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>> the yeas are 59, the nays are 34. >> the nomination. >> is confirmed. >> here today. pete hegseth was sworn in as secretary of defense after a 50 over 50 tied senate vote friday night was broken by vice president jd vance. more breaking news. the mass firing of inspectors general, government agency watchdogs notified by email late friday. we're going to have more new reaction to that in a moment. and some growing concern over trump's executive orders that threatens drug costs and health care coverage for millions. >> we passed a bill that would cap generic drugs for folks who are on medicare buy at $2. we pass bills that would cap the cost of prescription drugs for america's seniors. at $2,000 a year, we fix something called the family glitch, which allowed more americans access to health insurance. much of the rhetoric from the administration, to start at least, had nothing to do with lowering cost.

>> democrats today offering a grim assessment of trump's blizzard of executive orders and how it strays from his campaign promises. >> they lied throughout their care. >> their campaign. >> they said they were. >> going to focus on lowering costs, facing families. they're not. they said that they didn't know what project 2025 is. well, they're staffing their administration with its authors and already implementing that agenda. >> we have a number of nbc reporters in place ready to unpack all of these developments. i want to start with nbc's julia jester on capitol hill. welcome again, julia. republicans really trying to get through these confirmations as quickly as possible. what's the reaction to kristi? kristi noem's confirmation and of course, the close call with hegseth. and then what's next? >> yeah. alex. pete hegseth confirmation really came down to the wire late last night for the second time in history, a vice president had to break a tie on a cabinet level nominee. which just goes to show you how dicey

his path was, especially with mitch mcconnell. a surprise no vote. and not only did he come out against hegseth for his character and some of the issues that he's had with his past conduct, but also his ability to do the job, he released this scathing statement after the vote, which read, in part, effective management of nearly 3 million military and civilian personnel annual budget of nearly $1 trillion in alliances and partnerships around the world is a daily test with staggering consequences for the security of the american people and our global interests. mr. hegseth has failed as yet to demonstrate that he will pass this test. but as he assumes office, the consequences of failure are as high as they have ever been. now, mcconnell is no longer the senate majority leader. he has a little bit more freedom to vote as he wishes, but he didn't bring along enough no votes to sink the nomination. now, kristi noem had a much smoother path to confirmation, with eight democrats joining the

republicans in voting for her, including some in those key battleground states up for tough reelection bids. noem will lead the department of homeland security a little more than a quarter of a million employees there. it oversees fema. it oversees the coast guard, border and immigration issues. so she will have a quite a role to serve in this administration. we have senators who are looking forward to working with her. here's what one republican had to say about her at the helm of the dhs. >> i think she's qualified. >> i think she'll do a good job. >> i think she's she. >> my experience with the. >> governor is. >> that she doesn't govern. >> with appetite. >> and ambition. >> she governs, governs. >> with knowledge. >> and wisdom, and. >> she's passionate. >> but she exercises. >> power. maturely. and. >> she's going to be. >> very busy.

>> a lot of republicans, echoing kennedy's sentiment there. now, looking ahead, we have scott bessent also cleared a hurdle today for his confirmation vote set for monday. following him will be sean duffy for transportation secretary, and later next week, all eyes will be on what are sure to be contentious hearings for tulsi gabbard as director of national intelligence and robert f kennedy jr as the director of health and human services. that secretary role overseeing a lot involving american health care, vaccines, you name it. so busy week on the hill, alex. as you mentioned, republicans really want to get trump's cabinet in place to enact his agenda. >> oh for sure. thursday's going to be the big money stuff to watch there, because you also have kash patel for fbi director. it's a big day. let's bring in as i thank you. we're going to bring in nbc's yamiche alcindor with the president in las vegas. so, yamiche, you have new reporting on the trump administration having fired

multiple inspectors general. what is going on and what is the reaction been like? >> that's right. a senior white house official confirms to nbc news that at least 12 inspector generals were fired on friday. these are, of course, watchdogs that are supposed to be looking out for waste and fraud in federal agencies. now, i talked to a white house official today who told me that these firings are because the trump administration wants to get rid of anyone who doesn't align with the trump administration and wants to get rid of any of the biden administration officials who they just don't see as fitting in their administration. now, there is this issue of legality, because the legal justification here is murky. there was a law that was amended in 2022 that says that the white house is supposed to give congress 30 days notice before firing an ag, and gives substantial reasons for doing so. but that white house official tells me that these decisions happen with legal counsel looking over them. and the official added that they were checking with the white house counsel's office, but they don't think the administration broke any laws. so that's the trump administration's view of

this. now, there are, of course, a lot of critics of this move, one of them being democrat chuck schumer. take a listen to what he said today. >> donald trump's decision to. >> fire 12 of the federal. >> government's independent watchdogs is a glaring sign that it's a. golden age for abuse in government and even corruption. when government agencies disobey the law in the next year, and there's no. >> independent ig to keep them in check, donald. trump could well regret. >> this action. >> and as senior white house official tells me, that two inspector generals for sure are still in place. that's the inspector general for the justice department, as well as the inspector general for the department of homeland security. but this is certainly a situation that we're going to continue to watch. alex. >> okay. for which i thank you, my friend yamiche. appreciate you joining me. now, we have democratic congressman ted lieu from california. he is a member of the house judiciary and foreign affairs committees and a good friend to us as well. so, congressman, there's a lot to

get to from all those trump first week headlines. but first, your district in california edges right up to the palisades fire in la. it had parts of it evacuated. you were in that press briefing with donald trump. so describe the mood there. as you said, just a few feet away. how did it feel? was it more tense than productive or not? >> thank you, alex, for your question. let me just first say my heart still goes out to all the victims of the fires, as well as those who lost loved ones. and i do want to thank president trump and the first lady for visiting and looking at the destruction caused by the palisades fire. at that meeting, the president did show that he wanted to help the disaster victims. he wanted to help them rebuild. i do believe that the president wants to provide aid to california. we just want to make sure that that aid is not tied to completely irrelevant subjects. we need to make sure we don't use the pain and suffering of disaster victims to

have political policies jammed through from the other side, and we've never conditioned aid for other disaster victims before. so we just want california to be treated the same as any other state. >> well, at least i was encouraged when he said something to the effect of we can't have a golden age of america without the golden state, but doing very well. and of course, that is california's moniker. so let's hope he sticks to that. but how could trump's suggestion to get rid of fema change how emergency aid even works for states in a disaster? because historically, as you know, states have relied on federal support to weather storms. >> you know, one of the two states that have received the most fema funding in terms of individual assistance and community assistance, it's louisiana and florida. so what's going to end up happening if trump does this is it's going to hurt red states more than blue states. and in fact, blue states like california provide much more revenues to the federal government than we get back in services. so over the long run, trump's proposal would in fact hurt red states. so i expect

there's going to be bipartisan pushback on his proposal. >> okay. a federal judge yesterday barred some of the january 6th convicts were pardoned by donald trump from stepping foot in the u.s. capitol without approval from the court, though the doj is pushing back on that. most have free reign and say they are ready to help president trump. the proud boys leader, enrique tarrio, wants retaliation against those who testified and put him behind bars. do you worry about potential retribution and more violence? >> i do, it is massively disrespectful to pardon 1500 criminals, hundreds of whom had attacked police officers on january 6th. and some of these folks are quite dangerous and i expect some of them are going to commit more crimes. and when that happens, it's going to be because they were let out of jail free. and so we want to make sure that we protect folks, that we continue to have security at the capitol. and i

just feel very horrible for the victims of these crimes, for law enforcement officers that were attacked because the perpetrators were set free by these pardons. >> yeah. >> the trump administration did face a legal setback, sir, when a federal judge temporarily blocked trump's executive order putting an end to birthright citizenship, calling it blatantly unconstitutional. multiple states, that includes your state of california have sued, saying that the order violates the 14th amendment. you're a lawyer. how do you expect this to play out in the courts? >> i believe the president's executive order on birthright citizenship is flat out unconstitutional. it is as american as apple pie that if you're born in america, you're an american. and that's how the supreme court has interpreted the 14th amendment. the 14th amendment is very clear. it basically says all persons born in the united states are u.s. citizens. and i do believe that this is an unconstitutional executive order. i also want to

talk about the practicalities of this. let's just say that the supreme court said birthright citizenship no longer exists. well, what would that mean? that would mean that for 330 million americans, all of a sudden no one knows if they're a citizen, right? until you prove it. because guess what? your birth certificate no longer shows you're a citizen. so if you were born in ohio or florida or kentucky, doesn't matter. you all of a sudden have to show who your parents were. and what about folks that don't have birth certificates or their parents passed away and they don't have their birth certificates? it would be a huge, monumental burden to millions and millions of americans who all of a sudden would not be able to show that they're a citizen. if the 14th amendment were to be read as not allowing birthright citizenship. >> wow. i hadn't thought of that logistical hurdle, but you are 100% right. let me ask you about the past couple of days when we've seen a modest surge of ice arrests and military planes being used to deport some of these migrants and u.s. troops deploying to the southern border. is this the beginning of

the massive deportation effort trump promised, and how far do you expect it to go? how far can it go? >> the troops that were deployed to the southern border are not involved in deportations. if you look at what they're involved in doing is basically supporting u.s. customs and border patrol, doing logistics, doing surveillance and so on. i also want to note that in trump's first term, did he fix the border crisis? no, he did not. and this is not going to fix it either. the way you fix it is with comprehensive immigration reform. you're going to need a change in the laws. and i hope that the administration is open to comprehensive immigration reform, because that's the only way we're going to fix the immigration system. >> last question to you, sir. as you are a veteran, give me your reaction to the new secretary of defense, pete hegseth. >> i am deeply disappointed. i know you had congressman seth

moulton, a combat veteran on earlier. and i agree with what seth moulton said. i do hope that secretary hegseth does well for department of defense. it's one of the most important agencies in america. but i'm deeply disappointed that he was confirmed. >> okay. well, at least i'm not disappointed after speaking with you. i always appreciate that. thank you. ted lieu, good to see you. coming up later, what we know about the release of four hostages today in the middle hostages today in the middle east. we're back in 90s. can your pad flex with you without shifting? always flexfoam can. it's the only pad made with a flexible foam core with wings that fit securely for up to zero bunching and zero leaks. can your pad do that? see what foam can do for you. oh... stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh!

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immigration. 1500 troops have been sent to the southern border, and we have some new aerial images of the compound that they have assembled. plus these videos of the supplies they have gathered to enforce the border wall. you can see some barbed wire right there. let's bring in nbc's priya shroeder, who's joining us from el paso, texas. so, priya, welcome. walk us through the new military activity on the southern border. what are you observing? >> hey, alex. >> that's right. >> so these are. 1500 active. >> duty troops comprised. >> of 500 marines and 1000 soldiers. and this is in addition to the 2500 national guardsmen and reserve forces that had already been deployed here. so this is about a 60% increase from the troop presence that was already here. but this really is part of president trump's plan. as far as cracking down on border security and really amping up the military's involvement. and they're really going to be involved in three different ways. one is constructing both permanent and

temporary physical barriers. so that's the pictures of the concertina wires that you're seeing actually helping with the border wall to try to stop those illegal crossings. they're also going to be using intelligence analysts to try to help with the monitoring and detection of migrants on the border. and then the third sort of plan that they have for these troops is to use military aircraft as part of some of those deportation flights that the department of homeland security was really running before. they plan to take at least 5000 detainees from both here in el paso and also in san diego, back to their countries of origin. and i can tell you that over the last several days, we've already seen several planes landing here at fort bliss in el paso, carrying at least one plane leaving from here in el paso that was heading towards guatemala. we also know that on the other side of the border from where i'm standing over in juarez, mexico. mexico has actually been enacting these large tent like structures as they prepare for what could be a potential influx of mexican

nationals who are expected to be deported from the united states back to mexico in the coming days. but i want you to listen to what sabrina singh, who's the former deputy pentagon press secretary, what she had to say about all of this troop ramp up earlier today on msnbc. take a listen. >> so you're. >> pulling troops. >> like you mentioned, the. marines and other units. out of their traditional missions, out of their, you know. things that they. >> are. >> regularly training for. which at the end of the day is going to get to a readiness issue. we can fill these gaps that dhs. has at the border, but we should not be the long term. >> solution because. >> that will impact our readiness long term. >> now, obviously, this also comes as we're hearing about more ice raids and arrests in cities across the united states, including denver, buffalo, atlanta and new york city. one of the most controversial raids occurred in newark yesterday at a restaurant where, at one point, an american citizen who also happened to be a military veteran was detained and asked for his identification. alex.

>> yeah, i know there was a lot of outrage about that. okay, priya, thanks so much. and yeah, we're going to have sabrina singh as well on our show in the next hour. so thank you for that. joining us now for more on the trump administration's immigration crackdown is krish o'mara vignarajah, president and ceo of global refuge and former obama white house policy director. krish, good to see you. so let's get into this because in addition to more troops at the border, the trump administration threw out policies protecting sensitive locations, including schools, daycares, churches. what does this say to newly arrived immigrants who may have fled violence for places where their children and families can be safe? what are parents supposed to tell kids when the administration uses military aircraft to carry out deportations? this could have. >> a. >> profound impact. >> on immigrant. >> communities and. >> the broader public. and, you know. >> we are hearing. >> from immigrant families. who they're scared, the chilling

effect that this was intended to have. it's working, and it's sad when you see changes like the sensitive locations of churches, hospitals, schools now being potential hunting grounds, because that policy existed to ensure that people could have access to essential services like schools, hospitals, places of worship without fear of apprehension. and so i think without it, what we will see is many immigrant families, children fail to seek medical care, failed to send their children to school, even attend religious services. and i think that's where it isn't just about immigrants, right? we're also talking about whether we allow fear to undermine trust in our schools, in our hospitals, and how that's going to impact our local community. you know, i'm the mother of a seven year old and a one year old, and the idea of ice agents storming into her second grade class classroom makes me afraid. >> oh, yeah. you know, chris, you heard priya shriver there

talking about how at least one citizen was detained in newark during an ice raid. he also being a military veteran. so could refugee communities be targeted next? should. should, for example, resettled refugees and immigrants with legal status? should they be carrying their paperwork with them 24 over seven? >> now that is such an important question because i think it is incredibly valuable to underscore that the executive orders aren't just about the southern border, right? they also were crystal clear in striking at legal pathways like refugee resettlement. refugee resettlement is a system by which refugees from all over the world, they cross an international border. they apply through the united nations or the us embassy. they go through extreme vetting. they wait in their home country. and so it is the gold standard of what people talk about when they say coming the right way. and yet refugee resettlement was suspended. yesterday. we got a letter indicating that we should stop work operations, which means we don't know how we're going to

assist our afghan allies who worked alongside our u.s. troops. and so all of the changes we are seeing are incredibly troubling. >> okay. i want to pick up on that, because the state department at the of president trump stopped the incoming flights for refugees from multiple nations in particular, as you mentioned, from afghanistan, many of these people had tickets. they were already on their way here. what do they do now? >> that's the million dollar question, because candidly, as as the second largest resettlement network in the country, we're still trying to figure out what this means. you know, we were thankful that the executive order exempted afghan allies, knowing that they put their lives, their families, lives on the line to protect our u.s. troops. and so we have afghan allies who will be arriving this upcoming week, the next week. we don't know how we will be able to pick them up at the airport, find them housing

so they don't go homeless, help young families enroll their children in in public schools. and so i think this is the guidance we're hoping to get. but it is really disheartening when you think about how we applaud our u.s. troops, rightfully so, when we deploy them to the southern border beyond their general mission. and yet here we are undermining a program that u.s. national security officials have always championed, because it is how we protect our national security interests. >> and keep our reputation that we make good on our promises around the world as well. krish o'mara vignarajah, thank you so much. freedom in the middle east, where the hostages are, how they're doing and what the next steps are in the cease fire next steps are in the cease fire deal coming your way dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye:

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young, 19 and 20 years old, free today, as you said, after 477 days of captivity. and the early signs are that they are in reasonably good health, given just the unimaginable trauma that they have lived through over the last 15 months. all of them you saw able to walk unaided onto that stage that hamas erected in gaza city, they were then able you're seeing them there, flanked by those heavily armed hamas gunmen, then able to hug their parents, to climb onto a helicopter, to fly here to tel aviv. and we had a chance to catch up with a senior medical official here at the beilinson schneider hospital earlier. and he told us a little bit about their condition. take a listen. >> we know that. >> they are in good. >> health condition. >> we are starting now. the physical lab results, x-rays and other tests that they will go

through. but there is no reason to rush. we think that it will take days, weeks, sometimes months or not forever till they will describe if ever what they went through during this last 15 months. >> so a whole battery of tests for their physical health there. and as you can imagine, alex, a very long way to go spiritually, emotionally and on the mental. >> health side. yeah, 100% very quickly, the palestinian prisoners, where are they? those that were released. >> so 200 of them released. some of them have gone to the occupied west bank. some of them are in gaza. interestingly, some of them have been deported to egypt. they may go on from there to other third countries. that was one of the conditions israel set on their release, that they could not go back to the palestinian territories. some of these people were serving long sentences, convicted in israeli

military courts, usually of murder, of terrorism in some cases, and a lot of discontent on the far right of prime minister benjamin netanyahu's government about the release of these prisoners. but polls show majority of israelis think that that is a price worth paying if it means getting the hostages home. >> alex. okay. ralph sanchez, thank you, my friend. the politics and consequences of the politics and consequences of the ja(vo)y 6th pardons explore the world the viking way from the quiet comfort of elegant small ships with no children and no casinos. we actually have reinvented ocean voyages, designing all-inclusive experiences for the thinking person. viking - voted world's best by both travel + leisure and condé nast traveler. learn more at viking.com.

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>> new restrictions for some of the most prominent january 6th defendants in the wake of trump's sweeping pardons. a judge blocked several defendants, including oath keepers leader stewart rhodes, who was seen inside the capitol this week from entering dc without permission. the doj countering that effort. meanwhile, former proud boys leader enrique tarrio called for legal retribution against the doj and prosecutors. >> i don't. >> see as what i've done anything wrong. >> i was. >> improperly indicted. i see it, i do see it as a miscarriage of justice. and it wasn't the actions. >> that he pardoned. >> it was a. >> miscarriage of. >> justice that he pardoned. >> joining me now, democratic strategist and former adviser to the obama campaign, and misha cross and brendan buck, msnbc political analyst and former press secretary to house speaker john boehner. welcome you to amisha terrio said he wasn't asking for violent retribution.

but does that threat remain when you have these leaders calling for revenge? i mean, one follower could interpret it to mean violence. is donald trump prepared for that? >> i think donald trump is prepared for it. i also think that there's something sinister behind it. one thing that we know about criminality is that those that have committed violent crimes are likely to commit violent crimes again. that's one of the reasons why we try to keep violent criminals detained. but in addition to that, set parameters around them when they are released. with that being said, this is a guy who knows that words have power. we recall even before january 6th, the proud boys were issuing all types of statements where they were utilizing white supremacist violence throughout communities across this country. so he definitely knows that his words have power, as does donald trump, who during his last time in office, uplifted a lot of the words of people like the proud boys. >> so, brendan, the pardons took many trump allies by surprise. many republicans, in fact, have struggled to respond when they're asked about it. could

this have political consequences not only for trump, but also lawmakers in the midterms? >> perhaps? >> i mean, the consequences haven't really caught up to anybody yet. donald trump ran on the idea of pardoning these people. but what he did run on the on more specifically was he was going to pardon the people who were nonviolent and as much as his own vice president were saying that just days before the pardons. i think it's important to appreciate what donald trump said recently, explaining that he said that it would have been too cumbersome to go through all of the cases and figure out which ones were too violent to release. it was too cumbersome. he didn't want to take the time to think about it, think about whether or not this person was actually a threat to further violence, or what they did was so heinous that they shouldn't be released, like injuring police officers. that's how serious or not. seriously, he's taken this. so, you know, he may he may act like there was some greater calling what's going on here? but he sort of gave that

up when he admitted he didn't even look at these things. he just said, look, if these people were for me on that day, i don't care what they did. let them all out. >> yeah. just letting that sink in for a moment. all of you watching as well. amisha, let's move to the trump administration. having carried out these very publicized immigration raids, over 1100 arrests were made across thursday and friday. the mayor of newark, new jersey, reacted to an immigration raid in his city thursday at a local business. he said u.s. citizens were detained. listen up. >> none of these people. >> were rapists or murderers or criminals. the problem with it. is that ice went in there without a warrant, and. >> we can disagree. on politics. but what we must. >> agree on. >> is that the thing that separates this country from many other countries around the. world is the constitution. >> of the united states. >> so we know about 70% of those arrested thursday and friday had criminal records. does it seem

like trump is keeping his pledge to go after criminals first? >> no. it seems like donald trump used that as a pr campaign to basically relax the emotions of those who are undocumented or going through the process and have not, you know, been been completely granted citizenship yet to feel as though they were going to be okay. what we're seeing in these raids is that they are no respecter of persons. they are going to restaurants, they are going to stores, they are going to communities that are known to have sizable latino populations. and they are just essentially rounding people up. there was one case specifically in newark that the mayor actually talked about, where one of the people who was who actually encountered ice was an actual was one of our former servicemen. he was a veteran, someone who had documentation, someone who had his id on him. and ice acted as though that id might have been fake. they do not care whether these are actual american

citizens or not. and i think that as this continues to happen, we're going to see more and more people get rounded up who are legally in this country, who just happen to be of a latino background. >> brandon, at least one deportation flight was not able to take off because mexico denied that plane access to land. will trump have the resources and the cooperation of other nations actually to carry out the mass detentions and deportations that he's promised? >> it's absolutely the right question. and i think what you're seeing early on, jamelia's point is a lot of activity to get people all spun up because there are real logistical roadblocks to being able to do what he's talked about doing. mass deportations. while there have been raids here and there, there are always raids. there were raids in the biden administration. it's not so easy to just go in and identify dangerous criminals and root them out. they also don't have anywhere to put them. this is going to if they're actually going to do this, it's going to take a really long time, but

it's also going to take a lot of resources from congress. and it's not exactly clear that they're going to be able to get those. so i think what they're trying to do, i think, to marsha's point, is to scare everybody. it's one scare to people who are here, maybe hope that they they leave, but also scare people from coming here in the first place. look, i think if donald trump kept his promise to root out criminals who are not here illegally, that would be really popular and i would be all there for that. i think they probably are thinking much bigger than that, and i think they're just going to be building to it. so it's going to be a story that's with us for a long time. it's just easier said than done at first. >> i'm going to ask this last question to both of you and ask for your answers in a few words. brendan, you first, with jonathan allen describing trump's first week as rewarding his maga base and settling scores. and he said trump's flood the zone strategy means that each move gets less scrutiny than it would under a less activist president. is he hoping that this avalanche makes it harder to push back against specific actions? and do you think it's working? >> absolutely. and it's been a calling card of his forever.

it's hard to keep track of whatever he's doing because he'll he'll outrage you with something else the next day. there's a list of things we could talk about. he did in the first week that we don't have time to get into. i don't think that's going to slow down anytime soon. >> okay. last word to you quickly, mika. >> no, i think that's absolutely true. this is donald trump's m.o. he likes to open the floodgates, and that's what he's doing. he is not only eradicating a lot of the a lot of the policies from the biden administration. he's also going all the way back to lyndon baines johnson. he's hitting you with the unraveling of civil rights, re-envisioning the department of justice. these are things that took decades to put into place, and he is essentially watering them down and erasing them within a matter of days. >> it's pretty stunning. alicia cross, brendan buck, good to see you both as always. thanks, guys. sabrina singh, former deputy press secretary at the pentagon, will weigh in on the use of military planes and the immigration raids. plus her thoughts on the new secretary of defense, pete hegseth. in our next hour.

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let's review because congress passed the law banning it last year over concerns that china was accessing users private data and then using that to spread propaganda. but they did a poor job explaining to tiktok's 170 million users why this ban was necessary. here's alexandria ocasio-cortez, who voted against the ban. take a listen. >> very high. >> ranking members. >> on the house foreign. >> affairs committee. >> came to me after. >> the. >> briefing. and they were. >> very shocked. >> and pretty surprised. >> at the. >> lack of substantive information. >> in the briefing. they were genuinely expecting there to be some. real or compelling. intelligence shared that would substantiate the argument. and there. >> just wasn't. >> are the national security concerns justified? it justified

rather? and if they are, how exactly is beijing using data to manipulate users? >> there are two broad. >> areas of concern that policymakers have articulated. and i should say. >> i haven't been. >> in that. classified briefing. >> i would. >> really encourage the government to declassify. information that was contained in it. so we can really evaluate those risks. but what. >> i do. >> know is that policy makers are concerned about the potential for two things. >> one, the. >> data collected about people on the platform. so who you're connected with, what. >> you like. >> behavioral insights. that could be used in the hands of a competitor or an adversary, as the us government has labeled china, in this case, to manipulate people who have access to national security information. do they have access to critical infrastructure? could that be used to blackmail or coerce them? so that's one of the potential issues. i would say that that primarily applies to a more narrow subset of the population. the second issue is about the information that the

algorithm could potentially push to viewers. could the chinese government, for example, hypothetically cede information that weakened americans confidence in democracy? these are the areas of concern. in response to this, tiktok entered into a negotiation with the us government for several years to try to address those concerns. the data is essentially housed in the united states. the source code is reviewed and audited by oracle. many lawmakers believe that those were not. that didn't go far enough to address the concerns. and i think that there may be debate around that. given aoc's comments that we just reviewed. >> so i don't want to put you on the spot, but when i'm listening to the two big concerns that you have, do you think tiktok poses a national security threat without having seen. a confidential information? do you think it does. >> data concern what data risks

what is real online? these are huge issues that american lawmakers are grappling with. is it specific to tiktok? one of the issues i think people need to look at is how is that distinct for tik from tiktok relative to other social media platforms? and i think these are issues that us policymakers would be wise to grapple with in ways that are bigger than any one company. and to the extent there are classified issues, i think the american public should be able to debate those. >> so donald trump originally tried to ban tiktok during his first term. it was over national security concerns. now he's flip flopped. can tiktok be saved while still protecting national security? would a 50% sale to an american company address any of these concerns that you've shared with us? >> well, i don't think we really. >> understand what's on the table. what is a joint venture mean in this context? would the us government have a joint venture with bytedance? i don't

think we know. would we would elon musk or any of the other, you know, advisers around him buy it? what does that mean? and i think that until we have more clarity on that, it's hard to say. >> sam sax, we're going to have you come back and talk with us as this all gets further fleshed out, because you're leaving me with more questions than answers. so you're going to have to come back and answer a few more questions, but understandably so. thank you. in our next hour, michael schmidt of the new york times, on his latest article about president trump and a potential roadmap trump and a potential roadmap fo ever feel like a spectator in your own life with chronic migraine? 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner. so why wait? talk to your doctor. botox® effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.

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