june 24th, and we know in a lot of cities the primary is the election. and so we've got a pretty crowded race. but eric adams, you know, under federal indictment, is cozying up to donald trump. indeed, because this could be the person who administers a pardon. we know that. you know, eric adams thus far in the race is probably a more centrist, moderate candidate. all the other candidates, by and large, are to the left of him. and so we he was very vocal about fighting with joe biden, about needing more money, needing more resources when it came to the influx of migrants that we had over the past few months. and so he's hoping that donald trump will not just give him the resources and the finances that he needs, but also possibly an attorney, a u.s. attorney that will be a little more sympathetic to some of his more unsavory legal woes that he faces. >> yeah. >> it's going to be a fascinating primary, especially as eric adams told tucker carlson that he feels the democratic party has left him. christina greer, we're going to have a lot to dig into. thank you for joining us.

>> thank you. >> and that was. >> way too early for this thursday morning. morning joe starts right now. >> it was a terrible time and a terrible chapter in america's history. the president's made his decision. i don't second guess those. and yes, you know, it's kind of my ethos, my worldview. we believe in redemption. we believe in second chances. if you could, you would argue that those people didn't pay a heavy penalty having been incarcerated and all of that. that's up to you. but the president's made a decision. we move forward. there are better days ahead of us. that's what we're excited about. we're not looking backwards or looking forwards. it was shocking. i mean, it was it was shocking what president biden did on the way out, pardoning his family for more than a decade of whatever activity, any nonviolent offenses. it was it was breathtaking to us. i don't think that's anything like that's ever been anticipated. and by the way, go look at the tape. you know, four years ago when it was just implied that president trump might do something similar, they were apoplectic. joe biden himself, adam schiff, chuck schumer, roll the tape. they all said that would be crazy and

unconscionable. and now they're cheering it along. it's to us. it is disgusting. to us. it probably proves the point. the suspicion that, you know, they call it the biden crime family. if they weren't the crime family, why do they need pardons? right. look, there's a lot of attention that's going to be paid to this, and i think that is appropriate. and we will be looking at it as well. >> all right. >> just to recap what we saw there for speaker johnson, it's time to. >> move on. >> from president trump's. >> pardons of january. >> 6th rioters. but president biden's. >> pardons deserve. >> more investigation. we're going to bring you the president's. >> new comments defending his. >> clemency for the mob that attacked the capitol, including those who assaulted police officers. >> we'll also. >> go through. >> the president's threats. to sanction. russia over. >> the war. >> in ukraine. plus, we'll dig into elon musk. undercutting the president's. >> major investment. in ai. >> and his feud. with the project's partners. and in sports. philadelphia is gearing.

up for sunday's big nfl playoff game. but the mayor needs a little work on the. team's chant. >> let me hear you all say. >> e l g l e s eagles! >> yay! >> i like the energy. >> it's e-a-g-l-e-s. >> but that's okay. they're excited. >> it's fun. >> good morning and welcome to morning joe. >> that's it. >> you i mean. >> it's cue. >> cards if you need them. >> oh i would totally do that. >> excited. >> sometimes my. >> mouth is freezing out in the cold. people are. >> looking at me. >> all right. >> with us. >> we. >> have the co-host of the fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics, member of the new york times editorial board. mara gay, managing editor at the bulwark. sam stein is. >> with. >> us, u.s. national editor at the financial times. >> editor luce is here. >> and senior writer for the dispatch. david drucker. so,

joe, a. >> lot going on. >> but. we kind of. >> need to. >> remain focused here. >> signal versus noise. >> signal versus noise. and, you know, we just heard christina. >> greer last hour. >> telling ali, we. >> we have to be careful. >> to continue to. >> separate what she calls. >> performative acts. >> versus what is. >> actually meaningful change in yesterday. i think that's a that's a great way to frame this, because. there are a. >> flurry of things. >> that are out there. including stories of the new york times. >> about. >> how how. donald trump, you know, has things. >> in the inauguration that look like thrones. >> et cetera. et cetera. again, signal. versus noise. yesterday, i thought it was so. >> so helpful. >> the pod save america guys that came on who were just. >> absolutely great. >> i love having them, loved having them on yesterday. but they said at. one point he said. >> well, we have. to do is.

>> we have to stop telling. >> people about. >> how. >> what donald. >> trump says. shocks people. >> and instead talk about how what he does affects people. >> how it. >> affects their lives. so. yes. signal versus noise. >> we're going to get to all of that. but i do feel like i we need to. go to our editor. her the member of the new york times editorial. board and. >> ask her. >> the. question when. exactly when. >> exactly did the democratic party leave? mayor eric adams with what. >> investigation launched? >> just talking. >> about it made. >> him suddenly. >> decide that. >> he was no. >> longer a democrat. this is a this wasn't exactly. >> a ronald. >> reagan moment. >> was it, maura? >> oh, yeah. >> it's interesting because maybe it was the moment when the

democratic party refused to look away at allegations of. corruption into his administration. >> in the same way that the republican. >> party just allowed. donald trump to do whatever he pleased. >> i guess that's the standard. >> that eric adams is potentially. looking for. >> from the. >> democratic party. he has made no secret of his attempt to seek a. >> pardon from the. >> president of the united states. now, it is led to a lot of embarrassment. >> not only for the mayor personally. >> but among a lot of. >> constituents in this. >> city to. democratic town. you know, at the same time, he has a base, some. >> of whom black men, for. >> example, in southeast queens. >> just one slice of. >> his base. you know who? i've talked to some of them and they say, hey, there's a double standard. so we kind of see how the mayor might feel persecuted and maybe we agree, but i. >> think. that is a.

>> narrow interpretation. and i do believe that depending on how everyday new. >> yorkers experience. >> the next few months of the. >> trump administration. >> and depending on how adams is competition in the primary perform, he may be up. >> for a. >> serious challenge. >> yeah, and. i think we need to go to our daily news alum who who spent much of his early career harassing new york city mayors, even chasing bill de blasio to his daily gym trips in brooklyn. >> jonathan lemire. >> he was super annoying. >> daily news alums, right. you both daily news alums. >> yeah. >> so yeah, john, really quickly, i just i'm sorry. it's just too rich. i, i didn't leave the democratic party. the democratic party left me. i mean, come on, really, has there ever been like a more. more sort

of air of corruption around not only the mayor but everybody? everybody. it seems. that works. >> for him. yeah. >> there was certainly. >> that wave. >> of indictments and investigations. >> fbi raids that surrounded. >> adams's inner circle. >> a few. >> months ago. i'll just note many new yorkers still hold those. >> gym trips. >> against bill de. >> blasio, but. >> this has been. >> a. such a blatant effort. >> here. from adams to. >> court favor. >> from trump. >> he attended. >> he got a. >> middle of. the night. >> invitation to the. >> inauguration. >> skipping mlk. >> day events in. new york. >> city so. >> he could drive. >> down to washington at one in the. >> morning and. >> attend that. >> he has been. >> to. >> to, to, to palm, to mar-a-lago. and yes, there are real, of. >> course. >> real reasons for the mayor of the nation's. >> largest city. >> to talk. >> to the. then president elect. but the. >> speculation it. >> was about a pardon. >> he did an interview with. >> tucker. >> carlson the other night. >> he's doing everything. >> he can. >> to move. >> in on, on on trump. he's withheld criticism of a lot of trump's more controversial policies. but at least at this point, his efforts for pardon may not be working, because just yesterday, the interim u.s.

attorney appointed by trump until the normal u.s. attorney for the southern district could be appointed, basically. >> dismissed. >> adams's public claims, mika, that the investigation into him was somehow ordered by the biden department of. justice because it was. >> revenge. because adams. criticized biden's. >> migrant policy. and this attorney, again appointed in an interim basis by donald trump. >> suggests. >> no, that's not it. >> there's a there there. >> and the prosecution is going. >> to continue. >> oh my. >> okay. >> well and of course, all this may lead to ultimately, mika, the return of one andrew cuomo. so there you go. >> it's going. >> to be an. >> interesting mayor's race. >> all right. our top story. this morning, the republican led house has passed the lincoln riley act, a strict immigration detention bill named for. >> a 22. >> year old georgia nursing. >> 22 year. >> old. >> georgia nursing. >> student murdered. >> last year. by an. undocumented immigrant. the legislation targets.

undocumented individuals. >> who commit. >> crimes and. is expected to become the first bill signed into law by president trump. >> in his second term. >> the house passed the bill to 63 to 156, with 46. democrats joining. every republican. >> in support. >> the senate passed the. >> bill on. >> monday by a vote of 64 to 35, which included 12 democrats, among them senators gary peters, jon ossoff. >> jeanne shaheen and. >> mark warner. all of whom are. >> up for. >> reelection next year. >> the act. >> requires ice to take. custody of and detain undocumented. >> immigrants who. are charged, arrested. >> or. convicted of. >> committing acts. >> of burglary. >> theft. >> larceny or shoplifting. >> the venezuelan citizen who was. found guilty. >> of kidnaping, assaulting and. murdering riley while she was out. >> for a jog. >> near the university of georgia, was. >> in the. >> u.s. illegally. he had been.

>> cited for shoplifting by a georgia. >> police department. >> but ice. did not issue a detainer for. >> him. and he was. not taken. >> into custody. so this is one of the first. >> pieces of. legislation passed. joe. >> right. and again, this is where we're talking about signal versus noise, performative acts versus actually actions that that, that that are going to be impactful. this is this is obviously david drucker, something that the overwhelming majority of americans support. i think you go all the way up into the 80s. there are some people that that suggest it goes too far. but even that argument you're getting into the old broken windows argument about, like, for instance, rudy giuliani and police officers going after, in some cases shoplifting, that when they go after the smaller crimes, that leads to larger crimes. and, you know, right now in 2025, the

overwhelming majority of americans support this act. and it's one of the reasons why, when it passed, it passed with strong bipartisan support. yeah. >> look. >> if you want to. >> you know, try and. >> understand one. >> of the reasons why donald. >> trump was sent. >> back to the white house. >> after, you know, everything that he said and did during his first term and in the aftermath. >> of his first. >> term, you don't have to look any farther than how, you know. president biden and the views of so many voters mismanaged border security. and this is just not complicated, joe. right. i mean, some things take political explainers. and, you know, we've got to say, you know, point. >> a to point b to. >> point c, and that that, you. >> know. >> explains why. >> why things happen. >> people of. >> all political. >> backgrounds, even if they draw different conclusions on. >> exact. >> policy prescriptions, are probably going to tell you that if you're in this country illegally and you commit crimes, that shouldn't happen, and the government ought to do something. about it, particularly when it becomes an issue of public safety concern

for so many voters. and so you saw the political marketplace at work here with democrats in the senate, where this needed 60 votes, participating with republicans to advance this legislation. it was, of course, going to clear the republican house and the number of democrats in the house that voted for this wasn't inconsequential, but it's the senate that really tells you what's happening, where you have democrats up for reelection in 2026 that help make sure this is law. the one thing that i'd add, guys is if the president, the new president, wants to have a real impact on immigration policy, it's going to happen through legislation like this versus executive orders, which are ephemeral, exactly. >> reversed when. >> the next president takes office, particularly if that president is a democrat. and they take issue with some of the things that the president, current president is doing on immigration. >> all right. and, david, we actually saw that with joe biden. you know, think about all the executive orders that joe biden signed to reverse what donald trump put into effect.

and donald trump spent his first day in office reversing so many of those. i mean, this is so key that that, again, there's a lot of performative actions. over the past several days, there have been some things that we can talk about in a second. there have been some also some some things that are going to have a significant impact on this country. but if you're going to change immigration in particular, unilateral acts are are only going to change things. so much. it's legislation like this that actually is going to bend history. correct. >> and president trump actually understands what he's doing this time around. you may disagree with him, but when he came into the presidency the first time, he barely understood how congress works. and i mean that in a very basic level, just understanding the process, let alone do you get what you want or not. >> this time, he. >> understands the process. he understands, as presidents

before him did, how to exert executive authority. that may be questionable, but presidents are never shy in using every piece of authority that they may or may not have, which stands in so different to congress, which is happy to give power away to the executive and judicial branches. also, i think president trump has more latitude this time. whatever people thought about the border, and there was a huge concern about the border in 2017 as he entered office in that first term, given how things went for most of the biden administration, president trump has more political latitude. i believe in the country to be aggressive in how he brings the border and immigration, both legal and illegal, under control from his perspective. and so i don't think that you're going to see necessarily the same kind of pushback, at least initially, that we saw at times during that first term. >> you know, at least you've you've written about and we discussed at length last time you were here, joe biden's

tragic legacy. of course, there are many points to that. there also, of course, mika will be glad to tell you, as will i. there are also some really great achievements during his. >> his first. >> term, but she'll she'll probably tell us this after i finish this question with you. but one of the sad legacies is the fact that there were some blind spots in the administration, blind spots that you and i, over dinner at times, even. >> two years ago. three years ago. >> we're talking about blind spots, not only in the biden administration, but also among democrats. one was what was going on on campus even before the protests last year, and another was again the flood of illegal immigrants over the southern border. and just something that neither joe biden nor the democratic. >> party as a whole. >> got their arms around. and it did. illegal immigration hasn't been an issue that has changed presidential races in the past, but boy, it sure did this time,

didn't it? >> yeah. >> it sure did. i mean, i. >> think back to the 2019, 2020 democratic primaries and that sort of competitive amongst the candidate, the candidates for the democratic nomination, the competing to see who could scream. >> open border. >> more loudly than others. beto o'rourke, people like that. and biden, you know, biden was on that stage. he was. actually the moderate. >> on that stage. >> it wasn't calling for. >> for open borders. >> but it captured. >> the spirit of a party that i. >> think had lost all. touch with american public. >> opinion, with the median voter on that issue. >> and yes, during the. >> early biden years, partly because the pandemic ended, there was a surge. >> of immigration. there were also changes to. >> regulations that that made it easier for them to come through with or without a pandemic. >> but that. ended by the end of. >> the biden term. >> we've had. illegal

immigration dropped very, very sharply. it's a really. >> eccentric precipitously. >> for president. >> trump to. >> be declaring a national emergency. i think he's devaluing the word emergency. >> he's talking about an. energy emergency. >> a crime emergency, a border emergency on all. >> these issues. biden has left him a. >> pretty. >> good situation. so, you know, call me a pedantic, but i think the word emergency is being misused. >> well, you're not alone. the conservative wall street journal editorial page has pretty much said the same thing. don't devalue the word emergency. when right now, at this moment, there's not an emergency. just like when donald trump got into office in 2017, illegal border crossings on the southern border were actually at 50 year lows. at the same time he was talking about and his supporters were talking about building the wall, building the wall. we've got to stop the invasion. they were at 50 year lows, not at 50 year lows now, but they are at five year lows. so to declare a

national emergency at this time actually is the wall street journal editorial page says seems to be devaluing the word emergency. that said, at the same time, this is an issue that matters a great deal to americans. but you look at the reuters poll, we showed the overwhelming majority of americans want people that came here illegally who have committed crimes in america to be deported. that is where the overwhelming majority of americans are right now. and that's why this legislation passed in such a bipartisan manner. >> yeah. our other top story this morning, president trump continues to. defend his pardons. for all of the january 6th rioters. the president last night. downplayed the violence. >> against police officers. >> that day in the first oval office interview of. >> his new term. >> take a listen. >> a number of reasons. number one, they were in there for three and a half years, a long

time, and in many solitary confinement, treated like nobody's ever been treated. it's treated so badly. they were treated like the worst criminals in history. and you know what they were there for? they were protesting the vote because they knew the election was rigged and they were protesting the vote, and that you should be allowed to protest, to vote. you should be allowed to, you know, the day when the day comes, you shouldn't. >> be. >> able to invade the capitol. ready? most of the people were absolutely innocent. okay. but forgetting all about that, these people have served horribly a long time. it would be very, very cumbersome to go and look, you know how many people we're talking about? 1500 people, almost all of them are should not have been there should not have happened. and the other thing is this some of those people with the police, true. but they were very minor incidents. okay. you know, they they get built up by that couple of fake guys that are on cnn all

the time. nobody watches. they were very minor incidents. and it was time you had 1500 people that suffered. that's a lot of people. do you know, they were looking for new people two weeks ago. they were looking, wait a minute. they were looking to charge new people. they have a woman who's 76 years old that they said was made a statement that was a little bit out of line years after the fact. this was a political hoax. and you know what? those people and i'm not saying in every single case, but there was a lot of patriotism with those people. >> so sam stein, you just heard. >> it in the friendly confines. >> of sean hannity. oval office interview donald trump. continues to downplay what happened there. >> suggesting that officers were. >> exaggerating their injuries. we had michael fanone on. >> our air yesterday talk about how he suffered.

>> a heart attack, went into cardiac arrest, was beaten within an inch. >> of his life. we talked about. >> how members there, you know, rise. >> some of the rioters would use flagpoles, baseball bats, whatever it might be. >> the cops own. >> weapons. their batons. >> to attack them. >> and yet. >> this for donald trump seems to be closing the book after four years of, in his mind. >> a successful. >> effort to downplay what we're seeing right there on our screens. i mean. >> obviously it's ridiculous and insulting to the officers who went through that traumatic ordeal. several officers took. >> their lives. >> i don't consider. >> that. >> minor in the slightest. i don't think anyone would objectively consider. >> that minor. >> should note that. >> it was interesting. >> to see how he kind of sheepishly say, you. shouldn't be able. >> to invade the. >> capitol, right? >> of course, you shouldn't. >> be able. >> to be in the capitol. >> that's it goes without. >> saying, but this is trump. >> at his, you. >> know. >> peak, right? >> he wants to erase this part. >> of history. >> and i'm not. >> honestly. nothing about it. >> surprises me. i think. >> the more. >> interesting. >> more surprising. element of

this was mike. >> johnson. >> which the video will be played, which is mike johnson sort of saying, well, let's just move on. that's in the past. >> we don't need to. >> relitigate this. let's go for it. and then. >> hours later, launching a an. investigative committee. in congress to. >> investigate the. >> preceding days of january 6th. >> and the. >> and what happened. after january. >> 6th. basically investing. >> the investigators. >> and so they are trying to recast. >> this entire history. >> begins with. >> trump's blanket. >> pardons. >> which in that interview. >> he said it. >> would have been. >> too cumbersome. to go through individual cases. >> so just. >> do all 1500. and then it continues into. >> the use of. >> congressional resources, congressional. >> authorities to try to cast. >> doubt on the prosecution, the legitimate prosecution of the people. >> who rioted. >> who tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power. it is a. >> deliberate and comprehensive attempt to try to rewrite. >> one of the darker chapters of our political history. >> well, you know, we've seen before when congress and others

have tried to investigate the investigators regarding trump administration, it never ends well for those investigating the investigators. and in this case, you better believe that if you open this door back up and you really want to go back to january the 6th and you were a supporter of donald trump, you're going to not only see this, you're going to see cops as as the wall street journal called them cop beaters. you're going to see the people that, that, that, that walked free after beating the hell out of cops, after after doing things that led to the death of several cops. talk to their families. they'll tell you that you'll hear more people like michael fanone, who went to work that day to do their job to protect the united states capitol, who had the hell beaten out of them. they were kicked. they were tased. and by these people that were bragging, they were bragging about beating the hell

out of law enforcement officers. so the elevation of cop beaters. yeah. by by mike johnson saying, oh, listen, let's not focus on the cop beaters. let's let's. >> focus on. >> the biden pardons, you know, good luck with that. it's just not going to end well. it's really not it's not going to end well for republicans. it's not going. >> to. >> end well for the white house. david drucker, let's let's talk, though, about the impact and the blowback on this. i've already talked about how the wall street journal editorial page was, was sufficiently shocked at at clemency for cop beaters. and, and there were about half a dozen republicans that came out yesterday in the senate and, and actually condemned this, said it was a bad thing to do. they wouldn't do it. that said, from republicans i spoke to and i'm really curious what you heard, whether they said it in front of microphones or not. there was a

deep, abiding unease all across the capitol yesterday among republicans saying that some of the worst of the worst actually got to walk free after beating the hell out of law enforcement officers. >> yeah. look, i mean, how often is there a deep, abiding unease about something donald trump says or does? and it really doesn't matter. he campaigned on this. he said he was going to do this. this is not shocking. and all that matters politically is what do voters think? and voters voted for him anyway. so i'm not saying it doesn't matter. and i am not saying people shouldn't be upset, but this is not going to surprise anybody. and it's the sort of thing that could end up blowing back on trump if the things he was really elected to do, which is get the border under control and improve the economy by bringing down inflation, bringing down costs,

i mean, these are things that voters really want from him, not all of this other stuff. if he gets that wrong, then it becomes death by a thousand cuts and it's like, oh, you did this and you did that. but all of these. >> things were. >> very well known. so this is not to excuse it, but just to point out politically, this is not going to be a shock to the system or a shock to the public, nor is it a shock to republicans. they knew he would do this. and they have been okay with this because their voters have been okay with this. and look, we could end up being wrong. there could be some sort of immediate, you know, pushback broadly throughout the country. but everybody knows who donald trump is at this point. they've listened to him for almost a decade, and i'd be surprised if initially there was a big uproar. >> well, mika, this is what what what you've been saying is. >> yeah. >> he he campaigned on this. he promised to do this. i mean, the only caveat to that, of course, is talking about doing it by case by case basis. jd vance

saying, no, we're not going to let the violent criminals out. the ones that. >> beat up the cops. and we. >> heard that from. >> a lot. >> of republicans. but that is a caveat to a much bigger campaign thing where he glorified throughout the campaign, the january 6th rioters. voters knew he was glorifying them, calling them patriots, and they voted for him and elected him. so david makes a very good point. >> yeah. >> and not. >> only did. >> he campaign. >> on this. >> this is his right. >> as hard. >> as. >> it is to say this is his. right as. >> president. >> and yesterday. >> i was. >> reading a lot about this. >> and watching. >> the. >> coverage. >> and i was seeing reporters getting into. >> huge fights with republican congressmen. >> and they. >> just kept going around. >> in circles. >> because, of course. >> donald trump. >> kept his. >> word and. >> joe biden. >> did not. >> that's also true. and so that's the trap. >> you know, reporters are going to. >> get in.

>> they're going to go round in circles. >> that's only going to. >> feed into the. >> negative narrative about the media. >> it's going to do. >> nothing to prove a point about this. nothing. it actually may undermine it. and mara gay, i feel like editorial writers. >> need to step up. >> democrats need to step. >> up. >> a voices like. >> michael fanone. >> need to. >> be heard. >> i was. >> listening to him all day, and we had him on the show yesterday. gripping and. >> absolutely to the point. >> of the problem here. >> and so there's. >> a role. >> here for. >> those who need to step up. >> and by the. >> way, i would really. >> hope that some republicans would step up. but again, there. >> are. >> some potholes. here that. >> i think the. >> media falls. >> into. >> and we. >> can't let that happen because there. >> are some realities. >> about this that are undeniable. >> it is. >> his right. >> and he promised. >> and then there's. >> the counter narrative. >> which is also undeniable. >> joe biden promised that he

would not. >> pardon his son. >> or. his family. >> and he did. and he. >> also. >> pardoned others who have done things. >> and it's. >> extremely muddled. and it's not a fight that. >> i think personally. >> reporters and hosts want. >> to get. >> in to have moments. i think. >> i. >> really don't. >> i think. >> we're getting in the way of things. so i'm looking at this from a coverage perspective to someone who works at the new york times. >> i think that's. >> exactly the right question. >> you know, during trump's first. >> term, there. was a lot of both on the part of the democratic. >> party and even from voters in the media. there was kind of a grasping at normalcy. so an attempt. >> to excuse. >> away. to minimize some of what. >> donald trump was. >> not only. >> doing in office, but. said that he was about. >> it was clear that he. >> was not committed. >> to democracy. >> but there. >> was a lot of kind of. hand-holding of donald trump. well, surely you. want to.

>> actually support democracy. >> surely you couldn't mean the things that. >> you're saying. >> and i think this is a moment where. >> the opposition and that is not. >> just the democratic party, but that's any american who's committed to democracy, has to look at this. >> and say. >> this is about raw. >> power. >> and this is a man who promised some really. shocking things. >> that are destructive to our democracy. >> and he is delivering on them. there is no excusing it away. and i think the other moment, you know, this, the pardons are one moment, you know, the nazi salute from elon. >> musk was another. >> so this is a challenge to not excuse away. not minimize, to call a spade a. >> spade but cover it. >> and those. >> who should. >> call a. >> spade a spade, especially. >> republicans and democrats in in washington, editorial writers. >> victims. >> you know, ultimately, americans will. >> have to see. >> what is happening here. >> as. >> he delivers.

>> on his promises. >> and they will decide. >> whether or. >> not this. >> is what they really wanted. i do i do talk to a lot of people who voted for trump who. don't think these things would have happened, so i wonder where that leads. senior writer david drucker, thank you very much for reading for joining us this morning. we'll be reading your new reporting for the dispatch online now and still ahead on morning joe. a new fast moving wildfire breaks out in los angeles. >> county. >> burning more than 10,000 acres in just a matter. >> of hours. >> we'll have the latest. >> from that already hard hit area. >> plus a. >> live report from davos as. >> president trump prepares to address global business leaders today. >> also ahead. >> we'll get to president trump's new threat to hit russia with tariffs. if vladimir putin doesn't end the war in ukraine. we're back in 90s. >> this one. >> goes. >> better with the walls.

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to get a better price. >> on their meds. >> i tell them about. >> single care. >> it's a free app accepted. >> at pharmacies nationwide. >> before i pick up. >> my prescription. >> i always. >> check. >> the single. >> care price. >> it's quick, easy, and totally free to use. >> single care can literally. >> beat. >> my insur prescription and show your single. >> care coupon at the pharmacy. >> so i just show the coupon and get this price. >> that's right. >> go to single. >> care.com and. >> start saving today. >> all right. 33 past. the hour. >> time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. a new wildfire exploded north of los angeles. >> yesterday, forcing tens. >> of thousands. >> of. >> people to evacuate. the flames shut down schools and. >> businesses and. temporarily closed. >> parts of interstate five. it comes more than two weeks after the first wave of. >> deadly infernos. >> tore through. >> the region. >> we'll stay on. >> that overnight. >> we learned that seven police officers. >> in san. >> antonio, texas, were shot

while responding to a suicide in progress call. according to authorities, none of. >> the. >> officers injuries. >> are believed. >> to be life threatening. the shooting happened just. >> before 8:30. >> p.m. local time. police say the original call to. >> authorities came. >> from a family member. the suspect. >> who is described. >> to be in his 40s, barricaded. himself inside an apartment for several hours when swat teams arrived on the scene. >> in the end. >> he was found. >> dead inside the complex. >> police are still. unsure if the suspect's death was. >> self-inflicted or whether he was shot by. >> officers. and. >> a 17 year. >> old opened. >> fire inside. a school cafeteria in nashville, tennessee. >> it happened. >> around 11. >> a.m. yesterday morning. at antioch high school. we've learned the shooter confronted his classmates in the cafeteria and then proceeded to fire multiple shots. >> a 16 year. >> old student. >> was killed and another was

grazed by a bullet and treated at a nearby hospital. the gunman. >> then. >> fatally shot. himself with a handgun. >> at this. >> moment. >> a motive remains. >> unclear, but. police say they. >> are reviewing. >> very concerning online writings. and social media. >> posts linked. >> to the gunman. the shooting comes nearly two years after another deadly. >> shooting in. >> the city that took the lives of six people. as of now, the high. >> school will be closed. >> for the rest. >> of the week. >> joe. >> yeah, just a shock to the people of nashville again, coming two years after another deadly shooting at a school. our prayers are certainly with those families affected and. >> the schools. >> affected and for the people of nashville. the madness has to stop. president trump's threatening new tariffs and sanctions against russia if a deal to stop fighting in ukraine isn't reached soon. in a lengthy

media post yesterday, trump explained he's not going to he's not looking to hurt russia and that he loves the russian. >> people. >> but that vladimir putin must settle now because it's only going to get worse. trump said if a deal isn't reached soon, he won't have any other choice but to put high levels of tariffs of and sanctions imported on russian products. the wall street journal cites census bureau data that shows the rate at which imported russian goods enter the u.s. has dropped drastically since putin launched his war. let's bring in right now. >> wall street journal reporter. >> alan cullison. he's a former moscow correspondent for the journal. reporting from russia for over 20 years. alan, thank you so much for being with us. i guess i guess this. >> is. >> you know, the economic impact is not going to be. quite so great on any tariffs because trade has dwindled so rapidly since the invasion. but, but, but what does what does this

statement by president trump say about how far he's willing to push vladimir putin on getting this war to getting the sides to the negotiating table? i think the statement is actually quite significant. it he meant more than tariffs. clearly the yeah. the trade with russia has dwindled a lot over the years. it never was that significant to begin with because of our distance of course. but you know, the united states has waged a pretty breathtaking sanction regime regime against him. and this statement by trump is the strongest, strongest indication yet that he's going to continue it and maybe even ramp it up. i think it probably was quite a surprise to the kremlin that he would say this. this was even before trump and putin have had an official phone call. yeah. you know, you've you've obviously covered russia

a great deal of your adult life and understand the relationship between vladimir putin and the united states. i always thought there was a fascinating split screen in the first trump administration, where donald trump would go to helsinki. he would say. >> things that would. >> horrify americans. and at the same time, congress, with donald trump support, would pass some. >> of the. >> toughest sanctions. a republican congress would pass. >> some of the. >> toughest sanctions against vladimir putin. i'm wondering if that's a continuation of that. i'm also wondering, economically, where is putin right now? where is russia right now as this war grinds on? yeah, i think the split screen is likely to continue. i think that trump himself is probably relishing the fact that people expect him to be conciliatory towards putin, but he's not in action here, and this is a signal of it. i think that the

economic sanctions are getting more and more important to putin. the biden administration. unleashed some sanctions that. >> were really. >> unprecedented against a country so large. i don't think it's ever been done in really in the history of sanctions making. and the russian economy is feeling some strains on it. the, you know, inflation is ramping up and they're having to raise interest rates. the, you know, economy is going to cough. i think that there's also a pretty bad labor shortage. the big question right now is whether sanctions alone are really. >> going. >> to be enough to stop the war. you know, the russians think that they're winning the war and they don't really see a whole lot of reason to negotiate. so i was going to ask you, alan. go ahead. oh, i'm so sorry, i yeah,

i'm so sorry. i was going to ask you about the state of the war from from all that, you know, all you hear from all of your reporting in the united states. it seems that that one week we will we'll get new stories and headlines that say russia is gaining ground, pushing westward, keeves even at risk. and the next week we'll hear about ukrainian attacks going deep into russia. and it's really hard to tell what the stage of this war is at and, and, and who has the momentum right now. you take everything you read in the united states, and i'm sure across the west, and it seems that it is an ugly war of attrition, sort of 2025 version of world war one. what what what are your sources telling you inside of russia and ukraine about the state of this

war? well, i think that the russians do have the momentum right now. it's dearly bought. they have very high casualty rate and it is taking a toll on their economy. but the russian calculation is that the pain, of course, is felt on both sides. and i think the hope was that the ukrainians were going to crack sometime this year. and that they might even crack, you know, before half the year is over. but if they can be persuaded that the war will continue not only this year, but the ukrainians can continue to stand next year, then i think it might might be a good for them, you know, a recalculation on how they're doing things. i think that's why this discussion of economic sanctions and trump's desire to stand up, stand up and

force a change is significant. yeah. all right. wall street journal reporter alan cullison, thank you so much. we hope you come back soon. >> thank you. >> all right. ed luce, i'm curious. your take. you obviously have been following this, but for the financial times from the europeans perspective, donald trump's statement obviously not only causing surprise, i'm sure, in moscow, but also across some of the capitals of europe that he is pushing. and the. belief in the campaign was always going to be that the pressure was going to all be on zelensky. that's certainly not the signal he sent last night. >> yeah, i mean, this this. >> was. >> a very. >> pleasant surprise. i'm not used to pleasant surprises. none of us are at the moment. >> it was a positive shock. i think. >> what trump said. >> yesterday, and i. >> think my guesswork as to why he did. this is that i think, as

alan just. >> laid out, putin. >> is not interested. >> in talks. >> at the moment. >> he believes he's. >> gaining and has more to gain on the battlefield. >> and remember, you know, if the war is now almost. >> three years. >> old, it will be three years next month. he's actually got less. territory today than he had before he invaded of ukraine, less. >> so. >> having lost 200,000. >> men and another. >> sort of several hundred. thousand casualties. >> who weren't killed. >> this is an. >> extraordinary high cost for no gain. so clearly. >> putin doesn't want to talk. trump has campaigned. >> on saying, i'll. >> fix it in. >> 24 hours. keith kellogg. his general, former general who's, you know, there to be the envoy. >> on this. is saying 100. >> days, but even 100 days sounds short. if one of the parties, the aggressor, isn't interested in talking. so i think this sort of. this riles up trump's pride that he is the

dealmaker. >> putin isn't. >> even responding. >> and so. >> he's got to apply. >> some, apply some pressure. some arm twisting. >> to get putin to. >> think again. >> and i'm. >> hoping for. >> some more. pleasant surprises. i'm not forecasting them, but i like pleasant surprises. it's such an odd feeling. >> and mika, i've been talking to some trump officials in recent days. >> they the unpredictability here is the point. >> he's trying. >> to keep. >> the putin. >> and the russia. >> and those in the conflict off guard. he does want this, this war to end sooner or later, in part because of the possible economic toll that could take. the longer it stretches. we'll see if he follows through. that's the great unknown. but at least right now it feels like some saber rattling might be helpful. >> interesting. ukrainian president zelenskyy was at the world. economic forum. >> in davos earlier this. >> week. >> and today president trump. >> is expected. to address the. >> global business. >> leader at the gathering. he will do so virtually with us now from the world economic forum.

>> in davos, chief. >> content officer and editor. >> in chief at forbes. >> randall lane. so, randall, tell us what you're hearing there. reaction, world. reaction to the trump presidency. overall, his first moves in office and looking ahead to his address. >> yeah. well, you know he's obviously it's quite a week to be here. and you could actually see the world kind of react in real time to this flurry of actions he's been taking. but i got to say, mika, a lot of this. >> seems to be baked in. it's not. i was. >> here eight years. >> ago when. >> he was inaugurated, and that was kind of shock. >> this year. >> it seems like. >> everyone is ready. >> you know, a lot. >> of. >> this. >> you know, we're here at the this is the. capital of multilateralism. >> and everyone seems. >> to accept. >> that multilateralism. >> for at least the next four. >> years isn't happening. >> and you. >> see it. >> you know. >> we. >> talk about zelensky. >> even ukraine. >> has a space here where. >> they're doing meetings and lobbying. >> and whatnot. >> and the theme is every country. >> first. >> they're they're mimicking the language of america first.

>> and actually pivoting. from the idea. >> and i get to spend. >> time with the zelensky on tuesday to a small group of editors in chief, and kind of had. >> a little meeting, and you. >> could see him. >> pivot where. >> instead of him talking about the moral need. >> to support ukraine, which you saw. >> last. >> year, he came. >> and he. >> had a standing ovation. this year he spoke. >> there was. >> no standing ovation. he talked about the self-interest of america and europe to helping ukraine. big pivot. >> you see. >> it and you see that up and down here in davos. >> everybody accepting that the world has changed and they're. >> reacting to it. >> hey randall. >> sam stein. >> here i'm. >> kind of curious beyond. >> the countries davos obviously huge. >> gathering of. >> some of the wealthiest people. >> on the planet. >> what we've seen. here in the united states obviously. >> is. >> that the our our. tech titans and some of our leading financiers have all made the calculated decision that they are going to cozy up to trump, flatter him. >> work with. >> him. >> pledge billions. >> of dollars. >> to projects. although maybe some. >> question about whether. >> that financing will.

>> come through. that's another point. >> but i'm curious. >> at davos. >> is it. >> the same vibe? >> are the. >> wealthy also. >> saying. >> you know what, all that kind. >> of. >> quasi. >> protesting we did. >> eight years. >> ago. >> all that moral high ground stuff, we're done with. >> that and we're going. >> to. actually be. >> partners with. >> this administration. >> you are feeling some of that. >> and the discussion here, you would think, and. >> again, to watch all that. >> happen from. >> afar, what's going on in the last 72 hours has. >> been really interesting. >> but you would think everybody's nonstop talking about trump. they're not, you know, what everyone's talking. >> about here. >> and last year was crypto. crypto. this year it's maybe 10% crypto 30% trump. it's 60% i. so if you look at the tech community but also the business community, wall. >> street. >> everyone's talking about ai here. >> and to the extent that trump. >> administration there, you know, people listen. business people don't like tariffs. tariffs are tax hikes period end stop. >> bad idea. >> from where 95% of business leaders sit. >> but there's. >> also, you know less

regulation coming. and there's a chance to change. >> things and. >> make money. >> and you're. seeing people lean. >> into that. so there's actually a lot of a lot of optimism. >> and buoyancy. >> that the vibe in. >> terms of a chance to really leapfrog, in terms of making progress in some areas with ai, first and foremost. >> mark forbes editor in chief randall lane, look forward to talking to you in the coming days. we've got. some 50 over 50 global announcements to make, as well as a 3050 summit to announce some major names, some of which you may be with their u.s. national editor for the financial times, ed luce. thank you as well. we'll be reading your new piece, which is online now. and coming up, we'll take a closer look at some of the executive orders donald trump signed on his first day in office. steve rattner standing by at the southwest wall to break down the potential impact these actions could have on our economy and environment. morning economy and environment. morning joe will be right back.

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slew. >> of. >> executive actions. >> underscoring his intent. >> to promote fossil fuels and roll back america's progress on climate. >> change and. >> clean energy.

>> let's bring in former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst steve rattner. >> and as. >> los angeles burns. steve, tell us about it. yeah. >> mika, it's really quite extraordinary the number of things. >> he's done. >> but let's start with. >> drill, baby. >> drill. >> what trump is talking. >> about in terms. >> of really. ramping up. >> our oil. >> and gas production. >> and. >> he also. >> declared a national. >> energy emergency. but it's really perplexing as to why he. >> called for. >> a national. >> energy emergency. >> given that. >> we are actually producing. >> oil and gas. >> at record amounts. we have gone from. >> being a. >> significant importer. of oil in particular, as everybody knows, briefly. >> became an exporter. >> during covid. >> but that was covid related. but then under biden, we've become a bigger. exporter of oil and. gas than we. >> have ever been before in our history. >> and so. >> who knows where this whole idea of a national energy emergency. and drill baby drill comes from. but at the same time. >> he has. >> also pulled us out of the. >> paris climate accord.

>> and this is. >> a really big. >> deal, because. >> obviously. as things like. >> los angeles demonstrate, we. >> have to address. >> our impact. >> on the climate and global warming. in 2018, we were pretty much on a flatline. trajectory in terms of not. >> increasing but not decreasing. >> our emissions, but a whole bunch of stuff that happened since then the inflation reduction act, limits on tailpipe emissions, the emphasis on renewable energy had put us on an extraordinary path down, really, to almost meet the targets that have been set for our our energy emissions. rolling this back probably puts us more back to here. and so instead of helping the world's climate problem, we go back to hurting it at a time when, as we can see, the planet is literally burning up. >> of course, steve, this is the second time that donald trump has pulled us out of the paris climate agreement. he pulled us out of his first term. joe biden put us back in. >> and now, yet again. >> the united states has departed. >> but this is all just. >> that's just one. >> of the ways. >> that climate. >> change, perhaps. being

exacerbated by what donald trump. >> is doing. he's also taking aim at electric vehicle incentives, dismantling them. >> talk to us. why that's important. >> yeah. >> so about. >> half of the. >> fuel that we use of. >> the gasoline we use in this country is for cars. and so reducing the amount of gasoline that we use is a critical part of reducing our energy usage and climate. and he is pulling back on our subsidies that were put in place as part of the inflation reduction act, at a time when america is actually lagging the world in terms of our adoption of electric vehicles. china, maybe surprisingly, maybe not to people, is. actually the leader over 40% now, a little bit less than 40% last year of all the cars and vehicles. sold in china were electric. even europe, at about 20%, is way ahead of us. we're down here at 10%. and so obviously pulling back on the incentives and the other restrictions on gasoline powered vehicles, it does nothing to help us. now, one, one person who might be helped by all this is elon musk. so tesla had about

a 75% share of electric vehicles, electric cars sold in this country. that's not unusual. they were the first mover. they had a great product. he did really well. the share has been coming down again. that's probably a natural effect of all the other car companies coming into. >> the electric vehicle business. >> but musk himself is on record as saying that pulling back these subsidies is actually good for him, because his customers are stickier and they're more. likely to keep buying these cars, and his share will go up. and one little interesting fact the stock market agrees with musk. since the election, tesla stock. >> is up. >> 67%, which is one that brings it to a $1.3 trillion market value. general motors, by comparison, has a $60 billion market value. >> and steve, take us to your third chart now, which are two early trump priorities. >> first, the. border and. >> the second, taking. aim at the federal workforce. >> yeah. so let's talk about two other things that he's been doing. >> obviously, the. >> border is you guys have already. talked about is front

and center on trump's mind. but what's interesting is that if you go back to the first trump term, he actually released an average of. about 30,000 undocumented immigrants a year who crossed the border but had been either. charged or convicted of crimes back in their home country. and so you can see that and this includes, by the way, 309 people who were either charged or convicted of murder. he released them into the country. but and that that was a reaction, actually to an obama policy. obama had prioritized this trump deprioritized it in favor of things like family separation and other other policies. biden turned that around. and you can see here how much the number of people who are charged or were charged or convicted. >> of. >> crimes back home got released in the country. so trump's record in the first term is really quite extraordinary compared to what happened under biden. let's talk about another issue, which is the federal workforce. he's already put a 90 day freeze on hiring in the federal government, taking a

bunch of other steps that were aware of to try to what he calls rein in the federal workforce. but what is it? we're reining in the federal civilian workforce, which is just under 2.3 million people, has actually grown very slowly. it's only up by 1% by 100,000, about 4% all the way back to 1981. at the time of ronald reagan, the us population is up 30%. and what's also interesting to note, and by the way, these little spikes are census hiring. but what's interesting to note is that the biggest reduction in the federal workforce actually came under clinton in the 90s. and in fact, the increases in the federal workforce have all come under republicans from from reagan, bush to g.w. bush and then to trump himself, actually increased the federal workforce during his first term. >> morning joe economic analyst. >> steve rattner. >> with jared, thank you. >> very much for coming on this morning. >> it is. >> exactly the. top of the hour, and that's the way. >> i like it.

>> well done. >> yep. >> we continue with the news just days into donald trump's second term, the president is. facing backlash for his sweeping pardons of january 6th rioters and actions to overhaul the country's immigration system. nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander has. >> the latest there. >> the haunting images of the armed assault on the capitol four years ago that resulted in more than 100 convictions. one of the most prominent enrique tarrio, head of the far right proud boys who was found guilty of seditious conspiracy seen at miami airport after his release under president trump's sweeping pardons. tarrio earlier with this ominous warning. >> i'm happy. >> that the president is focusing. >> not on. >> retribution and focusing on success. >> but i will. >> tell you that i'm not going to play. >> by those rules. >> the people who did this. >> they need. >> to feel. >> the heat. >> republican lisa murkowski, rebuking the decision to pardon violent offenders. >> you just blanket pardon all of them without consequence. i

think that that sends a horrible message to our law enforcement officers. >> spotted inside the capitol, stewart rhodes, head of the far right. extremist group the oath keepers, who was just released after serving. >> less. >> than two years of an 18 year sentence for directing his members during the riot. the federal judge at rhodes's 2023 sentencing warning the moment you are released, whenever that may be, you'll be ready to take up arms against your government. retired capitol police sergeant aquilino gonell was one of the officers injured, telling nbc news it's a betrayal. they were doing the fighting on his behalf. that's the only reason he pardoned them. president trump telling us he strongly backs police. >> i am the friend of police, more than any president that's ever been in this office. >> we pressed him the vice president, j.d. vance. he said, if this is a week ago, he said, if you committed violence on january 6th, obviously you should not be pardoned. why is your vice president wrong? >> well, only for one reason.

they they've served years in jail. >> president trump also taking new action to secure the southern border. the white house announcing the deployment of 1500 active duty military and national guard troops and the suspension of all migrant border crossings, including blocking asylum seekers from entering the u.s. >> our thanks. >> to nbc's peter alexander for his reporting. and joining the conversation this hour. we have u.s. special correspondent. >> for bbc. >> news, katty kay. >> msnbc political. >> analyst elise jordan. >> she's a former aide to the george w bush white house and state department and former white house director of communications to president obama, jen palmieri. she recently served as a senior adviser for the harris presidential. >> campaign. >> working specifically with second gentleman doug emhoff, jonathan lemire and mara gaye. still with us as well. and you wanted to say something. >> about doug. >> i mean, america lost out on not having kamala harris. >> as. >> president. >> but we. >> really missed out on not. >> having first. >> doug.

>> can i tell you, like, we in the, you know, in the week or. >> so before the election when. >> you know, we thought we were going to win, i said. >> you know, get ready america. >> because he's. a you know, i mean, you saw. >> yesterday when her at the. inaugural when he like. >> stood up for. >> his wife by not shaking the hand. >> of. >> senator fisher's. >> husband. >> who would not. >> shake. >> the. hand of his wife. >> you know, he's. >> a he's. >> a jersey guy. >> that stands. >> by his. >> values and is. >> just a delight. so it. was we had it was, you know, it was a tough go. but we. >> got a friend for life there. it's a really good guy. >> okay, well let's pull back. >> 20,000ft. >> as we look at. >> these pardons, many call it the ultimate betrayal, pardoning people who violently attacked cops, protecting our capital. at the same time, president trump campaigned on this. so i'm wondering what you think the overall strategy pivot, change in direction for democrats. >> should be. >> i mean, this time is different. than when this happened eight. >> years ago. >> because when. >> trump won in.

>> 16, it was a surprise. >> there was, you. >> know. >> there. >> was was. >> the. >> border, there was the muslim ban. but we didn't. really have. >> a sense of what he was hired to do other than sort. >> of blow things up. and we know what he was. hired to do this time. he was hired to lower. >> prices and deal with. >> the border. >> and anything that does. >> not accomplish those things. >> particularly lowering prices. >> i think the democrats. >> have to zero in on that. leader jeffries. >> in the house. >> i think is. particularly has been particularly strong. >> about this. >> and with. >> the with the pardons. >> it is it's dangerous. >> it's lawless. >> and it's not. >> you were hired. i thought on day one prices. >> were going to go down. i thought on. >> day one. >> the. >> ukrainian war. >> was going. >> to end. and none of these things are, you know, when you're talking. >> about invading. >> greenland. >> how is that. >> helping people? >> how is that lowering prices? >> and but. >> also in the. >> eight. >> years. >> even as good of a job. >> as president. >> biden did. >> there is a lack. >> of credibility. >> that democrats. >> have with working class understanding. >> how deep. >> the problem is of, you know, wage inequality. >> and you got to talk about that. >> you got to go deep and say, people are. >> angry and i. >> know why it's not.

>> working, and here's. >> what. >> we would. >> do to. >> fix it. >> but i. >> do think. >> as lost as democrats. >> have sort. >> of felt in. >> the. >> last two months, it's pretty clear what. >> to do because we know. >> what he was hired. >> to do this. >> time and he's not. and these actions that. >> he's. >> been taking are not. doing it. >> joe and elise, you you obviously have spent so much time with focus groups over the past several years, and i think it bears repeating what you've heard through the years. people discount the shock and awe from donald trump and people who voted for him. really, they can say what they want to say now to pollsters. they can't be shocked by what he did with the january 6th rioters because they discounted so many things that he said during the campaign. and i'm wondering if you agree with jen. at the end of the day, it's prices. it's securing the

southern border. it's 2 or 3 basic. >> things. >> and it just seems voters, they block out all all the other shock and awe actions, even those that are are so many of us think are absolutely horrendous. >> joe, voters see action. >> right now. they might. see the nastiness. of pardoning violent. >> protesters. but aside from that, they see. >> trump making forward motion. >> they see executive orders going through. they see him taking strong action at the border. that increases the perception. that it's not. >> going to be as easy. >> to cross over. >> it's the economy. >> if you look at the stock market, it's doing. incredibly well just this month. and it has been, frankly, since his election. and so. >> for now. >> he's in a great grace. period where. it might not. >> get any better for. >> this, his entire presidency. but as long. >> as he's, you know, voters. >> see. forward motion, that's a

benefit for him. >> yeah. and of course, trump also inherited a very strong hand here with the. >> economy, the numbers the border were already. >> going down. >> you know. >> he takes. >> even on the. >> world stage. >> he comes in in a moment where in. >> the. >> gaza there was a brink. >> of. >> a cease fire. you know, ukraine and russia, there's at. >> least some suggestion. >> that. >> this will. >> be the. >> year they. >> get to the negotiating table. but, you know, it occurs to me that part of the point. >> is this just absolute. >> flurry of action. it is the shock and awe that trump is just. >> filling the space. >> he's doing multiple news conferences. >> a day. >> it's executive order after executive order. >> a lot. >> of it the noise. our job on this show is to get to the signal, not. >> just the noise. >> we've been establishing that. >> as. >> sort of a mission. >> statement. >> but for your. >> average voter, they. just see what. >> donald. trump's doing, stuff he must be doing things. that are good for me. and that's going to make it challenging, i think, for democrats. weigh in on this, please, as to what they can focus on. i think lowering prices. his signature promise probably is it, but it's going to have to sift through a lot of his theatrics. >> to. >> get there. >> yeah. >> i've. >> been speaking to a lot of

democrats over the last. >> few days who say. >> we've done a. >> very good job, kind. >> of a postmortem of the election and what. >> we failed. >> to do and the groups. >> we failed. >> to. >> reach. >> but we. >> haven't really. >> done an adequate job yet of how to counter. >> donald trump. >> part of it is that on things like the border, they feel they got it wrong in november, and that if they had acted on the border sooner, being tougher on the border, in their words and in. >> their. >> actions, then perhaps they wouldn't be in the position of having lost the election. and so they don't. really know how to counter donald trump on some of the border issues. one constitutional lawyer i spoke to. just a couple of days ago. >> did say. >> that this incredible flurry of executive. actions in the end, could hurt this administration, because if some of these get to the supreme court and it looks like this is part of a movement of presidential overreach rather than individual considered executive actions to make america stronger and safer, then that could actually hurt donald trump's case before the supreme court, because they may just see this as a power grab. >> all right. some reddit users

are now boycotting the social. media site x. it's in response to a gesture elon musk made. he owns the platform during donald trump's inauguration on monday. some saw the gesture to be extremely similar to, to or exactly like a nazi salute, though musk denies the allegation. now, several reddit groups dedicated to a wide range of interests, from formula one to board. influence, and the second trump administration has been on full display. but that doesn't mean the president isn't willing to cozy up with other billionaires who also want to do business with the federal government, even if it rubs musk the wrong way. that's what happened earlier this week when trump announced an investment pact with tech giant openai. musk immediately went on social media

to undercut the agreement and to attack the company's co-founder, sam altman. as axios notes, it was a striking development to see musk openly questioning a deal that his ally, the president, had publicly trumpeted. and joe. i mean, i think that's an interesting exercise lesson for anybody who's, you know, getting into the inner circle, it you know, power is fungible. >> well, it moves all around. and jonathan lemire, it was it was very deliberate. i mean, sam altman is a11 of elon musk's biggest rivals, if not his biggest rival, especially on ai. there have been stories after stories written about these two and how musk was going to try to elbow altman out. that obviously didn't happen. and then, you know, i had actually heard from some reddit users yesterday about what the new york times is

reporting on, that several reddit users actually are cutting off links with acts because of, of this motion that that elon musk said didn't look like a nazi salute, but certainly looked like a nazi salute to a lot of people, not only on reddit, but also across the media landscape. and i would guess, most americans, you know, most americans looking at that again, whether whether they're disturbed, they should be disturbed. but most americans looking at that, you know, probably would agree with, with with reddit users. joe scarborough, reddit. >> user i'm sorry, that's the headline, although i think it's the red sox wrote about why aren't they spending more money? i didn't, i. >> didn't, i didn't say i was a reddit user. i have sons that in the middle of the game will start grading players. i go, wait, wait wait wait, the game still going on here? how about it? and yeah, it's just a steady stream. you can guess. like

we're not. we're not in the nuclear physics section of reddit. it's the red sox, the crimson tide. yeah, exactly. >> there you go. no, that makes a lot of sense. but your point about musk is, is a is a good one here. and i think we can say that his scorecard he's one for two. this week he pushed out vivek ramaswamy. you know ramaswamy had sort of had alienated a lot of the maga base with his christmas day thread. we talked about this about he sort of challenged the work ethic of the american worker that alienated the maga base. musk and he also weren't really getting along. musk didn't want to share the power there. he's gone. musk is working, been working from a west wing office this week that that matters, i've been told. but at the same time, jen, he did lose this one, at least the sam altman thing. and it was striking. we talked about this on the show yesterday. sam altman standing behind the presidential podium for a few minutes there during this announcement with trump earlier this week, and musk's continuing to snipe at him from a distance. and early this morning, altman returned fire. so that feud is alive and well right now. donald trump seems okay with it. he likes being

surrounded by these rich and powerful people. he and musk still seem pretty close. that's what i've been told. but at a certain point, a certain point that's got to get under his skin. >> and it's also it's got to get under trump's skin that musk, that musk. because, you know, well, first of all, i don't know a lot about ai. and but that seems like a big deal. maybe it's important. maybe it's going to help people eventually. i don't know. it's certainly not going to lower prices, you know. so that's something i would be pointing out if i were on the hill, a democrat on the hill. but like all we're hearing about it, even if it is a worthy deal, is to billionaire corporation, you know, two ceos who gave who both gave, you know, sam altman gave $1 million to the inaugural. musk gave hundreds of millions of dollars to trump. and what we see is these two guys fighting, you know, having having this this argument over social media about each other and like, how is that good for trump? how is that helpful? how is that portraying to the american people that like, he is

focused on on them. and i think, you know, we'll see how this plays out over the next few weeks. but i don't know about this this whole new look of him with, you know, the tech oligarchy behind him being behind him. it's a shadow cabinet of oligarchs. yeah, it's i don't i don't know how that plays out. well, in the, in the long term. and these, you know, you can't rely on these folks to stick with you, to stick with trump when, when it gets tough. it's all very transactional. and that seems fragile. >> yeah. no no question that it's deeply transactional. we all talked about how a clue to power in washington is the seating chart, which for most people is this very mundane like seating chart. but in dc it really matters. and in the inauguration, these tech billionaires were all seated ahead of the cabinet there on on the dais. and certainly ai is the forefront here. there's a lot of money being spent around the globe. we just heard from davos about. it's like the number one topic of discussion. so certainly the trump

administration needs to come in with some sort of policy here. but there's also divides about related to how these tech oligarchs relationship with the maga base, because the maga base wants that done here at home. i don't know that elon musk and sam altman, they want they don't want things to be done overseas where it can be cheaper. >> well, again, there's a disconnect between this cabinet of oligarchs, so to speak, and what the base actually voted for. and so if you are a democrat on the hill, you've got to be asking donald trump the question, remind, remind us, how does elon musk's seat in the white house affect prices at the grocery store? remind us, how is he going to keep americans safe? so that is kind of the question that should be, i think, posed to donald trump, who has made very clear that he wants these people to be at the at the table of power. and i don't understand how that's going to help everyday americans who are living very different lives than

those at davos. so i don't know that that's breaking through. i don't know how much kind of sussing there is of these oligarchs on fox news or in kind of social media worlds of everyday trump voters. but that's kind of the question, how do you get that message that donald trump isn't working for you? he's working for these oligarchs, joe. >> well, i mean, that is actually that is a battle that's that has been raging. we've seen it raging. steve bannon, of course, talking about the maga base and going head to head in this sort of maga battle with, with elon musk and mika i the question i have is and there's no evidence that that elon musk is being pushed aside now or any time in the near future. but the question is, how many distractions will donald trump

put up with before he says enough? let's let's remember in that battle, i won't repeat what elon musk called working americans and. but he he was just very denigrating to working americans. and the maga base. and so you had that battle between the oligarch and the maga base, the people who elected donald trump. and then you have this, this, this, this scene the other night that the new york times is reporting on, and we're seeing the impact on reddit and, and other places again, is that is that going to move poll numbers? no, probably not. but again, at some point, people that know donald trump, reporters that have been reporting on him for a decade will say there are few things he hates more than then. then

distractions brought about by bad press clips from people around him. and i'm just curious how many bad press clips, how many insults to his projects, how many distracting actions coming from an oligarch is he going to put up with before he goes, you know what, i'm going to substitute that oligarch for three other oligarchs who aren't constantly looking to make headlines through shock and awe tactics. that's that's really the question in the coming months about that relationship. >> so still ahead on morning joe, the latest out of southern california where fire crews are battling yet another new blaze this morning. plus, president trump issued a sweeping new executive actions meant to end diversity and inclusion initiatives within the federal government. we'll talk to the president and ceo of the national urban league, marc morial, about the impact of that

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americans across the country are waking up this morning to another day of extreme conditions. we have two reports for you. first, on the freezing temperatures, icing over the east and gulf coast, and then an update on the situation in southern california still being scorched by wildfires. >> a once in a lifetime southern storm causing chaos across the region. in georgia, icy roads creating treacherous driving conditions and causing this 20 car pileup on a slick hill. another road so impassable many people abandon their vehicles. in alabama, an early start on planned demolition for the mobile civic center, as the entire roof came crashing down under the weight of the snow canal and bourbon streets in new orleans, completely covered in ice. >> we're out here, you know, slipping and sliding. >> the city saw at least eight inches of snow, tripling its previous all time high more than

60 years ago. tens of thousands in georgia and florida are still without power after the winter storm. also blamed for four deaths across multiple states. three major bridges in jacksonville, florida, closed due to multiple crashes and icy concerns, and hundreds of flights canceled and delayed across the region, causing long lines at atlanta's hartsfield jackson international airport. >> it's moving very slowly. it's like nothing i've ever seen before. >> well, the new orleans airport looked like a ghost town. aerial views of new york city showing sheets of ice floating on the hudson river, while snow also blanketed the coastline of the carolinas. >> not supposed to snow at the beach. >> out west, the same arctic air mass plunging temperatures into the negatives in wyoming frigid enough to freeze one woman's wet hair in just seconds while back in the south. many agree cold has quickly worn out its welcome. how ready are you for this all to melt? >> i'm ready. we packed warmly.

we just didn't know there'd be eight inches of snow this morning. >> the all too familiar glow of flames quickly spreading over huge swaths of land just north of burn scarred los angeles, and a new brushfire popping up overnight in the city near the famed getty center, sparking evacuation warnings as strong winds fanned the flames of the huge fire, which consumed more than 10,000 acres in just a matter of hours and officials say has been very difficult to contain. >> the weather is what's predominantly driving this fire, and it's spread right now. >> this is a fast moving fire. it's been growing acres by the minute. you can see the flames here. they've been coming down the hillside. it is all driven by these strong winds. and this is what officials have been warning about and worried about all week. massive plumes of smoke turning the sky, black homes, a detention center and schools in the town of castaic evacuated. how worried are you. >> about all this? >> very obviously. >> we've never had to go to this

extent to protect ourselves, this fire. >> students in the middle of the school day, forced to flee to safety. others preparing to evacuate but staying as long as they can to protect their homes and property. as nearby los angeles is still reeling from the massive wildfires earlier this month that killed 27 people and left entire neighborhoods devastated. now, firefighters getting back in the air and on the ground to battle the new blazes. >> all right, that was liz creutz and jorge solis with those reports back in washington, federal employees who work in diversity, equity and inclusion and accessibility positions are now on paid leave. nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez explains this sweeping move by president trump. >> from the government agencies that oversee air travel to public health to criminal justice. the debate over diversity is exploding throughout the country, making good on a campaign promise. president trump is slashing all

diversity, equity and inclusion programs across the federal government. >> we will forge a society that is colorblind and merit based. >> the president signing an executive order on his first day back in the white house. >> this is a big deal. merit. our country is going to be based on merit. again. can you can you believe it? >> and overnight, this new government memo saying dni policies result in shameful discrimination and directing federal agencies to place all dni employees on paid leave by this evening, after the murder of george floyd and the social justice movement it sparked in 2020, dni programs flourished across private companies and the federal government. >> the values of diversity, equity and inclusion are the core strength of america. >> but since then, conservative activists have railed against the programs, and after trump's reelection, major companies like walmart, mcdonald's and meta, facebook's parent company, have scrapped their dei programs.

>> it's one thing to say we want to be kind of like welcoming and make a good environment for everyone, and i think it's another to basically say that masculinity is bad. >> one of the president's executive orders directs the attorney general to submit recommendations for enforcing federal civil rights laws, to encourage the private sector to end dei. another revokes an executive order signed by president lyndon johnson in 1965 that the trump administration says mandated affirmative action. the congressional black caucus calling trump's changes an attempt to take our country backward. >> diversity, equity and inclusion programs is really teaching us how to all work together in a positive way for a common goal. >> former facebook employee barry williams helped create one of the company's canceled diversity initiatives. >> people think that that equates to lowering the bar. it isn't lowering the bar, it's casting a wider net. >> diversity organizations and civil rights leaders gathered yesterday in response to these new orders, holding a roundtable

event at the national press club highlighting what they call the dangerous rollback of hard fought civil rights gains. joining us now, the president and ceo of the national urban league, marc morial. he led and moderated yesterday's event. so what was the response to the rollback and what's the plan moving forward? >> good morning. the response to the rollback is that the leaders there are unified in saying, we will resist and we will pay any price, bear any burden, support any friend or oppose any foe to ensure that equal opportunity continues to be the value proposition and the law of the land. this is an attack on the last 70 years. this is an attack on a majority of americans who want to be included in the economic mainstream. make no mistake about it. there's also an element, as somebody asked me

yesterday, of political retribution and payback to those communities that may not have been supporters of the current administration and the new president. so we will resist what's on the table, how to leverage our consumer power, 5 trillion plus from all of the communities represented yesterday, how to think about litigation has already been a number of lawsuits that have been filed on the theory that the president cannot, by executive action, wipe out the civil rights act of 1964, wipe out court decisions that have interpreted that act, and wipe out the commitment that this nation has had to equal opportunity. so we want those who've who've aligned with us in congress to certainly understand that we want those in the business community to understand the consumer power and the incredible potential of all of the communities that simply want to be included in the mainstream of america. and let me address this mythology about merit. what

denny says is give everyone with merit a chance. and i'll say this, mika, 81% of americans support what i'm talking about. that's a harris poll from last year. so this is really a majoritarian move to protect equal opportunity. you could call it dni, you could call it inclusion. it is not about discrimination. it's about the eradication of historic discrimination. >> mark, there is so much evidence now and data suggesting that more diverse leadership terms teams produce better results. we know that, right? i know that because i do a lot of work on women in leadership. you know that from your perspective as well. are you dismayed when you see how quickly american corporations, those major corporations, mcdonald's, walmart are matter, of course, are following donald trump's lead? and what will it mean for the us economy if they do so?

>> well? i'm dismayed. i'm disappointed, and i've expressed that to a number of executives. but i also want to lift up the large number of executives who've also shared with me that they remain committed. they will not be intimidated now. they're not in the headlines. many of them don't. but let me encourage you to take a look at what jamie dimon said at davos. he said, we're going to continue to reach out to black, hispanic, asian lgbtq communities because it's good for my business. >> it's a bottom line. >> issue and it's a bottom line issue. and the size and the growth and the consumer power of many of these communities is what i would encourage american business to think about. >> memorial. there was a. >> sense that from the election that dei issues hurt democrats, that there's a sense that that at least a narrative that this was a, that this is an issue for voters. and no, congressman richie torres was on this show recently and said, you know, nobody talks to him, comes up

and says, i'm really worried about dei issues like, how do you beat back the sense that this, that, that celebrating diversity, casting a wide net as, as the programs are rightfully described is a is some sort of detriment to democrats. >> hurts the democrats with who hurts the democrats with who? the issue is to not get caught in the nomenclature of dni, but to talk about american values and democrats need to do a better job talking about inclusion, equal opportunity as an american value from the founding of this country. the concept of e pluribus unum equal justice under the law emblazoned on the supreme court the civil rights act of 1964, opening the doors to women and other people of color to be included in the economic mainstream. you got to get your messaging straight and not get caught in nomenclature.

republicans have been good in attacking terminology. democrats need to get their act together when it comes to advancing values and having people understand what these values really, really mean. i had an opportunity to go to some of the very best schools in america the ivy league, georgetown university law center, because those schools did recruit me, and historically they had not recruited me. did i have merit? i was a great student and got out of those schools with good marks and have had a great and successful career. i'm an example, and there are many who because quote unquote, equal opportunity open doors got a chance to achieve. that's what we're talking about. give everyone with merit and business leaders democrats. and i would hope that republicans would return to where they were under george w bush with the great everett dirksen, if you will,

working with president johnson to pass the civil rights act of 1964. this idea that civil rights is a partizan and a political issue is offensive, it's inconsistent with history. and we got to turn the page on that, because all of these communities hold the economic future of america. and the sooner we recognize that that's what the evidence shows, the better off we're going to be as a nation. so i just want everyone to know we're going to passionately resist, because we must and we're going to try to convince the american people. here's what i'd say to you about, quote unquote, losing the election. 81% of people in the harris poll say they support the idea of diversity, equity and inclusion. when you talk about it as ensuring that government and the private sector look like america, that's what we need to be talking about. >> president and ceo of the national urban league, marc morial, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning.

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and even weather reporters on edge. >> john, you know, we've seen our fair share. look, look, there's somebody peeling out. watch out, watch out! john. see, this is something we encourage people not to do. i don't know how cool that guy thinks he is. i wish that lafayette police officer would roll up on him and shut that down. hey, man, can you turn your lights on and shut that down? unbelievable, bro. like, so that's the kind of stuff we don't love to do. which is why acadiana, at times you wonder why we may be standing in certain spots. just just not just not it, bro. you know, john's got a family. i got a family. we're all just trying to do our job. bringing you up to date. that was whack. i know my boy thought he was cool, but i ain't rocking with it. super lame. anyway, let me chill out. i went, boy, i tell you what, john, that got me hot, bro. that got me hot, baby. i wish you would roll back over here, man. we'll show em what's happening. i'm just kidding. anyway. acadiana, please be safe. >> we. can. we get a therapist

to the corner of evangeline thruway and surry street? because we got a time bomb waiting to blow there. >> no, actually, a star is born. that guy was amazing. he was totally himself. i love it, but it does seem like there are a lot of reasons to be a little stressed out these days. and it might be about the weather, climate change, and also maybe the election. a false report from the american psychological association found that americans were deeply concerned about the consequences of the 2024 election, with 70% of u.s. adults pointing to the presidential election as a significant source of stress. and for many americans, the bad feelings have persisted and in some cases, grown in the time since donald trump won back the presidency. but our next guest says it's normal to feel a sense of shock or sadness in the aftermath of an election that didn't go your way. joining us now, professor at the harvard, kennedy and business schools,

arthur brooks. he's written 13 books, most with a focus on finding happiness and meaning in life. well, it's good to have you back on the show. >> good morning to you. how are you? >> good. so what are you thinking about this? i mean, there, especially with these survey results. how can people process perhaps the feelings that they are having at this moment? >> well, people are having a lot of negative reactions to it and doing a lot of counterproductive things like ruminating on the election. how could it have turned out differently, personalizing the election, catastrophizing the election. the truth is, if we look at it just in historical terms, if you didn't like what happened in november, your time will come soon enough. i mean, these things just go back and forth and soon enough you'll be feeling victorious and the other side will be down in the dumps. this is really a much bigger opportunity for us to reflect on one of the why it is that happiness in the united states has been ticking down over the past 30 years. a big part of it is that we're actually not tending to our happiness, hygiene, the habits in our in our local communities, in our in

our families and the people around us. we're paying too much attention to what's going on far away. if you pay attention and personalize things that are far away from you will be unto you. if you pay attention to what's close to you, you have an opportunity to change things in a way that it will, that will, that will enrich your life. and this is what i'm telling people all the time. remember what matters. what matters is not what you're seeing on tv. watch less tv except morning joe. yeah, it's important. and what matters? your faith, your family life, your friendships, the meaning that you get through the work that you, that you do every day to earn your daily bread. these are the things that really matter. and when we when we lose track of this and we're paying attention to the national elections, well, of course we're getting depressed no matter what. they're trying to make us depressed and angry and fire us up. that's how you get eyeballs and viewers and votes and followers and we're the product. >> well, let me ask you, though, because there certainly seems to be it's well chronicled that this time around, you know,

people who did not vote for donald trump have seemed like checked out. we've seen that in terms of viewership. we've seen that in terms of social media engagement, newspaper subscriptions, lots of metrics that suggest that. and but is that what you endorse? like pretend that it's not happening like check out, but that that also leads to potentially a dangerous lack of civic engagement? >> yeah. one of the biggest problems that we have today, however, and this is a phenomenon that we've seen over the past ten years, is that people who would have been involved as good citizens in their local communities, volunteering, paying attention, getting involved in local politics, are substituting a new kind of behavior, which is being as informed as possible about national politics. being outraged at the tv at prime time. talking about politics is not a substitute for citizenship. it just isn't. and good citizenship is a responsibility of all of us. and by the way, brings happiness. but just paying attention and being outraged is not citizenship and will not bring happiness. i'm not talking about checking out. i'm talking about checking in to what really matters and getting involved in the things that you can affect. >> arthur, i first encountered

you when you were the president of american enterprise institute, one of the most powerful think tanks in the world. >> i like to think so. >> yes, exactly. and so that was such a hard charging political job. definitely had, you know, a component to it that is so different, dramatically different from what you're doing now. how did you just switch off and turn to this zen arthur brooks? >> yeah, i've done this a bunch of times. i mean, early on the first 12 years of my career, i was a professional classical french horn player in the barcelona orchestra, believe it or not. and then i left and went to college and got my phd and became a behavioral scientist. and then i quit that and then went and ran a think tank for 11 years. and then i came back to becoming a scientist. and what happened was i actually had an experience that i come into a lot of people, when you're thinking about making a change in your life, this is a process called discernment. and almost every religious tradition. i walked the camino de santiago, which is this 800 kilometer walk across northern spain, to discern what i wanted to do with the rest of my life. and i

found, as i was thinking and praying, that i wanted to dedicate the rest of my life to lifting people up and bringing them together in bonds of happiness and love, using science and ideas. so i returned to my science roots. i went to harvard, i started a laboratory in leadership and happiness. and that's what i write, speak, and teach about now. i talk about politics all the time, but i don't talk about how to win. i talk about how to love and how your political alignments and how your statements and how you can get involved, how it can enhance your life and enhance the lives of other people as well. >> what do you think? and so what? you don't want to completely tune out to what happened on the national level? no. so what do you how do you tell people to strike some kind of balance? >> hygiene. >> okay. so let's. >> just. >> let's just be really practical. >> yeah. we need some. >> data points. >> we need. >> a plan. >> so the way to be very practical about this is not do it all day long. what's happening is that you're actually affecting the neurochemistry. and inside your head you're affecting the dopamine in your brain. you're going for a little hit. what's new? what can i learn? what will give me some satisfaction? it's

like hitting a slot machine over and over again, or eating a brownie every half hour, or all of the destructive behaviors that actually are bad for us. and so what i recommend is, okay, you want to be informed, you want to read political news, you want to watch political news. fine. one period during the day, during a very, very particular time. and don't look at it at all. on social media. get up. to 10 a.m, 6 to 10 a.m. the entire four hours. >> katty kay right here. >> katty kay i'm loving this happy love bubble up in new york. and maybe it's because i'm sitting in washington about 100 yards away from capitol hill, but i'm struggling down here, arthur. and look, particularly in this world, it's of this i mean, you just mentioned it there, but social media seems designed to make us less happy. yeah. and designed to make us love each other less social media. >> well, social media is designed to addict us, not to make us less happy. one of the side effects is it makes us less happy. the reason it makes us less happy, by the way, besides just addicting us and distracting us is that it makes us, makes it impossible for us

to access a part of our brain called the default mode network. this is the structures in our brain that we use when we're thinking about nothing, or we're bored, or our mind is wandering, and we need those structures for us to find meaning. so here's the problem. if you're being distracted all the time, every single second, you pull the thing out of your pocket and you look at it, you never access this part of your brain. you stop thinking about issues of meaning. you start substituting what you see on the phone and on social media for the big questions of meaning in your life, and you get less unhappy. it's just a one, two, three phenomenon. nobody's trying to make you miserable. they're trying to make you well. they're trying to make themselves rich. they're trying to get your eyeballs in every single second of your attention when you give it to them. that's when meaning is sucked out of your life. it's sapped from you. by the way, this is the number one reason for the mental health crisis for people under 30 today, because they've never even grown up in a time where they didn't have the distraction device. they didn't have this growing up, thank god. i mean, i had no social media, i had no dating apps. i had to do everything the old way, and i was bored a lot.

>> you had to learn to be bored. >> i had to learn to be bored, and i had to learn the meaning of my life. and that's exactly what's bereft in the lives of so many young people today who are freaking out. as a result. >> i think we need to do another segment with you on that. yeah, because that's a crisis. >> it's absolutely a crisis for all of us and all of our adult children and the people that we. >> love, our adult children. professor at the harvard kennedy and business school, arthur brooke, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. delighted. we will we will try and follow up next. president trump defends granting blanket pardons to more than 1500 january 6th rioters. a new politico piece details how he may soon come to regret that decision. the author will explain that for us. plus, ranking member of the house judiciary committee, democratic congressman jamie raskin will join the conversation. morning joe will be right back. >> no pun. >> skating for over 45 years has

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(gentle breeze) - [announcer] eyes forward. don't drive distracted. can among those you pardoned dj rodriguez. he drove a stun gun into the neck of a dc police officer who was abducted by the mob that day. he later confessed on video to the fbi and pleaded guilty for his crimes. why does he deserve a pardon? >> well, i don't know. was it a pardon? because we're looking at commutes and we're looking at pardons. okay, well, we'll take a look at everything. >> we'll take a look at everything as.

>> soon as you look at. >> it, before you issue the pardon. it's like step one. release the prisoners. step two. look into which prisoners we should release. nailed it. >> still ahead. we'll play for you. president trump's new comments defending pardons for the january 6th rioters who attacked police officers. plus, cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us with insight on the president's proposed tariffs, which he says could start in ten days. also ahead were moments away from the release of this year's oscar nominations. we'll tell you which films made the tell you which films made the list. mlet's get started. bill, where's your mask? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. but i'm done struggling. now i sleep with inspire. inspire? inspire is a sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body with just the click of this button. a button? no mask? no hose? just sleep. yeah but you need the hose,

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find out how to pre-order and get the new samsung galaxy s25+ on us with a qualifying trade in. call, click or visit an xfinity store today. elevated design for thoughtful living therma. >> is a terrible time and a terrible chapter in america's history. the president has made his decision. i don't second guess those. and yes, you know, it's kind of my ethos, my worldview. we believe in redemption. we believe in second chances. if you could, you would argue that those people didn't pay a heavy penalty having been incarcerated and all of that. that's up to you. but the president has made a decision. we move forward. there are better days ahead of us. that's what we're excited about. we're not looking backwards. we're looking forwards. it was shocking. i mean, it was it was shocking what president biden did on the way out, pardoning his family for more than a decade of whatever activity, any nonviolent offenses. it was it was breathtaking to us. i don't think that's anything like that's ever been anticipated. and by the way, go look at the tape. you know, four years ago when it was just implied that

president trump might do something similar, they were apoplectic. joe biden himself, adam schiff, chuck schumer, roll the tape. they all said that would be crazy and unconscionable. and now they're cheering it along. it's to us. it is disgusting. to us. it probably proves the point. the suspicion that, you know, they call it the biden crime family. if they weren't the crime family, why do they need pardons? right. look, there's a lot of attention that's going to be paid to this, and i think that is appropriate. and we will be looking at it as well. >> all right. just to recap what we saw there for speaker johnson, it's time to move on from president trump's pardons of january 6th rioters. but president biden's pardons deserve more investigation. we're going to bring you the president's new comments defending his clemency for the mob that attacked the capitol, including those who assaulted police officers. we'll also go through the president's threats to sanction russia over the war in ukraine. plus, we'll dig into elon musk undercutting the

president's major investment in ai and his feud with the project's partners. and in sports. philadelphia is gearing up for sunday's big nfl playoff game. but the mayor needs a little work on the team's chant. >> let me hear you all say. e l g. l e s egos. >> yay! >> i like the energy. it's e-a-g-l-e-s, but that's okay. they're excited. it's fun. good morning and welcome to morning joe. >> thanks to you. i mean, it's her cue cards if you need them. >> oh, i would totally do that. >> excited? >> sometimes my mouth is freezing out in the cold. people are looking at me. all right. with us, we have the co-host of the fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics, member of the new york times editorial board. mara gay, managing editor at the bulwark.

sam stein is with us, us national editor at the financial times. ed luce is here and senior writer for the dispatch. david drucker. so, joe, a lot going on, but we kind of need to remain focused here. signal versus noise. >> signal versus noise. and, you know, we just heard christina greer last hour telling ali, we have to be careful to continue to separate what she calls performative acts versus what is actually meaningful change in yesterday. i think that's a that's a great way to frame this, because there are a flurry of things that are out there, including stories that the new york times about how how donald trump, you know, has things in the inauguration that look like thrones. et cetera. et cetera. again, signal versus noise. yesterday, i thought it was so, so helpful. the pod save america guys that came on who were just

absolutely great. i love having them, loved having them on yesterday. but they said at one point he said, well, we have to do is we have to stop telling people about how what donald trump says shocks people and instead talk about how what he does affects people, how it affects their lives. so, yes, signal versus noise. we're going to get to all of that. but i do feel like i we need to go to our editor, her the member of the new york times editorial board and ask her the question when exactly when exactly did the democratic party leave? mayor eric adams with what investigation launched? >> we're just talking about. >> what made him suddenly decide that he was no longer a democrat. this is a this wasn't

exactly a ronald reagan moment, was it, maura? >> oh, yeah. it's interesting because maybe it was the moment when the democratic party refused to look away at allegations of corruption into his administration in the same way that the republican party just allowed donald trump to do whatever he pleased. i guess that's the standard that eric adams is potentially looking for from the democratic party. he has made no secret of his attempt to seek a pardon from the president of the united states. now it is led to a lot of embarrassment, not only for the mayor personally, but among a lot of constituents in this city to democratic town. you know, at the same time, he has a base, some of whom black men, for example, in southeast queens, just one slice of his base. you know who? i've talked

to some of them. and they say, hey, there's a double standard. so we kind of see how the mayor might feel persecuted and maybe we agree, but i think that is a narrow interpretation. and i do believe that depending on how everyday new yorkers experience the next few months of the trump administration, and depending on how adams is competition in the primary perform, he may be up for a serious challenge. >> yeah, and i think we need to go to our daily news alum who who spent much of his early career harassing new york city mayors, even chasing bill de blasio to his daily gym trips in brooklyn. jonathan lemire. >> is super annoying. >> both are daily news alums, right? you're both daily news alums. yeah. so yeah. john, really quickly, i just i'm sorry. it's just too rich. i, i didn't leave the democratic party. the democratic party left

me. i mean, come on. really, has there ever been like a more, more sort of air of corruption around not only the mayor but everybody? everybody. it seems that works for him. >> yeah, there was certainly that wave of indictments and investigations, fbi raids that surrounded adams's inner circle a few months ago. i'll just note many new yorkers still hold those gym trips against bill de blasio, but this has been a such a blatant effort here. from adams to court favor from trump. he attended. he got a middle of the night invitation to the inauguration, skipping mlk day events in new york city so he could drive down to washington at one in the morning and attend that he has been to, to, to, to palm, to mar-a-lago. and yes, there are real, of course, real reasons for the mayor of the nation's largest city to talk to the then president elect. but the speculation it was about a pardon. he did an interview with tucker carlson the other night. he's doing everything he can to move in on, on on trump. he's

withheld criticism of a lot of trump's more controversial policies, but at least to this point, his efforts for pardon may not be working because just yesterday, the interim u.s. attorney appointed by trump until the normal u.s. attorney for the southern district could be appointed, basically dismissed. adams's public claims that the investigation into him was somehow ordered by the biden department of justice because it was revenge, because adams criticized biden's migrant policy. and this attorney, again appointed in an interim basis by donald trump, suggests, no, that's not it. there's a there there. and the constitution is going to continue. >> oh, my. okay. >> of course, all this may lead to ultimately. mika, the return of one andrew cuomo. so there you go. it's going to be an interesting mayor's race. >> all right. our top story this morning, the republican led house has passed the lincoln riley act, a strict immigration detention bill named for a 22 year old georgia nursing, 22

year old georgia nursing student murdered last year by an undocumented immigrant. the legislation targets undocumented individuals who commit crimes and is expected to become the first bill signed into law by president trump in his second term. the house passed the bill to 63 to 156, with 46 democrats joining every republican in support. the senate passed the bill on monday by a vote of 64 to 35, which included 12 democrats, among them senators gary peters, jon ossoff, jeanne shaheen and mark warner, all of whom are up for reelection next year. the act requires ice to take custody of and detain undocumented immigrants who are charged, arrested or convicted of committing acts of burglary, theft, larceny or shoplifting. the venezuelan citizen who was found guilty of kidnaping,

assaulting and murdering riley while she was out for a jog near the university of georgia, was in the u.s. illegally. he had been cited for shoplifting by a georgia police department, but ice did not issue a detainer for him, and he was not taken into custody. so this is one of the first pieces of legislation passed, joe. >> right. and again, this is where we're talking about signal versus noise, performative acts versus actual actions that that, that that are going to be impactful. this is this is obviously david drucker, something that the overwhelming majority of americans support. i think you go all the way up into the 80s. there are some people that that suggest it goes too far. but even that argument you're getting into the old broken windows argument of like, for instance, rudy giuliani and police officers going after, in

some cases shoplifting, that when they go after the smaller crimes, that leads to larger crimes. and, you know, right now in 2025, the overwhelming majority of americans support this act. and it's one of the reasons why, when it passed, it passed with strong bipartisan support. yeah. >> look, if you want to, you know, try and understand one of the reasons why donald trump was sent back. >> to. the white house after, you know, everything that he said and did during his first term and in the aftermath of his first term, you don't have to look any further than how, you know, president biden and the views of so many voters mismanaged border security. and this is just not complicated, joe. right. i mean, some things take political explainers. and, you know, we've got to say, you know, point a to point b to point c, and that that, you know, explains why why things happen. people of all political backgrounds, even if they draw different conclusions on exact policy prescriptions, are probably going to tell you that

if you're in this country illegally and you commit crimes, that shouldn't happen, and the government ought to do something about it, particularly when it becomes an issue of public safety concern for so many voters. and so you saw the political marketplace at work here with democrats in the senate, where this needed 60 votes, participating with republicans to advance this legislation. it was, of course, going to clear the republican house and the number of democrats in the house that voted for this wasn't inconsequential, but it's the senate that really tells you what's happening, where you have democrats up for reelection in 2026 that help make sure this is law. the one thing that i'd add, guys is if the president, the new president, wants to have a real impact on immigration policy, it's going to happen through legislation like this versus executive orders, which are ephemeral, exactly. reversed when the next president takes office, particularly if that president is a democrat. and they take issue with some of the things that the president, current president is doing on immigration. >> all right. and, david, we

actually saw that with joe biden. you know, think about all the executive orders that joe biden signed to reverse what donald trump put into effect. and donald trump spent his first day in office reversing so many of those. i mean, this is so key that that, again, there's a lot of performative actions. over the past several days, there have been some things that we can talk about in a second. there have been some also some some things that are going to have a significant impact on this country. but if you're going to change immigration in particular, unilateral acts are are only going to change things so much. it's legislation like this that actually is going to bend history. >> correct. and president trump actually understands what he's doing this time around. you may disagree with him, but when he came into the presidency the first time, he barely understood how congress works. and i mean that in a very basic level, just

understanding the process, let alone do you get what you want or not. this time, he understands the process. he understands, as presidents before him did, how to exert executive authority. that may be questionable, but presidents are never shy in using every piece of authority that they may or may not have, which stands in so different to congress, which is happy to give power away to the executive and judicial branches. also, i think president trump has more latitude this time. whatever people thought about the border, and there was a huge concern about the border in 2017 as he entered office in that first term, given how things went for most of the biden administration, president trump has more political latitude. i believe in the country to be aggressive in how he brings the border and immigration, both legal and illegal, under control from his perspective. and so i don't think that you're going to see necessarily the same kind of pushback, at least initially, that we saw at times during that

first term. >> you know, ed louis, you've you've written about and we discussed at length last time you were here, joe biden's tragic legacy. of course, there are many points to that. there also. of course, mika will be glad to tell you, as will i. there were also some really great achievements during his his first term, but she'll she'll probably tell us this after i finish this question with you. but one of the sad legacies is the fact that there were some blind spots in the administration, blind spots that you and i, over dinner at times, even two years ago, three years ago. we're talking about blind spots, not only in the biden administration, but also among democrats. one was what was going on on campus even before the protests last year, and another was again the flood of illegal immigrants over the southern border. and just something that neither joe biden nor the democratic party as a

whole got their arms around. and it did. illegal immigration hasn't been an issue that has changed presidential races in the past, but boy, it sure did this time, didn't it? >> yeah. >> it sure did. i mean, i think back to the 2019, 2020 democratic primaries and that sort of competitive amongst the candidates, the candidates for the democratic nomination, the competing to see who could scream open border more loudly than others. i think beto o'rourke, people like that. and biden, you know, biden was on that stage. he was actually the moderate on that stage. it wasn't calling for open borders, but ■it captured the spirit of a party that i think had lost all touch with american public opinion, with the median voter on that issue. and yes, during the early biden years, partly because the pandemic ended, there was a surge of immigration. there were also changes to regulations that made

it easier for them to come through with or without a pandemic. but that ended by the end of the biden term. we've had illegal immigration drop very, very sharply. it's a really eccentric precipitously for president trump to be declaring a national emergency. i think he's devaluing the word emergency. he's talking about an energy emergency, a crime emergency, a border emergency on all these issues. biden has left him a pretty good situation. so, you know, call me a pedantic, but i think the word emergency is being misused. >> well, you're not alone. the conservative wall street journal editorial page has pretty much said the same thing. don't devalue the word emergency. when right now, at this moment, there's not an emergency. just like when donald trump got into office in 2017, illegal border crossings on the southern border were actually at a 50 year lows. at the same time he was talking about and his supporters were

talking about building the wall, building the wall. we've got to stop the invasion. they were at 50 year lows, not at 50 year lows now, but they are at five year lows. so to declare a national emergency at this time actually is the wall street journal editorial page says seems to be devaluing the word emergency. that said, at the same time, this is an issue that matters a great deal to americans. you look at the reuters poll, we showed the overwhelming majority of americans want people that came here illegally who have committed crimes in america to be deported. that is where the overwhelming majority of americans are right now. and that's why this legislation passed in such a bipartisan manner. >> coming up, the latest from southern california as a new wildfire explodes in los angeles county. we're going to have the very latest straight ahead. in a live report from the scene in live report from the scene in our fourth hour. morning joe is

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three and a half years, a long time, and in many solitary confinement, treated like nobody's ever been treated so badly. they were treated like the worst criminals in history. and you know what they were there for? they were protesting the vote because they knew the election was rigged and they were protesting the vote. and that should be allowed to protest a vote. you should be allowed to, you know, the day when the day comes, you shouldn't. >> be. >> able to invade the capitol. ready? most of the people were absolutely innocent. okay. but forgetting all about that, these people have served horribly a long time. it would be very, very cumbersome to go and look, you know, how many people are talking about 1500 people? almost all of them are should not have been there should not have happened. and the other thing is, is some of those people with the police. true. but they were very minor incidents. okay. you know, they get built up by that couple of

fake guys that are on cnn all the time. nobody watches. they were very minor incidents. and it was time you had 1500 people that suffered. that's a lot of people, you know, they were looking for new people two weeks ago. they were looking, wait a minute. they were looking to charge new people. they have a woman who's 76 years old that they said was made a statement that was a little bit out of line years after the fact. this was a political hoax. and you know what? those people and i'm not saying in every single case, but there was a lot of patriotism with those people. >> so sam stein, you just heard it in the friendly confines of sean hannity. oval office interview donald trump continues to downplay what happened there, suggesting that officers were exaggerating their injuries. we had michael fanone on our air yesterday talk about how he

suffered a heart attack, went into cardiac arrest, was beaten within an inch of his life. we talked about how members there, you know, rise. some of the rioters would use flagpoles, baseball bats, whatever it might be. the cops own weapons, their batons to attack them. and yet this for donald trump seems to be closing the book after four years of us in his mind, a successful effort to downplay what we're seeing right there on our screens. i mean, obviously it's ridiculous and insulting to the officers who went through that traumatic ordeal. several officers took their lives. i don't consider that minor in the slightest. i don't think anyone would objectively consider that minor. should note that it was interesting to see hannity kind of sheepishly say, you shouldn't be able to invade the capitol, right? of course, you shouldn't be able. >> to be in the capitol. >> that's it goes without saying, but this is trump at his, you know, peak, right? he wants to erase this part of history. and i'm not honestly, nothing. about it surprises me. i think the more interesting,

more surprising element of this was mike johnson, which the. >> video will be. >> played, which is mike johnson sort of saying, well, let's just move on. that's in the past. we don't need to relitigate this. let's go for it. and then hours later, launching a an investigative committee in congress to investigate. the preceding days of january 6th and the and what happened after january 6th, basically investing the investigators. and so they are trying to recast this entire history begins with trump's blanket pardons, which in that interview, he said it would have been too cumbersome to go through individual cases. so just do all 1500 and then it continues into the use of congressional resources, congressional authorities, to try to cast doubt on the prosecution, the legitimate prosecution of the people who rioted, who tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power. it is a deliberate and comprehensive attempt to try to rewrite one of the darker chapters of our political history. >> well, you know, we we've seen before when congress and others

have tried to investigate the investigators regarding trump administration, it never ends well for those investigating the investigators. and in this case, you better believe that if you open this door back up and you really want to go back to january the 6th and you were a supporter of donald trump, you're going to not only see this, you're going to see cops as as the wall street journal called them cop beaters. you're going to see the people that, that, that, that walked free after beating the hell out of cops, after after doing things that led to the death of several cops, talk to their families. they'll tell you that you'll hear more people like michael fanone, who went to work that day to do their job to protect the united states capitol, who had the hell beaten out of them. they were kicked. they were tased. and by these people that were bragging, they were bragging about beating the hell

out of law enforcement officers. so the elevation of cop beaters. yeah. by by mike johnson saying, oh, listen, let's not focus on the cop beaters. let's let's focus on the biden pardons, you know, good luck with that. it's just not going to end well. it's really not it's not going to end well for republicans. it's not going to end well for the white house. david drucker, let's let's talk though about the impact and the blowback on this. i've already talked about how the wall street journal editorial page was, was sufficiently shocked at at clemency for cop beaters. and, and there were about half a dozen republicans that came out yesterday in the senate and, and actually condemned this, said it was a bad thing to do. they wouldn't do it. that said, from republicans, i spoke to and i'm really curious what you heard, whether they said it in front of microphones or not. there was a

deep, abiding unease all across the capital yesterday among republicans saying that some of the worst of the worst actually got to walk free after beating the hell out of law enforcement officers. >> yeah. look, i mean, how often is there a deep, abiding unease about something donald trump says or does? and it really doesn't matter. he campaigned on this. he said he was going to do this. this is not shocking. and all that matters politically is what do voters think? and voters voted for him anyway. so i'm not saying it doesn't matter. and i am not saying people shouldn't be upset, but this is not going to surprise anybody. and it's the sort of thing that could end up blowing back on trump if the things he was really elected to do, which is get the border under control and improve the economy by bringing down

inflation, bringing down costs, i mean, these are things that voters really want from him, not all of this other stuff. if he gets that wrong, then it becomes death by a thousand cuts and it's like, oh, you did this and you did that. but all of these things were very well known. so this is not to excuse it, but just to point out politically, this is not going to be a shock to the system or a shock to the public, nor is it a shock to republicans. they knew he would do this. and they have been okay with this because their voters have been okay with this. and look, we could end up being wrong. there could be some sort of immediate, you know, pushback broadly throughout the country. but everybody knows who donald trump is at this point. they've listened to him for almost a decade. and i'd be surprised if initially there was a big uproar. >> well, mika, this is what what you've been saying is. >> yeah. >> he he campaigned on this. he promised to do this. i mean, the only caveat to that, of course, is talking about doing it by case by case basis. jd vance

saying, no, we're not going to let the violent criminals out. the ones that beat up the cops. and we heard that from a lot of republicans. but that is a caveat to a much bigger campaign thing where he glorified throughout the campaign, the january 6th rioters. voters knew he was glorifying them, calling them patriots, and they voted for him and elected him. so david makes a very good point. >> coming up, new reporting on president trump's pressure campaign to end the war in ukraine, something he claimed would happen quickly. that conversation is just ahead on morning joe. >> and every song. >> of the falling rain. coming out. >> gary used. >> car shopping. >> can't hurt you. >> but what. >> if i overpay? >> come out and i'll show you a better way. well, you said i know. i said nearly half of all used cars have been in an accident. but there's no reason

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these fine stores. >> breaking news a fast moving disaster in california. >> breaking news israel. >> and hamas will enter a cease fire in the nation's capital. >> philadelphia and. el paso. >> the palisades. >> from msnbc world headquarters. >> stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the msnbc daily newsletter. each morning, you'll get analysis by experts you trust. video highlights from your favorite shows. >> i do think it's worth being very clear. >> eyed. >> very realistic about what's going on here. >> previews of our podcasts and documentaries, plus written perspectives from the newsmakers themselves, all sent directly to your inbox each morning. get the best of msnbc all in one place. sign up for msnbc daily at msnbc. com. >> time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. a new wildfire exploded north of los angeles yesterday, forcing tens of thousands of people to evacuate. the flames shut down

schools and businesses and temporarily closed parts of interstate five. it comes more than two weeks after the first wave of deadly infernos tore through the region. we'll stay on that overnight. we learned that seven police officers in san antonio, texas, were shot while responding to a suicide in progress call. according to authorities, none of the officers injuries are believed to be life threatening. the shooting happened just before 8:30 p.m. local time. police say the original call to authorities came from a family member. the suspect, who is described to be in his 40s, barricaded himself inside an apartment for several hours when swat teams arrived on the scene. in the end, he was found dead inside the complex. police are still unsure of the suspect's death was self-inflicted or whether he was shot by officers, and a 17 year old opened fire inside a school

cafeteria in nashville, tennessee. it happened around 11 a.m. yesterday morning at antioch high school. we've learned the shooter confronted his classmates in the cafeteria and then proceeded to fire multiple shots. a 16 year old student was killed and another was grazed by a bullet and treated at a nearby hospital. the gunman then fatally shot himself with a handgun. at this moment, a motive remains unclear, but police say they are reviewing very concerning online writings and social media posts linked to the gunman. the shooting comes nearly two years after another deadly shooting in the city that took the lives of six people. as of now, the high school will be closed for the rest of the week. up next, president trump defends granting blanket pardons to more than 1500. january 6th rioters. a new politico piece details how he may soon come to regret that

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design for thoughtful living. thoma. >> president trump's threatening new tariffs and sanctions against russia if a deal to stop fighting in ukraine isn't reached soon. in a lengthy media post yesterday, trump explained he's not going to. he's not looking to hurt russia and that he loves the russian people, but that vladimir putin must settle now because it's only going to get worse. trump said if a deal isn't reached soon, he won't have any other choice but to put high levels of tariffs of and sanctions imported on russian products. the wall street journal cites census bureau data that shows the rate at which imported russian goods enter the u.s. has dropped drastically

since putin launched his war. let's bring in right now, wall street journal reporter alan cullison. he's a former moscow correspondent for the journal, reporting from russia for over 20 years. alan, thank you so much for being with us. i guess i guess this is, you know, the economic impact is not going to be quite so great on any tariffs because trade has dwindled so rapidly since the invasion. but, but, but what does what does this statement by president trump say about how far he's willing to push vladimir putin on getting this war to getting the sides to the negotiating table? >> i think the statement is. actually quite significant. it he meant. >> more than tariffs. >> clearly the yeah, the trade. with russia has dwindled a lot over the years. it never was that significant to begin with because we're a distance of course. but you know, the united states has waged a pretty

breathtaking sanction regime regime against him. and this statement by trump is his strongest, strongest indication yet that he's going to continue it and maybe even ramp it up. i think it probably was quite a surprise to the kremlin that he would say this. this was even before trump and putin have had an official phone call. >> yeah. you know, you've you've obviously covered russia a great deal of your adult life and understand the relationship between vladimir putin and the united states. i always thought there was a fascinating split screen in the first trump administration, where donald trump would go to helsinki. he would say things that would horrify americans. and at the same time, congress, with donald trump's support, would pass some of the toughest sanctions. a republican congress would pass some of the toughest sanctions against vladimir putin. i'm wondering if that's a continuation of that. i'm also wondering, economically, where

is putin right now? where is russia right now as this war grinds on? >> yeah, i think the split screen is likely to continue. i think that trump himself is probably relishing the fact that people expect him to be conciliatory towards putin, but he's not in action here, and this is a signal of it. i think that the economic sanctions are getting more and more important to putin. the biden administration. unleashed some sanctions that were really unprecedented against a country so large. i don't think it's ever been done in really in the history of sanctions making. and the russian economy is feeling some strains on it. the, you know, inflation is ramping up and they're having to raise interest rates. the, you know,

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all individual people with their homes, with their lives. >> driving around, there's almost nothing left standing. occasionally you'll see a house that's okay or a street that's okay, but that's occasional. >> i continue to. >> see, and i. >> want to shout out one more time. >> the first. >> responders who are responding. >> in this. >> mutual aid effort. >> from all over southern california. it really has brought out the best and most inspiring part about human beings. >> the pro bowl games are here. tune in to a two day competition as the league's biggest stars take their games to the next level. the pro bowl games presented by verizon starting thursday, january 30th. flag football finale on sunday, february 2nd. >> welcome back to morning joe. house republicans have formed a new subcommittee to look into the events surrounding january 6th. this subcommittee, which will fall under the judiciary committee's purview, will be chaired by georgia republican

congressman barry loudermilk, who spent much of the last congress attempting to discredit the work of the original january 6th committee. loudermilk is known for providing a tour to a group of people the day before the attack on the capitol that included one of the rioters. in a statement, house speaker mike johnson said the committee's purpose was to expose the false narratives peddled by the politically motivated january 6th select committee and will uncover the full truth that is owed to the american people. joining us now, democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland. he is ranking member of the house judiciary committee. congressman, so good to see you this morning. we have a lot to get to, but let's just start there with this new effort to investigate the events surrounding january 6th and its aftermath, including the work of a committee on which you served. what is your response here? what is the purpose of this committee in your estimation?

>> well, it. >> was a. >> surprise to. >> us. >> when we heard about. >> it last night. after all, most of the republicans from. >> swing moderate. >> districts that the gop needs to hang on to. want to move away from the horrific politics for them of january 6th. and now these atrocious pardons of proud boys, oath keepers and other violent extremists. and so they don't want to talk about it anymore. and we were amazed that they would open up a whole new channel for revisiting the very clear and uncontested events of january 6th. apparently, donald trump was demanding it of mike johnson, which is why they created it. so they took barry loudermilk, who essentially had failed in his mission over the last two years, to try to lay a glove on the january 6th bipartisan committee report in the house administration committee. and they relocated him, moving him over to the judiciary committee. i take it

that chairman styles of house admin didn't want anything more to do with it. but in any event, look there, we have an 800 page report that was done on a bipartisan basis with more than 1000 interviews. we looked at a million pages of documents, and nobody has successfully contradicted a single factual statement in the report that was produced by our select committee. so they've had a few years to try to come up with something, but nobody believes that antifa did it. nobody believes that the fbi organized it. and so i don't know exactly where they're going. but i would say since they know donald trump well and he's the one who wants the subcommittee, he should be the first witness there because he has never told anybody his side of the story. and we would love the opportunity to question him. >> seems like an unlikely witness to be called, though, congressman. so you mentioned the pardons. of course, the blanket pardons, 1500 or so issued by donald trump

throughout anyone involved with january 6th, including you mentioned the leaders of the proud boys and oath keepers, as well as those convicted of violent crimes, including assaulting police officers. you know, you've you've said before you believe this was undermine the judicial system. tell us more about that. but also your worries that these people, these violent offenders are back on the streets and now know potentially, that if they commit another violent crime, well, the president would have their back. >> well, you got it. they were not pardoned because they were innocent. they were not pardoned because they were without due process. they were pardoned basically because they are guilty and they are unrepentant, and they have proven themselves to be completely loyal foot soldiers of donald trump and a reserve army of political shock troops who will be there for him to do essentially whatever he wants. it's a very dangerous and unprecedented situation in american democracy that donald trump has just imposed on

everybody. >> so, congressman, on the subject of pardons, we should note that in president biden's final hours in office, he issued a series of them, including to those involved with the january 6th committee that we were discussing, which includes you. so were you seeking a pardon? what what is your reaction to receiving one? >> no, i wasn't seeking a pardon. we are covered by the fact that we didn't do anything wrong. there's no criminal offense. we just did our jobs and upheld our oaths of office and defended the democracy. and we were protected, in any event, by the speech and debate clause. however, donald trump was continually saying he was going to prosecute the heads of our committee bennie johnson, bennie thompson and liz cheney. and, you know, so i don't blame president biden for what he did. but the pardons that took place in the morning on january 20th were pardons of innocent people who were being protected from vindictive prosecutions,

political prosecutions being promised by donald trump. the people pardoned in the afternoon were guilty, who had every benefit of due process and who violently assaulted our police officers, bloodying them, hospitalizing them. you know, i spoke yesterday to mrs. sicknick, gladys sicknick, who's the mother of brian sicknick, an officer who was brutally assaulted by people who were pardoned by donald trump. and, you know, it would be very fitting if donald trump would go out to arlington national cemetery to visit the grave of brian sicknick and members of congress who are applauding and cheering these people who have come back to say that they want revenge and retaliation, go and visit some of the graves of the people who lost their lives on that day, and go and talk to some of the families of officers whose lives have been turned upside down by that violent

assault on our constitutional order. >> yeah, we had officer michael fanone join us yesterday, describing in detail the violent acts committed by someone who has now been pardoned by the president. ranking member on the house judiciary committee. congressman jamie raskin, congressman, we thank you as always. we'll speak to you again soon. >> you bet. >> all right. up next here on morning joe, we'll bring you a live report from southern california for the latest on a brand new wildfire that is now forcing tens of thousands of people to evacuate. plus, cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us from the world economic forum in davos, switzerland, ahead of president trump's virtual address to business and political leaders there later this morning. and the oscar nominations are out. we'll go through the films that could receive hollywood's top honors. a jam packed fourth hour of morning joe. straight ahead. >> tired of dealing with mud and dirt? every time your dog comes in? meet muddy matt. trapping

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have our first big controversy, which of course leads to the classic ritual of a trump presidency. he does something crazy. then republicans get asked about it and they're like, what? i didn't see it. >> do you. >> agree with president trump's decision to pardon these violent people if they were truly violent? no, but but do i know that they were i don't know that. >> this. >> january 6th pardons. >> well. >> i've said. what i. >> said before. >> and that is we're not looking backward. >> i haven't seen. >> the details, but i think. >> a lot. >> of those cards were definitely well deserved. >> what about those. >> who assaulted. >> police officers. >> and then were pardoned by the president? >> i haven't seen any. >> i. >> haven't i haven't gone into the detail. >> we're talking. >> about people that were. >> beating officers. >> with fire hydrants with metal batons. is that acceptable to you? >> those people were acceptable, but i didn't see it. >> so what. >> do you mean? >> it's on video? >> no, no, no spoilers. tommy tuberville didn't watch jan six yet, okay. he'll he'll he'll get to it. but there's just so much to watch these days. you know,

he's still got nine over 11 in benghazi on his dvr. i mean, you you were a senator on jan six. like, what do you mean you didn't see the insurrection? you lived it. this is like a titanic survivor saying, i haven't seen the movie. don't tell me what happens. >> well. >> it was. >> that. certainly. that certainly was true. for it certainly was true for a lot of republicans. there were also some who spoke out. lisa murkowski. >> absolutely. >> very, very tough and harsh about it early on. thom tillis, thom tillis also very clear. i will say i could be mistaken and if i am mistaken, let me know. i think ron johnson, that ron johnson, they're sort of brushing it aside, but i thought i had heard ron johnson also saying yesterday and i could be wrong that that he disagreed with those that committed acts of violence from being put off. but there were 5 or 6, jonathan lemire, i think five, six, seven

republicans who openly came out and said they certainly would not have pardoned those that beat the hell out of cops. you would hope that would be 53 republicans and every every democrat, especially since most of them were there and feared for their lives. and you go back and you look at what they said on that day. and even in the years later, lindsey graham a couple of years later, saying, you know, if you pardon those guys that committed violent acts, you're only encouraging future political violence. ted cruz, also very clear on this a couple of years ago. >> yeah, we just heard that from congressman raskin a few minutes ago saying this, this is a permission structure for perhaps these people to commit violent crimes again. and we did hear from some republicans in recent days condemning this. we played senator murkowski very strongly earlier today. and she wasn't alone. but that's still in the minority. and i think it also, we should reiterate the reporting here that the this

decision to have this wide ranging blanket pardon came from donald trump himself just in the last few days, that even his closest aides up until the weekend thought it would make it would be far more targeted pardons that those who committed violent crimes perhaps be left aside. that's what we heard from then vice president elect jd vance about a week ago, and pam bondi in her attorney general confirmation hearing last week, also said she did not believe that violent offenders would be pardoned. but yet the president made the decision for a sweeping move. >> yeah, i mean, we have to keep in mind this is what he campaigned on. and the other thing to watch for moving forward is what this is going to mean, not just for the rule of law, but for the people who were pardoned. what will they do? and we will see what happens. we're going to get back to these pardons in just a moment. but we want to talk about what's happening right now north of los angeles, a new brushfire exploded there yesterday, forcing tens of thousands of people to evacuate. the huge fire has burned more than 10,000 acres and is currently 14%

contained. the flames erupted just before 11 a.m. local time, about 40 miles northwest of downtown la, and is being fed by high winds and dry conditions. joining us live from castaic, california. nbc news correspondent liz creutz. liz, what's the situation like right now? >> well. hey, mika. i mean, the there was a massive 4000 firefighters multi-agency response to this wildfire. and incredibly, it seems like they've been able to knock down a lot of the active flames overnight. we are seeing some of the damage here. i was here yesterday as gusty winds pushed the flames of this fire down this hillside, threatening the town. there behind me, thousands of people forced to evacuate. we saw dramatic images of schools being evacuated, students running to get out safely. some of the damage here downed power lines right now. all of this just due to these relentless conditions that we're experiencing two weeks after the palisades and eaton fires. in fact, some of the firefighters that have been battling those

devastating fires now pivoting to this one. the good news here is that unlike those other fires two weeks ago, even though the winds have been strong, they were able to immediately begin air attacks and we were seeing multiple water drops overnight, which really helped them get a hold of the fire here. but i've been describing it kind of like a game of whack a mole the moment one fire gets contained, we're seeing another one ignite. and overnight, there was another small brush fire that ignited in the city of la, near the 405 near the bel air neighborhood, near the famous getty villa getty center. and thankfully, they were able to knock that one down as well. but it's just put an entire region on edge. and mika, the conditions are continuing. we have red flag warnings here in most of la county through tomorrow. the good news, i will say maybe a silver lining is that there is rain in the forecast for the weekend, but that does add another layer of concern, which is that there is then the potential for mudslides and some of the burn scar areas. >> yeah, liz, certainly a welcome forecast. but you're right to highlight the danger. my question to you is, as you've

mentioned this, this game of whack a mole is one fire after another after another. from what you've talked there to fire officials, what is sort of the manpower and exhaustion levels of these firefighters who, you know, though they receive some reinforcements from out of state, have been nonstop for weeks now. >> yeah. first of all, they're heroes. they're amazing. these guys and men and women have been working nonstop around the clock. and just when i was coming here with our crew yesterday, we were rushing to this fire. we were seeing multiple agencies come from la fire, beverly hills fire, kern county fire coming south for this. so there's been a multi-agency response, but these crews are working around the clock and it is grueling and exhausting, and we owe it to them. though i think the fact that we were able to see this fire get 14% containment so quickly is a testament to the fact that there's some lessons learned from two weeks ago. there was officials that made sure that fire crews were pre-positioned, and there were resources pre-positioned in some of these high risk areas to be able to launch and wage this full scale attack on this fire overnight. >> all right. nbc's liz crews,

thank you so much for the latest there. and we turn back to the latest now out of washington, where donald trump continues to defend his controversial decision to pardon the january 6th rioters. nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake has the latest on that. and the president's new immigration orders. >> this morning, president trump. >> and republicans. >> pushing ahead on. >> his signature. >> campaign promise. >> with a flurry. >> of immigration actions. >> who would ask for open borders with people pouring in. >> ordering the. >> suspension of all border crossings. >> including asylum. >> seekers. >> while the pentagon moves to. >> deploy an extra. >> 1500 troops. >> to the southern border. >> and this. >> morning. >> nbc news. >> learning that the administration is giving officials from several. agencies authority to carry out deportations, according to a senior homeland. >> security official. >> not only. >> is it going to be ice. >> engaging in these raids. >> but also. >> they're going to have support. >> from their law enforcement partners in. >> fbi, atf, dea, and u.s.

marshals. >> but in. >> a new. >> fox news interview, the president still. >> focused on defending. >> one of his other early moves the decision to grant clemency to every person convicted in connection with the january 6th capitol attack. >> there was a lot of patriotism with those people. >> transition sources say he made the decision to issue the blanket pardons just days before his inauguration yesterday. trump, responding to criticism that the action covered even those who attacked police. >> some of those people with the police, true. but they were very minor incidents. >> daniel hodges was one of the 140 officers assaulted by rioters during the attack. >> i was beaten. >> crushed, kicked, punched, surrounded. >> someone reached. >> underneath my visor, tried to gouge out my eye, and all these people were just pardoned by donald trump, who says that they were the real victims, that they were the patriots.

>> one of those freed from federal prison. oath keepers militia founder stewart rhodes, convicted of seditious conspiracy for his role in plotting the attack despite never setting foot in the capitol on january 6th. but he did on wednesday, where he said he was meeting with lawmakers and former proud boys leader enrique tarrio. returning home to miami with his 22 year sentence for seditious conspiracy. pardoned. offering this ominous message in an interview tuesday. >> the people who did. >> this. >> they need to feel the heat. >> nbc's garrett hake with that report. and joining us now, we have the host of msnbc's inside with jen psaki, jen psaki, co-host of the weekend on msnbc, symone sanders townsend and senior writer for politico magazine, ankush kaddouri. he is also a former federal prosecutor at the department of justice, where he specialized in financial fraud and white collar crime. his latest piece is entitled trump may come to regret his january 6th pardons,

and here's why he'll explain that for us in just a moment. i think, joe, that is, now that we have the signal, the question will remain what comes next? what comes out of this? what do some of these people do? what might they do? and what might this mean for the rule of law? >> well, and also, i think, as jonathan and i have talked about already, what might it mean for kash patel and our republicans who were worried about kash patel before taking over the fbi, even more concerned after the sweeping move that even jd vance and just about every republican who spoke on the subject said the violent offenders, people that beat the hell out of cops should not be pardoned. i do, i got a couple clean up things here and then i want to get to this, this article, first of all, on ron johnson doing something i rarely

do here, defending ron johnson and saying this. he said he loved the pardons. they asked about the violent pardons. he said, i certainly don't want to pardon any violent actors. that was that was the, quote, part of the quote from that clip that we showed. that's number one. number two. and jen psaki, i want to go to you on this. we see the fires burning in california and we're going to get back to j six. i just i we can't run that package on la and have and at the same time we're we're getting out of the paris climate accords. at the same time people are mocking and ridiculing efforts by the biden administration to pass some sweeping environmental legislation and actually fund it. that sense, i think this is right. since 1850, when records started being kept, 19 of the 20

hottest years on record have been over the last 20 years. now, i'm not exactly sure who can look at that and say, oh, it's just a glitch, it's just weather. but this happens. it was cold in 1978 and, you know, and that wasn't global freezing. and so it's just have this split screen. and so you've got that. what i always tell about my hardcore republican friend who also is a leader of an insurance company, it's like, dude, if you do not believe that there's climate change and global warming, please come look at the property damage over the past 20 years and the payouts that we make. yes, he says, i'm a conservative, but i'm not a fool. there is climate change, there is global warming. and it

is. it is causing devastating, devastating results for a lot of americans. >> no question about it. and joe, i mean, you know, well, the coast of florida has been impacted dramatically by the climate. crisis from an economic standpoint for people in the community. that is true across the united states. wildfires, natural disasters. mother nature doesn't look at people's party affiliation before she impacts neighborhoods. and communities. and we see that across certain parts of california. but we also saw. that in different. we've seen that in different ways in natural disasters that have happened. and i think it's we're still stuck in this world where climate change and addressing climate change is seen as a democratic issue, a, a political issue. that's one sided. and the truth is, it's not about hugging trees. we can hug trees. we want to hug trees. it's about a range of things. it's about our national security and keeping our country safe and keeping other places safe around the

world. they're going to be so many swaths of the world that are inhabitable, maybe in the united states at some point. it's about the health of our kids, clean air and clean water. those are things that are all at risk. so it is not a political or partizan issue at all. it has become one. and the last thing i would just say in pulling out of the paris climate accords, the united states is one of the world's largest emitters, along with china. so one of the impacts of that is that if your smaller countries or other countries where this is a this, this was a harder issue to pull them to the table, they're looking at that and they're thinking, well, trump and the united states aren't going to be a part of it. so why do i have to be a part of it? and it means everybody's contributing in a worse way, making the climate crisis even worse over even just the next couple of years. >> right. >> and, you know, simone, the thing that donald trump said when, when talking about the environment and that i've heard other people say it is true, i mean, that that the united

states has done a pretty good job over the past 20, 25 years in knocking down levels of co2 emissions. most of the damage is coming from china. most of the damage is coming from india right now. and of course that impacts us. that impacts the entire globe. this is true, but it certainly doesn't seem to be like, you know, a justification to say, all right, because they're polluting, we're going to get out of the paris accords. you would think you would say, because china and india are polluting. we need to flex our, our, our power, which he wants to do, but do it to actually move china and india closer to where america's been in the past 20 years. >> yeah. i mean, there is. >> a there's a carrot and a stick approach here, but i will i will just take it a point even further for the americans that are like, okay, i hear what you're saying about the climate accords, but what does that really have to do with what's happening here at home? i would bring you to los angeles,

california and the surrounding areas. the president of the united states last night did an interview with sean hannity where he said he talked about conditioning aid to california, unless they and that they're not going to get anything unless they change their water policy as though their water policy, whatever that is, by the way, is the reason that the fires are raging. the reason that the fires are raging is the wind. you can't do anything about the wind because the wind is the climate. and so we are all about we are all beholden, frankly, to mother nature, and it is happening more often and more frequently all across this country right now. it's los angeles and the surrounding areas. but over the last couple of years, three to 4 or 5 years, large swaths of the united states have been on fire. large swaths of swaths of europe have been on fire. france is literally on fire, not two summers ago. so this is something we are all going to have to continue to contend with. and not acknowledging the role that our changing climate is playing in these natural

disasters that are devastating families, regardless of who they voted for in the last election, is going to drive us further down a very just a very dark and concerning path, because it is the climate, it's not water policy, it's the climate. and we have to deal with the climate and the realities of that. >> yeah. and once again, here's an example of how not just two things can be true at the same time. in this case, you got like 5 or 6 things that are that are true. at the same time, you know, pilots will always say if a plane crashes, it's not one thing that goes wrong. it's usually 20 things at the same time here. i'm sure we can go through and we can look at california's water policy. we could look at karen bass leadership. we could look at the city council's leadership. and i'm sure we could pick a little bit here and a little bit there, and we could talk about how, hey, they could have done this better, done that. true. nobody's nobody. you're going to find you're going to find that to be the case. just like we find it after every natural

disaster. but jonathan lamar simmons exactly right. we've talked to one fire chief after another fire chief. and what they all say is, yes, you've got climate change, you've got urban sprawl, people moving into wild lands where wildfires sweep through. you have a system that is designed to take care of a city block or a couple of houses or a building here and there, and every single fire chief says nothing. nothing would have prepared us for 100 mile an hour winds sweeping out of wild lands and sweeping these wildfires into urban centers, where the firefighters line of defense are on, on systems that are good for urban areas, but not when wildfire sweeps out of wild areas and going in there. i

mean, the systems systems obviously have proven themselves to be antiquated, but there is no there's no fire department in america, in a red state or a blue state that could contain one. hot fires being swept across a massive urban region with 100 mile an hour winds. there's just not. >> these are hurricane force winds, and those winds are on fire. and climate change is part of this. and also, we should note in his interview last night with sean hannity in the oval office, president trump suggested doing away with fema. fema, of course, so invaluable to this disaster and others. now, he did say the federal government would still supply resources. it would still supply funding to states battling a natural disaster like this, but that the states would sort of be on their own in managing it. and i think we have seen time and time again, states fall short of that. and i know many democrats are already sounding the alarm at that proposal. so let's turn

now, though, back to january 6th. and we want to get into your piece here talking about how trump may come to regret his january 6th pardons. walk us through your argument with one reason being, i believe it's not like these pardoned convicts are simply going to go away quietly into the night. >> yeah, jonathan, i think that is actually the marquee point here. but just to level set with some facts that you and much of your audience know, 600 people were charged with assaulting or resisting officers, 170 plus were charged with with offenses involving a deadly weapon or serious injuries to officers. the polling around january 6th. despite what trump and his allies have said, has always generated a large bipartisan majority of people who disapprove of what happened that day, that is still true. the numbers are lower among republicans, but across the country as a whole, that is still true. large numbers of people, somewhere around 60, 60 plus percent already oppose trump's plans to do these pardons. these defendants are now going to be in public forever, right? stewart rhodes

and enrique tarrio, the qanon shaman. these people are already out in public saying, you know, disturbing things. jackson reffitt, who is a witness against his father in the 1st january six case that went to trial, was on air talking to one of your colleagues a day or two ago. i think chris jansing talking about how he has been getting death threats in the wake of the pardons. last but not least, in general, violent offenders in the in the federal criminal justice system go on to commit more violent offenses. roughly two thirds of them will engage in some form of recidivism. and who knows what that recidivism might look like in this context. a lot of these people were, of course, all involved with a political crime. and trump has now sent a very disturbing message to those people and his supporters, which is effectively that if you engage in political violence on my behalf, it is okay. and i just don't i don't think this is the last of what we're going to hear from these people, and we're going to see civic society, the media, nonprofits, universities following these

people now that they're back in society. >> well, i think i think you're exactly right, too. this is going to be the you're going to have this continuing to follow the administration around, following republicans around, because, as you said, you had one person saying after after pardoned, i'm going to go out and get some more effing guns. you of course, we just played, you know, you know, threats of retribution. and what is again, so, so bitterly ironic for me as a conservative is that conservatives have long said what you said, right? they're violent. criminals need to be locked up because violent criminals will come out and create even more crimes. earlier this morning, when we were talking about the deportation of

illegal immigrants who committed crimes, i talked about giuliani's broken windows theory that has always split. there's always been a divide, and conservatives have always believed you get people that are committing the small crimes that will that will have a cumulative impact and, and, and stop huge crime waves. here you have people committing violent acts against law enforcement officers coming out saying, hey, thanks for the pardon. i'm buying guns. basically, we're seeking retribution. and you're right, this is going to stay in the news and forget lefties, forget righties, forget ideology, forget college professors, forget think tanks. americans are going to see this and it's going to have a negative impact on their view of donald trump, of the administration of the

republican party, especially if they don't speak out against the violence. >> yeah, i totally agree. i mean, this is not going to be a one day or a one week story. and i think it's, you know, trump is beginning his his second term with a very unpopular policy. and this isn't the first time trump has begun a term in office with unified control of the government and entering in, coming in with a whole bunch of unpopular things, a whole bunch of bravado. and what happened in 2018 was that the house flipped. and, you know, i just think that, you know, the bravado that we're hearing from trump and his allies is just that it's a bit of a posture. and i think in this particular case, as the facts and information continues to drip out to the public about what these pardoned defendants actually did, what they are currently doing now and what they may do in the future, i expect this decision will become even more unpopular. >> well, the new piece is online now for politico, senior writer for politico magazine, ankush choudhary. thank you very much for coming on the show this

morning. we appreciate it. all right. president trump has doubled down on his threat to impose stiff tariffs on america's largest trading partners. the president said he planned to put a 25% tariff on products from canada and mexico, beginning on february 1st. he also said he will place an additional 10% tariff on chinese products by the same date. as the new york times points out, mr. trump's threats leave just ten days before significant levies could go into effect on the united states three largest trading partners, a move that could throw american diplomatic relationships and global supply chains into disarray. joe, this is this is an interesting part of trump's campaign promises. and a lot of folks who voted for him, who i think might end up being hurt by these tariffs. >> well, i mean, you know, the thing is, again, he promised the

tariffs. it's just like we've said about the j six pardons. this is what he promised to do. he promised to tear i. there may be a slight difference here. and let's bring in andrew ross sorkin from the world economic forum in davos. andrew, we might have a slight difference here. we shall see with with the j six pardons. that's something you promised to do. he did it. donald trump has always suggested that the tariffs were and he did to senate republicans. that's sort of his opening negotiating stance. is that how our trading partners are looking at it? i got to tell. >> you. >> folks around. here outside of the united. >> states, i. think it's wouldn't be. >> an overstatement to say terrified. of what may happen as it relates to the. tariffs for themselves. of course, i know some americans who are terrified of what those tariffs could mean for inflation. we talked to jamie dimon yesterday about that very issue, and he said of

course it would be inflationary. and i said if it's for national security reasons, maybe there's an argument and maybe you accept some form of inflationary effect for that purpose. >> but just across. >> the board. >> it becomes very, very complicated. quickly, we're going to hear from president trump in less than two hours here in davos. he's going to be making a presentation virtually from the white house where a lot of these questions in so many folks around here, leaders, business leaders and others are going to be listening to the president to try to understand exactly. is this a grand negotiation, as we've discussed? or and by the way, there are folks inside the white house, part of the administration already that say it's not a negotiation at all. you know, promises made, promises kept, and this tariff piece could be part of that. then, of course, it raises a big question for the united states and our economy. you know, joe, you've been talking for a very long time about. our markets being almost priced for perfection at these, you know, remarkably high levels. and i think one of the undertones of the conversations that have been happening here in davos all week is just that,

that there is something bubbly about it, that if in fact, inflation becomes a real issue throughout the rest of the year, it will take, by the way, several months for us to feel that inflationary effect. >> but if you start. >> to see that inflationary effect, come call it june. plus, you have the debate over taxes in the united states really heat up. i think you're going to start to see the bond market react. and if the bond market reacts by saying, hey folks, we're we're going to actually require higher interest rates to actually buy us bonds. that's going to become a real issue because it's going to make things even more expensive. but as we've discussed, that could be a bit of a governor potentially on the trump administration and on washington in terms of how they therefore think about some of these issues. but i can't imagine if, in fact, that were to happen that trump would then start taking the tariffs off. i mean, that's that's the hard part. once you go down this road, it's very hard. >> to sort of. >> double back again. >> we will see again, he told. he told senate republicans, reportedly a few days ago, that he didn't want a tax. he didn't want a tariff. he he wanted he

wanted to he wanted to negotiate. we will see, though, you are exactly right. this economy is on the razor's edge right now in many ways. as far as inflationary pressures. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin live from davos. we greatly appreciate you taking the time to be with us. >> good to see you. >> so, jen, i am i will admit i am a conservative, a small c conservative. i always fear that the stock market is overpriced and going to collapse when people say, i want to get in and i want to invest. i do think, though, that sort of all the bells are ringing right now. we have a strong economy, but it's on the razor's edge as far as inflationary pressures go. we've got a stock market that warren buffett and a lot of people, a hell of a lot smarter than me, think is overvalued, overpriced right now. we we've got the bubble, the crypto bubble. we're

just just just crazy maddening profits right now. literally based on nothing. is exploding. and then we've got the thing again. tracking is a conservative. the thing that got me into congress, the fear of our debt, the fiscal crisis that is coming with a $36 trillion debt. when i left congress, we had a $5 trillion debt. we had $155 billion surplus. we had balanced the budget four years in a row. that wasn't that long ago. 20 years later, we have a $36 trillion debt. and the congressional budget office just said, we're going to add another 20 trillion in the next decade. that like something's got to give here. that that is a debt bomb that when it explodes, it wrecks our economy and it wrecks the world's economy with it.

>> no question about it. and, you know, it doesn't help. add to that is an extension of the high end tax cuts. but what i would say, joe, as much as those are all issues, if we're going back to the politics of the economy, i think the challenge that democrats have that anyone has who wants to translate and communicate about this issue is that it's not actually, in my view, talking about the debt. it's not talking about the stock market. it's not talking about data points, whether they're good or challenging. it's talking about it in a way that and how it impacts people's lives. and as much as all of those issues you've outlined are very important. economists should talk about it. andrew ross sorkin should talk about it, and they should inform people what there is a disconnect on is what on earth are you talking about in washington and sometimes in the media? and what does that have to do with me? you know, most people who are just trying to make ends meet, living paycheck to paycheck, trying to make sure they can put some money in the

bank to put their kids into college, if that's possible. they're not thinking about the national debt. maybe they should be, but that's not how they're thinking about it. right. and so we have to get back to this conversation about costs and how costs are going to be lowered. yes, prescription drugs is a good example, but most people feel like that doesn't impact them. not most people, but people who are under a certain age don't feel like that impacts them. so let's talk about the cost of child care. let's talk about the cost of college. let's talk about the cost of groceries. things that actually impact people every day. democrats lost the thread on. that doesn't mean debt isn't an issue, but it is rarely an issue that ranks high. and so on the politics of it, i just don't think it's a top, a top one. you may disagree with me. you're a low c, a small c conservative. that's okay. i'm not. >> no no no no it's not that i disagree with you. i wasn't i wasn't talking about what democratic politicians should take to the voters. i was talking about the dangers of donald trump. if he pushes too much on tariffs, if he pushes

these massive tax cuts, if our fiscal policy becomes more reckless, if they just get rid of the debt ceiling, i'll tell you what. the bond markets will notice. interest rates will explode and the voters will notice very quickly. >> it's already like very unaffordable to try to own a home right about now. i can only imagine what could happen down the line. look, i think the reality is, is when i think about the tariffs, you know, i think about child care and how donald trump said that the tariffs was going to lower child care. i've yet to hear the connection being made. perhaps he'll make it at davos while addressing some of the richest people in the world today. i look forward to hearing hearing from that. i really think it's important here to look. the president made a lot of promises and i think that he has to we have to hold him accountable on the promises that he made and the ones that he kept and the ones that he didn't. he said he

was going to get out of the war in ukraine on the first day. i'm still waiting to see the war end. he talked about how the tariffs were going to lower child care and just tear up the people, and that will make it happen and americans won't have to pay anything. i look forward to seeing how he plans to operate, operationalize that plan that again, we've all said it's not reality. but, you know, maybe the president knows something i do not know. and when he doesn't on the things that he says he's going to do, like infrastructure, where is the infrastructure? he had a whole infrastructure announcement. i'm waiting to see what that is, the things that he has. so the things that he says he's going to do, we have to hold him accountable. the things that he is doing. we really have to unpack that for folks. and i do think at the end of the day, jen is right, that there are all of these things happening that apply to the american people, that they don't necessarily understand. they're not connecting the two. but when it comes to specifically a lot of the things that he signed, a lot of the things that he is signaling, the americans are going to bear the brunt and the burden particularly, you know, he's telling the health, the health organizations within the

federal government not to take down all the signage and to not communicate outwardly about what's happening. the eggs are still very high because there's a bird flu. the american if the government ain't going to tell us about the bird flu and what's going on in the eggs, i just make it make sense to me somewhat. >> symone sanders townsend, thank you. we'll be watching the weekend, saturday and sunday morning at 8 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. and we'll see you on the next morning. mika jen psaki, who's hosting it, will be watching inside with jen psaki sunday at noon and monday at 8 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. and we'll see you both on the next episode, which will drop, by the way of morning mika on tomorrow on peacock and youtube. so coming up, we'll take a look at some of the other stories making headlines around the country, including something that's causing egg prices to skyrocket. simone just touched on that. it's not inflation. plus, the oscar nominations are in. >> we'll be. >> down. the snubs and the

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not a typo. find the plan that's right for you at trusted wilcom. >> time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. a dozen large gray eggs costs an average of $4.15 in the u.s. last month, nearly 37% increase from the year before, and the first time in two years. the average price was above $4. the increase, due in part to the surge of bird flu cases, which has killed 16 million egg laying hens in the last two months alone. the virus has infected more than 130 million birds in the u.s. since 2022. >> enrollment at colleges and

universities across the country has rebounded and even surpassed pre-pandemic levels. a new report found that total enrollment is up 4.5%, including 16 million undergraduates who enrolled last fall. some of the strongest gains were by community colleges, which saw the heaviest enrollment losses during the pandemic, but those still remain below pre-pandemic levels. and turning now to spain in a landmark decision, a court has ruled that single parents are entitled to the same paid parental leave that couples are entitled to, on the grounds that all babies should be treated the same. this now means that single parents can request the full amount of paid leave that spanish couples are entitled to six weeks of mandatory leave that must be taken together, plus an additional ten for each parent. a total of 16 weeks per parent for a single person serving as both parents. that

adds up to 32 weeks of paid leave. so remarkable progress there, joe in spain. >> yeah. makes you. >> yeah. >> i mean. >> there maybe. maybe we need to get a madrid. maybe. get a, like a madrid bureau. and. >> wait a minute. >> see if i, you know, take care of grandbabies or something and get 32 weeks off. don't think. >> it. >> applies to grandbabies. it could adopt. >> i mean. >> i don't know. >> well, we're talking about equal rights for children. grandbabies are kids too. all right, there we go. let let let let let's get to let's get to some serious business here. nominees for the 97th academy awards were announced just minutes ago. here's a look at the films being considered for best picture. wicked. a complete unknown. and the substance among them. as well as conclave. let's bring in right now the founding partner of and former editor of the hollywood reporter, matthew

bellamy. matthew, you know, there's some years that these awards come out, especially in recent years. and i look at them and go, what? what? where have i been? there's some there's some films, actually, that regular joes like me have actually seen this year. and some great ones. i think you, like me, are surprised. i'm happily surprised that a complete unknown really showed strength across all categories. you got ed norton extraordinary as pete seeger and of course, timothee chalamet. i never saw it coming. this guy was bob dylan. it's great. same with conclave. also showing a lot of strength. ralph fiennes isabella rossellini a couple of extraordinary performances there as well. what stands out to you? >> you know. >> to me, what stands out is that this is a pretty wide open best picture race. last year,

oppenheimer kind of ran the table. there wasn't much drama, but here we've got a wide variety of films. >> each of. >> them has their own constituency. we've got a big blockbuster in wicked. we have a kind of comedy, a cinderella story and a nora. we've got a complete unknown, which has the biopic crowd, and that movie is doing pretty well at the box office. we have a very tiny movie in the brutalist. it's only made $5 million, and it's a 3.5 hour epic. that movie has a huge constituency of fans, and then we've got a netflix movie and amelia perez, which has been somewhat polarizing, especially online, with people who have seen it. but it's a big movie for the international audience. it's a french director, it's a spanish star, it's in foreign language mostly. and that movie is a juggernaut. 13 nominations. so we've got a really wide open best picture race. >> yeah, we really do. and i

will tell you, you talked about wicked. i mean, just obviously a massive budget, a massive film, massive crowds, a lot of people loving it. but on the other side of the spectrum, a beautiful movie. jesse eisenberg and a real pain. and the nominations there for screenplay, well deserved. and kieran culkin is a beautiful film trip across poland. and i'm so glad that that it was recognized because it wasn't a huge, massive blockbusters. there weren't screams. it was. it was written well. you had a you had two great actors that just really gave really moving performances. >> absolutely. and i think the win for this movie will probably be kieran culkin, who has won some of the, you know, precursor prizes and is the standout here. it's interesting, the all five nominees for original screenplay

were also directed by the writer. so jesse eisenberg here directed this movie did not get a directing nomination, but he did get a writing nomination, which i think it does have a chance there to win. >> yeah. we also see the jeremy strong kieran culkin succession showdown there in the best supporting actor category. matthew, give us one more you want to highlight here, perhaps best supporting actress or lead actress you give who whose industry feel like right now has that buzz as we should note, sort of a strange time for the for the filmmaking community in los angeles, considering still recovering and dealing with these fires. >> absolutely. and the oscars have announced that the oscars telecast is going to pivot. they're not going to have the song nominees performed on the show. instead, they're going to have more tributes. they're going to incorporate a tribute to los angeles. they're going to do more history of the film business in the arena, in the area. so i think that's interesting. the best actress race, i think is pretty interesting. we saw a big nomination for demi moore, who i

think got in there because in part of her golden globes speech, which people loved, it was about her being pigeonholed throughout her career. this is, amazingly, her first nomination after 4 or 5 decades of working in the business and being one of the biggest draws in the movie business for many years, i think that's fantastic. there's the first transgender actress nomination for amalia perez. karla sofia gascon got a nomination there, and mikey madison, who is really the discovery of the season, the star of nora. she plays a sex worker who has kind of an impulsive relationship with a son of a russian power couple, mikey madison, i think, is tipped for potentially being a surprise winner here, but i think the favorite is probably demi moore, in part because of the narrative around her. people love a good comeback. >> yeah, you're right to note what a wide open oscars race this will be. just count me though, on team conclave. matthew belloni, thank you so

much for joining us this morning. still ahead here, we're going to stick with entertainment and dig into a new documentary on a genre of music that's become known simply as yacht rock. that's right, yacht rock. and the film's director joins us to explain what that is and tell us about the artists who defined its sound. mika singing along. morning joe is back in just a moment. >> i like to. >> wind right like the wind. >> the harder you push, the better we get. introducing copper fit ice, the world's first compression sleeve with a cooling sensation of menthol. the more you move, the more you'll feel the support. our most advanced compression sleeve yet a more durable heavyweight weave with seamless four way stretch for continuous compression and faster recovery of sore muscles and joints. (fisher investments)joints. at fisher investments we may look like other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) you can't be that different.

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grainger.com or just stop by granger for the ones who get it done. >> you don't. >> know me. >> but i'm you for the. it rocks. >> but it doesn't rock too hard. the singers all seem to be

saying, hey, it's going to be okay. >> it's perfect. >> sitting down. >> dancing music, also. >> known. >> as yacht rock. >> la in the 1970s. >> it was an amazing time. there's these really talented session guys who can play anything. >> steely dan. >> the doobie brothers. >> toto. >> kenny loggins, christopher. >> cross. >> michael mcdonald. >> you have these. >> sensational white musicians who had been acculturated on black music styles. >> you write. >> what you. >> hear, what you feel. >> a lot of. >> the black stations picked up my. >> first album. >> they made. >> it a hit. it caused a buzz. >> that we weren't used to getting. >> oh, come on, man, that was part of the trailer for yacht rock, a documentary which is streaming now on max. the latest film from hbo's music box anthology series yacht, yacht rock, explores the origins rising influence of the genre that's been both celebrated and

mocked over the years. let's bring in now the director of the film, garrett price. garrett, i must say, i am a i used to be a rock snob. i would look at yacht rock the same way that donald fagen would look at yacht rock. what blew my mind here, though, and what i didn't understand, is at the time there were all of these r&b musicians. there were black musicians, you know, we just saw like questlove going, you know, perfect sitting down dance music, kind of a slight, but thundercat like, don't get him going on about michael mcdonald's voice. i mean, so it's crazy. what i learned from this documentary is really crossed a lot of musical boundaries that i never thought at the time it was crossing. >> thank you so much, joe. yeah, it was really important for me to highlight and for these artists to highlight, you know, the influence. >> of black. >> music in their music. i think that's one of the reasons a lot of them were so allergic to the

word yacht rock to begin with. because let's be real, it sounds like rich white yuppie music. and that was against everything they believed in and the influence of their music. so they really wanted to get across the importance of, of jazz and r&b and soul and gospel to their pop music. and when you merge that to the music they were making in the 70s, you get what we know now as yacht rock. >> yeah. and by the way, i really sort of the foundation of it was a band that wanted nothing to do with it. and that is steely dan, of course, extraordinary musicians who had extraordinary session musicians coming in. we won't ruin the ending for you, but do not tell becker or fagen. you know, in their day that they were part of this phenomenon. but every yacht rock band said they went back to the extraordinary musicianship of these two guys. >> yeah, we really make a case

that steely dan is basically the big bang of yacht rock, you know? and it makes a lot of sense when you really explore the music they were making and all the musicians they brought in to play on those records, because really steely dan was just walter becker and donald fagen and the best studio session guys in l.a. at that time. and all these session players took what they learned from playing with steely dan out into their own music. and that was kind of the genesis of the sound in la and how it, like pop music in the landscape of music in la was changing from their laurel canyon folkier stuff in the early 70s to this more well crafted, jazz infused pop music in the late 70s. >> yeah. and, you know, it's very interesting that, again, steely dan was sort of they were the foundation of it, even though they would never want to admit that. but michael mcdonald, a guy who was like a punch line and i think it was 40 year old virgin, i mean, a guy

who was like, mocked as being the whitest guy ever. you. i mean, he's the star of this. and again, man, a lot of admiration from from across musical genres. >> yeah. we call michael our yacht father, right? i mean, he had his finger on all this music. and, you know, i think that's why it was so important for me to bring in contemporary artists like questlove and thundercat into this, this film and prince paul of de la soul, because, you know, like you said, these guys have been such pop culture punchlines for so long, but their music they were making is so influential to modern musicians. and i think once you have people talking about that and people kind of take the irony out of this genre, this subgenre, because of the name, really appreciate the musicianship and the artistry and the art these guys were making. and that was the goal of this film. i, i went in telling

all these musicians, i want to have a fun movie, but i don't want to make fun of any of you. and i think they really respected that and appreciated that because they haven't had a chance to talk about their time of making music. i think a lot of people go straight to like fleetwood mac or the eagles in 1970s los angeles. yet these guys were in these studios day and night, making this music and making hit music. this stuff was dominating the billboard charts and radio and the grammys. and i think people kind of over the years. >> yeah. let me ask you, is there a particular song or a, you know, for the beatles? i want to hold your hand launched it. sergeant peppers was the album. is there a particular song or an album that you think really encapsulates yacht rock? >> i think we make a case that what a fool believes is, is the song to compare all yacht rock songs. it gets a 100 on the yahtzee scale, what we call. so i think if you start there and you see the influence of that song and, and the sound of that song and how it changed music, there's a world we before, what

a fool believes and a world afterwards. and you really see how influential that music was. so i would say you start there and you go from there. >> yeah. and do you want to tell everybody about donald fagen and your, your, your, your luck with him and trying to get him to talk about yacht rock? >> yeah. so i have what you call the mount rushmore of yacht rockers in this film. you know, kenny loggins, michael mcdonald, christopher cross, the guys from toto. the one artist i was missing was donald fagen. and again, we make the case that steely dan was the beginning of all of this. and for months, i was trying to get donald to sit down for an interview, and finally he agreed to have a phone call with me. and i recorded that phone call and used whatever he says in the film. he would license all his music, and he calls me at 3:00 in the afternoon, i record it. that was the phone call, and five minutes later his manager, irving azoff, called and said, donald has granted all his music

for the film. so i think i think donald gets it in a week. yeah. so i think he gets it. i think he's kind of trolling all of us in a in a fun way. so i love it, you know? and i think he gets it. so it was it honestly it was like the perfect button for this film. having that we create the mythology of donald fagen. and then of course he tears it all down at the end. yeah. >> so perfect. perfect for it. all right. yacht rock documentary documentary is streaming now on max mika. and i saw it. absolutely loved it. director garret price, thank you so much. and that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. >> right now on ana cabrera reports. >> u.s. troops. >> deployed to the southern border as immigration enforcement power is expanding across several federal agencies. we're live in texas and at the white house. plus, president trump defends pardoning january 6th rioters who attacked