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my favorites. get xfinity streamsaver with netflix, apple tv+, and peacock included, for only $15 a month. >> try and start controlling. >> your body odor better everywhere. >> good morning. it is saturday, january 25th. i'm symone sanders townsend with michael steele. alicia is off today. breaking overnight pete hegseth just barely confirmed as defense secretary. the stinging condemnation from one republican senator. plus, trump purges government watchdogs, putting. >> the. >> independence of. >> our nation's. >> inspectors general in severe doubt. and the breaking news of the morning, four more israelis held by hamas. they have been released, and they have just arrived at a hospital in israel. we'll be live in the region in just a moment. grab your coffee,

folks, and settle in. we got a lot to discuss today. welcome to the weekend. >> let's continue. >> msnbc's breaking news. >> coverage from israel for female. >> israeli soldiers have been released from hamas custody and have. >> just. >> arrived at a hospital near tel aviv. karina. >> arif. danielle gamboa. >> naama levy. >> and larry ellsberg were. >> held in. >> gaza for. >> nearly 500 days. they've been. >> reunited with their. >> families and are going. through a medical evaluation at this. >> moment. in exchange. israel released 200 palestinian prisoners. joining us live from. >> tel aviv is. >> msnbc foreign. >> correspondent danielle. >> na mahajan. >> marjan, welcome. >> good to see you. >> what's the latest? can you tell us?

>> well, as you mentioned, those four israeli soldiers. four female idf soldiers have just arrived now at the hospital in in israel. >> they'll receive they'll be receiving. >> a medical and initial medical assessment and they'll be reunited with their families. i'm here at hostage square in tel aviv, where the scenes were. as you can imagine, after 477 days. very emotional. surreal to see these four hostages coming out of the vehicle by hamas. they were taken on stage where they appeared. well, they were waving to the crowd. they were even at times smiling to the crowd. and, you know, there is a lot is going to be said about this large presence of hamas fighters in gaza city for the handover. you know, israeli authorities had said in recent weeks that they had killed at least 20,000 hamas operatives.

but there you had this large presence of hamas fighters, and that is not the image of victory that many here would have hoped for, of course. but for now, the focus is on those hostages. they are back, four of them. and these were women who were part of the surveillance unit at the military base. their job was to watch and monitor the border in gaza from their watchtower. and they were abducted on october the 7th. in fact, prior to october 7th, many of these women had reported to their superiors that they had noticed unusual activity at the border of gaza. they had told their superiors that hamas was training. their family members later told the media that those warnings were. >> ignored. >> and while in exchange for those hostages who were released today, as you mentioned, michael, 200 palestinian prisoners have been released. they've just arrived into ramallah in the west bank. but not all 200 were released in the west bank. among them were

prisoners who were serving life sentences. and they won't be released either in the west bank or gaza. in fact, they will be deported to a third country. we're not clear which one it's going to be. turkey, qatar, possibly even egypt. but among those released today will have been some prisoners who were in prison for 44 years, another since 1985. but they are greeted, as you can see here, from the west bank, by crowds and crowds of supporters of families who've not obviously. seen these these men for decades. and i can tell you what's surprising to me, looking at those images is the size of the crowd. and i'll tell you why. because there have been heightened israeli military presence in the west bank over the past week. hundreds and hundreds of checkpoints, which has meant that people cannot go from point a to point b in the 20 minutes. >> it would. >> usually take them. it's taken hours and hours. and for so many people to be gathering here in ramallah says something about

about this moment again, some of them will have been held for decades, but they will not be released into palestinian territories. instead, they'll be deported to a third country. michael. >> danielle, before we let you go, how. >> in fact, did the. >> israelis and. >> come to the realization. or that there that they were going to release the. 200 prisoners today? i know it was a part of the deal, but there was a hang up earlier. there the israeli government was expecting others to be released. there are two civilians that we still know are in custody of the are still hostages and but the four women soldiers were released. idf soldiers were released today. and there was a moment where it was questionable if these 200 palestinian prisoners were going to be released. what are we hearing from netanyahu? >> yeah, you're absolutely right that the expectation, according to the terms of the deal, was

that there was supposed to be three female. soldiers and one civilian. >> of course. >> as we've just mentioned, there were four female soldiers in all. and so that prompted a message and a warning from the prime minister's office here in israel. the prisoners were still released. but what is now the problem is that hundreds of thousands of gazans were expecting to leave their tents in southern gaza and go back home to northern gaza through what's known as the netzarim corridor, which is this stretch of this highway that runs east to west. and we understand that now, according to israeli authorities, that that is not going to be the case. there are going to be blocking access for those hundreds of thousands of people who will be going back home. how much of their home, of course, is still standing? that is another issue. the entire northern part of the enclave is in absolute ruins, but that is for now, the issue going forward this weekend. but the four hostages have been released. the two, the 200 palestinian

prisoners on the list. they have been released as well. but what remains to be seen now is how things are going. >> to. >> unfold on the ground. given that the expectation for so many people was that they were going to be able to go back to their homes in northern gaza. >> simone. nbc's danielle hamagen. >> thank you very, very much. we do have a. statement from the israeli prime minister's office, and i'll read a part of it. speaking to what danielle just noted, prime minister's office said today, israel received four kidnaped female soldiers from the terrorist organization hamas and in return will release security prisoners according to the set key. in accordance with the agreement, israel will not allow the passage of gazans to the north of the gaza strip until the release of the citizen arbel yahud, who is supposed to be released today, is arranged. we will monitor that breaking news and bring you anything new as it develops. let's head back to breaking news here at home from the capitol overnight, the senate just narrowly confirmed pete hegseth to serve as our

next secretary of defense. there were three republicans, including former republican leader mitch mcconnell, who voted against this nomination, forcing vice president jd vance to cast the tie breaking vote. this is only the second time a vice president has ever cast the deciding vote for a cabinet member. access nomination faced intense scrutiny and allegations of excessive drinking and an accusation of sexual misconduct, which he denies. joining us now is the former deputy press secretary for the pentagon, sabrina singh. >> sabrina, welcome. >> so a busy week. >> we're we're we're. still trying to take. >> it all in. >> hegseth is now our secretary of defense. i'd like. >> you to. >> hear what armed services. >> ranking member. >> jack reed had to say about. >> all of this. >> the senate is not considering a low level appointee right now. we are advising and consenting on. the nominee for. secretary of defense, and we cannot. risk

installing a leader who may have a history that is exploitable by our adversaries. nor can we risk. confirming a secretary of defense who has shown. that he is. incapable of being responsible, accountable, and law abiding 24 hours a day, seven days a week, as that job. >> requires responsible. >> accountable. >> law abiding. what's the expectation with hegseth? i mean, i mean, what do senators and. dod personnel at this point, from, from your. >> understanding. >> think is going to happen next? >> well. >> look, i mean, he was just confirmed. so he's going to be walking into that building. >> i think what senator reed. >> said is really important. >> that the job of the secretary of defense is. >> a 24. >> hour job. you can. >> get calls in the middle of the night at all times. i remember my. >> boss. >> former secretary of defense lloyd austin, being in the indo-pacific and getting a call in the middle of the night at 3 a.m. his time. you know, you

have to be. >> prepared for different. >> circumstances at any given time. so now. >> incoming secretary. >> hegseth is walking into a building. >> where you. have the acting secretary deployed. >> 1500 more. >> troops to. >> the border. >> that's going to impact. >> readiness. >> that's going to impact how the force posture looks. >> he's walking. >> into how are we. going to continue to support ukraine, a crisis in the middle east. >> of course. >> and then, you know, the. >> longer term challenges of the indo-pacific and china. >> we call. >> that our. >> pacing challenge. >> i know this administration, of course. >> is keeping an eye on. >> china, but he's walking into. >> things that are going to. >> require 24 over seven monitoring. and as he prepared for that job, you know, i think jack reed and, you. >> know, you saw senator. >> mcconnell's statement yesterday, i think that shows that there's a lot of concerns about his. >> you know. >> own readiness. and walking into. >> this job. >> we do have senator mitch mcconnell's statement. it says partly this effective management of nearly 3 million military and civilian personnel, an annual budget of nearly $1 trillion, and alliances and partnerships

around the world is a daily test with staggering consequences for the security of the american people and our global interests. mr. hegseth has failed as yet to demonstrate that he will pass this test. but as he assumes office, the consequences of failure are as high as they have ever been. that that is a that is a damning statement. can you just talk to us about the dynamics within the building at dod on your as you were leaving? and i'm really struck by what you said about what the secretary does. the secretary of defense is in charge of, like they're our lead negotiator and arbitrator of the agreements that we have with other countries and security personnel. like, i'm just has pete hegseth ever negotiated an agreement? >> i don't. >> think so. >> look. >> i. think i. >> think here one of. >> the concerning. >> allegations on, you know, pete hegseth. past is the mismanagement of funds. >> for. some of the organizations he founded. >> you're walking into a building. >> where. >> you're about to manage almost 3 million people, a budget of $1

trillion. >> this is one of the biggest. >> agencies in the. >> world, the. >> most powerful, lethal military. the world has ever seen. >> and that. >> is a job that. >> is going to require your attention. >> at all times. so the dynamics. >> in the building. >> look you have the good thing is, is you have really great people. >> there, not just. >> in the building. >> all. around the. >> world that are going. >> to be there. >> to help support. >> and guide the incoming secretary. >> so that. >> gives me confidence. >> that gives me faith in our institutions. but. >> you know, one a $1 trillion budget. that you have to be beholden to the. >> american taxpayers. >> that is a big deal. >> and i think, you. >> know, you look at the. >> past secretaries. >> that we've had, republicans and democrats, these are. >> people, you know, we might not have agreed with them at. all times, but they have managed multi-million dollar budgets at times. and, you know, understand the lethality of our military and. what this, you know, the decisions that. >> you're. >> going to make. >> and so. >> you know, the good thing is, is he's going to have good. >> people. around him. but i think. >> rightfully senators. >> well. >> is he concerned? >> is he really. >> that's the. >> thing. is he we don't. >> shatter your. >> confidence just.

>> a little. bit because i'm not. >> so confident. >> he's going to have good people. >> around him. >> we are going to talk a little. bit later about. >> the massive firing of, of igs in the various departments. >> and agencies. >> let's talk about. >> the people who. >> actually do the job. >> at dod. >> you know them. you've worked with. >> a lot of them. what are they. waking up to on monday. >> morning. >> and how concerned. >> should they be. >> that you have. >> a. secretary of defense who's coming. >> in, who's already claimed he wants to. fire generals? >> why? because i don't know. >> donald trump. >> told me to. fire generals. >> he wants. >> you know. >> he wants. >> to dismantle the administrative. >> state, if you will. >> of the dod. >> i don't know. >> how he's. >> going to manage the money, but. >> i just know that people. >> who have the kinds of issues that he's alleged. >> to have. >> do not. >> do well under pressure. so what what. >> do. >> people who work. >> in the. >> building? >> it's a big. building think's going to.

>> happen or how do they. >> look. >> at it? i think you raise a good point. look, there's a difference between the political appointees. >> that donald. trump and pete hegseth. >> install and. >> then the. >> civilian career. >> workforce and. >> the uniformed military and our men and women that serve. >> in uniform. >> every day. >> those are folks that, you know. >> have institutional knowledge. if i were an incoming. >> secretary like pete hegseth, that did not have the experience that. >> other secretaries. >> of defense have, i would rely. >> on that civilian workforce and those men and women in. >> uniform to help get me settled, to help get me up to speed. will he do that? i don't know, i think. >> we were pretty clear that right, that that donald trump installed a bit of a yes man here. but there are really great people on the joint. >> staff that i had the absolute honor to. serve alongside with every single day. so what. >> they're walking into the building on monday and. >> i, i got. >> to correct you. >> they're probably there. >> right now. >> oh, sure. >> working around the clock. you know they're going. >> to continue to. >> do their jobs. >> we have. >> missions all around the world, whether it be in the indo-pacific. in europe. in the middle east. >> they're going to.

>> continue to work and execute on. >> that. >> mission, and they're. >> going to. >> continue to do it every single day, no matter who's in that seat. so i think that's important. that should give the. american people some hope and confidence in. >> you know, our. >> uniform force. >> and our. >> civilian workforce. >> all right. >> hope and confidence. >> it goes. >> with. >> that for now. >> for now. >> i hope. >> and. >> confidence for. >> the. >> people, responsibility. >> and accountability for the secretary of defense. >> who do. sabrina, stick with. >> us for. >> a little bit. we're going to continue this conversation after. >> a quick. >> break, folks. >> so don't go anywhere. just >> so don't go anywhere. just get that coffee you're w the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now, i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill... that reduces the itch... and helps clear the rash of eczema— ...fast. some taking rinvoq felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days. and some achieved dramatic skin clearance... as early as 2 weeks. many saw clear or almost-clear skin. rinvoq can lower ability to fight infections.

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singh. >> you mentioned about the deployment of some of our armed service members to the border. i just want to read for you this from washington post. plans for donald trump's border mission include combat vehicles, infantry this from yesterday. discussions have also included sending a brigade of infantry soldiers from the 82nd airborne division in north carolina, and a mechanized unit with stryker combat vehicles from the fourth infantry division in colorado. each brigade has more than 3000 soldiers, but it's unclear whether all of them would deploy. there's also reporting from other outlets that say our marines are on the ground as well. what did you all discuss this prior to the administration turning over the fact that the

next president could deploy troops to the united states border. mexico border. again, this isn't the first time donald trump has done this right. >> and, you. >> know. >> it's important to. >> note that this is. >> not the first time that we have sent. >> troops to the border under the biden administration. >> we sent. >> approximately 2000 active duty troops to the border. i think what's important here to note is that these troops are. doing what. >> similarly, what. the troops. >> that were sent under the. >> biden administration are. >> doing is that they. >> are. >> in support of dhs. they are. >> in. >> support of customs and border. >> patrol, which. >> is the lead. >> agency and should. >> be the lead agency. the problem. >> here is. >> that these. >> troops, 1500 additional troops, are. >> being. >> sent to address a so-called crisis that we've. >> actually seen. >> you know. migration numbers go down. >> so you're. >> pulling troops. >> like you mentioned, the marines and other units. >> out of their. >> traditional missions. >> out of their, you know. things that they are regularly training for, which at the end of the day is going to. >> get to a readiness issue. the us military. >> should not be the force that's doing border enforcement. we have an entire agency

dedicated to that. >> and you might remember, because i know. >> you. >> covered this late. >> last year, the republicans tanked a deal that would have given. >> more funding to dhs. >> to these border. >> patrol agents. >> to better. >> enforce our borders. and that. >> was to give, you know. to cater. >> to donald. >> trump so. >> we can. >> fill these gaps that dhs. >> has at the border. >> but we should not. >> be the long. >> term solution. >> because that will. >> impact our readiness. >> long term. >> how do you. >> this before. >> we let. >> you go? >> how how. >> do you see the. communication between. >> this pentagon and prior pentagons with our allies? >> how do you. >> because i know in your job it. >> wasn't just standing. >> there sort of talking to the american press. you also had. to communicate policy and. >> and efforts. >> of the. >> of the dod. how do you see that playing. >> out with a lot. >> of our allies? >> you know, it's. >> going to be really. >> hard because i think. when we. >> came in. >> secretary austin, the. >> biden administration. >> really rebuilt. >> a lot. >> of those.

>> fractured alliances. >> that we saw break under the previous trump administration. it remains to be. >> seen what someone. >> like pete hegseth is. >> going to do. >> i think, you know. >> you have. >> someone like secretary rubio who understands the importance of these alliances, who is someone that, you know, has been in the senate for a very long time and understands what it means to work with allies and partners. i don't know that pete hegseth. i don't know what. >> i can say. >> he don't. >> so you can't. >> i can say he doesn't. he was. talking on a couch a few weeks ago. >> so there we go. >> well. >> you know. >> it's going. >> to be his day. >> one today. >> so we'll see what happens. >> all right. >> we'll see what happens. >> see what happens. >> sabrina singh. >> thank you. >> so. >> much for coming in and spending some time. with us folks. we have more breaking news to cover with msnbc legal analyst mary mccord right after this message coming up. stay with us again. you're watching the weekend. >> just that. >> just that. >> it's mesmerizing. cleaning that greasy mess with dawn platinum... and not even scrubbing. —well, fluff my feathers. — [giggle] it cuts through the slimy stuff

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new york times reports that donald trump fired 17 inspectors general. the internal watchdogs who monitor federal agencies. nbc news has not yet verified how many inspectors general were actually fired. but this morning, senator elizabeth warren blasted the alleged purge, saying, quote, trump is dismantling checks on his power and paving the way for widespread corruption. joining us now is msnbc legal analyst mary mccord. she's the former principal deputy assistant attorney general for the national security division, and she now co-hosts nbc's main justice podcast. >> so the. >> whole firing of the inspectors general to me says a lot, particularly given that. >> some. >> of those inspectors general he appointed. he's his. appointees from his last administration. what do you what do you. >> make. >> of that move? what does it. >> say and. >> how does it. impact the agencies that. >> in which. >> these inspectors general operate, given the role that they serve.

>> to sort of. >> keep those. agencies within the right lines? >> i mean, this is just the next in a series of attacks we've seen ever since monday, and it's only saturday. >> to ensure. >> that there. >> really won't be people. >> with independent judgment. >> in the federal agencies. >> we've seen, you know, senior. >> career officials. >> with institutional. >> memory. >> long time experience. >> who've been fixtures. within different departments. and in particular. >> i'm. >> thinking here of department of justice where this happened, getting moved out of those positions because they might actually push back on something. right. the inspectors general, they have a job to look for waste, fraud and abuse. they will do investigations when there's a reason to do those and those investigations, you know, sometimes might come up with responses that trump would want and sometimes might not, because if he wants to be able to use the federal departments and agencies to carry out, you know, his not. and of course, presidents get to use them to carry out their. >> policy priorities. >> but to do things, you know.

without anyone giving him any countervailing view. >> and also. >> not looking. >> and. scrutinizing whether there is. i'm going to focus. >> on abuse here even. >> as opposed to waste and fraud. then one way you do that is you get rid of these. >> inspectors general. i mean, the inspectors general will ensure that people are following the law and that nothing nefarious things are happening. and inspectors general are also where people go to where the whistleblowers go. there are watchdogs. there are watchdog. yes. i mean, we have from nbc news has that one department inspectors general tells nbc news that he received an email from the white house on friday night informing him of his termination, washington post reported. just just this morning that inspectors general were notified by emails from the white house personnel director that they had been terminated immediately, according to people familiar with the action. so the dismissals, according to the post, appeared to violate federal law, which requires congress to receive 30 days notice of any intent to fire a senate confirmed inspector

general. >> so and that's. >> that's one. >> of the interesting points. >> here, because inspectors general, it's kind of like the fbi director. they're not. >> political appointees. >> that change with every administration, right? >> they're presidentially appointed. >> senate confirmed, but they have extended terms. and so the idea is that they do stay through different administrations, kind of like the same point with the fbi director, so. that they're not just, you know, a chosen person by a particular president. the next president would normally keep them there. and that's why it is ironic, as michael said, that many of these people that are being fired are were actually. >> trump. >> appointees in. >> the first. >> go round. but, you know, what we're seeing this time around is very. >> different in. >> terms of who he wants to have at age and agencies, and i don't think he's interested. in all. >> of having. >> anyone who is going to be peeking behind the curtain. and, you know, this. >> is not. >> my particular area. >> of legal. >> expertise on this violation of the 30 day notice requirement. >> but this. >> is also of a piece with a lot of these. other firings and reassignments of senior

executive service career people, which is not. supposed to happen within 120 days of a new administration. >> so the. >> dissent, you. >> know. >> dispensing with these. >> things, the. >> dismantling for. >> me is, is part of this deconstruction of the administrative state that we've known coming for a while. but what i think was profound this week was a couple of things. one was the swiftness of it didn't surprise. >> me, but it. >> was just like. >> okay, they really do have their act together this time. but then the sheer sort of deliberate and even the sort of, you know, meaningful. glee of dismantling civil rights in the country. you have, for example, washington post reporting the justice department has ordered the civil rights division to halt much of its investigative activity dating back dating from the biden administration, and not pursue a new indictments,

cases or. >> settlements. >> according to a memo sent to the temporary head of the division that was obtained by the washington post. when you look at what they're doing internally with, with, you know, responsibilities regarding investigations, but then more broadly, what they're what they're doing just to, you know, on the dei front to stripping that out and just sort of putting everything in one big dei bucket. but then then with the executive order upending president johnson's executive order on. civil rights for federal. >> agencies. >> what what is the ripple effect of this? do you see potential lawsuits? >> do you see. >> the congress coming back and going, wait a minute, time out? >> that would be nice. >> wouldn't it? >> so. >> folks. >> clearly there's something. >> in my coffee. >> if i said that. >> i hope you're right about that. so i think, you know. the civil rights division is always

something of a political football. when administrations change, there are always that's an area. >> where policy. >> priorities will often change. and in the first trump administration, he also halted a lot of the. agreements that the department. >> of justice had. >> entered into with cities about. >> their policing. >> right. >> just like right now, you know, we have these newly announced. >> agreements. >> right, with louisville and. >> minneapolis. >> and those are. >> now halted. that was. >> less. >> surprising to me than this, you know, overturning decades and decades and decades of basic civil. >> rights law. >> or attempting to right and then gutting and reassigning civil senior. civil rights division attorneys. and, you know, i want to say, what is he doing with these reassignments? like, he's taking those. >> people. >> taking people from. the from national security division, including my former colleague george toscas, who is the institutional. memory at national security division. he has he knows every

counterterrorism case and counterintelligence case. >> you know. >> over the last 20. >> years. >> he has the relationships. >> with our. >> intelligence community. >> and with our foreign law. >> enforcement counterparts. >> when it comes to national security. where did he get moved? >> where did some of those. >> civil rights attorneys get moved to the new office of sanctuary. city enforcement that is newly created to try to crack down. >> on. >> you know, cities who have policies for law enforcement and public safety? they're not just policies. >> to. >> defy, right? trump. it's policies like we're trying to do policing in our community. we need to have the. trust of the. >> people we. >> serve. >> and that includes immigrants. so we can't be, you know, going around asking everybody about their citizenship status. that's what a sanctuary city is. and this crackdown, moving people out of all these. other positions. so what does this say? long term civil rights. >> is not what. >> we're prioritizing now. >> right? >> it's immigration, immigration, immigration. >> it's just. >> to me, i think people do not understand civil rights because.

they don't. it is it is not just the doj civil rights division. that executive order on dei, okay, which is really coming for affirmative action, the affirmative action, you know, the lyndon b johnson put forward, it goes to the very heart of things like the civil rights division of the department of education. >> yes, yes. >> the civil rights, where that's where you if you have a grievance or you feel as though that your rights have been violated, you can file a complaint and the division will investigate it. all of those things are gone now. they are attacking civil servants. and someone tried to say that these people were all political appointees. but i heard from a lot of people who worked in the biden administration who said that they feel as though that they went out on the limb for the president's executive order on equity, right, that there was some reorganization that the biden administration did. and knowing what was coming, they feel as though the administration kind of left them by the wayside. and now many of these people are on the chopping

block to be terminated. >> they they absolutely are. and, you know, it also, this executive order has that mccarthyism aspect like rat on your colleagues. >> if they're. >> sneaking and doing some dei. work and you got ten days to report it, and if you don't report it and you know about it, now, you're going to be targeted like some of the verbiage here is, you know, it's a shock and awe campaign, right? it's coming so fast and so furious this week. and the idea is to make people afraid. >> the people. >> you were just talking. >> about. >> the people who did go out on the limb, who did work on these dei programs to make them afraid, because i think the goal is let them quit, and then we don't have to reassign them and worry about defending this in litigation, like make. >> it such. >> an inhospitable place that they will leave. and the fact is, people are leaving. >> they are. >> leaving many, many people from the department of justice and elsewhere. >> yes. >> and you'll and you'll see it in how all of this is operationalized six, eight months from now, when departments and agencies.

>> can't function. >> can't. >> function, can function. people will see it when the veterans realize that they are part of the. >> yes, yes. >> yeah. >> we're going to keep talking about it. mary mccord. thank you as always, you and the bob, we appreciate it. >> there you go. >> you can also catch mary on her podcast, main justice, alongside fellow msnbc legal analyst andrew weissmann. in the latest episode, they review more of the executive actions signed by trump and the pardons issued to nearly all the january 6th defendants. scan that qr code on your screen to listen. now, folks, stick around. we have got folks, stick around. we have got more of the weekend [coughing] copd isn't pretty. from the struggle to breathe... to getting stopped in your tracks. bye, grandma. ♪♪ but with trelegy, i can finally move forward. with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups.

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relax tense muscles so i can rest comfortably and slow. meg tablets have a slow release formula that's gentle on my stomach. that's why i use slow meg. >> a word on d e i. >> yeah. >> you know. >> it's amazing to me how ignorant people are when it comes to this, because basically what republicans have done is just sort of dropped everything into this one little bucket and claim and claim it all as dai and claim it all to be bad. but when you look at the, the, the burgeoning of civil rights in the in the 30s 40s that culminated in some of the transitional civil rights legislation in 50 and 50 and ultimately the civil rights act in 64. you begin to appreciate the country's journey on this, and in a matter of a day, we have a president who didn't give a damn about any of it, just basically go. we no longer our

federal government now can discriminate against the citizens of the country. >> in every single aspect. and that's what i don't think people understand. like the equal opportunity, the equal opportunity order that johnson put forward in 1965, lyndon b johnson, it created it created the eeoc office. it was affirmative action. it had to do with contracting. i just in what universe do people really believe that dei or affirmative action means people who are unqualified are getting opportunity? the unqualified opportunities i see are happening at the highest levels of our federal government. >> the secretary of defense. >> thank you, because the president wanted him to and he was unqualified. like when you see and to be clear, white women are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action policies. they have. >> been the last. >> 30 years. >> that's talk about them. gaps between educational gaps and women in the workforce, white women in the workforce. you better thank president johnson

and affirmative action. >> well. >> the veterans affirmative action. that's dei how the veteran contracts. >> and let's. >> be clear, you know, art fletcher. who is the father of modern day affirmative action during the nixon years, really sort of crystallizing what you referenced, the sort of the contracting, the business component this whole idea was to for the federal government and for all of us to recognize the opportunity. let's just create the opportunity. let's not say, as we're already starting to see now that they've rolled back on these enrollments at a lot of our major universities, the african-american brown communities, asian communities, the numbers are slipping because you're not required to think about it. you don't think about it. >> again, as i said, i know we got to go. but as i said yesterday, i said, how do you account for the fact that we people of color, women, right. these people were not in some of

these spaces prior to the advent of these policies and programs. it can't be because we weren't qualified. it can't be because we didn't have the it can't be because they couldn't find us. >> right? >> right. they weren't they weren't they weren't looking for us. >> okay. >> looking for us. i just you know, lastly target you know i love target. but they decided to roll back their diversity programing. and part of that programing is working making sure that their their people who have opportunities to do business with target to get their stuff in the stores. so i guess i'll be shopping at costco. >> there you go. >> well. >> cost to the go. >> cost to the go next folks. the election for a new dnc chair is just a week away fast. shakir is one of the candidates for the post, and he joins us after the break right here in studio. break right here in studio. you're watching the weekend. ♪♪ you know that thing your family does? yeah, that thing. someone made it a thing—way back in the day.

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there when it matters most to them. well, we get to have that conversation directly with shakir. he joins us now. he is the executive director of more perfect union, a nonprofit supporting pro-labor journalism and advocacy. welcome to the table, mister chairman, to be. >> yes. >> fine. >> my best shine. your best. >> thank you for being here. thank you. first, you didn't decide to jump into the race until january 15th. so what pushed you over the edge? and then secondly, have you secured enough signatures to actually be on the ballot? >> yeah. so that. >> that i got done in a day. so i got the signatures. we're good there. when i got in i felt, you know, some of you know about me, i've been waiting for a decade, a decade plus for a working. >> class party push. >> and thankfully. >> we're now in a. >> moment where a lot of. >> people are talking about it. i'm like, hey, that's good. we're talking about it. so what's the new ambitious idea? and i was feeling let down on that. >> like. >> i don't see anything that would. be novel, new or interesting to working class people who are wondering, hey,

you guys, you guys at the democratic party, do you learn anything? >> are you going. >> to do. >> anything different? and i was let down, so i was like, okay, i have some ideas. i'm going to bring them in and shake this thing up and hopefully earn some people's votes. >> how how do you see the job of chairman? because the reality of it is it's going to be. >> mister chairman. you see how he leans back? he leans back. >> he he's. >> like he said, let me. >> tell you. >> let me talk. let me talk to you about being a chair. >> here's the real talk. >> so you will have the benefit of not having a president down at 1600 pennsylvania. right. that changes dramatically what you're able to do. how do you. see that sort of that freeing up of your opportunity? >> can i get philosophical with you for a second? >> i'd like. >> in this. >> moment, we've got crime, boss leading the nation, we've got oligarchy, we've got massive wealth and income inequality, power being doled out to those who have deep pocketbooks. and in a moment that people get frustrated with institutions like they get like, does anybody give a damn about me? does anyone with integrity run institutions? and most people

feel like, no, there's corruption all over the place. no one cares about me. but my case to a lot of people, is you're going to need institutions to fight for working. class people. you ain't going to do it alone. you ain't going to take on zuckerberg. bezos alone. the dnc is one of two major political parties in america. you got to run this thing with integrity. you got 50 plus state parties. you got 100 plus million dollars raised this year. are you telling me you can't get ambitious about how you build a grassroots oriented dnc that says we're in service of others, not ourselves? and if you can do that, when you see corruption at the highest levels of our country, i believe. you have a chance to expand. >> your membership. >> membership right now to the democratic party. is what an online contribution right? can it mean something more than that? can we be in service in communities all over the place saying, hey, when you go on strike, when you're organizing your workplace, when you're fighting your utility rate hikes, when you're trying to get your insurance coverage and your la fire, we are with you. we're part of that. we're of service in a community. i think we can get there. but that's the that's what i'm pushing. >> so how do you operationalize that? like what does that look like from the dnc member perspective? because i would also note that, yes, the online

contribution, but the members and the committee folks across the country. >> there's 450. >> of them, 400. >> come on now. all right. >> 448 458 he got nothing. >> i was about to say. now, do you. >> know. >> these are the folks that are there engaged? they have continued to be engaged through ups and downs, through wins and losses. so how do you operationalize that, and what are you hearing from the members specifically. >> right now in the democratic national committee? if you look at the structure of it, there are no grassroots operations. if you wanted to volunteer right now, you want to say, hey, i want to be part of the democratic party. is there anything for me. >> to do? i'm an independent voter right now. >> right. well, it's fair if i'm attracting you back, say, come watch the super bowl, watch party with me and hang out. and so what do we do? anything like that? no, the answer is no. and part of the answer is because you're strapped at the state party. if you're if you aren't one of the larger. >> funded state. >> parties and you're a smaller one, you're in idaho, you're in nebraska, you don't have a lot of resources to do this. so one of the things you got to do at the national say, hey, this matters to us. so we're going to have events organizing team and digital organizing team so that when you're a small state, you want to do super bowl watch party, or you want to organize

it with the tenants union or whatever you're doing on the ground, we're going to have to help you build an email list, send to that email list, go online to offline organizing. build an event for you on the ground with some national support, because you can't expect a lot of the smaller places, the red areas to be able to do it. >> so let me tell you why. what you just said is incredibly important, because that aspect of how you build party and party infrastructure rests not with the california's, the new york's, or more importantly, the battleground states, because they get all the juice. that's right. it is all the other states. it's the other 43 states in the country. when i was national chairman, illinois got money out of the rnc for the first time when i was chairman. why? because it wasn't a battleground state before. but what i did was focus on exactly what you said. if i'm going to build a 50 state strategy, i got to include all 50 states. i just can't focus on the ones that are setting us up for the next presidential run. but i need to have that infrastructure put in

place. why? because 38 of our states didn't have websites at that time. >> so it's the small things like that. >> the nuts and bolts, you're getting the nuts and bolts. because if you can't just sprinkle the dollars out to like, say, in idaho or nebraska or alabama and assume magic is going to happen, they may not even have,ou know, the know how of how to execute an email or events organizing on the ground. >> in nebraska. but but wait, does. >> but wait, jane. >> that's jane. >> can i. >> ask one question, though? people do want to know, are you a democrat? >> yes. >> you are a democrat. >> yes. i've worked for harry reid, nancy pelosi. >> i asked the people wanted to know. i knew the people. >> wanted to know. >> because the democrat. >> national chairman. >> well, people have, you know, let's just talk about. i'm a frustrated. >> one, but i'm a democrat. >> that's the case. >> guess what i'm doing? >> i'm you have a job. where's where's i asked, are you a democrat? because there are folks that when you announce that said, oh, he's not even a democrat. why does he want to lead the democratic party? and i'm like, well, first of all, do you do you know for sure that he's not a democrat, but also just because you've been critical of the party? yes. i, i

don't think it should disqualify you from participation. but again, what are the love, right? >> you criticize out of love when you feel anger. and i urge people to think this way. you know, when you get angry out there, sometimes the reason you're getting angry is because you really want them to succeed. you really want them to do well. the thing that we have to be nervous and scared of is people don't care anymore. if you don't care anymore, holy holy cow, you're gone, you know? but if you are angry, if you're upset, if you're critical, it means you have some emotion attached to this. you're feeling let down. can you? can you come back and talk to me like you care about me? and i think that's the opportunity. i think people feel let down, which means the emotion is still there. we can get to them. >> all right. >> here we go. >> all right. thank you, thank you. >> thank you. there we go. >> there we go. i got my petition thursday. we're going to see you next thursday because myself, jen psaki jonathan capehart and luke russert, we are coming together for to host a virtual forum hosted at georgetown university. you're going to hear from the candidates for democratic national committee offices ahead of their leadership elections.

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