>> and yet, reconciliation is also the only way to do this in a partizan process. and we know how tribal america's politics have gotten. former congressman carlos curbelo, thanks for getting up with us and breaking it all down. that was way too early for this friday morning. have a good weekend. but first morning joe starts right now. >> trump has. he's issued a number of executive orders. some of them are awful. some are just blatantly unconstitutional. but one of them, i have to admit, i'm a little bit excited about. >> lastly, sir, we have an executive order ordering the declassification. >> of files relating. >> to the. >> assassinations of president john f kennedy, senator robert f kennedy, and the reverend doctor martin luther king junior. >> that's a big one. >> a lot of people are. >> waiting for this one along for years. for decades. >> and everything will be revealed.

>> ten bucks says we're going to find out joe biden killed jfk. >> all right, good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is friday. anybody happy about that? anyone. anyone raise your hand. >> happy friday. >> yes. >> well, here we go. >> january 24th. we have. >> a lot to get to this morning, including pete hegseth. s nomination for defense secretary, which cleared a key hurdle yesterday. today we'll. >> look at where support. >> stands for the former fox news. host ahead of an. expected final vote today in the senate. plus, president trump delivers the first international speech of his new term. we'll have the key moments from his address to business and political leaders. also ahead, we'll bring you. the very latest on. >> the wildfires. >> still burning in southern california. as the president says he will get a. >> firsthand look at the devastation. >> and another. former trump administration. >> official is. >> losing his security detail. >> despite threats.

>> from foreign groups. we'll talk about that along with joe, willie and me. we have. >> the co-host. >> of our. fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing. >> writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics, managing editor at the bulwark. sam stein, white house reporter for the washington post, jackie alemany and the host of way too early. ali vitali is with us. so, joe, it's a busy friday. >> we have a huge friday. and, you know, because sam stein. >> is here and. >> he's fascinated. >> by this blake. >> lively story, we're going to be covering that in the 7:00 hour. finally we have pablo. >> we have pablo. >> coming on. >> in 30 minutes. >> we've got a. >> lot of stuff. >> going on today. >> i do want to. >> start, though, with what you read off the top, the news off the top. the wall street journal has written about it, where they talk about some ex-trump officials losing security. this is what they say in their editorial in the wall street journal editorial page today, a

murdoch paper, trump leaves ex-aides unprotected. the possibility of falling out of president trump's good graces is an occupational hazard for good people who serve in his administration, but this looks like a new low. mr. trump reportedly has ordered an end to security protection for three former advisers who are living under the threat of assassination by iran. pray it won't happen. but what if one of them now gets attacked? if iran commits violence against any of these men? mr. trump won't be able to escape responsibility. also, what does secretary of state marco rubio supposed to think about the boss's refusal to protect his predecessor? the wall street journal editorial page. obviously, really a lot of people talking about this. but again, these these men are under threat of death by iran because they were the ones that helped carry out the attack on soleimani back when they were

serving for none other than donald trump. >> yeah, i mean, that's exactly the point, which is they are under threat because of the orders they received from donald trump, because of the policies of the trump administration. and now, for petty revenge reasons, some grievance that donald trump has, you have to dig deep to remember what it is he's pulling. according to all this reporting security for not just mike pompeo, but others. john bolton we talked about a couple of days ago, but one of the top aides to mike pompeo, also having his security pulled somebody who was at his side for all of these decisions. so when donald trump promised retribution during the campaign, it turns out he meant it. when he promised to empty the jails of january 6th. convicts, it turns out he meant it. so we're learning in this very first week, these first few days of the trump administration, if people didn't already, to take seriously his threats. >> well, you know, mika, what's so fascinating about this list is, of course, people have seen that john bolton has been

critical of donald trump, mike pompeo, not so much so, but brian hook, what's so fascinating about brian hook is and some of the people in washington are asking the question why? he's a guy who, you know, kept his head down, a professional and professional who's an envoy to iran and didn't get out there attacking anybody, stayed nonpolitical. so it is it is deeply perplexing to a lot of people why his security clearance got pulled. and of course, obviously disturbing that the others, too, did, when, again, like president trump, they are under direct threat from the iranian government. >> yeah. to our. >> top story. now. >> president trump's pick. >> to. >> lead the. central intelligence agency was confirmed on a bipartisan basis yesterday. john ratcliffe, trump's former director of national intelligence and a former republican congressman from texas, was confirmed 74 to 25, with 21 democrats voting in

favor of his nomination. he was sworn into office shortly after the vote. meanwhile, the final senate vote on pete hegseth nomination as defense secretary is expected to be held tonight after he narrowly cleared a required procedural vote. yesterday, 51 senators voted to move forward with his nomination. two republicans senators lisa murkowski of alaska and susan collins of maine, sided with democrats in voting against hegseth. senator murkowski announced her opposition ahead of the vote, writing in a statement, quote, the leader of the department of defense must demonstrate and model the standards of behavior and character we expect of all service members. and mr. hegseth s nomination to the role poses significant concerns that i cannot overlook. senator susan collins also explained her

decision in a statement, noting hegseth. s changing position on women in combat roles. quote, he and i had a candid conversation in december about his past statements and apparently evolving views. i am not convinced that his position on women serving in combat roles has changed. now, republicans can only afford to lose one more vote if that occurs, vice president jd vance would have to vote in favor to break the tie and confirm hegseth. senator mitch mcconnell chose to advance hegseth to a final vote, but has not signaled he is not sold on his. but he has signaled that he's not sold on his nomination. and senator thom tillis told reporters yesterday he was still looking into allegations that hegseth denies. >> votes in favor of closing the day. so i'm still examining the

record and what i've what i've tried to explain to everyone and i some people are getting it is i go through extensive due diligence. if people want to reach out to me and want to talk about their account, i do it. i have talked to numerous people. i've spent hours on the phone. i have yet to find. i see these accounts. i've yet to find one instance of a first hand account with corroboration to support the allegations. if i find that, then it would influence my vote. >> well, you know that that is fascinating. what thom tillis said. we we've heard that several several of the whistleblower reports were actually blocked by republicans. so those people that made those complaints couldn't come forward with it. it'd be interesting to see if thom tillis has tried to reach out to those. so first of

all, with with the ratcliffe vote, another fairly bipartisan vote like marco rubio and like several others that are going through and i like we suspect, the treasury secretary nominee will also breeze through. but but on pete hegseth, you have, of course, mitch mcconnell. and we just heard there, thom tillis, i still am wondering about two people. have we heard yet from. senator young, who again, has committed his life to strengthening the united states military and certainly understands that pete hegseth is not qualified, regardless of these allegations, to be secretary of defense at this stage of his life. and also, if we heard anything from dave mccormick, a west point grad who's not up for reelection for six years and certainly understands as well as anybody on capitol hill that pete

hegseth is not up to the challenges of serving in the pentagon. john. yeah. >> so a few things here. first of all, on. >> ratcliffe, much. >> like rubio, the bipartisan. >> support, there. >> are some. >> democrats who have signaled they don't necessarily agree with all of his beliefs, but they think he is qualified for the role and therefore he is going to he was confirmed without much in the way of opposition. hegseth is a different matter. there are big questions here. some late breaking revelations in these last few days. you know, former family members stepping forward, more witness accounts coming forward, some with names attached, which for some republicans, deeply important. and we now have, as tom tillis suggested, these last 24 hours. he he yes, he moved to advance but now has these last few moments here to do some last minute investigating and perhaps soul searching. we heard from collins and murkowski, two senators. their opposition was expected and both delivered pretty strong statements as to why they couldn't support this candidate. so the question is,

is there one more that would force the vice president to break a tie, or perhaps two more? senator young has suggested he will support pete hegseth that to answer one of your questions. so we will see if anything changes in the last 24 hours in these final 24 hours. i've also been told there are some republicans who have misgivings about hegseth, but might be saving their no vote for tulsi gabbard, thinking they can only do one for fear of really alienating president trump. and they think gabbard even less qualified than hegseth. so, ali, let's go to you. you obviously cover the hill each and every day. what's the latest you've heard here about the momentum? could there be a late breaking no vote or two that could jeopardize his nomination when the vote is taken this evening? >> well, these are the four names that we've been talking about for the entirety of the hegseth nominating fight. it's always been murkowski, collins, mcconnell, and, of course, thom tillis. but what i hear in that thom tillis statement is that he might be pointing to the pitfalls of the background check

process. and certainly all of us here have talked about that, how it's not been a wholehearted and far reaching process with clear, glaring gaps. but what tillis is saying there is he's leaving himself an out for if and when he does end up voting to confirm hegseth. the lack of first person accounts is what he's looking for and has yet to find. but there are probably reasons for that, including but not limited to something that our team reported late last night, which is that there was a non-disparagement clause in headsets second divorce, and that might prevent his second wife from coming out and talking about the pieces of their marriage that have been alleged. this idea that she was fearing for herself, for her safety, that there might have been threats of abuse. that's something that our team had reported on. and so there could be explanations for why tillis has not yet been able to find a first person account. but what i see in that statement is not someone who is looking for the way to lay the groundwork to getting to know. he's also a 2026 senator up for reelection.

we know primary challenges have been a key threat over the course of this process, and that's certainly something that's not far from mind for folks on the hill, either. >> so, you know, sam stein? yeah. todd young said last week that he was going to support pete hegseth in this vote last night. we should point out the senator, dave mccormick, the new incoming senator. he's here now, incoming senator from pennsylvania who is also a combat veteran. he voted to move forward to the final vote, but also has signaled his support for pete hegseth. so do you see anything derailing hegseth confirmation at this point? and if not, where are, as jon pointed out, where are republicans looking? because next thursday, six days from now, you have the confirmation hearings for both tulsi gabbard and kash patel. are some republicans holding their no votes? perhaps for one of those two nominees? well, first of all, when do we get to blake lively? >> like that's why. >> that's why. >> right. keep your powder dry. >> yeah. >> let's be clear. i was asked

to talk about one thing this morning on on the hegseth nomination. i think this is not performative, because obviously there are two republican senators who have come out in opposition to it. but when you see, like alex said, when you see thom tillis statement, it's clear to me that what he's saying, in essence, is i'm open minded, but i haven't seen anything yet that will dissuade me from voting for it. and we got hints yesterday that the expectation is a very narrow vote, potentially a 5050 vote, but that hegseth will be confirmed ultimately and notable here. look, obviously there's a ton of scandal around this. this has been an incredibly messy confirmation process. but i thought collins statement was the most notable one, which is i don't believe you. in essence, i don't believe your conversions that you say you've had on women in combat are real. and it gets to the fundamental issue with hags. if that wasn't, in essence, you know, convincing enough for all republicans, which is that he's not really compared to anyone else for this

post, qualified for it. he just doesn't have the qualifications for it. that got overshadowed by some of the more salacious allegations against him, which in a way actually allowed republicans to get over that. the other qualification issue. now, willie, as to your other point, like what does this mean for other nominations? i've been talking to republicans on the hill. the biggest one that they think is at risk would be tulsi gabbard's, that she's not had the confirmation hearing. meetings with senators that have gone well, like the others have. in fact, some of the senators have left those meetings saying they still have questions that they need to answer. i was in a briefing with one republican member of congress who went through all of the controversial ones hegseth, rfk, jr. patel, and they were pretty bullish on all of them. and then it got to gabbard. and it's like, you know, she still has work to do. but i also talked to him and i'll shut up after this. but i also talked to a lobbyist, a republican lobbyist on the hill, who said the issue here is that if any of these nominees go down, it hurts. john thune and

john thune has to deliver these nominees for trump and the establishment. republicans want thune to remain senate majority leader. so they have that other calculation that they have to consider when making this vote. >> okay, we'll be following that today. >> you know. >> joe. >> yeah, i've just got to say, i mean, first of all, you have people that have again served in the military. you have dave mccormick, who willie just said is going to support dave mccormick knows he knows pete hegseth is not qualified to run the pentagon. he knows that. so and he's not up for six years. so that's fascinating. you can say the same thing for todd young. he knows pete hegseth is not qualified. so you you you look at these votes and some of them are just again just absolutely baffling that they

say, well, you know, we can't vote against two people. so we're going to let this guy with a thousand different questions about him. and he's not qualified to run it. we're going to let him run the most important bureaucracy in the world, and he's going to be in the, like, nuclear line of succession here. and i don't i don't i don't know, i guess i'm too naive. i don't understand that that line of thinking. >> yeah, well we're going to follow this as it a lot of it could happen today, at least late into the day. in other news, house speaker mike johnson is denying a washington post report that claims an aide to johnson advised republicans last year to not reach out to former white house aide cassidy hutchinson for their january 6th capitol riot investigation because of sexually explicit texts to lawmakers sent to her.

nbc news has not seen the document the washington post story cites and has not been able to independently verify the reporting. this comes as speaker johnson is launching a new select committee to investigate the attack, and the democratic party's probe into it. >> there's no reason to issue a subpoena because cassidy hutchinson was volunteering to participate and come, presumably because she wanted to try to sell more books. it didn't make sense to give her any more attention. she had already testified. there's all these allegations that somebody on my staff was communicating with somebody else on staff. i don't i'm not privy to all my staff's conversations, but that didn't have anything to do with me. so you don't want to do about nothing. >> so, jackie, this is your reporting. so this involves texts that were sent to her and if revealed, it would be damaging to republican lawmakers. what were these texts? yeah. well, i want to be clear. we haven't actually reviewed. >> the alleged. >> text message, the purported text messages that members

approached an. >> aide in mike johnson's. >> house about warning her that if. >> if, if. >> elevated by cassidy. >> hutchinson, potentially through a subpoena. >> and through discovery, that these text messages could. >> potentially be. >> made public. >> and provide embarrassing. fodder and information. >> about members of congress. that that would be unnecessary. the. >> past year, obviously, cassidy. >> hutchinson has been a central. target of the counter effort to investigate. >> the january 6th. >> investigation and. >> essentially rereport the report completed by the house. >> select committee. >> that investigated. >> it and. >> finished their report. >> in 2022. >> that was led by liz cheney. >> they've accused liz cheney. >> of witness tampering, as with regards to cassidy. hutchinson as a part. >> of sort of recruiting her to. be a. >> part of their investigation, but notably did not subpoena her or call her in to testify under oath. now, cassidy hutchinson's

lawyer, provided a statement for us saying that cassidy hutchinson has willingly cooperated with the investigation and that a subpoena wouldn't be necessary. but there are people who are involved with the probe who who told the post that that was a source of contention and disagreement. >> and. >> that mike johnson also was against bringing cassidy in and elevating her story, though he did not echo the. sentiments about. >> there being. sexually explicit. >> text messages. >> and concern about that. >> instead, as you just heard, what he. said was he was worried about. >> embarrassing, unnecessary information. >> being raised and elevated again. by hutchinson providing a platform for her. i just have to understand you're talking about grown men, republican lawmakers sending what? that's a very good question. but again, we have not actually reviewed any of these purported text messages or seen them. just know that members raised concerns to mike

johnson's office about the potential release of whatever these texts may be, but we do know that they were purported to be sexually explicit and highly inappropriate enough for an aide to raise concerns. and communicate that to the staff of the. the lawmaker, barry loudermilk, who was conducting the investigation and speaker johnson denies it. i guess we'll follow this. thank you. jackie, stay with us. still ahead on morning joe, the latest from los angeles, where multiple wildfires are burning right now, crews are gaining ground on one fast moving blaze as some much needed rain is being forecast this weekend. also ahead, when it comes to the southern border, republicans are making it clear democrats won't be part of the conversation when it comes to passing president trump's immigration priorities. we'll immigration priorities. we'll dig into that. morning joe is

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groundbreaking information, trump told reporters yesterday, quote, everything will be revealed. new data shows a new record number of people are making just the minimum payments on their credit cards. more consumers are also falling into delinquency, as the average interest rates have soared, according to the fed. average credit card rates are about 50% higher than three years ago. by one measure, it would take 22 years and cost 18 grand in interest to pay off $10,000 in debt. and the new york post is reporting on a study that shows smartphones are making teenagers more aggressive, detached from reality, and even causing them to hallucinate. according to one psychologist quoted in the piece. screen time essentially acts as a toxin that stunts both brain development and social

development. a staggering 37% of 13 year olds reported experiencing aggression. the researchers also warned the phones are making kids withdraw from society. and willie, as i toss to you, it's especially i kids who have their phones all night long and they're just scrolling and up all night. hi, joe. >> yeah, i'm joe, the other guy is willie. we'll go to him in a second. but we were. we did worry about this, though. i mean, and we saw it firsthand when prep school phenom sam stein came on set right as smartphones were coming in. and he went through all these things that you were talking about little sam went through when he was in prep school. and i think, oh, look at him right now. see? look at that, willie. >> that is the truth. sam is doing a very good imitation of today's teenager. >> he's still doing it, you

know. willie, i actually i saw a doctor. this is fascinating. i saw a doctor. and i'm sure you you may have seen the clip, too, saying that she would rather her teenager smoke cigarettes than be addicted to a smartphone. because if they only smoke cigarettes, like, for a couple of years in their teens, their body could actually heal itself. but unfortunately, so much of the wiring for the brain goes on between, you know, 13 and 18, 19, 20 that she's very worried that the neurological defects stay with the children even as they move beyond the teenage years. willie. >> yeah, i mean, it's not even a debate anymore. books have been written, studies have been done. they've been terrible. you can look at social anxiety, depression, suicide rates among teenagers since the advent of the smartphone and social media. it's all right there in the data. and you're right. a lot of us have noticed how aggressive sam stein has become. he frothing at the mouth. it's horrible. ever since the ever

since the iphone came out. he is he's a different guy and a lot of us are scared of him. quite frankly, we keep him at a safe. well, keep him at a safe distance. i gotta i gotta read up. >> why do you think he's in a box right now, man? i mean, yeah, we keep we keep him in a box. i went to a baseball game with him at fenway a few years ago, and, i mean, he was just climbing over the seats and taking people's nachos, like, give me the phone. you can't go out with him. the smartphone has completely changed him. >> absolutely. sam, you're you're. go ahead. sam. go ahead. well, i just feel like i'm being maligned here, you know? how are you supposed to keep on your blake lively news if you don't have your smartphone on you at all times, you got to. got to check on your feeds here. >> yeah. >> sam, we're going to get to your blake lively coverage in just a moment. but that is very. i have not been following the blake lively thing at all. i just want to be clear. i don't know how this started. i don't

come to me for it. please. it's going to be embarrassing. all right, all right. >> sam. >> just chill, man. chill. but, yeah, that is a huge story. as the parent of parent of two teenagers, the phone. the phone story is the story of our time, for sure. all right, let's get to the fires again. now, in southern california, crews working to get several of them under control this morning. some much needed rain is expected over the weekend, but that is prompting concerns now about possible mudslides. nbc news correspondent liz kreuz has the latest. >> reporter relentless. >> santa ana. >> winds sparking multiple. >> new fires. >> across southern california. >> forcing firefighters into what seems like a. volatile game of whack a mole. from ventura county to san diego to. los angeles, a brush fire ignited near the famous getty center, closing. >> in. >> on one of the. >> city's busiest highways and prompting evacuation. warnings in bel air. >> i can see it. >> spreading in both directions. >> crews knocking it down while also waging a massive. >> air and ground attack. >> to. >> get a. >> handle on the hughes fire in

north l.a. county, which forced. 30,000 people from their homes. >> we were able to get a lot of personnel and equipment on scene in a relatively short amount of time. >> across southern california. 10 million people facing dangerous fire conditions. >> with up. >> to 70 mile per hour winds, but rain now in the forecast after months of bone dry conditions. >> rain. is it. >> a good thing or a bad thing. >> right now? what's predicted looks. >> like a. >> good thing. >> because it's not a lot. but we're not taking any chances. >> the rain. >> is also bringing concerns about. mudslides with unstable land and the. burn scars and all this toxic debris. >> crews clearing debris, installing concrete barriers and giving out sandbags to shore up vulnerable areas. >> if the rain does. >> pound for a significant period of time, there will be a slide. >> despite a city on edge, multiple schools near altadena reopening for the first time since the eaton fire. >> some of my best friends might have lost their homes. i only know one whose house burned to the ground, so that was a sad

thing. >> now the baby. >> an attempt to return to normalcy as the fire threat looms large. >> liz kreutz reporting from los angeles county there jonathan lemire. president trump will travel to the fire zone later today, but that will be after he visits north carolina, which is still devastated by the flooding that happened after hurricane helene. tens of billions of dollars of damage there. more than 100 people died. he's been very critical. he was during the campaign of the federal response there in north carolina. so a long and busy day for the president today. yeah, he's heading to both disaster sites. first, as you say, western north carolina. hurricane helene, he's going to tour the damaged areas, promise some sort of federal help. but and then he heads out to california and look for presidents. these trips to disaster zones are usually moments to unify, to say we'll set aside politics and you just work together to help the republicans and democrats alike here on the ground who have

suffered in his first term. first term. donald trump didn't often do that. he politicized a lot of these events. he certainly did during this past campaign as well. we will have to see what happens today. one note of note he is inviting congressman schiff, who is deeply critical of, to join him for touring the california disaster zone. schiff, of course, represents that state. the now the senator schiff, i should say newly elevated. and then gavin newsom, the governor of california, who, of course, is another political foe of donald trump, is going to meet him at the airport when he arrives in california. so we'll have to see what tone all of these men take here. if past is prolog, trump could make it political. we'll see. and then as a final note, he then heads to las vegas tomorrow for just one week into his term, already holding his first rally. yeah. and senator schiff, by the way, will be our guest here in a couple of hours on morning joe, president trump will be greeted at the airport in asheville, north carolina, the first stop by the new democratic governor of north carolina, josh stein. so it'll be interesting to watch all the dynamics there. coming

up, we'll take a quick break from news and politics and talk to our friend pablo torre to preview championship weekend in the nfl playoffs. pablo next on morning joe. >> nothing to do, nowhere to go. i wanna be sedated. just put me in a wheelchair. get me on a plane. hurry, hurry, hurry. before i go insane and can't control my fingers i can't control my fingers i can't control my brain. ho ho ho you don't stop being you just because you turn 65. but, you do face more risk from flu and covid. last year alone, those viruses hospitalized nearly 1 million people 65 and older. 1 million. vaccines lower your risk of getting really sick, so you can keep doing you.

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litter. join the whisker family and try a litter robot today. >> 36 past the hour. american madison keys will play in a grand slam final for the second time in her career, eight years after her runner up finish at the u.s. open. keys has earned another swing at a major, rallying from a set down yesterday to upset second seeded iga swiatek and advance to the australian open final. keys will meet two time defending champion aryna sabalenka in the title match tomorrow night. on the men's side, alexander zverev got a free pass through the semis after novak djokovic retired midway through the match with an injury. zverev had just secured an 81 minute first set in a tiebreak when djokovic, who was playing with a muscle tear in his left leg, conceded the contest and confirmed zverev spot in sunday's final. zverev will take on top ranked italian

jannik sinner, who advanced this morning after eliminating american ben shelton in straight sets. so, joe, i love the polish iga swiatek. i like her. >> i mean, it was an incredible tie breaker. it was a ten point tie breaker and iga was ahead through most of the tie breaker. and so incredible ending there. and djokovic of course. it's always fun watching pardon the interruption and hearing the back and forth on wilbon, calling djokovic the goat and saying if you won this time, he definitely would be the goat. not so in this case, willie. the wall street journal has a headline the buffalo bills have a chiefs problem. the solution weighs 1,909 pounds. and they talk about their massive offensive line and how the bills use the jumbo package. >> they use. >> they use six six linemen instead of five. and it's worked

this year. the bills, the wall street journal records have averaged the most yards per, per, per down and also scored the most touchdowns. so i do think if there's a year, as i said, a couple of weeks ago when pablo said, no, no, don't do it, i think if there's a year that josh allen and these bills can stop the chiefs, this is the year. >> we'll see. they got to go on the road again. they did beat the chiefs. the only team to beat the chiefs this season beat them earlier this season. but it's a different gear for these chiefs when they get to the playoffs. but this is clearly a more flawed chiefs team that has been in past years, had so many narrow victories. lucky bounces, bad calls. you could argue last week go in their favor. we'll see if they get lucky again this weekend. so the finalists for the nfl mvp were josh allen right now, joe burrow, jared goff, lamar jackson and saquon barkley. loan running back in the group, finalists for the

mvp. that announcement came yesterday, but just two of those star players are still in contention for the lombardi trophy, set to play in conference championships this weekend. the eagles will count on barkley heavily sunday to carry them through the nfc title game against division rival the washington commanders sunday night in the afc, allen and the bills head out on the road to arrowhead, where they will try to stop the two time defending champion chiefs from booking a third straight trip to the super bowl as they seek a three peat. joining us now, the host of pablo torre finds out on meadowlark media. msnbc contributor pablo torre. pablo, good to see you. good morning. all right. viewers guide for the weekend. what are you going to be watching? >> yeah, i mean, let's start in chronological order. i mean, the commanders eagles thing, we'll start there because they're going to give us that first. the commanders are in an interesting position, like an. ncaa tournament position. >> to me. >> they have obviously the hottest team right now, but also they have the best player right

now when it comes to just look at this matchup. compare every position group. the eagles have at every other position than quarterback an advantage. but at the most important one, it's the rookie having the greatest rookie season, i think, in nfl history. and so for me, as much as the eagles have all that lily i'm i'm leaning commanders here. i really am. >> you know, the thing is, it's so hard to say how a rookie and how an up and coming team is going to perform as the stakes get higher every week. and of course, when you're at the nfc championship game, that's as high as it gets. i i've been thinking that too this week that it's certainly a possibility because like the chiefs, the eagles at times have won ugly have just sort of you know they ground their their their opponents out. if jayden daniels is hot, if he takes it to the next level, this is going to be yeah a really fascinating game.

either side could win. but i'm with you. daniels could do it. >> yeah look look. jalen hurts to me your guy right. alabama's own jalen hurts right. he's been struggling and he's been hurting. and that has been an issue. so the defense of the eagles to be clear probably the best in the league at every position certainly at running back. they have saquon barkley aforementioned. we've talked about him all year. but beyond that it's like can jayden daniels be the guy where you strap a heart rate monitor to him and you're like, this guy shows signs of calmness in live fire. and that's what we've seen. and i just think when you're when you're at aa2 minute drill scenario, you want the guy who's most calm. and the guy i trust the most right now is jayden daniels. and i like that stock. >> yeah, certainly. we have seen cinderella playoff runs before pablo sort of end when the when the they face a tough defense. the eagles the great defense they can run the ball.

>> they're really good. >> their home. but daniels is special. and it's also a division game they won't be scared of. >> nfc east tends to be messy historically. >> yeah. so let's turn now to the marquee matchup. the 630 game on sunday. it is it is bills and chiefs. the bills, as willie said, beat the chiefs during the regular season. but the chiefs are undefeated three. and oh against them in the playoffs. you know that they will have home field advantage. that is a tough, tough place to play. my heart is with the bills. i think a lot of america is ready for something different. they'd love to see josh allen, that long suffering fan base back in the super bowl. man, it's tough to bet against the chiefs. >> yeah look comeuppance is overdue. a revolution is brewing against kansas city. claire mccaskill, of course, is trying to suppress that revolution at every turn. >> she's wrong. she's not here to defend herself. >> but i can feel her. i can feel her presence. i bet. >> you can. >> look, i love the movie amadeus, and i bring that up. i bring that up, mika, to bring you in. but also. but but also because when i see mahomes and i see josh allen, i'm reminded of mozart and salieri, respectively.

>> it was a good movie. >> salieri, just for people, not only a great character and a great movie, a good, if not great composer in his own right. the issue is, as much as they are four and four. by the way, joe allen and mahomes are four and four head to head career, right? salieri. josh allen is zero three in the postseason. and so this is the thing we talk about in sports. when the spotlight turns up, when the heat gets turned up, who becomes better and who becomes worse. and when you're going up against. wolfgang amadeus mozart, maybe we should stop pretending that they're the same guy. and i love josh allen, i do. it's just it's just really hard to bet against, like to get against mozart. yes, yes, yeah. >> it is, but we'll see what happens. i mean, you know, rivalries are one sided until they're not. of course, we saw what the red sox did to the yankees in zero four, and that

changed everything. yeah, that that changed everything. says thank you for the opening there. i want to quickly go around, and i want to ask everybody the mvp choice. and willie, let's start with you. i mean, you know, i understand you want to make the vote before the playoffs are over. i you know there no doubt about it. the mvp for the regular season was lamar jackson. i love lamar but but how do you name somebody an mvp that can't ever take their team to the promised land? it's supposed to be most valuable player. the person who takes i mean, if we're just going by season, i mean joe burrow could get it. i mean, nobody was hotter than him the second half of the season. but, you know, if josh allen. if josh allen takes his team to the super bowl, it's going to be kind of strange having lamar jackson once again, who had the best season regular season, lamar winning the mvp again. i just think they need to

push the voting back because it does matter how you play in december and january. >> yeah, but the mvp awards never really been the most valuable player. it's been the best player. and lamar jackson clearly had the best year. and he would never say this because he's a classy and good teammate. but he might be playing this weekend if not for a couple of terrible dropped passes by his always reliable tight end. so i, i think lamar is probably the easy pick here. and i would say it doesn't go to running backs much anymore. but saquon barkley had an absolutely incredible year. and as a giants fan i can't root for the eagles exactly. but i am rooting for him. so if they won, i'd be very, very happy for saquon barkley because he's a great guy and a phenomenal player and he deserves it. >> and by the way, if you're talking about the most valuable player who's who's you know sort of the war equivalent in baseball. i mean the guy that's made the biggest difference. sam

stein it's hard not to say that it is barkley. i mean, he gave the eagles a jolt and it gave him. yeah. wait, have you been on your phone, like, all year on blake lively or do you have you actually followed the nfl? can you answer this question? i have, i. >> have, i have. >> i gave my mvp. >> it's got to. >> be your mvp. >> daniel jones man what a year. oh my god. no no i had my giants are terrible obviously. i have an affinity a love for saquon. i like willie i am so happy for the year he's had. and it's remarkable to see all that talent unlocked. and frankly, i do think it's a little bit weird that we just overlook running backs at this point in time. so i would actually cast my vote for him. i but this is ultimately improbable. i this is right. i'm assuming this is a regular season award. so unfortunately, you know, because obviously the playoff heroics in

our mind, in our estimation they matter and they should. and they're the ultimate arbiter of like how successful you are for your team. but this is a regular season award. so i'm with you that it's going to end up with lamar. >> okay. keep the brady box bunch up. alex says we have to go but i'm going to go around very quickly. mvp jonathan lamar who. >> i think it's going to be josh allen because i think it's a narrative award i think he's going to win. yeah, it is. >> it is a narrative award. it shouldn't be ali who's the mvp this year. >> i'm with my fellow suffering giants fans saquon barkley mika you talk about know your value. that is a guy who knew his value. oh my god. giants fans are going to be crying over that especially with the mvp. >> yeah yeah he should be jackie your mvp. >> i wish. >> i could play along with this and tell you that i. >> just googled. >> who the mvp should. >> be on her phone. >> yes. okay. you've been busy. >> unlike sam, i. >> didn't rush to figure it out on chatgpt. i will just go with ali's pick. as a fellow.

>> new yorker. yeah. look, none of us should collapse onto fainting couches. if it's saquon or lamar or josh allen. all of them are deserving. honestly. parody in the contest. excuse me. just announce it before the postseason. it's a regular season award. give it to him before it looks dumb that you gave it to the guy who just choked in the playoffs. even though he's a three time mvp, it's lamar jackson. it will be lamar jackson. >> okay host of pablo tory finds out on meadowlark media pablo tory thank you by the way pablo. >> and make it your answer. >> yes i'm with ali vitale. >> your answer for mvp. >> i'm with ali vitali. >> okay. >> yeah. by the way, pablo mentioned amadeus and the men who won the academy award for playing salieri. f murray abraham will be our guest on morning joe on monday. >> whoa. that was. i call him f me and f hang out all the time. yeah. >> synergy. still ahead, we'll speak with former u.s. ambassador to japan rahm emanuel on president trump's return to the white house and how leaders overseas view his comeback.

plus, senator a the conversatios concerns surrounding newly confirmed cia director john ratcliffe. also ahead, we'll show you my sit down interview with academy award winning actress michelle yeoh. where we discuss joe's historic, lengthy career in hollywood. morning joe career in hollywood. morning joe will be right back. it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. pulling in the perfect team to get the job done. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball... arrggghh! ahhhh! [crashing sounds] we had everything we needed. is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up. the next level network for small business. ♪♪ i sold a pillow! with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place,

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morning joe. a beautiful shot of capitol hill. chilly capitol hill at 6:54 a.m. in the morning. hey, lamar, i got a question for you. what do you what do you think mika has against murray abraham? >> what? >> what did i do? >> well, you said f murray abraham, and he is. joe is invoking the tattoo joke that involved f scott fitzgerald, which led to the characters misunderstood that f was the initial the first name, and thought that it was somewhat insulting that character. mika. so this. i know you're a big movie buff. you it's rare. >> that i say. >> something wrong. no, you didn't. >> at all. are you sure? >> yes. >> this is. no, no, no, you did not. you will. we'll. we'll show you, ted, to. >> impacting my confidence. >> no, no. >> seth mcfarland's movie. and mark wahlberg's. and many people say, if you like, name the top three movies of all time. you got to put citizen kane,

godfather two, and ted two, which, again, a lot of people will he done. a lot of people say it's remarkable that ted two actually liked the godfather series. may have been better than ted one, especially when they started talking about f scott fitzgerald. >> they just keep getting better. mark wahlberg at his peak, and seth. wow. wow. mila kunis, you can go down the list. the cast there. mika. highly recommend ted two, which you will hate. >> all right. >> well i will. you will despise it. >> you will despise it. kind of like. kind of like. so mika and i like we compared notes on wedding crashers, and mika said that she left after 15 minutes. >> i did. >> i, i actually was almost taken out of the theater at one point because i was laughing so hard. when will ferrell appeared on the stairs and they said, sir, you're going to need to

need to stop laughing so loudly you're disturbing everybody else. so yeah, i she may not like ted 1 or 2, but we'll see this weekend. >> when i told bradley cooper about that, because he came on the show and i was like, that was the worst. yeah. and he was good about it. i think he might have agreed deep inside. oh, was it the hangover? >> yeah. >> that was the. yeah. >> alex. >> he has a great movie. >> no. no, you were. no, no, you you. actually, i think you insulted wedding crashers as well again. i did. that's easily one of the top five movies of our time, right? i don't know where you balance it between the other guys and semi-pro, but it's in there. all right. all right. mika, i think back. >> to business. okay. former congressman and white house chief of staff rahm emanuel has spent the last three years in japan as u.s. ambassador during president biden's term, and he has returned stateside to a new reality in america. donald trump

is back in the white house, and republicans are in full power across both chambers of congress. and democrats are still unsure of what message they need to unify the party. and rahm emanuel joins us now. it's great to have you back on the show, mr. ambassador. and i'm looking at some comments you made to financial times magazine. you can't be lethargic against this guy. i think everyone is getting their sea legs and trying to figure out how to move forward here. watching these nominations go through, watching republicans as they respond to donald trump's pardons of the january 6th rioters. and what advice would you give moving forward? >> yeah. >> well, first of all, you're not going to win it just on the first effort. >> i mean. >> what i would focus on is the long term, which is not just this. first week. and while i would oppose these nominations for a series of reasons, the three issues i would focus on,

number one, the secretary treasurer, in the testimony in front of the finance committee, said. >> he was against the minimum. >> wage in the very. >> week in which ceos are getting pay hikes, 30, 40%. >> he's against the minimum. >> wage and it hasn't been raised in two decades. >> so that actually. >> three decades. so that is where i would go first and foremost. and second, that the republicans are talking about cutting health care subsidies for middle class, working class families to pay for a tax cut for the wealthy. and third, well, while donald trump obviously talked about fighting inflation, a tariff war with canada, all the energy, not all, but the bulk of the energy, oil and gas for the united states, for the midwest and rocky mountains comes from canada. you're going to see it at the pump immediately. go right to the economics. go right to the core issues. i do think as it relates to a number of these nominations, i would fight them on the if you want to fight them. i don't think you have to fight every one of them. but where you have clear stands,

like, i think the idea of the secretary of defense, a alcoholic and a person with drinking problems and other types of character and judgment issues should be nowhere close to advising the president on nuclear issues. you got 12 nuclear aircraft carriers, 30 plus nuclear submarines. this person clearly is not qualified to be in the situation room and advice, but on the core fundamentals against the minimum wage while ceos pay is going up, that picture of all those ceos is going to hurt the president in the long term. cutting health care benefits for working and middle class families to pay for a tax cut for the wealthy, and making sure that gas prices in the midwest jump. remember, you got wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania in the midwest. that is where a lot of oil and gas from canada comes to the united states. you're going to see it at the pump with donald trump's turf. turf war. >> yeah. >> we'll see the vote. where we go. >> we'll see the vote for pete hegseth later tonight. we should note he, of course, has denied the allegations that he is an alcoholic. he says he would stop

drinking if confirmed. mr. ambassador. >> you know, you know the one thing here i don't agree with donald trump. i admire the fact that he has never had a drink in his in that area. but once you have a drinking problem, you always have a drinking problem. and that job is not stress free. i have been in this situation. you are two seats, the secretary of defense, down from the president of the united states. you have a million plus men and women under your command. that person should be nowhere close to advising the president, given what he has shown when he was just running a small veterans operation, he could handle the stress. you know, the stress of a secretary of defense is in the situation room, live or die, boots on the ground or not. nowhere. and every senator knows it. >> yeah. and the two republicans. >> the question is. >> yeah, mr. ambassador. right. the two republican senators who voiced opposition to his nomination, both did cite character issues as part of why they couldn't support him. let's you were, of course, ambassador to japan until just very recently. let's turn. to has it yeah, let's turn to that part of

the world right now because we know, donald, president trump has threatened tariffs against china in recent, you know, coming up in a few days. at the same time he's talked to xi jinping. he wants to have a visit to china soon. it has been reported. there's also been what is your level of concern about some of the democratic rollback we've seen in that area? and do you think that trump foreign policy will be robust enough to the area that former president biden said that relationship, u.s. and china is by far the most important of the next century? >> well, i have a fundamental principle about the indo-pacific. it is a home game for china. it's an away game for the united states. and i hate using sports metaphors on big national security issues. but to understand this, and our allies japan, korea, the philippines, india, australia, new zealand, they level the playing field for the united states. you can't be a credible deterrent force from long beach, california in the indo-pacific, and you can't

fight your adversaries and fight your allies. you got to pick. i happen to think our allies are tremendous resources for the united states. one of the things that china hates most is when the united states, japan and korea, under president biden aligned correctly philippines, japan, the united states aligned correctly. now, to their credit, i'll call it out. one of the first meetings secretary of state rubio called for was the quad, which is india, australia, japan and the united states showing china. our allies stand with us. the isolated party in the indo-pacific is china based on their actions, economic coercion. wolf warrior, you sit there and all of a sudden level up with your adversary. your allies are going to have real questions about your staying power. and so we are stronger when china sees a united front. we are weaker when they see divisions with our own allies. and my concern with president trump is not that he has affinity for autocrats. stylistically, he actually sees

the world like they do. he sees russia. you want ukraine, you want eastern europe. that's your area of sphere of influence. china, indo-pacific. he sees that with this whole move on greenland and panama, that these are spheres of influence. he has a strategic alignment with them that is fundamentally against america's interest. we have allies which are multiplier of force and deterrence and the credibility of our deterrence. and my concern is not what everybody else in washington writes, which is this idea. oh, he has stylistic affinity. no, he is strategically aligned with them. and his comments about xi, his comments about putin as friends is actually running down our allies weakens the credibility of america's deterrence. you want to stop wars, as he says, and i take his words seriously. you do it with allies aligned with you, and they're ready to be aligned with america's leadership. >> ambassador, good morning. let's talk a little domestic politics. as you know, many progressives, many democrats are

dejected about what happened in the election. they fully expected that they would move forward with a president, kamala harris. but now we're four more years of donald trump. he won all the swing states, some of them by very narrow margins. you've been at the center of democratic politics for so long now as a congressman, as a chief of staff inside the oval office, what is your message to democrats about not just how to handle donald trump, but how to get back on the horse and look ahead to the midterms, which really get underway about a year from now? in terms of campaigning. >> well, there's a there's a long thing to unpack, so i'm not sure we're going to be able to do it just here. but i would say one, you focus on donald trump. that's opportunities to kind of create a narrative. but two, focus on the american people, not just donald trump. and i think that one of the mistakes and for the party was that they became brain dead over the years because 20 years ago, there was demographics as destiny. don't worry. the demographics are going to work for the democratic party. and intellectually, policy wise, we became brain

dead. and i think the mistake to make is all we're going to do is focus on donald trump, which is where he wants you to focus and not focus on the american people. that's number one. number two, on on a your recruitment is going to be very important. the profile, the story of the candidates like we did in oh six, like in oh eight, like 2018, their backgrounds in targeted districts have to tell the story of that district, not what the national democrats want. and third and foremost, look, we're going to have when we talk about kitchen table issues, we've got to stop thinking that they're just economic. although those are important. they're also about schools, about public safety, about what's going on in the neighborhood. we had two democrats get elected president and reelected since franklin delano roosevelt, president clinton and president obama. president clinton ran on a 100,000 community police officers. we became identified with defund the police. one of those worked both policy wise and politically. president obama

was criticized for being the deporter in chief. and then there were a lot of other democrats who talked about free health care at the border. if you cross the border illegally, one of those have worked politically and be the right policy. we have to be where the american people are at their kitchen table, not where we want them to be, but where they are and talk to them. and the fact is, on a whole slew of issues, just take president clinton's election in 92, first 20 years, there was a campaign against law and order by richard nixon, welfare queens by ronald reagan, willie horton by george bush. it was bill clinton's message on a slew of issues, from crime to immigration to welfare reform to drug policy that got right with the american people so they could hear the rest of what we're talking about. we can't ignore a set of issues because it makes us uncomfortable. that makes the american people uncomfortable if they get right on how they live their lives, how they want to raise their kids, how they want to see what goes on in their communities and in their cities, then we're going to be okay. and i'll give you a classic example. i think

this idea on what president trump is talking about rating schools and places of worship on immigration is as stupid as the democrats closing schools in places of worship during covid, and they are going to make a massive mistake of going after immigrants in schools, hospitals and places of worship. and that's where democrats can stand up and say, look what, you got a criminal background out of here. schools, hospitals, places of worship. that's as crazy as what we did during covid. and we advocated, and it was very clear within six months that it was a bad it was a wrong policy as it relates to public health and achieving educational goals. here is there are places to stand and also understand what happens and how people live their lives, not how we want them to live their lives, but how they actually live their lives. and that we're in touch with it from a value system. they can then hear everything

else we have to talk about. former u.s. can i weigh in on? oh yeah. can i weigh in on one other subject? >> yeah. >> go ahead on the mvp. on the mvp, it's between lamar and josh down to those two. that's where it is i know you're i think every guest here forward should be asked these fundamental questions. >> well it. >> is my two choices. yeah. and i have some other choices on the movie. >> all right. and we'll have you weigh in on blake lively when you come back next. >> former u.s. ambassador to leave that to another family member. >> rob. yeah, wrong one, rahm emmanuel, thank you very much. actually, what rahm was talking about, a good segue into our next story here. republicans in the senate are refusing to work with democrats on a bipartisan immigration reform bill. a group of 12 moderate senate democrats sent a letter to senate majority leader john thune on wednesday, calling on the gop to work with them on immigration. but senate republicans are instead making it clear they will pursue a

border package without democratic input, despite a razor thin majority in the house. republican senator lindsey graham of south carolina said his party will not negotiate with democrats on the issue, telling nbc news, quote, on border security no. let's bring in nbc news and msnbc political analyst, former u.s. senator claire mccaskill and nbc news national affairs analyst and a partner and chief political columnist at puck, john heilemann and joe, what rahm was talking about, it's a good advice, and it's the putting it into practice in situations like these that will be a challenge. >> yeah. you know, it is interesting on illegal immigration and on the border on border security, we have we actually have heard people in the trump camp saying they would like to work with democrats on this issue. we heard donald trump in the middle of

everything he said after giving his inaugural speech and going downstairs and talking to his more, more fervent supporters, saying that he's talked to chuck schumer and said that they should get together and work for the betterment of america. so claire mccaskill, claire mccaskill is interesting on an issue where there could be common ground on an issue where democrats have moved the republicans direction on an issue where actually they worked with james lankford in 2024 and came up with a tough border security bill. it is fascinating that they are now being boxed out and being told, no, we don't want to work with you, which of course, you know, it's just it's an exhausting thing. every two years, people getting elected, getting the majority and thinking they're going to be in the majority forever because they just aren't. and yet i think here we have it again, where republicans say we'll do this all ourselves.

>> yeah. >> laws that last are laws that are bipartisan, laws that are wax and wane with whoever has the majority are ones that were passed just by one party. and so obviously it's smarter for the republicans to work with the democrats. and joe, here's the interesting thing about lindsey saying no to this. there are you've mentioned already this morning some senators who have to pay attention to the middle. dave mccormick in pennsylvania, he barely won that election. that is a state that is run by one of the strongest democrats in the country, josh shapiro. you have somebody like, you know, thom tillis in a state like north carolina, where a democrat just got elected governor, you have you have democrats. you have republicans in states like wisconsin where ron johnson, don't ask me how he survived. not the brightest light in the marquee in wisconsin, where tammy baldwin just survived. so, you know, the idea that he's got 53

republicans that will go hard, right? i mean, immediately cast out susan and lisa. they've already shown on the nomination that they're not going to be part of a far right, extreme republican caucus. so, you know, why in the world wouldn't they try to carve out something in the middle that would get a few democrats, maybe not all of them, but get a few from states that are similar to pennsylvania and wisconsin and other places where they will elect both democrats and republicans. it just seems weird to me that they are saying, absolutely no, i don't get it. and they've already got a big problem coming up with how they're going to figure out how to fund the government. >> yeah. john hammond, that deadline does loom in the weeks ahead. so let's let's get you on this, though. i mean, it's not donald trump's nature to be occasional signal now and then to say he'll work across the aisle. but so far, the trump team has suggested they're just simply going to go full steam ahead, crush their opposition. they think both within their own republican party at times and

certainly democrats. they don't seem like there's much instinct or appetite for compromise. how are you surveying the landscape here? >> well, i mean, on the immigration issue, i'm with claire, as it's always smart to be. i mean, there's first there's. >> the question. >> of the durability of the legislation. and i think it's what she just said was one of the a great, a great truth in, in our, in our modern era, which is, you know, bipartisan legislation that affects millions and millions and millions of people, that has to be bipartisan, at least at the at the edges if it's going to be stable and durable over time. i think the politics of this are super interesting in the sense that, you know, we've become really familiar with the dynamic where you have a hard line republican house and a senate. that tends to be because of the political dynamics of senators who are up for reelection in purple states and, and states where they they need to play to the middle. to some extent. we have a senate that's normally a little bit more of a place where deal making can happen, and that the house recalcitrance of the freedom caucus and so on is what holds things up, things up. this

is obviously a reversal of form if it holds. and i think, you know, you guys on the show, we've been talking for the last couple of weeks about the, you know, the leitmotif of signal versus noise. here's the question on immigration. is donald trump saying that he wants to work with chuck schumer, making kind of noises of that kind? is that signal or is that noise? and is that what's coming out of the senate? is that signal or is that noise? because it can't be both. if trump wants really wants there to be a bipartisan immigration bill, he can shut down this go it alone attitude that we've heard from the republicans in the senate on this issue. but if he doesn't really care about bipartisanship, he's obviously there are a lot of people on his team, as you just said, jonathan, who are more inclined to go it alone on almost everything. and that is we'll see how that plays out. i don't know the answer to that question right now, but it's super interesting because it is one of the places where there's at least been some sounds coming out of the white house that joe is talking about, that they'd

like to go in a bipartisan way, and to hear lindsey and others go the opposite direction. we'll see which one of those turns out to be signal which ones turns out to be noise. >> and then there's the influence of elon musk. despite the enthusiasm we saw from musk during the inauguration a couple of days ago, it does appear there may be a bit of a rift growing between president trump's allies and billionaire elon musk, according to politico. some white house officials are furious with musk's comments about the president's announcement of a major artificial intelligence investment. the tesla ceo undercut the agreement on social media this week by claiming the tech companies involved don't even have the money to follow through on the project, one white house official telling politico. musk has, quote, abused the proximity to the president. joining us now, one of the reporters on that piece, white house bureau chief for politico, dasha burns, also with us, white house reporter for the wall street journal, ken thomas. he's got some separate reporting on musk as well. good morning to you both. josh. i'm still getting used to calling you politico's chief white house correspondent. congratulations on the new gig. so happy to see

you here. let's talk about this and just set the stage a little bit for people who weren't following that specific angle of the story, what was this i investment and why are some white house officials you spoke to so upset with musk over it? >> yeah. >> so this was a. >> $500 billion investment. that they called stargate. >> that. >> president trump announced with a number of major tech ceos. openai, >> softbank. and as some people who follow tech may know, for the layman's here, like me, we might not be as well versed on the feuds between the tech bros, but there's been a long standing feud between elon musk and openai ceo sam altman. so this was announced that the white house and the roosevelt room to a lot of fanfare. and then musk shortly thereafter went on his platform and started to criticize the deal, criticize altman, criticize openai and softbank and say they don't have the money to do this. and this

was not a good look. according to many of the sources that i talked to, i started reporting on this rift months ago, and now it is continuing to escalate. people were hoping around trump that, you know, he may have parked himself at mar-a-lago. elon musk was there basically ever since the election. but they were thinking, okay, maybe once we get to the white house, things will be different. it doesn't look like it. and there's growing frustration. one trump ally told me that the president doesn't have any leverage over him, and musk gives zero expletive. we could print that at politico, but i can't say it on air here at morning joe. and a white house official told me that he very much got over his skis when he came out criticizing this deal. and but now that they are working with him to try to make sense of his ideas, this person said the ideas are innovative, the execution not so much. so there's this this growing frustration internally. but trump, when he was asked by reporters yesterday whether he

was worried or frustrated by musk, he said, nah, he hates one of the guys involved. and you know, i can i can relate to that. >> yeah. and of course, you quoted erik erikson, who's an influential conservative thought leader, talking about icarus and elon musk. tell us about that. >> yeah. >> erik erikson, conservative radio host steve bannon to called me earlier this week. we talked for 15 minutes. he railed the entire time against musk. yeah. erik erikson's point was, you know, icarus, the greek myth flew too close to the sun. didn't end well for icarus. his wings melted and he died. so the some of these people actually do want musk to succeed. they just think that this is about to potentially blow up in everyone's face. and bannon's point was that this is something like he's never seen the fact that musk has a specific mandate, which is doge, the

department of government efficiency, which we all still have many questions about. and to go and undercut the president on on a topic that has basically nothing to do with him is just completely unacceptable. bannon actually called on the chief of staff, siouxsie wiles, of course, to sit elon down and have a have a talking to with him. >> so ken thomas, elon musk may have lost, at least for now, that one with sam altman, although donald trump doesn't seem too mad about it. but he did get a win this week, and that's pushing out or being part of the reason why vivek ramaswamy, who was meant to be his copartner in doge, is now no longer part of it. you've got some new reporting on this. take us behind the scenes as to how this went down. >> yeah, i think in retrospect, this was a partnership that was not going to work in the end. you know, doge was originally envisioned as this outside force to cut government spending, and there would be co-equal leaders in elon musk and vivek ramaswamy. and i think as time marched on, vivek really rubbed

a lot of white house officials the wrong way. also elon as well. and, you know, there's just this interest by on vivek's part to sort of use doge to then transition over to a race for governor. and i think, you know, there was just this view after the h-1b visa flap that that he needed to move on, that it wasn't working. there was also just some surprise in their camps. on how doge was finally formulated. there was an executive order on monday which said that doge would be inside the government, and so that surprised some people. vivek felt like he needed to be outside the government in order to pivot to running for governor. elon clearly wants to be inside the government. you know, our reporting is that he's been working this week from the west wing. so it was just a relationship that was not going to work. and i think now, you know, we're all looking to see with trump is there is this story that dasha has an early

chapter in an eventual breaking point between the two. >> john heilemann. >> hey, ken. i guess my question is, you know, when i heard dasha a second ago talking about how the fact that there are some people inside the white house who notionally or at least nominally want elon musk to succeed, whether it's your sense that that's the case, again, in my in my experience, covering donald trump's world power is kind of seen as a zero sum game there. and i think there are a lot of people from the eric erickson's of the world who are outside trump's world, the steve bannon's of the world, who are semi in trump's world to people inside the white house who just see elon musk as as a threat to them all in some sense, because trump does seem to be so enamored of him on the basis of the fact that, you know, he sees the dollar signs there and he understands the power that musk has. do you think there's anyone around donald trump who's not named elon musk, who's actually rooting for elon musk?

>> yeah. >> i think there are a lot of white house officials who see this as perhaps an impediment, a nuisance. but what elon provides for trump is something that he didn't really have in the first term, which is essentially a political enforcer. if you're a house republican or maybe a senate republican in cycle, you're going to think twice about crossing trump because you know that elon could dump 25, $30 million into a challenge. and so, you know, there's this leverage that elon does provide for trump that maybe he didn't have. and so there might be interest among some political advisers to have that force. but again, you know, these often these these situations often don't end well with these are two disruptors. and so i think, you know, there's certainly white house officials who who are not really comfortable with this situation right now. >> all right. white house reporter for the wall street journal, ken thomas and white house bureau chief for politico,

dasha burns, thank you both very much for being on this morning and coming up on morning joe. one of our next guests says donald trump is taking a sharpie to democracy. vanity fair's molly jong-fast joins us ahead with her new piece. plus, we'll get to the growing legal fight involving actress blake lively and her costar and director justin baldoni. they are both arguing newly leaked footage from their film it ends with us proves their point when it comes to allegations about sexual harassment. but before we go to break, willie, you held your first ever sunday sit down, live in front of an audience of people from all over the country traveling to new york city, and your guest was the hottest comedian in the world right now. tell us about it. >> yeah, we did it in new york city down at city winery. beautiful venue on the hudson river. and we invited we sold tickets, invited fans to come. i figured we'd get some people from the upper west side and new

jersey and maybe brooklyn if we were lucky. people flew in from san diego and houston and knoxville and idaho and chicago filled the place up to see nate bargatze. he truly is one of the funniest people walking the earth right now. sells out arenas all over the world. international tour. and he was so generous and great to do our very first sunday sit down live. it will be turned into a tv interview that you'll see next sunday on sunday today. but we had an absolute blast. so my big thanks to nate and coming up this sunday. on sunday today, a woman who just yesterday was nominated for an academy award for her costarring role in wicked. she is cynthia erivo, who of course, plays elphaba, the green witch, in wicked, a movie that did over $700 million worth of business. ariana grande, also receiving a nomination for supporting actress. the movie, got ten academy award nominations. a great conversation with cynthia erivo coming up this weekend

over on nbc sunday today, and we'll be right back here on. >> morning joe. >> we will. >> emu and doug. >> you'll be back. >> emus can't help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. you're just a flightless bird. >> no. he's a dreamer, frank. >> and doug. >> well. i'll be. that bird >> well. i'll be. that bird really did it. only pay for what tap into etsy for home and style finds like custom shelving for less than 50 dollars to make more space. or linen robes under 75 to get you cozy. for affordable pieces to help you welcome big changes, etsy has it.

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on us with a qualifying trade in. call, click or visit an xfinity store today. oscars. >> wow. >> that's great. >> and wicked was nominated. >> for best picture. >> wow. >> yeah. >> people heard. >> and were like. >> yes. >> a movie we've actually seen.

>> this is. >> the movie i'm still. >> here was nominated. >> for. >> best picture. >> it's. >> it's a film about joe biden's last six months in office. >> it's. >> hello, hello. sebastian stan was nominated for best actor for his performance as donald trump. you could tell sebastian is still in character because he's already claiming he won. and. >> all right. the drama continues between actress blake lively and director justin baldoni costars in the film. it ends with us. baldoni's lawyer has released new behind the scenes footage of the two stars interacting on the set of their film, but both actors dispute what that video actually proves. nbc news entertainment correspondent chloe melas has more. >> go to the bottom. >> of this footage, which

appears in the finished version film. it ends with us only in this brief slow motion montage appears to show the two stars discussing how to play the scene as they slow dance. baldoni's team says the three takes of this scene, reportedly shot in may 2023, showed that what took place on set doesn't match claims of sexual harassment. that lively made an illegal complaint last month, according to the complaint. while filming a slow dance scene, baldoni was, quote, caressing miss lively with his mouth in a way that had nothing to do with their roles. in the raw footage released by the director's attorney, the two stars can be heard talking about production details while playing to the camera, as the couple in love. >> with i don't know about you. >> the complaint says baldoni, quote, dragged his lips from her ear and down to her neck as he said, it smells so good. baldoni's representatives say that the tape proves it didn't happen. >> i'm probably going to. >> ask you. >> it sounds good. >> well, it's. >> not bad. it's my body makeup.

>> lively's legal team, firing back in a statement, quote, justin baldoni and his lawyer may hope that this latest stunt will get ahead of the damaging evidence against him, but the video itself is damning. lively's representatives say that the footage corroborates her account of what happened, arguing that it shows baldoni quote, attempting to kiss her, kissing her forehead, rubbing his face and mouth against her neck, flicking her lip with his thumb, caressing her, telling her how good she smells and talking with her out of character, adding that no woman should have to take defensive measures to avoid being touched by their employer without their consent. the newly released videos follow a lawsuit filed last week by baldoni against lively, her pr team and husband ryan reynolds for defamation and extortion. lively's legal team calling the lawsuit another chapter in the abuser playbook, a bitter battle where both sides believe the same scene tells a very different story.

>> hearing a lot of reactions on both sides to looking at that video, john heilemann sort of plugged into hollywood. what do you make of all of this? >> wow. first of all, i unfortunately i have not seen the video and so i can't do like a zapruder level analysis on what that video does or doesn't prove. my guess is it probably it probably doesn't prove really prove anything. i will say that, you know, when this story broke, this the history here, mika, is that in times wrote a long piece about this dispute between blake lively and justin baldoni and at were that, that, that, that the core of that story was about not really about the claims, not about the sexual harassment claims themselves, but about what justin baldoni, who had postured as a kind of feminist, a male feminist ally of feminism during the metoo era through

that period, about the fact that when this dispute started over, over claims of sexual harassment on set, that he had hired a bunch of kind of nefarious online pr takedown specialists who had then waged a campaign when the movie came out to try to smear her and hurt her on social media. it is kind of an incredible story. and if anybody isn't familiar with the doings of the doings of what goes on online, we all know from those of us in our generation know that there are specialists in this world who work used to be paid. six was the center of all this, the new york post. now it's how do you how do you drive the social conversation online. and this story kind of opened up a little bit of that. it it made if you on the basis of that story alone, it made the baldoni side look awfully sleazy. and again, without wading into the specifics of the allegations of what took place on sexual harassment, i read that story and all of the surrounding

reporting. this is not my area of expertise, but i will tell you, a lot of my friends in hollywood, their question was, do does justin baldoni not understand that blake lively is a really close friend of taylor swift's and be married to ryan reynolds, one of the most powerful people in hollywood? did they really expect that they were going to be able to take down blake lively? when this person has some of the most powerful allies in the business, and i think the you know how it all works out. i have no idea where this story is headed. there now claims counterclaims, suits, countersuits, but it is one of these cases where where a lot of the ugly kind of maneuvering in front of the camera on social media and then kind of behind the scenes has kind of been laid bare by this controversy. >> as well. and, and mika, of course, as john said, where this started, this isn't didn't start as a claim of sexual harassment. it started because the new york

times investigation, massive investigation that showed baldoni and his team went to pr specialists who said, yes, we can destroy her in so many words and basically said, that's what we do. and sure enough, it was it was chilling. and that's this story is important for so many reasons. but one of the reasons is it shows there are people out there who specifically are hired to destroy other people's reputations online. and you talk to people after they read the new york times article and they they were like, oh, yeah, i was wondering because i saw all of this negative stuff online and on across all my social media posts about blake lively. i just thought she was a terrible person. they would say, not understanding that this was a manipulated story, that they put

a ton of money behind and were bragging that, yes, we can destroy her reputation. >> and now he's suing the new york times. i mean, it is just a maelstrom of lawsuits. at the same time, i think the social media angle of this story is incredibly enlightening, especially for people who use social media to understand how it can be used in a way to shape how you think, which may not be the truth. we'll be right back. and by the way, chloe melas is going to join us in our 9:00 hour to have more on that angle. we'll be right back with this morning's must read opinion pages, including one from eugene robinson on the real reason trump wants to end birthright citizenship. morning joe will be citizenship. morning joe will be right back. the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control.

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because when medicine gets better, all of us can get better. ♪♪ hamas. >> will enter. a cease. >> fire in the nation's capital. >> philadelphia and el paso. >> the palisades. >> from msnbc world headquarters. >> all right. live. look at the white house at 42 past the hour. time now for a look at the must read opinion pages. eugene robinson has a new column in the washington post on what he calls the real reason trump wants to end birthright citizenship. and gene writes in part, quote, president donald trump's executive order purporting to abolish birthright citizenship is unambiguously and profoundly racist. we can conclude only that this is the whole point.

the constitution, the supreme court and congress have taken race out of the question of who deserves to be a us citizen and who does not. trump wants to override all of that. he wants to arrogate to himself the power to decide whether a child born here is an american. he may not ultimately get his way, but we all get the message loud and clear. and peggy noonan has a new column in the wall street journal about president trump. peggy writes in part, quote, he is going to utterly dominate our brain space. he is a neurological imperialist. he storms in and stays in his public self. joe biden asked nothing and gave nothing. mr. trump demands and dominates. attention must be paid. democrats so far are nonexistent as the opposition. in the long term. their passivity is a

strategy. let mr. trump control immigration and kill woke. that will remove the issues people most hate about the democratic party. once he solves them, the issues are gone. in the short term, this isn't a strategy, but another indication of lostness. they don't know what they believe in and have no leader for four years. it's going to be nonstop, 24 over seven. rock em, sock em. god bless our beloved country. history ahead, everybody hold on tight. joe. >> hold on tight. you know, john heilemann. peggy writes about something she knows very much about. we conservatives at the time. we republicans, we thought the cold war was the big issue. it is certainly what made my

democratic family republicans in the late 60s. and then the soviet union disappeared. and christmas day, 1991, and republicans were still shocked in november of 1992 that bill clinton got elected. he got elected in part because there wasn't that soviet threat. i mean, we could debate for a very long time whether bill clinton of 92 would have got elected if there was still the soviet threat. so this idea that peggy puts out there, that you take an issue off the table by completely co-opting it, if you're donald trump or the republican party and it's not an issue you have to talk about two years from now. that's actually a very, very salient and important point, because once a problem is gone, the american people move on to what's next. they did it in 1992 and elected

bill clinton. >> yeah, i guess the problem here in this case, you're talking about immigration, joe, is that the specific problem or is it the broader the broader complex of kind of woke issues? >> and immigration? i think mainly woke issues, dei issues, all of these issues that people say cost democrats the election in 2024. >> yeah, i think that that it's going to be there's not going to be a collapse of the of the soviet union in the realm of culture. and i think it's it i get i think peggy is trying to make a point, which is the democrats don't have an answer for how to how to get into a better place. there's too much. i think her argument is that there's so much there's so much factionalism in the democratic coalition about this. there's still a woke wing of the democratic party. there's a more centrist wing, and that what the democrats are effectively doing is saying, rather than kind of

solving our our internal ideological dispute on this, we're just going to kind of step back and let donald trump do what he's going to do. either the issue is going to go away or the issue is going to he's going to hurt himself with such a large swath of the american voters that it's going to rebound to us politically. i think that i don't know that the democratic party has a real strategy in that way, because i'm not sure the party has is of one mind about all this. but i do think that in a, in what the, the, the increasing diversity of the american electorate, the way demography is changing the country is not going to decelerate over the next 20 or 30 years. it's only going to accelerate. and that doesn't mean any one particular thing. it doesn't mean democrats, people thought for a while, oh, the coalition of the ascendant democrats will dominate. and it doesn't mean that the backlash is going to dominate for the next few few generations. it is a fundamental fact, though, of our of our social, cultural and political lives. and unlike the collapse of the soviet union,

it's not going to go away. and so i don't think either donald trump can take it off the table, nor do i think the democrats can take it off the table by just throwing up their hands and letting donald trump have his way. >> meanwhile, this morning, david brooks is writing the new york times about the next four years in a piece titled how trump will fail, highlighting many of the trump's cabinet picks, david writes, quote, they are self-identified disrupters. they aim to burn the systems down. disruption is fine in the private sector. if elon musk wants to start a car company and it flops, then all that's been lost is investor money and some jobs. but suppose you disrupt and dismantle the defense department or the judicial system or the schools. where are citizens supposed to go? as we've seen over and over again down the centuries, there's a big difference between people who operate in the spirit of disruption and those who operate in the spirit of reform. if i were running the democratic party. god help them. i would tell the american people that donald trump is right about a lot of things. he's accurately identified problems on issues

like inflation, the border, and the fallout from cultural condescension that members of the educated class have been too insular to anticipate. but when it comes to building structures to address those problems, well, the man is just hapless and incompetent. so writes david brooks this morning in the new york times. and claire, that's one of the words we've heard again and again from people, even just in the last 24 hours talking about, for example, pete hegseth. he's a disrupter. he's going to come in and turn the department of defense upside down. he's going to clean it up. he's going to streamline it. he's a man who knows the military. a lot easier said than done, of course. >> yeah. and listen, all respect to peggy noonan. but the death of democratic party is really, frankly, a nonstarter with me. there are plenty of strong leaders in the democratic party. and just because the first week to ten days of the trump administration has not been house on fire, democrats kicking does not mean that the democrats

are not going to be prepared to show out this incompetence. and i think they will be, you know, just look what's coming up, willie. they have to find $5 trillion in cuts to continue to have the tax cuts for the millionaires and billionaires. that's on the agenda right away. on top of that, elon musk says he's going to find $2 trillion worth of cuts. if you look at the documents that are being circulated on capitol hill right now by the republicans, they're targeting medicare, they're targeting medicaid, they're targeting student loans. they're targeting all kinds of programs that if they think this is going to be a walk in the park with the american people, with the people that supposedly donald trump is there to help, you know, they set the stage with the trillion dollar cast of characters behind him on inauguration day. that image is not going anywhere. elon musk as

the president image is not going anywhere. and the republicans are going to have to fight that. and i think the democrats are going to be well positioned to once again regain their footing, that they are for the folks that need the tax deduction for their mortgages, that need the local and state tax deduction to make it all come out even at the end of the year, that need the help on student loans, that need medicare. that's what's going to really going to be where the rubber meets the road. and i think everybody just needs to hang on a minute, take deep breaths. it's going to be fine. >> claire mccaskill and john heilemann, thank you both very much for being on this morning and still ahead on morning joe. we're going to look at the state of reproductive care in america with an artist and writer who has focused on the clinics that has focused on the clinics that provide those services. we're i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! —uh. —here i'll take that. [cheering]

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distinctly different from when he assumed the presidency in 2017 is the state of reproductive health care in america. two and a half years later, after the supreme court overturned the constitutional right to an abortion, there are now 19 states across the country that restrict or ban altogether access to the health care procedure, a procedure that can save a life. let's bring in artist and professor of art at ohio, the ohio state university, carmen weinert. she is the author of a recent washington post opinion piece entitled i photographed abortion clinics. what caught my eye hung on the walls, and in it, she discusses her art exhibit entitled the last safe abortion, which is a tapestry of pictures from abortion clinics in the american midwest and south over the past

50 years. so, carmen, talk to us about what we're looking at here and what was the motivation behind the piece? >> sure. well. >> first. >> of all, thank you so much for having. >> me on. and mika, for your continued for continually putting voice to this issue, which we so appreciate, especially here in the midwest. as you mentioned, the last safe abortion is a work of visual art, which was shown first at the minneapolis institute of art and then went on to the whitney museum of art for the whitney biennial, from which you can see that image there. it holds over 2500 photographs, which are a combination of photographs that i made in abortion clinics, as you said, in the midwest and in the south of the united states, as well as archival photographs taken from clinics themselves, really sort of sandwiched between roe and dobbs decision.

and my goal in making this work was to normalize the nature of abortion care on the ground, which is as, as you well know, is really made so ideological as a 30,000 foot level. but, you know, in fact, i the day to day work is anything but. right. it's sterilizing medical equipment. it's throwing staff birthday parties. it's answering the phone over and over. so that was really my ambition in making this work and putting it in the context of an art museum. >> and over time, with roe v wade, abortion became a health care necessity for women, whether it be to save them from agony and mental health struggles and from being sterilized with pregnancies that were abnormal, had abnormalities to saving their lives if they needed, if they were bleeding

out. and so it's incredible that we are where we are with so many states with outright bans on the procedure. with the fall of roe talk, if you could, in our final moments about the clocks on the wall and what they signify to you. >> sure. i was really so thrilled to have nagar azimi reach out to me from the washington post. she had seen the work installed in the whitney biennial and was familiar with my practice. and she said, how can we how can we sort of start to visualize making a compact version of this for the washington post in print and online? that was a tall order, because there were almost 2700 photographs in the larger installation. and there's a version of the artist book which had about a thousand photographs. and so we went back and forth on it and decided ultimately to do a version of the work which held only the clocks. the clocks did exist in the larger work. they sort of

punctuated the photographs of, frankly, women at work across the last 50 years. and what i loved about this version of the work is that it it sort of functions on a practical and symbolic level. right? the clock is, as we all know, those of us who clock in and clock out very much about labor, about the 9 to 5 gig, and at the same time, it's symbolic. it is about how much time we have left to access reproductive health care and in many cases, gender affirming care. it is about, you know, mandatory waiting periods. it's about waiting for our periods to come and not come. and so my hope is that the clock sort of functions on both those levels, both concrete and allegorical. >> the new piece is online now at the washington post. artist and professor of art at the ohio state university, carmen hanan. thank you. and as a mother of and daughter of an artist, i. i

appreciate you speaking these stories through art. so thank you so much. >> thank you. >> for coming on the show this morning. and still ahead on morning joe, senator adam schiff of california will join the conversation ahead of president trump's trip to his state to survey the wildfire devastation. hours from now, we'll discuss that with him and much more. and as we go to break, you are looking at live pictures out of washington, d.c, national zoo, where two giant pandas have made their debut this morning. you can see one is already sound can see one is already sound asleep. we're back in 90s. at&t has a new guarantee. because most things in business are not guaranteed. like a distraction-free work environment. -yeah,i'll circle back around. -get those steps in, kevin. your coworkers keeping things confidential. [phone ringing] oh, she's spilling all the tea. ♪♪ or office etiquette. yeah, that's not guaranteed. i know you can see me! you know what at&t guarantees?

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the quality is phenomenal. try the crossover bra today at honey love.com. >> trump has. >> he's issued. >> a number. >> of executive orders. some of them are awful. >> some are. >> just blatantly unconstitutional. >> but one of them, i have. >> to. >> admit. >> i'm a little. >> bit excited about. lastly, sir, we have an executive order ordering the. >> declassification of files. >> relating to the assassinations. >> of president john f kennedy. senator robert f. >> kennedy, and. >> the reverend doctor martin luther. >> king junior. >> that's a big one. >> a lot of people are. >> waiting for this for a long, for. >> years. >> for decades. >> and everything will be revealed. >> ten bucks says we're going to find out joe biden killed jfk.

>> all right. good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is friday. anybody happy about that? anyone. anyone raise your hand. >> happy friday. yes. we're all here we go. >> january 24th. we have a lot to get to this morning, including pete hegseth. s nomination for defense secretary, which cleared a key hurdle yesterday. we'll look at where support stands for the former fox news host ahead of an expected final vote today in the senate. plus, president trump delivers the first international speech of his new term. we'll have the key moments from his address to business and political leaders. also ahead, we'll bring you the very latest on the wildfires still burning in southern california, as the president says he will get a firsthand look at the devastation. and another former trump administration official is losing his security detail despite threats from foreign groups. we'll talk about that along with joe, willie and me. we have the co-host of our

fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics, managing editor at the bulwark. sam stein, white house reporter for the washington post, jackie alemany and the host of way too early, ali vitali. to our top story now president trump's pick to lead the central intelligence agency was confirmed on a bipartisan basis yesterday. john ratcliffe, trump's former director of national intelligence and a former republican congressman from texas, was confirmed 74 to 25, with 21 democrats voting in favor of his nomination. he was sworn into office shortly after the vote. meanwhile, the final senate vote on pete hegseth s nomination as defense secretary is expected to be held tonight after he narrowly cleared a required procedural vote yesterday. 51 senators voted to move forward with his

nomination. two republicans senators lisa murkowski of alaska and susan collins of maine, sided with democrats in voting against hegseth. senator murkowski announced her opposition ahead of the vote, writing in a statement, quote, the leader of the department of defense must demonstrate and model the standards of behavior and character we expect of all service members. and mr. hegseth s nomination to the role poses significant concerns that i cannot overlook. senator susan collins also explained her decision in a statement, noting hegseth changing position on women in combat roles. quote, he and i had a candid conversation in december about his past statements and apparently evolving views. i am not convinced that his position on women serving in combat roles has changed. now, republicans can only afford to lose one more

vote if that occurs, vice president jd vance would have to vote in favor to break the tie and confirm hegseth. senator mitch mcconnell chose to advance hegseth signaled he is not soldn his. but he has signaled that he's not sold on his nomination. and senator thom tillis told reporters yesterday he was still looking into allegations that hegseth denies. >> in favor of a closure today. still, i'm still examining the record and what i've what i've tried to explain to everyone. and i know some people are getting it is i go through extensive due diligence. if people want to reach out to me and want to talk about their account, i do it. i have talked to numerous people. i've spent hours on the phone. i have yet to find. i see these accounts.

i've yet to find one instance of a firsthand account with corroboration to support the allegations. if i find that, then it would influence my vote. >> well, you know that that is fascinating. what thom tillis said. we we've heard that several several of the whistleblower reports were actually blocked by republicans. so those people that made those complaints couldn't come forward with it. it'd be interesting to see if thom tillis has tried to reach out to those. so first of all, with with the ratcliffe vote, another fairly bipartisan vote like marco rubio and like several others that are going through it, i like we suspect, the treasury secretary nominee will also breeze through. but but on pete hegseth, you have, of course, mitch mcconnell. and

we just heard there, thom tillis. i still am wondering about two people. have we heard yet from. senator young, who again, has committed his life to strengthening the united states military and certainly understands that pete hegseth is not qualified, regardless of these allegations, to be secretary of defense at this stage of his life. and also, if we heard anything from dave mccormick, a west point grad who is not up for reelection for six years and certainly understands as well as anybody on capitol hill that pete hegseth is not up to the challenges of serving in the pentagon. john. >> yeah. so a few things here. first of all, on ratcliffe, much like rubio, the bipartisan support, there are some democrats who have signaled they don't necessarily agree with all of his beliefs, but they think he is qualified for the role and therefore he is going to he was confirmed without much in the way of opposition. hegseth is a

different matter. there are open questions here. some late breaking revelations in these last few days. you know, former family members stepping forward, more witness accounts coming forward, some with names attached, which for some republicans, deeply important. and we now have, as thom tillis suggested, these last 24 hours. he want he yes. he moved to advance but now has these last few moments here to do some last minute investigating and perhaps soul searching. we heard from collins and murkowski, two senators. their opposition was expected and both delivered pretty strong statements as to why they couldn't support this candidate. so the question is, is there one more that would force the vice president to break a tie, or perhaps two more? senator young has suggested he will support pete hegseth that to answer one of our questions. so we will see if anything changes in the last 24 hours in these final 24 hours. i've also been told there are some republicans who have misgivings about hegseth, but might be saving their no vote for tulsi gabbard, thinking they

can only do one for fear of really alienating president trump. and they think gabbard even less qualified than hegseth. so, ali, let's go to you. you obviously cover the hill each and every day. what's the latest you've heard here about the momentum? could there be a late breaking no vote or two that could jeopardize his nomination when the vote is taken this evening? >> well, these are the four names that we've been talking about for the entirety of the hegseth nominating fight. it's always been murkowski, collins, mcconnell, and, of course, thom tillis. but what i hear in that thom tillis statement is that he might be pointing to the pitfalls of the background check process. and certainly all of us here have talked about that, how it's not been a wholehearted and far reaching process with clear, glaring gaps. but what tillis is saying there is he's leaving himself an out for if and when he does end up voting to confirm hegseth, the lack of first person accounts is what he's looking for and has yet to find. but there are probably reasons for that, including but not

limited to something that our team reported late last night, which is that there was a non-disparagement clause in his second divorce, and that might prevent his second wife from coming out and talking about the pieces of their marriage that have been alleged, this idea that she was fearing for herself, for her safety, that there might have been threats of abuse. that's something that our team had reported on. and so there could be explanations for why tillis has not yet been able to find a first person account. but what i see in that statement is not someone who is looking for the way to lay the groundwork, to getting to know. he's also a 2026 senator up for reelection. we know primary challenges have been a key threat over the course of this process, and that's certainly something that's not far from mind for folks on the hill, either. >> so, you know, sam stein? yeah. todd young said last week that he was going to support pete hegseth and this vote last night. we should point out the senator, dave mccormick, the new incoming senator, that he's here now, incoming senator from pennsylvania, who is also a combat veteran. he voted to move

forward to the final vote, but also has signaled his support for pete hegseth. so do you see anything derailing hegseth confirmation at this point? and if not, where are, as jon pointed out, where are republicans looking? because next thursday, six days from now, you have the confirmation hearings for both tulsi gabbard and kash patel. are some republicans holding their no votes? perhaps for one of those two nominees? well, first of all, when do we get to blake lively? like that's why. >> that's why. >> right. >> let's keep your powder dry. >> yeah, let's be clear. >> i was asked to talk about one thing this morning on on the hegseth nomination. i think this is not performative, because obviously there are two republican senators who have come out in opposition to it. but when you see, like alex said, when you see thom tillis statement, it's clear to me that what he's saying, in essence, is i'm open minded, but i haven't seen anything yet that will dissuade me from voting for it.

and we got hints yesterday that the expectation is a very narrow vote, potentially 5050 vote, but that hegseth will be confirmed ultimately. and notable here. look, obviously there's a ton of scandal around this. this has been an incredibly messy confirmation process. but i thought collins statement was the most notable one, which is i don't believe you. in essence, i don't believe your conversions that you say you've had on women in combat are real. and it gets to the fundamental issue with hegseth. that wasn't, in essence, you know, convincing enough for all republicans, which is that he's not really compared to anyone else for this post, qualified for it. he just doesn't have the qualifications for it. that got overshadowed by some of the more salacious allegations against him, which in a way actually allowed republicans to get over that. the other qualification issue now, really, as to your other point, like what does this mean for other nominations? i've been talking to republicans on the hill. the biggest one that they think is at risk would be tulsi

gabbard's, that she's not had the confirmation hearing. meetings with senators that have gone well like the others have. in fact, some of the senators have left those meetings saying they still have questions that they need to answer. i was in a briefing with one republican member of congress who went through all of the controversial ones hegseth, rfk, jr. patel, and they were pretty bullish on all of them. and then it got to gabbard. and it's like, you know, she still has work to do. but i also talked to him and i'll shut up after this. but i also talked to a lobbyist, a republican lobbyist on the hill, who said the issue here is that if any of these nominees go down, it hurts. john thune and john thune has to deliver these nominees for trump and the establishment. republicans want thune to remain senate majority leader. so they have that other calculation that they have to consider when making this vote. still ahead on morning joe, an update on the wildfires burning through southern california with some much needed rain in the forecast this weekend. we'll have the very latest when have the very latest when morning

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groundbreaking information, trump told reporters yesterday, quote, everything will be revealed. new data shows a new record number of people are making just the minimum payments on their credit cards. more consumers are also falling into delinquency, as the average interest rates have soared. according to the fed, average credit card rates are about 50% higher than three years ago. by one measure, it would take 22 years and cost 18 grand in interest to pay off $10,000 in debt. and the new york post is reporting on a study that shows smartphones are making teenagers more aggressive, detached from reality, and even causing them to hallucinate, according to one psychologist quoted in the piece. screen time essentially acts as a toxin that stunts both brain development and social

development. a staggering 37% of 13 year olds reported experiencing aggression. the researchers also warned the phones are making kids withdraw from society. coming up, oscar winning actress michelle yeoh is charting a new course with her latest project. we'll talk about her role in the new star trek film when morning joe comes film when morning joe comes right back. why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i need it a little cool and i need it a lot of cool. sleep number does that. sleep up to 15 degrees cooler on each side. 9 out of 10 couples sleep better. and now, save 40% on our new special edition smart bed. shop a sleep number store near you. no. i mean, it's unlimited premium wireless for $15 a

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up for msnbc daily@msnbc.com. >> it's important to remember that for. >> all the statistics. >> and square. >> mileage and. >> square footage. >> and number. >> of people displaced, they're. >> all individual people with their homes, with their lives. >> driving around, there's. >> almost nothing left standing. occasionally you'll see a house that's okay or a street that's okay, but that's occasional. >> i continue to see, and i want to shout out one more time, the first. >> responders who are responding. in this mutual aid effort from all over. southern california. it really. >> has brought out the best and most inspiring part about. >> human beings. >> there's a customer. >> hoping for. >> a word. >> with you. bring him. what are you doing in my space station? i'm giving you a chance to get back in on the action on. >> a. >> galactic scale. >> that was a preview of the new star trek movie section 31. it

stars michelle yeoh reprising her fan favorite role as philippa georgiou, who joins a secret division of starfleet. and while she's tasked with protecting the federation from disaster, this anti-hero must also face the sins of her own past. yeoh won an oscar for her role in everything everywhere, all at once, and then had a key supporting role in wicked. i sat down with the 62 year old earlier this week. >> did you. >> ever, at 20, imagine your career beyond the age of 50? did you think of it? did you picture it? no. >> i actually never even thought i wanted to be an actress, to be honest, i wanted i had graduated and then during that year, my mom had entered me for miss malaysia. oh, yes, she signed the she faked my.

>> fantastic. >> she thought, hey, you should try it. it's good. it's good for you. because i really wanted to, at the end of the day, have my own ballet school where i could teach little boys and girls. you know, about the love of dance, the love of ballet. so. but then when i went on to. to be miss malaysia, i learned a lot about my own country and be the ambassador. ambassador for malaysia. and i was offered to do a commercial in hong kong. you know, when, like you say, when you're 21, 22, you're like, why do you say no? right, exactly. yeah. so i went and i was offered a film contract. amazing. yes. it was a don't know what i'm doing, but i'll say yes. >> and here you are. >> yes. >> busier than ever. how many years later? but you didn't imagine your career after 50 back then? you didn't think. >> of it? i don't think of. for me it was. >> white space. i mean, i'm 57, but when i was 20, i definitely

did not think i'd still be working in this business. >> but did you know what business you. >> i did. and i thought, i thought that i had maybe 20 years to get it all done. i thought at 40 would be done. >> you would what would go on to something else? you would retire. >> it was all white space to me, or maybe even a question mark that i'd even be doing anything. that was the sort of perception that i had as a young woman. >> as for me, i did not think, i don't like to plan because i find that when that happens, you put so much. parameters around things, right? i put the fence, the door is closed. what if i don't want to do that? that means i made a wrong choice, right? so i kind of leave the doors, the windows, you know, the path open. as you grow older, what you find is other people keep telling you what you should be doing or what you shouldn't be doing. you know, as a woman, when you're in your 20s, you should start thinking about getting married. you know, finding the right guy, you know,

starting a family. because if you don't do it by the time you're 30. tick tick tik tik tik tik. it's a geriatric pregnancy. and you go like, what? how can i be a geriatric at 30 something ridiculous. you know, it's like they keep reminding you. oh, you're 50. oh. you're 40. you can't do this anymore. 50. forget about it. and especially in this, the entertainment business, it seemed like as your numbers grow, it doesn't grow in the amount you get paid. it's like everything starts to shrink around you. like the roads get smaller. very soon you're relegated. okay? you're the mother. that's fine. if you're 50, if you're 60. grandma, those are the only roles left. and nothing wrong to be a grandmother. >> so to those who say, oh, you're 40, you can't dot, dot, dot oh you're 50, you can't dot dot dot. michelle yeoh says, what? >> no, don't let anybody tell you what you can do. or especially people telling you

you're past your prime. that's total. your oscar speech. yes. i mean, you know, as i'm getting there, that i realized that was what was happening. you know, all the women are being told, oh, you're past your prime, you know, think of something else to do, you know, go behind the scenes. yes. and you're going like, why? why should you dictate what i want to do? what's my passion and what's my love and what i want to put out there? >> well, after you turn 60, you not only won the oscar, you married the love of your life. yes. so it know your value. we tell young women through the 50 over 50 partnership with forbes that there's a long runway to live your life and to reach your highest heights. you find your greatest joys. and you are the poster woman of 50 over 50. >> oh, wow. that's pretty cool. yes, yes. >> let's add another thing to your list because you're not doing enough. speaking of, let's talk about the movie. your

character, star trek section 31. >> what are you doing in my space station? >> i'm giving you. >> a chance to get. >> back in on the action. >> on a galactic scale. >> what a cute idea. >> she's complicated. she's ruthless. she has a lot of regrets. >> yes, i think it's because she went to the prime universe. she went to a place where people loved. they have compassion. they have kindness. they have trust and faith in each other. in her world, there was none of that. it was a very lonely world. because everyone around you is trying to kill you and take over and take over your throne, and that was what she had to live with. so in her world, to stay at the top is like, how if you do this to me, you're going to regret it. and that was her, her mainframe. until when she was dragged in with, to her disgust, to the

prime universe. she found this amazing group of people in discovery who taught her, who opened her eyes to what should be and with hope, with compassion. and so she learned it was. it was a struggle at the beginning. but she there was something very charming about philippa georgiou, even though she was a from hell. there was something very lovable about her that you you wanted to reach out that hand and find that person, you know, that that caring person. and so she was given she is given a second chance. >> this role is physically and visually powerful. you got to love it, to do it. what do you love about this role? >> because she's an antihero. she's so flawed, she's so complex. and i think her biggest at the present moment is like, you know, what is redemption? is forgiveness, right? and then you try and do good. but the biggest

step forward is can you forgive yourself? can you want it bad enough that you will do the right thing? and even at the risk of losing your own life? but she learned that it is important. it's not just about you, it's about everything. so it's such a complex role. but i love the way my, my, my team from craig, the writer, my director and everyone around has made it with humor, very dark humor. but, you know, put that aside. it is because, you know, you can't just go like it too over the top. you have to put it in such a way. take a step back and go, we are going to find it. it's going to be hard hitting, but at the same time it's going to be fun. >> can we talk about the fight scenes? because i understand you do these stunts yourself. >> love it, love it. i love the physicality of it. >> what's your workout routine? >> i start before i even open my

eyes. when i'm in bed. when i, i know i'm waking up, i start my stretching. i start my all those kind of things. >> you start working out in bed. >> oh, yes. that's the best place. >> what time do you wake up? >> oh, this morning at about 230 in the morning. yeah. if i have to work at. i get picked up at five. i will wake up two hours before that to do the workout, to get to prep my body for the day. >> that's a lot. >> no it's not. if you think about it, your body needs to come into a good place and that takes a little bit of time. so if you love what you do, it's commitment, right? right. and that is what it entails for me. maybe some people are very good. they roll out of bed and they're like, okay, i'm ready. >> so you're the first woman to headline a star trek film. what do you hope this means for other female roles? what do you hope this just means? >> there will be more. yeah, right. let's i don't want to be just the first. right, right. i want i want it to be. that's a

norm. why should it be? why did it take so long? >> i know we're so interesting, aren't we? we have so much more to us when we're in our 50s. >> and 60s to do. but i'm glad we are doing it. so. >> are you in your prime? are you just hitting it? where's michelle yeoh right now? are you? >> i'm working towards it. >> working toward your. >> prime, of course. you know, because you the way. if you say i'm in my prime now, that means there's only one way to go. yeah, you're always. >> working toward it. >> always working, always learning. always, always the journey. so speak. >> if you could, to women in the know your value community and those who worry that their best years are behind them and that like they're past it and there's nothing ahead, like how do i change that mindset? help, help me help them. >> oh, i think that's the thing is, like, sometimes i think we worry. we're overthinkers. we worry too much, you know, be an over achiever. like, oh, right, the next project is going to be yes we do. we overthink it. yes. like, oh my god, this is bad.

this is bad. we are creating something. the one person who says no is you. you know that, right? >> i do. >> i do, and the thing is, is like you find your passion. you know, it's not about oh, i've done. yes, we've done so many things, but there's so many things more to do. >> star trek section 31 is streaming now on paramount plus and still ahead on morning joe. our next guest is not a fan of the recent presidential pardons, whether it's the one he received from joe biden or the ones donald trump handed out to the people who attacked the capitol on january 6th. senator adam schiff is standing by and weighs in on all of it, straight ahead on morning joe. >> well, you're in the big leagues now. >> how was your vacation, sir? >> well. >> i needed. >> one with your 10% loyalty.

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to get several of them under control this morning. some much needed rain is expected over the weekend, but that is prompting concerns now about possible mudslides. nbc news correspondent liz kreutz has the latest. >> reporter relentless. >> santa ana winds sparking. multiple new fires across southern california, forcing firefighters into what seems like a volatile game of whack a mole. from ventura county to san diego to los angeles, a brush fire ignited near the famous getty center, closing in on one of the city's busiest highways and prompting evacuation warnings in bel air. >> i can see it spreading in both directions. >> crews knocking it down while also waging a massive air and ground attack to get a handle on the hughes fire in north l.a. county, which forced 30,000 people from their homes. >> we were able to get a lot of personnel and equipment on scene in a relatively short amount of time. >> across southern california, 10 million people facing dangerous fire conditions with up to 70 mile per hour winds,

but rain now in the forecast after months of bone dry conditions. >> rain. is it a good thing or a bad thing. >> right now? >> what's predicted looks like a. >> good thing because it's. not a lot, but we're. >> not taking. >> any chances. >> the rain is. >> also bringing. >> concerns about mudslides with unstable. land and the burn scars and. >> all this. >> toxic debris. crews clearing debris, installing concrete barriers and giving out sandbags to shore up vulnerable areas. >> if the rain does pound for a significant period of time, there will be a slide. >> despite a city on edge, multiple schools near altadena reopening for the first time since the eaton fire. >> some of my best friends might have lost their homes. only no one whose house burned to the ground. so that was a sad thing. >> now the baby. >> an attempt to return to normalcy as the fire threat looms large. >> liz kreuz reporting from los angeles county there jonathan lemire. president trump will travel to the fire zone later

today, but that will be after he visits north carolina, which is still devastated by the flooding that happened after hurricane helene. tens of billions of dollars of damage there. more than 100 people died. he's been very critical. he was during the campaign for the federal response there in north carolina. so a long and busy day for the president today. yeah, he's heading to both disaster sites. first, as you say, western north carolina. hurricane helene, he's going to tour the damaged areas, promise some sort of federal help. but and then he heads out to california and look for presidents. these trips to disaster zones are usually moments to unify, to say we'll set aside politics and you just work together to help the republicans and democrats alike here on the ground who have suffered in his first term. first term. donald trump didn't often do that. he politicized a lot of these events. he certainly did during this past campaign as well. we will have to see what happens today. one note of note he is inviting congressman schiff, who he is deeply critical of, to join him

for touring the california disaster zone. schiff, of course, represents that state. now, the senator schiff, i should say newly elevated. and then gavin newsom, the governor of california, who, of course, is another political foe of donald trump, is going to meet him at the airport when he arrives in california. so we'll have to see what tone all of these men take here. if past is prolog, trump could make it political. we'll see. and then as a final note, he then heads to las vegas tomorrow for just one week into his term, already holding his first rally. >> coming up, president trump once took a sharpie to a weather map. our next guest says he's doing the same thing to the constitution. molly jong-fast explains. when morning joe comes right back.

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>> therma. breaking news. a fast moving disaster in california. >> breaking news israel and hamas will enter. >> a. >> cease fire. >> in the nation's capital. >> philadelphia. >> el paso. >> the palisades. >> from msnbc. >> world. >> headquarters, we saw elon musk take kind of a powerful role. did anything about how he wielded his power surprise you? do you not need a katrina level type of response that is rebuilding to make sure it won't happen again? you've obviously made a decision to resign. are there any lessons that can be learned as you're talking to members of your congregation, what do you tell them about how to stand up for their own moral beliefs, but still find grace in this moment? >> american madison keys will play in a grand slam final for the second time in her career,

eight years after her runner up finish at the u.s. open, keys has earned another swing at a major, rallying from a set down yesterday to upset second seeded iga swiatek and advance to the australian open final. keys will meet two time defending champion irina sabalenka in the title match tomorrow night. on the men's side, alexander zverev got a free pass through to the semis after novak djokovic retired midway through the match with an injury. zverev had just secured an 81 minute first set in a tie break when djokovic, who was playing with a muscle tear in his left leg, conceded the contest and confirmed zverevs spot in sunday's final. zverev will take on top ranked italian jannik sinner, who advanced this morning after eliminating american ben shelton in straight sets. so, joe, i love the polis.

iga swiatek. i like her. >> i mean, it was an incredible tiebreaker. it was a ten point tie breaker and iga was ahead through most of the tiebreaker. and so incredible ending there. and djokovic of course it's always fun watching pardon the interruption and hearing the back and forth on wilbon calling djokovic the goat and saying if he won this time, he definitely would be the goat. not so in this case. willie. the wall street journal has a headline the buffalo bills have a chiefs problem. the solution weighs 1,909 pounds. and they talk about their massive offensive line and how the bills use the jumbo package. >> they use. >> they use six six linemen instead of five. and it's worked this year. the bills, the wall street journal records have averaged the most yards per, per, per down and also scored the most touchdowns. so i do

think if there's a year, as i said, a couple of weeks ago when pablo said, no, no, don't do it, i think if there's a year that josh allen and these bills can stop the chiefs, this is the year. >> we'll see. they got to go on the road again. they did beat the chiefs. the only team to beat the chiefs this season beat them earlier this season. but it's a different gear for these chiefs when they get to the playoffs. but this is clearly a more flawed chiefs team that has been in past years, had so many narrow victories. lucky bounces, bad calls you could argue last week go in their favor. we'll see if they get lucky again this weekend. so the finalists for the nfl mvp were josh allen right now joe burrow, jared goff, lamar jackson and saquon barkley. loan running back in the group finalists for the mvp. that announcement came yesterday, but just two of those star players are still in contention for the lombardi trophy, set to play in conference championships this weekend. the eagles will count on barkley heavily sunday to

carry them through the nfc title game against division rival the washington commanders sunday night in the afc, allen and the bills head out on the road to arrowhead, where they will try to stop the two time defending champion chiefs from booking a third straight trip to the super bowl as they seek a three peat. joining us now, the host of pablo torre finds out on meadowlark media. msnbc contributor pablo torre. pablo, good to see you. good morning. all right. viewers guide for the weekend. what are you going to be watching? >> yeah, i mean, let's start in chronological order. i mean, the commanders eagles thing, we'll start there because they're going to give us that first. the commanders are in an interesting position, like an ncaa tournament position to me. they have obviously the hottest team right now, but also they have the best player right now when it comes to just look at this matchup. compare every position group. the eagles have at every other position than quarterback and advantage. but at the most

important one, it's the rookie having the greatest rookie season, i think, in nfl history. and so for me, as much as the eagles have all that lily i'm i'm leaning commanders here. i really am. >> you know, the thing is, it's so hard to say how a rookie and how an up and coming team is going to perform as the stakes get higher every week. and of course, when you're at the nfc championship game, that's as high as it gets. i, i've been thinking that too this week that it's certainly a possibility because like the chiefs, the eagles at times have won ugly have just sort of you know they ground their their their opponents out. if jayden daniels is hot, if he takes it to the next level this is going to be yeah a really fascinating game. either side could win. but i'm with you. daniels could do it. >> yeah look look jalen hurts to me your guy right. alabama's own jalen hurts right. he's been

struggling and he's been hurting. and that has been an issue. so the defense of the eagles to be clear probably the best in the league here. but beyond that it's like ten jayden daniels be the guy where you strap a heart rate monitor to him and you're like, this guy shows signs of calmness in live fire. and that's what we've seen. and i just think when you're when you're at aa2 minute drill scenario, you want the guy who's most calm. and the guy i trust the most right now is jayden daniels. and i like that style. yeah. >> yeah, certainly we have seen cinderella playoff runs before pablo sort of end when the when the they face a tough defense. the eagles the great defense. they can run the. >> ball really good. >> they're home. but daniels is special. and it's also a division game they won't be scared of. >> nfc east tends to be messy historically. >> yeah. so let's turn now to the marquee matchup. the 630 game on sunday. it is it is bills at chiefs. the bills, as

willie said beat the chiefs during the regular season. but the chiefs are undefeated at three and zero against them in the playoffs. you know that they will have home field advantage. that is a tough, tough place to play. my heart is with the bills. i think a lot of america is ready for something different. they'd love to see josh allen, that long suffering fan base back in the super bowl. man, it's tough to bet against the chiefs. >> yeah look comeuppance is overdue. a revolution is brewing against kansas city. claire mccaskill, of course, is trying to suppress that revolution at every turn. she's wrong. >> she's not here to defend herself. >> but i can feel her. i can feel her presence. >> i can. >> look, i love the movie amadeus and i bring that up. i bring that up because to bring you in. but also but but also because when i see mahomes and i see josh allen, i'm reminded of mozart and salieri, respectively. >> it was a good movie. >> salieri, just for people, not only a great character and a great movie, a good, if not great composer in his own right. the issue is, as much as they

are four and four. by the way, joe allen and mahomes are four and four head to head career right? salieri. josh allen is zero and three in the postseason. and so this is the thing we talk about in sports. when the spotlight turns up, when the heat gets turned up, who becomes better and who becomes worse. and when you're going up against. wolfgang amadeus mozart, maybe we should stop pretending that they're the same guy. and i love josh allen, i do, it's just it's just really hard to bet against. to bet against mozart. yes, yes. >> yeah it is. but we'll see what happens. i mean, you know, rivalries are one sided until they're not. of course, we saw what the red sox did to the yankees in zero four, and that changed everything. yeah, that that changed everything. says thank you for the opening there. i want to quickly go around and i want to ask everybody the mvp choice. and willie, let's start with you. i mean, you know, i

understand you want to make the vote before the playoffs are over. i you know there no doubt about it. the mvp for the regular season was lamar jackson i love lamar but but how do you name somebody an mvp that can't ever take their team to the promised land. it's supposed to be most valuable player. the person who takes i mean if we're just going by season, i mean joe burrow could get it. i mean, nobody was hotter than him the second half of the season. but, you know, if josh if josh allen takes his team to the super bowl, it's going to be kind of strange having lamar jackson once again, who had the best season regular season, lamar winning the mvp again. i just think they need to push the voting back because it does matter how you play in december and january. >> yeah, but the mvp awards

never really been the most valuable player. it's been the best player. and lamar jackson clearly had the best year. and he would never say this because he's a classy and good teammate. but he might be playing this weekend if not for a couple of terrible dropped passes by his always reliable tight end. so i, i think lamar is probably the easy pick here. and i would say it doesn't go to running backs much anymore. but saquon barkley had an absolutely incredible year. and as a giants fan i can't root for the eagles exactly. but i am rooting for him. so if they won, i'd be very, very happy for saquon barkley because he's a great guy and a phenomenal player and he deserves it. >> coming up, an update on the legal battle rocking hollywood. blake lively and justin baldoni are locked in a bitter feud and things just took another huge turn. those details straight ahead on morning joe. >> best behavior turn your back

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elevated design. >> for. >> thoughtful. >> living thuma. >> but trump. >> doesn't expect. >> all these. >> executive orders to. >> pass legal scrutiny. he's signing those things. >> the way, like. >> guys swipe right. >> on. >> every tinder profile, okay? yo, he. >> just needs. >> 1 or 2 to hit. and that's the weekend, baby. the point is, trump is going to try. whatever he can to shut. >> the border down. >> and last night, trump sat down for some conversation and light manspreading with sean hannity to explain why. >> in an oval office sit down. >> last night. >> president trump repeated false claims that. >> other countries. >> are sending their prisoners here. >> they've emptied their jails. i would, if i were the president or prime minister or something of another country. i'd empty my jails right into america.

>> you did do that. like three days ago. with the. with with the. gen six thing. remember that? that guy. >> handled you. >> all those cheesecake. >> factory menus and you signed them all. >> welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe. at 6 a.m. on the west coast. time to get up. 9 a.m. in the east, along with our own jonathan lemire. we have special correspondent at vanity fair and the host of the fast politics podcast, molly jong-fast, and president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation. reverend al sharpton joins us. so president donald trump's promised immigration crackdown is underway this morning, with ice agents arresting hundreds of undocumented immigrants in several major cities across the

country. nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake has the latest. >> the first of 1500 active duty u.s. troops deployed by president trump. arriving at an army airfield in el paso, texas. to help boost. border security. >> trump's border czar. >> promising more. >> big changes, are. >> coming to see border wall being in construction. >> you're going to see a lot of soldiers. >> down there. >> on the impeachment progress and putting concertina wire up border barriers. >> those barriers. multiple sources say, could. include the expanded use of floating buoys like. >> these installed. >> by the border patrol along the rio grande to deter migrant crossings. and those who do cross will find an asylum system all but shut down by a series of trump executive orders. >> it was really an invasion. we will not allow our territory to be violated. >> it comes as ice conducts raids in some cities, including boston and in newark, new jersey, where the mayor says agents raided a local business, detaining, quote, undocumented residents as well as citizens,

adding that one was a veteran who was asked for his military documentation. ice saying agents sometimes encounter u.s. citizens while conducting field work and may request identification. trump teasing more to come in a fox news interview that aired overnight. >> now we have to get people out of our country that would have never been here. >> but the president's plan to end birthright citizenship, which he considers a magnet for migrants, was dealt a blow thursday. trump's executive order would stop automatic citizenship going to children of undocumented immigrants. but a federal judge in seattle temporarily blocking it. judge john kavanagh, a reagan appointee on the bench for 40 years, writing, quote, i can't remember another case where the question presented is as clear as this one. this is a blatantly unconstitutional order. trump reacting hours later. >> obviously. >> we'll appeal it. >> there's no surprises with that judge. >> nbc's garrett haake reporting. so a lot of activity this morning. we're working on corroborating. but rev, i'm just

curious what you think of so far, how this is being rolled out. of course, donald trump talked about this in the campaign. not shocking, but disturbing to some. and quoting the new white house press secretary as part of a tweet that she put out, if you illegally enter the united states of america, you will face severe consequences. so sending a very extreme message to a lot of people who are really scared. >> very, very. very scared. >> and i might. >> add that. >> when you look. >> at the fact that there is a serious element of profiling here, that we're looking for people of a certain black or brown color, or when we're looking at the fact that this is a president who has told law enforcement, be tough on people and don't even put their heads down when you're throwing them in into a police van. he's openly endorsed police brutality, so i would assume that would go with ice as well. it's a nightmare for the civil

liberties and civil rights of people coming on the back of him, trying to deal with those that are born here, being denied citizenship, going back to the dred scott decision. so i think that if this was a cocktail, it would be all of the toxic, poisonous things you would not want to drink. and i think that he's doing this and he hasn't even been president for a week. >> right, joe? >> you know, jonathan. jonathan lemire. this is a replay in part to what happened in 2017 when president trump first got into office. you had deportations. you had this sort of activity. it was a bit more chaotic, actually, at the beginning of last time than this time. but it looks like the wheels are now in motion for this. two things. one, as we say, and everybody else has said on this show, this is in part why donald trump got

elected. he ran on illegal immigration. he ran on massive deportation, i think is what he said. he also, even in michigan, had a speech where he talked about if it had to be bloody deportation, it would be that. and voters voted for him. the question is this, though, any indication early on how widespread this is, how wide the net is being cast? because i think that's going to be the real question. we had heard will the january 6th cases were going to be taken on a case by case basis. that ended up not being true. and then we heard here that they were going to focus mainly on illegal immigrants who had committed crimes after coming to the country illegally. any early indication there?

>> well, we know that, first of all, that tom honan and stephen miller, who were the architects of the trump immigration policy, which means deportation policy in this regard, you want to go as big as possible. and we should note the statement that mika just read from the press secretary, just talks about people who are here illegally, does not suggest they also committed any sort of other crime, any sort of violent crime. so at least for now, that distinction is not being made. but we are learning. there's been some reports of local media reports of some raids throughout the country in the last day or two in big cities, newark, new jersey, among them, boston. another a lot of details still unknown as to who exactly was the target of those raids. mollie. but part of this point here is indeed sort of shock and awe. it's about the image. it's about going big, looking, looking big and forceful. and to joe's point, polls suggest americans largely do support violent criminals being deported. but if people's only crime is being here illegally, that gets a little harder. >> yeah. and it will. >> be interesting to see. i

mean, what i'm struck by is that so much of this is in project 2025. you'll remember. project 2025, the thing that we started talking. >> about earlier. >> this year. >> a huge. >> website, a lot of information online. it became wildly unpopular when the american people started googling it. and then trump tried to distance himself. but all of these playbooks. right. sending troops to the border. you know, all of this, the immigration stuff, you know, even the 14th amendment, right. the war on the 14th amendment, trying to end birthright citizenship that's in there. so i do think it's interesting. and when people did search project 2025, they didn't like it. >> joe. >> yeah. you know, what's also interesting too is and we're going to see how this plays out way too early to talk about any trend lines. but we saw in the garrett hake hake package, a reagan appointed judge throwing

out the birthright citizenship claim, saying it was unconstitutional. president trump saying he's going to appeal that. we also seem to have a repeat, at least early on of the courts stepping in to the gap. we, of course, saw the 11th circuit do it on an appeal, even before donald trump got back into the white house, we saw the supreme court vote 5 to 4 that he did have to, in fact. stand for sentencing. and we've now seen this on immigration. i suspect there is going to be you're going to see a good bit of judicial pushback, even from republican appointed justices. it will be very interesting. we've also been talking this morning about the wildfires sweeping, still sweeping across los angeles and hoping for some

rain. but as as it goes in california, not too much rain because that would cause mudslides. donald trump is going to visit california. let's bring in democratic senator adam schiff. he is a member of the judiciary committee. we have a lot to talk to you about, senator, but let's start about just the horrific situation that continues in southern california with the wildfires. give us the very latest that, you know, on, on on the wildfires and the efforts to bring relief to the people suffering there. >> the two. >> big fires. >> they eat and. >> fire. >> which is in the altadena area, the. palisades fire, they. >> have just created massive destruction. the loss. >> of thousands. >> and. >> thousands of homes, the. >> loss of many lives. >> those fires are increasingly. being contained. >> that's the. >> good news. on the other.

>> hand, we've had. >> a lot of new. fires pop. >> up. >> and the only good news. >> there is that. >> because there. >> are so many resources. >> in. >> la that have been. >> there to fight those two. >> massive fires, when these new fires, like the hughes fire pop. >> up near lake. >> castaic. >> then we have a lot of resources. >> on hand to try. >> to. >> put those down. we're hoping for some wet weather. >> as you. >> say, we. >> don't want too much wet weather because then there's a real risk of mudslides. but i'm hoping and praying that we have gotten. through the worst of this and that we will increasingly contain these fires and get beyond this. >> horrible. >> horrible fire season. >> so donald trump is going to california. we reported earlier today what what do you hope he will see there? and what do you hope he will do? >> well, i'm glad that he's going. a number of us invited him to come to the state and he

reciprocated, inviting us to join him to go to these fire areas. regrettably, senator padilla and i have votes today in the senate, so we aren't able to go. but i'm glad he's going, and i'm glad that he's going to see the devastation, because i think, frankly, until you see it and the scope of it, whole neighborhoods gone block after block after block, it's hard to wrap your head around. i think i hope he can't help be, but be moved by what he's seen. and i would hope also that we can get away from this kind of partizan talk of conditioning aid to california. we've never done that when it comes to our fellow citizens who are hurting. and california, frankly, has been the most generous state in terms of supporting our fellow citizens, whether they're in red states or blue when they face disaster. so we need help right now. we're going to need help to clean up quickly, to rebuild quickly. and a lot of what the president says his goals are to

streamline that process. our goal is to so there's a lot for us to work on to bring relief to people. >> i was going to ask you, despite the obvious heated differences between not only yourself and president trump, but also governor gavin newsom and donald trump, governor newsom will be meeting him on the tarmac. you say that you all share goals. is this an opportunity? is this an opportunity to have donald trump working with with governor newsom and yourself on, on give us a couple of examples of where that could actually happen. it would appear shocking to a lot of people, but you suggest that may be possible. tell us what you mean. >> yeah. >> it should be possible. the people that are affected by this are democrats and republicans. it really doesn't matter how they vote. it shouldn't matter how they vote. and this is a great opportunity to come together in the wake of this

tragedy and show that we can work together, even while we may fight over other issues, and we'll have to fight over other issues when it comes to helping our fellow citizens who are suffering, that should bring us together. so whether it's making sure that we have the resources to deal with this, whether it's making sure that we can rebuild quickly, that the federal agencies involved like epa and fema, provide the help and resources, work efficiently. all of that is ample ground to get together and make things happen. so i appreciate the gesture that he made in inviting myself. senator padilla, members of the house delegation to accompany him to california. and we hope this is the beginning of a partnership when it comes to dealing with this tragedy. >> so, senator, stay with us. we want to ask you about some developments regarding donald. president trump's january 6th pardons, two far right leaders who are free from jail following trump's blanket pardon for the

insurrectionists, say that they want the president to seek retribution on their behalf. this week during interviews on infowars, the company, of course, linked to conspiracy theorist alex jones, both enrique tarrio of the proud boys and stewart rhodes of the oath keepers appeared to suggest that they want trump to seek revenge. >> the people. >> who the heat. >> they need to be put behind. >> bars and. >> they. >> need to. >> be prosecuted. the president is going to do a fantastic job. >> of. >> enacting justice. >> true justice. >> for what's been going on. and success is going to be the rest is going to be retribution. >> the deep. >> state is still there. >> we've got to root them out. and that's. why really, i'm still of the opinion. and i think kash patel is down with this, that mass declassification. >> and exposure is the, the. silver bullet. take down the deep state. >> so senator words there for

retribution. those could include capitol police officers certainly could include the january 6th subcommittee. of course you were on that. and because you were, you even received a pardon, a preemptive pardon from president biden. so let's get your thoughts. what is your degree of concern about hearing these calls for retribution? >> well, this is what happens when you empower white nationalist groups, when you empower people who use violence to try to thwart the transfer of power, they respond. they feel emboldened to go on and call for potentially even more to come. this is the this is the danger. and i think of all of these acts we're seeing among the most destructive of our democracy is pardoning not just people who beat and attacked and gouged and bear sprayed baseball bats and police officers. that is heinous enough to give those people pardons, but they were doing that in the service of a broader crime, and that was to overturn our election. when you give

pardons to people like that, you're basically saying, hey, if you use violence to keep me in power, i will have your back. and as we see they're emboldened, they feel that the president has their back. >> all right. democratic senator adam schiff of california, thank you very much for being on this morning and to this very point and many others. molly, your latest piece for vanity fair is entitled donald trump takes a sharpie to democracy. tell us about it. >> so again, this is a lot of this is project 2025 stuff, right? like the 14th amendment, the birthright citizenship, the war on these sort of modern civil rights, the war on the modern civil rights movement. right? i mean, remember the 14th amendment came at part of reconstruction after slavery. this is a sort of unwrapping. and i think what's particularly interesting that's been added now is this sort of war on khat, on carter, on some of carter's advancements, you know, from

fema to the department of education. it's a sort of rapid undoing of a lot of democrats greatest accomplishments in government. taking a sharpie or putting a red line on a history. reverend al. >> i think that it is clear we've seen in three days exactly what mollie wrote about. he has turned around on the civil rights division in the justice department at a time that we still see a rise in racism, anti-semitism, homophobia. and he has ended with lyndon johnson did around equal employment. when we still see the average black family making $30,000, i think it is, or less a year than white families. so certainly not equal. and he is clearly said that he is going to deal with the question of affirmative action in a way that is

yesterday's news. so the race gap he's he's dealt with, i think that he's also dealt with the fact that he's wiped out the whole idea of police reform and trying to come to some kind of consensus. so i think that he has done a sharpie there. let's remember. and i think too many people forget. i know that the history buff is joe on morning joe. is that when donald trump went into the white house, the one thing he did was hang a portrait of president andrew johnson. andrew johnson was a confederate by heart president that appointed judge roger taney to the supreme court, who oversaw the dred scott decision that led later to the 14th amendment. why would anybody ask donald trump why andrew johnson wasn't the most popular president? he is really with, with this birthright citizenship, really doing what he showed us in clear sight, doing what andrew johnson as

president. >> said it would. >> do and what he. >> said he would. time now for a look at the other stories making headlines this morning, the international business times has new reporting on a new dress code for spirit airlines. the carrier updated its terms on wednesday, prohibiting passengers from wearing see through outfits, exposing private parts or displaying lewd, obscene or offensive body art. the policy change comes after an incident in october where two women accused the airline of sexism for removing them from a flight for wearing crop tops. okay. the new york times reports that people are selling used cell phones that have the tiktok app on them for far more than they're worth. the app has not been available for download in either the apple or google stores since the brief ban last sunday. one seller tells the paper he was offered $5,700 on facebook marketplace for his phone. okay. and don't

expect egg prices to drop anytime soon. while inflation has contributed to the cost of a dozen eggs, the ongoing bird flu outbreak is to blame for prices that are 37% higher than a year ago. nbc news correspondent emilie ikeda has more. >> this morning, america's bird flu crisis showing no signs of slowing. >> with new cases. >> just this month. emerging in nearly 25 states. and for the first time in philadelphia. >> health officials. >> there are warning people to keep. >> an eye out. >> for sick wild birds and stay away from them. >> on new york's long island. >> people in hazmat suits on the ground. >> at crescent duck farm this. >> week, following. >> confirmed detection. >> of h5n1 or bird flu. >> the family run business. >> forced to kill its entire flock of nearly 100,000 ducks, something the thomases in illinois. also had to do. with their nearly 3000 hens.

>> it's been. a roller coaster of emotions. >> we just know. >> that we. >> have no control, and we. >> are just making the next. best choice for our family. and our farm. >> the fallout felt. >> at grocery. >> stores, where shoppers are finding empty shelves and higher prices. the cost. >> of a dozen. >> eggs surging 65% from a year ago. >> these eggs went up to ten. >> nine, $11. >> like what is going on in this world? >> since the outbreak started in 2022, the avian flu has impacted more than 135 million birds. and now a growing number of other species, including skunks, bears and cats. >> there have been more. >> than two dozen cases in cats. >> since early december. >> how are cats contracting. >> the. >> bird flu? >> one could. >> be from a raw diet. one could be from. >> if they're an indoor. >> or. >> outdoor cat and they're interacting with wildlife. >> health agencies are now encouraging pet owners to keep cats inside. the fda also calling for caution from pet food manufacturers, urging them

to take processing steps, such. >> as. >> heat treatment, that are capable. of inactivating viruses. >> it is a very serious virus and it's a very. >> fast acting disease. >> nbc's emilie ikeda with that report. we'll be following that story and also to a point you were making earlier. it doesn't actually change the point you were making, but for the. yeah. for accuracy. >> or something. yeah. it was president andrew jackson. i think i said andrew johnson, who succeeded abe lincoln. it was jackson who appointed judge roger taney. >> and that's. >> the picture. that's who did the dred scott decision. and that's the portrait donald trump hung up in his office. president andrew jackson. >> thank you. rev. coming up on morning joe, we'll dig into donald trump's efforts to end dei programs in the federal government. plus, there's a new wrinkle in the feud between. it ends with us costars blake lively and justin baldoni. following the release of raw footage from the set of the movie. we'll have the latest gossip on that, but also the potential legal implications

straight ahead. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. >> today. trump faced his. first setback. >> breaking news. >> out of seattle. a federal judge has just temporarily blocked president trump's order attempting to end birthright citizenship. the judge in this. case is saying that they have been on the bench. >> for over four decades. and this is a quote from the judge inside the courtroom. i can't remember another case where the question presented is as clear as this one. >> this is a blatantly unconstitutional order. >> whoa whoa whoa whoa. what does the constitution. >> have to. >> do with this? >> the constitution is for gun stuff. >> okay. who died and made this woke activist a judge? oh. woke activist a judge? oh. >> ronald my moderate to severe crohn's disease... ...and my ulcerative colitis symptoms... ...kept me... ...out of the picture. now... ...there's skyrizi. ♪i've got places to go...♪ ♪...and i'm feeling free♪ ♪control of my symptoms means everything...♪ ♪...to me♪

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agencies. that say some of these programs are. disguised using coded or imprecise language. >> yeah, you hear that? >> don't even. >> think about doing di in secret, right? >> don't be. >> meeting up. >> in back. >> alleys like yo, yo, you got any lesbian resumes for me today? and i. >> and i know you think di was. >> only invented in 2020 by democrats looking for a. >> fresh, new. >> way to lose elections. >> but donald trump is dedicated. >> to rooting. out di. >> all throughout history. >> one of the president's executive. >> orders revokes. >> an executive order signed by president lyndon johnson in 1965. >> that the trump administration. says mandated affirmative action. >> that's right. donald trump went back in time to kill. >> baby di. >> all right. there are growing concerns about what could happen next now that donald trump's anti dea executive orders are in effect this week, federal employees who work in dea programs were placed on paid

leave. two former biden administration officials tell nbc news many of those workers were political appointees. that changeover with each new administration. a source at the department of justice had also told nbc news the executive order will not have a major impact on staff positions. president trump had been promising to dismantle the program, claiming it diminishes the importance of individual merit, aptitude and hard work. but many underrepresented people who built strong government careers credit their success to dei programs. that includes the late colin powell, who was the first black man to serve as national security adviser, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and secretary of state. a special feature in the new york times magazine last october highlighted the controversy over

dei taking a closer look at the impact within the education system, specifically the growing frustration from students and faculty at the university of michigan. author nicholas confessore wrote in part, quote. programs across the university are couched in the distinctive jargon that, to day's practitioners, reflects proven practices for making classrooms more inclusive and, to its critics, reveals how deeply dei is encoded with left wing ideologies. michigan's own data suggests that in striving to become more diverse and equitable, the school has also become less inclusive. in a survey released in late 2022, students and faculty members reported a less positive campus climate than at the program's start and a less sense of belonging. students were less likely to interact with people of a different race or religion,

or with different politics. the exact kind of engagement dei programs, in theory, are meant to foster. i'd like to bring in the author of that piece, political and investigative reporter for the new york times, and staff writer the new york times, nick confessore. also with us for this conversation. we have the co-host of the weekend on msnbc, symone sanders townsend, and contributing columnist for the hill, matt lewis. and joe, i'm interested in hearing more about this, especially looking at some of those results that came back to show maybe dei not having the results it wanted. what was the political climate at the time as well? and i wonder if that factors in. >> yeah, i'm sure it does. and it's very interesting. some of the crosscurrents that we saw in polling that that this wasn't simply a white versus black or a white versus brown issue as far

as people who who may have opposed some of the dei programs. nick, your piece, it was pretty extraordinary, especially i want you to talk especially about how at michigan, the dei program that you found made the campus more divided, more litigious, and, of course, to the disappointment, obviously, of michigan administrators, more segregated. >> yeah. it was really startling to me when i found those numbers. >> joe. >> this is a school that did everything it thought it was supposed to do to make dei work. and keep in mind, michigan is a state that has banned affirmative action, so they didn't have that dei tool to encourage diversity, but their idea was we'll have a better school for more diverse. people will learn better. if it's more diverse, we'll take every step. we'll integrate dei into every facet of the school. half of the undergraduate courses have some

dei content, which means they have some focus on on race or ethnicity or religion or sex or gender. they built a very large bureaucracy, possibly the biggest one in the country. hundreds of people devoted to this task. and what they found was they could not simply increase the proportion of black students on campus, especially, they had small increases in first generation. and this program unfolded over a period of incredible tension in american politics about trump, black lives matter, racial justice, and all of that spilled back onto campus and overwhelmed the school and made it almost impossible to create the kind of inclusion they want to. >> i want to ask you, you had reported that dei, this program at michigan is, quote, deeply encoded with left wing ideologies. and you you use as an example of that the handouts that they put out, quote, on

identifying and addressing characteristics of white supremacy, culture like worship of the written word. and there were other examples you gave. i'm curious. that is obviously that obviously seems to be a far left of center. was it the whole program? i mean, was the did the whole program seem to have this kind of left wing tent, or were there just specific parts of it? what did you find first of all? and secondly, what did you find from students of color at michigan? were were they supportive of the dei programs, or did they feel even feel sort of this wariness about it? >> well, look, this is a really important question. when we talk about dei, there is so much imprecision about what we're

talking about. right. and most of these schools, dei includes financial aid programs, pipeline programs, programs to acclimate some veterans who are returning to campus, free laptop programs. but aspects of these dei programs also include some of the more left wing stuff about equity, like you were just reading that, you know, you know that that a being on time or f is on the written word is white supremacy and that stuff. i think a lot of people on campus don't find very effective or useful, but it's tricky because if you have a straight ban in the state on dei, it often sweeps away things that are pretty practical, along with things that might have more political content, might make more people angry. in terms of the students, i think the basic divide is that for the students, it's really focused on students of color. a lot of them feel these programs are not radical enough, they don't go far enough, and the other students feel they go too far and they kind of are inhibiting that.

they put too much pressure on them, that they create more division. it's very hard for these schools to square that circle under an idea of dei that says everyone's diversity is important. >> so, simone, i want you to comment. help us out in two areas. number one, the reality that not all dei programs are created equal. a lot of corporations getting rid of dei costco is not. they say it's worked for them. also dei programs, as we saw in the lead in made colin powell put colin powell in a position to really serve this country well and ably for years. so i'm curious about your thought about, you know, the overgeneralization of dei programs and also the concern that you could be throwing, as the old saying goes, throwing the baby out with the bathwater because there's some crazy stuff sprinkled throughout, let's say brochures or booklets. you're getting rid of an entire program

that could really make a positive difference. >> you know, i think. that dei has become the new. >> woke, if you will. you know, it's a word that people use to describe it's a catch all. >> and they actually. >> are not being specific, nor do they know exactly what they are talking about. i think that that. >> applies to the executive order that the president signed earlier this week. dei diversity, equity and. inclusion sometimes is d.o.j. accessibility, right? >> there are a. >> number of programs. >> like. >> back in the day these were called affirmative action programs. these were called inclusive programs. i'm thinking of programs like upward bound, which is a program that is a college readiness program disproportionately that affects disproportionately black and latino students who get into the program. and that has been their pipeline program to better college opportunities. i think about programs that i myself have been a beneficiary of. i was a diversity scholar at frazier stryker law firm because i was interested in going to law

school. so it was a very competitive scholarship program of the creme de la creme of the best. and i'm using these descriptors because in some, somehow we have begun to think of these inclusionary programs, these programs that are designed to create access for people that have traditionally been locked out of the access. that's what the executive order that lyndon b johnson signed all those years ago was really about. that's what affirmative action programs were creating access not just pt to be honest, if you look at the data, the largest beneficiaries of affirmative act are white won the workforce, women in these educational systems that are, you know, we talk about the gap between men and women. we heard a lot about that during the campaign. right? part of the upward mobility of women in this country, disproportionately white women, has been due to affirmative action. d programs. so i do think it is very, very

important that we pull back the layer and think about what we are really talking about here. and nikole hannah-jones has talked, i just think the best about this, and this is really this is a backlash. this is people saying this is this is playing at the worst of who we are at our core of americans, people who feel like if someone else is getting a if someone else is getting equity, it means i'm down right somehow that this is an attack on on on on on on. essentially white men in america, the dei programs are giving people a leg up that don't deserve one. and that is actually just not true. but the way that these programs and these initiatives have been talked about, frankly, in their most basic ways, have given the airs that they are unqualified individuals in many of these positions. and i can just tell you that the dei. quote unquote, programs, the affirmative action programing, is created so that

the creme de la creme and the best of the best have the same opportunities that other individuals who do not look like them have. like, how do we how do we account for the fact that before the, the, the boon of affirmative action programs, there were there were a lack of women and people of color and all these other positions? we can't say that they weren't qualified. so how do we account for that? >> yes. so it's really strong points there and rev to what someone was saying. it's another way of like for opponents of dei to, to label another. and that other is getting a hand up and i and i'm not. but we talk a lot. we've had to talk a lot about on the show in the last week or so that donald trump is fulfilling the promises he's doing what he said he would, and this is yet again, what he said he would. it was night after night. he railed against wokeism, but also dei on the campaign trail, he made a promise to his voters that he would do that. and that is what a plurality of american voters chose. >> donald trump raised it, and he said what he was going to do. but i don't think people understand the need. the dei or

affirmative action filled, first of all, affirmative action was authored by a black republican named arthur fletcher under richard nixon's administration, and it was in no way radical at the time because what they were trying to do is correct with inclusion, the fact that by law, many blacks and others were excluded. so you can't say you want a merit system. when we were excluded from bringing our merit to the table. so you were trying to repair that damage. so when you see corporations now that are saying we'll stop dei, they're not even defining what that is because many of them never had blacks, never had women, never had gays there. and that's why some of us are saying we need to then not. you don't want diversity, then you shouldn't have diversity in your consumers. we're boycotting, but we'll support others. we lead a group. i'm going to costco tomorrow. bring 100 of my members to shop with those that

understand, because we need to be able to say to trump, this is not up to you. you can't tell us where we spend our money. and donald trump. i used to go and meet with donald trump, try to argue back and forth different cases. i've never seen diversity in trump towers. show me where his top black executive is. nobody even got subpoenaed in four of his trials that were black. so for him to be talking about diversity is like me talking about being a rockette. next christmas season. >> and yet, matt, talk about if you could die hurt democrats. some could argue, and i wonder where where sometimes the republicans really have a talent out of taking things and making them bad words when they're not necessarily that. >> yeah. >> i think broadly. >> speaking. >> we all support. >> diversity, right? >> hopefully everyone does. not everyone in the country, but everyone here. i'm sure we all

do, broadly speaking. >> but i also think americans aspire. >> to. >> a colorblind. >> society to a meritocracy. >> and let's be honest, dei, we could argue maybe it was. >> necessary. >> but it it there is tension between a colorblind. society and dei programs. which push, you. >> know, break sort of. >> you know. >> equality that. >> may involve, you know, in. >> some cases. >> preferential treatment for certain races. and, look, i think at the end of the day, if you go back to nick's column, nick's article, i think part of the part of what's happened is really the pervasiveness of this. right? it used. >> to. >> be if you were on a college campus, for example, you know, you could sign up for a class or maybe you'd be interested. you pursue a class on feminism, let's say now it is really in your face. if you're a if you're in a corporation, you may have a hectoring hr director. if you're

on a college campus, you are basically subjected to hearing about how the founding fathers were colonizers, hearing about how european art is oppressive. you didn't sign up for this. this is basically thrust upon you. so i actually believe that if we ask ourselves, how is it possible that good, decent people ended up voting for donald trump and supporting donald trump? i actually think this is not the whole answer, but this sort of thing is part of the answer. i think that things have gotten too woke, too progressive, and there were a lot of americans out there. you know, those of us, you know, on this panel, we think a lot about, you know, ideas and like liberal democracy. and we're thinking, how could you possibly vote for trump? but if you're an average person, you know, in a corporation or on a college campus, day in and day out, the radicalism that confronts you, the threat to your kind of individualism and happiness is more likely to be, you know, a

diversity monitor who forces you to go through training, which is basically a struggle session. so how do we get trump? this is part of the story. >> i let's jonathan lemire, i know you have the next question for matt, but just to put a footnote on what he said when he started talking about art, this also from nick confessore story at the art museum. captions for an exhibit of american and european art attests to the histories of oppression. quote, even in works that may not appear to have any direct relation to these histories, the english department has adopted the 245 word land acknowledgment describing its core subject, the subject of english as quote, a language brought by colonizers to north america. jonathan lemire, you have the next question. >> yeah, certainly there were people who objected strongly to that. matt, the final thought to you is just simply you spoke

about why you think this matters to you, why it bothered people. what do you think about the political potency of this, the shelf life? is this something that four years from now, we're still going to be talking about? or is this is this a trump centric phenomenon, or do you think this is something that we'll be grappling with for a while? >> i think we've been grappling with this for 40 or 50 years. and look, i think the question is finding the right the right balance and the right tension. as i said earlier, hopefully all of us agree with the broad goals of diversity, equity and inclusion. the question is how do we go about it and does it work right? i think if you read nick's article, not only were these dei programs oppressive and pervasive, they were also counterproductive. most of the students were worse off. they were less united after going through this. and so to your to your point, i don't know about the how political politically relevant it will be in four years, but these issues are not going to go away. we have to find a way to address the

fundamental problems and to help people. right. if colin powell is a prime example of someone that, as you noted, benefited from affirmative action without punishing other people and without creating a backlash where a lot of people feel like there's indoctrination taking place and that they're being punished basically because of the color of their skin or because of their gender. >> i also think of michelle obama's speech at the dnc when she talked about the affirmative action of inherited, inherited wealth. just thought i'd put that out there. this is obviously a really important, but highly charged conversation of which it's really impossible to go really deep. we've tried here, we've barely scratched the surface, but we're going to continue to try in the weeks to come. political and investigative reporter at the new york times, nick confessore, will be reading your important piece online. contributing columnist at the hill, matt lewis and msnbc host symone

sanders. townsend, thank you all very much. symone will be watching the weekend, saturday and sunday morning at 8 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. you can also catch symone on the newest episode of morning mika, hosted this week by psaki. jen psaki, available right now on peacock and youtube. >> joe and symone, i'm just curious. such a boring week. what are you going to talk about on the weekend? >> well, we will definitely be getting into this dei conversation. and we've got the attorney general of new jersey on lots of things happening in new jersey. obviously, coming on the heels of that very prominent ice raid that just happened just last night in new jersey. so the attorney general will join us among some other folks. so we encourage people to tune in. senator lisa blunt rochester will be with us on sunday. >> fabulous. thank you, simone. and still ahead, the latest on the legal battle between actors

blake lively and justin baldoni after they starred in the film. it ends with us. what a name. we'll show you the behind the scenes footage that both sides are arguing proves their point. morning joe will be right back. >> important health care announcement. if people tell you your tv is too loud, or if listening in some environments has become too difficult. we are requesting your participation. >> in a special. >> program called the 30 day risk free challenge hearing life hearing centers are seeking people with hearing difficulties to evaluate a new 100% digital mini hearing aid now being released. all people with hearing aids or hearing difficulties are wanted to take part in this 30 day risk free challenge. evaluating this new high tech device that sits discreetly behind your ear. this

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>> is right. >> under your nose. >> what's your name again? >> 52 past the hour. the legal battle continues between actress blake lively and director justin baldoni costars in the film. it ends with us. baldoni's lawyer has released new behind the scenes footage of the two stars interacting on the set of their film, but both actors dispute

what the video actually proves. nbc news entertainment correspondent chloe melas has more. >> on the far right. >> this footage, which appears in the finished version film it ends with us only in this brief slow motion montage appears to show the two stars discussing how to play the scene as they slow dance. baldoni's team says the three takes of this scene, reportedly shot in may 2023, showed that what took place on set doesn't match claims of sexual harassment that lively made in a legal complaint last month, according to the complaint. while filming a slow dance scene, baldoni was, quote, caressing miss lively with his mouth in a way that had nothing to do with their roles. in the raw footage released by the director's attorney, the two stars can be heard talking about production details while playing to the camera as the couple in love. >> with i don't know about you. >> the complaint says. baldoni,

quote, dragged his lips from her ear and down to her neck as he said, it smells so good. baldoni's representatives say that the tape proves it didn't happen. >> i'm probably getting a breakdown of you. sounds good. >> well. >> it's not bad. it's my body makeup. >> lively's legal team firing back in a statement, quote, justin baldoni and his lawyer may hope that this latest stunt will get ahead of the damaging evidence against him, but the video itself is damning. lively's representatives say that the footage corroborates her account of what happened, arguing that it shows baldoni quote, attempting to kiss her, kissing her forehead, rubbing his face and mouth against her neck, flicking her lip with his thumb, caressing her, telling her how good she smells and talking with her out of character, adding that no woman should have to take defensive measures to avoid being touched by their employer without their consent. the newly released videos follow a lawsuit filed last week by baldoni against lively, her pr team and husband

ryan reynolds for defamation and extortion. lively's legal team calling the lawsuit another chapter in the abuser playbook, a bitter battle where both sides believe the same scene tells a very different story. >> and chloe joins us now, along with reporter, former state attorney for palm beach county dave aronberg. wow, what a mess. it ends with them. i mean, this is going to end badly. molly, you have the first question. >> chloe. there's so much back and forth with this story. he sues her. she sues him just a lot. what do you really think is going on? >> i think. >> that these. are two. >> incredibly powerful. >> people in hollywood. >> blake lively. >> and her husband, ryan reynolds, are one of. >> the. >> most successful, powerful people in hollywood. you also have justin baldoni that had a growing fan base, a star on the rise, a successful director, a very successful production company, and this was meant to. >> be this. >> beautiful movie based on the book by colleen hoover, the

adaptation about domestic violence and the pr campaign went very badly for blake lively, and she is blaming justin baldoni for that. she says that it was his pr team that orchestrated a smear campaign against her, but now this is unraveled into an incredibly litigious situation, with both sides suing each other now for hundreds of millions of dollars. and now baldoni taking on the new york times for writing a piece about what they claim happened behind the scenes with that smear campaign. i think these are two people fighting for their reputations, and. it will probably potentially end up in a court of law. >> dave, will you talk us through the legal machinations here? >> sure. >> molly, this is a $400 million lawsuit that he filed here. this is no ordinary lawsuit that baldoni filed. >> he also filed against the new york times, as. >> you. >> know. >> for $250 million. the thing that really struck me is that the statement of facts in

baldoni's lawsuit is. >> a. >> whopping 179 pages. i've never seen that before. it shows that the audience here is not really the judge. it's all of us. this is a pr counteroffensive. this reminds me of what johnny depp tried to do, because he wanted his version of his story to get out there, and the public took his side, johnny depp. and it seems that the public is more on baldoni's side, at least from the comments of my own youtube channel. it seems that we really are in a post metoo movement here, where you have the election of donald trump. despite being found liable for sexual assault. you have people supporting johnny depp, and now you have people supporting baldoni. and that tape can be viewed in different ways. it depends on the lens you view it through. because the conversation between the actors are pretty innocuous. but on the other hand, blake lively's camp is saying that this the innocuous language was because she was trying to diffuse an uncomfortable situation where he was leaning in to kiss her and she wanted no part of it. so again, it's like a rorschach test. it depends on your point

of view. >> yeah. and, chloe, let's talk about what this is doing for the industry writ large. because, look, there are scenes like this in a lot of movies. what are what are the aftershocks here? how is the rest of hollywood watching this? what adjustments could be made? >> two words. intimacy coordinator. this is why you need one on set. and justin baldoni has claimed that blake lively that. >> she. >> didn't want one or she didn't need one. but see, this is the issue. justin baldoni is also the director, so he's in these scenes with her that are very intimate. if you've seen the movie, there are a lot of intimate scenes throughout the whole movie. i just watched it again last night to make sure. and she says in her civil complaint that he improvised all of. >> these. >> all of this intimacy, that there was unwanted kissing and unwanted language. but then she talks about a toxic workplace. she says that he allegedly entered her trailer unannounced while she was breastfeeding her child. at one point. when production shut down during the hollywood strikes in 2023, she actually had a list of demands that she sent his production company, and although he denied any wrongdoing, he he agreed to

certain boundaries and parameters before they went back to set. it is a pr battle. i mean, justin baldoni's team has said that they are actually going to be putting up a website potentially today, this weekend, that's going to have even more behind the scenes footage and emails and letters and correspondence between the two of them. >> all right. we're going to cover that angle in the weeks and days to come. nbc's chloe melas and former state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg. thank you both. rev al, what do you have this weekend in politics nations? it's not going to be the blake lively story. >> no, we'll be talking a lot about dei, how civil rights groups are planning boycotts and buy ins to support those. and we'll be talking about the whole front of with what is going on with the president in terms of how he is trying to, in many ways, demonize his political opponents. >> rev. thank you. that does it for us this morning. we'll be back monday morning, bright and early. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now.