saying she doesn't want donald trump's pardon. i'll talk to her. why? and she's going to join me live tomorrow on the katie phang show at 12 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. that does it for me. the reidout with melissa murray is up next. hi, melissa. have a great weekend. >> thanks so much, katie. >> we have a lot to. >> get into in the next hour. >> of the reidout. >> including donald trump fast tracking deportations as. >> ice. >> agents scoop. >> up an. >> american military. >> veteran during one. >> of. >> their raids in newark. >> new jersey. >> also, in what. >> will come as a shock to. >> his supporters. >> in. >> red states prone to natural. >> disasters. >> trump is saying that he just might eliminate fema. >> altogether, which. >> surprise, surprise. >> is spelled out. >> on page. >> 135 of project 2025. but we begin tonight with the. sheer exhaustion. >> of donald trump's first. >> week in office. >> it's only been five. >> days, but. >> so far. >> trump has signed. dozens of

executive orders. >> since inauguration. day on monday. >> he's also issued pardons. >> for over 1500. >> people involved. >> in the. >> january 6th attack on the capitol. >> he commuted. >> the sentences of individuals who are associated with the proud boys, the oath keepers, those. >> who were. >> convicted of seditious. >> conspiracy. >> among other charges. and trump has declared a national emergency at the u.s. southern border and has targeted a constitutional right that automatically grants citizenship to anyone born in the united states. though that action has already provoked court challenges. trump is also threatening federal workers with punishment for concealing any work related to diversity, equity and inclusion. now, of course, the chaos, the cruelty and the exhaustion. well, that's the point. and it continues on through tonight, as critics say that one of trump's earliest decisions actually creates a major risk to our national safety and security. pete hegseth, the army national guard

veteran and fox news host who trump nominated to lead the department of defense, faces a senate confirmation vote later tonight. that vote will occur amid texas own admission that he made a $50,000 payment to the woman who accused him of sexual assault in 2017. the revelation was one of the written answers that hegseth provided to senator elizabeth warren. in response to additional questions that warren posed to hegseth as part of the vetting process. senator warren also had much to say about these troubling allegations involving hegseth drinking habits. >> the kind of drunk that you take work folks to a strip club and so drunk then that you try to get up on stage and dance with the strippers, the kind of drunk that stopped the uber because you're going to vomit drunk. look, i understand there are people who have alcohol problems, but we cannot trust the safety of our country to

someone who has demonstrated repeatedly using very bad judgment with alcohol and doing it in ways that truly have incapacitated him. >> all right. let's bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie sirkin for the latest on the confirmation vote. julie, what is happening right now on the hill? >> well, we're just about two hours away from the vote to confirm pete hegseth, as trump's secretary of state, gets started at 8:57 p.m. and you know that we have two republicans, senators lisa murkowski and susan collins, who echoed some of what elizabeth warren were saying in saying that they do not believe that hegseth has the temperament, the qualifications or the expertise for a job like this. set aside those allegations that we've reported on first this week in that affidavit signed by pete hegseth, sister in law, danielle hegseth. they were concerned about his nomination even before that. his drinking, his alcohol abuse, how he mismanaged funds

at veterans organizations, how he potentially created toxic workplace environments where he worked. these are all things that senators have been hearing from. there have been intermediaries and whistleblowers that have been reaching out to try and share their experiences with pete hegseth, but just susan collins and lisa murkowski voting with presumably all 47 democrats against him, will not do much to change the outcome of tonight's vote if it remains the same as it was yesterday, 51 to 49. he will get through. the question is, are there any other republicans that will join him? i've been talking to in my reporting, and there are a couple that are on the fence, both for national security reasons, concerns, just like senator warren laid out, that he is not the right man to lead the defense department at this current juncture. by the way, the biggest federal agency, but also concerns that he may not have been truthful in his congressional testimony that the transition the trump team now is trying to push him through and has not answered every single question they needed to. two senators, and i think this is very much melissa. still alive ball tonight. >> okay. so a very fluid

situation. that's nbc's julie sirkin on capitol hill. thanks so much for that update, julie. joining me now is pentagon correspondent for the new york times, helene cooper, and retired marine lieutenant colonel amy mcgrath, the founder of the democratic majority action pack. i will start with you, lieutenant colonel mcgrath. if an enlisted man was accused of excessive drinking, sexual abuse and extramarital affairs while in the military, could they be promoted under those circumstances? what are the consequences of engaging in that conduct for an enlisted person? >> well, it would be highly unlikely. >> and i mean. >> this is what it comes down to. and we're not talking about this enough. you know, pete hegseth goes through. he will not have the respect of the admirals and generals that he is going to lead, because they know the ethics of our military. they have risen to the highest ranks, and they know that this man really would not be promoted anywhere near their rank. and

also, it's more than just the sexual misconduct allegations and the alcohol abuse allegations. it's the fact that he is simply unqualified. i mean, think about the fact that this guy has never held a leadership position of any magnitude in any organization greater than the size of your neighborhood. mcdonald's. i mean, that's literal, and that's what we're looking at here. and these senators have to know that they care about our national security. they got to know this man is unqualified. >> well. >> can i. push on that. >> a. >> little bit? it's not simply that this is a question of military ethics. it also may be a question of martial law. it's my understanding that the military code of justice prohibits adultery for those who are enlisted because of concerns about what it does for morale within the enlisted corps. what would it mean for someone who stands at the head of the department of defense to have been credibly accused, and indeed to have admitted to

adultery during his time as a married man? what would that mean for morale within the ranks? >> well, it's a terrible precedent to be to set. and as you just said, not only is it a terrible precedent to set on that notion, but just the, the allegations of sexual assault. i mean, we have a sexual assault problem within the military, and you're going to give the big thumbs up to a guy that is credibly accused of sexual assault. and on top of that, here's a guy who, in his testimony, and we know that he doesn't think very highly of the laws of war, that he doesn't think very highly of the uniform code of military justice. this is a big problem within our military. to have a leader that doesn't abide and doesn't believe by the ethical standards that that shape our military, that is very important not only for our military's morale, but for our standing around the world and our standing of the military institution within america. >> all right. helene, let me turn to you. senate republicans have downplayed a sworn

affidavit from pete hegseth, s former sister in law, who claims that his behavior caused his second wife to fear for her safety. as they note, samantha hegseth, his second wife, isn't speaking out on this. and for that reason, they're less inclined to take these allegations seriously. but it's worth noting that the couple's divorce agreement includes a non-disparagement clause, which prevents samantha hegseth from saying things that could potentially disparage her former spouse. could that perhaps explain her relative silence on this thing? >> hi. thanks for. >> having me. >> i can't speak to the why. >> of why samantha hegseth might not be talking. you do note the non-disparagement clause that's in there. she he is also the father of her children. and so there is there has been some reporting about what she has said privately to the fbi during that investigation. but, you know, as you said, there is a non-disparagement clause. this

is this is such an interesting vote that we're going into tonight. you know, most defense secretary votes are not like this at all. they usually go lloyd austin, who was president biden's secretary of defense, had more than 90 votes, the same thing for the president. trump's two secretaries of defense, jim mattis, had like 98 or something votes, and mark esper had 90. we haven't had anything that was this disputed for this position since chuck hagel. he still won, but he was bruised somewhat in his hearing in 2013 by his own party, by republicans. but by and large, when you're looking at this position, this is something that usually you go into it with a with a huge bipartisan majority. so even if pete hegseth is confirmed tonight, he's going to be entering the job somewhat diminished by the fact that he

will have more than likely lost all of the not have any of the democratic votes to begin with. and he will have lost at least two that we know of right now. republican votes from susan collins and lisa murkowski, and who we don't know yet if there will be one, if there's one more than we need jd vance to break the tie. and if there's but he can't lose more than one more republican vote after that, it's game over for him. >> well, can i ask a little bit more about that, helene, if he is going to emerge from this confirmed but nonetheless bruised by the battle, what does that mean for his effectiveness at the head of the department of defense? >> it's so it's a really good question, melissa, because there's a reason why that the military is supposed to be apolitical. first of all, it's because you need some degree of bipartisan support for the pentagon budget. it's $850

billion a year. it's bigger than the gdp of like most countries out there, it's and you, the military, because of its vastness, but also because of all of the troops who are also supposed to be apolitical. it's supposed to represent it takes pride in the fact that it is apolitical. and so that's going to be that's going to be an issue. there's no question that the military, pete hegseth, becomes defense secretary. the troops will salute him as commander in chief. the our military is trained at this point to follow the, the chain of command and to do what? follow the lawful orders of their civilian chain of command. and he would be at, you know, very close to the top of that chain of command. and so they will follow his orders, provided they are all that they are legal. so that's not the issue. the issue is much more it's a more intangible one of how the what the military is supposed to

represent. >> i see, lieutenant colonel mcgrath, cnn is reporting that samantha hegseth did give a new statement to the fbi about her concerns about her ex-husband's alcohol abuse, and the statement came after his confirmation hearing. but before the committee's vote that got him to this now vote at the senate, the heads of the senate armed services committee were briefed on that statement before the vote, and they nonetheless voted hegseth out of committee anyway. given these developments, would it even matter if we did hear from samantha hegseth, pete hegseth second wife, if she chose to speak out publicly? or is this pretty much in the bag at this point? >> i'm not sure it would matter. i mean, there's a lot out there already about pete hegseth and the people that know him have spoken out to me, though it is unconscionable that the fbi report was apparently not done very well, and it wasn't really

shared with any other senators other than the chair, the chairs of the committee. so to me, this is just such an important position. and let me just underscore one thing. you as secretary of defense, you are in line for the employment of nuclear weapons. this isn't just, you know, a random job here. this is a serious position. and to go to what was the point that was made earlier, it has been bipartisan in the past. why? because senators cared about our national security, and they and administrations appointed somebody who was serious. pete hegseth is not that man. >> so. >> helene. >> can we talk some more about the politics of all of this? in his written answers to senator warren, pete hegseth admitted paying $50,000 to the woman who accused him of sexual assault in 2017. when that payment was made, it was at the height of the metoo movement, and some of the reporting around this suggests that hegseth made that payment because he was concerned

that the sexual assault allegations would negatively impact his career is the fact that he has been nominated for this important position, and that he is likely to be confirmed for it, simply a rebuke of the entire metoo movement and certainly within the military. >> i hadn't thought of it this way, but i think there's a lot of what we're seeing right now with trump's. in trump's first week in power. that's a rebuke from for of the entire movement for social justice that we've witnessed over the past several years. a lot of the anti die stuff that we're seeing is a rebuke of from the republicans, at least of sort of what they call the woke policies that emerged after george floyd was killed by police in minnesota. and particularly you're seeing a lot of this at the pentagon. one of the things i was wondering is whether or not you remember, a couple a few years ago, the pentagon came out and renamed

all of these military bases that were named after confederate generals. so i wonder, you know, with president trump undoing so much of what happened during the biden administration, i'm really wondering if we're going to see these bases going back to their original names. and if, you know, the next time there's a democratic president will be going back and forth and back and forth. and this is sort of, again, the sort of politicized politicizing of the military that parties are supposed to be avoiding. >> all right. may you live in interesting times. helene cooper and amy mcgrath, thank you so much for joining us tonight. up next, trump's draconian immigration raids have already begun, with ice arresting 538 people yesterday alone. and in the process, they reportedly detained some u.s. citizens. it is ugly, and it's only going to is ugly, and it's only going to get worse. more on that. do your dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired?

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okay, maybe not at work. point is at xfinity. we're constantly engineering new ways to get the entertainment you love to you faster and easier than ever. that's what i do. is that love island? >> bonus jackpot party. >> a party in every spin. >> throughout his campaign, donald trump tried very hard to distance himself from project 2025, claiming that he had absolutely nothing to do with the heritage foundation's 900 page blueprint for remaking america. but in just the first week of his second administration, many of trump's actions seemed straight out of the project 2025 playbook, including his aggressive approach to immigration. in the past few days, military troops have been deployed to the southern border. migrants are

being deported on military planes, and arrest operations are ramping up. immigration and customs enforcement told nbc news that they made 538 arrests yesterday. that's nearly double the average number of daily arrests made under the biden administration. these arrests took place all across the country in cities like buffalo, new york, chicago, saint paul, salt lake city, san francisco and denver. while in newark, new jersey, the mayor is blasting an ice raid that took place at a local small business. he says multiple people were detained there, including u.s. citizens. a military veteran was also detained, as well as undocumented individuals, and he claims that the agents did not have a warrant to conduct the raid. and all of this comes as the trump administration warns that it is only just beginning. joining me now to discuss all of this is maria hinojosa, founder of futuro media, and lee gelernt, deputy director of the aclu's immigrant rights project.

lee, what do we make of these raids? how are they different from what we saw under the biden administration? and what is it likely to look like going forward? >> yeah. >> well, right now we're trying to figure out exactly what's happening in new jersey. but we are preparing for these types of raids across the country. and so we are getting information out to all the aclu affiliates, to as many ngos as we can to be monitoring on the ground. are they bringing warrants? are they just arresting people without warrants? are they profiling? are they using excessive force? so we'll be looking at all that. i mean, one of the dangers of people thinking everything is illegal is not everything is going to be illegal. unfortunately, the immigration laws are very harsh. but we want to do is document it, because i genuinely believe the american public didn't know exactly what they were saying when they wanted mass deportations. you know, he painted all immigrants as criminals when they see mothers with children being dragged out of their house. i hope the american public will push back. so we will look for all the legal violations and enforce them. but we also want to make sure that you all are,

and we are documenting it, so the american public can really see what it looks like in practice to say, we're going to kick all these families out, even families with no criminal convictions. >> maria, the scale of this is horrific, but it actually is lower than the raids that occurred when donald trump first took office. so in 2017, there were 675 people detained. when donald trump took office in 2017, does this indicate that most of the discussion around immigration by the incoming or the new trump administration is really performative, that their desire or their appetite to conduct mass deportation is actually not matched by their ability to carry this out right now. >> and that's. >> part of the struggle, melissa. >> is that. >> i don't. >> want. to be a part of his performance. right. i don't want to be a part of the theater that he's trying to create. right. on the other hand, there are raids that are happening. on the other

hand, there are people who are resisting, which is really important. and all of my conversations with grassroots people are we're getting ready, we're prepared. know your rights. you don't have to open the door. you know, they they can say that they're police, immigration agents. they're not police. and so i would say that they are impersonating police, which is unlawful. but you know, what we saw in chicago, they attempted to come into a school in a predominantly black and latino community, back of the yards. and the principal was like, not here. it's not going to happen. so this is this is the interesting part for me that we should be documenting is when people are saying, it's not going to happen, not on my watch. you're not going to cross me. but i'm not so sure if people will actually get upset once they see the mothers and the babies crying because, you know, they they. >> were. >> seen that before. >> we've seen that before. and so, you know, will they draw the line? this is what we're all going to witness and figure out what happens next. >> so lee, one thing we haven't seen is sort of the militaristic

aspect of this. so we have now seen troops deployed to the southern border to stop unlawful crossings there. we have now seen for the first time in recent memory, u.s. military aircraft being used to actually take migrants out of the country to deport them using the force of the military. what do you make of the introduction of the military into what has traditionally been an ice enforcement? >> right? >> i think it's extremely unfortunate and sends a bad signal to everyone, including the military, that this is what your mission is now. but i think one point, that's one point that's important to keep in mind. and i think you're alluding to this is the difference between military support, logistical support, and actually going out there and doing arrests. and so we are concerned that they are going to pass the invoke the insurrection act and say, you, the military, not just do logistical support, but go out there and start making arrests. and that would be a sad day for the united states. so we're looking for

that very closely. we're not happy about them using all the military all over like this in such a large scale. but i think it's a whole other step. if you see the military on our streets starting to enforce the immigration laws with actual arrests. >> and just to put a line under that like it's you can use the military to assist with immigration concerns, but the invocation of the insurrection act would actually be about using the military for peacetime domestic transactions. and that's. >> the problem. that's a critical point, exactly that you just made. >> all right. so, maria, within 24 hours of donald trump's inauguration, 22 states, two cities and a group of nonprofits, including the aclu, filed lawsuits to block one of a dozen immigration related executive orders that donald trump has signed on the ground. how are grassroots organizations responding to these lawsuits? is there going to have to be sort of a complementary role between the grassroots organization and the legal organizations in fighting this and resisting? >> oh, there obviously is, but i wanted to make one point, which

is so to be clear, the border patrol is the largest law enforcement agency in the united states, so they are not lacking for money or resources. they're going to say, we can't, but then they're incompetent and they don't know how to do their job. and more money is spent on immigration detention and deportation than all federal law enforcement agencies combined. more than the atf, more than the fbi. so american citizens, american residents need to understand that throwing the military into this is completely unnecessary. also, it plays into the notion that people who are crossing on the border, which i've been to, are invading. yeah, but they cross and they they literally kneel at the wall to say thank you, i made it. they are no threat to the american public. and we know this because we've talked about it. melissa, this is not a crime problem. this is not there is no crime out of control. they are

saying that it's an immigration problem. and grassroots organizations have been preparing for this. but honestly, when i'm at home and i'm thinking about all of this, i'm like, how are the lawyers? i'm actually worried about lawyers. i'm not even thinking about the journalists. i'm like, how are the lawyers going to handle this? how are the grassroots going to handle this? they're going to do the best that they can. and again, unless they they have a warrant, you don't open the door, you don't give your name, you don't collaborate. right. which even as a journalist to say this is problematic, but this is what's being communicated on the grassroots. so we shall see. what is the eternal struggle in the united states between justice and repression? >> right. i'm going to give you the last word. what are the lawyers worried about? i mean, you have a federal judiciary that has been stocked with movement conservatives. what are your what do you think the chances are for these lawsuits? >> yeah. as a someone who's been doing this for over three decades, i am not going to say the judiciary won't step up. i

still believe that where we make the arguments, we make them well, and we show that something is unlawful, the courts will be there. and so we're going to just keep pushing lawsuits where we think it's illegal. and i'm not going to say we can't win. >> all right. that's maria hinojosa and lee gelernt from the aclu. thank you so much for joining us. coming up next, trump's absolute assault on federal workers in the name of targeting diversity and feeding the maga base. joyce spoke to former director of the office of personnel management. and we are going to bring you that interview just after this break. >> so i got. >> you. >> a little something. >> warming for him. >> tingling for her. >> should we. >> experience the. thrill of bringing. >> them together? say more. >> than i love you. >> say i want.

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repercussions if they do. >> not snitch on their coworkers who work in diversity, equity. >> inclusion and accessibility. >> positions that might have gone unnoticed by government supervisors. dei efforts date back to the civil rights movement to create more diverse and. inclusive workplaces. but on thursday, trump slammed them. >> as. >> absolute nonsense in remarks to the world economic forum. >> my administration has taken action to abolish all discriminatory. diversity, equity and inclusion nonsense. and these are policies that were

absolute nonsense throughout the government and the private sector. with the recent yet somewhat unexpected great supreme court decision just made, america will once again become a merit based country. >> joining me now is rob shriver, senior advisor of democracy forward. he is the immediate past acting director for the office of. personnel management under president biden. i always chuckle a little bit when he says merit based system, given that he was a host of a television show who is now the president, and most of his cabinet are also television show people with no experience and no qualifications, but i digress. let's talk about some of these orders. so we were just talking about before the break. let's just bring it on camera. this is what project 2025 entailed, right? >> it certainly. is joy, the telegraph, that this was what they were going. >> to do. they have an agenda. >> here to. >> drive out. >> from the federal government, the. career experts who. >> americans depend on.

>> to deliver critical services. >> to block the. >> agencies from backfilling. >> them with other career. folks and. instead to surge. >> in political. appointees who are loyal to the president. >> right. and so, you know, there there are civil service protections, theoretically, but they're getting around them in very interesting ways. they're saying, well, we're going to reassign people to maybe jobs that are not so attractive. they're saying, everyone come back to work. maybe people are in kansas or in some other place where it's not practical. maybe they'll quit on their own. and then there's this no snitching policy, essentially saying we're getting rid of die. and if somehow their secret die going on in your department and you don't literally snitch on your coworkers who are accidentally hiring black people or veterans or women, then you're in trouble because obviously they want to fill these positions with their friends, not career civil servants. >> yeah, i think. >> that turning. >> federal employees against. >> one. >> another, particularly during. >> a transition.

>> when there's a lot of change. >> no. >> matter what, is. >> particularly vile. >> and i think. >> we should talk. >> a little. bit about what. these mysterious. die policies. >> are that. >> the. >> new president is talking about. >> when we were working in my former. >> agency on die. >> you know, what we focused on joy is we focused on opening up internship. opportunities instead of just from people in four year schools, people who go to community colleges or trade schools. we wanted to open those opportunities for them. that was one of our die policies. and you know what else we did, joy? we wanted to make sure that those interns got paid because i don't know about you, but when i was going to college or law school. >> i was. >> washing dishes. i was mowing. >> lawns. in the summers. i couldn't afford. >> one of those fancy unpaid internships. well, that's a barrier. >> to. >> folks, right? folks like all over the country. not just people of color, although certainly people of color, but people that live in small towns or rural communities. those were the types of policies we were advancing. >> right. and i think that people on the right have decided

die just means black people having jobs. so black people have jobs. a black person is die. that's what they've decided. but die really is. as you said, it isn't a quota for hiring lots of black people. it is recruitment. it's saying, let's also go to hbcus and see if maybe those students might want some of the things harvard kids get, you know, just the recruitment or saying, these people are veterans who fought in the iraq war. it's difficult for them to find employment. hey, let's recruit among them and see if they might want these jobs. right? die is not a quota of black people. it's getting diverse groups of people of all races and all over the country. >> you're absolutely right. there are longtime. laws on the books regarding the civil service that have prohibited affirmative action quotas. so we've never had that in the federal government. but what you do have to do, like you said, is look at who you're recruiting. look at what those applicant pools look like. you want to make sure that you have america represented in those applicant pools. so they at least then stand a shot to go through and show that they're qualified.

because let me tell you, joy, the people that get through that federal job application process and get hired, they're qualified for those jobs. >> yeah. and they're difficult jobs. what are is there any recourse? you know, i've had a bunch of people ask me this today if people are being cashiered out of their jobs or if they got those letters saying, hey, you were offered a job. you're supposed to start in february. it's now rescinded. i mean, they they have obviously no recourse. they're just not going to get the job. but if people are already in these civil service jobs, do they have any recourse? >> they do. and i really want folks to know that there are people out there and organizations out there fighting for them, like my organization democracy forward, and we have a civil service strong. org website where those federal employees can go and get resources. and it's really important that they know that there are civil service protections in place. they were strengthened under the biden administration. and these actions that this administration has taken, i think there's a lot of them that are legally questionable, and i think they're going to be tested in the courts. >> so there will be lawsuits to try to protect these folks jobs. >> there are already lawsuits,

and there will be more. >> yes. >> rob schreiber, thank you very much. appreciate what you're doing, because we people are going to wake up really surprised when basic functions of government don't work, because instead of a civil servant that knows what they're doing, it's some person that just loves maga that doesn't even know the job. >> how about it's like when we go to grocery stores and we buy meat there. we want to make sure that the person that inspected that meat was hired because they know what they're doing and not because of who they voted for. when we apply for a small business loan, we want that application to be decided based on the merits and not some kind of political donation that you gave. and when our homes and our lives are in danger because of wildfires, we want those federal resources to be deployed based on the need and the science and not the political leanings. >> not who you voted for because, yeah, that's their diversity guy. you voted for trump. you love trump. you get the job. thank you very much. >> thank you joy. >> okay. that was joy's interview with rob schreiber. coming up donald trump continues to subvert the justice system and dole out pardons to his political allies ahead of today's march for life in

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granted clemency to 23 anti-abortion rights activists convicted of violating a federal law that makes it a crime to obstruct entry to reproductive care clinics. the pardons came in advance of trump's remote address at today's anti-abortion march for life in washington, dc. trump in the address called it, quote unquote, a great honor to pardon the people convicted of obstructing access to clinics in michigan, tennessee and washington, d.c, including activist lauren handy, who is serving five years for leading the blockade of a clinic in washington, dc, where, according to prosecutors, they. a nurse sprained her ankle when one person pushed her while entering the clinic, and another woman was accosted by a blockader while she was in the throes of labor. joining me now to discuss all of this is michelle goldberg, columnist for the new york times and an msnbc political analyst, and dean obeidallah, the host of the dean obeidallah show on sirius xm.

michelle, these are people who actually caused real harm. they have done incredible acts of violence. what do you think this raft of pardons, first to the j6 protesters, but now to these anti-abortion protesters. what is this going to mean for the political climate in the united states, and specifically the climate around reproductive rights? >> well. >> i think. >> the message is the same with both the january. >> 6th. protesters and. >> the. >> and these anti-abortion protesters. which is that. >> if you are convicted of breaking. >> the. >> law in the service. >> of a right wing agenda, there. >> is you can. >> expect a measure of impunity. >> and so, you know, there's. >> this 1994 law that was in response to. >> a. >> spate of anti-abortion terrorism. i mean. to some extent. >> i feel like it's no longer applicable. >> you can't expect a trump justice department to enforce. >> it and you can't expect. >> and so, you know, i think the anti-abortion movement is actually going to have some degree of frustration during the trump years because trump is

ambivalent about. >> he both wants to cater. >> to them. but also to keep on board people who are. unhappy with the overturning of roe versus wade. and so that frustration, i think. >> is itself. >> a recipe for more violence, more attacks on clinics directly. and this. >> can only encourage them to think that if that. >> if they do that, there won't be consequences. all right. i want to point your attention to something else that's happened today. we also saw judge amit mehta of the d.c. district court barring oath keepers leader stewart rhodes from entering washington, d.c, without the court's approval. the justice department filed a motion seeking to vacate that order and to dismiss the terms of supervised release and probation because, as they put it, rhodes sentence had been commuted by the president. and to be very clear, this motion was filed by the justice department, not rhodes's lawyer, as is typically the case. and tonight, the new u.s. attorney for the district of the district of columbia, ed

martin, tweeted, quote, j6 judge overreaches and is pushed back by president's lawyers, end quote. dean, what do you make of this? is this further evidence that the doj has effectively become donald trump's personal law firm? >> they have. >> but it's worse. >> they're defending the terrorists who. >> attacked our capitol. stewart rhodes was convicted of. seditious conspiracy. that's literally one step below treason. >> this man. >> himself and the proud boys, who are now. >> free. >> led and planned. >> an attack on. >> our. >> capitol and the service of donald trump. so he pardoned them, and they're continuing to protect them. which is why, i mean, i wrote an article about i want to. >> see a megan's law. >> for. >> the. january 6th defendants convicted of. felonies and above so that they move to your neighborhood. you know that someone convicted of seditious conspiracy has moved in. >> the local. police know people. >> convicted of beating up police officers are in their midst. the same reason to make law to protect people in the community. so you can have a plan working with law enforcement. these are already one of the january 6th people have been pardoned, was was

arrested in florida for gun possession. we will likely see more of them commit more crimes. and rico terrio, the head of proud boys, got out and said, i want retribution. he literally said, it's our turn now. that should that should make people their spine move and be chilled for what is he planning? what are they planning? so we should know where they live. that's all i want. and this is alarming what they're doing here. >> all right, so we should know where they live. what do you make of the judges? so, beryl howell, another judge on the d.c. district court, came out quite forcefully, noting that she thought these pardons were ill advised and that these were serious violations and that they these were the products of either guilty pleas or jury verdicts. and this was a derivation from the rule of law, like, certainly, who's going to stand up for this besides a few judges? >> yeah. judge chutkan write a great opinion when dismissing the case against the people. another federal judge. the same thing. like we're never going to forget this. it's recorded in video. the world will remember it. we can't allow them to erase it. it's off the doj website now. you can't even find the names that people have been convicted. this is the country we live in. the leader of our

nation attempted a coup, was charged with felonies, incited a terrorist attack because that's the january 6th committee, said the central cause of the attack was one person, donald j. trump. and now he's pardoned the people who have waged the attack on our nation. it is surreal. it's like we're in a dream. it's like we're in an experiment of some sort. and people are like, okay, the experiment is over. go back to the real world. but this is, i. >> think, where the lab rats. >> and i think we are. that's it. >> michelle, let me switch gears a little bit. donald trump headed out to california, where he's already met with governor gavin newsom in response to the california fires. this is after he has already floated the idea of divesting fema, the emergency arm of the federal government, of its emergency powers, and instead giving the states responsibility for dealing with the costs and all of the rigmarole of addressing natural disasters. what's this going to look like, and how is it going to play in red states, which often have natural disasters? so i have no idea how this. >> will play. >> in. >> red states. >> because, i mean, theoretically, you could imagine

it being one way. >> that. >> you actually end up. >> balancing the disproportionate. amount that blue. >> states pay into the federal. >> treasury for the. >> defense and rebuilding. and support of red states. >> but that. >> said, i mean, i think that. fundamentally does is that. >> donald trump has never pretended to be. >> a president. >> for all americans. and so. >> much of what he does is about, you know, sawing away at the idea of national solidarity, right? sawing, sawing. away at the union of the states so that, you know, at the same time he talks about dissolving fema. he also. >> wants to use. >> fema to. >> punish enemy. >> or to. yeah, to punish his enemies and reward his friends and to kind of exert political conditions that have nothing to. >> do with fire. >> safety in. order to rebuild los angeles or to help los angeles. and so, yeah, i think it's unlikely that he would actually do that and actually cede that sort of control. i think what you'll see is maybe fema for red states and blue states. >> are on their own very quickly. the president has

already perhaps exceeded his previous administration in terms of his pettiness. so he's removed mark milley's portrait from the pentagon. and he's also taken away the security details from mike pompeo, the former secretary of state, someone who continues to face threats from external forces. this is pettiness. but does it also have real potential consequences? >> of course. >> it has real potential consequences. >> i mean, these are all people in the case of mike pompeo and john bolton, you know, whatever your opinion of them and mine is, you know, really could. >> not. >> be lower. these are people who. >> iran. >> you know, has has made credible threats to assassinate. and, you know, similarly, anthony fauci, this is somebody who is absolutely. bombarded with with death threats and. >> setting the conditions for more stochastic violence. don't go anywhere, michelle and dean. they are going to stick with us because we are going to play our favorite game when we come after favorite game when we come after this. who won the week?

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feels and how you look. learn more at laura geller.com. >> we saw elon musk take kind. >> of a. powerful role. >> did anything. >> about how he wielded his. >> power surprise you? >> do you not need a. katrina level type of response that is rebuilding to make sure it won't happen again? >> you've obviously. >> made a decision. >> to resign. >> are there any lessons that can be. >> learned as you're talking to members of your congregation, what do you tell them about how to stand up for their own moral beliefs, but still find grace in this moment? >> guess what, y'all? we made it to the end of the week, which means it's time to play. who won the week back with me are my guest, michelle goldberg and dean obeidallah. michelle, who won the week? >> i mean, i hate to say it, but i think that the january 6th terrorist insurrectionists won

the week. this is. their country now. >> that is very dark. >> i have a more uplifting one. reverend buddy, the episcopal minister, who said that donald trump's face and jd vance had face the audacity to talk about christian values in a church. and they got really upset. but it was a moment of resistance when we when we desperately need someone to stand up to them. so i was i think she won it and it was great. it was very moving. >> both terrific. i am going to offer my own who won the week and it is in line with dean. so my pick for who won the week is federal district court judge john connor, who is nominated to the district court by noted liberal squish president ronald reagan. this week, judge connor stood on business and temporarily blocked donald trump's executive order to end birthright citizenship. in thursday's hearing, judge connor addressed the trump administration's lawyers, saying this i've been on the bench for over four decades. i can't remember another case where the question presented is as clear as this one. this is a blatantly

unconstitutional order. he then pointedly added, there are other times in world history where we look back and people of goodwill can say, where were the judges? where were the lawyers? what was his point? judges and lawyers can't play politics. they have to answer to the constitution and the rule of law. and sometimes that means standing up for the constitution and the rule of law. so thank you to judge connor, and thank you to michelle goldberg and dean obeidallah. that's tonight's reidout. joy will be back right here on monday. all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on. >> all in. >> is this man with a known history of. excessive drinking? >> the guy you want. >> at the other. >> end of the. phone at 2. >> a.m, in a crisis in. control of the nuclear codes. >> who are we kidding? >> the final arguments over pete hegseth. how many republicans will. >> break with. >> trump's pick?