entleman, somebody that he truly isn't. and that's the whole cautionary tale, is you never know are they actually who they really say they are. keith morrison (voiceover): always, she'd been surrounded by people who loved her, worried about her, cared about her. mackenzie lueck was an innocent, setting out, if only for a moment, to explore new possibilities, unaware that in the world she was entering, the innocent can also be prey. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm andrea canning. thank you for watching. >> good morning, and welcome. >> to this sunday edition of morning joe.

>> weekend. >> it was yet another fast moving news week. here are some of the most important conversations that you might have missed. >> president trump. continues to defend. his pardons for all of the january 6th rioters. the president downplayed the violence against police officers that day in the first oval office interview of his. new term. take a listen. >> for a number of reasons. number one, they were in there for three and a half years, a long time, and in many solitary confinement, treated like nobody's ever been treated. it's treated so badly. they were treated like the worst criminals in history. and you know what they were there for? they were protesting the vote because they knew the election was rigged and they were protesting the vote, and that you should be allowed to protest a vote. you should be allowed to, you know, the day when the day comes, you shouldn't be able to invade the capitol. ready? most of the people were absolutely innocent. okay. but forgetting all about that, these people have served

horribly a long time. it would be very, very cumbersome to go and look. you know how many people are talking about 1500 people? almost all of them are. should not have been there should not have happened. and the other thing is this some of those people with the police. true. but they were very minor incidents. okay. you know, they get built up by that. a couple of fake guys that are on cnn all the time. nobody watches. they were very minor incidents. and it was time. you had 1500 people that suffered. that's a lot of people. you know, they were looking for new people. two weeks ago, they were looking. wait a minute. they were looking to charge new people. they have a woman who's 76 years old that they said was made a statement that was a little bit out of line years after the fact. this was a political hoax. and you

know what? those people and i'm not saying in every single case, but there was a lot of patriotism with those people. >> so, sam stein, you just heard. >> it from the friendly. >> confines of sean hannity. oval office interview. donald trump continues to downplay what happened there, suggesting that officers were exaggerating their injuries. >> we had michael. >> fanone on our air yesterday talk about how he suffered a heart attack, went into cardiac arrest, was beaten within an inch of his life. we talked about how members there, you know, rise. some of the rioters would use flagpoles, baseball bats, whatever it might be. the cops own weapons, their batons to attack them. and yet this for donald trump seems to be closing the book after four years of us in his mind, a successful effort to downplay what we're seeing right there on our screens. i mean, obviously it's ridiculous and insulting to the officers who went through that traumatic ordeal. several officers. >> took their lives. >> i don't consider that minor

in the slightest. i don't think anyone would objectively consider that minor should. >> note that. >> it was. interesting to see hannity kind of. sheepishly say, you shouldn't be able to invade the capitol, right? >> of course, you shouldn't be. >> able to be in the capitol. that's it goes without saying, but. >> this. >> is trump at his, you know, peak, right? he wants to erase this part of history. and i'm not honestly, nothing about it surprises me. i think the more interesting, more surprising element of this was mike johnson, which the video will be played, which is mike johnson sort of saying, well, let's just move on. that's in the past. we don't need to relitigate this. let's go for it. and then hours later, launching a an investigative committee in congress to investigate the preceding days of january 6th and the and what happened after january 6th, basically investing the investigators. and so they are trying to recast this entire history begins with trump's blanket pardons, which in that interview, he said it would've been too cumbersome to go through individual cases. so just do all 1500 and then it

continues into the use of congressional resources, congressional authorities, to try to cast doubt on the prosecution and legitimate prosecution of the people who rioted, who tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power. it is a deliberate and comprehensive attempt to try to rewrite the one of the darker chapters of our political history. >> well, you know. >> we've seen before. >> when congress and others. have tried to investigate the. investigators regarding. trump administration. >> it never ends well for those investigating the investigators. >> and in. >> this case, you. >> better believe. >> that if you. >> open. >> this door back up. and you really want to go back to. >> january the. >> 6th, and. >> you were a. >> supporter of donald trump, you're going to not only see this, you're going to. see cops. as as the wall. street journal called. >> them cop beaters. you're going to see the. >> people that, that, that. >> that. >> walked free. >> after beating. >> the. >> hell out of. >> cops. >> after after doing things that

led. >> to the. >> death of several cops. talk to their families. >> they'll tell you that. you'll hear. >> more people like michael fanone. >> who went. >> to work. >> that day to. >> do their job. >> to. >> protect the united. >> states capitol. >> who had the hell beaten. >> out of them. >> they were kicked. they were tased. >> and by. >> these. >> people that were bragging, they. were bragging about. >> beating the hell. >> out of law. >> enforcement officers. >> so the. >> elevation of cop beaters. >> yeah. bye bye. mike johnson saying, oh, listen, let's not focus on the cop beaters. let's let's focus on the biden pardons, you know. >> good luck. >> with that. >> it's just not. >> going to end well. >> it's really. >> not it's not going to end well for republicans. it's not going to end well. >> for the. >> white house. david drucker. let's let's. >> talk though about. the impact and the blowback on this. i've already talked about how the wall street journal. editorial

page was, was sufficiently shocked. at at clemency for cop beaters. and, and there were about half a dozen republicans that came out yesterday in the. senate and, and actually condemned this, said it was a bad thing to do. they wouldn't. do it. that said, from republicans i spoke to and i'm really. >> curious what. >> you heard, whether they. >> said it in. >> front of microphones or not. >> there was. >> a deep. >> abiding unease. >> all across the capital. yesterday among republicans saying that some of the worst. >> of the worst. >> actually got to walk. >> free after. >> beating the hell out of law enforcement officers. yeah. >> look, i mean, how often is there a deep, abiding unease about something donald. >> trump says or does? >> and it really doesn't matter. >> he campaigned on this. he said he was going to do this. this is not shocking. and all that matters. politically is.

>> what. >> do voters think? >> and voters. >> voted for him anyway. so i'm not saying it doesn't matter. and i am not saying. people shouldn't be upset, but. this is not going. >> to surprise anybody. >> and it's the sort of thing that could end up blowing back on trump if the things he was really elected to do, which is get the border under control and improve the economy by bringing down inflation, bringing down costs, i mean, these are things that voters really want from him. >> not all of this other stuff. >> if he gets that wrong, then it becomes death by a thousand cuts and it's like, oh, you. >> did this. >> and you did that. >> but all. >> of these things were very well known. so this is not to excuse it, but just to point out politically, this is not going to be a shock to the system or a shock to the public, nor is it a. shock to republicans. they knew he would do this. and they have been okay with this because their voters have been okay with this. and look, we could end up being wrong. there could be some sort of immediate, you know, pushback broadly throughout the

country. but everybody knows who donald trump is at this point. they've listened to him for almost a decade. and i'd be surprised if initially there was a big uproar. >> well, mika, this. >> is what what what you've been saying is. >> yeah. >> he he. >> campaigned on this. he promised to do this. i mean, the only caveat to that, of course, is talking about doing it by case. >> by case basis. >> jd vance saying, no, we're not going to let the violent criminals out. the ones that beat up the cops. and we heard that from a lot of republicans. but that is a caveat to a much bigger campaign thing. >> where he glorified. >> throughout the campaign, the. >> january 6th rioters. >> voters knew he was glorifying them, calling them patriots, and they. voted for him and elected him. so david makes a very good point. >> yeah. and not. >> only did he campaign. >> on this, this is his right. >> as hard. >> as it is to say this is his

right as president. and yesterday i. >> was. >> reading a lot about this and. watching the. >> coverage, and. >> i was seeing. reporters getting into huge fights. >> with republican congressmen. >> and they. >> just kept going around. >> in circles. >> because, of course, donald trump. >> kept his word. >> and joe. biden did not. >> that's also true. and so that's the trap. you know. >> reporters are going. >> to. get in. they're going to go. >> round in circles. >> that's only going to feed into the negative narrative about the media. it's going to do nothing to prove a. >> point about this. >> nothing. >> it actually may. >> undermine it. and mara gay, i feel like editorial writers need to. step up. democrats need. >> to step. >> up. >> a voices like. >> michael fanone need to be heard. i was listening to him all day, and we had him on the show yesterday. gripping and. absolutely to the point of the problem here. and so there's a role here for those who need to step up. and by the way, i would

really. hope that some republicans. >> would step up. >> but again, there are some. >> potholes here. >> that i think the media falls into. and we can't let that happen. >> because there. >> are some realities. >> about this that. >> are undeniable. >> it is his right. >> and he promised. and then there's the counter. >> narrative. >> which is also undeniable. >> joe biden promised that he. >> would not pardon his son or his family. and he did. and he also pardoned. >> others who have done things. >> and it's extremely muddled. and it's not a fight that i think personally, reporters and hosts want. >> to get. >> in to have moments. i think i really don't. i think we're getting in the way of things. so i'm looking at. this from a coverage. perspective to someone who works at the new york times. >> i think that's exactly the right question. you know, during. >> trump's first term. >> there was a lot of both. >> on the part. >> of the democratic.

>> party and even. >> from voters in the media. there was kind of a grasping. >> at normalcy. so an attempt. >> to excuse away, to minimize some of what. >> donald trump. >> was not only doing in office, but said that he was about it was clear that he was. >> not committed to. >> democracy, but there was a lot of kind of hand-holding. >> of. >> donald trump. >> well, surely. >> you. want to actually. >> support democracy. >> surely you. >> couldn't mean the. >> things that. >> you're saying. and i. think this is a moment where the opposition and that is not just the democratic. >> party. >> but that's any american who's committed to democracy, has to look at this and say, this is about raw power, and this is a. >> man who promised. >> some really shocking things that. are destructive. >> to our. >> democracy, and he is. >> delivering on them. >> there is. >> no excusing. >> it away. and i think the other. >> moment. >> you know, this, the pardons are one moment, you know, the

nazi salute from elon. musk was another. so this is a challenge to not excuse away, not minimize, to call a spade a. >> spade but cover it. and those who should call a spade a spade, especially republicans and democrats. and in washington. editorial writers, victims, you know, ultimately, americans will have to see what. is happening here as he. delivers on his promises, and they. >> will decide. >> whether or not this is what they really wanted. i do i do talk to a lot of people who voted for trump who don't think these things would have happened, so i wonder where that. >> leads. >> and we will. >> have much more of morning joe weekend right after this break. >> are you. >> overwhelmed with identity. >> management in the context. >> of. >> omnipresent threats to. >> your organization? >> hi. >> so no. one knows what that means. >> what's happening? >> just explain. i want to help secure digital identity. keep it simple. >> like what?

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that's what you chose to ask it? i had other things planned. ask how to get up to one thousand dollars off the new samsung galaxy s25 ultra with xfinity mobile. with the formula from eli lilly. see if you qualify at koco-tv. >> we saw elon musk take kind of a powerful role. did anything about how he wielded his power surprise you? do you not need a katrina level type of response that is rebuilding to make sure it won't happen again? you've obviously made a decision to resign. are there any lessons that can be learned as you're talking to members of your congregation, what do you tell them about how to stand up for their own moral beliefs, but still find grace in this moment? >> the republican led house has passed. >> the lincoln riley act, a strict immigration detention bill. >> named for a 22 year old

georgia nursing 22 year old georgia nursing student murdered last year by an undocumented immigrant. >> the legislation. >> targets undocumented. individuals who commit crimes and is. expected to become the first bill signed into law by president trump in his second term. the house passed the bill to 63 to 156, with 46 democrats joining every republican in support. the senate passed the bill on monday. >> by a vote of. >> 64 to. >> 35. >> which included 12 democrats, among them senators gary peters, jon ossoff, jeanne shaheen and mark warner, all of whom are up for reelection next year. the act requires ice to. take custody of and detain undocumented immigrants who are charged, arrested or convicted of committing. acts of. >> burglary. >> theft, larceny or shoplifting. the venezuelan citizen, who was found guilty of

kidnaping, assaulting and murdering riley while she was out for a jog near. >> the university of georgia. >> was in the u.s. illegally. he had been cited for shoplifting by a georgia police department, but ice did not issue a detainer for him, and he was not taken into custody. so this is one of the first pieces. >> of. >> legislation passed, joe. >> right. and again, this is where we're talking about signal versus noise, performative acts versus actual actions that, that, that that are going to be impactful. this is this is obviously david drucker, something that the overwhelming majority of americans support. i think you go all the way up into the 80s. there are some people that that suggest it goes too far. but even that argument you're getting into the old broken windows argument about, like, for instance, rudy giuliani and police officers going after, in some cases

shoplifting, that when they go after the smaller crimes, that leads to larger crimes. and, you know, right now in 2025, the overwhelming majority of americans support this act. and it's one of the reasons why, when it passed, it passed with strong bipartisan support. >> yeah. look. >> if you want to, you know, try and understand one of the reasons why donald trump was sent back to the white house after, you know, everything that he said and did during his first term and in the aftermath of his first term, you don't have to look any farther than how, you know, president biden and the views of so many voters mismanaged border security. and this is just not complicated, joe. right. i mean, some things take political explainers. and, you know, we've got to say, you know, point a to point b to point c, and that that, you know, explains why why things happen. people of all political backgrounds, even if they draw different conclusions on exact policy prescriptions, are

probably going to tell you that if you're in this country illegally and you commit crimes, that shouldn't happen, and the government ought to do something it,articularly when it becomes an issue of public safety concern for so many voters. and so you saw the political marketplace at work here with democrats in the senate, where this needed 60 votes, participating with republicans to advance this legislation. it was, of course, going to clear the republican house and the number of democrats in the house that voted for this wasn't inconsequential, but it's the senate that really tells you what's happening, where you have democrats up for reelection in 2026 that help make sure this is law. and one thing that i'd add, guys is if the president, the new president, wants to have a real impact on immigration policy, it's going to happen through legislation like this versus executive orders, which are ephemeral, exactly. reversed when the next president takes office, particularly if that president is a democrat and they take issue with some of the things that the president, current president is doing on immigration. >> all right. and, david, we.

>> actually. >> saw that with joe biden. you know, think about all the executive orders that joe biden signed to reverse what donald trump put into effect. and donald trump spent his first day in office reversing so many of those. i mean, this is so key that that, again, there's a lot of performative actions over the past several days, there have been some things that we can talk about in a second. there have been some also some some things that are going to have a significant impact on this country. but if you're going to change immigration in particular, unilateral acts are are only going to change things so much. it's legislation like this that actually is going to bend history. >> correct. and president trump actually understands what he's doing this time around. you may disagree with him, but when he came into the presidency the first time, he barely understood how congress works. and i mean that at a very basic level, just

understanding the process, let alone do you get what you want or not. this time, he understands the process. he understands, as presidents before him did, how to exert executive authority. that may be questionable, but presidents are never shy in using every piece of authority that they may or may not have, which stands in so different to congress, which is happy to give power away to the executive and judicial branches. also, i think president trump has more latitude this time. whatever people thought about the border, and there was a huge concern about the border in 2017 as he entered office in that first term, given how things went for most of the biden administration, president trump has more political latitude. i believe in the country to be aggressive in how he brings the border and immigration, both legal and illegal, under control. >> up next, we'll speak with democratic congressman jim clyburn about how the democrats in congress are responding to

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to work together moving forward. do you still consider that possible? >> well. >> thank you very much for having me. it has got to be possible. you know, i am from south carolina. my senior senator, lindsey graham. you've had him on this morning. he has a very good relationship with the new president. >> the old now. >> new president. >> i have a. >> very good relationship with lindsey, and i am hopeful of. >> having discussions with. >> him as to how we can keep. >> this country. >> moving forward. you know, i listened yesterday. i was there for the inauguration, and the president invoked martin luther king jr. who life we. were celebrating on yesterday. but he talked about the dream, you

know, in spite of last sunday's scripture lesson on in galatians six nine, i'm growing. >> a bit. >> weary of the dream. i'm a bit interested in some realities here. and martin luther king jr. several months before that, i have a dream speech. i was sitting in the birmingham city jail and he wrote a letter on that day, and he said in that letter that he was coming to the conclusion that the people of ill will in our society was making a much better use of time than the people of goodwill. and so i want to see us look at king's letter, exactly what was on his mind when he had time to reflect while sitting in that jail and begin to respond to king's notion that we've got to make a much better use of time, and that the people of goodwill need to come together and start

working on behalf of this great country, which is great, but we've got to make this country's greatness accessible and affordable for all of its citizens. and so i am up for doing that. i want to work with my senator, both of them to do that. i saw thom tillis, our senator to the north. i heard his comments. we need to think about our children and our grandchildren, and think about what kind of country we want to leave for them, and we certainly don't want to leave for them. a country with disrespect and regard disregard for law, for the law, and for this country's greatness, that is not going to get us there if we continue the kind of rhetoric. last night, the inaugural speech was not wasn't too bad. last night. those speeches. >> were horrible. >> we heard.

>> donald trump after. >> his inaugural speech, go. >> down stairs. >> and talk. >> to some of his most loyal supporters, saying a lot of things, a lot of conspiracy theories, bringing that up in the middle of it. he talked about he said that he had spoken to chuck schumer and said, they have got to figure out how to come together and work and pass legislation. and i'm curious, what where are there some possibilities for that sort of legislation where even after last night, which i think most americans, i believe most americans would be shocked by, but but what what's what's legislation that democrats and republicans can work together on and pass? >> well, you've mentioned already that the white house is talking about doing some real

infrastructure programs that need to be done in our communities. we've done a whole lot for broadband internet. we've done a whole lot to repair bridges and widen roads, but we have not done enough with safety and security. things like the infrastructure for water, safe drinking water, the infrastructure that's needed to be put in place for the energy that we need to have going forward, not just for industrial needs, but for people's personal needs. making sure that people can afford the greatness of this country. you know, people need to have affordable energy needed to have affordable housing. people need to have affordable education. that is what makes for a great country. make it affordable, make it accessible. it's no need to have all of these great things. you talk about how good our health care

system is. can everybody afford it? no. if you're going to roll back the affordable care act, if you're going to get rid of the $35 per month insulin. my late wife has suffered from diabetes. she fought it for 30 years before succumbing. five years ago. i saw her insulin deal six, seven and $800 a month. she was a full shot a day diabetic. now she had. insurance and it's fine. but for those people who do not have insurance, capping their insulin at $35 a month, those senior citizens was a godsend for them. we don't need to have our senior citizens rationing their health care, cutting pills in half because they cannot afford it. insulin. we got it. the rights to it for $1. but now we are letting big pharmaceutical companies take

advantage of that. these are the kinds of things we can work with the president on. if we can get good health care for everybody. don't tell me that you are against the affordable care act and not showing me what you are for it is there deeds? matthew, the seventh chapter. you have been talking religion here this morning. distrusted preachers. son of a fundamentalist minister. go to the seventh chapter of matthew and let's talk about deeds and stop the words. that's how we know people by their deeds. >> coming up, the president's announcement about an investment in project stargate, our friends andrew ross sorkin and stephanie ruhle will join us to explain just what that is. morning joe just what that is. morning joe weekend. we'll be after last month's massive solar flare added a 25th hour to the day, businesses are wondering "what should we do with it?" i'm thinking company wide power nap. [ employees snoring ] anything can change the world of work.

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>> enter a. >> cease fire. >> in the. >> nation's capital. >> philadelphia and. >> el paso. >> the palisades. >> from msnbc world headquarters. >> msnbc premium gives you early access and ad free listening to rachel maddow. chart topping series msnbc original podcast's exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> president trump. >> announced a joint venture with openai, oracle and softbank. >> to invest. >> billions in ai infrastructure in the u.s. dubbed stargate. the project will be funded by an initial 100 billion from the three companies, who could eventually. invest up to half $1 trillion over the next four years. >> data centers. >> included in the venture are already under construction in texas, with ten being built so far. however, elon musk responded to an openai post on

x, writing that three tech giants involved do not have the money. joining us now, we have nbc news senior business analyst and host of the. 11th hour, stephanie ruhle, and from the world economic forum. >> in davos, co-anchor. >> of cnbc's squawk box and a new york times columnist, andrew ross sorkin. andrew, i'll start with you. what's going on? >> well. >> this is a big deal. >> if. >> in fact, they do have the money. $100 billion is a lot of money, and it really could change the dynamic shift, the whole ai universe. it would take openai, which is clearly. the leader. >> today. >> and put them on an even greater path to the supremacy, if you will, of this technology. what's interesting to understand about it is it does also shift the relationship to some degree between openai and microsoft. they've had a very close partnership exclusively, insofar as openai was exclusive to what's called the azure

platform, which is something that microsoft has. and now it means that they are going to be able to be on other platforms, in this case, larry ellison, who's a friend of the president's. i will make one. maybe it's a political point, but it's worth pointing out. the press conference yesterday. sam altman standing behind the presidential seal with president trump standing next to him. think about that just for a moment. and the reason i say think about that. sam altman is elon musk's nemesis, and there has been a long conversation about whether we thought that elon musk was going to have influence over president trump, and he was going to use his influence to thwart and hurt his enemies. and i think it was a surprise. i don't know if it's surprising or not, but i think it was remarkable. just worth remarking upon that sam altman and president trump standing there next to each other. i should also mention sam altman spent $1 million during the inauguration. but the truth is that clearly the president, president trump behind this in a major way. and i think that that

has a lot of folks sort of looking at this, trying to understand what it all means. well, i think that's a very important point. and, steph, i mean, we have seen if you read the wall street journal, if you read the financial times, if you read bloomberg, we've heard about this rivalry for quite some time. and elon musk using his position close to donald trump to sort of box sam altman out. so yeah, i would say that is news. i'm not i don't think we overread it. but certainly all of the words that were written, talking about how musk is going to be able to keep altman away from the incoming president, disproven yesterday in that press conference. so i'm just saying when i saw it, i was like, whoa, that's news. >> i think it's less about sam altman and it's more about donald trump saying, i'm the daddy here. there's only one president. remember, over. >> the last few weeks. >> as elon musk has been glued to donald trump at mar-a-lago,

going to have an office just potentially down the road from the. >> white house. >> this is donald trump. potentially putting elon musk on notice and saying to. the world, there are not co-presidents. i'm the only one in charge. don't get too comfortable here, elon. sam's around the corner. but i would say elon musk saying i don't even think they have the money. this is something important. it's not that joe biden was anti-ai he wasn't. his executive. >> order was extensive. >> he talked about it in his final remarks. jake sullivan did, too. one of the things that the former white house acknowledged, they didn't have the money yet. so donald trump gets in the job, pulls out all the regulations. right. that's the regulations, the sort of guidelines that joe biden had in his executive order. and now these companies are going, yep, without the rules we're in, sir. so i just think what trump announced yesterday kind of encapsulates the two administrations that. >> joe biden. >> was potentially too careful to, to bound by so many restrictions that some would say

flew in the face of innovation. and donald trump rolls in and is like, money or not, i'm announcing it. we're doing it. animal spirits. let's go. it was the two of them in a nutshell, are. >> animal spirits. let's go. there has to be a plaque put up somewhere in the white house on that. andrew, i'm going to ask you about the lead editorial in the wall street journal. but first i just want to tell our viewers we skipped over the bottom one, which is trump pardons the january 6th cop beaters law and order back the blue. what happened to the gop? and they end by quoting a republican who said, this is third world, third world style anti-american anarchy. that was marco rubio. now mr. trump, secretary of state. he was right. what happened that day is a stain on mr. trump's legacy. by setting free the cop beaters, the wall street journal says the president has another. now to the one at the top. and this is fascinating. they talk about

trump gives tiktok an illegal amnesty. the tech firm that hosts the app are putting their shareholders at risk. tiktok must sever all ties with bytedance and china, according to a law that's passed. mr. trump can't suspend laws like an english king before the 1689 bill of rights, says the wall street journal editorial page. congress is a co-equal branch of government, not a subsidiary of the president. members passed a law finding tiktok collected user data that would let beijing spy on americans. yet now he's canoodling with ceo xiaoxi zhou, who was spotted at the inauguration next to tulsi gabbard, the president's nominee for director of national intelligence. of all people. talk about a horrible signal. mr. trump is relaying that he puts pleasing china's xi jinping above a law passed by congress. so let's talk about this, this this tiktok executive order.

what's the long term impact of this going to be? because the belief has been in the media. you've just heard, well, we can wave this magic wand and suddenly he can change the law. the wall street journal editorial page rupert murdoch's paper says, not so fast. he's not a king. well. >> look, i it's a. >> major issue. it's a major. there's two issues. there's a national security issue and there's a legal issue. on the legal side. >> there will. >> be lawsuits brought against trying to undo or even create this 90 day suspension where some kind of negotiation happens. because if you look at the language, it's unclear whether the president really has the right to do that. and i think that will play itself out in court unto itself. i think there's a secondary question, and maybe it's really the primary question is, is tiktok a national security threat or not? i talked to ro khanna, a congressman, ro khanna, today, and one of the things he said that was fascinating was the idea, actually, that the

information that had been provided to congress did not actually show demonstrably, that the company was being used by the chinese government, that prospectively it might be a threat in the future, but that some of the language that we've heard from congress and some of the language we've heard from washington was used almost as a campaign. and now there's going to be people i know who are going to say, you know, they think china is dangerous and therefore they think tiktok is dangerous. i'm not going to dispute the prospect of that. but i do think there's some real question marks as to whether this is a national security threat or not. trump was one of the first people to ever raise it, by the way back the last time he was president. and so i think we're going to have to actually try to figure out, is it a threat or is it a threat? because, by the way, if they are going to split this thing up, you know, he says 50% of the companies could be owned by the us, 50% by china. i don't even know what that means. but then you have to believe it's not a security threat. all of that doesn't totally make sense. one note, by the way, bytedance, the company that owns the that owns

tiktok, is actually owned in large part by many u.s. companies already. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin live for us in davos. andrew, thank you so much, stephanie. last word on this to you. >> listen, when you when. >> you look at this. >> you just have to say which is it donald trump. you want us to buy the panama canal because you're upset about china's control of it. but tiktok, which you know, and he will say certainly helped him get elected. he loves tiktok nation. he's okay with it. what the government needs to do if tiktok is a national threat, they need to convince. >> the american. >> people of that, right. the american people already don't trust government and they're saying, listen, doordash, i've already given it to mark zuckerberg. i've given it to elon musk. we have to convince them donald trump is making a move like this, and that tiktok universe is saying, you're my boy. you protected us from from from government overreach. this is about politics, which he's good at, and national security, which is our priority. >> our next. >> guest here is examining how a 1972 party attended by then presidential candidate shirley chisholm, changed politics as we know it. msnbc's juanita

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like a son. i bet. >> everything on him being locked away forever. >> i stand. >> before you. today as. >> a. candidate for the democratic. >> nomination for. >> the. >> presidency of. >> the united states. of america. >> nearly 53. >> years. >> ago, democratic congresswoman shirley chisholm. did what no black woman had ever dared before. she launched a run for president of the united states, challenging all unwritten. >> rules of. >> sexism and racial inequality that gripped america in the 1970s. it was that daring mindset that drew superstar diahann carroll to the campaign. carroll was. >> a leader. >> in her, a legend in her own right as an award winning actress, and the first black woman to star in her own. television series. the new book, entitled a more perfect party the night shirley chisholm and diahann carroll reshaped politics, explores how carroll

used. >> one fabulous. >> hollywood party to help grow chisholm's campaign, and the author of that book, msnbc political analyst juanita tolliver joins us now. juanita, tell us about the title, the timing and. the message of the book. >> the title. >> all harkens. >> back to the. >> power and the convening power. >> of. >> two black women who knew what it was like to carve through the steel. of discrimination of. >> of racism. >> and sexism. and in that right, both diahann. >> carroll and shirley. >> chisholm were. kindred spirits, and diahann carroll didn't hesitate to support chisholm's campaign. and what makes this party powerful is because it came at a time when chisholm was being dismissed and denigrated by members of the press, by political leaders, including leaders within the democratic party, who did not see value in what she was doing. but carroll saw the power. and possibility of what it meant to. >> break the ranks. >> to take. >> it. >> further, to chart. >> a new path similar. >> to what they've done in their

respective careers. >> and what i. >> appreciate most about this elegant, lavish party was how. >> it brought together. it brought together. >> people. >> you would never expect to share. >> space from. music industry icon and legend berry gordy rubbing. shoulders with revolutionary activist and co-founder of the black panther party, huey newton, or oscar award winning actress goldie hawn. >> those people came because. >> diahann carroll. was exposing them. >> to the power and. >> possibility presented within chisholm's campaign and. her policy ideas. and by being in that shared space, they. represented the coalition that chisholm was working to build, as imperfect as it was. >> and that's how i. >> structured the book, to really break. >> down the power that individuals have and can. >> seize in this. >> moment, because the playbook still applies. the people have the power. >> i appreciate your previous segment talking about oligarchs, but the reality is their riches come from the people. >> and so. >> one of the things i imagined shirley chisholm would do in response to this moment is emphasizing the need to build community as the sole way

forward, and the power of the people to do just that. >> simone. >> you know, juanita. >> congratulations on the book. you conclude in this book that there are surprising parallels to our current electoral reality. what are some of those parallels for folks? >> well. >> i think about how 2024 saw fractures within the democratic party and their coalition, whether that was individuals staying home, voting for. >> a third. >> party, or choosing to support. >> donald trump. and i think the parallel. >> here is that people felt disillusioned and. disaffected to the point where they didn't think the leaders of the democratic. >> party were representing their interests. i think. >> that also comes up, as we know. >> democrats are about to try to select. >> a new leader of that party. >> and shirley. chisholm reflected a bold leadership because, simone, earlier you talked about. >> leaders kind. >> of. bending to. >> the will of this moment. but this is a moment where power. is critical. >> and reminding. >> the public of their role. >> in building that power through. >> these coalitions. i think, is the only way forward. >> the new book, a more perfect

party the night shirley chisholm and diahann carroll reshaped politics, is on sale now. author and msnbc political analyst juanita tolliver, thank you very much. great being on. congratulations on the book. >> don't go anywhere. we have a second hour of morning joe weekend on this sunday morning, weekend on this sunday morning, coming up right the average dog only lives to be ten. that's ten birthdays, ten first summer swims, ten annual camping trips. at the farmer's dog, we don't think that's long enough. that's why our freshly made food comes pre-portioned just for your dog. because a dog at a healthy weight could live a longer, happier life. [dog barks] ♪♪ >> 20s a week to lose 20% of

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weekend. let's jump right back into a few of the important conversations we had over the past week. eugene robinson has a new column in the washington post on what he calls the real reason trump wants to end birthright citizenship. and gene writes in part, quote, president donald trump's executive order purporting to abolish birthright citizenship is unambiguously and profoundly racist. we can conclude only that this is the whole point. the constitution, the supreme court and congress have taken race out of the question of who deserves to be a us citizen and who does not. trump wants to override all of that. he wants to arrogate to himself the power to decide whether a child born here is an american. he may not ultimately get his way, but we all get the message loud and clear. and peggy noonan has a new column in the wall street journal about

president trump. peggy writes in part, quote, he is going to utterly dominate our brain space. he is a neurological imperialist. he storms in and stays in his public self. joe biden asked nothing and gave nothing. mr. trump demands and dominates. attention must be paid. democrats so far are nonexistent as the opposition in the long term. their passivity is a strategy. let mr. trump control immigration and kill woke. that will remove the issues people most hate about the democratic party. once he solves them, the issues are gone. in the short term, this isn't a strategy, but another indication of lostness. they don't know what they believe in and have no leader for four years. it's going to be nonstop, 24 over seven. rock em, sock em.

god bless our beloved country. history ahead, everybody hold on tight. joe. >> hold on tight. you know, john heilemann. peggy writes about something she knows very much about. we conservatives at the time. we republicans, we thought the cold war was the big issue. it is certainly what made my democratic family republicans in the late 60s. and then the soviet union disappeared. and christmas day, 1991, and republicans were still shocked in november of 1992 that bill clinton got elected. he got elected in part because there wasn't that soviet threat. i mean, we could debate for a very long time whether bill clinton of 92 would have got elected if

there was still the soviet threat. so this idea that peggy puts out there, that you take an issue off the table by completely co-opting it, if you're donald trump of the republican party and it's not an issue you have to talk about two years from now. that's actually a very, very salient and important point, because once a problem is gone, the american people move on to what's next. they did it in 1992 and elected bill clinton. >> yeah. i guess the problem here in this case, you're talking about immigration, joe, is that the specific problem or is it. >> the broader, the broader. complex of. >> of kind of woke issues? >> and immigration, i think mainly woke issues, dei issues, all of these issues that people say cost democrats the election in 2024. >> yeah, i think that that it's going to be there's not going to

be a collapse of the of the soviet union in the realm of. >> of culture. >> and i think it's it i get i think peggy's trying to make a point, which is the democrats don't have an answer for how to how to get into a better place. >> there's too much. >> i think her argument is that there's so much there's so much factionalism in the democratic coalition about this. there's still a woke wing. >> of the. >> democratic party. there's a more. >> centrist wing. >> and that what the democrats are effectively doing is saying, rather than kind of solving. >> our our. >> internal ideological. dispute on this, we're just going to kind of step back and let donald trump do what. >> he's. >> going to do. either the issue is going to go away or the issue is going to he's going to hurt himself with such a large swath of the american voters that it's going to rebound to us politically. i think that i. >> don't know. >> that the democratic party has a real strategy in that way, because i'm not sure the party has is of one mind about all this. but i do. >> think that. >> in a, in what the, the, the

increasing diversity of the american electorate, the way demography is changing the country is not going to decelerate over the next 20 or 30 years. it's only going to accelerate. and that doesn't mean any one particular thing. it doesn't mean democrats, people thought for a while, oh, the coalition of the ascendant democrats will dominate. and it doesn't mean that the backlash is going to dominate for the next few few generations. it is a fundamental fact, though, of our of our. >> social, cultural. >> and political lives. and unlike the collapse of the soviet union, it's not going to go away. and so i don't think either donald trump can take it off the table, nor do i think the democrats can take it off the table by just. >> throwing up. >> their hands and letting. >> donald trump. >> have his way. >> meanwhile. >> this morning, david brooks is writing. >> the. >> new york times about. >> the. >> next four years in a piece titled how trump will fail, highlighting many of the trump's cabinet picks, david writes, quote, they are self-identified disrupters. they aim to burn the systems down. disruption is fine in the private sector. if elon musk wants to. >> start a car.

>> company and it. >> flops. >> then all that's been lost is investor. >> money. >> and some jobs. but suppose you disrupt and dismantle the defense department or the judicial system, or the schools. where are citizens supposed. >> to go? >> as we've seen over and over again down the centuries, there's a big difference between people who operate in the spirit of disruption and those who operate in the spirit of reform. if i were running the democratic party. god help them. i would tell the american people that donald trump is right about a lot of things. he's accurately identified problems on issues like inflation, the border, and the fallout from cultural condescension that members of the educated class have been too insular to anticipate. but when it comes to building structures to address. >> those. >> problems, well, the man is just hapless and incompetent. so writes david brooks this morning in the new york times. and claire, that's one of the words we've heard again and again from people, even just in the last 24 hours talking about, for example, pete hegseth. he's a disrupter. he's going to come in and turn the department of

defense upside down.going to clean it up. he's going to streamline it. he's a man who knows the military. a lot easier said than done, of course. >> yeah. and listen, all respect. >> to peggy. >> noonan. >> but the death of. >> democratic party. >> is really. >> frankly, a nonstarter with me. there are plenty of strong leaders in the democratic party. and just because the first week to ten days of the trump administration has. >> not been house on fire. >> democrats kicking. does. not mean that the democrats are not going to. be prepared to show out this incompetence. and i think they will be. you know, just. >> look what's coming up, willie. >> they have. >> to find. >> $5 trillion in. >> cuts to. >> continue to. >> have the. >> tax cuts for the millionaires and billionaires. that's on the agenda right away. >> on top of that, elon musk. says he's going to find $2. >> trillion worth of cuts. if you look at the documents that are being circulated on. capitol hill. >> right now by the.

>> republicans, they're targeting medicare, they're targeting medicaid, they're targeting student loans. they're targeting all kinds of programs that if they think this is going to be a walk in the park with the american people, with the people that supposedly donald trump is there to help. >> you know. >> they set the stage. with the. >> trillion dollar. >> cast of characters behind him on inauguration day. >> that image. >> is not going anywhere. elon musk. as the president image is not going anywhere. and the republicans are going to have to fight that. and i think the democrats are going to be well positioned to. once again regain their footing, that they are for the folks that need the tax deduction. for their mortgages, that need the local and state tax deduction to make it all come out even at. >> the end of the year. >> that need. >> the help. >> on student loans, that need medicare. that's what's going to really going to be where the

rubber meets the road. >> and i think. >> everybody just needs. >> to hang on. >> a minute, take deep breaths. >> it's going to be fine. >> we have lots more to get to this hour. morning joe weekend continues after a short break. >> stay platinum hair. >> perfecting your swing is hard. >> nice shot. dad. oh, let me play. >> but replacing your windshield. >> doesn't have. >> to be. go to safelite. >> com and we can come to you. >> sick. >> our highly trained techs can replace your windshield where you are. even if that's right in your driveway. have a. >> good day. >> i love you. >> safelite makes it easy. >> go to. >> safelite.com and schedule. >> a replacement today. >> say it like we say. let me >> say it like we say. let me play. it's time. yes, the time has come for a fresh approach to dog food. everyday, more dog people are deciding it's time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the farmer's dog. made by vets and delivered right to your door

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talking to members of your congregation, what do you tell them about how to stand up for their own moral beliefs, but still find grace in this moment? >> former congressman and white house chief of staff rahm emanuel has spent the last three years in japan as u.s. ambassador during president biden's term, and he has returned stateside to a new reality in america. donald trump is back in the white house, and republicans are in full power across both chambers of congress. and democrats are still unsure of what message they. >> need to. >> unify the party. and rahm emanuel joins us now. it's great to have you back on the show, mr. ambassador. and i'm lookiato financial times magazine. you can't be lethargic against this guy. i think everyone is getting

their sea legs and trying to figure out how to move forward here. watching these nominations go through, watching republicans as they respond to donald trump's pardons of the january 6th rioters. and what advice would you give moving forward? >> yeah, well. first of all, you're not going to win. >> it just on the first effort. >> i mean. >> what i would focus on is the. >> long. >> term, which is not just this first week. and while i would oppose these nominations. >> for a series of reasons. >> the three issues i would focus on. number one, the secretary treasurer, in the testimony in front of the finance committee, said. >> he was against the minimum. >> wage in the very week in which. ceos are getting pay hikes, 30, 40%, he's. >> against the. >> minimum wage and. >> it hasn't been. >> raised in two decades. so that actually. >> three decades. >> so that is where i would go first and foremost. >> and hit. >> second, that the republicans are talking about. cutting health care. >> subsidies for. >> middle class, working class families to pay for a tax cut

for the wealthy. and third, well, while donald trump obviously talked about. fighting inflation, a tariff war with canada, all the energy, not all, but the bulk of the energy, oil and gas for the united states, for the midwest and rocky mountains comes from canada. you're going to see it at the pump immediately. go right to the economics. go right to the. core issues. >> you were. >> of course, ambassador. >> to japan until just very recently. let's turn. >> to has it. >> yeah, let's turn to that part of the world right now because we know, donald, president trump has threatened tariffs against china in recent, you know, coming up in a few days. at the same time he's talked to xi jinping. he wants to have a visit to china soon. it has been reported. there's also been what is your level of concern about some of the democratic rollback we've seen in that area? and do you think that trump foreign policy will be robust enough to the area that former president biden said that relationship, us and china is by far the most important of the next century? >> well, i have a fundamental.

principle about. >> the indo-pacific. >> it is. >> a home. >> game for china. it's an away game for the united states. and i hate using sports metaphors on big national security issues. but to understand this, and our allies japan, korea, the philippines, india, australia, new zealand, they level the playing field for the united states. you can't be a credible deterrent force from long beach, california in the indo-pacific, and you can't fight your adversaries and fight your allies. you got to pick. i happen to think our allies are tremendous resources for the united states. one of the things that china hates most is when the united states, japan and korea, under president biden aligned correctly philippines, japan, the united states aligned correctly. now, to their credit, i'll call it out. one of the first meetings secretary of state rubio called for was the quad, which is india, australia, japan and the united states, showing china. our allies stand with us. the isolated party in the indo-pacific is china. based on their actions, economic

coercion. wolf warrior, you sit there as all of a sudden level up with your adversary. your allies are going to have real questions about your staying power. and so we are stronger when china sees a united front. we are weaker when they see divisions with our own allies. and my concern with president trump is not that he has affinity for autocrats. stylistically, he actually sees the world like they do. he sees russia. you want ukraine, you want eastern europe. that's your area of sphere of influence. china, indo-pacific. he sees that with this whole move on greenland and panama, that these are spheres of influence. he has a strategic alignment with them that is fundamentally against america's interests. we have allies which are multiplier of force and deterrence and the credibility of our deterrence. and my concern is not what everybody else in washington writes, which is this idea. oh, his has stylistic affinity. no,

he is strategically aligned with them. and his comments about xi, his comments about putin as friends is actually running down our allies weakens the credibility of america's deterrence. you want to stop wars, as he says, and i take his word seriously. you do it with allies aligned with you, and they're ready to be aligned with america's leadership. >> ambassador. >> good morning. let's talk a. >> little domestic politics. as you know, many progressives, many democrats are dejected about what happened in the election. they fully expected that they would move forward with a president, kamala harris. but now we're four more years of donald trump. he won all the swing states, some of them by very narrow margins. you've been at the center of democratic politics for so long now as a congressman, as a chief of staff inside the oval. >> office. >> what is your message to democrats about not just how to handle donald trump, but how to get back on the horse and look ahead to the midterms, which really get underway about a year from. now in terms of campaigning. >> well, there's. a there's a long thing to unpack, so i'm not

sure we're going to be able to do it just here. but i would say one, you focus on donald trump. that's opportunities to kind of create a narrative. but two, focus on the american people, not just donald trump. and i think that one of the mistakes and for the party was that they became brain dead over the years because 20 years ago there was demographics as destiny. don't worry. the demographics are going to work for the democratic party. and intellectually, policy wise, we became brain dead. and i think the mistake to make is all we're going to do is focus on donald trump, which is where he wants you to focus and not focus on the american people. that's number one. number two, on on a your recruitment is going to be very important. the profile, the story of the candidates like we did in oh six like in zero eight, like 2018, their backgrounds in targeted districts have to tell the story of that district, not what the national democrats want. and third and foremost, look, we're going to have when we talk about kitchen table issues, we've got

to stop thinking that they're just economic. although those are important. they're also about schools, about public safety, about what's going on in the neighborhood. we had two democrats get elected president and reelected since franklin delano roosevelt, president clinton and president obama. president clinton ran on 100,000 community police officers. we became identified with defund the police. one of those worked both policy wise and politically. president obama was criticized for being the deporter in chief. and then there were a lot of other democrats who talked about free health care at the border. if you cross the border illegally, one of those have worked politically and be the right policy. we have to be where the american people are at their kitchen table. >> coming up, the president and ceo of the national urban league, marc morial, joins us with what civil rights groups are doing about president trump's order to eliminate di from the federal government.

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>> diversity organizations and civil rights leaders gathered yesterday in response to these new orders, holding a roundtable event at the national press club highlighting what they call the dangerous rollback of hard fought civil rights gains. joining us now, the president and ceo of the national urban league, marc morial. he led and moderated yesterday's event. so what was the response to the rollback and what's the plan moving forward? >> good morning. >> the response to the. >> rollback is that the. >> leaders there are unified. in saying, we will. >> resist and we. >> will pay any price, bear any burden, support. >> any friend. >> or oppose any foe to ensure that equal opportunity continues to be. >> the value. >> proposition and the law of the land. this is an attack on the last 70 years. this is an attack on a majority of

americans. who want. to be included in the economic mainstream. make no mistake about it. there's also an element, as somebody asked me yesterday, of political retribution and payback to those communities that may not have been supporters of the current administration and the new president. so we will resist what's on the table, how. >> to leverage. >> our consumer power, 5 trillion plus from all of the communities represented yesterday. how to think about litigation has already been a number of lawsuits that have been filed on the theory that the president cannot, by executive action, wipe out the civil rights act of 1964, wipe. >> out court. >> decisions that have interpreted that act, and wipe out. the commitment that this nation has had to equal opportunity. so we want those who've who've aligned with us in congress to certainly understand that we want those in the business community to understand the consumer power and the incredible potential of all of

the communities that simply want to be included in the mainstream of america. and let me address this mythology about merit. what dni says is give everyone with merit a chance. and i'll say this, mika, 81% of americans. support what i'm talking about. that's a harris poll from last year. so this is really a majoritarian move to protect equal opportunity. you could call it dni, you. >> could call. >> it inclusion. it is not about discrimination. it's about the eradication of historic discrimination. >> mark, there is so. >> much evidence now and data suggesting that more diverse leadership teams and. >> teams produce. >> better results. we know that, right? i know that because i do a lot of work on women in leadership. you know that from your perspective. >> as well. >> are you dismayed when you see how quickly american corporations, those major corporations, mcdonald's,

walmart. are matter, of course, are following donald trump's lead? and what will it mean for the us economy if they do so? >> well. >> i'm dismayed. >> i'm disappointed. and i've expressed. >> that to a number of executives. but i. >> also want to lift up. >> the large number of executives who've also shared with me that they remain committed. they will not. >> be. >> intimidated now. they're not in the headlines. many of them don't. but let me. >> encourage you to. >> take a look at what jamie dimon said at davos. he said, we're going to continue to reach out to black, hispanic, asian lgbtq communities because it's good for my business. >> it's a bottom line. >> issue and. >> it's a bottom line issue. and the size and the growth and the consumer. power of many of these communities is what i would encourage american businesses to think about. >> mayor morial, there was. >> a sense. >> that from. >> the election. that dei issues hurt democrats. >> that there's a sense that. >> that at. >> least a narrative.

>> that this. was a, that this is an issue for voters. i know congressman. >> richie torres was on. >> this show. >> recently and said, you know. >> nobody talks to him, comes up. >> and says, i'm really. >> worried about. dei issues. >> like. >> how do you beat. >> back the. >> sense that. >> this, that. >> that celebrating diversity. >> casting a wide. >> net as, as the. programs are rightfully described is. >> a is some. >> sort of. >> detriment to. >> democrats. >> hurts the democrats with who hurts. >> the. >> democrats with who? the issue is to not get caught in the. >> nomenclature of. >> dni, but to talk about american. >> values. >> and democrats need to do a better job talking about inclusion. equal opportunity as an american value from the founding of this country. the concept of e. >> pluribus unum equal. >> justice under the law. >> emblazoned on the. >> supreme court the civil rights. act of 1964. >> opening the doors. >> to women and other people of

color to be included in the economic mainstream. you got to get your messaging straight and not. >> get caught. in nomenclature. >> republicans have been good in attacking terminology. democrats need to get their act together when it comes to advancing values and having people understand what these values really. really mean. i had an opportunity to go to some of the very best schools in america the ivy league, georgetown university law center, because those. schools did recruit me, and. historically they had not recruited me. did i have merit? i was a great student and got out. >> of. >> those schools with good marks and have had a great and successful career. i'm an example, and there are many who. >> because quote unquote. >> equal opportunity open doors got a chance to achieve. that's what we're talking about. >> up next, elon musk biographer walter isaacson joins us with the potential conflicts of

interest musk's business ventures could pose as he continues to influence president trump's policies. that's trump's policies. that's straight ahead on morning joe despite being on an antidepressant, i was still masking my depression symptoms. my doctor said it could be because my antidepressant alone wasn't enough. so she recommended an add-on treatment. she recommended adding rexulti. when taken with an antidepressant, rexulti was proven to significantly reduce depression symptoms more than an antidepressant alone. so with my antidepressant, rexulti could provide a boost. elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke. antidepressants may increase suicidal thoughts and actions and worsen depression in children and young adults. call your healthcare provider right away to report new or sudden changes in mood, behavior, thoughts, or feelings, or if you develop suicidal thoughts or actions. report fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, which can be life-threatening; or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar can lead to coma or death; weight gain, increased cholesterol, unusual urges,

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call your doctor right away if you have new pain or tenderness, sores, ulcers or infection in your legs or feet. ♪ jardiance is really swell... ♪ ♪ ...the little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ msnbc daily newsletter. get the best of msnbc all in one place. sign up for msnbc daily@msnbc.com. >> breaking news. >> a fast. >> moving disaster. >> in california. breaking news israel. >> and hamas will. >> enter a. >> cease fire. >> in the nation's capital. >> philadelphia. >> el paso. >> the palisades. >> from msnbc world headquarters. >> so. >> walter. >> you you. >> you've written the biography on elon musk. you certainly have. you wrote the biography on steve jobs. you know, this

world. you have researched this world. you have reported on this world. you've lived in this world. i would love to hear your thoughts about what we saw yesterday, where. >> these tech. >> giants, these these people who basically run monopolies were seated in front of, you know, seated not only in front of future cabinet members, but also took the spots of governors of huge states who were put in a holding room instead of them. >> you remember back in the old days when we would parse the leadership of various countries by who got to stand where in the reviewing parade, and boy, you saw that where an. elon musk and a the tech bros and the tech billionaires were there in. >> front of. >> the commerce secretary and had the best seats. the interesting thing is that the democratic party has for a long time, in some ways, tried to

demonize billionaires. and now you have trump trying to canonize billionaires. and it's a big distinction in the party. there was a real shift this time around in which the tech bros and certainly john heilemann has covered them as long as i have. they shifted, especially the oligarchs there, and suddenly became part of trump. and musk did it a couple of years ago, and the others did. >> it a couple. >> of months ago. >> so, walter. >> let's talk about musk's growing role within the administration. reports are that he already has an office of the president email address, yet he seems to have won a bit of an internal struggle and helped push out vivek ramaswamy from this doge office. he's got an office in the eeob. he might get one on the west wing. what do you make of his? >> well, not only. vivek leaving because musk is not great at being a partner. >> with somebody. >> he tends to. >> be a control freak and in charge. but the main thing he did was he pushed aside steve bannon and that wing of the

populist part of the republican and maga movement party. i think bannon was the one who said, i'll have elon musk gone by inauguration day. and you certainly saw who got the seats on inauguration day. and i didn't see steve bannon there. so trump has made the. call that he's going to stick real closely with musk. and, you know, as you know from the book, chapter by chapter, he goes into each of these companies spacex twitter and turns it into x tesla. and he just slashes and burns as if he's got a machete. all rules, all regulations, all costs. and i think for the next 12 months, that alliance with trump is going to work and he's going to be doing exactly what that playbook shows he does. he's going to be trying to do it to the federal government. his problem is he doesn't own the federal government, so he's going to have to use his social media arrows to make sure he can beat back people in congress and in the bureaucracy who are going

to try to thwart him. >> hey, walter, i want to ask you another. >> question about. >> elon. >> who is. managed to. >> get himself some headlines. overnight when he appeared. >> at. >> that trump. >> rally last night. in washington. and twice enacted. >> what some. >> people see as a what they call the roman salute or a nazi salute. others say that they. >> that they think maybe. >> including the adl. >> think they well. >> maybe he. >> just got he. >> was overly enthusiastic. >> and got carried away. >> he seemed to be sort of saying he was. >> throwing his heart to the crowd. a lot of historians of fascism have. >> come. >> out and. >> said. >> no, this is a nazi salute. there's no doubt about it. and some american nazis have embraced it. some of musk's allies on the far right in europe have said. >> have claimed. >> it all. so i'm curious what you. >> think about that. >> controversy and on the basis of what you know about him, certainly. >> feel. >> free to offer your opinion. >> about what he was doing if you. >> want to. >> if you've.

>> seen the video. >> but but. >> whether that would be consistent with what. >> you know of elon. >> musk, a kind. >> of that. >> a fondness for a predilection for that kind of political symbolism? >> well, obviously he did not intend it to be a nazi salute any more than, i don't think, say, donald trump intended not to put his hand on the bible. it was gestures that he's made. i've seen all the time like that. so no, i don't think he intended. i mean, i'm sure he didn't intend it to be a nazi salute. >> still ahead, we'll speak with harvard professor arthur brooks about managing your emotions during this fraught political climate. morning joe. weekend will be right back. >> you make. >> good choices. it's a trait that runs deep. >> like to. >> step into big shoes. and still walk on your own path. >> with ambition. >> like that. >> you need someone. >> who. >> elevates advice. >> to a craft.

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don't take if allergic or have an infection. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what's yours. (♪♪) founder of the now infamous oath keepers, stewart rhodes, the third who was going to save america from the end of the world. >> the big lie is that there was some concerted plan near the capitol. it just wasn't. >> what it was becoming increasingly unstable. >> people are gravitating to him. >> like a son. i bet everything on him being locked away forever. >> in lafayette, louisiana, the unusually icy. >> roads had. >> drivers and even. >> weather reporters. >> on edge. john, you know, we've. seen our. fair share. look, look, there's somebody peeling out. >> watch out. >> watch out! john. see. >> this is something. >> we encourage. >> people not to do.

>> i don't. >> know how cool that guy thinks he is. i wish. >> that lafayette police. >> officer would roll. >> up on him and shut that down. hey, man, can. >> you. >> turn your. >> lights on and shut that down? >> unbelievable, bro. >> like. >> so that's the kind of stuff we don't love. >> to do. which is why. >> acadiana. >> at times. >> you wonder. >> why we may. >> be. standing in certain spots. just just not just not it, bro. and, you know, john's got a family. i got a family. we're all just trying to do our job. bringing you up to date. >> that was whack. >> i know. >> my. >> boy thought he was. >> cool, but i ain't rocking with it. >> super lame. anyway, let me chill out, boy. >> i tell you what, john. >> that. >> got me. >> hot, bro. >> that got me hot, baby. >> i wish you would roll back over here, man. >> we'll show them what's happening. i'm just kidding. anyway. acadiana. >> please be safe. >> we. can. we get. >> a therapist. >> to the corner of evangeline thruway and surry street. >> because we got a time bomb waiting to blow there. >> no, actually, a star is born. that guy was amazing. he was totally himself. i love it, but

it does seem like there are a lot of reasons to be a little stressed out these days. and it might be about the weather, climate change, and also maybe the election. a false report from the american psychological association found that americans were deeply concerned about the consequences of the 2024 election, with 70% of u.s. adults pointing to the presidential election as a significant source of stress. and for many americans, the bad feelings have persisted and in some cases, grown in the time since donald trump won back the presidency. but our next guest says it's normal to feel a sense of shock or sadness in the aftermath of an election that didn't go your way. joining us now, professor at the harvard, kennedy and business schools, arthur brooks. he's written 13 books, most with a focus on finding happiness and meaning in life. well, it's good to have you back on the show. >> good morning. >> to you. >> how are you? good. so what

are you thinking about this? i mean, there, especially with these survey results. how can people process, perhaps the feelings that they are having at this moment? >> well, people are having a. >> lot. >> of negative reactions to it and doing a lot of counterproductive things like ruminating on the election. >> how could it have. >> turned out differently, personalizing the election. catastrophizing the election. the truth is, if we look at it just in historical terms, if you didn't. >> like what happened. >> in. >> november. >> your time will come soon enough. i mean, these things just go back and forth and soon enough you'll be feeling victorious and the other side will be down in the dumps. >> this is really. >> a. much bigger opportunity for us to reflect on one of the why. >> it is that. >> happiness in the united states has. >> been ticking down over. >> the past 30 years. >> a big part. >> of it is that we're. >> actually not. >> tending to. >> our happiness. >> hygiene, the. habits in our in our local communities, in our in our families and the people around us. we're paying too much attention to what's going on far away. >> if you pay. >> attention and personalize. >> things that are far. >> away from you will be unto

you. if you pay attention to what's close to you, you have an opportunity to change things in a way that it will, that will, that will enrich your life. >> and this. >> is. >> what i'm telling people all the time. remember what matters. what matters is not what you're seeing on tv. watch less tv except morning joe. >> yeah. it's important. >> and what matters? your faith, your family life, your friendships, the meaning that. >> you get. >> through the work that you, that you do every day to earn your daily bread. >> these are the. >> things that really matter when we when we lose. track of this and we're paying attention to the. >> national elections. >> well. >> of course. >> we're getting depressed. >> no matter what. they're trying to make us. >> depressed and angry and fire us up. that's how you get eyeballs and viewers and votes and followers and we're the product. well, let me ask you, though, because there certainly seems to be it's well chronicled that this time around, you know, people who did not vote for donald trump have seemed like checked out. we've seen that in terms of viewership. we've seen that in terms of social media engagement, newspaper subscriptions, lots of metrics that suggest that. but is that what you endorse? like pretend that it's not happening, like

check out, but that that also leads to potentially a dangerous lack of civic engagement? yeah. >> one of the biggest problems that we have today. >> however, and this is a phenomenon that we've seen over the past ten years, is that people who would have been involved as good. >> citizens in their local. >> communities, volunteering, paying. >> attention. >> getting involved. >> in local. >> politics, are. substituting a new kind of behavior, which is being as. >> informed as possible about. >> national politics. >> being outraged at. >> the tv. at prime time. >> talking about. >> politics is not a substitute. >> for citizenship. >> it just isn't. and good citizenship is a responsibility of all. >> of us and by the. >> way, brings happiness. but just paying attention and being outraged is not citizenship and will not bring happiness. >> i'm not. >> talking about checking out. i'm talking about checking in to what really matters and getting involved in the things that you can affect. >> arthur. >> i first encountered you when you were the president of american. enterprise institute, one. >> of the. >> most powerful. >> think. >> tanks in the world. >> i like to think so. yes, exactly. >> and so that was such a hard charging political job.

definitely had, you know, a component to it that is so different, dramatically different from what you're doing now. how did you just switch off and. turn to this zen arthur brooks? >> yeah. >> i've done. >> this a bunch of times. i mean, early on the first 12 years of my career, i was a professional classical french horn player in the barcelona orchestra, believe it or not. and then i left and went to college and got my phd and became a behavioral scientist. and then i quit that and then went and ran a think tank for 11 years. and then i came back to becoming a scientist. >> and what happened. >> was i actually had an experience that i recommend to a lot of people. when you're thinking about making a change in your life, this is a process called discernment. and almost every religious tradition. i walked the camino de santiago, which is this 800 kilometer walk across northern spain, to discern what i wanted to do with the rest of my life. and i found, as i was thinking and praying, that i. wanted to dedicate the rest of my life to lifting. people up and bringing. >> them. >> together in bonds of happiness and love, using science and ideas. so i returned. >> to. >> my science roots. i went to

harvard, i started a laboratory in leadership and happiness. and that's what i write, speak, and teach about now. i talk about politics all the time, but i don't talk about how to win. i talk about how to love and how your political alignments and how your statements and how you can get involved, how it can enhance your life and enhance the lives of other people as well. >> what do. >> you think? >> and so what? >> you don't. >> want to completely. >> tune out to what. >> happened on the. >> national level? no. >> so what do you how do you tell people to. >> strike some. >> kind of balance? hygiene. >> okay. >> so let's. >> just. >> be practical. let's just. >> be. >> really practical. >> yeah. >> we need some data points. >> we need. >> a plan. >> so the. >> way. >> to be very practical about this is not do it all day long. what's happening is that you're actually affecting the neurochemistry. and inside your. >> head. you're affecting the. >> dopamine in your brain. you're going for. >> a. little hit. >> what's new? what can i learn? what will give me some satisfaction? it's like hitting a slot machine over and over again, or eating a brownie every half hour, or all. >> of. >> the destructive behaviors.

>> that actually are bad. >> for us. and so what i recommend is, okay, you want to be informed, you want to read political news, you want to watch political news. fine. one period during the day, during a very, very particular time. and don't look at it at all on social media. >> still ahead, we'll show you my sit down interview with academy award winning actress michelle yeoh, where we discuss joe's historic, lengthy career in hollywood. >> safelite repair. safelite replace. >> nobody likes a. >> cracked windshield. >> but at least. >> you can go to safelite. com and schedule a fix in minutes. and schedule a fix in minutes. go >> i want. >> one more. >> if you're over 50. imagine you could turn back the clock on. your stiff achy joints ten, even 20 years. imagine you could

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there's a. >> customer hoping for a word with you. >> bring him. >> what are you doing in my space station? >> i'm giving. >> you a chance to get. >> back in. >> on the. >> action on a galactic scale. >> that was a preview of the new star trek movie section 31. it stars michelle yeoh reprising her fan favorite role as philippa georgiou, who joins a secret division of starfleet. and while she's tasked with protecting the federation from disaster, this anti-hero must also face the sins of her own past. yeoh won an oscar for her role in everything everywhere, all at once, and then had a key supporting role in wicked. i sat down with the 62 year old earlier this week. did you. eve. at 20, imagine your career beyond the age of 50? did you think of it? did you picture it?

no. >> i actually never even thought i wanted to be an actress, to be honest, i wanted i had graduated and then during that year, my mom had entered me for miss malaysia. oh, yes, she signed the she faked my. >> fantastic. >> she thought, hey, you should try this. it's good. it's good for you. because i really wanted to, at the end of the day, have my own ballet school where i could teach little boys and girls. you know, about the love of dance, the love of ballet. so. but then when i went on to. to be miss malaysia, i learned a lot about my own country and be the ambassador. ambassador for malaysia. and i was offered to do a commercial in hong kong. you know, when, like you say, when you're 21, 22, right? yeah. like, why do you say no. right. >> exactly. >> yeah. so i went and i was offered a film contract.

>> amazing. >> yes. it was a don't know what i'm doing, but i'll say yes. >> and here you are. >> yes. >> busier than ever. how many years later? but you didn't imagine your career after 50 back then? you didn't think. >> of it? i don't think of. >> for me it was white space. i mean, i'm 57, but when i was 20, i definitely did not think i'd still be working in this business. >> but did you know what business you. >> i did, and i thought, i thought that i had maybe 20 years to get it all done. i thought at 40 would be done. >> you would what? would go on to something else? >> you would retire. it was all white space to me, or maybe even a question mark that i'd even be doing anything. that was the sort of perception that i had as a young woman. >> as for me, i did not think, i don't like to plan because i find that when that happens, you put so much parameters around things, right? you put the fence, the door is closed. what if i don't want to do that? that means i made a wrong choice, right? so i kind of leave the

doors, the windows, you know, the path open. as you grow older, what you find is other people keep telling you what you should be doing or what you shouldn't be doing. you know, as a woman, when you're in your 20s, you should start thinking about getting married. you know, finding the right guy, you know, starting a family. because if you don't do it by the time you're 30. tik tik tik tik tik tik. it's a geriatric pregnancy. and you go like, what? how can i be a geriatric at 30 something ridiculous. you know, it's like they keep reminding you. oh, you're 50. oh. you're 40. you can't do this anymore. 50. forget about it. and especially in this, the entertainment business, it seemed like as your numbers grow, it doesn't grow in the amount you get paid. it's like everything starts to shrink around you. like the roads get smaller. very soon you're relegated. okay? you're the mother. that's fine. if you're 50, if you're 60. grandma, those

are the only roles left. and nothing wrong to be a grandmother. so to. those who. >> say, oh, you're 40, you can't dot, dot, dot oh you're 50, you can't dot dot dot. michelle yeoh says, what? >> no, don't let anybody tell you what you can do. or especially people telling you you're past your prime, right? >> total. your oscar speech. >> yes. i love you know, as i'm getting there that i realized that was what was happening. you know, all the women are being told, oh, you're past your prime, you know, think of something else to do, you know, go behind the scenes. >> yes. >> and you're going like, why? why should you dictate what i want to do? what's my passion and what's my love and what i want to put out there? >> that's it for us this weekend. we're back tomorrow morning, bright and early at 6 a.m. for a whole new week of morning joe. good morning. it is sunday, january 26th. i'm alicia