, pete hegseth second wife, said i do not believe your information to be accurate and i have copied my lawyer. there was no physical abuse in my marriage. this is the only further statement i will make to you. i have to let you know that i am not speaking and will not speak on my marriage to pete. a lawyer for pete hegseth denied all allegations in a statement that reads in part, belated claims by

danielle dietrich and anti-trump far left democrat who is divorced from mr. hegseth brother and never got along with the hegseth family, do nothing to change that. both pete and samantha hegseth signed a court document in 2021 that said neither claimed to be a victim of domestic abuse. the pair divorced in 2018. let's bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie sirkin with more on this. julie, what are you seeing in this? and it seems to me that republicans would be looking at patterns. i think it gets complicated getting into family dynamics, but perhaps patterns of behavior. and would that then draw back to maybe alcohol abuse or other things? >> well, obviously, mika, those things have been long a concern for republican senators, especially the alcohol abuse. and if you remember that memo that was sent by a friend of the monterrey accuser, the woman who

accused pete hegseth of sexual assault in 2017, something he had denied, something charges were not pressed on him against. but all of this kind of raises questions about why none of these things made it into that fbi report. and i will tell you, just with those statements from samantha hegseth, those happened in two different instances. we were reporting this story for several weeks. we've known about the allegations specifically from danielle hegseth, and that she had communicated them to the committee for several days. we reached out to samantha for comment initially on those we haven't heard back until we reached out to an attorney for hegseth. and then that's when samantha hegseth told us she does not believe the allegations, that we had to be accurate when we went back to her and specifically pressed her on which allegations in this affidavit that have now been signed by your former sister in law, do you find inaccurate? and she simply said there was no physical abuse in her marriage. but many of the things that danielle is alleging, hiding in a closet, using a safe word, these are things that danielle

knows about. because samantha had confided in her, she confided with her friends, with her family members. and this behavior, danielle says, would get worse. when hegseth was abusing alcohol, obviously, samantha and pete hegseth both signed that document saying there was no domestic abuse. but i got to tell you, mika, i mean, in reporting this story, we've heard how difficult it was for senators on both sides of the aisle. by the way, i'm talking to republicans, too, to actually interview witnesses firsthand because of any confidentiality agreements that hegseth may have forced them to sign. in the case of samantha, perhaps it was an nda. and as we were reporting this as well, there were threats and intimidation along the way to stop our very pursuits. but significant here that for the first time, this is not an anonymous smear, as we've been hearing. this is a woman who went on the record and signed a sworn affidavit to congress under oath. >> julie, it's ali, even the anonymous smears, which is how hegseth tried to explain them away without directly

confronting them back during his confirmation hearing. even those were deeply reported by you and other members of our team here at the time. but i guess my question here in reading this latest allegation, who does it move? i know that there are senators that are on the fence that are reluctant, but can we put those names out there? are any of them willing to sign their name to saying no to hegseth? for dod secretary. >> it's a really good question, ali. and, you know, obviously, especially in a trump administration, one of them putting their neck out on the line if the vote's not going to move, is probably not something they're willing to do. so they need at least four of them to come out and vote against pete hegseth just because of the math here. and i do know at least five who are actually on the fence who don't want to vote for pete hegseth, not just because they don't like him or they don't think he's that qualified. i think the list actually grows beyond five. if you look at those folks, but are willing to vote for him because they want the president to have the cabinet that he selected. but these five, specifically susan collins, for example, saying yesterday that she's taking

these allegations seriously. i know a handful of republicans have looked at the affidavit and unredacted copy of which was in a room yesterday, where senators can go in and look at it behind closed doors. the problem here is, of course, is that the hex the team is mounting an aggressive rebuttal of this. you heard him during his hearing last tuesday. he wouldn't answer many of the questions that democrats tried to allude to in terms of potential abuse of his spouses, in terms of potential sexual assault, which he had denied. and i'm told that that is something that the trump transition team actually paid very close attention to. and that's part of the story, too. what did the transition team know that they did not provide in that fbi briefing? what did they know that they didn't want to do anything about it? and in this case, of course, danielle importantly wrote in her affidavit. and i think this is crucial, that part of the reason that she came forward is because i have been assured that making this public statement will ensure that certain senators who are still on the fence will vote against texas confirmation. that

is a stunning statement, and i know that right before she signed it, she needed those assurances. and they came from republicans. democrats are voting against him already. >> nbc's julie sirkin, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. and the host of way too early, ali vitali, as always, thank you as well for staying on with us. and coming up, nbc's janis mackey frayer joins us live from beijing with a look at china's reaction to the senate, confirming marco rubio as secretary of state and how this could impact america's relationship with the country. morning joe will be right back. morning joe will be right back. >> people. my mental health was better. but uncontrollable movements called td,tardive dyskinesia, started disrupting my day. td felt embarrassing. i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td,

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adviser during president trump's first term, said yesterday that trump has terminated his secret service security detail. bolton was ged the detail in 2021 amid threats to his life. the following year, the department of justice filed charges against an islamic revolutionary guard corps official for attempting to hire a hit man to target bolton. bolton himself has also been an outspoken critic of trump in recent years. the president was asked yesterday about his

decision. >> why did he. >> remove. >> john bolton's security clearance? >> there was a i think that was enough time. it's we. >> take a job. >> you take a job, you want to do a job, we're not going to have. security on people for the rest. >> of their lives. >> why should we? >> i thought he was. i thought he was a very dumb person. but i used him well, because every time people saw me come into a meeting. >> with john bolton. >> standing behind me, they thought that he'd attacked them because he was a warmonger. >> he's the one that got us. >> involved, along with cheney. >> and a couple of others. >> convinced bush, which was a terrible decision to blow. >> up the middle east. you know, we. >> blew up the middle east and we left. >> and we got nothing. >> out of it except a lot of death. we killed a lot of people. and john bolton was a, you know, one of those guys, a stupid guy. >> but no, you can't. >> have that for life. you shouldn't expect it for life. >> all right. we'll be following that. some say it appears to be retribution, which is something

donald trump talked about a lot during the campaign. the united states has a new top diplomat, former republican senator marco rubio of florida was sworn in as the nation's 72nd secretary of state yesterday. the first latino secretary of state in u.s. history is also the first confirmed member of donald trump's cabinet. for a look at how china is reacting to the news and the complications involved, we're joined live by nbc news international correspondent janis mackey frayer in beijing. janis, what can you tell us? well. >> his. >> first day in office today. >> and. >> secretary of. >> state marco rubio. >> made. >> it clear. >> that pushing back against china will be a focus for this administration. but there is a very. >> big hurdle. >> to get over. >> here in. >> relations. >> and beijing appears willing to overlook. >> its sanctions. >> against marco rubio now that he has been. >> confirmed at. >> a regular briefing with reporters here, i.

>> asked china's. >> foreign ministry if beijing was willing to drop the sanctions it brought against mr. rubio back in 2020. the reply, quote, china will firmly safeguard. >> its national interests. >> at the same. >> time. >> high level. >> officials of both china and the u.s. need to maintain contact in an appropriate manner. now, secretary rubio is one of many hard. liners on china. now in the white house. he was among several. u.s. individuals and companies sanctioned by the chinese government in 2020 twice over criticism of beijing's actions in hong kong and xinjiang. those are views that have remained unchanged. this is the first time, though, that a secretary of state has been sanctioned by china, which could be awkward for bilateral ties, especially as both president trump and xi jinping have. been signaling a possible reset for relations. i put the china sanctions issue to the former u.s. ambassador here, nicholas burns, in our exit interview earlier this month. this is what he said.

>> china's going. >> to have to deal with the as they've dealt with the biden administration, they'll have to deal. >> with the administration. >> of president. >> trump when he comes. >> into power. >> and that. >> means that, in my view, they should lift. >> the sanctions. >> on senator. >> rubio on. >> soon to be, if should he be confirmed, secretary of state rubio. >> why should china lift. >> the sanctions? >> because they. >> have to talk to the american secretary of state. >> if the sanctions are that, they won't talk to the secretary of state, to the soon to be secretary of state. that's not going to. >> work in. >> a world where china needs to work with the united states, needs to be talking to the. united states. >> about the difficult. >> issues, as. >> well as on. >> the issues where we may be more aligned to cooperate. >> whether china will drop the sanctions or just ignore them isn't clear. but officials have expressed this willingness to talk. but something to add here. for the past few weeks, chinese social media users have noticed. >> a change. >> in the way marco rubio's name is now being translated to chinese characters. back when he was sanctioned, he was rubio.

now he is rubio. the chinese foreign ministry spokesperson was actually asked this question today. is this how you're getting around sanctions by changing his name in chinese? she was visibly amused by the question. she said that she would look into it, but she also added, quote, i think his english name is more important. mika. >> wow. nbc's janis mackey frayer, thank you very much, katty kay. i'm curious, your thoughts on marco rubio moving on to the world stage now as secretary of state, a complicated world stage with donald trump as president. >> whichever name he goes under and whichever sanctions he may be eligible for. >> i thought. >> that was funny. look, i think one of rubio's biggest challenges may not be donald trump. it may be that there's quite a lot of diverse opinions within the foreign policy team. if tulsi gabbard is confirmed as dni, she is pretty much at odds with much of what marco rubio has stood for in the past. but

he has another problem, which is elon musk. so elon musk is actually the person who has been out there during the transition, making waves on the world stage in europe, in the united kingdom, in ukraine. elon musk has complicated business relationships with china. to what extent does elon musk start representing the real voice of american foreign policy? because people around the world understand that he is the person who is actually close to donald trump, compared to marco rubio, puts mr. rubio, senator rubio, secretary rubio in a tricky position. >> yeah. all right. and still ahead, democratic congressman richie torres of new york is asking what is next after the fall of his party's rising coalition. he'll join us to explain his thoughts on the state of the democratic party. morning joe will be right back. morning joe will be right back. >> wants to rule the world.

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design for thoughtful living. thoma. >> whoa! >> welcome back to morning joe. beautiful sunrise just before the top of the hour as we come up on 7:00 here in new york city. before we get back to our top stories, i want to tell you three more former major league baseball players will be enshrined in cooperstown this summer. that includes ichiro suzuki, now the first japanese born player elected to the national baseball hall of fame,

the two time american league batting champion and ten time all star and gold glove outfielder, was one vote shy of a unanimous selection who did not vote for ichiro to be in the hall of fame. he is joined by one of the 19 members of the 3000 strikeout club that's starting pitcher cc sabathia, who earns a first ballot selection, says his plaque will feature a yankees cap. also closer billy wagner, 422. career saves are the eighth most in big league history. jonathan lemire great collection of talent headlined by ichiro, who most people will remember, had an incredible career in japan before he even came to the major leagues at 27 years old his first season, he wins rookie of the year and al mvp. >> yeah, then he comes to the majors at 27 years old and still gets 3000 hits. >> extraordinary. and you. >> and you hit the right question here is who didn't vote for him. now it is not on this ballot. perhaps that baseball writer will come forward and say why he or she did not vote for

ichiro, but he is certainly an extraordinary hall of famer. and i will say, i think the scenes in cooperstown this summer are going to be extraordinary. his fan base is so huge and such a he's such a national treasure there in japan and beloved here in the states as well. cc sabathia also deserving. i think. we're going to see the hall of fame change how they measure pitchers. now. pitchers aren't going to get 300 wins anymore. the game has changed. sabathia. >> though. >> an old school workhorse, and then billy wagner in his last year of eligibility, makes it as well. he again, deservedly i think will start to see a few more closers creep in. carlos beltran came very close. >> there's expectation. >> he'll get in perhaps next year. andruw jones, another one who saw some momentum. he will also potentially in the years ahead get in. and it just is really this is one of i mean cooperstown of all the major sports. it's the hall of fame that seems to matter the most. it sparks the most debates. it's a wonderful place to visit. let me add that. and it's a deserving class. >> yeah, it's. >> a great class. beautiful town, good place to be in the summer, mika. so now, yankees

closer mariano rivera remains the only player ever to enter the hall of fame. unanimously, though ichiro clearly should have. >> well, if you take ichiro's japan days, he actually has more hits than pete rose. there we go. really need to look at the numbers, guys. okay. >> that's right, that's right. stay on. >> always on it. >> all right. it's two minutes past the top of the hour, and we want to get to our top story. this morning, more than 200 people convicted for their actions during the january 6th attack on the capitol are now out of prison. they're among the roughly 1500 people. president trump issued pardons to just hours after his inauguration. nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander has the latest. >> the president is facing new backlash for pardoning or commuting the sentences of everyone convicted for their actions on january 6th, and those still under investigation. >> these are the hostages. approximately 1500.

>> for a pardon? >> yes. full pardon. >> including those found guilty of assaulting police officers. four years ago, president trump condemned the violence. >> to those who engaged in. >> the acts. >> of violence and destruction. you do. not represent our country. >> and to. >> those who broke the law, you will pay. >> the president's move, something his own vice president had recently argued against. >> if you. >> committed violence on. that day, obviously. you shouldn't be pardoned. >> former dc police officer michael fanone was assaulted during the riot, getting protective orders against those who attacked him. >> the american people elected donald trump, knowing full well that he would pardon my attackers. and so it is the ultimate betrayal. >> we pressed the president. you would agree that it's never acceptable to assault. >> a police officer. >> sure. >> so then, if. >> i can among. >> those you pardon d.o.j. rodriguez. he drove a stun gun into the neck of a dc police officer. >> who was. >> abducted by the. mob that

day. he later confessed on video to. >> the fbi. >> and pleaded guilty for his crimes. why does he deserve. >> a pardon? well, i don't know. was it a pardon? because we're looking at commutes. >> and we're looking at pardons. okay, well, we'll take a look at. >> everything. >> but i can say this. murderers today are not even charged. >> i want to ask you. >> about the vice president. >> jd vance. he said if this is a week ago. he said if you committed violence on january 6th, obviously you should not be pardoned. >> why is your vice. >> president wrong? >> well, only for one reason. they they've. >> served years in jail. >> among those being released, the leaders of two far right groups. >> the. >> proud boys and enrique tarrio and founder of the oath keepers militia, stewart rhodes, both convicted of seditious conspiracy and other offenses. rhodes, who'd been sentenced to 18 years in prison, speaking shortly after his release. >> i think it's a good day for america that this is being all the wrongs are being undone. so none of these people should have been here in the first place. none of them were ever tried in a fair and fair trial. >> usa jacob chansley, known as

the qanon shaman who pleaded guilty to one count of felony obstruction of an official proceeding, posting. thank you, president trump. now i'm going to buy some other expletive guns and some trump allies who support pardons questioned if the president's move was too broad. i think they. >> were absolutely justified. again, i don't know all the cases. i certainly don't want to pardon. >> any violent actors. >> those pardons among stacks of executive actions already signed by president trump, including many focused on reversing biden administration policies, declaring a national energy emergency to repeal regulations on oil drilling and fossil fuels, and scrapping biden's border policies. >> we're getting rid. >> of all. >> of the cancer. i call. it cancer. the cancer. >> caused by. >> the biden administration. >> the president posting the white house's actively in the process of identifying and removing over a thousand presidential appointees from the previous administration that are not aligned with our vision. the administration firing the head of the coast guard, admiral linda fagan, the first woman to

lead a branch of the us military, relieved of her duties. president trump, touting more sweeping changes on his first full day in office. appearing with top tech ceos at the white house, including oracle's larry ellison, announcing a massive $500 billion investment in ai in the us, he says we'll create 100,000 jobs. also, president trump was asked, would he support elon musk buying tiktok? >> i would. >> be, if he wanted to. >> buy it. >> all right. that was nbc's peter alexander with that report. we want to turn back to the sweeping pardons to january 6th rioters. marc caputo with axios reports that trump vacillated during an internal debate over targeted clemency versus a blanket decision, according to two insiders. but as trump's team wrestled with the issue and planned a shock and awe batch of executive orders day one, trump just said, f it, release them all. an

adviser familiar with the discussions said. meanwhile, former proud boys leader enrique tarrio, who was released from prison yesterday after being sentenced to 22 years for seditious conspiracy, sentenced for seditious conspiracy, was interviewed by alex jones on infowars last night. tarrio told jones, quote, we went through hell and i'm going to tell you it was worth it, because what we stood for, what we've been fighting for and what we saw yesterday on the inauguration stage, we need people like pam bondi, kash patel and the rest of trump's cabinet to right all these wrongs. the people who did this, they need to feel the heat. they need to be put behind bars. let's bring in white house correspondent for politico and coauthor of the playbook, eugene daniels, and chief white house

correspondent for the new york times, peter baker. eugene, this reporting in politico. any more you'd like to add to it? >> yeah. >> i mean, what. >> you're hearing from tarrio and what you're going to. >> keep hearing, it seems, from these folks that are being released because of these pardons. >> is that. >> they anticipate they expect. that there is going to be. >> some kind of, in their eyes, retribution. >> to the people they think put them there wrongly. >> right. >> they want. donald trump, they want. pam bondi, they want kash patel to go after these people. even though. >> in pam bondi's. >> confirmation hearings. >> she she. >> has a. >> confirmation hearing. >> she said, you know. >> we're not going to do that. we're not this is not about retribution. this is all about justice. >> and so that tells you that there's going to. continue to be. >> a growing pressure. >> in trump's base. >> to. >> do something about. >> this, to go after the investigators like he has promised that, you know. >> that list of folks. >> that kash patel. >> had in his book, all of. >> those things. and that is something. >> that the trump administration.

>> says is. >> not going to happen. however, that. >> pressure is going. >> to continue. >> to build and build. and donald. >> trump. >> is moved by the. >> the popularity and the kinds of things. >> and the way that the folks within. >> his base think. >> peter baker, i'd love for you to expound on the issue of retribution and what we see happening right now in trump's first moves as president. and also, if republicans could do anything at this point about it, what would it be? >> well, they don't seem inclined to, honestly. i mean, look, if republicans. >> are. >> going to. >> confirm pam bondi and. >> kash patel, then they are signing. >> off on. >> what happens. >> after they they're confirmed. >> because there's no. secret here. there's no mystery. president trump has made very clear. >> what he. >> intends to do. >> and anybody who. >> thought. >> well, he won't really follow through on. >> it, it was. just bluster and so forth. >> ought to. >> take his actions from day one and recognize, in fact, he's serious. he he believes in what he said, and he plans to do what he said he would do. and everybody should assume that that's the case. and i think that people who were involved in

prosecuting these january. >> 6th. >> attackers now have something to worry about. now, obviously, there. >> is a there's. >> it's not easy to prosecute prosecutors. there are, you know, there are rules about that kind of thing. courts aren't necessarily going to allow that. but that doesn't mean they can't be investigated or their lives made miserable. that's part of the goal. you know, president trump has said this in the past, that when he sued tim o'brien, who was an author, who wrote a book he didn't like about trump, trump said the point was, even though he didn't win the suit, it was okay because i made his life miserable. so i think anybody who thought that he wasn't going to pursue that, he wasn't. >> going. >> to follow through on that. >> they're learning otherwise. >> let's bring into this conversation ryan riley. he covers the justice department and federal law enforcement for nbc news. he's also the author of the book sedition hunters how january 6th broke the justice system. ryan, good morning. you've got a new piece up on nbcnews.com about some of the january 6th rioters that president trump pardoned and who

now are free, who are some that captured your attention? most? >> yeah. well, one of them, i mean, i have a sort of a long backstory with is, is dj rodriguez because when i first started working with the sloughs, this was one of the first people they identified to me. he's the individual who drove that stun gun into mike fanon's neck, and at the time, the sloughs were having trouble getting his name through to the fbi. the fbi had hundreds of thousands of tips. they were completely overwhelmed. and so one of the sleuths went to me. they laid out the story. and, you know, you know how this process can work behind the scenes in terms of getting these over the line legally. right. you have to convince a lawyer somewhere in your office that they aren't going to get sued. the company isn't going to get taken down because you identified the wrong person. but what was great about this case is there was zero reasonable doubt at all that donald, that this individual, dj rodriguez, had driven a stun gun into mike fanon's neck. i had it frame by frame, went through every single frame. i watched him write. i saw that hat. i saw those unique pins that he had on his hat. there's zero reasonable doubt whatsoever that danny rodriguez

drove a stun gun into mike fanon's neck, and we know that for a fact now after the fact, because he confessed on video to the fbi and then swore an oath and said before a federal judge that he had indeed committed these crimes. and that goes case after case after case after case after case. the evidence here is completely overwhelming. there is zero doubt what these individuals did, because this was one of the most filmed crimes in american history. you can almost do the nfl thing where you switch from one view and then look at another perspective and see that happen. now, that's not to say that some of these cases haven't taken a ton of work from the online sleuths, but, you know, these cases are really overwhelming. and the evidence is just so out there, you know, some other individuals who come to mind is this this individual who actually has this, this face mask over his face, and he actually beats officers. he hangs over the lower west tunnel. he takes his feet. he kicks them repeatedly, again and again and again and again and again. he assaults them over and over and over and over and over. and he ended up with a sentence of 20 years in federal prison, which is one of the longest

sentences in the january 6th caseload. this was an individual who was nicknamed flag gator cop hater. and there's a photo of him standing in front, masked up. he's got his glasses on. he's standing in front of that of the gallows that were set up on january 6th. he talked about this beforehand and then he went in. his name is david dempsey. so that's another individual who is now on this pardon list. and that's an individual who a lot of other january 6th defendants didn't want didn't want pardoned. i remember speaking with nicole reffitt, the wife of guy reffitt, who was one of the who was the first writer who was convicted at trial. and she doesn't like that guy. she wishes that he didn't get pardoned. and that's something that i've heard from other people, is that he that there are people in here who they don't think deserved a pardon. they did not want these sweeping pardons. but, you know, to eugene's point earlier, what we had here is a huge difference, this gap between what we were told beforehand, which, you

know, if you take history as a lesson, if you've covered the trump administration before, you know, this wasn't going to be the final answer contemporaneously. but what they were telling me back in the spring was that, yeah, we're going to look at these on a case by case basis. we're going to really look at those details. same thing during the transition. yeah. we're going to look at these in a case by case basis. what ended up happening when donald trump went into the white house, as you just put up that story earlier from axios in that reporting effort. that's what he said. right. so if donald trump has the power to do things and he can overrule people and sort of cut through this, this bureaucracy, that's what he's going to do. but then, as you saw with that clip from peter alexander, you know, you saw him question on d.o.j. rodriguez and it was clear that donald trump didn't know what he was talking about in terms of dj rodriguez, because he hasn't looked at the details of these cases. >> and by the way, as you've reported, dj rodriguez went on telegram afterward. he's the man convicted. he pleaded guilty, actually, to driving that taser into the base of officer fanone skull and said, quote, tase the f out of the blue, bragged about it, talked about it after the fact. and as you know, many of

these defendants went in front of judges literally in tears and said, i was told a lie. i believed the lie. donald trump sent me there. i apologize for my behavior. they plead out. many of them go to jail now free. so i don't know if you saw in our last hour, ryan, we had kind of a chilling interview, frankly, with officer fanone where he said he kind of detailed the threats that he's been enduring for the last several years. but at least the people were in jail. now they're out there. and he fully expects violence. based on what you know about these people and based on what we've heard from some of them already in the last 24 hours, what kind of retribution are you expecting? >> i think, you know, that's what we've heard from people emerging from the jail. and, you know, after this, i'm going to have to text mike because he actually hadn't told me that story before about his mom having that bag thrown at him, that bag of, you know, i guess we'll call it excrement to comply with standards. although he had a much more colorful description of that. and so, i

mean, that's the reality, right? if that's the reality of these cases. and i think people are very afraid of, of, of what's going to happen, because what you have is 400 people who assaulted law enforcement officers being freed. right. and, you know, you talk about what, you know, donald trump talks about this idea that his vice president was only wrong in one way and that these people have been in prison. actually, donald trump's completely wrong on that. donald trump is totally wrong on that, because his action made sure that 200 cases against individuals who have not yet been charged, but who have been identified to the fbi will not go forward. there's almost a year left on the statute of limitations. and what he has ensured is that those cases will not go forward. those cases are now stopped. so the names of those individuals who assaulted officers, some of those officers will never learn the name of the officer of the individual who assaulted them, because they've overwhelmed the system here, they've overwhelmed the system. >> biggest investigation in the history of the fbi masks investigation, mass conviction,

all the trials, all the police now wiped off the books, nbc's ryan riley. ryan, thanks so much, mika. >> all right. this morning, there's also new fallout over president biden's pardons of five family members in his last minutes in office. biden, under the guise of protecting them from unfair political and legal persecution, preemptively pardoned his brothers, james and frank biden and his sister, valerie biden owens and john owens and sarah biden and the spouses of valerie and james. it's disgusting. bill daley, a longtime biden friend who is white house chief of staff under president obama, told axios. it confirms that there are serious concerns about culpability. daley said the bidens will never wipe this quote stain from the former president's legacy. meanwhile, npr reports that before biden commuted the life sentence of indigenous activist

leonard peltier peltier on monday, he received a warning from outgoing fbi director christopher wray. peltier was convicted of killing two fbi agents in the 1970s. wray told the white house that commuting his sentence would be shattering to the victims loved ones and undermine the principles of justice and accountability that our government should represent. wray sent a letter to the white house on january 10th. in it, the fbi director expressed vehement and steadfast opposition to the commutation of leonard peltier sentence. and so that's the pushback that republicans are given. when asked about the january 6th pardons. they say, look at this. >> yeah. the trump team has tried to justify in some way, any way, the january 6th pardons by pointing to what the previous president did. but we know, of course, these january 6th pardons were in the works long

before this wave of last minute pardons from president biden. so, peter baker. >> let's take a. >> minute and talk about this. you know, certainly there were other preemptive pardons to general milley, doctor fauci, some of the january 6th committee, those received the most of the attention on inauguration day. but now there's pushback from democrats on some others, as mika just said, the fbi director made clear he vehemently disagrees with the leonard peltier commutation. that's something that he's a cause has been, you know, in the news for a long time. and finally, there's been action there. and then in particular, at least democrats i've talked to a lot of them, even some pretty staunch. biden allies, really disappointed with the pardons for his family, including family members who have never been accused. >> of any wrongdoing. >> who have, frankly, not names that americans really know that, as bill daley said, it's almost giving credence to this idea, to this unfounded republican theory that there was a, quote, biden crime family. democrats also worry about the precedent it sets. like now, donald trump could pardon every member of his

family in four years when he leaves office. so talk to us about the reaction you're hearing. on both of these cases, the fbi case, but then also the biden family. >> yeah. no. >> i think, jonathan. >> i'm hearing the same thing. >> you hear a lot of. >> democrats very sour on president. biden as he. leaves office. he really marked his legacy with his final actions in office. and it. >> raises all the questions you you mentioned. it does. >> suggest. >> you know, a precedent that's. now been broken in a way we've never seen a president pardoned this many members of his family, that's for sure. presidents have, from time to time. >> really, just recently. >> you know, pardoned individuals. for instance, president bill clinton pardoned his half brother roger for a long past. drug sentence. >> obviously. >> president trump pardoned charles kushner. >> who was the father of. >> jared kushner. >> his son in law. >> for. >> you know, crimes. >> that had. >> been, you know, he served a sentence for and so forth. this is different. he in this case, including the hunter pardon. we see president biden now, former

president biden pardoning a half a dozen members of his family in some cases never been charged, but clearly giving the indication that he did something wrong, that they did something. >> wrong, or could. >> have done something wrong. >> certainly, that's an. inference that republicans will draw on. a lot of democrats are very unhappy about it. they feel like biden. >> you know. >> has, you know, undermined the party. he undermined the party by deciding to run again when he knew. >> he was going to be. >> 86 at the end of his second term. and that would be problematic. and he undermined the party by taking away their argument on rule of law against donald trump. >> because even though. >> there's a difference between what joe biden did on the way out of office and these january 6th pardons, which are so sweeping and involve a lot of. >> people with. >> extraordinary violence who have all. >> been convicted in many cases convicted, it. >> gives enough. of a justification or rationale that it. >> makes it hard. >> for. >> democrats to mount any serious criticism, because people will just say, what about biden? >> right? no, that's that is what they're saying. and the implication that something went wrong was part of president

biden's statement. they he says this is not an implication. they did anything wrong, but that we see what's coming with president trump. and it's complicated, but it's an argument the republicans have. >> yeah. >> and certainly what biden did. >> that's right. and a lot of democrats, as we've been reporting this morning, have questions about these pardons. but of course, the biden team answer from the allies is that it's donald trump who created this environment that we feel like these pardons are necessary because for so long, he, he and fellow republicans have pledged to investigate the biden family and to seek retribution for political foes. the president felt like he had to take the step. >> right. and does this now set up a system in which one president after the other feels they're going to use this pardon power in more expansive, more personal ways than it was perhaps intended originally? that seems to be what's happening. and eugene, it puts democrats in a difficult position, not just this democrats that i have spoken to are kind of struggling with how to push back against donald trump at the moment. they've got issues like immigration. they

feel they've really let themselves down on immigration in the election. and so they're not perhaps pushing back on immigration issues as much as they might do. now, the pardon issue, because of what joe biden did, they don't feel they can be as vocal as they might have been. how what's your sense with democrats at the moment of where their head is on how they should push back against donald trump, when they should push back what the priorities are going to be, what the medium is going to be. >> the heads are all. >> over. >> the place. yeah. everything you said is exactly what the conversations are having. >> look, in 2017 to. >> 2021, it was really. >> easy for them to talk. >> about the. >> things that donald trump was doing. >> it was. >> easy for them to kind of come together, because they also had a lot of republicans. >> who were saying some of the similar things. >> they don't have. >> that anymore. so it. is just them. >> and frankly, donald trump is. >> more powerful than he ever. >> has been in this country. right? his approval. rating is higher than it's ever been. >> and when. >> what they learned in. >> the election. >> when they were talking to voters, not just us, when they were talking to voters, that some of the things. >> that they feel like donald trump is saying made sense to voters, whether they be

democrats or independents. >> the folks. >> that democrats. >> really care about. >> and so. >> you're not going to see for. >> a. little while any kind of like unified resistance. part of. >> that is. >> because they are tired, right? they're exhausted. this has been a decade of. >> back and. >> forth with donald trump. i did. >> the. >> dnc chair forum last week. >> we moderated it, politico. >> and we asked. >> them basically like, what does it mean to. >> be a. democrat now because you spent a. decade basically letting. >> your party be. >> defined by donald trump? >> that is the thing they have to figure. >> out and what they're trying to do, and. >> they're all over. >> the place. on how to fight against donald trump while moving. >> to the to the center. >> on some of these issues that independents and democrats. >> cared about in this election. >> all right. politico's eugene daniels and peter baker of the new york times, thank you both very much for your reporting this morning. turning now to that powerful winter storm that swept across the southern part of the country yesterday, bringing deadly temperatures and record snowfall to some regions untouched by harsh winter

conditions in years. at least ten people have died, including three by exposure to the arctic cold and five in a crash on an icy road in south texas. multiple airports closed around the southeast, and over 2000 flights canceled in and out of the u.s. the storm is part of an intense blast of arctic air that brought heavy snow to the northeast and mid-atlantic over the weekend, and a look now at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. rain is on the horizon in los angeles. as the l.a. times reports, forecasters are expecting a much anticipated change of weather for the region, which has suffered through a prolonged dry spell that has fueled deadly and destructive fires. still, the national weather service has extended its red flag warning through tomorrow after a day of strong winds fueled scattered fires across southern california. netflix is raising

prices across its existing plans. the company's ad supported platform will now cost 7.99 a month, up from 6.99. the premium level subscription is increasing by $2 to 24.99. it comes as the streaming service reported a 44% increase in new subscribers in the fourth quarter, and new york city is rolling out plans to build thousands of new apartments. the proposal would rezone parts of midtown manhattan that currently prohibit new residential construction, as the city works to address a serious housing shortage. some of the new buildings would include homes designed for moderate and low income new yorkers. the plan must be approved by the city council, which is expected to vote on it this year. and still ahead on morning joe, our next guest is taking a look at why democrats started losing voters of color and what the party can do to win them back. congressman

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on rolling back diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, among them ordering all federal employees to be placed on paid leave starting today. while our next guest has been a longtime supporter of marginalized communities, he has also criticized his own party, particularly on the far left, for its outsized role in shaping americans perception of democrats priorities. democratic congressman richie torres of new york joins us now. he has an opinion piece in the free press entitled the rising democratic coalition fell. now what? thank you for being on, and i'll start there. now what? >> well, look. >> the ground. >> beneath us. >> may be shifting. >> class is increasingly replacing race as the most powerful predictor of voting

behavior in. >> american politics. >> and by class. >> i mean educational attainment. >> you know, there. >> were a few. >> congressional districts that saw a greater swing toward donald trump than my congressional district. new york 15 in the bronx. the bronx is one of the most. democratic areas in the country. the median. >> level of educational. >> attainment is a high school diploma. or less. in 2012, president barack obama won 96% of the vote in the bronx. 2024 vice president harris only won 74% of more than. 20 point swing. or take stark. >> county. >> which was almost exclusively latino. it has voted for the democratic party. >> since the. >> 19th century. in 2016, hillary clinton won it by more than 60 percentage points. >> on 2024. >> donald trump won nearly 60% of the vote. >> and so for me, the. lesson learned from the 2024. >> election is that voters. >> of color. >> can no longer be treated. >> as a monolith. >> or taken for granted. >> you know, we. >> as democrats have.

>> to hustle. >> for every vote. >> and every. >> voting bloc, and no one and nothing can be taken for granted. >> so i think it's we could go on for hours looking back at what happened, but i'd like to look forward and ask you, because you hear a lot of people saying democrats failed to meet people where they are. you got to meet people where they are, and you have to have a resounding message that breaks through. right. great advice. it sounds great, right? i want to know how. i want to know what that looks like exactly. especially in this climate of disinformation, in a climate where clearly democrats lost terribly in the worst way ever. and we are sitting here, democrats in a state of, i think, denial as to how to move forward, or maybe a lack of knowledge as to how to move forward. so educate us. how do you meet people where they are in this climate? what should

democrats be focusing on and how should they be doing it? >> well, look, for. >> me, the. >> democratic party should have a simple. mission which is to lower cost, lower crime rates, make government work for the people rather. than for the interest groups. and we have to recognize that working class voters. >> of. >> color are largely on the center. >> in the. >> center on issues like public safety and border security, and we have to meet them where. >> they are. >> if we swing. >> the pendulum. >> too far to. >> the left. >> we risk alienating. >> working class people. >> of color. >> and working class. >> people of color are no different. >> from most americans. most americans want. >> the. >> basics and affordable cost of living. safe streets, secure borders. >> and so we should be focused like a laser on delivering. >> the basics and ignore the fashionable nonsense that has taken hold. >> in our politics. >> okay, and when you say swing too far to the left, what do you mean? specifically. >> when the case of the 2024 election it. >> was immigration. you know.

>> as i've said. >> repeatedly, i. >> felt the president. >> did too little, too. late to. >> secure the border. >> and we paid. >> a heavy price in the. 2024 election. >> for me, both inflation. >> and immigration. >> were the leading. >> causes of democratic defeat in 2024. >> and in the case. >> of immigration. >> i felt like. >> the biden. >> administration did make fatal. >> miscalculations that cost us the election. >> congressman, good morning. great to have you back on the show. i was struck by the term you just used fashionable nonsense. and you get some of that in your piece and you share an anecdote about talking to a white activist who called themselves a police abolitionist, saying, i'm here to help you. we're going to defund the police. we're going to get rid of the cops. and you said, wait, hang on a second. can you talk a little bit about that conversation? why you believe that's an important message to for democrats? >> yeah. >> so i. >> spoke to an activist. >> who was. >> advocating for abolishing. >> the police. >> and i said.

>> let me get. >> this straight. you want to. >> conduct a social. >> experiment on the lowest income communities of color in places. >> like the bronx. >> and what happens if that experiment goes badly? what happens if it leads to an outbreak of gun violence and gang violence and youth violence. >> like you. >> live in a. wealthy white. >> neighborhood in. >> an ivory. >> tower. insulated from the consequences of your utopianism. >> whereas my constituents are poor people of color who have to live with high costs and high. >> crime rates. >> and we should be speaking to the lived. >> experience of people. >> of color. >> when you. >> consider some of the most utopian ideas in politics. >> whether it's abolishing. >> prisons or abolishing the police or. abolishing ice. >> those ideas do not come from working class people from places. >> like the bronx. those ideas. >> typically come from activists and. >> academics who are. out of touch with working class people. >> so. >> congressman, you spoke about how just now the democrats have lost at least a portion of their base, this idea of the black, brown and white voters together.

yet at the same time, we are seeing just now from the new administration memos going out to federal agencies last night saying to pause, you know, to put on leave anyone who they deem a di hire, which is being interpreted as the first step towards eliminating those people. so first of all, just those positions. so give us your reaction just to that news. but also how do you then rectify this? how do you square the circle here from more voters leaning towards trump, even as the administration takes these steps? look, i disapprove of the. >> actions of the trump administration. and for me, you know. >> trump lacks the. character to be president of the united states. but i'll. >> speak bluntly. i'm just not. >> aware of a single. i've never had a constituent tell me that his or her highest priority was dea. my constituents tell me we're. >> concerned about crime rates, about the. >> cost of. >> living. about housing. >> we want you to. >> focus on. >> those issues. >> and so that's where my. >> priority is going to lie. >> i obviously. disapprove of just.

>> about everything. >> donald trump has done so. >> far, but we have. >> to. >> focus on the issues that matter to voters. and, for example, donald trump's decision to pardon. you know, the perpetrators. >> of january 6th. >> who assaulted police officers. that's something that's deeply unpopular and deeply offensive to people across the political spectrum. and that's an issue in which we should. >> be focusing. >> congressman, you and i were speaking in the break and you made that comment about die. so going forwards, how do you think your party can position itself as best as possible to take back the house in the 2026 midterms? is it, as some people have suggested, by making sure that more candidates like yourself from the kind of center center right of the democratic party run for office? >> look. >> i feel like we should and this is true of every elected official. we should always challenge ourselves to ensure that we're remaining in touch with our constituents. because when you're. >> a washington, dc. >> you can easily become. >> out. of touch. you can easily become insulated. and you know, when deciding what position to take on an issue, we should ask

ourselves, you know, what is the position of the american people? like, if this were a referendum, how would the american people vote on that issue? because i feel like you. can you cannot veer too far from the public without risking a public backlash. and on immigration, you know, the pendulum was swung so far to the left that it has led to a public backlash that has made our country more restrictionist, more right wing, more reactionary, not less. >> all right. democratic congressman ritchie torres of new york, thank you very much. his new piece is online now for the free press. coming up, we'll show you the moment a bishop called on president trump to show mercy to migrants and other groups. the president has criticized for years. plus, we'll dig into the new allegations against pete hegset, as senators are set to vote as early as tomorrow. on his nomination for defense secretary. morning joe is coming

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start your risk-free trial today at stamps.com. sparks dissolve under the tongue. dissolvables work faster than old school pills. get $30 off at ro covid. >> stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the msnbc daily newsletter. get the best of msnbc all in one place. sign up for msnbc daily@msnbc.com. >> back at 745 here on the east coast. during an inaugural prayer service at washington's national cathedral yesterday. the bishop delivering the sermon appeared to publicly plead with president trump, who sat in the front row of the congregation to show kindness and mercy to people across the country. >> i ask you to have mercy upon

the people in our country who are scared now. there are gay, lesbian and transgender children in democratic, republican and independent families, some who fear for their lives. and the people, the people who pick our crops and clean our office buildings, who labor in poultry farms and meatpacking plants, who wash the dishes after we eat in restaurants and work the night shifts in hospitals, they they may not be citizens or have the proper documentation, but the vast majority of immigrants are not criminals. >> what did you think of the service? what did you think? did you like it? did you find it exciting? not too exciting, was it? i didn't think it was a good service. no. thank you very much.

>> thank you. press. >> thank you. press. they can do much better. >> trump went even further on social media, calling reverend marianne bundy a, quote, radical left hard line trump hater, saying she and the episcopal church owe the public an apology. mika. he went on to call the service a beautiful service inside the national cathedral. boring and uninspiring. >> wow. okay. reverend al will be joining us on our fourth hour to discuss that more. moving on. for more than 80 years, the dupont columbia awards have recognized outstanding audio and video reporting in broadcast, documentary and online. tonight, the columbia journalism school will award 16 of the 30 finalists being considered for what is often referred to as the pulitzers of broadcast. joining us now, the dean of the columbia journalism school, jelani cobb, is also a staff writer at the new yorker. and it's great to

have you on. thank you, i love this. i can't wait to see who wins tonight, but i have i can't help but to notice. among your finalists, local news organizations who've done incredible work, and i'm a follower of local news. i spent many years working in local news, and i especially want to put a framework around investigative reporting, because local news is often getting cut. that's right. and investigative reporting is so incredibly important to what we do. >> it is. >> and so first i'll just. >> say i will be as excited as you to find out who wins, because even i don't know. >> oh, wow. >> okay, so you can't give us a hint. >> i can't give i can't give it away. >> if i. >> wanted to. >> but on the other side of it, you're absolutely right. >> you know, we. know that that local news is really. >> the lifeblood of. >> our profession. >> and moreover. >> like, investigative news is really important. and, you know, but. >> the stories. >> that have the biggest. >> impact are those. >> things that. happen on the.

local level. that's right. the things that you have direct ability as a citizen. >> to. >> influence and impact. >> and so. >> you know, we have and this is the list. you see. >> there a good number of. local news. >> nine of. >> them, the people on the ground living in the communities, covering the stories. that's right. it's. yeah. >> and i'll tell you some of these. >> stories we have. >> you know, there are stories about local immigration, local implications. of the. immigration crisis. there are stories about domestic violence and the ways in which, you know, our judicial system has not, you know, handled it correctly on the on. >> the kind of local. >> level there are. stories about kind of climate and local implications of climate change, all these things on the. >> kind. >> of granular level, you know, there's a series. >> of. >> you know, hate. >> comes to. >> main street. which is, you know, and that out of nashville, which is looking at the kind of rise of extremism and its implications. >> in local and. >> statewide politics. and so, you know, these. >> are stories that really

people have to have. >> in mind as they're kind of going about their lives. >> on the front lines. >> the front lines. >> exactly. >> and local news so endangered on the broadcast level, particularly on the print. >> side as well. >> i'm a. >> print alum with the new york daily news. >> certainly we. >> believe in local news here on this set. talk to us. >> you mentioned the one. >> there in nashville. >> but highlight a. >> couple more for us. the stories that really, really you found impactful. >> well. >> you know. >> there's so many of them. you know, there's an amazing story about the coverage of the ukraine war and specifically from the vantage point of dmitri muratov, who is the editor of novaya gazeta, you know, which is a publication that is really. it's hard to think of. an organization that has faced more jeopardy! as a news organization and continue to do. good work. >> and important work. >> there's a really interesting documentary on william f buckley and the history of conservatism in the united states. and, you know, he's a figure. who has

kind of titanic influence, especially in that kind of middle third of the 20th century. and, you know, you can see the kind of roots of his influence, even. kind of. translating into kind of modern conservatism now. and so they just, you know, an array of really important stories that we have here. and it's an embarrassment of riches, almost. >> i just. was i have a broad question to end with, just because you're here, and i would love to hear your take on the state of journalism today, the challenges it faces moving forward. >> you know, i think that here's the thing. we know about the challenges of the business model. we know about the challenges of technology and ai and these things. my position has always been that. but for those real concerns, those are real problems, right? but if we weren't focused on those things, we would recognize this as a golden era of journalism. there is so much innovative work being

done that people are deploying tools. there's one of our stories which uses ai to analyze the records of emancipated slaves who were given land and then had that land taken away. we are telling stories in dynamic ways. we're looking at new ways of reaching audiences. and, you know, as much as those challenges are really important, we should also focus on the incredible amount of dynamic work that's being done in our profession right now. >> dean of columbia university school of journalism and staff writer at the new yorker, jelani cobb, always good to see you. thank you so much for coming on this morning. still ahead, nearly two dozen states are filing a lawsuit aimed at blocking donald trump's executive order to end birthright citizenship. we'll speak with the new jersey attorney general who is leading the charge. he'll join us to discuss the case. plus, the hosts of pod save america will be our guest to discuss the state of the democratic party

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>> sometimes great talent is. right under your nose. >> what's your name again? >> still ahead on morning joe. more than 400 people pardoned by

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>> they they've served years in jail. they they. >> should not have served. >> excuse me. >> 20 years. they've served years. >> in jail. >> and murderers. >> don't even go to jail. >> in this country. >> and we had 1500. >> we have 16 under review. as you know, we commuted about 16 of them because it looks like they could have done. things that were. not acceptable for a full pardon. >> but these people have served. >> years of jail and their lives have been ruined. >> that was president trump yesterday defending his pardons for around 1500 people charged with crimes connected with the january 6th attack on the capitol. we'll have more on his comments from the white house, as well as reaction from republican senators on capitol hill. we'll also hear from a former metropolitan police officer who was beaten by rioters while defending the capitol. michael fanone will join us in just a moment. plus, we'll go through the new allegations against pete hegseth

days before the senate is expected to vote on his nomination for secretary of defense. also ahead, the president has terminated secret service protection for an adviser from his first term. we'll explain that situation and we'll have the latest on the extreme weather sweeping across the south. incredible. good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is wednesday, january 22nd. along with willie and me, we have the co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay joins us. and the host of way too early, ali vitali. joe is off this morning. let's dive right in. president trump yesterday defended the pardons he issued to roughly 1500 january 6th rioters. more than 400 of the pardons were for people who were

convicted of assaulting police officers. nbc's peter alexander repeatedly pressed the president on the issue. >> you would agree. >> that it's never acceptable to. assault a police officer? sure. so then, if i can. >> among those. >> you pardoned jay rodriguez. he drove. a stun gun into the neck of a d.c. police officer. >> who was. >> abducted by the mob that day. he later confessed on video. >> to the fbi. >> and pleaded guilty. >> for his crimes. >> why does he deserve a pardon? >> well, i don't know. was it a pardon? because we're looking at commutes and we're looking at pardons. okay, well, we'll take a look at everything, but i can say this. murderers today are not even charged. you have murderers that aren't charged all over. you take a look at what's going on in philadelphia, take a look at what's going on in la, where people murder people and they don't get charged. these people have already served years in prison, and they've served them viciously. it's a disgusting prison. it's been horrible. it's

inhumane. it's been a terrible, terrible thing. >> mr. president, mr. president, you're a president who has long said that you backed the blue. >> but aren't you. >> sending the. >> message that assaulting. >> officers is. >> okay with these parties? >> no, the opposite. in fact, i'm going to be letting two officers from washington police, d.c. i believe that from d.c, but i just approved it. they were arrested, put in jail for five years because they went after an illegal. and i guess something happened where something went wrong, and they arrested the two officers and put them in jail for going after a criminal, a rough criminal, by the way. and i'm actually releasing. no, i'm the friend of i am the friend of police. more than any president that's ever been in this office. >> so a fact check on the president's statement about the d.c. officers he said he intends to pardon. they were not chasing

an immigrant who was in the u.s. illegally. back in october of 2020. the officers were in an unmarked car when they chased a man named caron hilton brown, who was on a moped. hilton brown crashed the moped and died during the pursuit that authorities said violated police policy and was illegally reckless. authorities also said both officers later lied about the incident to forestall a potential federal civil rights investigation. despite their convictions, both officers were allowed to go free pending the outcome of their appeals, which are still ongoing. so there's that. and really, we're learning more also about who else who were released. >> yeah, a thin defense. it should be pointed out by president trump of what he did under questioning from peter alexander and didn't know if he'd commuted or pardoned and then, as you said, had some bad

information in his defense there, 211 inmates, though in federal custody for their january 6th convictions, were freed yesterday morning. video taken by nbc news shows some of the rioters leaving a prison in orlando. they signed a flag they say they want to send to president trump. many of those who were pardoned had committed violent acts on january 6th. that includes tyler bradley dikes of south carolina. he was sentenced to 57 months after he stole a police riot shield and used it against officers. andrew tiktok had a six year sentence for assaulting officers with bear spray and a metal whip. prosecutors say david dempsey was one of the most violent rioters and received one of the longest sentences 20 years in prison. prosecutors say dempsey viciously assaulted officers who were defending the tunnel outside of the capitol. he attacked them with pepper spray, broken pieces of furniture and anything else he could get his hands on to use as a weapon. and

he is free this morning. and then there are the two people who played central roles in planning the capitol attack of january 6th, proud boys leader enrique tarrio and the founder of the oath keepers militia, stewart rhodes, both convicted of seditious conspiracy. tarrio was serving a 22 year sentence. rhodes was supposed to be in prison for 18 years. rhodes had this to say when he was released yesterday. >> i think trump did the right thing. president trump did the right thing by letting these guys out and partying them, because they did not get a fair trial. that's not on him. that's on the doj. you want a fair system and run fair trials. that's one thing. if you don't do that, don't be surprised if you don't enforce the presumption of innocence. >> so then there's the reaction from lawmakers on capitol hill to the blanket pardons of january 6th defendants. the somewhat mixed some gop members of the house freedom caucus, including andy biggs, chip roy

and lauren boebert, visited the dc jail yesterday in a sign of support. boebert said those who were pardoned were not being released fast enough. she also invited all of the january 6th rioters in custody at the dc jail on a guided tour of the capitol after their release. meanwhile, some republican senators defended the pardon, while others tried to explain away trump's decision. >> are you feeling about some. >> of the. >> trump's executive. >> actions. >> particularly specifically pardon? >> love him. what about the pardon? yeah, i think they were absolutely justified. again, i don't know all the cases. i certainly don't want to pardon. >> any violent. >> actors, but there was a real miscarriage of justice here. so i totally support. >> for violent offenders. are you comfortable. >> with that? >> i haven't seen the details. >> but i think a lot of those crimes were. >> definitely. >> well deserved. >> listen, this is him. he said he was going to do this. >> during the campaign. and he did. >> exactly. what are you comfortable? >> well, if you're asking me if. >> it's what i.

>> would have. >> done, what i have said is, is that. >> folks who commit violence. >> what stigma do you think. >> that. >> that he's. >> skipping on this? >> are you comfortable with these pardons. >> for january 6th? >> well, as i said, sorry. sorry. >> as i've said. >> before, we're looking forward to. >> the next four years. >> not the last word. >> what message does this send to police. officers who were there? >> that they. >> were the party of law and order? what about the office? what about the people that were attacked? >> the officers. >> that were. >> attacked that day? you got questions of biden? >> just to recap, that was senator ron johnson, mostly supportive of pardons, senator josh hawley saying he wouldn't have pardoned rioters who committed violent acts. and senate majority leader john thune deflecting questions from reporters. compare that to other gop senators yesterday who spoke out against the pardons. >> people who. >> committed violent crimes on.

>> january 6th of. 2021 should. >> not be pardoned. >> and i think. >> this is. >> a terrible day. >> for our. >> justice department. it's wrong to assault anybody, but certainly to assault an officer. and i'm a big blue guy. >> i'm disappointed. >> to see that. >> and. i do. >> hear the message that he. >> sent to the media. >> to these. >> great men and women. >> that stood by us. >> am i concerned about it? i mean, it's again, it's not ideal, but i'm not overly concerned about it either. i think that the gift is that it's all behind us now and we can stop talking about it. that's what i'm trying to do. >> is figure out there are some commutations to me. >> i just can't agree. i'm about to. file two bills that. >> will. increase the penalties. >> up to. >> and including the death penalty for the murder of. >> a police officer and increasing the penalties and creating federal crimes for assaulting a police officer. that should give you everything you need to know about my position. look, it is it's it

was surprising to me that it was a blanket. pardon? now i'm going through the details. >> and former senate majority leader mitch mcconnell told semafor yesterday, quote, no one should excuse violence and particularly violence against police officers. so jonathan lemire, i mean, obviously in your book, you covered the big lie and all that transpired. these pardons seem to be in some ways, you could argue, the will of the people. 2025 trump campaigned on this. this is no surprise. nobody should be shocked if anyone is shocked they were not listening. having said that, there's some differences here. you heard, i think it was senator john thune saying, look at biden's pardons or or something. so biden did pardon his family. and that is a legitimate conversation to have. i think that's the gray area. some would argue that sets up a really bad precedent. they can you can definitely argue there is a lot of criticism you could

put on those actions, or you could also see the world, perhaps how they were looking at what was coming at them. that's one conversation, but the other one is about assaulting police officers. the other one is about committing acts of violence against our capitol. the people who work there, our vice president, our speaker of the house, assaulting cops, video of it. and there, there's a clear difference. joe biden to respond to senator thune. he pardoned the people who defended the capitol, and donald trump pardoned the people who assaulted the capitol and the people in it. and there's a big difference there. and i don't know if this is what people wanted, but this is the will of the people. >> yeah, that couldn't be. >> more the outcome. >> there couldn't be. a starker contrast there between who president biden pardoned, those who defended the capitol and those who investigated the

attacks, versus president trump, who is now pardoned, those who committed these attacks, you know, january 6th was, of course, the culmination of the big lie. the big lie. fueled this violence. and what we got from president trump this week with these blanket pardons sort of closes the book, if you will, on a republican effort for four years to. completely whitewash and downplay what happened that day. >> we're going. >> to keep showing the video. but republicans have been trying to turn the page as. quickly as possible since then, with very few exceptions. we did see. you know, some muted criticism from republicans, some sharper language from others. susan collins, lisa murkowski, senator cassidy, we just saw heard from senator tillis. there were some republicans who made clear this isn't what they would have done. at the very least, they wouldn't have agreed to pardons for those who committed violent offenses. offenses against police officers and others, as we heard from the new majority leader, tried to sort of play. what about with the pardons from president

biden? and, as mika said, those for his family that's that's deserving of a separate conversation, those for the january 6th select committee and the police officers involved. that's very different. and what we don't know now is whether this will fuel any further resistance from republicans. and really, i mean, i think the safe bet is no. yes. this is how it always goes. you'll have certain senators, you know, who because of often electoral concerns and yes, sometimes out of principle will criticize donald trump. but the vast majority will either simply full throated, endorse it or turn a blind eye to it. >> yeah. and we heard them, many of them, including the majority leader later yesterday talking about we're going to get through all of donald trump's nominees. they will all be confirmed. we'll stay here all night. we'll stay here all weekend signaling again that we are with donald trump on whatever he asks us to do. and ali vitali, you cover these men and women every day in congress. majority leader john thune, i thought, was very revealing. a guy who's very well respected, well liked, a decent man who just answered the very

easy question should people who beat up cops be released from prison? he said, would you ask biden the same question about pardons? it feels like donald trump gave these republicans a pretty easy test right out of the gate. are you able to say, by the way, you were the victims of this attack on january 6th? in many ways, you were inside the capitol. are you able to say that people who beat up cops viciously in front of cameras, the whole world watched it happen? should they be released from prison? and by and large, with the exceptions we saw there, most of them kind of are looking the other way because they don't want to cross trump in these early days. >> i think that's exactly right. i mean, the way that senator thune answered that question, i think tells us a lot about where the house, the senate republican conference is writ large, and they are just trying to put january 6th in the rearview, let trump basically tie up the loose ends by commuting and pardoning all of these rioters, and they're just trying to move on to the agenda of taxes and

immigration. i hope i don't think it will be that easy, because you still have 5 to 7 if we're being generous. counting republican senators that rebuked this move, you still got a handful of them who are willing to say that this flies in the face of being the party of law and order and backing the blue. but again, there are so many litmus tests that are being put out in the early days of this administration. january 6th is one of them. the confirmation battles for controversial nominees are another. we saw the way that pete hegseth was able to be pushed out of committee in favorable fashion, because all republicans there voted him out. of course, we'll see whether his confirmation hearing on the full floor changes anything. if there are republicans that are still reluctant or reticent about the job that he could do leading the pentagon, that's certainly something that i'm looking for. but i think it really tells us something about the ways that trump was able to remake congress in his image. and now

he's he's bearing the fruits of that. >> coming up, the wall street journal editorial page calls these mass pardons a, quote, rotten message from the president about political violence done on his behalf. we'll read from that new piece we'll read from that new piece straight ahead on morning the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now, i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill... that reduces the itch... and helps clear the rash of eczema— ...fast. some taking rinvoq felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days. and some achieved dramatic skin clearance... as early as 2 weeks. many saw clear or almost-clear skin. rinvoq can lower ability to fight infections. before treatment, test for tb and do bloodwork. serious infections, blood clots, some fatal... cancers, including lymphoma and skin; serious allergic reactions; gi tears; death; heart attack; and stroke occurred. cv event risk increases in age 50 plus with a heart disease risk factor.

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morning titled trump pardons the january 6th cop beaters. this is the wall street journal editorial board, writing, quote, republicans are busy denouncing president biden's preemptive pardons for his family and political allies, and deservedly so. but then, it's a shame you don't hear many, if any, ruing president trump's proclamation to pardon unconditionally nearly all of the people who rioted at the us capitol on january 6th, 2021. this includes those convicted of bludgeoning, chemical spraying and electroshocking police to try to keep mr. trump in power. now he's springing them from prison. this is a rotten message from a president about political violence done on his behalf, and it's a bait and switch. out of roughly 1600 cases filed by the feds, more than a third included accusations of assaulting, resisting, or impeding law enforcement. of the 1100 sentences handed down this year, more than a third did not involve prison time. the rioters who did get jail often were charged with brutal violence. what happened that day is a

stain on mr. trump's legacy. by setting free the cop beaters, the president adds another. so you have this morning, what, two days into his administration caddy, the wall street journal, calling this a stain on president trump's legacy and so fascinating, as ali said, to watch these republicans, many of them on capitol hill, twist themselves in knots to look the other way. >> yeah. the wall street journal has been very interesting over the last few days, because it's been a real reminder that president trump campaigned to run the country, and now he is running the country. and the problems are his problems. and i've been struck by how many editorials there have been. there's another one in there today. trump gives tiktok and illegal amnesty. the journal is really pushing back, and they've pushed back against several of the things that president trump has done. they've called out the nominee for secretary of defense, pete hegseth, saying, we didn't learn anything in the nomination hearings. we just have to hope that he's the right guy for the job, but not sounding at all convinced that he was. and so you've got that kind of i guess you could put

the journal as the kind of voice of the sort of mitt romney wing of the republican party, to some extent, still out there saying, okay, you won this. now, all of these problems are yours. you have to deal with all of these things on the on. i think one of the most interesting things that was said by those republican senators actually, was senator cramer, who said, look, it was done on day one, and it's behind us now. and you wonder to some extent whether president trump, knowing that this would be kind of controversial with members of the senate, but it was something that the base wanted. you get it done early and then you can move on from it. and i think that's the hope for the white house is that this can now there'll be a lot of outcry about this in these first 48 hours or so, and then they can get on to other things that the republicans actually want to talk about. >> so let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. ken, nbc news spoke to a line prosecutor who worked on the january 6th cases. what was his reaction to these pardons?

>> he was appalled. mika. good morning. his name is jason manning, and he's one of many career prosecutors who devoted years to prosecuting, investigating, finding, investigating, prosecuting these. >> january 6th attackers. >> this was the biggest criminal. investigation in the history of the justice department. nearly every fbi field office and every u.s. attorney's office was involved, even though it took place mostly in the dc, u.s. attorney's office in washington, dc. and this prosecutor really reflected on what this pardon set of pardons meant to the victims that he knows very well. in many cases, the police officers who were assaulted. take a listen. >> everyone is trying to judge these pardons. think how they think about them. needs to put themselves in the shoes of the capitol police officers, the metropolitan police officers who are victims that day. think about what it was like for those people. officers like officer michael fanone, who was dragged into a mob and tased in the neck, or officer like officer dan hodges, who was squeezed

between a door and had to scream for his life. officer brian sicknick, who was assaulted with pepper spray, lost his life with a heart attack. i have to think about what it means for those officers and their loved ones to receive this message that those assaults don't matter, that attacking police officers like that is okay. so for me, that's what i'm thinking about. when those pardons are issued, i don't think that's okay. and so i find the pardons appalling. >> that was a fantastic interview by our colleague ryan riley, who, as you know, wrote a book about january 6th. i spent the day. yesterday talking to everyone from ivy league legal scholars to people inside the justice department, even to lawyers who defended january 6th defendants. i couldn't find anyone, anyone who would defend the pardoning of violent offenders who attacked police except for mike davis, a conservative lawyer who advises donald trump, who said basically they suffered enough. but it's hard to convey guys, what a body blow these pardons are not only to the justice department, but to the american system of justice, because it sort of made

a mockery of the work of fbi agents, prosecutors, but also federal judges. there's a judge from a texan, royce lamberth, a ronald reagan appointee, who in an opinion a year ago just remarked about the misinformation and lies that were surrounding the whole idea of january 6th and the notion that these people didn't do what the video shows them doing. he said he'd never seen anything like it in his 37 years on the bench. and that's what we're facing now, is that donald trump, by issuing these pardons, has essentially turned to dust. years of work by the justice system. >> guys still ahead on morning joe. former dc metropolitan police officer michael fanone, who defended the capitol on january 6th and was attacked with a stun gun that day, joins us next to react to president trump's blanket pardon for trump's blanket pardon for rioters. [monologue]

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>> retired d.c. metropolitan police officer michael fanone, who you'll remember was brutally attacked at the capitol on january 6th, now has had to file protective orders against the people who assaulted him. this comes after president trump pardoned his attackers. it also comes after fanone was told by doj officials there would be no protection for him or his family. they've been targets since he testified before the january 6th committee. an officer fanone joins us now. we should note former president biden provided fanone and the other officers who testified a preemptive pardon in anticipation of retaliation from the trump administration. fanone is the author of the recent book on the insurrection titled hold the line. officer fanone, it's great to have you back on the show. just your first reaction to these blanket pardons of many of the people who attacked you that day. >> i mean, it's outrageous, but, you know, like mika said earlier in the program, it shouldn't

come as a surprise to anyone. donald trump has been promising these pardons ever since he announced his candidacy from waco, texas. you know, for those of you who don't know or remember, that was the scene of a violent confrontation between members of american extremist groups and law enforcement in which law enforcement officers were killed. and donald trump saw that as a fitting place to announce his candidacy. so i fully expected this to happen. and the american people voted for it. >> so you've got these protective orders yesterday, understand? why did you feel compelled to do that? can you talk about some of the threats you felt for you and your family? >> well, first, i, i haven't obtained them yet. i'm going through the process. unfortunately, it doesn't look like it's going to be as easy as i had initially anticipated.

that being said, listen, once these guys were pardoned and let's talk about the individuals that that were pardoned. daniel rodriguez, sentenced to more than 12 years in prison after he pled guilty and admitted to using a taser device, applying it to the base of my skull numerous times while i was being restrained in a crowd. and assaulted albuquerque, cosper head from tennessee, placed me in a headlock. pled guilty. this is the rider that if you watch my body worn camera footage yelled out, i've got one! as he dragged me out into the crowd. thomas sebek, who, while i was restrained and being assaulted, ripped my badge and my radio from my police vest. kyle young, who again while i was being restrained and assaulted, tried to remove my firearm from its

holster as he violently assaulted me. these individuals pled guilty. they admitted that they assaulted a uniformed law enforcement officer who was simply doing his job, and donald trump chose to pardon these violent criminals. they are all out on the street today. because of donald trump's actions, my family is less safe. we have suffered threats and acts of violence. almost immediately after my congressional testimony in the select committee hearing, in fact, i didn't even make it through my testimony before i received the first threatening phone call. my mother has been the victim of swatting incidents. she has had bricks thrown at her home in the middle of the night. and recently, while she was raking the leaves in her front yard. she had an individual pull up in a truck

and throw a bag of on her. this is the type of conduct and behavior that we've experienced for four years. and quite frankly, law enforcement has been feckless in its attempts to protect us and prevent these types of crimes from occurring. >> well, i'm so sorry for the vile threats that you and your family have endured, but just know what the vast majority of the people in this country know, which is that you and your fellow officers were the heroes of january 6th. retired dc metropolitan police officer michael fanone, thank you so much. thank you for your service to the country. still ahead on morning joe, president trump's pick for defense secretary pete hegseth is facing new allegations that could complicate his confirmation. we'll have the latest from capitol hill and get reaction capitol hill and get reaction from his camp when morning j need a shipping solution that'll grow with you? with shipstation, you can manage and fulfill

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>> the full senate could vote on pete hegseth to head the department of defense as early as tomorrow, but a new affidavit received by senators yesterday could pose an 11th hour challenge to his nomination. nbc news has learned exclusively that more than a dozen senators have received a sworn statement from hegseth former sister in law, danielle, in which she says his behavior caused his second wife to fear for her safety. nbc news has received a redacted copy of the document. the affidavit was submitted in response to a letter sent last week from senator jack reed of rhode island, the ranking member of the senate armed services committee. nbc news reports reed asked danielle hegseth to detail what she knew of, quote, instances of abuse or threats of

abuse perpetrated against any other person, end quote. mistreatment of a spouse, former spouse, or other member of his family. among other requests. among the allegations are that samantha hid in a closet once from hegseth, that she developed escape plans for use if she felt she needed to get away from hegseth. that would be activated with a code word, and that she did once put the escape plans into action, danielle noted in the document that she previously detailed these allegations to an fbi agent at the end of last year. the trump transition team did not tell the armed services committee's republican chair or the democratic ranking member about the allegations told to the fbi, according to two sources. in an email exchange with nbc news. samantha hegseth, pete hegseth second wife, said i

do not believe your information to be accurate and i have copied my lawyer. there was no physical abuse in my marriage. this is the only further statement i will make to you. i have to let you know that i am not speaking and will not speak on my marriage to pete, a lawyer for pete hegseth denied all allegations in a statement that reads in part, belated claims by danielle dietrich, an anti-trump far left democrat who is divorced from mr. hegseth brother and never got along with the hegseth family, do nothing to change that. both pete and samantha hegseth signed a court document in 2021 that said neither claimed to be a victim of domestic abuse. the pair divorced in 2018. let's bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie sirkin with more on this. julie, what are you seeing in this? and it seems to me that republicans would be

looking at patterns. i think it gets complicated getting into family dynamics, but perhaps patterns of behavior. and would that then draw back to maybe alcohol abuse or other things? >> well, obviously, mika, those things have been long a concern for republican senators, especially the alcohol abuse. and if you remember that memo that was sent by a friend of the monterrey accuser, the woman who accused pete hegseth of sexual assault in 2017, something he had denied, something charges were not pressed on him against. but all of this kind of raises questions about why none of these things made it into that fbi report. and i will tell you, just with those statements from samantha hegseth, those happened in two different instances. we were reporting this story for several weeks. we've known about the allegations specifically from danielle hegseth, and that she had communicated them to the committee for several days. we reached out to samantha hegseth for comment initially on those we haven't heard back until we reached out to an attorney for

hegseth. and then that's when samantha hegseth told us she does not believe the allegations, that we had to be accurate when we went back to her and specifically pressed her on which allegations in this affidavit that have now been signed by your former sister in law, do you find it accurate? and she simply said there was no physical abuse in her marriage. but many of the things that danielle is alleging, hiding in a closet, using a safe word, these are things that danielle knows about. because samantha had confided in her, she confided with her friends, with her family members, and this behavior, danielle says, would get worse. when hegseth was abusing alcohol. obviously, samantha and pete hegseth both signed that document saying there was no domestic abuse. but i got to tell you, mika, i mean, in reporting this story, we've heard how difficult it was for senators on both sides of the aisle. by the way, i'm talking to republicans, too, to actually interview witnesses firsthand because of any confidentiality agreements that hegseth may have

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>> they're still asking what. >> the hell happened? stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the msnbc daily newsletter. get the best of msnbc all in one place. sign up for msnbc daily at msnbc. com. >> we're just days into the second term of president. donald trump. and democrats are desperately looking for a path forward as. >> republicans now. control both chambers of congress in the house. our next guests may. >> have the answer. with us now, the co-founders. >> of crooked. >> media and the host of pod. >> save america, tommy. >> vietor, jon favreau.

>> and jon lovett. >> thank god you guys have the answer. i wanted to ask you some questions about. >> diet. >> about exercise. >> how do i. >> so i got i got. >> a couple of. >> things i. >> want to ask you guys about. >> to kick. >> it off. but first, it's great. it's awesome. it really is that you all served in. >> the. >> obama administration. because, you. >> know, when people are saying all is. >> lost, it's all over. you know, reminds me, when we got. elected in 94 republicans, u.s. news had. >> like, is. >> it the end of the democratic party? and i put it on, you know, my. >> my coffee table. >> in my office. >> threw that one away pretty quickly. >> after barack obama won. >> and i wrote this down. >> won by. >> seven. >> and. >> a half. >> points. >> 365 electoral votes. the house. >> democrats didn't have a one vote majority. they had a. 78 vote majority. >> the senate. >> not a three vote majority. democrats had. >> an 18. >> vote majority. so you.

>> guys have to be laughing every day because, you know, power is. >> like vapor. it disappears pretty damn quickly. >> you guys have to be laughing. >> when you hear democrats going. >> it is. >> the end. >> republicans have a one vote like advantage in the house. i mean, can you guys talk democrats through that. >> and explain. how this does happen? >> elections happen and. it's not the. >> end of the democratic party. >> yeah. >> i. >> mean. >> it actually reminds. >> me of. >> 2005, right. >> after george. >> w. >> bush won the second. >> term. >> and people thought all was lost. >> for. >> the. democratic party. tommy and i were. then sitting. >> in then-senator. >> barack obama's senate office, newly elected senator, and. >> i think no. >> one imagined at the time that four years later, he'd become president, united states. >> so things. >> happen fast. and, you know, you know what happened. >> after that. >> in 2005, george w bush tried. >> to. >> privatize social security. >> that was hugely unpopular.

then the iraq war, katrina. >> and financial crisis. so, you know, no. >> one can predict anything. but i think the reason that barack obama did well, the democrats did well back then is, you know, they they spoke out and they weren't afraid. and i feel like democrats are still getting their sea legs in this this first week. you get a lot of different messages coming. >> out of the party. >> yeah. and you know, i'm not sure why everyone didn't focus on isn't focusing on the pardons. you know, he pardoned a bunch of people. >> who beat up police officers. >> and i. >> don't know why. >> every single democrat isn't together putting out, you know, forget about putting out statements, go out to the mics, go out to the cameras and start yelling about it. >> i just disagree with that. i just think there's a much more important question, which is, is elon musk autistic or is he a nazi? and i think that's. the question. >> we really need. >> to be focused. >> on the signal that he made. >> yeah. with the signal that he made. >> yeah. we should dissect that for a couple more weeks. >> okay. but should they be. >> shouting at. >> least i wonder. joe. >> yeah. no. at least a couple more weeks.

>> no. >> and that brings. up a great point. i mean. >> it's, it's we always talk about the. >> signal and the noise on this show. >> ignore the ground noise. >> focus on the signal. >> and you are so right. those pardons thus far, that's. >> the signal. >> but i want to. >> john, i want. >> to let's let's talk about the message, because. >> i know you guys are sick and tired of people saying this is why kamala lost. >> this is what she should. >> have said. this is what. democrats need to say. >> and they're. >> overwhelmed by the disinformation. >> mike and i were. we're honored to be able to be at jimmy. >> carter's funeral and one of. >> the most moving. >> things of all the moving things said. >> about this. extraordinary man's life. >> ted mondale. read walter mondale eulogy. >> and john, they at the end of their term, they look back. they said. >> what did we accomplish? let's write a document. on what we accomplished. and at the. >> end. >> they didn't talk about camp david. they didn't talk about keeping the soviets out of poland. they didn't. >> talk about human rights.

>> they wrote this down. >> they said, we. >> told the truth. >> we respected. >> the law. >> we kept the peace. sometimes against. >> a flurry of disinformation. the simple. truth isn't. >> that, like. >> the most. >> powerful way to go? >> jon favreau. >> oh, me. >> oh. >> buddy. >> couple. john's okay. >> jimmy john's. >> in any. >> any john. tommy. >> john. >> tommy. >> john surgery. >> whoever wants to go. >> i think you're right. like democrats. >> need to get. >> back to first principles. >> what do we believe in? what are. >> our core values? i think that's. >> being for working people. it's being anti-war. i think we need to talk more. about money in. >> politics and. >> the way that's distorting our democracy. i think that's that's. >> one. >> way we could ground this message about democracy that can. >> feel a. >> little esoteric. >> and divorced from the day to day challenges people feel as we talk about, hey, look on the dais, the trump inauguration. do you know how many billions of dollars are seated there? do you know what miriam. adelson is

there because she's a big donor who bought her way onto the stage, and now. >> she is going to dictate foreign policy in the west bank. in. relations between israel and the palestinians. >> so what. >> are the challenges that you guys have? yeah, shows like ours have is trying to break through the noise and not just the distraction of the day, but also the misinformation and disinformation, the fact that it's so hard to get clear information to people who need to make decisions. what's the recipe there? how do you try that? >> yeah. >> what's the answer to misinformation is a big question. i do think one aspect of it, though, is i think a lot of democrats especially engage hyper engaged democrats. it feels like for years we've watched donald trump say to millions of people, you're not wrong to care about this, whatever that issue may be, the border die, whatever issue he's using to inflame people. but he's he's feeding on people's anxieties, their fears, their bigotries, whatever it may be. and he's saying, you're not wrong to care about that. and democrats have spent years saying you're wrong not to care about this. you're wrong not to be bothered by these assaults on our democracy, these you're

wrong not to care about this stuff. and i think if at a time when there is so much noise, we have to go to people and talk about what they already care about or what what we can't beg people to care about the things that a small group of democrats already cared about to begin with. >> so my question to you all. is this narrative of anger against joe biden about how he went out, about the decisions he made on whether to run again? you know, good debates, but is it really what we need to be doing right now, what democrats need to be doing, pounding on the mistakes of the past? or should we be focused on pressing reset and figuring out how to move forward in the future? >> i mean, i. >> think i. >> think we need just to. >> be honest about. >> the. >> mistakes we. >> made and then figure out how to rebuild. >> i think we. >> all spent. >> a lot of. >> time. >> the democratic party. >> that is. >> trying to tell.

>> voters that. >> their eyes weren't seeing what they saw, which. >> was. >> a man who was too old. >> to run. >> for reelection. and i think that was a mistake. >> and i'm. >> not here to. >> to pound. >> on joe biden or yell about the pardons at. >> the end of the day. >> but i understand why people are mad at him. i'm personally frustrated about. >> the situation. >> we're in. >> and he's someone. >> who i. >> think deserves. >> a considerable part of. >> the blame for. getting us here. but i think our job as a party is to rebuild and figure out what we are for, and. >> find that next generation. >> of leaders. >> and that's. >> incumbent on them. >> they need. >> to go give speeches, do interesting interviews, put up big ideas, show leadership, excite us, inspire people. politics doesn't have to feel like this. in 2008, it didn't feel like this. people were hopeful. they were talking about hope and change. and it might have been cliche at times, but at least it felt good and was inspiring and was being for something. >> yeah, i'm curious about breaking through. sorry, john, to voters who voted for trump. a friend of mine has a member of her family with special needs, and she's building something to

try and contractor is saying, i can't, i can't give you a number anymore because i don't know about these tariffs. it could be 20, 30, 40% more. and she's like, you voted for him. and he goes, yeah, i did, i did. i just didn't think he'd do it you know. >> yeah i. >> mean help, help me know because you think voters, all of the people who voted for donald trump, love these pardons that are happening right now, people who crushed cops skulls. >> know we know that they're only supported. i mean, even when it wasn't, the question wasn't phrased as violently assaulting cops, just pardons in general for january 6th. yeah. people have been convicted. it was like 30% support. so there's a lot of republicans that don't support it either. look, i think a lot of the people who voted for trump, who didn't really like trump that much, did so because prices were high and or they were upset about the border. and i think what we have to do over the next couple of years is make sure that we are

focused on how donald trump's policies are affecting people. yeah, and it's not so much about what he says that offends people. it's what he says, that what he does that affects people. and i think we need to keep that in mind, because we spent a lot of time talking. >> about getting triggered. >> a lot of time getting triggered, a lot of time having debate over words and what someone saying, what's the saying? watch what the policies are. he made a whole bunch of promises to people about how he was going to make cost of living better for them, and now he's pardoning criminals who beat up cops, and he's doing all kinds of other stuff. so we got to watch to see if he keeps his central promise, which is why he he got this. he won a majority in the electoral college because he said he'd bring bring costs down. it doesn't seem like he's doing that now. it seems like he's doing whatever the hell. >> we do. so many more questions for you guys. you're next. but we're going to take a quick break first and hold you over if that's okay. right. all right. pod save america. still ahead. we'll have the latest from washington on president trump's sweeping executive orders on his pardons of january 6th rioters. plus the president's big announcement yesterday was an

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elevated design for thoughtful living. thoma. >> hey, welcome. back to. >> morning joe. very cold. >> morning in new. >> york city. it is 6. >> a.m. on. >> the west. >> coast. >> 9 a.m. in the east. >> and 8. >> a.m. in pensacola, florida. >> oh, my. >> where there. >> is five inches of. >> five inches of. snow in. >> a in a town. >> where. >> it just doesn't snow. >> i think i remember. >> one time back. >> in 1993. >> we had snow flurries for. >> about 15 minutes. >> wow. >> we all ran outside and. >> yeah. >> then walked back in. >> beaches are. >> so good. our conversation. >> was the beach. >> well, yeah. >> no. >> they are actually that white. but the. >> white today. >> that that is snow. we

continue our conversation with the host of pod save. >> america. >> tommy vietor, jon favreau. >> and jon lovett. >> guys, thank you so much for being with us. there's so much we want to talk about. first, i want to, i want to i want to talk because. >> tommy. >> i know that what's. >> been happening in gaza. >> and what's. >> been happening. >> on the west bank matters so much to you and. >> hasn't. >> been covered enough in the media. >> i wanted to get your reaction. >> to and. >> by the. >> way, i say this as a guy. >> you know. >> in congress, i. >> mean, mr. >> israel, mr. aipac, i mean, i was as pro-israel as you could be, pro-israel. i think this is a radically. different israel right now, the most right. >> wing government ever. i want to ask you how disturbed. >> you are by the fact that we. >> now have. >> an ambassador. >> going to the united nations and. >> an ambassador. going to israel, a u.s. ambassador. saying that it's biblical that the west. >> bank belongs to.

>> the israelis, and the palestinians. >> are just going to have. >> to deal with it. >> yeah. >> i mean. >> if that's. >> the policy of. >> this administration. >> it means the death of a two. >> state solution. >> and it's. >> it's weird, joe, because this is coming at a time when i think donald trump and steve. >> witkoff. >> his emissary. >> to the middle east, deserve a lot. >> of. >> credit for helping get this gaza ceasefire deal done. but the truth is, the only part of that ceasefire deal that's really fully negotiated is this first phase, this six week phase that will see the release of 33 hostages. there are a bunch more hostages that will are supposed to be released in phase two. and then you have gaza reconstruction. so this thing is far from done. and then long term, you need. a palestinian. state to finally see, you know, peace, or at least. >> to allow. >> the palestinians to have some sort of self-determination. so it seems like what we are likely to get policy wise from. this administration is another series of gifts to bibi netanyahu that could include annexation of the west bank, which would lead to some bad things. >> well, again.

>> we've learned time and time. >> again. >> you can't ignore the palestinians. you can't make peace in the middle east and. >> go, you know what? we're just. >> going to we're just going to put them over there. i mean, that's been tried before and it fails every. >> time. doesn't it? yeah, it does. >> and i think that's. >> part of the challenge. >> with the abraham accord agreements that the trump administration focused on in the first term that saw these normalization deals between israel and. >> its arab. >> neighbors. >> that may. >> happen again. but if the palestinian cause is an afterthought, i think that empowers extremists and hamas and hezbollah and other bad actors in the region. >> yeah. >> you know. >> i was. >> listening to john. >> you all decide. >> among yourself. >> which one? john, i was listening to your podcast a month or two. >> ago, and. >> i actually, i loved it. i was dying laughing. >> because you were you were describing the difference between the democratic party culturally and the republican party as well. by the way, just like the republican party is

like, yeah, let's go to madison square garden. >> yeah. >> let's go. let's go to, you know, you know, boxing. let's do something. and it's so interesting because. >> when other than. >> of course, barack obama, when, you know, we republicans. >> would look at democrats would be. >> like, god, they're just joyless. and it's like, it shouldn't be this easy. they are such downers. and i listened to your podcast. >> i just started dying laughing. >> you guys nailed it. it's a cultural. >> thing, isn't it? >> yeah. you. if we want to be a party that can win elections, we have to be a party. people would want to attend. and you see a trump rally and people are having a good time at that event. and trump is mixing it up. and he talked about how do we take on misinformation. how about somebody that can that a democrat that's doing two hour press conferences that's going everywhere that can that can mix it up with everyone that can go on joe rogan that seems like a good hang, and. >> he doesn't talk like a press release. and doesn't everyone

already everyone's putting their statements out on social media. write your own posts, do some press conferences, sit and talk to people. go on podcasts. don't talk like you're just like reading your pollster's memo. it's crazy. >> and like, hey, look, i know everybody liked the west wing and everybody thinks of speeches as like, you know, abraham lincoln's second inaugural. everybody writes their statements like they're crossing the delaware. they write them like they're doing their own drafts of the federalist papers. it's enough. it's not working. nobody's listening. nobody cares what we have to say about anything, donald. we have lost so much credibility with people, and we haven't gotten the ability to break through to people. and so, like, yes, we are, we are frustrated and upset. but some of this, we have to i think when you said, you know, should we look backwards? no, of course not. but i think we need to own the ways in which we are responsible for not being able to successfully communicate the threat donald trump poses. so connected to this with congressman richard torres on earlier, he talked about voters that democrats have taken for granted and then lost. he's focused he was focusing on black and brown voters, but we could certainly talk about, at times, white working class young voters. so how how do democrats

now sort of reach those groups and say, actually, we do hear you. we do. we do think we care about what you think. >> and i think there was a theory of the case. >> in the democratic. >> party that we have a base and, you know, that voters of color or lower income voters, and they're going to turn out for us. and all we have to do is do gotv effort for them. and then we've lost the art of persuasion. i think we. >> need to start. >> convincing people that we are right, and that we are going to be better for people. i think that's something barack obama did, but we've just sort of lost it. assuming people are going to vote for us based on their identity is a loser, and it has always been a loser, and it shouldn't be an assumption anymore. you have to make a case to people, and people without a college degree are now voting together more than whether they are black, latino, white. and so we're starting to see that more. so democrats have to speak to that. and part of it is speaking that language, right, which is just normal people language. how do you talk to people at a bar, at a restaurant in your own life like that? that's the way that people need to talk right now. and democrats don't haven't done that, which is why working class

people feel so alienated. or one reason at least. >> and by the way, it's not about doing some kind of impression of gen z. it's not about like saying brat or whatever the hell people were. >> trying to say. >> the two politicians that appeal the most, aoc and bernie, like bernie, is not going out there doing the latest trends. he's not doing anything on tiktok to try to appeal to young people. he's just being his authentic self. >> right. okay, so let's do that. let's put you to the test, because it is much easier said than done. i know joe can do it. he can fact check, check trump live. and there's a lot of struggle in the media to keep up with the fact checking, being flexible, being nimble, being able to speak that language to use all your words. so have at it. donald trump just pardoned all the january 6th, quote, hostages. he calls them rioters. people convicted of seditious conspiracy and respond to it. you're a democrat. you're hakeem jeffries, you're chuck schumer. what should you be doing? what should you be saying right now? here's a microphone in your face. do it.

>> we don't support people that beat up cops. and if you believe in law and order, then you don't believe these people should be walking on the streets. if this was your son or daughter who had been attacked at the capitol, how upset would you be if you heard that the president of the united states declared someone who beat your police officer son up, was a hero, was a patriot that deserved to be on the streets. what message does that send to our kids? what message does that send to this country? this is not what he was elected to do. this is not what we want him to be doing. and by the way, i think a lot of people are saying this, right. i don't think that this is a unique or grand original thought. >> what is it? and that's going to be what you guys talk about. what is it that breaks through all of this? you know what that is happening where and to that voter that i told you guys about who likes trump but doesn't is going to probably not benefit at all from his policies. >> i think the hardest part of. >> getting to. >> that voter is not what we say, but reaching that that voter. i think part of it is volume. if you look at donald trump's inaugural day, he did three inauguration speeches, the real one, the overflow, the

rally at night, and then a press conference. right. he is. >> a reality show. >> and when you are playing a volume game, you need rep after rep after rep to make sure it gets clipped on tiktok and it gets shared on x and the algorithms are killing us right now. elon musk is skewing everything towards the republican party, so we need to try even harder. >> joe. >> yeah, you know, jon favreau, tommy just made such. >> a great point. >> you know, there's old saying. >> that, like what 90, 99%. of life is just showing up. >> donald trump always shows up like, you look at. >> somebody did an analysis of how many interviews. >> how many words were. >> spoken. >> how. >> many. how many. questions were answered. >> during the 2024 campaign? >> it wasn't. >> even close. i remember. back in. >> 2015. >> we said every republican, every democrat that wanted. >> to come on the show. on the campaign trail, pick up the phone. >> call us. >> we'd have them. >> come on. >> donald trump was calling every day. the only person that would take. >> that well was lindsey graham.

he called. >> once. >> or twice and we did. >> it again, like in 2020. and. >> you know, we. had had. >> congressman ryan call up. and that. >> was it. >> i mean, talk. about the importance of being there. >> of course. >> we're talking about. joe rogan now. >> but joe rogan. fox news ben. >> shapiro not being afraid to go. >> where the voters are. >> yeah. >> you have to be everywhere all the time, all the different mediums and like, look, i think there was an there's an expectation, especially after trump won the first time because he was on twitter for four years, that we'd be hearing from our president all the time. a lot, a lot of us didn't like hearing from him, but we did. and i think overcommunicating in this media environment is the most important thing leaders can do. i mean, we're all living in los angeles. we just are dealing with these horrific fires. and mayor bass was was out of the city. and, you know, she was making the case that, look, i was making all the decisions i needed to make and maybe that's

true, but in a time like that, what you need is a leader who's there, who's communicating, especially in this media environment. right. because there's so much misinformation, there's so much bad information out there. it's so hard to figure out what to do. and i think what people expect and what people deserve is a leader who's constantly talking to them and being unafraid to make mistakes, to make gaffes, because that's what's going to happen. and they're going to go. >> back and then keep coming back and then keep. what do you think donald trump did? >> well, and i also think democrats think like, oh, we got to go on joe rogan. and then they think what's going to happen is they're going to go on joe rogan. and then joe rogan is going to say something about trans issues, and they're going to say trans issues. that's just a distraction from high prices. and have you heard about what we did with medicare? and joe rogan is going to be like, what? because like they talk like a message document and they talk like their pollster told them to talk. and instead you actually just have to have a conversation, like you're having a conversation in real life. and right now there's like a handful of democrats who can do that. >> right? okay. we need to continue this conversation, as you guys do all the time. co-hosts of pod save america, tommy vietor, jon favreau, and

jon lovett, thank you all very much. and you can listen to new episodes of pod save america every tuesday and friday, and also watch on youtube. they're entertaining too. all right, 12 past the hour. we're going to get to our top story now. president trump continues to face backlash over his decision to pardon roughly 1500. january 6th rioters. nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake has the latest. >> this morning. >> the fallout. >> from president. >> trump's first. >> actions in office, including new pardons hitting washington as overnight, the. president issued another executive order placing all federal employees in diversity, equity and inclusion roles on paid leave and promising to close all dei related programs. but for much of trump's first day in office, focused on his controversial decision to pardon or commute the sentence of every person convicted of a crime related to the january 6th attack on the capitol. >> i the move, encompassing

those. >> convicted of. >> violent crimes, including electroshocking police officers dragging them through the capitol and assaulting them with chemical spray, metal barriers and their own equipment. overnight, two top police organizations, including the powerful fraternal order of police, which endorsed trump, condemning the pardons and commutations, writing, quote, it devalues the sacrifices made by courageous law enforcement and sends a dangerous message. the president, asked by nbc's peter alexander about one defendant, jay rodriguez, who pleaded. >> guilty for. >> assaulting dc police officer michael fanone with a stun gun and was sentenced to 12 years in prison. >> why does he. >> deserve a pardon? well, i don't know. was it a pardon? because we're looking at commutes and we're looking at pardons. okay, well, we'll take a look at everything. >> on morning. >> joe today. fanone running through. >> a list of. >> those who pled guilty to attacking him as he seeks protective orders. >> daniel rodriguez, sentenced to more than 12 years in prison after he pled guilty and admitted to using a taser

device. applying it to the base of my skull. >> as republicans on capitol hill were questioned about the. >> move. >> the president's. >> sole decision. >> some expressing hesitation on the inclusion of violent offenders. >> to me, i just can't agree. it was surprising to me that it was a. blanket pardon. >> the bureau. >> of. >> prisons releasing 211 individuals in approximately 12 hours. among those pardoned, former oath keepers leader stewart rhodes. >> i think it's a good day for america. >> and former proud boys head enrique tarrio. both were serving lengthy sentences for seditious conspiracy. >> and that was nbc's garrett hake with that report. meanwhile, as that's going on, there's also this morning, new fallout over president biden's pardons of five family members that he issued in the last minutes while he was in office. biden, under the guise of protecting them from unfair political and legal persecution, preemptively pardoned his brothers james and frank biden, his sister valerie biden owens and john owens and sarah biden, the spouses of valerie and

james. bill daley, a longtime biden friend who is white house chief of staff under president obama, said it was disgusting. he said it confirms that there are serious concerns about culpability. daley said the bidens will never wipe this quote stain from the former president's legacy. meanwhile, npr reports that before biden commuted the life sentence of indigenous activist leonard peltier on monday, he received a warning from outgoing fbi director christopher wray that peltier was convicted of killing two fbi agents back in the 1970s. but wray told the white house that commuting his sentence would be, quote, shattering to the victims loved ones and undermine the principles of justice and accountability that our government should represent. wray sent a letter to the white house on january 10th. in it, the fbi director expressed vehement and steadfast opposition to the commutation of leonard peltier sentence. so, joe, you know, certainly these

are two different buckets here. we're talking about 15, 1600 pardons about january 6th, and they've been denounced by democrats and even a few republicans. but you know what president biden did in the last hours of his term, also receiving some scrutiny and criticism. >> yeah, i mean, criticism. obviously from republicans. >> who. >> would be criticizing him regardless. and democrats and as you've reported. >> on. >> quietly complaining about it. behind closed doors. what's so. interesting is joe biden felt. >> the need to pardon. >> actually a cop that was brutally beaten. >> by a mob and almost killed. >> and at cops who were plural. and while you have. donald trump pardoning the people who beat the hell out of those cops. >> and almost. >> killed, killed, killed them. let's bring in right now the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's. >> politics nation, the reverend al. >> sharpton, the co-founder and

ceo of all in together. and leader and the congressional correspondent for the new york. >> times, annie karni. >> she's a co author. >> of the upcoming book madhouse how donald. trump maga mean. >> girls, former used car salesman. >> of florida. >> nepo baby and a man with rats. >> in his walls. >> broke into congress. thanks so much, everybody. >> for being with us. >> annie, let's. >> first. >> talk about the dueling pardons. obviously, i think most americans don't like. >> either of them. >> you look. >> at the poll. >> numbers, though, out and at least the early snapshot polls. certainly, most americans are deeply troubled by donald trump's commuting of the sentence and the pardons of very violent offenders who beat the hell out of police officers. >> yeah. >> i mean, it's. >> the it's. >> a. >> shame that. >> this happened. >> on the same day so that there is even a comparison and that people can just say they're both bad because they are different

kinds of pardons. but the truth is that the pardon power is a is a problematic thing that the founders put in the constitution. and we're seeing that now. what struck me yesterday was how much republicans who in the past have expressed. >> concern about. >> pardoning violent criminals who stormed the building that they work in that day, weren't willing to say much. johnson, who's allegedly the head of a co-equal branch of government, when asked, said, you know, it's not it's not for me to say the president made his decision and therefore i stand by him. they're just going to fall in line on this, on this issue. when in the past they've you know, even jd vance, trump's own vice president, said obviously the violent criminals should not be pardoned. well, obviously was i guess he's retracted, obviously. but overall, it's

just it's a it's i've heard a lot of people saying this week like it's just a bad presidential power. it's bad. it's bad all around. yeah. >> yeah. >> and following up. >> on what annie said. >> john. >> there are. members on capitol hill in both parties. and again, no, nobody's preaching moral equivalency. we're just reporting here that there are republicans and democrats alike who are saying this pardon power has. >> just gotten. >> out of control. obviously, it's in the constitution. but there there is there is a real, real concern that it's been abused and the doors have now been. >> opened wide. for extraordinary abuse. >> yeah. i mean, the power is expansive to begin with, and we've seen it used in unprecedented ways this week alone. so, reverend sharpton, let's talk about the january 6th pardons. you have washington and the nation still digesting what

donald trump did. he did, reporting the debates. initially they were thought to be a little more limited. and then trump himself said, no, let's go big. let's just let release all of them. and then we've heard in the last 24 hours, enrique tarrio, the head of the proud boys, already say, first of all, expressing his gratitude to president trump, but saying now it's time for revenge and calling on trump's doj to go after those who did these january 6th investigations. >> i think that that is what distinguishes between. >> the two buckets. >> of pardons. you can disagree with. >> both. >> but they are very different in the sense that the pardoning of these that physically beat police and physically beat law enforcement and went in the capitol and they are now still active. it emboldens them and emboldens others. you cannot compare that to people being pardoned for something decades ago, even though you may disagree with it. the fact of the matter is what i said to

someone just yesterday is that when george floyd was killed, they burned down stores in minneapolis. the family of george floyd asked me to come in and do the eulogy, lead nonviolent marches to calm things down. and they denounced the violence. suppose if joe biden had a pardon, those young people that, out of rage burned down minneapolis, would the people that are supporting the january 6th pardons say, oh, well, they were angry. they had a right to protest. so we're talking about people. that literally did the same thing, but did it in the capitol, threatening the vice president and threatening the speaker of the house. and that's all right. but the rest of these people that protesting gets violent, which i denounce that violence right there. they're hoodlums. they're thugs. now, you're telling these right wing protesters that you're covered, in fact, you're heroes. you were pardoned, and they will be

emboldened to do this even more, which is of concern to those of us that are still in the public space. >> well, you know what's interesting. >> mika, is that reverend al sharpton just said. >> something that. >> reminded me of what lindsey graham said. >> back in 2022, when reverend. >> al said that these pardons will encourage more violence. lindsey graham january 30th, 2022, says that. >> trump's pardon. >> idea for january 6th rioters will make, quote, violence more likely. >> saying the same exact thing. >> a few years ago. that reverend. >> al is saying now and democrats are saying now. and my. >> gosh, you can go down the long list. and we certainly did everybody. >> from lindsey. >> graham to ted. >> cruz to most republicans saying that. >> that these people. >> that. >> especially those that beat the hell out of cops, you know, they. >> needed to stay in jail. >> well, and for any republican republicans who want to hear this, because they are of the line right now, just to be more

specific, violence in his name, to be very clear here. that's the signal. pete hegseth, president trump's choice for secretary of defense, has been accused of regularly abusing alcohol to the point that he passed out at family gatherings. that's according to an affidavit from former sister in law of hegseth obtained by nbc news and has been reviewed by us senators. now, in the sworn statement provided in response to a request from senator jack reed of rhode island, peg seth's former sister in law, danielle hegseth, states that she was with hegseth when he passed out from drunkenness in the bathroom of a bar in minneapolis in about 2013. it also describes another night when she said hegseth drank so much at a restaurant in minneapolis that the uber driver had to pull over on interstate

94 so that he could throw up. in addition, danielle hegseth said she personally observed erratic and aggressive behavior by hegseth, witnessing him abusing alcohol multiple times over the years. one christmas in 2008 or 2009, he drank so much that he threw up and passed out, she said. a lawyer for pete hegseth denied all allegations in a statement that reads, in part, belated claims by danielle dietrich and anti-trump far left democrat who is divorced from mr. hegseth brother and never got along with hegseth family, do nothing to change that. and lauren, what the committee and republicans, i guess have to look at here is what pattern might be emerging. there was also a letter from his mother that she now denies, and she doesn't deny writing the letter, but she pulls back on the comments she made and then other

instances, former and present fox news employees and people who spent time with him working out in the field have similar descriptions that might point to a pattern of alcohol abuse. >> i mean, there's. so much here. >> in terms of the. >> just layers of problematic. >> issues with. >> this nominee. >> setting aside. >> the fact. >> that he's just grossly. >> underqualified and in no way in the ballpark of. >> you know. >> experienced enough to run a department this. >> big. >> the number of. questions about his character, about his abuse of alcohol. >> about his. >> potential abuse of women, his statements about women in the military. i mean, the list is just so long, and i keep thinking about some of the women in the senate, like. joni ernst. who spent. >> you know. >> a decade. >> trying to root out. >> abusive. >> you know. >> and. >> sexual assault in the military. >> like how. >> they can overlook this and go ahead and potentially vote. >> for him. >> it is just unimaginable. and, you know, i was thinking about

with the pod save guys were saying about democrats pushing back, there was such an. >> opportunity here. >> you know. >> they just they. just confirmed marco rubio. there wasn't any drama around it. there were no like. >> personal attacks. >> on him. there will be other nominees that trump nominates who will sail through the process. i think elise stefanik is going to be another one. the idea that somehow this is just a. democratic smear campaign. democrats have to push back around this. this is a guy who is a profound danger to national security. and, you know, i just i would. >> like to. >> see us, you know, instead of going after some of the personal. yes, he had affairs. americans don't care about this. but the fact is, the guy is a danger. and he couldn't pass an fbi background check for a job half his senior. this is this is one that i hope democrats will really try to die on the hill on. >> i think democrat or republican. jonathan lemire, you you know, they have all the information in front of them. and i think this is a decision that has to be made that some might say is a decision between whether you support or get this

guy some support, the support he needs, or give him a really stressful job. you know, that that it seems to me that there's a pattern here worth looking at. >> yeah. and when the first wave of these stories came out a month or so back, there was real doubt about the future of his nomination. so, annie karni, let's go to you for an update as to where things stand now, covering congress there. you know, he's his nomination for dod head has cleared committee. the full vote coming. is there any sense at all that these these new reports, these allegations that have come out in the last day or so will change any votes? >> no. >> i don't. >> think so. i mean, the republicans have been dismissing this, saying this is another. kavanaugh situation where they couldn't get him on the first one, they being democrats and people who are opposed to him. and they keep trickling out new allegations. so, yeah, to the point that democrats need to make it clear that that's not what's going on here. but look, we saw what happened. joni ernst got incredible pushback from the

base, threats of a primary challenge, threats that she would lose her seat. donald trump himself has put skin in the game on this nominee, which is unusual for him. usually, like with matt gaetz, he put the name out. it wasn't going to work. it withdrew no skin off his back. he has put himself behind pete hegseth. he wants this. the whole movement is pushing for hegseth. they it would be a huge embarrassment at this point if he lost, given how much support they've given him. and i haven't heard any republicans. he can afford to lose four republican votes. you know, we're looking at collins, murkowski. we don't know what mitch mcconnell is going to do now that he's out of leadership. but i, i don't get the sense that this is going to collapse anymore. those those concerns have sort of passed. we'll see. >> we will see what happens. new york times congressional correspondent annie karni, thank you very much for coming on. we look forward to having you back in march for the publication of

your new book, madhouse, an excerpt of which is available now to read online at the new york times. and coming up on morning joe, attorneys general from 22 states have filed lawsuits seeking to block president trump's attempt to revoke automatic birthright citizenship. our next guest is leading that charge. plus, president trump announces a $500 billion investment into the artificial intelligence sector. but one of his closest allies claims the tech firms involved actually have the money. we'll explain straight ahead. you're watching morning, joe. >> see it. feel it. understand? >> tired of sciatic nerve pain radiating down your leg and lower back? get relief. finally, with magnilife leg and back pain relief, a combination of four active ingredients that get to active ingredients that get to woman: we've waited so long for this spa day. oh yeah? shingles doesn't care. shingles is a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks.

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20 democratic attorneys general filed lawsuits yesterday seeking to block trump's executive order surrounding birthright citizenship. the order itself attempts to limit automatic citizenship to those with at least one parent who is a u.s. citizen or permanent resident. trump's proposal would not go into effect for another month, leaving it open to court challenges. civil rights groups have also filed their own joint lawsuit. joining us now, the attorney general heading up the lawsuit filed in federal district court in massachusetts over trump's attempt to end birthright citizenship. new jersey attorney general matthew platkin. okay, so here we go. we take it case by case and don't get overwhelmed. but this is a big one. and do you foresee problems here? this seems like one of the most impossible things that donald trump has put out there in terms of his plans. >> well, it is, mika. >> it's such a flagrant violation of our constitution

and of. >> the norms of. >> this nation. >> birthright. yet i would never say never pertaining to donald trump. so i'm just not saying it's completely impossible. i guess you can't. >> look. >> birthright citizenship has been. part of the fabric of this nation for centuries. it's been in the constitution for 157 years. even. i think. president trump knows that. >> this exceeds. >> his authority. and we're going to have the. court say that. and i am confident that this order will never come into effect. >> reverend attorney general platkin, you and i have worked on some civil rights cases in new jersey. talk about the overtones that this gives to a lot of people that are concerned, because the 14th amendment really came as a result of the dred. >> scott decision. >> where they were saying that the slaves could not be citizens even though they were born here because they're black. so this really goes to the heart of bigotry and. bias that we're dealing with, because i don't know if they if the people we were talking about were not

mexican or brown, whether trump would be as vehement as he is, talk about the civil rights overtones here. >> that's exactly right. i mean, the only period in american history where birthright citizenship was not accepted was the civil war. in the wake of the dred scott decision. so in the wake of the civil war, this country came together and said, we don't want to leave citizenship up to the whims of a president, that if you're born on american soil, this has been the rule now in the constitution for 157 years. and i live in new jersey. i live in the shadow of the statue of liberty, the state of ellis island, where millions of people have come through and built their lives in our state. we are a state of immigrants. we are a nation of immigrants. and just comparing it to the conversation you just had, you say people who killed a cop, a new jersey resident are american patriots, but people born here are deprived the rights and privileges of american citizenship that date back to whether descendants of slaves would be accepted as americans in the wake of the civil war. i

mean, this is a legal problem. we're going to win in the courts, but we got to make sure people understand how extreme this is when we talk about the rule of law. this isn't an abstract concept. it's whether or not a president can write out a 157 year old provision in the constitution with a stroke of a pen. i would argue we can't. >> such an important point. i think a lot of americans have no idea the history that we've just shared, and it's so important. i wanted to ask you also about other potential civil rights challenges. reverend, i were talking off air about the efforts to roll back dei, and i have real questions about whether or not there's legal authority to do that or to, you know, en masse fire people who are doing, you know, who are really actually working to protect the civil rights of diverse americans. i know you're thinking a lot going forward about his agenda. are there other, other issues like that that you expect you'll be defending? >> look, i've said since november the 5th, i swore an oath as the chief law enforcement officer and the attorney for 9.5 million people, that we will uphold the constitution of this country and our state. that's what i and my

colleagues said we would do. by the way, the president swore an oath saying the same thing. so we're going to look at every issue as to whether or not what he is doing violates the law, violates the constitution, and if the answer is yes and it hurts our residents, we're not going to be afraid of a fight to step up. it's not about whether i agree with him. it's not about politics. it's about whether the rule of law, it has to mean something in this country. and when we talk about that, that's what we're talking about. >> new jersey attorney general matthew platkin, thank you very much for coming on the show today. we appreciate it. and coming up on morning joe in our fourth hour war rooms, hotlines and more, how major companies are making sweeping changes to adjust to the new trump administration. andrew ross sorkin and stephanie ruhle join us next to break it all down when morning joe returns in two minutes.

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the venture are already under construction in texas, with ten being built so far. however, elon musk responded to an openai post on x last night, writing that three tech giants involved do not have the money. joining us now, we have nbc news senior business analyst and host of the 11th hour, stephanie ruhle, and from the world economic forum in davos, co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box and a new york times columnist, andrew ross sorkin. andrew, i'll start with you. what's going on? >> well, this is a big deal. >> if, in fact, they. >> do. >> have the money. $100 billion

is. >> a lot of money. >> and it really could change. >> the dynamic. >> shift, the whole. ai universe. it would take openai. >> which is clearly the leader. >> today, and put. >> them on an even greater. >> path to the supremacy, if you will, of. >> of this technology. >> what's interesting to. >> to understand. >> about it is. >> it. >> does also. >> shift the relationship to some. degree between openai and microsoft. >> they've had a very close partnership. >> exclusively. >> insofar as openai was exclusive to what's. >> called the. >> azure platform. >> which is something that. >> microsoft has. >> and now it means that they are going to be. >> able to. >> be on other platforms, in. >> this case, larry ellison, who's. >> a friend. >> of the president's. i will make one. >> maybe it's a. >> political point, but it's worth pointing. >> out the. >> press conference yesterday. sam altman, standing behind the. presidential seal with president trump standing next to him. >> think about. >> that. >> just for a moment. and the reason i say think about that, sam altman. is elon. musk's nemesis, and there has been a

long conversation about whether we. thought that elon musk was going to have influence over president trump, and he was going to use his influence. to thwart and hurt his enemies. and i think. >> it was a surprise. >> i don't know if it's surprising or not, but i think it was remarkable. just worth remarking upon that sam altman and president trump standing there next to each other. i should also mention sam altman spent $1 million during the inauguration. but the truth. >> is that. clearly the. >> president, president trump behind this in a major way. >> and i think. >> that that has a lot of folks. sort of looking at this, trying to understand what it all means. >> well, i think. >> that's a very important point. >> and. >> steph, i mean. we have seen. >> if you read the wall street journal, if. >> you. >> read the financial times. >> if you read bloomberg, we've heard about this rivalry for quite some time. >> and elon musk. >> using his position close to. >> donald trump. >> to sort of. >> box sam. altman out. so yeah, i would say that is news. >> i'm not i don't think we

overread it. >> but certainly. >> all of the. words that were written, talking about how musk. >> is. going to be able to keep. altman away from the incoming president. >> disproven yesterday in that press conference. >> so i'm just saying when. i saw it, i was like, whoa, that's news. >> i think it's less about sam altman and it's more about donald trump saying, i'm the daddy here. there's only one president. remember, over the last few weeks, as elon musk has been glued to donald trump at mar-a-lago, going to have an office just potentially down the road from the white house. this is donald trump potentially putting elon musk on notice and saying to the world, there are not co-presidents. i'm the only one in charge. don't get too comfortable here, elon. sam's around the corner. but i would say elon musk saying i don't even think they have the money. this is something important. it's not that joe biden was anti-ai he wasn't. his executive order was extensive. he talked about it in his final remarks. jake sullivan did, too. one of

the things that the former white house acknowledged, they didn't have the money yet. so donald trump gets in the job, pulls out all the regulations. right. that's the regulations, the sort of guidelines that joe biden had in his executive order. and now these companies are going, yep, without the rules we're in, sir. so i just think what trump announced yesterday kind of encapsulates the two administrations that joe biden was potentially too careful to, to bound by so many restrictions that some would say flew in the face of innovation. and donald trump rolls in and it's like, money or not, i'm announcing it. we're doing it. animal spirits. let's go. it was the two of them in a nutshell. >> are animal spirits. >> let's go. >> there has to be a plaque put up somewhere in the white house on that. andrew, i'm going to ask you about the lead editorial in the wall street journal. but first. >> i just. >> want to tell our viewers we skipped over the bottom one, which is trump pardons the january 6th. cop beaters, law

and order, back the blue. what happened to the gop? >> and they end. by quoting. >> a republican who said, this is third world, third world style anti-american anarchy. that was marco rubio. now mr. trump, secretary of state. he was right. >> what happened. >> that. >> day is a stain on. >> mr. trump's legacy. by setting. >> free the. >> cop beaters, the wall street journal says the president has another now to the one at the top. and this is fascinating. they talk about. >> trump gives tiktok. an illegal amnesty. the tech firm that. >> hosts the app are putting their shareholders at risk. tiktok must sever all ties with bytedance and china, according to a law that's passed. mr. trump can't suspend laws like. >> an english. >> king before the. 1689 bill of rights, says the wall street journal editorial page. congress is a co-equal. >> branch of government, not. >> a subsidiary of the president. members passed a law. >> finding tiktok. >> collected user data.

>> that. would let beijing. >> spy on americans. >> yet now he's canoodling. >> with ceo xiaojie zhou, who was spotted the. inauguration next to tulsi gabbard, the. >> president's nominee for director of national intelligence. >> of all people. >> talk about a. horrible signal. mr. trump is relaying. >> that he puts pleasing china's xi jinping. >> above a law. >> passed by congress. so let's talk about this, this this tiktok executive order. >> what's the. long term. >> impact of this going to be? because the belief. >> has been in the media. >> you've just. >> heard, well, we can wave this magic wand. and. >> suddenly he can change the law. the wall street journal editorial page rupert murdoch's paper says, not so fast. >> he's not a king. well. >> look, i. >> it's a major issue. it's a major. >> there's two issues. >> there's a national security issue and there's. >> a legal issue. >> on the. >> legal side, there will be. >> lawsuits brought.

>> against trying to undo or even create this 90 day suspension where some kind of negotiation happens. because if you look at the language. it's unclear whether the. >> president really. has the right to do that. >> and i think that will play itself out in court unto itself. i think there's a secondary question, and maybe it's really the primary question is, is tiktok a national security threat or not? i talked to ro khanna, a congressman, ro khanna, today, and one of the things he said that was fascinating was the idea, actually, that. the information that had been provided to congress did not actually show demonstrably, that the company was being used by the chinese government, that prospectively it might be a threat in the future, but that some of the language that we've heard from congress and some of the language we've heard from washington was used almost as a campaign. and now there's going to be people i know who are going to say, you know, they think china is dangerous and therefore they think tiktok is dangerous. i'm not going to dispute the prospect of that. but i do think there's some real question marks as to whether

this is a national security threat or not. trump was one of the first people to ever raise it, by the way back the last time he was president. and so i think we're going to have to actually try to figure out, is it a threat or is it a threat? because, by the way, if they are going to split this thing up, you know, he says 50% of the companies could be owned by the us, 50% by china. i don't even know what that means. but then you have to believe it's not a security threat. all of that doesn't totally make sense. one note, by the way, bytedance, the company that owns. the that owns tiktok. is actually owned in large part by many u.s. companies already. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin live for us in davos. andrew, thank you so much, stephanie. last word on this to you. >> listen, when you when you look at this you just have to say which is it donald trump. you want us to buy the panama canal because you're upset about china's control of it. but tiktok, which you know and he will say certainly helped him get elected. he loves tiktok nation. he's okay with it. what the government needs to do if tiktok is a national threat, they need to convince the american people of that, right. the american people already don't trust government and

they're saying, listen, doordash, i've already given it to mark zuckerberg. i've given it to elon musk. we have to convince them donald trump is making a move like this, and that tiktok universe is saying, you're my boy. you protected us from from from government overreach. this is about politics, which he's good at, and national security, which is our priority. >> stephanie ruhle, thank you so much. we'll be watching the 11th hour weeknights at 11 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. you are the best and ceo. speaking of all in together. lauren leader, thank you as well. so much for coming on this morning. coming up, our next guest is hitting on a pain we probably all experienced lately at the market or the pharmacy. >> only time you see. an employee at the grocery store. >> is when you. >> do self checkout. wrong. >> that's the only time. >> you see an employee. >> you done done it wrong. >> and then one. >> of them overlords. >> magically appear. >> you know every self checkout. >> got an overload just. >> watching everybody. you didn't scan your wrong. didn't

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allergies and questionable singing voice. don't make him inherit your final expense. tab two. >> i don't know if we're going to make it. >> we've lost. >> connection.

>> we ain't. >> been. >> right since covid, man. we don't. >> talk. we don't interact. we don't chit chat no more. we don't. we don't even like talking. >> on the phone. we get mad if the phone rings. the phone. >> that. >> was invented. >> for talking. >> you get mad? oh hell no. you got to text me first. >> don't just. >> be calling me. give me a sneak preview of the conversation, and then i will decide. >> if. >> this conversation. requires a. >> human. >> connection. you can't live like that, man. >> so that's. >> just one of. yeah, just one of the many funny and very true lines from comedian roy wood jr's new stand up special. it's on hulu and has the title lonely flowers. as the title hints, the standup focuses on the implications of the growing solitude of americans. and as the new york times put it, lonely flowers is not directly about trump, but it's the first major special since the election to capture the fractious mood in

the culture that gave him a victory. and we're happy to say roy wood jr joins us on set right now. roy, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. thank you for having me over. >> here by myself. >> yeah. well we're. >> emphasizing the lonely element of the lonely theory. the lonely theme is on full display right here. so talk to us about where why you were thinking about this, where this came from. >> it started. >> coming from, like post covid, where you noticed that. >> there was a level. >> of aggression. >> this is going to sound like. >> i'm being. >> funny, but i'm serious. okay. >> i watched. >> a. >> lot. >> of fast food fight. >> videos. >> and i started. >> noticing that the. >> employees were punching us first. >> and that was it. >> you you. watched some of them burger king fight videos. you know, the ones like there used to be. >> there was. >> a sense of aggression. >> within public. >> confrontations between employees. >> and customers, where it used to be the customer. that would be the. >> one. >> to. over correct. >> the customer would. >> initiate the contact. and i. >> started noticing a trend. >> well, why are the employees? well, they're overworked. >> they're underpaid, they're underappreciated. >> the lady who took the hammer to the windshield. yeah, i saw that. >> so you started.

>> seeing employees. >> snapping the same as the customer. >> so that's. >> a societal thing. >> that's not. >> bad service. >> so it's just one of those. >> little threads. you start pulling that. >> and pulling. >> that and you notice, well. >> there's no customer. >> service in the store. >> there's no cashier to talk to. for a lot of people, that. >> was. >> your friend. and that sounds wild. >> but that was your friend. >> i was. >> a waiter for two years when i was in college at golden corral, and there were. >> a number of people. >> who came in there and ate alone, and i know it was. because we gave them conversation. now your server doesn't. >> have. >> time to chit chat, so i just think that that ripple effect started out there, and i just thought it would be something interesting to build an entire comedy set around. >> so your orders are on an ipad that the server puts in, doesn't even talk to the kitchen. >> yeah, like scan a qr, get your own menu. yeah, yeah. everything's locked up in the store. oh my god. >> you and i have worked on causes, but this it goes across racial, ethnic, gender lines. everybody is now isolated. i mean, i ran into you in an airport. you can't even go to the buy a magazine or something.

and now you're dealing with a machine. >> yes. >> yeah. i mean, and i think this is what you're talking about in the show. >> exactly. but then you started, i started looking at society and then just want to start looking at ourselves and the idea like, i'm 46. and so you have friends that rotate in and out, life changes. how do you. even make new friends? because most people. >> you. >> consider your good friends, they're. >> just people you was. >> broke with in. >> your 20s. >> so you don't have that. >> same foundation. >> so you mentioned things being locked up. let's take a look at a clip. here he is. >> locked up everything. you go in these stores now, all these pharmacies and stuff, everything locked up in a damn lockbox. and then they mad at us because we need the key. you mad at me for? and you gotta be all humble when you come up to him. you find one that's got a key. you gotta come up to him all humble. excuse me, man. good evening. my name is roy. >> would it be. >> too much trouble if you could come unlock the mechanics for me? >> i just.

>> would really love some mike and ikes in here. okay, you gotta hold a hand to. when you find an employee in the store, you gotta hold their hand. we go together. we are a couple right now. if you don't hold a hand, somebody will steal your employee. these other customers don't give a damn. you done? done. two laps around the store trying to find an employee. and then here comes some new person coming up to you and your girl. excuse me. could you help me? she good though. watch out. she good. she going to unlock my mike and ikes and she'll tend to whatever the hell you need. let's go baby, he don't know i love you. stop looking at other. customers when you bother me. >> oh my god, jonathan lemire, that literally has happened to me so many times. it takes so long to find the employee and then you can't, like, what are you? i can't remember what i was asking for. >> there's a cvs near me that i've been in so many times. i have my routine. i knew where everything was and i'd be out in three minutes. but now things are locked up. it takes 20 minutes. and it's that sense of

frustration not only is alienating everyone involved, but then that person says, you know what, next time i'm just going to order it online, reducing the social interaction that much further. >> correct. and then you have walgreens coming out and going, oops, our bad. that probably wasn't the best business model. well, okay, but are you going to hire more people still to cover for that? because i still think that the retail experience is part of the social experience in this country and how we acclimate it to one another. and i think automation and the growth of all of the big boxes really changed that. and also doordash and all of that stuff, too. the idea just going to get carry out, just the chit chat while you're waiting on them to get your order wrong. >> so when people see your show, leave it if you do it live, but certainly see it on the on the air. now that you have it out. >> there. >> what do you hope they walk away with? what is there any message you're trying to give, or are you just revealing stuff? >> no, the message near the end is to seek connection. you have to actively go out and do that. you have to figure out ways to make don't fall into the habits of isolation just because it

feels easy. go join the fantasy football league, go to the book club. go do whatever you need to do to be around other people short of drug use. yes, do something to seek connection. my mother is 76 years old. every time i go home to birmingham, it's a new friend on the couch. i'm like, how are you finding who are these people? but she just keep them churning. so if she can do it, i know i can do it too, and everybody else can. >> i love it. what an incredibly important message. the new stand up special lonely flowers is streaming now on hulu. roy wood jr. thank you and thank you for giving us a reason to smile this morning. >> thank you. >> nice to have you on. >> all right. good luck. talking about all that other stuff. i need some. >> i do. >> thank you. i'm going to take that. that does it for us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow. bright and early at 6 a.m. eastern. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on. ana cabrera reports. >> president trump's.