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tv   Velshi  MSNBC  January 26, 2025 8:00am-9:00am PST

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be more about settling scores than about achieving policy goals. it began minutes after he was sworn into office on monday, one of the first executive orders trump signed on inauguration day instructed the director of national intelligence and the cia director to revoke the security clearances of 50 ex intelligence officials. all of those officials had previously signed an open letter back in 2020, cautioning that the allegations about hunter biden and the contents of his laptop bore, quote, all the classic earmarks of a russian information operation. end quote, the list of people whose clearances were revoked included prominent names like the former directors of the cia, leon panetta and john brennan, and the former director of national intelligence james clapper. all three men served in those roles under former president barack obama. but trump also revoked the security clearance of his own former national security adviser, john bolton, with whom he's had an acrimonious relationship for years. on top of that, the
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president ordered that bolton's secret service detail be pulled, despite the fact that officials have determined that bolton remains under threat from iran. i spoke to ambassador bolton in the last hour. here's what he said regarding the trump administration ending his security detail. >> i don't believe anybody is entitled to anything from the government, but if you're if you're going to allow people across the board really to be exposed to the seriousness of this threat without protection, it's an incentive for us adversaries to take advantage of it. and so, so now, having read the news that the coverage has been lifted, there's no question in my mind but that the that the that the actual possibility of them taking action is real. >> just to be clear, the actual possibility of them taking action is real means a possible personal assassination of john bolton. in addition to bolton, by the way, trump has also pulled secret service details
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for his former secretary of state, mike pompeo, and another former aide of pompeo's named brian hook, both of whom are also under threat from iran. and on friday, he also terminated security protections for anthony fauci, the former top government health official who led the country through the coronavirus pandemic and has faced threats for it ever since. when asked by a reporter on friday if he would feel responsible if something happened to either fauci or bolton, the president said no, he wouldn't. in his first days back at the seat of power, donald trump has used executive orders to lay out the groundwork for his future plans for retribution by opening investigations into his perceived political enemies. one executive order in particular, titled ending the weaponization of the federal government, stands out. it directs the attorney general and the director of national intelligence to review the activities of the previous administration to determine if political bias against conservatives played a role in any of its official actions. to some extent, this is similar to what republicans in the house
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have been doing for the past couple of years. in fact, the house could lend trump a helping hand in that respect in the years to come, especially as republicans continue to try to rewrite the history of the january 6th capitol insurrection. the president has granted clemency to every single person that the justice department charged with a crime in connection to the events of that day. and on wednesday, the speaker, mike johnson, announced that the house will create a new select subcommittee to investigate or in this case, reinvestigate, the events of january 6th. it will be chaired by the georgia republican barry loudermilk. it will exist as part of the house judiciary committee, which is chaired by the trump ally and ohio congressman jim jordan. in a statement, speaker johnson said, quote, house republicans are proud of our work so far in exposing the false narratives peddled by the politically motivated january 6th select committee during the 117th congress, but there is still more work to be done. we are establishing the select subcommittee to continue our efforts to uncover the full
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truth that is owed to the american people, end quote, the full truth that is owed to the american people because you didn't see with your own eyes what happened on january 6th. sadly, bennie thompson, there was no video. there was nothing to see. there were no trials. there were no judges joining me. now. what a terrible introduction, sir, is the former chairperson of the original january 6th select subcommittee, the democratic congressman bennie thompson of mississippi. he serves as the ranking member of the homeland security committee, i don't know. congressman, i'm from canada. we have a term for this. it's bs. we have investigated what happened on january 6th, and all that's happened is the people who were actually charged for being involved in it are no longer charged with being involved in it. >> well. >> you you're so correct. what people saw with their own eyes really happened. the people who attacked the law enforcement who were protecting the capitol, they really did that. they did it because donald trump weaponized the whole process and
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basically directed those people to go to the capitol and try to stop the orderly transfer of government. so what we now have is four years later, people who didn't cooperate with the investigation say, oh, we want to get it straight. that was an opportunity for everyone involved to participate. yeah, many of them chose not to. but the witnesses, we stand by their work and their testimony. we stand by the work of the committee. it is clear that donald trump wanted to have people to harm his vice president. they came to the capitol and said, hang mike pence. you saw bear spray. you saw every object imaginable being thrown at capitol police. and our first group of witnesses were people who were physically there trying to protect members
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of congress, staff and others from those insurrectionists who were breaking into the capitol. and so now he wants to with with his minions to go and try to rewrite history. but, you know, people saw it. they believed it. you can't attack the fbi and their credibility. and so what we have right now is the donald trump retribution process on steroids. and we just have to as people who believe in this democracy, at some point, we're going to have to start a forceful pushback and say, you can't do this to the greatest country known to man, but obviously he's the president and he's going to weaponize every opportunity he can to promote his retribution on those people
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for some way. and somehow that he sees that they didn't agree with him. >> what does that forceful pushback look like? and i mean that honestly, because i'm sure my viewers are all out there thinking, what do you do in the face of this? i spoke to john bolton an hour ago. he said he's very worried about the nomination or the, the, you know, of tulsi gabbard as dni, of kash patel at the fbi, because they've got these enemies lists of people that they want to go after. what does forceful pushback look like when the actual apparatus of retribution in the government is starting to move? >> well, the forceful pushback means that people of goodwill are going to have to start the process of standing up. you know, when you dislike a sermon preached by a bishop, you ask for an apology. you just disagree with the sermon. you don't. i mean, who are you lately? they are now directing the military not to teach. what
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happened to the tuskegee airmen? you know, that was a group of black patriots who wanted to learn how to fly a plane. and the only place they could do it was in tuskegee, alabama. and now somehow you say telling the truth is not good because i don't like it. and so we start looking at the process of, of weaponization and actually, again, trying to change history, all these things happen. i look at the fact that the. ig's of a majority of the agencies have summarily been discharged. that's an entity that we put in place at the congressional level to look and see how government is running and whether it's running consistent with what members of congress put together. and now all of a sudden, you say, i'm going to take these people out and put my people in who will believe what i say? >> yep. >> that's not the democracy that
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we've come to love and support. so all these things, ali, are just going to continue to move and move. and i was in conversation with people in california recently, and now all of a sudden you're going to tie voter id to helping a state that's being devastated by wildfires. now, if you tell me what's the connection between voter identification and helping american citizens in their time of need and disaster, you know, this is just not who we are, right? and now we see the raids occurring all over the country. and now i understand in some of the raids we're picking up american citizens. but the american citizens who are are not just white. they could be native americans, they could be hispanic americans. but you just
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summarily picking them up without any due process. so we're going to have to hang on. we're going to have to resist. but i'm optimistic that at the end of the day, people of goodwill will start pushing back, whether it's through the courts, whether it's through peaceful demonstrations. we just have to do it. >> we'll take that assignment. congressman, good to see you as always. thank you for being with us this morning. the democratic representative, bennie thompson of mississippi. all right. still to come, president trump has tried to convince crypto investors that he's a serious man and wants to take cryptocurrency to the moon. and then he launched a trump coin, a so-called meme coin with no real value other than making him richer. i'll explain what a meme coin is and why you should definitely stay away from them. plus, as we've been discussing, when president trump was inaugurated last week, he wasted no time in pardoning hundreds of january 6th defendants. msnbc's paula ramos was with a prominent member of the proud boys. the
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without the salon naturals price tag. herbal essences. clinically tested. >> my hair is. >> much stronger. >> and longer. >> i feel like. >> i'm a completely. >> different person. >> get growing. >> at nutrafol. com. >> peter beinart has lost more than a few friends. his new book, being jewish after the destruction of gaza, begins with a chapter titled a note to my former friend. quote, i think about you often and about the argument that has divided us. i know you believe that my public opposition to this war, and to the very idea of a state that favors jews over palestinians, constitutes a betrayal of our people. i know you think i am putting your family at risk. end quote. the next 120 pages or so
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are beinart's attempt at having another conversation with these friends about israel's war in gaza, about their shared deep jewish faith, about the future of israel and palestine. even in the name of the book, beinart has taken a risk. he does not want to dismiss the violence that hamas perpetrated against israel on october 7th, but he does seek to understand and contextualize it without justifying it, he says in his note to a former friend, quote, that's why i titled this book being jewish after the destruction of gaza. not being jewish actor after october 7th. i chose the former title because i know you grapple with the terror of that day. i worry that you don't grapple sufficiently with the terror of the days that followed and preceded it as well. end quote. indeed, beinart dives into the history of israel and palestine to chart a new way forward to pitch a vision for peace. among his evidence for what he calls is the what he calls the interconnectedness of jewish and palestinian safety is
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that over the years, palestinian support for violence is at its lowest. when belief in the potential of a palestinian state is at its highest, a situation that today is entirely inverted. fine art argues that the israeli government's well-documented repression of palestinian people has only strengthened the very militants that israel wants to destroy hamas. quote, when israel tells palestinians they'll remain subjugated no matter what they do, no military campaign against hamas offers any chance of lasting success, end quote. barnard also spends much time on the impact of hamas violence on israel, recounting stories from survivors of the october 7th attack. he contextualizes the israeli cultural response within the traumatic memories of violence from throughout jewish history. but beinart knows that the best chance of avoiding another tragic attack on israel is by guaranteeing the safe future of palestinians as well. and he knows from his own life that he would not have gotten to this position if he himself had not engaged in open dialog. quote,
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despite visiting israel-palestine since childhood, i didn't spend any meaningful time with palestinians there until the fourth decade of my life. conversation by conversion, conversation by conversation, palestinians helped me think differently about what it means to defend my people. they helped me redefine jewish honor. they changed my understanding of what it means to be a jew. joining me now is peter beinart. he's the editor at large at jewish currents, an msnbc political analyst and author of the forthcoming book, being jewish after the destruction of gaza. peter, thank you for being here. we have had some tough conversations in the last few years, not between us. just the topic is tough. yeah. and, and but this one is the hardest. we've all lost friends over this. and it hurts me personally to have lost friends over this. because all i want is for people to live in, in peace. and that's all. all you want to. but you didn't come to help the way the methodology overnight. you
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didn't come to your conclusions that are written in this book overnight. this has been a real evolution for you. >> yes. >> over many decades. >> really. >> i mean. >> i was. >> raised to see the jewish people. >> as a family. it's a central. >> metaphor in in jewish tradition. and it's still the way i see the jewish people. and to imagine that your family is doing something that's profoundly wrong is very, very difficult, very painful, and something that people in that extended family imagined family generally don't like to hear. it was really only in my 30s when i first started spending time in the west bank with palestinians, that i thought, oh my gosh, i've lived my whole life with this deep connection to israel. but i've never understood what israel meant for palestinians. and this reality is more brutal than i ever imagined. and i hadn't really been recognizing the humanity of these people. i'd always been thinking about them as a kind of faceless, dangerous mass that threatened us. and so that was the beginning of a of a journey that led me to a place i didn't think
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i would go, but that i hope other jews will go as well, because something has gone profoundly wrong when the leadership of our community can justify the destruction of an entire society. and it also puts us at risk, because the safety of israeli jews and the safety of palestinians can't be disconnected. >> i have no view on what people should do to be identified as a jew or a christian or a muslim, but you are observant and religious, and while that shouldn't count for more than anything else, it does allow you to participate and to have conversations like this one that you had in this book, using a language that that may access people better. >> yeah, it's a tricky thing, right? because one could legitimately say, why are we talking about jewish identity? it's palestinians in gaza who are suffering this overwhelming destruction. and you and i both know we don't have enough palestinians represented in american public discussion. edward said famously said palestinians lack permission to
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narrate. that's still true, but it seems to me that my role, if i have any, in a much larger struggle for mutual liberation of both of our peoples, is to speak to my community and try to help people undergo the kind of transformation so that we can be partners to palestinians in their struggle for freedom, rather than having these jewish leadership organizations that end again and again and again call good people anti-semites when they simply talk about the human reality that they see palestinians experience. >> what can you say to people who say that your your attempt to analyze and contextualize why october 7th happened and why that deep frustration exists amongst palestinians is an attempt at justification? because i've never actually heard you justify october 7th or the killing of anybody. >> god forbid that i would justify something like this. i was deeply, deeply affected and remain deeply affected by the
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incredible trauma of the horror of october 7th. but if you don't contextualize things, you can't stop them from happening again. let's think about nine over 11. the horror of nine over 11, right? part of the reason that the united states responded badly to nine over 11 killed a lot of innocent people and didn't make us more safe, was we didn't actually have a good conversation about the reason that this evil thing was done. what, october 11th was evil, but it was evil in response to oppression. i know a lot of people don't want to hear that, but if you look at the situation of people in gaza, it's called an open air prison by human rights watch, the united states, and said it was considered unlivable by palestinians before october 7th. if you don't understand that, you're going to keep repeating the same mistakes. you're going to respond to this with massive military force and you know what you're going to do? you're going to create more desperate, furious people who've seen their families killed, and they're going to try to attack you again. everyone is going to be
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less safe. >> what's i know it's not fully out yet, but have you heard from everybody you're going to hear from about this, or are you ready for another wave of people who are going to call you names? >> you know, there will be people who are upset about it. i'm used to that over the years. but honestly, the things that have the deepest effect on me are particularly when i hear from younger american jews, because, as you know, there's a profound generational divide in our community. the jewish leadership doesn't like to talk about it. but i know so many young american jewish kids who say, i don't feel comfortable going to my synagogue. i can't talk to my rabbi. i can't even talk to my parents. i was raised to believe that our tradition values the infinite dignity of all life. i was raised to believe that our tradition prizes fierce and open debate. i don't see that community around me. i'm writing for those people because they we need a moral and spiritual revival in the american jewish community. if we're going to be partners to palestinians in their struggle for liberation. >> well, you write all the time and you write stuff that we rely upon. but i'm glad that you have
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put so many of these important thoughts into this book. it's good to see you as always. my friend peter beinart is the editor at large of jewish currents, but he is the author of the new and important book, being jewish after the destruction of gaza. the book is available on tuesday. you can preorder it now. all right, still to come, msnbc's paola ramos has been following the trajectory of far right groups in america for years. on trump's inauguration, she met up with a member of the proud boys. he once told her that he regretted his involvement in january 6th. you won't believe what he told her. the second that he received her. the second that he received his pardon. [coughing] copd is an ugly reality. do you have his medical history? i watch as his world just keeps getting smaller. but then, trelegy helped us see things a little differently. with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. once-daily trelegy also improves lung function,
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issues like representative jasmine crockett, late night host seth meyers, former attorney general eric holder, and many more. why is this happening? listen now. >> let us pray for. >> our 47th president. heavenly father, we're so. grateful that you. gave our 45th and. now our 47th president a millimeter. miracle. we are grateful that you are the one that have called him for such a time as this. from the hilltops of new hampshire. let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of new york. let freedom ring. >> that was the reverend lorenzo sewell leading a spirited benediction at president trump's inauguration. he thanked god for the incoming administration and prayed that, quote, america would begin to dream again, end quote, which was a reference to the doctor martin luther king seminal i have a dream speech, which was heavily cited
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throughout pastor sewell's prayer. but it's what pastor sewell did after trump's prayer that's even stranger. >> i need you to do me a favor right now. i need you to go by the official lorenzo sewell coin. i want you to be able to see politics become manifest, not just in a way where we're praying over political gatherings, but where we're seeing us become the hands and the feet of the lord jesus christ. would you help me? >> yeah. that was the pastor hawking a meme coin that he signed his name onto shortly after giving donald trump's inaugural benediction. now, what is a meme coin, exactly? and as a serious business journalist, it pains me to have this conversation. but here we go. meme coins are a type of cryptocurrency that are typically inspired by internet trends. unlike other cryptocurrencies like bitcoin, bitcoin meme coins actually have nothing that drives their worth. they're not backed by anything. they serve no particular
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purpose. they're called meme coins because they have no underlying cash or intrinsic value. only internet hype can drive their price up or more likely, down. but nonetheless, more and more people are launching these meme coins, including pastors and the president of the united states. less than 72 hours before becoming president again, donald trump launched trump coin, which skyrocketed in value upon release, before shortly thereafter collapsing. a normal, legitimate company stock price is meant to increase if it brings in higher earnings. if you own shares in a meme coin, the only way to make money is by selling it at a higher price than you bought it for, with no intrinsic underlying value. which is why basically the only person who was going to profit from donald trump's trump coin is donald trump. 80% of the coin supply is owned by trump's affiliates, according to the company's website. trump coin's price has fallen since its launch, but it actually still has a market value of $5.8 billion, according to crypto.com, which is a
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cryptocurrency marketplace. without doing anything, he's netted $58 million just on transaction fees, according to the former coinbase executive and crypto analyst connor grogan, trump coin has all the makings of a classic rug pull. hoard the supply, raise the price, dump the investment and walk away with your cash. as the market bottoms out. and some members of congress are raising another concern. senator elizabeth warren and congressman jake auchincloss wrote a letter to the heads of the sec, the ftc and the treasury saying, quote, anyone, including the leaders of hostile nations can covertly buy these coins, raising the specter of uninhibited and untraceable foreign influence over the president of the united states, all while president trump supporters are left to shoulder the risk of investing in trump coin and melania coin. what? melania coin? yeah, that's right. first lady melania trump launched her own coin a day after her husband did. it dropped nearly 80% in value since it peaked on the 19th of
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january. now think about this the people most likely to spend real money on a digital asset that has no inherent value other than the president's name are going to be the president's biggest supporters. so if you're an average person looking to invest some of your savings, please don't be fooled by trump coin or anybody else's coin. this is not an investment. it's just another grift. and buying just another grift. and buying iwhen you really need to sleep. you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. for $19, we fired our old housekeeper. pomerleau tackled everything from our kitchen to our bathroom, all our laundry. you just pick a date, pick a cleaner, and enjoy a spotless house for $19. >> accidents happen everywhere
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>> role. >> did anything about how he wielded his power surprise you? do you not. need a katrina level type of response that is rebuilding to make sure it won't happen again? you've obviously made a decision to resign. are there any lessons that can be learned as you're talking to members of your congregation, what do you tell them about how to stand up for their own moral beliefs, but still find grace in this moment? >> this morning, israel is blocking thousands of palestinians from returning to northern gaza, as it accuses hamas of breaking promises that were set in this fragile ceasefire deal. as part of that agreement, israel was meant to start letting displaced palestinians return to their homes in northern gaza yesterday. but israeli officials say hamas has violated the cease fire by changing the order in which it has released hostages. local officials say. overnight, israeli forces opened fire on
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crowds that were waiting to return to northern gaza, killing two and wounding nine. four israeli hostages, all female soldiers, were freed by hamas yesterday. israel in return released 200 palestinian prisoners. but israel says another hostage, this woman, arbel yahud, a female civilian, was supposed to be released before the soldiers. last night, president trump suggested that gaza's population should be resettled elsewhere, saying, quote, you're talking about a million and a half people. we should clean out that whole thing, end quote. we should clean out that whole thing. the president also said he would like to see egypt and jordan take in displaced palestinians. he planned to talk to the egyptian president today. he's already received a message from the jordanians to say that's a nonstarter. joining me now is nbc's daniele hamamdjian in tel aviv. daniele, good to see you. there is some brand new reporting about arbel. yehuda, the hostage that israel wants released. you and i talked a bit about this yesterday. do we know what her status is, who's
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holding her and what's supposed to happen next? >> well, the understanding. >> is that islamic jihad is holding her. and in the past few minutes, an informed source with islamic jihad has confirmed to nbc news that 29 year old arbel yahud is alive. she is in good condition and she will be released before next saturday, the third round of hostages for prisoner swap. this would be a midweek hostage release, which is not part of the terms of the deal. and the deputy head of islamic jihad is also quoted as telling al jazeera in the past few hours that in exchange for yahud, 30 palestinian prisoners would be released. as you know, there was confusion as to the status of the her status. islamic jihad had argued that she was in fact a soldier, not a civilian, and that they should be getting 50 palestinian prisoners in exchange for her release. but it now appears as
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though it's going to be 30. so admitting, i suppose, that they were wrong and that she is a civilian now, just in the past few minutes, we've received this on the israeli side, the source familiar with the details, and i'm going to read this now that, contrary to reports, there is currently no agreement regarding the return of arbel yahud negotiations. this source says with the mediators are continuing, israel will not allow gazans to cross into northern gaza strip until the matter is resolved. now you've just showed those images. tens of thousands of people were expecting to be able to cross into northern gaza yesterday after the swap. they are still stranded. they spent the night there, according to the nbc news crew on the ground. some were even shot at by idf forces. one person has been killed. they want to go back now just to see what, if anything, is still standing, but potentially to also dig people from under the rubble. people who have gone
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missing and potentially family members. and so tens of thousands are still waiting there. and it's unclear to me if, if and when arbel yahud will be released, if the idf will then pull back and allow these people to go back north, because there is one other violation that israel claims hamas has committed here, and that is not providing the update. the condition, a status condition on the 26 remaining hostages in gaza. so we don't have an update on whether or not they're dead or alive. and they were supposed to provide that update on saturday. hamas has not provided that update. ali. >> okay. so a lot of a lot of moving parts. that's why we keep describing the ceasefire as as fragile. as of now, it's still underway. but there are there are some very serious bumps on the road here. danielle, thanks very much. we'll stay close to you on this, as always. nbc's danielle hamamdjian in tel aviv. we'll be right back. we got more. velshi after the break. >> safelite repair. >> perfecting your swing is hard. >> my shop had. oh, safelite
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week, she traveled to miami to attend a january 6th pardon watch party, where she met with the proud boys leader enrique tarrio, whose mother, as well as another member of the proud boys who received a pardon. >> by donald. >> john trump. >> do solemnly swear. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> this is a january 6th pardon watch party hosted in miami by january 6th rioter gabriel garcia. during donald trump's second inauguration, garcia gathered with his friends as they waited to see whether trump would pardon him. >> i think a lot. >> of people would. >> ask. >> why do. >> you deserve. >> to be pardoned? >> i've never been arrested in my life. >> i never did drugs. i never. >> held a gun. >> i paid my taxes and i deserve to be pardoned. >> some capitol. >> police officers. >> believe that pardoning. >> january 6th. rioters is. >> a betrayal. what do you think about that? >> beyonce keeps saying, oh, it was the worst day of my life. so why are you reliving your life selling books and selling t shirts if it's so dramatic to
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you? so, yeah, i don't care what those people think or say. >> don garcia is a cuban american, former u.s. army captain. >> and one. >> time florida gop state house candidate. he was a member of the miami proud boys when garcia stormed the capitol on january 6th. he live streamed himself entering the building, insulting police officers and calling for nancy pelosi. >> nancy. >> come out and play. >> garcia was one of the first people in florida to be arrested for crimes related to january 6th. and in december 2024, garcia had been sentenced to a year in prison for interfering with law enforcement during a civil disorder. the last time you and i talked, you. >> said, i. >> regret going that day, and you said, if i could have, i would have never gone to washington, dc. >> yeah. no. did you mean that? no, i didn't mean it. you didn't mean it? absolutely not. i'll go again, 100%. you would? yes. >> there's a proud boys flag right in this room. the last time you and i talked, you said that you were disassociating yourself from the proud boys.
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are you joining them again? are you. >> back with them? i never did it. never got off to save for the media and for that. >> so you were lying. >> so basically, the last two years, you. >> and i talked. >> you were lying. i had to, because my own country for association with who i hang out with, what i do or say, was under a microscope. >> so you will join the proud boys again? >> i don't need to join them. i'm already. you're part of it. yes, absolutely. >> garcia had been out on bail since 2021 and had been wearing a court ordered gps ankle monitor. are you still wearing your gps ankle bracelet? >> see, i could pull it up. >> no. it's okay. what do you what do you plan on doing with that? >> cutting it off and taking your shooting range. >> to a shooting range? >> yeah. i would love to shoot it up with everything i got because it's freedom. >> a couple of hours later, donald trump made sure the writers themselves felt safe, including those who violently assaulted police officers. >> so this is january 6th, and. >> these are. >> the. >> hostages. approximately 1500 for a pardon? yes. full pardon. >> garcia was officially
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pardoned three weeks before he was scheduled to go to prison. >> free at last. >> what's the first thing you're going to do right now? >> i'm going to go pick up my friend gilbert. takoba. he's in cullman about a five hour drive. heading out right now. have his book bag, id, phone charger, warm weather. because it's cold up there now and come right back down. >> are the proud boys organizing any actions anytime soon? what's the next. >> step for now? one big party. that's it. that's all we got. and ready to move on. like i said, with our lives and go back to working and doing what we do. >> shortly after this, garcia was on his way to welcome fellow january 6th defendants who had just been released from prison. >> let's go. yeah. >> welcome home. hero's welcome home. let's go. >> two days later, garcia was waiting at the miami airport to welcome his newly pardoned friend, enrique tarrio, the former chairman of the proud boys, who had been serving a 22
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year sentence for seditious conspiracy. like garcia, tarrio no longer wants to be referred to as an ex proud boy. in fact, he's already vowing to seek retribution and vengeance. >> i'm happy that the president is focusing not on retribution and focusing on success, but i will tell you that i'm not going to play by those rules. the people who did this, they need to feel the heat. they need to pay for what they did. >> ramos joins me now. she's an msnbc contributor. she's the author of the important book defectors the rise of the latino far right and what it means for america, which is its own question that we need to address in all of this. wow. as my main journalistic response to all that is wow. but mostly there was a lot of remarkable stuff in there. but when he told you, he lied. gabriel garcia said, i lied. i had to lie because that's the because my life was under a microscope. but i'm not leaving the proud boys. i don't need to come join the proud
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boys. i'm already back. and i go, go back and do it again. referring to january 6th. >> yeah. you know, i, i was surprised at the beginning and i should have not. and shortly after that interview, i was able to talk to enrique dario's mom, and i had a similar question for her, and she said something along the lines of once proud boy, always a proud boy. i mean, i think that that's that's true. two days after we shot this interview, enrique tarrio was having a press conference in miami, and i wasn't as fixated on his words because he was kind of regurgitating the same things. i did nothing wrong. the proud boys did nothing wrong. and but i was fixated on sort of the image of his arrival. right? because he truly is being seen, along with martin garcia, as a hero. so if they felt an inch of remorse because let's remember, even enrique tarrio once said of january 6th that it was a national embarrassment if they ever felt that, which we will never know if they meant that. and that's gone now, and what they feel now is they're emboldened and they're being treated like heroes. and that's the danger. now, what's the next iteration of the proud boys?
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>> well, and tarrio said, i'm not letting it go. i'm not. you know, he even said most of my viewers would not think that donald trump has said that he's not going to get involved in retribution, including with the appointment of kash patel to the fbi. but enrique is saying, i'm not, i am. these people have got to feel the heat, is the words he used. >> exactly. and look, he would say as as he sort of defended himself in that press conference, he would say that he doesn't mean violence, but it's but those words have a meaning for a lot of other people. so enrique tarrio was was brought up in a miami-dade county that has completely shifted to the right. and this is a miami-dade county that saw the rise of enrique tarrio, saw the rise, the very vivid rise of the proud boys, saw the way that a lot of these proud boys were flirting with local politics. and so it is the message that this is sending, not just at a micro level, but at a macro level. in october of 2024, right before the election, at least 1 in 4 trump supporters believe that if donald trump lost the election,
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that he should use force to win the white house, then at least 1 in 10 trump supporters also believed in october 2024 that at times, political violence is necessary. and so again, when you see these images of these pardoned men that are now walking around feeling encouraged, emboldened, treated like heroes, what message is that sending to those trump supporters? >> so you talk about the shift to the right. we've watched this happen, particularly including amongst latinos, particularly in places like miami-dade, where there's got to be a line there between people who maybe came from, whose families came from cuba and don't like communism and that kind of stuff into this, this, this feels completely different. >> it does, of course, like the majority of latinos are not enrique tarrio. and but i do think we have to start recognizing the damage that republicans have done for decades, as they've been exploiting the very real fear that a lot of cuban exiles and venezuelan exiles in miami-dade
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county feel, you know, constantly, constantly sort of casting the democratic party as the communist regime. right? enrique tarrio is someone that believes that gabriel garcia truly believes that the democrats are communists. and so i think the fear is when that exploitation of fear turns into paranoia, when the paranoia turns into violence, and then sort of results. in january 6th, i asked gabriel garcia in 2022 and why he stormed the capitol. one of the many reasons he gave me still sticks with me, right, is because he truly, truly, genuinely believed that joe biden was going to be instilling communism. if you even look at the doj court documents from enrique dario's files and weeks before the insurrection, he was also casting joe biden as the equivalent of the bolshevik revolution. right. and so these are these are paranoias. and that some people believe in are violent and they can be dangerous. >> again. are you surprised at the degree i don't know whether when you come out, come through
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something like this, are there some people who have come out and said, i don't want to be involved in this anymore? that was a bad chapter in my life. i'm moving away. are these two standouts, or do you think a lot of these proud boys who've come out are feeling emboldened, like. >> they are? as a reporter? i can't give you an honest answer because i don't know enough. what i do know is that a lot of the miami chapter proud boys don't feel regrets. and but i think what's interesting is, you know, you hear enrique saying with a lot of confidence that he that he's one more time part of the proud boys. but i wonder if the larger movement of the proud boys, that sort of shield their white supremacy behind, you know, this black cuban son of immigrants? i wonder if you ask them, does enrique tarrio today in trump's america belong in your movement? i wonder what they would say because in november 2020 and i always think about this, kyle chapman, you know, one of the former leaders of the proud boys spoke of enrique and said something along the lines of the west was built by white race and white race
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alone, and we owe nothing to no one else. and so i think it's interesting to see how enrique would actually fall back into that role, and if he would be in sort of accepted in trump's america. >> i think you just gave yourself your next assignment. i always appreciate this. i learned so much every time you and i talk. thank you paula. as always, paula ramos is an msnbc contributor. she's the author of the important book defectors the rise of the latino far right and what it means for america. and of course, that does it for me. thank you for watching. stay right where you are. inside with jen psaki begins right now. >> well, it's been quite a hellscape of a week since trump was inaugurated, starting with the president's decision to pardon violent insurrectionists. michigan governor gretchen whitmer once had her own brush with political violence. she talks about it and a lot more in her new book, and she's coming up first. plus, i'll ask former capitol police officer harry dunn what it's like to see the leader of the oath keepers out of prison and hangi

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