ng his footsteps. dennis murphy: but she thinks, he would have been proud of her. lovely varughese: i believe, it was pravin's spirit who brought us all this way. he wanted us to know what happened to him, and who did this to him, and we got it. we know who did this to pravin. that's all i needed to know. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm andrea canning. thank you for watching. >> good morning. >> and welcome to this. >> saturday edition of morning joe. weekend. >> it was. a truly busy. >> week as. >> president donald. >> trump took office. >> for.

>> the second time. let's get right to some of the conversations you might have missed. >> some reddit users are now boycotting the social. >> media site x. it's in. >> response to a. >> gesture elon musk made. >> he owns the. platform during. >> donald trump's. >> inauguration on monday. >> some saw the gesture. to be. >> extremely similar. >> to, or exactly. like a. nazi salute, though. >> musk denies the allegation. >> now. several reddit groups dedicated to a wide range. >> of interests, from. >> formula one. >> to board games. >> are proposing banning any. links from x. meanwhile. musk's influence. >> in the second trump. >> administration has been on. >> full display. >> but that doesn't. >> mean the president isn't. >> willing to. >> cozy up. >> with. other billionaires who also want. >> to do business with the federal government. >> even if it. rubs musk the wrong way. >> that's what happened earlier. >> this week, when trump announced an investment.

>> pact with tech. giant openai. >> musk immediately went on. >> social media to undercut. >> the agreement and. >> to attack. >> the company's co-founder, sam altman. as axios. >> notes, it was a striking development. >> to see musk openly questioning a deal. >> that his ally. >> the president. >> had publicly trumpeted. >> and joe. >> i mean, i think that's. >> an interesting. >> exercise lesson for anybody. >> who's. >> you know, getting. >> into the. >> inner circle, it you know. >> power is fungible. >> well, it moves all around. and jonathan amir, it. >> was it was very deliberate. >> i mean, sam. >> altman is a11. >> of elon musk's biggest rivals, if not. >> his biggest. >> rival, especially on ai. there have been stories. after stories written about these two and how musk was going to try to elbow altman out. that obviously didn't happen. and then, you

know, i had. >> actually heard. >> from some reddit. >> users yesterday. >> about what the new york times is reporting on. that several. >> reddit users. >> actually are cutting off links with. >> x. >> because of this motion. that that elon musk said didn't look like a nazi salute, but certainly looked like a nazi salute to a lot of people, not only on reddit, but also across the media landscape. and i would guess. most americans, you know, most americans looking at that again, whether whether they're disturbed. >> they. >> should be disturbed. >> but most americans looking at that, you know, probably would agree with with with reddit users. joe scarborough, reddit user. >> i'm sorry. >> that's the headline here. >> although i think it's the red sox room. >> why aren't. >> they spending more money? >> i didn't. >> i didn't. >> say i was a reddit user. i have. >> sons that in the middle of the game. >> will. >> start grading players and. >> wait. >> wait wait wait. >> the game. >> still going on here?

>> how many? >> and yeah, it's just a. >> steady stream. >> you can guess. >> like we're not. we're not in the. >> nuclear physics section of reddit. >> it's the red sox. >> the crimson tide. yeah, exactly. >> there you go. >> yeah. no, that makes. >> a. >> lot. >> of sense. >> but your point about musk. >> is. >> is a is a good one here. >> and i. >> think we can say that his. >> scorecard he's one. >> for two. >> this week. >> he pushed out vivek ramaswamy. you know ramaswamy had. >> sort of. >> had alienated. >> a lot of the maga base with his christmas. >> day thread. >> we talked. >> about this about he sort of. >> challenged the work ethic of the american worker that alienated the maga base. >> musk and he. also weren't. >> really getting along. musk didn't want. >> to share the power there. >> he's gone. >> musk is working. >> been working. >> from a west wing office this. >> week. >> that that matters. >> i've been told. >> but at the same time. >> jen. >> he did. lose this. >> one. >> at least. >> the sam altman thing. >> and it was striking. >> we talked about this on the show yesterday. >> sam altman. >> standing behind the presidential. >> podium for a few minutes there during.

>> this announcement with. >> trump earlier this week, and musk's continuing to snipe at him from. >> a distance. >> and early. >> this. >> morning. >> altman returned fire. >> so that feud is. >> alive and. >> well right now. >> donald trump. >> seems okay with it. he likes being. >> surrounded by. >> these rich. >> and powerful people. >> he and musk still seem pretty close. >> that's what i've been told. >> but at a. certain point, a certain point. >> that's got to get under. >> his skin. >> and it's. >> also it's. >> got to get under trump's. >> skin that musk. >> that musk. >> because. >> you know. >> well, first of all, i. >> don't know a lot. about ai and but that seems like. >> a. >> big deal. >> maybe it's important. maybe it's going to help people eventually. >> i don't know. it's certainly not going. >> to lower prices, you know. so that's something i would be pointing out if i were on the hill, a democrat on the hill. but like all we're hearing about it, even if it. >> is a. >> worthy deal, is to billionaire corporation, you know. two ceos. who gave who both gave, you know, sam altman gave $1 million to the inaugural. musk gave hundreds of millions of dollars to trump. and what we see is these two guys fighting, you know, having having this this argument over social media about each other and like, how is that good for

trump? how is that helpful? how is that portraying to the american people that like, he is focused on on them. and i think, you know, we'll see how this plays out over the next few weeks. but i don't know about this this whole new look of him. >> with. >> you know, the tech oligarchy behind him being behind him. >> it's a shadow. >> cabinet of oligarchs. >> yeah. >> it's i don't i don't. >> know how that plays out. well, in the, in the long term. and these, you know, you can't rely on these folks to stick with you, to stick with trump when, when it gets tough. it's all very transactional. and that seems fragile. >> yeah. no no question. >> that it's deeply transactional. we all talked about how a. >> clue to power in washington. >> is. >> the seating chart, which for. >> most people. >> is very mundane, like. >> a seating chart. >> but in dc it. >> really matters. and in the. >> inauguration. >> these. >> tech billionaires were all. >> seated ahead of the cabinet. >> there on on the dais. >> and certainly ai is. >> the forefront here. there's a lot. >> of money. >> being spent.

>> around the globe. >> we just heard from davos about. it's like the number one topic of discussion. so certainly the. >> trump administration. >> needs to. >> come in with some sort of policy here. but there's also divides about. >> related to how these tech oligarchs. >> relationship with. >> the maga base, because the. >> maga. >> base wants. >> that done here. >> at home. >> i don't. >> know. >> that elon. >> musk and sam altman, they want they don't want things to be done overseas. >> where it can be cheaper. >> well, again, there's a disconnect between. >> this cabinet. >> of oligarchs, so to speak. >> and what the base actually voted for. >> and so. if you are a. democrat on the. >> hill. >> you've got. >> to be asking. >> donald trump the question. >> remind, remind. >> us. how does. elon musk's seat. >> in the. >> white house affect. >> prices at the grocery store? >> remind us. >> how is. >> he going to. >> keep americans safe? >> so that. >> is kind. >> of the. >> question that should. >> be. >> i think, posed. >> to donald. >> trump, who. >> has made. >> very clear that he. >> wants these people to be at the at the table. >> of power. >> and i don't. >> understand how.

>> that's going. >> to help everyday. >> americans who. >> are living very. >> different lives. >> than those at davos. so i. >> don't know that that's. >> breaking through. >> i don't know how much kind of sussing there is of these oligarchs. >> on fox. news or. >> in kind of social. >> media worlds. >> of everyday trump voters. >> but that's kind of the question, how do. >> you get that message that donald. >> trump isn't working for you? >> he's working for these oligarchs, joe. >> well, i mean, that is. actually that is a battle that's that has been raging. we've seen it raging. steve bannon. of course, talking about the maga base and going head to head in this sort of maga battle with, with elon musk and mika i the. question i have is and there's no evidence that that elon musk is being pushed aside now or any time in the near future. but the

question. >> is, how many. >> distractions will donald trump put up with. before he says enough? let's let's remember that battle. i won't repeat what elon musk called working americans and. >> but he he was. >> just very denigrating to working americans. and the maga base. and so you have that. battle between the. oligarch and the maga base, the people who elected donald trump. and then you have. >> this. >> this. >> this. >> this scene the other night that the new york times is reporting on, and we're seeing the impact on reddit and, and other places again, is that is that going to move poll numbers? >> no, probably not. >> but again, at some point, people. >> that know. >> donald trump, reporters. >> that. >> have been. >> reporting on. >> him for. a decade will. say there are few.

>> things he. >> hates more than then. >> then distractions. >> brought about by bad. press clips from people around him. and i'm just curious how many bad press clips. how many insults to his projects. >> how many. >> distracting actions coming from an oligarch is he going to put up with before he goes, you. >> know. >> what, i'm. >> going. >> to. >> substitute that. >> oligarch for three. other oligarchs. >> who aren't constantly looking to make headlines through shock and awe tactics. that's that's. really the question in the coming months about that relationship. >> and we will have. >> much more of morning. >> joe weekend right after. >> joe weekend right after. >> this break. mom where's my homework? mommy! hey hun - sometimes, you just need a moment. self-care has never been this easy.

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>> conversations. >> house republicans have formed a new subcommittee to look into the events surrounding january 6th. this subcommittee, which will fall under. the judiciary committee's purview, will be chaired by georgia republican congressman barry loudermilk, who spent much of. >> the last congress. >> attempting to discredit the work of the original january 6th committee. loudermilk is known for providing a tour to a group of people the day before the attack on the capitol that included one of the rioters. in a statement, house speaker mike johnson said the committee's purpose was to expose the false. narratives peddled. >> by. >> the politically motivated january 6th select committee and will uncover the full truth that is owed to the american people. joining us now, democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland. he is ranking member of the house judiciary committee. congressman, so good

to see you this morning. we have a lot to get to, but. >> let's. >> just start there with this new. effort to investigate the events surrounding january 6th and its aftermath, including the work of a committee on which you served. what is your response here? what is the purpose of this committee in your estimation? >> well. >> it was a surprise to. >> us. >> when we heard about. >> it last night. >> after all. most of. >> the republicans from swing moderate districts that the gop needs to hang on to want to move away from the horrific politics for them of january 6th. and now. these atrocious pardons of proud boys, oath keepers and other violent extremists. and so they don't want to talk. >> about it anymore. >> and we were amazed that they would open up a whole new channel for revisiting the very clear and uncontested events of january 6th. apparently, donald trump was demanding it of mike johnson, which is why they

created it. so they took barry loudermilk, who essentially had failed in his mission over the last two years, to try to lay a glove on the january 6th bipartisan committee report in the house administration committee. and they relocated him, moving him over to the judiciary committee. i take it that chairman styles of house admin didn't want anything more to do with it. but in any event, look there, we have an 800 page report that was done on a bipartisan basis with more than 1000 interviews. we looked at a million pages of documents, and nobody has successfully contradicted. a single factual statement in the report that was produced by our. >> select committee. >> so they've had a. >> few years. >> to try to come up with something, but nobody believes that antifa did it. nobody believes that the fbi organized it. and so i don't know exactly where they're going. but i would say since they know donald trump well and he's the one who wants

the subcommittee, he should be the first witness there because he has never told anybody his side of the story. and we would love the opportunity to question him. >> seems like an unlikely witness to be called, though, congressman. so you mentioned the pardons. of course, the blanket pardons, 1500 or so issued by donald trump throughout anyone involved with january 6th, including you mentioned the leaders of the proud boys and oath keepers, as well as those convicted of violent crimes, including assaulting police officers. you know, you've you've said before you believe this was undermine the judicial system. tell us more about that. but also your worries that these people, these violent offenders are back on the streets and now know potentially, that if they commit another violent crime, well, the president would have their back. >> well, you. >> got it. they were not pardoned because they were innocent. they were not pardoned because they were without due process. they were pardoned basically because they are guilty and they are unrepentant, and they have proven themselves to be completely loyal foot

soldiers of donald trump and a reserve army of political shock troops who will be there for him to do essentially whatever he wants. it's a very dangerous and unprecedented. situation in american democracy that donald trump has just imposed on everybody. so. >> congressman, on the subject of pardons, we should note that in president biden's final hours in office, he issued a series of them, including to those involved with the january 6th committee that we were just discussing, which includes you. so were you seeking a pardon? what is your reaction to receiving one? >> no. >> i wasn't seeking a pardon. we are covered by the fact that we didn't do anything wrong. there's no criminal offense. we just did our jobs. >> and upheld. >> our oaths of office and defended the democracy. and we were protected, in any event, by the speech and debate clause. however, donald trump was continually saying he was going to prosecute the heads of our committee bennie johnson, bennie thompson and liz cheney. and,

you know, so i don't blame president biden for what he did. but the pardons that took place in the morning on january 20th were pardons of innocent people who were being protected from vindictive prosecutions, political prosecutions being promised by donald trump. the people pardoned in the afternoon were guilty, who had every benefit of due process and who violently assaulted our police officers, bloodying them, hospitalizing them. you know, i spoke yesterday to mrs. sicknick, gladys sicknick, who's the mother of brian sicknick, an officer who was brutally assaulted by people who were pardoned by donald trump. and, you know, it would be very fitting if donald trump would go out to arlington national cemetery to visit the grave of brian sicknick and members of congress who are applauding and

cheering these people who have come back to say that they want revenge and retaliation, go and visit some of the graves of the people who lost their lives on that day, and go and talk to some of the families of officers whose lives have been turned. upside down by that violent assault on our constitutional order. >> ranking member on the house judiciary committee, congressman jamie raskin. congressman, we thank you as always. we'll speak to you again soon. >> you bet. >> our next guest is taking a look at why democrats started losing voters of color, and what the party can do to win them back. congressman ritchie torres is our guest. that's straight ahead on morning joe. >> weekend. >> so i got you a little something. >> warming for him. tingling for her. >> should we. >> experience the. >> thrill of bringing them together? say more. >> than i. >> love you. say i want you with

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initiatives, among them ordering all federal employees to be placed on paid leave. while our next guest has been a long time supporter of marginalized communities, he has. also criticized his own party, particularly on the far left, for. >> its outsized. >> role in. shaping americans perception of democrats priorities. democratic congressman richie. torres of new york joins us now. >> he has an. >> opinion piece in the free. press entitled the rising. democratic coalition fell. now what? thank you for being on, and i'll start there. >> now what? >> well. >> look. >> the ground. >> beneath us may be shifting. class is increasingly replacing race as the most powerful predictor of voting behavior in. >> american politics. >> and by class, i. >> mean. >> educational attainment. you know, there were a few.

congressional districts that saw a greater swing toward donald trump than my congressional district. new york 15 in the bronx. the bronx is one of the most democratic areas in the country. the median level. >> of. >> educational attainment is a high school diploma. >> or less. in 2012. >> president barack obama. won 96%. >> of the. >> vote in the bronx 2024. >> vice president. >> harris only won 74% of more than. >> 20. point swing. >> or take. >> stark county. >> which is. >> almost exclusively latino. >> it has voted. >> for the democratic party since the 19th century. in 2016, hillary clinton won. >> it by. >> more than 60 percentage points. in 2024, donald trump won nearly 60% of the vote. and so for me, the lesson learned from the 2024 election is that voters of color can no longer be treated as a monolith or taken for granted. you know, we as democrats have to hustle for every vote and every voting bloc, and no one and nothing can be taken for granted. >> so i think it's.

>> we could go. >> on for hours looking back at what happened, but i'd like to look forward. and ask you, because you hear a lot. >> of people saying. >> democrats failed to meet people where they are. you got to meet people where they are, and you have. >> to have. >> a resounding message that breaks through. right. great. >> it does. >> it sounds great, right? i want to know how. i want to know what that looks like exactly. especially in this climate of disinformation, in a climate where clearly democrats lost terribly in the worst way ever. and we are sitting here, democrats in a state of, i think, denial. as to how to move forward. >> or. >> maybe a lack of knowledge as to how to move forward. >> so educate us. >> how do you meet people where they are in this climate? what should democrats be focusing on and how should they be doing it?

>> well, look, for me, the democratic party should have a simple mission which. is to lower cost, lower crime rates, make government work for the people rather than for the interest groups. and we have to recognize that working class voters of color are largely on the center, in the center on issues like public safety and border security, and we have to meet them where they are. if we swing the pendulum too far to the left, we risk alienating working class people of color. and working class people of color are no different from most americans. most americans want the basics and affordable cost of living, safe streets, secure borders. and so we should be focused like a laser on delivering the basics and ignore the fashionable nonsense that has taken hold in our politics. >> okay, and when you say swing too far to the left, what do you mean? specifically. >> when the case of the 2024 election it was immigration. you know, as i've said repeatedly, i felt the president did too little, too late to secure the

border. and we paid a heavy price in the 2024 election. for me, both inflation and immigration were the leading causes of democratic defeat in 2024. and in the case of immigration, i felt like the biden administration did make fatal miscalculations that cost us the election. >> congressman. >> good morning. >> great to have you back on the show. i was struck. >> by the. >> term you just used fashionable nonsense. and you get some of that. >> in your piece and you. >> share an anecdote about. >> talking to. >> a white activist. >> who called themselves. >> a police. >> abolitionist. >> saying. >> i'm here to. >> help you. we're going. >> to defund. >> the police. >> we're going to. >> get rid. >> of. >> the cops. and you said, wait, hang. >> on a second. >> can you talk. >> a little bit about that conversation? >> why you believe that's an important. message to for democrats? >> yeah. >> so i spoke to an activist who was advocating for abolishing the police. and i said, let me get this straight. you want to conduct a social experiment on the lowest income communities of color in places like the bronx.

and what happens if that experiment goes badly? what happens if it leads to an outbreak of gun violence and gang violence and youth violence, like you live in a wealthy white neighborhood in an ivory tower, insulated from the consequences of your utopianism, whereas my constituents are poor people of color who have to live. >> with high costs. >> and high crime rates. and we should be speaking to the lived experience of people of color. you know, when you consider some of the most utopian ideas in politics, whether it's abolishing prisons or abolishing the police or abolishing ice. those ideas do not come from working class people from places like the bronx. those ideas typically come from activists and academics who are out of touch with working class people. so, congressman, you spoke about how just now the democrats have lost at least a portion of their base, this idea of the black, brown and white voters together. yet at the same time, we are seeing just now from the new administration memos going out

to federal agencies last night saying to pause, you know, to put on leave anyone who they deem a di hire, which it is being interpreted as the first step towards eliminating those people. so give us, first of all, just those positions. so give us your reaction just to that news. but also how do you then rectify this? how do you square the circle here from more voters leaning towards trump, even as the administration takes these steps? look, i disapprove of the actions of the trump administration. and for me, you know, trump lacks the character to be president of the united states. but i'll speak bluntly. i'm just not aware of a single. i've never had a constituent tell me that his or her highest priority was die. my constituents tell me we're concerned about crime rates, about the cost of living, about housing. we want you to focus on those issues. and so that's where my priority is going to lie. i obviously disapprove of just about everything donald trump has done so far, but we have to focus on the issues that matter to voters. and, for

example, donald trump's decision to pardon, you know, the perpetrators of january 6th who assaulted police officers. that's something that's deeply unpopular and deeply offensive to people across the political spectrum. and that's an issue on which we should be focusing. >> congressman. >> you. >> and i were speaking in the break and you made that comment about die. so going forwards, how do you think your party can position itself. as best as possible to. >> take back the. >> house in the 2026 midterms? is it, as some people have suggested, by making sure that more candidates like yourself from the kind of center center right of the democratic party run for office? >> look, i feel like we should. >> and this is true of every elected official. we should always challenge ourselves to ensure that we're remaining in touch with our constituents. because when you're a washington, dc, you can easily become out of touch. you can easily become insulated. and you know, when deciding what position to take on an issue, we should ask ourselves, you know, what is the position of the american people? like, if this

were a referendum, how would the american people vote on that issue? because i feel like you can you cannot veer too far from the public without risking a public backlash. and on immigration, you know, the pendulum was swung so far to the left that it has led to a public backlash that has made our country more restrictionist, more right wing, more reactionary, not less. >> all right. democratic congressman ritchie torres. >> of new. >> york, thank you very much. his new piece is online now for the free press. >> up next here, former d.c. metropolitan police officer michael fanone, who defended the u.s. capitol on january 6th and nearly lost his life that day. he joins us next with his reaction to president trump's blanket pardon for the rioters, including the man who attacked him. good morning joe. weekend him. good m when thee. weekend is co temperature drops...that. you've got two choices. close your eyes and think warm thoughts.

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will enter a cease fire. >> in the nation's. >> capital. philadelphia and. >> el paso. the palisades. >> from msnbc. >> world headquarters. >> msnbc premium gives you early access and ad free listening to rachel maddow. chart topping series, msnbc original podcasts, exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows. now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> retired d.c. >> metropolitan police. officer michael fanone. >> who you'll remember was brutally. >> attacked at the capitol on january. >> 6th, now has had to file protective orders against the. people who assaulted him. this comes after. president trump pardoned his attackers. it also comes. >> after fanone. >> was told by doj. >> officials there would. >> be no. >> protection for him. >> or. >> his family. >> they've been. >> targets since he testified before the january 6th committee. an officer. fanone

joins us now. >> we should. >> note former president. biden provided. fanone and the other officers who testified a preemptive pardon in anticipation of retaliation. >> from the trump administration. >> fanone is the author. >> of the recent book on. >> the insurrection. >> titled hold. >> the line. >> officer fanone. >> it's great. >> to have you back on the show. just your first reaction. >> to these. >> blanket pardons of. >> many of the. >> people who attacked you. >> that day. i mean, it's outrageous. >> but. >> you know, like mika said earlier in the program, it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. donald trump has been promising these pardons ever since he announced his candidacy from. >> waco, texas. >> you know, for those of you who don't know or remember, that was the scene. >> of a violent. >> confrontation between members. of american. >> extremist groups. and law enforcement in which law. >> enforcement officers were killed. >> and donald. >> trump saw that as a fitting. >> place to.

>> announce his candidacy. >> so i fully expected. >> this to happen. and the american people voted for it. >> so you've got these protective orders. why did you. >> feel compelled. >> to do that? can you talk about. >> some of the. >> threats you. >> felt for you and your family? >> well, first, i. >> i haven't. >> obtained. >> them yet. i'm going through the process. unfortunately. >> it doesn't look like. >> it's going to. >> be as. >> easy as i had initially anticipated. >> that being said. >> listen, once. >> these guys were pardoned. and let's talk about the individuals that that were pardoned. daniel rodriguez, sentenced to more than 12 years in prison after he pled guilty and admitted to using a taser device, applying. it to the base of. >> my skull. >> numerous times while. >> i was being. >> restrained in a crowd. and assaulted. >> albuquerque, cosper head.

>> from tennessee. >> placed me. >> in a headlock. >> pled guilty. this is. >> the rider. >> that if. >> you watch my body. >> worn camera. footage yelled out, i've got one! as he dragged me out into the crowd. >> thomas sibick, who. >> while i was. restrained and being. >> assaulted. >> ripped my. >> badge and my radio. >> from my police vest. >> kyle young, who again. >> while i was. being restrained and assaulted, tried. >> to remove. >> my firearm. >> from its holster as he violently assaulted me. these individuals pled guilty. >> they admitted. >> that they. >> assaulted a uniformed law enforcement officer. >> who was simply. >> doing his. >> job. >> and donald. >> trump chose to. >> pardon these. >> violent criminals. >> they are all out. >> on the street today. >> because of donald trump's actions. >> my family. >> is less safe. we have suffered threats. >> and. >> acts of violence. almost

immediately. >> after my. >> congressional testimony. >> in the select committee. >> hearing. >> in fact. >> i didn't even. >> make. >> it through my testimony before i. received the. >> first threatening. >> phone call. >> my mother has been the victim of swatting incidents. >> she has had bricks. >> thrown at her home in the middle. >> of the night. >> and recently, while she was raking. >> the. >> leaves in her. >> front yard. >> she had. >> an individual pull up in. >> a truck. >> and throw a bag of. >> on her. >> this is the type. of conduct and behavior that. >> we've experienced for four. >> years. >> and quite frankly, law. enforcement has been. >> feckless in. >> its attempts to. >> protect us and. prevent these types of crimes from occurring. >> all of what you. >> just laid out is disgusting. >> and of. >> course. the crime for which.

>> you're receiving. >> all of. >> this is. >> for defending. >> the. >> united states capitol. >> during an assault. >> during a riot. >> for doing your job as. >> a police officer. many of these people who love to talk about. >> and have bumper. stickers on their cars. >> about backing the. >> blue attacked you. >> and i don't want. >> to walk you through the worst day of your life. >> i assume it. >> was, but you went into cardiac arrest. you've talked openly about thinking about your kids, assuming that it was over, that this was the end. how close did you think that day. >> you were to dying, michael? >> i mean. >> i certainly thought that. was the inevitable outcome. but i'll be. >> honest. >> with you. >> january 6th. >> 2021 was not the worst. >> day of my life. >> that, you know. >> i maybe on january 6th, 2021. >> i thought it was. but you know, these past four years, th. >> threshold for. >> the. worst day. >> of my. >> life has changed

dramatically. >> you know. >> having your mother. >> call you. >> and tell you. >> that someone pulled up in a pickup truck. >> and threw it on her, and. >> knowing that it was. >> because of. >> the things that i've. >> said and. my conduct. >> on january 6th and. >> simply doing. >> my job was. >> probably one of the. >> most painful calls that i've ever received in my life. >> again. because of. these pardons. >> my family is. threatened and my family is less safe. >> so going. >> forward now, as. >> you said, the people who attacked you that. >> day. >> are out there. >> free, many of them. >> everybody's out at this point. >> what do you anticipate. the next days, weeks, months. >> to. >> look like for you and your family? well, i fully expect. to experience. >> a violence. >> at the hands.

>> of some of these. >> individuals. >> whether it's the. >> ones that directly assaulted. >> me or others. >> who see. >> me as. >> a spokesperson for. >> accountability for january 6th. >> i certainly. >> feel as though i have. >> a target. >> on my. >> back and i have. >> a target. >> there's a target. >> on the back of my family. >> members. >> and not. >> just from these violent. >> criminals. >> but from the. government itself. from donald trump's. government. well. >> in this. >> perverse logic. >> that we're seeing now. >> you've been made. >> a villain by. >> this. >> group of people. >> and we just want to say publicly what we've. >> said all along. >> that you. and the other officers who defended the capitol that day perhaps. >> saved the country. >> you are the heroes, and. >> we are so grateful for your service. >> we hope. >> to talk to you again. often. retired d.c. >> metropolitan police officer michael fanone. >> keep us posted on everything. >> great to. >> see you, sir.

>> up next, comedian roy wood jr joins us to talk about his new stand up special morning show stand up special morning show weekend. we'll be right back. [birds chirping] [dog growls] ♪♪ ♪ who knows what tomorrow ♪ ♪ will bring ♪ [dog barking] ♪ maybe sunshine, ♪ [dog whining] ♪ and maybe rain ♪ ♪ but as for me ♪ ♪ i'll wait and see ♪ [knock at door] ♪ and maybe it'll bring my love to me ♪ ♪ who knows ♪ ♪ who knows ♪ ♪♪ well, we are for imprint. certainty matters. like the certainty of finding the perfect promo gear for gifting at for

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plan to enter the capitol. it just wasn't. stuart was. >> becoming increasingly unstable. >> people are gravitating. to him. >> like a son. i bet everything on him being locked away forever. >> i don't know if we're going to make it. we've lost connection. we ain't been right since covid, man. we don't talk, we don't interact. we don't chit chat no more. we don't. >> we don't. >> even like. >> talking on the phone. >> we get mad if. >> the phone. >> ring the phone. >> that was. >> invented for talking. >> you get mad. >> oh hell no. you got. >> to. >> text me first. don't just. >> be. >> calling me. >> give me a sneak preview. >> of the conversation. >> and then i will decide if this. >> conversation requires a human connection. >> you can't live like that, man. >> so that's. >> just one of. yeah, just one of the many funny and very true lines from comedian roy wood

jr's new stand up special. it's on hulu and has the title lonely flowers. as the title hints, the stand up focuses on the implications of the growing solitude of americans. and as the new york times put it, lonely flowers is not directly about trump, but it's the first major special since the election to capture the fractious mood in the culture that gave him a victory. and we're happy to say roy wood jr joins us on set right now. roy, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> thank you for having me over here by myself. yeah. >> well we're emphasizing the lonely element of the lonely theme. the lonely theme is on full display right here. so talk to us, though, about where why you were thinking about this, where this came from. >> it started coming from like post covid, where you noticed that. >> there was a level. >> of aggression. and this is going to sound. >> like i'm being funny. >> but i'm serious. >> okay. >> i watch a lot of fast food fight. >> videos. >> and i started noticing that the employees were punching us first. and that was that. you? you watched some of them burger king fight videos, you know, like there used to be. there

was. >> a. >> sense of aggression within public confrontations between employees and customers, where it used to be the customer. that would be the one to over correct. the customer would initiate the contact. and i started noticing a trend. >> well, why are the employees? >> well, they're overworked, they're underpaid, they're underappreciated. >> the lady. >> who took the hammer to the windshield. yeah. exactly that. >> so you started seeing employees snapping the same as the customer. so that's a societal thing. that's not bad service. so it's just one of those little threads. you start pulling that and pulling that and you notice, well, there's no customer service in the store. there's no cashier to talk to. for a lot of people, that was your friend. and that sounds wild, but that was your friend. i was a waiter for two years when i was in college at golden corral, and there were a number of people who came in there and ate alone, and i know it was because we gave them conversation. now your server doesn't have time to chit chat, so i just think that that ripple effect started out there, and i just thought it would be something interesting to build an entire comedy set around. >> also, your. >> orders are on an ipad that the server puts in. doesn't even talk to the kitchen.

>> yeah, like scan a qr, get your own menu. >> yeah. >> yes. everything's locked up in the store. >> oh my. >> god, roy, you and i have worked on causes, but this goes across racial, ethnic, gender lines. everybody is now isolated. i mean, i ran into you in an airport. you can't even go to the bar or magazine or something. and now you're dealing with a machine. yeah, yeah. i mean, and i think this is what you're talking about in the show. >> exactly. but then you started, i started looking at society and then just want to start looking at ourselves and the idea like, i'm 46. and so you have friends that rotate in and out, life changes. how do you even make new friends? because most people you consider your good friends, they're just people you was broke with in your 20s, so you don't have that same foundation. >> so you. mentioned things being locked up. let's take a look at a clip. here he is. >> the locked up everything. you go in these stores now, all these pharmacies and stuff, everything locked up in a damn lockbox. and then they mad at us because we need the key.

>> you mad. >> at me for? >> and you got to be all humble. when you come up to him, you find one that's got a key. you gotta come up to him all humbly. excuse me, ma'am. good evening. >> my name is roy. >> would it be too much trouble if you could come unlock the michaelites for me? i just would really love some. >> mike. >> and ikes. >> okay. you gotta. >> hold your hand to. when you find an employee in the store, you gotta hold their hand. we go together. we are a couple right now. if you don't hold a hand, somebody will steal your employee. these other customers don't give a damn. you done? done. two laps around the store trying to find an employee. and then here comes some new person coming up to you and your girl. excuse me. could you help me? she good though. watch out. she good. she going to unlock my mike and ikes and she'll tend to whatever the hell you need. let's go baby, he don't know i

love you. stop looking at other customers when you bother me. >> oh my god, jonathan lamar, that literally has happened to me so many times. >> it takes so long to. >> find the employee and then. >> you can't like. >> what are you. i can't remember what i was asking for. >> there's a cvs near me that i've been in so many times. i have my routine. i knew where everything was and i'd be out in three minutes. but now things are locked up. it takes 20 minutes. and it's that sense of frustration not only is alienating everyone involved, but then that person says, you know what, next time i'm just going to order it online, reducing the social interaction that much further. >> correct. and then you have walgreens coming out and going, oops, our bad. that probably wasn't the best business model. well, okay, but are you going to hire more people still to cover for that? because i still think that the retail experience is part of the social experience in this country and how we acclimate it to one another. and i think automation and the growth of all of the big boxes really changed that. and also doordash and all of that stuff too. the idea just going to get carryout, just the chit chat while you're waiting on them to get your order wrong. >> so when people see your show, leave it. if you do it live, but

certainly see it on the on the air. now that you have it out there, what do you hope they walk away with? what is there any message you're trying to give, or are you just revealing? >> no, the message near the end is to seek connection. you have to actively go out and do that. you have to figure out ways to make don't fall into the habits of isolation just because it feels easy. go join the fantasy football league, go to the book club. go do whatever you need to do to be around other people short of drug use. >> yes. >> do something to seek connection. my mother is 76 years old. every time i go home to birmingham, it's a new friend on the couch. i'm like, how are you finding who are these people? but she just keep them churning. so if she can do it, i know i can do it too, and everybody else can. >> i love it. what an incredibly important message. the new stand up special lonely flowers is streaming now on hulu. >> roy wood jr. >> thank you and thank you for giving us. a reason to smile this morning. >> thank you. >> nice to have you on.

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january the 25th, and we're following breaking news this

morning out of the middle east. just under three hours ago, four hostages held by hamas were released. this is the second such release under the current cease fire deal, which began last sunday. the released hostages are all female soldiers karina rivera, daniella gilboa, naama levy and lira alba. they were abducted from israel's nahal oz military base near the border with gaza, where they were serving at the time of the hamas attack. highly graphic video footage of all four women being abducted has been widely circulated on social media. in a highly choreographed show of force. partial video of which you are watching now. militants marched the hostages across the stage in gaza city before handing them over to the red cross. the red cross then handed them over to israeli forces in delegated areas elsewhere in gaza, and those idf forces took them across the border to the idf base. they will be taken to a hospital in petah tikva, which is outside of tel aviv. in exchange, israel is set to

release 200 palestinian prisoners today in total, as part of the phase one of the ceasefire, hamas is releasing 33 hostages out of the roughly 90 to 100 that are still believed to be held, although dozens of that number are believed to be dead. israel is releasing a total of 737 palestinian prisoners, in addition to 1167 gaza residents who were arrested during the war. we've also seen a significant increase in the amount of daily humanitarian aid allowed into gaza under the ceasefire agreement that calls for 600 trucks per day. also, israel will gradually withdraw from the populated areas of gaza, allowing gazan civilians to return. however, since the hostage release this morning, israel has accused hamas of breaking promises in the deal, claiming that all female civilians were supposed to be released before female soldiers. israel has identified 29 year

old arbel yahud, stating that until she is released, israel will not allow palestinian civilians to return to northern gaza. joining me now is nbc news international correspondent ralph sanchez. he's outside the hospital in petah tikva, where the released hostages are on their way. ralph, good afternoon to you. in israel, what's the latest on their release? and tell me what you know about this new issue regarding this 29 year old woman. yehud. tell me about that. >> well, ali. good morning. >> we are. >> at. >> the. beilinson schneider complex. we're out here in. >> the parking lot, and. >> i can tell you a crowd has gathered and they have their eyes trained on the skies. because potentially any minute now, we were expecting to hear the roar of the rotor. blades as israeli military helicopters begin to bring those four hostages to the helipad behind me. now, they were released a. little less than three hours ago in a pretty theatrical production choreographed by

hamas, down to the very last detail, hamas erected a stage with propaganda slogans on. >> the. >> back of it, and these four female soldiers were marched onto it. they were wearing sort of costume uniforms, if you will, not their actual israeli military uniforms. but they were smiling. they were waving. they appeared to be in good health as they were handed by hamas to the international committee of the red cross, and then handed over to israeli forces and brought out of the gaza strip. we were actually with the family of one of these soldiers. her name is larry alberg. she was 18 years old when she was taken captive. she's 19 now, and we sat with them as they smoked, as they nervously checked their cell phones, and as they were glued to al jazeera's live television coverage. and then an enormous cheer and a lot of tears as they finally saw their loved one live album released by hamas and handed over into the custody of the red cross. so ali, in that

sense, so far, so good. those four female hostages have come out. israel says it will honor its side of the deal to release some 200 palestinian prisoners. some of them are going to be deported to third countries, rather than being sent back to the occupied west bank or gaza, potentially being sent to turkey. but as you said, there is now a cloud and a lot of questions hanging over the future of this cease fire deal. and it all hinges around one hostage, 29 year old arbel yahud. now israel is saying she is a female civilian. she should have come out today. and they consider the fact that she was not released to be a violation of the cease fire agreement. in response, prime minister benjamin netanyahu's office is saying they will not allow palestinian civilians to return to the north of the gaza strip until the deal to release arbel

yahud is finalized. we do not know at this point what has become of this 29 year old woman. she was kidnaped from kibbutz nir oz along with her boyfriend. her brother was actually killed on october 7th. we do know that at one point she was in the captivity of islamic jihad. it's a smaller militant group alongside hamas inside of the gaza strip. other islamic jihad hostages did come out in the previous ceasefire deal back in november of 2023. it remains deeply unclear why she has not been freed yet, but prime minister benjamin netanyahu says he has informed the trump administration they are not going to allow palestinian civilians to return to the north until they get, in their words, satisfaction on this issue. but it is very likely, ali, that hamas will see this as a major violation of the deal. one of its priorities is to reassert itself in northern gaza and to allow displaced palestinian civilians to finally return to what, in many cases, are the ruins of their homes up here. so

while there is good news right now, there is a lot of questions about the future of this ceasefire. >> it will stay close to you in petah tikva, israel, as the hostages are released. and of course, we'll be monitoring the release of the prisoners into the occupied territories. raf sanchez for us in petah tikva, israel. joining me now is the independent journalist noga tarnopolsky. she's also outside the hospital in petah tikva, where the released hostages are heading. noga i in all the years we've been talking, i try to not get you to speculate, but leading off of what ralph said, what do you think is going on here? where they've released these four women soldiers? they didn't release this woman. civilian. arbel yahud, do you have any sense of what this means and what effect it's going to have on the ceasefire, if any? >> it's just. >> we don't. >> yet fully know what effect. >> it. will have. >> but this is part. >> of a kind of. >> pull and tug of. >> jihad is. >> being held still. >> by islamic jihad. they've put out a statement saying that they. consider her a soldier,

though she was a civilian, and she was taken from the music festival. >> and as a result. >> islamic jihad wants to force israel to consider. >> her a soldier. >> and thus to release. 50 convicted. terrorists to. >> get her back. if she's just. >> a civilian. >> then israel releases. >> just 30 and much lighter. >> they can even be. >> detainees who were. >> never charged. >> so this. >> is. >> part of islamic. jihad trying. >> to show. >> the united states trying. >> to show hamas that it. >> still. >> has power, that. >> it still. >> has leverage, and that it can still manipulate this situation as hamas has. we don't know what the. >> reaction will be. >> netanyahu's announcement that they're not going to allow gazans back is a pretty big blow and. could have an. >> impact. >> because for hamas, certainly. it's very, very important to be able to show that they are allowing gazan civilians. to head back to where their. homes once were. >> so this is important largely because in the crowd that you're

in, there remains. and i'm looking at pictures of a rotor on a on a helicopter there. so i'm not quite sure whether that's arriving or is that in reem. okay. that's still so that the helicopter is not to you yet. >> this is. >> a military base. >> that's a military base. that's right. so that's where the idf then took those soldiers after they were handed over from the red cross. and from there they will go to you. >> ironically, that's the base where they served and that's. the base they. >> were kidnaped from. >> oh, interesting. okay. so that will be quite something for these for young women to go there. and there's another story there for another time, noga, about the women who served in these observation posts and what they had seen. and the israeli army is investigating all of that. but let me ask you something. you're in a crowd of people who are very anxious to see these, these hostages. there's been more euphoria than not, but there's a mixture of euphoria and sadness in israel since the beginning of this ceasefire. obviously, if what has happened this morning endangers this ceasefire, that's going to affect the mood in

israel a great deal, because they want those those living hostages back fast. >> that's right. it will and it will also impact significantly the amount of. >> public pressure that netanyahu. >> is facing. >> he, you know, is very unpopular in israel. he's been facing significant public pressure here. but what really tipped the scales was, you know, new president donald trump sending his envoy here two. weeks ago. >> and basically saying to. >> netanyahu, you don't have a choice. you've got to get this deal done or get this deal done. and the israeli hostages families have been quite astute about making ties, keeping up relations with trump's team, with the. mideast envoy, steve witkoff in particular. >> they were there at his inauguration, and their whole plan is to make sure that donald trump feels that he will get the credit, that he will become more popular if the ceasefire and hostage exchange deal holds, and

they're planning on using the that impact that they now have with the trump team to try and make sure that netanyahu is pressured not only by them here in israel, but from the white house as well. >> is there speculation at this point that this matter this morning will be resolved in a, in a in a manner that can be resolved? or is there real concern that not releasing arbell yahud is could throw this off. there is. >> real concern. i mean the general my general understanding is that both israel and hamas have a significant interest in seeing this first phase of the ceasefire agreement hold throughout. but of course, an organization like islamic jihad is a bit of a loose cannon there. they certainly want to put pressure on all the parties. so we see these hiccups. netanyahu saying that no gazan will be able to return home is a

very major step. this is really a hugely important part of this deal. so we still have to see if certainly qatar and egypt, the two countries that have been handling the kind of nitty gritty of this mediation. if they feel that netanyahu has overstepped or if this will persuade, as the israelis hope, if it might persuade islamic jihad to release inbar yehud outside of the framework of weekly releases. in other words, what the israelis are saying is they could let her go tomorrow and we'll let all the gazans through, but we're not going to let. >> anyone through. >> until she's freed. she's a civilian. they're still pressing that she is military and that they're going to just release her next week. so that's the kind of power struggle we're seeing. but no one at this point is saying we're busting the deal. this is over. >> and one quick question for you, noga, before i leave you, because we're going to be coming back to you on the left of your screen. by the way, moments ago, you did see that helicopter in the sky. it is. and that's the

helicopter that's on their way to petah tikva. >> behind me, you see. the helipad where everyone is waiting to see it. land is going to be a matter of moments now. >> all right, we may stick with you for that. because. because that will be a moment to watch that helicopter land with those hostages. noga, let me ask you about the situation around you. where are you? why is there a hospital in petah tikva? why? why is that where these this helicopter is going? >> this is basically a tel aviv hospital. this is a very major hospital center. it's on the border. >> with tel aviv. >> it's a huge. hospital campus. >> it's on a. >> it's like at a border community. if you're a bostonian, this is like on the border with newton. so it's basically one of the largest hospitals. the way this has been set up is that hospitals down south, in particular beer-sheva soroka hospital, were set up to receive the hostages if they were returned in difficult

medical conditions or critical medical condition. this hospital here, beilinson hospital, the entire campus here, basically. kind of apartments have been set up for the freed hostages and their families, and this is where they can remain in a sort of something between hospitalization and re-immersion into real life for however long they need to. i think it's worth mentioning, ali, that the hostages who returned a week ago on sunday have not yet been released from hospital, and i think it's an indication that their health may not be as robust as people initially hoped when they saw them emerge out of gaza last week. >> noga, i'm going to ask you to stick with me as we expect that helicopter to land momentarily in petah tikva, israel. i want to bring in steven cook. he's a senior fellow on the middle east and africa studies at the council on foreign relations. he's a columnist with foreign policy magazine. and by the way, to both of you, i may need to

interrupt you, and we're probably going to keep as soon as we get that shot of that helicopter, we're going to go right back to that, and we're going to stay on top of where that helicopter is going. steven, in your latest piece, you get right to a the big question that everybody's got right now. we're seeing what's happening in the moment. i think everybody in the world is happy if there's no more fighting in gaza. hostages are being released. palestinian prisoners, some of whom have been unjustly arrested largely for the purposes of hostage swaps, are going to be able to be released. but the real big question is what happens next? and you write israelis and palestinians both both lost their futures as the war smoke clears, both societies are moving backward. end quote. tell me about that. >> well. >> it seems clear. >> that hamas's. >> attack on. israel on. >> october 7th. >> the tangible result of that. >> is to. >> set back. >> the palestinian cause for. >> the establishment of a palestinian state. >> there are now. >> more israelis who are opposed

to a two state solution. >> than there were. >> on. october 6th. it's something. >> that israelis. >> are deeply. >> opposed to at. >> the moment. at least two thirds of them. and the war's. inconclusive outcome. >> with. >> hamas still in power, is only going. >> to harden. >> the israeli public opinion. you can say that the palestinians have a right to a state, which they do. but the israelis, given the. asymmetry of power, have. >> every. >> every, all the power to block that. >> from. >> happening as far as israel. >> is concerned. over the course. >> of the last 15 years, israel has made great strides towards its global integration, economic development, and all of those things will remain. but there is a pall that has been cast over israel as a result of this war, and that is the idea that. >> it can. >> normalize its relations around the world with its neighbors. go forward. >> the international. >> the delegitimization of israel over. >> the course of.

>> the. >> last 15 months seems to have set. israel back to the dark. >> days of the 1970s, when the idea. >> was institutionalized in the. >> un that zionism was a form of racism. so these are real obstacles that both israelis and palestinians are going to have to overcome. and it's hard to imagine how they will, at least. >> in in. >> a generation. >> noga. >> let's talk about that for a second, because you and i were talking for a very, very long time before october 7th about the discontent in israeli society, about concerns even before october 7th, that israeli society under netanyahu and a far right government was, in fact, moving backwards. to steven's point right now, what's your sense of the national trauma in israel and how that contributes to the idea that long term sustainable peace requires, logically, a two state solution? but increasingly, populations on the palestinian side and the israeli side do not support that outcome. >> i'm not sure that's true in among palestinians. actually, the polling hasn't been that clear. what i can tell you is

that prime minister netanyahu's government is using this period of the cease fire and all of the kind of drama and emotions to push through the same authoritarian, anti-democratic laws that they were trying to push through into in 2023. this time, they're not making big announcements. it's happening behind the scenes. but even two days ago, the government passed a law basically taking control of the of the funds owned by the israel bar association. they have refused to allow the new chief justice of the court to be seated. the government is moving pretty quickly to consolidate power. and what that means, you know, when biden was still president, when the biden administration, the united states had a lot to say about netanyahu's authoritarian moves, it's unlikely that president trump will feel that strongly about israeli democracy. and so what we're seeing is a growing

situation in which, however, israelis may feel about a two state solution, there is an extremist right wing government consolidating its hold on power, and it will never allow, you know, netanyahu said, as long as he's alive, there won't be a palestinian state. that's the kind of government that is now consolidating its hold on power here in israel. >> and, steven, to the extent that america being at the table could in some environments help you have a un appointee to the us, appointee to the un who believes or says she concurs with the right wing extremists in israel about about the fact that the palestinian territory should not be palestinian territories. you have mike huckabee who says there are no such thing as the palestinians, so they're not going to be putting the squeeze on the israelis to sort this out. >> no, i think that it's clear that the trump administration, at least the president's senior appointees, are ones who have expressed very significant. support for the settler enterprise. all that being said,

president trump, who fancies himself as a master dealmaker, may very well want to go back to this issue, as he did in his first administration, and lay. >> out a plan. >> for what he calls the deal of the century. now, when he did that, the palestinians rejected it out of hand because. >> it was. >> so heavily favored towards the israelis, essentially laying out an archipelago of semi-sovereign population centers and calling it a palestinian state. but even as elise stefanik, who is slated to be the us permanent representative to the un and governor mike huckabee, have referred to the occupied territories as part of israel, it does not necessarily mean that the president will not go, for, as i said before, the deal of the century. i think the critical issue here, however, is, is that as a result of october 7th, there are more and more israelis who. >> don't will. >> not countenance a two state solution. it may very well be

that prime minister netanyahu and his government are consolidating power in the way that noga suggests, but one area in where this is perfectly consistent, the government is perfectly consistent with at least two thirds of the israeli public, is opposition to a two state solution, one that really doesn't exist anywhere other than in the minds of policy makers. the settlement process has gone on way too long. it's hard to imagine how at this point, israel would evacuate large number of settlers to make it a contiguous palestinian state. possible, at least in the west bank. >> assuming. and by the way, we're going to keep eyes on petah tikva. this is where noga is. this is where ralph sanchez is. this is where the medical complex is. and you're looking right at the helipad where at some point, hopefully in the next few minutes, you will see that helicopter with the four female soldiers who have been released by hamas landing. they will then be be put into the hospital where they will get, as noga says, treatment and sort of

reentry into society. but noga does make the point that the hostages who were released last sunday have not been released. so we don't know whether that's about their their condition. these are the hostages, the four hostages who have been released this morning. there is an issue in which israel felt that there should have been one person they describe as a civilian, arbel yahud. she's 29 years old. hamas or islamic jihad, who holds her, has said that she is actually a soldier. and the issue here is the ratio of palestinians released versus israelis. if the person being released is a soldier versus a civilian. so there's a there's a bit of a knot in the works right now. no. guy. i do have to ask you to steven's point, let's say we got past phase one. the living hostages are released. let's say we got to phase two, which look, there's questions as to whether we'll even get there. and then beyond there is a question on the palestinian side about governance. who does it? what does it look like and how do they get there? that is an almost seemingly intractable

issue. what's your sense of where they're moving on that? >> that's a big open question. i don't think any of the interested parties here will be willing to see her return to power in gaza and the palestinian authority, which is the internationally recognized palestinian government, has made it clear that they do feel prepared to return to power in gaza, where they ruled. of course, hamas's coup d'état in 2007, just two days ago, we heard that the palestinian authority is going to be in charge of the rafah border crossing. that's the crossing between gaza and egypt, egypt and hamas. everyone has demanded that israel cannot be in charge of a border that doesn't touch on its own territory. so we may see a little bit of softening there in that announcement. in the israeli position, israel said, it's not true that the

people in charge of that border crossing will be, quote, unaffiliated gazans, which is not very convincing. but i do want to add one thing to what steven cook just said. it's not just policymakers who talk about the two. gulf states, saudi arabia, the united arab emirates, egypt, all of the countries who are able to and willing to fund the rebuilding of gaza, all of them have set as an unmovable demand that there has to be a pathway towards palestinian statehood. and i think that this israeli government has refused to consider that possibility flat out, in order to move to stage two and maybe even stage three, which is the start of rebuilding, is going to have to address this subject. and it's a big one because gaza has been, by and large, destroyed. we're hearing 60% of all structures there, and israel doesn't want to have to undertake it itself. so they're going to have to figure out who they will let do

that, what the individuals or those entities conditions are. >> all right. well, i'm going to ask my control room to stay on this shot until we see the helicopter with those four hostages land at petah tikva, israel. however, i've got ralph sanchez standing by on the ground in that shot. where you're looking at at petah tikva, we're talking to noga tarnopolsky there. steven cook is here stateside with me, and i want to bring daniele hamamdjian in. she is at hostage square in tel aviv, where people have been gathering. they gathered last sunday and they're there as well. danielle, we do have this wrinkle in which there were supposed to be, according to israel, a civilian released islamic jihad who holds this prisoner. this hostage says that she's not a civilian. she's a soldier. the math on that is that if she's a soldier, then 50 palestinians get released. if she's a civilian, then 30 palestinians get released. and there's a difference in the type of people who get released based on whether she's a civilian or a soldier. what are you hearing? because i know you sort of got

your ear to the ground on in the occupied territories. what are you hearing about this? >> well. >> we do know, and this was. >> confirmed to. >> us a few moments ago, that. >> some of. >> the prisoners. have already started to be released in ramallah. and you're right. >> the. >> ratio is for every israeli hostage released civilian. >> 30 palestinian prisoners. >> will be released. if it's a soldier, it is 50. but among the 50, 30 will. >> be serving. >> long, if not life sentences. >> which is what we're. >> expecting today. >> 121 men. serving life. >> sentences. >> among the 200. they will be released. some will be released. >> into the west bank, some will. >> be released. >> into gaza, but many dozens will be released into a third country that qatar. turkey have floated. >> around, but. >> possibly egypt as well. and you talked about this. wrinkle now. well, you know, what's. the practical implications of this. is that. hundreds of thousands

of gazans. >> who. >> were expecting to go back. >> to. >> northern gaza today are not able to, at least not at this very moment. this is according to the prime minister's office. it's getting quite loud here at the hostage square. as you can imagine, there's a celebratory atmosphere. >> it's quite. >> festive, given the images that the that came out of gaza this morning. but so we are waiting to get the final list of prisoners released. and, and we are expecting this list momentarily. but as i say, unlike the scenes we saw last weekend where. >> 90 women and children. >> were released. >> into gaza, some will be released again today into the west bank, but. many dozens over 70. >> will be released. >> to will. >> be deported to. >> a third. >> country because they. >> are serving life sentences. >> and israel has decided they will not be living either in gaza or the west bank. >> and danielle, just to clarify, have those prisoners been released in ramallah yet, or are they on their way to ramallah?

>> i believe some are on their way to ramallah. and i have to. >> say. for viewers who are just tuning in today. >> and if. >> you're looking at the images coming out of gaza city this morning, i have to say, you know, one thing that struck me was how choreographed it all seemed. it was a bit more chaotic last week, the handover. but to see so many hamas fighters gathered in gaza city, despite israeli claims that they had managed to kill some 20,000 hamas operatives to see this whole choreography unfold. >> the women. >> with badges around their. necks wearing. >> what appears. >> to be military. >> uniform. >> going up on stage, waving to the crowd, smiling. certainly at a distance, they appear well, they appear physically healthy. of course, there's going. >> to. >> be an initial medical assessment, but it was quite striking to see. and, you know, this is not the picture of

victory that is. going for israelis. this is not going to go down very well. in fact, you know, we saw it last weekend as well. but to see so many hamas fighters gathered and celebrating is not going to go down very well here in israel. you know, ali, you remember back. >> in. >> november, then secretary of state antony blinken had said that it was, in his view, israel had achieved the goal that it had set out for itself. and it was time to end the war. well, fast forward to just ten days ago. you know his last speech. antony blinken saying that it was the u.s. assessment that hamas had recruited, recruited almost as many fighters as it had lost. and we're certainly seeing indications of that based on the pictures coming out today from gaza. >> danielle, thank you. and we'll stand by close to you. steve. we're still waiting for that helicopter to land. should be any moment now. but i do want to ask you about the point noga was making about the palestinian authority and the role they play. here they are. they

continue to be recognized as the government of the of the occupied territories, and by many the government of, of gaza. at least that's what they say. the gazans don't necessarily share that view. but in the end, the netanyahu has spent most of his career since 1996 undermining the palestinian authority. and to some degree, he's been awfully successful with that. they are an undermined government. they are not trusted by many of their own constituents, but they claim to be they claim to want to have a role in in the rebuilding of gaza. what's going to happen with that? >> yeah. look, the palestinian authority is corrupt and illegitimate and unable to do much of anything. and that is a function both of the policies of israeli governments, as well as the fact that it is led by corrupt and illegitimate people who have been unwilling to stand for election for 18 years or so. the idea that the gulf states are going to pour money into the palestinian authority, which they think, which they see as throwing good money after bad,

is, i think, an absurd thing. the saudis and others often make promises for the purposes of public consumption and never come through. none of the gulf states are interested in rebuilding the gaza strip until after there is effective governance in the gaza strip. so you can see the chicken or egg type of argument. so while we may see some summits and statements coming from gulf leaders, i think it's very, very unlikely that anybody is going to pony up the money that they have promised or take an active role in setting up governance structures in the gaza strip. it's just too difficult a problem. it puts them at risk, both security wise as well as politically. and the israeli government and hamas seem intent on carrying on this conflict. so why would anybody get in the midst of it? the grotesque propaganda that hamas has put on

this morning is certain to enrage the israeli public. so while we may get further hostage exchanges over the course of the next five weeks or so, it's going to be very, very hard to get into phase two as long as this continues in. the political pressure in israel builds when the recognition for the recognition that the israelis haven't come close to their strategic goals in this conflict. >> as rob sanchez is still with us, i want to check if raf's there because he's on the ground in petah tikva. >> hey, guys. >> oh hold on raf, i sort of hear. raf. raf, are you. are you there in petah tikva? and what do you know about the helicopter situation? >> i am ali, i think you can probably see me here. you may be able to see that there's actually a large festive crowd that has gathered on the edge of this helipad outside beilinson schneider complex. a lot of israeli flags. a lot of people have brought their kids. this is a crowd that is excited to see these four female soldiers

released and on their way home. we are starting to see pictures on social media of some of these soldiers. larry al bag holding up a sign that in hebrew is thanking the people of israel. it's thanking the israeli military. and it just says in english at the bottom, i am back. now. that picture appears to have been taken inside of an israeli military helicopter, and we are expecting potentially any minute now, that chopper to land here. based on what we saw last week, we would expect the helicopter to come down. you may be able to see there there are two large black vans waiting. every indication is that these four female soldiers appear to be in reasonably good physical health. so far, they will have undergone an initial medical check by israeli forces immediately after they were handed over by the international committee of the red cross. but as you can imagine, there has been a lot of thought to the medical protocols here. and what the israeli government has said is if anyone is in real crisis coming out of gaza, they will be

taken immediately to two hospitals down in the south of israel, closer to the border. but assuming there is no immediate emergency, freed hostages are being brought here to the greater tel aviv area. so we think the helicopter will land, and then we are likely to see there's a lot of israeli security forces here. we are likely to see them put screens up in between the helicopter and those black vans. that is to try to protect the privacy of these four female soldiers. after their release, 477 days in captivity. it's worth saying that privacy violated by hamas earlier, but actually the israeli government putting out picture after picture after picture also. so the idea that, you know, images of these women are not being broadcast all around the world and that screens one way or another is going to make a difference. debatable. we expect them that those vans will drive the short distance. my camera operator, angela neal, wants to turn the camera around here. that's the

hospital itself, and we have been up on the floor, sixth floor of that building. now we're hearing a lot of cheering. people are turning their. oh, here we go, here we go. we are starting to see this israeli military helicopter coming now over the suburbs of tel aviv. and the crowd here is roaring. people have their smartphones up. this is the moment they have been waiting for. i'm hoping you're going to be able to hear me as these powerful rotor blades come directly above us, okay? flying directly over the parking. >> lot. >> there is just. cheers. broad. broad smiles of the faces of the families here. people have yellow balloons, yellow flags. those have become kind of the symbols of the hostage movement. people are chanting om israel. hi. the people of israel. live the long standing israeli and jewish. sort of profession of

faith. and here comes this military helicopter, just a couple of hundred yards above us. i expect that pretty soon we're going to start to feel the backwash as it comes in, and we. expect that all four of those hostages and their. family are on this helicopter, which is really right above us here. >> it's quite satisfying. >> one of the israeli crew members of that helicopter actually waving to the crowd. you might be able to see him sticking his head out. and this is it. this is. the moment. >> they. >> have waited for. that chopper is wheels down at beilinson schneider hospital. people here are in tears. we're just watching two women here, just weeping as they see this helicopter come in. we don't think that these are relatives of the hostages. these are just everyday israelis to whom this means an awful lot. and we are

starting to see the crew of that helicopter coming out. now. they're meeting other members of the israeli security forces. there's a lot of applause going up. and, ali, i think we may be seeing these freeze israeli soldiers walking off. it's we're a little too far to tell it. it's unclear whether these soldiers were going to put israeli military uniforms back on or not. i ali, i do want to just i just want to sound a note of caution here. i mentioned that we expected that screens were going to be put up. so we haven't seen those screens, which makes me think that we have not yet seen the hostages. >> that's interesting. yeah, because it's a big helicopter. so we don't know how many people are in it. we don't know who just got off of it. we have a tighter shot than you have, so i can see a little more, but i

can't see who exactly they are. not enough to be able to determine faces, a lot of activity. they are going toward the black vans. >> yeah. you're seeing one helicopter over my shoulder. i am seeing another helicopter. it appears to be flying away from the hospital, so i don't think that it has anything to do with this. but now. we're just watching. there's obviously a lot of movement. israeli forces on that helipad. and like i said, the real tell here will be if once those rotor blades die down and they do appear to be slowing, whether or not. okay. now, ali. interesting. all right. that helicopter is taking off again. this is this is live news. we are still a little unclear, right? whether this was some kind of initial party of israeli troops who landed at the helicopter at this helipad were

deposited, the helicopter taking off again now, or whether it's possible that those female soldiers walked off the helicopter, i will tell you, we're still seeing those large black vans waiting on the side of the helipad. >> so i'll just go. i'm going to show. >> our. >> audience for a second. you can look at raf's picture on the right there. and you see there's a building under construction. you can see it because it's got that yellow orange stuff on the top. you'll see it in a moment. and you look on the left. that's the same shot. just we are pulled out a lot farther, so we've got a higher shot into the same crowd that raf is in and we're seeing the same thing. so what we do know is that two helicopters did leave reem. air force base one has landed here. raf said he saw another one, but it was going. it seemed to be moving away. so we're not sure whether the people who got off that first helicopter are the hostages or not. we know the hostages are in idf custody. we already know that. we've confirmed that. and by the way, the israelis have confirmed to us as well that the palestinian

prisoners have been released in ramallah. so we know we know everybody has changed hands. we're just trying to find out whether the hostages got off of that helicopter and went to those black vans, which is where they would typically go. now we've got another helicopter coming in. you see it on the right side. so i want to go back to raf or at least get raf's camera and have that that audio up if possible. so we can see what's going on with this second chopper that's coming in this. we don't know yet. we just don't know. the cameras are too far. we don't know whether the hostages have landed or whether the hostages are on this chopper that's coming in. the crowd seems very excited by this helicopter. so this may be the helicopter that is carrying the four female soldiers who have been released this morning from gaza city. they were done. that was done in public. they were then given over to the red cross. the red cross handed them to the idf. the idf took them to reem air base. ironically, reem is where these women were posted when they were kidnaped on october 7th. they were then.

this is the same way it happened last week. they go from marine onto a chopper to this hospital in petah tikva, israel, which is a suburb of jerusalem, of tel aviv. and we are expecting now this second helicopter to land in moments. we're going to try and get to that big shot that we can so that we can watch that helicopter touch down. but i think this is raf's team and their camera on the right. that's our larger shot on the left. it's the same helicopter you're looking at and it's on its way down to the helipad at at petah tikva, israel. raf, if you're with me, that helicopter should be right above you right now. it's a lot of a lot of rotor wash, a lot of lot of noise. but if you're there, tell me what you think is going. >> on here. right here, it is right above us. and as. >> you say. >> the israeli flags. >> here are. flapping in the backwash of that powerful. powerful military chopper. >> ali, i will tell you. >> this is a slightly larger

helicopter than the one we. saw a minute ago, and it is hovering. over the helipad now. it is certainly would be large enough. for those four female soldiers and their parents who are accompanying. >> them, and. >> it is just coming down to land. it followed the same trajectory in as that first helicopter. and here we go. wheels down. helicopter number two at beilinson. schneider complex. those rotor blades, blades beginning to slow. now the back of the helicopter is opening up. there's a ramp coming down. and again, we are waiting for telltale signs. we are waiting to see if screens will be erected. we are waiting to see if. okay, the ramp has gone back up partially fully. we're waiting to see. i think either way, ali, they are going to wait until those rotor blades have stopped. i suspect before

they ask these four young female soldiers to disembark, given everything they've been through 477 days of captivity, we don't know potentially some of that spent in tunnels underground. one of the things doctors have said to us is they are trying to avoid overwhelming, overstimulating the freed hostages. and so it may be that they wait for these rotor blades to stop before they bring these hostages off, assuming, of course, that they are on board this helicopter. this ramp doesn't really seem to know what it's doing. it's opening. it opened, it closed again. >> it's now sort of half open. so we're i don't know if that's a mechanical issue or they're just it's closing again. so this is the second time now that the ramp has opened and closed again. now obviously on a on a helicopter like that, there are other points of ingress and egress. so they can actually get out through the doors if they needed to. so i don't know whether that's a mechanical problem or a decision making.

you can see through the windows there's activity in that helicopter. the crowd is getting louder and more boisterous, so something's going on. one of the things raf pointed out is that last week they tried to have some division between the crowd and the visual of the hostages as they went to those black vans. we haven't seen that. we haven't seen any screens go up. but as you can see, that helicopter is right in the way of the black vans. so we wouldn't actually be able to see people walking from the helicopter from that angle to the van. so we're not quite sure who is on that helicopter or who's coming down. here's what we do know. two helicopters left reem. two helicopters have now landed at petah tikva, israel, near tel aviv. so we are supposing at the moment, based on no confirmation whatsoever, but on the basis of what we know, that the hostages and some of their family members may be on this particular helicopter. but at the moment, raf, we've got we got your shot and we've got another shot. neither of us, neither of those shots tell us

who's getting off the ramp is still up on that helicopter. so again, i don't know if that's a decision or. >> a problem. >> i. >> yeah. ali. so here we go. the screens are being pulled up in front of this ramp. and an enormous cheer. and there is a doctor in a white coat who is walking up the ramp into the helicopter. and we do think that this is it. you can see those white screens with the israeli flag on the side of them. we've been talking all day about choreography. both sides are interested in presenting their version of what is happening today. those screens are now in place. what is happening on the other side of them? we can't see from here, but what we can see is that those black vans are now moving into position, and we

think that those four female soldiers are going to walk through that corridor created now by those white screens, and they're going to walk directly into that black van. we're seeing the large sliding door opening now, a lot of cheering here in the crowd. i think people may have been hoping to catch a glimpse of these female soldiers themselves. that is probably not going to happen, although i will tell you that last week, as the vans were driving from the helipad to a separate hospital here in the greater tel aviv area, a group of friends of one of the three women, emily demar, actually were waiting on the side of the road and demar insisted that the vans stop. she sort of half got out of it to embrace a couple of her friends before it went on to that hospital. that was sheba hospital, where at beilinson. schneider now, and we are hearing more cheering we're seeing we can see just through the smallest crack in those

screens that there is movement on the other side. we can see people are, oh, and there's a wave. there's a wave. ali, i couldn't tell you who that is, but somebody stuck their hand out of that black van and waved at the waiting crowd here on the side of that helipad. whoever is in that van will certainly be able to hear the cheers. they will able to see this small sea of israeli flags. and we think. >> we are seeing, we are. >> seeing. >> we are seeing women boarding that van. now, as you said, there's just a small crack between the screen and the door of the van. but we now have seen multiple people boarding the van, a number of whom we can identify from this distance with that camera as being women. this is the fourth person i'm seeing, but we don't know. there could be other women with them who are family members or soldiers who are not held hostage. but the van is now filling up with people. the next thing we will know is that that van door closes and the van moves off. it is going. your understanding is

to the hospital that you're just adjacent to. >> yeah, that's right. i might ask our camera operator, angelina, just to give people a sense of how close this is. so helicopter pads and then if we come around this way, that is the helicopter that is this new, brand new ish hospital. beilinson. schneider. so it is a very, very short distance to drive straight through this parking lot that we're waiting in, that this medium sized crowd is waiting in remains to be seen. you may be able to see ali. there's actually two ambulances also on the edge of the helipad. and again, just based on the tempo, the lack of sort of emergency from what we're seeing, it does appear that none of these freed hostages are in any kind of immediate health crisis. we think that they've been loaded onto this black van. they have not been loaded onto the helicopters. okay. so the screen is pulled away, the van is moving, and this is it. they are

leaving the helipad. they are heading into this hospital that is likely to be their home for the foreseeable future. the hostages freed last sunday remain in hospital. six days later. and these women now passing through. okay, they are not going to come through this parking lot, it appears. ali. it looks like they are heading away from us and are going to circle back around through a different entrance of the hospital. and we think that this is probably it, that those four hostages are on their way up to, i think, the sixth floor of this hospital. we had a look at some of the rooms where they are going to be treated, brand new rooms designed to support not just the freed hostages, but also their families. and ali, we are starting to see this crowd thinning out now, and we believe

this may be the end of this moment, that these people turned out to see these. >> yeah. now there's a second van that that's pulled up and they're putting the screens back in place on the second vans we've seen. the first van has gone out of the shot, i assume now at the probably approaching the hospital, if not at the hospital now the screens are back and that corridor is back and a second van has pulled up. i don't know if you have a good view of that, but there seem to be more people who are destined to get into a second black van now. >> yeah. so you know what, ali? you may very well we can actually see if we can see a little bit better into this van. we can see somebody in a white sweatshirt just climbed into the seats there. just thinking about the logistics here. you have four freed hostages. i think both of them have both of their parents with them. these are very young women, 19 and 20 years old. so we think that both they have both of their parents

with them. so that is if my math is correct, 12 people in total and then each of them will be assigned, you know, an idf liaison, a social worker, a doctor, a nurse. so it could be that this is actually a relatively large crowd and that it's been divided now into two different vans, because exactly as you say, we are now seeing those screens firmly in place. the side door of that black van open. we are seeing people climbing on board. those israeli security personnel remain in place. the crowd is starting to thin here, and we expect that probably in a moment or two. that black van will follow the route of its predecessor a couple of minutes ago and head off the helipads and back into that hospital. so we are waiting and watching. now, ali, just to

give you a bit of a sense of the treatment here, okay, that that screen is being pulled away. the side door of the van is closed, and we think that they will probably head off. there we go. slightly more muted cheering now from this slightly thinned out crowd. but that second van and we're actually seeing now some of the people in those orange hi vis vests who had been securing the screens, they applauded. also, they're giving each other high fives. they are now moving those screens away. so we think that that is probably it. now, all four hostages, their families, their support network loaded onto those black vans and heading into the helicopter. ali, just real quick, we had a chance to talk last week to some of the doctors here about specific medical treatment for

these freed hostages. one of the things they mentioned is refeeding syndrome. if you have people who haven't eaten in a long time, who are nourished as a lot of people in gaza, not just hostages, are malnourished, you have to be careful about what you feed them. you give them heavy meals, you give sugary meals. you can potentially send their bodies into shock. that can lead even to death in some cases. so they're thinking very carefully about what they're going to feed them. they're thinking about sunlight. the concern had been some of these hostages may have been down in tunnels for extended periods. they may not have seen the light. obviously, these women were released before midday local time. they walked into a bright and sunny square in gaza. they didn't appear to be having any issues that way. we do not yet know whether they were held in apartments, whether they were held underground in tunnels. but then you can just imagine that this is day one of what is going to be a very, very long road to recovery for these women. a battery of tests for their physical health, but also

ongoing support for their mental health, for their psychological well-being. and we did just see them heading in to take those first steps of what is going to be a long, long road. >> raf, thank you for guiding us through this, by the way. you know, that's heroes work because that first helicopter came down and we were all looking at the same thing. and you're you're there and you can't see what's happening. and of course, it seems like the hostages were on the second helicopter, but that's what being a reporter on the ground is. you give your best effort to make sense of what's what's going on, and you've really helped us do that, as you always do. raf sanchez for us at petah tikva, at the hospital where we now have confirmation the four hostages are we know that there have been in israeli custody. they are now at this hospital and we'll be getting the treatment. they recover. we have also received confirmation from the israeli prison service, concluding that the prisoners have been released into into palestinian custody in accordance with the agreement for the return of the hostages. daniele hamamdjian is in hostage

square. danielle, i just want to wrap this up with what's going on on the palestinian side right now. we believe that in exchange for these four hostages, because they were soldiers, it's 50 palestinians. so there's 200 palestinians who have been released into ramallah in the west bank. are all of them people who will stay there or are some of them people where the condition is they're going to have to go off to a third country. >> you know. >> depending on the. sentence they were. >> serving, some of them will. >> end up living in exile. possibly egypt, qatar or turkey. 114 out of the 200 have been dropped off in ramallah. 70 of them are expected to go to a third country. >> again. as i say. >> possibly egypt. for now. >> what's unclear to me. >> as you see, we're in. >> tel aviv, where hostages square. what's unclear to me is, you know, what kind of. scenes we're going to see in ramallah. >> and i've got just so you know, danielle, i've got pictures of ramallah right now, actually, we're looking at that right now. so carry on with what you're saying. but i'm just telling our audience we've got now, these are pictures of the palestinian prisoners being

released in ramallah. >> yeah. and you know what, ali? i'm surprised by the size of this crowd. and i'll tell. >> you. why is that? ever since sunday night on day one of the ceasefire, of course, there were hundreds of people in beitunia, near ofer prison. we were there, families waiting for the women. >> and teenagers who. >> were being released. ever since that night, there have. been a lot more. >> checkpoints in. place across. >> the west bank and gates as. >> well, which. >> has meant that journeys that should technically. take on an average basis. >> 20 minutes. >> have taken up to 4 to 6 hours. some journeys i've been told by some people who go, you know, from one end of the west bank to another two hours. >> has taken. ten hours. >> it is, in the words of one palestinian leader i spoke to, collective punishment, of course, as they launch operation. >> iron wall. >> in jenin. we can talk about that for a moment, but i can tell you that the crowds you are seeing now in ramallah, these people will likely either spend the whole day on the road getting back to wherever they've

come from. but among those prisoners, some, i think mohamed atta's has been in detention since 1985. he is the longest held prisoner without interruption. another one, nahal barghouti, is going to be released today, serving 44 year, with 32 months out of that in freedom. but quite the scene there in ramallah in the west bank. ali, as 200 prisoners are released today by israeli authorities. >> danielle, thank you again for your analysis last week and again today. we'll stay close to you on this story. daniele hamamdjian in hostage square. thanks also to noga tarnopolsky and raff sanchez, who are at beth tikvah hospital, and to steve cook from the council on foreign relations, who joined me. that does it for me for this hour. i'll be back later this morning at 10 a.m. eastern for velshi. stay where you are. the weekend starts after a quick break. >> muscle cramps were keeping me up at night. so then i tried slamming the magnesium plus calcium supplement that helps relax tense muscles so i can rest comfortably and slow. meg

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