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and from floods to flames, the president traveling today from coast to coast, visiting communities in north carolina and visiting los angeles, both devastated by extreme weather. his controversial message. and will trump also get his pick to lead the defense department? we'll go to capitol hill, where for a check on where things stand with just a handful of hours before pete hegseth is expected confirmation vote, our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. let's begin with the growing pushback to the trump administration's ice raid that new jersey officials call unlawful and egregious. nbc's erin mclaughlin is reporting from newark. what do we know about this raid, and what can you tell us about new jersey's response? and maybe it could serve as a litmus test for future trump raids, especially in blue states. >> hey there chris. well, the. mayor of new york is outraged, saying, what happened here in newark yesterday was, quote, unconstitutional. ice raided the

seafood depot behind me. nbc news managed to speak to an employee of the depot who said that following the raid, ice took away three employees. she said she believed those employees were from ecuador. she said that they had been unable to provide documentation to the ice agents during the raid. take a listen to what else she had to say. >> they catch three guys and they. >> like. >> order like a. >> prison. and i was like, a little bit. everybody's afraid because i don't know if this. is normal, but they is from, i think ecuador. and it was was crazy. they asked for the manager, but the. >> manager was. >> upstairs and they. only came came in and that's it. >> according to the mayor,

during the course of the raid, a number of individuals were detained, including a u.s. citizen. a veteran was repeatedly questioned about his military documents, according to the mayor. ice, responding to those reports in the form of a statement saying u.s. immigration and customs enforcement may encounter u.s. citizens while conducting fieldwork and may request identification to establish an individual's identity, as was the case during a targeted enforcement operation at a work site in newark, new jersey. this is an active investigation, and per ice policy, we cannot discuss ongoing investigations. according to the mayor, the raid was done without a warrant. there were a number of arrests made by ice in a number of other sanctuary cities across the united states yesterday, including san francisco and chicago, and speaking to advocates of immigration, immigration advocates, representatives from ngos. and there right now in these cities is a full court press to inform

these businesses and other entities what to do if ice shows up. chris. >> erin mclaughlin, thank you for that. well, that raid is just one of many border and immigration moves made by the trump administration in its first week. here to sort through it all, nbc's julia ainsley. and so i wonder, julia, because you follow this so closely, what are you keeping the closest eye on? so to put this in perspective, there are three big changes in the way ice does business. that's changed from last week to this week really just changed in the past 24 hours. one is numbers. we understand that yesterday ice arrested over 500 migrants by comparison in september. that's the latest number for which data is available from the biden administration. ice arrested 282 migrants on average per day in the month of september, so they've almost doubled that. the other thing they're doing is using military planes. you've seen those images. they're walking migrants onto these large military planes to deport them. that's new. i was just at a flight last week, one of the

last deportation flights of the biden administration, and saw them get on what looked like a commercial aircraft, what looked like a plane that would have taken down to texas to see that. the third thing they're doing is that they're able to use they're able to do workplace raids now because that's a change in policy, something that we saw under the george w bush administration, the trump administration. but the biden administration did not use workplace rates. so they're bringing that back. and that's what we're seeing evidence of in newark, new jersey. that's something the biden administration didn't want to do because they thought it would instill fear in a community, much like the complaints we're hearing from newark now. rather than going after the employees, they would try to go after the employers who had a pattern of hiring undocumented, undocumented immigrants. but things that haven't changed is the fact that ice is arresting criminals and deporting them. that happened. i've been with ice on those raids right here in the d.c. area, where they have arrested people who had who were wanted for crimes in their home countries, also arresting people who had been convicted of crimes here in the united states. and

they were arresting them after they served their time to deport them back to their home countries. these are lists that ice has kept for a while. probably most of the people we're seeing this week who are being arrested were already flagged under the previous administration. they're just condensing the time that they're using. maybe they would have arrested all of these people in a month. now they're trying to do it in a matter of a week. and so that is what is pushing all of these numbers up. and it's this shock and awe factor that trump frankly promised on the campaign trail that's now starting to come to fruition. but there's still a few roadblocks. the main one is funding. if trump can't get more manpower to go out and arrest people, he will have to look at other ways. that's why we're seeing the use of the military. and just this week we heard from stephen miller. they're going to use the components of d.o.j. that's people like the u.s. marshals, the dea, and alcohol, tobacco and firearms who usually go after gun sales and violations of gun laws. now, they could be used for immigration, too. these are all workarounds, really, to get over this problem of a lack of

resources and funding. so we'll see in the coming days and weeks how long they can sustain this. and if these numbers start to go up, it will probably be likely we will see more workplace raids, more immigration arrests and more use of the military both at the border and in deportations. julia ainsley, thank you for that. okay. from immigration to president trump threatening to reform or even get rid of fema while in the midst of a tour of national natural disasters. nbc's vaughn hillyard is in washington for us. what more can you tell us? vaughn. >> the president is wheels up now from north carolina. he's making his way to los angeles. this is the president's first trip since his inauguration on monday, visiting to disaster zones number one in north carolina outside of asheville, visiting the communities that were devastated by hurricane helene. and as part of his visit there, donald trump, as he was during the course of his 2024

campaign in the lead up to election day. highly critical of fema and its response to the disaster to the hurricane. take a listen. >> fema is a very expensive organization that really doesn't work out very well. it hasn't. this is not the only example. so it was up to me right now. it ended right now. and i just let the state take care of the problem. i mean, you can always have problems. let the state if it's florida, it's a hurricane, let florida take care of it. they don't need fema to come in. >> now, a few parts to those comments from the president in north carolina. number one, it is states that do lead the disaster response, and fema does not respond until they are invited and come at the request of state governors. or if a if the president himself signs a national disaster emergency. and so for this case here, this is a matter of fema, often most coming in to not only provide assistance to state and local

authorities and response teams, but also long term response and ensuring that the states have the resources in order to ensure the help of these communities. the second part of this is in order to eliminate fema, as the president trump is suggesting he could seek to do. it would require the authorization of congress through the presidential reorganization act to eliminate any departments or agencies or restructure them. the last time that happened was during the ronald reagan administration. as i noted, president trump is now on his way to los angeles, where, of course, he has remained highly critical of the governor, the mayor, and the response from the state of california and has suggested that aid should be given with conditions on it. of course, governor newsom and tim have sparred in the last two weeks, governor newsom indicating that he will meet the president on the tarmac there at lax. >> chris vaughn hillyard, thank you. let's go to capitol hill now, where we're getting close

to a vote on pete hegseth controversial nomination to lead the defense department. nbc's julie sirkin is following this for us. okay. what do we know about where the vote stands ahead of tonight's vote? >> well, at this point, senate republicans are trickling out of a closed door meeting that they've been holding for about an hour now to try and plot out exactly how tonight will work. and also some of the other nominees that democrats are trying to slow walk over this weekend. but let's focus in on hegseth, because you have wildly different perspectives. when you talk to democrats and republicans about his nomination, notwithstanding what senators susan collins and lisa murkowski had already said, the majority leader of the senate, republican john thune, had this to say. and then you'll hear the top democrat, schumer, on the other side, and we'll talk about it. >> mr. hegseth will bring a warrior's. perspective to the role. of defense secretary and will provide much. needed fresh. >> air at the pentagon. >> i hope my. >> republican colleagues. >> understand the danger of entrusting our military to

someone whose background has not been fully vetted. >> now, chris, that background that he is talking about is, of course, what we have reported in numerous people that have spoken to the fbi, including danielle hegseth, who signed that affidavit this week. but none of those allegations were transmitted by the trump transition team to the top lawmakers on the senate armed services committee, despite the fbi presumably having all of that information now, despite the fact that we are just a couple of hours away from hegseth potentially being confirmed, unless two other senate republicans join collins and murkowski and all democrats in opposing him, there are still new allegations and new points coming to light there, for example, is one question that was in the question for the record, typically doesn't make much news. but in this case, it was a question from senator elizabeth warren asking hegseth directly how much money he paid to the woman in monterey, california, that accused him of sexual assault in 2017, a charge hegseth had denied. and certainly we have now statements from that day saying, quote, no charges were supported by proof

beyond a reasonable doubt. and then, of course, that's lawyer pushing back, saying that hegseth strongly felt that he was the victim of blackmail and innocent collateral damage and a lie that the complainant was holding onto to keep her marriage intact. they ultimately decided to enter into a settlement for a significantly reduced amount at the height of the metoo movement. but all of these allegations and discovery, of which some republicans are still paying very close attention to. i'm told. >> julie sirkin, thank you for the update. and in 90s, we'll speak with democratic senator tim kaine about the upcoming confirmation vote for hegseth. he's already a no. but will enough republicans join him to tank the nomination? >> used car shopping. >> two rows. >> two dogs. i'm sold. >> whoa whoa whoa. let's pause. >> for the facts. whoa. >> like nearly half of all used cars, this puppy has been in an accident. but carfax. com shows how an accident impacts price. so you don't have to overpay.

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>> pete hegseth is working with a very slim margin when his confirmation is put to the test tonight. we already know two gop senators, lisa murkowski and susan collins, do plan to vote no. two more republican no votes would sink his nomination. joining us now, democratic senator of virginia, tim kaine, a member of the armed services committee. always good to see you, senator. what do you hear? are there two more republicans who you think will vote no on pete hegseth? >> chris. right now, the. >> odds are no. >> but it's not. >> a complete no. there is still a chance. because it is the case that sometimes members vote to forward nominations to the floor for a final passage vote, but then choose to vote against final passage on the theory that a presidential nominee should get a floor vote. you're right that senators collins and

murkowski were no votes. and senator murkowski laid out in a way that was as clear as any democrat could lay out why this would be a disastrous nomination. i hope that my republican colleagues will realize there are strongly republican, pro-trump folks with military expertise who could do this job, but who don't have the serious character deficits that mr. hegseth has displayed throughout. >> his career. >> well, i wonder what you are hearing. i mean, are these allegations against hegseth at all weighing on any of them in particular, the ones you talk about with, you know, strong concerns about national defense? would it have been better, perhaps politically, to focus more on hegseth qualifications, or lack thereof, as opposed to the allegations against him of a sexual nature? >> well, many did focus on his qualifications in the hearing. he ran two nonprofit organizations that were very small organizations. there was a whistleblower complaint against him and running one of the

organizations that is a multi-page document with the names of 36 individuals who had the opportunity to witness his creation of a toxic work culture. his frequent impairment by alcohol, his mistreatment of women, his mismanagement of the organization's finances. that information has been available to all senators and a couple of my senate colleagues, senators kelly and senator peters, focused on that in the hearing. but we also know from experience, chris, that. it's hard to get a republican to vote against a trump nominee. we were able to essentially get matt gaetz to withdraw a few months ago because of serious concerns about his character. so we frankly think qualifications and character are the two things that might convince republicans to look for somebody else to do the job. and we have focused on both of those. >> so in the meantime, i wonder if you think that the outcome of this vote, whatever it is, will help you and other democrats kind of shape your strategy for

other controversial nominees. and i'm thinking in particular, rfk jr, tulsi gabbard, kash patel, whose hearings are set for next week. >> yes. >> we look, we have to be. very focused in these hearings. you've named three that are very controversial. i will be part of one of those hearings, the rfk jr. hearing and the health, education, labor pension committee. but i do think this, you. >> know. >> you want to focus on qualifications and you want to focus on character. but of all of these, i would argue the secretary of defense is the most important. i think it's the most important cabinet position with millions of troops and their families and dod civilians depending upon strong leadership. somebody who has admitted to serial infidelity, who has admitted to paying off a sexual assault claim, who has been been alleged in very credible allegations to have mismanaged organizations and created a toxic work culture. we don't need that person at the helm of america's military.

>> well, let me invite you to come on next week around the rfk hearing. we'd love to hear your thoughts on that. then in the meantime. >> i'll look forward to it. >> likewise. in the meantime, try to have a good weekend. senator. appreciate your time. >> thank you. chris. >> you bet. and still to come on, chris jansing reports, with the help of a group of attorneys general, the trump administration's fight against dui is expanding to some of the dui is expanding to some of the bwhen you really need to sleep. you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. >> everything worse. >> we're showing we're consumer cellular gets great coverage. >> we use. >> the. >> same towers as big. >> wireless, so you get the same coverage. >> wow. >> wow. >> for unl home. it's where we do the things we love with the people we love. so, what if we lived tomorrow

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>> in his battle against diversity. donald trump is now getting some reinforcements. conservative attorneys general across the country are threatening legal action against some of the of the country's biggest banks over their dei programs. ten republican ags signed a letter directly challenging goldman sachs, jpmorgan chase, bank of america and other major financial institutions, writing, quote, you appear to have embraced race and sex based quotas in the furtherance of political agendas, which may violate federal and state laws. i want to bring in kristen gibbons feden, a civil rights attorney, former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. errin haines is editor at large of the 19th and an msnbc political contributor. kristen, it's one thing for the president to issue an executive order eliminating dei programs in the federal government. it's another entirely for state ags to go after private companies for hiring decisions and initiatives. so tell us about the laws that are in place for

these ags to lean on. if they do indeed want to pursue some kind of legal action. >> gs are actually. >> relying upon here because they're targeting financial. >> institutions. >> is that they're accusing them of fiduciary. >> duty breaches. >> and so. basically they're saying. that they are breaching their fiduciary duty to their shareholders. >> by prioritizing dei and really environmental. >> on social initiative policies over financial returns. however, quite frankly, in my view, this claim. >> this letter. >> the allegations. >> therein really. >> misinterpret fiduciary. >> duties and really ignore the. >> constitutional protections. >> that dei. >> programs are. >> designed to actually meet. >> well, in the last few minutes here, and we just learned that target is joining mcdonald's, walmart, meta, other companies that are rolling back the dei initiatives. on the flip side, i should say that 98% of costco shareholders voted yesterday to reject a proposal that urged the

company to evaluate the risks associated with their dei programs. but again, that's more the exception as we're seeing it so far. so what is the corporate world up against in this new environment under trump? >> yeah, i mean. >> just to go. >> back to kristen's point. >> for a minute. >> i mean, you have these conservative state ags that. >> that are. >> now targeting these banks. where were they prior to this executive order that the president issued this week about dei? were these laws not, you know, were they not in violation before? why are they just deciding to go, you know, go after these banks now? and i think, you know, a big part of the reason for it is because this executive order from president trump could be a permission structure for a lot of the institutions and corporations that, quite frankly. were committed to the. work of dei. you know, in recent years we saw that. right. and so what will they do now in the wake of this executive order, in the wake of kind of the rhetoric and actions that we've seen from this president around this issue, both on the campaign

trail and now that he has officially taken office? i think that this is definitely. >> an important question. >> and i think that, you know, the american people are also going to be asking, where are these institutions and corporations, what side they come down on as the president is looking to deemphasize diversity, equity and inclusion as an american value? >> and kristen, jamie dimon, who is, of course, the chairman and ceo of jp morgan chase, was asked yesterday about his approach to die. here's what he said. >> we are going. >> to continue to reach out. >> to. >> the black. >> community. >> the. hispanic community, the lgbt community, the veterans community. wherever i go. >> red. >> states, blue states. >> green states, mayors, governors. >> and they said they. >> like what we do, right? >> so we're not trying to pander. >> to any one side or any one thing. >> now. >> if you. >> pointed out something that we're doing that's wrong, i'd change. >> it at that point. >> and you know, so and. >> we will make modifications. >> going forward. but we're. >> very proud. >> of what we've done. and what.

>> we've done is lift up. >> cities, schools, states. >> hospitals. >> countries, companies. >> and we're going to do more of the same. >> i mean, does it sound to you like he's trying to thread the needle? i mean, saying, of course he's proud of his diversity initiatives, but also saying he's open to making changes. i don't know, what is the legal advice that you could give to a ceo who wants to embrace diversity, but is frankly feeling the squeeze? >> i really think from a constitutional standpoint, i think that dei and, you know. environmental social initiatives, if there's any, trying to push them away, it's going to really have significant hurdles if it's challenged in court, you know, because the. >> constitution. >> specifically the civil rights act of 1964, really provides all of our laws, provides strong protections against discrimination. and when you're looking at dei. >> and esg programs. >> when you're looking at it beyond the rhetoric and beyond the narrative. >> these programs were actually created to address the very systemic inequalities. >> that the civil rights act sought to eliminate. so from a civil rights perspective. >> these programs, they.

>> don't just comply with. >> the constitutional. >> rights. >> but they advance its core principles. >> when you're looking at it from an equality and fairness standpoint, i think the first amendment. >> also plays. >> a role here, because private companies. >> do have a right to. >> express their values and implement policies that reflect. >> those values, right? >> including dei and environmental and social initiatives. and i think that's really important. the other thing that i think is really important here, too, is that we're dealing with companies that. >> have international reaches, right. and so while this executive. >> order may have some rhetoric. >> and narrative. >> with regard to how companies should act in the united states. >> but if. >> they have. >> consumers from. >> an international. standpoint and. >> other countries are actually demanding or even mandating certain environmental perspectives as well as a dei efforts. they're going to have major challenges. so i think that one of the things they have to really be mindful of is looking at their. consumer base, but also just being mindful that

these, as aaron pointed out. these initiatives existed in the past. >> they were. >> they they survived constitutional challenges in the past and they should survive constitutional challenges in the future. >> kristen gibbons, always good to have you on. aaron. you're going to stay with me. thank you for that. coming up next on chris jansing reports, the search for a suspect after a child was shot after throwing a child was shot after throwing a snowball. only on swiffer duster traps 4x more dust, for a clean even mom approves of. that reach! making hard to reach... so easy. swiffer. wow. the mother of all cleans. love it or your money back! since starting the farmer's dog, bogart has lost so much weight. and he has so much more energy. he's like a puppy again. ♪ (banjo playing) ♪ c,mon bo! this is a before picture of bogart. such a big boy. pre-portioned packs makes it really easy to

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comm. >> a 12 year old child in connecticut is now recovering from being shot after throwing a snowball at a car. police say the child and another 11 year old were throwing snowballs when one hit a car that then looped the block to chase the kids and fired rounds at them. nbc connecticut's matt austin is reporting on this for us. matt, what more do we know about what happened here? >> yeah. good afternoon. chris and i did hear from hartford police today. unfortunately, no update on the child's condition and whether or not he's been released from the hospital, though earlier we were told he was expected to recover. now, to give folks a better idea of where we are, we're just a few blocks away from the state capitol here in connecticut. and this is a park, a very popular park. and after some fresh snow earlier this week, two kids were out here on wednesday evening doing what kids often do just playing in the snow, 11 and 12 years old. and we're told they were throwing snowballs at

passing cars. and that's when things took a really scary turn and gunfire erupted. we spoke with a lieutenant here in hartford who talked to us about how that 12 year old was hurt and what they think unfolded here. >> non-life-threatening injuries. thank god we have so far is a 12 year old was with another juvenile throwing snowballs. one of those snowballs hit a car. that car looped the block and chased the kids and fired rounds at the children. so we are actively looking for that vehicle. we're exploring all investigative leads. >> now. part of that investigation, of course, will be talking to any potential witnesses in this area. and really, key will be scouring for surveillance cameras and looking through those images to try to see if they can come up with a description of that suspect's vehicle as that is underway. so many here in the capital city, here in connecticut, thinking

about that 12 year old and his family. chris, back to. >> you, matt. austin, thank you so much for that. well, elation and anxiety in israel today as hamas shared the names of four hostages who are scheduled to be released tomorrow. nbc's raf sanchez is reporting from jerusalem. i understand by the terms of the truce, hamas is also expected to talk about the conditions of the remaining hostages. so tell us more about what you know. >> yeah, chris. so tomorrow we are expecting hamas to release four female israeli soldiers. they're known as the watchtower girls. these are unarmed women who were taken captive at an observation point on the israel gaza border on october 7th. you're seeing them there on your screen now. in exchange, israel is expected to release some 200 palestinian prisoners. some of them are serving long prison terms, and we expect that some of them will be deported to third countries. we don't know exactly which, but it could be

turkey. it could be qatar. when those four come out, assuming it all goes smoothly tomorrow, that will mean there are another 26 hostages inside of gaza slated to be released in this phase. and we do think that hamas is going to provide israel with some information about the condition of those 26, potentially, who is alive, who is dead. that could answer some of the really painful questions that have been agonizing israel for some 15 months now. in better news, those first three hostages, the three young women who came out on sunday, have now been back in israel for nearly a week, and we had a chance to catch up with the friend of one of them, emily demari, and asked what the first thing he did was when he saw his friend after her 471 days in captivity. take a listen. >> the first thing that we do is to smile and then, like all the emotional, all the stress, all the like, the bad, like. and all

the bad thing that you want to think about it, like, disappear away. yeah, fade away. and we only hug her. >> and so the hope here is that there may be many, many more of those emotional reunions still to come. chris. >> without a doubt. ralph sanchez, thank you. well, right now, a third of ireland is without power. as a sudden bout of extreme weather swept across the country. local authorities are reporting that at least one person died. the record shattering storm is now barreling through ireland and southwest scotland, with 100 mile per hour winds knocking down power lines, blowing off roofs, uprooting trees and even reducing the glass awning of this belfast bus stop to thousands of tiny pieces. the brutal conditions make even measuring those wind gusts nearly impossible. task. here's one man struggling to get a read. officials warn that the

storm will continue through the night. i'm not sure if our pictures actually match what i was saying, but we gave it our best shot, right? coming up next on chris jansing reports what a judge just told some january 6th defendants about trying to come back to washington, americans are feeling satisfied with life. we'll break down the with life. we'll break down the data. ahh, yellow! didn't pass the tissue test? buckle up! whoa! there's toothpaste white, and there's crest 3dwhitestrips white. whitens like a 400 dollar professional treatment. pilot: prepare for non-stop smiles. crest. hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. you're just a flightless bird. no. >> he's a dreamer, frank.

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proud boys, enrique tarrio, had been serving the longest january 6th sentence 22 years before he was sprung from his prison cell on monday as part of donald trump's blanket pardons. but now, he says the rioters deserve to be set free because they didn't get fair trials. >> there's absolutely nothing i will apologize for because i did nothing wrong. the proud boys did nothing wrong and american patriots did nothing wrong. asterisk. there might be some people in there that were violent, but the process was corrupt, so they do deserve a pardon. >> but earlier today, a federal judge ordered the leader of the oath keepers and several other january 6th defendants to stay out of washington. let's bring in nbc news justice reporter ryan riley. i know you've been talking to a lot of people inside the justice department today. what are you hearing? >> yeah, it's a really chaotic situation inside the justice

department right now. i actually just talked to an official who said that the intern program was canceled, and there were interns crying in the hallway. there's been a number of section chiefs who were reassigned to other units that had nothing to do with their background. you had some people from the environmental and natural resources division, for example, put on a sanctuary city task force. so essentially, it seems like one of the big effort here, here is to drive people out of the government and make, you know, make them do jobs that they don't want to do in terms of, you know, the capitol siege section, it's already been shuttered, shut, shut down, even though there was a, you know, almost a year left on the statute of limitations for those crimes. but now, obviously, the justice department is not going to be bringing any more charges against individuals charged in connection with the january 6th attack. and in terms of that, enrique tarrio video, i think that one of the frustrations that i've heard from a lot of prosecutors is that, you know, it feels like the justice department is essentially fighting with one hand tied behind its back, because they weren't able to speak out on a lot of these things. so enrique

tarrio, who's, you know, very media savvy person, can go on and make these claims that just aren't supported by the court evidence because people didn't really see what happened inside of those courtrooms because there's no cameras in courtrooms. right. so, you know, there's extensive evidence. but when we're talking about, like, viral media coverage, where enrique tarrio says something versus, you know, the few reporters who are covering the january 6th cases altogether, that being a written product and having to sort of, you know, digest that in a much different way. so it is just this, this dynamic where i think that they are weighing sort of the information war on a lot of these issues, despite the facts just not being on their side at all. you know, these january 6th cases were very well supported by the evidence, by the law, especially those ones involving violence. and, you know, not only that, in terms of the juries, you had these procedures for getting rid of. so when enrique tarrio says these weren't fair, you had procedures for filtering out people who felt they couldn't be fair. and these cases, you know, were ultimately overseen by judges who oversaw what evidence was allowed to be introduced and gave as fair of a trial,

including, i should say, judges who were appointed by members of by donald trump himself and other republican presidents. >> chris ryan riley, thank you, as always. well, if you're feeling off or dissatisfied, you're not alone. for the first time since gallup began measuring national satisfaction, the fewest number of americans, 44% label themselves as feeling very satisfied with the way things are going in their personal lives. the best americans ever felt about that. back in january 2020. of course, that was right before everything changed. in what felt like an instant, the cataclysmic covid 19 pandemic, altering the course of how just about everyone lived their lives, followed by two contentious presidential elections. errin haines is back with us. also with us. doctor sue varma, board certified psychiatrist at the nyu langone medical center. welcome to both of you. by the way, sue is the author of practical optimism the art, science, and practice of

exceptional well-being. so, doctor, is this surprising to you at all? i mean, does it match what you're seeing? >> absolutely. you know, we saw that there was a lot of sort of optimism right before the pandemic hit. and i'm seeing that a lot of people really haven't recovered from it, in part because of economic uncertainty, political divisiveness. and we do see that that matches with how the economy is doing. going back to 2008, when there was a huge dip and financial crisis, people's moods were also very much affected. so i'm seeing there's also a loneliness crisis. people are have lost a lot of friends and family. with all that is going on in the world and differences of opinions have affected relationships and one's mental health. >> yeah. aaron, so much, i think, of the 2024 election was about how americans felt, right. they thought the costs were too high. the malaise generally, i think opportunities they felt that weren't there. is this poll a warning for president trump, do you think i mean, he doesn't

have to run for reelection, but republicans do now in less than two years. and he did promise to make everything better. >> yes. i mean, i think it's absolutely something that the current president needs to be paying attention to. but no matter who is running for president, this is a poll that dates back to the carter administration. right. and so tracking where the american people are in terms of their satisfaction personally and also with the country, i think it does matter. and it does factor into how people are participating politically. i think doctor varma has it exactly right. we know that the election wasn't just about bacon and eggs, right? it was about how people were feeling. and so when we talk to people and hear that they, you know, their number one issue, for example, might be the economy. i think it's important to ask people, you know, what do you mean by that? to unpack what what people's responses are in polls like this. and i don't know, i mean, i don't know is, is this poll really getting at what the election said about who and where we are as a country? i'm

not so sure. i mean, i'm not a pollster by any means, but i do think these two things are actually intertwined. so especially as we approach the five year anniversary of the pandemic, which i absolutely think was a factor in how people voted in this election, this is a good time to really reflect on this, to unpack this, to focus. you know, i think people tend to focus on the positive. so when you have people saying, you know, maybe they're doing fine or they're satisfied, that's what most people say when you ask them how they're doing, really getting it, what that means, and really asking people what that's about. i think that that is important for us to better understand our politics. >> i think so, too. and doctor joe biden's attorney general, vivek murthy, put out an advisory warning about the epidemic of loneliness in our country. you mentioned loneliness. i also saw an ad for travel in 2025, and there are such things as friend finding tours, something i read a lot about travel had never heard of

before. is it just important to even acknowledge you're not alone? this is what a lot of americans are feeling. >> yes, and i think that unfortunately, there is a lot of stigma around admitting that you're feeling lonely. i think we associate the l word with loneliness equals being a loser, and that's actually not the case. loneliness really just is this subjective quality that maybe you don't feel supported or validated, or that there's a mismatch between the social life that you have and the one that you crave? loneliness is not the same thing as being alone or social isolation. a person can be in their company and love it and enjoy it, and not feel like they're missing anything. or you can be in a room full of people and still feel lonely. and i love the fact that there is more of a push towards meeting friends in person. so there's a lot of social clubs, there's running clubs, but we still need to do a lot. i also see the fact that brick and mortar bookstores are coming back in, in a way, to try to create in-person, real life connections. we see that in

this poll. what was so fascinating to me was that there were a lot of factors that were correlated with having more satisfaction income above 100,000 being over the age of 65, being a woman, being college educated, but one was church going. and whether you're religious or not, we know that these institutions, whether it be a church or whether it be civic engagement or community engagement, they allow us to get connected to people. and the reason why doctor murthy, previous surgeon general put out this advisory is because we know that loneliness has head to toe negative benefits. we know that people who are lonely are more at risk for heart disease, for strokes, everything increases. all of the death by all causes increases by 30%. and by having an active listener in your life, you might be improving your brain health by four years. by having a work best friend increases the chance of you living 140% over the next 20 years. so when i look at it, the quality of your life is determined by the quality of your relationships, and that's not something that we can let go. we absolutely have to think

of it as doctor's orders. you know, i tell people that have something in your calendar every week, once a week in person, even if it's a coffee date, you're walking your dog. micro connections built in layers that we kind of lost during the pandemic, you know, speaking to the barista or your dog walker or your doorman. so making being very conscious and mindful of micro connections with strangers, but also going deep and being vulnerable with good friends. >> well, there's one more thing that robert reich brought up, aaron, and we only have a minute left. but you know him. he worked in both the ford and carter administrations. he wrote this after a stunning electoral loss like this. there's a natural impulse to shut off the news, log off social media and withdraw from public life. understandably, people want to turn inwards. the answer to political defeat is not to disconnect, but to organize. and i wonder the level of exhaustion i hear from democrats all the time. it's real, right? but is it if they if they don't turn that frustration into fuel to organize what happens in 2026?

>> yeah. and even just remembering to continue to seek community. right. you know, whether that translates into action or not, not feeling isolated in the wake of an election, especially an election that didn't go maybe the way that you wanted it to go. i see that seven point gender gap between men and women on this issue about personal satisfaction, including a 15 point drop for women and a 26 point drop for men. we know that that the 40 point drop for republicans versus a 13 point drop for democrats happened in these last five years. how is that going to change with the new administration? i mean, almost certainly you probably are going to see a drop, a bigger drop for democrats. so continuing to find community, i think is going to be very important in terms of how that translates to personal satisfaction, regardless of how people are feeling about the direction of the country. >> errin haines and doctor sue varma, thank you both so much. have a great weekend. that does it for us this hour. our it for us this hour. our coverage continu after last month's massive solar flare

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