one else. and so i think it's interesting to see how enrique would actually fall back into that role, and if he would be in sort of accepted in trump's america. >> i think you just gave yourself your next assignment. i always appreciate this. i learned so much every time you and i talk. thank you paula. as always, paula ramos is an msnbc contributor. she's the author of the important book defectors the rise of the latino far right and what it means for america. and of course, that does it for me. thank you for watching. stay right where you are. inside with jen psaki begins right now. >> well, it's been quite a hellscape of a week since trump was inaugurated, starting with the president's decision to pardon violent insurrectionists. michigan governor gretchen whitmer once had her own brush with political violence. she talks about it and a lot more in her new book, and she's coming up first. plus, i'll ask former capitol police officer harry dunn what it's like to see the leader of the oath keepers out of prison and hanging out at a

trump rally. also today, former obama ethics czar norm eisen is going to help me break down trump's late night purge of 18 federal watchdogs. and later, as pete hegseth is sworn in as secretary of defense, i'll do a deep dive into all of the red flags that republicans ignored along the way. so i don't think everything should be a five alarm fire. i mean, even in the age of trump, i don't think that. but i also think sometimes we have to spend a little bit of time delving into the most egregious things he does. on monday, he pardoned roughly 1500 people convicted for their actions on january 6th, including 600 who engaged in violence. and he also commuted the sentences of 14 others. so that means all of them, even the most violent of the insurrectionists, are free. it means someone like david dempsey, who prosecutors called

political violence personified, who attacked officers with flagpoles, crutches, pepper spray, broken furniture and his own hands and feet is free. so is daniel rodriguez, who drove a stun gun into the neck of officer michael fanone. so is christopher quaglin, who screamed at, pushed, punched, swatted, slapped and choked police officers. and so is andrew taki, who assaulted officers with bear spray and a metal whip. now, in pardoning these people and hundreds more like them, trump sent a pretty clear message that there are no consequences, that if you commit a crime in his name, no matter how violent, it's not a crime that political violence is. okay. and that's exactly the message some of the worst offenders seem to have received loud and clear. i mean, just listen to former proud boys leader proud boys leader enrique tarrio. >> we went through hell. and i'm going to tell you, it was worth it, because what we stood for

and what those guys stood for was what we've been fighting for and what we saw yesterday on the inauguration stage. now it's our turn. now it's our turn. i'm happy that the president is focusing not on retribution and focusing on success, but i will tell you that i'm not going to play by those rules. the people who did this, they need to feel the heat. >> i'm not going to play by those rules. it's pretty chilling. listen to what oath keepers founder stewart rhodes said in the halls of the capitol, no less. >> i didn't enter the capitol. i didn't strike a police officer. none of my guys did either. we were railroaded. >> for political purposes. >> because. >> of who we were, because of our identity, because we're oath keepers. that's why. >> we were prosecuted for seditious conspiracy. >> we didn't hatch a plan. there was. >> no. >> plot to invade the. >> capitol. >> and we didn't. >> bring any weapons. >> this is. >> just all kabuki. >> theater to justify trying to prevent president trump from being able to run again under. >> the 14th amendment.

>> it's quite a revisionist statement of history there. no remorse, no regrets. instead, it's just revenge and retribution. and listen to what some pardoned january 6th rioters and their families told my colleague alex wagner this week. >> if trump. >> comes out and says, this is an issue that, you know, i need, i need you guys to come out for me. i need you guys to show up for me. it may mean taking to the streets. do you think that the people who just served. you know, years or months or weeks in prison would do that again for him? >> i can't speak for everybody, but i can speak for myself. and the answer to that question would be yes, since he's not going to quit on the american people, i have no absolute right to quit on him. so i would show up. >> do you think. >> now that he's pardoned everybody, he can count on this group of people again? >> oh, absolutely. >> i would. >> die for the man. >> no signs of stopping. which is, of course, chilling. but why would they stop when this was the response to the pardons from far too many republicans in congress? just this week. >> the president's. >> made a decision. >> we move forward. there are better days. >> ahead of us. that's what we're excited about. we're not

looking backwards. we're looking forward. >> what about those. >> who assaulted police officers and then were pardoned by the president? >> i haven't seen i haven't i haven't gone into the detail. >> what are your specific thoughts about president trump's pardon? >> it's his authority. >> and he's using it. >> we're looking forward. >> and beyond. >> we're looking forward to the. >> next four years. >> not the last four. >> pardons for. violent offenders. are you. >> comfortable with that? >> i haven't seen the. >> details. >> but i think a lot. >> of those crimes are definitely. >> well deserved. >> i think the. gift is that. it's all behind us now and we can start talking about. >> this was literally attack on the building they all work in, put them in many of their staff at risk. we just heard there is what i would call obedience in advance. and it is not just happening in congress as you just saw, but also among private sector leaders and also, yes, even in the media. and if you're wondering how any society gets to a place where people don't speak out, where leaders are incentivized to continue suppressing rights and freedom of speech, this is how

politicians refusing to speak out about something that is so completely indefensible, behaving like these actions are completely normal. let's just all move forward. and they're refusing to speak up because they're afraid of donald trump. they're afraid for their own political futures. but this shouldn't even really be a political question at all. it's actually a moral question. it's about the very real, very scary prospect of political violence in the future, about the fear and the threat about what comes next, which even lindsey graham acknowledged this morning. >> i fear that you will get more violence parting the people who went into the capitol and beat up a police officer violently, i think was a mistake, because it seems to suggest. >> that's. >> an okay thing to do. >> of course, it suggests it's an okay thing to do. not only are these insurrectionists free, but they are emboldened and they clearly feel empowered. just listen to them. see if the lesson here is you can commit acts of violence in the name of donald trump, and you'll get

away with it, even be celebrated because of it. what's to stop anyone from doing this again in the future? someone who unfortunately knows too much about the impacts of political violence is my next guest, michigan governor gretchen whitmer. she was the target of a kidnaping plot back in 2020, during the height of the covid 19 pandemic, and she described what that was like in her new book, targeted for young adults, true, gretch. here's what she said. quote, i genuinely wanted to understand how people had gotten angry enough to actually want to kill me, but for the moment, i needed to focus not on the feelings of those who would harm me, but on my family. she goes on to say, we carried on with our lives, trying not to think about whatever threats might be looming outside our four walls. meanwhile, the plotters were becoming more brazen. in july, the men began training to storm a house and capture people inside. they built a replica, calling it a kill house, and practice taking hostages. that same month, one was recorded saying snatch and grab, man, grab the effing governor. whitmer goes on to say, nearly three years down the

road, there's no doubt that the apparent kidnaping and murder plot changed me. i've always loved meeting people and mingling in big groups, but now when i walk into a party or event, i find myself scanning the room. i look for anything that seems off and take notes where the doors are. it's not that i live in fear, but there's a heightened awareness now that i didn't have before, not just as governor, but as a person, as a mom and as a wife. joining me now is michigan governor gretchen whitmer. a new young adult edition of her book true gretch, which i just read last week. it's so good. it's targeted for kids 14 and older. i will tell you, it comes out on tuesday. i have so much i want to talk to you about the book, so much that struck me that i identified with, i just want to start where i ended there, because there are very few people, fortunately. but unfortunately for you who have been through and experienced the fear of political violence and violence, and you speak about it with such a rawness in your book. and i just wanted to ask you, i mean, with the news this week, do you? i just gave my

take on it. but do you fear this incentivizes some of these people to act again? how do you view it? >> i am concerned that everything that's happening continues to normalize. >> violence against. >> people who are political opponents, people who. disagree with you. you know, when whether the violence is targeted toward me, a. democratic governor, or. >> it is targeted. >> toward nancy pelosi's husband or donald trump himself when he was on the stage in in pennsylvania, we have to call it out. we cannot let this become normal. and so i am concerned about it. and the. book is geared toward talking to young people, because we want to make sure that young people don't see this and live through this and think that this is normal and okay, because it's not. >> that's one of the things i loved about the book. you tell so many good stories. you clearly don't like bullies. i also don't like bullies, and i want to get to that. i want to ask you one more thing, because trump also pardoned eight people accused in federal court in your home state of michigan of blocking access to abortion clinics. you have been one of

the most outspoken governors about protecting women's rights. what's your reaction to that? and what is the message that you want women in your state to hear as they see that news? >> well, not only have i been outspoken, but the people of michigan have been outspoken on this. when we amended our constitution to protect this. right. and so, as governor, my job is to make sure that everyone has access and that people are held accountable. if you try to get in the way of someone else exercising their constitutional rights, you are in the wrong. and so i do think that our efforts to make it easier for women to access everything from contraception to the ability to get an abortion is something that i'll continue to fight for and erect barriers to protect people who do. >> i'm sure many, many people are happy to hear that. and as you said, the people of michigan have spoken. one of the things, as i mentioned, you kind of have lots of tactics for people to approach bullies. that's one of my themes that i took away from your book. one of the things

that you talk about is the threat to withhold resources that you were experiencing, and you had to fight back against to defend the people of michigan. stand up for the people of michigan during the height of covid. we're a week into the trump administration. we're seeing this a bit with funding for wildfires in california. there are going to be crises we deal with that you deal with as governor. do you have any advice for governor newsom or for other governors who are going to have to navigate this? >> oh, my colleagues don't need my advice. but what i will say is this, you know, whether it is dealing with a bully when you're in second grade or in college or in adulthood, these are muscles that, unfortunately, we'll have to use throughout our lives. and so telling young people about things that happened to me, whether it was a nickname that i got when i was in elementary school or one that my dad gave me because i'm so klutzy, and i knocked out my front teeth. and my nickname around the house is gravity. gretchen, it is important to not let someone

else define you, but to own your space, to define yourself. and sometimes the best way to deal with a bully is to take their sword and make it your shield. when i was called that woman from michigan, we leaned into it and people, the etsy community, started making swag with that woman from michigan. and to this day, you can still buy it. but i think it's because we were able to say, okay, someone else isn't going to define me, i'm going to define me. and that's a lesson i hope young people take from this book. and adults of all ages, too. >> one of the issues i know you've been speaking out about, and i know you're thinking about in this regard, is this threat of tariffs. and it sounds sometimes like an obscure issue to people, you know, like a tax. what does it even mean to me? but you've been talking about it in a very clear way in terms of how it would impact people in michigan. what concerns you the most? what might people not understand, and what are you prepared to do about it? >> well, i'll start with this. you know, i am not opposed to

all tariffs per se. they can serve an important purpose treating all of these countries like china, like canada and mexico, could have a real huge negative impact on the michigan economy as well as the us economy. jobs drive up the cost of goods, drive up the cost of energy and housing. and so that's why i'm glad to see the trump administration moving slowly on this front, being hopefully, you know, looking at this like a scalpel as opposed to a sledgehammer, because when you say no to canada, it means you're saying yes to china. and i know that's not what they want to do here, and they don't want to drive up costs for consumers. so we cannot lose sight of the fact that our north american neighbors are crucial to our economy. and while i understand that there needs to be some negotiation on on international agreements, tariffs could have a huge impact that would kill jobs, make things more expensive for consumers, and hurt the michigan and the us economy.

>> you mentioned a couple of the great stories you have in your book. one of the ones that i really loved is about a lesson. i would describe it. i want to hear from you about what to do when you disagree with people, and you tell the story in the book about the republican senate majority leader in michigan saying you were on the crazy spectrum. that is a quote from your book, everyone just watching at home. and instead of getting into a public fight with him, which i think some people would do understand if you did it, you sent him a cake on his birthday. we're showing it there on the screen with a bat on it and the words happy 65th bat day written in frosting. so basically you've dealt with name calling. there's going to be more of that to come. you clearly see a place of humor, but how how have you learned how to navigate people criticizing you publicly, privately? what do you want people to take away from your book on that front? >> well, listen, i'm a governor, and at the end of the day, while i'm capable of throwing a counter punch every time i feel, you know, like i might want to, i don't. i'm not out looking for fights. i'm looking for

collaboration to get things done. and so when a senate majority leader called me names and of course, there were all sorts of problems with that phrase that he used, it was insulting to a variety of people, including me. of course, i didn't want to swing back. i wanted to defuze the situation, because we got to get back to the table and negotiate. and that's part of how i'm looking at this, this second trump term. you know, president trump and i both were elected twice by michiganders within two years apart. both times my oath is to serve the people of michigan. if i can find some common ground, i'm going to do that. first and foremost. it never means we sacrifice our values or we stand down when michigan is on the line. in fact, that's when i got to lean in more. but at this juncture, that's how i see the role that i have. and i think that's important for young people and for, you know, all people. we got to understand when there are opportunities to do good, we got to take them and work with anyone to do that. and when your values are on the line, you've got to stand your

ground and fight for the people that, that you love or the people that you represent. in my role. >> you tell another story in your book. i also loved as just a woman, and anyone could love the story about prepping for a debate. and a debate coach, i'm sure is now mortified. told you to draw a smiley face at the top of your paper. i'm cringing as i'm telling the story, reminding you to smile. i don't know any woman in a public role who has been told some version of smile more, but you did not put a smiley face on the paper. some people know the story. what did you write on the paper and why? >> i wrote s.w. f, s w stands for shark week, and i'm sure everyone can figure out what m f stands for. >> mother. >> something will fill it in. exactly. and you know the lesson that the debate coach was trying to share was the happy warrior always wins the debate, and so do something that will keep you loose and happy and feel in that space. and so i'd gone to a kevin hart comedy show and a man

named niamh lynn, who opened for him, told a story about how in women are nowadays when they're menstruating and how we own it. and it's about shark week. and so you can google all those things and get the whole story. but it's about female empowerment and staying loose and being a happy warrior, because when you show up as a happy warrior, you're going to win every battle. >> governor gretchen whitmer, everybody's got to buy her book for young adults 14 and older. i have a nine year old, so i'm keeping that in mind. thank you so much for joining us. really appreciate it. good luck with the book launch this week. coming up, a late night purge of federal watchdogs raises a big question what does donald trump not want them to see? i have the perfect person to ask. my old friend. former obama ethics czar norm eisen, is standing by and norm eisen, is standing by and he joins me in just ever feel like a spectator in your own life with chronic migraine? 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner.

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that trump 2.0 will be much more ruthless in rooting out really any sort of accountability. i mean, donald trump fired 18 inspectors general across the government in a late night mass purge and included igs from the departments of defense, state, labor and hhs. and like a number of things that happened this week, it's not clear how this is even legal. under the inspector general act passed by congress in 2022. the white house is required to give congress 30 days notice of its intent to fire igs, which obviously did not happen here. when asked about the firings last night on air force one, trump told reporters, quote, well, i did it because it's a very common thing to do. not all of them, like horowitz, were keeping. no, mr. president, it's actually not common at all. and in that answer, trump was referring to michael horowitz, the doj inspector general. you might remember he was appointed by barack obama. he's one of two igs who was spared. and if his name sounds familiar, it's because he was also the ig who cast doubt on the origins of the russia investigation, which trump even acknowledged last night to reporters, saying,

quote, michael horowitz wrote the definitive report on james comey and the fbi. he really got that going. so if you do something for trump, you get to keep your job, i guess. as he told reporters, quote, we'll put people in who would be very good. well, we think we know what that means. joining me now is norm eisen, the former white house chief ethics lawyer under president obama. he's now co-founder of the contrarian, which has come out with a boom. people haven't subscribed. they should. okay, norm, there's a lot i want to ask you about. but first of all, can any president just legally fire inspector generals? what are the confines of the law? >> jan. >> donald trump promised to be a dictator on day one, and he's carried that forward through the entire week, including this midnight firing of the igs. this is a country of laws, not of dictatorial leaders. >> he gave them 30 days. could he just fire them? and more than that. >> he has to give them 30 days, and he has to give congress reasons. so this is of a piece he claims there's no birthright

citizenship for american people. he flouted the constitution here. he's flouting the statute. he's testing and pushing the limits. i agree with him on one thing. yes, it's a common thing to do in a dictatorship, not in the united states of america. >> so we were just talking about this before we started, before we came on air, is that some of them are reportedly going to show up on monday. you're a very good lawyer, an ethics expert. what advice would you give them? >> i would advise them to do exactly that, not just as a lawyer, because their positions are protected by the rule of law by this statute. but in defense of our democracy. nobody should just roll over for donald trump's dictatorial decrees over and over again this week. he flouted the constitution and the laws we have to push back. so the city, the council of the igs, including the letter, was signed by one of those fired.

they sent a letter back to donald trump politely saying these firings are illegal and suggesting they'll show up for work. good for them. >> good. i say good for them too. so we've been talking about this, but i'm very mindful in this age not to talk talk past people, igs, people who have never heard of them. a lot of people watching probably have, but have never heard some of these names. why does it matter that they're there? why is it so alarming that they're fired? >> the law of the united states is to prevent waste, fraud and abuse, and to make government do the things that donald trump claims he wants it to do. effective and efficient governance. we have independent inspectors general. that's what ig stands for. they're in every government agency, and they're there not to be beholden to the president. >> of either party. >> of either party. many of these people fired were trump appointees. they're there to

make sure that the public interest is served. and you're in my tax dollars are actually going to help us. so this is a nakedly illegal action because donald trump doesn't want that oversight. >> no. no kidding. one of the things that i think is concerning is this sort of trend that you've been talking about here, we've already seen in the first week the firing of the of these igs, the lack of having any oversight. it feels sometimes like there aren't protections still in the system. what are the protections still that people can rely on right now? >> well, the courts are a guardrail. and i was very proud at the democracy defenders, my nonpartisan, nonprofit organization, to be part of the coalition that filed those birthright cases across the country. we filed with the aclu, lulac, the hispanic group, and asian american civil rights groups in new hampshire and the one of the groups over on the west coast in washington got an

injunction, donald trump, you can't do these things. then you see that letter from the inspector general saying, hey, you don't have the power to do this. we're going to show up at work anyhow. so the story of this week, other lawsuits were filed at democracy defenders. we filed one against donald trump's organization, the doj's, with elon musk putting a billionaire in charge of government decisions that profoundly impact his businesses. no. so you're seeing this pushback. we don't know which way it'll go. but the story of this week was the story of illegal, unconstitutional acts by donald trump, pushed back by the rule of law and the american people. >> the second part is so important, and we will keep talking about it, hopefully with you more. norm eisen, thank you so much. i always love seeing you. coming up, oath keepers founder stewart rhodes was serving an 18 year sentence sentence for seditious conspiracy until trump commuted his sentence yesterday. he was

seen hanging out at a trump rally in vegas. you can see him right there. former capitol police officer harry dunn protected the capitol on january 6th. he also testified at the oath keepers trial. and he joins oath keepers trial. and he joins me when winter season hits emergen-c supports your immune system with so much more than vitamin c. be ready to fight back with emergen-c and for on-the-go immune support try emergen-c crystals. no water needed. coworker, jeff. >> copier has a great idea. >> i wonder. >> if it's the same. >> idea as yesterday. >> it's a. >> performance issue. really. i know people push your. >> buttons. >> but you still. >> have to deliver. >> anything can change. >> the world. >> of work. adp assist is ai informed by workplace data and designed for the next anything.

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courtroom with the violent criminal you're testifying against sitting just a few feet away from you. and then imagine what it would feel like to get a phone call telling you that the violent criminal you testified against had just been released from prison. well, for police officers who defended the capitol on january 6th, those calls started rolling in this week, former capitol police officer harry dunn told the washington post. the automated messages sounded like this. the defendant you testified against is being released from the department of corrections. so not only did those officers defend the capitol on january 6th, not only did they tell congress and the country about what happened that day, but they also helped put some of those guys away. one of the trials harry dunn testified in was the seditious conspiracy trial for stewart, rhodes and other leaders of the oath keepers. and at one point, the defense in that case actually tried to argue that members of the militia group were trying to help officer dunn. as he was standing guard near nancy pelosi's office on january 6th. but that was obviously a lie. and harry dunn wasn't going to

let it stand. he was a gutsy enough person to testify about it in a courtroom with the criminals he was testifying against, sitting just a few feet from him. they were trying to get past me and i stopped them, dunn said. during the trial. they didn't. i did, thanks to witnesses like harry dunn, stewart rhodes and four other oath keepers would eventually be sentenced for their crimes, sentenced for seditious conspiracy, among other things. and then this week, after those pardons and commutations from donald trump, those automated calls about prisoners being freed started rolling in. and stewart rhodes was seen walking around capitol hill, a free man after that visit. a judge did issue a ruling saying that rhodes and other members of the oath keepers can no longer enter washington, dc or the capitol grounds without the court's permission. but they're still out there. in fact, rhodes himself was spotted at trump's event in las vegas yesterday. right there, standing right on stage behind the president. let me just tell you from planning lots of these events, that was not an accident. so one more time, imagine that you're harry dunn or one of those other

officers, and imagine what that would feel like. joining me now is former capitol police officer harry dunn, who defended the capitol on january 6th. it's great to see you. thanks for having me. i'm sure for everything everybody's been going through out there that for you and others who you served with, it's been decibels harder. and i just want to start by asking you just how you're doing on a personal level. >> you know, as good as can be, i guess all things considered, spirits are crushed, but motivation. >> is high, i guess. >> and just listening. >> to what you were talking. >> about, how these officers felt. >> you know, myself. >> included. so many officers like i'm one of the. >> ones that have. >> gone public. >> it's very few. >> of us, but a lot of officers. >> that i'm friends with who have. >> not been. >> out there publicly. have expressed. >> how they feel, have expressed. >> receiving those calls. >> and what type of gut punch that it is that politics is over overruling policing and just saying that, in fact, blue lives

may not. matter back the blue is just a complete slogan, but it's really unfortunate to see a lot of officers that are taking it. really hard. the ones whose names you'll. never know, whose faces. you'll never see because they just wanted to do their job. and the. >> justice department failed them. >> when you talk to all these officers, we all don't. we all don't know their names and their faces. what are they not getting that they need? are you getting the support you need? are they getting the support they need. >> from each other? from a lot of people in the community? a lot of people across the nation are outraged about what happened. i think it was polling at 80% or against of americans are against this. so a lot of people support, you know, the capitol police. however, the people that i think would need to be supporting us the most are the people that, you know, former officer that we protected members of congress, that mike johnson has been one of trump's

biggest backers about his decision to do this. mike johnson, right now, i don't even know. i don't know where he is, but i guarantee you he has capitol police around him right now. those officers spend more time with their families on the road than with him. i think that he owes it to those officers to at least publicly condemn these pardons. i mean, you can back donald trump all you want, but about doing what's right and supporting the people that attacked the officers that are responsible for protecting you, and that goes with every other republican out there on on capitol hill right now that have been quiet or hesitant to speak out about how outrageous this is. >> i started the show talking a bit about how chilling to me, but you feel this in a much different way. the comments of people like enrico tarrio and stewart rhodes have been where they feel almost emboldened. yeah, you've experienced this on such a personal level, but you and so many others, your law enforcement experts as well, do you worry that they're going to

be incentivized to act again? >> emboldened is the absolute right word to use. on january 6th, they came there because they were emboldened by the president. and we saw what they did because the president told them to. so actually, after this, yeah, they're continued to be emboldened. and listen, i would be naive to say that i'm not worried or concerned. we've seen what they're capable of, however, that christopher wray called them domestic terrorists. a terrorist objective is to make people feel fear and change their life. i can't let these individuals win in the sense that they put fear in me to make me want to stop speaking out and calling out what they did is wrong, because that's what makes them win. and yeah, i'm not naive. you know, i've taken necessary precautions for my personal safety and stuff like that because, you know, i'm not silly like we've seen it, but they're not going to stop me from getting out there and continue to speak out, push back. what they did is wrong. standing up for the officers who

don't want to come out and speak, giving them voices and just let them know i'm not going anywhere. >> we were talking a little bit before we came on air, just about how when we talk about political violence, sometimes it feels obscure, but it really is this fear for people of not trump coming to your house, but just people who feel emboldened by him. people maybe nobody could identify or people stopping you in the street. is that what you fear? people come to your house, people stopping you in the street. is that what officers fear? >> i mean, that's what i look at, paul pelosi, the attack on him, you know, that individual, nobody knew who he was. but that was the rhetoric that donald trump has spewed. and, you know, sure, that's that's what you know, that's what we fear. like i push back on the word fear. but yes, that's the thought that could happen. somebody coming up to you, approaching you and stuff like, but you stand. that's why you when you speak out in these reasons and it's been four years of us doing this, this isn't anything new, but it's been four years. and you have to make sure that what

you're doing is worth it enough for you to keep fighting. and the truth is worth it. democracy is worth it. those officers that i fought with on january 6th are worth it. so you got to weigh, you know, if the good and the bad, and i'll choose standing up every single time. >> i know you're fearless. you being here is courageous. and just speaking out is courageous. i know michael fanone asked for a protective order. do you want a protective order? have you asked for one for yourself? >> i haven't, but again, like i said, i'm not naive. and if it comes to that, sure, i'll take every step necessary to protect myself if it comes to that, i'm again, i'm not naive to think these individuals would do something. and it's in my mind, sure, but i haven't had to take those steps yet. but it's not something that i would rule out. >> harry dunn, thank you for speaking out, for being courageous, for standing up for your fellow officers as well. i really appreciate it. i know so many people do. thank you, thank you. coming up, former fox news host pete hegseth is confirmed

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just three republican senators voted against him lisa murkowski, susan collins and mitch mcconnell, which also meant that vice president jd vance had to cast a tie breaking vote. now, you probably know that pete hegseth has been up to his eyeballs as one way of saying it in scandal, basically, since the day donald trump announced him. first, of course, we learned about a sexual assault allegation from 2017, which he denied. then we got detailed reporting alleging gross financial mismanagement of two veterans organizations, which his lawyer called outlandish. there was also lots of reporting about an alleged drinking problem, which the trump transition team called completely unfounded and false. now, somewhere in the middle there, the new york times reported on an email. his own mother, his own mother once sent to him, accusing him in this email of abusing women for years. texas mother later disavowed her own words. and just this week, we learned about a sworn affidavit given to the senate armed services committee by his former sister in law, in

which she said his behavior caused his second wife to fear for her safety. an attorney for hegseth denied that story, too, telling nbc news that his second wife never alleged any abuse, and the ex-wife herself told nbc there was no physical abuse in my marriage. still in a different time and in a different political universe than the one we're currently surviving in, it's not hard to imagine any one of those allegations sinking the nomination of the person picked to lead the us military. but these are not normal times. i think you've all noticed. and so pete hegseth is now the secretary of defense, and all along, hegseth defenders justified their support for him by saying some version of this. >> we do not determine important government officials based on anonymous sourcing. >> the allegations from various anonymous sources. >> so many anonymous. >> voices out there. >> anonymous, unsubstantiated. >> anonymous sources. >> anonymous accusations. these

anonymous. >> allegations. >> he's being tried by anonymous sources. >> they're very consistent. i will give them that. now, of course, some of these sources behind some of the stories i mentioned were anonymous, but they were also credible and well documented. i mean, we learned about the alleged sexual assault because of a detailed police report. we learned about accusations of being repeatedly drunk on the job at one of those nonprofits because of a whistleblower complaint, which was written by multiple of his colleagues. in 2015, we learned about his alleged drinking problem at fox news from 1010 current and former fox employees. and some of the allegations weren't even anonymous at all. i mean, as i said, we learned about his alleged pattern of abuse toward women because of words literally written by his own mother and because of a sworn affidavit from his former sister in law. and yet, somehow, every step of the way, bombshell after bombshell, do many of those republican senators, all of them who voted to confirm pete

hegseth, needed just a little bit more? it's what they asked for. okay, so why didn't they learn more? why couldn't they learn more if they wanted to? well, those are important questions, too. i mean, maybe they didn't learn more about the woman who accused him of sexual assault because of the $50,000 he paid her as a part of a nondisclosure agreement. and maybe they didn't hear more from her because they actually chose not to. i mean, remember, three sources told the new yorker that republican senators, including joni ernst, who is a veteran and sexual assault survivor herself, turned down and offered to meet with him with her before voting to confirm. hegseth. and nbc news has not confirmed that reporting. they did find that the fbi didn't speak to hegseth accuser, either. and then there's the matter of why republican senators didn't hear more from his ex-wives, which was something senator tim kaine raised during his confirmation hearing. in finalizing. >> divorces from your. first and second wives, were.

>> there nondisclosure. >> agreements in connection with those divorces? >> senator? not that i'm aware of. >> if there were, would. >> you agree. >> to release. >> those first. >> and. >> second wives from any. >> confidentiality agreement? >> senator. >> it's not something i'm aware of, but but if there were, you would. >> agree to. >> release them. >> from. >> a confidentiality. >> senator, that's. >> not my responsibility. >> it's not my responsibility. now, technically, i guess those answers check out court documents dug up by msnbc's lisa rubin, show that his divorce from his second wife, the one i was telling you about earlier, did not include a full nondisclosure agreement. but and this is a very important but that divorce agreement did include a non-disparagement clause, which called for both parties to refrain from engaging in any public discourse disparaging the other party. so, yeah, i mean, that could help explain at least why republican senators and the american people, more importantly, didn't hear more from her. look, as i said, pete hegseth was confirmed, he was sworn in, and

he's now in charge of the most powerful military in the history of the world. and it is my sincere hope. it should be everyone's that he can handle that job. but if he can't, just remember that there was an avalanche of red flags that all but three republican senators overlooked on their way to confirming him. remember all of it. we will. we're going to be it. we will. we're going to be right back. known for creating memories. no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer. fda-approved for 17 types of cancer, including certain early-stage and advanced cancers. one of those cancers is a kind of bladder and urinary tract cancer called advanced urothelial cancer. keytruda may be used with the medicine enfortumab vedotin in adults when your bladder or urinary tract cancer has spread or cannot be removed by surgery. keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. this may be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting,

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even more insulated from dissenting views than ever before. that's why it must have been particularly jarring for him to hear this sermon, as he sat in the front row for the national prayer service on tuesday. >> let me make one final plea. >> mr. president. >> millions have put their trust in you. and as you told the nation yesterday, you have felt the providential hand of a loving god. in the name of our god, i ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now. >> that was bishop mary ann buddy, making an impassioned plea for mercy. the message, of course, was directed squarely at the man who is supposed to serve as president for all americans. the truth is humanity and empathy. everything she expressed that that should be

what we all expect from our country's leaders. it's not a political thing. it's about caring for your fellow neighbors. now, the headlines from trump's first week in office are understandably head spinning, but there were still leaders and groups who had the courage to push back. bishop buddy was one of them, but there were plenty of others who stood up in ways big and small. people like the state attorneys general, who quickly filed suits to stop trump's attempt to attempt to end birthright citizenship and gut the 14th amendment. likewise, good on groups like the aclu for suing the trump administration over their actions that violate civil rights. good on former capitol police officer harry dunn for coming on the show today and speaking out all week against his attackers, even after they were sprung from prison. good on the federal judge in washington, d.c, who is currently battling with trump's justice department to bar oath keepers founder stewart rhodes and his co-defendants from entering washington without the court's permission. good on california congressman brad sherman, who confronted trump to his face this week, pushing back against

proposed conditions on federal aid to california wildfire victims. heck, i mean good on republican senators lisa murkowski, susan collins and mitch mcconnell for standing up against a wholly unqualified nominee for secretary of defense. there's so much going on right now, and it may not feel like there are any guardrails left. but they're there if you look hard enough and we're going to do that and we're going to keep looking. we're back after a very quick break. >> pet owners know the struggle. your best bud can track all sorts of gunk indoors. now there's a simple solution. it's muddy mat. the anti mud mat that keeps your dog's paws clean before they make a mess inside. use muddy mat under your pet's food dish in the bathroom. even catch spills in the kitchen. call or go online to order your muddy mat right away through this introductory offer. order two and get one free for only 1995 each.

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>> okay, before we go, i'm going to ask you to take out your phone and open the camera app. it's very easy because there's a qr code i'm going to ask you to scan. it is for a very exciting thing, i promise. ready? okay, there it is. with the election for dnc leadership just days away, you can join me, symone sanders townsend, jonathan capehart, and luke russert for a virtual forum hosted at georgetown university to hear directly from the candidates for dnc chair and vice chair. the event is going to stream live from georgetown university on thursday, january 30th, starting at 3 p.m. eastern. i'm really looking forward to this. lots to ask them about and we hope to see you all there of course too. that does it for me today. we're going to be back here tomorrow night at 8 p.m. eastern with lots to talk about right now. stay right where you are because there's much more news coming up on msnbc.